Kind: captions
Language: en
I hope the key of airport will open soon
then it will it will be easier to fly in
yes I think that the war will end and
president
Trump may be the first leader to travel
here by airplane I think it would be it
would be symbolic by airplane again
January 25th around that date right
flying in meeting the Air Force One that
would be cool there is a perception of
corruption uh people like Donald Trump
and Elon Musk really
care uh about fighting
corruption uh what can you say to them
to gain their trust that the money is
going towards this fight for Freedom
towards the war effort in most cases we
did not receive money we received
weapons and where we saw risks that
something could be happening with
weapons we crack down hard on everyone
and believe me this is not only about
Ukraine everywhere along the supply
chain there are some or other people and
companies who want to make money they
try to make money on the war we did not
profit from the war if we caught someone
believe me we crack down hard on them
and and we did that we did that and we
will continue to do so because because
to this day when someone says that
Ukraine was selling weapons and by the
way Russia was the one pushing this
narrative we always responded our
soldiers would kill kill such people
with their own hands without any trial
do you honestly think anyone could steal
weapons by the truckload when we
ourselves don't have enough on the front
lines and yet we have to provide proof
to defend ourselves because when there's
an abundance of such
misinformation distrust starts to
grow and you're right people listen to
various media Outlets see this and lose
faith in you in the end you lose trust
and with it you lose
support therefore believe me we are
fighting more against disinformation
than against particular cases although I
still emphasize once again at the
everyday level such things are still
important we catch these these people
and we fight
them as if Putin wants to sit down and
talk but Ukraine does not
this is not true I think that yes he is
in fact ready to talk did you talk to
him on the phone or what how do you
normally talk to him I don't know
normally by the Sea the same as with you
he invites you to the sea with me just
the three of us no no one of us may
drown who are you good at swimming yes I
am a good swimmer you're a good swimmer
well if you think that the president of
a
country is completely crazy it is really
hard to come to to an agreement with him
you have to look at him as a serious
person who loves his country and loves
the people in his country and he
conducts yes destructive military AC who
are you talking about now who loves his
country Putin do you think he doesn't
love his
country no what is his country he
happened to consider Ukraine his country
what is his country when do you think
there will be presidential elections in
Ukraine the following is a conversation
with Vladimir zalinski the president of
Ukraine it was an intense raw and
heartfelt conversation my goal for which
was to understand and to do all I can to
push for
peace please allow me to say a few words
first about language then about the
president and finally about history
please skip ahead straight to our
conversation if you like we spoke in a
mix of languages continuously switching
from Ukrainian to Russian to English so
uh The Interpreter was barely hanging on
it was indeed in many ways a wild ride
of a conversation as the president said
the first of many language like many
other things in a time of war is a big
deal we had a choice speaking Russian
Ukrainian or English the president does
speak some English but but he's far from
fluent in it and I sadly don't speak
Ukrainian yet so Russian is the only
common language we are both fluent in in
case you don't know the Russian language
is one that the president speaks
fluently and was his primary language
for most of his life it's the language I
also speak fluently to the degree I
speak any language fluently as does a
large fraction of the Ukrainian
population so the most dynamic and Power
ful conversation between us would be in
Russian without an interpreter who in
this case added about 2 to three second
delay and frankly translated partially
and poorly for me at least taking away
my ability to feel the humor the wit the
Brilliance the pain the anger the
humanity of the person sitting before me
that I could clearly feel when he was
speaking fluently in the language I
understand Russian but all that that
said war changes everything the
Ukrainian language has become a symbol
of the Ukrainian people's fight for
freedom and
Independence so we had a difficult
choice of three languages and faced with
that choice we said yes to all three to
the uh consternation and dismay of the
translators we make captions and uh
voice over audio tracks available in
English UK Ukrainian and Russian so you
can listen either to a version that is
all one language or to the original
mixed language version with subtitles in
your preferred language the default is
English over dub on YouTube you can
switch between language audio tracks by
clicking the settings gear icon then
clicking audio track and then selecting
the language you prefer English
Ukrainian Russian to listen to the
original mixed language version please
select the English UK audio
track big thank you to L labs for their
help with overdubbing using a mix of AI
and humans we will continue to explore
how to break down the barriers that
language creates with AI and otherwise
this is a difficult but important
Endeavor language after all is much more
than a cold sequence of facts and logic
statements there are words
when spoken in the right sequence and at
the right time they can shake the world
and turn the ties of history that can
start and end
Wars great leaders can find those words
and great translators can help these
words reverberate to the outskirts of a
divided
civilization on another note let me say
that president zalinski is a truly
remarkable person and a historic
figure I say this as somebody who deeply
understands the geopolitical complexity
and history of the region I am from this
region my parents were both born in
Ukraine Kev and harv both my
grandfathers
too I was born in Tajikistan and lived
for a time there then in Kiev then
Moscow then United
States and while I am now for almost 30
years and to the the day I die I am a
proud American my family Roots grow deep
in the soil of Nations that comprised
the Soviet Union including Ukraine
Russia bellarus and Tajikistan I've
gotten to know and have spoken for hours
with members of the president's team and
people close to him I spoke to hundreds
of ukrainians since 2022 including
solders civilians politicians artists
religious leaders journalists economists
historians and
technologists I've listened to hundreds
of hours of programs that both support
and criticize the president in Ukraine
in Russia in the United States I've read
countless books about this war and the
long Arc of history that led up to it if
forc to recommend too at this moment I
would say the rousi Ukrainian War by
sirii and the showman by Simon Schuster
which is uh a good personal behind the
scenes biography of the president
focused on 2022 but there are many many
more this is why I can comfortably say
that he is a truly singular and
remarkable human being it was an honor
and pleasure to talk with him on and off
the
mic now it is true that I plan to travel
to Moscow and to speak with President
Vladimir Putin and I hope to be back in
Kiev as well as president zinski said
this was our first of many more meetings
in all these cases I seek to do my small
part in pushing for peace and in doing
all this I'm deeply grateful for the
trust people have given me on all
sides for the people attacking me
sometimes lying about me for the critics
in the stands chanting the latest
slogans of the massan machine like the
sheep and Animal Farm I love you too and
I assure you that drawing lines between
Good and Evil on a world map is much
easier than seeing that line between
good and evil in every human being
including you and
me this is what I try to do I'm simply a
human being who seeks to find and
surface the humanity in others and as
I've said no amount of money Fame power
access can buy my opinion or my
Integrity now finally please allow me to
briefly overview some history to give
background for several topics that
President zalinski references in this
conversation I recommend my conversation
with sirohi and many others about the
history of the region but here let me
start with
1991 when Ukraine declared its
independence and the Soviet Union
collapsed from this point on Russia
Ukraine relations were defined in large
part by whether Ukraine aligned more
with Russia or with the West meaning
Europe United States NATO and so on in
2004 with the orange Revolution a
pro-western candidate Victor Yenko
became president in 2010 it went the
other way a pro-russia candidate Victor
yanukovich became president the internal
tensions grew and in 2013 yidan protest
broke out over yanukovich's decision to
suspend talks with the European Union in
favor of closer ties with Russia this
head forward a chain of important events
in 2014 on the politics front yanukovich
was ousted and fled to Russia leading to
the election of a pro-western president
also in 2014 on the war front Russia
annexed Crimea and war broke out in the
dbass region of eastern Ukraine which
eventually killed over 14,000 people and
continued all the way to 20 22 when on
February 24th
2022 Russian forces initiated a
fullscale invasion of
Ukraine this is when the world started
to really pay
attention now some history of peace
talks Vladimir zalinski won the
presidency in 2019 and he discusses in
this conversation the ceasefire
agreements he made with Vladimir Putin
in 2019 which was one of many attempts
at peace from from the two Minsk
agreements in 2014 and 15 to a series of
ceasefire agreements in 2018 19 and 20
all of which failed in part or in
whole all this shows just how difficult
ceasefire and peace negotiations are but
they are not impossible it is always
worth trying over and over again to find
the path to peace I believe that
presidents zalinski Putin and Trump
Trump should meet soon after January
20th this year and give everything they
got to negotiate a ceasefire and
security guarantees that pave the way
for long- lasting peace we discussed
several ideas for this in this
conversation as I said this was one of
my main goals here to push for peace
this trip to K and this conversation was
a truly special moment for me in my life
it is one I will never forget for get so
to reflect I say a few more words and
answer some questions at the very end if
you like to listen but here let me say
thank you to everyone for your support
over the years it means the
world this is Alex Freedman podcast and
now dear friends here's the president of
Ukraine Vladimir
zansky if we can explain why the
Ukrainian language is very important our
conversation will be most effective and
impactful if we speak in Russian I speak
Russian perfectly of course and I
understand everything you are talking
about however I can't respond in Russian
the entire interview it's because this
is how it is today I am not making
anything up you can see it all for
yourself you can feel and hear it today
there were 73 missile attacks against us
and people were killed there were over
100 drones today and this is a daily
occurrence the people who attack us they
speak Russian they attack people who
were only recently told that this was
actually in defense of Russians speaking
people and this is why I
respect neither the leader or director
of today's Russia nor the people I just
that's it and I I don't think that you
can just uh can just pretend that
nothing's happening and give Putin a
pass once again for for saying that we
are one people that we speak one
language Etc they speak the language of
weapons that is a fact and we are
peaceful people peaceful people
who want to protect themselves and
defend their freedom and their human
choice you know at the beginning of the
war I addressed Russians in
Russian Zero Effect
they're
mute they they do not listen they did
not listen some are afraid some have
other issues they have different reasons
it's like when a person is drowning
drowning and people walk by because they
can't hear them and someone walks on by
crying afraid to save them it doesn't
change anything for the one drowning
they need someone to help them this is
why I honestly despise these people as
they are deaf they they began the
occupation in the supposed defense of
the Russian language and that's why with
all due respect I would like to give an
interview in Ukrainian this is very this
is very important to
me if there are some points that you
want me to explain in Russian I can
certainly do that I can certainly
occasionally speak Russian but in
general in general no I'm not sure that
that you will understand me completely
despite your Ukrainian Roots you are a
citizen of the United States
right
yes that's why I'm surprised that
you don't understand well it was a long
time ago I understand that it was a long
time ago
moreover uh a lot has changed a lot has
changed if if I may please allow me to
say this in Russian yes many things have
changed but I have hope I hope that
today many Russians will hear this that
Vladimir Putin will hear this that the
American president Donald Trump and the
American people will hear this that
everyone will hear this and yes
Ukrainian language is important
symbolically but what is also important
is that we understand each other well
for Donald Trump is it important for
Donald Trump whether I speak Russian or
not yes because unfortunately and it
hurts to admit but I cannot speak or
understand Ukrainian yet so your your
wit dynamism and your Humanity will not
come through as well and as quickly
remember I need to wait for 2 to 3
seconds to hear it you have a great
sense of humor great stories with an
interpreter translating I simply won't
see this but I understand that it's
painful another reason is that I hoped
we could show that even even though it
is sometimes said that Russian is banned
in Ukraine this is not true I'm speaking
Russian now right we have people who
speak Russian this is not true really
it's not it's really not true we
disrespect Russian now because of
Russians that's all when they were
saving Russian speakers they killed
Russian speakers many people who
actually uh many of whom are in the East
right in the East they live lived in the
East they destroyed their houses
destroyed their lives it's not a
rhetorical thing it's not all talk and
blah blah blah I don't have time for
blah blah blah yes so it's a very very
very important and sensitive moment the
message is that we are not one nation we
are not you know the same country we're
different
countries yes different countries and I
think what is most important
is what we're talking about
not how we're speaking about it this is
what I think you're a smart guy so you
have a lot of experience in dialogue of
this kind that's why I think you will
you will understand
me yeah I anyway I think it is far
better for Donald Trump to hear my
English not my Russian your English is
much better than my Ukrainian you're
getting better and better that's true
I'm a very honest guy that that's why I
will be very honest with you your
Ukrainian is not very good but we will
but we will work on it yes I have many
flaws that's one of them sometimes I can
speak English sometimes as I understand
we can be very flexible right very
flexible Spanish Swahili yeah you see
yeah Javier used to understand this so
by the way Javier understood me without
any words the language of love maybe of
respect I respect him I had a very good
conversation with him really brilliant
may I sometimes speak Russian and
sometimes English yes you can use any
language you like and I think that's a
very good rule for this first meeting
between us as you said maybe we will
meet in the future for the second time
second and third and fourth yeah this is
this is good you can ask questions in
the language you'd like and I will
answer in the language I can well you
said you wanted to meet by the Sea at
some point so for our next meeting let's
meet by the sea with pleasure next time
it would be much better to meet by our
Ukrainian black or our azov sea you know
I've been to a lot of I have traveled to
many cities in Ukraine but I have never
been to Odessa and everyone tells me
that and I don't know why you have to
can you explain to me why everyone loves
Odessa so
much what's
there you know what's in Odessa that's
how they say it what's there in Odessa
we've got it all all okay Odessa I love
Odessa because of its particular
temperament people have their own their
own accent and it's so there are many
nationalities you know there are a lot
of lot of stories authentic Odessa
Cuisine by the way you know the cuisine
is very different from others the dishes
are not like any other dishes and
everything is very tasty also there are
beautiful people and today you
know you understand people very well
especially after after the attacks on
Odessa you understand what the people
are like just how odessites are very
Ukrainian and that's that's very cool I
love Odessa I go there several times a
year I go there several times a year now
because well now because of
strengthening of air defense systems of
this grain Corridor Etc I go there more
often they have the sun there they have
the
sea it's Ukraine and it's very cool
there well when you come and visit me in
Texas as a guest for the third time with
pleasure let's do this how about you my
friend Joe Rogan and I will go get some
Texas barbecue together who will pay
that's a good question Putin Putin
for everything he has to pay well yes
we'll invite him to no no no no okay
without him okay I get it
understood uh but if the Rome statute uh
will be accepted by your government
before this moment okay by the way I
don't know if you know this but Joe has
a great comedy club in Austin Joe Rogan
Joe Rogan yes and I think that as a
person who respects comedy and stand up
comedy it would be interesting for you
to have a look at it no no he is I know
him and I saw uh a lot of different
videos he's uh he's a very talented
person so it would be a pleasure if you
invite me and I'm able to do it I'm a I
am a little bit busy yeah but uh if I'll
be if I'll be in the United States I I
hope that I will have a conversation and
a meeting with President Trump and uh of
course during my visit if I'll have the
time it would be a pleasure if you'll
invite me with pleasure you know what I
will pay good yeah I you know I had to
think about it but you know you are the
president yes with you with pleasure
when the war is over please come than
you're less busy thanks so much um if
you can go go back many years World War
II tell me the story of your grandfather
who fought in World War
II my grandfather he he
graduated from the
military Military
Academy and from the very beginning of
the war he went to fight he was in the
Infantry and he fought through the
entire War he had many
wounds as they used to say back then his
chest is covered in metals and it's true
he had more than
30 uh yes more than 30 he was the kind
of man he was
such he was such a serious man I loved
him very much um and we had a very close
relationship um he didn't like to tell
details about the war he
never he never boasted although I asked
him as a boy would how many fascists did
you kill he never talked about it he
believed that the war was a great a
great
tragedy uh a tragedy for for
everyone and
uh Ukraine was occupied and it was a
tragedy for Ukraine a tragedy for Europe
and a tragedy for the Jewish
people his own
Brothers his entire family were
executed they were
tortured by fascists who had occupied
Ukraine and their
Village his father was the head of
the
village and he was killed they were
shot it was a
mass a mass grave right yes it was a
communal burial some of them were killed
outright and others were they were
buried alive His Four Brothers they all
went to war as soon as the War Began
they were all there um he was the only
one who had a military education and
they
all died in the war he was the only one
who came back he had
nobody he came back and he
found found
my grandmother his future wife and she
was she managed what was it called then
I don't know they don't have them
anymore it was a child care facility and
orphanage so to speak a place where
orphans lived
children who who don't have parents
children of war and she managed this
child care facility with difficult
children as they used to call them
difficult children who went through the
war who saw their parents killed and
this is how they met because um these
difficult children they well sometimes
behave differently they could steal
something do something bad there were um
many many children in the
orphanage yes that's how she met my
grandfather
and I loved him very
much and I think that my
grandfather frankly would never have
believed that this war is possible he
would never have believed it because he
worked in the police after the war he
was a CO col he worked in a criminal
investigation all his life so he fought
with um Bandits all his life after the
second world
war but
also I believe he fought for justice all
his life and we all lived in one
apartment and even after his death I
lived with both of my grandmothers and
my parents two grandmothers who both
lost their husbands both of them died
well it was an ordinary family an
ordinary family that lived like everyone
lived back then in the Soviet Union and
even after the Soviets in the '90s we
lived in one apartment all
together what else is there to say but I
think the most important thing was
values
respect they gave me an education my
parents gave me an education no one left
me money or apartments so I didn't
inherit anything material but I believe
that our real inheritance is here in our
minds and in our hearts I believe
that one second so if uh I'm sorry if
you it's fine tell a joke I will laugh
about one two or 3 seconds later there's
a delay so ordinary family but not an
ordinary time World War II World War II
speaking of mass Graves I was at Bob and
Yar yesterday a large part of my family
died there in moments like this such a
place serves as a stark reminder of the
profound historical gravity of the
second World War
I remember I remember this song from my
youth on June 22nd at 4:00 ke was bombed
and the War
Began I always wondered how it would
feel to live in a moment when when
everything changed the path of humanity
completely shifts in a single moment
just like that uh what do you
think what do you think about that
moment in
1941 now after the 2022 invasion how do
you perceive the second world war after
you have witnessed all of
it well
um well firstly the war actually started
earlier it started here in Ukraine Kev
was bombed as you
quoted but the war had already begun
before that and I think I perceived it
um as a start of the fullscale invasion
well I
think it's hard it's hard to understand
why nobody wants to listen look at and
analyze
history War the rise of Fascism and
Nazism the emergence of Hitler Gobles
and their entire team at the time this
wasn't just about one party or even one
country it was um essentially a wave a
wave of
hatred a
wave of One race um One race Above the
Rest they were in fact constructing and
ultimately implemented a theory around
this idea later seizing Europe um they
created a theory of of one nation One
race one world their world of course
this idea is absolutely senseless but it
has become radicalized over the years
and even gained
support a vision of one world and in
principle the so-called Russian World
the ideology Putin promotes and imposes
it wasn't originally like that he was a
different person back then or maybe he
was always like this but his rhetoric
was different at the beginning remember
he talked about the EU and even about
Russia's future being tied to Nato there
were even talks of joining the European
Union NATO he spoke about shared values
with the West that's how it all sounded
back then and we must also look at
Hitler who was seriously
um before the radical idea of taking
over the whole
world he actually made
certain steps and everyone believed he
was helping the economy and to be fair
he did take some steps in that direction
but he was a terrifying
person none of those actions justify him
nor do they excuse his actions and
that's why we cannot look at the second
world war as if it started in 1939 it
didn't begin in 1941 either we need to
draw conclusions when did it start with
the weaknesses of the
world the division of European States
the molotov ribbon trop pack all of this
happened before 1941 people who were
more informed those who dug deeper
whether they were politicians or not
whether they were from different walks
of life
B including business which was different
back then were speaking about all of
this Hitler won't
stop there'll be a World War Hitler will
destroy Nations Nations and that's what
happened someone looked the other way
what I told you about Europe was sinking
then I gave you an example of it but the
whole world looked the other way and
didn't pay attention and said no we can
negotiate with him I'm telling you he is
okay we can negotiate with him he's just
more right leaning or it does not matter
what they said he's just he's just Pro
very Pro
nationalist this is all nonsense and
this is not the first time and Hitler
isn't the first such case in history
we're dealing with a person who is
allowed to
stick to
this desire to
destroy he was consumed by it and
enjoying it and what happened to Hitler
now what about
Putin this invasion was also at 4 in the
morning around 4 in the morning there
were missile strikes on Ukraine this is
the same I believe that intentions are
also the same but more on that later by
the way you tell me if this is too long
you you you can stop me never long
enough it's beautiful okay so it
happened here around 4 in the morning
I before this I must honestly
say everyone said something predicted
something Etc but I asked only for one
thing primarily from the United States
if you are sure if you have the evidence
if you talk to him and he tells you that
there'll be an invasion if all this
scares you I only asked for two things
send us weapons or better
yet strengthen us with preventive
measures so there would be no war it
wasn't the weapons that I was asking for
I asked for sanctions intimidate him
please don't say that if he comes if he
crosses borders if he kills we're
imposing sanctions well this is complete
sorry but really oh I
understand this oh wonderful yes I
understood one word
yeah yeah so they did not help I believe
that no and this is a fact we didn't
receive help if we assume that words are
help well then yes we received a lot of
it because there were plenty of words
even more than plenty
yes at 4 in the morning there were
strikes
morally is it possible to prepare for
war no it doesn't happen like you read
in books see in movies and so on what
happens to you I was just looking at my
wife and children my children were
asleep but my wife was awake there were
strikes missile strikes we heard
them to you as a living
person how can this be you just can't
fully believe
this you just
don't understand why now given
everything that happened in World War II
when uh when millions of people
died none of it mattered still at 4: at
4: in the morning around 4 3:40 345
remember around this time yes there were
missile
strikes and later by the
way a
few days after after the first days of
the
war I spoke with lucenko on the
phone and he
apologized and he said that it was not
me missiles were launched from my
territory and Putin was the one
launching
them these are his words I have
witnesses and I apolog olog he said but
believe me that's what he told me Valia
this is not me I'm not in charge he told
me I'm not in charge these are just
missiles this is Putin I told him don't
do that this was done without me that's
it he just on the phone I remember this
conversation I told him that I
believed I told him you are a murderer
too I'm just
saying and he told me
you must understand you can't fight the
Russians I told him that we never fought
them I said it's War the missiles came
from your land from Belarus how did you
allow this then he replied all right
retaliate then I still remember him
telling me hit the refinery you know how
much I care about it Moser oil refinery
is that it can't recall Moser oil
refinery I told him what are you on
about
what
retaliation forgive me Valia yes yes yes
this this was at 5: in the morning no no
no this was during the first or maybe
the second day second or third day of
the war ah yes I see well after that I
went back home I was home with my
children with my wife I just went to my
wife very quickly that night at 4:00 yes
and just told her get the children get
ready you'll probably need to go to my
office very soon and I left that's it at
this
moment you're you're no longer a
father what happened to me unfortunately
because I believe that this
is and not only do I believe I
understand especially now that all of
this is the most important thing because
your country is your
family it's the strength is in your
family and this is the most important
thing and I'm the president and
therefore I had to stop being a father
in my own family and my wife had to do
everything she had to do everything
regarding
children regarding safety and and I had
to deal with the state because I'm the
president and this is my duty and I by
the
way um um um taking this very seriously
I went to the the office and here we are
now you're very welcome well at that
moment on February 24th
2022 everything changed again just like
in June 1941 uh everything
changed and uh history took a turn the
history of humanity took a turn and for
you too you were the
president you were you were talking
about fighting corruption about the
country's Freedom about interesting and
innovative
forms but that morning of February 22nd
everything changed could you tell me
about that morning the details of your
actions when you had to quickly make
difficult
decisions uh what was the process for
you how did you make these decisions did
you discuss them with people you trust
to understand how to respond to this
invasion in every technical political
and Military aspect what was the process
for you how did you make the
decision according to our legislation in
principle I'm I'm I'm the supreme
commander of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
so I had to give corresponding orders
yes I have a military office and then
later there was a military headquarters
where all key people gathered this is
not only about the military it's about
energy Etc all key things but at that
moment I made the
decisions quickly and without a doubt
and and I cannot say that I am just that
kind of person I'm just a living person
who believed that if help is needed
right now to to help to help evacuate
people help with children several cities
were blocked I was only thinking about
how to deliver food there within within
a day we did a lot of things although we
understood that that they in fact
occupied part of
our
state and
it we distributed weapons to
people that's how it
was trucks came and simply distributed
weapons to people so that they could
defend the capital to Ordinary People
just on the street to ordinary people
who who understood that if the Russians
enter the
city then we would have the same thing
that's happening in other cities per the
information we
received uh thanks to digitalization by
the way we had very good digitalization
before this and we preserved a lot and
even when they were
surrounding certain cities a lot of
things still worked the banking system
the internet we had television and
thanks to this I made several decisions
to ensure that people are united and
have all the
information Russia is very
good at spreading large scale
disinformation fortunately I I have a
two decades of experience two decades of
experience
managing a Production Studio
TV
channels and large media resources I
understood that we needed uh to build an
Information Network very quickly thanks
to this I began to address the people
constantly this happened several times
three to five times a day in fact I
became
that an information source for people
who were in cities that were cut off
from other information
and it was very important for me to keep
uh all things digital to keep the
internet to stay in touch with everyone
with all the people initially that's the
contact we had and then uh we also built
a media platform so um where we had all
the news
agencies agencies of
Ukraine and this network was called
marathon and it was also very important
for the people to trust us and people
had to receive information why there
were waves there were waves of Russian
on the first day who said he ran
away I had to go out into the street I
left the office and went outside I had
to do this because I was showing that
this was no green screen you know to
show that it was the street not some
digital some digital manipulation I mean
I did these things then I touched
various objects now people might think
that these are small things but I was
actually showing that I was in a real
place all of this had an impact I was
absolutely sure my
actions and these contacts several
contacts and then I spoke to the
Russians I addressed Russians I really
did and then only after that I gathered
it was the first day when I invited uh
all of the journalists here wasn't it
that was on the first day I think well
not here here to the Press Center in
this
building I talked to journalists I asked
them not to leave because we needed
weapons at that moment they were handing
out rifles to people and for me
journalists and media platforms were
essential voices there were there were
various journalists from different
countries here and they were essentially
stuck and I asked them for contacts
those who had access to to Russians
Bellar Russians kazaks who understood
everything the same information and I I
spoke to them and I spoke to them and
spoke in Russian I told them you must
stop Putin this is terrible this is
horror This Is War you must stop him and
if you stand up now if you speak out and
if you go out into the streets this was
very important I spoke to them in
Russian to show them that there was no
problem and that all of these pretexts
were were made
up this is why it's so painful to talk
about the Russian language too because
look if a person does not want to listen
they will not listen No Matter What
language we speak I disagree with you
here I think and hope that many people
in Russia will hear us today
they blocked YouTube recently are you
aware of this in their country I know
and I simply guarantee that this
conversation will travel fast on the
internet everyone will hear you they
will hear you including the president of
Russia will hear you this is why I have
hope he is actually deaf even if he
speaks to you he is deaf by his very
nature do you understand the difference
you know for instance when you
talk to
musk you're talking
to an
innovator a scientist about Rockets you
talk about how to save on costs and how
they
land and on the other hand Putin doesn't
launch rockets to save money but to kill
people do you think you can talk to
Putin about
technology your guys were were
interviewing him and he told them about
about tribal
history do you understand imagine a
Russian man in his country listening to
him you know what musk is about
technology Mars artificial intelligence
and this guy Putin is standing there
bareass pontificating about
tribes you've got to understand you
think that when you do interviews like
Mr Tucker who did an interview there
that that you're about to make them
friends how could
you what does this have to do with
friends he's
different he is he is simply different
but it's still necessary a mammoth
stands before
you by the way I must say that when you
said bear asked it was not translated
could The Interpreter please translate
this is so that you can understand now
he explained everything to me I
understand that's I fully understand
that's great but we still need to talk
one should always speak with someone who
listens and you must speak when you know
that this will benefit you bring peace
and calm to the world not the other way
around I love president Trump's message
when he speaks I I think that we share a
position on peace through strength that
is very important it means that if you
are
strong you can
speak and we need to be strong and
Ukraine has to be strong strong
enough otherwise what for so
he you you know who like like Voldemort
who
must who must not be named yes he's he's
like
Voldemort
he thrives subsists and lives on being
subjectivized instead of isolation he is
offered to step out into the light he's
Darkness personified and you offer him
as it were to be subjectivized why
there's only one
reason
fear and you say we need to talk listen
we need to be in a strong position and
not talk but end the war yes yes it is
possible through dialogue we're not
opposed to
it you just need to be in a strong
position to make the other person want
it do you think he wants to end the
war that's what you suggested I think
this is naive I'm sorry with all due
respect it's naive to think he wants to
finish the
war it's uh tell you what the
circumstances sorry for interrupting the
the there's something we need I think
that President Trump not only has will
he has all these possibilities and it's
not just talk I really count on him and
I think that our people really count on
him so he has enough
power to pressure him to pressure Putin
not into wanting to stop it no he will
not want to to pressure him to actually
stop it that is the difference don't
rely on his will Putin's will to stop
you won't see it that's what I think
sorry no sorry I interrupted you first
but what I would want I do have what
some uh what some might call a naive
dream of you sitting down with Putin and
Trump and negotiating a deal about uh a
ceasefire and together finding a path to
long-term peace and I think this
requires strength requires
negotiations there are a lot of carrots
and sticks here that can be used to make
a real deal and Trump is very keen on
making a deal and ready to negotiate can
I ask you a question
yeah I just really want you and I to be
on the same
page uh it's very important to be in the
same information space extremely
important uh let's talk a bit about the
ceasefire let me describe the situation
to
you in December 2019 in Normandy in
Paris at the Elisa Palace macron Merkel
Putin and I
agreed on the ceasefire the US wasn't
there and this by the way was a weak
point of the meeting if you'd like we
can later discuss why they
weren't there it's a security guarantee
thing in general it's Germany's position
Etc we agreed on an exchange of hostages
and all for all exchange we made a deal
to exchange everyone for everyone I
think you know that and there was also a
meeting that lasted many hours a meeting
where we made we made a deal with him
everyone was tired it was just the two
of us in the end and I proposed a
ceasefire
by the way no one in Ukraine believed
few believed in the ceasefire and he
wanted troop withdrawal I calculated
that if there were a withdrawal of
troops from the line of contact the way
Russians proposed it would take 20 years
I proved it to him just in terms of time
square kilometers namely the length of
the line of contact or delimination line
and we agreed on what I told him that um
it will not work out but but I I had
many points because I was deeply
involved in the issue I was involved
very deeply it's my thing in general if
I start doing something I can't stand
there like that guy I spoke about with
my ass out you
know I must be
dressed I must be prepared I must be
prepared better better than anyone in
front of me you do sports right mhm I
practiced for many years and we know
what fights are like what boxing is what
tie boxing is this is what I did and I
loved it very much when you step into
the ring you understand everything
pretty much
mhm and so I stepped into it and I was I
was definitely well
prepared but he wasn't no he was not
deeply involved in the process what
border where is it how long will it take
to disengage troops and why wasn't he
involved you want to know because he
wasn't going to do any of this this is
what confused me if you are not deeply
involved in the issue well then you it's
um it's as if you don't really need the
result that's what I
think so what happened we
agreed that there will
be gas
continuation gas transit in 2019 we
agreed with him this was the security
for Europe Merkel asked me for it and
this was extremely important for Germany
we agreed with
him secondly we agreed that for him it
was just money so secondly we agreed on
an exchange for me this was the most
important thing for them gas was for me
was the people and this is a fact
because I wanted to have a humanitarian
Advantage so that there would be further
meetings that would lead to sustained
peace and
third
ceasefire ceasefire you spoke
about what
happened the gas contract was signed
because he needed it and by the way away
he knew everything about it as for
exchange we took the first step and
exchanged the
people regarding the
ceasefire
well they started killing us in about a
month
so I called
him and I told
him we agreed on a ceasefire didn't we
well it wasn't a piece of toilet paper
was it this is serious business or so it
seemed it really was serious Merkel
macron you and I we all agreed on this
together a ceasefire is important isn't
it not for New Year's cuz everyone was
celebrating New Year's and now they're
offering us a Christmas ceasefire it's
all the same a ceasefire for 2 three
days just to get some praise but this
isn't a performance this isn't some kind
of theater no this this is about
people's lives and that's what happened
after that I called him a few more times
I think I only had two three calls with
him in total I asked him for a ceasefire
he told me it couldn't be we will we
will figure it out now people from
people from the occupied territory
Russians and separatists they were all
there
together they continued to shoot and
kill our people yes the front line lines
were
quiet but they killed
people they were killing people and I
kept calling him I called again and
again but there was nothing until after
a few months the Russians stopped
answering the phone we did not have any
contact
since I wanted another meeting like we
had in Normandy I wanted the next
meeting I wanted to find a solution but
the Russians refused
we tried to make it happen through
various European countries and not only
European but the Russians refused they
passed along some kind of made
excuses they didn't want it meanwhile
they were sending their
snipers we had evidence living proof
even video evidence because some of them
were captured back then those were the
snipers in training they were training
them they were training them and later
those snipers
at in Syria and Africa these snipers
were training in our country in the East
ukrainians were living
targets they were shooting from the
other side killing people women people
children they were shooting it was a
hunt by the way it was in the Russian
speaking region in the East where
according to him everyone is speaking
Russian that's where they were shooting
where the situation currently is the
most tense they killed people we sent
this information sent pictures we sent
them to the UN sent them everywhere we
worked very hard very persistently I met
with everyone but who thought of Ukraine
back then they didn't notice it much
they didn't pay much attention to to
Crimea being illegally occupied either
and to be honest the United States of
America too everyone was somewhat silent
about this issue that's how it was it
was
it was like that before a fullscale war
I want to ask you a question about the
ceasefire for example in marup in marup
today uh there are American and
Ukrainian
journalists and everyone will tell you
who had contact who has contact now with
marul who fled from there in the last
minutes just before the occupation or
who was able to leave to escape after
the occupation chernoff who one and
Oscar was among them and the journalists
that left Mario Paul they are here by
the way we had a
conversation uh they will tell you that
20,000 30,000 civilians were tortured
and buried there we do not know the
number of
victims people who didn't want to work
with them who refused to cooperate with
them people who went on strikes to
protest people who did not want to work
with the Russians who occupied marup and
this is one example just with this city
and I have a question for you what about
the millions of children and I will ask
you in Russian so that you hear this
without delay what about the millions of
children over there what if we just
arranged a ceasefire without
understanding what would happen next
without understanding what will happen
to Ukraine's security guarantee
what about the millions of children in
the occupied territories what should I
tell them what am I to tell them what is
it I should tell them what
whatever hey all of you over there see
and those tens of thousands of people
buried there they were is that what we
want are we ready to forgive them for
this we must at least take the first
step if this is a ceasefire we must know
that there is a security guarantee for
the part of Ukraine under our control we
need it so that he will not come
back this is very important and what do
we say to the people who live in those
territories these are millions of people
did you know that since 2014 in donet in
the Crimea this is happening in mapole
as well as in berans now they are making
all these kids of drafting age
go and fight and if they don't go they
will be killed this is do you understand
what's
happening that is why a
ceasefire everything I
said what I wish for and I believe in
president Trump's power to
use all of this information to come up
with a way to make Ukraine
strong and be
strong why am I saying
that I will give you an
example president
Trump will be in the same situation as I
was in
2019 precisely the same situation I want
to end the war we want a lasting peace
for Ukraine we must do this the
ceasefire exchange people and then
diplom automatically return all
territories and we will do this through
diplomacy what will happen next with
President Trump if the ceasefire happens
without security guarantees at least for
the territory we control what does he
get
if he manages to make a ceasefire
deal and 3 months
later Putin launches a new wave of
attacks What Will trump look
like what will Ukraine look
like what will everyone look
like Putin will just do it and why would
Putin do it because today he's afraid of
trump but once Trump manages for
example to do a ceasefire deal without
serious security guarantees for Ukraine
he will give a pass to Putin not that he
wants to no he does not want that I
believe in what he says but he will give
Putin an opportunity because in Putin's
head he wants me to fight with Trump
Putin's plan is to end the occupation of
our territory this is in his sick
head and I'm absolutely sure of this
that is why I told you don't wait for
Putin to want to stop the
war pressure him so that he is for
forced to stop the war that's
important it's important to say that
what you said about the children is a
tragedy War as hell but let me say again
we must find a path to peace there is
one what is it there is one before
ceasefire strong Ukraine strong
Ukraine's position yes we can speak
about it with
Trump for me we can we can speak about
security guarantees but a quick step a
quick step is NATO a partial membership
NATO yes I
understand I understand I understand
Trump's feelings about NATO I heard him
he's thinking through all of it of
course but anyway yes NATO is a strong
security guarantee for all the people
for us part of security guarantees the
second part is the arms Aid package
which we will not use if a ceasefire
Works nobody will use the weapons for
what but it has to stay but with all due
respect to the United States and to the
administration not like before I I don't
want the same situation like we had with
Biden I ask for sanctions now please and
weapons now and then we will see if they
start it again of course we'll be happy
if you'll give us more and you will
stand with us shoulder Tosh shoulder of
course that is right but but it's
different when you have
weapons Putin wouldn't have been able to
occupy so much territory it was very
difficult for us to push him out but we
didn't have weapons before and that is
the same situation it can be the same
situation I'm just sharing this with you
like I said at the very beginning I want
to be very honest with you and with your
audience yes it's true if we do not have
security guarantees Putin will come
again to make it clear let's
describe the idea that you are speaking
about I would like to offer you other
ideas too but right now your idea is
that NATO accepts Ukraine minus the five
regions of luhansk donet zapia kerson
and Crimea just so you understand the
situation the invitation to Nato is
legislatively issued to Ukraine so to us
all those territories are still UK
Ukraine but NATO so far can only act in
the part that is under Ukrainian control
this can be negotiated I am sure about
that yes this would not be a great
success for us but if we see a
diplomatic way to end the war this is
one of the ways so it is sorry that is a
start secondly weapons arms Aid package
I not ready to discuss this publicly
r