Kind: captions
Language: en
your oral microbiome is directly
connected to your heart disease is
connected to your diabetes is connected
to neurodegenerative diseases especially
Alzheimer's we as Humanity will wipe out
the cancer from the human body
Gene Jane welcome back to the show but
first of all this is one of the few
places I come back and just have such
great memories dude it's a lot of fun
anytime that we get to spend time
together especially I'm so obsessed with
the same thing that you're obsessed with
which is the microbiome and I want to
ask of the healthy foods that people
think are making their life better what
should people actually be avoiding what
this interesting thing is there's no
such thing as universal healthy food so
this thing is universally good yeah what
about universally bad so universally bad
is absolutely true so for example sugar
is just bad for everyone it is no one
who would say because it's refined or
like in a natural state would we yeah
Natural State it is much better but
especially in the process State and
there are many reasons obviously is
starting from the top of the tube your
digestive tube in your mouth every time
you eat something that has processed
sugar or even sugar your oral microbes
actually use that to produce lactic acid
that changes the pH of your oral
microbiome and now as we are learning
similar to like you and I were obsessed
about gut microbiome in the last two
years what we're learning is your oral
microbiome is directly connected to your
heart disease is connected to your
diabetes is connected to
neurodegenerative diseases especially
actually Alzheimer really fast and I do
want to get into the actual foods that
people need to be avoiding other than
sugar but give us a quick primer on the
enteric nervous system so I've heard you
say that we're a donut with a tube
through it that's right which I think
will hit people very strangely but what
is the enteric digestive tract okay so
your digestive tract as you can imagine
it starts from the top of the tube in
your mouth so that's where you start the
things and I don't know about you my mom
used to always see
you know eat slowly chew your food and I
always wondered why is she worried that
some other food is going to get stuck in
my throat well it turns out she must
have been a scientist because when you
chew your food and eat slowly your
microbes in your mouth the oral
microbiome is starting to pre-digest the
food so the nutrition can be absorbed in
your digestive tract so there's
signaling going on between the oral
microbiome and the microbiome in your
gut but more than just a signaling first
of all the microbiome itself is
pre-digesting the food and it's sending
the signal to the body the different
organs through the vagus nerve through
the metabolites that it releases right
so you're saying that as I'm chewing I'm
breaking down the food into metabolites
that's right those metabolites are
beating the food to the digestive tract
the microbiome poops out the metabolizes
which is microbiome they do it that fast
as I chew I'm already sending already
single to pancreas so every time you you
eat food and it's sweet it sends a
signal to pancreas hey the sweet stuff
is coming the sugar is coming start
releasing the insulin and when you eat
artificial sweetener guess what happens
the insulin is all there but the insulin
has nothing to do because there is no
glucose to process and now the people
who eat diet step diet soda diet stuff
thinking they're doing good and now they
become insulin resistant Nick they end
up getting diabetes because they're
taking a lot of the artificial sweetness
I want to get back to that because
anecdotally is the only thing I can
speak to that didn't seem to be my
experience but but set that aside so I'm
chewing something I'm sending a a
metabolite based signal to my digestive
so I'm pre-digesting it and sending the
sending a metabolite based signal down
to the gut gut and the rest of the body
remember the blood carries the stuff
that metabolites are absorbed by the
blood so as soon as they're absorbed
it's sending the signal to the whole
body okay now
in addition to that your gut is also
sending the signal through the vagus
nerve to the whole body right so if you
look at the v as humans we are really a
super organism we're 99 of all the genes
that are expressed in our body are not
our own they don't come from our mom and
dad they actually come from these
microbes that are in our mouth in our
gut in our eyes on our scalp on our skin
and literally everywhere and these
microbes and us are in symbiotic
relationship and when that relationship
gets broken is when your body is never
at ease and we call that dis-ease is
disease Okay so
when it do I have a microbiome in my
stomach that's right of course your
microbiome is all over your digest track
especially the 95 of that is in your gut
or quality well yeah so the gut I know I
wasn't sure if in the acidic level of
the stomach we also have a microbiome so
these up in the small intestine there is
microbiome okay and then there's
literally it's all through the Trap and
obviously stomach has very high acid but
a lot of the people who take are these
proton pump inhibitors like Nexium
that now allows all the oral microbiome
is swallowing give or take about one and
a half liter of saliva every day and now
they're saliva when it goes to the
stomach and there is no acid because
you're taking proton pump inhibitors now
all those microbes are going to the gut
which they don't belong and some of the
stuff at least the research shows the
fusobacterium nucleatum which is
actually oral microbiome is number one
culprit for things like colon cancer the
number one culture for colon cancer
starts in the mouth that is shocking to
say the least okay we're going to get to
cancer later
okay so I wanted that quick primer
you've got all these microbes they start
in your mouth you have a tube that runs
from your mouth through your stomach
down into the small intestine large
intestine colon yeah
we have a an ability to break those
nutrients down through the digestive
process the microbes also as you said
poop out metabolites that we then absorb
into the body so we actually want these
things yes
why is it going back to the foods that
we shouldn't be eating so we have sugar
as a universal but there's probably
caveats on that but are there other
things that are universally problematic
anything that's a processed food in
general that's not something that human
body was designed to because the ratio
is wrong because the chemical substrate
gets altered like what is the problem so
for example like when you eat wheat
right it has a lot of fiber in it and
now if you remove everything all you're
really getting is the process part right
which is just the part that normally
would be in addition if you had with
mixed with fiber would be easy to digest
and probably would be I think wheat
might be the perfect
case study to break this down so I have
a feeling as we talk that we're going to
find that there's a lot of things that
have happened that create the modern
disease that's right let me use wheat
and tell me where I go wrong so one we
have to start with the soil yes so we've
been doing Monograms
um fertilizers and pesticides and
pesticides so we're destroying the soil
yes the microbiome of the soil just to
be very clear right the bacteria the
viruses the phages yes we should talk
about phages I did some research on that
absolutely in anticipation of this we're
creating a problem at the soil level
we're also genetically engineering the
wheat to be higher yield to be more
resistant to parasites to be able to
handle a larger dosage of pesticides so
on and so forth and for whatever reason
gluten at least in the US and other
countries that use similar farming
techniques have now become really
problematic for a lot of people because
they break the epithelial lining for
people keeping score at home in the gut
which allows direct permeability between
what should be a tube allows actual
proteins to make their way into the
bloodstream oh by the bacteria into the
bloodstream so what's the bigger problem
what's I've always thought it was the
protein because with gluten in
particular gluten looks like a piece of
the hypothalamus if I remember correct a
part of the brain anyway there's a
protein made in a part of the brain that
looks exactly like the protein in gluten
and that's part of why people get quote
unquote brain fog it's not as simple
right so in some sense there are some
people who may actually have a Celiac
disease right there the gluten does
havoc to them right in general if you
think about gluten they're about 1.4
billion people that live in India right
they all eat gluten so it's not that
gluten is good or bad there are a couple
of problems how it is is grown and also
how your microbes actually metabolize
that right so if you let's step back for
a second and just let's look at the
human body and then we'll come back to
specific because I think we deck too
deep too fast so let's back up for a
second and let's start and say we as
humans co-evolve together with these
microorganisms right so as I was saying
that you one could argue that even
within ourselves we have these
organelles which are really like
cytoplasm you look at the things like
mitochondria so mitochondria has its own
DNA which is separate from our human DNA
which is separate from the microbes that
we are talking about it's in fact our
human cells are multi-organism you would
argue that in ancient cell these were
different organisms that actually all
got captured inside the same same cell
so we are really symbiotically made
there and then we looking at the
complete or you know as super organism
we're consisting of 99 of all that genes
that are coming from all the
microorganisms we've talked about right
70 percent of our immune system is along
our gut lining are microbes and our
human human immune system is constantly
interacting with each other in fact so
much so when the baby is born our
microbiome is constantly teaching or
teaching the immune system what's a
friend what's that for the fact is why
is it there are so many trillions of
these bacteria can live inside us and
our immune system is not killing them
why is that because if they think they
are foreign substance you will have a
constant inflammation the constant
bombardment of the things trying to kill
them what's happening is as the baby is
born these organisms are starting to
tell immune system we are part of self
don't need to get paranoid we are all
working together and then we together
will detach when there is an attack on
us the pathogen that's coming from
outside and then we can actually work
together in fact when the baby is born
the first few days I think we talked
about last time the first few days of
mother's milk contains oligosaccharide
which is literally is a fiber the
oligosaccharides cannot be digested by
the human body it can only be digested
or fermented by the microbes in your gut
and that through that the microbes are
releasing butyrate which are actually
the short chain fatty acids there are
anti-inflammatory so imagine what nature
is saying nature is saying we just
created this office spring to keep this
office being healthy and growing
we shouldn't be necessarily feeding it
you need to be feeding them to make sure
that we are all together
and then as you start to look at the
first exposure to the microbiome it
starts in the birth canal so when the
baby is being born is baited with the
birth canal so vaginal microbiome and
that's really the first exposure you
start to get and then as we start to
grow you could have identical twins you
still have different diseases in
different points right and we'll come
back to it in terms of why the DNA that
people say your genes are your destiny
why that is completely wrong right but
we'll get to it in a second here so
coming back to the human primer we
really are a super organism that are
symbiotically working together when the
relationship gets broken and we're not
feeding these microbes what they need to
survive they start to scrounge around
and they're starting to now do different
things their behavior completely changes
so it's not the organism change there
what functions they perform is
constantly changing right so same
organism can produce something good in
one person one environment your gut
environment and the same organism in my
toxic environment could produce
something totally different to survive
right so what happens is people take
these probiotics like acromancia is a
great example A lot of people take a
commencia thinking is good for you that
is the number one organism if you Google
Ackerman CI and Ms that's the number one
organism that's directly connected to
causing Ms so why is it in some
environment acremancia produces good
stuff like that do we know what
environment is positive and what's
negative yeah and it's actually so when
when you have the inflammation in the
gut lining Remember economancia's full
name is acromancia mucinophila said
remember I had no idea yeah but uh yeah
so lover of Museum really okay
lover of music
so it really lives in your Museum and
when you are essentially have high
inflammation or you'll assist him go on
a long a long diet that you're not
eating food you're going to three day
fasting it starts to eat your music
right and now you all the barrier that
we had created is gone your gut lining
can get permeable so your gut lining
gets permeable because there is
inflammation what causes inflammation
your microbes are producing things like
lipopal lipopolysaccharide LPS high
amount of protein fermentation causing
uh producing ammonia or high amount of
food that's producing a lot of sulfide a
lot of pleasure assembly a lot of the
stuff that's going on that's highly
toxic that causes the inflammation in
the gut that breaks the boundary that
breaks the intestinal barrier to be
permeable and then not only the food
starts to go the bacteria start and the
viruses start to now translocate into
the blood causing a systemic
inflammation and by the way same thing
happens in your mouth when you have a
bleeding gums or leaky gums just like a
leaky gut you have leaky gums guess what
when it's bleeding all the microbes from
your mouth are going into the blood
causing the same systemic inflammation
and that's what causes the systemic
diseases in different organs
okay so now that we have that set up
let's go back to wheat so there's a lot
of things that have happened in modern
context that alter the way that we
respond to wheat
what is the bigger problem is and look I
get that this stuff is also intertwined
but
you hear a lot about well if you eat
bread in Europe you're not going to have
the same negative inflammatory response
you're going to have if you eat it here
so is the bigger problem that a modern
diet is changing the makeup of your
microbiome or is it that we've altered
the food substances themselves that even
if you were eating the same thing that
your you know ancestors ate long long
ago that you'd still have a problem
because of what we've done to the soil
genetic engineering you know all that
stuff
I suspect it is part of both in fact
even the people who go to Europe and eat
the pizza in Italy and they say come
back and say I have no problem with that
right so it is in that case it's really
how we produce wheat in our country
versus we produce wheat there it's much
more organically produced wheat right
the second part is are depending on if
you're eating lot of processed food our
gut microbes are actually no longer
friendly to our environment in that case
it is also in addition to the food we
eat that's how it is grown it is also
our microbes have completely changed are
no longer able to digest the food they
should have been able to do is it that
they can't digest the food or is it that
the makeup of my microbiome did so you
talked about acromancia there's God
knows how many thousands of different
species so is it that I have the wrong
makeup of the species or is it that what
I am feeding them is breaking them
because I mean you've talked about this
I can put a microbe in the ocean to eat
oil yes so if there's a microbe to
metabolize basically everything is it
really the problem with the the the
actual bacteria or is it that I've
gotten the bad bacteria to over
proliferate in my gut you have to have
the right set of oil there's not like
one single organism they could be tens
of thousands of different organisms that
can actually metabolize that food right
so one is part of having it other thing
is the environment it finds itself in so
there are lots and lots of bad stuff and
it's crowding out the good stuff when
the food comes in they may not even get
a shot at it right so in a sense the
things that could have been digested if
there was a better balance is no longer
anything in this environment it is
really interesting is not only we are
feeding them they are feeding each other
right so it is one set of organism can
take the food actually poop out or
metabolites that can can be metabolized
by some other organism and then it
produces something else so in an
environment whether it is really good I
mean it's actually not complicated look
at Amazon forest right if you look at
Amazon any type of rainforest every step
you take has a completely different
makeup yet the whole place is lash and
green that means you can have a nice
Lush and green environment they don't
have to be identical
they can be very disagree but that still
it feels like given the second and third
order consequences that this gets
complicated really fast and given what
I've been through release I know how
hard it has been at least historically
to fix
now maybe we're getting more inside
closer so what happened was what are you
what are we using to get closer is it AI
is it AI chomping through massive data
what's the big breakthrough so the big
breakthrough is actually analyzing the
body as a whole so let me just give you
an example of what we did seven years
ago we simply analyzed your gut
microbiome and time to figure out what
was there well who is there and what
they were doing right so remember before
us everybody including to date every
other microbiome company focuses on who
is there we change that and say we're
going to focus on not just who is there
but what they are actually producing
what are they expressing what are they
metabolizing right and then we see oh my
God that's look at what they're doing is
it good or bad and can we use the food
to say change that their behavior right
so that was first part and then we
realize and say videos said that's only
a small picture we don't know when these
things gets absorbed in the blood how
does a human host is reacting to it so
two and a half years ago we say wait I
said this is not going to give us
everything we need we're going to now
analyze both your gut and the finger
prick blood to know all of your
inflammatory biomarkers so what do we do
when you get a fingerprint blood we're
looking at all the human host gene
expression from your mitochondrial Gene
what are you referring inferring from
that the way that the body is responding
so
so walk me through could I have good
metabolites but a bad reaction so what
we're imagining is what is happening in
your immune system so when we do a
fingerprint blood the truth is at that
point you have red blood cells and you
have white blood cells right that blood
cells have no nucleus you end up really
analyzing the white blood cells that
means you're looking at all of the
inflammatory markers all the cytokines
right so you know interleukin one
interleukin and you're saying though
that you could look at the metabolites
and not be able to predict my reaction
to those metabolites so what we do is
we're looking at your metal you're
looking at what your microbes are
producing now we're looking at all the
inflammatory markers and are looking at
all the mitochondrial gene expression
right so now we're looking at what
mitochondria is producing what your
immune system is producing right what's
in the blood and then we're saying we
just said this is what we see happening
in the gut this is what we see the human
who's responding to it that's n of one
and then we start to look at n of C
hundred thousand in our case n of 500
000 right now we have lots of data to
see every time we see this this is
what's happening on N of one you cannot
make that conclusion because they could
be completely inconclusive if I'm
understanding this right it makes the
following prediction that eventually
you'll have looked at a data set large
enough that you'll be able to know from
the metabolites how they'll respond or
would you need to know my DNA and the
metabolite no so this is this is not not
we're looking at all of the immune
system how your immune system is
reacting yeah but what I'm trying to
figure out is it will immune systems
react to a metabolite in a predictable
fashion yes okay so you could then
eventually get a data set so basically
yeah and that was the first so this is
what we did three months ago we still
wait a sec we are still missing the
another part as we talked about the top
of the tube so we say we said what
happening here is also impacting the
human host so why not analyze
saliva to look at Oral microbial
activities and the human gene expression
in your saliva look at both the gut
microbial activity and the human gene
expression from the sh from the
epithelial cells shedding and then look
at the fingerprint block to understand
all the human gene expression and take
all this data together and can you start
making more sense out of it than just
one two or three samples right and now
that we have analyzed so many samples we
are able to in fact predict and give you
the score where you stand for example
when you do this test of full body
intelligence we analyze your saliva your
stool and a fingerprint blood and then
we give you your biological age the
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description alright my friend back to
today's episode before we add a
confounding variable of biological age I
want to make sure that I'm understanding
what you guys are looking for well so
we've got
there there's an impossible amount of
complexity here yes so are there really
billions of species of bacteria so there
are billions of species but in terms of
the number of Pathways or number of
metabolites are much more finite okay
usable thing is what metabolite is being
kicked off so I'm not worried so much
about what bacteria you have but I worry
a lot about what metabolites are being
produced right okay that's super helpful
right so now how many metabolites are we
talking about 10 000.
thousands okay but not tens of them okay
so we've got thousands of metabolites
that are being kicked off yes now those
thousands of metabolites
will you've already answered yes to this
but I have a feeling that I'm not fully
understanding what you're saying will
those metabolites impact everybody's
um epigenetic expression the same way or
will those metabolites be good or bad
based on my current epigenetic
expression then you see genetic versus
epigenetic I want to be very sure so
answer is yes because epigenetics is
changing your expression yeah that's why
I want to stick to epigenetics the
actual expression in this moment so
actual expression in this movement is
what really matters your DNA which is
your original genes not don't matter as
much right and the reason I don't say
don't matter as much is remember the
same alphabet can produce lot of
different things like in our body every
single part of our body from hair to
everything is produced by the identical
DNA right but we can make an eye out of
it we can make a nail out of it we can
make a hair out of it right so let's
focus what is epigenetic text let me
just Define clearly so your genes are
there which I think more you and I even
though we look so different and you're
10 times smarter than I am with the same
almost 99.8 same DNA what really matters
is in terms of tiny difference but how
epigenetically the things are being
expressed right so epigenetic means Epi
means over genetics right so in a sense
in your genes you could have methylation
which slows down the expression of that
particular gene or acetylation that
actually increases the expression of
that Gene just by changing the
expression of certain genes and under
expression of certain genes the same DNA
can produce my hair or it can become
eyes skin lung kidney heart whatever it
is right now once it is expressed it is
called RNA so you have DNA then you have
epigenetic then you have RNA right so
RNA tells you what is being expressed
and we are analyzing your RNA
specifically mRNA and the non-coding RNA
right can I ask you a question about RNA
and DNA so I was looking this up yeah I
don't understand RNA well yet so is the
process I know I'm oversimplifying it
but if this is directionally correct
that'll really help me understand yeah
so is RNA red so you're reading the DNA
yes and the reader is asking what is
currently being expressed of these genes
and then it Crea because RNA looks
exactly like DNA but half
so like it's been at least as it's shown
on YouTube it looks exactly like DNA but
cut in half and what does acgu instead
of ACG yeah so right and what is really
happening is it's control epigenetics
what is it okay
because it is made it unzips the DNA yes
it looks like a top and a bottom so
you're looking at the codons right so
you know you look at codons codons like
every three there is a start and and
there is a quota right so that literally
tells you take this stuff and express it
right so depending on what control
signals are there which is methylation
or acetylation it says make more of the
script or make less of these scripts
right make more and less or make don't
make what is make more or less really
yeah so it's still going to make some
yep interesting yes it's not like
methylation doesn't stop completely if
you're highly methylated it'll
completely stop it right but a slight
methylation will still produce it's not
like yes no it's not just on off I
thought it was on off no no it's
actually more like a dimmer okay right
very interesting and so having that
dimmer is what allows you to have much
more possibilities
right so that's the reason when you have
methylation clock it's not like oh my
God is this on or off it's a methylation
clock allows you to see how much of it
is on or how much of it's off how much
is dimmed and how much
so then I hate derailing us from because
I still don't understand RNA yeah but
yeah so the Horvath clock yes which is
checking methylation that's biological
checking the dimmer yes not on off yes
so are you looking for dimmer amount on
certain genes that's what they're doing
all genes so we look at everything so
we're not even looking at the dimmer we
are looking at post dimmer what is being
expressed
right so we don't need well I'm talking
about sorry one step at a time but just
the Horvath clock because you mentioned
your biological age yeah so I'm going to
come there in a second here so the way
we measure biological age is very
different then yeah density uh the
methylation clock the hormones really oh
you guys have a totally different way so
here's how we do it right because there
they're looking at one single source of
Truth which is how much your human genes
are methylated or not methylated just
human genes and the ignoring the 99 of
the other stuff which is on whole
microbiome right in your mouth in your
gut everywhere
completely ignoring it now right so what
we do is very different so when we say
this term is your biological age what we
do is we say look we have now collected
600 trillion nucleotides
600 trillion nucleotides from over I
really wish I knew what a nucleotide was
so RNA basically cgt base okay right so
each base pair is a nucleotides right so
once we have those base pairs now we are
saying is okay they're coming from these
half a million people half a million
samples right now we say okay
everyone we know what their biomarker
looks like so we create let's assume
some type of a algorithm that says this
is Tom's biomarker based on his saliva
blood and stool
and then now we have created the
biomarkers for every single age so
people who are 18 years old 19 years old
20 years or 21 and now we have whole
number of biomarkers for every single
age so we snapshot of what all the
nucleotides look like if you're 63 if
you're 50 if you're 47 exactly 21. now
you come along and we say oh we just
analyzed all your biomarkers you look
like just like this guy wow that's
really interesting if nucleotides
actually matter for anything what point
is this convince me that they do because
I know nothing basically so look at them
saying this is your all the genes that
are expressing your body they're letter
pairs but we're not looking just so
we're looking at letter pairs of the RNA
RNA okay so we're back to you you're
gonna have to help my slow Minds grasp
here's let me try to explain it and then
tell me where my understanding breaks
you're going to be tempted to just go
back to zero no no no tell me where my
understanding breaks offered use to
create RNA yes you begin with a strand
of DNA that's correct then there is a
thing I don't know what that thing is
yes there's a thing that cuts it yes
literally separates like a zipper top
and bottom of the deleting it actually
just keep going sorry say it again it's
reading it reading it but it's
separating them yes well except the
separation part happened actually it's
called four yeah so it's basically
creates an RNA from a single strand
creates two rnas single strength so
that's what is it true yes the top and
the bottom well it's these water is it
is because it's like it's oh God this is
where at the edge of my understanding
it's like uh what did they call it Prime
five yes and Prime three yeah so they
will go backwards so they go back this
way and this way okay yeah so I got yeah
only sort of understand this but it is
unzipping them yes so now I have the two
harness pairs but they are separated yes
and now those are RNA no so they are
actually just a single stranded DNA
still yeah right the RNA gets created
when they start reading it and you say
all right this is one this is one this
what so like you see this is beginning
and end this is one nucleotide one not
nucleotide it would say one codon one
codon okay and this basically starts
saying now this makes one
protein or one metabolites right so
literally start producing among amino
acids so remember every one of them
produces every codon produces an amino
amino acids right so some number of
codons will produce some so when I'm
Gene when when I am making the RNA
whatever I am yes I am reading the DNA
yes which is methylated so I know what's
active and not active dimmer switch
so when do I remove things because I'm
like this codon is not active so this is
no so they only when it's reading now
see this is too deep a sign so I am not
I can imagine if you don't understand
fine I'm perfectly happy to get to the
edge of your understanding all right
this is now this is where our chief
science officer
don't give me the things from my
understanding again I'm not a scientist
here right is to say okay these set of
codons will produce this amino acids and
now we essentially are able to the way
we do is we look at all the
so your clock says this amino acid
profile or these looks like this for
this age looks like so we don't look at
amino acid we're looking at but you're
looking at the things that create the
amino acid that's correct and since the
only thing that matters is what they
create by proxy by process at least we
are looking at the amino acid but what
we're doing is really looking at the
transcripts of everything so we're
looking at every transcript we call them
mRNA transcripts right so we're looking
at all these but transcription is just
turning DNA into transcripts with
transcription is turning DNA into on it
and what's turned is transcript the
transcripts are they what grab the amino
acids
yes they make the amino acids okay so so
this is my understanding stops here so
these are the transcripts we are reading
then we basically look at the network
graph if these transcripts are over
expressed these transcripts are under
expressed what metabolite is going to be
produced based on these transcripts
right what would Steve Horvath say why
his method is better but if you had to
be super generous and steel man has
already no so I would simply say is look
there is no ground truth so in a sense
when someone says this is better or
worse or same or not is what are we
comparing against
so in a sense like we all know what a
chronological age is hopefully we all do
right the biological age is a concept we
all can determine but no one can see
this is the ground truth but the reason
you think yours is better is it's more
holistic it's more holistic and it has
lots more people so whole earth clock is
based on thousands of people this is
based on hundreds of thousands of people
and I'm not even suggesting that when
it's a better better compared to what
right you can relatively how do you know
who is active there is no ground throat
to saying the whole lives longer but
that'll ultimately be it look it's gonna
take time I get it but let's assume even
is to live longer live longer than what
somebody like if the Horvath clock says
oh you're 20 years younger take an
Actuarial Table yeah so you're supposed
to live to 78 looking at a statistical
average so it's again you're back give
me something but if your Horvath clock
tells me that I'm 20 years younger and
then I lived 20 years past the
statistical age we'll call that pretty
good no but not really I would say it
would be what are you using then if you
think my logic is flawed what do you use
so if something the logic of all of us
are essentially saying it hey we know
are you relatively younger or older than
your chronology yeah but I'm ultimately
all I care about is if the Horvath clock
tells me to eat more onions and you tell
me to eat less onions then I need to
know who's right who's right and that
point what our part I'm trying to make
is that from our perspective we look at
the stuff and saying okay let's assume
we were supposed to Live 105 yeah right
and let's assume you're 20 years younger
and you die at 95. yeah have you lived
your full life or you become your
biological classes all or you actually
were supposed to only live to be 95
right so pointy just because you were 20
years younger but died at 95.
but you couldn't get 205 that means
biological cops are going to do a really
complex problem but let's solve it so
what you're thinking through just to say
it in other words is we don't know what
the human life expectancy is in general
and forget the generalities what is your
max potential we don't know that so the
Horvath clock or any biological clock is
simply giving you how much under your
biological age you are but I have no
idea how long and that's that is what
I'm trying to say is it's basically
statistically we are saying you're
you're similar to the person who is of
this age looking at very large
population and it doesn't mean from a
functional standpoint from functional
perspective okay that is what so you
perform like somebody of this age but
who the hell knows how long you're going
to live that's right do you think that's
going to be a totally different clock so
if poorvath and your clock can we give
your clock a name is it the volume clock
biological clock all right Divine
biological clock
um if that is telling us performance yes
do you think there will be a totally
different clock that's going to tell us
uh average human expectancy times x so
1.1 1.2 like because that's the clock I
care about that's and and the point you
have is to the different companies are
looking at very different things so for
example the inflammation clock right so
the people say hey all it matters to you
is how well your immune system is acting
because that's what determines how old
you are so meaning the clock seems like
a weird choice of words there Gage well
they call that information for
inflammation clock I agree that's a
weird it's a weird name but it's
basically score is it a clock or is this
a gauge it's in school right call it
it's gauge school okay so your
inflammation is core in their mind is
the only thing that matters because that
determines how long you want to live
because end of the day if your body is
highly inflamed
to some extent inflammation chronic
inflammation is bad right no doubt about
it but that's not alone some people say
the only thing that matters your
cognitive health so if I can figure out
your cognitive Health score that's your
biological clock yeah some people say
well it's your heart health if I can
figure out how well your heart is
working that's your biological plot some
people say well what matters is how well
you breathe so I'm going to look at your
lung clock and tell you if that is what
it is that's how I'm going to tell you
how old you're going to do it and it
probably will break out to those things
if your brain health isn't there do you
really care if your heart gives out do
you care that you're a better life
but this stuff directionally is very
interesting
at least today your saliva your stool
your blood and looking at those three
samples rather than just one sample
trying to get as close to the holistic
bio age as possible well let's abstract
it back out what is your what's the
thing that you Naveen Jane really care
about is I care about function and
duration so I care about not just one
thing so what we do is we say okay
you do this test I'm going to give you
your biological age that's one signal
not the only signal we give you your
immune Health score to now you're saying
hey look at your immune health is doing
good but not as good there is what do
you guys look at on that immune looking
at overreaction under reaction but no
actually looking at all of your
cytokines right so remember the immune
system is consist of all these
interleukins all these cytokines so
we're looking at the things that are
anti-inflammatory how are they being
expressed the things that are over
inflammatory how are they being in uh
Express so the more inflammatory signal
we are getting
that means higher the inflammation it is
in your body right so we're looking at
all of that stuff then we look at things
like your heart health you guys are
looking at inflammation already yeah so
it's called immune Health score in the
blood in the blood when you actually
count
we'll be talking to all the interleukins
and transcripts how many of them there
are is it just how many I just don't
know that's interesting we're looking at
hunts this we know we get about
10 000 different types of scripts in the
blood
all right so we're looking at all those
scripts and then we are also there is
scripts what do you mean transcripts
and now we're looking at your for
example cognitive Health score so the
separate score is called brain and
cognitive housing score either of the
blood or do you have people take it the
school blood and saliva but those three
tell you cognitive performance so we're
looking at approximation as much as we
get by looking at your Gaba production
your serotonin production so we're
looking at all the things that we know
today affect your cognitive performance
right so it's a proxy for a cognitive
health so say hey what is your vitamin D
level what's your Gaba production what's
your serotonin production and we see
over here are 10 other things that
improve or decline your cognitive
performance we're looking at proxy of
those right similarly we are looking at
the things on this heart health what are
the things that signal whether your
heart health is good or bad so we are
looking at the things that would cause
the heart health to be poor
such as your LDL production right so
we're looking at all the different
things that will produce the thing that
will in proxy Define your heart health
right similarly we're looking at the
things that would define your gut health
so we're not looking the things that
different parts of your body and these
are all different signals including your
biological age but we're saying is look
this is our approximation of where you
are relative to all the people we have
analyzed so you really may be 63 for
example me but I'm biologically fall as
if I'm 50 that means my biomarkers match
with other people who are 50 and that
changes so if I do a test a year from
now and if I'm not really taking care of
my health that may move up to 55 how far
do you think you can push that can you
be 95 and perform like you're 50. you
know
time will tell we have seen people what
20-25 years younger in their biological
age and chronological age right do you
know who Brian Johnson is I know of him
yes he's coming back on the show I think
so he claims God I don't want to put
words in his mouth that he's got the
biggest gap between or no sorry the
biggest reversal of age in the shortest
amount of time I think that's accurate
if you don't know what he measured
himself against him again you know in
some sense there is really no good I
mean there's no ground truth I mean how
do you measure you're proud of the fact
that you're 63 and measure out of it but
that's based on our measures right and
what I'm saying is that I my biomarkers
are similar to other people who are age
50 whatever that means so let's say that
that's the gold standard yeah if that
was a golden standard that means my
physical performance and mental
performance
is similar to the people
who are 50 years old but doesn't mean
I'm 50 years old I'm still 63. yeah but
I'm trying to figure that I get but
assuming that you kept those buyer I I
what I want to know very succinctly do
you think and I know you're guessing do
you think that we can hold our biomarker
static even as our physical age
I have seen it in the last
two and a half three years we've been
measuring the biological age I've done
lost six tests and then I know when I
actually go off Off Script eating the
stuff that I shouldn't be eating and I
literally go on a vacation eating all
kinds of junk and when I do a test my
biological age moved up now how fast can
you move it up and down I have not
tested I mean four to six months even I
test and I've seen that a quite a bit
difference like five seven year
difference whoa yeah is this like
um A1C where I can check like the your
last few months you have on average been
a 55 year old so if I look at my
biological age or look by the way so we
show you the longitudinal data of as you
test so I can see here with my gut
health here's what happened and as I'm
doing this I've done like 10 or 12 tests
where am I going so is it getting better
it's getting worse so every single thing
you can start to measure for yourself
because you know the ground truth I have
you behaving yourself or you're not we
don't know that right
okay this is really interesting so I
check my glucose I I wear I don't know
maybe four months out of the year I wear
a continuous glucose monitor amazing I
love doing it but we built that into the
system already as AI tell me more so
what we did is we actually put a CGM are
you partnered with somebody or you guys
make your own so what we did we don't
have to partner anymore how do you get
the glucose data
so we basically built the AI model so
what we did is we took 11 I'm just hold
it for a second 1100 people
put a continuous glucose monitor fed
them 70 000 different types of food and
then looked at the microbial activity
yeah and said if we see this being
produced by microbes because we know
that's going to change the glucose
response can we build a AI that will
predict which is what your continuous
glucose monitor is showing can we
predict by looking at the gut microbial
activity and we published that paper
with 87 accuracy over what period of
time the glucose changes so rapidly well
it no it only changes from what foods
you eat it's not unpredictable so if you
have my glucose will fluctuate by 70
points within an hour no no but for now
see for the same food
yes what do you mean seven no no no no
let's say I eat a bowl of ice cream it's
going to spike hard and then two hours
later it's back to normal so we're
looking at a post-parent deal exactly
what it spikes to me and now you eat ice
cream again tomorrow yes would it Spike
the same or would it be different
definitively not the same same if we had
no other food just that correct that
come on no no no you know better than
that no no so what we do is actually the
difference in the intrinsically is about
13 or so I don't know what you mean by
that so basically so here's here's what
I'm saying if I exercise my ass off yes
and then eat ice cream it'll be very
different than if I don't absolutely
exercise and I eat ice cream that's a
huge difference if I don't sleep well
that so if I sleep well exercise eat ice
cream very different then don't sleep
well don't exercise it is completely
agree with you so why are you telling
some in the metabolites of my oh no so
what we're doing is we're saying is he
we took 1100 people right and we say
keep doing what you're doing so don't go
out and change your behavior
no but pointy and we bought the food for
them so we didn't say that hey go eat
what you you say here is a food for you
to eat okay right don't change your
habits so don't go work out four hours
today and then tomorrow you don't right
right so we were trying to essentially
normalize this stuff right I get it so
maybe I'm misunderstanding what you guys
are trying to do so basically what we
were able to do was now we can predict
based on your gut microbial activity I'm
going to come back from the oral side in
a second yeah based on that we were able
to predict that when you eat carrot
you're gonna have higher glucose
response what's it say for banana or for
example or uh are you just trying to
come up with a
um like a glucose response per food per
food okay yes not on any individual
actually for each individual for each
individual okay so it's it's n of one
and of one
it's okay so I have to run through this
same battery of foods to get my own no
no so what we do is now that we built
the model we can see based on now that
we so remember reverse so we see this is
what's happening in your gut microbial
activity
if you were to eat carrot we know what
is going to do
right so we know this question what to
do okay so what I what my metabolites I
kick off what meta blacks you kick off
so we know this is your code so if you
don't know how my body is going to
respond right because there's so many
variables so let's so here's what we're
saying those variables change what you
metabolize what your microbial
activities are so you know when you
exercise a lot your microbial activity
changes yep so we have now seen that
when people exercise their gut microbial
activity changes right so we know now
based on the gut microbial activity
think of this your code that's a
self-modifiable code if we know what
this code is going to do
we can see if this input happens what
the output will be okay right so we know
this is we can analyze this this is
constants whether it's a carrot or
almonds or so let me see if I understand
this correctly if I give you my
microbial output yes you can tell me a
banana is going to affect you this way
this way
very interesting now where do you guys
see that going so what happens to now so
here so now we are able to predict to
say he don't eat banana but it's okay
for you to eat almonds or don't eat
almonds which are going to cause more
Spike than you normally normally people
say almonds should not be high glycemic
response we can say for you Tom almonds
are really high glucose response don't
eat almonds but you can eat banana okay
so having listened to as many interviews
with you as I have I know that your that
this stuff changes very rapidly and that
one day you're predicting that the
toilet will just give you this
information so you will make a deposit
and then the toilet is going to be like
hey eat almonds today after 3 P.M but
make sure that you do your normal 75
push-ups uh well but we don't really so
in a sense as long as we know what they
are expressing because all these things
you do whether it's exercise or sleep
all of those are changing the what
you're expressing so the reason you feel
bad or feel good is something is being
expressed differently how rapidly does
it change glucose is by the mineral so
glucose is not by the minute if you no
no no no no no so let's assume you don't
agree with that no so I'm just for not
for the same food if you don't change
anything else right understand so my
point is no so let's assume you don't
eat you today right now
if you say okay
I have no I eat the same oatmeal
four hours later and I have not done any
workout or I have I normally do 30
minutes of workout after I do variables
held today including in metabolite
production metabolic production we can
measure so you don't need so we say Hey
you work out we know what the what they
are doing because that's the code we can
analyze yeah right now once we know what
they're going to do we see this input
you give us we can tell you what the
output is going to be right and that is
our glycemic response model what we did
very recently is we said hey can we how
much of information can we just get from
one input like saliva because we were
thinking that this requires you to do
three things split in a tube Touch of a
stool and a finger prick of your blood
and we're thinking can we get 60 70 of
the information just with your saliva so
we said okay now that we have
000 people that have given us all three
samples
right and now we are able to actually
understand what is the ground truth
based on all three things can we now
build the AI model to predict
what is going to happen for the glucose
response just from saliva even though
there is no research ever done so we say
we know from his tool to glucose
response can we build the model from
saliva to stool
in proxy for this glucose response and
we did that okay how how close is that
84 wow just for my saliva so for my
saliva would you be able to tell me hey
today based on your saliva bananas are
going to have this response wow 84 84
percent
it's amazing uh
what what do you think what's the error
on is it like a wild miss or is it like
as you mentioned
each person there is a variant in each
person even if you forget the other
people so just you alone there is going
to be 15 16 variation just inside you
that's it yes for the same food with all
the variable being the same so is your
prediction and I get that this is a
complete guess I just want to make sure
I'm tracking your logic is your
prediction that
uh
at 16. yeah I eat this thing and it has
this response regardless of what I'm
exercising doing all that at 47 years
old I eat the same thing I'm going to be
within 16ish no no you because no
because your activities are completely
changed now so if you remember you as
you are aging and your whole Lifestyle
the place you go to the People You Meet
how much of time you're spending in the
nature how much of the things you know
other things environmental do you need
the real-time response to get me within
84 that's right that means you need to
be able to do a test so we can analyze
what's your microbial activities are
which are different from when you were
16 and versus you're 47. yeah so maybe I
asked the question poorly but that says
to me is that the 84 represents the
difference between what's actually
happening and what you can guess from
the saliva
that's good so okay so you're making
these inferences but it's a these are
good approximately 16 ish here that we
just have no idea we can't tell and we
don't know why it's causing that because
we believe that at least in our belief
the human body itself has that
variability for other factors that we
don't know what they are yet still
incredibly interesting how do you think
that with a big enough data set that you
can Crush that gap down it will continue
to get closer and closer to get to 100
we need to be able to write the human
body that means we know exactly what's
happening and we can create a human body
because we know everything that happens
in the human body and when we get to
that point we start to play God right
yeah well that's interesting play God
for a second so where what are the gaps
what would we need to understand the
truth a term is we don't know what we
don't know yet we don't know it's not
maybe saying hey we know these things we
just need to do them now we don't even
know what we don't know it is human body
is so complex every single day if you're
learning something new and we say wow we
didn't know that like for example NAD
how many times people have said you want
to live long take NAD or NR or nmn
research came out last month that says
NAD and NR actually causes onset and a
progression of cancer meta size or
cancer
only in some people or in everyone in
some people right and now we need to
understand what is it that's going on
that's causing that we don't know that
this is why I'm so paranoid about
supplements right so honesty God that's
the reason I tell people don't put
anything in your body unless you have
analyzed it right so what we do is
slightly different again I'm not
suggesting that we got 100 of it right
so what we do is we say hey
having analyzed your saliva having
analyzed your blood having analyzed your
stool we don't think you should be
taking vitamin B3 because your uric acid
production is too high and we know this
niacin vitamin B3 is going to create
more uric acid and it's going to end up
turning into gold
or your bile acid production is very
high right now if you take curcumin
which everyone tells you is really
healthy is going to actually increase
more bile acid convert into more biles
bile salt is going to cause more
inflammation not less inflammation
but you do need we see this pathway is
not very active for you you do need
about 22 milligram of CoQ10 you need 70
milligram of lycopene you need about 50
milligram of blueberries at the
blueberry extract right so we literally
go through all the food extract vitamins
minerals herbs digestive enzymes
peptides probiotics and prebiotics and
literally so you need 22 milligram of
this 18 milligram of the 79 milligram of
that and we literally say this is for
Tom we built the whole robotic machine
now that literally say this compound
this is being produced for Tom here are
the things you need go to bin number
three get 22 milligram go to bin number
22 get 18 milligram go to bin number 27
and get a 95 milligram create the powder
Shake It Up
put them in a capsule and send them
after you and that's literally what it
is every single month we make it custom
make it for you right same thing here
based on my updated based on your
updated test right now
we test every you know six months four
to six months it gets updated as things
are changing our goal gets updated your
supplements what you need or what you
don't need right so causing they stay
good for four to six months but what
would be ideal what I exist every day if
I two to four months you don't body
doesn't adapt that quickly so three to
four months will be absolute I mean if
you want to be an absolute optimal three
to four months but six months is good I
mean you know it's not like they expire
somehow that your body is completely
different now you expire right
interesting that's the one thing that
and I don't know enough so I could be
totally wrong but it feels like the body
changes a lot faster like if you track
the microbiome you can see from day to
day that there's pretty big swings so
here is what we saw we actually have a
published peer-reviewed paper we took
people to say again this is a caveat we
told them not to change the way you live
and we say keep eating whatever you
normally would be eating and every month
just the way what you have been doing
and we analyzed their poop every single
day for 30 30 days and then we actually
put them things together and we see we
know exactly which people come from who
that means it didn't change
significantly yeah in terms of what if
you tell people not to change I don't
know how much that affects it but have
you looked at what the relationship is
for people four to six months on like
what percentage is the average person 96
percent the same every six months or is
there massive variation if you change so
let's assume we say hey here are the
foods that are really bad for you don't
eat them and here are the food that are
super food for you eat these and we tell
you why so we say here are the foods you
really need to eat and here is why don't
eat these foods and here is why for you
not for someone else for you what's
happening if you follow all that what is
up my friend Tom bilyu here and I have a
big question to ask you how would you
rate your level of personal discipline
on a scale of one to ten if your answer
is anything less than a ten I've got
something cool for you and let me tell
you right now discipline by its very
nature means compelling yourself to do
difficult things that are stressful
boring which is what kills most people
or possibly scary or even painful now
here is the thing achieving huge goals
and stretching to reach your potential
requires you to do those challenging
stressful things and to stick with them
even when it gets boring and it will get
boring building your levels of personal
discipline is not easy but let me tell
you it pays off in fact I will tell you
you're never going to achieve anything
meaningful unless you develop discipline
all right I've just released a class
from Impact Theory university called how
to build Ironclad discipline that
teaches you the process of building
yourself up in this area so that you can
push yourself to do the hard things that
greatness is going to require of you
right click the link on the screen
register for this class right now and
let's get to work I will see you inside
this Workshop from Impact Theory
University until then my friends be
legendary peace out
what happens is now suddenly the input
is changing
this activity changes so it doesn't need
your microbiome is changing your
microbial functions are changing because
now you're giving them a different
things to metabolize right so that
changes to a functional activity is
changing and we have seen the people who
change their microbial activity change
quite a bit if you don't change anything
so let's assume we tell you to do this
and take this supplement this providing
is it not going to do it and you go back
and analyze six months later and if you
more or less stayed the same you're
probably your activities would be more
or less the same if you started working
out they probably will be different if
you start spending more time in nature
it will be different so if you start
yeah of course
because remember every time you are in
nature you are inhaling you're
constantly being bombarded by the
microbiome right when you go past the
cow dung you smell bad what is that
you're certainly inhaling all that stuff
right so that's how your aromatic
sensors say oh that smells like [ __ ]
will that make its way to the actual gut
well it starts to make it to your body
right and then when you're smelling
through your mouth it's starting to go
the microbes of course by the way each
when you and I are probably breathing
billions of microbes every time just
when you're breathing in and out yes
crazy so if you could have a microscope
here you'll be seeing I don't I don't
think I want that yeah you get my point
but every food you eat is full of
microbes right whether you eat animal
food or you eat the plant food you
literally are essentially getting a
whole bunch of microbes what's your Take
On Me eating versus non-mediating plants
so again
when people have this fundamental idea
that if you are vegan or plant food you
are healthy without realizing almost all
the poison actually does come from plant
so just because you eat plant food
doesn't mean you're actually eating out
poison that humans have put on it or the
actual plants
poison ivy right I mean a whole bunch of
poison actually comes a lot of drugs
come from plants
right so at the point is just because
you think is plant doesn't mean it
necessarily good for you and again idea
is but if I were going to eat the
optimal plants versus the optimal Meats
yeah so I would say it depends on again
so here's what happens
meat the red let's start the red meat
because everyone thinks is bad and you
and I probably know lots of people who
eat red meat and potatoes and live to be
100 years old and lived healthy right
what is it so the me red meat contains
when it goes into your gut your microbes
change that into something called TMA
trimethylamine
and that gets absorbed into the blood
and your liver turns them into tmao
trimethylamine oxide which is what
causes the uh you know heart disease or
plaque in the arteries so if you TMA
score is low you can eat red meat
because it's not going to impact much
versus your TMA is high you know if you
eat more red meat you're going to
produce a lot of TMA which is going to
produce more trimethylamine oxide that's
going to cause more heart disease for
you is that at an epigenetic level or is
there a genetic marker that you can look
for so this is microbial marker remember
so this is what microbes produce that
take the meat and produce dma
interesting so depending on how I have
cultivated my microbiome either can or
can eat meat or can eat lot or little
interesting so do we know what the magic
cocktail like I like red meat the most
yeah so what cocktail of microbiota do I
need to be able to eat
that if we were to analyze today we can
tell you what your TMA production looks
like yeah but you should also be able to
tell me what I can eat to migrate my
microbiome to one that's friendly yeah
so that is actually a really really good
question can you actually precisely
adjust to see I want to eat this food
can you make you might make my
microbiome compatible with this yes
please so theoretically the answer is
yes
that practically
we don't know yet right but
theoretically there is no doubt what's
going to be the solve for that is it AI
it is AI and the data and understood
well it's more than
nature of this ecosystem it is so
complex that when we change one thing we
believe that's the only thing we are
changing yeah but can't you really just
look at the data on this one this feels
like if I if I give you a large enough
data set and I think you're over the
next five years I mean people I think
people are going to keep pouring into
this so let's say you have 500 000 now
let's say that you have 500 million in
five years it's absolutely so if we have
500 million data points yes could we not
start going okay people with this
snapshot of their microbiome they have
less heart disease whatever yep that we
absolutely can when you have that larger
data set you can solve very very complex
problems right and today we are seeing
we're getting closer and closer but we
are nowhere near understanding the human
body complexity and it just requires a
lot more data yeah but couldn't we get
away with just correlation on this you
can't accept that the problem is
if you have let's assume 10 000 species
capable of producing uh hundreds of
millions of types of potential
interaction remember if every microbe
has
see thousand genes that can express at
any point it's only expressing 100 of
them
right so do you think that there is a
microbiome type like are we gonna with
enough data will we get a snapshot that
says there's 52 types of microbiome ah
there's like of course like the
nitty-gritty is wildly different but
like for instance because I play in the
world of nfts you create these
collections of ten thousand but the ten
thousand like they still it's pretty
easy to tell one collection from another
so wouldn't it be I I'm gonna
hypothesize that with enough data what
we're going to realize is there's some
finite number that is not crazy let's
call it 52 for because I think that's
probably going to be relatively and you
say okay these the people that live to
120 they all have uh this pattern not
just a microbiome but like the three
snapshots or whatever they all look like
this pattern and if you eat roughly
these 416 things and exercise in this
amount or whatever then you're gonna get
that pattern and now we can check it and
see yep your your markers all line up
with the people who live to understand
what we see is really interesting is
even the people who are healthy
right just like that we talked the
example of the rainforest right so you
can have two people who are healthy can
have completely different set of
organism
because they all producing similar types
of things that keep us healthy so it's
not organisms what do you mean because
metabolites are all we care about so uh
you see when you see these microbiome
microbiome is not metabolite microbiome
is the organisms right but do we care
about the organisms that's my point so
when you mention they say can we come up
with a set of or my you know these
microbiome and I'm saying microbiome
functions yes so can we come up with a
microbiome functions that they are
performing and can they come up with
some some subset of them whether it's 52
or you know 500 some smaller numbers
finite numbers and we see if the people
who live to be healthy 95. by the way we
there is a study done there so they took
the people who were in 90s and they were
healthy versus people who were 90s and
not healthy what they found was the
people who are in 90s and healthy their
gut microbial activities are very
similar to the people who are 30 or 40
right so wow yes so that means they
maintain the microbial activity to be
healthy and that's why they tend to live
longer and that's just only one function
they analyze now obviously they didn't
in this particular study they didn't
look at the stuff and say what is their
immune system doing what is their oral
microbe doing right but in this thing
they did look at the gut microbiome and
showed the people who live healthy to be
in 90s had a microbiome to be much
younger person the activities
okay so there's a lot that we can learn
from these snapshots talk to me about
what you guys are learning about
through I assume data sets and AI that
you're able to start making predictions
around cancers I know you guys are going
to be releasing or have released being
able to spit into the tube what's the
relationship at this point is it just a
data relationship we know that people
with this oral microbiome tend to have
this kind of cancer or is there actually
something so we actually so here is what
we did and then I can explain what
happened right so this is what we did we
said he
people who have stage one cancer in the
mouth or in their throat
their human genes are expressed like
this and microbial genes are expressed
like this and then we took enough data
to see here I think we can now predict
if you have a cancer not potential to
have a cancer you actually have a stage
one cancer stage two cancer stage three
cancer and then we say okay if this is
the model can we look at completely
unseen samples
run this model against them so we say
all right we're going to take 120
samples don't tell us which one of these
samples have cancer or which ones don't
we're going to run our AI model and
we're going to see here are the samples
we found to have cancer or stage one
cancer stage two cancer stage three
cancer and we found these samples not to
have a cancer
and when we did that what we showed was
we were able to be specificity of 95 ah
damn right we can see this were right so
that means 95 out of 100 we say these
people have a cancer
and 90 sensitivity when we say these
people did not there was 10 charge they
could have had it right so we were able
to not take the data went to FDA FDA
gave us a breakthrough device
designation how long did that take you
guys so let's think about ear and
breakthrough device designation has two
meanings under the FDA nothing like this
exist that's why it's a breakthrough if
some task like this exists they would
say just go through the regular approval
right and this thing what you're doing
would save people's lives right so they
say this thing is a complete
breakthrough so you can Market this as
cancer detection if we do it right now
so you can go to our website it's called
cancer this is your biggest line of
business this is the recently launched
task which we think could be a map
that's just the beginning by the way so
we started with the thing you spit in it
you are you marketing this yes
like this is so insane I'm like am I
understanding this correctly so people
that have cancer you can detect 95
accuracy people that don't have cancer
you're 90 accurate cancer in the mouth
so far just want to be very clear that's
amazing but we are now going down the
tube we're not looking at the esophageal
cancer stomach cancer colorectal cancer
pancreatic cancer lung cancer liver
cancer and then we're looking at other
diseases Tom
IBD today IBD which is intestinal bowel
disease inflammatory bowel disease I'm
sorry inflammatory bowel disease so
people are Crone or colitis people have
them and they pain they don't know what
is going on we are able to now build a
model that we're going to be launching
in the next three to four months to be
able to predict within almost 97 98
efficiency that you have a crown or
colitis or you don't have IBD
wow and where are you guys at on the uh
can you speak to where you're at on the
cancer on those I know you're not
approved yet but those two this cancer
in the mouth and throat is already done
as a laboratory
colorectal colorectal cancer to me is
coming we have in fact the data being
collected what is more interesting is
not colorectal cancer actually to me
what will be the real game changer would
be calling polyps because colon polyps
just that you have them eight to ten
years before they become cancerous right
so if we can predict we have colon
polyps then we can say go to the column
get the colonoscopy and get them removed
because they'll never have a cancer then
so to us the Breakthrough is going to be
to detect colon polyps and we literally
are collecting all the data so when you
go to colonoscopy we get your samples
saliva blood stool and then we get the
physician report did you have colon
polyps do you have a colon cancer what
is it are you spending most of your time
on the medical side of this or the AI
side so some are both you personally so
I spend most of my time trying to find
these breakthroughs but remember none of
that can happen until you have this
massive amount of data so what happens
is our business which is our Wellness
business
allows you to stay healthy in turn we
get all of this data people who have
depression what their biomarkers look
like people who have anxiety what is
their biomarker look yeah so what I'm
trying to figure out from your when you
as I'm listening to you say this I'm
like please stop focusing on the medical
stuff just collect as much data as you
can by your team focusing on the medical
stuff but figuring out the AI component
of this feels like the huge breakthrough
this is crazy that you can detect cancer
in saliva yes and in fact not only that
we are able to see that how the human
gene expression changing when micro
expressions are changing because that's
what causes the cancer so in fact what
is really interesting Tom and Mark
should we talked about last time or not
they are able to now look at all the
solid tumors in every single tumor they
looked at there's a unique microbiome
inside the tumor of the Cat every Cancer
that you think will show up in the blood
that will show up in the blood right so
imagine what is that the interesting
question is what is that microbiome
doing inside the tumor
and one of the interesting thing is at
least the research is showing that these
tumor are displaying these microbial
peptides on top of the surface of the
tumor and it occurs to me why would a
organism like cancer who wants to
survive want to display to the immune
system come and kill me unless these
microbial peptides are declaring
themselves as self protecting the tumor
against the immune system and saying hey
we're all good here we are friends here
don't worry about us so wait how does
that work why why did you first think
that it would be a signal to come kill
me because anytime there is a foreign
agent
on anything something for an immune
system wants to attack that foreign
thing yeah so why would a tumor display
a microbe that's supposed to be foreign
putting up on the surface inviting the
immune system to attack it unless they
believed that substance is telling the
immune system that we are part of you
part of self so do you think they're
misunderstanding that what microbes are
essentially part some of these microbes
are part of ourselves that's the reason
the immune system doesn't attack them
right and some of these microbes have
now learned which by the way which is
autoimmune disease when your microbes
are starting to produce the amino acid
that may match with your say for example
your protein in your joint
guess what happened immune system things
is attacking the microbial metabolite
ends up attacking your own joint and
that's an autoimmune disease now right
because there is no reason for immune
system to attack our own body yeah I'm
missing something on the cancer uh take
us back to the 101. so cancer displays
things on the surface that's what we're
seeing so we don't know the mechanism
I'm just saying is that it's my
hypothesis what does it put on the cell
so it is producing the stuff from the
microbiome that's microbiome is
producing or the cell of the microbiome
that it is on the surface of the tumor
that's what we see right now and your
question is okay cancer you're you're
putting something on the surface of your
cell that the immune system is going to
recognize this foreign and it's going to
come it's not recognizing as foreign
and that's the reason the immune system
is not killing the tumor and so reason
must be there got to be something that
is something about displaying the
microbiome on the surface of the cell or
some of them all as well yeah all is
well
otherwise the immune system should be
killing that cancer
let me restate your hypothesis to make
sure I understand it correctly yeah
the immune system is very used to seeing
microbes because that's we've co-evolved
from mitochondria to what's in your
mouth what's in your gut all of that
but in the blood it's a different story
anyway let me finish your hypothesis so
the body is very used to seeing that the
cancer cell is putting it on the surface
of itself you think it's doing that as a
way to say hey we're just another micro
ball as well
the body also kills the [ __ ] out of
microbes if defined if the particular
micro pathogens it makes yeah so how
what is it about the microbiome on a
cancer cell that looks like so what we
so there is the reason why our immune
system is not attacking our microbes in
our gut
what is it that it's doing because at
least our understanding of the way
immune system works is when the baby is
born the microbiome in the gut starts to
actually create I forget the gland what
is the gland that produces the T cells
and B cells uh it start to actually
locate translocate to the things so it
says hey now we understand who you are
and we're not going to produce the
antibodies against you so that
macrophages can attack you right so it
starts to say okay we understand this is
no different than our human tissue
right and once it gets cleaned then
that's the reasons even though 70 of our
immune system is along our gut lining
it's not attacking our gut constantly
right and we don't know a lot of these
mechanism storms I wish I could tell you
hey we know exactly what is causing
cancer we know exactly how to solve it
the answer is we don't I'm just telling
you what is a current understanding what
is my hypothesis again hypothesis
doesn't mean the fact it needs to be
validated so scientifically all that
means is We Believe something that may
scientifically turn out to be right or
wrong and then if it is right then it
becomes a theory if it is wrong it goes
out the window right so currently the
hypothesis is not even a theory
yeah okay very interesting so by the way
that's why it's called impact Theory or
you know how Theory the theory means
when you start to make a hypothesis and
then you prove that hypothesis is true
then it becomes a theory that it seems
true so far yes how about that that's
true so far exactly yes okay so going
back to cancer I know your dad died of
cancer and that's a big reason why you
started doing this
um one so your dad died of pancreatic
cancer you were just saying that you
think that you'll be able to detect
pancreatic cancer how oh so it's
actually very interesting that research
clearly shows at least there was a NYU
Professor who showed that pancreatic
cancer is caused by a gut microbiome
going through the bile duct look
retranslocating into pancreas and
actually turning uh making the tumor or
at least helping the tumor grow and this
particular professor in injected the
antibiotics directly into the tumor in
the mice and that killed the microbes
and immune system killed the cancer so
something happens
in magically when they put the
antibiotics what did it do other than
curling the bacteria
that caused the immune system to kill
that tumor that means that's where the
hypothesis comes what are these microbes
protecting the tumor because immune
system wasn't attacking until they
killed the microbes I think we have to
talk about phages now yeah so uh
describe to people what phages are
because there's a very interesting
relationship between phages and bacteria
absolutely so let's just find the
microbiome for a second then I'm going
to come back to the features so
microbiome most people think it's just
about bacteria microbiome is micro means
small bio means life the organs right so
the life is small life they can be
bacteria they can be viruses and viruses
can be by the way normal viruses or RNA
viruses which are basically don't have
any DNA they're just RNA viruses so they
can't be detected any other way unless
you analyze RNA right and then there are
viruses that are called fridges and then
there are obviously the fungi and the
part of the fungi is mold right so
that's this viruses and phages synonyms
same thing so phages are a type of
viruses that only infect bacteria okay
right so the face the phages are in
nature they're 10 times more phages than
bacteria right and every spoon of soil
you take the trillions of these
organisms right these deadly viruses
that kill like 95 of all life on Earth
which I didn't realize until I started
so these fridges actually impact only in
fact bacteria and change the function of
the bacteria so they can only kill
bacteria which is why they don't kill
humans kill see that's I think they
don't kill bacteria in fact the bacteria
and change the functions remember now
they've injected their genetics inside
the bacteria right and that doesn't have
bacteria just replicate the phages so it
replaces and then ultimately
it's not just creating fridges it's
creating the bacterial functions
changing and it becomes symbiosis
sometimes so if you also know at least
in from what we have seen the phages
change the behavior of the bacteria in
terms of the functions they provide
that's all I can tell you with certainty
right okay so phage so here was why I
was bringing this up now
one of the things that I came across and
again I'm at the very early stages of
really understanding phages and bacteria
but one of the things that I came across
was that you have this really
interesting inverse relationship between
antibiotics and phages so because phages
and antibiotics are sorry phages and
um bacteria are in this constant
evolutionary arms race where the
bacteria is evolving to avoid death by
phage phages are evolving to make sure
that they can take over the bacteria
in this arms race the phage can only
work against either sorry the bacteria
can only battle off the phage or the
antibiotics but not both so it has to
choose an evolutionary path of protect
myself from the phage or protect myself
from the antibiotics if it protects
itself from the phage it will the
antibiotics will now be able to kill it
because I was researching superbugs so
by like 20 50 or something superbugs may
be the leading cause of death which is
crazy that's only 30 years from now so
less
so if that ends up being true we have to
come up with this countermeasure the
counter measure is phages so let me it's
just one more thing concept I think that
might become very clear so the way the
bacteria deals with phages it created a
mechanism called crispr and I'm assuming
you know it's the crispr that we use to
modify our DNA actually came from
bacteria so what bacteria does is once
it sees a particular type of a phage it
remembers the sequence of that phage in
genetic code I know some of them don't
technically have genes but like that
sequence atcg yeah or would it BECU or
ACG T depending on what is the RNA virus
or a normal virus right phage I don't
know the phage can actually be the RNA
phase or not I don't know that sure but
so let's assume their DNA features for
the time being when it comes and in fact
the bacteria bacteria remembers the
sequence of acgt and then next time it
sees it cuts it so that no longer can
replicate anymore right so the
replication of the virus fridge is
completely stops we learned that
mechanism of how to recognize the
sequence and cut it in this see what we
use now all of the companies like a
Crispers and stuff that you may have
heard is to modify the human DNA the
things can we find a particular mutation
in the human DNA that causes these
genetic diseases still so insane to me
these causes the genetic diseases of
this sequence
and tell our DNA hey this is the
sequence to cut and use the same
mechanism that finds the sequence in the
bacteria is called crispr cas9 and cas9
is the guide that tells you where to cut
right and the crispr does the cutting
right so anyway point I want to make is
that we learned from bacteria a
mechanism that it uses to save itself
from Pages
antibiotics are primarily designed to
attack not primarily is they only
designed to attack bacteria and not
viruses so antibiotics the problem is
even when we have a viral
things whether it's a flu or cold we
take antibiotics it can't do anything
with the virus it's designed to kill
bacteria and the more we take
antibiotics it's like throwing a nuclear
bomb inside it kills everything good bad
ugly everything is gone and now your
whole gut microbiome is gone your oral
microbiome is gone and you're toasted
right and now you have to restart again
right so now the idea is can we actually
detect that when we are taking
antibiotics don't take it over use it
when we do overuse it what happens is
these bacteria start to know how to
defend itself against this particular
antibiotics so you have to keep evolving
new types of antibiotics and the problem
that's happening is
the companies are no longer developing a
new antibodies because the shelf life is
so small they can't make enough money so
they stop producing new antibiotics
because the bacteria find a way around
itself eventually find a way around it
then antibodies doesn't work and nobody
wants to spend multi-billion dollar
developing a new antibiotics that may
have a short shelf life right so they're
saying is wait a sec it's no reason to
develop whole bunch of new types of
antibiotics and if you keep taking the
current antibiotics that bacteria evolve
to actually defend hand or not be
attacked by these antibiotics and that's
what creates these super bugs what do
you think about that what what's the
solution solution is very simple cut
down the use of antibiotics cut down the
use of over sanitization so constantly
using the plural on our hand
and I saw someone who is really paranoid
uh does it all the time guess what it's
evolving these bugs to actually save
itself
learn how to not get killed right so the
more you do sanitization the worst over
a long time it gets but is that really
so that seems like a completely
ineffective solution it's one of those
it would work if people would do it
people aren't going to do it especially
not as we come out of covid
uh and by the way if we and all
everything we do to kill the gut
microbiome is the problematic right so
food that we are eating is
you know pesticides what is pesticides
are supposed to do kill these organisms
when we eat the food with pesticide what
does it do kill your microbiome right so
and now what happens is now your super
bucks are being evolved to survive
against that you know uh attack
so does this seem like are you really
pessimistic about the avoidance of
superbugs no well I'm pessimistic is
that what humans actually start to take
care of themselves before we start to
lose our human species right so in a
sense would we start to grow more
organic food where we are able to use
the microbiome of the soil itself
because remember the microbiome wants to
survive it will fight the pathogens it
will fight the bad stuff if you really
start to create the diversity in the
soil so growing multiple different types
of food putting in more and more stuff
which is organic so cow dung all that
stuff what is carved basically full of
microbes right and that's literally how
we used to grow food that made the soil
rich
it made the microbiome fought off all
the pathogens and we actually had a good
tasty food actually and really good
organic food so I think we all have to
go back to how we grow food and you know
start to grow the way it was supposed to
grow and I'm not against like you know
hey don't evolve I'm not one of the
Unabomber that you know all Innovation
is bad Innovation is good but they're
not all innovation
so how do we deal with bad Innovation
and let's put it in the context of AI so
literally 2022 is the year if people
want to plan to flag it's the year that
it went from deceptive to disruptive
where now it's I'm watching debates on
Twitter where people are saying
yeah like literally abolish this there
was I saw a guy today it made me laugh
uh where he's an attorney yeah and
somebody put a video of GPT writing a
contract yeah somebody just put a prompt
and he was like you contact Congress
make this illegal I thought he was
kidding but he's actually being serious
so how do we deal with this level really
good introduction I think one of your
person here just before I came on he
typed in give me an intro for Naveen Jen
and it literally typed the intro that
you could read yeah right it's good but
the problem is very very early stage
in fact if you ask it a question it
doesn't know the answer to it makes up
the answer based on the fact it's like a
brain dot right you see I know this I
know this and now let me make up this
answer right it doesn't know to say Tom
I think you're going beyond our my
knowledge right now I don't know the
answer to this it actually makes up the
answer but someday could we create you
know general purpose AI or AGR right
that is going to be uh very very
difficult at least for the next five to
ten years so we are nowhere to forget
forget AGI for a second and just go so
literally I think this week Elon Musk
released fully autonomous self-driving
cars this is 95 of people don't even
realize we've released this yet yeah and
by the way it is not just remember man
Elon Musk has
what he sees and the truth sometimes
make limit diverge a bit right it's a
fully automatic car is someone you can
actually sit on a back seat and let the
car drive itself in all situations and
we all know what has happened right I
mean will it improve over time yes today
it gets confused between a a pedestrian
or a for example or a somebody could
have a cut out of a person it doesn't
know the difference you and I can look
at the stuff and say that's a cut out
that car may not know the difference
right so the point is there are a lot of
real world situations where you and I
until we have all the cars that are
following the same rules if we have
humans and this car interacting you and
I when we're on a force stop sign we try
to move a little bit and see if other
person is really
and he said all right you go ahead right
if you have a human and this car he
doesn't know the dance that dance to
play Ai and AI can play the dance if all
cars suddenly were using exactly the
same software they can negotiate against
each other in that particular situation
but it can't negotiate against the
humans because humans are not following
the same rules they cross the thing in
front of you it doesn't accept it all I
can tell you is my wife has a Tesla and
we took it on a you know fully automatic
and driving and having fun and a Truck
literally decided to take that come into
our lane and the car refused I'm on the
leftmost lane to go into the shoulder it
would not do because that's illegal
thing to do and I'm seeing this truck
literally pressing against me and I took
over and moved to the shoulder to let
him go if I did not that car would have
been totaled and I would have been
totaled right because it doesn't it's
not going to do something illegal to go
onto the shoulder but how far away do
you think it is before because like I'll
give you the one that in our world is
crazy as art yeah it has come out of
nowhere we've already released our that
uses AI it's insane insanely good but
those are small problems to solve it is
a very tough problems to solve on a
Tesla car that has never driven in a
village in a town it won't know what to
do because it doesn't mapped it yet
so this seems like what you're saying is
the innovations that really matter
they're not being disrupted by AI yet
but if you project forward this is going
to be a problem what I'm trying to tease
out is what you think about Innovation
how do we control it not control it I
think this is
so I think this idea that somehow AI is
going to become the Terminator and it's
going to kill humans that is a
far-fetched you know that somebody
actually created a company called Skynet
yeah well it's actually called Skynet
yeah but that's crazy why would you do
that point is it's
far-fetched idea because when we humans
are building AI
people have this idea somehow it's going
to become sentients and say I don't care
can become sentient but you've already
used it to detect cancer but it's very
different oral and throat yeah yes but
but I mean that's very different in a
sense that that's very very specific
thing that we know what to do right but
it's going to grow by day but that's my
point when used becomes general purpose
which is essentially any situation it
can deal with right to become a
Terminator it has to see I'm no longer
need to follow the rules that I have
written for because I am my own person
it's like your father saying Tom I don't
think you should do that it's a dad yeah
I hear you but don't really care do you
think the government should regulate AI
no absolutely not at all no not at all
why not but what we should the
government should regulate is a bad
behavior not the person right so in a
sense should government there should be
regulations what you can do with it
right but not the so think about it
should government regulate hammer
because you can use Hammer to kill
someone
should government regulate cars because
more people are killed by the car
accident than even for example even
gunned right right so should we see if
we need to regulate cars because more
people are killed by car than gun by
guns
right so Point number we do regulate
cars in terms of they have to be street
legal technology you can't no you can't
drive cars because when you drive cars
people get killed so we need to make
cars illegal
I'm just asking about regulation not
least so my point is in some sense my
belief is that we need to actually
control when someone does a bad behavior
not the thing that does the bad behavior
right so in a sense you can use anything
to do bad behavior and what do we do in
a law we don't say let's ban humans we
see let's burn the behavior of you
hurting someone
so we ban the use of AI to do the bad
thing we don't you ban the AI
so we don't regulate human beings we
don't say hey we are going to regulate
you Tom or you Naveen we're going to say
we are going to regulate if Tom were to
go out in the neighbor's house and do
Acts that is what we could regulate so
you don't see any problem marching
towards AGI I don't see the problem
because AGI first of all by the time we
get there we will put all the things in
place that we need to put in place to be
able to actually stop it from going uh
terminate it's very optimistic well it
will I mean think about it we can put
the thing that says there is a kill
switch
and if you put a kill switch you can
just turn on the kill switch well now
we're getting into but what if it's
conscious and now so my point is now
you're saying is he what it says I'm not
going to follow but at the end of the
day it requires the power unless it
starts to generate its own power
so that means now you have to say could
you have a AI driven robot that will
have its own power it does not need
anything from anyone have you seen that
the GPT will lie to you about
like oh GPT would you ever get so smart
and you know not let me know no I would
never do that this makes up the things
my point I'm going to make is that
currently the GPT if it asks him a
question it doesn't know the answer to
in fact we ask a bunch of questions it
just makes up the answer do you know the
difference between this this and this
and it says uh yeah this means this this
means this this means this it's not
gonna do the reality right so if you
just type in the stuff that it doesn't
know the answer to it will make up the
answer because it knows something about
it
yeah it's very interesting the guy I
forget his name that does open AI yeah
Sam Altman Sam Altman thank you was
saying that you know people ask if we're
censoring it he's like we're not trying
to censor it but we are trying to make
sure that it doesn't make [ __ ] up that's
what it does right now it's right now
but you're making a a judgment still
when you do that it's very complex but I
think you know as I said AI in itself
can be used for a lot of good in this
world what do you think is the next big
breakthrough in Ai and cancer actually
Ein cancer detection in my humble
opinion is going to get solved in the
next decade we are already getting
closer and closer I mean forget just one
for a second here if you look at
companies like you know Grail or bunch
of other companies like free gnome and
whole a bunch of other companies that
are rail and Grill and free gnome right
so there are a bunch of cancer detection
company Grail is able to detect about I
think 10 or 15 or maybe more types of
cancer through blood Through Blood okay
right however some of the sensitivity is
low today
specificity is very high so that means
with 99 if you have a cancer at 99
chance it can but when it says you don't
in many cases it is a coin toss
sensitivity is 50 interesting so they're
only good at telling you that you do
yeah and but it doesn't it's these days
you don't have a cancer there's a 50
chance you do a 50 chance you don't
right and that how could that be true
mathematically so fifty percent of the
time I do have it
but that if the do have is whatever 90
yeah how can the the the Zone be 50 so
in a sense that in a sense if you see so
wait of the five percent remaining 50 do
and don't
is that what no so the way it says is
that
with a high certainty it can detect if
you have it yeah right and it has a
different sensitivity for stage one
stage two stage three stage four right
so obviously it's very good stage three
and four and not as good as stage one
and two right and the sensitivity is he
how many times it will miss out the
cancer that you may have it right so in
there it's not very good and but what
I'm point I'm trying to make is forget
I'm not trying to talk about them is
that over time this problem will get
solved that means AI because a very
finite set of biomarkers that are there
when you have a cancer so you should be
able to detect them over time it will
become close to 100
accurate where you'll be able to detect
early stage cancer now the question
really comes down to is then what right
then the next thing problem is what do
we do about it so let's assume I say you
have early sign of cancer in your mouth
now what do I do the dot somebody has to
do something on it not do I do is would
immunotherapy work because it's Advanced
enough do we have to see his find where
it is and do the surgery and remove it
right those techniques will get better
and better for us to be able to
personalize the treatment for your tumor
your cancer and the location of that
would he will be able to actually make
specific thing for your immune system to
go out after that so we can take the
biomarkers and say hey I'm going to take
your immune system modify it outside
inject it back in so it will go in now
Target that particular tumor right so I
think the cancer to me I'm very very
hopeful and you know this was my hope
when my dad died that one day we'll be
able to cure this problem and I believe
we are getting closer and closer to this
thing right the fact we are able to
detect early stage cancer so the fact
other companies are able to do that I
really believe within a decade we'll be
able to solve the problem of the cancer
from the human body and I really think
in the next decade we as Humanity would
wipe out the cancer from the human body
if you had to guess what what is causing
the cancer I know there's no well so all
answer that if you say that there's no
way to know then I'll give you my no I
didn't know where to know when we know
that in some sense
cells are constantly dividing our body
is constantly dividing cells our skin
every part of our organ I mean our
epithelial cells is being constantly
being rejuvenated every part of our body
is constantly creating the cells right
and to large extent uh you know this
these Mis the the DNA gets mutated and
every time that happens our immune
system basically cells and the signal
and say hey something went wrong please
come and kill me immune system right
right and that works really well over
time as we age and now that lot of
things happen we start to have leaky gut
we started leaky gum you microbiome is
no longer targeting well so the
targeting of the microbi you know
targeting of our immune system is no
longer as good and it's now when there
is a error it doesn't get detected right
away and now that error starts to work
together and now we have a tissue that's
growing that is no longer heart tissue
and that's what we call cancer
right and then so this is the problem is
immune system actually not being able to
detect it and allow it to grow otherwise
immune there is no reason and that's the
reason why young people rarely have
cancer because your immune system is
extremely good at targeting it and
killing it as we start to age for many
many reasons because we have constant
stress in our body stress causes our
immune system to actually not function
properly right
right so I think maybe if I can just
diverge for a second here I you know
been looking at what causes people to
die or live longer what is that
longevity that you know we all want to
live long especially I would argue that
we all want to live healthy long right
so it's not we want to live to be 200
years in the last 150 years we just want
to be on wheelchair but nobody wants
that right what we are saying is we
really want a good health span and is
that how to spend can increase the
lifespan that's awesome but what we
don't want to do is to live our last 20
30 40 Years of our life in completely in
a vegetable state right we don't know
number of ones that is right so if you
want to live healthy in my opinion there
are five pillars just like a Maslow's
hierarchy this bottom most the basic
Foundation is a proper nutrition if you
don't have a proper nutrition or proper
fuel into the body you can have a
Ferrari if you don't put the right fuel
it is not going to drive well right so
that's the number one thing you have to
solve is get the good fuel in the body
that's right for you right so that's
where we come in today is to say hey
guys eat these food don't eat these food
right
take these supplements don't take this
supplement that's the nutrition part
once that is done you go to the next
layer which is stress reduction what
happens what causes stress and why does
the even human body have this stress
mechanism well when we evolve the only
time when we had stress was when tiger
was chasing us at that time when your
body is under stress it goes to fight or
flight response what happens in
fight-or-flight response it shuts down
all the non-essential system number one
your digestive system it doesn't care
your food is being digested or not
because you're about to be at lunch for
someone else right now so it shuts down
your digestive system it shuts down your
immune system it says you don't need to
worry about it right now and more often
than not the two outcomes you got eaten
by a tiger or you survived and if you
survived
your stress went down and you were back
to normal and you could live now in our
modern lifestyle we are constantly under
stress
a lot of people go to work you and I
probably don't fall into that we love
what we do I mean just like you I get up
at 4am in the morning and I jump out of
the bed because we we love what we do a
lot of the people unfortunately go to
work and their boss stresses them out
they go home their spouse stresses them
out and you know I both know that right
we are so fortunate to have a spouse
that supports you right I mean you have
an amazing loving relationship with Lisa
right point is that is awesome if you
have a conscious stress what's happening
you're always in a fight-or-flight
response not digesting the food your
immune system is not working you
constantly get sick you're always
exhausted
what did we learn so we say culturally
and religiously we say hey before you
eat let's do the Gratitude let's do the
prayer what was the purpose to bring you
back from a sympathetic mode into the
parasympathetic mode so you're no longer
in the fight-or-flight response when you
do the Gratitude you automatically move
out of the fight of flight response into
the back to normal so you can digest
your food your immune system and that's
the reason we we do the prayer we do the
Gratitude and we eat our food say about
it can die just right
the third part of the layer is
exercise your body has to move it needs
to exercise helps the body actually stay
in Balance right it changes your gut
microbiome it changes the hormones your
body produces endorphins or others right
it produces endorphins it produces
dopamine it produces serotonin and now
we have these herbs if you don't move
and you are living a sedative life it
doesn't do that and I'm not suggesting
that we become a you know gym rat what
it turns out is really need about 30
minutes of a good exercise that
increases your heart rate that's about
it you can do a high intensity training
you can even go for a fast walk for 30
minutes and that is considered to be
really good exercise right that is third
the number four is actually sleep
and it's this misnomer that you need to
sleep eight hours it's actually the
quality of sleep matters as much as the
quantity of sleep that means how much of
REM sleep are you getting how much of a
deep sleep you're getting
and I don't know about you I mean I
measure myself through all kinds of
mechanisms right from Aura ring to my
Apple watch to I have a pad under my
mattress that match me and I'm able to
now even in five hours or six hours I
can get almost close to two hours of REM
sleep and two hours of deep sleep when
you get that I feel really fresh I don't
need eight hours and some we need four
five hours six hours well I can't get if
if I get five I can do it one night
otherwise it's gotta be a little bit but
do you tell me what you get your damn
sleep and deep sleep I'm not I haven't
tracked my sleep in a while you should
do that I really think you will find and
you will learn what behavior of you
cause is that I can tell you for me
every time I don't get about two hours
to three hours before I actually sleep
and eating it actually disrupts my sleep
so I actually tend to eat early by six
o'clock and go to bed by nine all right
so I get three hours of no food so
allows me to digest my food before I go
anytime I drink even half a glass of
wine it disrupts my sleep
every time I have
some type of thing that bugging me I
just don't get that that's what kills
myself so stress anxiety and you know
this again I'm not going to tell you
what to do I can tell you what works for
me I have basically developed this
mindset that says universe is my friend
everything that's happening to me is for
my good
and there are only two types of things
in this world the things that are in my
control and the things that are out of
my control if the things that are out of
my control I simply say is it is what it
is and it will be what will be and I am
at peace with that if things are in my
control I know I am doing the best I
possibly can and it is what it is and it
will be what will be and even though the
things happen that look
maybe oh my God I can't believe
more often than not a decade from now if
you look back at they're saying huh it
was the best thing that I could ever
happen to me so people in the moment
describe the event as good or bad that
changes their mindset that changes their
action simply by putting a label to an
event is good or bad
we all When We Were Young you broke up
with a girl and you thought that was the
worst thing that could have happened to
you and sometime two years from then
sometime 10 years you look back and say
what a nightmare you avoided that one
right point is the event in itself is
neither good or bad because you don't
know until later about it or even if it
is bad the lessons you learned could be
the what changes you what you become and
if you fall in love with who you are
today then every single thing that
happened before you you would not want
to change one iota offer thing that
happened to you good or bad because
that's what made you who you are today
so if you fall in love with yourself
today
then everything that happened to you was
the best benefit to you it was what made
you who you are today right so coming
back to it so that's the you know Sleep
part and the last part is really
important which is finding a purpose
there is a tremendous amount of research
that shows people who live in life of
purpose tend to live 8 to 10 years
longer than the people who don't have a
purpose so find what you're willing to
die for and live for it find a purpose
where you are jumping out of the bed
every morning for what you do and any
morning when you don't jump out of the
bed that's the day to quit what you're
doing because that's no longer your
calling right and you know the way I
Define for myself is I see you know this
idea of you have to have a passion for
what you do you know I always say
passion is for hobbies the true calling
comes from having that Obsession not
Obsession for a thing not Obsession for
a person but Obsession to solve the
problem that you care about and once you
develop that Obsession to solve that
problem you spend your life jumping out
of the bad wanting to yourself problem I
love it man where can people follow you
as you solve this very complex problem
what you can find me on ym.com that's
viome.com and you can find me in my
social media Instagram you can go to
naveenjen.com and by the way Tom I want
to tell you that I you know in the last
recording to date even today I got an
email from saying I saw you on Tom bill
you podcast right I love it so I'm going
to do the same thing I did last time if
any one of you want to reach out to me
just send me an email that's naveen.jan
gmail.com and you will get to me I read
all my emails right and I did that last
time by the way I still get emails and I
just always I will respond to every
single email because to me if I am here
and if I believe I'm here to serve
people you need to be able to be
actually be
found I love it yeah awesome all right
everybody if you haven't already be sure
to subscribe and until next time my
friends be legendary take care peace
if you want the keys to living longer be
sure to check out this episode with Dr
Stephen gundry the lining of the gut is
only one self thick and they're all kind
of held together with what are called
tight junctions a locked arm and arm
like a game we played Red Rover Red
Rover that kids don't play anymore
so the bacteria