Kind: captions
Language: en
Mel Robbins welcome back to the show
I feel like I'm getting my own I'm so
excited to see you very excited let's
jump right into the deep end what are
three things that very successful people
run every day that helps them be
successful they get their ass out of bed
uh uh they you and I both struggled with
that oh my God I still struggle with it
so do I it's I don't think people
believe me it is a thing every day of my
life every day of my life it's such a
trip well I I understand why for me
anyway I don't know the reason why it's
hard for you but there are there are
levels of reasons why it is so hard to
get out of bed for me and why you have
to get your ass out of bed
um and I'll explain why it's important
in a second but first I want to explain
why it's actually difficult for me so
number one from a physiological
standpoint
it was very helpful for me to learn that
your cortisol levels are their highest
when you first wake up in the morning
and so cortisol being the stress hormone
it's also something that can then flood
your body with a sense of like worry or
heaviness or overwhelm and so knowing
that that was just a fact in terms of
what's Happening your body was helpful
second for me personally part of my
childhood trauma was having a incident
where you know somebody did something to
me in the middle of the night and that
encoded an experience in my body that is
triggered by waking up because at the
age of I guess I must have been like
nine I had an experience where I woke up
one morning and an older kid had climbed
into my bed and done something and the
second I woke up Tom
I was in full alarm state
fight or flight kicked in I
disassociated and I knew something bad
had happened and then I had a second
response which is
did I I did something wrong right right
and so
you know you talk a lot on the show
about habits and how habits have three
parts the trigger the pattern the reward
waking up in the morning is a trigger
Tom for my body to remember this
experience of feeling something's wrong
so that's the second reason and the
third reason is is because I have
[ __ ] amazing sheets and my bed is
super comfortable and my husband uh used
to be next to me but he would he now
gets up at like 5 45 he just rolls right
out of bed and I love to just stay in
that bed Dom under those sheets it's so
cozy it's so snuggly it's absolutely
amazing and so that's why it's hard for
me I don't freaking feel like getting up
and then on top of it and you and I both
know this that an object that is resting
will stay resting unless there is a
force that acts upon it to get it to
move and so it is always hard for me and
how I've resolved this is by basically
realizing that there are a few things
that I will never feel like doing I will
never feel like unloading the dishwasher
I will never feel like folding uh clean
clothes I will never feel like cleaning
that damn cat box or picking up the dog
poop in the yard yeah and I don't ever
feel like getting out of bed
and I still have to do it
it's interesting so I think for me my
cortisol levels are too low oh so
whatever it is that gets people out of
bed from a physiological level I don't
have that so I've always felt to me it
feels like the the neurochemistry of
sleep is slow to be flushed out of my
system maybe it's just that the cortisol
doesn't pump enough and so getting out
of bed just seems like this Herculean
task because even if there's something
I'm excited to do I find myself still
wanting to lay in bed
and then the whole warm and cozy thing
yeah that goes a long way like even now
I will if I'm sleeping alone like Lisa's
traveling right now so I'm sleeping
alone so I always wake up before Lisa so
I can't turn the AC off I need it to be
cold when I sleep now how cold do you
keep your bedroom 68 degrees so I keep
mine between 66 and 68 and that's also
part of the problem the bed is warm yep
and it's like climbing into an ice pack
to throw their shoes off yes so I give
myself 10 minutes to get out of bed 10
minutes so yeah yeah I that for me going
from four or five hours to 10 minutes
was like oh my god well that is amazing
yeah for me
I try not to fall back asleep is the
honest answer so I I when I wake up even
though I've woken up naturally because I
don't use an alarm you don't use an
alarm I'm like oh like it it's I wake up
rough like Lisa in the beginning of our
relationship it was really almost
contentious because I was so grumpy in
the mornings and I'm like you don't
understand like whatever the the
chemistry is of sleep I have a hard time
shucking it off and I remember I heard a
joke one time I'm going to totally
bastardize this but the guy was like uh
to all you morning people what the [ __ ]
are you talking about he's like I don't
even want to talk like what are you
people going on about you're so happy
you're still smiling and I was like yes
that's exactly how I feel so everything
just feels eh when I wake up so anyway I
give myself 10 minutes to get out of bed
and so when you're in bed are you
thinking about something are you looking
at the ceiling are you doing so this
would I think surprise everybody I sleep
completely bundled up under the covers
like like with the pillow overhead yeah
not the pillow but the blankets oh see I
put pillows over here
right here that's like a safety thing
yeah I couldn't have that on my face so
my body that would feel nice when on my
face
uh so I'm under the covers and now this
isn't true historically but for the last
probably two years I sleep with a book
playing in the headphones a book while
you're sleeping while I sleep the entire
night it is incredible what and I don't
this isn't one that I necessarily
recommend but if people struggle to stay
asleep so my I fall asleep easily I have
a hard time staying asleep so I will
wake up three times a night every single
night the third one being the final time
I wake up yep and I have to switch my
headphones out so they don't die
and I have three sets of headphones so
headphone one I fall asleep and that's
in-ear headphone two in-ear headphone
three over the ear you sleep with
headphones so are you on your back yeah
yeah yeah yeah but it is it is
unbelievably comforting I can't even
tell you is it the same book uh well no
it changes once I finish the book okay
but I'll read it in these little
increments because I have to keep
rewinding it and don't worry we will get
to the other two things that amazingly
successful people do but yes so it's the
same book okay until it's done I read it
these tiny little increments it's a
specific kind of book what kind of book
it has to be a book like have you ever
read like a biography of Lincoln
probably what I'm reading about and
they'll spend like 17 pages on what the
grass was like in his front yard
and so it's like you don't have to like
really scrutinize every sentence you can
sort of drift in and out and so what
ends up happening is I drift and then
I'm gone and I'll wake up and let's say
I started on chapter two I wake up and
it's like chapter nine so I'm like okay
I know to go back to chapter two and
then I fall asleep again and then I wake
up again I go back to usually chapter
two and then I'll sleep so when I wake
up I've got the book still playing so
then I'm like well I'm interested
I'll turn off the AC so it starts
warming up I stay under the blankets so
I start and I'll even pull another
blanket over me so I start getting too
warm yeah then I'm like cool my nine
minutes and 42 seconds are up I need to
because I I have a rule I have to be
standing up before the 10th minute hits
okay and so I'm up out of bed before the
10th minute hits but that that has
worked like a charm for me wow I this is
very complicated I've been sitting here
about the management that you have to do
around this but if you know but I think
that's the most important thing about
advice is everybody's looking for the
Silver Bullet when in fact it's got to
work for you yeah that would never work
for me I'm already starting to think
about why I sleep on this here and what
about the headphones and I'd forget to
charge them and then I'd be awake at the
ceiling and and so
that's that's fascinating
um you know one of the things that I uh
also got from what you were saying is
that because of the cortisol like flying
through my system and because I am
somebody that has had a very
disregulated nervous system meaning I
have sort of lived life
with the accelerator on on edge that
when I would wake up and I would feel
that wave of like being on edge
it it had a very weird effect of not
motivating me to get out of bed but
pinning me there
and ironically
intellectually I know and this is one of
the reasons why it's important to get up
because if you can get up you can start
moving and if you start moving you can
keep moving and as you move the
chemistry
changes and your mood shifts and within
five minutes you feel different
even if it's just like a little
incremental bit of difference even
though I know that the feeling in the
body was so heavy
that I thought I'll just lay here and
hopefully it'll go away and it just gets
worse and that's why I asked you what
you do in those 10 minutes because one
of the reasons why I say get out of bed
is because most people reach for their
phone
and most people win the battle for
success for dreams for mental health for
happiness for confidence in the first 30
seconds of being awake because they
reach for the phone and they immediately
direct their attention at other people's
lives yeah and so that's why I say I
know nobody will I when I tell people
don't look at your phone leave your
phone on the hand and everyone's like
and then they go and do it but if you
just get out of bed immediately you got
a fighting chance to be awake enough to
not do that yeah and so I think most
people if they're struggling with being
successful or happy or whatever
I guarantee you you give your attention
to social media or your phone before
you've done the second thing and so now
we're on to the second thing which is
set a freaking intention
for the day
set a mark for what's one thing that
matters to you what is the one thing
that you're going to make progress on
today and that one thing could be how
you're going to show up with your family
it could be today I'm getting into that
gym or it could be some project at work
that you're going to move the needle on
or it could be some habit that you've
learned on impact theory that today is
the day I'm going to do that thing that
I learned from Tom and you're going to
do it and it's so important for you to
direct your mind that this matters to me
because your mind is paying attention
and if you set a little Habit in place
and successful people do this you have
something that matters to you because
the other thing about successful people
is we're all [ __ ] busy and we have a
million things going on and the second
that we look at our phone or we walk
through the front door of our business
or we step into the kitchen
other people will now need you and you
will most likely spend the rest of your
day unless you have a huge staff and
you've got amazing boundaries and you've
got a light a lot of white space in your
calendar and that is not me you will
spend the rest of your day Tom reacting
to everybody else's stuff and so if you
can get into the habit of going today
the most important thing for me to make
progress on
is X you have directed to your mind that
this thing matters now if you can
actually inch It Forward before you look
at your phone before you start your work
day before you start responding to
everybody else you will start to develop
a superpower because you will see
yourself prioritizing what matters to
you and that's critical So for anybody
with a side hustle do not be working on
that thing just at night when you get
home
your dreams your business it deserves
the first 10 minutes of the morning and
if you literally just lay like one brick
on that path between where you are and
where you want to go that one 10 minute
of effort every single day and the thing
that matters most to you that changes
everything over time because I think
most people
are struggling with the fact that you
have all these things that you want to
do but your life is organized in the
exact opposite of what is important to
you that you've let everybody else
dictate how you spend your time
you've let everybody else kind of take
over your day and you haven't done the
basics of waking up
get moving think about what matters to
you and if you can
just inch It Forward you know there's
even research about this I know you've
talked about this too the the progress
principle which they've studied
extensively at Harvard Business School
that when they look at very successful
people and they ask them okay you know
what makes for a fulfilling week
and they were specific to work but I
think this applies more generally
what made for a fulfilling week for most
people that are successful is I made
progress on something that matters to me
yep I felt a sense of control
and progress over the things that I care
about
and so if you really are someone and
this used to be me for sure where you
feel like you're last on the list
you never have time to get to what's
important that everybody else's needs
come first
that years keep going by and you're not
seeing yourself make the changes that
you want to make or not make the money
you want to make or not launch that
business or start that thing
take a look at the first three or four
things you do in the morning
and see where you put your attention
because I guarantee you it is not
aligned with what you actually care
about
and so if you can grab that back you can
do the third thing and the third thing
for me is it's sort of this combination
I call it a lined action
and that is that successful people
act before they feel ready
they act like the person they want to be
instead of the person that they feel
like today
that they you know and you talk about
this too this is the philosophy that you
believe in which is uh behavioral
activation therapy act like the person
you want to become
can you give me an example of that oh
yeah so I'm launching a podcast I've
been thinking of talk about not taking
your own advice okay I most people don't
know this but I got my start
in the media business this was my first
taste of the media business in 2008 by
hosting a local call-in radio show on
Saturday mornings in Boston
Massachusetts I did not know that yes I
paid for my kids braces by reading
Invisalign ads for a dentist in Boston
that I still go to shout out to Dr
ronkin uh he did not pay me to say that
that was a long time ago
um
and I love that show Tom I freaking
loved it why did I have a radio show
I'll tell you why because for those of
you that have seen my first appearance
here with Tom this was the period in my
life where Chris's restaurant was going
off the rails we were nearly a million
dollars in debt there were liens on our
house I had lost my job I needed money
that's why I had that job it paid 25 an
hour for two hours every Saturday and I
felt like the world's worst mom because
every other parent was at Town soccer
somebody else thank you thank you thank
you to The Graces for driving our kids
they were taking our kids to soccer for
us well I could go Host this radio show
and Chris was doing whatever he could to
save the business that show is a
lifeline I would talk to real people
every single day it made me feel
connected to people it made me it gave
me a sense of purpose I loved the
intimacy of it and so Evers and that
show eventually grew
and it became syndicated and then I won
something called The Gracie award for my
coverage of trayvon's murder and that
got CNN's attention and they called me
and said hey you know we would love to
have you be a legal analyst here and so
that then got me on CNN and ever since I
left radio I have missed it
and I've been wanting to get back to it
and in the back of my mind especially
after I wrote the five second rule I
kept thinking I need to launch a podcast
I need to launch a podcast I love
podcast I I have I need to do this and
it mattered so much to me I was so like
drawn to it Tom that I think that
oftentimes when the dream is such a call
the excuses match the desire for it
right and it was never the right time it
just never I just talked myself out of
it over and over and over and over and
over again and so finally like 18 months
ago I literally woke up one morning I
had my own wake-up call and I'm like
that's it like you're going to let
another 10 years go by
unless you make a [ __ ] decision
to get started how did you get started
so you decide you're going to do it and
like take people into the weeds a bit
Yeah okay this is where I think people
go off the rails they they're sitting at
home thinking yeah I want to start a
podcast as well and I want to hear
because I know that you end up doing it
on a way more professional stage but
walk people through what who'd you call
was it a relationship that you built 20
years ago I want people to follow that
yeah so first things first
I went to my friend Google
honest to God even though I know Tom and
I know Lisa I was too embarrassed to ask
you
because you know you guys are like out
here with all these millions of subs and
you've like been doing the show for a
while and same thing with Lewis like you
know you and I have some amazing friends
and oftentimes I find that going to
people that already seem like they're at
the top of the top
that's intimidating because it it
magnifies at least for somebody who's
got a lot of insecurity like me it
magnifies
the distance between where you are
starting and where somebody is years
down the road because part of your
um genius Tom is that like it's easy to
look at what Tom's built and forget the
fact that this dude has been studying
film since he went to USC for film
school this guy is a insanely successful
entrepreneur that's bringing all of that
Sweat Equity and learning to the table
this is somebody that's dedicated
himself to like years of figuring this
out and sampling and editing and so I
personally find that when you go to
somebody that's already there it can be
a little discouraging so I went to
Google and I'm like how do you start a
podcast honest to God because I'm smart
enough to know it's different than radio
and I didn't even know what equipment
people have I didn't know anything about
okay do you go to like how do you put a
podcast up
do you put it everywhere I don't know
like is there a form that you put the
title on and the captions and then do
you send it somewhere like I know how to
upload a video to YouTube
I know how to but I don't know anything
about this market and so I went to
Google
um You're gonna laugh at me but I bought
a course about podcasting not laughing
at all
um I uh studied a bunch of videos about
the type of equipment that people bought
um I then just started stalking people
that are doing it and I started to say
my myself okay
what does somebody that already has a
podcast what do they do that I'm not
currently doing and so the first step is
obviously learn about it identify a
group of people that serve as what I
call your lights on the path and so
lights on the path are people that are
anywhere from one step ahead of you
to 10 years ahead of you and these are
all people that can guide you forward if
you study what they did and most of them
by the way we live in the most magical
period of time you have no [ __ ]
excuse
for not walking toward what you want I
realize it may be harder for some of us
with mental health issues I realize that
not everybody starts at the same uh
starting line because of bias and all
kinds of things that can happen to
people but the bottom line is through
your actions and attitude you can create
anything you [ __ ] want
and look I'm sitting here saying I've
been wanting to do a podcast for eight
years and for six years I was nothing
but excuses for why I couldn't get
started and then finally I'm like [ __ ]
it I gotta start
and so you start by Google the topic
number one become a student of what you
want to be first
that's the mindset what can I learn
what are people doing that is
calling to me what are people doing that
I don't like and so as I started being a
student of this really important that's
why I say Google Google is a search
engine become a student of what you want
to learn about or launch in your life
and there's a bazillion books there's
master classes there's free videos
there's workshops and what's so cool
people like Tom are unpacking this [ __ ]
for you with people and so you can also
hear people's stories and so I probably
just immerse myself in it Tom and I'd
say the first person that I called was
Rich Roll
and Rich Roll is a really good friend of
mine and amazing human amazing human
being and he was really cute uh I called
and said okay I'm gonna do this thing
what would you tell me
knowing everything you know having been
doing the podcast for seven years and
you know interesting about rich that guy
is an artist credible Storyteller
amazing uh story you know personal story
his hands are in every aspect of every
aspect of that podcast like that is
Rich's gift to the world and what he
said to me is he said
thrown on a mic
that's good advice turn on a mic
start recording [ __ ]
but I'm not ready
but I'm on the equipment but I haven't
done this but Mel
if you want to do this thing
turn on the mic and start taping
episodes and then listen to it and
they're gonna sound like [ __ ] and you're
gonna realize it's a hell of a lot
harder than you think it is and so
here's the second thing so number one
become a student right of what you want
and even if you don't know people or you
don't have a network that is you know
like the one that you and I have built
over time
you can still learn from people they
haven't met full stop especially with
YouTube it's crazy it's incredible and
then you just reverse engineer it
and so what you'll do is if you were to
Simply do this exercise like we're just
going to stick with the podcast episode
but you could insert anything how do I
start a dry cleaning business
you could Google I don't know how to use
that but I bet there's a video about it
how do I start a catering business do I
need a commercial kitchen to do that
like all these things somebody has
figured out and they have put a video
out or they've written a blog post or
they've written a book or they're doing
a course right now in it
as you're a student here's your
assignment from Mel Robbins write down
all the actions that you're learning
about that people do oh I got out for
podcasting I gotta learn how to edit
audio
oh I gotta learn about equipment oh I
gotta understand all these platforms oh
I've got to listen to a ton of podcasts
to understand what I like and what I
don't like oh I've got to record some oh
I've got to under like there's a
bazillion things right and so
keep that list handy because every day
you can wake up and look at that list
and there is your roadmap to what you
want to create in your life
and what happens next is there will be
something on that list
that is the starting line for real
like when [ __ ] gets real and for me that
was turning on a microphone which I
started doing about six months ago what
is up my friend Tom bilyu here and I
have a big question to ask you how would
you rate your level of personal
discipline on a scale of one to ten if
your answer is anything less than a ten
I've got something cool for you and let
me tell you right now discipline by its
very nature means compelling yourself to
do difficult things that are stressful
boring which is what kills most people
or possibly scary or even painful now
here is the thing achieving huge goals
and stretching to reach your potential
requires you to do those challenging
stressful things and to stick with them
even when it gets boring and it will get
boring building your levels of personal
discipline is not easy but let me tell
you it pays off in fact I will tell you
you're never going to achieve anything
meaningful unless you develop discipline
right I've just released a class from
Impact Theory university called how to
build Ironclad discipline that teaches
you the process of building yourself up
in this area so that you can push
yourself to do the hard things that
greatness is going to require review
right click the link on the screen
register for this class right now and
let's get to work I will see you inside
this Workshop from Impact Theory
University until then my friends be
legendary peace out
how did you deal with being bad if you
were bad in the beginning I was terrible
well because I you know I Yammer on and
on and on and I I have a very dyslexic
ADHD brain and so I'm all over the
freaking place and
it was interesting because I just
assumed having done six audio projects
with Audible and you know these two
self-published audio books that okay we
got a lot to talk about
well
one of the big takeaways for me in being
a student of this is that the podcast is
not about me it's about what my
intention is that I wanted to have the
listener experience
and if you are going to create something
that has an intention
it has a very different level of
artistry and discipline and purpose to
it
and so I figured out very quickly that
yes I personally want a podcast to sound
like two friends having a conversation
and without a certain level of prep and
intention
on my part it was not going to turn out
that way it was going to be Mel
Meandering all over the place
I mean even just here like you and I sit
down and we're 20 minutes into a
conversation and we're already like
you know we're like time out and so I
needed to
in my student mindset
I needed to be honest with myself
but there are things that I have as
natural talents and skills just like
everybody does
but I also have major weaknesses
that I gotta get under control
so that I don't derail possible success
and fulfillment with this project based
on my weaknesses that's the part I want
to understand though so you have these
weaknesses they're rearing their heads
you're having some kind of emotional
response how do you soothe yourself
through that is it just a belief that
hey I can learn I'll get to the other
side that the sort of awkwardness is the
natural part of the progression or what
do you do to keep that emotional demon
from consuming it it's an excellent
question it brings us to number three
right because we've talked about get up
we've talked about setting attention oh
we've talked about aligned action and
part of aligned action is about your
attitude so I
think
I am proud of this
unwavering
faith
and optimism
that I have programmed into my Noggin
over the past several years
that I believe that whatever it is that
I'm doing is leading me somewhere else
that every experience especially like
the shitty stuff the universe is guiding
me somewhere kind of way no I just feel
like so so
it could be mystical and spiritual
but for me it's more of an internal
grounded faith
and uh you know I think you and I talked
about this but I I I had this kind of uh
you know wake-up call moment where I
realized oh my God you know you and I
are sitting here today Tom
and if you and I look back at our lives
you can see how everything that happened
led you right here
and that even the hardest moments had a
deep purpose in shaping who you are your
skills your expertise your heart your
soul your habits your perspective and
knowing that that's always been true and
do you believe that that's true that
everything that's happened to you has
somehow prepared you for what's
happening now
I don't believe that it's prepared me I
think that it shapes you for sure I
think most people live by the law of
accident though and I'm terrified to
live by the law of accident what is the
law of accident that things happen and I
just go with them
yes I don't think everything happens for
well so one of my favorite quotes
everything happens for a reason but
sometimes the reason is that you're dumb
and unprepared or whatever and it's like
stupid yeah you make dumb decisions and
yeah that I will agree with yes but I
think that we make meaning and purpose
out of things I don't think they
intrinsically have meaning and purpose
so I think that life so I think the
second law of Thermodynamics is true
that everything leads towards entropy
AKA chaos and the only way to get it
back on track is what you're walking us
through which is you inject energy back
into the system and so this idea of
aligned action makes a lot of sense to
me you have to figure out okay I set my
I got out of bed I set my intention and
now I'm going to do things that align
with my intention yes but that's going
to be hard they're going to be things
that are knocking me off course yeah so
it's interesting that you have a deep
faith that like
I guess that you've made sense of
everything no here here's yeah let me
see if I can explain it this way
um I know I guess it makes me feel
grounded confident and assured
that all the [ __ ] that's happened back
there stuff I would not want to repeat
but if it brought me to here I would
that it has shaped me prepared me it has
had a purpose do you think things
sometimes shape you for the worse though
I think things shape you for the worse
until you get the lesson or the wake-up
call or the frustrated kind of rock
bottom moment
is Mel Robbins just unusually good at
making use of that I actually think you
are oh I I think you know I think that I
I hate the fact that I have
hit a [ __ ]
[ __ ] two extra audience though it's
really interesting so for the the
audience one of the first things you
said when you got here was I'm actually
doing really well right now I've learned
to like reject all the self-hatred and
beating myself up and all that yeah and
my reaction was that's amazing yeah but
you've made such extraordinarily good
use out of all your struggle you are
uniquely able to take that mess of life
and turn it into this really simple idea
that people can deploy immediately I
literally find it comforting knowing
that somehow every experience of my life
is going to be connected to Something in
the future because you're good at
learning lessons I have to put that
caveat yes and when I believe that the
[ __ ] that's going on
is going to somehow connect to Something
in the future
it allows me to be more resilient it
allows me to be a little bit more
um is it objective yeah objective when
things are going wrong or when I'm in a
really low point or when I listen to my
first couple like
episodes that I record okay ritual I'm
going to do a podcast episode now and I
listen I'm like holy [ __ ] this sucks
and I just
took on an advertising part like this
really sucks I got a lot of work to do
I go yeah and thank God you had that
call with Rich and thank God you're
listening to it because you're right Mel
if you want this to really make a
difference in people's lives if you want
to really do something awesome here
you're gonna have to [ __ ] like learn
something new walk me through that
process so what are you doing now the
first or what did you do the first few
episodes
before I came here so we have taped
about 17 versions of episode one not
because I'm like trying to be perfect
but because I have a certain standard
for what I want to put out there and
I literally
as we've gotten closer and closer and
closer and closer and closer to Launch
I just knew that what we had put out was
not what I was supposed to put out and
that and I and I kept standing though
not like in a place like we're fought
like we're literally launching four days
from this interview Tom
two hours ago I was in the corner
of my hotel room in L.A my team had
built a a uh remember your kids you make
those little forts out of uh uh sofa
cushions I am in a fortress of sofa
cushions on the floor of the uh hotel
room a mile from here
there is a [ __ ] truck outside the
window going
that sounds about right
and we've got like a deadline to get
this to our sound engineer so we can get
mixed in everything and
I know that this is this is all leading
somewhere else so there's no reason
to actually get stressed out about it
there's no reason to get nervous about
it
and so kind of being able to be in a
moment that's high pressure and know
that somehow it's going to work out and
somehow this lesson is going to connect
me to Something in the future and
somehow this All Leads somewhere it
allows me to show up when shits going
sideways in my life and still maintain
this centered focused level of
confidence and so
uh the show I think the show's [ __ ]
incredible honestly I'm so proud of what
we're doing and the first couple
episodes that we did they weren't good
enough honestly just weren't good enough
um I really wanna do something awesome
and so then the second show was a
complete accident we were filming
something else and my daughter calls
she's blown up my phone and she is in
the middle of finding out something and
what she found out is that somebody that
she used to like now likes one of her
really good friends
and it's not even about the breakup it's
about this emotional tsunami
that we all experience in life and how
do you find your Center when something
like that hits because the other
complicating entanglement is they're all
in the same music program
and they all make music together and so
I said call me when you get out of class
we stuck the phone to a microphone
as she's riding her bike and I'm like
get off your bike okay okay okay she
sits down and you listen to my 21 year
old daughter and I
unpack this entire situation
in real time so instead of talking about
the advice you're actually experiencing
it in real time with somebody who's
going through it which is exactly what I
wanted this to be I I I am I wanted to
have an experience that was more
intimate that was in real time that
would allow me to bring people into the
ups and downs and behind the scenes of
my life without turning it into a
reality show
because that's how I learn
I learn by not necessarily reading in
the book I learn by Falling on My Face I
learn by
screwing up I learned by getting
frustrated with myself because I'm
making excuses about the things that I
want to do and none of this Behavior
actually goes away I just find that like
as you level up
those kind of old
coping mechanisms and things that you do
to keep yourself where you are they just
level up with you
it's really interesting the idea that I
think this is an idea that you and I see
slightly differently I don't know that
it matters though it's like as long as
you have the frame of reference that
allows you to get to the other side
interesting but for me it's I again be
just like yours is based on your
experience Minds based on mine I have
found that the lessons do not come
automatically that if I don't pay
attention and find the lesson and remind
myself because the way that I remind
myself is there no matter how badly I
fail that I can learn from this and that
if I learn enough that knowledge will
stack and I'll be able to succeed in a
way so my thing is on a long enough
timeline I can be anyone at anything now
I don't believe that literally but it's
so close to true yeah that I'm like it
will keep moving me forward but I always
have the fear that the things that are
happening could very easily make things
worse
and it's really interesting that as I
get older I think about this a lot like
part of my anxiety has always been
around
it it has I've grown more anxious as I
become more self-aware and the reason
that I become more anxious as I become
more self-aware is I realize that there
are real stakes and I made a series of
decisions for instance That Grew my
business and allowed me to sell it for a
billion dollars had I made the wrong
decisions that wouldn't have happened
right and I've been in legal battles and
if you make the wrong decision it goes
one way if you make the right decision
it goes another and so there are moments
in life that really are ultra high
stakes and you have to pay attention and
you have to get it right and a certain
level of anxiety is useful but then
there becomes a point where it's too
much anxiety right and now that becomes
detrimental and that becomes the very
reason that you're making mistakes so
it's like this really fascinating
nuanced thing of recognizing the lesson
will not take care of itself I must get
in there get in the messy middle figure
it out and I soothe Myself by knowing
that
it's a Jim Carrey quote that I'm
paraphrasing
but he said these people came to me one
night at the whatever the comedy store
and they said hey Jim there's a big
casting agent there in the audience this
is your one chance do not blow it and he
went out and he blew it
and he came back and everyone's like oh
my God like this was your one shot and
he was like let me tell you this right
now until you've blown your one shot
five times he's like you haven't even
started yet and so I was like wow that's
really powerful to remember that it's
gonna seem like you've only got this one
shot but really you've got a lot
but those it's really they're real see
but here's the thing there are real
consequences but see I think you're
always playing a high stakes game you
can't help yourself it's in your DNA and
you're not somebody that's going to make
a stupid decision I know I am no you're
not I'm not gonna knowingly make a
stupid decision but I've made so many
stupid decisions what were they yeah
yeah 100 so I'll give you an example
okay so uh nfts yes a road map was a
mistake and a road map led me to 120
hours a week for eight months okay to
the point where people are like there's
no way you were working 120 hours oh I
can tell you I can run the math so it
was 120 or it was so dumb I was losing
sleep it was [ __ ] nightmarish and as
I got into it I realized what the
mistake was but I I didn't know enough
to avoid the mistake now I'm very glad
that I took action and I did it and I
built it and it's all going to be fine
in the end right but it it put me
through eight months of not fun it was
brutal and unenjoyable and taxing on my
marriage yeah so I would not repeat it
and if I wasn't able to say that was a
[ __ ] mistake don't do it again I'm
likely to repeat the mistake okay so so
here's the way I would frame that
that it had to be that painful because
you were a stubborn [ __ ] and you
would have not gotten the lesson but for
it being that painful and I only say
that because hello like I often wonder
why
is this happening to me like I during
the the here's the things I can talk
about during the pandemic between like
the talk show and the speaking business
coming to a freeze and being responsible
for payroll being the victim of wire
fraud uh having a bunch of stuff go down
with people that betrayed me and stole
from me and lied to me and on and on and
on I'm like I can't take one more
[ __ ] thing but there was a singular
lesson a singular lesson that I was too
stubborn too busy to whatever that I
could then see backwards oh [ __ ] wife's
been trying to teach me this for a while
and what it was trying to teach me is
number one you have to stop being
everybody's friends and you've got to
start being like you got to start
thinking like a [ __ ] CEO you are not
people's mother
you are a CEO technically you are three
people's money three but I was bringing
that into business
two because I'm not chasing celebrity or
not I don't view myself as this person
with this like massive list of
accomplishments I just view myself as
somebody who's sharing the stuff that
I'm learning because I want to help you
avoid the painful heartbreak mistakes
that I made because I didn't know any
better that to me is what drives me if I
can help you accelerate your success or
Shrink the amount of pain that you feel
I have won the game of life for me
personally and I feel deeply fulfilled
but I was not
being responsible about the platform
that I had built and I was not being
responsible about getting systems and
process in place and the more successful
I became it was interesting you and I
you know I started to have less and less
and less to be able to complain about
and so it like got pointed right back at
me
and the biggest wake-up call that I got
when everything started to implode over
the last two years was
somebody said to me you know Mel the
more successful you become
the more miserable you are
and are they saying that about you
specifically or they're just saying in
general yeah about me specifically is
like I've known you for eight years and
you're just you know like what you were
talking about Tom you're stressed out
you work all the time
whenever we check in you tend to focus
on the things that aren't working
and that tells me that nothing's working
and
the reason why everything's breaking is
because it's supposed to
and there are major mistakes that you're
making about how you're approaching
things who you've surrounded yourself
with the way that you're showing up and
life is breaking things because you're
not supposed to continue building on
this messy Foundation
and When I Look Backwards Tom just like
you kind of Look Backwards you can
probably see oh I wish I would have made
it I would say about myself that
heartache I didn't know any better and
clearly I am the kind of person that
whether it's because I move so fast or
I'm distracted or whatever it may be I
need a sledgehammer to change directions
and I have now committed in this next
phase of my life
to change a lot of the patterns that
weren't making me happy
and so when you and I saw each other
today and you asked how I was doing I
mean it like I am starting to have a
breakthrough and happiness and being
content
and I'm realizing and this makes me very
sad to say
I'm not sure I ever really knew
What happiness feels like as a Baseline
like I feel like I'm the kind of person
I've experienced a lot of Joy I've
laughed a lot I've had some fun I've got
tremendous amount of memories I'm a good
person but in terms of having a sense of
contentment and peace
and being able to just be in the moment
and enjoy where I am I have never
experienced that as sort of a a way of
being what was the Breakthrough
well I think it was
um probably two years of a lot of things
breaking apart
it was the fact that during covid
especially during quarantine I couldn't
go anywhere
and it made me confront the fact that I
was regulating
any uncomfortable feeling by being busy
and you know there's some interesting
things that I've been really unpacking
about anxiety
and it relates to this
so I started to see that the way I had
been doing things not sustainable
by also being home I had this like
feeling of deep sadness because all of
our kids were home and I realized oh my
God I missed out on our daughter's High
School
and I'm about to miss out on Oakley's
High School experience
because I am so buried in work and I'm
so and I'm chasing the next speech or
the next plane or writing this book that
I'm not present in my life
and the other thing that started to
happen is because I couldn't reach for
the coping mechanism of running to
Target or running to meet a friend or
running to catch a plane I was forced to
sit with myself
and I started to realize that my
experience in my body and in my mind is
one where I feel like a race car that is
sitting at a stoplight and the life
turns it green
and one foot's on the brake and the
other one's revving the engine
and that there is this experience that I
have lived with forever of feeling
um just like the engine is revving and
something's wrong
and I know it comes from childhood I
know that it comes from the fact that
you know I had a mom that had me when
she was 19 and she dropped out of
college my parents are still together 54
years later wow and she was a Teen Mom
she was halfway across the country from
you know the large family farm and it
must have been horrible
and she was alone and my dad's starting
medical school and they were financially
had nothing and she was an unplanned
pregnancy and they got married like that
summer after she dropped out of school
and I believe that my mom's like stress
at that time
is something that I absorbed and I'm not
blaming an honor I'm like talking about
the science here of how zero to five
particularly in those years where you're
not verbal you have experiences as a kid
where you're not a match with your
parents and by not a match I mean that
what you need as a kid is not a match
for the way in which your parent shows
up I am sure I am not a match for all
three of my kids all the time that maybe
there's a moment where one of my kids
really needs me to be soft and loving
and kind and and just hold them and I'm
like talking and doing solutions that
means you're not a match and what
happens from zero to five is that
because your survival depends on
attachment
when there's not that match emotionally
for whatever reason
your parents aren't present they're
dealing with their own [ __ ] they never
got it themselves or like a lot of times
there's just those of us that need a lot
of love
and you have a parent that only has so
much to give
there's this famous tdg I think it's TD
Jakes example where he was talking to
Oprah and he said I'm probably going to
get this wrong but he said he was
explaining to her look you're just like
a 10 gallon person
you need 10 gallons of love and maybe
your mom had this much to give and so
there can be a mismatch because when a
parent gives you everything they have to
give but it's only a drop in the bucket
for what you actually need because
you're a unique individual
you feel
threatened you feel unsafe you feel
separate
and so I've recently learned from Dr
Russell Kennedy should have mine it's
fascinating that all anxiety starts from
an experience of being separate from
your parents as a child
and that when you're separate from your
parents there's an alarm that goes off
and that's what we call anxiety as
adults and so when you have an
experience as an adult
a lot of us and I for years thought
about anxiety as something that was like
an alarm Bell something's wrong go fix
it that's where all the doing comes in
my business Tom was my attempt to outrun
the alarm
my busyness my overachieving my drive it
was all like a coping mechanism for
something going on in the background all
the time
and anytime I would be in a situation
where I felt separate which was often
like I have often had the experience of
feeling like I'm on the outside looking
in that alarm is going off and so I dive
into work a lot of people silence the
alarm my husband did this by smoking
weed every day makes the alarm feel a
little bit more quiet people do it with
drinking they do it with uh porn with
all kinds of addictions and so I
developed this addiction
to being busy and to constantly being in
my head worrying about things like it's
its own form of addiction and so during
the pandemic when things got really
quiet
and I couldn't reach for my normal
coping mechanisms I like just started
feeling like I was having a mental
breakdown oh and I got very serious
about really going Inward and figuring
out what is actually going on here you
journaling you meditating when I was
going inward I'm a marriage therapist I
I tracked down a therapist that works
only with women around these sort of
attachment issues are I did EMDR
sessions the eye movement stuff my
husband and I did several MDMA therapy
sessions that were guided that were just
revolutionary life-changing and I
started to
experience something that I've talked
about for years but I have never been
still enough to truly put into practice
and that is that most of us treat mental
health issues by going from what I would
say the neck up
I wish there was a different word than
Mental Health
I really do because mental health makes
you think it's up here
any issue that you have time that
relates to the way that you think or
physiological changes in your body or or
like on edge anxiety all that [ __ ] it's
all in your body
your body has stored experience and mind
or just they're all connected but your
body so let's go neck down neck down is
where the money is people neck down is
where the healing is neck you want to
make more money you want to be confident
you want to be more content happy all
this stuff
let's talk about the neck down
we've we spend a ton of time talking
about really useful things in the
toolkit like meditating like uh managing
your thoughts interrupting your thoughts
changing the channel working on mindset
that gets you so far and yes those
things have a benefit in terms of what
happens in your body like we know based
on all the extraordinary research around
meditating what the physiological effect
is what the chemical effect is the
effect on stress but I am a living
example that if you start to attack
any mental health issue or any mindset
issue
from the neck down
holy [ __ ] talk to me about how you do
that so
how you do it first of all is by
understanding a simple fact you feel
before you think
and so because all the experiences in
your childhood are stored and remembered
in your body your nervous system your
gut your heart like all this stuff it's
all interconnected I mean when you and I
were uh in utero the same embryonic
Clump that forms the brain as you know
you talk about on the show is connected
to the gut it's the same glob of stuff I
know it's not technical I'm not a doctor
yeah and then like when you pull it
apart like that stuff that goop that
kids play with and that stringy [ __ ]
connects the two those are the
neurotransmitters and the thing called
the vagus nerve that literally act like
a super highway from your gut to your
brain that your nervous system isn't you
know we think of the nervous system and
I don't know about you but I think about
like you know the wires in your body and
all that it's more than that it's your
gut it's your heart it's how
everything's all connected it's all of
it stuff that's hopelessly complicated
for people that don't know the enteric
nervous system so from your esophagus to
your anus actually has as many neurons
literal brain neurons uh as a cat brain
so when you think about having a
personality like think about how much a
cat does and how specific they can be
and how much personality they have and
how one is different than another it's
really crazy and then if you magnify
that a thousand fold by taking in all
the bacteria and fungus and viruses and
all that that live in your microbiome it
gets crazy when I heard that 70 of your
serotonin is stored in the gut that's
when I was like what is happening yeah
yeah that's true a balance gut is
everything and so I just
real and so when you start to understand
wait a minute like there's all these
physical Sensations that we have that
are stored experiences
and those physical Sensations send an
alert to your brain and then your brain
starts scanning and trying to interpret
the signal that your body is sending it
so I'll give you a simple example so
um
I walked into a
um like a trunk show that a woman was
hosting in this new community that we
live in and amazing group of women
invited me to come over to look at this
dress line that a woman had just
launched so supporting a female
entrepreneur meeting all these other
cool women that have moved to this small
town
and I walk in
and I immediately feel the alarm go off
and it may surprise you because I seem
to be a very outgoing person but the
truth is I was kind of shy as a kid and
I'm not a big group person I'm a really
like one-on-one kind of person big
parties are not my scene I was never the
big girl gang kind of person and
um I love having lots of friends but I'm
way more comfortable in smaller settings
and so I feel this alarm go off and I've
just you know been immersed for the last
year and a half in
my own healing and so I go oh
interesting I wonder why this is going
off and I walk in and I'm greeted by you
know a wonderful group of probably nine
women and right after I hug everybody
and I start to look around I realize
they all start talking again and they
all have kids the same age they've known
each other for a couple years and I have
that immediate feeling of being separate
and I go oh that's that's what this is
that's exactly what Dr Kennedy was
talking about this is an experience that
is super subtle where this alarm goes
off now the old Mel would have been like
oh my God I shouldn't have moved to this
town I'm never gonna make friends with
people this is a horrible decision
aiming it right back at me
immediately interpreting the alarm like
something's wrong because from an
evolutionary standpoint when back in the
day when there were saber-toothed tigers
the alarm going off inside your body
meant there was something wrong
so now that I know that this is just a
stored experience in moments where the
little Mel
T alone I now know that the fastest way
to flip the switch is to like literally
just put my hand right here and be like
you're okay
like just give myself the reassurance
that I didn't get in whatever moment my
mod my body's remembering from childhood
and literally the alarm disappears
and so when you start to
become very self-aware about your body
and when you go on edge or when you
freeze or when you feel that withdrawal
all you have to do is give yourself a
little reassurance and love in that
moment because that's all that it is
anxiety is from the little you
and it is waving a flag to say hey turn
in word and give me a hug or do whatever
he's got this great exercise we can take
a towel and just go like this and it's
almost like giving yourself a hug
and I will tell you Tom absolute Game
Changer because instead of doing what I
have done for 52 years which is I feel
something's wrong and I go upstairs and
then I try to manage the psycho thoughts
that are going on
I just go right into my body and cut it
off at the past and when your mind
doesn't get involved and doesn't start
interpreting all of the signaling in
your body it passes within what's the
research says like 90 seconds but when
you get really good at it it passes like
that so things like
um uh cold exposure so we have
um an ice barrel and we've got this
other cold plunge thing that Joel Marin
just sent to me as a gift or buddy I do
that like several times a week uh the
other thing that I do is I always
exercise every day whether it's taking
the dog for a walk I get outside first
thing in the morning
um I do all kinds of breathing
techniques uh whether it's like I just
learned a new one where you take in two
nose breaths
and then
it seems dumb and you look really stupid
doing it breathing stuff's so food it is
like the exhale is the important part
because when you breathe in through your
nose like that it shuts off your brain
thinking you cannot do that and think
about something like try to do a math
problem while you're going you can't do
it and then blow out through your teeth
clothes
and the longer the exhale the better
because it's on the exhale
that you are learning and signaling your
body that you're in control in this
moment and so all these somatic
techniques another really game-changing
one
is because I now think around the
Paradigm of neck up
right neck up is managing things through
your mindset and the five second rule is
a very neck up approach
it's a way to force your brain to move
from the subconscious to the conscious
but it's neck up and yes it works and
yes it helps interrupt thoughts and yes
it helps to redirect Behavior
but in many ways it's sort of like a
push
and what I've found is the more that I
go from the neck down as an approach I
think it's called somatic therapy my
Chris is actually getting a masters in
transformational Psychology right now
just transformational psychology yeah I
think that's what it's called is this
about somatic it's about somatic
Sensations and also the integrative
therapy with plant-based medicine he is
studying to be a death Doula like
Chris's a death Doula what is that it is
somebody that so if hospice
is somebody that comes in and is with
you as you're dying and helps the family
and basically will do whatever the
family needs or what the person who's
you know terminally ill needs a death
Doula is a trained counselor that sits
with you
so that you have spiritual guidance
sessions about completing your life and
the meaning of your life yeah that's
what my husband is drawn to do
um he's just felt a call to do it is
there any unresolved thing there for him
oh I'm sure I'm sure but you know we had
his dad alive for 18 months as he was
dying from esophageal cancer and Chris
sat with him all the time and I want to
do more of this
thank God because I don't I mean if you
don't either he is a deep guy and he is
deeply interested in helping people find
meaning and alleviating suffering and
you know at some point we're all gonna
die and I think he was very moved by
that book Tuesday With Maury and just
the experience of being with people at
the end of their life I mean there's so
much wisdom from people at the end of
their lives because you're reflecting on
everything
and there's a lot to learn and I think
there's also a lot of comfort that that
somebody that's trained to do so can
provide to somebody that is Reckoning
with something that we're all going to
have to face in our lives
and so I think it just creates deeper
meaning for him
to be studying these things and helping
people and I mean all of his work is
about men's Retreats and helping men
that have been chasing success to to
truly figure out how to be happy
how to be themselves
how to rewrite the book so to speak
wow all right this is all I know we're
like a deep couple this is why nobody
invites us over for dinner like we're
not bringing those two over it's going
to be therapy I love this to death in
fact let's get into some of this therapy
so what was the most transformational
piece of therapy that you guys did as a
couple
um I think well the most
transformational for sure was MDMA
guided therapy
um but it was also inside a container
where we've been we see a marriage
counselor and that's even like a dumb
word for it we literally talked to a
therapist once a week it is so amazing
because when you've been married we've
been married for 26 years aren't you
guys like 21 years what 20 20 years when
you've been married that long
um and you've known each other for that
long
you are
like it's very easy you know people use
the word roommates but our therapist
highlighted something that was invisible
to both of us which is that Chris and I
have become masterful at doing things
together
we can build a house
we can organize three kids on a calendar
we can coordinate you know who's going
to the vet with the dog we can do all
that stuff and we can still go out on a
date night and we can still like you
know have a great time together and go
hiking in the woods but there is a level
to which
emotionally and spiritually
we were sequestered from one another
explain the difference between emotional
and spiritual so emotional is in my book
the things that you're feeling
and spiritual is a deeper landscape
about the meaning in your life and your
sense of purpose and so you guys just
weren't sharing those things I think we
had gotten so busy
and had fallen just into kind of the
logistics of three kids and a dog and
building a house and businesses and just
how busy life is for all of us
that we were not creating these deep
moments of coming back together
and really
unpacking what we're thinking about and
we also had a very unhealthy Dynamic and
the dynamic was this
um
because my coping mechanism with the
alarm
is to go go go go go go go go go go go
go go go I'll take care of it I'll take
care of it I got it I got it like over
functioning anxiety and because and you
know I also you know just being kind to
myself My Success time came at a time
where you know Chris and I were
struggling financially and so so much of
My Success was fueled by crisis sure and
so when I first started getting booked
for speeches [ __ ] we had liens on the
house we were major like hundreds and
hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt
Chris had left the restaurant business
he was on a two-year like trying to just
deal with depression and he had stopped
drinking and he was just lost he felt
like a complete failure so I am out
there on their own like yes yes yes yes
yes yes yes and I had this one Focus
which is like pay off the lanes get the
savings back start paying our bills and
that all happened but I never clicked
out of that mode
meanwhile I married clearly to a man who
is so deeply spiritual
he's a certified yoga instructor he's
done the 500 hour Buddhist Meditation
training with the tiknan Han Monastery
he leads you know and started this men's
Retreat Soldier he wants to be a death
Doula I was going to say that's like the
Capstone yeah and and he's married to a
freaking hurricane of emotion right and
so he's my rock I'm the tornado he is
the foundation of our family I am the
entertainment like that rolls in and it
works
but it doesn't work because what was
happening is we were getting further and
further and further away from one
another
as I got busier and busier and busier
Chris's coping mechanism for the alarm
that goes off is to withdraw
and so Chris was withdrawing into
smoking weed into his work into being a
stay-at-home dad and we were not seeing
each other we were not connecting with
each other and so I started Chris
started to tell himself a story that she
doesn't need me and she's too busy and I
you know why would I buy her a Christmas
present because she's probably already
bought them anyway and the things that I
do like you know she redoes them anyway
and now meanwhile I'm got the story
where I'm like
why isn't he buying me a birthday
present like why didn't he plan a party
oh I'll just do it and so our coping
mechanisms
for those alarms of feeling separate
which we're both feeling for one another
are literally the exact opposite of what
we both need for one another and so it
just gets bigger and bigger and bigger
and yet on the surface we're functioning
and life looks good and we're laughing
and we're enjoying each other but
the big wake-up call for me and you know
I now realize I'm really answering the
question that you asked me which is what
was the thing that led you on this path
of really
trying to figure out how to be happy
is I realized during the pandemic how
profoundly lonely I've been I have been
profoundly lonely in my business
I have been profoundly lonely in my
marriage not that Chris isn't there but
just missing this like amazing
connection that Chris and I have had for
so many years I have been lonely because
I have been working so hard that I have
not been around and friendships have
basically you know just kind of it's not
that they're not there it's that I just
don't have that in my life because of
the decisions that I had made about work
and how much I was traveling it all
makes sense but I just realized holy
like I'm [ __ ] isolated I'm lonely I
love the work that I do but in terms of
it's it's what I've got
and I don't want to be that person I
don't want to wake up and you know
Oakley's graduated from college and I
missed it I don't want to like all of a
sudden feel like you know Chris is now
like off doing these things and I'm not
a part of that
like everything that I've been building
was meant to fix our financial problems
and I realized like I missed out on why
I was doing in the first place
and it's a very easy thing for we
overachievers and our high anxiety
functioning kind of people and people
with anxiety can get into and
so covid was such a gift even though it
was very very painful because it broke
the Paradigm at its core
and I realized that I if I was going to
fix this I had to address
this feeling of being deeply lonely
and that meant there was a shitload of
stuff that I needed to change about my
business about my habits about the
rhythm of the week and so
um I made a commitment that I wanted to
identify every aspect of my life where I
felt friction
like any grumbling
any
um kind of like that negative energy
when you think about this aspect of your
life
and
the interesting thing about when you set
an intention
or you decide that you're going to
change your life is that if you watch
this episode with Tom and I are like
okay I'm gonna be happier guess what
life does not hand you happiness it
brings to the surface all the [ __ ]
that's not making you happy
because as long as that [ __ ] is there
there's no room for happiness
so when I said I want to remove
everything that creates this sort of uh
real friction inside me
of course what Rises to the surface is
not common peace it's everything that's
broken
and so
one by one and the most important thing
to me is my marriage because the whole
point of being a parent is to raise your
kids so they leave and they go build
their own lives and you hope that they
find somebody that you love like you
love your partner and so the number one
priority was getting back
energetically spiritually emotionally
connected with Chris and it was a
painful process because
when Chris's coping mechanism for Stress
and Anxiety and you know feelings of not
being worthy we're going up his coping
mechanism and mechanism is to withdraw
and so having a third party that would
facilitate conversations
gave Chris this platform to be able to
speak and it gave me
this platform to just be able to listen
and to start to work on this muscle that
I had honed over time of fixing
everything
and what Chris really just was missing
for me is just being together
and being heard
and I had jumped so into a mode of doing
and fixing that what Chris needed most
again we're back to this mismatch thing
I was becoming a mismatch it's not like
we were on the verge of divorce or
anything but just if you feel lonely or
disconnected in your relationship
go to where there's a mismatch what is
it that you need that you're not getting
but you're afraid to ask for
how did MDMA help with all this I I
really think I wish the world could do
this so we found out through a friend
who had uh had this experience with two
therapists that are involved in all of
the maps protocol
and
um
they and there's this big community in
this area of people that are doing the
integrative therapy that happens like
after an experience where you go in a
therapeutic setting and you do MDMA or
you do psilocybin or cyber silent I
always say it wrong or ketamine
psilocybin or ketamine or any one of
these incredibly encouraging and awesome
new modalities that are out there and so
there's the thing about it is is that
everybody focuses on the actual like
hallucinogenic experience but the real
magic is in the integration therapy that
you do sick for six to eight weeks or a
year or whatever to actually take that
experience and apply it into your life
so with MDMA which I think the street
name is ecstasy or Molly
um you go into uh this you go into a
room and for us it was like imagine a
barn that's like a nice yoga studio with
a wood burning stove and the therapist
couple that helped us do this and
facilitated literally looked like you
would buy the most amazing photos from a
farmer's market from them like just you
just want to hug them amazing married
couple
and this
modality had changed their marriage
after decades and so
we go in you set an intention
you then take uh whatever it is that you
take it's in a pill form and then you
sit and talk and about 30 minutes in you
start to feel warm and so they want you
to then quickly get onto your like cots
or mattresses or whatever you're on and
the the wife was with me and the husband
was with Chris and you put on this mask
and then you put on these headphones and
they have a six hour long
delicious playlist
and it is the most magical you guys are
going to be talking for sure oh no no
it's not an external experience
it's an internal one
this is shocking
it is totally different than taking it
in the same room yes you're gonna start
talking to each other at all are you
just listening to music and you're
blindfolded are you meant to think about
your part oh dude no no no so wait to
hear this okay so
do they give you instructions before the
headphones go on
well all they said is like if you need
anything just reach over and one of us
is sitting there and if there's
something that you want to remember uh
say so and we'll write it down if you
have to go to the bathroom like you know
we'll help you get to the bathroom right
and are you listening to the same
playlist yes okay and they're listening
to it too so it's both in your like
crazy like the high def headphones right
and they're listening to it in the room
and
Tom
we've now done this twice
uh the full protocol which I'll explain
the first experience was completely
different than the second one
interesting and what they say is that
the
um
the the medicine
uh the music is the guide
because what happens is this
when your vision is blocked
and the music begins
if when you drop into the the MDMA and
the reason why MDMA is so helpful is
because it blocks the amygdala
so in guided therapy with a with an
intention you can revisit things in your
life they're not guiding you the music
theoretically and your intention is but
if you want to talk they're there so
I'll explain what happened to me so my
intention the first time we did this
because this was about 18 months ago is
I'm like I'm sick of being miserable I'm
sick of this campaign of misery I'm so
sick and tired of seeing what's wrong
and not being able to be like happy I
want to remember
the happy moments of my life I want to
look back on my life so far and see the
amazing things I want to be reminded of
that you know because that cognitive
negative bias in our brain is a [ __ ]
[ __ ] like the fact that they it makes
you think
of all the things that went wrong and it
amplifies those things as a way to
protect you versus magnifying the beauty
in your life so that's what I wanted
the headphones go on I feel this big
wave come up my body
I take a deep breath and all of a sudden
I have this sensation time where I am
literally floating it's almost like you
know that's that that that uh roller
coaster Space Mountain yeah so it's like
you're on Space Mountain going slow and
I'm in the air and I'm flying and all of
a sudden I realize oh my God there's
Bear Lake there's a lake I grew up on
and I I like swoop down
and there I am with Jody bricken my
childhood best friend and we're ice
skating is this Vivid like
hallucinations
I just no I was there like it's not even
like a projection it's like you're in
the movie hmm
and
I was in the thing like it was just this
relived experience and so what it's
doing is it's unlocking your
subconscious and allowing you because it
suppresses the amygdala to experience
things without a fear response okay so
we're with Jody brick in yep so that
last and then the music changes like you
have no did we learn a lesson with you
no I'm just like this feeling
and then the music changes and I see
these like little feet like uh like a
baby and I look up at the sky and I'm
looking from the perspective clearly of
the the uh stroller and I look up at the
sky and it's this bright blue impact
blue theory blue
and there are these big clouds
they're kites everywhere everywhere Tom
and then I look ahead
and it's my mom and my dad
and
she was so [ __ ] young
like I I I
saw her in that moment and I saw
something that I'd never like allowed
myself to consider
which is holy [ __ ] they were kids
and here they are in the middle of
Kansas and their families are a two-day
drive away and they got this brand new
baby
she was so young
and I had never stopped to think about
what it must have been like for her
and I felt this huge wave
and I'm I reach retire I'm like I can't
handle this I can't handle this and
she's like yes you can she's like what
are you feeling and so she puts her
hands on my chest and I start breathing
in deep and I just am like I she just
and I I felt so much love
for her
and you know we've had this intensely
loving intensely like combative
relationship
and I think at a deep psychological
level she's said as much she gave up
everything to have me
and so there's a real tension of feeling
deeply proud and also feeling like I
never got to do that
right and so
it really shifted something in me and
and then it just like every music it was
a different experience and like I flew
over the house that we live in in
Vermont now I saw my daughter's wedding
I saw this place it just was like the
highlight reel
of past present and future
and it had this effect Tom
of feeling like
somebody had gone through every
nerve in my body like with a little
coconut oil and just smoothed it out
interesting and
when I was driving and the other thing
that's really interesting about this
experience is that the second that you
take the eye mask off or the thing
you're out of it
like you're literally like wait where
did that world go and you can get up and
go the bathroom you're like I gotta get
back in there because this is going to
wear off like it it's crazy
so
um when I was driving home from it I
called my parents I'm like oh my God
isn't saying and I said there was this
one woman I didn't tell the vision I
just said you know I I was just like I
think I might have been a baby and I was
looking up at the sky in their kite so
you're like oh that was Kansas City
you're probably one years old there's a
park by where we lived I don't remember
this I don't have a single photo of it
it was something stored here that there
was something in the music that
connected to an emotional feeling that I
felt as a child in that moment the
memory came up
incredible so the second piece that you
do in this therapy is that
six weeks later you take it as a couple
you get on with the zoom call with the
you know two therapists you set your
intention and then you sit together you
can have music you cannot you can do
whatever and because you've had this
shared experience and you've been doing
therapy you now have this incredible
experience where
No Holds Barred
it all comes out like now you're talking
oh yeah now you're talking for hours and
hours and hours and hours therapists are
there on Zoom no you they just set you
up and then you do your thing and then
you go for it and then you report back
in and that Ex two experiences literally
it was as if somebody
reconnected that energetic between the
two of us and it hasn't left now the
second time that we did this because the
day we moved into our house up in
southern Vermont
um that we just have relocated to from
Boston
we had them come back because we wanted
to do a ceremony
in the new house and so same exact thing
Chris is on this Scott over here I'm
over here on this mattress pillows
blankets whatever we set Our intention
and I say I want to because now I'm
working on happiness and I'm working on
catching this campaign of misery which
is what I refer to as this framework
that I had where I didn't even realize
how much I kept myself Company by
complaining to myself mostly about me
mostly about like the things I was doing
wrong and it was the high five habit
that had me start to see it and
interrupt it
and
once I noticed it it was sort of
overwhelming how often the first thing I
thought about was negative
or it was focused on what I wasn't doing
or it was jumping ahead to 15 things I
didn't need to worry about today but I
was so used to it in the background it's
very common you could adopt these things
from parents or not or whatever
so
we take the thing we put the iPhones on
headphones we're in our brand new house
I you know I have this expectation that
it's just going to be magical nothing
[ __ ] happens
and so I'm laying there I'm like where's
the [ __ ] visions
where's the kites
where is that and I'm starting to get
agitated
and I'm starting to feel friction
and I start tapping on the I I don't
think you guys gave me enough because
I'm not saying anything she's like it's
working
I'm like no no I don't like nothing's
happening here like I what's happening
like I'm not and and I I said is it
working for Chris he's like oh yeah he's
like deep in it
I'm like well something's wrong she's
like
the medicine is giving you exactly what
you need
and so now I'm like laying there Tom and
I'm like why is it working for him and
it's not working for me like I don't
know
I'm in it I'm like in The Matrix
of my own [ __ ]
why and then I start going wait a minute
what if you just laid here for five
hours and listened to music why would
that be bad why do you have to be
complaining why are you judging
everything and so now I'm in my own head
zero hallucinations zero memory zero
anything
and so hours go by like this where I
don't [ __ ] shut up and I'm getting
more and more and more friction it's
like my whole body is like why isn't
this working finally I say Tanya
this is going to be over soon
and I'm not going to have like I don't
know how to let go how and she kept
going just drop in
just let it work just just
let go Mel I'm like I don't know how and
she's like exactly that's what it's
trying to teach you to do
and then I said but if I don't figure
this out
if I don't figure out how to [ __ ] let
go how to just be okay
this whole thing's gonna be over
and I mean I've missed it and then she
said just like your life
and that was like holy [ __ ] and so I
just
stopped and I laid there and I don't
know how long it took but next thing you
know it was like all there and that was
not the real breakthrough the real
breakthrough was literally it happened
like for the next six weeks
I felt I know it was going to sound
really weird
but I the next day I could not get off
the couch
in a negative way
in a weird way
I sat on that couch
for at least 36 hours is this a
depletion of Serotonin kind of negative
rebound I felt like I had like wax
candle dripping energy off me that there
were energetic layers
shedding from my being
that the because the [ __ ] I'm trying to
break apart Tom is generational [ __ ]
I want the campaign of misery as a
default to end with me
I do not want my kids to have it I do
not want to spend the rest of my life
focused on what's not working or beating
myself up
and
I think that you can a thousand percent
from the neck down
you can change your experience of what
life feels like
and though that experience and all the
therapy and the ice baths and the
slithering out of bed which we haven't
talked about which is a whole nother
thing I think all of this stuff of
getting out of my head and into here
it has caused this seismic earthquake
inside me
and it's allowed me to break apart [ __ ]
that I didn't even know I was carrying
with me from generations and generations
and generations of behavior of
hard-working immigrant you know tough
and all this stuff not that there's
anything wrong with that but I want to
experience love
I want to be able to be present in my
life I want to feel
something other than something's wrong
or okay we're laughing now but all right
now we're back at the grind tomorrow
morning that there's a way to go through
life I know it where you feel more like
you're on that raft above the wave and
it this like shedding from that
experience lasted like four or five
weeks it was wild
absolutely wild and I feel
um you know is it just like is this
sustainable I don't know I think it's
like any other muscle
catching when my thoughts go like even
today when we were filming our podcast
earlier today and the shit's going
sideways and the truck's backing up the
old me the Allah I would have literally
been up here
I would have sounded different on the
podcast because I would have gone right
up here and started doing the thing I do
and I was able to just
it's gonna be fine guys
it's incredible
yeah I find the use of drugs to be very
intriguing now I haven't done it but as
somebody who has drank alcohol or smoked
weed like I understand how profoundly an
exogenous substance can make you
perceive the world differently my whole
thing is frame of reference and there's
what do you mean by that
yeah
in the same way that if I bend glass I
can get you to see yourself in a
distorted funhouse mirror way yeah I can
bend glass and turn it into a telescope
I can make it represent what we would
call objective reality but those slight
distortions in the way that the glass is
handled completely Alters your
perception
all of us see the world in a certain way
and so the story that put this on my
radar so I'm working in the inner cities
I'm dealing with people that have been
through profound difficulties and I'm
looking at poverty and I don't really
understand the nature of it so it feels
to me like poverty is about not having
money
but I've been broke I've been unable to
pay bills and I was poor but I wasn't
broke or vice versa depending on how you
define the terms and
I started to realize oh this isn't a
money problem this is a belief system
problem
but when you think about what beliefs do
is they create a way of perceiving the
world and so the moment that it all
clicked for me was talking to this guy
and he was really smart really smart and
I was like dude you're so smart you're
probably smarter than me but you're not
doing anything with your life what the
[ __ ]
and he was like oh yeah well my mom told
me that the world doesn't want people to
look like me to succeed
and I was like the world probably told
them that's true in a bazillion
different ways you know but I was like
that's the dumbest frame of reference
I've ever heard in my life and the
reason is even if it's true it makes you
not take any action and the only thing
that will guarantee your failure is not
taking action and so I was like I know
that your mom had the best of intentions
when she said that she wanted to save
you from heartache she wanted to prepare
you for difficulties but the reality is
it made you not try
and I was like the reality is you can
get so good that people can't stop you
from being successful and as I said that
I realized ah this is frame of reference
my frame of reference is that yes I'm
not as smart as I would like to be but I
can learn and I can get better and if I
get good enough at something people
can't stop me from doing it your frame
of references I might as well not even
try because the world is going to stop
me
and if I were to adopt your frame of
reference I would get the same outcome
because it's now what I call the only
belief that matters the only belief that
matters is that you can get better
and if you believe that you can't get
better or that getting better doesn't
yield any results then what would be the
point why would you try and since
we all end up bumping up against reality
which is that skills have utility and so
if you lack the utility then you won't
be able to do the things you want to do
and if you have the utility people can't
stop you whether they want to or not
we're all going to bump up against that
reality and any frame of reference that
stops you from pursuing improvements
skill acquisition is doomed to fail from
the beginning
and so then I became obsessed with whoa
this is actually a game of frame of
reference how do I give somebody the
frame of reference that says no matter
how the deck is stacked against you you
have to learn to play better
and that I mean that is impact Theory
it's literally why it's called impact
Theory this is my theory oh interesting
so well and that's especially important
not only when your mother says it but if
you uh are a person that societies
organized and sending messaging and
discriminating against you that message
just gets reinforced by your live
experience and so it gets reinforced by
what how you interpret it well that's
your brain if your brain from a very
young age
people is told the message that people
that look like you
like don't succeed so don't bother
whether it's told from your parents or
you get that from your school or you get
that from the media or you get that from
some [ __ ] that says it to you your
brain and the RAS of course lets it in
and then looks for matching theories it
starts spotting it and so it's both true
that bias and discrimination exists and
your mind organizes itself to see it
everywhere as well and so you have to
fight I think I think it's really hard
to fight against these things that are
out in the world that are like for me I
was not dealing with it from society I
had built enough of a of a cage in my
own mind that's what I was breaking
through what I'm trying to say is I
think shows like impact Theory are
essential because if you start to
believe that [ __ ] whatever that [ __ ] is
that's not true because everybody is
capable of change period you and I have
seen too much evidence of it that you
could try to argue to Tom and to Mel
Robbins that this person is beyond
change it is complete [ __ ] I think
everybody is capable of change unless
you have some sort of incredible
psychosis or diagnose something or
another that makes it neurologically
incapable
everybody's capable of change and so the
importance of what you're doing cannot
be understated because our brains are
organized to spot evidence that matches
our belief system that's the way the res
works and until you start to interrupt
the story that you're telling yourself
you're going to continue to feel stuck
you're going to continue to see those
thoughts and you're the kind of content
that you're putting out is hugely
important because the other thing that
interrupts the res is representation if
you see somebody that looks like you or
you see somebody like me that was facing
bankruptcy 14 years ago and have liens
on my house and you see somebody else
that face the [ __ ] that you feel
overcome by it's proof that you can do
it too and so thank God you're doing
this
yeah it's interesting getting people to
realize that
whatever your frame of reference is
been a series of choices that you've
made about what to believe
and the problem is most people think
that what they believe they have simply
realized objective reality
and so getting people to understand that
it's not objective reality that it is a
distortion it's a fun house mirror that
we all
construct and it starts when we're young
so it's like who's responsible for
constructing it I'm not even worried
about that all I care about is you can
reshape the glass at any time
and getting people to really engage with
whatever your frame of reference is
there's a frame of reference that will
move you towards your goals and there's
a frame of reference that will move you
away from your goals that's the aligned
action thing exactly and the catches
that aligned action follows from the
intention which follows from the you
didn't say wake up but I'll say wake up
in my own language of recognizing that
all the things you believe are it's a
construct now it's a construct that's
based on things that are
real you bump into something it really
does hurt and so
that that stimulus is real but the
response is chosen and so the story that
you tell yourself well hold on a second
here's where I would push back so where
I would push back is this I think once
you become an adult
and you're outside of the family home or
the the church or of origin or whatever
the hell it is
that you now
once you get away from that container
you have a choice and away from that
container may be in that you've logged
onto YouTube
and you found videos that make you start
to think different and to question what
has been programmed in
I believe that most of us do not have a
choice when we're little that we are say
when you're little okay well I just want
to clarify that because because I feel
that most of the programming that most
of us have was absorbed
five and under and that most of the [ __ ]
that we react to is some sort of
response to a past experience
and that it's not until you have a
wake-up call from somebody like Tom
bilyeu or you see somebody that has been
in your circumstance uh that has
overcome it or somebody says something
that challenges what's been programmed
up here that's the wake-up call
and that's when you realize oh wait a
minute
all of this [ __ ] that I just naturally
believe like for example I didn't have I
did like you know I didn't choose to
speak English
that's what was spoken in my house so I
absorbed it if you grew up with a
hypercritical parent or a narcissistic
leaning parent you probably absorbed
certain things from them that you don't
want now that you're an adult I don't
even say probably that's a guarantee yes
and so I just wanted to be very clear
because one of the things that prevents
people
from changing their lives is when you
said the thing about what's missing I
was going to say hope
because without hope
that things could change or that this
new action or thought matters you won't
do it
and so if you have this moment where you
immediately get this wake-up call that
maybe I don't have to be miserable maybe
I don't have to criticize myself maybe I
don't have to live with anxiety for the
rest of my life maybe I could be the
first one to go to college maybe I could
like live as an openly gay or trans
person even if my family rejects me like
there's that wake-up call moment that is
critical but now what you're up against
is completely learning how to reprogram
all that default [ __ ] that somebody else
put there and that's the work that
you're up to that's the work that I'm
doing for myself and I did it at a
certain level
uh up until the last two years like I've
been shipping away at this [ __ ] at all
different kinds of levels and I think
the more self-aware you become
and the more successful that you become
and achieving goals or taking away a lot
of the stressors that you know are no
joke like paying your bills
the deeper the opportunity to attack the
deeper shed which is what I've been
working on
yeah when you go on that Journey it is
profoundly transformational it's
incredible
where can people follow you Mel where
can they see the podcast or hear the
podcast uh so just at Mel Robbins that's
it melrobbins.com the podcast is
everywhere
um and uh I just I'm so excited Tom
um the support is just overwhelming the
YouTube version of the podcast is uncut
it's behind the scenes we're gonna put
up all shitty awful First episodes that
we filmed anyways because why the hell
not
and the audio experience is slightly
different but I'm really excited I I I
sit here and I go wow I can't wait to
have you on my show whenever you are and
I also uh can't even imagine how
different both of our lives are going to
look and feel in five years
incredible yeah because that's when I
first met you five years ago it's insane
I love it thanks for being my friend
thanks for being mine and thanks for
coming back on and everybody at home if
you haven't already be sure to subscribe
and until next time my friends be
legendary take care peace
if you want more high performance
content be sure to check out this
episode with Brendan burchard you know
if the task fails you shouldn't take
that as as a defining moment in which
you say I am a failure
right so that's the risk and that's what
you know psychologists tell us to be
wary of