Kind: captions
Language: en
the following is a conversation with
Jordan Jonas winner of alone season 6 a
show where the task is to survive alone
in the Arctic Wilderness longer than
anyone else he is widely considered to
be one of if not the greatest
competitors on that show he has a
fascinating life story that took him
from a farm in Idaho and hoboing on
trains Across America to traveling with
NAD tribes in
Siberia all that helped make him into a
worldclass Explorer Survivor Hunter
Wilderness guide and most importantly a
great human being with a big heart and a
big smile this was a truly fun and
fascinating
conversation let me also mention that at
the end after the episode I'll start
answering some questions and we'll tried
to articulate my thinking on some top of
Mind topics so if that's of interest to
you keep listening after the episode is
over this is Alex Ren podcast to support
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Jordan
Jonas you won alone season 6 and I think
are still considered to be one of if not
the most successful Survivor on that
show uh so let's go back let's look at
the big picture can you uh tell me about
the show alone how does it work yeah
it's a show where they take 10
individuals and each person gets 10
items off of a list you know basic items
would be an axe a saw a frying pan you
know some pretty basic stuff and then
they send them all drop them off all in
the woods with a few cameras and uh so
the people are actually alone there's
not a crew or anything and then you uh
basically live there as long as you can
you know and so the person that lasts
the longest you know once the second
place person Taps out they come and get
you and that and that individual wins so
it's a it's a pretty legit challenge you
know they they drop you off helicopter
flies out and you're not going to get
your next meal until you make it happen
so you have to figure out the shelter
you have to figure out the source of
food and then it gets colder and colder
cuz I guess they drop you out in a
moment where it's going into the winter
yeah they typically do it in temperate
colder climates things like that and
they start in you know September October
so time's ticking when they drop you off
and uh yeah the pressure's on you got
it's you know you get overwhelmed with
all the things you have to do right away
like oh man I'm not going to eat again
until I actually shoot or catch
something got to build a shelter it's
pretty overwhelming figure your whole
location out but it's interesting
because once you're there a little while
you kind of get into a well at least for
me it did there was like a week or maybe
not a week but that I was kind of a
little more annoyed with things you know
it's like oh my sight sucks sucks and
then and then you kind of accept it like
you know what it is what it is no Co no
amount of complaining is going to do
anybody any good so I'm just going to
make it happen and so then or you know
do my best to and then I felt like I got
in a Zone and I felt like I was right
back in kind of Siberia or in that head
space and I I found it actually really
enjoyed it i' had been a little bit out
of I guess you call it the game cuz I
had had uh child and and so when we had
our daughter we came back to the States
and then a bunch of s things happened
and I just ended up we didn't end up
going back to Russia so there' been a
couple years that I was just you know we
raising the little girl and boy then and
then so you've gotten a little soft so I
was like did I got a little soft to
F but then it was fun how like after
just some days there I was like oh man I
feel like I feel like I'm at home now
and then it was like you're kind of in
that flow State and it was actually
there's a few moments like when you left
the ladder up or with the moose that you
kind of screwed up a little bit oh yeah
how do you go from that moment of like
frustration to the moment of acceptance
I mean the more you put yourself in life
in positions that are kind of outside
your comfort zone or push your abilities
the more often you're going to screw up
and then yeah the more opportunity you
have to learn from that and then to be
honest it's kind of funny but you almost
get to a position where
you you don't feel that uncomfort it's
not unexpected you know you kind of
expect you're going to mess up here and
there you I remember particularly with
the um the Moose the first moose I saw I
had a great shot at it but I had a hard
time judging distance because it was in
a mud flat which means it's hard to it's
hard to tell yardage you know some
because you're usually typically going
by trees or markers be like Oh I'm
probably 30 yard away this was a giant
moose and he was 40 something yards away
and I estimated that he was 30 something
yards away so I was way off and shot and
Dro between his legs and then I realized
I had not grabbed my quiver so I only
had one shot and I just watched him turn
around and walk off but I was struck
initially with like I I actually noticed
how unmad I was I was like oh this is
actually I was like that was awesome
that was like seeing a dinosaur that was
really cool and then I was like oh what
an idiot how to miss but then I was like
but it made me that much more determined
to make it happen again it was like
okay nobody's going to make this happen
except myself you can't can't complain
it wouldn't have done me any good to go
back and mope about it and so then I was
like I had a thought I was like oh I
remember these Nate the native guys
telling me they used to like build these
giant fences and funnel game into
certain areas and stuff and I was like
man that's a lot of calories but I have
to make that happen again now so I like
kind of
went out there and tried that and that
was kind of a attempt at something too
it could have failed or not worked but
sure enough it worked and the
opportunity came again the Moose came
wanding along and I was able to get it
but being able to take failure as soon
as you can the better accept it and then
learn from it is kind of a muscle you
have to exercise a little bit well it's
interesting cuz in this case the cost of
failure is like you're not going to be
able to eat yeah that that was really I
mean the the most interesting thing
about that show was how high the stakes
felt because it didn't feel you know you
didn't tell yourself you're on a show at
least I didn't you just felt like it was
you're going to starve to death if you
don't make this happen and so the stakes
felt so high and and um it was an
interesting thing to tap into because I
mean so many of our ancestors probably
all just dealt with that on a regular
basis but it's something that we all all
the modern amenities and such and food
security that we don't deal with and uh
it was interesting to tap into what a
kind of a peak mental experience that is
when you really really need something to
survive and then it happens it's you
can't imagine I mean that's what our all
our dopamine and receptors are tuned for
that experience in particular so it was
yeah it was pretty awesome but the
pressure felt very on like I I always
felt the pressure of of providing or
starving and then there's a situation
when you left the ladder up right and
you needed fat and uh what is it the
Wolverine ate some of the fat right yeah
well it was when I got the Moose I was
so happy the most Joy I could almost
experience Max maxed out but I didn't
think I uh I didn't think I won at that
point I never thought like oh that's my
ticket to Victory I thought holy crap
it's going to be me against somebody
else that gets a moose now and we're
going to be here 6 eight months who
knows long and so I can't I can't be
here 6 eight months and still lose so
I've got to like I've got to outproduce
somebody else with a moose so I had all
that in my head and I already was of
course pretty thin and and so I was just
like man somebody else gets a moose I'm
still going to be behind and so
everything felt like precious to me and
I had found a plastic jug and I put a
whole bunch of the moose's fat in this
plastic jug and set it up on a little
shelf I thought you know what if a bear
comes I'll probably hear it and I'll
come out and be able to shoot it so I
went to sleep and I woke up the next
morning and I went out and I was like
where's that jug started and then I was
like wait a second what are all these
prints and I started looking around and
it took a second to dawn on me because I
haven't interacted with wol Wolverines
very often in life and uh I was like oh
those are Wolverine tracks and he was
just so much sneakier than bear would
have been or something so it kind of
surprised me and he took off with that
jug of fat and so then I went from
feeling pretty good about myself to like
now I'm losing again against whoever you
know this other person is with a moose
so I I again kind of the pressure came
back to Oh no I got to produce again you
know it wasn't the end of the world and
I think they may have exaggerated a
little bit how little fat I had left you
know I still had there a moose has a lot
of fat but it did make me feel like I
was at a disadvantage again and so yeah
that was pretty that was pretty intense
cuz those Wolverines they're bold little
animals and they and he was basically
saying No this is is my
moose and I had to counter his claims
well they yeah they're really really
smart they figure out a way to get to
places really effectively Wolverines are
like fascinating in that way uh so let's
go to that happy moment the Moose yeah
you are the first and one of the only
contestants to have ever killed a moose
on the show a big game animal with a bow
and arrow so this is date 20 so can you
take me through the kill yeah so I had
missed one and I just decided I'm not
here to starve I'm here to like try to
become sustainable so I was like I don't
care if it's a risk I'm going to build
that fence I built it I would just pick
berries and call Moose every you know
every day and it was actually really
Pleasant just sit in a berry patch and
call
Moose but then I also had this whole
trap and snare lines set out everywhere
so I had all these I was getting rabbits
um but I and I was actually taking a
rabbit out of a snare when I heard a
Clank cuz I had set up kind of an alarm
system with with string and cans so it's
a brilliant idea way yeah it's another
thing that could have not worked but it
worked and it came through and I was
like oh I heard the cans clink and I was
like no way and so I ran over I didn't
know what it was exactly but something
was coming along the fence and I ran
over and jumped in the bush next to the
funnel exit on the fence and sure enough
the Big Moose came running up and you
know your gets pounding like crazy
you're like no way no way I probably
could have waited a little longer and
had a perfect broadside shot but I took
the shot when he was uh he was he was
pretty close like 24 yards but he was
quartering towards me which makes it a
little harder to make a a perfect Kill
Shot you know and so I hit it and it
took off running and I just thought you
know I was super excited I couldn't
believe I actually you know I was like
oh my gosh I got the Boost I think that
was a really good shot you get all
excited but then it plays back in your
head and particularly when you're first
learning to hunt there's always an
animal that gets away you know and you
like make a bad decision or not a great
shot or something and it's just it's
just part of it and so of course you're
like I'm not going to be satisfied until
I see this thing so I followed the blood
trail a little while and I saw some
bubbly blood which meant it was hitting
the lungs which meant it's not going to
live you know you'll get it and so as
long as you don't mess it up and so I
went back to my shelter and waited an
hour I skinned to that rabbit that had
caught and then super nervous the
slowest hour I
ever and then I followed it along ended
up losing the blood trail I was like no
no and then I was like well if there's
no blood I'm just going to follow the
path that I would go if I was a moose
you know like the least resistance
through the woods so I followed kind of
along the shore there and enough I saw
him up there I was like you know I was
so excited lay down but uh but he hadn't
died yet and so he just sat there and
and he would stand up and I would just
like no no no no and he would lay back
down like yes and then he would stand up
no and it was like that for you know a
couple hours that took him and then
finally at one point I you know and a
lot of people have asked like why
wouldn't you go finish it off um so when
an animal like that gets hit it had no
idea what hit it you know just all of a
sudden it's like ah something got it and
it ran off and it lays down and it's
actually fairly calm and it doesn't
really know what's going on and if you
can leave it in that state it'll kind of
just bleed out and as as peacefully as
possible um if you go chase after it
that's when you lose an animal because
as soon as it knows it's being hunted
you know it gets panicked adrenaline and
it can just run and run and run and
you'll never find it so I didn't want it
to see me I knew if I tried to get it
with another Arrow there's a chance I
could have finished it off but there's
also a not bad chance that it would see
me take off or even attack cuz moose can
be a little dangerous and so uh I just
chose to wait it out and at one point it
stood up and fell over and I could tell
it had died and walked over like you
actually touch it and you're just like
who no way like that whole burden of
weeks of you're gonna starve you're
gonna starve and it got rid of that
demon to be honest it's one of the
happiest moments of my life it's really
hard to replicate that Joy because it it
was just so so real you're so directly
connected to your needs it's all so
simple you know it was it was a peak
experience for sure and will you worried
that it would take many more hours and
it would take it into the night yeah I
was I mean until you actually have your
hands on it I was worried the whole time
it's a pretty nerve-wracking period
there between when you get it and when
you actually recover the animal get your
hands on it so it took longer than I
wanted but I finally got it can you
actually speak to the the kill shot
itself just for people who don't hunt
yeah like what it takes to stay calm to
to to not freak out too much to like
wait but not wa too long yeah yeah I
mean another thing about hunting is that
for every animal you get you probably
don't get you know nine or 10 that that
just turned the wrong way when you were
drawn back or went way behind a tree or
you never had a clean shot or whatever
it is and so um every time you can see a
moment coming you know your heart really
starts beating and you have to like
breathe through it I can almost you know
you almost feel the nervousness of it
and then uh and then you just try to
stay calm you know like whatever you do
just try to stay calm wait for it to
come up drop back you you've practice
shooting a lot so you have like kind of
a technique like I'm going to go back
touch my face draw my elbow tight and
then the arrow is going to let loose a
muscle memory most it's kind of muscle
memory you have a little trigger like
draw That Elbow tight and then and then
uh then it happens and then you just
watch the Arrow and see where it goes
now with the animal you know you try to
do it ethically that is like make as
good of a shot as you can make sure it
is either hit in the heart or both lungs
and when that happens it's a pretty
quick death which is death is a part of
life and but honestly for a wild animal
that's probably the best way to go they
could they could have um now when a
animal's kind of walking towards you if
it's walking towards you but not
directly towards you that's what you
call quartering towards you you can
picture it's actually pretty difficult
to hit both lungs because the shoulder
blade and all that bone is in the way so
you want to so you have to make a
perfect shot to get them both and to be
honest when I took my shot I was a
couple inches or a few inches right and
so it went went through through the
first lung and then it sunk the arrow
all the way into the moose and but it
didn't it allowed that second lung to
stay breathing which which meant the
Moose stayed alive longer what's your
relationship with the animal in a
situation like that you said death is a
part of yeah that's an interesting
thought because no matter what your
relationship
to however you choose to go through life
whether you know whatever you eat
whatever you do
um death is a part of life you know like
every animal that's out there is living
off of a dead even plants you know it's
all it's all we're all part of this
ecosystem I think it's really easy in a
particularly in an urban environment but
anywhere to think that we're separate
from the ecosystem but we are very much
a part of it um whether it be you know
farming requires you know all this
habitat to be turned into growing
soybeans and and when you get the plows
and the combines you know you're losing
all kinds of different animals and all
kind of potential
habitat this so it's not costree and so
when you realize that then you want to
produce the food and the things you
need uh in an ethical manner so I uh so
for me
hunting plays a really major role in
that like I literally know how many
animals a year it takes to feed my
family and myself I actually know the
exact number and it's like and I know
what the cost of that is and I'm aware
of it because I'm out in the woods and I
see see these like beautiful elk and
moose and I I really love the species
love the animals but there is a fact
that one of those individuals you know
is going to have to feed me and and
particularly like on aan it was very
heightened that experience so I shot
that one animal and I was so so thankful
you know that I wanted to give that big
guy a hug and like hey sorry it was you
but yeah had to be somebody yeah there's
that there's that picture you just
almost hugging it right totally and you
you can also think about the the
calories the the protein the fat all of
that that that comes from that that will
feed you right you're so grateful for it
like the the Gratitude is is like you
know definitely there what about the bow
and arrow perspective well when you hunt
with a bow you just get so much more up
close to the animals you know you you
can't just get it from 600 yards away
you actually have to sneak in within 30
or so yards and uh when you do that the
experiences you have are just they're
way more dragged out so you know your
heart's beating longer you have to
control your nerves longer more often
than not it doesn't go your way and the
thing gets away and you know you've been
hiking around in the woods for a week
and then your opportunity arises and
floats
away like no and then but at the same
time that's the only time uh when you
like really have those interactions with
the animals where you got this bugling
bull you know like tearing at the trees
right in front of you and other cow elk
and animals running around you know you
get you get you end up
having really uh I don't know D say
intimate experiences with the animal
just because because you're in it you're
kind of in its world you're playing its
game it has its senses to defend itself
and you have your wit to try to to get
over those and it really becomes
you know it's not easy they're not it
becomes kind of that chess game and
those prey animals are always tuned in
it's you know slightest stick they
looking for wolves or for whatever it is
so um there's something really pure and
fun about it you know I will say there
is a aspect that is fun there's no
denying it it's like how
we're you know people have been hunting
forever and and uh I think it speaks to
that part of us somehow but
and I think bow hunting is probably the
most pure form of it and that you get
those experiences more often than with a
rifle so I I don't know I I enjoy it a
lot and and the way they do regulations
and such um kind of the best times to
hunt are usually allowed for bow because
they're trying to you know keep it fair
for the animal and such so so the
distance the close distance makes you
more in touch with sort of uh the the
Natural Way of the predator and prey and
you're just one you're one of the
Predators mhm where you have to be
clever you have to be quiet you have to
be calm you have to all of that Y and
the full Challenge and the luck involved
in catching the same thing as the
Predators do exactly how many times do
they snap a stick and watch them run off
and like darn my stock was failed or you
know so yeah you're just in that in that
ecosystem how'd you learn to to shoot
the bow yeah I was I didn't grow up
hunting I grew up in a area that a lot
of people hunted but my dad wasn't
really into it and so I never got into
it until until I lived in Russia with
the natives it was just such a part of
everything we did and a part of our life
that when I came back I got a bow and I
started doing archery in Virginia they
had it was a pretty easy way to hunt cuz
the deer were overpopulated and you
could get these Urban Archer permits so
You' go out and you know every couple
days you'd have an opportunity to shoot
a a deer that they needed population
control and so there were a lot of them
and it gave you a lot of opportunities
to learn quickly so that's what got me
into it and then I found I really
enjoyed it do you practice with the with
the Target also or just practice out oh
no I would definitely practice with the
target a lot you want to again you kind
of have an obligation to do your best
cuz you don't want to be flinging arrows
into like the leg of an animal and it's
a cool way h hly to provide quality meat
for the family you know it's all raised
naturally and wild and free until you
bring it home into the freezer so so if
we step back uh what are the 10 items
you brought and what's actually the
challenge of figuring out which items to
bring yeah the challenge is that you
don't exactly know what your sight
opportunities are going to be so you
don't really know should I bring a
fishing net am I going to even have a
spot to net or not and things like that
I brought a axe a saw um Leatherman Wave
uh Pharaoh Rod is like a Mak Sparks to
start a fire a frying pan a sleeping
bag a fishing kit a bow and arrow
trapping wire and
paracord and so those are my 10 items is
any uh any regrets any no major regrets
I I took I took the saw kind of I
thought it would be more of a Gallery
saver then I I didn't really need it I
in hindsight if I was doing you know
season seven instead of six and got to
watch I would have taken the the net cuz
I I just planned to make a net but I
would have rather just had two Nets
brought one and left the saw because in
the Northern woods in particular every
tree is you know the size of your arm or
leg you can chop it down with an ax and
a couple swings yeah yeah you don't
really need the saw um and so it was
handy at times and useful but I think it
was my
if I had to do nine items I would have
been just fine without the saw so two
nests would just expand your uh food
Gathering
potential and then the in terms of
trapping you were okay with just the
little you brought the snare wire was
good um I ran some you know I put out I
used all my snare wire I ran trap line
which is just a series of traps through
the woods and brush every place you see
sign put a snare put a little Mark on
the tree so I knew where that snare was
and just make these paths through the
woods and I put out you know I don't
know how many 150 200 snares so every
day I'd get a rabbit or two out of them
and then so I had a lot of rabbits but
uh once I got the Moose I actually took
all those snares down because I didn't
want to catch anything needlessly and oh
you come to find out you can't live off
of rabbits man cannot live off a rabbit
alone it turns out so you set up a huge
number of traps mhm you were also
fishing and then always on the lookout
for uh moose yeah so like what what's in
terms of survival if you were to do it
over again over and over and over and
over like how do
you um maximize your chance of having
enough food to survive for a long time
you have to be you have to be really
adaptable because everything's going to
it's always going to look different your
situation your location I actually had a
what I thought was a pretty good plan
going into Al loan and it just the you
know the location didn't allow for what
I thought it would what was the plan
well I thought I would just catch a
bunch of fish cuz I'm on a really good
fishing lake I catch a whole bunch of
fish and let them rot for a little while
and then just drag them all through the
woods into a big pile and then hunt a
bear on that Big Fish
pile that was the plan and I thought but
when I got there uh for one I had a hard
time catching fish off the bat you know
it they didn't come like I was hoping
and then for for two it had burned prior
so there were no berries and so there
were very few berries which meant there
weren't grous there weren't be they
weren you know they had all gone to
other places where the berries were and
so what I had grown accustomed to kind
of relying on in Siberia wasn't there
there you know so in in Russia which was
a similar environment it was just Grouse
and berries and fish and some berries
and fish and then occasionally you know
you get a moose or something but I had
to reassess which was part of me being
grumpy at the start like this place
sex and then and then once I reassessed
and and and you know right away I saw
that there were moose tracks and such so
I just started a plan for that I moved
my uh camp in a into a area that was as
removed as I could be from where all the
action is where the tracks were so that
I wasn't disturbing animal patterns I
made sure the wind the predominant wind
was blowing out my scent to Sea and or
you know to the water and then really to
be honest if you want to actually
survive somewhere is different than
alone but you do have to be active and
it has to you're going to have to you're
not going to live you're not going to be
sustainable by you know starving it out
youd have to Fig unlock the key that is
sustainability and I think there's a lot
of areas that still have that potential
but you have to figure out what it is
it's usually going to be a combination
of fishing you know trapping and then
hunting and then once you have some the
fishing and trapping will get you until
you have some success hunting and then
that'll buy you three or four months of
time to continue another you know to
keep hunting again and you just have to
roll off of that but every you know
depends on where you are what
opportunities are there so okay so
that's the process fishing and trapping
until you're successful hunting and then
the successful hunt uh buys you some
more time mhm right right just go year
and then you just go re like that and
that's how people did it forever the
pressure I noticed it you know with that
you got that moose and then you're happy
for a week or so and then you start to
be like you know this is finite I'm GNA
have to do this again and you imagine if
you had a family that was going to
starve if you weren't successful you
know this next time and there just
always that pressure you know made me
really like appreciate the amount of
what people had to deal with well in
terms of being active like so you have
to do stuff all all day so you get up so
and planning MH like what am I going to
in the in the midst of the frustration
you have to figure out like what's
what's the strategy like how do you put
up all the traps what's is that a
decision like you know most people like
sit at their desk and have like a
calendar what are you like figuring out
like one thing about Wilderness life in
general is it's remarkably less
scheduled than anything we deal with
schedules are fairly unique to the
modern context you'd wake up and you
just sort of you have a you know
Confluence of things you want to do
things you need to do things you should
do and you just kind of tackle them as
you see fit as it flows in you know so
and that's actually one of the things
that you people really that I really
appreciate about that lifestyle is it
really is you're kind of in that flow
and so I'd wake up and be like H maybe
I'll go fishing and then I'll wander
over and fish and then I'd be like I'm
going to go check the Trap line add
every day if I add five or 10
snares you know you're constantly adding
to your productive potential and then uh
but nothing's really scheduled you're
just kind of flying by the seat of your
pants but then there's a lot of instinct
that's already loaded in so much like
you already just like wisdom from all
the times you've had to do it before
you're just actually operating a lot on
Instinct like you said where to find to
place a shelter like how hard is that
calculation where to place the shelter
if you're like dropped off and this is
all new to you of course all those
things are going to be things you have
to really think through and plan when
you're thinking about a shelter you have
to think of oh here's a nice flat spot
you know that's a good place but also is
there firewood nearby and if I'm going
to be here for months is there enough
firewood that I'm not going to be
walking a half a mile to get a dry piece
of wood is the water nearby is there is
it is it somewhat open but also
protected from the elements cuz
sometimes you get a beautiful spot it is
great on a calm day and then wind comes
like and so there's all these factors
you know even down to taking in what
game is doing in the area also and how
that relates to where your shelter is
you said you have to consider where the
action will be and you want to be away
from the action but close enough to it
to see it yeah you want to be yeah right
and so uh ideally you know it depends
you're always going to make give and
takes and one thing with shelters and
location selection of stuff it's another
thing you just have to trust your
ability to adapt in the situation
because you everybody has a particular
you know you got an idea of a shelter
you're going to build but then you get
there and maybe there's a good Cliff
that you can incorporate you know or May
and then you just become creative and
that's a really fun process too to just
allow your creativity to try to flourish
in that what kind of shelters are there
there's all kinds of philosophies on
shelters which is fun uh people it's fun
to see people try different things mine
was fairly basic for the simple reason
that I had lived you know Winters
through Winters in Siberia in a teepee
so I knew I didn't need like anything
too robust as long as I had calories I'd
be warm and I wasn't particularly
worried about the cold um but you'll see
so I kept my shelter really pretty
simple with idea that I built a simple
A-frame type shelter and then most of my
energy is going to be focused on getting
calories and then of course there's
always going to be downtime and in that
downtime I can tweak modify improve my
shelter and that'll just be a con
process that by the by the time you're
there a few months you'll have all the
Kinks worked out it'll be a really nice
little setup but you don't have to start
with that necessarily because you got
other needs you got to focus on that
said you'll see a lot of people on a
loan that really focus on you know
building the Log Cabin because they want
to be secure or uh incorporating you
know whatever the Earth has around
whether it be rocks or whether it be
digg in a hole you know and we've seen
some really cool shelters and I I I'm
not you knock it everybody's got there's
all Different Strokes for different
folks but I in my particular idea was to
keep it fairly simple improve it with
time but spend most of my energy you
know the shelter you really need to
think about it can't be Smoky because
that'll be miserable but it is nice to
have a fire inside so you need to have a
fire inside that's not going to be
dangerous and uh smoke free and then
also airtight because you're never going
to have a warm shelter out there because
you don't have seals and things like
that but as long as the air is not
moving through it you can have a warm
enough shelter with a fire with a fire
and dryer socks and stuff how do you get
the smoke out of the shelter if you have
good clay and mud and rock you can build
yourself a fireplace which is
surprisingly not that hard you know you
just oh really yeah it's fun thing to do
it works well you know take a little
hole start stacking rocks around it make
it make sure it's opening and it
actually works you know um so that's not
as hard as you might think
um for me where I was I I kind of came
up with it as I was there with my
A-frame you know I I hadn't built an
A-frame shelter like that before and so
when I built it and then I had put a
bunch of tin cans in the ground so that
air would get the fire so it was fed by
air which helps create a draft um but
but I realized in an A-frame it really
doesn't the smoke doesn't go out very
well even if you leave a hole at the top
it like collects and Billows back down
so then I uh cut some of my tarp and
made this and cut a hole in the in the
A-frame and then I made like a hood vent
that I could pull down and catch the
smoke with and so while the fire was
going it would just bow out the hood
vent and then when it was done burning
and it was just hot cold so I could
close it seal it up and keep the heat in
so it actually worked pretty well so
start with something that kind of works
and then keep improving yeah exactly I
was wondering I mean the the the log cap
mhm it feels like that's a thing that
takes a huge amount of work before work
the difference between a log cabin and a
warm log cabin is like an immense amount
of work and all the chinking and all the
door ceiling and you know the chimney
has to be anyway so otherwise it's just
going to be the same ambient temperature
as outside so uh I don't think alone's
the proper context for a log cabin I
think like a log cabin's great in as a
hunting cabin as you know like you're
have something for years but in a 3 six
month scenario I don't know that it's
worth the calorie expenditure and it is
a lot of calories but that's an
interesting sort of metaphor of just
like get something that works you see a
lot a lot of this with companies like
successful companies they you know get a
prototype get a system that's working
and improve fast in response to the
conditions to the environment yeah
because it's constantly changing yeah
and you end up being a lot better if
you're able to learn how to respond
quickly uh versus like having a big plan
that takes a huge amount of time to to
accomplish that's right and forcing that
through the pipeline whether or not it
fits yeah can you just speak to like the
place you were the the Canadian Arctic
it looked cold yeah we were right near
the Arctic Circle I don't know it was
like 60 kilometers south of the Arctic
Circle so uh it was it's a really cool
area really remote thousands of little
Lakes you know when you fly over you're
just like man it's incredible there must
be so many of those lakes that people
haven't been to you know it really was a
neat area really remote and for the
show's purpose I think it was perfect
because it did have enough game and
enough different Avenues forward that I
think it really did reward activity so I
think uh but it's a special place it was
uh Den there's the tribe that lived
there the den people which interestingly
enough here's a side note when I was in
Siberia I floated down this river called
the Pud Tusa and you get to this Village
called sulami and there's these KET
people they're called and there's only
600 of them left but in this is in the
middle of Siberia not in like the
Pacific coast but their language is
related to The Den people and so somehow
you know that connection was there
thousands of years ago super interesting
but yeah so language travels somehow
right and the remnant stayed back there
it's very interesting that Think Through
History yeah with within language it
contains a history of a peoples and it's
interesting how that evolves over time
and how Wars tell the story like
language tells the story of conflict and
conflict shaped language and we get we
get the result of that right so
fascinating and the barriers that
language creates is also the thing that
leads to Wars and misunderstandings and
all this kind of stuff it's a
fascinating tension uh but it got cold
there right it got real cold yeah I mean
I think I don't know what that I didn't
have a thermometer but I imagine it
probably got
to30 at the most you know like it might
have gotten it would have definitely
gotten colder had we stayed longer but
uh yeah I to be honest I I was I never
felt cold out there I was pretty I had
that one pretty dialed in and once you
have calories you can stay warm you can
stay active you can you know you got to
dress warm you know you don't never let
there's a good one if you're in the cold
never let yourself get too cold because
what happens is you'll stop feeling
what's cold and then frostbite and then
issues and then it's really hard to warm
back up so every I it was so annoying
I'd be out going to ice fish or
something and then I would just notice
that my feet are cold and you're just
like ah dang it I just turn around go
back start a fire dry my boots out make
sure my feet are warm and then go again
I wouldn't ignore that you know also you
want to be able to feel the cold yeah
you want to make sure you're still
feeling things and that you're not
toughen through it because you can't
really tough through the cold it'll just
get you so what's your relationship with
the cold um psychologically
physically uh it's interesting oh I
actually there's a some part of it that
really makes you feel alive you know I'm
imagine you know sometime in Austin here
you come go out and it's hot and sweaty
and you're like you get that kind of
kind of saps you there's something about
that brisk cold that hits your face that
you're like wakes you up makes you feel
really alive engaged you know it feels
like the margins of air are smaller so
you're alert and engaged a little more
there is something that's a little bit
lifegiving just because you feel on an
edge you're walk you're on this Edge but
you have to be alert because even you
know some of the natives I lived with
the lady had face issues because she let
her head get cold when they're on a
snowmobile hat was up too high you know
that little mistake and then it just
freezes this part of your forehead and
then the nerves go and then you got
issues one just h wasn't high enough so
you got kind of got to be dialed in on
stuff well there's a psychological
element to just I mean it's
unpleasant if I were to think of what
kind of unpleasant would I
Choose You Know fasting for a long
periods of time going without food in a
warm environment is way more pleasant
than uh being fed in a c yeah exactly
like if you were to choose I choose the
opposite oh yeah okay well there you go
I wonder if
that's I if you're born with that or if
that's developed maybe your time in
Siberia like you or or do you gravitate
towards I I wonder what that is cuz I
really don't like survival in the cold I
think a little bit of it is learned you
like almost learned not you learn not to
fear it you learn to kind of appreciate
it and a big part of that is I mean to
be honest it's like dressing warm being
in good it's not that you know there's
no secrets to that it's you just can't
beat the cult so you just need to dress
warm the na you know all that fur all
that stuff and then all of a sudden you
have your little Refuge have a nice warm
fire gun and your teepee you know and
then you I bet you you could learn to
appreciate it yeah I think some of it is
just opening yourself up to the
possibility that there's something
enjoyable about it like here I I run in
Austin all the time and like 100 degree
heat uhuh and I go out there with a
smile on my face and like and learn to
enjoy it oh yeah and so you're just like
I look kind of like you doing the cold
just I don't think I enjoy the heat but
you just allow yourself to enjoy yeah
yeah yeah I I do feel that way I mean I
I don't mind the heat that much but I I
think you could get to the place where
you appreciated the cold it's probably
just a lack of it's kind of scary when
you haven't done it and you don't know
what you're doing and you go out and you
feel cold it's like not fun but I bet
you could you'd enjoy it you'll have to
come out some sometimes
100% I mean you're right it does make
you feel alive that it like maybe that's
the thing that I struggle with is the
time passes slower cuz it does make you
feel alive you get to feel time but then
the flip side of that is you get to feel
every moment and you get to feel alive
in every moment so that it's it's both
scary when you're in experienced and and
beautiful when you are experienced MH
were there times when you got hungry I
got got shot a rabbit on day one and I
snared a couple rabbits on day two and
then more and more as the time went so I
actually did pretty well on the food
front uh the other thing is when you
have all those berries around and stuff
you do have an ability to like fill your
stomach and so you don't really notice
if you're getting thinner or if you're
losing weight um so I can say on alone I
was not that hungry I've definitely been
really hungry in Russia there were times
when when I lost a lot of weight Ian I
lost a lot more weight in Siberia than I
did on Al times so okay we'll have to
talk about it so you uh caught a fish
you caught a couple I think I caught
like 13 or so they didn't show a lot of
them you caught 13 fish 13 of those big
fish to well I caught a couple that were
small this is like a meme of this yeah
it was a you're a perfect example of a
person who was thriving surviving I was
thought you know this this is in the in
hindsight again when I was out there I
never let myself think you might win and
I just was going to be out there as long
as I could and tried to remain
pessimistic about no but then the uh but
there I remember a thought that I was
like I wonder if they're going to be
able to make this look hard you know I
did have that thought at one point and
CU it went pretty well and I was
definitely was it was hard
psychologically because I didn't know
when it was going to end like I thought
this could go you know like I said 6
months could go go eight months a year
and then you start to C you know a two
and a three-year-old and you start to
weigh in the is it worth it if it goes a
year and it's not worth it if it goes
eight months and I still lose so I feel
like I had this pressure and it was
psychologically difficult for that
reason
physically I wasn't too bad this is uh
off mic we're talking about Gordon Ryan
competing in in Jiu-Jitsu and maybe
that's the challenge he also has to face
is to make things look
hard cuz there's he's so dominant in the
sport
that in terms of the drama and the
entertainment of the of the sport in
this case of survival it has to be
difficult you know and I'll add that for
sure though that it's it's the woods
it's nature you never know how it's
going to go you know what I mean it's
like every time you're out there it's a
different scenario so yeah whatever
Hallelujah it went well so you uh you
won after 77 days
how long do you think you could have
lasted when I left I weighed what I do
right now so I just weighed my normal
weight I had you know a couple hundred
pounds of moose I had at least you know
100 pounds of fish I had you know a pile
of rabbits yeah a wolverine you know I
had all this stuff and I know I hadn't
gotten cold yet I I just thought but in
my head I thought if I get today 130 or
even if someone else has big game I had
a pretty good idea they might quit
because it would be long cold dark days
and how miserable is that just it's so
boring it's freezing and and so I
thought the only time I thought I could
think about winning is one I got to day
130 or 40 and I definitely had that um
with what I had uh now maybe I would
have got you know I probably would have
gotten more I had caught a that big 20
something pound Pike on the last day I
was there maybe catch some more of those
you know I don't you know and I don't
know like I don't know how many calories
I had stored but I had a lot and so how
long would that have lasted me assuming
I didn't get anything else it definitely
would have I definitely would have
reached my goal of 130 or 40 days and
then after that I thought we were just
going to push into the who you know then
it's just to see how much who has what
reserves and we'll go as far as we can
and that would get me through January
into February and I just thought man
that's going to be miserable for people
and you were like I can last through and
I knew do it yeah uh what what aspect of
that is miserable the hardest thing for
me would have been the boredom um
because it's hard to it's hard to stay
busy when it's all dark out when the ice
is you know three four foot thick you
can't fish and
um I just think I think it would have
just been really boring it would had to
been a real zen master to push through
it but because I had experienced it to
some degree I knew I could and then I
think things that might you know you
start thinking about family and this and
that and those situations and I just
knew that those because I'd gone to all
these trips to Russia for a year at a
time the time context was a little
broader for me than I think for some
people because I I knew I could be gone
for a year and come back catch up with
my loved ones you know bring what I got
back whether that be psychological
whatever it is and we'd all enrich each
other and and once it's in hindsight
that year would have been like that
talking about it so I had that
perspective and it so I knew I wasn't
going to tap for any other reason other
than running out of food someday so that
was my stressor and then see you're able
to given the boredom given the
loneliness kind of zoom
out and accept the passing of time just
let it pass you know for me I'm an
fairly act I like to be active and so I
would try to think of creative ways to
keep my brain busy you know we saw the
like dumb rabbit for skit what but then
I did a whole bunch of like elaborate
Normandy reinvasion you knowas
reenactments and stuff like there was
like a there was a every day I would
think of I got to think of something to
make me laugh you know and then do some
stupid skit and then that would be that
would fill a couple hours of my time and
then I'd spend an hour two couple few
hours fishing and then you spend few
hours you know whatever you're doing
would you do that without a camera yeah
oh no the the the skits funny question
that's a good question I don't know I
actually don't know that uh I will say
that was the one of the advantages of
being on the show versus uh in Siberia
so no because I didn't in Siberia just
do skits by myself but I didn't film it
and so it was it was quite nice to have
this camera that made you feel like you
weren't quite as alone as if you were
just in the Woods by yourself and I
think it for me I was able to it's a it
was a pain it was part of the cause of
me missing that moose you know there's
issues with it but I just chose to look
at it as like this is an awesome
opportunity to share with people a part
of me that most people don't get to see
you know so that was I just chose to
look at it that way and it was an
advantage because you could do stuff
like that I think there's actual power
to doing this kind of documenting like
talking to a camera or an audio recorder
like that that's an actual tool in
survival I I had a little bit of an
experience being out alone in the jungle
and just being able to talk to a thing
mhm is much less lonely it is it really
is it's a that's can be a powerful tool
just sharing your experience I had the I
definitely had the thought so going back
to your earlier comment but I definitely
had the thought if I knew I was the last
person on Earth I wouldn't even bother
like I wouldn't do that like I would
just probably not I just give up I'm
sure because even if I had a bunch of
food and this and that but because I
knew knew you're you know you're a part
you're sharing it gives you a lot of
strength to go through and and having
that camera just as makes it that much
more Vivid because you know you're not
just going to be sharing a vague memory
but an actual experience I think if
you're the last person on Earth you
would actually convince yourself first
of all you don't know for sure last
there's always going to be hope dies
last yeah hope hope really do does die
you really don't know you really you
really hope to find I mean if you're
like an apocal happens MH MH I think
your whole life will become about
finding the other person it would be and
there's a CH I mean I I'm I guess I'm
saying if you knew you were for some
reason knew you were the last I wonder
if you would I wonder if you that that
was a thought I had if I knew I was the
last person like cuz I here I was having
a good time having fun fishing plenty of
food but like if I knew I was the last
person on Earth I don't know that I
would even bother but now if that was
for real would I bother that's the
question no no I think if you knew if
somebody some some way you knew for sure
I think your mind will start doubting it
that whoever told you you're the last
person
whatever was lying right right the power
of Hope might be
more than I accounted for in that
situation also uh you might if you are
indee