Kind: captions
Language: en
I write the script in December. January,
Josh Arnett, Marley Shelton come down,
fly Franken. We're shooting for 10 hours
on my green screen. We shoot that
opening sequence. Incredible opening
sequence. And the visual look, we've
never seen that. I want to just take
this and make it move. I just want the
comic to move. Any other studio would
just go make it look like any gritty
crime movie and they would they would
miss the point that it's the visual is
half of it. I want it to look just like
this because it would be the boldest
movie anyone's seen because that's how
it reads when I read the book. It's like
if this was moving, it would be the most
phenomenal movie. Just by being around
him and working with him, you get by
osmosis, you learn stuff and it just ups
your game because they're just swing way
beyond you. Jim Cameron was like that.
So like when I first met him, I was
trying to impress the hell out of him,
you know, cuz I was such a big fan. I
was about to go do this and I went,
"Hey, I just took a 3-day steady cam
course cuz I can't afford a steadyic cam
operator, so I'm going to operate
steadyic cam myself on this bar." Now,
if he was just my peer, he'd say, "Oh, I
I did the same thing, and I'm going to
do the same thing." That that would be
like hanging out with somebody of your
ilk. But you don't you want somebody
who's above that. Do you know what he
said? He goes, "I bought a steady cam,
but not to operate it. I'm going to take
it apart and design a better
one." Us mere mortals trying to learn
how to operate the camera. He's
designing all new systems. That's the
guy you want to hang out with, not
someone who's doing what you're doing.
We put so much of the world around them.
Like when you see the city, we put like
a blue screen way in the back to just
make the city keep going. But we built
the sets there, the town, we built the
real set so everything was very tangible
and real. And that way she had to fit
into that world and be as real as that.
Because if it was all done in CG, well
then now you can fudge everything. But
if you put her in a real environment,
that's a real challenge. And just like
with our movies, you watch it all fall
apart. You watch this thing blow up. You
watch this thing not work. everything
just falls apart in front of your face.
Then that's when you roll up your
sleeves and creatively figure out a way
around it. And by the end, you have a
result that's better than what you
sought out. Sift through the ashes of
your failure, and you'll find the key to
your next success is in there. But if
you're not looking for it, you don't
find it.
The following is a conversation with
Robert Rodriguez, a legendary filmmaker
and creator of Sens City, El Mariachi,
Desperado, Spy Kids, Machete, From
Dustel Dawn, Alita, Battle Angel, The
Faculty, and many more. Robert inspired
a generation of independent filmmakers
with his first film, El Mariachi, that
he famously made for just
$7,000. on that film. In many sins, he
was not only the director, he was also
the writer, producer, cinematographer,
editor, visual effects supervisor, sound
designer, composer. Basically, the full
stack of filmm. He has shown incredible
versatility across genres including
action, horror, family films, and sci-fi
with some epic collaborations with
Quinton Tarantino, James Cameron, and
many other legendary actors and
filmmakers. He has often operated at the
technological cutting edge, pioneering
using HD film making, digital backloths,
and 3D tech. And always through all of
that, he's been a champion of
independent film making, running his own
studio here in Austin, Texas, which in
many ways is very far away from
Hollywood. He's building a new thing now
called Brass Knuckle Films, where he's
opening up the film making process so
that fans can be a part of it as he
creates his next four action films. I'll
probably go hang out at his film studio
a bunch as this is all coming to life.
His work has inspired a very large
number of people, including me, to be
more creative in whatever pursuit you
take on in life and have fun doing it.
This is the Lex Freedman podcast. To
support it, please check out our
sponsors in the description. And now,
dear friends, here's Robert
Rodriguez. Has there been a a time when
there was like one take and you only
have one take to get it right? Oh, all
the time where you're just like or just
you know how long it'll take to reset
and you're just But then you know what
you you you got to just work with what
you got. You know, you got to look work
with your result. You get nervous or no?
In that moment, oh yeah, you're you're
nervous going like just I hope it goes
off cuz then to fix it I'll have to go
do a bunch of other steps which we don't
have time for. But a lot of times, you
know, I've just learned that if
something happens, it's just meant to be
that way. And uh and I got used to doing
things in one take and and just living
with it. It didn't bother me. In one
movie, it was even a low budget movie,
they had um rigged a car to implode cuz
I was going to throw a guy at it. So, we
needed a car to implode and then we're
going to throw them and marry it
together, right? And um the stunt and
the the car guy goes, "Yeah, we're going
to have three cars rigged." Three cars?
just why you have to prove well in case
one doesn't work and then we have a
second one after third. we don't have
all night to go shoot take after take
we're doing just just get one car and if
it doesn't work we'll figure it out
because you don't have time to do it
again sometimes it's such a long setup
so I go no I'm I'm good with just going
what in a grind house movie they only
had one take so that'll make it more
authentic when it all goes to shit when
it fails you just what's the next
thought so I'll tell you two things
happened on Destl Done first was okay
you know how those explosions when
somebody walks away in slow motion from
an explosion that's become kind
You know that started with Desperado.
Desperado is the first. If you look at
all the montages, Desp. That's right.
That is the meme because it was an
accident was just supposed to be it was
just two grenades, not a nuclear bomb.
He throws them over the side. I just
wanted like some body parts or you know
something to fly up some shrapnel. I
literally said shrapnel and my effects
guy was so ragged running so ragged. We
get to there and I go, "Do you have any
body parts and stuff we can throw up or
or something you can shoot up, Pat? I
didn't realize it's so high to get past
that second floor." He's like, "No, I
don't. I can give you a fireball. I can
give you a nice, you know, um, fireball
with propane, but it burns away really
quick. Like, how fast? Like that, but
it'll be big and orange. Okay, we we'll
shoot it in slow motion so it lasts a
little longer because it just goes poof.
So, I told the actors, I don't know how
big this fireball is going to be, but
just walk really fast and just look real
determined and then just keep walking.
Don't stop and turn around cuz you might
get your eyebrows singed. So, they take
off and boom, it goes and in slow motion
it looks great, right? Mhm. I remember
showing it to Jim Cameron before it came
out and his hand went up like you never
seen that before, you know. 6 months
later, Dust Told Dawn came out. So I I I
liked how much it looked so much that in
Dust Told Dawn I did it again. So those
movies came out within 6 months of each
other. That's why it turned into a thing
cuz people saw it. And so I thought, how
about for the opening of George Clooney
and Quinton walking out of the uh gas
station that we have the whole place
just blowing up and they just keep
talking like it's not happening, you
know? like take it another step further
so I'm not just doing the same thing.
Okay, that one it's like, okay, you're
going to walk out and it's all in one
take. So, we're only going to do one
take. We're going to blow the thing up.
We're going to start with just, you
know, some smaller explosions and then
when they're further away and it's
safer, then we'll do the big fireballs.
Mhm. So, we're going and you're nervous
cuz like if one of them trips up a line
and you know the pressure's on them.
It's not just you that's nervous. You're
nervous for them. and they're the ones
who got to walk out, do that whole
speech, get in the car, and drive away.
What if the car doesn't start? What? You
know, there's a lot of things that could
happen. Well, guess what happens? The
thing you would not
expect, they go in, they come out, they
start talking, shoot it. It's perfect.
Great. We can move on. And the camera
guy goes, I don't know what happened,
but just like you had a little snafu
here. He goes, we have we have an
autofocus on the steady cam. You know,
we have a focus thing. Oh, it just went
like this. I I felt it go whack all the
way out of focus and whack for a second
back. Like it just reset itself. I don't
know why it did that, you know, cuz it's
radio controlled and we can't tell cuz
we're shooting film, you know. So, we're
like, "Oh shit, let's watch the
dailies." Sure enough. Let's see if we
can get maybe I can scratch the film
right there. No, it goes completely out
of focus and back in focus within a
second. Now, we got to reshoot it. So,
we have to wait till we're back in that
location. We rigged it for two more
takes just in case. So that thing that
was supposed to be the one take is three
takes. The other thing that happened was
the front of the Dust Till Dawn
bar, that same guy that did those
explosions, he packed a bunch of
explosives behind the actors, when the
actors come running out of the of the
bar at the end of the movie and there's
an explosion through the door cuz all
the vampires are blowing up. He didn't
just He put like 10 times the amount of
stuff. It blew out. You see it in the
movie. You see this huge fireball going
up. And if you watch closely, you see it
already start to catch the whole place
on fire. The whole front of that which
just foam catching on fire and I cut
just before you see that it's on fire.
And we that was the first shot at that
bar because we weren't going to start
shooting the other stuff till night. So
the first shot is that and the set's
ruined. burned to a
crisp. The neon lights blew up. So, we
couldn't even shoot. Chich goes, "Well,
I guess I'm not doing my speech
tonight." And but right away, this is
what this is what happens. My first ad,
Doug Arnikowski comes over to me and I
go over to him. The guys came out with
the fire hoses. The fire hoses weren't
even adding any water. Like, the thing
was just scorching. The whole production
design team was in tears cuz they had
just spent weeks building this thing and
it was up in smoke and
charred. I said, "Let's just keep
shooting. Let's just keep shooting
because it looks really kind of cool
like this." Yeah, they're going to have
to come repair it and we'll have to come
back. But it's all black and char.
That's why that whole scene with George
Clooney and Cheich and the the
building's black. We didn't go over
there and touch that up. That's real
flame that burned and it ended up
looking great. So then the next week
when we came back to shoot that other
shot that didn't work, we came back and
they had repaired it and we shot all the
night stuff which is the majority of the
stuff in front of it. So sometimes you
got to roll with it and then and look
look at the blessing you get because of
there's a mistake. You probably actually
got a better take by doing it later with
them and then you had this incredible
look for the end of the movie that
looked apocalyptic. If it had looked
just clean, you would have actually seen
that it was kind of a foam set. This
made it look better. So, I kind of let
the universe push you where you're
supposed to go. Just roll with it. You
got to roll with it because you don't
know what the grand plan is. You have
your plan. Just know it's probably all
going to fall apart. It's just like the
movies. You come up with your plan of
what you want to accomplish. That's like
your script. Then you go scout your
location and figure out what your
project's going to be, you know, and you
go try to make it as bulletproof as
possible. Then you go to do your
project. And just like with our movies,
you watch it all fall apart. You watch
this thing blow up. You watch this thing
not work. everything just falls apart in
front of your face. Then that's when you
roll up your sleeves and creatively
figure out a way around it. You turn
chicken shit into chicken salad and by
the end you have a result that's better
than what you sought out. But that's the
process and that's life and that's wash,
rinse, repeat the rest of your life.
That's what everything's going to be
like. It's just like a movie cuz when
you think about it, you're writing a
story for a film and you're also writing
the story of your life at the same time.
Like how how are you going to react to
things? Well, how do you make your
character react to things? You make him
kind of superhuman. Why don't you just
make yourself that way? You're writing
your own story. And you start really
seeing the more you get into
storytelling that life imitates art and
art imitates life, but the process is
also the same. So, you write the story,
the script, and then you have it collide
with the chaos of reality. And in that
moment, we said you see the chicken shit
like you have to be able to keep your
eyes open. You have to notice. You have
to do that. Wait a minute. Okay. Stuff
changed.
Where's the not to be cliche about it,
but where's the silver lining of this?
Where's the path to actually make
something good out of this? And that's a
skill, right? I call it, and it's one of
my favorite stories. I was doing one of
these talks and I said, "Come talk about
creativity." I go, I understand cuz a
lot of people read my book, Rebels Had a
Crew and told me, "Oh, it made me be a
filmmaker." But a lot of people said it
helped me start my own business because
they just see how you can go be
entrepreneurial like that and go where
no one else is going. And I'm giving all
this talk about this kind of positive
stuff. And this one woman goes, "You're
real positive, but what do I tell myself
when I just wasted a year and a half of
my life doing something that didn't
work?" And I was like, "That's a real
negative way to ask that. Can you just
rephrase the question a little more
positively before I even attempt to
answer it?" Because already her point of
view is is exactly what you're saying.
She's not looking at all. She's just
concentrating on what what didn't follow
her plan and not seeing the gift of
everything else that's there. So she
goes very reluctantly. It was so
perfect. I wish we had filmed it. She
goes, "I learned a good lesson the hard
way." And I said, "That still sucks."
And I say, "When you follow your
instinct, like if you follow your own
instinct to go start a business or go
make this movie or whatever, it wasn't
someone saying, "Go over there and
you'll make a million dollars." You
know, it was your instinct and you fail.
Sometimes the only way across the river
is to slip on the first two rocks. You
fail. You have to really sift through.
It's like the silver lining, but I call
it sift through the ashes of your
failure and you'll find the key to your
next success is in there. But if you're
not looking for it, you don't find it.
I'm going to tell you one. And I tell
him the four room story. I said, I made
a movie called Four
Rooms. I It's didn't make any money,
right? When Quinton asked me, hey, do
you want to make a movie with me and two
two other filmmakers? It's an anthology.
It's on New Year's Eve. It's in a hotel.
You have to use the Bill Hop. We're not
going to know what each other's making.
And we make it. We put it together. My
hand went up right away. Just
instinctually, shit, that sounds Yeah,
I'll do that. I'll go make that with
you. Now, should I ask the audience? I
like to throw it to the audience and
her. Should I have not raised my hand
that quick? Shouldn't I have done a
little studying first or should I just
go blind instinct or should you do
instinct with some studying? Okay. Well,
I could have gone and studied and I
would have found that anthologies never
work. Like even when it's Copala,
Scorsesei, Woody Allen, they bomb
because people can't quite rip the hand.
What is it? Twilight Zone. I don't want
to go see that. But that's not I still
said, "Yeah, I I I think I should just
still go by Instinct." So, my instinct
was to raise my hand. We go make that
movie cuz I love short
films. I made like bedhead and short
films. And I thought, "Oh, here's a way.
If this works, I can make short films in
anthologies and I can have the best of
both world." And by the way, anthologies
is when there's multiple more than
multiple one story. Yeah. One movie.
Just so if you did the research, you
would know that very few people ever got
that to work. Yeah. the audience can't
quite rep the render and then it feels
like the movie starting three times, you
know? So, I make that movie, it
bombs. Now, I could feel real bad about
that, but if you really think about it,
you go, "Well, why did I sign up for it?
Did I raise my hand because I thought it
was going to go be this big financial
success?" No, I did it to work with my
friends, to do something creative, to
try something, but that's still not good
enough. I need to really sift through
the ashes. And if I look through the
ashes of that failure, I find two keys
to my biggest successes in there. While
I was on the set, they said it has to be
New Year's. So, I thought, I'm just
going to do like bed. I'm going to have
two little kids that are running around
in this room and we have to use the bell
hop as a babysitter. Well, it's New
Year's. Let's dress everybody in tuxedos
cuz it's New Year's. They're all going
to go out, but the parents leave without
him. When I saw Antonio and his wife, I
thought, "Wow, they look like a really
cool international spy couple. What if
they were spies and these two little
kids who one of them keeps falling
asleep on the set. He's so young. They
can barely tie their shoes. They don't
know parents are spies. They have to go
save them. Okay, there's five of those
movies now, right? The other one was, I
really love making short films. I really
want this anthology thing to work. What
if it's three stories, like a three
director, not four? Same director, not
four different directors. I'm going to
try it again. Why on earth would I try
it again? Well, because I had already
done one and figured out how I could do
it better, and that's sincity. Those are
by far two of my biggest successes that
came directly from that failure. So, I
always say follow your instinct. If it
doesn't work, just go. Sometimes the
only way across the river is to slip on
the first two rocks. So, what is where's
the key in that in the ashes of the
failure? Because if I had an instinct,
that means I was on the right track. I
didn't get the result I want. That's
because the result might be something
way bigger that I don't have the vision
for and the universe is pushing me that
way. By the way, a lot of people that
look back to Four Rooms see a lot of
creative genius in there. So, you say it
flopped. It flopped financially.
Financially, but you know, there's so
many ways to
measure. But, like I said, like I like I
would say, well, it was successful
because, you know, even Rodri said,
"Hey, you furnished my favorite room."
You know, I was like, "Hey, that's I
could take that." But now that I think
there's something else still there. I
keep sifting and it's like, "Oh, yeah.
Two big successes came from that. It's a
amazing lesson to have because it makes
you feel better about failure. Think of
like The Thing by John Carpenter. You
put that movie out the same weekend as
ET. That thing bombed. Critics were
calling it pornography, you know,
because of all the all the weird special
effects and audiences didn't go either.
And he thought he made a great movie.
So, you know, it makes you question your
instincts. Well, 10 years later, turns
out, oh, it's a classic. So, sometimes
it takes the audience a while. So if you
have some kind of failure on something,
you don't let it knock you down. Just go
maybe in 10 years they'll think it's
great. I'm just going to commit to
making a body of work. A body of work.
Some will succeed. Some will
overperform. Some will underperform.
It's not your job. You just want to be a
creative person. Just create. I I told
you just create stop thinking about
movie per movie and worrying so much
about each one or project to project if
you're a business person. just commit to
making a body of work like an artist
would do and you don't you don't know
what the masterpieces are going to be or
which you know someone's going to come
and say oh that that one that bombed I
there is some really creative stuff in
there and it's not for you to decide you
just go and do it and sometimes I think
it takes some time to process the
failure to make sense of it like uh at
least for me don't rush making sense of
what didn't work what lessons do I take
from it how do I sift through the ashes
as you said. Yeah. Like it takes time.
You have to sleep on it a bunch.
Sometimes it's right there and then
sometimes you come back, revisit it, you
know, later cuz you might not have had
some information you have now that makes
you look at it a lot differently. Like
when I did I just uh did the audio book
for Rebel Without a Crew, which I thank
you for that by the way. I hadn't read
it since I wrote it. So I didn't
remember a lot of the details. And you
actually It's voiced by you. I voiced
it. So I was reading it real time. Yeah.
I highly recommend people because you
comment, you add additional commas to
it. It's great. Most of the time I'm
laughing because I can't believe how
crazy that story is. I forgot a lot of
details and when you're younger, you
know, when you're 21, 22, 6 months feels
like 6 years. I didn't realize how short
that window was until I reread it. And
how impossible most that is. But you see
some places where a setup falls in my
lap and then pays off immediately in a
big way, like magic over and over again.
It's clear I don't know what I'm doing.
It's clear the universe is just pushing
you places. So, you can't fight it
because I remember I was really
disappointed and it says in the in the
diary, I'm really bummed that I go home
that Christmas not having sold it to the
Spanish home video market, which was my
goal. I walked home penniless and I was
like, merry Christmas. Feel like a
freaking failure. Good thing I didn't
sell it then. You know, with time, you
look back and you go, "Wow, I got an
agent the next month." He wasn't even
going to help me sell it. He said, "Oh,
if you can get 20,000 for it, take it."
I chased those people down for those
contracts, Spanish market for months and
they never answered me back and then
Colombian ended up buying it for like 10
times as much and we made a re we
released it and and did a sequel and did
another sequel. If you look back in
time, good thing I didn't get my way. My
way had had this for a vision and it
needed to do that which you would never
know you know you don't know that going
through. So just if you don't have the
answer right away or even in 10 years,
go maybe it's coming in 20 years. Don't
let anything slow you down. Just keep
plowing forward, committing to making
your thing happen. Don't don't get shook
up by something that you might not have
an answer for. Yeah. Every aspect of
your journey is super inspiring. We'll
talk about it. Let's go to the
beginning. There's a few technical
things that are fascinating about your
beginning. So, you started making films
when you were very young. Yeah. With an
old Super 8 camera and you were editing
on a VCR. You see, I've met a lot of
filmmakers who, you know, they start a
certain way, but then they finish
another way. They get to be big
filmmakers and all that. I still do it
that way. Like, I still I like doing
things that way. I have a new company
called Brass Knuckle Films where the
audience can actually participate by
investing this being investors in these
movies that are done the same way.
They're action films like we did with
Mariachi, but 10 to 30 million. It
doesn't take a lot of money to start a
billion dollar franchise. You know, like
John Wick only cost 20 million the first
one. Second one was 40. Third one was
80. Fourth one was 100 because the
audience kept growing and growing. By
the way, you say, you know, 20 million
like it's not a lot of money. We should
for an action film. That's right. But
also, we should say that El Mariachi,
the fil the the film on which to book
Rebel Without a Crew is $7,000 movie.
So, let's put it all in context. But,
you know, you know, you're going to hire
bigger actors. You can get a big actor
like Tiana Reeves for a $20 million
movie. You know, I asked Jim, I said,
Jim Cameron, I said, you know, like
Terminator cost 5 million. He goes, I
wish we had that much. He had less than
5 million for that. So, you can start a
billion dollar franchise using these
methods and uh and with the audience
investing, they get to make money on
them. And this what I'm going to say now
about how I started. You see that DNA of
how I give out, you know, I want people
to know how I did things with Rebel
Without a Crew or with these methods
that I started with. You see, that's how
we kept going. Hollywood spends way too
much. And when you can make stuff for
less, your profit margin is much better.
So, when I first started, I didn't have
any money. So, I still play like I don't
have money. So, I had Super Eight. My
dad had a Super Eight camera, but I
couldn't afford it. I shot two rolls
that you had to get. You had to buy the
film, shoot two minutes. I shot two
rolls of that. It's another same amount
of money that it cost to buy it,
whatever that was, 12 bucks or whatever,
to develop it. You get it. There's no
sound. Most of the shit's out of focus,
you know. But then my dad, who sold
cookware, had a VCR, one of the first
VCRs, home VCRs for the market that he
would play his sales tapes to his
salesman. And it came with a camera
attached like this cable you got coming
out. Imagine if that had to go into your
VCR for you to even see what it's
shooting. And this is old camera, manual
focus, manual iris and 12T cable. And I
would start making movies with that
instead. Now I have for $8 I have a
2hour erasable tape of sound and
picture. So I got into digital basically
really early. I was doing which was
really frowned upon back then and and
continued to be all the way to when I
was using it for real in the early 2000s
before everyone realized oh that's the
future. Yeah. That's fascinating cuz you
were a rebel in that way too using data.
Yeah. Well cuz of the means and the
democratizing of that. The elite didn't
like that you could just go make a movie
like that. But I started practicing and
it's much easier to practice when it
doesn't cost any money. Like if you want
to be a rock star, right? If you want to
learn how to play guitar really well,
you're not going to just jump on stage
and suddenly be able to play. You have
to practice till your fingers bleed.
Well, the same with movies. You got to
keep telling stories and cut them
together. And you just can't afford that
on film. Nobody can with a two-minute
roll costing as much as a 2hour tape.
So, I was moving all these doing all
these movies. First, I would cut in
camera. And that VCR, that old VCR had a
really great pause button that they
stopped making that when you hit pause,
it stopped right there. And it stopped
with a clean cut. It didn't have all
this color bars like the later ones had.
So I that was my and it had an audio dub
feature where you could add another
second soundtrack to it. So if I have
people talking I could hit audio dub and
add sound effects so I could have two
tracks on the same one. So I that was my
film making kit for a while until I
needed to start doing real editing. And
my dad bought a second VCR for his
business cuz I stole his other one. And
I found that if I hooked them together,
I could play on one and use that pause
button on the second. And this was the
limitation. This is what taught me how
to edit in my head, is that if I shot a
bunch of footage, I needed to shoot very
little footage so I could find it.
Sometimes you shoot out of order. So
when I cut it, I have to cut in linear
order because if you push pause, it's a
nice clean cut, but only it only holds
for 5 minutes. You have 5 minutes before
the machine shuts off. So, you got to
find your next shot within 5 minutes and
do that. Otherwise, if you have to start
the machine over, it would add all these
color bars and it would be all screwed
up. So, I'd have to sit there and not
move for like all day while I cut
knowing what the next shot was. And once
I had it cut, I would then add some
sound effects to it. Remember, because I
have the audio dub function. But now if
I want to add music, I take that tape,
which has two tracks now, into the first
deck and put it into the VCR again, one
generation of loss, but I have a little
cassette tape player with the music and
I do a Ysplitter so I can add the music
and Yeah. Right. Just like that. That's
like being resourceful with what you
have. And I made award-winning short
films that way on video. There were some
festivals that would allow video. Not
many, but they would always win. And
there were always funny is uh I stumbled
upon Spy Kids that way. Like I wanted to
make these action movies in my backyard.
But when you're a teenager, you don't
know anybody who can come be your action
star. And if you just bring your high
school buddies, well, they just look
like high school kids. So I use my
little brothers and sisters cuz I'm one
of 10, third oldest. They're just
sitting around watching cartoons anyway.
And I made them the action stars just to
like learn. And I found those things
would be a winning formula. they'd win
every festival I'd send them to. So, Bed
Head was my first time using a film
camera. It was a windup film camera I
got in film school. I went to film
school for one semester and realized I
already knew more than the film students
cuz they they taught you a whole other
outdated way of doing it. So, I thought
I'm just going to use that film c camera
to make a a
low-budget movie, a definitive film
version that I can send to all film
festivals of these action kids, which is
a precursor to Spy Kids. Bedhead's a
precursor to Spy Kids. And we should say
that Bedhead was an award-winning short
film that was probably a big sort of
leap for you that probably opened the
door to you to then make Elmer your your
your brain especially because those
video festivals I I would win like a
trip to New York and a director's chair
with a video shorts that I would put in
festivals. But I knew the film festival
if I could get into film festivals I
could send that all over the world. So,
I made that little short film, sent it,
and it was winning all the festivals.
And I thought, "Wow, I made that with a
windup camera, film camera, filming just
one take each
shot, just no slates cuz I'm the
editor." And that cost 800
bucks, and it was 8 minutes. I bet I can
make an 80minute movie for $8,000 if I'd
use the same method. So that movie I did
6 months later I was making Mariachi cuz
it opened up my mind to that I could try
it in a feature. Can we actually pause
on that because uh I think uh Bedhead
has a really great really unique story
shot in a really unique way. I think
what I'm trying to say is like it's very
important to write write the right
script. Write the right story. So let me
tell you the trick to that and Mariachi
is the same way. And this really helped
people. Like even Kevin Smith from Clerk
said, "Wow, Robert said when Mariachi
was success, I talked about how I did
it." I said, "I I I looked at everything
I had. What do I have?" We have a
pitbull. We have a turtle. We've got a
bus that Carlos's cousin owns. His
cousin is a brother has a brother-in-law
has a bar and he owns a ranch. So, the
bad guy lives at the ranch. The fight
scene's going to be in the bar. He's
gonna hit a bus at one point. He's gonna
the girl's gonna have a dog and a turtle
is going to cross the road. It gives you
all this production value. So you write
backwards. So for Bed Head, I even did
that with a camera. So I'd been shooting
video all this time and one thing I
wished I could do on video I never could
was slow motion or stop motion even. So
when I got that crappy World War II
camera they gave us in film school. I
mean I was so pissed like this is the
camera I've been trying to get my hands
on. I could have bought this for 50
bucks at a pawn shop. Old Bell & How
wind up. You couldn't even see through
the lens. you were seeing through an
approximation of the lens. But you could
shoot slow motion. I could do reverse
photography. If I filmed upside down, I
could do because if I do a fast push
into her, I'll never get the focus in
right. So, I started with it in focus,
went back, pulled backwards on a chair,
and then reversed it, flipped it, and
now looks like it stops on a dime in
focus. The number of times I've seen you
shoot backwards is incredible. like to
achieve a certain feeling, a certain
experience, a certain uh certain effect.
Sometimes shooting in reverse plus the
sound effect
layer, you can create this reality
that's surreal that then results in the
story that you wanted. Like you have you
have to be functioning in some kind of
different space-time continuum.
You start putting it together, right? So
I've got this different camera. Well,
what now? Now I go like I don't want to
shoot the same kind of movie if I got a
camera now that can do that. I can do
stop motion. So that's why there's an
animated title sequence at the beginning
cuz I go, "Wow, I I'm a cartoonist. If I
set the camera up here, I can slow it
down enough. It's not it's not a frame
by frame, but if I get it down like two
frames a second, I can just tap it and
it'll maybe get one frame off." So I did
300 drawings by hand for that opening
title sequence. Holy shit. That was that
was you doing it by hand? Yeah. So you
watch that and this is a throwaway title
sequence, but I really wanted this thing
to win awards. Okay, hold on a second.
How long did that take to draw that?
That's a lot. That's a lot of work.
Remember I drew it. I drew it over Well,
I was a daily cartoonist by then, so I
was pretty fast. But still, it's that's
why it's only pencled. It's not inked,
but it looks great. I mean, it's the
camera's going around and all kinds of
crazy stuff, but it's just all faked by
paper. I took me all night to shoot it
because I remember I walked into the
film school the next
day, you know, like all sleepy. And I
told one of the fellow students, you
know, wow, I was up all night doing this
animated title sequence and he went, why
are you putting so much work in this?
They're not going to they're not going
to grade you any differently. And I was
like, grades? You get an A walking in
here. I'm trying to get out of this
town. I'm not doing this for fucking
grades. I got I want people to see what
I can do now, and I want to see what I
can do now with this. So a lot of the
the story came from the limitations or
actually the freedoms of that camera. I
couldn't have done that story on video.
So when I saw, wow, okay, I can do
reverse photography, I can do stop
motion, she has to have special powers
because if she has special powers, then
I can utilize I can really milk this
camera for all it can get. There's one
of my shots I love the most is where
she's standing there and the and the
chair she makes a chair come all the way
up to her and it goes all the way up to
her face. Now, if I did it normally,
where where would I even put the strings
for that? Right. To pull the chair.
Yeah. So, I start here with a camera
upside down. I have the strings in the
back cuz you're not going to be looking
at the back. And as it goes back, you
pull it back and then when you reverse
it, it goes and it looks so good. you
can't spot the if you look close you see
the strings are in the back but your
eyes not looking so I did stuff like
that and then just her like getting the
hose and then I just do stop motion for
the hose turning on you know the faucet
that's why I gave her special powers so
that and it made the story better so
sometimes the limitations you have with
equipment or location you can use it to
make you know take chicken shit turn
into chicken salad take this camera that
everyone was like what's this and I go I
can do so much with this but I tell you
Hey, I look at that camera. I can't
believe I ever made a movie with that
thing. It's so ridiculously primitive.
I'm just like, how did I even think I
could get anything done with this and it
even exposed? And Mariachi the same way.
You have to think about it. I shot
Mariachi on film and with a bar 16 mm
camera. I didn't know how to use it. I
called up a place in Dallas that rented
that kind of equipment and I said, I
have an airy 16S
here, two motor looking things. One has
a 24 and one has a a bunch of numbers.
Oh, that's a variable speed motor. That
means you can do different speed. I can
shoot slow motion with this. Yeah. Oh,
wow. Do you have a torque motor? I don't
know. What is that? Is there something
on the side of the magazine like there's
a Yeah. Now you can just look up on
YouTube and it shows you how to do. I
was doing it by phone that way. And then
I went and shot the movie right then.
Yeah. And I didn't know if any of it was
exposing or if the film camera was
working until I finished the whole
movie. So imagine you have to go down to
Mexico, shoot for 2 weeks, come back,
send it off to a lab. You want to talk
about being nervous? Yeah.
Just hoping something exposed. And when
I saw it come back and the tape, you
know, they transferred it to a tape so I
could edit it deck to deck again, I was
so relieved. Some things didn't come
out, but I can cut around that. It's
like, oh yeah, cuz I'm doing everything.
Like right here, you're doing
everything. Imagine if you forgot to
stop down and it's open all the way and
one shot is blown out. You know, I'd
have stuff like that because I'm moving
fast and I'm doing it all myself. Wait a
minute. You
shot the whole thing without knowing if
some of the footage is damaged. Wrong.
Without any of it. That's why I only did
one take. So, my idea was this. How
gangster is that? Well, it it was a test
film. Right. Right. I thought it was I
thought it was going to be a test film.
Yeah. It's the only movie in history
ever made where the filmmaker did not
think anyone would see it and expect it
and even set it up that way. I mean, why
would I make an action movie for the
Spanish market called basically The
Guitar Player? Promises no action. No
one's going to watch it. But I thought
if someone actually picks it up and has
the balls to watch this thing, they're
going to be surprised I put a lot of
action in. It was just to learn from. I
just needed to make it for as little as
possible. See how much I could sell it
for. If I could double my money, great.
I can make another one and just get more
practice. It was just I was so intrigued
by this idea cuz you've heard advice
about
screenwriting. I heard a revised back
then that I thought was ridiculous. It
said, "It's going to take you a long
time to be a good screenwriter. So,
write three scripts and throw them away.
The fourth script will be a good one." I
was like, "It's so hard to write a
script. Who's going to write three full
scripts knowing they throw them away?
Wouldn't it be better if you write three
scripts and then shoot each one and be
the cameraman, be the sound guy, be
everything? because that way you're
learning not just writing, you're
learning how to make a movie. So that
was my idea. I'm going to make three of
these, hide it on Spanish video, but
make money back. That's like my own film
school paying me paying me to learn. So
the first one I thought, let me just
shoot it one take each because my friend
Carlos lives in Mexico. If we shoot two
takes, most of the cost is to film. I've
just doubled my budget. So let me just
shoot one take. Some of it's going to
not come out, but I'm not going to know
what. I'm not going to shoot a safety
one. That doubles my Let me Let me see.
Some things might come out. I expected
like 70% of it to maybe be okay, but 30%
I might have to come reshoot, which is
fine. I just drive back there and then I
just re-shoot just those shots, right?
So, I just went, let's shoot. We stop,
we come back, then I send it off to
develop because we're shooting two weeks
consecutively to get film shipped back
and forth from Mexico to see if it came
out. You just couldn't do it. I just had
to, you know, double down on it. Do it
one take everything. I remember one time
I was telling the actor, "Man, I told
you to run through that shot and you and
you go, oh, let me do it again." No, one
take, dude. Just think about next time.
Do what I say. I didn't think anyone was
going to see it. So, you're And because
you don't think anyone's going to see
it, you end up doing something
remarkable, which is, "Well, I'm just
going to make something for myself." Cuz
if I was making a movie that was going
to go to Sundance, I wouldn't have made
that movie. I would have thought, "Okay,
I got to get serious." But because I
made this movie that was just
entertaining myself like Bedhead, it
entertained audiences. So that naivity
is really important when you're starting
out or at any point in your life. Be
naive about what things going to and
just do something for yourself. That
taught me a very valuable lesson because
I didn't want anybody to see it. I just
thought one take, one take. When I got
back home, a bunch of stuff didn't come
out, but I'm like, I'm not going back to
Mexico. I'll figure out a way to edit
around it and make the movie shorter.
And that's just going to be the movie.
And then that's the one that went one
Sundance. That was your first feature
film. That's the one you made for
$7,000. You mentioned your friend Carlos
as the star of the movie. Everything one
take. And you know, I highly recommend
people go back and watch that movie.
It's it's just an incredible movie. It's
fun and it's it's an action film. Moves
really fast. The story is really
interesting. So the script is really
interesting. All the actors, you could
tell they all kind of stepped up and
played their own. weren't actors. They
were just friends of ours, which is why
and because um and this was this the
magic of not having a crew. They didn't
feel like they were making a movie. It's
like this, you know, we're we're just
here. Yeah. Me with my one camera. In
fact, the gal uh Carlos said, "This one
girl, I forgot she's in town. Maybe she
would work." Cuz we tried to get a soap
star and she backed out. So, we got this
gal over. She goes, "But I don't know
how to act." And I said, "Here, let's
watch. I want to show you some on
Mexican TV. A tel nolla was on and you
see someone, you know, all over
overacting." I said, "That's acting." I
don't want you to do that. I want you to
just talk like you're talking. Wait,
wait, wait. That the love interest, the
woman in that, that's what you're
talking about. That's what you're
talking about. She's amazing. She's
amazing. But cuz I got a video of her. I
said, "I want you to just do this one
line. Pretend like you're just talking
to your boyfriend." Yeah. And I showed
her I showed her the video. That was
cool cuz I couldn't show her the film
cuz we'd have to develop it. But I
showed her a video test of herself doing
it and she saw herself doing it. She
suddenly had the confidence. We went
through her closet. This red dress you
can wear that you everyone just brought
their own clothes. She really had like a
sexuality a tension like a romantic
tension that was real. That was it was
it was a it was in part a great love
story that I mean as ridiculous as it is
to say. Yeah. And in part like a
dramatic love story. Yeah. idea was
that, you know, I thought a guitar
player, you know, originally what I
wanted to do was like Road Warrior. I
said, I want a guy with a guitar case
full of weapons going from town to town
like Road Warrior. But I don't have
enough money for the first one to do
that. That'll be the second movie I do.
How about we do a Genesis story? How he
became that guy? So, let's do Mad Max,
basically, how he becomes that guy. So,
maybe he is a guitar player. So, that
you start writing it out. I was going to
show you my writing method. I write on
on index cards and I I carry one of
these a little packet of index cards. I
keep one always in my bag and I smile
when I run across it because I go I've
made a million dollars with one of these
before. You know it's like this is the
key to your next success cards cuz you
know when you go see a therapist you're
not going to them for the answers.
You're going to them for the questions.
You've got the answers inside. What you
don't have are the questions. A lot of
times we ask ourselves very unempowering
questions like why am I such a loser?
You know I can think of 10 answers right
now. But if you but if you go what three
things can I do today that will not just
change my life but everyone around me.
Take steps to that. Take out your cards
and start writing them down. Mhm. You
won't come up with three. You'll come up
with 15. I'm like wow. Cuz you're asking
yourself and you'll see them. So when I
was doing that movie, I thought, okay,
he's a guitar player for real and he
gets mixed up with a guy with a case. So
how about he walks into a bar. So I
write down there. He walks into a bar
bar trying to get
work. Bartender looks at him. We don't
hire Mario. Just get the hell out of
here. So he
leaves after that whole scene explaining
who he is and what his story is. Then
the shooter comes in with a guitar case
full of weapons. He's also dressed in
black and he shoots the place up. Now,
if that was a short film, that's how
you'd start a short film. But this is a
feature movie, so shit. I got to figure
out how to tell a feature. I'm going to
need a few more cards before that. So,
I'm going to
need Well, who's this bad guy? How about
he's in jail? I'd read a story, this
crazy story about a guy who was in jail
in Mexico, and he was running his drug
business from the jail as protection. He
could walk out anytime, but he it was to
keep have the cops be his enforcers
basically. So, introduce that guy. He's
in jail making phone
calls and someone puts a hit on him. So,
we have action right away. There's a hit
on him. He kills those guys cuz it's his
operation. He's not in jail. All the
cops are working for him. And he tells
that guy on the phone, the main bad guy,
I'm going to come to town. I'm going to
kill all your guys and I'm going to come
kill you. So then he gets in his truck
and you see them bring him a guitar case
full of weapons.
He passes the
mariachi on the way to town and now it's
his story. The baton gets turned to
mariachi. Mariachi's doing a voice over.
It's easy to shoot. We can do the voice
later. We don't have to sing
sound. There was even a scene when he
walks into town where we saw these
coconuts, a guy cutting coconuts. And
we, oh, let's go film over there. So, we
filmed the guy giving him a coconut with
a straw in it and he walks out and went,
"Shit, man. You forgot to pay the guy.
Well, let's shoot that." No, there's one
take. I'll just put in the voice over
that they give away free coconuts in
this town. And for years, people in
other countries would go, "They really
give away free coconuts?" No, it's
because we forgot to show him pain. You
know, little happy accidents. So now,
look, you're already building a movie.
So it's like, now he goes in the bar.
Now he's mixed up. And the bad guy says,
"Find the guy with a guitar case full of
weapons." Then he goes and meets the
girl. So you just start your movie vis
visually. You can start seeing your
movie. And I've used this for business
things. I've used this for ideas, for
manifesting stuff. It's brilliant. Are
you doing this alone usually or are you
brain? It's coming and it comes so fast.
It's like free association. Maybe I have
the ending. Oh, I know. I want his
handshot. He's going to get his hand
shot because he's a musician and those
ballads are always really tragic. So,
the girl has to die. The girl has to die
cuz if it's a if it's going to be a
tragic song for his song book, each
movie should be like a
tragedy. That's going to be over here.
You know, now you got the ending and
then you your brain starts filling in
the rest because you're asking yourself
these prompt questions that you already
have answers for from a past life, from
a vision you had that you don't even
know are there. This prompts it. It's
kind of a puzzle that you're figuring
out. What happens if you get stuck? Like
this doesn't make sense. Like some
aspect of the structure doesn't make
sense.
You leave all there. You won't Yeah. You
just start You just start riding in the
ones you do know. Yeah. Like, okay, I
know I know at some point she's going to
betray him or he's going to think she
does. She betrays him. Okay, that's in
the middle somewhere. Uh, the other ones
will come. Yeah, those are all like
crossroads to the story, doesn't that
like how do you know she has to die? Can
I Can you change your mind about that? I
can. Yeah, but for now, I felt like if I
really want the story's telling me now
what it is. I I didn't know I was going
to make a Genesis story. I wanted to do
the Road Warrior guy. But the Road
Warrior, he lost his family. So really
to propel him to become a guy who has a
guitar case full of weapons, h