Kind: captions
Language: en
I hope the key of airport will open soon
then it will it will be easier to fly in
yes I think that the war will end and
president
Trump may be the first leader to travel
here by airplane I think it would be it
would be symbolic by airplane again
January 25th around that date right
flying in meeting the Air Force One that
would be cool there is a perception of
corruption uh people like Donald Trump
and Elon Musk really
care uh about fighting
corruption uh what can you say to them
to gain their trust that the money is
going towards this fight for Freedom
towards the war effort in most cases we
did not receive money we received
weapons and where we saw risks that
something could be happening with
weapons we crack down hard on everyone
and believe me this is not only about
Ukraine everywhere along the supply
chain there are some or other people and
companies who want to make money they
try to make money on the war we did not
profit from the war if we caught someone
believe me we crack down hard on them
and and we did that we did that and we
will continue to do so because because
to this day when someone says that
Ukraine was selling weapons and by the
way Russia was the one pushing this
narrative we always responded our
soldiers would kill kill such people
with their own hands without any trial
do you honestly think anyone could steal
weapons by the truckload when we
ourselves don't have enough on the front
lines and yet we have to provide proof
to defend ourselves because when there's
an abundance of such
misinformation distrust starts to
grow and you're right people listen to
various media Outlets see this and lose
faith in you in the end you lose trust
and with it you lose
support therefore believe me we are
fighting more against disinformation
than against particular cases although I
still emphasize once again at the
everyday level such things are still
important we catch these these people
and we fight
them as if Putin wants to sit down and
talk but Ukraine does not
this is not true I think that yes he is
in fact ready to talk did you talk to
him on the phone or what how do you
normally talk to him I don't know
normally by the Sea the same as with you
he invites you to the sea with me just
the three of us no no one of us may
drown who are you good at swimming yes I
am a good swimmer you're a good swimmer
well if you think that the president of
a
country is completely crazy it is really
hard to come to to an agreement with him
you have to look at him as a serious
person who loves his country and loves
the people in his country and he
conducts yes destructive military AC who
are you talking about now who loves his
country Putin do you think he doesn't
love his
country no what is his country he
happened to consider Ukraine his country
what is his country when do you think
there will be presidential elections in
Ukraine the following is a conversation
with Vladimir zalinski the president of
Ukraine it was an intense raw and
heartfelt conversation my goal for which
was to understand and to do all I can to
push for
peace please allow me to say a few words
first about language then about the
president and finally about history
please skip ahead straight to our
conversation if you like we spoke in a
mix of languages continuously switching
from Ukrainian to Russian to English so
uh The Interpreter was barely hanging on
it was indeed in many ways a wild ride
of a conversation as the president said
the first of many language like many
other things in a time of war is a big
deal we had a choice speaking Russian
Ukrainian or English the president does
speak some English but but he's far from
fluent in it and I sadly don't speak
Ukrainian yet so Russian is the only
common language we are both fluent in in
case you don't know the Russian language
is one that the president speaks
fluently and was his primary language
for most of his life it's the language I
also speak fluently to the degree I
speak any language fluently as does a
large fraction of the Ukrainian
population so the most dynamic and Power
ful conversation between us would be in
Russian without an interpreter who in
this case added about 2 to three second
delay and frankly translated partially
and poorly for me at least taking away
my ability to feel the humor the wit the
Brilliance the pain the anger the
humanity of the person sitting before me
that I could clearly feel when he was
speaking fluently in the language I
understand Russian but all that that
said war changes everything the
Ukrainian language has become a symbol
of the Ukrainian people's fight for
freedom and
Independence so we had a difficult
choice of three languages and faced with
that choice we said yes to all three to
the uh consternation and dismay of the
translators we make captions and uh
voice over audio tracks available in
English UK Ukrainian and Russian so you
can listen either to a version that is
all one language or to the original
mixed language version with subtitles in
your preferred language the default is
English over dub on YouTube you can
switch between language audio tracks by
clicking the settings gear icon then
clicking audio track and then selecting
the language you prefer English
Ukrainian Russian to listen to the
original mixed language version please
select the English UK audio
track big thank you to L labs for their
help with overdubbing using a mix of AI
and humans we will continue to explore
how to break down the barriers that
language creates with AI and otherwise
this is a difficult but important
Endeavor language after all is much more
than a cold sequence of facts and logic
statements there are words
when spoken in the right sequence and at
the right time they can shake the world
and turn the ties of history that can
start and end
Wars great leaders can find those words
and great translators can help these
words reverberate to the outskirts of a
divided
civilization on another note let me say
that president zalinski is a truly
remarkable person and a historic
figure I say this as somebody who deeply
understands the geopolitical complexity
and history of the region I am from this
region my parents were both born in
Ukraine Kev and harv both my
grandfathers
too I was born in Tajikistan and lived
for a time there then in Kiev then
Moscow then United
States and while I am now for almost 30
years and to the the day I die I am a
proud American my family Roots grow deep
in the soil of Nations that comprised
the Soviet Union including Ukraine
Russia bellarus and Tajikistan I've
gotten to know and have spoken for hours
with members of the president's team and
people close to him I spoke to hundreds
of ukrainians since 2022 including
solders civilians politicians artists
religious leaders journalists economists
historians and
technologists I've listened to hundreds
of hours of programs that both support
and criticize the president in Ukraine
in Russia in the United States I've read
countless books about this war and the
long Arc of history that led up to it if
forc to recommend too at this moment I
would say the rousi Ukrainian War by
sirii and the showman by Simon Schuster
which is uh a good personal behind the
scenes biography of the president
focused on 2022 but there are many many
more this is why I can comfortably say
that he is a truly singular and
remarkable human being it was an honor
and pleasure to talk with him on and off
the
mic now it is true that I plan to travel
to Moscow and to speak with President
Vladimir Putin and I hope to be back in
Kiev as well as president zinski said
this was our first of many more meetings
in all these cases I seek to do my small
part in pushing for peace and in doing
all this I'm deeply grateful for the
trust people have given me on all
sides for the people attacking me
sometimes lying about me for the critics
in the stands chanting the latest
slogans of the massan machine like the
sheep and Animal Farm I love you too and
I assure you that drawing lines between
Good and Evil on a world map is much
easier than seeing that line between
good and evil in every human being
including you and
me this is what I try to do I'm simply a
human being who seeks to find and
surface the humanity in others and as
I've said no amount of money Fame power
access can buy my opinion or my
Integrity now finally please allow me to
briefly overview some history to give
background for several topics that
President zalinski references in this
conversation I recommend my conversation
with sirohi and many others about the
history of the region but here let me
start with
1991 when Ukraine declared its
independence and the Soviet Union
collapsed from this point on Russia
Ukraine relations were defined in large
part by whether Ukraine aligned more
with Russia or with the West meaning
Europe United States NATO and so on in
2004 with the orange Revolution a
pro-western candidate Victor Yenko
became president in 2010 it went the
other way a pro-russia candidate Victor
yanukovich became president the internal
tensions grew and in 2013 yidan protest
broke out over yanukovich's decision to
suspend talks with the European Union in
favor of closer ties with Russia this
head forward a chain of important events
in 2014 on the politics front yanukovich
was ousted and fled to Russia leading to
the election of a pro-western president
also in 2014 on the war front Russia
annexed Crimea and war broke out in the
dbass region of eastern Ukraine which
eventually killed over 14,000 people and
continued all the way to 20 22 when on
February 24th
2022 Russian forces initiated a
fullscale invasion of
Ukraine this is when the world started
to really pay
attention now some history of peace
talks Vladimir zalinski won the
presidency in 2019 and he discusses in
this conversation the ceasefire
agreements he made with Vladimir Putin
in 2019 which was one of many attempts
at peace from from the two Minsk
agreements in 2014 and 15 to a series of
ceasefire agreements in 2018 19 and 20
all of which failed in part or in
whole all this shows just how difficult
ceasefire and peace negotiations are but
they are not impossible it is always
worth trying over and over again to find
the path to peace I believe that
presidents zalinski Putin and Trump
Trump should meet soon after January
20th this year and give everything they
got to negotiate a ceasefire and
security guarantees that pave the way
for long- lasting peace we discussed
several ideas for this in this
conversation as I said this was one of
my main goals here to push for peace
this trip to K and this conversation was
a truly special moment for me in my life
it is one I will never forget for get so
to reflect I say a few more words and
answer some questions at the very end if
you like to listen but here let me say
thank you to everyone for your support
over the years it means the
world this is Alex Freedman podcast and
now dear friends here's the president of
Ukraine Vladimir
zansky if we can explain why the
Ukrainian language is very important our
conversation will be most effective and
impactful if we speak in Russian I speak
Russian perfectly of course and I
understand everything you are talking
about however I can't respond in Russian
the entire interview it's because this
is how it is today I am not making
anything up you can see it all for
yourself you can feel and hear it today
there were 73 missile attacks against us
and people were killed there were over
100 drones today and this is a daily
occurrence the people who attack us they
speak Russian they attack people who
were only recently told that this was
actually in defense of Russians speaking
people and this is why I
respect neither the leader or director
of today's Russia nor the people I just
that's it and I I don't think that you
can just uh can just pretend that
nothing's happening and give Putin a
pass once again for for saying that we
are one people that we speak one
language Etc they speak the language of
weapons that is a fact and we are
peaceful people peaceful people
who want to protect themselves and
defend their freedom and their human
choice you know at the beginning of the
war I addressed Russians in
Russian Zero Effect
they're
mute they they do not listen they did
not listen some are afraid some have
other issues they have different reasons
it's like when a person is drowning
drowning and people walk by because they
can't hear them and someone walks on by
crying afraid to save them it doesn't
change anything for the one drowning
they need someone to help them this is
why I honestly despise these people as
they are deaf they they began the
occupation in the supposed defense of
the Russian language and that's why with
all due respect I would like to give an
interview in Ukrainian this is very this
is very important to
me if there are some points that you
want me to explain in Russian I can
certainly do that I can certainly
occasionally speak Russian but in
general in general no I'm not sure that
that you will understand me completely
despite your Ukrainian Roots you are a
citizen of the United States
right
yes that's why I'm surprised that
you don't understand well it was a long
time ago I understand that it was a long
time ago
moreover uh a lot has changed a lot has
changed if if I may please allow me to
say this in Russian yes many things have
changed but I have hope I hope that
today many Russians will hear this that
Vladimir Putin will hear this that the
American president Donald Trump and the
American people will hear this that
everyone will hear this and yes
Ukrainian language is important
symbolically but what is also important
is that we understand each other well
for Donald Trump is it important for
Donald Trump whether I speak Russian or
not yes because unfortunately and it
hurts to admit but I cannot speak or
understand Ukrainian yet so your your
wit dynamism and your Humanity will not
come through as well and as quickly
remember I need to wait for 2 to 3
seconds to hear it you have a great
sense of humor great stories with an
interpreter translating I simply won't
see this but I understand that it's
painful another reason is that I hoped
we could show that even even though it
is sometimes said that Russian is banned
in Ukraine this is not true I'm speaking
Russian now right we have people who
speak Russian this is not true really
it's not it's really not true we
disrespect Russian now because of
Russians that's all when they were
saving Russian speakers they killed
Russian speakers many people who
actually uh many of whom are in the East
right in the East they live lived in the
East they destroyed their houses
destroyed their lives it's not a
rhetorical thing it's not all talk and
blah blah blah I don't have time for
blah blah blah yes so it's a very very
very important and sensitive moment the
message is that we are not one nation we
are not you know the same country we're
different
countries yes different countries and I
think what is most important
is what we're talking about
not how we're speaking about it this is
what I think you're a smart guy so you
have a lot of experience in dialogue of
this kind that's why I think you will
you will understand
me yeah I anyway I think it is far
better for Donald Trump to hear my
English not my Russian your English is
much better than my Ukrainian you're
getting better and better that's true
I'm a very honest guy that that's why I
will be very honest with you your
Ukrainian is not very good but we will
but we will work on it yes I have many
flaws that's one of them sometimes I can
speak English sometimes as I understand
we can be very flexible right very
flexible Spanish Swahili yeah you see
yeah Javier used to understand this so
by the way Javier understood me without
any words the language of love maybe of
respect I respect him I had a very good
conversation with him really brilliant
may I sometimes speak Russian and
sometimes English yes you can use any
language you like and I think that's a
very good rule for this first meeting
between us as you said maybe we will
meet in the future for the second time
second and third and fourth yeah this is
this is good you can ask questions in
the language you'd like and I will
answer in the language I can well you
said you wanted to meet by the Sea at
some point so for our next meeting let's
meet by the sea with pleasure next time
it would be much better to meet by our
Ukrainian black or our azov sea you know
I've been to a lot of I have traveled to
many cities in Ukraine but I have never
been to Odessa and everyone tells me
that and I don't know why you have to
can you explain to me why everyone loves
Odessa so
much what's
there you know what's in Odessa that's
how they say it what's there in Odessa
we've got it all all okay Odessa I love
Odessa because of its particular
temperament people have their own their
own accent and it's so there are many
nationalities you know there are a lot
of lot of stories authentic Odessa
Cuisine by the way you know the cuisine
is very different from others the dishes
are not like any other dishes and
everything is very tasty also there are
beautiful people and today you
know you understand people very well
especially after after the attacks on
Odessa you understand what the people
are like just how odessites are very
Ukrainian and that's that's very cool I
love Odessa I go there several times a
year I go there several times a year now
because well now because of
strengthening of air defense systems of
this grain Corridor Etc I go there more
often they have the sun there they have
the
sea it's Ukraine and it's very cool
there well when you come and visit me in
Texas as a guest for the third time with
pleasure let's do this how about you my
friend Joe Rogan and I will go get some
Texas barbecue together who will pay
that's a good question Putin Putin
for everything he has to pay well yes
we'll invite him to no no no no okay
without him okay I get it
understood uh but if the Rome statute uh
will be accepted by your government
before this moment okay by the way I
don't know if you know this but Joe has
a great comedy club in Austin Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan yes and I think that as a
person who respects comedy and stand up
comedy it would be interesting for you
to have a look at it no no he is I know
him and I saw uh a lot of different
videos he's uh he's a very talented
person so it would be a pleasure if you
invite me and I'm able to do it I'm a I
am a little bit busy yeah but uh if I'll
be if I'll be in the United States I I
hope that I will have a conversation and
a meeting with President Trump and uh of
course during my visit if I'll have the
time it would be a pleasure if you'll
invite me with pleasure you know what I
will pay good yeah I you know I had to
think about it but you know you are the
president yes with you with pleasure
when the war is over please come than
you're less busy thanks so much um if
you can go go back many years World War
II tell me the story of your grandfather
who fought in World War
II my grandfather he he
graduated from the
military Military
Academy and from the very beginning of
the war he went to fight he was in the
Infantry and he fought through the
entire War he had many
wounds as they used to say back then his
chest is covered in metals and it's true
he had more than
30 uh yes more than 30 he was the kind
of man he was
such he was such a serious man I loved
him very much um and we had a very close
relationship um he didn't like to tell
details about the war he
never he never boasted although I asked
him as a boy would how many fascists did
you kill he never talked about it he
believed that the war was a great a
great
tragedy uh a tragedy for for
everyone and
uh Ukraine was occupied and it was a
tragedy for Ukraine a tragedy for Europe
and a tragedy for the Jewish
people his own
Brothers his entire family were
executed they were
tortured by fascists who had occupied
Ukraine and their
Village his father was the head of
the
village and he was killed they were
shot it was a
mass a mass grave right yes it was a
communal burial some of them were killed
outright and others were they were
buried alive His Four Brothers they all
went to war as soon as the War Began
they were all there um he was the only
one who had a military education and
they
all died in the war he was the only one
who came back he had
nobody he came back and he
found found
my grandmother his future wife and she
was she managed what was it called then
I don't know they don't have them
anymore it was a child care facility and
orphanage so to speak a place where
orphans lived
children who who don't have parents
children of war and she managed this
child care facility with difficult
children as they used to call them
difficult children who went through the
war who saw their parents killed and
this is how they met because um these
difficult children they well sometimes
behave differently they could steal
something do something bad there were um
many many children in the
orphanage yes that's how she met my
grandfather
and I loved him very
much and I think that my
grandfather frankly would never have
believed that this war is possible he
would never have believed it because he
worked in the police after the war he
was a CO col he worked in a criminal
investigation all his life so he fought
with um Bandits all his life after the
second world
war but
also I believe he fought for justice all
his life and we all lived in one
apartment and even after his death I
lived with both of my grandmothers and
my parents two grandmothers who both
lost their husbands both of them died
well it was an ordinary family an
ordinary family that lived like everyone
lived back then in the Soviet Union and
even after the Soviets in the '90s we
lived in one apartment all
together what else is there to say but I
think the most important thing was
values
respect they gave me an education my
parents gave me an education no one left
me money or apartments so I didn't
inherit anything material but I believe
that our real inheritance is here in our
minds and in our hearts I believe
that one second so if uh I'm sorry if
you it's fine tell a joke I will laugh
about one two or 3 seconds later there's
a delay so ordinary family but not an
ordinary time World War II World War II
speaking of mass Graves I was at Bob and
Yar yesterday a large part of my family
died there in moments like this such a
place serves as a stark reminder of the
profound historical gravity of the
second World War
I remember I remember this song from my
youth on June 22nd at 4:00 ke was bombed
and the War
Began I always wondered how it would
feel to live in a moment when when
everything changed the path of humanity
completely shifts in a single moment
just like that uh what do you
think what do you think about that
moment in
1941 now after the 2022 invasion how do
you perceive the second world war after
you have witnessed all of
it well
um well firstly the war actually started
earlier it started here in Ukraine Kev
was bombed as you
quoted but the war had already begun
before that and I think I perceived it
um as a start of the fullscale invasion
well I
think it's hard it's hard to understand
why nobody wants to listen look at and
analyze
history War the rise of Fascism and
Nazism the emergence of Hitler Gobles
and their entire team at the time this
wasn't just about one party or even one
country it was um essentially a wave a
wave of
hatred a
wave of One race um One race Above the
Rest they were in fact constructing and
ultimately implemented a theory around
this idea later seizing Europe um they
created a theory of of one nation One
race one world their world of course
this idea is absolutely senseless but it
has become radicalized over the years
and even gained
support a vision of one world and in
principle the so-called Russian World
the ideology Putin promotes and imposes
it wasn't originally like that he was a
different person back then or maybe he
was always like this but his rhetoric
was different at the beginning remember
he talked about the EU and even about
Russia's future being tied to Nato there
were even talks of joining the European
Union NATO he spoke about shared values
with the West that's how it all sounded
back then and we must also look at
Hitler who was seriously
um before the radical idea of taking
over the whole
world he actually made
certain steps and everyone believed he
was helping the economy and to be fair
he did take some steps in that direction
but he was a terrifying
person none of those actions justify him
nor do they excuse his actions and
that's why we cannot look at the second
world war as if it started in 1939 it
didn't begin in 1941 either we need to
draw conclusions when did it start with
the weaknesses of the
world the division of European States
the molotov ribbon trop pack all of this
happened before 1941 people who were
more informed those who dug deeper
whether they were politicians or not
whether they were from different walks
of life
B including business which was different
back then were speaking about all of
this Hitler won't
stop there'll be a World War Hitler will
destroy Nations Nations and that's what
happened someone looked the other way
what I told you about Europe was sinking
then I gave you an example of it but the
whole world looked the other way and
didn't pay attention and said no we can
negotiate with him I'm telling you he is
okay we can negotiate with him he's just
more right leaning or it does not matter
what they said he's just he's just Pro
very Pro
nationalist this is all nonsense and
this is not the first time and Hitler
isn't the first such case in history
we're dealing with a person who is
allowed to
stick to
this desire to
destroy he was consumed by it and
enjoying it and what happened to Hitler
now what about
Putin this invasion was also at 4 in the
morning around 4 in the morning there
were missile strikes on Ukraine this is
the same I believe that intentions are
also the same but more on that later by
the way you tell me if this is too long
you you you can stop me never long
enough it's beautiful okay so it
happened here around 4 in the morning
I before this I must honestly
say everyone said something predicted
something Etc but I asked only for one
thing primarily from the United States
if you are sure if you have the evidence
if you talk to him and he tells you that
there'll be an invasion if all this
scares you I only asked for two things
send us weapons or better
yet strengthen us with preventive
measures so there would be no war it
wasn't the weapons that I was asking for
I asked for sanctions intimidate him
please don't say that if he comes if he
crosses borders if he kills we're
imposing sanctions well this is complete
sorry but really oh I
understand this oh wonderful yes I
understood one word
yeah yeah so they did not help I believe
that no and this is a fact we didn't
receive help if we assume that words are
help well then yes we received a lot of
it because there were plenty of words
even more than plenty
yes at 4 in the morning there were
strikes
morally is it possible to prepare for
war no it doesn't happen like you read
in books see in movies and so on what
happens to you I was just looking at my
wife and children my children were
asleep but my wife was awake there were
strikes missile strikes we heard
them to you as a living
person how can this be you just can't
fully believe
this you just
don't understand why now given
everything that happened in World War II
when uh when millions of people
died none of it mattered still at 4: at
4: in the morning around 4 3:40 345
remember around this time yes there were
missile
strikes and later by the
way a
few days after after the first days of
the
war I spoke with lucenko on the
phone and he
apologized and he said that it was not
me missiles were launched from my
territory and Putin was the one
launching
them these are his words I have
witnesses and I apolog olog he said but
believe me that's what he told me Valia
this is not me I'm not in charge he told
me I'm not in charge these are just
missiles this is Putin I told him don't
do that this was done without me that's
it he just on the phone I remember this
conversation I told him that I
believed I told him you are a murderer
too I'm just
saying and he told me
you must understand you can't fight the
Russians I told him that we never fought
them I said it's War the missiles came
from your land from Belarus how did you
allow this then he replied all right
retaliate then I still remember him
telling me hit the refinery you know how
much I care about it Moser oil refinery
is that it can't recall Moser oil
refinery I told him what are you on
about
what
retaliation forgive me Valia yes yes yes
this this was at 5: in the morning no no
no this was during the first or maybe
the second day second or third day of
the war ah yes I see well after that I
went back home I was home with my
children with my wife I just went to my
wife very quickly that night at 4:00 yes
and just told her get the children get
ready you'll probably need to go to my
office very soon and I left that's it at
this
moment you're you're no longer a
father what happened to me unfortunately
because I believe that this
is and not only do I believe I
understand especially now that all of
this is the most important thing because
your country is your
family it's the strength is in your
family and this is the most important
thing and I'm the president and
therefore I had to stop being a father
in my own family and my wife had to do
everything she had to do everything
regarding
children regarding safety and and I had
to deal with the state because I'm the
president and this is my duty and I by
the
way um um um taking this very seriously
I went to the the office and here we are
now you're very welcome well at that
moment on February 24th
2022 everything changed again just like
in June 1941 uh everything
changed and uh history took a turn the
history of humanity took a turn and for
you too you were the
president you were you were talking
about fighting corruption about the
country's Freedom about interesting and
innovative
forms but that morning of February 22nd
everything changed could you tell me
about that morning the details of your
actions when you had to quickly make
difficult
decisions uh what was the process for
you how did you make these decisions did
you discuss them with people you trust
to understand how to respond to this
invasion in every technical political
and Military aspect what was the process
for you how did you make the
decision according to our legislation in
principle I'm I'm I'm the supreme
commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
so I had to give corresponding orders
yes I have a military office and then
later there was a military headquarters
where all key people gathered this is
not only about the military it's about
energy Etc all key things but at that
moment I made the
decisions quickly and without a doubt
and and I cannot say that I am just that
kind of person I'm just a living person
who believed that if help is needed
right now to to help to help evacuate
people help with children several cities
were blocked I was only thinking about
how to deliver food there within within
a day we did a lot of things although we
understood that that they in fact
occupied part of
our
state and
it we distributed weapons to
people that's how it
was trucks came and simply distributed
weapons to people so that they could
defend the capital to Ordinary People
just on the street to ordinary people
who who understood that if the Russians
enter the
city then we would have the same thing
that's happening in other cities per the
information we
received uh thanks to digitalization by
the way we had very good digitalization
before this and we preserved a lot and
even when they were
surrounding certain cities a lot of
things still worked the banking system
the internet we had television and
thanks to this I made several decisions
to ensure that people are united and
have all the
information Russia is very
good at spreading large scale
disinformation fortunately I I have a
two decades of experience two decades of
experience
managing a Production Studio
TV
channels and large media resources I
understood that we needed uh to build an
Information Network very quickly thanks
to this I began to address the people
constantly this happened several times
three to five times a day in fact I
became
that an information source for people
who were in cities that were cut off
from other information
and it was very important for me to keep
uh all things digital to keep the
internet to stay in touch with everyone
with all the people initially that's the
contact we had and then uh we also built
a media platform so um where we had all
the news
agencies agencies of
Ukraine and this network was called
marathon and it was also very important
for the people to trust us and people
had to receive information why there
were waves there were waves of Russian
on the first day who said he ran
away I had to go out into the street I
left the office and went outside I had
to do this because I was showing that
this was no green screen you know to
show that it was the street not some
digital some digital manipulation I mean
I did these things then I touched
various objects now people might think
that these are small things but I was
actually showing that I was in a real
place all of this had an impact I was
absolutely sure my
actions and these contacts several
contacts and then I spoke to the
Russians I addressed Russians I really
did and then only after that I gathered
it was the first day when I invited uh
all of the journalists here wasn't it
that was on the first day I think well
not here here to the Press Center in
this
building I talked to journalists I asked
them not to leave because we needed
weapons at that moment they were handing
out rifles to people and for me
journalists and media platforms were
essential voices there were there were
various journalists from different
countries here and they were essentially
stuck and I asked them for contacts
those who had access to to Russians
Bellar Russians kazaks who understood
everything the same information and I I
spoke to them and I spoke to them and
spoke in Russian I told them you must
stop Putin this is terrible this is
horror This Is War you must stop him and
if you stand up now if you speak out and
if you go out into the streets this was
very important I spoke to them in
Russian to show them that there was no
problem and that all of these pretexts
were were made
up this is why it's so painful to talk
about the Russian language too because
look if a person does not want to listen
they will not listen No Matter What
language we speak I disagree with you
here I think and hope that many people
in Russia will hear us today
they blocked YouTube recently are you
aware of this in their country I know
and I simply guarantee that this
conversation will travel fast on the
internet everyone will hear you they
will hear you including the president of
Russia will hear you this is why I have
hope he is actually deaf even if he
speaks to you he is deaf by his very
nature do you understand the difference
you know for instance when you
talk to
musk you're talking
to an
innovator a scientist about Rockets you
talk about how to save on costs and how
they
land and on the other hand Putin doesn't
launch rockets to save money but to kill
people do you think you can talk to
Putin about
technology your guys were were
interviewing him and he told them about
about tribal
history do you understand imagine a
Russian man in his country listening to
him you know what musk is about
technology Mars artificial intelligence
and this guy Putin is standing there
bareass pontificating about
tribes you've got to understand you
think that when you do interviews like
Mr Tucker who did an interview there
that that you're about to make them
friends how could
you what does this have to do with
friends he's
different he is he is simply different
but it's still necessary a mammoth
stands before
you by the way I must say that when you
said bear asked it was not translated
could The Interpreter please translate
this is so that you can understand now
he explained everything to me I
understand that's I fully understand
that's great but we still need to talk
one should always speak with someone who
listens and you must speak when you know
that this will benefit you bring peace
and calm to the world not the other way
around I love president Trump's message
when he speaks I I think that we share a
position on peace through strength that
is very important it means that if you
are
strong you can
speak and we need to be strong and
Ukraine has to be strong strong
enough otherwise what for so
he you you know who like like Voldemort
who
must who must not be named yes he's he's
like
Voldemort
he thrives subsists and lives on being
subjectivized instead of isolation he is
offered to step out into the light he's
Darkness personified and you offer him
as it were to be subjectivized why
there's only one
reason
fear and you say we need to talk listen
we need to be in a strong position and
not talk but end the war yes yes it is
possible through dialogue we're not
opposed to
it you just need to be in a strong
position to make the other person want
it do you think he wants to end the
war that's what you suggested I think
this is naive I'm sorry with all due
respect it's naive to think he wants to
finish the
war it's uh tell you what the
circumstances sorry for interrupting the
the there's something we need I think
that President Trump not only has will
he has all these possibilities and it's
not just talk I really count on him and
I think that our people really count on
him so he has enough
power to pressure him to pressure Putin
not into wanting to stop it no he will
not want to to pressure him to actually
stop it that is the difference don't
rely on his will Putin's will to stop
you won't see it that's what I think
sorry no sorry I interrupted you first
but what I would want I do have what
some uh what some might call a naive
dream of you sitting down with Putin and
Trump and negotiating a deal about uh a
ceasefire and together finding a path to
long-term peace and I think this
requires strength requires
negotiations there are a lot of carrots
and sticks here that can be used to make
a real deal and Trump is very keen on
making a deal and ready to negotiate can
I ask you a question
yeah I just really want you and I to be
on the same
page uh it's very important to be in the
same information space extremely
important uh let's talk a bit about the
ceasefire let me describe the situation
to
you in December 2019 in Normandy in
Paris at the Elisa Palace macron Merkel
Putin and I
agreed on the ceasefire the US wasn't
there and this by the way was a weak
point of the meeting if you'd like we
can later discuss why they
weren't there it's a security guarantee
thing in general it's Germany's position
Etc we agreed on an exchange of hostages
and all for all exchange we made a deal
to exchange everyone for everyone I
think you know that and there was also a
meeting that lasted many hours a meeting
where we made we made a deal with him
everyone was tired it was just the two
of us in the end and I proposed a
ceasefire
by the way no one in Ukraine believed
few believed in the ceasefire and he
wanted troop withdrawal I calculated
that if there were a withdrawal of
troops from the line of contact the way
Russians proposed it would take 20 years
I proved it to him just in terms of time
square kilometers namely the length of
the line of contact or delimination line
and we agreed on what I told him that um
it will not work out but but I I had
many points because I was deeply
involved in the issue I was involved
very deeply it's my thing in general if
I start doing something I can't stand
there like that guy I spoke about with
my ass out you
know I must be
dressed I must be prepared I must be
prepared better better than anyone in
front of me you do sports right mhm I
practiced for many years and we know
what fights are like what boxing is what
tie boxing is this is what I did and I
loved it very much when you step into
the ring you understand everything
pretty much
mhm and so I stepped into it and I was I
was definitely well
prepared but he wasn't no he was not
deeply involved in the process what
border where is it how long will it take
to disengage troops and why wasn't he
involved you want to know because he
wasn't going to do any of this this is
what confused me if you are not deeply
involved in the issue well then you it's
um it's as if you don't really need the
result that's what I
think so what happened we
agreed that there will
be gas
continuation gas transit in 2019 we
agreed with him this was the security
for Europe Merkel asked me for it and
this was extremely important for Germany
we agreed with
him secondly we agreed that for him it
was just money so secondly we agreed on
an exchange for me this was the most
important thing for them gas was for me
was the people and this is a fact
because I wanted to have a humanitarian
Advantage so that there would be further
meetings that would lead to sustained
peace and
third
ceasefire ceasefire you spoke
about what
happened the gas contract was signed
because he needed it and by the way away
he knew everything about it as for
exchange we took the first step and
exchanged the
people regarding the
ceasefire
well they started killing us in about a
month
so I called
him and I told
him we agreed on a ceasefire didn't we
well it wasn't a piece of toilet paper
was it this is serious business or so it
seemed it really was serious Merkel
macron you and I we all agreed on this
together a ceasefire is important isn't
it not for New Year's cuz everyone was
celebrating New Year's and now they're
offering us a Christmas ceasefire it's
all the same a ceasefire for 2 three
days just to get some praise but this
isn't a performance this isn't some kind
of theater no this this is about
people's lives and that's what happened
after that I called him a few more times
I think I only had two three calls with
him in total I asked him for a ceasefire
he told me it couldn't be we will we
will figure it out now people from
people from the occupied territory
Russians and separatists they were all
there
together they continued to shoot and
kill our people yes the front line lines
were
quiet but they killed
people they were killing people and I
kept calling him I called again and
again but there was nothing until after
a few months the Russians stopped
answering the phone we did not have any
contact
since I wanted another meeting like we
had in Normandy I wanted the next
meeting I wanted to find a solution but
the Russians refused
we tried to make it happen through
various European countries and not only
European but the Russians refused they
passed along some kind of made
excuses they didn't want it meanwhile
they were sending their
snipers we had evidence living proof
even video evidence because some of them
were captured back then those were the
snipers in training they were training
them they were training them and later
those snipers
at in Syria and Africa these snipers
were training in our country in the East
ukrainians were living
targets they were shooting from the
other side killing people women people
children they were shooting it was a
hunt by the way it was in the Russian
speaking region in the East where
according to him everyone is speaking
Russian that's where they were shooting
where the situation currently is the
most tense they killed people we sent
this information sent pictures we sent
them to the UN sent them everywhere we
worked very hard very persistently I met
with everyone but who thought of Ukraine
back then they didn't notice it much
they didn't pay much attention to to
Crimea being illegally occupied either
and to be honest the United States of
America too everyone was somewhat silent
about this issue that's how it was it
was
it was like that before a fullscale war
I want to ask you a question about the
ceasefire for example in marup in marup
today uh there are American and
Ukrainian
journalists and everyone will tell you
who had contact who has contact now with
marul who fled from there in the last
minutes just before the occupation or
who was able to leave to escape after
the occupation chernoff who one and
Oscar was among them and the journalists
that left Mario Paul they are here by
the way we had a
conversation uh they will tell you that
20,000 30,000 civilians were tortured
and buried there we do not know the
number of
victims people who didn't want to work
with them who refused to cooperate with
them people who went on strikes to
protest people who did not want to work
with the Russians who occupied marup and
this is one example just with this city
and I have a question for you what about
the millions of children and I will ask
you in Russian so that you hear this
without delay what about the millions of
children over there what if we just
arranged a ceasefire without
understanding what would happen next
without understanding what will happen
to Ukraine's security guarantee
what about the millions of children in
the occupied territories what should I
tell them what am I to tell them what is
it I should tell them what
whatever hey all of you over there see
and those tens of thousands of people
buried there they were is that what we
want are we ready to forgive them for
this we must at least take the first
step if this is a ceasefire we must know
that there is a security guarantee for
the part of Ukraine under our control we
need it so that he will not come
back this is very important and what do
we say to the people who live in those
territories these are millions of people
did you know that since 2014 in donet in
the Crimea this is happening in mapole
as well as in berans now they are making
all these kids of drafting age
go and fight and if they don't go they
will be killed this is do you understand
what's
happening that is why a
ceasefire everything I
said what I wish for and I believe in
president Trump's power to
use all of this information to come up
with a way to make Ukraine
strong and be
strong why am I saying
that I will give you an
example president
Trump will be in the same situation as I
was in
2019 precisely the same situation I want
to end the war we want a lasting peace
for Ukraine we must do this the
ceasefire exchange people and then
diplom automatically return all
territories and we will do this through
diplomacy what will happen next with
President Trump if the ceasefire happens
without security guarantees at least for
the territory we control what does he
get
if he manages to make a ceasefire
deal and 3 months
later Putin launches a new wave of
attacks What Will trump look
like what will Ukraine look
like what will everyone look
like Putin will just do it and why would
Putin do it because today he's afraid of
trump but once Trump manages for
example to do a ceasefire deal without
serious security guarantees for Ukraine
he will give a pass to Putin not that he
wants to no he does not want that I
believe in what he says but he will give
Putin an opportunity because in Putin's
head he wants me to fight with Trump
Putin's plan is to end the occupation of
our territory this is in his sick
head and I'm absolutely sure of this
that is why I told you don't wait for
Putin to want to stop the
war pressure him so that he is for
forced to stop the war that's
important it's important to say that
what you said about the children is a
tragedy War as hell but let me say again
we must find a path to peace there is
one what is it there is one before
ceasefire strong Ukraine strong
Ukraine's position yes we can speak
about it with
Trump for me we can we can speak about
security guarantees but a quick step a
quick step is NATO a partial membership
NATO yes I
understand I understand I understand
Trump's feelings about NATO I heard him
he's thinking through all of it of
course but anyway yes NATO is a strong
security guarantee for all the people
for us part of security guarantees the
second part is the arms Aid package
which we will not use if a ceasefire
Works nobody will use the weapons for
what but it has to stay but with all due
respect to the United States and to the
administration not like before I I don't
want the same situation like we had with
Biden I ask for sanctions now please and
weapons now and then we will see if they
start it again of course we'll be happy
if you'll give us more and you will
stand with us shoulder Tosh shoulder of
course that is right but but it's
different when you have
weapons Putin wouldn't have been able to
occupy so much territory it was very
difficult for us to push him out but we
didn't have weapons before and that is
the same situation it can be the same
situation I'm just sharing this with you
like I said at the very beginning I want
to be very honest with you and with your
audience yes it's true if we do not have
security guarantees Putin will come
again to make it clear let's
describe the idea that you are speaking
about I would like to offer you other
ideas too but right now your idea is
that NATO accepts Ukraine minus the five
regions of luhansk donet zapia kerson
and Crimea just so you understand the
situation the invitation to Nato is
legislatively issued to Ukraine so to us
all those territories are still UK
Ukraine but NATO so far can only act in
the part that is under Ukrainian control
this can be negotiated I am sure about
that yes this would not be a great
success for us but if we see a
diplomatic way to end the war this is
one of the ways so it is sorry that is a
start secondly weapons arms Aid package
I not ready to discuss this publicly
right now it's all written down and and
president Trump might have seen it or
not but we've got no secrets from him
yes so but mostly depends on the
willingness of the United States because
some of it will come from the EU some
from the United States of course
together so not just from the United
States no no no we need Unity with this
package so the package and
sanctions yes sanctions but I think it's
in the interest of all the the smart
people to not have Russian energy on the
market in general so he he has to stop
it that's all it's fine American Oil
American Gas is okay why not and it's
cheaper so it will be cheaper for the
whole world the money will go to the
United States and I think he will be
happy and the president and your people
will be happy but it's your decision I'm
just sharing yes and cheap oil so Putin
won't have so much money for for the war
and that that's it but this is difficult
because it's a lot you're saying to
continue the sanctions on Russia to
accept Ukraine into NATO I need to ask
you some difficult questions about this
yes go on I trust and respect your words
today many people respect and love you
in America Trump respects you uh loves
me oh come on now remember last time you
corrected me when I said that you love
Javier mle you said no no no I respect
him let's talk about love
today but could we talk seriously about
about guaranteeing Russia's
security okay can I interview you a
little question is what land is the war
happening on and where did it start on
our soil on our
territory international law was violated
the sovereignty of our country was
violated civilians were killed tens of
thousands of our people were taken
hostage and every everyone will tell you
this
happened this is what happened when I
speak with the global South which is
trying to balance the two sides because
of the history because of their roots
and because of their shared economic um
interests with Russia in the past and
now of course when you talk to them um
they are speaking a little bit like you
I mean they're balancing a little bit
you know yeah a little bit in between
but we will work on it yeah it's it's
our first meeting during the second one
you will be more on our side but it's
just just very convincing will very
charismatic yeah thank you but when I
speak with them when I speak it's very
important even with their balancing uh
uh attitude towards the
war they
all recognize that this is a
war this is not just internal
conflict this is a full scare
war that began that Putin began and all
of them all of them if you talk to them
they
say but then they all recognize that
that it's his
own
big mistake Putin's mistake and that
he's not right
that's why I said no no he's not right
and you have to begin from this if you
begin at the middle between Ukraine and
Russia of course we can speak like this
you are in the middle and say okay
what's going on there is a fight where
is the fight it's not the fight like
like in Europe when Napoleon is fighting
against somebody in the middle of Europe
no this is not in the middle of
somewhere of the planet not the planet
it's concretely on our land so
one country with one Army one person
came to another that's it it's very
clear again I would like us to find a
path to
peace so let us nevertheless try to
start in the middle what other ideas do
you think might you are a very
intelligent person and your Russian
isn't that good either huh and I told
you yes that this is only our first
meeting my English is not very good
either your English is very good thank
you to be honest I'm terrible at
speaking in every language well there
there are other ideas for instance sorry
to say this it sounds crazy but what if
both Ukraine and Russia are accepted
into NATO Putin himself spoke about
Russia maybe about NATO what you just
said is very
correct what are the guarantees for
Russia it's not like I'm even interested
did what happens to them to be honest I
don't care what will happen to them in
the future after the war ends ah
but these are our borders and we must
understand what is going on there well
the NATO guarantees for
Ukraine actually this is also a security
guarantee for the
Russians frankly I talked about this
many times
before sorry I'm speaking figuratively
but as an example if you were a father
who lost his
children a grown man well a grown man a
man an
adult and the war has
ended and he never got never got Justice
for real for example somebody decides to
free support we won't give you anything
you can't fight you can't continue so we
stop when we stop without any guarantees
without any support without financing
without okay
and
nobody is held accountable but the man
lost his children he he will not get
anything none of the killers will be in
prison all the sanctions will be
removed and and he lost his
children and we have thousands of such
people why do you think they will not go
to
Russia we'll find a way and will not
kill the Russian soldiers there or
somebody there why wouldn't they it's
human nature it's not about us it's
everyone read American
Writers always after any
War if there is no justice for
people there must be punishment for the
crime it is only Justice how come my
child was taken away the war took him
this is very scary and even whether it
was my son who was fulfilling his
constitutional Duty or simply a missile
that struck a civilian child and if
there is no justice and the killers are
not punished why wouldn't these people
come back with
hate they will definitely come back so
when we talk about
NATO
NATO is not only stopping Russia do not
forget NATO is stopping ing us
too because there will not be Justice
for
everyone we know that NATO does not have
the right to solve certain issues with
war NATO is a security Alliance it is
protection not brainwashing what Putin
claims that this is offensive is not
true NATO is a defensive Alliance a
security Alliance and it is security for
Russia but unfortunately there are many
options for peace
that don't involve NATO inviting Ukraine
as a
member can you imagine security
guarantees without NATO membership for
example if America simply leaves NATO I
believe there is a high likelihood that
Donald Trump would do such a thing I
think it's very bad for NATO that's the
end that is that's the death of NATO it
is a Pity because I think that it's very
good alliance maybe not everything's
good there from the bureaucracy or money
Etc but totally countries who are in
NATO they they don't fight there is no
war on the land of any of these NATO
countries I think that is the answer it
works or not it works politically or
militarily I don't know but it works so
without Trump without the United States
of America there will not be NATO that
is the first so and you say can we
imagine that that what that there could
be security guarantee without no we
don't
need guarantees without the United
States that's it because the United
States is a very strong powerful country
the United States puts the point of
course Putin said that it's just the
Soviet Union where by the way Ukraine
was the second strong r Republic
militarily yes by the way but he he of
course always forgets about it but
during the World War
II without help of the United States
support of your troops support of your
industry industrially militarily without
your money without your people Hitler
could could
win so the United States helped a lot of
course Europe uh USSR and of course
everybody fought everybody did a lot but
without the United States it couldn't be
such I don't use the word success
because I think that there is no war
which ends successfully because this is
a war seven figure losses heavy losses
in World War II millions of people and
that's why without the United States
security guarantees are not possible I
mean these security
guarantees which can prevent Russian
aggression of course we have security
guarantees bilaterally with some
countries financing support of our
internal military and defending and
humanitarian issues and demining which
is very important and helping our
children in the school networks by the
way this is a very sensitive Point how
many how many bomb shelters how many
bomb shelters we built with the partners
for the children and and it's a Pity
that they are underground but can you
imagine their eyes when they came after
Co you understand what does it mean
covid but they had covid and the war and
together they didn't see each other for
so many years and when they saw each
other even underground they were very
happy and and smiling
so we have such security
guarantees but it's not enough to
prevent yes preventive measures also
work to prevent the aggression of
Putin English your English is better
than my Russian this is so this is
wonderful oh I'm not sure I'm just
giving you a compliments thank you
supposed to do that kind of thing to a
president thank you so
much okay uh once again come on without
NATO guarantees I have a dream that
let's say on January 25 or sometime at
the end of January this year you will
sit down with Donald Trump with Vladimir
Putin and together negotiate a ceasefire
with strict security
guarantees
and an agreement will be
signed what will this look like without
NATO I will make it clear and so first
of all I think January 25th or some
other day well you just call it January
25th and I don't mind it's my birthday
and we sit
down first of all with
Trump we agree with him on how we can
stop the war stop Putin it is important
for us to sit
down with
him secondly it is very important for us
that
Europe which is very important for us
because we are part of Europe and not
only geographically
geopolitically but also in the European
Union where we will be for us it is very
important that
Europe also has a
voice it's the second thing it won't be
long because Europe will be looking at
us and we'll be looking at Trump and by
the way I now see that when I talk about
something with Donald Trump whether we
meet in person or we just have a call
all the European leaders always ask how
was it this shows the influence of
Donald Trump and this has never happened
before with an American president I tell
you from my experience this also gives
you confidence you know that he can stop
this war that is why we and Trump come
first and Europe will support Ukraine's
position because they understand that
Ukraine has every right to have its
voice heard in this because we are at
War Trump and I will come to an
agreement and then if and I am sure that
he can offer strong security guarantees
together with Europe and then we can
talk to the Russians that's right not
just three of us sitting down at
once and you still talk to me like that
do you know how as if Putin wants to sit
down and talk but Ukraine does
not this is not true I think that yes he
is in fact ready to talk did you talk to
him on the phone or what how do you
normally talk to him I don't know
normally by the Sea the same as with you
he invites you to the sea with me just
the three of us no no one of us may
drown who are you good at swimming yes I
am a good swimmer you're a good swimmer
well
and I would like to add that if you have
any contact with them I just want to
hear what happens then I have never
talked to Vladimir Putin but I have a
feeling that he is ready because Donald
Trump is ready I hope you are
ready and this is not just a feeling but
a dream I have a dream here that the
three of you will get together in a
room and make peace
and I want to understand what it looks
like what security guarantees look like
that would satisfy Ukraine it would
satisfy
Russia Ukraine needs security guarantees
first and foremost we are in
danger that is why they are called
so this is no joke to me let's take a
few steps back
interesting
uh why are security guarant ities a
strong position of Ukraine strong
weapons and so on so important I will
give
you a little history lesson although I
think you have prepared yourself and
know everything perfectly well you can
correct me on that yes Ukraine
had security guarantees The Budapest
memorandum nuclear weapons are the
security guarantees that Ukraine had
Ukraine had nuclear weapons I do not
want to character it as good or bad
today the fact that we do not have them
is bad why because this is war today we
are at War because you Unleashed we
because you have unleashed the hands of
a nuclear power a nuclear power is
fighting against us against Ukraine and
doing what it wants by the way even you
are now talking about ceasefire just a
ceasefire maybe give flowers to Putin
maybe to say thank you so much for these
years that was a great part of my life
no we are not just ready for this why
the Budapest memorandum nuclear weapons
this is what we had Ukraine used them
for protection this does not mean that
someone attacked us that doesn't mean
that we would have used it we had that
opportunity these were our security
guarantees why am I talking about this
in detail because if you take the
Budapest memorandum
by the way I discussed this with
President Trump we have not finished
this conversation yet we will continue
it regarding the Budapest memorandum The
Budapest memorandum included security
guarantees for Ukraine at first three
three the most important security
guarantors for Ukraine three strategic
friends and partners of
Ukraine this was in agreement United
States of America
Russia Britain France and China joined
there were five states
that these are not even security
guarantees we Now understand that this
is not a guarantee of security because
on the one hand these are security
guarantees but there was an English word
as far as I understand
Assurance it is translated as Assurance
Assurance right and in Russian it will
be
and what
assurance that is give up nuclear
weapons because you were under pressure
of the
US and Russia for Ukraine to give them
up these two Powers were exerting
pressure these two states negotiated to
ensure that Ukraine does not have
nuclear weapons Ukraine agreed these
These are the largest states this is the
nuclear five that does not not even
provide security guarantees now we just
need to find these people and we just
need to put in jail all of those who
frankly invented all
this so confidence so confidence
Assurance assurance that Ukraine will be
territorially
integral with its
sovereignty it was a piece of paper if
if you are curious by the way that after
occupying part of our donbas and Crimea
Ukraine sent diplomats three times I
don't think I remember three times
within a few years we sent letters to
all security guarantors to all members
of The Budapest
memorandum what did they send that what
was written on the piece of
paper
consultations Ukraine holds
consultations if it's territorial
Integrity is violated and everyone
should be in
consultation everyone must come everyone
must meet
urgently USA Britain
Russia France
China did anyone come you ask no did
anyone reply to these letters official
letters they are all recorded by
diplomats did anyone conduct
consultations no and why not they didn't
give a this is understandable in
Russian right that as Russia didn't give
a damn neither did all the other
security guarantors of the Budapest
memorandum none of them gave a damn
about this country these people these
security guarantees
Etc we take a break this will be a
Budapest memorandum the last time with
me imagine how many years it was with me
in February
2022 in February 2022 The War Began a
fullscale war letters for
consultations have been sent no one
answers next we are taking a break from
The Budapest memorandum the question is
simple about Budapest can we trust this
no whichever country out of these five
sat at the negotiating table just a a
piece of
paper believe me we
will save you now
another this is a train this is a train
with waste
paper with security guarantees which
Ukraine has been riding for many
years the second car on this train is
the Minsk agreements the Normandy format
and the Minsk agreements
where it was written where the
signatories were the United States of
America was no longer there I understand
that Obama was here at the time and as
far as I know I think they were simply
not interested in what happened to
Ukraine and where it was in general
where it was located well somewhere
there part of something people well
people and let it be let it be with
these
people the United States simply did not
participate in the Minsk agreements
there are no claims to the US because
they were not
guarantors where is the
claim a step
back 2008
Bucharest everyone has already learned
from The Budapest
memorandum
Bucharest 2008
Bucharest Mr
Bush president of the United
States Republican says that Ukraine
should be be in
NATO this is the voice of
Republicans check it out Ukraine should
be in
NATO everybody's looking at the US
always all in favor who is against
Merkel so she opposes and she forced
everyone not to give Ukraine an
invitation to join NATO because that
would be a step seriously Republicans
were in favor the US was in favor
because
Republicans and Bush were not afraid of
anyone they were not afraid of anyone
and they knew that Ukraine rightly
wanted to join NATO she chooses so and
what is the question well people made
their choice well and the Russians will
not look that way that was not the case
then why because the Russians were
different next
Minsk we didn't
succeed after the Minsk agreements as I
told you hundreds of meetings were held
I have had hundreds of meetings since
2019 we could not think about a
ceasefire a ceasefire is our offer this
is not somebody
suggestion this is mine I would
like I wanted to in Ukraine Society was
divided not everyone wanted to half did
not want to half were against half were
in favor favor some of them shouted do
not believe it some of them shouted
believe it I am the President of Ukraine
I was given a mandate of trust by 70% of
the population to take appropriate steps
and I made
them this is not a joke we'll just sit
the three of
us I am simply telling you what is this
is how can I tell
you these meetings must be serious and
prepared and prepared with those who
want peace Ukraine wants peace us wants
peace we have to sit down with Trump and
that is 100% first and foremost number
one moreover he told me on the phone
that he is waiting for us to meet and
there will be an official visit and my
visit would be the first or one of the
first to him and for him this topic is
very important I know that he has his
own matters American issues I understand
I heard his election program but
regarding International Affairs I think
our issue is one of the most pressing
issues for president Trump therefore I
believe very much I trust his words and
I hope we will meet again we need to
prepare we have many plans to build on
and they exist and they are supported by
many countries but we need his
vision he needs to look at all these
details but his vision please because he
can stop Putin because Putin is afraid
of him that's a fact but Trump is a
president of a democratic country and he
does not come for life he is not Putin
he will not come for 25 years he will
come for his
term please tell
me well for example he came for four
years and for the fifth year
Putin came with a war will it make Trump
feel better that there was no war during
his time and that Ukraine was destroyed
after him why
destroyed Putin is whoever a killer
whoever but not a
fool
he will be prepared he knows all
mistakes he understands how we defeated
his army after the invasion began he
realized that this was not a Soviet War
war and that this would not happen with
us he will prepare he will let
everything into arms production he will
have lots of weapons and there will be a
very large army and you think that after
such humiliation four years without a
war he did not finish us he will return
and fight only against
Ukraine he will destroy everything
around and if you say there is a risk
that Trump president Trump will withdraw
from n for example this is a decision of
the United States I'm simply saying that
if it does Putin will destroy
Europe calculate the size of Army in
Europe it's just that I say it for a
reason do the
calculation why did Hitler conquer all
of Europe then
almost just count remember his armies of
millions calculate what Europe has what
are the largest
armies we have the largest army
the Ukrainian Army is the largest in
Europe the second place after us is four
times smaller than
us France yes 200,000 I think the French
have about
200,000 we have
980 so this powerful Coalition of
European nations that will not be enough
yes it's not going to be enough but
you're a smart man there's a lot of
ideas
Partnerships uh with global South India
Middle East Saudi Arabia uh econom
Partnerships political Partnerships it
all protects you first of all look at
one
example North
Korea just look at this
example
12,000 has
arrived
today
3,800 killed or wounded
it they can bring
more 30
40,000 or maybe
500 they can bring many people why
because they have order autocracy and
everything can Europe bring people
together
no will Europe be able to build an Army
consisting of two to three million
people no Europe will not want to do
this and for what we definitely don't
want a world war with you there is no
such purpose there is no such purpose as
Gathering everyone we do not want any
War we want to stop the Russians and
they invite North Korean
soldiers
invited their faces are
burned they themselves burn their faces
those who cannot Escape injured or
killed there's a video everything I'm
telling you there is evidence of
this so that they are not recognizable
right it means what does it
mean it's out of values which share
Europe Europe
counts it means that those
guys they don't count you it's count yes
they don't count the number of people
that is the answer can they move more
yes can they move dozen of thousands yes
because we see what they have last year
for example Europe gave us 1 million
artillery
rounds we produced a lot ourselves but
they gave us initiative it was
initiative one million artillery rounds
and and of 155 and
Etc we produce
more but North Korea gave Putin
3.7 just gave him so he also has a
deficit for today it means he needs what
he needs time but the number of soldiers
yes and the number of artillery rounds
is not everything uh
as you have said let's say Donald Trump
guarantees security for four years uh
you can form Partnerships with with
India with Saudi Arabia that
enforce uh punishment the stick on oil
prices for example if any aggressive
action is taken you can actually even
build the I've met a lot of incredible
Ukrainian tech people it people you
could build build great companies that
form Partnerships with the United States
that form Partnerships with China and
that is a big leverage against
aggression
of however many million artillery rounds
and that a sheet of paper you don't need
a sheet of paper of protection Ah that's
you you um well when you
speak in English in English yeah you
don't even need um answers because when
you now we're talking
you already answered on all the
questions the first
one is that during this time you need
just cooperation a lot of money for for
this military
industry in Ukraine or in Europe um with
India Saudi Arabia Saudi and the United
States you need a lot of money so the
question is where you will get it so my
answer was to Trump I said this is one
of the security guarantees take 300
billions of Frozen Russian assets we
will take it take money what we need for
our interior production and we will buy
all the weapons from the United States
we don't need gifts from the United
States it will be very good for your
industry for the United States we will
put money there Russian money not
Ukrainian not European Russian money
Russian assets they have to pay for this
we will put it and we will make it this
is one of security guarantees yes of
course because this is a military
guarantee yes but then the second you
said that energy price and a lot of
sanctions on products and the Russian
Shadow Fleet and Etc that is the second
answer we spoke about before yes put
more sanctions on them more sanctions
it's okay not but not to take off
sanctions that's okay with you but it's
not going to be okay with the president
of Russia yes but I'm not thinking how
it will be very good for him he's still
a killer I understand but unfortunately
the reality is that a compromise is
needed in order to reach an agreement so
in you're understanding the fact that he
is no in jailed after all the murders he
is not in jail assuming all the murders
and no one in the world is able to put
him in his place send him to prison do
you think this is a small compromise
this is not a small compromise and to
forgive him will not be a small
compromise to forgive no one will
forgive this is absolutely impossible to
forgive him we cannot get into the head
and soul of a person who lost their
family nobody never will accept this
absolutely impossible I don't know do
you have children no not yet but I would
like to yes God bless and this is the
most important thing in life and they
simply took away the most precious thing
from you will you
ask who ruined your life before going to
rip their head off
I'm just curious they took your child
away are you going to ask who did this
and they will answer that that dude did
this you will say oh well then there are
no questions no no no you will go
hell and bite their head off and
it will be
fair can murderers be forgiven that's
why you make security guarantees what I
told you for those who are here and what
we control and what will not happen and
that those who lost we will we will we
will never forget in a matter of time
but when you gave us NATO I just said
this means that after a while everything
I said about NATO after a while Ukraine
will not go against Russia and Russia
will not go against Ukraine because you
are in NATO I am just saying is not that
a compromise so NATO is a compromise
this is not just a security guarantee in
my
opinion look when Rockets were attacking
Israel and Israel is not in
NATO NATO countries aircrafts were
deployed air
defense the air defense
worked operated by
different Middle Eastern countries these
are also security
guarantees and by the way Israel has
nuclear weapons
s so why do they need NATO when in fact
they have more than NATO has the
American British and French Aviation
stepped
in there was Ada I don't remember from
from Jordan
uh listen thousands of missiles were
shot down that way this is this is what
is this so it's a guarantee of safety
it's just that it's not called
NATO is some Uncle V irritated by the
word NATO there's a problem with the
word and I think he's simply irritated
by people who who are alive and living
here if you believe this it will be very
difficult to negotiate if you think that
the president of a country is completely
crazy it is really hard to come to an
agreement with him you have to look at
him as a serious person who loves his
country and loves the people in his
country and he conducts yes milary are
you talking about now who loves his
country Putin do you think he doesn't
love his
country no what is his country he
happened to consider Ukraine his country
what is his country explain it tomorrow
he will say that it's America no pity
for the
Chans do they look like Russians do they
speak
Russian of of course of course they
learn in schools like anywhere there's
been
russification who who are the Chens a
different
people another Faith other people
another language a
million
eliminated and eliminated how how did he
kill them with love I know by
hugging in Ukrainian as we as we say
strangling by hugging I love you so so
much I love you so much that I want to
kill you that's his love and that's not
love you're mistaken he does not love
his people he loves his inner circle
it's only a small part of the people he
doesn't love
them why I'll explain you cannot
send your people to another
land to
die
knowing that they will die
children my my daughter my daughter she
is she is 20 years old for me this is a
child she is already an adult of
course but she is she is a child the
boys the boys he sends are 18 years old
18 years old they are children he sends
them it's not that fascists came to his
land and he needs to defend it
he he came to ours and he sent them chna
he sent them Syria he sent them Africa
he sent them Georgia he sent them mova
transnistria that was before him fine we
can leave that aside he has enough sins
of his own and and then there's Ukraine
the largest
part 700
80,000 788 th000 killed
or or
wounded
Russians he calls them all Russians even
those who don't know who don't know how
to speak Russian on his territory of
Russia everything they've
enslaved yes proud
vangin so I wonder is that love what
love is this and for what does he love
his people no does he love his land his
country is bigger than America how much
land do you need America is huge America
is simply an outstanding country
outstanding
country Russia is
bigger well just
bigger so so ask yourself does he love
them what is he doing and what does he
love
do you think he's been everywhere in his
Russia it's impossible to get around it
he hasn't been everywhere he just hasn't
well I believe that Donald Trump loves
America and I don't think he has been to
every single American
city no no no I saw his rallies so many
rallies no no let's let's be honest
let's be honest he had it and I saw it
and it's very difficult he's not I mean
he's not 18 yes but he's strong
and this is his
will everywhere where the war is I'm
sure I pray to God it never will be on
your land yes and I'm sure that it will
not be but I'm sure that if you have in
some region the problems how to say
earthquake hurricane you have it
all well I'm sure that President
Trump would be there after one day two 2
or 3 days I don't know the security of
all these things but he will be
otherwise how will people look at him
yes of course he will of course the same
about me I'm not comparing myself with
him I'm just where it is difficult for
people I have to come the question the
next question is very
simple
region K
region the operation
there did Putin was Putin in in ksk
during during four months no listen I
have tremendous respect for you
admiration for many reasons one of which
is you stayed in Kev and uh another one
is that you visit the front and you talk
to the soldiers in the front and you
talk to people all across Ukraine
absolutely tremendous respect for that
so and not enough people say
that you know I had a conversation with
uh Tako Carlson for example and you know
I said that you're hero for staying in
Kev and he said well he just did a thing
that every leader should
do but I think not enough leaders do the
thing that every leader should do so
tremendous respect I agree with you
totally yes a leader should go to the to
the front of a war you know that said
America has waged Wars all across the
world that has the war in the in the in
Afghanistan and Iraq cost9 trillion and
killed over a million
people war is hell and did just because
war is waged in in in terrible ways that
it is does not mean the leader does not
love their country but I take your
point I once again have a dream
that even if there's hate that you sit
down with Donald Trump and Vladimir
Putin and you find a way to
peace let me ask you a question what do
you think will there ever be a day when
the Ukrainian people forgive the Russian
people and both peoples will travel back
and forth
again and marry each other rekindle and
form friendships will there be such a
time in the future I think history has
long answered this question I don't know
how it will be for
us uh it will be in the future without a
doubt history has shown this time and
again after every devastating War one
generation one country
recognizes that
it
uh
is was an
aggressor and uh it comes to realize
this is impossible to forgive this is
precisely the kind of education they've
had in Germany for many years even
though these children had nothing to do
with it it was their grandfathers who
who participated and not all of them
were
participants of Nazi Germany's war
against uh essentially against the world
yes and against life and therefore
they're still
apologizing apologizing is not easy they
know that they were the aggressors they
were guilty they do not look for
compromise in
history compromise in itself buys
time and they understand this there are
convicted murderers condemned both
historically and by their own
people reparations have been paid and
security guarantees have been
established by the way and all this is
done and when all this is done and
recognized in any case people develop
relations with each other that's clear
but it can only happen uh the way it
always has always has in history Russia
will have to
apologize it will this will happen
because they are guilty they are guilty
and as I told you the guilty are
different both those who participated
and and those who remain silent because
silence is also about
participating in my
opinion can I ask about Donald Trump
we've already mentioned him a lot but
let's focus there um what do you admire
what do you respect about Donald
Trump uh and also maybe why do you think
he won
overwhelmingly the election in 2024 that
American people chose him he was
Stronger he was much more stronger than
kamla Harris Biden first and then kamla
Harris yes he showed that he can he can
intellectually and
physically it was an important point to
show that if you want to have a strong
country you have to be strong and he was
strong and this number of R's what I
said is not a simple thing he showed
that he can he is strong so he he
doesn't have any questions with his I
mean this age and Etc nothing he is
Young he is Young here and his brains
work so I think I think it's important
very important and of course a lot of
interior questions I I understand the
the prices and Etc economic questions
and the questions of you have the
questions with with other things
immigration yeah a lot of things I
understand so maybe he answered answered
on those on those questions which people
had one of the questions that he will
finish the war that he will finish the
war yeah for me this is the main
question but I said that for him he's
the president of the United States for
him his priority is his questions in the
United States and I understand and I
respect it but the second he was was
speaking about the world yes he said
that he will finish the war and I hope
very
much because uh I think that that our
people really support his idea and
that's why I said it is for me it's very
very important to have enough
people around
him who will have connections with him
with the right things for me
the truth is very right
things what's going on really in the
battlefield what's going on really
with Putin and Russia what he really
wants and that is just to have it you
know before any decision you have to be
at the same level of information and we
need really we need him to know
everything from us from you from from
people in Ukraine from people around who
are really
afraid
afraid that Putin doesn't want to stop
the war afraid that he will come back
with his aggression so first of all I
should mention
that um our conversation today will be
translated and dubbed into Ukrainian
English
Russian other languages Spanish
so you're in your voice so there
are great guys originally from Poland
it's a company called 11 labs they use
they've trained an AI artificial
intelligence sounds truly remarkable in
your voice you have the freedom to speak
in any language you choose but no matter
what you will always find yourself
returning to speaking in
Ukrainian uh that is when you talk about
Donald Trump you can do it in Ukrainian
or Russian everybody understands
everybody understands
uh but you said that there's some things
about the war that maybe Americans don't
understand so we talked about
Putin we we talked about the security
guarantees but the reality of
War what's happening on the ground what
do you think that people should
understand first of all they have to
understand the idea of Putin's War it is
very important for
him I consider this process
I think it is very important for him not
to give Ukraine
independence to prevent Ukraine from
developing as an independent country for
him
influence influence on Ukraine cannot be
lost and for for him it is you know
like I think for
him this is such a goal in this last
mile
and certainly for him the last Mile and
of
his
uh of his political
life and I think that this is the goal
for him the Second
Story I do not want to talk about these
banalities that he wants to return all
the territories of the Soviet Union
influence over them he does this little
by little
I just don't want to people need to know
details for example Georgia which was
headed towards the EU and NATO
completely turns towards Russia
regardless of of the fact that they have
Frozen conflicts they have in abazia
what we have with donbas which is
controlled by militant Rebels abazia is
not developing it's just a part a very
beautiful part of Georgia that has died
and if you have the opportunity then go
there someday you will understand it
simply died because Putin wanted to he
wanted not to allow them to develop
because a frozen conflict means that you
will not be accepted in the EU and
certainly will not be accepted into NATO
because right now yes they do not take
you because of a frozen
conflict and this is what Putin did it's
very important for him not to lose this
influence that is he turned back Georgia
young people students everyone leaves
and this is a fact Georgia is quite
small and they will leave they they want
to live in Europe they want to develop
velop somebody in the United States
somebody in Europe somebody in the EU
somebody in Britain he will he will now
fight for the movan
parliament this is his second step you
will see in April what
happens you will see oh he will start
turning mdova away away from Europe
although they want to go there he does
not care they will uh be a pro-russian
party and they will do something with
the current president because she she
has has she has won the the elections
she is pro- European but he he will turn
this back the next steps are completely
clear he will do everything wherever he
was lost influence where there was
influence influence of the Soviet Union
he'll turn it back as much as possible
uh and we understand at what price you
have seen Syria you saw these tortures
what we saw in bua what we saw
everywhere we came and where our
territories were occupied in Syria the
same happened there were a thousand
people there and you have seen it
scientists were found doctors were
found it is clear that um any people are
capable of generating their own
opinion show their skills develop
Society everyone who can express an
opinion um everyone who can shape the
independence and maturity of society
such people are not needed and he wants
this in Ukraine and
therefore everyone should understand
that
Ukraine uh is like a large
wall from that Europe and if God willing
president Trump does not withdraw from
NATO because again I believe that this
is the biggest risk I think two
steps
uh two steps that
Putin would like to see is a weak NATO
and this without
Trump
and a weak Ukraine which cannot survive
on the battlefield simply cannot survive
and prevent me from building a strong
relationship with Trump I think these
two steps leaving NATO and Ukraine's
weakness will lead to a large scale
War which Putin
will wage on all the territories of that
Europe post Soviet Europe I mean Soviet
Europe not post Soviet uh but post World
War II period that is Soviet Europe
Soviet era Europe in order to completely
uh control everything there this is what
he will do and besides
this this will happen in any case even
if the us is thinking about leaving
NATO
um this war will affect the United
States because North Korea is the first
sign North Korean skills North Korean
knowledge which they are now gaining
from this war these include mastering
new technologies large scale drones
missiles how it works the kind of
technological War we have today cyber
War Etc all these skills Korea will
bring home and scale up in that region
and this will be a risk for the Pacific
region security first and foremost for
Japan and for for South Korea they will
face these risks 100% and it will be
clear that
Taiwan will also have to face
them without
this it is impossible this is already
happening this is already
happening therefore I think that
President Trump has all power to stop
Putin and give Ukraine strong security
guarantees we've been talking for two
hours at the pause you want to to take
theak yeah we will we will make a pause
we can have coffee right coffee let's do
it yeah
and give The
Interpreter he's he's struggling some
water we keep switching languages like a
dragon you know three heads three
translators so one of
the difficult decisions you had to make
When The War Began is to enact martial
law so when you won the presidency you
were the warrior for freedom in fact
this war is for freedom for uh freedom
of the individual freedom of speech
freedom of religion
freedom but a lot of freedoms had to be
curtailed sacrificed in this fight
because there's so much focus on the war
is is do you see the tension do you feel
the tension of that the sacrifice that
had to be
made in democracy in
Freedom in h in fighting this war in any
case this war is
for our freedom generally
speaking to be
honest when you understand over time
when the war passes you understand that
your main values
are at home this is your home your
children your love God willing parents
are
alive and if and if not alive than their
memory visiting their
grave choosing how to work how much
preferably choosing where to
work all this is freedom freedoms are
not just a desire they are an
opportunity in any case you are right
because war is a limitation of
opportunities in any case you fight for
these
opportunities um you your parents your
parents and
God gave you life right you fight for
your life your
life but we need to understand that
first there is a war and then martial
law is introduced martial law is not
introduced because someone wanted to you
say this is not Pinos this is not Pinos
and so on this is a completely different
story an aggressor came and according to
your legislation if the border is
violated
if there is armed aggression you have
all this written down long ago written
out in legislation you introduce martial
law and the introduction of Martial law
everywhere at all times means in any
case a restriction of opportunities if
opportunities are limited rights and
freedoms are
restricted therefore the war itself
restricts rights and freedoms yes and
you can't do anything about it we we try
honestly to
balance as much as possible I believe
that the business sector Works despite
the difficulties of the war and we do
everything somewhere you know there
somewhere to reduce some load
unfortunately we cannot reduce
taxes on the contrary a military tax is
used for war you need to take money
somewhere this by the way is about the
fact the fact that the US gave us a lot
and Europe too but compared to how much
we needed for the war this is not all as
for military salaries you know you know
that we could not pay the salaries of a
million strong Army we could not pay it
using the money from our partners these
are all expenses this is all the money
that the country and people have
accumulated you can't do anything I
really want to reduce taxes I will tell
you frankly I really want to well I
think that the whole new tax system new
deregulation new steps new reforms all
this will be after the war although
there is something to brag about this is
proof and
this this is a document because if you
want to get a um candidacy for European
Union you must implement the appropriate
number of reforms we do
everything during the war we voted for
many reforms including anti-corruption
banking reforms land reforms major
reforms we started a large privatization
and the war did not stop us yes it
slowed down but we went through a lot
when do you think you will hold
elections because for people who don't
know part of the martial law elections
were suspended and they were delayed and
delayed and delayed and I think the next
sort of plan is in February of uh
2025 but when do you think there would
be presidential elections in
Ukraine elections were postponed once
they were not delayed to be clear
elections did not take place in 2024
that year first of all we need to
understand the Constitution they were
scheduled to be held in the spring of
2024 do to martial law under the
Constitution you cannot do
this these These are the presidential
elections the Parliamentary
elections did not take place in the fall
of 2024 according to the
Constitution yes there are security
things there is the Constitution but
there are security things that is
everyone in Ukraine understands that
this cannot be done until the war is
over or legislation needs to be changed
I believe that elections will take place
immediately after the end of Martial law
this is according to the law or members
of the parliament need to get together
and change legislation which will be
will be very difficult to do because
Society is against it why is society
against
it uh it is understandable why because
we want
elections that we want to trust
8.5 million people went
abroad um the infrastructure needs to be
created for these millions of people to
vote millions of people in the occupied
territories I'm not even talking about
the occupation of
2014 I'm talking about the occupation
right
now what to do with these
people this is a difficult question and
one of the most unfair ones is how to
vote without having a ion
soldiers that is it is impossible we
need to think about how to change the
system if the elections are held in
times of War change the legislation
which should include changes to the
voting system to think about online
voting everyone is
afraid because of certain attacks like
cyber
attacks and so on but we need to think
about it I really think that it's
possible that we can end the war in
2025 in January oh we've already agreed
on it I would very much like to I would
very much like to after after the war
and
immediately yes immediately in the year
of the end of the war it's a fact why
because when martial law ends you can
immediately vote in Parliament to hold
elections and then every everyone
everyone will
vote because there are no restrictive
measures and after they vote I think
elections can be held in 90 days
something something like that yes and
this means that immediately after the
end of the war elections may take place
in 90 days are you
running for reelection even I don't know
really I don't know I don't know it is a
very difficult question
it depends on how this war will finish
it depends on what people will
want mostly it
depends on people first of all and of
course my
family we had no time to speak about it
with with my family and and of course
didn't have a chance because we we don't
think about it now mean it's something
you know there a lot of uh some not a
lot of but enough voices in Ukraine from
politicians opposition and
Etc about this so I guess but but we
don't think really seriously didn't
think seriously with my family about it
so This Is War I mean how to think about
what will be after it's very difficult
really very difficult if we look at the
field of candidates uh I just maybe you
can give your opinion about the set of
ideas you see out there including your
own about the future of Ukraine as I
understand uh the candidates include
penko zus aoic banov Klitschko many
others this is the internet speaking to
me what do you think of the space of
ideas that these candidates represent
you know I think it can be there can be
even a bigger number of candidates yeah
we I I I don't really know what will be
they have rights to participate if they
want to yes if they really want to and
can they they can go and do what they
want
honestly most important is what are they
doing now I think that all these people
are the famous Ukrainian people and and
it's and it's important for them to do
everything they can today not begin any
uh election campaign I think this what
can divide our people to have the
elections you know during the War I mean
this make steps speak about elections a
lot you know make a big mess about it I
I think this is not right that's why I'm
not agreeing with some of these people
but they they can and they I I think
that they can and maybe some of them
will and it's okay it's normal it's very
normal our system differs from the
system in the United States you have two
parties and the parties decide who will
be the leader and in Ukraine everybody
can participate let
them you think you're going to win the
debate you versus Z penko
oric and you decide to run do you think
you're going to win the debate or you're
again focused on the war and every I'm
really focusing on the war and I think I
think the the most difficult debate is
what will be brought to the table and we
spoke about it it will be during the war
how to finish the War I think that is my
goal because it will be one of my most
complicated debates and for any
president who is in a war of course but
I think this is my goal to win those
debates and the other things are not not
for today as I said the dream I have
is it's a historic opportunity to make
peace to make lasting peace soon so I'm
glad you're focused on that let me ask a
question about that a lot of people in
the United States think
about uh and I I care a lot about about
the future of Ukraine is corruption this
is something you have cared a lot about
for a long time you won the presidency
2019 in big part your message of
fighting corruption but there's a lot of
accusations that during war I mentioned
$9 trillion dollar in the United
States war breeds
corruption so can you speak to that how
you have been fighting corruption and
you can you respond to the accusations
there has been corruption in Ukraine you
know it's very simple first of
all we really have a very sophisticated
anti-corruption system sophisticated not
in the sense that it's difficult to
understand but in that it really
consists of many elements it's the most
sophisticated in all of Europe this is
another requirement of the European
Union it was a requirement for uh
Ukraine and for many years Ukraine was
not trusted I want to tell you that
under me we all voted for bills all the
anti-corruption reforms all well almost
all reforms and all anti-corruption
bodies today are independent they work
as requested I still believe that they
are not perfect yet there are many
issues there is a Judicial System but
also a Judicial reform that our partners
the United States plus the EU demanded
from us this is all written out this is
written out in specific laws in specific
decrees in specific decisions we did
this we've done 99% of this if something
has not been done it means that it is on
the way but in principle all this exists
and there is no such system as we have
in Europe to say that we do not have
corruption would be lying we just talk
about it openly we are genuinely
fighting against it look we have sitting
in our prison ehor
kosi who is the most U influential
Ukrainian oligarch since Independence
and no one could do anything about him
the United States of America wanted to
have kosi and they went to Great Lengths
because of money laundering Etc there
are criminal cases in the United States
I think in Delaware something like that
neither Europe could do anything about
it that is we did a lot with oligarchs
Russian oligarchs sanctions were imposed
they were thrown out some of them fled
the state but they are all they are all
under sanctions we exchanged some of
them for our soldiers such as medvid
chuk to whose daughter Putin is
Godfather that is we fought against the
strongest influential
oligarchs
which um are and were in Ukraine and we
eliminated a lot of Corruption of course
corruption exists in everyday life it
exists but institutionally I am sure
that Ukraine will overcome all this this
takes a little time time I would say
honestly
that listen what we call
corruption and in some state of the
world is called lobbyism but this does
not mean that there is no corruption
there let's take the aid you mentioned
during the war first of all we have no
money we
have no money except for the war
we received weapons from the United
States of America from Europe if we take
for example money from the United States
of
America during all this time of the war
around 177 billion have been voted for
or decided
upon 177
billion let's be
honest we have not received half of this
money
the second point which is very important
just as an example is it
corruption the first
question who's corruption this is the
second here is just one small example
for you when the United States began to
transfer Us weapons it was American
money but American weapons money for
these
weapons I had as a president I had cargo
Jets not in Ukraine because of the war
we moved them very quickly to Europe we
had cargo we have good cargo Fleet very
good of or because of
Antonov so I
asked American side to grant me the
opportunity because our jets are at uh
another yeah Airfield and I asked
America to give me the
opportunity to use our jets for transfer
not to pay a lot to whom to your
companies to American companies no I
didn't get this
opportunity my Jets stayed put and the
United States Jets cargo Jets move these
weapons but everywhere you have to spend
money so
we could get more weapons but we have to
pay for this very
expensive Fleet my
question is this corruption or not or
lobbyism
what is it you mean corruption on the
part of the com us companies yes making
such decisions yes I got it the lobbying
for such decisions involves some
companies that make these decisions but
I can't be open about it and I couldn't
speak loudly about it I didn't want I
didn't want nor did I intend to cause
any scandals to arise because otherwise
you can freeze the support and that's it
and that's why when we talk about
corruption we must ask who is
involved if we had 177 and if we get the
half where is the
half if you will find the second half
you will find corruption there is a
perception of corruption uh people like
Donald Trump and Elon Musk really care
uh about fighting
corruption uh what can you say to them
to gain their trust that the money is
going towards this fight for Freedom
towards the war effort in most cases we
did not receive money we received
weapons and where we saw risks that
something could be happening with
weapons we crack down hard on everyone
and believe me this is not only about
Ukraine everywhere along the supply
chain there are some or other people and
companies who want to make money they
try to make money on the war we did not
profit from the war if we caught someone
believe me we crack down hard on them
and and we did that we did that and we
will continue to do so because because
to this day when someone says that
Ukraine was selling weapons and by the
way Russia was the one pushing this
narrative we always responded our
soldiers would kill such people with
their own hands without any trial do you
honestly think anyone could steal
weapons by the truckload when we
ourselves don't have enough on the front
lines and yet we have to provide proof
to defend ourselves because when there's
an abundance of such
misinformation distrust starts to
grow and you're right people listen to
various media Outlets see this and lose
faith in you in the end you lose lose
trust and with it you lose
support therefore believe me we are
fighting more against disinformation
than against particular cases although I
still emphasize once again at the
everyday level such things are still
important we catch these these people
and we fight
them I mentioned Elon Musk I would be
interested to hear what you think of him
why you respect him as a
person as an engineer as an innovator as
a businessman I would just like to hear
from you what do you think about Elon
Musk first of all I had a conversation
with him at the beginning of the
war I talked with
him uh I respect him first and
foremost I respect the self-made man
right in English I love such people you
know no one and nothing fell into to
their lap but the man did something did
it all himself I worked myself created a
big production company and I know what
it means to make money to make money to
select talented people to impart
knowledge to them to invest money and to
create something something important for
certain people you know and I'm not I'm
not comparing myself to musk he just
well
the man is a great leader of Innovations
in the
world and I believe that such people
move the world
forward therefore I respect the result
of his
work and we see this result and for me
it has always been important that your
result can be used that these are not
words but facts let's take the
war um we are very grateful for
starlink it has helped we used it after
Russian missile attacks on the energy
infrastructure there were problems with
the internet Etc with connection we used
Starling both at the front and in
kindergardens it was used in schools it
helped children we used it in various
infrastructure and it helped us very
much and I would very much like uh Elon
to be
uh on our side as much as possible to to
support us and yes I am grateful to him
for starlink truly I am first of
all so that our guys have a connection
and children
too and I am really I am really grateful
to him for that I think we need I would
like him to come to Ukraine to talk to
people
here and to look around
and so on has Elon visited Kiev or
Ukraine yet no I hope the Kev airport
will open soon then it will it will be
easier to fly in yes I am uh I am
looking forward to it maybe we will open
it but only and you must understand if
the war is over there must be
sustainable peace and air defense
systems to be honest and we must ensure
that they are long lasting and effective
let's take the airport for example and
let's focus on the airport in jesha
which you know very well as it is
handling important cargo for Ukraine in
Poland and there are Patriot systems
there because everyone understands what
the risk is well Russia is a risk and
therefore we need air defense systems
and today today take for example the air
defense
system of one city or another that is
being shelled and move it move it to the
airport well that would be dishonest
people are more important than
planes but there will be a moment and
Trump by the way I think that the war
will end and president
Trump may be the first leader to travel
here by airplane I think it would be it
would be symbolic by airplane again
January 25th around that date right
flying in meeting the Air Force One that
would be cool Elon Musk I will meet you
there for the second time too on the
plane with pleasure and you by the way
before forget let me ask are you coming
on January 20th for president Trump's
inauguration I would like to of
course I will be
considering what is happening then in
the war because there are moments of
difficulties escalation many missiles
Etc but honestly well I can't I can't
come especially during the war unless
president Trump invites me personally
I'm not sure it's proper to come because
I know that in general leaders are for
some reason not usually invited to the
inauguration of
presidents of the United States of
America well and I know that there are
leaders who can simply come want to come
and will
come yeah I know and I know the
temperament of some of these people they
can come at their discretion this is
very very difficult for me I am the kind
of person that cannot come without an
invitation this is Putin we did not
invite him he came to us so to say and
me I can't do that no but didn't he
publicly say that it would be great if
you came to the inauguration or you mean
did he invite it officially no wait look
look look listen I am against any
bureaucracy I get rid of it as as much
as I can but well you know there are
some complexities involving security I
decide and I fly and the United States
of America officially provides security
not that I need this mind you I do not
ask for helicopters to fly around and
protect me but they will simply do it
themselves the security service itself
they had to do it I don't want it and
sometimes I don't need it and I'm asking
them it was for example Before the
War I think yes it was before Before the
War I just I just I had a meeting yes
with President trump it was in 2019 I
just wanted just wanted to go for a run
early in the morning because I really
wanted to exercise and they those tall
bodyguards a lot of them they decided to
join me but I couldn't really do it
because they were in suits and I was in
sportsware I said no I can't it's always
funny I'm not I don't want to you know I
don't want to disturb anybody and cause
anyone problems with me and that's
that's why if he if he will invite
me I will come I thought he invited you
yeah yeah I thought he publicly invited
you but okay I hope to see you there I
think they had to to I mean to do some
of their steps I don't know but step
yeah the stamp was missing yeah but with
pleasure with my wife of course and and
I think it's important it's
important all right let's get back to a
serious question sometimes they say it
in America this question of who is
really in power so let me ask is someone
controlling you for example
oligarchs American
politicians
y I wanted to bringing this up because I
have been here in Ukraine
since the twice since the invasion of
2022 and one of the things I've learned
well is that actually nobody controls
you and this is this is one of your
strengths as a president as a person
that
oligarchs and other rich and powerful
people like that cannot control you can
you explain why that is how you see it I
think and it is indeed
true that I'm generally difficult to
deal with I
am an ambitious
person I can't submit to
anyone I can live by Rules by laws I
believe that this is the only thing that
can control any person today these are
the rules and
laws of the society or state where you
live and I believe that this is the most
important thing
there's no person who could control me
as I once told president Trump when we
had a meeting by the way journalists
asked if Trump influenced me during the
phone call I told him I told the
journalist the truth then who can
influence me only my my boy my son this
is a fact when he calls asking for
something well then I lift up my arms
yes and I cannot do anything about it
because children are children I have
have so little time with them and
therefore when there are these moments
they are precious and important to me I
am ready to do
anything also probably my
parents they are an authority for
me beyond that I view it more as a
system no one can control the president
therefore we have oligarchs who either
fled or are in prison because oligarchs
usually control cash flows and people
and influence politics and we have
concrete examples with sentences they
are not just under house arrest not just
that there are some judgments under
which their assets were frozen or
sanctions were imposed there are
specific people who are behind
bars I think this is the answer
regarding the influence would they like
to influence me in the same way as any
president of Ukraine because finance and
cash flows always influence politics
well at least they want to do
this this is regarding the
influence and other people on the
vertical
day perform tasks as my my managers
Andre you mentioned is one of those
managers well I am glad that I have such
people well probably there is nothing
else to add here I will just say that
your team that I spoke with is an
excellent team excellent people thank
you okay one last question the future of
Ukraine if you look 5 10 20 years into
the future what can help Ukraine
flourish economically culturally
politically in the future digital it's
very important digitalization of all the
process we began this work we have
special Ministry of digital
transformation yeah so this is very good
and we also have our Dia this is the
name for all of these Services yeah so I
think that is the most important this is
again this is not only convenient that
will cancel all the any possibilities
for future corruption because you don't
have any you know you don't have any
personal connections with people in the
government or elsewhere so you're just
on your phone or any other device that's
it and I think we are doing very well we
are the best in Europe all of Europe
recognizes it some countries of the
African Union asked us to provide this
the same service and we will do it after
the war immediately and I think that we
can bring money to Ukraine from this and
I think what we also need we need a tax
reform I think it will be very important
for the businesses to return a lot of
support will come I think from USA
business investment not not as direct
Aid to us just to the private sector and
resources and I mentioned this to
president Trump and to some European
leaders who are our key strategic
partners that we'll be happy especially
with the Americans we'll be happy to
sign these contracts and engage in joint
investments in many
areas and and I think we can we can
develop oil gas green energy including
solar power and we already have the
resources we can invest money into this
we have oil reserves in the Black Sea
that we can we can exploit and we need
your uh expertise and the investment of
your companies we have gold and ranium
reserves the largest in Europe by the
way which is also very important for
example Russia has pushed France Out of
Africa they urgently need uranium which
we have so we are ready to open up for
invest ments and this will give us of
course opportunities jobs for people
Revenue I don't want cheap labor
honestly what I truly want especially
after the war to open up for those
people who can really
contribute and earn yes and give a
reason to the 8 million people to come
back yes it's so important and they will
come and we will recover and rebuild
Ukraine we will will be very open to
companies and of course we will welcome
our people back it's so important
culturally I think the most important
thing is to remain open and not change
our Direction because culturally
aligning with Russia it's one idea while
aligning with Europe is another our
people have chosen Europe it's their
choice it's our choice the choice of our
nation and I think it's very important
but first you have to end the war yes
you're right and we will we want peace
you know I mean just to make it clear we
want peace just what I always say you
have to come to Ukraine and see for
yourself and people will tell you no we
can't
forgive those murderers who took
our our lives but we still want to make
peace and honestly I think that the
highest approval rating of the president
of the United States of trump
now is in
Ukraine people really believe that he
can truly help bring peace now they have
faith faith that he can make it happen
that he can support Ukraine and he can
stop Putin and that he will make sure
Putin doesn't get everything he
wants this is very important and it's
why we believe that we must not lose
this opportunity I hope you find the
path to peace thank you thank you so
much thank you for talking thank you for
coming yeah you you
started thank you very
much thank you for listening to this
conversation with the president of
Ukraine Vladimir
zalinski and now let me answer some
questions and and try to reflect on and
articulate some things I've been
thinking about if you would like to
submit questions including in audio and
video form go to Lex freeman.com
or to contact me for whatever other
reason go to Lex freeman.com
Conta first I got a bunch of questions
about this so let me chat about the
topic of language and let's say the
mechanics of multilingual
conversation perhaps the details are
interesting to some people it also
allows me to reflect back on the puzzle
of it in this episode and what I can do
better next
time I already explained in the intro
the symbolic historic and geopolitical
complexity of the choice of language in
the conversation with President zalinski
as I said the Russian language is one
that the president speaks fluently and
was his primary language for most of his
life I speak Russian fluently as well
it's the only common language we are
both fluent in so any other combination
of languages required an interpreter
including when I spoke English he did
need an interpreter when I spoke English
and just like I was was visibly
encumbered and annoyed by the process of
interpretation this is why I tried to
speak in Russian to the president
instead of English so that he can
directly understand me without an
interpreter I'm willing to take the hit
for that as I am for everything else I'm
not trying to protect myself I'm trying
to do whatever is best for the
conversation for understanding though it
has been getting harder and harder to
stay open vulnerable and raw in public
while the Swarms of chanting internet
mobs stop by with their torches and
their color-coded hats Flags frogs
pronouns and
hashtags anyway there is a lot of nuance
aspects of the conversational language
that I would like to explain here I'll
try to be brief uh I can recommend a lot
of books on this topic of language and
communication that reveal just how
amazing this technology of language is
for example for a good overview I
recommend John mccarter's books and
especially his lecture series for the
Great Courses on language there are
several in the story of human language
series he gives a great discussion on
spoken language versus written language
and that spoken language often relaxes
the rules of communication it uh uses
shorter packets of words loads in a
bunch of subtle cues and meanings all of
which like I'm trying to describe uh are
lost when there's an interpreter in the
loop let me also describe some relevant
characteristics of my peculiar language
abilities in quotes I was never good at
speaking I listen think and understand
better than I speak for me this is true
for both English and Russian but it is
especially true for Russian the Russian
language allows for much more room for
wit non-standard terms of phrase
metaphors humor rhyme musicality and
let's say deforming of words that create
a lot of room for creativity and how
meaning and emotion are conveyed you
could do the same in English but it's
harder I actually find that uh Brits are
sometimes very good at this like one of
my favorite humans to talk to is Douglas
Murray sending the content of the
conversation aside the sheer linguistic
Brilliance and wit of dialogue with
Douglas is a journey in
itself I think uh Christopher Hitchens
had the same and many others like I said
especially
Brits anyway I'm uh able to detect and
understand a lot of dynamism in humor in
the Russian language but I'm slow to
generate it in part because I just don't
practice I have very few Russian
speaking friends funny enough most of
them are Ukrainian but they speak with
me and each other in
Russian but of course as I mentioned
this is slowly changing due to the
war but I tried to speak to the
president in Russian so he would avoid
needing an interpreter as much as
possible one of the things I want to
improve Pro for next time is to make
sure I get very good equipment for
interpretation and arrange for an
interpreter I trust to be exceptionally
good for the dynamism and the endurance
of a three-hour conversation in the
style that I tried to do just to give
you some behind the scenes details of
the experience so equipment wise funny
enough it's not actually so trivial to
set up wireless connections from us the
two people talking to The Interpreter
and then back to us in a way that's
super robust and has clean audio the
Audio I had in my ear from The
Interpreter had a loud background noise
so the whole time I'm hearing a sh sound
with the voice of The Interpreter coming
in very
quietly what a wonderful
experience this whole life is
frankly plus his translation was often
incomplete at least for me so I had to
put together those puzzle pieces
continuously but again it worked out and
hopefully our constant switching of
languages and having a metad discussion
about language provided good insights as
to the complexity of this fight for a
nation's identity and sovereignty that
Ukraine is going through behind the
scenes off mic on a personal level
president zalinski was funny thoughtful
and just a kind-hearted person and
really the whole team were just great
people it was an experience I'll never
forget after the conversation was
recorded the next challenge was to
translate all of this and overdub it and
do it super quickly like these words I'm
speaking now have to be translated and
dubbed into Ukrainian and
Russian 11 Labs were really helpful here
especially in bringing the president's
voice to life in different languages but
even more than that there're just an
amazing team who inspired me and
everyone involved please go support 11
labs they are a great company and great
people the translation is separate from
the text of speech and was done in part
by Ai and a lot by human this is where
the fact that we had constant switching
between three languages was a real
challenge so there are six transition
mappings that have to be done English to
Ukrainian and Russian Ukrainian to
English and Russian and then Russian to
English and
Ukrainian continuously sentence by
sentence sometimes word by word and each
combination of language to language
translation is best done by a person who
specializes in that kind of mapping so
it was all a beautiful mess all of it
and on top of all that great translation
is super hard for example I've read and
listened to a lot of thef ski both
English and Russian and study the
process of how these books are
translated by various translators you
can spend a week discussing how to
translate a single important sentence
well obviously in this situation we
don't have weeks we have hours for the
whole thing one of the things I regret
is not putting enough time into the
hiring and selecting great translators
from Russian and Ukrainian to English
especially I think translation is an art
and so getting a good translator that
works well with us is a process that
needs more time and effort I'll be doing
that more this
month by the way we have a small but
amazing team if you want to join us go
to Lex freeman.com hiring if you're
passionate work hard and everyone on the
team loves working with you then we'll
do some epic stuff together we love to
work with you like I said about 11 Labs
there are a few things as awesome in
life as being able to work hard with an
amazing team towards a mission all of us
are passionate about anyway I'll
probably be doing a few more interviews
in the Russian language I do have a
lingering goal of interviewing the
mathematician gor pran but there's also
others I will also work on improving my
whole pipeline both equipment wise and
interpreter wise in doing these
conversations in other languages because
there are many that I would like to do
in languages I don't speak at all like
Chinese Mandarin or Spanish Arabic Hindi
Portuguese french German I see language
as both a barrier for communication and
a portal into understanding the spirit
of a people connected by that language
it's all a weird and beautiful puzzle
and I'm just excited to get the chance
to explore it all right I got a question
on how I prepare for podcasts so this
has uh evolved and expanded more and
more over time there are some podcasts
that I prepare hundreds of hours for in
AI terms let's say first I'm training a
solid background model by consuming as
much variety on the topic as possible a
lot of this comes down to picking High
signal sources whether there's blogs
books podcasts YouTube videos X accounts
and so on for this conversation with
president zalinski for example since
February 2022 I've spoken with hundreds
of people on the ground I've read Kindle
or audiobook about 10 books fully and
then I
skimmed about 20 more and I don't mean
books about zalinski although he does
appear in some of them I mean books
where this conversation was fully in the
back of my mind as I'm reading the book
so for example I read red famine by an
apple Bal it's about
hore does it directly relate to zilinski
not on the surface no but it sort of
continues to weave the fabric of my
understanding of a people of the history
of the region but it's really important
for me to read books from various
perspectives and I'm always trying to
calculate the bias under which the
author operates and adjusting for that
in my brain as I integrate the
information for example an apple bomb's
book goog is very different from
Alexander solon's gulock
archipelago the former is a rigorous
comprehensive historical account the
latter is a literary psychological and
personal portrait of Soviet Society both
I think are extremely valuable on the
bias front for example the rise and fall
of the Third Reich by William sh is a
good example it is full of bias but he
was there and to me he has written
probably one of the greatest if not the
greatest books book on the Third Reich
ever but like I said it has a lot of
inaccuracies and biases you can read
about them online if you like but my job
in this case and in all cases is to
adjust based on my understanding of the
author's biases and take the wisdom from
the text where it could be found and uh
putting the inaccuracies aside into the
proverbial dust bins of
History so I'm reading I'm writing down
my thoughts as they come up always
digging for some deeper insight about
human nature
if I'm at my computer I'll write it down
in Google
doc sometimes use notion or obsidian if
I'm not on my computer I'll use Google
keep so for example if I'm listening to
an audiobook and I running along the
river if a good idea comes to mind I'll
stop think for a few seconds and then do
speech to text note in uh Google keep by
the way listening to audiobook at 1X
Speed Old School
and eventually I get a gigantic pile of
thoughts and notes that I look over to
refresh my memory but for the most part
I just throw them out it's a background
model building process by the way llms
are increasingly becoming useful here
for organization purposes but have not
yet uh been useful at least for me and I
do try a lot for insight extraction or
Insight generation purposes I should
mention that my memory for specific
facts names dates quotes is terrible
what I remember well is high level ideas
that's just how my brain works for
Better or For Worse I realize that
sometimes forgetting all of the
details and the words needed to express
them makes me sound simplistic and even
unprepared I'm not but that's life we
have to accept our flaws and roll with
them aside from books I also listen to a
lot of podcasts and you videos where
people are talking about the topic so
for the president zalinsky episode I
listen probably to hundreds of hours of
content from his supporters and from his
critics from all sides again I choose
who to listen to based not on their
perspective but based on SNR signal to
noise ratio if I'm regularly getting
insights from a person I will continue
listening to them whether I agree or
disagree in the end this turns out to be
a lot of hours of prep but to say that
it's X hours per episode is not accurate
because a lot of this preparation
transfers from one guest to another even
when there's an insane level of variety
in the guests we're all humans after all
there is a thread that connects all of
it together somehow if you look closely
enough for more technical guests in stem
Fields I'll read papers a lot of papers
and also technical blog posts and
Technical tweet threads this is a very
different process for AI or CS related
topics I will run other people's code I
will write my own Implement stuff from
scratch if it's a software company I'll
use their tools and software if relevant
but in the actual conversation I
constantly am searching for simple but
profound insights at various levels of
abstraction sometimes this means asking
a trivial question in hopes of
uncovering the non-trivial
counterintuitive but fundamental idea
that opens the door to a whole new way
of looking at the field and actually
every guest is their own puzzle like
preparing for Rick Rubin was me
listening to hundreds of songs he
produced and even learning some on
guitar like Hurt by Johnny Cash
preparing for the cursor Team episode
meant obviously I had to use cursor
fully for several weeks all of its
features so I switched completely from
vsod to curser for Paul rosley round two
especially I literally went deep into
the jungle with Paul and almost died uh
fully taking the leap toward adventure
with him when it gets close to the
conversation I'll start working on the
actual interview questions and notes and
there I'm asking myself what am I
personally curious
about like I love podcasts I'm a big fan
of many many podcasts and so I asked
myself what would I want this person to
explain on a podcast and maybe what ask
aspect of their thought process or their
Humanity would I want to be surfaced or
have the chance to be
surfaced in the actual conversation I
always try to put my ego aside
completely and do whatever it takes to
have a good conversation and serve The
Listener this means asking questions
simply trying to Define terms and give
context if needed being openminded
vulnerable curious and challenging the
guests when needed despite the claim on
the internet I do ask a lot of
challenging questions including
follow-ups but always with empathy I
don't need to be right I don't need to
Signal my moral or intellectual
superiority to anyone I try to do the
opposite actually because I want the
guest to open up and I trust the
intelligence of The Listener to see for
themselves if the guest is full of
or not to detect the flaws and the
strengths of how the guest thinks or who
they are deep down
a lot of times when interviewers Grill
the guest it doesn't reveal much except
give a dopamine hit to the echo Chambers
who hate the
guest as I said in the intro I believe
the line between good and evil does run
through the heart of every
man the resulting conversations are
sometimes a failure sometimes because
they're are too short sometimes because
the chemistry was just not working
sometimes because I it
up I try to take risks give it
everything I got and enjoy the roller
coaster of it all no matter what and as
I said I trust the listener to put it
all together and I trust the critic to
tear it apart and I love you all for
it all right I got a bit of a fun
question it's a long one so Delian cool
name uh wrote in saying he spotted me
out in the wild and had a question about
it he wrote I saw Lex working at the
Detroit airport between flights I
hesitated and ultimately decided not to
interrupt since he was in Focus mode
true Lex had his headphones earbuds on
listening to Brown noise uh Microsoft
Surface propped up at eye level Kinesis
Advantage keyboard on the table the use
of Microsoft Windows is surprising but
it has been discussed in the past true
the ergonomics of the setup surface at
eye level means that Lex cares about his
health but uh anomalously large Kinesis
Advantage keyboard seems like such a
burden to Lug around airports I cannot
help but ask why is it that Lex is going
through the hassle to bring this
absolutely large keyboard with him as
carryon it barely fits in a
backpack carrying it around must be
necessary for Lex for some reason I love
the puzzle of this that you were trying
to think through this uh the pain of
lugging this tool around must be much
smaller than the problem it solves for
him question mark what problem does this
keyboard solve
what makes it necessary at the airport
productivity Health
RSI good questions thank you Delan great
question it made me smile so I thought
I'd answer I remember that day there was
something else about that day aside from
the keyboard that uh I miss so I am
filled with a Melancholy feeling that is
appropriate for the holiday season so
let me uh try to set The Melancholy
feeling aside answer a question about my
computer setup when I'm traveling so
whether I'm going to SF Boston Austin
London or the front in Ukraine I am
always bringing the Kinesis
keyboard I don't have RSI or any other
health issues of that kind that I'm
aware of even though I've been
programming playing
guitar uh doing all kinds of Combat
Sports my whole life all of which put my
hands and fingers in a lot of precarious
positions and
situations for that reason and in
general ergonomics have never been a big
concerned for me I can work on a crappy
chair and uh table sleep on the floor
it's all great I'm happy with all of it
so why Kinesis which by the way is right
here I had to think about it your
question actually made me reflect and I
was hoping as I'm answering it the truth
will come out on many levels so it is
true that I'm more productive with it I
can type and correct mistakes very fast
compared to a regular keyboard both in
natural language typing and in
programming so fast enough I think where
it feels like I can think freely without
the physical bottlenecks and constraints
of fingers
moving uh the
the bit rate in newlink par Lance is
high enough for me to not feel like
there is cognitive friction of any kind
but the real answer may be the deeper
more honest answer or something else
I've used the Kinesis keyboard for over
20 years so maybe it's like one of those
love stories where a guy and a girl love
each
other and uh you try to quit because it
doesn't quite work but every time you
leave you ask yourself why and then you
realize that uh when you're together
your life is just full of simple Joys so
what's the point of leaving what's the
point of life if not to keep close to
you the things that bring you Joy Delan
like this keyboard it brings me joy it's
a bad
metaphor uh over anthropomorphized
perhaps but I never promised a good one
I'm like a cheap motel on a road trip
low quality is part of the
charm I do have some good Motel stories
for another time this does not feel like
the appropriate time all that said uh to
disagree with myself I did use emex also
for over 20 years and in a single week
recently switched to VSS code and then
cursor and never looked back so take my
romantic nature with a grain of
salt so yes eventually I'll have to
leave but for now you'll keep finding me
on occasion in a random airport
Somewhere listening to Brown noise
writing away the hours on this Kinesis
keyboard
now if you see me without it uh maybe
it'll give you the same Tang of
melancholy feeling I feel now in looking
back to that airport in
Detroit anyway more about my travel
setup if anyone is curious I usually do
travel with a Windows laptop but I am
mostly using Linux on it through WSL
windows subsystem for Linux and in some
case some dual booting Linux and windows
I also need to be able to Video Edit so
on longer trips I usually have a bigger
laptop with a bigger screen lots of
memory good CPU good GPU all of that
helps with video editing on Adobe
Premiere in general I'm extremely
minimalist except for the few let's call
them sentimental things like all my
podast recording equipment fits into a
small suitcase I try to keep it as
simple as possible thank you for the
question
and uh see you at the next
airport all right I think it's time to
bring things to a close I'd like to give
a big thanks to you for giving me your
time and your support over the years it
means the world if you want to get in
touch with me go to lex.com cont there
you can get feedback ask questions
request guests for the podcast or submit
the coffee with Lex form if you just
want to chat with me over a cup of
coffee I'll be traveling across the
world a bunch this year from Europe to
South America and more so it would be
cool to do some small meetups and meet
some interesting people this has been a
journey of a lifetime thank you for
everything on to the next adventure I
love you all