Kind: captions
Language: en
what's your opinion
on my bird here Mr parrot it's maau
Scarlet maau what it is a Scarlet Macau
oh you know Birds yeah and that's
actually not life-sized are you saying
he's not real I'm saying it's not to
scale okay but he's real are we doing
that Monty Python
sketch everything is a Monty Python I
don't think Monty Python's funny and at
all like not explains so much does it
what does it explain what do you think
is
funny you're not answering that question
is pretty funny well yeah what what do
you think is funny having a meta shrimp
no you think Bigos is funny oh God
no this is getting worse and
worse the following is a conversation
with Michael malice Anarchist and author
of dear reader the new WR the anarchist
handbook the white pill
and he is the host of the podcast you're
welcome this is a Thanksgiving special
of the pirate and oceangoing variety so
once again let me say thank you for
listening today and for being part of
this wild Journey with me this is Alex
Freedman podcast to support it please
check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Michael
malice
the Box yeah the Myst I'm wondering
what's in it there's something in that
box of exquisite beauty both literally
and in what it symbolizes and why it is
here given the kind of human being you
are I'm terrified at what you find
beautiful that's a good point you kind
of hit me with the curveball yeah like
for me the most beautiful like Wildlife
mhm are what I call uh God's mistakes
yeah because my friend came up with that
term where she's like you know God made
these disgusting animals just threw in
the bottom of the ocean he's like no
one's ever going to see this yeah you uh
you commented on Twitter about some
creature like a rainbow type creature
the peacock mantis shrimp yeah it's
beautiful it's horrific though so it has
I think eight legs six arms two punching
claws or spearing claws depending on the
genus uh two eyes two antenna two ear
flaps I don't know what they do um and
its punch can be as strong as a bullet
and the other type with the spears
divers call them thumb Splitters because
if you stick your finger near it it'll
cut your thumb down to the bone so I had
one as a pet all night I would hear
banging on the PVC pipe and I got to
tell you they have the best eyesight of
any animal cuz they see in like seven
different ways and when you make eye
contact with this thing it's it's just
absolutely terrifying but you e them a
sushi they call them C centipedes but
they're colorful and beautiful that
species is yeah what was it like having
one as a
pet and why did you do it well when you
have an species that's that unique and
that much of an outlier you know growing
up reading these books watching these
shows I found this stuff so much more
fascinating than like space and which is
you know dead um so to be able to have
this specimen in your house and just
observe Its Behavior Uh is just just
like an amazing thing why'd you get rid
of it I didn't have I guess the right
minerals in the mix because it had a
problem molting ones yeah they couldn't
mol correctly wow you miss it think
about it still I do think about it to be
honest I still have a pair of its uh
punching um appendages from when it
moled what pet animal in your life do
you miss the
most that has been in your
life that you think about I've never had
cats or dogs growing up or anything like
that which you know I oh
God my problem is here we go if I like
something I will go down a rabbit hole
Yeah so I know if I got one tattoo I
already know my first five are going to
be okay so I can't do it because then
once I get those five it's going to be a
100 and I'm already too old to be the
tattoo guy what would be the first
tattoo um my face
um would it go on your ass cheeks or
where would you put them if it was my
face if I got your face it would
definitely be on my arm right here if
you had multiple faces would you put
like I think delts right shoulders
different faces and different shoulders
symmetry yeah yeah would you get a
dictator if you if you had to get a
dictator who would you get we have the
Kim jel right H because I wrote the book
on him oh it's like plugging your book I
don't plugging it's just like I have a
personal connection to opener
conversation people would be asking why
him and you'd be like well I wrote a
book about it i' be like okay okay here
here's that would be a bad no that's not
what happens okay here's the thing what
happens when you write a book about
North hey nice to meet you what is it
you do I'm an author what kind of books
do you write well my last book was on
North Korea 90% of the time 90 they will
then start telling me everything they
know about North Korea and it's like I
don't need this isn't a quiz and it's a
very poorly understood country I don't
expect you to know anything you're not
on the spot and and half of what you're
saying is not accurate either it's fine
how often did they bring up Dennis
Rodman uh 100% 100% of the time oh so do
you know Dennis Rodman yeah but I don't
understand what I guess people feel the
need to like all right like now we're
talking about this subject I just got to
you know drop whatever I can talk about
it's usually a small amount and there's
this thing in the culture which I hate
that everyone have to have an opinion on
everything and it's like it's okay to be
like yeah I don't know anything about
that tell me more you know there's lots
of things I don't know anything about
what's your opinion
on my bird here Mr parrot it's maah
Scarlet maau what it is a Scarlet MAA oh
you know Birds yeah and that's actually
not life-sized are you saying he's not
real I'm saying it's not to scale okay
but he's real are we doing that Monty
Python
sketch everything is a Monty Python
sketch I don't think Monday Python's
funny and at all like not that explains
so much does it what does it explain
what do you think is
funny you're not answering that question
is pretty funny yeah what what do you
think is funny having a meta shrimp no
that you think bigoski is funny oh God
no although this is getting worse and
worse to be fair yep I only tried to
watch big Labowski after it's been part
of the culture for many years right to
the point where every single line has
been quoted incessantly by the most
annoying frat Bros ever yeah so I kind
of have been poisoned to be able to
appreciate it right so maybe if I'd seen
it when it came out before it became a
thing I would have enjoyed it I couldn't
get through it like I couldn't get
through 20 minutes is that how you feel
about Schindler's
List well it's so much easier for me to
stare at you when you have sunglasses on
I didn't think you'd be the one making
Holocaust jokes today and yet here we
are and cut scene I actually have like
no trouble making eye contact with you
when you're wearing Shades yes cuz
you're a robot two two copies of myself
yeah oh you seeing yourself in them mhm
okay cool yeah I'm having a conversation
with myself it's not your fault
Lex they made you like this you were
just a good little robot in in St
Petersburg I could see Mr parrot a
little bit too well what do you find
funny come on let's this is an
interesting subject well I find Mighty
python I find absurdity funny yes I find
absurdity funny I I think that's the
thing when people come at me and maybe
this is an Eastern European thing yeah
when they're like how can you find this
like very dark Subject funny it's like
well the humor first of all the humor is
that
you're making fun of something that's
dark so already it's absurd like it's
completely inappropriate second just
psychologically you know Joan Rivers
said that Winston sherel said I don't
know if it's true that when you make
people laugh you're giving them a
livication mhm and I was just thinking
about this the other day how when I die
if I want my funeral to be a roast yeah
it doesn't help me that everyone's sad
if I brought people happiness or joy in
life whatever I want to keep doing that
in death your sadness doesn't help me I
know you can't help it but tell stories
how I made you laugh make fun of me make
me the punching bag even literally take
me out of that coffin and beat the I
don't make me a piñata I don't care so I
I think and it it's it's I don't
understand well I do understand but it's
sad for me when people are like you know
this isn't funny that isn't funny I the
way I look at humor is the way it's like
a chef right it's pretty easy to make
bacon taste good but some of these
really obscure ingredients to make it
palatable that's takes skill so if
you're dealing with a subject that is
very emotional or intense and you can
make people
laugh then that takes skill and that's
the relief for them
yeah it's all about timing yeah
yeah what's the different you want to
hear one of my jokes uh is it a pirate
joke because that's the only that's the
only kind I accept today but now go
ahead it doesn't have to be a pirate
joke this one time do you know who Leah
Thomas is yeah what's the difference
between Leah Thomas and Hitler what Leah
Thomas knows how to finish a
race very nice very nice did I just get
the gold medal good job uh why does it
take uh Pirates forever to get through
the
alphabet why because they spent years at
C Oh I thought it was GNA be R joke
that's a good one I like that yeah when
I was in North Korea one oh you know
Dennis robman it's a call back by the
way the thing that is very heartbreaking
about the North Korean situation is that
they have great sense of humor
uh it would be a lot easier if these
were like robots or drones they have big
personalities big sens of humor and that
made it much harder to leave and
interact with these people because it
it's I mean there's nothing more human
and Universal than than laughter and
laughter is free you saying there's
humor even amongst the people that have
most of their freedoms taken away
especially I mean again we're from you
know the Soviet Union like there's a
anot there's a I mean Russian humor is a
thing because it's there's nothing you
can this if you can't have food or nice
things at least you can have joy and
make each other laugh I think about it
all the time and I think about my guide
all the time it's been what uh 2012 so
it's been 11 years since I've been there
and she's still there and everyone I've
seen is still there they just recently
um electrified the Border uh so you
can't even even the few people who are
escaping can't do it
anymore but that's interesting that they
still have a sense of humor I attributed
to the Soviet Union for having that
because of the uh like really deep
education system like you you got to
read a lot of literature okay and
because of that you get to kind
of learn about the the cruelty the
injustices the absurdity of the world as
long as the writing is not about the
current regime yeah but I think like if
you look at like African-Americans
Jewish Americans gay Americans they are
all disproportionate in terms of
attributing to Comedy it's not because
these groups have some kind of you know
magic to them it's that when you are on
the outside looking in a you're going to
have perspective than the people who are
in the middle of the bell curve but also
when you don't have anything to lose at
the very least you can make each other
laugh and and find happiness that way um
so you know that is something that I
think um is an important thing to
recognize so what do you find funny what
makes you giggle
like in the most joyful of
ways the suffering of others I mean I
there are um YouTube videos of uh of
like fat people falling down and they're
they're really funny there's two kinds
of people in this world those that laugh
at those videos and those that don't no
and those that are in
them uh um my friend Jesse just told me
a great Norm McDonald joke and this is a
good litmus test joke because he says a
certain group of people lose their minds
and a certain group of people just stare
at you and he goes this kind of and so
I'll tell you the joke this is nor
McDonald guy walks into a bar and he
sees someone at the bar who has a big
pumpkin for a head and the guy's like
dude what happened to you he goes H you
never believe this I got one of those
Genie lamps and this Genie he's like
what happened he goes well the first
wish you know I wish for $100 million
he's like yeah you get he goes yeah you
he was in my bank account it was fine he
goes all right well the second wish I
wish to have sex with as many beautiful
women as I wanted he goes did that
happen goes yeah it was amazing he goes
then well well I wish for a giant
pumpkin
head yeah so there's a certain mindset
that will just be staring at the screen
and that is I mean there's so many
levels why that's funny at least to me
and I I just love that kind of well nor
McDonald is like uh just I watch his
videos all time he's he's a guy that
definitely makes me giggle and he's one
of the people that makes me giggle for
reasons I don't quite understand did you
ever see with katop on um Conan O'Brien
no are making fun of katop no he this is
probably the best talk show clip of all
time he's on with Courtney Thorn Smith
she was on Melrose Place and con br's
the host and Courtney's talking about
how she's going to be an upcoming movie
with katop and Cen is like oh what's it
GNA be called and she's like doesn't
have a title yet and Norman goes oh I
know what should be called box office
poison and laughing and she's like no no
no like the working title is chairman of
the board and Conan goes do something
with that smartass and Norman goes yeah
board is spelled b o r e d and they all
just completely lost it there's
something about him with words spoken
out of his mouth with the way he like
turns his head and looks at the camera I
think he is one of those rare
comedians who you really feel like he's
talking you directly yeah he feels like
he's winking at you yeah in the audience
and he's like can you can you believe
I'm doing this like it's it's like he
almost he feels like he's I don't want
to say imposter but like he's more a
member of the audience than he is a
member of the people on the stage yeah
it feels like he's on our side whatever
whatever the hell our means you know
Roseanne got him his first job man
Rosanne you and her have been hanging
out I got it oh my God talk about
Thanksgiving
um when you are talking to Rosanne bar
and making eye contact with this person
it is I I can't even describe it it's
just like holy crap rosean Bar's talking
to me she is I've said this to her face
pathologically funny like it does not
turn off and you're sitting there and
you're like holy crap and when you make
her laugh which is that laugh that's in
the theme song of her show you feel like
okay I did a Mitzvah I did something
good and right in the world that I made
Roseanne Bar laugh um and it's also
really funny because and she's going to
hate this cuz I tell her she's adorable
she doesn't like that she's little you
think of rosean bar as this like force
of nature like a tsunami she's like 53
I'd say like maybe 1:30 like and she's
and she puts on the sunglasses you think
this little old Jewish lady you'd never
know this is one of the most epic
performers of all time she lives near
here now so it's just so much fun
talking to her there was an old
satirical magazine in the I think like
uh early 2000s called hee written by
Jews and she dressed up as Hitler for
one of the photo shoots and she was B
little men in the oven I got I found it
on eBay I wanted her to sign it to
Michael it should have been you yeah but
she signed it to Michael you're one
smart cookie and now it hangs love Mom
Rosen bar and I call her mom and it
hangs over my uh desk cuz have her like
good domestic goddess energy flowing at
me
what what do you find what else so nor
McDonald nor my favorite comedian is we
agree on something my favorite comedian
of all time is Neil
hamburger so Neil hamburger I don't know
if I'm ruining the bit he's a character
uh performed by this guy named Greg
turkington so he comes out in a tuxedo
big eyeglasses holding three glasses of
water coughing into the
mic and I remember I saw him once in um
LA and the girl ahead of me at the table
ahead of me was with her boyfriend this
basic chick pumpkin spice she turns to
him and she goes what is this and I
remember the first time he was on Jimmy
Kimmel and he tells one of his jokes and
he like um uh why does ET like Reese's
Pieces so much well that's what sperm
tastes like on his home planet and like
no one laughs and he goes oh come on
guys I have
cancer and it just cuts to this Marine
in the audience with his arms crossed um
so if you know what he's doing yeah it's
just absolutely amazing he opened for
Tenacious D once in uh somewhere I think
in Ireland or the UK one of those and
they're booing him because his jokes are
often not funny he's like hey where did
my uh whore ex-wife run off to with that
dentist she's shacking up with I don't
know but when I see her in court next
month
Alaska so they're booing and he goes all
right do you guys want me to bring out
Tenacious D they're like yeah do you
want to see your Heroes of mine
Tenacious D yeah come on let me hear do
you want to see Tena St yeah he goes all
right uh if I tell this next joke and
you don't boo me I'll bring out
Tenacious D and it's like uh um I'm
trying to think of one that's not too uh
um s censorship is never good okay he
goes um can we agree that George Bush is
the worst president America's ever had
andone claps he goes which makes it all
the stranger that his son George W Bush
was in fact the best I take it back in
the
self-censorship so two people laugh and
he goes oh that's amazing I guess I'll
do an encore and he did 10 more minutes
it was just just like I love him so much
it's interesting they opened for
Tenacious D Jack Black that's a comedic
Genius of a different kind oh yeah and
he was in one of my favorite movies uh
Jesus's son it's this Little Indie movie
um he did a great turn in that he's
really underrated as an actor he's got a
lot of range like I know they kind of
kind of get types cast as this kind of
one specific type but he's really really
talented but also just like the pure joy
yes he's clearly having
fun okay uh it is Thanksgiving so in the
tradition following tradition what are
you thankful for Michael in this world
do you have a list too no not really
really it's up in here oh I mean but you
have several things you're thankful for
yes okay yes one of the things I my list
comes from the heart I don't have to
write anything down well I don't have
written down okay one of the things that
I'm most thankful for this is a common
answer but I I can back it up is my
family because my nephew Lucas is now
six years
old and he when kids have a sense of
humor it's like just miraculous so he
stole my sister's phone his mom figured
out that Grandma is listed as Mom in the
phone and he calls her up and he's like
Michael's in the hospital he's really
sick he didn't want to tell you and
she's freaking out he goes prank so I I
took him uh denes dza just released a
movie called police state which was
actually really good um highly recommend
it I was surprised how much I liked it
there because he wasn't going
Republicans good Democrats bad it was
just about
authoritarianism and he had a movie
premiere at Mar Lago so I'm like I got
to bring Lucas to maralago so Lucas is
I'm like we're going to the president's
house he's like oh the White House and
I'm like no like a former president goes
oh a Lincoln and I'm like okay kid lodic
like he's he's giving logical answers
this is kind of like AI you have to you
have to program it to it's using logic
correctly you should have told him there
a president that's second to only AB
Lincoln in terms ofs yeah um
he uh went up to all the women in their
ball gown you know evening gowns and he
goes you're so beautiful were you born
as a girl so when you have this
six-year-old asking you this it was
really really
um so that is a great joy to have a
nephew and I have another one Zach who's
coming up uh in age and he's starting to
talk now that is really really fun for
get getting uh to watch them you know
find out about about the world for the
first time and also training them like
that he he want he loves being funny and
having fun you're your as audience in a
in a sense yeah but because you giggle
and I I give he we prank Bros it gives
me a high five my family and this is one
you talk about what I find funny these
are things that actually enrage me when
people and this such a wasp thing don't
just go with the joke or they're like I
don't get it or they don't understand to
just go with it I was in the car with my
sister when she was like 10 12 whatever
she's much younger than me she's like 12
years younger and there's this species
of squid by the way which is asymmetric
one of its eyes is very much bigger than
the other cuz it swims horizontally and
so one's looking up one's looking down
with this more light uh shout out if you
want to learn more about squids go to O
donation.com octonation shout out shout
out to Warren there's a lot of
fascinating stuff octonation on
Instagram yes um I was in the car with
my sister she's like 10 or 12 me as a
pirate I don't I'm sorry for the rude
interruptions I I appreciate that
account especially yeah it's a great
yeah these jokes and thoughts are coming
to me at a like a 10-second delay so I
apologize anyway you were telling about
the don't worry got it all right um so I
told sometimes you need help no just
getting to
you I was uh your skin is showing
it it's getting dark I told my sister I
go when you were born um one of your
eyes was bigger than the other and you
had to have surgery to fix it so she
turn she's like Mom and my mom goes
honey the important thing is that you're
beautiful now that's all it's like
what's the big deal it was just a little
surgery and I say's like all right calls
grandma and Grandma goes uh she goes
Michael said that when I was born one of
the eyes she goes why is he telling you
this now it's not a big deal you were so
the fact that everyone went with this oh
was I was so impressed I was like this
is a quality family in this very
specific regard yeah does your family
have a sense of humor uh yeah yeah yeah
yeah yeah yeah you know Soviet culture
there's like a dark sense of humor very
much there's wit there's uh word play
word play uh yeah yeah especially the
Russian language allows for some
like hilarity to it there's also culture
of like poetry and like um my dad my mom
too but they they remember a lot of
lines from books and poems so there's
just you can do a lot of fasinating
references that add to the humor and the
richness of the of I feel like that's a
very Russian thing like at a party or
maybe at a bar or something I don't know
where you'd meet people these are such
great go out I meant in Russia I meant
these would such good ice breakers right
you go up to someone goes hey did you
hear this one no anecd do and you just
tell him some little story did you say
ice breakers cuz it's cold in
Russia I'm here all night that's you
never leave literally
so I feel like that's a thing yeah and
that's not a thing in
America uh you mean like w witty banter
no meaning you go up to a stranger and
like that's your ice breaker you tell
them this little little joke and since
everyone kind of has the same
sensibilities right away you guys are
chatting I don't think that's a thing
here yeah think here it's more Small
Talk which drives me crazy so what else
do you thankful for well what I what's
something you're thankful for well you
went for family I'm definitely thankful
for family okay yeah how if I may ask
how do they react to you like you're
sitting down with Elon you're sitting
down with Netanyahu you're sitting down
with all these like big with Kanye all
these big names are they expressing that
they're proud of you or is it more like
why haven't you talked to this person
yeah more Michael mes
please The People's Choice yeah yeah
they're they're very proud they've been
very they're very I mean but they get
argumentative when we just they're just
like a
regular human being with whom I'm close
and we just argue about stuff they're
not maybe not enough showed the being
proud of but that that part is just the
nature of our relationship it's also
Soviet parents yeah I don't talk to my
dad that's one the reasons cuz there's
never ever any
um good job and at a certain point it's
like why am I trying
to S SE search for approval from someone
I'm never getting get it for and from
who it wouldn't mean anything at this
point anyway well that's interesting I
mean there's a journey like that for a
lot of people with their father or with
their mother like they're always trying
to find approval right and that's life
for a lot of people yeah that's that's a
really big part of the human condition
is that relationship you have with your
father with your mother I don't know
it's a beautiful thing so it's whether
it's been a rough childhood or beautiful
one all of it that's who you are like
that the relationship especially early
on in your life with your father with
your mother is like extremely formative
yeah so my dad taught me a lot of things
at a young age that I'm very very
grateful for uh he was he's extremely
intelligent very flawed and that's fine
we all are um except for me um and it's
the kind of things that when you learn
things at a right AE and this is one of
the things I like about being older is
that when I'm friends much older when
but much much older when I have friends
who are younger it's very easy for me to
keep them from making the mistakes I did
so at least this is something I'm
getting out of it is that okay I can't
fix these mistakes but it just takes me
30 seconds and I can pull you back from
making the mistake so he taught me a lot
as a kid he really encouraged me very
much to he's a very good sense of humor
and also very bad in some ways um Dad
jokes but also really funny jokes but
also this love of learning uh that I got
that from him and I mean I I have got
literally right now 98 books on my shelf
to read it's just a life that makes me I
remember I had a friend and she ran into
someone she went to high school with and
he stopped on the train and he's like yo
you're not in college you don't need to
read books anymore and I was just like
horrified to hear this yeah yeah boy
don't I know it I mean I mean I I you
laugh but like I I when you got there's
a lot of things I don't understand when
you got heat for like I want to read the
Western Classics to me that that might
have been like the internet at its
absolute worst I I think there's just a
cynical perspective you can take that
they're this is such a simple C ation of
a thing that there must be something
behind it I think the internet for good
and bad is just skeptical like what's
behind this my hero Albert kamu and if
there's one thing I would want to fight
it's cynicism yeah because it's such a
giving up it's such everything sucks
this sucks that suck this sucks most
things suck most standard comedians suck
most movies suck all podcasts suck um
but it doesn't matter Especially Yours
especially mine it's it's watchable
you're welcome he can't even spell it
correctly umh but the stuff that's good
is what
matters the who cares if 90% of movies
are terrible like they're the ones that
change your life the books the people
the The Comedians the shows the music
and even the Terrible Things have good
moments Beautiful Moments some not all
your podcast being an example of not all
I've literally just I keep listening for
something good something good in all
fairness none of my guests have anything
to
offer it's not on me I try yeah well I
wish you'd talk a little less in your
podcast it's a little excessive I only
listen for the underwear
commercials she underwear. comom prob on
malice I think he did this
um I haven't seen you do in a while but
this kind of commentary on on a debate
or um I think it was with Rand like an i
Rand debate or something oh yeah malice
at the movies I watched the video and
and I broke it down that was really
great I wish you did that more I've I
haven't done live streaming in a long
time I it was something I was doing a
lot in New York especially during covid
I feel that um I don't know I'm having I
got so many projects on the
plate uh I'm oh this is something else
I'm thankful for this is something I'm
very very thankful for and I'm I'm going
to announce it here coming out of the CL
finally go
ahead who's the lucky
[Laughter]
guy you're the one in
drag H guns out he makes he makes me
call him sex
Freedman uh you like it so I didn't say
I did all right didn't even imply that
when I in as you probably know
as you know but as many people watching
this also know uh Harvey par car who had
the comic book series American Splendor
was the subject of movie American
Splender he wrote a graphic novel about
me in 2006 called Eon huus which goes
for like $150 on on eBay it's not worth
it just download it and I met
Harvey because I wrote this screenplay
about this band from the 80s called
rubber Rodeo it's a real band and the
keyboardist Gary Lee who passed away
rest in peace Gary introduced me to
Harvey cuz he did the animation for the
movie and the script's been in my desk
for over 20 years and I realized uh
thanks to my buddy Eric jly who has some
huge success with his Comics I Could
Just Produce this as a graphic novel so
I've got an artist we're getting it
together so I'm going to make it happen
finally and it's some of the best
writing I've ever done I'm really proud
of the story it's kind of ironic reading
it now because when you're a writer
obviously you different books you put
different aspects of yourself into them
right and this story is very very dark
because basically they did all the right
things and they went nowhere right and
what I realized was reading it now that
all these fears I had over 20 years ago
about what if I'm not going to make it
what if you know I'm doing all the hard
work and it's still not enough uh now
it's been disproof in because I can at
least pay my rent you feel you like
you've made it so you said you could pay
your rent I feel
that to make it is if you can pay your
if you don't have to have a
boss and you know how I really felt like
I made it this is going to sound like a
joke and it's not uh this is being an
immigrant I own as you know Margaret
Thatcher's bookcases yes so to me as an
immigrant to have her bookcases in my
house I've made it you're right it's not
a joke it's not there's nothing funny
about it at all not
laughing time to get
serious oh nice oh now I'm more
nervous and
aroused uh so what else are you thankful
for so we're both thankful for family
you I mean I'm the fact that I can still
get it up what's that nothing go ahead I
think as an author to be able to write
what you want and have of enough an
audience that it covers your
living that's As Good As It Gets as an
author
almost you don't need to be Stephen King
or some Legend it's like you know
there's lots of standups who aren't like
world famous but they they have
perfectly good living they do their gig
they do what they love I I feel very
very blessed you must be thankful for
your career yeah yeah career-wise but
like uh I think the best part about it
is just meeting making friends with
people I admire okay quite honestly just
friends I you know the people have
gotten to know me I hide from the world
sometimes I hit some low points
especially with this new all the new
experiences and just the people that
have been there for me Haven giving up
on me you know there's days and I'm sure
you've had this also where like I
literally don't speak to someone the
whole day and in certain times of my
life it's really I I remember very
vividly I I was in DC in 97 I was an
intern and that summer uh DC closes down
on the weekends and I remember those
weekends when like I got off the phone
with like the third person I knew there
was no possibility anyone was going to
call and what that felt like and it was
dark and it was bad um so I I remember
that those feelings of loneliness um
like a lot I still feel alone like that
sometimes you don't feel you don't feel
alone um not
anymore what's the what's the reason you
think I
because there's like I have a lot of
people who I care about who care about
me uh I I mean the thing about moving to
Austin is I forgot how lonely New York
got because it was like one after
another I lost everybody and a certain
and then you start losing the places you
go to and then it was just like holy
crap I'm very isolated and here in
Austin there's not as much to do
obviously as in New York but there's a
lot of people here more people are
coming all the time um so if I ever want
to like hang out with someone
you know I've got a long list um and
these are people who I've known for a
very long time people who know me quite
well so I could be myself um my awful
awful awful awful awful self uh and that
is something I don't take lightly now
you moved to Texas is going to suceed
yeah it's just a very uh do you know
what happened with that no I forget the
guy's name and it's probably for the
best Monday on Monday a guy in the Texas
legislature introduces a Bill to have it
on the referendum to have a referendum
for Texas to declare its independence MH
Tuesday I'm on Rogan me and him discuss
it I give it national attention it was
also really funny because a lot of
people like these people have been in
Texas for five minutes BL I go to the
Texas legislature meet with the guy have
a nice
conversation month or two later uh
unanimous I think he gets voted kicked
out of Congress because he got didn't
drunk and was inappropriate with her and
at least it was the girl in this case
but yeah so it's like um that was my
little Texas Independence moment oh it
didn't go anywhere it did not go
anywhere
well but it's still part of the uh
platform the Texas Republican party yeah
it's fascinating that history is
probably ladened with stories like this
of failed revolutionaries we celebrate
the heroes but then there's the losers
like myself yeah
and we're going to mark that one as a
failure and edit it
out and moving on the thankful yeah
friendships right but by the way I want
to say just to you I'm thankful in this
lonely moments for people who write
books I've been listening to audiobooks
a lot and reading a lot I really like
audiobooks actually and just
like I don't know I can just name random
person Siri PLO he's a historian I'm
reading on the wait I read him what he
what he I just he written a book most
recently about the Russia Ukraine war he
wrote another one that I read didn't he
write Empires I think the fall of the
Soviet Union something like that yeah
yeah yeah it was very very good he's
great I used him as a resource for the
white pill he's uh objective while still
having emotion and feeling to it like he
has a bias that's fine but without um a
lot of times when you write a story that
involves Putin people are really
ideological they don't really like they
don't write with the calmness and the
clarity and the rigor of History there's
emotion in it like there's almost a
virtue signaling yeah and he doesn't
have that even though he is Ukrainian
and is very strong opinions on the
matter anyway there's people like that
and he's does an incredible job
researching a recent event uh like he
says uh I was looking at everything
that's been written about the war in
Ukraine and realizing you know the old
church line that historians are the
worst ones to write about current events
except everybody else and so he's like I
I'll might as well just write about this
war and he does an exceptional job
summarizing dayby day the details of
this this war anyway so I'm just
grateful for a guy like
that uh so for me there's I'll name some
historians I love Arthur Herman Victor
Sebastian is is probably my favorite
um David petrusa P i e t r u s Za when
you are a historian and I try to do this
to some degree in the white pill as much
as I could yeah when you
take
data and you make it read like a
novel this so you're learning about who
we are as people what had happened but
also it's entertaining and readable that
to me is like the Acme of writing and I
have so much admiration what does Acme
mean top okay Zenith Zenith okay um this
is what writers do they just come up
with these incredibly sophisticated
words I'm impressed well AC you could
have just said the best of writing Acme
is also the company in Like Bugs Bunny
and Wy coyote it's always Acme St you
know Acme yeah yeah like Acme bombs um
when they are that good it's it's just
it just I it leaves me in awe it's just
Ron chernow is another one who he wrote
The Hamilton B graphy oh
nice well I I have a lot of favorite
historians about the
whole uh time period of World War II
will Shire people that lived during it
especially I really like those accounts
obviously soier nson is he's not a
historian but his accounts are sure
fascinating you actually how how much do
you talk about Soul nson ever not much
right why not I feel like I wanted to
I I there's nothing I could add to
him he did he is the Michael mice of the
previous
Century no he's talented charismatic and
and skilled so he's not the Michael
malice uh yeah I I did not um I feel
like I didn't I I didn't read Gulag
archipelago for the white pill I didn't
I didn't no I feel I got a lot of it
from an Apple bam who's a very
controversial figure her history books
on the Soviet Union I think are superb
but she's also accused of being very
much like a neocon and being a warmonger
in contemporary times oh I see and I
think comparisons between Putin and
Stalin although there is a van diagram I
I think are a bit much because I I think
it's very hard to claim that you know if
Putin conquered Ukraine that there would
be a genocide yeah I don't think I think
that's a very hard argument to make in
these tense times even the comparisons
of what's going on in Israel on either
side comparisons to Holocaust are also
troubling in this way yes and and I also
don't like how that turn you know I got
in trouble there was some literal demon
who works at the Atlantic and as opposed
to a regular demon as opposed to a
figurative demon I didn't know they
employed demons that's they exclusively
employed demons at the Atlantic and he
was giving me crap this a couple years
ago on Twitter because I didn't think
it's appropriate to refer to George
Soros as a holocaust Survivor
and I'm like listen if you want to put
him in the same context as an Frank
knock yourself out but I think that's so
completely
disingenuous and and frankly repulsive
to me morally to equivocate between
figures like that um and also to claim
that anyone who is a billionaire who is
including Elon including Sheldon Aden
there's no shortage of these people if
you want to use your extreme wealth use
to influence politics you have to be up
for criticism and and to protect people
Bill Gates to protecting these people
from criticism just on the basis of
their identity is is derang to me but
also the
Holocaust as a
historical event and the atrocities
within it are just singular in history
and so comparing them what's the utility
right you're just you're just basically
trying to take this brand I'm using that
term you know in a very specific way and
latch like when they say climate denal
no one's denying climate exists so
you're just trying to go off of
Holocaust denial I think it's Shameless
and I think it's it's it's gross and it
cheapens everything because there's deep
important lessons about the Holocaust
yes to me the lessons are
about how extreme it can get and how
fast yeah and how fast that's the one so
you know people ask oh are humans
basically good are they basically evil I
always say they're basically animal
and I think people are most people are
almost fundamentally deranged and that
there's basically this veneer of
civilization and decency and when shit
hits the fan and we see this over and
over they do things that would have been
completely Unthinkable even to
themselves 5 years
ago most people are fundamentally
deranged with a veneer of Civility
there's a show called um I think I
disagree with that what's the show
called I'm having Alzheimer's cuz of the
advanced AG age the skin there's there's
a show called I think you should leave
it's a sketch you should leave okay
sorry it's a sketch comedy show and he
captures these great how's your hair
princess he captures these great
moments of just the like just the very
thin veneer of normaly and just the
craziness that's so frequently lurking
underneath another great example of this
when this is dealing with people who are
literally crazy every you ever seen the
show hoarders so every episode of
Hoarders every there's two usually two
people in every episode but every
episode has the same plot line veneer of
normaly veneer of normaly veneer of
normaly slight expression of concern for
blond arangement and it always follows
that exact
pattern yeah I don't know I think the
deep ocean of the human mind
is is good like there's a longing to be
good to others I have seen literally no
evidence of this and I know everything's
the deep ocean with you people but like
what do you mean you people Pirates oh I
don't see it you you what's that Mr
parrot you an
anti-semite no that's not nice to say in
front of such a large audience you're
embarrassing me Mr parrot Lex you Mr per
you you have he's he's a run-of-the-mill
troll and barely an intellectual that's
not nice to say that's not true we
talked about this you have to see the
good in people you have seen personally
Y how quickly and easily it is for human
beings to form out groups yeah and to
just read others just as I just did a
minute ago with the Atlantic completely
out of the human race and that happens
constantly and very easily humans are
tribal beings so that does not I don't
see how that's compatible with this
essential desire to do good no I I think
it's like in 1984 the two minutes of
hate there is a part of humans that
wants to be tribal yeah and wants to
direct get angry and hateful and then
that hate is easy to direct yes by
especially people as you uh as an
anarchist talk about there people in
power that can direct that anger but I
think if you just look at recent human
history the desire for good the communal
desire for good outweighs that I think
like most of life on Earth right now
people are being good to each other in
in the
most fundamental sense relative to how
nature usually works I okay I think
you're both wrong about people and about
nature so nature is not
inherently violent in the sense like for
example if anyone has an aquarium or if
you look at Wildlife yeah you're going
to have Predator prey but these animals
are going to be coexisting and they're
going to be ignoring each other for the
most part right and as for humans you
know being essentially good I think
humans are essentially not to each other
you said I think they're essentially
civil and amiable but that's not really
being good good I think is a thing that
gets Illustrated when you're challenged
when there's difficult situations I mean
civility is a good starting point and
then when there's a big challenge that
comes people step up on average
I completely agree with you that human
beings are capable of such profound
goodness that it kind of makes
you extremely emotional and I I
certainly think that that's true but I
think that that's more unusual than it
is the norm I see beauty everywhere so
do I but that doesn't mean it's in every
person not in every person but in most
people I think I mean I wish there was a
really good way to measure this my
general sense of the world is just
there's so much incredible both in terms
of economics in terms of Art in terms of
just creation as as a whole that's
happened over the past Century
that it feels like the good is outp
powering the bad you just did the
perfect segue mhm to the
Box what's in the box so is it your
fragile egoo that's my you stole my joke
you stole my joke that was the joke I
made at you before we recorded you stole
my joke no did I I write all your
material you
hack so as you know I have a lot of
beautiful stuff in my house because I
think it's something very important
everyone listening if you accomplish
something that is great some
achievement what I like to do is buy
myself something to remember that moment
cuz sometimes when it's hard you forget
you've done great things in your life
you've had accomplishments doesn't have
to be some amazing Factory it could just
be like my first job or I got a raise or
you know what I
I
anything
so there's this amazing
sculptor named Jake Michael singer
singer who's a
sculptor and I saw a piece of his how's
his singing
voice this this joke's not I hold on I
can go somewhere with this how is this
singing voice do you want me to write
your joke for you yeah what's the
punchline um
hard there it is that's that's what she
said so I followed him on Instagram he
followed me back MH and he's like if I
made he say what's the point of being an
artist if the work I create isn't in the
spaces of people I like and admire he a
big fan of yours you've given him and
our episodes together give him Joy so he
said if I get a SC make Lex a sculpture
will he put on the shelf behind him and
what that reminded me of is when I was a
kid uh you read Batman comics and
there's the Batcave and the Batcave has
all this cool stuff in it I didn't
realize until much later that all of
those things in the Batcave had an
origin story so the giant Penny the
dinosaur there was actually a story
where that came from so if you're fan of
a show you can spot oh this is when this
appeared this is when that appeared this
when that appeared so he made you this
sculpture uh he lives in Turkey um and
it's called chance
murmur and it is I haven't even seen it
yet it is absolutely beautiful all right
this so you want to do a little unboxing
yes okay uh axe
or body
spray all right let that's on
I'm so
excited he lik ins out the
box you know uh that Steven Seagal movie
where there's like a stripper that comes
out of the box is that uh under sieg
he's on a
boat you're not an action film guy
no
one what does the pirate say when he
turns
80 what i
m i
oh oh see that's how I know you don't
like humor I just don't like Pirates
well your mom does do you play any
musical instruments
no neither do you I've seen your guitar
videos
okay here's a big piece of wood for you
that's what it feels like just so you
know oh
wow
oh my
God this traveled across the
world so here's why his work speaks so
much to me so first of all he's
combining so many different
references it's Nike the goddess of
Victory right it's that it looks like an
angel as well um the Italian futurist
Which is my favorite art movement from
the early 20th century they tried to
capture Motion in 2D or 3D form well
Jake thank
you thank you thank you thank you for
creating beautiful things thank you for
caring about somebody like me and
somebody like Michael who really feel
the love that's the other thing when you
have something that matters to you in
your house and you're having a bad day
you can look at it and remember you know
what I mean that Spirit of joy
and I actually have a list here okay I
got a little rant ready you want to hear
my rant yeah let's go one of the things
that drives me
crazy is when people especially
conservatives think that all
Contemporary Art is ugly or abstract or
like literally garbage and there's a lot
of that but so much of the stuff out
there in galleries is not only not crazy
expensive but they're trying to sell
things for people in their house and
these are young artists you know they're
trying to add Beauty I have a list so if
you don't believe me and you think all
Contemporary Art is garbage or terrible
go to the website or any of these places
that I'm going to Rattle off look
through them and you're telling me that
that it's not about creating Beauty and
joy and things in people's lives so I
don't have any relationship with any of
these people these are just some
galleries I follow on Instagram utre
Gallery antler Gallery giant robot 2
binart I don't know how to pronounce I'm
sorry b a b i n a r t spoke Art Gallery
VAR gall in Milwaukee I was there the
pieces were not expensive at all what
kind of art are we talking about
everything mostly paintings mostly
paintings some sculptures too like this
Cory hord is my favorite one in La Night
Gallery vertical Gallery Avant Gallery
Hive Gallery Haven gallery and curio Art
Gallery I'm telling you uh it's not
exorbitant this is not the kind of thing
where you have to go to Museum and be
like this doesn't make sense to me you
look at it right away you're like okay I
know what this is and it's beautiful
it's awesome um and you're supporting
someone who's young and creative trying
to do something and make the world a
better place so I'm a big fan of the
Contemporary Art scene a lot of it is
not great but even the stuff that's not
great is very rarely disgusting or gross
it's just like okay I've seen this
before something like that okay there's
it's like differ between there's like a
standup where like I'll pay money for
the ticket and someone's like who's an
opener it's like I wouldn't pay to see
him perform but he sure still made me
laugh that person is still more more by
far more good than bad so a lot of this
artist and stuff I would own but it's
like okay I get it I like it well as the
analogy goes I I really like going to
open mics actually because like fun it
sounds absurd to say but funny isn't the
only thing that's beautiful about
standup comedy it's the act
the the it's it's going for it it's
trying to be funny it's taking the leap
trying the joke and some of the best
stuff is actually funny but the audience
is like three people two of whom are
drunk and bored and you're still going
for it and that's like that's the human
Spirit right there Roseanne was telling
me how Gilbert godfre would go on it was
like 3 in the morning and it was like
five her and like three other comics in
the audience and like they all were just
dying like he was just killing them
who's your favorite
comedian um Dave Smith who
and cut scene favorite comedian first on
Norman McDonald if you like put a gun to
my head and I had to answer really
quickly that would be him
okay I would also say uh Louis CK oh wow
yeah oh my God but that's almost like a
vanilla answer at this moment in in
history because it's like uh Louis CK is
pretty radioactive he is well yeah he
does it the tough topics sure the best
Mitch hadberg the wit of a good oneliner
was great I guess that's what nor
McDonald was a genius at what about you
there's a I mean we're so fortunate to
be here in Austin because that comedy
Mothership you go there and like people
are just killing it David Lucas is
amazing tyraa Ty rera probably did the
best set I've seen since I've been here
in Austin and I I watched him and I'm
like this guy's even like even bitcher
than I am so I reached out to him um so
he's just terrific
David Lucas is another one A buddy of
mine um you just said it twice I think
um I'm thinking Dave landow excuse me
Dave landow um Joe ma catching up it's
true though it's true it's true it's
true Dave
Lucas you ever been to the comedy
Mothership it's a great it's a great
spot where is that is that in Austin
Austin is that where Willie Nelson is
from I haven't really go ahead I'm oh I
heard a joke about that uh the other
week tell the tell the joke again
what's the only thing worse than giving
head to Willie
Nelson what if he says I'm not Willie
Nelson what's that Mr parrot I know he's
not funny he's better he's he thinks
he's better on Twitter but that's not
nice to say right in front of his
face just think how he
feels the statue's chance murmur is
judging you chance it's called chance
murmur chance M God that's so beautiful
that's gorgeous this is this another
reason I hate cynicism and I talk about
this a lot even just on Etsy there's so
many small not huge companies like
individual Artisans who are creating
great stuff um and just making it happen
and it's really sad for me where people
can't see that or if they're like well
how could I be excited about a sculpture
when blah blah blah the Middle East and
it's just like you can always look for
an excuse not to look for Joy or you
could for an excuse to look for Joy yeah
that's he's incredible I feel the same
way
about only fans I I can't even get that
out of my mouth before laughing at my
own failed joke that's what she said and
it
oh H all right that might be one of the
first that's what she said from a
Michael malice yeah I'm going to count
that I don't know what I'm going to do
with mine cuz I got my own mine's 3 feet
tall just like me your box was much
bigger yeah it was giving me an
inferiority complex I think I'm going to
invade
Russia that's a Napoleon
reference for those in the audience um I
don't know if I'm GNA I think I'm put in
my bedrooms that's the first thing I see
when I wake up put in the bedroom
yeah uh do we get through everything
we're thankful for no I've got lots of
things I'm thankful for what else
friends
family we said books I'm thankful for
career I'm thankful for I am
thankful for and I know people are going
to lose their minds and I can hear them
flipping out already I am thankful for
social
media yeah I'm thank for several reasons
first it is a way for people to make
connections that they couldn't have made
in years past that if you got some weird
hobby you can find that other person's
weird Hobby and you make that connection
it's a great way to stay in touch
permanent Ely for people otherwise you'd
lose touch with you know whatever venue
and it's also a great way to expose uh
corporate depravity when you have these
organizations that are dishonest I think
the community notes thing on Twitter is
the greatest thing ever that's
incredible I wish they would pay the uh
attention to the Michael Mouse account
more
often you shouldn't be encouraging
anyone to pay attention to my Twitter
account yeah it's a dumpster fire and I
and I don't mean Bridget I mean like a
literal Bridget fasy Bridget by is
amazing but
account makes yes uh not here I wish she
did she's ing no I mean in in this where
we're sitting it's a joke Michael is it
yeah but I I'm just really glad about uh
it's another way for people who before
would have felt very alone I know it
makes some people do feel alone but for
other people makes them feel
connected uh there's been a a lot of
talk about anti-Semitism recently yeah
what's what's your sense about this is
there is an an semitism like any other
brand of hate there's a lot of hate out
there no I don't think it's like any
other brand of hate because I don't
think um racists or transphobes or
homophobes or misogynists or xenophobes
argue openly or even not so openly for
the killing of black Americans
transgender people gay people women or
immigrants and it's not only something
that's talked about it's something that
has actually happened and not just the
Holocaust but just centuries of pilgrims
right there's this great book that I
read many years ago called the
satanizm it and I read it and they live
in this this certain specific kind of
anti-Semitism and I again I'm not
talking about people who are against
Israel something I'm talking
specifically about Jew hatred they have
this moral calculus that Jews are the
only people who are capable of good or
evil and Jews are exclusive abolutely
capable of evil and for example if you
look at the George W bush White House
you had W you had chy Kisa rice Colin
Powell Donald Rumsfeld a lot of these
new newon advisers so if there's 10
people in a room and there's one Jewish
person it's his fault and the rest are
Jew
controlled so
again they they only exist as a puppet
of Jews in this kind of worldview and
it's like that to me if there were no
Jews on Earth it is crazy to say that
John Bolton and Liz Cheney and Lindsey
Graham wouldn't be pushing for more war
that makes no sense to me it's like the
you blame the Jews when bad things
happen but when a Jewish person doesn't
some something good it doesn't really
matter or just wait he's he's going to
do something bad well yeah that's true
human beings do good things and then
they do bad things sometimes but it only
counts
when that Jewish person does the bad
thing I wonder what's a way to fight
anti-Semitism and fight hate in general
I think the only or the best way because
I thought a lot about this about how did
gay Americans go from being universally
hated and despised to the point that
many people in the 80s went to their
graves those who had AIDS without even
telling their parents because they were
so scared to now Time Square is just
covered in Pride flags and I think and
this this also works for islamophobia
and some of these other bigotry is what
I call the ambassador program because as
soon as you know someone who is a member
of a certain group it is a lot harder to
be bigoted against them because instead
of this being this out group that's
somewhere out there it's like wait a
minute I work with this guy yeah he's
kind of a jerk and maybe he sees things
a little differently than me but this
guy is not a horrible human being so I
think the only way to fight any form of
bigotry is to be a good example of the
counter to these um whatever archetype
or stereotype is in the
culture KL Marx wrote that religion is
the sigh of the oppressed creature the
heart of a heartless world and the soul
of a soulless condition it is the Opium
of the people as the famous phrase goes
do you think he has a point no I hate
that quote I absolutely hate it I
despise this sort of Reddit internet
atheist activism for the simple reason
that I know many people who in finding
Faith have become objectively better
human beings yeah they start living
consciously they take morality seriously
they try we we all fail to be moral good
people so this sneering that these
midwit these marginally intelligent
people have towards religious people now
lots of religious people use religion to
rationalize their bad behavior or uh you
know sinful or big ego so on so forth
that exists that's true but to say that
it never helps anyone and it's
universally the O see Marx was talking
about a period I mean I'll defend his
quote when his argument was you know the
masses are being starved and oppressed
but they're promised you don't worry
you'll have riches in heaven so you
should kind of like let yourself be
pushed around now and this is kind of
this BS bargain that the people are
being given so that was I think the
point he was making it's not it
certainly doesn't apply uh um nowadays
um I I I've close to the family in the
midwest they're good Christian people I
remember very specifically this guy
shout out to him Sean shered I went to
college with him uh David Lucas um and
have you checked out the comedy
Mothership great great Club is it Austin
um Willie Nelson and I you know I was 17
18 freshman year uh and I was reading
all this criticism of the Bible and I
was like look this is in there look at
this in there and he put his hand on my
shoulder and he says Michael there's
nothing you're going to tell me that's
going to make me lose my faith and that
was a very uh self-aware and profound
something to say as I've gotten older
and I know lots of religious people
there's no part of me that um thinks
they're wrong or they should be mocked
it's like you it also reminds me of when
people sneer at uh addicts in recovery
they're like alcoholism is a disease
it's a choice it's like wait a minute
you don't know what it's like to have
your entire life ruined by drugs or
alcohol and if you have to tell yourself
you know I have this disease and blah
blah blah and that keeps you from
drinking thinking and now you're a moral
upstanding person who's reliable and and
takes responsib for their actions I I I
don't see the harm at all so I I think
this kind of activist atheism is uh
cheap I I don't agree with it whatsoever
and I I do not like that quote at all uh
but otherwise big fan of marks I mean it
it's I I think there's a fan of mine I
forget who it was apologies he had this
great quote he goes the G and this is me
talking he goes the game people play to
to feel smarter than others is
depressing and annoying and I think this
kind of Fedora internet atheism is a
good example because here's the other
thing if you've proven that someone else
is stupid that doesn't mean you're smart
you could both be stupid so congrats you
prove someone else is stupid who cares
yeah and sneering inol forms yes in
general is just
not great that's one of the things I
block out people on social media
instantly you're not going to sneer at
me in my space you could steer me all
you want in your space but I'm not
putting up your crap I don't know you
mys space great social network is that
on uh 6 that six six
Street
aol.com clang clang that's how Lex
comes like a pavo's dog that was the
sound before you get to see spend 10
minutes waiting for an
image of a lady
load one line of a
time uh I recently talked to uh John Mir
shammer I don't know if you know him at
all uh so he has this idea about uh
offensive realism it's a way to analyze
the world international relations and uh
the basic idea and I'll run by you and
see what you
think
is that um States nations want to
survive and they try to do so by
maximizing power military power and he
talks about Anarchy quite a bit in that
one of the underlying assumptions of
this way of viewing the world is that
states are anarchic towards each other
yes that's true and they operate under a
lot of uncertainty States cannot be sure
that other states will not use military
capabilities against them right they
want to survive and they want to use
military power
to uh control the
uncertainty to protect themselves so I I
I disagree in that regard and I I see on
your bookshelf uh I think the world is a
lot closer to Brave New World than it is
to
1984 and I think it is if you look at
let's suppose China's influence in
America right the influence is far more
through soft power than military power
China doesn't threaten America through
you know we're going to kill you it's
more like their infiltration of
universities Tik Tock things of that
nature maybe this would have worked
before the pop culture era but I think
one of the reasons we have this kind of
American hegemony isn't just a function
of American Military I think it's much
more a function of American popular
culture when you're exporting ideas and
culture it makes other people in other
countries feel closer to you and also
feel regard you as as a friend and also
to adopt your value it's a great way to
spread
propaganda it seems to correlate though
right it's interesting it's an
interesting idea what has more power the
viral spread of ideas or
the the power of the military it it
seems that United States is at the top
of the world on both that's true and so
it's hard to disentangle the two let's
look at
Europe American culture is very popular
in Europe in many ways right like the
best music comes out of Sweden Swedish
Indie poop they're singing in English
you know even though so on and so forth
none of this is a function maybe it's a
function of post World War II to some
extent but I don't think it's a function
of American bases there I think it's a
function of we're exporting our music
our TV shows and our
movies yeah it's interesting if the
Battleground will be Brave New World the
Battle of ideas I think it's kly BL I I
I I I'm it's so much cheaper and again
this is on the dark siid of social media
to use influence than it is to use
threats I don't think I think Co is a
good example of this like so much of the
pressure yes there was authoritarianism
but it was the fact that everyone bought
into it rightly or wrongly but the vast
majority of the population was behind
all of these things and that was through
persuasion not CU and because people are
begging for it to come back in many
cases so who's funding you which
intelligence agency wasad wasad wasad
this is how you do great interviewing
see he didn't even expect
that okay what's that Mr
parrot that Mr
parrot you knew it but you didn't have
any documentation did you I think Mr
parrot is threatened by the better Wings
on chance murmur he gets like that when
he's turned on he not threatened you
can't wait until he's all three of us
are alone together it's going to be hell
of a party beaks and feathers everywhere
and
metal yeah this thing is beautiful it's
ridiculous you have you have actually a
lot of really cool stuff at your at your
place so fun what um what's a what's a
cool thing that stands out to you maybe
a recent addition so I went to the
Dallas Museum of Art last year for my
birthday and there was a painting I
liked mhm M and I Googled it and I saw
the auction for that exact painting and
it was like I think three grand which is
not cheap but not something you think
you think in a museum I can never afford
something like this right mhm so when I
was in um I went to Houston with some
friends the side surfs Natalie who made
the cake of you cake um terrify my mom
this it did it yeah h no it's not the
cake that terrified my mom it's you
Michael's cutting it off cutting the
face
off and laughing
maniacally well Natalie's pregnant she's
going to have a daughter named Daisy so
congrats to Natalie but I was in the
museum with them and there was a statue
of tho who's the Egyptian god whose head
is in Ibis it's a bird with long beak
and Thoth is the god of the Moon god of
knowledge and supposedly he invented
writing so I thought you know what I've
always loved ancient Egypt I know a lot
about it and especially the mythology it
be really cool as an aspiring author to
have an ancient Egyptian Thoth statue in
my house
well it turned out that the Egyptians
also killed and mummified ibises and
buried them with scribes and a week
after I went to the museum there was an
auction for an Ibis mummy and I have it
now in my house still in its bandages
overlooking my desk and we all know it's
going to come to life and Peck out my
eyes yeah and write with my blood but
that is one of the recent cool additions
another thing I have which is like in
terms of holy crap I've made it uh I
have an original Patrick Nagel painting
and if people don't know the name he's
like the80s artist he did Durand Duran
cover we never see in nail salons I have
a mail which were're very rare for him
to do um so that's two of my kind of
favorite pieces he only Drew women
predominantly I have one where he drew a
male like as a guy guy in a like a gat
or
something and now I'm looking forward to
so Jake made me a 3-ft tall sculpture
called future murmur which I am ecstatic
to get just remind yourself
H how many fascinating beautiful people
there are out
there and just the Victory and and
Holiness and technology and
speed and how many people have you know
thought so that I could do what I
do yeah that's another thing I'm
grateful for just like the 100 billion
or so people that came before us yeah
and and also the trillions of life forms
that came before that oh god I've gone
down
this this troby Rabbit Hole buying
fossils because as a kid I thought
trilobites were the coolest thing and
I've got like 15 yeah and what's
interesting is when you buy triab
fossils on eBay they are listed as used
because it's got to be new used
according to the programming so it's
used yeah yeah that but just look
thinking about all that
history just all the life forms that
came
before it seems like a really special
thing we have going on Earth here oh
yeah I I think that that's that's very
fair to
say but I also think this kind of is
like live life to the fullest you know
kamu talked about living to the point of
Tears yeah especially on behalf of
people who didn't have that privilege
mhm so you know I dedicated the white
pill to my parents who got me out of the
Soviet Union and all the kids who never
could and it's like when I die I want
everyone else to not only they're
obviously going to be happy but yeah
like I'm not here en enjoy what you you
live for me because I can't have that
privilege
anymore what do you think about kamu as
a writer I don't like his novels at all
oh you don't at all yeah you've talked
shit about the plague to meit I didn't I
I think the book is pointless it's
fascinating cuz all you need to do is
read the synopsis and then you get it
like I don't think his book is that true
for most books no I mean like you could
take I I don't know I just don't agree
at all there I mean it's it's catcher in
their ey there's a lot of books that are
seem trivial I don't think it seems
trivial but I think animal
farm animal farm is a methodical
step-by-step examination of a
transformation from one thing to another
the plague is not that it's a
methodical
examination of what a society is like
under the plague which could symbolize a
lot of things including the plague
directly or Nazi Germany or ideological
movements or it's it's similar to Animal
Farm maybe not as effective in terms of
using this kind of symbology anal Farm
has a narrative and I'm GNA spoil the
whole plague the book The Plague okay
there's a there's a town I believe in
Oman mhm a plague descends people
struggle to deal with it and the plague
vanishes as quickly as it came the
end yeah but there's the victims the the
people that take advantage of it there's
the doctor that amidst the absurdity and
the evil of the plague is fighting to do
good nothing for me does nothing okay
well I can spoil Animal Farm there's
uh pigs there's animals at a
farm and they the humans are abused
using them and then the animals
overthrow the humans but
then the pigs uh become just like the
humans it the lesson kids is that uh
power corrupts no matter whether you
walk on four or on two I thought the
lesson was that pigs are the most
humanlike animals on the farm I thought
the I thought the lesson was that
there's no Sugar cany
Mountain that's
right you've interviewed a lot of people
yeah what have you
learned
about getting to the soul of a person
the soul of an idea from interviewing
just how to do a good interview first
I'm not interviewing just random people
I'm I'm interviewing people who are
accomplished it's not a random group
that's self- selecting for something
different but I think that people um
love to and this is very understandable
love to feel
seen so if you're someone who's done
something even if you're like the best
Gua pig breeder in America to have
someone interested in your work and ask
and listen to what you're saying cuz I
remember every book I've written you
know I have friends and I wouldn't stop
talking about you know the the the the
person I'm writing with or you know the
North Korea and a certain point I'm sure
they're like all right I don't care
about this anymore but like it takes
over your brain you know what I mean so
if you someone who has an interest or a
hobby I'm sure to some extent maybe your
friends or family are sick of talking
about it or you don't want to talk about
with them you want to have that's the
private life where you could just be
yourself
so I try to and this comes from my
co-authoring background when I'm talking
to people to ask questions that they
haven't heard before um there's a
possibility uh that this actor I'm a
huge fan of um is going to be on my show
I don't want to spoil everything and
he's got a very specific role that he's
known for and I know I'm going to I'm
like okay I'm going to I know it's going
to be annoying for you talking about
this one role but my goal is to ask
questions that have you have aren't sick
of asking having been asked porn star or
uh no not a porn
star that joke failed also at it
out what do you know about breeding
guinea pigs you mentioned it I'd love to
hear I I'd love to hear more about it
this is I always use this as an example
I said there's there's you you meet
someone to a party who breeds guinea
pigs right there's two approaches either
you're weird get okay or sit down and
tell me everything yeah and I'm very
much and all the people I like are are
the second group when you meet someone
who's doing something unusual and are
passionate about it and you know are
good at it like that to me is the mother
load yeah that to me uh also is the
thing I enjoy the most it's
like that are passionate about who you
guys hate do you guys hate the hamster
people do you hate the rabbit people
there's got to be someone that you guys
look down on cuz like the marine
aquarium people look down the freshwater
aquarium people yeah a hierarchy yes
there's always going to be a hierarchy
this is where the left anarchists and I
disagree because they think you can have
egalitarianism there's going to be a
hierarchy hierarchies emerge yes there's
no Anarchy in the guinea pig world no
it's just a different kind of Anarchy
somebody's always breeding somebody else
yes and looking down on the others if
someone's the other yeah whether it's
the hamster people the rat people and
everybody's breeding yeah
H by the way are you a an archal
capitalist what kind of what flavor of
anarchist are you I'm an anarchist
without adjectives I like them all the
Black Flag comes in many all right all
right you're quoting your yeah no I
understand you're it was it's a
beautiful line in the book Thank You MH
I think the anarcho capitalists don't
give the left anarchists enough credit
especially for their
courage and I do whatever I can in my
power to talk about people like Emma
Goldman whenever Poss
possible do you still think uh that are
some people better than others is a good
litmus test yes it's worked 100% of the
time and for you the answer is yes I
never answer
oh there's two of
[Laughter]
them what are you getting all Hitchcock
up in
here oh hey
careful I always got your back
uh what little habits in your life make
you
happy now that you're in Austin oh my
God I was prepping for this
interview and I imagined this coming up
MH and I knew that as I explain
this you know how sometimes when someone
tells a story like At first it's amusing
then it's amusing concerned and then
you're like holy shit like like where's
the exit yeah I'm getting nervous
already you should so I'm going to tell
you something I've told only a couple of
people this is my
absolutely off the
charts autistic approach to
shaving oh so I have this
insane system uh you ask about habits
that g me a joy I used to hate shaving I
used to hate it there's something called
wet
shaving so wet shaving is you get the
brush M you get the soap that's in a
canister you Stir It Up you paint your
face and then you shave the thing
is there
are dozens of these shaving soap
companies yeah okay so I tried a couple
of hundred of these soaps cuz you're
testing for
you're testing for what the lather
thickness and also how smooth of a shave
it gives you
y I have it
down I'm not making this up I'm not this
creative I have it down to a cycle of 67
soaps yeah okay so cycle a cycle so 67
yeah when I use up one soap that is a
slot that I will have to try new ones m
and I will try new ones in that slot
until I get one that I like and then
that slot is
filled so right now I have 67 that I use
and I have
86 candidates like in the yeah in the in
the queue do you label them do you
remember like which one is which well
they all have beautiful labels I mean
these are Artisans who are creating
these amazing things so they're I would
encourage everyone to try this hobby
who's a guy it's so much fun I will give
a shout outs to the companies that that
are the best so the best company in my
opinion is company called uh they just
changed the name because you know what
they're originally called I'm not joking
yeah grooming
department and now it's like not a bad
name yeah but it has certain
connotations in discourse so now he
contemporary discourse yes he changed
his name to ion skincare a IO n that's
the the sense of the most sophisticated
the most diverse and the the soap is
just really high quality mhm another
amazing company is Barrister and man and
if I'm going to tell you to try one it's
called cheser Uh he comes out with new
ones every month or so uh a lot of it's
miss a lot of it's hit just great great
quality stuff uh another great company
is chiseled face they make something
called Midnight stag which basically
smells like a garage it's one of my
favorite soaps of all time yeah what
what makes for a good smell for Michael
Mouse I I have 67 answers so some
put into convert some are citrusy some
are industrial some so garage is more
industrial it's smells like a garage
yeah midnight stag it smells like a
garage some are fun because there's
smells that smell like other things for
example there's a scent in my queue
called finding Scotty it smells like
Swedish
Fish um another great company is Phoenix
shaving um and they have one called
Aloha Smackdown smells like Hawaiian
Punch they had one called Ule ham that
they made for me special smells like a
ham they had a Ramen one rock and ramen
um smells like cup of noodles um so
they're great and they every year they
do an advent calendar where you for 12
days you have a little sample of a soap
and a sample of the After Shave nice um
so those are I'm forgetting someone and
I'm feeling angry that I'm doing it but
those are some of the oh and Katie's
bubbles is great they're vegan um out of
New Jersey uh they've got one called a
knee high to a grape it smells like
grape soda um I I think those are the
biggest names off the top of my head
will that list converge down to a small
set eventually or no 67 down to well no
it's down to it's 67 so oh so it's
always keeps right so if there's a slot
then you know what I mean like I'll fill
that you what I'm saying Al so you will
forever have the variety of 67
yes huh you know you know what you know
how sad my brain is when I when you were
telling me this I was like I wonder how
many
soaps are left in Michael mouse's life
like you can Count Your Life by Days by
months by years or by soaps that is
depressing that is dark cuz each each
experience of Shaving is a little
beautiful experience yes it is how many
do you have left in your life right
that's true yeah I got to tell you
there's something else there's a term
called my friend Jackie tell me called
touching pan it's a makeup term so
basically when you use it and you could
see the bottom mhm that's like a big
moment oh it's a great thing yeah it's
like it was kind of fun I'm telling you
like people can scoff it is such a fun
and there's a lot of Us online who are
into this whole Space it's really really
fun when did you first discover this can
I curse yeah fuck you Cole Striker cuz I
was staying at my friend Cole's house in
La yeah fuck you Cole fuck you Cole is
like one of the biggest hipsters I know
he's got the the shirts with the Pearl
snaps and everything and I'm staying at
his house cuz I was doing Rogan and he
goes oh have you heard of this wet
shaving thing and he goes look this
one's pzo that's like the Italian Granda
soap which is also a great one and I
went down this rabbit hole and I'm like
I don't even know how many how much
money I spent on this and it's all
because of him oh but it's like a happy
fuck you like fuck you Cole I love you
Cole fuck you thank you yes that's a
good idea for a tattoo fuck you
Cole uh how did do you have advice on
how to be
happy yes there's a lot of loneliness
and sadness in the world uh here I can
give a very easy piece of advice that
worked a lot for
me instead of telling
yourself that you have these ridiculous
standards tell yourself I can be
better right I don't have to be a a
great writer I could be a better writer
I don't have to be a great podcaster and
that will never happen I could be a
better podcaster I could be a better
person I could be a better uh at the gym
I could be better with my time and when
you regard things in the and especially
if you have metrics that you can go by
you know for I I'll run this many miles
a day things you have control over if
you especially as males when you have
this chart and the data is telling you
you're improving right away it's like
you have this sense of accomplishment so
I think that is a really great way to uh
uh find and if something is not working
in your life let's suppose you don't
have friends right there's the internet
how do people make friends try things
out what's the worst that's going to
happen you're going to blow up in your
face well you're you're you learned
something at least don't be afraid of
making mistakes when I was a kid I was
so scared of having things under control
so like I would never have to get hit in
the face metaphorically and then I
realized and you realized this as well
well everyone who's important gets hit
in the face look at the president
whoever the president is it becomes a
matter of being strong enough that you
could take getting hit in the face so
that is a big important switch in your
thinking yeah there's a Bukowski quote I
wrote
down sometimes you climb out of bed in
the morning and you think I'm not going
to make it but you laugh inside
remembering all the times you felt that
way yeah yeah there's a part of me that
that's like that there's some days where
I feel like this is the worst day my
life and then like shortly after I think
like chuckle at that yes just knowing
the ups and downs of the brain and the
mind and life and all that you ever been
depressed yeah of course I'm more
anxious than depressed I don't really
get depressed I like yeah but I've been
depressed like low points yeah but I
think I I distinguish depression between
low points right like if things are
going bad and you feel bad that makes
sense but I I when I think of depression
I think of someone who feels bad when
things aren't bad like it's a it's by to
me it's like almost by definition
irrational well yeah and there's
different kinds of I like there there's
a exhausted kind of depression where
you're not it's not so much sad is
you're not don't want to do anything you
you're you don't want to live you don't
want to what's the yeah what's the point
what's the point R yeah um and like an
extreme self-critical negativity which
I'm also scared of cuz my brain is
generally very self-critical cuz you're
not taking up magnesium do you take re
or in the mouth you take a rectly okay
but as for as for the Magnesium you
should take it as a pill okay what the
way your mom explained it then is is way
different uh what are you most afraid
of holy crap that's that's I I I'm
trying to think of anything I'm afraid
of you know in
1984 with the I thought like even just
like I I wanted to torture you
hypothetically well you're well mission
accomplished you know what I mean I mean
in terms of I'm scared of increasing
authoritarianism but that's not personal
and that's not that's something that I
don't think is as much of an imminent
concern as like let's say in Canada are
you scared of death
no you think kamu was scared of death no
he just accepted it as it's look I I I
can I honestly feel like if I died
tomorrow I did pretty good with what I
had like I I think I did things that
matter to me I think I moved the needle
on things that matter to me I think I've
been a good uh friend to the people I
care about um I've saved a couple of
lives
so I I I can can I I think it's a very
low bar for someone to be able to go
their grave and say you know I left the
world a better place than I found it I
don't think it's that hard you ever been
betrayed oh God yes of course haven't
you not as often as I would have
predicted yeah the Russian upbringing
like it's like expects everyone to be
like just it's a time bomb before the
betray you have been betrayed of course
yeah
yeah you value
loyalty I do and I also made it a point
to not let that
betrayal color my future interactions
and regard that as the universal or the
norm yeah I think that's very important
me
too and also I feel bad I I I've gotten
Lex enough that I feel bad for the
person who betrayed me because it's just
like they didn't need to do this and at
some point if you betray someone you
know and you know you're not a good
person I believe that
yeah like even if you tell yourself
this's something I had to do you still
know you had to do a bad thing to
someone who didn't deserve it and that's
a really hard pill to swallow in in my
situation I still think good thoughts
and
empathize with with the people that have
done me wrong I don't empathize with
them but I sympathize with
them my English is not good enough to
know the difference empathizing means
you're putting yourself on their shoes
sympathizing means you feel uh bad for
them and wish them
well yeah I wish them well yeah but I
don't put myself like I it's it's very
hard for me to empathize with someone
who betrays someone that they care about
because that is something it's not that
just I think I'm such a great person
it's that I feel guilt very strongly so
if I did that to someone who trusted me
I would really it would fuck up my head
for a long
time yeah but maybe they were in
pain maybe they were desperate maybe
back to to the wall they felt that way
sure that's sympathy thing not really an
empathy thing yeah yeah loyalty is a
fascinating
thing yes I value trust a lot I know you
do especially because you're in such a
public both of us we're you know very
public positions you have to be very
careful who you surround yourself with
it sucks does it well it it sucks
because it's hard to
uh
I usually just trust everybody that's
okay that's
crazy but what's the alternative to be
have a filter well I have a filter in
terms of who I interact with okay but
within the you know I see the good in
people but then you
you in the in the very rare instances
that might turn okay and yeah it just
sucks it breaks my heart yeah I hear you
I completely agree
has your heart ever been broken yes love
yes I'm just so relaxed right now and
happy relaxed and happy good this is
making me really happy it's so again
it's beautiful on like eight different
levels I think that's the deepest thing
I'm thankful for it's just how beautiful
people are and how beautiful the world
is I really and people are going to
laugh and I welcome it that's fine I
really sometimes feel like the guy in
American Beauty looking at the plastic
bag dancing in the wind and he's brought
to tears because of how much beautiful
life is and a lot of people feel they
need to sneer at that scene and and
Ricky Ricky Pitts whatever and I think
he's got it exactly right I think he
does
too well in the end you and I will be
both laughing that's exactly and right
and also seeing Beauty where others
people see garbage and I'd rather be the
person who sees Beauty than the person
who sees
garbage
yep well when I look at you I see
beauty when most people see
garbage and it's really unfair Mr parrot
that you keep saying
that but all jokes aside man I'm really
grateful for your friendship I'm really
grateful for you are as a person thank
you so much for talking today thank you
so much for talking to me throughout all
these years thank you for being who you
are you are
welcome thanks for listening to this
conversation with Michael malice to
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let me leave you with some words from
Andre
guide man cannot discover new oceans
unless he has the courage to lose sight
of the
shore thank you for listening and hope
to see you next
time