Kind: captions
Language: en
there's two people in the back two of
her home girls wearing like shyy masks
I'm like what are we doing where are we
going and she goes we're going to go
film The Riot we're going to Lake Street
and so we drive down there Kmart is
burning Target is burning everything is
on
fire she has the Sony A7 she gives me a
microphone and she's like go talk to
that guy and that was a guy with a
Molotov cocktail in his hand who had
just burned Kmart down and so I go what
should I ask him she goes what's on your
mind so I walk up to him and I'm like
what's on your
mind the following is a conversation
with Andrew callagan host of Channel 5
on YouTube where he does Gonzo style
interviews with fascinating humans at
the edges of society the so-called
vagrants vagabonds runaways Outlaws from
qinon adherence to fish heads to oblock
Residents and much more he created the
documentary that I highly recommend
called this place rules on the unocc
currence that led to the January 6th
Capital
riots this is the Le scamman podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Andrew
Cagan I tried to color match you though
got the black and white going I went to
Walmart before this and got the Wrangler
shirt with the uh Texas Longhorns tea is
that where you shop Walmart generally
yeah I'm a Target man myself there's no
way you get those suits from Target you
so you're saying it's a it's a nice way
to compliment a suit I think you go
Men's Warehouse if not further I think
you would be wrong you go further no the
other direction you got that from Target
not Target I was joking about Target I
like Walmart better it just felt like a
funny thing to say no it was funny the
most expensive thing I own is this watch
and it was G given to me as a gift yeah
when I was on tour I had these $2,700
cardier glasses that I got for a lot of
money
$2,700 uh like sunglasses yeah they were
really embarrassing mhm but I was on
tour so I just felt like I could do
anything as far as fashion choices but
looking looking back at pictures from
myself in that era I'm like God so that
was the symbol of of the fame got to
your head I think so yeah I think Fame
getting to your head if you spend more
than a 100 bucks on sunglasses you've
officially gone off the de you crossed
the line totally and that's where you uh
go back to Walmart to humble yourself I
really love Walmart in fact I moved to
Austin because I was at Walmart and a
lady said that I look handsome in a suit
h and I was like that's it I love this
place she just said it for no reason
whatsoever this older lady just kind of
looked at me and with this like genuine
sweetness just said oh you look handsome
she she's not wrong man thank you that's
part of your whole swag though oh yeah
the suit thing yep anyway uh what was
the first if you remember first recorded
interview you did well like my first
grade teacher Mrs Claudia we had this is
back in the day like I was telling you
we just asked her about her life in
Colombia and stuff like that but I
didn't really get into actual journalism
until my nth grade year I had no idea I
had an interest in it before then I
wanted to be a rapper it's all about
hip-hop and meditation and uh picking
psilocybin mushrooms and public parks
and stuff like that that's what I was
into that's a lot so Si been meditation
rap public parks yeah I was making like
conscious rap music like I was to the
point where I had like four dream
catchers hanging above my bed Alex Gray
painting on the wall tapestry on the SE
just scribbling Rhymes down all the time
so you said somewhere that you sucked at
school okay well let me let's step back
a little bit so I had this amazing
journalism course in ninth grade I went
to an alternative high school and the
teacher was named Calvin Shaw and he was
just like he I I ended up taking his
class all four years and he used to let
me actually leave school like SK I
didn't like going to school so he'd let
me basically go around Seattle and do
different interviews with people as long
as I could come back by the end of the
day and write a story for his class and
he'd Mark me as present so the first
article that I wrote was about the the
Silk Road in the Deep
Web cuz you know yeah as a ninth grader
when I discovered the hidden wiki I
thought that I was like really tapping
into like the the most secret society
Elite level Black Market in the world
and so if you remember they had that
hidden wik link that was like hire a
hitman you know and so I I messaged them
and I was like all right you know I want
to get someone killed at my school like
how much is it going to cost me and I
published my interview with the hidden
wiki Hitman it was probably a fed or
something but who knows and that my
first article was called like inside the
Deep Web a conversation with a Hitman
that's nice yeah I mean you're were
Fearless even then I mean I was hiding
behind a a tour browser so there's not
much fear to be had oh so it was
Anonymous it was Anonymous but I did
publish it under my name so you're right
I could have been could have been in
danger I also saw that he said he took
too many shrooms when you were young and
that led you to have huc Cogen
persisting perception disorder hppd can
you explain what this is well that
condition is classified by persistent
visual snow floaters morphing objects
like I see them right now I see them all
the time this the snow is in the room
the snow is definitely in the room it's
all over you and uh
basically it wasn't that I took too many
shrooms I think that it was I took I
took about an eighth of SII Essence
mushrooms which are the ones that from
the earth instead of cow shit and I took
an eighth of those at my friend Toby's
house and which is a normal amount but I
was in eighth grade so I woke up the
next morning with these extreme you know
Visual distortions and I thought that it
would go away I tried to make it go away
but there was there's really no cure for
hppd it's a lifelong condition so it's
just a matter of dealing with it and
realizing that it is only visual so when
people ask me hey I have hppd how do I
cope with it I say remember that every
other sense that you have what you can
hear what you can taste you know your
feet on the ground you're still on Earth
you're still here well you said it's
only visual mhm and yes it's gratitude
for being alive at all it's great but
you said that this led you into some
dark psychological places like
depersonalization disorder yeah
depersonalization is the feeling that
you are not real but that reality still
exists D realization is the idea that
reality itself is an illusion created by
your mind and that you're the only
person alive and that everything that
your brain is projecting to your visual
cortex is a lie and that you're the only
living human being both a pretty uh
intense hppd creates both of those
things and so when I've talked to people
who have the condition it's really
either or but more than 70% of people
with hppd fall into either category
they're both coping mechanisms for the
like I don't know what really happens I
talked to a researcher once named Dr
Abraham he lives in Upstate New York
he's the leading scientists when it
comes to hppd research he's the only one
who actually seems to care about finding
a cure and the only known treatment
right now is alcohol and benzo diaphin
that's not good right so alcoholism
something that came into my life pretty
early alcohol abuse as a result of that
experience because that helps with the
visual symptoms make some of the static
go away man never tried benzo though so
what so can you explain to me where in
that Spectrum you are like so do you
sometimes have a sense that you're not
real and something else is not real like
the reality is not real yeah I
experience it all the time you know but
like I said my job helps with that
because I get to feel like um you know
when you seek out extremes to a certain
extent and you put yourself on the front
lines of intense events whether it be
politically or socially or just dive
into deep Fringe subcultures you get
this feeling that you're real and being
filmed is also a confirmation if you can
look at the mp4 file that you're in fact
living here on Earth confirming that you
were in it with reality by watching
yourself on video exactly so that is
that basically the engine behind all the
extreme interviews you've done well I
got hppd around the same time that I
began this journalism course in nth
grade so I sort of always Ed journalism
as a therapeutic mechanism to deal with
some of these symptoms especially
depersonalization there's some pretty
good illustrations of what it feels like
kind of feels like you're trapped behind
your eyes or that you're just this like
nebulous Soul that's trapped in a flesh
suit that you're not really a part of
you're sort of puppeteering a flesh and
bone skin suit trapped or just the
ability to step outside of yourself you
feel like your soul is not something
that is connected to your body it's
something living in your head it's
really hard to explain to people who
haven't gone through derealization or
depersonalization but if you go on
support groups they always say like how
do I break free from behind my eyes like
dark stuff like that also you're trapped
I mean there's a higher state of being
through meditation that you can kind of
step outside of yourself but this is not
that unfortunately it was kind of the
meditative path or you know the Eastern
path that I took and kind of Fus that
with psychedelic culture in Seattle that
took me down the Psychedelic use rabbit
hole in the first place so like I'd say
it all started with sadara sadara that's
a good book have you done sh since then
no I don't really do psychedelic drugs
but like a lot of people think that I'm
against them which I'm not just doesn't
work for me if it works for I'm sure
they can be really fun especially I know
there's lots of like therapeutic uses
for acid and ketamine and psilocybin but
I personally abstain from those kind of
anything psychotropic I try to stay away
from drinking a bit well yeah I mean I
didn't drink at all before I had the
hppd stuff and I would have drank later
in life but definitely like 14 15 every
day after school I drink a a 40 oz of
Mickey's it's like a kind of looks like
Old English but the bottle's green and
it has a Hornet on the side of it just
kind of became a ritual just to deal
with the anxiety of of that situation
and it made the the snow go away yeah
alcohol really works to suppress hppd
symptoms so you said you hated classes
in school except that journalism class
okay we need to clear this up because on
my Wikipedia page for some reason for
Andrew Callahan early life it says
Andrew hated every single class except
for one yeah so I've had a bunch of
teachers who were super cool like this
guy Tim my astronomy professor in ninth
grade Miss zetti my creative writing
teacher in sixth grade and this really
cool dude at my college in New Orleans
named Charles Canon who taught me a
class called New Orleans mythology my
three favorite classes besides my
journalism class and they all hit they
all hit me up and they're like hey man
saw you said you hated every class ex
sorry I couldn't be everything that you
wanted me to be yeah and so I just want
to say shout out to all those teachers I
didn't hate every class the point that I
was making is that being forced into the
institution of school so young and
having to take common core classes like
biology
seting frogs history of the Han Dynasty
stuff like that that I didn't want to
learn but I had to learn multiple times
I mean I learned about the dynastic
cycle in ancient China three separate
times at three different schools and I
was like who is writing this curriculum
and why is it so important that I
understand this process yeah the part
that makes School difficult especially
in college is that you have people just
going to school just to get the degree
who don't really know exactly what
they're interested in and they don't
even have time to figure that out
because they're in a bus Business
program or a Communications program with
no specific interest well I think if you
want to do school right take on every
single subject that you're forced into
it's like the David Foster Wallace just
be un Boral by it just really go in as
if uh ancient Chinese dynasties are the
most interesting thing you could
possibly learn and it is somewhat
interesting the Silk Road and the the
great wall and Terracotta soldiers and
stuff but I'm just saying like uh when I
got to college I signed up for
journalism school right and I didn't get
to take a media class until the second
semester and you know I I had to take
everything prior to that and I'd already
spent so much time I just think the
excruciating boredom of schooling left a
bad taste in my mouth but there was
individual classes that I liked a lot
yeah there should be some
choice or maybe a lot of choice even at
the level of high school for what what
kind of classes you pursue yeah for sure
and uh you're also saying so Wikipedia
is not always perfectly right no but
it's just interesting because like I've
said so much in podcast but that's what
they isolated M and I've gotten that
question before which I understand it's
the first thing on my Wikipedia page but
it makes me sound like a super hater
have you ever seen this Instagram page
called depths wik of Wikipedia oh it's
great oh it's so good dude uh you said
you love journalism what did you love
about journalism I mean what hooked you
on a basic level everybody wants media
coverage right Everyone likes to be on
camera and get exposure for whatever
they're doing and so being a journalist
and being a almost like a portal for
exposure for people allows you to be on
the front row of of everything that you
want to to be a part of you get to be in
the front row for history as as it's
unfolding because everyone wants to be
covered so being a journalist gives you
a ticket to everywhere that you want to
go in life and so it allows you to step
into different realities almost and then
go back to yours and it just keeps life
interesting buy the ticket take the ride
Hunter S Thompson is he up there in the
as one of the influences or your
influences I think the early Daily Show
was so good um Sasha Baron Cohen huge
influence I mean that was like the ALG
show especially I think Louis th's
broadcasts on BBC were great um I was
really into Hunter as Thompson too but
not really until College you know I
really like a a particular Hunter S
Thompson book called the great shark
hunt um where he covers the Ruben
Salazar murder by LAPD or LA Sheriff's
Department in in the in boil Heights in
the in the 70s and his his relationship
with his lawyer Oscar aosta and that
whole Saga is great fear and Loa I like
but not as much as his straightforward
reporting cuz there's the Gonzo side of
Hunter where he's like saying he's
taking drugs and seeing shit and there's
the other side of him which is like an
actual reporter interested in telling a
story that's has news value so it's two
different lanes for him there is
something about you that makes people
want to say you're the hunter as
Thompson of this
generation and I don't think they mean
the drugs I think they mean some kind of
non-standard
willingness to explore the extremes of
humanity and like almost a celebration
of the extremes of humanity yeah well
that's a very kind comparison I'll get
there one day maybe I just went to Aspen
on a little Hunter S Thompson Recon trip
to go check out the Woody Creek Tavern
which is the spot that he was like his
bar near his cabin and it was pretty
cool to see unfortunately it's kind of
turned into to not not a dive bar now
but it's a sit down sort of Country
Restaurant but it was cool but I
expected to see a bunch buch of gnarly
Hunter S Thompson
types uh
speed just doing drugs I mean drugs and
alcohol is all part of it somehow yeah
it's all it opens a gateway to a deeper
understanding of humanity but I will say
though like as someone now who doesn't
party like I did when I was younger it's
not as important as I thought it was you
know yeah I'm uh conflicted on this I'm
good friends with a lot of people that
say alcohol is really bad for you and I
believe that too but there's something
that I just as an introvert as a person
who has a lot of anxiety for me alcohol
has opened doors of like just opening
myself up to the world more oh I'm
actually a fan of of alcohol moderate
drinking but I'm saying like my life
before I would say 2019 2018 especially
there was the chaos on camera but then
there was my private life which was like
chaotic partying all the time oh I see
and I I I convinced myself much like
Hunter did that that was the secret
sauce that in the core the spiritual in
my spiritual core that gave me the
creativity but then I cut out a lot of
that stuff and I'm just as creative and
it's interesting that a lot of I think
one of the hardest parts about addiction
is that if you're functioning highly
creative addict of any kind your your
brain and your The Addictive part of
your brain convinces yourself that it's
all part of the Cross purpose and that
it has this like symbiotic you know in
inspirational thing going on but it's
not it's not true it can be but it's
typically not yeah it's not a it's not a
requirement right you can sometimes
Channel you can sometimes leverage all
those things for your creativity but the
creative engine lives outside of that
like have you read that Hunter's um
daily routine in the year up to his
death it was like 15 grapefruits and
eight ball of coke and like just like a
certain amount of shotgun shells for him
to fire into the sky every morning yeah
there's no way and he didn't do anything
creative in those in those final years
yeah but so the creativity goes away and
gradually you just become like a party
animal like Andy Dick a caricature of
yourself yeah I mean that's why life is
interesting you make all kinds of
choices and sometimes you can have uh
create works of Genius in a short amount
of time based on drugs or no drugs
Einstein had that miracle year where he
published several incredible papers in
one year 1905 did he do drugs before
that lots of coke and uh I was like I
believed you for a sec I'm like did
Einstein have blood I don't think he did
how do you think he gets that hair come
on it's true I'm just asking questions
high confidence hair look into it yeah
you know what I mean uh yeah well no
he's a well put together uh sexy young
man the hair came later yeah was Albert
Einstein attractive as a teenager not
teenager was he attractive as a Young
Man uh sexually attractive or I don't I
mean I'm turned on by Einstein at all
ages I don't discriminate but are you
more turned on by the work that he did
or his physical
being uh no sometimes I fantasize what
it would be like to be in the arms of
Einstein I could even get that out yeah
u in the arms of Einstein yeah just just
I want to feel safe it's a good idea for
a
romcom to be a little more serious like
general relativity that space time can
be unified and curved by gravity is an
incredibly wild and difficult idea to
come up with like it's a really really
difficult thing to imagine given how
well uh Newtonian classical mechanics
physics works for predicting how stuff
happens on Earth to think like
like like the
that gravity can can morph space time
both space and time is and it permeates
the entire universe it's a field it's a
really wild idea to come up as one human
on earth to Inuit it that is really
really really difficult and it's really
sad uh to me that he didn't get a Nobel
Prize for that was was there people
saying he was crazy when he was around
or was was he universally recognized
it's like an OG of no I think once the
papers came out he was widely recognized
as as a true genius but before that he
wasn't recognized he had a really
difficult so back up where does a black
hole go like after something gets sucked
into it you mean is it a portal to
another place that kind of thing yeah no
h well we don't we don't know it could
be like it could be uh that the universe
is kind of like swiss cheese full of
black holes there's something called
Hawking radiation where the because of
quantum mechanics the information leaks
out of a black hole so it is possible to
escape a black hole there's a lot of
interesting questions there I hope we
get to the bottom of that and there's a
super massive black hole at the center
of our galaxy which doesn't seem to
scare physicist but it terrifies me oh
yeah for sure astronomy can be
terrifying yeah we're all like uh
orbiting I mean we're not just orbiting
the Sun but the sun is part of the solar
system as part of the Galaxy and it's
all orbiting a gigantic black hole have
you ever spoke to someone who's been to
outer space Jeff BOS he flew his own
rocket wow that's pretty cool astronut
that's been to deep space now well maybe
I've spoken to an alien that just hasn't
admitted it I want to do a a research
paper or like a report about space
Madness you know it's supposed to be
this like torturous feeling that you get
when you look away from Earth and into
the abyss after you've exited Earth's
orbit or whatever um because there
there's one specific psychiatrist who
knows how to deal with space Madness and
I want to figure out how and interview
people with it is this a real thing like
is there a Wikipedia article on it yes
look up space Madness treatment now I
don't trust Wikipedia after what you
told me so I know they think I hate
classes I thought you meant more about
the fact that you're isolated out in the
space that we need social connection and
it's difficult yeah I think it's just a
feeling of extreme insignificance that
you might get sometimes when you look at
the night sky but it's that times a
thousand it's like an existential void
that's created after looking into the
abyss and then realizing how small Earth
is in the the grand scheme you just
start to really have a strange new
perception about the the pointlessness
of existence I don't need to go to space
for that I mean only a handful of people
have been to space but I'm sure they're
all pretty well off so this psychiatrist
has to be like in the multi-millions
well technically we're all in space cuz
Earth is in space but so um I wonder if
you have to go to space to talk to the
psychiatrist yeah probably so well
technically we're all in space so he
can't that's a b he can't have but not
everyone believes that as you've seen
from my my work probably you're right
and that's those are important people
that are asking important questions yeah
um you hitchhiked across us for 70 days
when you were 19 right tell the story of
that well this sort of connects to what
I was talking about with the boredom of
school and these common core classes so
after my first year of school where I
lived in the dorms like a like a old
school dormatory building at a school in
New Orleans called lyola University I
wanted to I wanted to just do something
I felt so bored I was working for the
school newspaper for the for that whole
first year it was called the maroon and
I didn't have the ability to write my
own stories like I had to defer to an
older editor and they would give me
stories to write about and they were all
about like on campus happenings like the
pope visits New Orleans or glass
recycling to be restored in the French
Quarter or hoverboards banned on campus
due to safety concerns and it just kind
of felt like all right I kind of wanted
to be a a Gonzo reporter I'm not sure if
working my way up through the
traditional Newsroom hierarchy is going
to get me to that point so I started
reading a bunch of old hobo literature
you know like post World War II
vagabonding stuff and there was this
book called vagabonding in America by an
old hobo named ed burn and I read this
and it just basically obviously some of
it was outdated they had stuff in there
like the hobo code like oh this moniker
on the side of a fence means this person
has free soup or something like that
they didn't have stuff like that but
what it did tell great it told me about
train stop towns like dunsmir and you
know places in Montana where there was a
friendly attitude toward Drifters and
that still persists from the 60s and 70s
to this day even though in my opinion
movies like Texas Chainsaw Massacre have
ruined hitchhiking culture in America
because now everyone thinks you're going
to you know decapitate them if they pick
you up so after my final day of courses
at lyola I literally left all of my
belongings inside my dorm and took the
street car to the Greyhound station got
a oneway ticket to Baton Rouge and I was
like I'm going to hitchhike across the
whole country back to Seattle with no
money and that that was that was the
plan and it worked out I love it I
traveled across the United States uh
before in similar kind of plan you you
were you on the silver
dog Greyhound Bus Greyhound is pretty
nice that's a step above hitchhiking
yeah that's way better than hitchhiking
Greyhound Amtrak airl Amtrak no that's
the leest uh what's in between Greyhound
and Amtrak a car that's what it is yeah
it's a car yeah a shitty car okay cool
and I lived in a shitty car you lived in
a car yeah when I was uh driving across
United States yeah SOLO uh with a friend
some some solo mhm and I would uh have I
would eat cold
soup I love cold soup what I like is the
cold uh chickpeas in a can you get the
water out and just dump them in your
mouth yeah those are good beef jerk kind
bars kind bars are really good for the
road yeah I mean all of that is great
but too much of it is not great like too
much cold
soup not great too much beef
jerky so what was the route you took was
it Chicago across or was it Philadelphia
across Philadelphia across to LA or
where uh San Diego is where we end up
but it was a zigzag and went up to
Chicago and then all the way down to
Texas so you went Philly through through
Appalachia up to the Midwest y did you
cut over like the Southwest down to San
Diego no no no I went straight down to
Texas all the way down Midwest so like
but did you cut from Texas west through
New Mexico and Arizona to get to San die
that is the best road trip Place
Interstate 40 like Albuquerque Flagstaff
Vegas Kingman the Mojave Desert Yuma
doesn't get better yeah I mean and
you're kid so you don't care and you
throwing caution to the win and I met
some crazy crazy people it gives me some
sanity like whenever I'm feeling kind of
out of control or you you know like
bummed out I just remembered that the
road is still out there the open road
never goes anywhere and it's kind of
like a I see like an invisible door in
the corner of the room all the time that
makes me more comfortable cuz I'm like
hey at the end of the day if I'm bummed
out I can go hit the road and I'm sure
there's going to be a fun time ahead
yeah get that Greyhound ticket and go I
would say silver dog half because
sometimes I got to ride the dog when I'm
when no one will pick me up there's some
places in the country where no one's
going to pick you up yeah Kansas
Missouri they're not going to do maybe
you're not Charming enough you thought
about that I was 19 fresh clean shaven
yeah I was pretty Charming I'd say but
the older you get the harder it is to
hitchhike because they think you're like
an escaped convict or some type of like
Psy psycho Wanderer and some of these
people are like what what we call
punishers it's people who never stop
talking and so they see someone
hitchhiking and they're like yes I'm
going to talk at this person and you can
tell their eyes are wide they're like
what's up then you're like oh shit so
it's 6 hours of just like oh cool nice
yeah that's rough yeah yeah you're right
right you're right I like people that
are comfortable in
silence yeah but then that also raises
the question are they about to kill me
you know what I mean I think that's a
you problem not a you know what's funny
is almost everybody who picked me up
when I was hitchhiking was like a like a
day labor like most it was almost all
Mexican day labers who picked me up oh
interesting cuz I think that like in
some places down there that's a typical
thing to do hitchhike to work a lot of
people don't have cars but they still
have to get to their jobs so a lot of
people ask me hey where should I drop
you off where's your job at and I'm like
my job is to explore and they were they
were done with it see like for me it was
really easy because you just say like
I'm traveling across the United States
and I think people love that idea and
they want to help MH they they romantic
cuz they also have that invisible door
everybody has that invisible door I just
want to go so you know what I'm talking
about yeah I mean I anchor it can anchor
you a bit just to remind you that every
pattern that I've fallen into is
voluntary and it's for my own stability
and mental health well that's why I'm
like renting everything and I'm sure
like tomorrow I can just go I gave away
everything I own twice in my life just
very like I'm ready to go tonight let's
go what's the hardest item you've had to
part with in this experience there's
nothing you've never had a material
object that was really hard to let go of
no so You' give that watch to somebody
if it meant no this you're right you're
right that's probably the only I've
never had to let go of that though
that's the only thing I own this means a
lot to me but everything else but then
again listen cuz uh okay this watch is
given me to me by Rogan um who's become
a close friend but like whenever I
romanticize the notion that this watch
means a lot to me he's like don't worry
about it I'll just get you the same one
again yeah I like God damn it it's a
pretty sick sick ass gift though yeah
it's pretty pretty sick I'm not usually
a gift guy but you know um when when
somebody you you look up to kind of
gives you a thing it's a nice little
symbol of uh yeah of that relationship
so it's nice but other than that no know
but even this like whatever the
relationship is what matters the human
is what matters not the I agree 100% you
had something like this not really I
mean there was a hard drive that I lost
that had all of my like childhood
pictures on it and stuff like that that
I think about all the time because I
left it on a train and like the certain
memories you think about it you just get
pissed off I just think to myself
someone has that somewhere I have dreams
about reuniting with the hard drive you
and uh Hunter Biden have the similar
kind I don't think he wants to reunite
with that one okay dude it's crazy like
you
know all he did was smoke crack right or
was there more stuff going on and I
think there's prostitutes involved oh
okay whatever I think you got to look
into it I think I have to look into it
too I don't
know um was carak Jack kowak and
somebody that that wasn't an inspiration
at all in this road trip did you even
know who that is the be generation I
didn't know who it was and then after I
did the ultimately I wrote a book about
my hit experience years later and
everyone was like have you read on the
road and then on the road I probably
heard the title of that book every day
at least 10 times for two years and um
I'm sure kowak is a great guy I mean I
just don't I'm not too familiar with the
Beat Generation it's a great book it's
uh you read it or no I refuse to read it
people even have gifted it to me being
like hey man you're going to love this
one and I'm like is that on the road if
I honestly people have given me a book
with rapping paper on it and they're
like this is right after rally I was
like that's fucking on the road isn't it
give you a different cover yeah no I'm
like anything but that but I'm sure it's
a great book it's just the comparison
thing drives me
crazy but respect big respect to
carak would never speak down on the
whole anyone in the Beat Generation what
are some interesting moments you
remember from that those 70 days man
there was so much I mean getting
mistaken for a gay prostitute on my
first hitchhiking ride in Louisiana was
pretty funny where did you come from and
where did you go well I mean the the
journey began in Baton Rouge and the
first destination was Houston which is
about 4 and 1 half hours West um on
Interstate 10 so I'm in Crowley
Louisiana I'm on the side of the road
and I guess this was a cruising truck
stop it was known for being a place
where male lot lizards would go to
procure clients and I was there lot
lizards are it's a derogatory term in
trucker culture for a prostitute who
hangs out at the loves or Pilot Flying
Jay
large Interstate Truck Stops now trucker
culture as it once was is pretty much
finished because of the live stream
cameras they have inside of the trucks
now so you can't snort sua fed or pick
up anybody you can't even pick up a
hitchhiker or you get fired killed all
the romance yeah definitely the TR that
the old school Outlaw trucker lifestyle
unless you're an owner operator with
who's not even in a union which is like
a real cowboy way to hul loads you can't
do that you are mistaken for a lot
lizard mistaken for a lot lizard by uh a
small man from Honduras with a spiky
leather jacket covered in studs nice
didn't speak any English but you know I
thought he was just you know a nice guy
and then he pulled over at a there's
private theaters in the South where they
have confessional booths set up and they
have three channels and people go in
there and you know porn yeah people go
in there and you know please themselves
yeah yeah so he thought he was taking me
to one of to one of those I was like all
right cool man yeah like you know if
this guy wants to go jerk off I'm just
gonna wait in the car it's all good I
don't discriminate but then um I was
like he buys a booth for me and I'm like
okay you know nice I'm not really in the
mood to watch porn with this random guy
so he gets in the same booth as me and
he starts jerking off right next to me
and I'm like oh man
like I don't think this is chill I'm
like dude can you stop he stopped
jacking off and he's like what do you
mean like I thought this is what you
want to do like I have money for you
like what's up and I was like oh no I'm
just a regular guy he was super cool
about it he started laughing he was like
oh my bad man I thought you were you
know selling something I said no and he
said oh it's all good and he gave me a
ride all the way to Houston that's great
yeah we talked about anything except
that for the rest of the car ride that's
great it was just rolled with it oh
sorry about that it could I mean I had
about a foot and a half on this guy so I
wasn't too scared I also had like a
knife in my pocket but I didn't want to
stab him especially not at a place like
that and you were still that that didn't
like leave a bad taste your mouth well I
figured that can't happen again it can't
keep happening so I was like all right
if I got this out of the way the first
ride the following rides are going to be
spectacular yeah I
mean who Among Us have not been mistaken
for a lot lizard it's a fact you heard
it here first what else what what some
interesting
beautiful people that you've met well I
use the app uh couch surfing to find
places to stay now you can only submit
like five couch surfing requests a day
unless you're a premium member which
means you also host People couch surfing
is still around yeah yeah totally oh
nice but it's evolved obviously into a
different thing Airbnb is a kind of
competitor to that right couch surfing
is free though right so couch surfing
they call it like the Cs community so
basically there'd be these like couch
surfing super hosts in different cities
like there was one in Santa Fe this
firefighter dude who had like 15 other
couch Surfers there chilling nice um so
I would do it everywhere A lot of them
were um
Catholics you know so it was their way
of giving back a lot of them were
nudists and so I didn't realize that
there's a small little section at the
bottom of someone's couch surfing
profile that says clothing optional yes
and that means if you go there I thought
it meant like it's cool if you walk to
the bathroom in your underwear no if you
go there everyone's going to be butt
naked so I I made that mistake a few
times not that I'm anti- nudist but I
didn't want to you know I wasn't ready
to take that leap of faith and uh yeah
it was just great couch Roofing hosts
were amazing yeah that was just great it
was this constant thing where I felt
like wow people are so welcoming I'm not
having to pay them a dollar for this
experience yeah I love couch surfing for
like again for me being an introvert
just crashing on a person's couch being
essentially forced into a great
conversation is great yeah the one thing
that gets exhausting about hitchhiking
is constantly thanking people you know
being in like sort of constant
superficial gratitude everywhere all the
time like oh thanks for letting me sleep
on your couch thanks for the food yeah
part of the reason I wanted to live in
an art later in life is to avoid having
to constantly live in this like thanks
so much type of frequency cuz it's
exhausting to constantly hey man thanks
I think the shallowness of that
interaction is exhausting not just the
not not the thanks yeah if it was a true
favor of course I I love giving people
gratitude for that but just this thing
where everyone who picks you up is you
know you get you get eight rides a day
you're like thanking eight people a day
like they're you know the second coming
of Jesus you start to feel a little bit
debased what did you learn about people
from that from that Journey that's your
first time really kind of going into it
that the American public is just so kind
overall I mean they're so like embracing
depending on who you are and
specifically though the Christian family
people of the US who drive in minivans
and have that that Fish sticker on the
back where it's like Jesus fish and then
they have the family sticker you know
where each member of the family is a Act
is stick
figure those people never picked me up
and would flip me off with their whole
family sometimes they would throw full
Dr Peppers at me as a family while I
stood on the side of the r as a family
together they yell shit like go to hell
hippie when I was on the side of the
road and so it's weird that the
most charitable Christian American
Family Values people never gave me any
charity or even conversation they were
antagonizing me and saw me as like a
hippie left over from the 60s who needed
to go to work go to Vietnam I don't get
it yeah but uh the people who really
extended a hand to me is people on the
margins yeah people working on seasonal
visas people whose cars have you know
less than a quarter tank left people
struggling with addiction who saw me
struggling or at least they thought that
I was because they assumed I was
hitchhiking not out of Adventure but
because I had no car and were willing to
get sacrifice their day almost sometimes
to take me exactly where I needed to go
that's beautiful man I've had similar
kind of experience that people who are
struggling the most are the ones who are
to help you when you're struggling yeah
there's there's people like in religious
context and other kind of communities
that just judge
others because they've kind of
constructed a value system where they're
better than others because of that value
system and that that actually has
a Cascade that forces you to actually be
kind of a dick yeah I never thought
about that way it's so true do you think
about like morality and religion a lot
yeah yeah yeah I've been to certain
parts of the world world where religion
is really a big part of
life I'm just
uh always skeptical
about tribes of people that believe a
thing and believe they're better than
others because they believe that thing
that could be Nations that could be
religions yeah and I I mean in Ukraine
and in Russia I've seen a lot of hate
towards the other yeah and that that
hate I'm always very skeptical of
because it could be used by powerful
people to direct that
hate uh just so the powerful people can
maintain power and get money this kind
of stuff it's a scary thing to see how
easy it is for high up political people
to mobilize the hate of just the average
working person and can almost convince
them to sabotage their own countrymen
who they share more in common with than
the politician they look up to just to
advance the agenda of one party that's
what we're seeing now are there some
places in America that are better than
others can you can you speak negatively
M of um like uh aforementioned Joe Rogan
talk shit about Connecticut nonstop is
there can you pick a region in the
United States you can talk shit about to
talk shit about oh for sure I
mean from that experience let's just
narrow it down to that oh Colorado oh
Jesus really yes I know so many people
that love Colorado dude Dallas Denver um
I used to think Phoenix sucks but I love
Phoenix now the way they build these
cities to just be so circular and
massive it's just like stop it you don't
like circles I like grids man
oh you're a grid guy Manhattan New
Orleans San Francisco what is it about
grids that bring out the worst in
people circles is where every just
there's a everyone's just vibing outy
Goosey but the grid gets people locked
in hateful I don't know man but I've
never heard anyone talk shit about
Colorado I have to say it's kind of
refreshing it provides a necessary
balance for the Colorado Wikipedia page
yeah oh Oregon too I got problems with
Oregon Oregon yeah well here's the issue
you have and I don't like just calling
people racist cuz it's kind of like a
two-dimensional insult but you have the
most racist state with the most
psychotic Anarchist City in the middle
of it what is going on up there how did
this happen the the yin and the Yang is
so extreme that there must be something
in the in the wam what do you have
against anarchism I have nothing I used
to be an anarchist when I was in eth
grade I had this friend named mads who
was part of a group called Seattle
solidarity which is like an antifa
precursor so I grew up like going to
Black Block protests and I mean there
was a particular shooting the murder of
John Williams who's a Native American
wood carver in downtown Seattle he got
killed by a Seattle police officer named
Ian Burke he John Williams was carving a
a pipe or from a wood block with a
pocket knife he's deaf in one ear
officer pulls a gun on him and says put
it down he doesn't hear him he shoots
him 6 seconds later so that police
involved shooting is what instantly
turned me into like a very critical of
law enforcement kind of person person
when I was super young and so as someone
who used to see this guy who got
murdered who was a 55-year-old man I
used to see him around pike place where
my mom lived it's a public market in
downtown that to me put me into the
anarchist political sphere be just just
channeling the anger of that experience
and the officer got no charges by the
way you can look up the video it's
horrific you know and it didn't get
reported the officer I'm pretty sure is
still active duty and so it's like
situations like that early in life
Chanel me toward political extremism but
I grew up to realize how um incompatible
that anarchistic worldview is with
reality and with the with American
society can only exist in a small little
chamber you know you can't apply that to
the industrial Heartland of the country
and I think also anarchism so gotten to
know Michael malice who's written quite
a bit about anarchism and it's also
exists as a body of literature about
different philosophical Notions that
kind of res the state the ever expanding
state in different kinds of ways and
it's it's always nice to have extreme
thought experiments to understand what
kind of society we want to build but
implementing it may not necessarily be a
good idea yeah me Emma Goldman I'm a
huge fan of her writing um also the
prison abolitionists that are associated
with the anarchist movement Angela Davis
Ruth Wilson Gilmore all that stuff
influential I still adhere to a lot of
those principles when talking about
stuff like radical prison reform and
stuff like that but just uh I I drifted
more toward having a more open mind as I
got older extremism implemented in
almost all of its forms is probably
going to cause a lot of suffering yeah
you worked as a door man on the uh I
could say legendary Bourbon Street in
New Orleans uh where you saw what you
described as this might be another
Wikipedia quote by the way this is where
I do my research Wikipedia hellish
scenes hellish scenes and quotes
Wikipedia is damn right about that all
right thank
you that's a win that's one in the wind
column uh so yeah tell the story of that
what's it like to work on bur stre what
kind of stuff did you see I mean I was a
host at a at a fine dining restaurant
that on the corner of bourbon and
Iberville so that's the first street if
you go from Canal Street onto the
quarter so this is like across from like
a dackery spot it's the the middle of
the tourist Corridor of New Orleans and
the spot was kind of like an kind of a
tourist trap it was called Bourbon House
the food was good Chef Eric I don't want
you to see this and think you don't make
good and Dey sausages but it was
overpriced and so I had to we had to
maintain this like fine dining facade on
a street where almost everyone is like
throwing up fighting or is half naked so
there was this policy we had these giant
glass windows next to the the the tables
so if you're eating at at Bourbon House
you can look out onto Bourbon Street and
you can see as you're dining a full
panoramic view of all these partyers
throwing beads boobs all that y we had
this policy where if we're serving
someone we can't look onto Bourbon
Street if something crazy is happening
so there's a fight or something like
that we can't look right so there is a
dude I remember I'm fucking serving a
table there's a dude in a Batman mask
butt naked with 12 pairs of beads just
jerking it yeah back to jerking it he's
jerking it right and every every single
person at the restaurant's looking out
there like look they're taking pictures
and the manager Sten looks at me he like
keep your fucking eyes on the table so
I'm serving these people you know I'm
like you want you like red beans and
rice or would you like some Creo fucking
and uh there's just this dude and you
know ultimately the manager went out and
you know escorted him further down
Bourbon Street but you know I would get
off work at around midnight every night
and that was when Bourbon Street is at
its most chaotic and so I lived in the
French Quarter as well so I lived I
lived about 12 blocks down bourbon on at
a in a small Creo Cott a cute little
like orange Old School New Orleans one
story spot I lived in the Attic above
these uh these gay meth dealers named
Frankie and Johnny oh wow and so I would
get off work and I would basically have
to walk through like this battlefield I
mean it was a battlefield getting home
was out of like the Warriors movie it
was of Humanity on display yeah it was
like Kensington Philadelphia but just
alcohol you know what I mean oh it's all
alcohol but it's a lot of a lot of
visitors right from outside almost all
visitors yeah and that that kind of
would set the flow for the weekend for
example if the Raiders were playing the
Saints Raider Nation and they do not
play around if it's the Patriots that's
a whole different crowd they think
they're better than everybody else yeah
well they technically are better than
everybody else but yeah but people from
Massachusetts aren't like the cream of
the crop in terms of like American
superiority strong words yeah no no
offense but I mean no that's I'm sure
they won't take that as much they are
good at fighting though I'll tell you
that all right great New England has
hands compared to some places which
places are those Colorado Colorado has
no hands
yeah the West Coast not too much hand
that's why you feel safe talking shit
about Colorado but if you get to the
cornfed parts of East Colorado I mean
these guys got hands bigger than my head
they'll beat the shit out of me but
anyways I'd walk back to uh to my house
on Bourbon Street and I would be sifting
through this battlefield and I had a
friend at the time who's like yo we
should do a a taxi capab confessions
type spin-off where we ask people to
confess a deep dark secret and we posted
the next day and so we we tried that and
it went viral on Instagram instantly it
was mostly incest stories you know
people admitting to incest I know it's a
common Southern stereotype but there's
some truth to it uh there was some
murder confessions that was pretty crazy
uh we never really posted any of those
but how did you get people to confess
pretty easy and New Orleans has a
homicide solve rate of like 22% so I
mean most of the time they'll they'll
just tell you I remember I was I was
walking down Bourbon and I asked this
kid I was like what's your deepest dark
of secret and he told me he's like I
just smoked a dude in the Magnolia it's
a project hous in the third W project
development and they said I just smoked
a dude in the Magnolia playground for
touching my sister molesting his sister
and I was like what and he was like yeah
look it up and I was like all right hold
on and it it was like man found dead in
Central City playground like a appeared
to be homeless shot execution style so I
told the kid I was like why'd you tell
me that he's like man put that shit out
there like I'm trying to go viral like
tag me too oh wow I don't think you
understand that even if you're a
juvenile he was probably 15 you can go
you can get juvenile life in Louisiana
for a homicide even if it's you know
Justified so uh I just deleted the
footage in front of him I was like I'm
going to delete this footage see that
trash button I'm hitting it right now
don't tell anyone that again and he was
like all right I appreciate it and he
walked off but it's the little little
moments like that I always anything for
the Graham I guess yeah after a while
though it became sort of uh repetitive
you know because there's only so many
things that people can confess to that
are that go viral you know and just oh
so you were trying to see like what well
I mean there's the incest one some
people just say like I eat ass that was
like every everyone said that like I
cheated on someone or I've seen a
surprising number of people on your
channel say mention eating ass
yeah the way how how seriously you said
that will live in my head for the rest
of my life that's good yeah I want you I
want to live in your head saying that a
lot of people mention eating ass yeah a
lot of people do mention that yeah also
that's kind of where I develop this
magnetism for freestyle rapping you know
everywhere I go people rap not sure why
I mean as a former rapper myself in
middle school and for the first year of
high school I think that maybe like it
takes one to no one but everywhere I go
people start rapping if you and me went
outside of podcast studio and walked
around for 5 minutes I could find
somebody it's rapping I can tell who
raps or who can rap who has eight bars
in their head that they're ready to go I
think you're also there's something
about you that gives them creates the
safe space yeah to uh perform their art
yeah that was the quarter confession
series was the first time you saw the
suit that's when the suit came out yeah
it was kind of like a Ron Burgundy Eric
Andre inspired type where' did you get
that suit Goodwill Goodwill yeah always
wow I was playing checkers you're
playing chess good job I mean Goodwill
has a surprising amount of identical
gray suits for sale yeah I've actually
gotten suits at uh at TH stores before
they're great yeah a lot of people
donate suits and I was going for
oversized suits which are the cheapest
ones there so yeah was like 12 bucks 12
to $25 every time for the outfit if I
want it to look super sophisticated like
like I'm from another era mhm I would go
to Thrift Store yeah cuz there usually
like this there's like a like the
patterns they have it's just like a more
sophisticated suit which is what you
kind of picked out it made you look
ridiculous but in the best kind of way
the tough part about quarter confessions
for me is that everybody that was
featured for the most part would more or
less regret being a part of the show
yeah and that over time just gave me a
bad feeling where I was like you know
what I kind of feel like I'm doing an
ambush interview especially cuz I'm
presenting as so agreeable yet the
intention is to make something funny
yeah and I get that that's what people
do in the satire sphere I'm sure Al and
Bruno and Borat did the same thing and I
don't think it's unethical cuz that's
all for the purposes of Comedy it is
what it is but for me I wanted to do
something different yeah because there's
an intimacy to confessing a thing right
and then you just don't really realize
the implications of that and the
atmosphere of Bourbon Street is like
anything goes like it's a free-spirited
place but if you transport that energy
digitally to a different place like
Colorado yeah they might look at it and
be like different place in time like
five years later right that same person
has a family and stuff like this and all
of a sudden they're talking about eating
ass right exactly kids have to think
about that or you know imagine if
there's a video of your grandma or
Grandpa out there when he was a kid
talking about eating ass that's a
horrible experience to to discover that
about your you know respected Elder
later in life it's tough I don't even
know where to go with that but uh is is
the literally the opening question
question was tell me your deepest
darkest secret uh yeah you just come up
to somebody like that yeah how often do
you get like a no how often what's the
yes to no ratio well the weird thing is
like we don't really um extract answers
from people like what makes a good
interview is when they're ready to talk
the more you have to talk and try to get
an answer out of them it it's just not a
good vibe like so we kind of look for
people who appear to be already ready to
talk open body language like they seem
confident in verbose and we approach
them for there's a look we wouldn't
approach a shy person and be like come
on tell me no what about a person with
pain in their eyes oh yeah we're
interviewing them yeah so they're ready
to talk they're just not like yeah
there's different ways to be
ready right I see homeless people a lot
and they always look fascinating and the
ones I've talked to are always
fascinating yeah we just did a video at
the Vegas in the Vegas tunnels like
trying to obviously it got taken down by
Fox but whatever we have I was going to
make a joke that I didn't see it
we tried to help a lot of them by
getting them
IDs and when I made the documentary I
had this idea that if I it's a big
roadblock for them is getting
identification without IDs you can't
check into a homeless shelter you can't
do day labor you can't qualify for
housing nothing so when when we
interviewed them they'd basically tell
us if I had my ID I wouldn't be here and
so we said okay we're going to really
help this time we're not just going to
talk to them about their struggles we're
going to actively go out and get them
IDs at the
DMV so we did that and you know nothing
you really changed in their life and we
sat down with a recovery specialist who
works directly with them day in and day
out and he explained to me that he's
been trying to do the same thing I tried
to do in a onee period for the past 10
years and that they have deeper
underlying traumas and pain that need to
be dealt with far before they even take
the steps to enter society as a housed
person that's a heavy truth right there
breaking that shame cycle has to come
first because you you got to think right
like I'm from a generation that
romanticizes vagrancy and homelessness
to a certain extent if it's called van
life or if it is done in a way that's
sort of like Rolling Stone Willie Nelson
hit the
road people who are above 50 they feel
really embarrassed to be in the spiral
of homelessness they feel like failures
a lot of them have kids who they weren't
there for that's not the kind of pain
that can be dealt with by giving someone
a tiny home it's a good step forward but
to to for someone to really make a
change they have to want to change and
so it's how do you help someone and
guide themselves in the right direction
and if you're too paternalistic and you
use shame as a as a method to get them
to clean up they're going to end up
right where they started yeah that's a
tough truth to accept because a lot of
people want a quick fix to things and I
don't blame people who go out and give
baloney sandwiches out to the homeless
and each case is probably its own little
puzzle
each person is so complex now imagine
drug abuse what that does for the brain
yeah trauma childhood trauma there's so
much to unpack and then just the uh the
belief that they're the
undesirables that they're that they they
don't deserve to be a part of society
because they failed a fundamental
obligation like taking care of their
kids if we could take a small tangent to
you mentioned this Vegas video which is
fascinating um it was taken down
recently by YouTube or YouTube took it
down based on yeah it was illegal uh Fox
5 I guess so the documentary was an hour
and 45 minutes we used 10 seconds of a
news clip that was publicly broadcast by
Fox 5 Vegas and according to the
Copyright Act of 1976 you're allowed to
use any publicly Broadcast News clip in
a transformative capacity in any
documentary film or research paper or
broadcast or anything um they
specifically this Corporation Called
gray media that controls the TV stations
in almost every small town they had
lawyers hit up YouTube and YouTube
YouTube complied with an illegal
copyright strike to get our video
immediately removed and I'm a YouTube
Partner I'm in the YouTube Partner
program so to think that I wasn't
forewarned is it's a bit strange but it
also smells like corruption to me to a
certain extent yeah you shouldn't have
that amount of power at the very least
they should have the power to just like
silence that 5-second clip maybe yeah
but I'm taking them to court because I I
have the means to be able to do so I'm a
larger Creator I have an audience I have
the financial backing to do it I can't
imagine how many people out there are
smaller creators with like not as much
consumer of a you know a fan base they
can mobilize against someone like Fox 5
or the money to go to court so I want to
take them all the way there to set
precedent for future cases so that these
giant main mainstream media
conglomerates can't uh copyright strike
documentary filmmakers at at will it
doesn't make sense oh thank you for
doing that that's really really really
important and that's really powerful and
it might hopefully Empower YouTube to
also put pressure on people to not and
YouTube is in a difficult position
because there's so much content out
there there's so many claims it's hard
to investigate but YouTube should be in
a place where they push back against
this kind of stuff as a first line of
defense especially to protect smaller
creators so what you're doing is really
really important appreciate it man and
it sucks that it was taken down are you
do you have any hope well I talked to my
YouTube Partner today and he said that
the Fox 5 lawyers have two weeks to
comply with my counter appeal but you
know I spent 20 grand on uh human
voiceovers in five different languages
so I invested probably in total like 70k
into this video so even if the it gets
reinstated the steam's kind of been
taken out of its trajectory but also
it's just like a really important video
is good for the world yeah why the hell
would Fox 5 have an a vested interest in
having the video taken down I I just
hate it when people do that to videos or
to creators that are doing good in the
world yeah it's not an expose on the
mayor of Las Vegas it's an attempt to
show the civilian public how to get
involved in a local nonprofit and
potentially intervene in the lives of
the tunnel people well fuck Fox 5 the
other channel 5 as you said yeah well
thank you for pushing back hey man and
highlighting it hopefully it gets
brought back up but yeah defending other
creators yeah so that other creators can
take risks and and don't get taken down
for stupid reason
yeah so uh Court of confessions was
written no it was all real life reality
TV documentary but it caught the
attention of a a larger company called
doing things media yes and they
contacted me pretty much like a week
after I graduated from college in the
May of 2019 and they said hey like how
would you like to produce a a show I was
like what do you mean they were like
we'll get you an RV we'll pay you 45k a
year you get to we'll pay for gas for
food for two hotels a week go out there
make content and we'll be in the
background just powering it all and that
was the birth of all gas no brakes yes I
mean all gas no brakes was named after a
book that I wrote called all gas no
breaks a hitchhiker diary which
chronicled the 70-day journey that we
were just talking about it's a tough
book to find by the way oh yeah there's
only a few copies left I'm thinking
about doing a reprint at some point down
the line but I sold off the last 100
copies like a month and a half ago MH
yeah until then you guys should go read
on the road by jck you should read it I
don't know if you read it if you can't
get my book get on the road by Jack
carow it's great it's the best when's
your birthday I'll send you April 23rd
okay I'm a Taurus coming soon sh typical
Taurus yeah yeah I'm a typical Taurus
man I'm a Scorpio Moon just write that
down what's the time when you were born
11:30 11:30 at night or oh of course
yeah typical this guy knew it that's the
real science yeah anyways so the name
the idea of all gas no breaks as a show
was to combine the the I guess Road dog
ethos of the all gas no breaks book with
the presentation and editing style of
quarter confessions so it was to take
quarter Confessions on the road that was
pretty much like a simulated hitchhiking
experience but with the editing and like
Punchy effects of cter confessions which
is like I wear a suit we do the fast
Zoom inss little effects stuff like that
it was a those were the the best years
it was just so it was just so fun I mean
imagine you're fresh out of college you
were just a doorman interviewing people
about like you know making out with
their cousin and stuff and then boom
this company that you've never even
heard of is willing to buy you an RV and
give you 45k a year which to me at the
time was more money than I could
possibly imagine so I called my dad I
was like Dad I need you to find me in RV
cuz he's the only guy I know who knows
about cars and even he doesn't know much
about cars so he's like all right I'm on
it so the RV was 20,000 mhm and the
first event that we were called to cover
was the The Burning Man festival and
that was tough because burningman is not
too keen on filming supposed to be a
non-commercialized you know escape from
the from reality I mean they have a gift
economy set up it's based upon like
Mutual participation and uh non-
exploitation and so the idea of making a
burning man video was tough at first
because burn burners often times and
this is not all of us but are pretty
well off in general a lot of them have
tech jobs are pretty high up in Silicon
Valley and burning man is where they go
to take off you know to take the edge
off and basically become their burner
Persona on the pla they become reborn
and they take ketamine and they wear
Kaleidoscope glasses and steampunk hats
and they you know snort MDMA and they
run around the sand listen to do you
snort MDMA that's one I need to go I
thought it's a pill I didn't know it's
better to take it in a pill or water but
you can snort MDMA I definitely need to
take MDMA I'm already full of love but
like that I probably go on another level
yeah don't snort it cuz it'll only last
you like 90 minutes let me write that
down yeah so anyways we didn't know what
to do because we try to film snort the
initial idea for all gas no breaks was
to instead of asking people what's your
deepest darkest secret it was what's the
craziest trip you've been on so the idea
was to not saiz drunk people but saiz
people who are fried on acid
and so we went to Boulder real quick did
a test interview with some lady who
talked about seeing ancestral aliens
during a Peyote Retreat and so it's
pretty easy to extract trip reports from
hippies and you know gutter punks and
stuff like that or oogles so we go to
Burning Man uh we start asking people
like you know what's your craziest trip
story and they didn't have the same type
of free flowing storytelling style that
like a on the street crust punk in New
Orleans might have where they're like I
don't give a fuck I'll tell you whatever
these people were very bottled up about
what they were willing to disclose so we
went on Burning Man radio and we did a
broadcast and we said hey we're we're
doing we're psychedelic journalists it
was me and my friend Cel at the time I
said we're psychedelic journalists we're
parked on tan and I which is across
street in Black Rock City and we said we
have a 1998 Catalina Coachman sport it's
an RV we've set up a podcast Studio
we're doing a show about psychedelic
voyages yeah so Lo and behold 2 hours
later we had 10 people lined up at the
RV nice willing to talk so that vetted
people in advance for us and so we did a
couple interviews uh and that was that
well what were some of the stories from
the trip rep boards uh there was this
lady named rosma who said that she was
known in several circles in Berkeley for
being multi-orgasmic and could create
multiple repeated climaxes using only
Her Mind by like squinting her eyes and
and squeezing her eyes together so much
that like the pleasure spiral just you
know went crazy I feel like I talked to
several people like that at Berkeley
yeah you know what I'm talking about not
that well yeah that lady I think she
manifests herself in many forms yeah
right so but still it was on the cruder
end there was one guy Nam uh Kimbo Slice
was his burner name he talked about
taking a shit after taking like a a
quarter of mushrooms and how he was like
seeing his childhood and visualizing his
past life you know as the the turds were
flowing into the toilet and just talks
about the Psychedelic Union between
pooing and taking taking shrooms so he
was very visual with his words yeah so
there was stuff like that I interviewed
Alex Gray which was super cool about his
first trip in San Francisco when he was
in 1971 shortly after the summer of love
I got to do some pretty cool interviews
but still it was a semi Ambush style I I
I wouldn't say that we were doing
journalism yet it was still comedic
video work you know was there a
narrative that tied it together it's
like really just a trip comedic almost
with the interview and then I go Burning
Man and then it's on to the next one so
I guess that could give a loose
structure but it's just like a punch and
slapstick thing
um everything was going good until we
interviewed this guy named DJ soft baby
but he was uh wearing a golden
leotard uh with once again Kaleidoscope
glasses short shortless dancing like you
know know dancing and uh he was eating
chowder out of a a plastic bowl and he
was like this chowder is so fucking good
he's like this is the best chout I've
ever had in my life and he starts
putting the Chow on his face and he's
like I want the Chowder all over me yeah
and so we we just go hey man can you
just do a dance for us real quick just
for some b-roll he does a dance we
posted on Instagram the next morning
doing things media CEO calls me read he
says all of our pages are
down and he's like that guy you filmed
dancing last night on drugs putting
Chowder on his face that guy's at the
top of MIT top of MIT I don't understand
what that means he went saying yo my
brother's a rocket science he's like
head of NASA or whatever well I mean the
guy knows people in Boston okay you know
not in the Whitey Bulger sense but in
the reverse sense I I have trouble
believing the DJ soft baby oh DJ soft
baby was Major it could have been
Harvard it could have been but it wasn't
it wasn't UMass I don't think there's
anybody that's at quote at the head of
MIT who's putting um what was it all
over his face uh chowder chowder well
then you haven't been to Burning Man yet
okay I'm not been to burning man so I
have to consult the my colleagues that
are my if they know DJ soft baby so
whoever probably was Harvard if let's
put it on them okay the top of Harvard
so he made some calls you know to the to
the tops to the heads of big Tech and
got all the doing things media Pages
taken down at the time that was like a
vast network of pages and we ended up
having to take the obviously the video
came down and he held the entire network
of Instagram Pages hostage and so that
was uh he he made us agree to never post
that video again and then somehow got
all of our Pages reinstated so that was
my first brush with like uh you know
powerful people on drugs and that was
probably my last brush with powerful
people on drugs so what what did you
transition into from there uh I think
after burning man we um went to the
South went to Talladega race weekend
went to a Donald Trump Jr book signing
went to a uh jugal adjacent fetish
mansion in Central Florida called the
sausage Castle uh Jugo
adjacent uh sa okay can you can can you
run that by me again a jugal adjacent
fetish mansion in Central Florida okay
fetish mansion in Central Florida jug
adjacent I mean every single one of
those words I feel like needs a book or
something um so uh jug by the way who
are The Jug is this ICP fans ICP fans
okay but I say adjacent because it's not
a jug Mansion but there's a lot of jug
who kick it at the Mansion it's jug
friendly okay jug friendly yeah because
they get made fun of in a lot of places
oh so it's not okay got it and Jugo say
outrageous shit you know and they
embarrass themselves and they fight a
lot so they're kind they're on the FBI's
gang list which if you ask me ip or the
the Jugos the Jugos if who's the the
head of the jug the Jugos it would be
violent Jay and Shaggy dope but there's
Associated acts like twisted and there's
a whole Rabbit Hole honestly Tech 9 is
sort of a part of that Tech 9 I don't
know who that is should I know he's a uh
he's actually one of the top selling
touring rappers despite having sort of
not that many streams Tech 9 is like
he's got a huge cult following in
Missouri this is like the jugal started
in uh war in Michigan we should also say
ICP in St clown posy so this is a thing
this is a movement oh yeah if you if you
went to Seattle right now and punched a
cop and they booked you in County Jail
you may end up running with the Jugos
running with the Jugos they're a
presence in Pacific Northwest prison
system from what I've heard can you tell
a Jugo from like a distance well they
say so if you see a Jugo they'll say
that also like I'll try to I'll try to
look they're kind of it's called the
dark carnival is the mythology they
abide by what do they Define themselves
what's the ideology family a family no I
understand but what's the ideology
what's the the philosophical foundation
of the uh they're
anti-racist uh they like to drink fago
and also just like cheap liquor and
stuff like that they're they they're
into drugs yeah you a lot of circles if
you pull out a crack pipe people will be
like I don't want to drink with you
anymore if you're at a Jugo party and
someone's smoking twizz or something
it's
relatively accepted what's twiz myth
meth right right lots of tattoos yeah
the hatchet man is the most common one
so it's a it's a Psychopathic Records
logo it's a cartoon of a clown Wheeling
a hatchet it's actually a pretty sick
logo I vaguely remember enjoying some of
the uh ICP Music it's good yeah it's
pretty good it's funny it's edgy they
get sazed a lot but I got love for the
clowns and also so when all gas snow
breaks transitioned away from you know
Rich Elite drug parties and into like
the south is that's when the fun really
started to happen living in your RV and
Alabama and Florida and stuff is the
best why why what what is it about
people are just so friendly down there
and it's it's warm year round and people
are non-judgmental it's just great the
South gets hated on a lot especially in
the coastal Coastal States Mississippi
and Alabama are kind of like the butts
of a lot of jokes and stuff but those
are great States no I love it New Mexico
Albuquerque all those oh yeah the abq's
is great ABQ what's that Albuquerque
it's what Jesse Pinkman called it as the
amq oh shit the the depth of ref
refences you bring to the table is
intense it's okay I met a lady in
Albuquerque when I was traveling across
the United States and she said take me
with you said I'm sorry ma'am I can't
yeah but I think about that lady think
you made the right call I don't know
yeah on the road yeah by Jack carak best
book I've ever read in my
life there's a there's a moment when he
meets uh a nice girl on a bus and they
have a love affair was good on the bus
or they no no he they went to C
California well yeah and there was a
love affair on the bus but it wasn't
sexual it was just romantic it was it
was in the air it was in the air which
there is something in the air on a bus
uh like a gry hound Mega Bus that type
of situation there's something certainly
something in the air but a romance there
is man when you travel AC cuz it's like
strangers getting together and you're
like feeling each other out and but
you're in it like you each have a story
cuz you wouldn't be taking a bus unless
you had a story so you're especially if
you're traveling across country there
something you ever taken the dollar bus
from Philly to New York the Chinatown
Bus yeah I have yeah that's a great bus
the people on that it's not a fucking
dollar though it it was a there's some
that are five bucks no no no no no no if
you book it way ahead of time which it's
like $20 I was like this is a fucking
lie calling it $1 I got I don't know why
I'm swearing the anger came out I
apologize swearing is okay sometimes
when I got last time I was on the
Chinatown Bus there was like a rooster
walking down the the aisle actual
rooster yeah well chilling it was
awesome there's a nice part of your film
with a rooster I forgot about that yeah
that felt almost
fake yeah did you plant the rooster no
the rooster there's a place in ebore
city in Tampa where roosters walk around
all the time and we had a rooster park
there right by the main drag for wait
did I say we had a rooster parked we had
the RV parked eore City for a long time
and the rooster laid eggs in the The
underc Carriage nice back to the all gas
no brakes thing though yeah so it was
lots it was really fun making it and
then we started all gasto breaks in
September of 2019 6 months later the
country shuts down and everything just
hits the fan I was actually here in
Austin when it shut down I was on Sixth
Street I remember the uh I don't just
hang out on Sixth Street all the time
but I was just here you do come on let
just be honest I do like Sixth Street
yeah I like East Austin better but I
like Sixth Street too so anyways the NBA
shuts down everything's shutting down
and so I went down to the dirty six and
I asked this doorman I was like are you
guys ever going to shut down he was like
fuck no bro
the dirty 6 never closes and I was like
all right we'll see about that next day
Plywood And then I was like all right I
thought my career was over when Co hit I
was like what are we going to do
nothing's happening anymore there's no
more parties or Talladega races or
burning mans to go to so I went back to
Seattle in the RV and I just spent four
months just depressed living in the RV
trying to figure out what would happen
but all gas no breaks went on still well
this was the crazy thing about that
period of time is that when when Co hit
I'm sure you remember everything turned
political yeah overnight in Seattle if
you went to a house party you can get
canceled you know because people were
like oh you're a super spreader so if
you wanted to socialize even with a
group of four or more you had to do so
with your phone damn near turned off and
a lot of people were doing hyp social
policing at that time beyond that in the
south and in more conservative places
they were doing the opposite they were
trying to prove that they could hang out
500 deep with no mask to make a
statement Against The Establishment so
you had this polarization that led to
more Division and that's when the antix
protest started and I went to Sacramento
and the passion was Unreal this is about
this is about two months after the covid
lockdowns began and that was my first
political video was at the Sacramento
the California state capital in
Sacramento documenting the they called
it the freedom rally but that's
typically like antiac stuff and uh it
was real intensity and that video was my
most successful to date at that time and
so I was like okay am I a political
reporter now do am I covering politics
like what's going on what were the
interviews that made up that video what
kind of what style of questions were you
asking what I don't know if you remember
but I was actually scared when the
pandemic started I thought that this is
something that might kill us all based
upon what I was consuming and uh so I'd
ask people what do you think about this
lockdown and I've had people say you
know I'm immune compromised if I get
exposed to co I have a 95% fatality rate
but guess what I'd rather be free and
dead than alive living in fear and I was
like wow so it was just stuff along
those lines you had some San Diego
Surfers there complaining about the
beaches being shut down when such
awesome waves were coming yeah it's
interesting how that really brought
out the the worst in people oh yeah I'm
not sure why why that is fear maybe
paranoia I don't know it really divided
people like along the lines as you
mentioned like triple mask yourself or
fight for your country yeah right
exactly like why are those are two
options that is literally what it was
yeah it's wild and both groups think
they're fighting for the survival of
something and so that's where you really
run into problems when you have two
polarized groups who both think that
their cause is for the common good
Mutual understanding is impossible at
that juncture and so after three months
of almost every everybody being locked
down George Floyd
happens and I remember I saw the third
precinct burning on my phone in
Minneapolis
and uh everyone
says Andrew you have to go cover this
and I'm somebody like I said you know
police violence has been close to my
heart since I was a kid and my first
thought is I can't do that I'm a comedic
reporter I can't go to Minneapolis and
cover this it'll be the end of my
career and um I had a friend named Lacy
who I went to college with and she told
me she was like bro this is your chance
for you to do something serious you can
actually create a meaningful piece of
reporting like you always wanted to
before quarter confessions and you can
turn all gasone brakes into a new source
so I called Reed who was the CEO of the
company company that owned all gas snow
brakes and I was like look man I want to
go to Minneapolis I was in Orlando at
the time I was actually at the sausage
castle and uh he said he said sorry the
sausage castle Yeah the Jugo Mansion oh
right that called the sausage Castle so
I'm watching Minneapolis unfold uh on
Lake Street where it was burning and I
got to the Orlando Airport and I booked
a flight without cons I booked it on my
own card I didn't consult my boss or
anything and I was sitting in my seat on
the flight and he he straight up told me
he's like if you fuck this up and this
destroys the brand we're getting a
different Host this if you mess this up
and you turn our our our show away from
a party show about drinking and drugs
and all that stuff and you make this a
social justice show
you're
done but I was like I just turned my
phone off I got to the Minneapolis
Airport on the second night of the
riots and when I got to the airport
there was National Guardsmen in the
airport and there was a it was like a
Call of Duty Mission and the one in the
airport and on the speaker they say if
you're arriving here right now you are
not permitted to go anywhere outside of
the airport National Guardsmen will
escort you to your Uber or to your car
they're going to take a picture of your
ID they're going to figure out where
you're going you are not permitted to go
outside tonight and so Lacy picks me up
there's two people in the back two of
her home girls wearing like shyy masks
I'm like what are we doing where are we
going and she goes we're going to go
film The Riot we're going to Lake Street
and so I we drive down there Kmart is
burning Target is burning everything is
on
fire she has the Sony A7 she gives me a
microphone and she's like go talk to
that guy and that was a guy with a
Molotov cocktail in his hand who had
just burned Kmart down and so I go what
should I ask him she goes what's on your
mind so I walk up to him and I'm like
what's on your mind he said something
like everything that was happening here
was supposed to happen this is how we
feel is it right no is this going to
benefit the community no but this is how
we feel this is how we feel that's
pretty powerful yeah that's a through a
lot of the the documenting that you do
this is how we feel is like yeah
screaming through that yeah and I
noticed that aside from a group called
unicorn Riot there was no one else
actually interviewing the protesters the
local news was on the bridge 15 not 15
but five blocks away you know filming
just the the scene itself just the fire
but I saw some crazy things off camera
too I saw so there was kind of two
groups there there was like the the the
anarchists more mobilized protesters and
then there was just mostly
African-American community members who
were just pissed who had nothing to do
with the organized resistance and they
were all kind of joining forces to Riot
and uh there was this Anarchist kid who
ran up to White Castle with like a
Molotov cocktail and he was he was about
to throw it at White Castle and this
black dude ran up to him and grabbed his
arm and he's like nah we fuck with White
Castle and I was like what and so you
see if you go on Lake Street every
business is burned White Castle remains
I also saw these dudes rip this ATM
out of a bank and hit it with
sledgehammers they were a group of
friends hitting it with sledgehammers
right they hitting with sledgehammers
boom all the sudden money starts
spraying out of the ATM like I've never
seen some shit like this like pouring
out of it and then this group of friends
who were just United and getting it open
start fighting each other for the money
as it's flying out of it and so there
was just it was like
a like Joker from the Batman's Army type
type Vibes but I got shot in the ass by
the National Guard it was no good
like a what a rubber bullet yeah yeah
not not feel honestly it
hurt it hurt I'm not sure what I was
expecting as an answer to that question
yeah I liked it it was good yeah and
then after that I posted the video and
it was very well received and that was
the pivotal point where I realized that
everything was going to change I mean
there was a still kind of a comedic
element to the way you do conversations
with the way you edit so did you see
yourself as a potentially like a John
Stewart type of character at first but
you know I just think human beings are
just funny in general yeah the absurdity
of it cool thing about John Stewart is
like I generally like to say that
anybody who works for corporate media
whether it be Comedy Central or anything
owned by Time Warner Fox MSNBC they
can't say what they want because in
order to climb up in those organizations
you have to appease The Narrative of the
company that you're working for to rise
in the ranks JN Stewart I feel like has
so much clout in the media world that
I'm pretty sure he can say whatever he
wants like I actually don't think that
John Stewart is controlled by anybody I
really don't I think that he can go on
his show and talk about whatever I do
think that certain people have broken
the brains of covid broke the brains of
a lot of really great people I admire
Trump broke the brains of a lot of
people I admire like to where Trump
trump derangement syndrome become became
a thing like you can't see the world
quite as clearly because of it and I
think uh John Stewart is quite a genius
at like stepping away even though the
world needed him in that time stepping
away during that moment of trump and
coming back
now sort of being able to reflect being
the sort of the Elder Statesman my
favorite John Stewart moment that
illustrates that perfectly is whenever
he went on the co Bear show and he was
just joking around with Steven colar who
I think is a full-blown propaganda
about uh the Wuhan lab League theory he
was just goofing around and he was like
it's called the Corona virus lab and
they had it before and now what do we
have and it was like you could see in
Steven colar that he was like gun to his
head type shit where he's like John John
stop joking about that yeah and that
made me realize like oh everything that
John Stewart did especially for the 9911
First Responders he's a true American
and not in the sense of like a that the
different political parties want you to
believe as an
American not a do your part and social
distance American not a you know wave
wave your Trump flag in the back of your
pickup truck American just a guy who
genuinely stands up for what's right
there is a degree to which you can be in
those positions easily captured by group
think though even when you're not
controlled by Bosses and money and all
that kind of stuff I think John seers
has been mostly resistant but it's it's
hard his position is difficult I think
he's done the best job though if someone
in that obviously Democrat connected
yeah corporate media economy he seems to
be the freest talker yeah so this is
when you first became famous I'm not
even sure what Fame means I mean I just
see myself as me when did you get the
shades oh that was on tour that was
that's a whole the shades that's dark
time
but I I didn't make like this is a meme
really I don't even know Sy I didn't
make journalism to like become famous
yeah I made it to give people a platform
to share their stories it just so
happens that people liked it enough to
where I became sort of famous but you
know if I could go back and not be the
on camera guy and just platform the
stories I would but the reality is
people need a face to attach to stuff
they like and so that's just how it is
but yeah I would say right around
Minneapolis protest Portland protest
proud boys rally time when I was really
in there is when started to be acclaimed
as more than just like a Ambush meme
Lord did that have effect on you the
fame not at that point not at that point
so like you were still able to have a
lightness to you well the country was
basically closed yeah so it wasn't like
there was a street to walk down where
people were like there's that guy so
getting famous famous during covid made
it so when the country reopened it was
as if like I my life really changed cuz
I was like oh all these fans I made
during Co are like seeing me out at the
bar this is cool yeah at first Fame is
the best thing ever because you can go
anywhere in the country and these spaces
that you normally feel a bit insecure in
like a local dive bar a cool restaurant
a coffee shop where you just be another
guy all of a sudden they're like oh my
God I'm a big fan they give you like
free stuff you get this sense of
acceptance that you never would have got
before so but there's also the dark side
well it's all love man I I I I mean I
just to speak to the first part you're
saying is there's so much love that
people have and they sh it's amazing I'm
sure you know what it's like yeah it's
beautiful the only downside of Fame
really is that you can't really be
anonymous again and you have to seek out
more strange environments to be
anonymous in like right now I live in
the desert basically and I want to live
in the middle of nowhere in the Mojave
Desert not because I'm scared of people
but because I just want to be like
Curious me again who people don't know
and I can ask questions to people that
I'm interested in without them going I
remember I see I seen you here or I seen
you there that's that's the main thing
that's what I about hitchhiking yeah
just to have anonymity yeah the best but
both are great complaining about Fame is
just the lamest shit yeah we should go
to furry conventions that you covered we
wear an wear an outfit I love furries I
should do that yeah we should we should
go together I go all the time we should
go together what's your favorite no I
have not I think you might like it more
than you think I
listen maybe I'm just afraid to face why
I really am yeah you're first s the the
true Lex will come out when you're yeah
in a $3,600 everything is suit lizard is
that what they go with well
scales are the lizard FES yeah and
there's a big division in the community
where they think scales are kind of
douchebag you know the scaly suits are
more expensive they're about seven Grand
whereas a fur suit is 3600 so and
they're also taller yeah so when the
scales pull up to the fur Fest it's like
ah fuck the reptiles fuck the reptiles I
can get behind that I like like more I'm
more like a teddy bear type of guy yeah
I think Bears I what's maybe squirrels I
don't know oh squirrels are so cool
giant squirrels yeah I want to put a
GoPro on one and just see what the hell
they do um you were you were talking
about that conversation with uh the guy
at the head of doing things media how
did that end up well I mean I want to
clear up a few things Reed the CEO of
doing things I actually think he's a
good guy I think that he was just trying
to run a business he saw what was
working for his brand which is very
College Centric very Festival Centric
and he was right to think that
journalism and especially coverage of
sensitive topics like covid or you know
police perality would definitely not
work on merch you know you're not going
to sell a picture of me interviewing
someone at a riot like you would me
interviewing a fur or a drunk dude in
Alabama it doesn't work the same so it
was a lot a lot harder to monetize not
just because of YouTube censorship but
also just because of the sensitive
sensitive nature of the content so Reed
was looking out for himself as a
business man there was a different
partner I'm not going to say his name
that was more connected in Hollywood I
think he's responsible for the the
collapse of the show what was the
collapse like what was happen right as
the country's reopening I get a DM from
Eric warheim of Tim and Eric and I'm I'm
covering something called the UFO Mega
conference in Laughlin Nevada which is a
beautiful uh Rivertown and um you know
he he DMS me he says let's make a show
and I'm like oh shit is this real you
know I grew up such a big fan of uh
Nathan for you and the Eric Andre show
and those are produced by their company
absolutely so I was like hell yeah let's
do it um three days later I get a call
it says Jonah Hill wants to hop on board
and I I can't believe this you know I'm
still in the RV and I'm in Laughlin
Nevada so I'm like Jonah Hill super bad
are you shitting me right now so I was
excited and uh oh and Moneyball Jonah
Hill's a great actor oh he's great he's
great all around yeah doesn't get the
credit he deserves well I mean he's got
the credit by now but still deserves
more so basically just within a week I
assembled this super team of Tim and
Eric super bad team yeah pretty much of
Tim Ander sorry I'm so sorry good and
Jonah Hill and yeah we just pitched it
around every single TV network rejected
it I don't know why and they mainly did
that because I was in this weird
situation where I had signed a contract
with doing things media that I didn't
realize was called a 360 deal that's
what they use in like the rap world
basically means that I can't do anything
outside of them without them getting
100% of the money so if I was to go work
at sabaro or Quiznos while I was working
for all gas no breaks they would get my
500 bucks a week from The Sandwich Spot
I was unable to earn any outside income
um I didn't read the fine print cuz I
was 21 and like I told you 45k a year RV
sounds sick yeah and uh basically the TV
networks were like why would we buy a
show if the digital brands going to be
running at the same time cuz they didn't
want to stop doing all gas no breaks to
make a TV show they wanted all gas no
braks to continue as a web show while
all gas no breaks as a future TV show at
Showtime or Hulu or somewhere like that
was also concurrently running which is
impossible for one man to do and so
every TV network said okay we're not
doing that we want an exclusive rights
contract with this guy uh next oh yeah
this is crazy to think about cuz it all
happened so fast so Jonah Hill says a24
films wants to do a movie instead of a
show and they're going to let you keep
the digital brand running so this meant
that I could keep doing my Instagram
stuff with doing things mediaall gas no
braks while making an a24 movie with
Jonah Hill and Tim and Eric so it was
just like I was excited it sound sounded
perfect so they said okay what do you
want to make a movie about and I told
them okay here's what's going to happen
in 2020 in 2020 if Trump wins there's
going to be riots across the
country the major cities are going to
burn down if Trump loses the militias
and his loyal supporters are going to
try to have a coup in DC that's what I
said and I said so I'm going to follow
the leadup to whoever wins the election
and I'm going to document what happens
after so they said okay and so I was to
begin filming in late October you know
during the campaign Trail maybe mid
October
up until November and then in the
following months to see what would
happen um this meant that I couldn't
film anything for all gas no breaks the
digital show because I had to dedicate
100% of my time to making this perfect
movie
yes still one of the partners at doing
things media was demanding that I not
only produce the movie but also more
content for the show and I told them
there's only so many hours in a day man
that's going to be impossible and I said
if you want it to be possible I can make
it work but I want to have half of the
monetization from the show 50% profit
split which I thought is fair if you
want me to do double work when I was
getting almost nothing before split me
in on the profits they fired us
immediately me and my two childhood
friends who I hired to work on the show
with me were all out of a job as we were
filming for the now HBO project we got
our fire notices the guts on those on
that on that person to cuz you should be
owning probably close to 100% of it I
think so too but they didn't see it that
way cuz they figured we made the initial
investment we discovered him is how they
they looked at it so it wasn't Reed but
it was the other partner who wasn't Reed
who said we have tons of verbatim he
said this we have I have tons of
Connections in the comedy world we can
replace Andrew overnight MH I'm not sure
why he made that miscalculation I wish
he would have thought about it twice I
wish he didn't have to end like that but
it did why do people do that like what's
the benefit of acting like that I think
you can part
amicably without the drama I think all
betrayal and anything like that is
motivated by self-interest whether that
be economic success social stability
whatever it is they figured that because
I was being such a burden in asking for
the profit that they could just release
me and find someone equally talented and
not split them in so they can make more
money
I see well that's a a stupid way to
think people think like that man people
who
are the word I use as like sidekick
syndrome like when people are kind of a
part of the production but they're not
integral they start thinking that the
front man doesn't matter or something
and that the brains of the operation are
actually the people on the periphery and
so they start to believe that they can
just shift things around and the
audience won't care not realizing that I
was actually the one who created the
show and that the lore of the show is
connected to my rise outside of their
jurisdiction if that makes sense like
the people who watch all gas no breaks
watched quarter confessions and read the
book and so you know well this happens
also not just financially but just with
people that uh s of part of a team but
they don't really contribute creatively
to the team and they they uh force their
opinion or pressure I mean whether it's
comes
[Music]
from um like from editors or all that
kind of stuff or from sponsors or this
this pressure they create when they when
the the Creator alone should be
celebrated and have all the power
because they're the ones that are
creating the thing in a way I have
sympathy because I I can't relate to
that because I've always been the front
man of my own projects by Design so I'm
not sure what it's like to be a like
someone's owner from a Content
perspective I don't understand the
challenges they face maybe there was
something that I didn't understand I
don't know true well often times if you
own a thing like this like this company
you do think about brand right and then
maybe have a big picture idea what brand
means and that that can be at tension
with the the creative project right yeah
like but ultimately
freedom for the Creator is is the best
kind of brand yeah I remember all three
of us who worked on all gas no braks got
fired at the same time and we were in
the we were in the RV that uh Tim and
Eric company bought for us which was a
bigger RV in the parking lot parking lot
of a Walmart in South Philly and the
propane had just ran out and it was 15°
outside so like the RV was getting
really cold really fast and I just
looked at my phone and it was like
you're fired and I was just like God
help me but I've had a couple moments
like that and God does help me and there
were always in the parking lot a wall
Walmart right well yeah although I know
that Walmart by the way the one in South
Philly is great yeah that's great but
technically now you can't park an RV
there well you're not you're not a man
who follows the rules if you know what
I'm saying the thing is though Walmart
Cracker Barrel and big five are supposed
to technically all let RV campers Park
overnight but if there's like a crime
problem in the city where they're at
they can Lobby individual Walmarts can
lobby with the corporate to take that
away so like all the Portland Walmarts
you can't sleep there anymore any City
with like significant homelessness and
like Petty property crime the Walmarts
are a
no-go fascinating so that was a low
Point
yeah and but from there From the Ashes
the Phoenix Rose over time yeah channel
five was born Channel 5 was born in the
march of
2021 after uh we finished filming for
the HBO project oh really so you went
all in on the HBO project at yeah I mean
we filmed the HBO project from November
2020 up until uh April 2021 damn near we
were just like you know picking up the
pieces going back for individual
interviews stuff like that so let's go
to that project it it turned out to be a
movie called this place rules was
supposed to be called America shits
itself oh yeah maybe you can tell the
story of the film you have what's his
name I wrote this down Joker gang and
gum gang is that correct yeah the
opening scene the opening scene of two
characters uh just talking shit and then
getting into a fight and that I I think
was really brilliant how you presented
that as a almost like a microcosm of
like the division between the the
extremes of the left and the extremes of
the right that's exactly what it was I'm
glad you picked up on it yeah and then
what I really liked is that the joke
again um Joker gang was kind of a little
bit of a spoiler alert I apologized but
at the end of the film is as a kind of
um voice of wisdom yeah I just he seems
the most he seems the most sane he was
the voice of wisdom he like cut through
it yeah I also just realized a lot of
people are going to stream the movie
after watching this podcast which is
cool yeah where do they stream it on HBO
Max yeah HBO Max I never got a chance to
promote the M it's such a pain in the
ass man I wish we could all just pay on
it on YouTube or something yeah and HBO
gets the profits or whatever but like
it's such to subscribe for every single
thing but yes if you want to watch it
it's really I recommend extremely highly
sign up to HBO whatever the hell on the
positive note HBO is great to work with
like that they're the most professional
like respectful company I've ever worked
with pretty much like yeah HBO has
created some of the greatest like TV
ever but even on in the background like
they get shit done there's there's no
there's no wait time they have some of
the best Heavy Hitters on their team for
trailers for posters all the promotional
apparatus they have is like super solid
did you get like good notes from people
there like how to a little bit man but
you know it's a it's a truly original
like documentary like I meaning like I
just haven't seen anything like it it's
even like it's so like there's a humor
and a lightness at the right kinds of
moments mhm um like like I said there's
like a rooster in your that's like okay
that's like a nonsecular like thing as
part of a storytelling it kind of
intensifies and reveals the absurdity of
the division MH and how one once like
January 6 happens like everybody like
goes on to the next thing yeah it's like
what happened to us is it was almost
like a delirium that everybody was
participating in some weird just like uh
well like people say mind virus like all
of a sudden we just got captured and
people just like yelling at each other
doing the most ridiculous shit and I
mean really January 6th the way you
presented especially just reveals the
circus of it all I mean it really broke
the the fourth wall that's how I would
describe it because if you were at
January 6th and the leadup it felt like
it was the beginning to a series of
similar riots but it just popped off so
much that that was it there you haven't
seen anything like it since there was
supposed to be a second one on January
20th it was the actual in ation that
never happened it was a crazy time to be
alive and around and especially the
relationship that I developed with um
Enrique toio who's the former chairman
of The Proud boys he's now facing you
know 23 years in prison it took a trip
because I went to his house in Miami
maybe two weeks after January 6 and
talking to him it seemed like he didn't
think anything was going to happen he
was just like yeah man that was crazy
I'm I'm glad I wasn't there like they're
dumb for doing that he even told me he
doesn't think the election was stolen
mhm which is just a mind fuck it's like
what why'd you get everyone so hyped up
it's just weird to think about how so
many people's lives are drastically
altered forever because of that just
bizarre moment in time that we'll always
live
on yeah what what did you uh q and on as
part of that story what did you learn
about Q andon from that um just an
all-encompassing worldview that family
that I talked to I call them the cubon
family but it's called the Spencer
family you know they were non political
up until the stop the steel movement
began in September of 2020 and within 4
months their entire life revolved around
the mythology and lore of Q and I've
never seen in my life a scop just devour
people's minds in such an intense way in
such a rapid period of time and I love
how the kids in the movie are also the
voices of wisdom the Spencer family it's
the kid who like goes to the full
Journey yeah of like believing um that
whatever Hillary Clinton is a lizard or
and just believing all the the worst
versions of the conspiracy theories and
then kind of waking up was like what was
the point yeah it was heartbreaking to
see his disappointment and his dad for
even you know following qanon so
militantly cuz he was like iel like they
let my dad down I feel like they let our
family down you know because January 6
was supposed to be the day according to
konon that the storm happens and that
the military is supposed to mobilize and
arrest the members of the deep State
Clinton Soros all that Trump was
supposed to go into a helicopter you
know what I mean and take control of the
country back from you know the swamp and
it didn't happen in fact the next day he
was like almost denouncing it now he
doesn't but then he did and it was a
really I think it hurt people's Pride a
lot my my friend forg AO blow he's a
trump rapper he describes it that way he
says a lot of people's Pride got hurt by
January 6th Trump rapper oh yeah dude
there honest there's some pretty dope
Trump rap out there I'm serious they
there yeah like you would think like oh
yeah magga there's no rappers there but
there's rappers and they do a pretty
good job they're good at delivering the
messaging they want to deliver yeah I
mean they think of stuff that I'm like
that's clever oh they like they have
some political depth to them yeah wow I
mean is there something more you can say
about like how q and out works like
who's behind it what's your sense of
who's behind the whole thing you know
I don't want this to sound rude or
anything I just don't care about qan on
you know what I mean i' I've put so much
thought into it and I just can't seem to
care about it was it a like almost a
disappointment cuz like
the to me it was like a thing that just
captured a very large number of people's
minds and then it just kind of faded I
guess that's why it just seems like uh
it's gone and the ideas of Q andon have
just bled into mainstream standard
conservative thinking but there has to
be a kind of retrospective like but
that's the problem I have with Co you
know a lot of stuff happened everybody
freaked out there's a lot of big drama
around it and now everyone's like okay
forgot yeah just like moved up wait what
are the Lessons Learned has anyone
learned any lessons yeah like what
exactly what I'm saying is I don't want
Q andon adherence to see this and think
I don't care about them yeah but like as
far as who is behind it the damage is
done yeah but what are the mechanisms
that made it work I mean that's you
think have you kind of like thought
about that I I kind of think that these
viral ideas can be driven by and your
film kind of shows this by just a
handful of people and they're not
malevolent they just want the clout yeah
and there's something sexy there's
something really sticky about conspiracy
theories like especially extreme ones
you just kind of like it some of them
can have this momentum they capture the
minds of a lot of people and you just go
with it and it like when I hear some
conspiracy theories like there's
something like a small part of me that
kind of like
yeah it's possible you know that qanon
is a scop to distract people away from
actually uncovering what the Deep state
is and who is truly uh running things
behind the scenes because the Deep state
is just the
1% it's that you take you get people so
close to any type of class Consciousness
and then you totally divert everything
into like lizard humans who live on the
moon and that Hillary Clinton is eating
babies on camera and qanon did just that
that they want you to they want to
convince you that one there's no
conservative deep state which is even
more hilarious that Trump isn't
connected to a huge Rich corporate
apparatus of propagandists and two that
the Democratic establishment is the only
deep State and that some middle middle
of the road conservatives that there's
no grifters or manipulators outside of
of that three-headed snake you know
there's grifters everywhere everywhere
everyone wants to make money dude this
is the world that we're in it's in
collapse everybody wants to make money
and engagement is the rule of law so
anything that's why these news
organizations follow retention
incentives they want to make money by
selling ads so they try to create fear
and constant division to enrich
corporate media establishment and you
have people who are almost realizing hey
it seems like Fox and CNN might be owned
by the same people and are tactically
using these machines to keep us divided
perfectly 50/50 to ensure that the power
structure never gets disrupted and then
you get then you get these people you
know who's going to save us Donald Trump
that's the guy how is that the guy it's
not the guy and I don't have TDS I don't
I'm not an orange man Basher who thinks
about the guy all the time but I don't
think he's the guy
uh you were
shirtless lifting
weights while whiskey or some alcohol
was poured into your mouth by Alex Jones
in this movie and then you did the same
to him that's true mhm it feels like an
interrogation uh so Alex was uh was a
part of this film he was like throughout
throughout the narrative and you had you
had a great interview with
him uh what did you learn about
interacting with Alex
for making this film for one is that
he's the exact same off camera as he is
on camera yeah it's not an act he told
me that all Real Americans die before 58
he mentioned Sean connory and a few
others and uh how old is he getting up
there yeah I think early 50s yeah um I
just found it fascinating I mean how how
nice his studio is I mean the guy's got
like an MSNBC level setup I actually had
a great time with him you know
I mean it's bizarre because having him
in that movie created so many problems
for me and when I interviewed him you
know I didn't necessarily portray him in
the best light you know we joked around
a bit but it wasn't an Alex Jones hit
piece necessarily but I like to think
that I was a bit critical of him in the
film especially the ways that he
antagonized his supporters to storm the
capital or to follow that trajectory um
he told me when I met with him he was
like I know you think that have me in
this movie is a good idea but um you're
going to have some serious backlash
because of that at the time I was like
man it's fine you know it's all good
we're just hanging out drinking whiskey
doing bench presses drinking Jameson
it's all good it was uh first of all I
had to campaign to get him in the film
because the studios were like we don't
there was a bizarre time around like I
think it was 2018 where deplatforming
was the big thing that people were
encouraging it said giving a platform to
problematic ideologies in turn expand
their reach and so even extending your
platform to someone who's problematic is
helping them AKA destroying Humanity
whatever it was so that was the whole
thing and uh when I did this media
training that was you know mandated by
HBO it was all training and how to
defend from that exact question they
said when you when we put you on NPR and
we put you on
CNN they're going to ask you about
platforming problematic ideologies and
you're going to have to say stuff like
sunlight is the best disinfectant I
believe that extremism only goes away
when you shine a light on it because
leaving it in the dark will only allow
it to grow they gave me like 15 pointers
um I didn't use any of those pointers
because I'm not the kind of person who
wants to be media trained like I like to
speak freely but in the promotional Run
for the film you know when I went on CNN
this was a crazy
experience so I went on CN CN and
thankfully my friend was with me and so
I'm on CNN and by the way your friend is
chilling in sunglasses laying in the Cod
right now that's it's like
the it's a a mix of like the dude from
Big Labowski and uh uh the Brad Pit role
in uh True Romance yeah you know that
reference no but I mean I'm sure it
describes Larry kind of looks like Brad
Jack carw yeah yeah so so HBO had a
pressed tour set up for me and the main
ones were CNN and NPR and so they said
we're going to you're going to go on CNN
on the Don Lemon Morning Show and he's
going to ask you about your life what
led up to the movie what we can expect
so I get in the studio it's about 7
o'clock in the morning in New York at a
show the night before at Time Square so
I'm like groggy eyed whatever they put
the lab on me boom I'm live on CNN
Sunday morning and he goes how would you
describe Enrique taro's mental state in
the leadup to the capital insurrection
and I'm I'm looking around I'm like is
this guy serious like am I am I
sandwiched in the January 6 hit piece
right now I thought it was about me yeah
and so I told him it's not about Enrique
toio it's about how companies like Fox
MSNBC and even your station CNN use the
24-hour news cycle to enrage people to
generate ad revenue and pit Americans
against each other during times like
that and he said there's nothing fake
about CNN I said I didn't say you were
fake news I'm not saying you're lying
but you're directly antagonizing and and
stirring people up against half the
country because you need money during to
support a dying platform you said that
pretty much nice and uh great you know I
was so my mom was watching it she was
texting me she's like what are you doing
and I was like I don't know and so he
goes why'd you extend a platform to Alex
Jones and I go I don't know I just
wanted to drink some Jameson and lift
some weights with him you know I'm just
at this point I don't support that kind
of media I don't support CNN so uh you
know I just I didn't give them much
information about Alex but it was very
awkward they never posted the segment
online when I got off of that
interview uh I had a Handler that a24
assigned to me so I had someone with me
and she you could tell she was flustered
like she was Furious about what I just
did and so she goes I just got an email
from Time Warner seite and I go what's
Time Warner seite she says I don't know
if you know this but the same people who
who own the same people who own CNN own
HBO and it's Time Warner
and so they canceled my press tour so my
press tour was finished you
know uh all the late night shows that I
was supposed to go on I was supposed to
go on like the late night shows and um
that was off the table cuz they were
worried that I was like a loose cannon I
think and then the only remaining uh
appearance I had left was NPR in Boston
and that was supposed to be a Premiere
so it wasn't supposed to be an
interrogation it wasn't supposed to be
anything like that supposed to be a
premiere in front of a live audience
where they watch the film and I show up
after for a Q&A so I'm like all right
whatever it's kind of weird they only
have this one press opportunity left I
kind of felt bad that I ruined the
entire press Tour by confronting Don
Lemon but at this point I wanted to just
do this final one especially because it
was a a viewing and I was like cool I
want to I sat in the audience I watched
people laugh to the film it was awesome
so I go backstage and there's an NPR
journalist waiting for me and nothing
against people who wear masks but she
had two n95s on and I'm not two n95s is
it's it's over the line so I go hey
great to meet you she doesn't shake my
hand and I go why not and she goes
you've been around some people who I
don't want their germs
yeah oh and I'm like okay okay this is
weird I thought this is a sort of like
fun premiere for my movie we sit down
the first thing she asks me is how do
you think the Sandy Hook families would
feel about you platforming one of the
most despicable Americans in history
Alex Jones
MH in front of a live audience NPR never
published this the only recordings of it
are by a fan named Rob in Boston who put
it on YouTube vertical phone footage and
I literally am like well the Sandy Hook
family's lawyer Mark Bankston who
represented them in court in Connecticut
told me specifically that Leonard Posner
the father of Noah Posner who died at
Sandy Hook was a huge fan of the film
and so I said that to her and that kind
of just like silenced that conversation
but the rest of the whole conversation
was just about exploitation and why are
you platforming mentally ill people and
giving a platform to conspiracies like
qinon don't you feel like you're a part
of their spread some would call you a
misinformation
reporter all this crazy stuff and yeah
next day hit the fan fuck all those
people that film just in case you you
don't get a chance to see it and you
should you're critical of Alex Jones in
in the most
most Artful way like it was the correct
way to be critical it it showed him to
uh be more interested
in the grift of it uh and you didn't do
it in a like a pointing fingers and like
saying uh in the kind of NPR way that
you just mentioned it's but more like a
human way like this is tragedies happen
all over the world and there's grifters
that roll in and then take advantage of
in interesting ways and human beings get
swept up on either side of it and it's
revealing the humor the absurdity of it
all and it was done masterfully it was
done like for people who criticize you
for platforming Alex Jones or whatever
yeah the film from a political
perspective is probably leans very much
left yeah like heavily left but does it
without that
exhausting energy of like judging just
this kind of you know yeah two two masks
kind of judging yeah and it was just
uh when all that was happening when I
was under Fire from the mainstream press
for platforming Alex Jones I thought
back to what he said to me and doesn't
mean I agree with everything he says but
he told me you're going to be in trouble
with these people if you uh put me in
your in your video and you know it
wasn't too bad of trouble but definitely
I do think
sometimes what the film would have been
like without him and I think that it was
worth it because his scene is so funny
to me and it brings me back to a
different time in my life and I'm happy
that that scene's out there I think it
it was it was really well done it show
the the layering of it all the
entertainment plus sort of not
considering from his perspective the
consequences of like rattling people up
in this way that it's not just I mean
you really highlight this in the
interview like it's he keeps saying it's
Infowars but then there's always kind of
a sense that Infowars can turn to actual
like Civil War and yeah but maybe not
maybe be it's uh all just a circus like
we play for each other if you look at
the speech he did on January 5th it was
said he said tomorrow you know millions
of patriotic Americans will take our
country back yeah so he eggs people on
and then when it gets hot he steps
away yeah but like you said the thing he
told you he turned out to be right oh
yeah and the frogs are becoming gay
they've always been
gay well saying frogs are straight is
even crazier I've read stories where you
kiss one and becomes a prince and yeah
that shit's true
100% you think Alex believes what he
says in terms of the everything he says
on infow Wars like how much of it is
real he's right about like big Tech
censorship me I think if he's right
about anything it would probably be the
heads of big Tech colluding together
across company lines to deplatform
certain people he's right about that uh
I think most of the things that he says
follow the question everything narrative
and everything is kind of like a
conspiracy or like a plot or a false
flag I think that he's built up a
following for so long that wants him to
do that you know so I think he'll
question things that he probably thinks
are relatively straightforward because
that's the Stick of the show I mean the
infowar is fighting misinformation and
people want to see him be that guy to so
to a certain extent if you're a Creator
who supports your family you do follow
economic incentives and people want you
to be the character and so you're going
to naturally gravitate toward being it
do you feel that pressure yourself I did
years ago not anymore I feel like now I
can speak freely and really say what I
want to say in my new life but when I
was younger yeah I feel like I had to be
this uh sort of awkward sort of amicable
Alo guy who just didn't think anything
about anything and just was here to
listen but now I feel more confident
adding some narrative and voice over and
things like that so for some people
especially who uh publish on YouTube the
the YouTube algorithm they can become a
slave to the YouTube algorithm yeah I
mean for sure cuz and I I definitely
feel that sometimes I know what works
for me but I I like to think that my
audience appreciates when I try new
things so I'm not totally enslaved to it
I mean yeah I try not to pay attention
to views or any of that well you you get
some high views so I'll report that for
you no I I so I wrote a Chrome extension
that hides all the views on anything I
create so you took it to that level yeah
just cuz it's a drug man and I'm also a
number guy meaning like you give me like
if I do 30 push-ups today tomorrow I'm
GNA try to do 35 just like enjoying
number go up like that's why I like
video games like uh RPG is like where
you're like improving you're skill tree
you're like getting an extra point and
and there's some aspect of YouTube and
other platforms anything any other
platform you're like oo I got more today
than got yesterday that's really really
dangerous to me because it can influence
how much I enjoy a thing
H like if nobody gives a shit about it
based on the
numbers you're like oh maybe that wasn't
such a great experience I thought it was
a great experience but maybe it wasn't
yeah honestly I do actually feel that
way sometimes like I'll put out
something that I care about a lot but if
the if it doesn't get as many views I'm
like all right it must have not been as
as good as my higher view videos or
whatever yeah that's that's just like
not true though yeah and it might mean
like on YouTube that your thumbnail
sucked or something like this or
whatever whatever however the algorithm
works but I mean that's the the thing
I'm battling against to make sure I
ignore all of that right it's actually
something Joe Rogan has been extremely
good at he gives zero shits yeah and I
think it's it's easier to do when you're
really successful well he was doing that
when he wasn't successful really but
anything he just follows like the stuff
he enjoys doing and legitimately enjoys
it he happens to be really good at it
but he gets good because he's doing the
things he really enjoys and like fullon
yeah passionate about and that's why
he'll have like ridiculous guests and
just and just like just shit he enjoys
doing yeah it's pretty cool maybe I'll
one day try to do that for now I'm too
attached to like the gratification of
getting a million views in a day and
stuff like that I'm I'm not going to lie
to you and say that I've beat that or
something like well it's a worthy enemy
to be fighting cuz it's a drug and it's
one that should be um resisted for a
creator cuz I feel like it can do
negative stuff to your mind as a Creator
oh yeah for sure anybody that controls
you MH is is not good A lot of people
are controlled by Their audience they
don't have to have a puppet master on a
corporate level audience incentive is a
a different type of uh I don't want to
say slavery but yeah it is and that's
why variety is good and you're doing
that yeah always expanding uh well let
me just zoom out on this you made a film
yeah that's pretty cool yeah it was a
great experience man I mean it was
awesome working with Tim and Eric
awesome working with Jonah Hill I feel
the same about HBO and a24 everybody
that I worked on the film with I have a
lot of love for and uh I appreciate the
experience it's my first movie it's a
big deal like it a good one in my head
it's like that I finally got to make the
transition from a YouTuber to a
filmmaker and that was always this
psychic barrier that I felt like I had
to jump over you know there's a I mean
just the way it's shot the humor that
goes throughout it
just the the narration that you're doing
in like a shitty director's chair
M um that's really well done whose idea
was that uh it was actually Tim and
Eric's idea there was a really great
editor named clay who works for
absolutely and they did all the editing
pretty much in the office and so it was
Clay's idea to add a retrospective
director's chair narrative Arc to the
whole film yeah just like starting with
the Absurd fight and then going like oh
that that's a good way to start a movie
just really really well done thanks man
uh what about Jonah Hill like great guy
he believed in this he did so was that
what's that like what do you think is
behind him believing in such a wild
project I think that Jonah Hill has a
good eye for like what's cool amongst
the younger folks like he's into
skateboarding stuff that's why he did
that film mid 90s and I think he
probably saw a similar thing in what was
going on with the all gas no breaks and
was like shit this this could be this
could be big and so not only did he
actually fund the film he also gave me
his agent and I forgot to mention that
it was Jonah Hill's lawyers that he gave
me for free that got me out of my
contract eventually with doing things
Media or freed me up to speak about what
happened so he was also part of you kind
of gaining your freedom yeah in a weird
way like even though him and I don't
talk that much just because he's doing
his own thing Jonah Hill is like a huge
factor in my current success and just
like everything that I've been able to
accomplish just on your own politics is
it fair to say that you're uh politics
leans left I'm not really sure sometimes
you know I like to think that I am
socially left like I think people should
be able to dress and act like however
they want I don't believe in restricting
people's social
freedoms um economics wise it doesn't
seem like leftist Economic Policy works
very well on a city city funding level
like if you see what's going on in
California it seems like the uh the city
leadership is mishandling the funds and
California too so I don't know about
that but I don't know I don't really see
myself as left or right I just never
have well if you just like objectively
zoom out and don't have an insane
standard of the extremes it feels like a
lot of your work leans left I tend to
lead toward lean toward like the
empathetic perspective which I do think
is more on the left and the
right but I also I'm not into like super
like PC
stuff you know I don't believe in
limiting Free Speech either I don't
believe that I believe in a free
internet which I think is more embraced
Now by
conservatives it but it does seem that
maybe you can correct me but I get the
sense sometimes that the left attack
their own very intensely it does happen
but every Community has terms of Exile I
mean look imagine think about what
happens in the conservative realm you
know like when Black Rifle Coffee
Company like denounced Kyle Rittenhouse
they lost a lot of money too like it's
not the right attacks its own too I mean
think about Bud Light and stuff like
they terms of Exile I mean you know like
every Community
has terms of Exile you just got to know
who you're engaging with and you got to
make that decision carefully it'd be
nice if there's an actual write up of
the things you're not allowed to say for
each thing and then yeah I wonder whose
list would be longer it just does feel
like the left's list is a little longer
if you're a conservative and you have a
t-shirt with like a demon on it like say
goodbye you know what I mean you know
there's certain stuff that they freak
the hell out
about um and conservatives are really
concerned about pedophiles yeah I mean I
don't like pedophiles either but I don't
think about it all the time was one of
the things you do in the film is kind of
confront one of the qanon folks where
his concern is that everybody's a
pedophile and you showed to him well
calls himself a pedophile Hunter and
makes videos exposing Democratic Elite
pedophile cabals and is himself a
convicted child molester there's an old
thing that people say that every uh
confession every accusation is a is a
confession to a certain extent so like
it's it's bizarre that some people's
whole life after a big mistake will
revolve around trying to see him like
the good guy instead of taking
accountability for themselves yeah it's
a common thing you see all the time like
neighborhood watch people you know what
I mean like what made you that you know
like what did you do bro that you feel
like you have to get karmic retribution
by doing the reverse I don't get it yeah
do you think uh to the degree you have
bias that affects your journalism no but
I mean with the migrant
situation I don't know what was that
covering that like I just got a lot a
lot of hate from conservatives for like
letting the migrants tell their stories
about their journey and
stuff what what did you learn from just
going to the Border I mean just the
sheer desperation that the the PE the
citizens of the world are in I mean
there's people who truly believe that
America is the only hope for their
success and to feed their family and I
think a lot of them are kind of getting
catfished meaning America has its
problems too it has severe problems
there's extreme poverty here but there
in America like if you just compare to
other nations the level of corruption is
much lower to where the
opportunity for a person to succeed to
rise is is higher I wish success on
everybody who comes here but my thing is
the expectation that they have and the
sort of American Dream propaganda
they've been installed with isn't
necessarily reflection of Contemporary
American reality so I'm talking to
people who speak no English and say I'm
here for a better life I go where are
you going to go they say I have no idea
and I'm like man that's tough and you
you almost think how bad are things
Elsewhere for someone to abandon their
family make this journey across multiple
continents and end up here with no plan
and it just made me realize
how sheltered I am to a certain extent
as an American and going walking back
what I said a little bit because I was
just trying to make a point yeah but
what what I think of as bad poverty like
let's say West Baltimore or ninth War
New Orleans is nothing compared to
what's going on in almost half of the
world if not more and so it just made me
zoom out a little bit and sometimes you
forget about third world poverty when
you live here for so long and you get
programmed to believe the worst things
that are out there is like Kensington
Philadelphia or tenderland San Francisco
but those are just microcosms of more or
less functioning cities despite what
they might lead you to believe
Philadelphia is a great place so is San
Francisco but there's places where
everywhere is really run
down yeah and like people focus on uh in
major cities in the United States like
homelessness somehow that's a sign of a
fallen Empire right but you know that
that's a problem there's definitely uh
it reveals some uh mismanagement of
cities and government I mean
homelessness in Seattle and San
Francisco is for sure a result of the
housing crisis especially postco and all
the gentrification that preceded it you
know and it's unfortunate now to that
the conservative media is saying like
look at Biden's America as if Biden
created homeless people and it's just
disappointing because once again you're
seeing the media use real issues that
should in every US citizen
and causing people to point fingers at a
different political party as responsible
for the suffering of others do you think
January 6th can happen again
no I don't think so it's all the lessons
were learned yeah for sure I mean people
got really screwed over I mean don't you
have a sense that there's a greater and
greater growing questioning of um the
electoral process and all this kind of
stuff I think that Americans overall are
very comfortable with our standard of
living I think people like going to
Sonic and waiting in their car and
getting milkshakes and people like going
to the AMC Theaters and they like going
ice skating and mini golfing and going
to the bar after work I don't think that
anyone wants a collapse of the basic
structure of the country even the most
politically divided don't want to see
7-Eleven go away we are so comfortable
if you look at other countries even
Europe look at how they protest and look
at the Arab Spring those guys were
talking like January 6ers and they
actually took control of the government
yeah you know and so think about even if
the Maga crowd took over the capital
building it's just a
building I I don't know I just think
that Americans when when they talk about
Civil War stuff it's just so we're so
far from that even if the rhetoric is as
divided as it was in 2020 it won't
happen
again for it to really happen it has to
be um there has to be a level of
desperation there has to be a level of
economic Des operation that's causing
people to starve or some basic uh
resource going away water something like
that who do you think wins Trump or
Biden in the Civil War well we know the
guns in in a the game of Mario Kart no
in the uh election 2024 oh man I have no
idea man I don't even know if I'm going
to vote it's weird that this is our
choice I know I wish people were more
more focused on like City politics like
I'd rather vote like yes or no for a
bike lane in my neighborhood than I
would for the president so local
politics to you is where it is feel it
oh I mean you can your vote actually
matter you let's say you have a
community of 500 people and you live in
Henderson Nevada you can influence
whether or not there's a bike lane or if
this is going to be a playground or you
know an amm you get to choose and you
can influence a 100 people to choose and
boom this is your community you can't
influence the result of an election
still that those at the presidential
level it sets the toll of the
country and uh so Trump running again
and Biden running again it just feels
like there's going to be a lot of
questioning of election results I just
can't believe those are our guys yeah I
mean what is that's really our
guys like that's where we're at all
these smart people we have in this
country the great
history we got Joker gang versus gum
gang mhm where'd you find Joker
gang well is he a jug or is he just no
no no no joker gang is like a Miami
Cuban guy oh is Joker 305 rawest Chico
alive so me and I have been following
him for a long time on Instagram because
he used to like uh post videos of
himself like popping perco setes and
smoking blunts on the toilet freestyling
and so I had follow him for a while and
then I finally got this platform and I
said oh my God I bet you now that we
have a million followers Joker gang will
sit down with us and lo and behold the
clout did its thing and there I was face
to face with the man there was a
controversy a year ago where a woman
came forward and said that you were
pushy with her you respected the know
you got the consent but you were pushy
about it looking back can you tell the
story of that what are the lessons you
learned from it yeah I mean I've yet to
speak on this for a lot of reasons
mostly because it's just a it was a hard
time and it's a sensitive subject and
I've wanted to prioritize the reporting
but I think that now I'm uh ready and
able to do so everything sort of started
on um December 30th 2022 and that was
the release date of the HBO project like
I told you we didn't know when the movie
was going to come out we weren't told
that it was going to come out on that
date until early November and so it was
like oh my God here we go we had a movie
coming out HBO had I didn't even know it
was going to be them so every day for
those 50 days to where I received word
and the movie announcement or to the
movie release was like I was like a kid
waiting for Christmas morning you know
what I mean it was like every day I just
I saw the movie release date as the
first day of like the rest of my life
and so I
remember the week of the movie release
it was like every day it was like oh my
God six days 5 days four days and when
it became two days like I was so excited
and so like honestly anxiety riddled
because it was such a massive platform
that I went out to the desert by myself
out in the Mojave got a hotel and just
kind of sat there and then movie release
day comes it was supposed to come out at
um 8:00 p.m. Pacific Standard time I
remember it was like 12 hours left 10
hours left and then 8 minutes before the
movie at
7:52 or I guess it was sent at 10:52
East Coast time I got a text message uh
requesting a portion of my fat HBO check
to contribute toward apparently years of
therapy bills that this person had a
crude after she says that she felt that
I pressured her into giving consent
years prior and I was confused not not
only because of the timing but because
this is someone that I hadn't seen in
years or spoken to in years and I
presume that I was on good terms with um
so I didn't respond to the text message
and then when I didn't respond about 7
Days Later this person made some Tik Tok
videos and with the help of some friends
launched an online campaign they got
picked up by the Press pretty quickly
so what did you feel like when you got
that text
well it's tough because on one hand I'm
not opposed to restitution being part of
a private accountability process for
real abuse you know like if you've hurt
someone to an extent that it took them
out of work or something like I think
they're entitled to some
money but unfortunately as I later
learned this person had legal council
and this was an attempt to basically
create evidence by extracting a conf
from me to use as precedent for a civil
lawsuit to the tune of a couple million
dollars it's
dark yeah how did you meet this person
well I met them when I was 22 and like I
told you I was living in an RV making
the show called all gas sow breaks and I
would travel between cities like every
other day and so I would basically pick
a new city and I got in this like pretty
bad habit of what I would say is
essentially treating Instagram like a
like a dating app you know I would go to
a new place I'd post my location I'd
surf the DMS and I would look for like
fans to meet up with it wasn't always
girls it was just people to party with
cuz I was also partying every night but
a lot of times ended up being girls and
stuff and so that's kind of how this
situation was um I didn't have sex with
this person um had a consensual
encounter that they reached out to me
about two weeks after saying hey I don't
want you to take this the wrong way but
looking back I felt a lot more pressure
to agree than I realized in the moment I
don't think this is any fault of yours I
just think that you came on a bit too
strong and I didn't want to let you down
so I gave in and it was that language
made me feel horrible mainly because if
this person had told me hey I don't want
to hook up I would have said yeah of
course not why would I don't want to
hook up with someone who doesn't want to
hook up with me and I think that as Fame
increased during that time I think I was
just kind of oblivious to
how people were seeing me especially
those who had a digital relationship
with me prior to me knowing them and I
don't think that I handled that the
right way well thank you for taking
accountability but just to clarify you
got consent yeah I was the initiatory
party in an interaction with uh a fan
who felt it she had to say yes because
of I'm not sure why I don't know why but
like I said this person also disclosed
to me they had a history of childhood
trauma and were actively being treated
for PTSD and that they felt things move
too fast for them giv their situation
and so I I told her I said hey if you
want to reach out if you want to talk on
the phone I'm always here for you I'm
sorry to hear that let me know if we can
talk further um about six months after
that um I was at Sturgis Bike Week and
uh I remember this day this was the
hardest day I was just chilling and I
got a text from my friend and it said
hey man you're getting canceled right
now and I was like what do you mean like
did someone find an old tweet or
something what are you talking about and
I opened my phone and it was this
Instagram story of me it was like the
ugliest picture of me you can find it
was like my face open it was like
screenshotted um and it said I remember
this specifically cuz I just couldn't
believe it it said the ugly loser who
hosts all gas no breaks is a piece of
shit he knowingly abused my friend and
got away with it if you follow him I'm
going to message you and ask you why so
this person who I don't know I didn't
even know where who the accusation was
coming from they text they emailed every
production company that I was working
with DMD hundreds if not thousands of
people like just saying that like I was
this piece of shit and I didn't even
know who this person was so I was
frantically calling and texting like
every person that I'd seen intimately
for the past year and being like hey are
we on good terms is everything okay and
then I figured out that the person was
coming from Florida and I knew who it
was and so that thankfully I reached out
to the original um person who I had the
communication with and um I said hey
like I think this might have been you
this might have been your friend who
posted this are we good like I'm I'm
sorry I I apologized again I was like
listen I feel bad that you feel this way
I want to do anything that I can to help
you again I apologize and um she said
apology accepted I'm sorry my friend
asked if I could if she could post on my
behalf and I'm sorry I was going through
a lot mentally and I saw your Fame
increasing and so agreed to let her
speak on my behalf and um we let we made
amends in private you know I said okay
I'm here for you let me know and she
said apologies enough thank you for
taking the time to speak with me and
that was two years prior to this text
message being sent to my phone 8 minutes
before the movie so naturally I wanted
to go on my platforms and talk about
what was happening but I but I also
didn't want to mess up the roll out of
the movie you know and uh so the the pr
firm was like we got this we'll handle
this for you and that was I guess by way
of a TMZ thing that said Andrew Callahan
is devastated I'm not sure why they
thought that that was going to make
people be in my favor but it was just a
picture of Me on NBC that said Andrew
Callahan devastated by allegations that
that was their plan I guess to show that
I was remorseful or something you know
how much of this do you think lawyers
kind
of pushing this when money and fame are
involved well I wish I could say the
lawyer but I just can't um that was
involved in this but I will tell you
that I try to lean away from resentment
and toward accountability completely
what was my role in the situation how
can I never make someone feel like that
again what can I do what changes can I
make to make sure that one I never treat
someone this way and two to never be in
that position again well again thank you
for taking accountability and the main
reason I talk about that is because it
wasn't just that person there was
multiple people who made videos
reporting similar behavior and so it's
obvious that that was a pattern of
behavior of mine and so I made the
apology video to announce that I was
taking some time away because I just
needed time away I mean my entire
support system collapsed my friends at
the time disappeared I was getting like
obituaries texted to my phone that were
like hey it's been nice knowing you it
was great to see you grow good luck you
know like I was dead and uh yeah got
dropped from my agency no one gave me
tough love no one called me to ask me if
I was all right it was just only
everyone disappeared in a
week again thank you for taking
accountability but I just hate how many
coward there are out
there like when people hit low points is
when when you should help
when you should stand with them if you
know the their character yeah and it was
just um it was hard to separate like the
initial situation that I knew was more
or less a setup and the possibly genuine
other
accounts and so it was like all right
you know what at this point in my life I
want to be on the right side of History
I don't want to be the anti-canc culture
mouthpiece I don't have the the mental
strength to fight this especially
because I was envisioning the HBO drop
to be this like the world opens up to me
moment and it was just the
reverse but the uh it wasn't so much the
the media reporting on it that hurt me
it was just little stuff like a a
childhood
friend that you love seeing they
unfollowed you on Instagram or just like
seeing someone on the street that you
grew up with like waving at them and
they don't they don't do anything back
and and you're just like oh my God man
like
this is my new life but what are you
supposed to do thankfully I like somehow
two weeks after I met an amazing partner
who I'm still with to this day and I was
able to conquer my two biggest fears
which is monogamy and dogs I was
terrified of dogs and terrified of
having a girlfriend now I have a
girlfriend who I love and two
dogs so what were the what was the
lowest point well right after after this
happened I entered like a recovery
programs started with AA but then I
found a more specialized program that
dealt with the issues that I was dealing
with say the hardest point was
um logically
deducing that the lives of my loved ones
would be better off if I was gone you
know what I
mean and uh thinking that my my mom and
my friends that their life would be
better if I took myself out of the
picture and um for one I just figured
you know their friends canceled you know
her son is a disgrace you my my family's
going to think they raised me wrong and
my friends I'm a social Pari now I'm a
burden I'm better off dead and uh the
hard part was you know I would read um
stories and books written by parents who
lost their kids to suicide and they
reported feeling a lot of anger after
the
suicide so I tried to think of what's
the way I can do it to get the least
amount of
anger on behalf of the people who would
grieve cuz hanging someone will discover
you so I figured drinking myself to
death would be the way to do
it and uh I wasn't able to yeah that was
just a dark place you know I remember
hating the people who loved me
because I knew they would grieve and
that made me mad that makes sense like I
was ready to go I had no will to live
but but their grief was like I didn't
want to cause that cuz I don't want to
hurt them so I was like I hated the
people who loved me cuz they were
stopping me from taking my own
life you know and uh it's weird to think
that like when I was going through
that if you walk by me in the street I
look like a normal
guy and so now when I walk around and I
see people I think to myself you have no
idea what that person is going through
you know like it's crazy that so many
people are suffering in like
complete silence and you can't they
don't wear it on them you know many of
the people you talk to are probably that
yeah many people you've interviewed
before all this and after are probably
going through some shit I also thought
if if I could write down what I just
told you on a piece of
paper and I was to to do it and then
they found the note they would take it
more seriously cuz they would know that
I wasn't lying yeah but then you know if
you do it it reduces the lifespan of
your parents by 15
years so I looked at it like I was
taking time away from
them well thank you for the most part
leaning towards
accountability it's the right path to
take uh what advice would you give to
young
men uh that look up to you on how they
can be good men especially in regard to
women if you have any kind of platform
you know whether it doesn't have to be
famous on Instagram it could be like if
you're a pillar of your community in The
Culinary world or whatever it
is um just be hyper aware of that and
remember that you are inheriting a power
Dynamic that can create situations
where there might be some pressure that
you you don't even realize is there but
it's definitely there and you just have
to be aware of that and two
um when when meeting new partners having
hookups and stuff like that just try to
have a trauma informed conversation
about their
past really
know the experiences and the backstory
of what a new partner has gone through
in that world of
intimacy whatever they're comfortable uh
uh you know to share obviously but you
know I would advise against one night
stands I would advise against hooking up
with someone um that you're meeting for
the first time have those conversations
prior because even though it might sound
like a Vibe killer it's not and if you
think that that conversation is a Vibe
killer you probably shouldn't be in that
situation in the first place especially
now how hypersexualized things are and
how common that type of violence is you
need to be able to have those
conversations and stop and say hey tell
me a little bit about your past is there
any triggers to make you uncomfortable
let me know how I can be the best
partner to you and I'm sure that college
age people are not having those
conversations but I'm sure that it would
go a long way
so especially when you're young college
aged you don't have enough experience to
be able to read a person without having
that conversation cuz a lot of times you
can see the trauma without explicitly
talking about it but that takes
experience and knowledge and seeing the
world when you're young and you don't
know you really don't know shit making
things a bit more explicit is probably
better yeah and also like as men were
trained to believe that it's our duty to
be the initiatory party in any type of
like sexual encounter like oh like man
chases woman you know what I mean like
you know you have to be the one to make
the move and or like she's playing hard
to get if you know she's resistant to
your first like compliment or something
I think that that's not always how it
has to be and that extra caution needs
to be placed if you're taking the
initiatory role in an interaction
especially if someone has a traumatic
background they might agree to do
something with you because they're
scared and you might not realize that's
what's going on but because you don't
you don't see yourself as a predatory
person you don't see yourself as someone
who would ever consciously make someone
uncomfortable or cross a boundary but
people have histories that you might not
understand and for me as someone who
doesn't have much honestly like
childhood trauma or anything like that
it's been an interesting year for me
working in therapy and elsewhere
understanding how that affects the mind
and also I understand that hurt people
hurt people and that someone with a
traumatic background isn't going to have
sympathy for applying that traumatic
pain to someone else even if that person
isn't the cause of of what put them in
that spot if we can go back to Channel 5
can you tell the origin story of that
yeah I mean Channel 5 we during the AAS
snow breaks days we used to tell people
that we were called Channel 5 if we
wanted them to stop antagonizing us
while we were filming cuz every town has
a channel 5 so when people were like
what's this for if they were being super
rude and like trying to get into the
camera and be hella obnoxious we would
just say oh we're Channel 5 and they
would be like oh my grandma's going to
see that and they would leave us alone
so Channel 5 was a diverse tactic during
all gas snow breaks and it just so
happened that we were in Miami Beach one
time and this kid came up like drinking
liquor like you know trying to yell
about like whatever they whatever they
yell about in Miami Beach like titties
or whatever and uh we're like bro this
is Channel 5 be careful what you say and
he was like for real and he just walked
off and I said to my friend at the time
I was like that sounded pretty good
right channel five and he goes that it
sound pretty good he's like that's got
to be trademark though
no it's not trademark yeah it's crazy
right there's a channel five in every
city Channel 5 KTLA Channel 5 Seattle KO
news dude channel five itself we own
it cuz no one's thought of something
that simple because you'd think you'd
have to specify we own channel 5.com
channel 5.new dude we own it it's it's
awesome so it was the same kind of
spirit as uh as the previous thing but
uh what was the first one you did under
the channel 5 flag Miami Beach spring
break I think I've seen that and it's
going to be a call back I think I think
there um I think somebody mentioning
eating ass there too that would be the
place I believe that there's only about
five places in the US where people yell
about eating ass all the time Bourbon
Street South Beach Miami 6 Street in
Austin Broadway in Nashville and I'm
just going to go ahead and say Time
Square you might not think it but Time
Square really yeah the yellow bad ass
there CL Square I would say be Street in
Memphis but it's not it's not good oh
yeah I mean beill street is like the
median age is too high on Bill Street
for anyone to yell about
ass W this is a fascinating portrait of
America through that specific lens so
Miami Beach and then uh how would you
describe your style of interviewing just
now that you've collected so
many if you if you had a style how would
you describe I guess before especially
it used to be like dead pan now I would
describe it as more directed but still
relatively affable agreeable dead pan
interview style yeah there's a like in
the face of absurdity yeah you're just
like there with a microphone there
there's a There's a comic aspect to it
mhm and that's intentional yeah I used
to look at the camera like Jim from the
office back in the day yeah I don't do
that
anymore what about the editing like how
do you think about the editing I still
do most of it but Susan helps a lot too
it's my associate uh yeah the editing
style like I said we pioneered this
editing style that honestly was inspired
a bit by like Vic Berger but we took it
to real life crash zooms kind of
chopping up vocals a bit to add comedic
timing where it didn't necessarily exist
like you might add two seconds of
awkward silence that are built with room
tone or you might make everything really
fast by cutting silence and switching
frames
I mean switching camera angles but now
we try to be pretty straightforward
because we want to be taken more
seriously you
know yeah sure what's crash Zoom by the
way a crash Zoom is when the like it's
artificial Zoom that you might add in
adobi premere where the camera Zooms in
on someone's face where the resolution
is not there the resolution is not there
unless you have a like a Blackmagic
Cinema Camera which you don't we don't
we don't use those the file size is too
big the file that's the only constraint
yeah and you also do uh voiceover
storytelling I think the first time I
really did that was in the San Francisco
streets video because there's so much
content about San Francisco homelessness
tenderloin shoplifting but there's not
that much context in those videos about
the history of San Francisco the housing
crisis nimbyism random zoning stuff that
sounds boring but has a major role in
the current situation on the streets
there as to why the tenderloin is
neglected by police and by the city
council and the other neighborhoods like
Knob Hill and North Beach are so nice so
I added that purposely to the San
Francisco video and then also to the
Philadelphia streets video to accentuate
the reporting and add some historical
analysis what's your goal with some of
these videos like the Philadelphia
streets one is it to reveal the full
spectrum of humanity or is it also to
tell a story that's almost political
about state number one is always
humanization that's the primary goal is
to take people in circumstances where
they're often news items and remind the
public that these are people with lives
and concerns and dreams just like you
but secondly we also want to start
introducing more solution oriented
journalism so not just oh my God I'm
becoming aware of how horrible this is
but what can you actually do to help and
as you can see with the Vegas tunnels
video people are responding pretty
positively to it like here's how you can
maybe help a homeless neighbor help get
them an ID help them qualify for housing
or get a job at the scrapyard there's
always ways to help but so much of the
YouTube world is oversaturated by just
like endless videos of people suffering
and the comments are always like wow so
horrible but what does that really do
for somebody
you uh you've uh interviewed many
rappers yes educate me there's a lot to
it yeah uh can you explain this drill
rap situation what what is drill rap
evolving situation drill began in 2010
some people say it was Chief Keef in
Chicago I think it was King Louie in
Chicago but I think all of it was very
very influenced by Waka Flocka Flame who
dropped an album called flock ofi in
2010 that was like hyper violent
adrenaline
boosting rap music made by people who
were actually in the streets so in the
990s you like you had 50 Cent you had
rappers rapping about like whatever
gangster shit selling crack and beating
people up but they weren't actually
doing it drill has a true crime
component to where drill fans want to
know that the person rapping about
catching bodies does in fact kill people
so drill is uh it's pretty horrifying it
sounds great but it started in Chicago
then it spread to England and now it's
bounced back to New York spe like the
Bronx and Brooklyn specifically and
spread from New York to the rest of the
country so now there's probably a drill
wrapper every 10 square
miles so these are as opposed to
pretending to be a gangster and killing
people you you get some credibility by
actually doing it yes and the fans are
typically not in the communities that
are affected by poverty so they're kind
of like superheroes to white
kids it's dark and not just white kids
but just anyone who's not in the hood
it's not necessarily a race thing
there's white drill rappers too slim
Jesus was was a big one he's out of the
picture now but there's there's white
drill rappers slim Jesus um you made a
video on oblock yeah what is what what
is O Block the place the culture the
people you O Block is a housing project
in South Chicago in the Englewood area
uh where Michelle Obama grew up uh it's
also where Chief Keef was born and
raised I don't know if he was born there
but he was raised there and he is the
the forefather of modern drill music as
we know it so these are the projects
where drill began it's also the first
place where you have that intersection
of drill music and True Crime because
oblock has a lot of rappers and then
nearby is an area called St
Lawrence AKA tuille which has a lot of
rappers as well and so these two rival
drill gangs
basically have you know a lot of history
and it connects to music at large so
you've interviewed people there
mhm was there any concern for your
safety no I mean I think that um
oblock is has calmed down a lot for one
it has security so you can't even really
get in and out but two I I think that o
Block's trying to Rebrand itself a lot
because it could be because Lil durk's
avoiding a RICO charge could be for a
variety of reasons I know you don't know
exactly what that means
but Lil Durk or raer Little Durk is from
affiliated with oblock Y and a lot of
people have been murdered and
retribution for killings that l Durk may
or may not have influence the ordering
of but anyways and Little Durk
documented the killings in in no via rap
music probably okay I know you don't
know about drill and but Lil Durk was
associated with a rapper named King Von
and King Von perhaps paid for the
assassination of a rapper named FBG Duck
who got killed in Chicago's Gold Coast
neighborhood it's possible the oblock
six are drill Associated not rappers but
just Shooters and they perhaps operating
on King Von's behalf when and killed FBG
Duck King vau was Little Dirk's artist
King Von's now dead so there's a
definitely a concern that some of the
FED charges will fall on dirt not sure
if that's true but it's Rumors in the
hip-hop community so oblock right now
and when I film the video is trying to
go through a major image rehab if you go
on any Instagram of anyone in oblock
they've all converted to Islam and so
they post pictures of themselves praying
in the morning and have captions like
put the guns down let's pray so I think
when I went there they saw it as a good
opportunity to do a positive Rebrand and
and so I interviewed a rapper named boss
toop who was there all the way back in
2011 when Chief Keef was coming up and
so he basically insured my safe
protection but he didn't even need to
they're all very friendly and they know
exactly what's up with YouTube stuff I
like how 2011 is the old days like the
ancient oh yeah the found the founding
fathers I was in eighth
grade oh man time flies when you're
having fun it sure does little Durk
where's Little Durk now
Atlanta so you left Chicago not safe
yeah I mean every rapper has to leave
their Hometown that's what I did it's a
[Laughter]
journey Seattle would have taken me out
bro how's your I mean you do interview a
lot of people I mean that's like a top
comment but it speaks to the reality of
the fact that you always find somebody
rapping or you uh yeah you create the
space for people to rap what's that
about I don't know man they're usually
really good you think so I appreciate it
well hell yeah man I mean rappers in
their own way since I touched a
microphone rappers have gravitated
toward me m I think there's something
happening you're a rapper Whisperer I
think there's something happening on a
deeper Cosmic spiritual level yeah that
lets the mind of rappers know that like
they have a safe place in front of our
camera crew you have an interview with
crip Mack I do
fre he's a jail right now oh he is yeah
is that a hashtag yeah for sure what uh
that's an intense interview people
should go watch it people should go
watch your uh all your interviews but
that one is pretty intense thanks um I
was a little afraid for your life oh
kmax the safest guy in the world he's a
sweetheart oh definitely dude yeah but
was fun I feel like more safer on kitac
than I do on with any given pedestrian
yeah he was loud and flavorful yeah I
should say so uh who's he what's his
story well his name's Trevor he grew
grew up uh in Ontario California in the
Inland Empire moved to Texas with his
mom after his dad left his mom um
started started dating a cop from
Houston named Mr Gary um his mom found
Mr Gary getting you know anally
penetrated by a cooworker and so uh she
booked KPM a one-way Greyhound ticket to
La where he joined the
Crips that's a good story
[Laughter]
you know it's true oh you jumped right
to Mr Gary yeah
yeah I'm just saying that uh you know
he's a classic case of somebody without
a father figure who found camaraderie
and you know sense of belonging and
purpose in the a street gang which in La
is like a rule of law in most of the
city uh we were I you getet in what
context earlier talking about martial
arts and fighting and he's got to work
his punching form him I yeah I think so
he gets into a lot of fights in jail
though and from what I've heard he wins
like he does about half of them so it's
all right what do he go to jail for now
firearm possession it was a probation
violation oh it's too
bad all right uh what so Philly you went
to the Border mhm occupy Seattle
protests you went to
Ukraine yeah uh what are some
interesting things that stand out to you
from memory just as I asked the question
some interesting I mean I was in jail at
the border for for a while that was
horrible what was that like was that
your first time yeah well you know I
didn't know that I couldn't hop my own
border as an American I'm thinking this
is my country I can get in any way that
I want wrong you can only enter the us
through an official Board of Entry which
I learned the hard way cuz I got
arrested by border patrol and held as a
detainee at a Migrant Center for a few
days what was the that like horrible
which aspect I mean well for one like I
don't know it was just to be in a place
like that and I probably sound like such
a wimp right now cuz I know someone's
watching this who's done some hard time
but we thought we were going to do at
least 6 months in jail cuz the the
guards freaked us out and we're like
you're being charged with a federal
crime you know what you boys did is
serious we're waiting on word from San
Antonio about whether or not we're going
to extradite you so we're just sitting
in these cells alone most of the time in
solitary with no pillows just a no
pillows no pillows no mat nothing just a
space blanket and I was sleeping on my
shoes stinking up the place it was no
good uh you mentioned the UFO
convention yeah um what have you learned
from those guys the
ufologists I really want to know what
you think about that that's the one
question that I want to reverse on you
because you've talked to so many people
do you think that aliens have actually
visited Earth yeah when so when uh exact
dates I
do I think there's alien civilizations
everywhere I talk to a lot of people
that have doubts about it I just
think I even suspect there's a
intelligent alien civilization in our
galaxy and I just can't imagine them not
having visited us so I lean on that what
that actually looks like I don't
know uh the stuff we're seeing in terms
of UFO sightings I think that's much
more
likely um to the degree it's real it's
much more likely government projects so
military locky Martin this kind of stuff
so you think that they have knowledge of
it yeah yeah one thing I think about
with aliens is scale so we have this
idea that uh an alien would be a gray
alien or a almost humanoid lookalike
that would visit us in human form arms
legs head but who's to say that they're
not able to shrink down to microscopic
size with the same neural capacity yeah
or just have a very difficult to
perceive form but I mean that they would
go small not big no I think that would
take a humanoid like form just to be
able to communicate with humans I think
that the the the big challenge with
aliens is to be able to find a Common
Language so if you come to another
planet and you suspect that there's some
kind of complexity going on but it looks
nothing like humans you have to find a
Common Language mhm and I think aliens
would try to take physical form that's
similar that that us dumb humans don't
understand language is really
interesting too I have this series that
I'm gonna announced for the first time
on here but I'm really interested in
endangered languages in the US there's
like 150 languages in the US with less
than a thousand speakers wow and I want
to like help spearhead efforts to
preserve some of these like for example
Hawaiian sign language 15 of those
people left holy shit because when
Hawaii got annexed the ASL Community
tried to make it so the deaf native
Hawaiians wouldn't be able to speak
their native uh sign language and so
they would do it under the desks at like
schools for the deaf and blind and they
would get like their mouth washed out
washed out with soap and stuff if they
um so much as did the Hawaiian hand
signs also the gagi language in the
South Carolina sea Islands Hilton Head
Island and stuff that's like a it's
almost a creole language that's been in
the US for hundreds of years existing in
isolation that's being threatened by
Golf Course developments I don't know
how into language you are but I've been
getting super nerded out about it
actually I'm interviewing somebody
tomorrow who's an expert in human
language he's from MIT
um studying the the syntax of a lot of
languages including in the Amazon uh
jungle the the the peoples that live in
the Amazon jungle region yeah it's
fascinating human language is
fascinating and also the barriers that
creates and also how the games are
played to what you're speaking by
governments this is part of the story of
Russia and Ukraine is is a battle over
language um the Ukrainian language is a
symbol of of Independence which is why
they M they were trying to make it the
primary language of the nation so
sometimes the language represents the
culture and the peoples yeah it's like
intricately tied to the culture of the
people I've been trying to learn Navajo
which Which languages do you know
Spanish and
English Spanish well
see I don't know Spanish that well so
that passes me yeah you're fluent
basically yes oh it
doesn't Ola that that was good that was
real Cancun spring break well I actually
speak fluent Spanish according to
Spotify because there's a uh every
episode's translated overdub by AI in in
Spanish my God yeah there's a very a
Spanish robot assigned a Spanish robot
it's really it's I sound like incredibly
intelligent and intellectual in Spanish
Freedman
exactly
uh from everything you've done all the
people you've seen do you think most
people are
good Underneath It All
yeah so the ones that do all the extreme
shit okay I'll put it like this most
people think they're doing the best
thing for the world I don't think anyone
except for maybe a small fraction of
sociopaths wakes up every day and says
I'm going to fuck somebody's life up
today I think the far majority of people
are fighting for what they think is
right and do want to see America succeed
Ed and want us to be in a happy place
where no one is subjugated I just think
people have drastically different ideas
of what means will get us there and
unfortunately that's leading to a lot of
misunderstandings between cultures and
yeah I think that uh most people are
good I've been through some things that
lead me to believe that a lot of people
though are primarily motivated by
self-interest and that in a fighter
flight situation most people will choose
flight so I don't know if people are
courageous as a whole but I think
generally good but the energy to stand
up for what's right not sure about that
they have the capacity though to do good
I think human beings are inherently
selfish as well but I don't think that
you selfish is inherently bad I think
humans are primarily motivated by
self-interest but generally have
positive uh
intentions I do hope more humans rise to
the occasion and have courage courage of
their convictions courage to have
integrity but yeah I I think that most
people are good and they want to do good
and they have the capacity to do a lot
of good M um that's why I have hope for
this whole thing we got going on how do
you heal the misunderstandings between
people you think listening it's the only
option we have no forced education no
like forc meetings or mediations between
political opponents just listen to more
people and really listen try to get rid
of whatever preconceived notions you
might have about how you should feel
about someone you are supposed to
disagree with and just keep your ears
and your heart open to people that you
don't know and your life will
change keep your heart open a lot of
people are scared to
listen well Andrew I'm a big fan and
thank you for being one of the best
listeners in the world Amen and showing
the full spectrum of humanity to us so
we can listen as well and learn and just
thank you for doing everything you're
doing keep hey man thanks so much for
having me on you're a great man thank
you brother I appreciate it thanks for
listening to this conversation with
Andrew calan to support this podcast
please check out our sponsors in the
description and now let me leave you
with some words from Hunter S Thompson
The Edge there is no honest way to
explain it because the only people who
really know where it is are the ones who
have gone
over thank you for listening and hope to
see you next time