Kind: captions
Language: en
if you want to get a woman and hypergamy
is true now what she shouldn't have big
body count why is it an ego thing are
you worried that they've seen so many
penises that they're going to judge
yours and think it's small the strategy
you're running is extremely dangerous
this sounds like [ __ ] this sounds
like
PR what would a guy have to do to be
irresistible to a woman somebody that is
driven and ambitious but they don't need
money attached to it but I am not not
interested personally there's zero
judgment I'm not interested in someone
that wants to sit on a couch and watch
TV all day smoke weed get drunk and then
not do anything that isn't interesting
to me so that isn't the person that I
would look for but ambition Drive is
sexy as hell so if I find it sexy as
hell I don't need the money that comes
with it but the fact that you're driven
the fact that you really want to
accomplish something is attractive to me
so I would look for that now you're
probably going to go to height which I
know is something that you talk about of
like women care about height I'm 5' one
so it hasn't really been much of a
problem for me but I absolutely love
that you're tall now this is zero
judgment on guys that are shorter and
what I mean by that is it's not that
isn't the only thing that is attractive
right if you were tall and all your
other attributes really freaking sucks
and there was a guy that was a 5' one
and he had all these other attributes I
would go for the 5 foot one guy just to
be very clear but I'm attracted to the
fact that you're tall because I do love
it when you wrap your arms around me and
if my feet hurt you carry me on your
back um the amount of times I falling
asleep on in the car on the way back
from a club you carry me into bed I love
chivalry I love that you're a powerful
strong man that doesn't make me weaker
and this message that is going out there
where it has to be one or the other I
think is [ __ ] and I think that as a
woman I can be damn powerful I can be
confident I can't be pushed around I can
set strong boundaries I can stand up for
myself and at the same time I can
absolutely say I want you to lead this
family I love seeing you sit at the head
of the table I love it when you carry me
I love it when you hug me and wrap your
arms around me because I feel safe I
love it that if someone broke in I would
look at you to go and save me all of
that is still true and the message out
there right now is it has to be one or
the other you have to either be a bad
[ __ ] [ __ ] who can take care of
herself I don't need a man or you have
to be the super freaking submissive
woman that never speaks her mind that
doesn't have an Instagram page that
doesn't sleep with other guys like it's
one or the freaking other can I get her
number real fast just in case something
happens to
you I'm kidding yeah I know you are um
so that's how I feel and that's I think
where we're getting so trapped is that
it has to be one or the other and the
truth is it freaking doesn't but you
have to discuss it because it wouldn't
work in our relationship if we never
discussed it and I think that I'm
leading or I think oh no no we both lead
it's equal I don't think that would work
and so I just take the blinders off to
say what's going to work in a relation
you need one leader it's like a company
you can't have two CEOs if you have two
CEOs with the same skill sets one of you
is obsolete period so just like in a
relationship if you're both trying to
follow or dance you don't have both
people leading in a dance you always
have one person leading so knowing all
of that I have zero problem with you
leading I want you to lead so I can hold
going back to something I keep saying I
can hold the two competing ideas and
it's actually not even comp P I'm going
to take that back it actually
compliments and once upon a time I
thought if I wanted to be confident then
that would mean that it would diminish
you if I wanted to stand up for myself
that that would make you less of a man
that if I want to feel powerful that
that's going to make you less powerful
and that's all [ __ ] would you date
somebody working the line at McDonald's
are they ambitious are they driven they
want to take it over they want to own
McDonald's one day and they love it and
they're happy they are miserable but
they're really going hard like they're
they're really working at it you just
said they're miserable I'm not
interested in someone that's just sits
in their
misery okay so he gets ruled out because
he's miserable all right he steps out a
new guy steps in still at McDonald's
though uh he also wants to run
McDonald's he's happy very happy really
lovely guy um he's 48 by the way still
working the front counter but he really
wants to take over one day and he's
super ambitious and he's actually AC
okay he's actively seeking running it
versus sitting there and just saying I
want to run it one day I'm working
really hard but are you actively no I'm
not going to give you that easy discard
he's really trying yeah but he he's
still at the front counter that's fine
so failure after failure after failure
you're still going to date this guy
you're not going to be like something's
wrong with this skill set if I could sit
down with him and be a part of that
conversation of like hey part of my job
is to help you achieve your goals to
uplift you so here's what you're doing
wrong if they're really freaking
defensive that's not interesting so it
all comes to how what would you cuz this
sounds like [ __ ] this sounds like PR
so for real this guy's 48 still working
the front line of McDonald's you're
you're going to be like well he just
needs me let me roll up my sleeves no no
no no you don't see that as like red
flag Central yes I do see that as a red
flag you're right if he was 26 sure but
48 I see it as a red flag because I
would have to go well if he's been this
driven and ambitious for 20 years and he
has a growth mindset and he's always
trying to improve and he's still here
how come so I would just ask the
questions but in and of itself someone
working in McDonald's as a cashier isn't
the problem it's this there's something
underlying right here that I haven't
quite seen yet because if you are
freaking driven and ambitious if you you
do have a growth mindset and you're
willing to push yourself if you're
willing to take off the blies and ask
yourself how what am I doing wrong then
you're not going to be in that
position is my opinion and my thoughts
do you believe in hypergamy the tendency
of women to data cross and up yes okay
so if that is true on average of course
there are going to be um deviations from
that but if on average that is true uh
what do you think happens to someone not
not to you just your success is um
unusual
so for the average career oriented woman
she's making 150 175 like she's really
she's doing a great job uh given that I
mean it's something like in fact uh pull
up the delusion calculator how many uh
men
make uh over
$175,000 I love that it's actually
called female delusion calculator oh my
God it is yeah no th this thing is
amazing I've never seen this before so
uh you can leave it any color shade oh
of course of
course go 20 to 50 20 years old to 50
years old yeah okay okay so that'll just
give us a broader swath of humanity uh
minimum income 175 please minimum height
six that's that's yeah you can lower
that down you said you go all the way to
51 let's get crazy there we go I yes oh
so wait you're about to say that was a
lie no no no I said if you take all of
this if all these what do you want us to
put 53 53 I think that's a lie butol
five five do I hear 5'8 well here's the
thing if you're asking my preference six
fo I freaking love that your well we're
you're putting a minimum filter okay 5'
five my dad's perfect so uh so let's
find out so this is 55 guy any color who
any weight even which is also a lie
almost certainly uh making
$175,000 actually would make a
difference okay so the probability of a
guy US male population ages 4.3% good
Lord even at 20 to 50 what I'm really
driving at is there are just proxies
that people use to filter people out
yeah and one of the proxies is how much
does this person make which is a proxy
for are they smart enough to generate
resources and so depending on your age
we got together young enough you weren't
asking how much I was making but you ran
an assessment and might I say you were
quite accurate on whether I would ever
be successful
uh but just to be very clear for people
at home that may not know when we got
together I had more money than you you
were in college there and my dad was uh
very comfortable CU he' worked so hard
so just as a context I didn't care about
the money even just meeting you doubt
poor you did make me poor I even
collected coupons for the first time
when we got married but it didn't bother
me why because you had all these
important attributes that I care
about but look hypergamy is very real um
again on average cuz I actually have
friends where they make more than their
partners and it's not a problem why
because their Partners actually
extremely ambitious and so even though
they're not they don't make the money as
equal to them they're building
businesses they have visions they work
hard I'm going to go with false on this
one so the stats if I'm not mistaken
andw please pull this up that uh if
somebody's if a man's significant other
makes more money than him he has 50%
more likely to need erectile dysfunction
medication yeah and I understand that
and I if that's the stat that's the stat
and so I'm not saying universally I'm
just saying there are women that I know
that actually do make more money than
guys they their Partners you know them
um and it isn't a problem because
they're still excited they're still
building their business they have a
vision they plan to really build and so
it doesn't ever seem I'm not in their
marriage I'm not in their relationship
so I have no idea what do you read cuz
talking about small handful of women is
not super indicative of the world so
sure anything is possible these are all
distributions and 100% some people will
have no beef with it whatsoever uh I am
of the belief that the statistics will
back me up that the more differential
there is between men and women in a
relationship where the woman is
outperforming on any um comparable
metric if she's having more success in
her arena in her career if she's making
more money if she has more accolades
more whatever that that is likely to
cause a problem in the relationship this
is all tied to my very strong belief
that men need to feel powerful and if
they don't feel powerful you're going to
have a problem now this is all building
towards a question so I just want to set
the table for a whole lot of reasons
that I could um map out I feel very
powerful there are many uh powerful not
just in life but in relationship to you
you look at me like a superhero uh there
are things that you care about that I'm
very good at that you're not that you're
very glad that you can Outsource to me
you are much better than me at certain
things and so one I'm emotionally stable
two I have self-esteem that is
predicated on a very long history of
acting in accordance with my values the
number one thing that I look at is being
efficient towards getting to the thing
that brings human flourishing and so I
wouldn't allow myself to end up in a
death spiral about you being better than
me at one thing but if you were better
than me at everything or you were better
than me at the core thing that I'm
trying to do that would be problematic
uh in fact one of the questions I have
for you did not plan to get to it now
but um when you stepped into being an
entrepreneur uh had you come in and been
like no I want to be the leader I want
to run this I want you to slot him
behind me or even worse God this would
have been worse you were like no I'll
follow you and then you were like oh God
but you're so slow and bad at this and
then surpassed me and put me in a
position where to lead I would have had
to say slow down so I can lead which you
know that I will never say that would
have been devastating and the hardest
thing that we ever went through in our
relationship was that so was you
becoming an entrepreneur that was
already hard so I can't imagine what it
would have been like if you had come in
and eclipsed me in every way and we
didn't have a complimentary skill set
but instead we had the same skill set
and what you said earlier that if you
think the same one of you is Obsolete
and if that the person who was obsolete
had been me that would have been
brutal uh and so what would you have
done in that moment really because this
now is like the question that I wanted
to get to that the whole last segment
was building up towards which is what
should women do that want to find love
maybe even want to have a family but
whether they want a family or not they
want to find love should
they never brighten their light no
you absolutely need to brighten your
light as bright as you can go and the
truth is being the woman I am now with
the confidence and understanding of
myself cuz back then I think I was very
nervous and very scared to tell you
because I was so worried that I would
lose you but now being me it's like I
wouldn't be able to bring myself my
confidence to the table to this
relationship
and dimming your light I've never seen
work I've never seen any ah I did not
say dim your light I said never turn
your light up oh I want to be very clear
should they just stay small because if
you don't go train and you don't go push
yourself you're going to be way easier
for him to surpass so let me just I'll
ask it really bluntly there are two ways
to be the tallest person uh way number
one is to grow yourself and uh way
number two would be to cut somebody else
down there's two ways to be the shortest
person just never grow yourself or be
around somebody who's much taller than
you so you can take out the path but the
question is should they just stay small
or should they get as big as they can
knowing that they'll just have to find
somebody bigger but that pool of people
becomes
0.004% know what your decisions know
what outcomes your decisions are going
to create so it's up to you are you okay
with living a life where you're never
able to grow and
shine and will that erode your
confidence or will that actually
maintain your confidence because
anything that erodes your confidence and
your sense of self I would strongly
advise against it and the truth is even
though it's interesting that you stopped
me and you said ah I didn't say dim out
you're like you said never Shine the
truth is in not being able to shine by
definition because that's where you want
to go and you can build to you will
eventually then have dimmed your light
so if if I've spent the last 5 years
building my confidence going towards the
thing that I'm really excited about
brightening my light in 5 years I would
be brighter be asking me not to get to
that stage so to me actually it's the
same thing you are still asking me to
dim my light and because I did that for
8 years you didn't ask me to that was a
choice that I made and never spoke up
and said that I was unhappy but I've
been there and I wasn't happy now how
the hell do you have a happy successful
healthy relationship when one of you is
profoundly unhappy you can't
and so when we even said I said hey I'm
going to be an entrepreneur or I really
want to go into business I love building
quests with you I want to do this full
time it was very difficult for you your
entire life had to change and you even
said at the time babe what kind of
husband would I be if I put clean
underwear ahead of my wife's
happiness and that is the truth if you
had said I don't want you to do that
that's exactly what you would have done
you would have asked me to put your
needs your um your comfort ahead of me
being the person that I want to be and I
don't judge you for that you need to
live the life and have the relationship
and marriage that actually serves you
but I think at that moment if you had I
don't see personally how we would have
navigated through it because me and you
have navigated through a lot of problems
we hit a war we disagree we fig you know
there's an issue and then we just like
we just have to keep navigating let's
try this let's test this I don't see how
no matter how how much we tested that I
would have been able to
flourish if you had asked me not
to and still be able to bring my best
self to the relationship and that then
leads to me having built a business with
you gone on the trajectory the last 15
years I've built so much of my
competence that's led to me being
confident right I was petrified of ever
going in front of the camera never
wanted to speak on stage like all of
that I never thought I would ever do
and I figured it out I did it I kept
doing it wax on wax off right Karate Kid
I got so good that I became extremely
competent and in my competence I came
extremely confident now what if I hadn't
gotten there the thing that I've we've
said to each other and I said to you was
insecurity isn't sexy and so now if I'm
bringing my insecurity because I don't
feel good about myself all the time to
the relationship that isn't a turn on
for you I know it's not it's not a turn
on to me if you're always insecure about
something and don't do something about
it want people to know that it's that
act of needing to do something about it
versus sitting in the insecurity and not
doing anything about it so if I had
maintained insecure if I didn't build my
confidence if I wasn't able to brighten
my light I wouldn't be the person I am
to bring what I need to the
relationship so in me projecting what I
want in life how I can show up I
wouldn't have said oh okay it's fine I'm
just going to stay at home it wouldn't
have been healthy and I don't think we
would have lasted this
long agreed uh that you're um answering
phenomenally well for the N of one
experiment that is you but what I want
to know is uh hypergamy is real I
believe that it is part of a larger set
of social circumstances that are
completely deranging relationships
between and women um so you've already
put on the table no matter what the
consequence is women should go and
express themselves to the fullest of
their abilities to drink as deeply from
progress in their own life as humanly
possible
um as I set the table with all the
different problems um which I'll get to
after you answer this question I want to
know in what direction do you want them
to grow themselves because they can go
grow and career in which case all the
hypergamous stuff kicks in uh they could
go grow themselves in traditionally what
I'll call traditionally feminine ways
which I'm sure is going to spark some
comments but um going out and like I
want to be the greatest uh kindergarten
teacher of all time and I'm going to
flex and I'm going to raise that next
generation and whether I have my own
kids or not like I want to nurture and I
want to see these kids just go do their
thing but I am going to pour myself into
this um or I'm gonna be a mom and I'm
gonna pour myself into becoming the
greatest Mom and like teaching my kids
about Fitness I'm GNA homeschool them
and I'm going to learn as much as I can
so that I can teach these kids and I'm
going to be the homeschool that all the
other parents bring their kids to and so
I'm going to get to flex my muscle but
because I don't want to trigger all
these hypergamy problems I want to be in
this Lane and I really want to
goam do you feel good about saying hey
ladies remember this is a trade-off and
so here's one way to flex as hard as you
can but to stay in a lane that lets you
play a role or do you think that I'm an
evil Overlord for even framing the
question in that I don't yeah not an
evil Overlord but I don't think there's
a lane that's that's almost what pisses
me off about my own journey is that I
felt like there was a lane I had to
stick to so every example you just gave
in my head I'm like [ __ ] yeah [ __ ] yeah
so it's like going in the crush it in
the business well I'm [ __ ] yeah being
the best kindergarten yeah hell yeah
what's that thing for you now there is
that tradeoff it's important to know
what the knock on effect is with the
decisions you make so if you decide I
want to build my own business I want to
earn $200,000 a year and I want to be so
successful and I don't care whether I'm
single or married cool now at least you
know put it in priority order in fact
and then just know what the outcome is
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knowing that I'm going to be in business
I want to crush it that my pool of guys
is going to get smaller I can at least
look at it with my blinders off and say
yeah okay that is potentially truth if
that is truth what am I going to do
about it it's my decision it's a
trade-off one or the other what am I
willing to trade am I willing to trade
my career or am I willing to trade the
guy or am I willing to trade you know uh
having kids like what is that thing that
you're willing to trade for the the
thing that you get and so I can't tell
people what to do because it has to be
right for them but I can freaking say
that if hypergamy is real which I
actually think it
is now what and but I'm going to pose
the same thing to guys if that's true
now what if you want to get a woman and
hypergamy is true and you know that
women are going out there and they're
being career oriented and they're
getting educated now what
you can sit on the couch and complain
which is your right you can go well [ __ ]
I want to get one of those women so I'm
going to go learn things I'm going to go
build skills so I'm going to earn
$250,000 then you take
action but just sitting there
complaining doesn't serve anyone doesn't
serve the women if you're if women are
sitting there complaining like I can't
believe I can't get a good guy this is
fact now what if guys are complaining I
can't get a good woman because now what
but everyone just wants to sit in the
complaining and that just drives me nuts
and it and I say this with compassion
but it's just like I really want people
to succeed and that's why I'm so blunt
and that's why I'm so blatant because I
really do it breaks my heart to think
about guys out there that have a low
value towards women or a low you know uh
um an ill will towards women as well
like the red pill Community like there's
some vital there's some cruelty there
and it's just like man that doesn't
serve you that doesn't help women that
won't help you that won't help a
relationship if that's what you're
looking for and so really what you're
doing is you're just feeding into that
emotion that then won't get you what you
want and again the same with women so
take the blinders off see what is
actually true and then decide knowing
the truth can you give it to me in a
single sentence how can a man be
irresistible to a woman and I'll if you
want to throw in a like a couple like
one two three cuz I imagine there are
things like uh be clean smell nice uh do
your hair which is so ironic that I now
wear a hat all the time because you
would prefer that I did my hair uh and
it is just laziness but it's efficiency
I'm going to take that back and that's
the thing and I know efficiency is one
of your core values yes so even though I
like that you're when you your
hair I like it but I would never ask you
to not do something that is against your
core value except on a special occas
except on special occasion Fair all
right I don't want to derail you again
so uh single sentence by all means if
you want to throw in a couple lisal
pieces uh but as conis you can give it
to us there are guys on the edge of
their seat they want to know instead of
checking out I can go do these
things and be irresistible for real of
course no one's going to truly be
irresistible but that I'm I'm putting
myself in a good category okay building
your confidence a th% confidence is very
sexy so building your confidence being
authentic in your actions because if a
woman feels a gut instinct that you're
trying to manipulate that again just
being authentic in your actions so uh
confidence being authentic in your
actions
kind
strong physically I think you need to be
stronger than her yes
physically again this is don't back off
I love it women need to feel safe so
that's actually why I said the strong
part because when I went okay what are
the core things that I think women
really look for what does that equate to
for men so if a guy is strong the last
thing you want is for the woman to come
and save you right how in fact how would
that make you feel if a woman and I'm
I'm not on the one sentence I apologize
but um was it FR Fran drer God you're
really going to the darkest possible
place ever yes it was Fran rusher can I
tell the story please I but this is I
want to give almost context to why I say
strong as well like again this is and
this is more of a guy thing so the guy
wants to feel like they they can be the
hero we're going to come back to your
list but so on make her feel strong now
you have a side note about Fran rusher
the most horrifying story of all time
it's it's so upsetting so heartbreaking
but um one day she goes out with her
friend with her husband and a couple
they come home and there's actually
Intruders
um and The Intruders tie the husband up
husbands up and then basically rape
their wives basically yeah in front of
the
husband as a guy in fact why don't you
answer this what would that do to a
guy's psyche it's game over and it was
certainly for her husband they could
never recover because the guy cannot
feel like he can protect a woman y so
that's why I think the safety thing is
very important a woman does want to feel
and I can't imagine like I wouldn't
blame you so like God forbid that
happened I wouldn't look at you and be
like oh my God I Blame You they would
either have been stopped or I would be
dead like those are the two options on
the table I can't say that I can
overpower them but I can say that I can
die trying yeah so knowing what that
would do to your psych so I think women
want to feel safe in order you to feel
safe I would say that a woman wants a
guy ideally that is absolutely stronger
than her that can protect or that is
actually just has a strong mindset that
is willing to [ __ ] fight for the
death because that also is very
attractive
where it's like oh I can take anyone
down and if I can't I'm going to die
trying that's very attractive all right
so confidence authentic kind stronger
than her makes her feel safe those I
think will be the key things full stop I
mean not educated not
funny laughter yeah you yeah it's a good
one you got to make the woman laugh but
here's the thing you don't just want to
be the jokester that doesn't have all
the other things so when I met you you
were funny you like you were a jokester
you were freaking like intellectually we
could have these the types of
discussions and push each other's
thinking and I value that I don't
necessarily know that all women will
value it you were such a like you were
very masculine that I very much loved
and uh very and very drawn to but you
had a sweet kind side that wrote
poetry so you whenever you think about
the things that even I'm saying it's not
just one of those if you're just this
big Burly man that can make a woman feel
safe but you're not kind you're not
funny you actually lack the confidence
it's
not attract that in and of itself isn't
just the thing so it's the combination
of the two so when I was with you you
were a very strong masculine man but you
were kind you were sweet you talk you
told me that you would talk you know you
talk to your mom all the time and you
wrote poetry and so understand like oh
okay you have these different Dynamics
and it's not that you're going to be
this overpowering dominant Force because
you had the kindness that really cared
about how I felt so it's the combination
of all these that make the
cocktail of an attractive man can I
throw out a couple more and you tell me
if you would like to include them you're
great this I think the following ones um
are going to be must for you but I'll be
very interested to see if that's
true okay uh
ambitious for me yes but I don't think
it's for everybody so that's why it's
like if you're talking uni trying to
give Universal yep I don't think
everyone woman cares about ambition in a
guy we're asking a lady but I will just
say from where I'm sitting
gentlemen the lady has spoken I think I
know women universally because I know
women mhm one person in particular that
has a stay-at-home husband and she goes
and works and they've been married for a
long time again I'm not in their
marriage but she loves that he's so
happy and she like she literally
genuinely says all right I've been shot
down but on the side guys I'm telling
you right now uh
driven again I think it I don't think it
goes to so no it's not a must so driven
in money for two well actually is it
actually important to go driven in money
no driven to accomplish goals so
ambition is I want a thing Drive is I'm
going to do whatever it takes to get it
I think the drive if it came to like
they didn't even care about the
family feed yourself figure it out like
this is still just these are I don't
think I don't know I'm saying I don't
think women would like that I think
women would want someone that's driven
to provide for the family in a certain
way so provide I don't necessarily mean
just Financial right it could be provide
like I said as a stay-at-home dad he's
providing something so that I think is
something having a hard time with this
answer uh successful push back I love
like you know first let's lay this all
out and then I'll give you my very
aggressive take and you just cuz look
it's entirely possible that I am so
wrong that this is what men are getting
wrong they all think like me and we're
just driving off a cliff but I'm also
one that is very attracted to ambition
and drive yes I know that's why I'll
give my pitch to the end so but so far
you've killed ambition you've killed
Drive they are not Universal for you
successful in what Define successful um
a worldly
success so they can provide
financially um I don't think that's a oh
God I don't want to
[ __ ] I think to an extent yes a
woman probably would want that so are we
calling that must meet minimum
requirements yeah so even like ambition
and drive I think has minimum
requirements again if you're just the
person that sits on the sofa watches
Netflix and smokes weed all
day I can't think of that as being
attractive in any circumstance so do you
tie that to ambition do you tie that to
drive do you tie that to success it's
all yeah so yes there are bare minimums
then for all of those okay uh can hold
space for female emotions a th% yeah D
hey I'm one of seene earlier that was
part of my being seen okay that's what
we're how we're defining that yeah okay
holding space for me to have
emotions okay well actually in fact the
thing that you and I fight about all the
time you'll get nine words into a
sentence and I'll be like yes I
understand exactly where you're coming
from I can steal man it I'll explain it
as well or better than you and that is
deep unsatisfying for you you're like
causing anxiety right now you hate that
so much and yet I actually can do it but
it doesn't even though I see you in an
avatar way I know exactly what you're
going through you need me to hold space
for you to be in that emotion and even
if it is something that warrants
aggressive and immediate action this
just came up the other
night uh you needed me to hold space
face for a while where it's like no even
though in that conversation you said
this is a fix it conversation I could
tell by your body language and
everything it it was and you very
quickly by normal standards moved on to
yes and now I actually want a thing but
I had to ask for permission to roll my
eyes back in my head like a shark and
pursue it and I start you said yes and I
started to do it and I was like uh oh
it's actually too soon and so it was way
way way way faster than normal but I did
need to hold that space for you you yes
correct and I don't know if you remember
the very first things I said cuz you
asked me a few times the very first time
you asked me I said I just need to have
my emotions and I it was almost like I
know I do want you to fix this cuz that
was the thing it's like I do want you to
fix this and I know that actually that
you are the right person to fix this for
me but right in this moment I just need
the emotion so it was The Duality of
knowing that you had when I came to you
you paused me and said is this one that
you need to be seen or you need to or
you know carry space or do you want me
to fix it and that is fundamentally the
I think one of the biggest issues most
couples have in fact I today as I was
going through what's Tom going to ask me
I was in the doctor's and she's
literally taking my blood and I was
like what is the biggest problem that
women have with men cuz I was like you
know what are the sorts of things that
your audience are going to want to know
and so I turned to this literally the
nurse and she's taking my blood like
what's the one thing she goes he doesn't
just hear me out he's always trying to
fix it I didn't even preempt her so I
was like it is universal so if we know
it's Universal how do we navigate we
both have come up with a strategy in our
relationship where if I do come to
because mostly it's me coming to you in
that moment you stop me because I'll try
to get better in saying I just need to
be heard but if I don't say that when I
first come up to you you stop me and say
well hang on a minute babe is this where
you need space or is this this where you
need me to fix it and being able to
communicate that now allows you I don't
want to shut that part of you off that
really just wants to go and fix it right
it's giving you the opportunity to be
able to say hey you can fix it but it's
also allowing me the moment where it's
like I don't want you to fix it I just
want to feel seen and heard and that
Dynamic has been beautiful we're not
there yet where I just automatically can
say that to you without you having to
ask me but um I think that there's
always ways to navigate things like that
and instead of pitting men and women
against each other oh my God here she
goes again she just wants to be heard or
oh my God here he goes again he just
wants to freaking fix it it's like
instead of complaining find a strategy
and a method that allows you to
communicate in a better moment or in
moments like that better and so yes
women want to feel seen but I do
understand why you say seen and holding
space isn't necessarily one for one
there is nuances there as well agreed
um emotionally strong
and I'll actually change that to
stoic to an extent cuz sometimes you're
too stoic and I've said that to you
where it's like I don't feel like
there's any feeling or emotion radiating
off you just feel like you're a wo and
you're just a robot and you just say the
word that's so sexy keep talking like
that tell me more I feel
seen oh my God you're so funny um but I
don't like that feels like I'm talking
to a shark like you said and so you want
someone that's emotionally stoked so for
instance when I'm emotional I want you
to be able to hold space and be able to
not then get emotional because now if
both of us are emotional it won't like I
almost need that stability but when
you're too stoic and you don't show
emotion I don't feel seen I don't feel
like I can communicate with you and so
I'm always you know trying to find those
words to be like I I need you to show
your feelings right now I need you to
express yourself because I don't feel
like um we're communicating the way that
makes me feel connected to you and the
way that makes me feel connected to you
is to hear how you're feeling now if you
a big ball and mess all the time and you
weren't working to overcome it because
there were going to be moments that of
course you're going to be emotionally
weak and if you just sat in that that
isn't attractive just licking your
wounds over and over and over again but
I assume it's not attractive on the
other side either so as a woman I don't
want to do that and as a man I don't
think that's Heth either so you don't
want someone just staying in their
emotion without actually trying to
navigate it again not saying everyone's
perfect there's going to be a million
reasons that you're going to have to
stay there for a month you know or
you're working on it and you keep
stumbling and you keep going backwards
like I have tremendous compassion and
understanding for all of that but are
you doing something about it so even
with the emotionally stoic there is that
line um and then one more thing there
was an episode in Sex in the City that I
feel so seen when I I told you that's
how I
feel sometimes when I feel hard Dum by
or I feel like unjust or someone's
trying to disrespect me that's where I
get triggered now when you're sitting
there going no it's fine baby it's fine
there's a part of me's like I want you
in all honesty to [ __ ] posture right
now and I want you to defend me and I
want you to have my back and I want you
to feel as I feel right now unjust I
want you to feel freaking unjust now
look that won't serve us if especially
when we run a business but the truth is
in that moment I feel like if you do
that I actually do feel seen now now
we've had to navigate this and there's a
scene in Sex in the City where um Carrie
gets really annoyed about her neighbor
and she gets really annoyed and her
boyfriend Aiden just doesn't un like he
doesn't understand he doesn't see her he
doesn't get where she's coming from and
so over and over again she's really
upset and he just not dismisses her but
doesn't match at or at least show that
he's seen her then eventually it gets to
the point where [ __ ] hits the fan and he
comes in and he's [ __ ] furious and
immediately she goes yes thank you and
what does she do she jumps in his arms
and she kisses
him that's how a woman feels when you
feel unjust and the guy matches you now
I've got two parts of me the emotional
side that I really want this but the act
the actually completely emotionally
sober side of me knows it's not healthy
so going back to the emotional stoic
thing that you said is that I want you
to be emotionally stoic I want you to be
able to be there for me when I don't
have that emotional stoicness in
myself but if you go to robot mode women
won't appreciate it they won't feel seen
and if you don't try and open yourself
up to hearing her and hearing why she
feels like that she won't be able to
feel connected to
you and so that's how I feel about the
emotion historicist so I'm gonna add a
splash of insync emotional instability
is that sound about right yes nice okay
hey at least we know uh
leadership for me yes for women it's
never going to be 100% but I'm talking I
averages so here's the truth again I
almost feel like I always have to caveat
it because I'm saying it for if you
think this is wrong just
say no I actually think women do want
leadership in a guy so what's the
problem because I don't want women to
feel like they can't
lead but I think if people go to their
truth most women do can I make a slight
adjustment that I think will nail it
yeah please uh default leadership with
enough self-awareness to know when his
woman is the right person to lead and he
has no problem being like yeah this
makes sense for you to lead in this boom
absolutely I love it that's a th% true
and there's one thing actually where I
actually wrote this post and I was
saying the things people must ask before
they commit in a relationship and the
very first thing number one is who leads
who
follows and as I wrote I was like oh my
God I'm going to get so much hate people
are really going to [ __ ] hate that I
said this but it's true
and once you realize that that's true
then you can decide do you want to lead
or do you follow but here's the other
cavat if you're female and you want to
lead again I support that but just know
what that actually looks like all the
way to every little thing that you
interact with with them so I interviewed
this woman I don't want to say her name
cuz I don't want to blast her but I
interview this very powerful woman super
freaking strong very successful
beautiful
in probably her mid
40s very career oriented was married
very abusive relationship she left she
built her confidence and now she's on
her own she's telling me about this
boyfriend of hers and he's like 10 years
younger than her and she's like and I
love it I went up to him I chatted him
up in a bar and I'm like again being
fulfill my like [ __ ] yeah if that's what
you want I love it like good on you for
having the confidence to go and do that
and so she's telling me the story about
how she approaches him she you know like
chats him up she he moves in with her
she's the one that has is the bread
winner so she's saying this very
empowering love it great about 40
minutes into the interview we're talking
about something andse she's like yeah
and I can't bloody believe he doesn't
ever like make an effort he doesn't ever
treat me to anything he doesn't um think
about organizing our vacations and so
she's listing all these things that are
absolutely leadership things to do and
so I was like well I've got a question
for you do you think that that becomes
the setup you set the relationship up
for having a dynamic where you lead
there's nothing wrong with that but you
then can't change the direction or that
order without actually then discussing
like hey I know that I was the one that
came on to you I know that I take over
in this relationship as the leader but
actually right now I want you to if you
don't have that discussion why would he
take the lead and so that's also the
other thing that I just want to urge
anyone listen is that once you de side
actually play that out of what it looks
like and then don't just then take
change your pitch it's like people who
say I really want a guy that's a very
successful right like they say again I
want someone like Tom okay but are you
okay with the lifestyle it brings you
kind of come in Full Circle and most
people aren't okay with the actual
reality of what that brings so when it
comes to leadership if you want to lead
and you're a female listening to this
right now I applaud you but just make
sure you have um you've taken the
blinders off and know what that actually
means all the way through all the way
through to the end of the relationship
to maybe hopefully you're with each
other for the rest of your life what
does that look like on your death bed
play that out are you okay with that yes
or no I think that is a damn fine list
in the end is we got some of the more
nuanced stuff are there some paths for a
woman that are better at yielding a an
outcome that will lead her to
fulfillment than others it depends what
you mean by fulfillment like anything
I'm trying to stick with your definition
of fulfillment which you used earlier
which is a little looser than mine uh
but a life that she will be proud of
that is that she'll feel good about
herself when she's by herself and will
be in alignment with the evolutionary
drivers in her brain yeah no there's no
directional uh
difference all paths are equally valid
yes this is part of what I struggle with
because so many people including women
think that there is a better path or a
we should do this and it's changing
right we got
together 23 years ago we've been married
for 21 and we've seen the way the world
is changing we've seen the way that
dating has changing and what people are
saying about online dating and you know
I literally I can sit there with a group
of guys in this company Who I Really
respect and really adore and there's a
couple of guys that I would even say
like I really truly love in this company
and I sit with them and they talk to me
about the problems in the dating world
and what women are doing wrong and they
say to me women Lisa you don't
understand um we go on date and it feels
like they're just using me for my money
and so now I'm less reluctant to pay for
dinner because it just feels like
they're just trying to get a free meal
and these are guys that I know so I know
that they're not trying to scam the
system I know that they're very
authentic in saying that and then I have
a group of my homies my females who are
like Lisa there's no good guys out there
I go on a day and he looks at me to pay
or you know I go on a DAT and he doesn't
even want to pick me up he like wants to
meet me there and like there's all these
things that then I also hear women are
complaining about and there's no right
or wrong it's just these are truths and
knowing these are truths if I've got the
two people saying the same thing I'm
like you guys shouldn't need to date
because you're both complaining about
the same thing the problem is people are
just staying in the complaint and not
actually doing anything about it or
Shifting the way that they think and
that they show up in order to do
something differently so a woman for
instance um one of my good friends we
had this whole discussion and she said
Lisa was going out on this date with a
guy and just like you cuz I am still old
school I believe in Chivalry so she was
like you know I believe in Chivalry too
and so we go in a DAT and the bill comes
and he just looks at me and she was just
honest she's
like I I'm a woman who likes to be you
know treated well on the first date and
I I expect you to pay and his response
was like oh my God thank God he was like
I just went on a day last week and I
went to pay and the woman almost bit my
head off that I was going to pay because
she was saying I can pay for myself so I
do understand the problems guys are
having where they're getting confused on
the messaging that women are giving but
also the women are also getting those
mixed messages where they're like men
are saying that women don't want
chivalry here I am looking for chivalry
and they don't give it to me so it's
like people are speaking different
languages instead of kind of coming
together or just saying what is it the
thing that I want what is it that you
want how can we start to talk in a
healthy manner in order to get to the
goal that we're both looking for which
apparently is from what I hear right
they want healthy loving
relationships so be in my opinion how do
we solve this problem instead of how do
we come at each other with this problem
okay so you said that all paths are
equally valid I would like to um
see if I can get you to reconsider that
stance because you don't believe it I
don't believe it but you walk me through
maybe I'm crazy but let me paint a path
that is some small percentage but it's
it's the path that everyone points at
when they want to have the argument
about the derangement of culture and in
fact I'm going to plant an idea I want
you to start thinking about as I think
through this something is deranging
culture if you agree with me on that I
want to know what like what the essence
of it is but here is a path that I I
think is very um in terms of the
symptoms shows a lot of the symptoms of
a culture that is deranged so uh you get
male style sex in their 20s male style
yeah um one night stands don't get in
your
feels uh I'm just here to Tinder and
then I'm out and uh yeah I've got a high
body count and I've had a lot of fun and
you know what's it to you uh and then
you get um only founds models so they
are recognizing that uh the male gaze is
monetizable and that men are feeling
lonely men want special access to
females in a sexual context that they
can sell that uh there was a woman that
made like 10,000 pounds um I can't
remember her name but selling her
bathwater and some of her um stands I
don't know what else to call them uh
drank the bath water when they got yeah
I mean just like crazy crazy crazy stuff
so uh you also have the sugar baby
phenomenon so um you probably won't know
who these are but there's a show called
Fresh and Fit I think it was sneo Drew
can you back me up on this uh that got a
sex worker pregnant there's a lot of
controversy around whether she was
actually an only fan model or a
prostitute whether he knew and all this
but anyway uh he met her on a sugar baby
site so it's women that are looking to
be quidd proquo maybe you pay a little
bit of my rent Maybe you pay my car
insurance maybe you buy me a car
whatever they come up with different
Arrangements um all of that being not
only a thing because of course there
have always been relationships like this
but that only fans is celebrated like oh
you have an only fans account you're
making how much money like wow that's
amazing uh and certainly you'll get
again small subset I am certainly not
saying that this is common but it's
common enough that it's really the
lightning rod for the culture War around
this that it is so
prominent strikes me as like every alarm
Bell people have should be going off and
when I see symptoms I want to know um
what's the underlying cost but first I
just want to say now having thought that
that's a path hey ladies here's what you
should do have sex like a man because
it's super fun get yours no reason to be
in your Fields by the way men are so
easy to manipulate
you can hire a team of guys to write
back and forth with the guys as if
they're you uh you can make I mean some
of these people make millions of dollars
a year some of them at least in the
beginning make millions of dollars a
month I mean it's like there's real
money to be had of course the vast
majority of them make virtually nothing
and they put nudes of themselves out
there for all repercussion and no
Advantage but still that strikes me as a
terrible path that I just don't think
you thought about and would of course
warn people away but if you would say no
no no like that's only fans specifically
yeah the male style sex uh and somehow
monetized the sexual desperation of
males whether as a sugar baby or only
fans model okay so two things there um
when there's a demand there's going to
be the supply so only fans wouldn't
exist if guys weren't going on there and
paying for it so it's like what came
first the chicken or the egg which which
is the EG care well that's the point
like I don't just male desire came first
right so male desire came first they
weren't getting fulfilled so only fans
spun up women were just like oh is this
an opportunity for me to make money I I
don't have I literally don't have any
judgment on them I'm like because
there's the demand someone came up with
a supply so you can't really blame the
women for going on only fans when guys
are willing to pay for it so that's
number one number two in regards to the
have as much sex as you want I do agree
have as much sex as you want but you
can't fight biology and biology says
that women secrete oxytocin and so when
you uh sleep with a guy or a woman um
you secrete oxytocin so over time the
majority of women don't just keep
sleeping around keep sleeping around
keep sleeping around for the rest of
their
lives so I go okay I understand biology
we actually strive for connection if if
you're looking for connection don't go
and have wine night
stands if you go and have a wine night
stand no the dangers right there's STDs
out there there's dangers as a woman you
think about the threat if you go to a
guy's apartment like all of that is real
so I don't blanketly say go you go out
and have as much sex as you like [ __ ]
the guys it's like no actually look at
what are all the possibilities and
dangers that come with this and I
freaking hate that you guys say about
body count hate I should be able to give
my body away or not give it away but I
should be able to share with whoever I
freaking like now even though I feel
like that and no one can dictate or
should dictate how many guys I've slept
with I just go is it fact actually do
you really care about how many people
I've slept with the most guys care about
how many guys I've slept with if the
answer is yes while I don't think it's
fair fair doesn't really play into it
and so I just go if I sleep with a 100
guys that's on me if that makes me happy
[ __ ] yes like I'm not here to shame any
woman but there's always a but but know
that if you sleep with a 100 guys is
that going to narrow your pool of guys
maybe and if the oh yes if the answer is
yes how do you feel about that do you
you may want to try and change it but I
don't know if you can change it so now
it's in your
control and so again going back to she
shouldn't have big body count why why
why is that so important to you is it an
ego thing are you worried that they've
seen so many penises that they're going
to judge yours and think it's small why
are you actually worried about the fact
that they've got so many are you afraid
that you can't live up to being in bed
with her and she's experienced amazing
things instead of feeling insecure about
it again I had say this with compassion
but instead of saying being insecure
about it get good get freaking amazing
at making a woman orgasm so now if she's
been with 100 guys what if you're the
best she's ever been with [ __ ] that's a
big wow [ __ ] she's been with 100 and I'm
the [ __ ] best yeah buddy like that
when I met you you were like I watch sex
in the city and I read we didn't have
the internet at the time so you like I
watch sex in the city and I read Cosmo
and you're like I know how to work that
[ __ ] and so I was like [ __ ] respect
like you did the homework you didn't
just sit back and go yeah I'm the best
you actually put working to make sure
that you were going to be amazing and so
you can feel defenseless you can feel
like the victim which again I don't want
people to feel I feel really badly that
guys are feeling like that and I feel
really badly that women and now have to
think twice about if I want to just have
a one night stand because I just want to
have fun I feel bad that women have to
second uh guess them themselves or
whether that's going to have
repercussions down the road but those
are all truths and now again what are
you going to do about it take action I'm
so action oriented that if I don't like
something about myself take action and
change it if I don't have confidence and
I've got insecurities take action and
change it what are you going to do about
it and I don't feel powerful personally
I don't feel powerful if I get in the
submissive situation or in the victim
mentality I feel powerful taking action
so if I say I don't like something about
myself in then trying to Pivot and get
to my goal and change and build that
skill set and get better now I feel
powerful even if I'm not there yet but I
understand that it actually makes you
feel
powerless in that moment where you can't
do anything about it so I just urge
people to flip the way they think take
action so that they're not sitting there
worried how many women have they slept
with or sorry how many men have they
slept with if you don't like that there
are only fans out there because people
people are charging then don't use
it if you feel like you want connection
and you don't know how to get it I
understand that I have
compassion try to figure it out go on
the Journey of figuring out how you can
be with a woman or be with somebody that
is worthy of you become the person that
you're worthy of being with like we all
say I want this person but are you the
person that is worthy of getting that
person and so the more you lean into
only fans the more now you're not taking
action on building your
it um a bad look on me if I was like I
don't want you to post Nudes on only
fans I would ask you why I wouldn't say
it was a bad look but I would dig deeper
I would say okay why would you be
surprised let me ask you I I will
certainly answer but first would you
expect me to be like oh yeah I don't
mind no I think you would have a problem
with it why do you think I would have a
problem with it
because I am showing my body to other
people
people and I think you specifically my
husband Tom Bilu right okay um I think
you feel like that's yours to see and
protect I don't you you're not jealous
person so that's why I don't go to oh
you're jealous other people other guys
are going to draw over my photo so it's
the only thing that I can go
to yeah uh I think that it is it's a
very deep and complicated thing there is
a sense of that's mine now I'm speaking
now
abstractly uh because that would be less
Troublesome for me but I think that that
will be a big thing for um a lot of guys
the some of the complexity around that
specifically is that's very exploitable
and I would not want that there is
something um even if someone were
generating AI imagery of your body I
would not like that for that same reason
there's it's that's super intimate and
sharing that I think is a really high
risk um all right so but setting aside
my answer because I I want to keep
mapping out how you think about this so
um as I try to predict what you're about
to say I find that my prediction engine
on this topic is completely broken and
so as I ask myself okay what I'm
obviously unored from the way that you
think about this uh did you think I
would be against only
yes and I I think by the end of this
conversation I will maybe be able to
yeah I'm not I'm not setting out to
convince you right now but I I think
just in nailing down some of the things
I'm about to ask you you might go okay
yeah I really hadn't thought about some
of the KnockOn effects yet but maybe I
will find that the opposite is true um
what is your North Star as you think
about advising women on CU remember I'm
I'm still anchored around there are a
woman comes to you from for advice there
are a lot of paths that she can pursue I
have a feeling that what we're going
through right now in culture is people
realizing we tried one path and that has
not yielded the outcomes that we wanted
uh and so people are I think culture is
while somewhat blindly is going to be
searching for A New Path to point men
and women down uh because the current
path has has completely deranged culture
I believe um so for me to update my
prediction engine I need to know what
your Northstar is in Life or when when
giving somebody advice on what path to
go down in life your North Star is I
would say what do you want like when
you're 80 years old what do you want
your life to look like and that then
predicts and in um and gives you the
blueprint of what you now need to do so
when I'm 80 and there's no bad Vision to
have when you're 80 bad Vision so
hey Lisa um yeah I've thought about when
I'm 80 and I want to be in ill health um
I want to be effectively dying of
syphilis uh I want to make sure that I'm
completely alone that even my cats won't
be near me uh I want to be on the Dole
from the government and just being taken
care of I want to die a nice slow
painful death you'd be like okay word
let's talk about how you get there no no
very good point um no I would say you're
delusional to to think that's going to
bring you happiness and fulfillment
again okay so is happiness and
fulfillment the Northstar yes but
happiness again isn't it's not concrete
it will e and flow and so are you living
every day in building those moments of
your
happiness so for me it is I feel very
good about myself when I built my
confidence so I can tackle anything that
I'm terrible at insecure over because if
I do it enough I know that I will get
good enough to be confident and so the
path of growing my skill set in order to
build my confidence is actually very
fulfilling for
me so uh our
growth and confidence steps on the way
to the Northstar of fulfillment yes
that's a great way of putting it okay so
fulfillment is your
Northstar yes so you're 80 and person
who's asking me what path I should walk
in life all I know is we want to be 80
as a proxy for old uh and saying I did
hard things I pushed through there were
UPS there were downs but through it all
I lived in a way that fulfilled me
correct okay now I need a definition for
fulfillment what what is the recipe in
fact not a definition a recipe what are
the things in the abstract that one can
do that will as close to assuredly as
possible lead to
fulfillment I work hard to
build skill sets that allow
me to serve me my goals and the people I
care
about okay so basically the impact
Theory Twist on yes fulfillment yes okay
so working hard to build skills that um
are good for you and others correct yes
okay
uh that makes a lot of sense but now I'm
going to take you back so knowing that
fulfillment is the North Star and that
the recipe for fulfillment is hard work
to build skills that allow you to serve
yourself and others how on Earth is a
life of male style sex for women an only
fans account and becoming a sugar baby
um how is that working hard to build a
set of skills that serve not only you
but others like paint the path cuz maybe
there is one through all of that and I
just have a ton of biases that make me
not see it all right so um let's deal
with the only fans first and then we're
going to the Sugar Baby thing so only
fans for me is like I need to know more
about the person's story so for instance
let's say I'm doing only fans so that I
can actually pay for my education so
that I can then go and build impact
Theory all right now build starting only
fans actually is part of my part of
fulfillment it's my mechanism on which
I'm funded
the thing that I actually want to
do and so that is a very clear easy way
of saying it can Poss it can absolutely
do
that and what was the second part of
your question uh you were going to make
the connection for me between how I walk
the path of male style sex having an
only fans account or being a sugar baby
exploiting male sexual
desperation uh I don't like the idea of
exploiting male desperation though that
really doesn't hit me well do you not
think that's what only fans is I'm sure
so I don't want to be naive of course
I'm sure people absolutely right where
it's like they see some things like oh
here's a weakness let me go and use that
to my advantage that doesn't sit well
with me at all I don't like that but
there's I think that happens in pretty
much any industry so let's even choose
our
industry we very much are very authentic
and actually wanted to help people we
know a lot of people in this business
that also have exactly the same heart
and they're working hard in order to
really help people but we also know
people that see the dollar signs and
they're doing it purely to make the
money and what they're doing is they're
actually using people's insecurities
people's uh um fixed mindset or the the
idea that people really want to grow as
a mechanism for them to make money so I
think any industry has that and only
fans is highlighted because it is
against men
that is why I think this has become such
a big thing where the red pill Community
are now really speaking out about it and
again I have compassion because I don't
think that's nice that's not kind I'm
somebody who always tries to greet
people and help people not make them
feel badly but I don't want to pretend
like oh only fans is the only industry
that does that absolutely not we women
get that all the time they exploit the
fact that we want to feel beautiful so
they sell us all this creams and stuff
that don't bloody
work but they exploit the idea that
women want to feel
beautiful so it the beauty industry is
the same so this every industry I could
literally one after another probably
peel apart where they actually exploit
the
user and so I'm not saying that only
fans doesn't have that but also there
might be people out there that are
paying for their kids college let's say
it's a single mom where the guy has been
verbally abusive physically abusive and
they take their kid out of that marriage
but now they don't have a house they
don't have a career because maybe they
decided they were the stay-at-home
parent and the guy has manipulated them
hidden the money like all of this [ __ ]
happens and so they end up with a kid
and not even a roof over their head for
that mother to be able to survive to
have a house to put a roof over their
child's head if their first step is only
fans cuz that's their way of trying to
get out [ __ ] yes I support that because
it's not done in a manipulative way it's
not done to be like I'm I see that guy
over there he's desperate so I'm going
to mark it to him it's a very different
intention around
it so that's why I don't think only fans
is terrible oh my no there's going to be
good and there's
bad um now the other one that you said
is the sugar baby can you explain what
that is uh so a sugar daddy is somebody
sugar daddy sugar baby well sugar baby
is the woman who has a sugar daddy all
right so how many old Rich guys have you
seen marry young beautiful women it's
very common right kind of becomes a bit
of a joke we used to live in an area
where we would go to that coffee shop
and it was literally all where like all
old rock stars went to die and they and
they always had like 20-year-old women
on their arm and the truth is both of
them are getting something out of
it the guy is getting something out of
it because let's face it if he wasn't
wealthy do you think he could get that
woman and the woman is getting something
out of it because you think that if she
wasn't beautiful she'd get the rich guy
now of course again I'm being very
generic here so of course there are
moments that there's going to be
authentic love I don't want to paint a
just a brush over everything but on
average let's just be honest both
parties get something out of it so I
have zero judgment if you're a guy who
has a lot of wealth and you want a young
woman like when I think about true love
right cuz that's my heart true love
healthy relationships I can't see that
work I can't see anyone meeting on only
fans and their relationship I can't see
it work maybe it can I hope like you
know I try to live in a like positive
world so maybe there are places that you
can actually find true love I just don't
think that will exist in those
Dynamics but if you know that true love
isn't your North Star and maybe right
now you're the guy that's wealthy and
you just want you're like fed up and you
just want a young woman who just looks
pretty and doesn't say anything and so
you decide to throw your money around
and splash out on her and she's very
reciprocating who am I to judge but then
vice versa and I actually find that a
lot of women will judge the younger
women for going after the wealthy guy
and I'm just like I'm not in her world I
don't know why she may be going after
this wealthy guy and as long as it's not
evil on either way as long as there's no
like serious manipulation where they
don't know what's happening and they're
trying to manipulate and steal money and
like that like why are we judging these
relationships if they're right for them
listening to you map this out is really
interesting so uh I will get to
answering that question but first I want
to make sure that I mile marker some of
this and that I'm actually understanding
what you're saying uh so it sounds like
you're saying it doesn't so much matter
what you do it matters how you do it and
if you are doing only fans with honor
and integrity
that then it's fine uh if everybody in
the sugar daddy sugar baby relationship
is on the up and up and everybody knows
what's up then all is going to be well
uh yeah with no lies no trickery then
yeah yeah um it's interesting because so
understood something tickles me that
there's still a problem there uh and
this goes back to why I think religion
is such a good stand in for hey here is
ancient wisdom on how to align yourself
with um what Mother Nature wants you to
do I have a feeling that the body is
considered sacred and only to be shared
in the
diad because of the
evolutionary high risk of sex for women
getting pregnant with the wrong child
one just child birth often killed the
woman I
mean the the rates of mortality in child
birth used to be astronomically High I
don't know how high but I'm going to
guess in like the 10 to 15% range like
it it would have been very appreciable
uh in a prehistoric period so we would
be hardwired to be very women are very
koi and Cy about sex they don't pursue a
male strategy for I think a very wise
evolutionary reason for men the reason
that they care which is one of the
questions you asked me just from an
evolutionary lens that one is very
self-evident you need to be certain of
paternity and the only way to be certain
of paternity since you can't really know
uh is to be the only one that has access
to the woman uh in a joint thing of you
do some [ __ ] blocking quite frankly and
then she also is loyal and so you get
that Dynamic of like he's protective
he's a little bit jealous and she is I
wouldn't want to I want to be with you
and I want to have access to these
resources none of this is perfect you
and I have talked about this many times
the size of the male testicles tell you
that we're in the middle we're not
completely monogamous and uh we are also
not just wildly polygynous so uh we do
tend to settle into relatively stable
pair bonds I have a feeling that while I
get what you're saying about we don't
want to be judgmental because we don't
know somebody's circumstance and I would
much rather see a woman be able to have
an only fans account then our kids go
hungry a th% and quite frankly because
when you get into what is my
intellectual
framework uh I think that freedom is a
really big thing and one of the things I
was mapping out as you were talking is
optionality seems very important to your
worldview and so you don't want to tell
people what they can and can't do but
you've said a thousand times in this
interview which you will get clipped out
of context so I feel for you already uh
but you've been very clear clear that
hey people need to face the reality
these are trade-offs and you can sleep
with 100 guys but there going to be
consequences but hey I'm not here to
tell you how to live your life I just
really want you to open your eyes and be
honest about you have to assess all of
this including a lot of guys are going
to care including huge risk of STDs
including you're probably putting
yourself in a situation where the risk
of sexual violence goes up and on and on
and and I mean not even to speak to the
emotional vulnerability that women have
during sex that men don't and there's a
big discrepancy there that women can get
caught off guard by a lot okay so um I'm
beginning to
understand where you're coming from but
like I said I think there are
evolutionary reasons why that will leave
the person feeling badly about
themselves when they're by themselves I
think I have not gone deeply enough in
this to really say that I have high high
conviction but pretty high intuitively
for sure that anybody that
any woman I feel much more strongly
saying that any woman that exploits
their body will have a profound sense of
disease I don't mean modeling but any
woman that like really exploits what
would spill into the sacred side of like
that's your body it's a temple I think
there will be some algorithmic problems
I think well I think longterm and on a
big Spectrum yes but there are some
women that have found their free freedom
from confidence with confidence and
stuff by showing their body can you
define how far you mean showing their
body oh yeah so that's actually
interesting so like we just went to
Miami there were women in the smallest
bikinis you like it's like a mini
triangle and it's like a g like
literally you see every part of their
body except like the main parts like
tiny tiny little bits of fabric um
they're like owning their sexuality and
they seem confident and they seem happy
and they seem like it's not like they're
um evil sexual right it's like they seem
like genuinely embodying the happiness
of owning who they are and their
sexuality in their body so there is I
don't think that every woman feels like
it's this exploiting
thing but it all depends on how you're
doing it why you're doing it and if you
feel forced to do it if you're doing it
because you don't have any other means
of Revenue right like that can be a
problem I think um so there's so many
different reasons but I don't
necessarily agree 100% that all women
will find it um in that manner yeah it's
interesting so you're touching on
another thing that I think is very real
uh that is very much outside the scope
of what we're talking about right now
but women like to be the center of
sexual
attention uh so yes going to a party a
women liking to show off her body but I
have an intuition that something breaks
when they are monetizing it that I think
a woman at a party who chose to be there
uh decides how much she wants to be Aug
feels very differently than somebody
working at a strip club where she has to
let somebody touch her more than she
would like because she needs the tips
and that's how she's making money
they're just again I have an intuitive
thing I'm not explored that a lot but I
have a feeling going back to just the
overly
simplistic uh Evolution does not want
you to do that because of the high-risk
situation that you're putting yourself
into uh that it's going to trigger
things in guys in terms of paternity I
mean there's just all kinds of
complexities around that again I'm
giving a very simplistic version of that
uh but okay so going back to the core
question which is are some paths better
than others and some worse and I think
any time that you have a specific aim
there are going to be things that are
better and worse now I've given a
definition for what I think makes
something better efficiency of moving
towards something that uplifts you and
others um I don't know if we nailed down
so optionality is a big thing for you so
it might be the thing that leaves open
the most options um and is very honest
about the consequences of anything that
you choose so I think a lot of your
answers are going to sound something
like hey I want you to do what makes you
happy but you need to be really
thoughtful about does this actually add
up to fulfillment am I closing doors
that I might not want to
close since you would advise them to
deal with the world the way that it is
not the way that you wish it were you're
going to be talking about um hey some
guys aren't going to like this so
they're shut doors so go ahead oh um it
just actually reminds me of the
marshmallow test so know that right now
yeah you got one marshmallow in front of
you and maybe you're
hungry but if you don't eat that
marshmallow and you stay hungry a little
longer you get the two marshmallows down
the road so in case people don't know
the study they probably do because
they've watched you but just in case
they put one marshmallow in front of
they brought these kids in they did the
study they put one marshmallow in front
of the kit they said okay I'm going to
leave the room when I come back if you
don't eat the marshmallow I'm going to
give you two marshmallows and the kids
that didn't eat the marshmallow and
sacrific that momentary happiness for
future gains they followed them for like
30 years and over the 30 years they
realized that those were the most
successful people so the people that are
willing to make that momentary sacrifice
for that long-term gain is at least a
part of success so whenever we're
talking about things like this are I
urge people to ask themselves are they
taking action for this momentary
satisfaction because it may not serve
your long-term goal or your long-term
success so just be aware of that thing
that if you eat the marshmallow now
you're not going to get too later and
now what life do you want so for me I'm
always very um I've uh adapted and grown
and really built my skill set to be the
person that doesn't eat the first
marshmallow so I am more than happy to
sacrifice my momentary happiness for the
long long term gain and so if we're
talking about let's say sex and you're
like I love sex and I love having
orgasms and I find this so
satisfactory but if I sleep with a 100
guys let me just be honest even though I
don't actually like the idea because I
think if women want to sleep with 100
guys go ham homie like do you but based
on the things that you're saying and
that other people have said I take that
as fact so if you know that if you sleep
with 100 guys now that it can have
detrimental effects to you finding
someone longterm just know that and now
go what are the things I'm willing to
trade is it right now or is it in the
future okay uh the question I really
want to get to you is how do you feel
about the idea of uh I have a prediction
that culture is going to swing in the
direction where they say hey ladies the
thing that um no one wants you to dim
your light in fact we want to see you
Flex as absolutely hard as you can but
there really are some paths that are
better than others meaning they will
lead you to fulfillment uh that's more
in align with a lot of them are going to
say God if God is just an echo of
biology which I think it is because it's
a cultural layer um that you want to go
build up your skill set in an arena
that feeds the family reflects well on
the family I'm not quite sure the right
phrase to put it but that uh is not
going to challenge your husband so it's
in different directions so you're
getting as strong as humanly possible in
a direction he's not going to spend his
time uh that brings value to the family
so becoming a teacher homeschooling your
kids being super mom whatever uh so Flex
hard become the best you but do it
within the familyfriendly path how would
you feel if that becomes the dominant
message I mean I would be
saddened by that because now we're going
back to where I was back in
2010 where it's if you don't follow that
path you start to get the Judgment that
judgment starts to force you to act in a
certain way because you want to be liked
you want to have approval you want to
fit in with the crowd you want to get
that validation and so now you're back
to women not necessarily uh having the
life that they actually want they're
doing it because they feel like they
should or the Judgment now is just too
much they don't feel like they have the
confidence to break out of that we agree
that cultures
deranged in the way that you answer that
question it does not seem like you
believe that women going into careers
just to make it easy um is the root
cause of the derangement or you believe
that it is at least part of the cause of
the derangement but the benefits
outweigh the negatives which of those is
true the women are the cuse of the
derangement women going into careers and
absolutely smashing it just to I'm not
blaming them I'm just saying there is a
knock on effect do you know what mgtow
is nice uh men going their own way but
it's something like uh 40% of men
ages 34 to 50 are single and not seeking
a relationship so they've said this is
all [ __ ] you have to work work twice
as hard to get a woman that is four
times worse than your grandma so your
grandpa had a farm he just did his thing
he was not a spectacular businessman he
was not making $5 million a year he did
not drive a Lamborghini he worked a farm
and Grandma was rad and so he got this
amazing woman without having to hit
these ridiculous standards because
grandma wasn't out in the workforce so
when Grandma is making $175,000 a year
it completely deranges culture MH not
because she's a bad person we all get
why she wanted to do that but you have a
very meaningful percentage of men um
that have just said I'm not even going
to pursue a relationship now ask
yourself why did women want to go in the
workforce from in in the first place why
do you think that became a thing I've
really thought about this and I go back
to a story that that my grandmother in
Cyprus said to me I got married we got
married and I took you to Cyprus to meet
my grandmother she's like 4 foot s or
something tiny tiny woman and she pulled
me aside so she just met you I just got
married and she thinks she's going to
give me the words of wisdom and give me
the keys to her relationship because
she'd been married to my grandfather
basically since she was like 17 or
something right arranged marriage Greek
Orthodox things like that and she pulled
me a and she said now look if Tom ever
hits you don't worry maybe you deserved
it now when you think about that message
it's like it's funny but if you actually
think about that message that's
heartbreaking so she had the idea in the
mindset because of her culture because
of her surroundings because of how she
was brought up that as a woman you have
to just Embrace that maybe your husband
hits you that's
heartbreaking so when you think about
why do you think women wanted equality
why do you think women wanted to go to
the workforce so much of it was for so
long we didn't have our own money for so
long when you were married what was it
like in the 50s it wasn't even that long
ago if you divorced your husband he got
the
children so women don't have their own
finances to be able to leave
relationships people didn't leave
unhealthy relationships like that
because they would lose their
children or or the stories also are
you've been married for 30 years you
give yourself over you are that stayhome
wife you do nurture the husband you take
care of the kids you take care of the
house you go to all those you know like
school plays you bake all the cookies
and now when you get into your 40s and
50s your partner who's been on the
workforce goes and earns more and more
money and for some reason he decides I
want someone
younger you now don't have the money you
don't have the finances you've spent
your whole life giving it over to the
family only for the guy to leave you and
you have nothing to nothing except for
your children you have no money to show
for
it so when we talk about why women go
into the first Workforce really owning
their lives like we really need to peel
apart why we got there in the first
place how we got there in the first
place and have we pivoted too much I
personally don't think so in the sense
of giving women the confidence or the
space to be able to be who they are but
I understand it's having a knock on
effect so I don't want to ignore that
but let's not just say women and now
causing the problem because they're
going into the
workforce my mom my dad my mom and dad
got divorced when I was seven my mom
went back into the workforce after being
at home for 15 years or you know 11
years so then she goes into the
workforce because she's already
experienced divorce and now she meets
someone else
well is she going to give up her career
again she's already been there she saw
how that played out so it's super
important that I that we talk about the
realities around this sort of thing
instead of just blanket saying women
were the cause because now they want to
go out and work and they want to earn
$150,000 like it's it's so much bigger
and more complex than that that it has
now become very biting very extreme um
and we're not talking about the mess in
the middle that I think is actually the
most important thing we need to talk
about I have now met a ton of the
world's most accomplished people and
while intelligence definitely matters
what sets them apart isn't their IQ it's
that they understand that there is a
system to success that exact system the
one I've seen countless successful
people deploy to tremendous effect is
exactly what my wife Lisa Bilu detailed
out in her best-selling book radical
confidence she details what successful
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now what's the mess in the middle this
whole stuff of why women are going to
the workforce in the first place that
they feel trapped that they want to be
able to have their own money so that
they can decide is this person right for
me instead of falling into a trap of you
should get married the man should
provide for you and then he goes and
leaves you or he abuses you too many
women babe too many women have been
through that I've heard having a show
called women impa I've seen over and
over and over how many women have been
in that situation and so I cannot be
that person that encourages people to
just not even just I don't want to say
that to be the stay-at-home wife without
contemplating and processing what that
means what that looks like and again
going back to it was just in the 50s
that men would get the rights to the
children I'm not sure how much uh I I
don't know that I would double down on
that cuz the now are so Pro female that
they are now a sure but I'm just saying
think about how nothing changes
overnight well I mean you don't have to
go back very far when women couldn't
have a bank account so it's very easy to
show that women had a very reasonable
thing to get out from under you just
keep using the kids as the thing uh and
but that's a big thing I don't know that
one is super common well I I mean it is
so I just interviewed Melby Scary Spice
she was married and because of the
different laws in England and America
she um based on the fact that she tried
to commit
suicide and she had done some sex types
with her husband he basically threatened
her and he said if you leave me I'm
going to um um release all these sex
videos and you don't have any rights
because she was born in America so you
can't take her away from me you can't
have her leave the country so even
though she was trying to get away from
her abusive husband she couldn't leave
the country because of the different
laws this happened like a few years ago
this was like 5 years ago or something
so there's complexity to laws that a
mother has to consider when she's
talking about leaving a potentially
abusive relationship and so I'm not
saying like this is every woman but
these are the complications that women
absolutely think through when they're
thinking about leaving a guy when they
think about their career if they've
already been stung I mean not to go down
this rabbit hole but he ended up BAS
Bally stealing all her money she had
made something like $84 million in her
career as a Spice Girl and over time she
was with him for 10 years and over time
he manipulated and um really gaslit her
and he would say things like you know
you're really busy let me let me handle
the bank account babe you're really busy
over you know you're not really good
with money let me handle money and over
time he started to steal from her where
she got to the point where she had less
than $1,000 in her bank account I'm not
saying this is just women I understand
that guys get manipulated too but these
are the cases I hear over and over and
over and over again so I hope you can
understand that when I sit here and you
ask me those questions it is imperative
that I voice the issues that I have
heard that women really struggle with
and why I cannot say do not go and get a
career because I understand the power
that it can give a woman to not succumb
to this toxicity that can happen so what
I hear you saying because you're using
contemporary stories is that when women
have not gone far enough and that they
need to get more powerful so that they
can stop being taken advantage of not
necessarily it's just why we are where
we are right now that women there's you
know what is it three to one women going
and getting a college degree and things
like single people um that's a slightly
different stat so what it ends up being
is that by the age of
38 there are three single women college
educated three single college educated
women for every one sing single college
educated man have you asked yourself why
uh yes that's it's a um unfortunately
shockingly simple answer which is that
women end up bringing themselves out of
the dating pool because they got old and
they are no longer as valuable to
somebody who's looking to have kids men
can very easily especially as they make
more money date somebody younger that's
why this is bracketed in age groups so
it's that you just get men going with
younger women and there is there is a
ton of complexity what I'm trying to get
at because you're you're really making
awesome points which is I'm never going
to get you to say anything that sounds
to you like women are lessening their
power this is a more power more power
more power thing and I think you would
in fact let me just ask I assume you
would apply this to men as well yes so
ladies go get as powerful as you can men
go get as powerful as you can okay so
the issue that I don't feel I have a
great answer
to is that where does this go from here
that's positive because I have a
vision uh two visions that I think both
are actually going to play
out and both of them
are uh interesting so step one is going
to be the tralization of everybody and
women are going to be encouraged to to
uh G flexx as hard as you can but only
in ways that are good for the family and
they will be told and it will be true
that in many ways this is good for
you but it does hobble them in that now
they're not career ready and they have
not seen that but there are some very
distressing stats about women who
prioritize career over everything and
they end up very unhappy and this is why
you and I refer to the path that we're
on is the dangerous path it's an amazing
path and the views are [ __ ] awesome
but I do feel like that we walk on a
Mountain Road with no guard rails and
while I'm very comfortable up here uh it
is not the path that I encourage other
people to walk because it's like hey
this this is just higher risk um
so that is going to happen my prediction
so I think you're going to see a huge
push for that it's already trending Trad
wives and things are already trending on
Tik Tok
I think that's going to gain a lot of
steam I think those videos are insane by
the way some of them and then some of
them I'm like yeah I get exactly what
they're appealing to which is ladies
embrace your femininity you've played
the masculine game and here is the
elephant in the room that we have to
talk about you have a uh temperament
that leans masculine mhm and here's the
spoiler alert few things in my life have
been more advant ous in the fact that
you have a slightly masculine leaning
temperament you are still very feminine
and in fact I've told you hey there is a
way that you could go down that path
where I stop being interested because
you become too masculine and I have no
interest in that whatsoever but you're
super emotionally stable your hormones
don't swing very wildly which has caused
health problems that you're working on
but I'd be lying if I said that it
wasn't also advantageous in that it is
very easy to get along with you because
you have a you're just extremely
emotionally stable uh so anyway you're
going to see that the other one is when
I look into where the future is
going I think that there is a
possibility I don't I haven't spent
enough time thinking about what the odds
are but I'll put them right now
at 5050 as AI comes
online and artificial wombs become a
thing which they can already I I am
almost certain that sheep have been
raised in external artificial wombs
already uh that as AI comes online over
the next I mean this could be 25 to 50
years but it will happen um sex robots
become a thing that you can as a guy you
can have a perfect woman who
legitimately is programmed to love
taking care of you she remembers
everything you've ever said
she remembers all of your preferences
and she's designed to get a deep and
profound sense of fulfillment out of
taking care of you and making you happy
and she would be crestfallen she would
scream it would be cruel to make her
have any other career that's really
going to happen and there will be a
bifurcation that's outside the scope of
this interview but there'll be a
bifurcation where some people reject all
of that and it will be a pure human life
those people will be ultra traditional
by nature and so let me tell you women
will have very traditional roles in in
that branch of humanity and then over on
this side you will get men truly going
their own way women truly going their
own way because they will also have the
perfect male who listens and uh he
doesn't try and fix things just your of
course not he holds space for you and
reads you per legitimately has realized
there's a sequence of 72 facial
expressions and words and things that
you say with a certain tone of voice
that means okay we now need to switch
over from listening to action and he
will never get it wrong he will get it
right every time and one out of 17 times
he'll do it wrong on purpose so that you
can correct him and then be like oh my
God you're so right I'm really glad you
pointed that out you laugh but this [ __ ]
is real this is real this is actually
going to happen didn't want a guy to be
that perfect yes I'm telling you this is
all going to play out this is one of
those I really wish I wasn't so right
about this
uh that's the future and it as an
anthropologist I'm
fascinated but it I worry that culture
is deranging and that history is the law
of unintended
consequences yeah I am very scared about
that I've lived a life with a human that
I've grown with I mean building our life
together for 23 years has been the
biggest Joy of my life and
I don't know what the future's going to
hold if that actually happens and I
really do believe you're probably right
so I don't know what's going to happen I
think we just need to assess each day
and not be blinded to what that can
bring how that's going to bate men and
women even more and because the biggest
joy in my life is having been with you
and look the the dark days and the hard
times haven't been fun it's been really
freaking hard and so in those moments do
I wish you were just a robot and then
you could just come onto my side yes but
I don't think we would be where we were
we where we are now if you were a robot
and just agreed with everything I said
and vice versa we actually push each
other and to be better and if you've
never had that and you only encounter
let's say you've had a really bad
childhood and you were brought up
because your your audience is mostly
Mentor let's say you're a guy and you've
really been bullied for your height and
maybe your intellect and women mock you
and now you haven't been able to get a
woman and you see all these other people
getting it and you want it and you just
feel really badly about yourself and now
comes an AI robot and they give you
everything that you thought you needed
to fill I don't know how you would even
break out of that because you're like
well why would I I've only ever
experienced heartache with an actual
human and here I am having fulfillment
from a relationship standpoint and a
connection standpoint which I'm not sure
if you can again I just don't know
because I haven't been with a robot that
feels that real but assuming what you're
saying is right and assuming it feels
that real why would you change why would
you stop being with a robot and so
that's what I worry about so how do we
help I have no idea I just think it
becomes every single day me and you and
people out there need to keep talking
about this and I'm always trying to
bring people together and I think that
that's actually one of the really
powerful things about me and you having
been married for so long and the fact
that I have a female page and you have
mostly a male uh view viewers because if
mean you can always come to these or
have these debates and these discussions
and hopefully other people can see it it
may then give people hope that it is
possible um because you even said when I
first started getting into business in
order to survive as we're building Quest
I have I'm running the shipping
Department 50% of my team in my
department were ex-convicts for me as a
Brit who's 5 foot one to command respect
I had to get hard it was the only way I
could survive and run that department in
order for me to get hard I had to change
my skill sets I had to change the way
that I thought the way that I showed up
now what did that do it had a knock on
effect on our relationship if I'm a
robot you just reprogram me and I do
what you say but in that moment it
showed me and you how we could talk
through things it helped with our
communication it made me understand you
more because cuz you had said I love you
I understand why you have to get hard
for this but in my marriage I don't want
someone that's hard like you're getting
and so that was a very strong
realization that I understood what
you're looking for and actually in all
honesty it helped me not go too far in
that direction it allowed me to realize
how much I love my femininity it allowed
me to appreciate my femininity and so
then it forced me and you to come up
with a strategy on how we were going to
make this work knowing that this is
happening and so for me hearing hey just
like I said I want to work and you were
like okay this sucks but how do we make
that work for the happiness of our
relationship we did that with me getting
hard and so me going to masculine I came
up with a strategy that I would then go
from masculine at work to soften at home
and so that became the oh okay now
actually
thank you because you've enlightened me
to show me I don't have to be one I
don't have to be either masculine or
super feminine I don't have to be a um
uh um strong or weak I can actually be
powerful and be with another powerful
man I can be masculine and also enjoy my
my femininity but it was in that crazy
Dynamic where you're a real human you're
actually having feelings you're actually
giving me that feedback and because of
that our relationship got stronger I was
more fulfilled I recognized I could have
both that I can lean into my masculinity
when I want to that I can be super
feminine when I want to and then you
showed that your you were able to be
able to Pivot and evolve that it wasn't
like you were like I need a wife that is
this and anything else it doesn't matter
my confidence that I've built since I
went from a stay- home wife to an
entrepreneur my confidence has allowed
me to talk to you and have these healthy
discussions where maybe there's
something in our relationship that I may
not have brought up before but I bring
up now and then we talk through it so my
point being is in all the mess that we
have that is a true real relationship
comes the
strength and I have no idea what's going
to happen when you don't have someone
that pushes back when you have that
person that's the yes person that bends
to your will how do you show up in other
areas of your life I can't see it
working out yeah it'll be interesting to
see all right so in all of that I heard
a lot of um hey
I'm doing my thing I'm learning I'm
growing but you also have to learn and
grow and if we're right that culture is
deranging and largely by that I mean
that men and women are are heading in
opposite directions men are checking out
women are on a path but they're sort of
finding a one-sided thing where they're
ending up more and more alone and they
want to be in a relationship but they
can't find it uh your answer is very
much we're not dimming your light girl
like you go do your thing get a as
strong as you can so given that the red
pill I think culture has called the time
of death on the red pill and if you look
at all the headlines now red pill is
dead and I think it's true I think that
the Core Concepts of the red pill uh got
bizarre enough that they ended up
failing to help men and we see in this
time of the red pill men are still going
in a Direction that's not necessarily
helpful so if that advice set is dead um
what advice do you have to men
focus on yourself and how you become
like if if power's the thing because I
know that that's for you very important
if you want to feel powerful what does
that look like for you and then how do
you get it now of course always assuming
that the power is going to be used for
good not for evil so I just want to make
sure that I say that but when you focus
on women do this women are like this I
can't believe you can't control them
what you can do is what do you do right
now are you sitting watching these
videos spilling hate is that filling you
up is that getting you more powerful are
you more are you growing your skill sets
to be a better person that then could
call on these women that you're looking
for focus on yourself when you keep
pointing the finger it ends up not being
useful cuz I'm such a goal oriented
person and again I have tremendous
compassion when I say this to guys
because I don't like the idea that guys
feel lost I don't like the idea that
guys are turning away from women and
giving given up on women just like I
don't like women having given up on men
and so this I give the same women the
same or I give women the same advice is
you can't control other people so what
are you going to do to sh better today
write out what your value system is and
then make sure that you show up every
day worthy enough to find someone that
fits your value system so that's what
I'll say to guys the thing that I want
to add though to your point about how
the red pill was dead it was leading
guys down the wrong path I do think
there is also the path of the the real
extreme opposite feminism now has like
that word has evolved so it means things
to different women anti-feminism is now
a big push yeah exactly and so I want to
just say like if if you're the woman who
says like I don't need a man I think
that's dangerous now look here's the
difference there's Nuance in this
either I encourage women to not need
other people but do you want
one like I like to think that God forbid
something happened to you
I it would break my heart and I I I
would shut the company like there's a
lot of things I've already thought
through like it would take me years and
years and years to process that and I
just can't understand who I would be
without you is the truth because we've
always uplifted each other um but if I
was to be by myself I feel like I'm
strong enough to be able to still grow
still stay confident or build my
confidence back and so I don't like to
feel feel like I need you but I really
want you I want to build my life with
you I want to build this business with
you I want to build I want you to be on
uh sitting next to my deathbed holding
my hand as I take my last breath and
need insinuates that I can't do anything
without you so I'm with you because I
need you and I actually think babe it's
so much more powerful to say I'm with
you because I want you not because I
need you if I'm with you because I need
you how do you know that I even like you
how do you know that I love you how do
you know that I respect you you don't I
need you but all those other things
don't come with it because you're with
that person out of
survival but having a choice and
choosing
someone is the most beautiful thing I
think that you can give the gift of each
other uh to each other and so knowing
that you want me knowing that I want you
and the the female voices that have said
that I think is also doing detriment to
relationships it's doing detriment to
women it's like you don't need anyone
it's like it is creating an environment
where women I think are fearful of being
vulnerable around men is the
truth um and I don't think that's
healthy either so I do think that
there's just multiple messages on both
sides that aren't doing couples you know
I think it's doing couples a
disservice um and again I just want to
keep saying I I am all for female
empowerment that is what I show up for
that is what I believe in and yes I
still feel like this why because I want
to empower women to be able to have
beautiful relationships without the fear
that it's always going to end in Doom
and Gloom I want to empower wom to not
give up on love because there are
amazing men out there and so if women
are saying there's no good men out there
I find it is my job to actually say
that's not true and you're closing your
mind off to something that could be
beautiful and then the same thing with
the the male Comm Community it's like if
you think all women are losers they just
or they just want you for your money
that they've got high body count and
that makes them useless it's like that's
not going to help you either and that's
going to be extremely detrimental to
your growth and you finding a wonderful
relationship so when you were talking
about that I thought it's really
interesting because I actually agree
with you but the best so there's I'm
needed at a fundamental level which can
actually derange because how do I know
they want to be with me they just
literally need me for their survival you
can take advantage of that in really
gross ways and it also just feels weird
like they're not necessarily with me
because they want me but then I thought
actually while I don't need you and you
don't need me we actually do need each
other to hit a higher goal than either
of us could hit by ourselves so yes I
can survive and I can do wonderful
things and have a fine life but I'm with
you because together we can do something
that we couldn't do alone this goes back
to the kids thing it's like well I can't
have a kid without you you can't have a
kid without me and so as a default for
people it's a great proof of like Hey
we're doing this thing together that we
could not do alone and that feels
awesome and so if you don't have that
you need something else to stand in for
that and there's no doubt if either one
of us died or whatever impact Theory
would be a fundamentally different
company we can do a thing with the
company that we can only do together so
in that way there's like there's what we
can do individually and it's amazing and
wonderful and a full life fulfillment
all of it there's a higher thing that
that we can do but we need each other to
do it that's a great way of articulating
because when I was saying about the need
I was oh this was really true and then
you threw that at me I was like oh my
God I did just contradict myself now
what's interesting is recently so I'm 44
I am very aware that I'll be going into
per menopause the menopause I've
interviewed too many uh Health doctors
to know that this isn't a dangerous time
in a woman's life and when I say
dangerous is um the rate of secid
skyrockets as women go into menopause
because they estrogen plummets and so
for all kinds of reasons their hormones
change so much that the the suicide rate
absolutely skyrockets during that time
that's scary to me the other thing is
divorce rate Skyrocket to the point
where it's 70% of women initiate divorce
when they get into menopause okay if all
of this is f 70% of divorces divorces
initiated by women sorry yes thank you
um so knowing all of that just take that
again as fact okay how am I going to
navigate that because if this is fact
and my estrogen
plummet how how do we navigate that as a
couple right because to me it's like yes
I'm changing I'm need to know what's
happening to my body so I need the
education but as my partner you also we
need to get educated so you know what's
happening now in all of that dynamic as
I start to change and I'm getting more
emotional and things like that I'm
embracing that this is what comes with
aging I don't judge myself for it but
what I did turn to you and I said babe I
don't want to do this alone I need your
help right and so the thing is I don't
want to do this alone I can do this
alone I just don't want to and I think
to me when my confidence comes in is I
don't think less of my myself for saying
that I don't think less of my confidence
or my power or my strength by asking you
to help me navigate this I actually
think that's a massive sign of progress
Within Myself confidence that I can say
and not feel like I'm being weak by
asking you for help and I think it
brings us closer as a couple because
we're doing things together and as my
husband I know you and I know that you
appreciate and I don't want to put words
in your mouth but um I know that you
appreciate when I'm honest about where I
need you to help me it makes you feel
needed so going back to that word needed
is that I can do it without myself but I
don't want to and that makes you feel
needed enough to want to do it with me
so it is a very tricky dance to play or
to you know do but there's nuances to
that word and then there's nuances too
asking your partner for help not feeling
weak and then the same thing goes the
other way way like I can only predict or
think through what it's like for you as
a man to want to turn to your wife for
help because as a man you want to be
stoic you want to show up I can do
anything and when we first met you
thought you had to be better at me that
at
everything and where did that lead it
led me to not feeling good about
anything so I remember us playing pool
one day and you got mad at me because
I'm I kissed and whispered some sexual
things in your ear so that you could
miss the ball and I was being playful
and sexual and you missed the ball and
obviously you can speak for yourself
again but you didn't like that at the
time because you thought you had to be
better than me than everything so now
take that mindset and project that that
a lot of men think that and a lot of
women don't want the other guy to always
just be better they want to have that
need as that partnership women want to
be made to feel a certain way that's
what I heard corre so if you want to be
irresistible you need to be able to make
a woman feel a certain way you didn't
say they need to be six foot make
$150,000 a year drive a fast car you
said here are the ways that women want
to feel um to add that it has to be
authentic versus a manipulation tactic
to get the woman and then you know
change once you've gotten her so you
want to authentically care about wanting
to see her for who she is you want to
authentically care about how you need
her you don't want to force it and fake
it just to get the goal will most be
happier with a traditional wife or a
girl boss a traditional wife do you
worry then that all the stuff that you
put out on Instagram and in your social
feed the girl boss bad [ __ ] stuff do
you worry that that is
damaging um the relations between men
and women there are consequences and
choices uh sorry there are consequences
to the choices you make and so there's a
cost to being a freaking badass as a
woman there's a cost to deciding that am
going to work every day instead of stay
at home and cook and clean for my
husband and I had to process personally
what that cost look like and if I was
okay with it I think the problem is in
today's society people don't expect or
agree there should be a cost or a
consequence to our decisions and I'm all
for just what is true once I know what
is true then I can decide based on the
facts so if I know it is actually
possibly likely I may not find let's say
I wasn't married I may not find a
husband if I go out into the Working
World and I'm a freaking badass and I'm
crushing it and I'm climbing that ladder
and I'm in beast mode yeah I understand
that that actually shrinks the pool of
guys that I'm going to be attracted to
and the pool of guys that attracted to
me but at least I know now I can just
freaking decide what do I want more do
would I want to have somebody that maybe
my pool has gone smaller and now there's
a possibility I don't find love or would
I rather stay at home swallow my dreams
swallow my hopes swallow my needs and my
desires in order to fulfill this other
part of me which is the romance side of
it at least I know and people are going
in with freaking blinders pretending
that isn't the case and so I do
encourage women live the damn life that
you want absolutely you should never get
stuck in society's expectations that you
should stay at home and take care of the
kids and cook and clean don't ever
freaking get trapped in that but homie
if you are going to go out into the real
world and you want to be a ass just know
what comes with it then it's up to you
what life you want will women be happier
being traditional wives or being a boss
girl I think it is all down to what is
actually fulfilling because for me I was
a traditional wife I stayed home for8
years I was cooking and I was cleaning
for you and I didn't love my life at all
I was profoundly unhappy now I go out
into the Working World we build Quest
Nutrition I don't know what I'm doing
every day I'm insecure and uncomfortable
every single day as we're growing Quest
and I freaking loved it but I don't
think every woman's like that so I think
fulfillment is the key and knowing what
fulfills you is then going to be the the
path that you end up taking so if you
really want to have children and be a
stay-at home wife you should do it you
shouldn't feel bad that all these women
are out there saying let's go to work
women let's have equality no no if you
want to have a family if you want to
nurture your husband if you want to
nurture your family you absolutely
should do it with zero judgment but on
the other side if you don't and you
don't want to um let's say you don't
want to get married or you do want to
get married and you don't want to be a
stay-at home wife and you don't want
children do not freaking dim your light
do not fool into the expectations that
you should stay at home but know which
path you're taking and me and you talk
about this even with kids it's like
choose a freaking path and know what
you're going going to expect and go down
that path like
commit if you want to be a freaking
badass in the work workspace know what
comes with it and then freaking commit
if you want to be a stay home wife and
you want to have f a family know what
comes with it and then commit I think
it's the Judgment that a lot of people
have where it's like if you're one side
they judge the other and it's becoming
just incredibly polarizing and that just
to me is is absolutely insane if you had
30 seconds with somebody and they were
saying Hey I want to do my best to
safeguard my future life should I break
traditional look for a relationship have
kids or should I go on the path that
you've gone on which is
self-exploration turning potential into
skill set seeing how much I can actuate
myself in life which on average you've
already given us a very articulate n of
one answer and I think it's the right
answer but I do just want to understand
where you fall on where you think the
average person will be on average I
think women won't be fulfilled unless
they have children and this is coming
for someone who's decided did not to
have
children and the reason why I say that
every badass woman that I know works
hard either already has children or get
into their 40s and then decide they want
kids so again this isn't me saying that
you should I decided not to have
children so I don't want to pain this is
what women should do but to your
question the majority of women that I've
met end up wanting children so on
average yeah I think women will be more
fulfilled but
now comes to do you have children and
are you're still an entrepreneur or do
you have children your stay-at-home wife
I think that also makes a difference and
so a lot of the women that I think that
I know that are freaking tough and
badass and work in the corporate world
and build wealth and just really crush
it in their jobs typically they do both
and I applaud that too I think that it's
a tough game to play because I was a
stay-at home wife for eight years and it
didn't make me happy I'm an entrepreneur
and I freaking love it but there's still
a part of me that I'm like I know that I
will regret not having children when I'm
in my 80s and so how do you contend with
that it's again going back to take the
freaking blinders off know that about
yourself and then just decide what am I
willing to give up and so when I'm 80
and I potentially have that regret of
not having children what am I going to
do I'm not going to lick my wounds I'm
not going to oh my God PA me no I
freaking made the decision and now the
great news is maybe there's other
options maybe I'm Mentor maybe I adopt
maybe I Foster there's a lot of other
opportunities that I've thought through
that I can then be able to take on in my
later years but I just hate the idea of
living a life out of the fear I'm going
to have the regret down the road
obviously you're my wife so I know a lot
of this stuff but what I really want to
do in this interview is map out the way
that you think I think you in particular
are this very interesting person at this
moment in culture where there is a real
backlash against um boss [ __ ] like
that's becoming cringe people are
swinging back in the other direction I
called this a while ago that there's
going to be a tralization of the western
world is probably the right way to think
about it people are going to swing way
back to a more traditional take so I
want to map out as somebody who started
as a traditional housewife and then
became an entrepreneur so you've
actually tried both um I think it'll be
really helpful for people to understand
sort of all of this and honestly even I
don't know sort of at the edges I tried
to um build a path for this where even I
won't know exactly what's going to be uh
what your take is so what I want to
understand though is given the things
that you've just said most women are not
going to be fulfilled unless they have
kids people n of one you need to decide
what life is right for you there are no
utopian Solutions there are just
trade-offs there's going to be a cost
for everything that you
do if you have kids there's no taking
that decision back so hey you're
committed uh but if you decide to
explore entrepreneurship first and
that's a standin for maybe you're
pursuing being an athlete maybe you're
anything that that is you trying to see
how far you can go in a traditional
Pursuit as it were you're on a ticking
clock as a woman so how would you advise
somebody that's coming into say their
mid 20s and they really have to make
that choice all right so I literally
went through this you're in your mid 20s
you lay out all the possible passs are
ahead of you I go into business and I
realize at the age of 45 that I want
children and now I can no longer have
kids what do I do do I beat myself up
that I made a different decision that's
one option option number two do I get a
surer which means that okay maybe you
need to think about freezing your eggs
now and that's one thing I considered I
was thinking about oh what if I have
regrets what if I don't let me freeze my
eggs and hedge my beds and have a plan B
so that's also an option then let's say
you make that decision at 20 and then
you're 60 and you regret it okay well
what can you do in your 60s you're
probably too old I personally wouldn't
advise it cuz I really the idea of a
young child being brought up and then
their parents just dying you know at the
age of 10 or hopefully a little later
but that's heartbreaking so for me
personally I wouldn't have children at
that late age but at 60 what do you do
are you the type of person that doesn't
care and you will happily have a
surrogate mother um have a child for you
that's an option do you Foster do you
adopt so I literally paint what are all
the options that's one bucket bucket
number two I decide to do both I decide
to work and uh earn money and then also
have children and H hire a nanny to look
after the kids that's very doable
someone like Sarah Blakeley who built a
billion doll business with spanks had
four children
had an entrepreneur husband and built
her own business so she had nannies she
had help are you the type of person that
is okay with having help so let's even
break that down even more if you are
okay with having help now take it to how
do you keep building a business if
you're let's say um waking up in the
middle of the night are you okay with a
nanny yes you're okay with a nanny okay
are you okay with a nanny living with
you what does that do to your lifestyle
so I will break it down every step of
the way and say is this a life that
interests me it's very possible Sarah
Blakeley proved that it's possible so is
that what fulfills me is that the
lifestyle that I am looking for you put
that in a bucket and the third bucket is
you give up your career and you say
maybe I'm going to do it later once the
kids are older I may do it in my 40s if
you have kids in your 20s maybe I'll go
back to the workforce in my 50s but
paint the reality of what it looks like
to work in your 40s and 50s if you
haven't been in the game for 20 years
and just realize
that you might be behind the eightball
in a career because you haven't been
practicing that for the last 20 years so
you okay with potentially getting back
into the workforce in your older age
maybe the answer is no cool now at least
you have your answer maybe you don't go
back into the workforce and maybe the
bucket that you stay in is I want to
nurture my husband my partner and my
kids and then the hope is they end up
having grandchildren a there's no
guarantee they you're going to have
grandchildren we already know that from
my mom and your mom they don't have
grandchildren
but at least then you say that's the
life that I want and what does that look
like now which bucket am I going to
choose but understand the decisions that
you're making are going to have a
repercussion it may have a repercussion
a year from now 5 years from now or 20
years from now but I don't pretend it
won't when we made the decision not to
have kids I didn't pretend that this was
a decision I'm going to feel amazing
about it this is perfect no that
actually would set me up for disaster
for me being able to take the blinders
off see the reality of what may come
with this decision I make actually
allowed me to take that step with
confidence it allowed me to say I don't
want children because I've seen the
future I've seen what the possibilities
are and I freaking love what I do right
now what was so advantageous about not
having kids that made you choose what I
often refer to as the very dangerous
path I painted what it would look like
if I was to have
children and then I painted my life or
what it would look like if I didn't and
the truth is again taking off those
blinders if I was to have kids you would
be pushed down on my priority list if we
were to have kids I would be pushed down
on your priority list so the very first
question I asked is am I okay with that
and you gave this analogy but I'm just
going to steal
it where dogs don't look at you and be
like a you poor human you have no idea
what you're missing with the scent your
nose is terrible you can't smell
multiple miles you can only smell within
you know 10 ft of you but I don't have a
nose like a dog so I actually don't know
what I'm missing I'm very content with
my own smell because that's what I know
it's like that's what people say with
kids it's like you don't know what
you're missing yes I recognize that but
I have no sense of loss because I never
had it surely that must have at least in
your imagination given you something
profound enough to overcome knowing well
I'm going to regret this when when I'm
80 so if you know that then surely it's
giving you something either now or in an
imagined future that is so worth the
trade-off of knowing that at some point
it will bother you so when I was a stay
home wife and I was taking care of you
for their years my entire life was
predicated on your happiness on your
comfort on what your needs were and
after a while it wears on me or it war
on me it's like I was so predicated on
if you come home and my happiness was
predicated on if you come home are you
happy or not are you stressed or not and
that impacted my life doing that for 8
years it really made me realize I need
my own way to bring my own happiness to
my life and I cannot rely on somebody
else to bring that to me it's not fair
on you and so how do I actively work
towards fulfillment I won't even say
happiness cuz happiness is also
transient I don't think it just you you
get it and then that's done it's like it
e and flows just like sadness and so how
do I actively work towards my own
fulfillment and so when I think about
kids having had that experience for 8
years with you I'm just like I feel and
again I don't know if it's fact but I
feel like my entire life would be
predicated on are my kids okay are my
kids happy are their needs met and what
so many women who have had children have
experience is is that they're like what
about me which is why as you get to 45
and you go into per menopause and you
get into men menopause is the reason why
now divorce skyrockets initiated by
women it gets to like 70% between
menopause and per menopause why your
estrogen plummets so you spend your
whole life most of your life serving
others you serve the family you serve
the kids you serve the husband you give
you give you give kids start to leave
right traditionally if you had them at a
younger age kids start to leave just as
you're going into param menopause so now
you're not needed which is one of the I
think is what really fulfills a lot of
women up is the feeling of being needed
so now you no longer have that the kids
are no longer at home your estrogen
plummets you start to then I think your
testosterone then even increases and so
now you think more like a man you're
like what about me where does my life go
what do I want and so that sadly ends up
leading to 70% of women uh initiating
divorce so KN knowing that knowing just
the facts of freaking life how are you
going to handle it and so if you think
about your fulfillment has been poured
into kids family for 25 years let's say
and then that goes away so many women in
their older age start to wonder what's
happened to their life and because I
know that because I've just done so much
research we talk about it spoken to
therapist it is so um important to
address and acknowledge that that is
truth so now knowing that for me I'm
just like I want to live the now I want
to have my fulfillment now I want to
take care of myself myself now I don't
want to wait till I'm older I don't want
us to get divorced so if I know that how
do I own it take fulfillment um my
responsibility I should say in
fulfilling my own needs so that when I
get to 45 par menopause and menopause
I'm no longer looking at you differently
because hang on a minute I've now
changed I've actually been taking care
of myself the whole
way and so that was how and why for me I
I've loved my life I've I feel extremely
fulfilled in my career and then I think
it's in is it in Harry metally where
they say um we got married we decided
not to have children because we wanted
to have sex on the kinchen counter we
wanted to you know go off to Paris at a
moment's notice we do we do all those
things because we don't have children we
made a promise that if we decide not to
have children that we will enjoy our
life in the most craziest ways possible
to our cleaner I'll just say we don't
have sex on the kitchen C
but we live the life of enjoying each
other and that to me so beautiful now
again I'm sure people who that have kids
have a fulfillment over there they're
like oh my God you don't understand but
that isn't the life that I want and I
don't know any other way and so I'm
utterly fulfilled with having you as my
best friend with having amazing sex with
building a life together with going on
vacations and creating these beautiful
memories that to me is fulfilling so I
don't feel like I need a child to have
that fulfillment heard do you agree with
me that the strategy you're running is
extremely dangerous a th% why do you
think it's dangerous and what are you
doing specifically to combat the danger
so what is the danger what are you doing
to address it and are you saying
specifically kids or you're saying the
lifestyle I'm saying specifically kids
that I you and I both both agree like if
somebody were to ask me uh hey should I
have kids my default answer is
absolutely I think that from an
evolutionary standpoint the safest
answer if I don't know anything about
that person is to have children in the
same way that if somebody's asking me a
question about diet and I can't know
their nof one circumstance which is the
only truly helpful thing but hey if
you're just giving me like one second to
say okay this is as close to Universal
as I can get
uh I would just say eat steak and while
I get that that's going to be a very
controversial answer it's just from a
metabolism standpoint uh I will go into
any conversation with the most well
studied person on nutrition uh and just
say I feel very good with that
recommendation it's not an N of one and
N of one would be way better and the N
of one may go into uh from a diet
perspective maybe entirely oh you need
to be vegan and you know for this that
and the other reason but if if it's a
blanket statement so you've opted not to
have kids the blanket advice for
somebody if I can't get to know them is
have kids so dangerous strategy in that
the reason we say that is fulfillment is
baked in when you have kids and it's not
when you don't so do you agree that
fulfillment is the aim I think you do I
think you've said as much just now so
what are you doing to make sure that you
have fulfilled
of a similar amplitude to having
children I look at what I want to
feel and then I figure out how I can
feel that way so I want to feel right
now I'm 44 years old I feel like my
nurturing bone is like kind of like
growing a little like I feel like I want
to nurture a little more which is why
I've been side note I've been asking you
like what can I do I've been giving you
more tickles I've been ask you know like
cooking Tom likes tickles by the way
just like on his skin like this just for
context so I've been giving you more
tickles um I've been asking you what do
you want to eat I'm ordering you food
more because part of me feels like I I
have a nurturing part of me that's
growing so I just go okay this is how
I'm feeling I really want to lean into
it so what are the things that I can do
to satisfy this emotion that I'm looking
for that I'm you know kind of growing
into and so the first thing is I look at
you how can I nurture you more how can I
help you more what do you need and that
makes me feel good that is my my
fulfillment but that isn't my um before
when I did that it was I needed it to f
um to feel like you were filling up my
cup the difference is now is I filled up
my own cup and now with my nurturing
that's my
overflow and so with my overflow I don't
feel like I'm sacrificing I actually
feel good about it was before I felt
like I was sacrificing so that's the
difference of me nurturing you before
versus me nurturing you now um the fact
that I desperately want another puppy I
wondered if you were going to bring that
up so that was one of the things that I
said to you baby I really feel like like
we had another dog and there was so
there was four of us and I don't feel
like our family is as complete and so
knowing that knowing I know that dogs
aren't children but I very much adore
and care and love our baby girl W and so
I know what that feels like and so oh
the idea of getting another one she gets
a little sister like that bus me up so I
don't just hope for a feeling I don't
just hope for my future to take its
course I actively participate in what I
need to do in order to feel that
satisfied and those are little tips and
tactics that I do the other thing is as
I'm getting older I'm actually caring a
little less not care less but I care a
little less about my business and I care
a little more about friendships and so I
go oh I don't judge myself I give myself
the utog grace to go this is just how
you're feeling Lisa I don't care what
society says I don't care what the
external you know uh internet says this
is your life you're the one that has to
live with it so what are you looking for
and what do you want so with friends
when I start to feel this I don't
question it I don't judge myself myself
I just go oh what what does this mean
Lisa as you get older business you know
comes and goes there's no you know
promise of success you've been pouring
your heart and soul into business for 15
years and I've neglected my friendships
okay back at 10 years ago I didn't mind
that actually felt good yeah I don't
mind neglecting my friends because my
focus is here but now as I get older
actually does bother me and I really do
want to cultivate beautiful female
friendships so what do I do I lean into
it I've now arranged as you know we're
doing girls nights with me and a bunch
of girls we're going to we're doing a
girls trip to Vegas we're doing all
these things I reach out literally just
the other day there's a text chain of
three me and three amazing women and we
just text each other hey how you doing
today do you need anything 10 years ago
I never would have done I what do you
mean if I need who's got the time to
answer this I'm building quests I'm
building impact Theory I don't freaking
have time but now I'm Different I've
evolved I've allowed myself to evolve
and so where people go is they've said
one thing it's like oh well I guess I'm
going to have to do this for the rest of
my life I don't know if I change if I
adapt If I Grow if my needs and wants
and desires change I'm going to listen
to them and then I'm going to find a way
to fulfill it do you worry
that you're just turning back into a
Trad wife oh no I don't worry because I
don't have blinders on anymore before
when I was a Trad wife it was you should
do this your father expects it you told
your husband you want four kids
everyone's giving you tremendous
validation for being this amazing wife
right you would say oh my God my wife is
so amazing she puts out my clothes for
me every day she cooks for me every day
I was getting beautiful validation from
it my dad's like oh my daughter she's a
good wife you know like I was getting
amazing validation but I wasn't
listening to myself I wasn't listening
to what I wanted so I went in with utter
blinders and just said is he
happy now I just listen to myself it's a
very different mechanism of um what's
leading to potentially the same actions
so my mechanism now is this fills me up
I want to nurture you more that makes me
feel good but I get my satisfaction from
many different areas in my life not just
one it's not just predicated on are you
going to validate me today do you like
the food that I cook do you fill in the
blank this is Lisa you you showed up
today and you really treated your
husband well he was happy today I feel
good about that but I've got another
laundry list of all the other
accomplishments that I've done that I'm
also proud of so I think that that's the
big difference and when people say about
being a TRD wife or not it's black and
white babe and it's crazy to me I hold
two competing ideas in my head at all
times at all times I don't want children
at all but maybe I do I want to be a
freaking badass at work but I also love
nurturing my
husband Society the Internet it's like
are you this or are you that are you red
pill or are you a feminist and I'm like
they're missing the freaking point and
now the more bated people are getting
the worse it's getting and I'm like no
no no no instead of arguing and going
aart and being even more Stern on your
position loosen up widen those blinders
and stop bringing yourself together
because maybe just maybe there's a place
where you can do both and that is
actually the most fulfilling thing to do
I know that a lot of people are going to
hear all of this and say one they weep
for you that there is a part of you that
wants kids that you know that I mean
they'll say either nature or God wants
you to have kids there is no ultimate
fulfillment without that and if only
only you could just taste it for one
second you'd never want to go back that
you could have the scent of a dog and
you're choosing not to have that
richness in your life and so they are
sad for you your dad is sad for us that
we don't have children some part of his
heart not only breaks that he's not a
grandfather but his heart breaks that we
aren't parents and that will never know
that
Joy what do you think
about that your dad and then what do you
think about people who think that yeah I
mean she's just selfish she's a selfish
child she hasn't matured she'll never
mature until she has a kid um what do
you say to that yeah I really love tell
me everything your audience is about to
say with everything I've said um cool
that's your opinion I don't agree it's
like if you think I'm selfish you don't
agree about selfish yeah so I don't
agree that it's selfish I think it is
self-care make looking at your life and
deciding what you want that is going to
fulfill you that is caring about
yourself selfish means that I'm going to
do something detrimental to somebody
else because I want to my kid doesn't
exist who's it selfish to so the only
person in fact it could be selfish to is
my husband because if you were sitting
there saying I desperately want children
you said we were going to have kids and
I said no I don't care about your
feelings that's selfish to me to not
care about your feelings and put myself
first without discussing it with you
without hearing your side to hear your
opinion that is selfish but the fact
that we're on the same page and I've
decided not to the kid doesn't exist so
there's no other person to be selfish
with number one number two to my dad I
agree I think he's his I agree that he
feels that is true it comes to frame of
reference my dad has five kids so his
frame of reference is the my five
children is what brought me life it's
it's what's made me feel fulfilled in
life it's what's given me purpose I
believe that is true for him and I
believe when your audience comes back
and says the things about me it is very
true to them it is their frame of
reference of what they have experienced
but that isn't my frame of reference so
I give people almost the grace when they
come to me like hard be like I can't
believe it's like yeah I give you the
grace I understand that that's where you
think and that's how you think how does
it work for you if it's giving you a
life that you love if it's giving you a
life that is fulfilling to you cool you
have your opinion I have mine I live my
life for me and I remember when you went
and asked my dad for his Blessing in
marrying me and my dad said no I was
daddy's little girl it was the first
time I had to consider going against my
dad's wishes and in that moment I love
my dad I respect my dad and I just asked
myself the honest truth at the end of
the day if nature takes its course my
dad will die before me so now when that
happens am I glad that I listen to him
his frame of reference and what he wants
for me or will I not and the truth is I
wouldn't be happy I wouldn't be glad
that I listen to him because I have to
live with the decisions that I make and
so when other people have opinions I
take that as their truth but I don't let
it penetrate my belief system I do
actually listen because maybe there's
actually truth in what they're saying
that could resonate and if their opinion
even if they come out with me with hate
if there's something that I can benefit
from from someone else's hatred and
their opinion great my life is better
for it but I focus on myself and if my
life isn't going to be better for taking
on that person's opinion or listening to
them or being you know or discussing it
I just won't listen and I won't take it
on but I think that there's healthy
places to have debates mean you debate
all the time which by the way all by all
means debate and push me we debate all
the time but because we always show each
other respect and we really want to and
maybe like show the other person hey
look maybe you haven't seen this this
has made me happy this has fulfilled me
and I want to help show you that maybe
you're missing a piece I know that it
comes from love I know that your opinion
even if you disagree with comes because
you care about me but on the internet
people just want to [ __ ] go after
each other because they want to be right
because when they're right they can then
feel good about their own decisions
because if you have to ask yourself do
you regret how's that working for you
right like if you don't pursue women if
they've been on the day field or you
know the thing about like how many
number people women have how many men
have the has the woman a body count body
count thank you so the body count it's
like I think that's freaking crazy but
if that's the thing that is important to
you I'm not here to debate it if that's
important that's important to you but
how is it working for you if that's like
I can't find a woman who doesn't have a
low body count how is that working for
you do you really care or are you caring
because society says that you may be a
weak man if if you don't care I start
just shutting the freaking noise out and
go back internally and ask myself what's
the life I want because at the end of
the day the quote the most amazing quote
from my husband Tom Bilu all that
matters is how you feel about yourself
when you're by yourself how do you feel
about yourself when you're by yourself
if I'm now listening to the outside
noise if I'm listening to all these hate
haters and I'm changing my opinion I'm
shaping myself for somebody else when
I'm alone by myself I don't feel good I
feel powerless I feel um like I'm going
along with a her I feel um like I'm not
validated so I keep trying to seek that
validation that's not a place to be I
lived there for eight
years where I didn't have validation or
I was looking for the external
validation so I
personally go back to how do you feel
about yourself when you're by yourself
so whether that's your dad giving you an
opinion that you shouldn't do what
you're doing or whether that's the world
the red pill Community telling you know
women that they should or shouldn't do
things like how how do you want to show
up do is that the life you want yes or
no it isn't freaking black and white
there is a a [ __ ] ton of 50 Shades of
Gray in between that people don't want
to talk about and so for me going back
to your question I hold the two
competing ideas in my mind my dad's
totally wrong and yet what if my dad is
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apply okay you're holding uh an
open-ended question in your head that's
second time you've given an example of I
hold to competing ideas but the second
one is a question so um what do you do
with that so what if my dad's right
let's hold the two ideas in your head at
the same time I don't want kids but my
dad is Right MH my dad is right so if I
get to the age where I can't like a can
I still have children possibility number
one I'm 44 so we don't try to have
children so if I decide maybe my dad's
right and now I decide hm that doesn't
sit well with with me if this is an
open-ended question and I'm going to
have the regret do I decide to have
children now okay well let what are they
that a hard debate for you to what sorry
whether or not to have kids yes what was
the internal debate I loved business so
much I loved how business made me
feel and yet the idea of being pregnant
and feeling a baby grow inside me was
something I dreamt about the idea of
having a little T oh my God running
around that's somebody who's never had a
little Tom running around I assure you I
got a big Tom and I love him so having a
little Tom running around I know that
you were a nightmare for your mom but
again I just like going back to what was
the debate it's like the idea of having
a little you Thomas Junior uh Thomas
Bilu Jr I fourth is what he would have
been he would have been the fourth so
the idea of having a fourth see like
literally if you take a camera
screenshot of my face now like I'm just
like melting into my chair or if we had
a little girl babe a seeing you with
that little girl I know what you would
be like you would be so like soy around
her like you really would and you would
also be like an incredible father that
would make me
melt um and also being able to bring up
a young daughter with a more empowering
mindset and not f with the insecurity
and inadequacies that I had growing up
is very encourag I mean I spend my life
trying to empower women so you can
imagine if I had my own daughter water
and I could do it like that can be
beautiful and so when I paint these are
real things I'm I'm not pretending now a
lot of women just have never wanted kids
great you I think that's probably easier
because you've never had the pull of the
both the two competing ideas but for me
it's like I love business I love feeling
powerful I love feeling like a beast I
love not knowing something and then the
next day knowing it I love saying I want
to become this person and work damn hard
every day in order to become that person
and then I also love the idea of being
pregnant having a little Tom having a
little daughter that I can nurture and
take care of and be proud of so I know
the two things but what I did is I
looked at what does my average Wednesday
look like because I think we can get all
caught up in an idea the idea is I want
to run a big business um like Lisa and
crush it in business okay well look at
my lifestyle and actually ask if the
lifestyle that I lead is something that
you're looking for because the title of
being an entrepreneur the title of being
a mother may be enticing but what
actually comes with it so the
entrepreneurship what comes with it
we're on date night all of a sudden we
get a phone call about business then
it's a problem we have to deal with it
on date night and um now unfortunately
we're talking about uh profit and loss
on our date okay that's the reality of
what comes with a business what else
comes with a business my health has been
incredibly turbulent because I pour my
heart and soul into growing my business
I haven't put my self-care first that's
the reality of me running a business I
don't see my husband we work so much
that we barely see each other Monday to
Friday as husband and as husband and
wife I want to be very clear my wife
sees me all the time yeah yeah yeah this
is bus but as husband and wife we don't
are you okay with that so when people
come to me and they say you're so lucky
I wish I had a relationship like you and
Tom I wish I had someone like Tom does
Tom have a brother like I get all of
that and I'm like let me paint the real
picture of what it looks like to be
married to Tom I'm the type of person
that I love that you're ambitious I love
that you're driven I'm turned on by it I
am and so I would never ask you to be
less than who you want to be but at the
end but also I would love for you to
have come home at 7 o' or come come home
I would love for us to eat dinner every
night I would love for us to spend an
hour in the morning just cuddling I
would love to but those are the choices
we've made and these are the
consequences and the cost of choosing
the lifestyle we have but I don't
pretend that that wouldn't exist so when
I paint the picture of what it actually
looks like to build a business build a
business with your husband build a
business with your husband where your
husband's a very strong alpha male like
all of these things are tough to
navigate and that's the reality now
let's take the children the reality of a
child having a child what does your
average wedes they look like cuzz I can
get caught up in they're going to be so
cute they're going to have ears like my
hubby they're going to be no I say do
don't do that to our imaginary children
I so wanted them to have your ears you
hate your unborn child is that the the
thing I could get really emotionally
caught up in that so I go what does an
average Wednesday look like I just did
that in my business right like I don't
see you we don't have dinner together my
health goes to [ __ ] etc etc etc the
family what does been um having a kid on
an average Wednesday look like me and
you had a very honest discussion of what
the life you want if we had children and
in fact instead of me speaking for you
do you wanted to say what you told me
give it to people quickly um I would be
still an entrepreneur first that my role
in the family would be to provide uh
that in the very typical role uh when a
man is upholding his traditional role
set that he would be taken out out of
the home to provide and then make sure
that the home has what it needs that I
would spend the weekends obviously with
the kids I would put them first on the
weekends and the way that I put you
first as my wife on the weekends now um
but yeah I'm not getting up in the
middle of the night that doesn't make
any sense I'll hire a night nurse no
problem it's not like I expect you to do
it but I knew that to do what I wanted
to achieve in business uh and I see
business as the sport that I play and I
want to be one of the greatest of all
time so um it's just I'm not going to be
getting up in the middle of the night
yeah so you being being that honest with
me before we had children was beautiful
now what's funny is I get a lot of
people that actually back I can't
believe he said that what kind of man is
and I was like you you do you and for me
I wanted the truth I want to know
exactly what I'm getting myself into and
so if that is my husband isn't going to
get up in the middle of the night and
take care of the baby because you want
to show up in your way so you can feel
good about yourself so that you can
bring that home right like I want you to
be fulfilled I want you to be happy so
that you bring that home to our
relationship and so for you to do that
you have broken down what you need you
won't be getting up in the middle of the
night but you want to be a great father
so on the weekends maybe you're taking
them to soccer practice maybe you're
doing all these things with them okay
well the truth is just like you said
like you put me first now I go down on
your list so now I don't see you Monday
to Friday you're not getting up with the
kids so basically I'm a single mother
during the week on the weekends you take
care of them I'm basically without my
husband so now I just keep going down
your priority list am I okay with that
there is no should or shouldn't good or
bad right or wrong is that the life I
want and the question once I started to
assess that I don't want to go down on
your priority list cuz I already feel
like our time is scarce right now and
how much time we spend together so yes
anyone listening that is selfish of me
and I love it because I want to put
myself first because if I'm not happy if
I'm not fulfilled I can't bring that to
you my husband and if I had kids I
wouldn't bring it to them I wouldn't be
able to bring it to them so making sure
you're fulfilled I knew knowing all your
non-negotiables cuz that's very
important hey I'm not going to do this
knowing that on an average Wednesday is
that the life I want and so once I
painted those very real pictures of what
the entrepreneur side looks like and
what the mothership uh mother side looks
like I chose to be the entrepreneur I
really want to talk about the right and
wrong good and bad I actually think that
I think there is an element of this that
is moral in nature we'll get to that in
a second yes these are new ideas that
I'm playing with we'll get there in a
minute uh first I want to
know do you believe that my responses to
um how what an average Wednesday would
be like I'm going to keep working all
that I'm going to be with the kids on
the weekends did that push you down a
path that you otherwise wouldn't have
gone
oh I've never considered that that's
fascinating so if you said like babe I
want to come home at 5:00 p.m. and I'm
going to have dinner with you guys I
think it would have made a difference
absolutely and for me toe this is
amazing I've never thought about this
for me to pretend otherwise I think it's
fooling myself so again I don't like to
think I don't want to ever put blinders
on myself that doesn't serve me so
really thinking about the truth if you
were like I don't want this
entrepreneurship thing I love I just I
want to do a 9 to5 I want to come home
that's going to be
fulfilling yeah I do think it would have
made a difference I think it would have
um I would have had to consider the two
things but here's the other thing
building these businesses with you is
part of that equation and my fulfillment
so even take it one step further let's
say you still this entrepreneur you
still weren't coming home but we weren't
bu building the business together and so
now my me wanting to be an entrepreneur
in business and every you know really
crush it if it wasn't with you I do also
question whether I would have made the
same
decision because me and you building
something together is precisely what
fulfills me I don't want to do this by
myself I'm not interested in doing this
by myself part of what I love about
business is doing it with you and that
is part of the equation that has made up
my decision so that's fascinating yeah
it's actually never considered that now
do you think that there are choices that
you could have made during your
traditional housewife phase that could
have made that awesome so obviously just
doing the cooking and the cleaning with
the blinders on and not thinking about
what you want that did not work
obviously um but imagine a housewife out
there that's listening to this right now
she's got two choices uh uh find that
path which I round to entrepreneurship
but obviously could be expressed in any
way whatever uh in fact one of the paths
I thought you were going to take was as
an artist I thought that was going to be
the breakout thing that you did to not
just be sitting around waiting for me to
come home is the only way to be a
fulfilled Trad wife to have children or
and I'll frame this in your life could
you have taken control of your life and
made being a stay-at-home wife
awesome for me no I grasped at every
possible thing that I could do so I'm
taken care of you so I'm like oh maybe
I'll go to the gym I'll work out I found
pride in being the person that couldn't
go to the you know couldn't work out
didn't know what to do build muscle and
so I did that but then that actually
became extremely unhealthy for my
mindset because my focus was more on my
body and Beauty than it was on how I
felt going to the gym so that didn't
serve me I tried to to be an amazing you
know daughter I tried to be an amazing
friend I had a group of friends and we
would go out and they had kids and so I
thought I was going to have kids so we
would go to you know Mommy and me and I
would go with them and so I experienced
all of those things it wasn't like I
just sat down twiddling my thumbs like I
tried a bunch of things that I thought
would be fulfilling and I just didn't
find that end goal that was fulfilling
so with the gym it just eroded my
confidence it actually didn't help build
it going with other mothers and maybe it
was the group of women that I was with
but their um their take on relationships
never sound like you're laughing cuz I
know what their taking on relationships
was it never sat well with me it was
always the um oh God he wants sex again
you know like well it's his birthday
that type of thing like guess I'm going
to have to give it up and it was always
done around jokes and I was just like
but sex and intimacy is an important
part of a relationship so you seeing it
as a chore and the fact that the poor
guy now doesn't necessarily have a um
intimacy like the communication with you
and you're just doing it because it's
his birthday didn't sit well with me but
then the other side I've heard guys
refer to women as the ball and chain and
it's like what is that actually think
about the ball and chain it's someone
weighing you down slowing you down not
lifting you up it's actually bringing
you down now imagine you put the ball
and chain in the ocean what happens they
pull you into the deep dark ocean and
suck your the life out of you well that
doesn't sit well either so once I
started to listen to Just traditional
things like that and it didn't feel
right and mine and your relationship was
so open so honest so transparent about
where we were going to go our Dynamic
the power Dynamic things like that no
one wants to talk about it and every
time I would be like is that healthy I
would get the back loud Lisa you don't
know and so after a while I started to
realize that I need to start listening
to myself whether that's in
relationships career Health
fulfillment I was blindly following
people I was blindly following my dad
when he said that I was going to grow up
and be get married and have kids I was
blindly following my family and the
traditional Greek Orthodox upbringing
where when I first met you I was 21
years old and you were the very first
person to ever asked me why I believed
in God and my answer was because my dad
told me to I was 21 years old so I had
been blindly living my life based on
other people's beliefs and
expectations and so for me now I just
remove all of that and go back to what
is the thing that I want stop the noise
even with you it was like it was so hard
for me to detach myself from you and say
what do I want not what do we want
together or what makes you happy so then
by proxy it makes me happy that was
really hard for me to just sit
with myself and ask myself what I want
here's what I think you're getting at
and then I want to get into the morality
of this and why I think there's
something uh for anybody paying
attention closely there's something
dancing at the edges of all this um that
I think what the reason that the family
unit works so well is that it gives
people shared purpose and I think that
part of the reason that religion focuses
so much on the family is in my
estimation all religion is I do not
believe in God which I know will set
some people off uh but I don't believe
in God there's clearly something I don't
understand but I don't believe in God
and yet religion is very helpful the
reason that I think religion is
extraordinarily helpful is because it is
the medium through which very powerful
ideas on how to live life well are able
to carry across all IQs it's the only
medium I know that will go from low IQ
to ultra high IQ and people can be like
word I know what to do to live my life
the best that's why I think religions
have survived so religions focus on the
family they focus on having kids because
it gives shared purpose which when you
have shared purpose you have unity and
when you think about what is the right
atom to look at Society in and
ultimately I think it's the individual
but the individual has to be nested
inside of uh ever increasingly large
entities and the first
non-individualistic entity is the diad
of husband and wife which traditionally
very rapidly because there was no birth
control and I don't think people
understand how much birth control has
and I'll use this word because I think
it's accurate in its connotations has
deranged
relationships without that
very rapidly the diad becomes a family
and that family unit becomes the first
complete unit where all of your
psychological needs are going to be met
uh you're going to have fulfillment
because you have brought life into this
world and you now have a sense because
this is the one thing I know that I have
to be really thoughtful about my frame
of reference on and that is Legacy what
lives beyond me so because I know
there's an algorithm running in my brain
that will want that I don't have that
strong impulse now but I know as Death
Becomes a very visible eminent part of
my life that that will really hit me so
I can see that coming and I think it
will be very meaningful to me to have an
answer to that question the having
children takes care of that by default
so remember the things that are going to
be championed are the ones that nature
has just gone oh yeah these are the
things so Nature's really just trying to
get you to pass your genes on to a kid
that has kids
then all everything else is a proxy for
that and so religion becomes the proxy
by which to convince you to come
together in a Unison the proxy by which
to convince you to have children that
it's your most sacred duty but really
what it's trying to do is make sure that
your genes pass on into the future and
to make that like if you just think of
of Mother Nature or even if you want to
put God in here uh that God or nature
however you want to think about it only
has two levers Pleasure and Pain pain so
the things it wants you to do will be
very pleasurable the things it does not
want you to do or you need to avoid are
going to be very painful and so having a
kid just like Peak 10 11 12 like
pleasure why because that's the whole
goal is to have a child okay so if
you're going to step outside the system
you need to account for that uh and then
the health of that relationship the diad
of the husband and wife because your
children are far more likely to live if
there are two parents and I mean now we
can really get controversial but this
just seems self-evident that when you
have one male and one female you're now
covering your bases the child is more
likely to be well-rounded uh to have
access to either nurturing or sustenance
depending on um what you're talking
about so you have this shared purpose
that nature makes very pleasurable to
ensure that you guys stay focused on the
kids that you make them grow up well and
and get raised and so that has this
interesting Echo into a modern context
of I want to go into business
and matter to the family and be able to
provide and you want to look after the
kids and to not only have your own
children but this is something you hear
women say a lot I've given you a child
I've given you a son I've given you a
daughter and I think that impulse is you
that shared purpose I have contributed
to the family unit which is our shared
purpose and so I just think these are
the reason that I just say by default
hey go do this is because you will find
yourself in a diet
which is the first Nature has made sure
that that feels awesome when it's
healthy and it goes well which of course
it can derange and go crazy but that's
the that first point of like whoa I feel
whole with this person they see things I
don't see they help me they support me
they make me better okay so diads are
rad and then it's naturally as you build
the family it's like whoo this is the
most meaningful thing I've ever done
I've never felt loved like this every
parent ever will say that exact phrase
you don't know love until you have a
child okay but I'm just looking at that
going yes that is precisely what
evolution would predict that nature
would make that just the greatest thing
ever all right so you have to account
for all these things all right so shared
purpose matters why you and I even
though I think it's a dangerous path the
reason that it works is we're building
the same company you and I had a very
long conversation hey do you want to
take half the money that we've allocated
to building business and I'll take half
the money we'll go build separate things
and we're both like that does not sound
as fun because that's not a shared
purpose and so building something
together fills that we are very
attentive to our diad of the two of us
together and what that means and then
other things we build proxies for
whether it's having dogs that you know
let's call that uh people are going to
squabble over percentages but let's call
that a tenth of a percent whatever small
amount you want to give it but it it
allows us to express to some degree
those elements of our personality
wanting to caretake whatever it's
perfect for me because it's a child I
can lock in the kitchen and go do other
things uh but we fully understand that
we obviously with children could dial
that to a much higher degree but it
gives us these proxies uh and obviously
we're being very thoughtful about sort
of different phases of our life and what
will mean more but okay so uh dangerous
path because it's very hard to extract
from a business the same kind of meaning
and purpose that you will get from just
a child just because nature doesn't
really understand proxy a business so
it's a little bit removed all right the
morality of the situation I'm playing
with this idea but this really strikes
me as true so if I'm right about
religion and religion is the only medium
through which ideas on how to live a
life well will propagate for people of
all IQ levels uh that that's why you see
over and over and over this sense of
morality around uh a strong diet
uh relationships being sacred that
children are a sacred obligation
obligation that um God seeks sacrifice
that you must give the I mean there's
one I don't know the Bible well enough
but I know there's one moment where a
man is asked to sacrifice his child and
in being willing to sacrifice his child
God allows him to keep his child and by
the way anybody that that is interested
interested in this has got to go engage
with Jordan Peterson and what he's doing
on WE who wrestle with God I am not
religious and I find it profoundly
useful for understanding what evolution
has baked into my brain and it it's just
that religion encapsulates these ideas
really well for people of all iq's so
when you look at that and you think oo I
actually think that from just an
evolutionary standpoint you and I have
violated a covenant
that nature has planted deeply in our
brain and so I'm going to give that a
moral tinge to it we have violated a
covenant we have done something worse
because you were saying it's not worse
it's not bad I think it's worse and bad
you do or religion does I do religion
simply encapsulates ideas that are
geared towards how to live a life well
so when I say moral I simply mean if you
deviate from that path you will be
punished so if I'm right that all that
matters is how you feel about yourself
when you're by
yourself if you don't understand that
you don't have to call it God but you
must sacrifice you must sacrifice and
you and I have protected our
relationship and failed to sacrifice by
having children we have not made that
sacrifice that has now created a debt in
my opinion and so the question becomes
again I'm assigning the world moral to
it only because religion makes up moral
framework people are going to argue that
the next three years are going to play
this out and I want people to play this
clip back when this consumes culture and
all anybody is talking about is whether
religion is Peak importance and I think
for the reasons that I have laid out
they will see religion really is that
important okay so I think we have
incurred what the world will call a
moral debt by not having children the
question becomes how do we pay that
moral debt and how do we sacrifice now
the answer is our company has a mission
and I think if it didn't we would end up
profoundly empty and we would walk away
going what why have we done this we've
pursued money for what like it would be
meaningless now thank God I ran into
that when I was like 28 and I realized
oh hey pursuing money makes me feel
profoundly empty inside why the [ __ ] am
I doing this and thankfully my wife did
not go I only want to be with a rich man
get the [ __ ] out of here my wife went I
just want to see you happy and
so a long story that we won't go into
here but we decide in that moment we
will never again pursue something that
isn't Mission driven that isn't about
uplifting ourselves for sure but other
people that this is aimed at other
people and us being of service to people
now I could not have told you when we
made that decision this is us paying our
moral debt that we could have paid by
having children which which is precisely
why I thank parents for their service
because they are making that sacrifice
and just for humans to exist and Thrive
people need to do that but I think that
is our again I'm saying moral because of
how good religion is at carrying these
ideas through and if people believe it
is moral they will act in the right way
so you and I maybe were able to come to
that realization without needing the the
moniker of moral but even now for me
thinking of it as a moral obligation
makes it
way easier to attach to interesting I
hate that word in the context that
you're saying it because it's like you
think that I'm morally wrong for not
having children that's your belief
system you define moral the way that I
mean it and then you can give us a
substitute word I just want to make
clear I'm laying a a framework yeah yeah
no no no I agree not asking anyone else
to adopt it I'm just saying it it is a
useful way for me to Think Through the
problem um so Mor to me I guess is U
like the belief system of something
being right or wrong yes that is what I
mean yeah now the that's what it drives
me Define right or wrong for me what
determines whether something is right or
wrong what someone ought to do versus
what someone ought not to do yes yes so
that that's why it drives me nuts
because nope you don't get a squirm away
what's the definition what makes
something right or wrong yeah that's the
things like if you ought to do this MH
and you don't do it it's wrong what
defines ought when ought you do
something right or wrong is I mean it's
whether you should or shouldn't what you
what makes something what you should or
shouldn't based on your belief system
okay but how is that what's that
anchored to answer your own question cuz
I don't know the vast majority of
humanity if they were sitting in your
seat right now would do exactly what
you're doing or they would Bluff that's
the [ __ ] problem this is what I'm I
am really about Society right now
because people have nothing to Anchor it
to this is why when Jordan Peterson
started talking about religion at first
I was like why is he talking about
religion like this doesn't make any
sense I was like bro go back to being
the internet's Dad this is such a weird
side quest it just was so Random to me
and I was like okay wait hold on life
has taught me one immutable truth if
somebody is very smart and sincere you
better understand what it is that they
believe before you reject it there's
actually a principle for this called
chesterton's fence if you find a fence
in the middle of a field and have no
idea what it does don't tear it down
figure out first what it was designed
for if that design is no longer needed
then you tear it down so I see Jordan
going ham on religion and I'm just like
I don't understand so let me dig in and
figure out what on Earth he's talking
about I'm now putting word in fact it
won't do me well to put words in
Jordan's mouth so I will speak for
myself now what I learned about myself
in going deep on that was that ooh my
belief system isn't anchored to anything
that I can articulate so let me write
down what is my belief system anchored
on and my belief system is anchored on
efficacy in achieving a goal that is
Honorable with the North Star at all
times of maximizing human flourishing
once you understand that chain for me
you can predict all of my beliefs my
value systems because I'm just like will
this increase human FL flishing yes uh
will this action be maximally efficient
in driving me towards the outcome of
human flourishing no then I need to find
something better yes cool that I'm going
to do it to misunderstand either that
I'm driving towards human flourishing or
that I worship at the altar of efficacy
I will be very confusing to people so
what I'm saying is what is right what
one ought to do is that which is
efficient at moving yourself and others
towards human flourishing if it tears
people down uh and I would say in the
long run because a lot of times you have
to do some really you're going to have
to hurt somebody's feelings to introduce
them to the truth whatever whatever so I
mean look it gets very messy very fast
but just as a high level thumbnail
sketch everybody in my opinion ought to
know what their value system is based on
because I believe that if they don't
they will not be able to efficiently
achieve human flourishing incredible all
right so now the question becomes having
heard that do you agree with me
that people do
incur a moral
debt by not having children no because
to your point of what right or wrong
means you're still having making
decisions based on other people's needs
and not your
own so if you're saying I'm going to
make this decision that moves me towards
human flourishing right and having
children can for sure do that but what
if that for you doesn't actually make
you happy so now you're literally
serving other people before yourself and
before your own needs and wants but if
you remember part of my definition of
human flourishing is both mine and
others but what if they're in Conflict
so what if others want you to and you
don't so here's a great example there's
no doubt we'll get to like trolley
problems and things like that where it's
like yeah wow that's really difficult
and there's no good answer the the
truest thing you will say in this
interview is that there are no Solutions
there are only trade-offs uh shout out
to Thomas Soul so I concur a th% so it
will be very easy for us to find um
cases where it's like man there's just
no good answers here that's life what
I'm saying is for instance I'm building
a video game the reason I'm building a
video game is one part because I love
video games and storytelling and one
part because I think that that Medium is
incredibly good at conveying ideas but
there there's probably better ways like
if you're trying to positively impact 11
to 15 year olds there's probably better
ways than building video games but they
don't align with things that I'm
passionate about so I'm not asking
anyone to believe that I'm doing the
best possible thing that could ever be
done because while I love efficiency it
has to serve me and others so I'm going
to do things in my unique way with my
passions un um
unabashedly like I'm not I don't need
other people to um anoint me and say yes
you're doing the right thing I just need
to go do I love this um does it fill me
up and is it Honorable in that if I'm
successful it will help other people yes
okay cool then this by my definition is
an honorable path to walk and I have a
feeling that you will see things along
those lines echoed in all kinds of
ancient texts from the daing which is my
jam to uh the Bible to the Quran I'm
guessing that it will be in those that
you know each person according to their
unique abilities it's going to be
something like that all right so let's
paint a picture then of somebody that
decides not to have children and doesn't
intend to help others so we're building
a big business that helps people on a
global scale so to your point I
understand where everything fits but
what about that person that doesn't want
children and decide I just want to
travel the world I want to I've got One
Life to Live and I'm going to do
everything I've ever wanted and that
means I have to buk in order to go to
Japan and enjoy Japan for a while if I
like that's the life I want are you
saying that's morally wrong cuz that's
horrifying because my point is what life
do you want who gives a [ __ ] what other
people say and so to if you're saying
that's morally wrong then there would be
massive compl you're smiling are you
saying that's morally wrong you're
teaching me in real time that I'm going
to trip people up by using the word
moral yeah even though I think it's
extremely powerful to think like that
and I am not in any way shape or form
backing off of how I I read that and how
powerful that is for me I'm going to set
that on the Shelf because you who know
me better than any human on planet Earth
is not able to hear what I'm saying when
I use that word so I'm going to set that
aside because my base assumption around
the word moral is slightly different yes
so setting that aside what I'm actually
trying to convey is you if you do that
you will feel a profound sense of
disease and the reason that I tell
people the only thing that matters is
how you feel about about yourself when
you're by yourself is because the way
you feel about yourself when you're by
yourself is based on your frame of
reference a bunch of chosen beliefs and
values combined with the evolutionary
algorithms that have been implanted in
your brain over you know a billion years
of evolving into the creature that we
are today and so if you try to layer on
beliefs and values that don't align with
Evolution you will suffer and that to me
I I feel very comfortable sliding into
religious language because it brings the
the gravitas that I want that moment to
have and that science just is not able
to capture that gravitas but again I
don't believe in God I'm just using this
language because it is appropriately
heavy it's in that moment you
will incur the wrath of God and you will
feel terrible and it will be the quote
unquote life of sin that everyone warned
you about and the way that you know that
it's misaligned from an evolutionary
standpoint is you won't feel good and so
what happens to that person is it'll be
fun for a while and as long as it's fun
go do it I love that it's beautiful and
that's a vacation and but there's a
phrase a pleasure shared is a pleasure
doubled so you're nodding for people
just watching self-evident right that we
both look at people that we love and
want for them to be in love just as
people with children look at us and say
they want us to have children right so
follow me on this you want people to
double that pleasure by sharing it with
somebody but that is simply an echo of
evolution evolution is saying I need you
in a diad now there are proxies you you
could take your cat and that'll be some
maybe a small step but it will be better
than being alone maybe a dog is better
than a cat maybe uh a best friend is
better than a dog maybe a lover is
better than a best friend and maybe a
soulmate is the best of all cool so on a
spectrum each one gets a little bit
better each one reduces that gap between
what evolution wants you to do and what
you're actually doing and so all I'm
saying is when you live out of alignment
with nature with
Evolution that you are going to pay a
psychological price and when you realign
then it will feel better so Evolution
wants you in a diad so that you can have
kids Evolution wants to make sure that
you contribute to the group so that the
group will protect you in a hyper
hostile world and so when you contribute
to the group you just feel good
Evolution wants you to do hard things
because on an evolutionary time scale if
you did not do hard things then everyone
died so you doing hard things needed to
feel good so all I'm saying is religion
all of this stuff my talk about
Evolution and what it want they're all
just proxies for your brain works in a
certain way and when you live out of
alignment with that you will feel
terrible and so when I talk about human
flourishing and I talk about efficiency
on getting there that is partly me so
I'm wired for
efficiency way more than your average
bear uh a sociopath would not agree with
me about human flourishing they just
have no um neurochemical tie to that so
for them that would sound ridiculous uh
yeah isn't Evolution fascinating that we
have sociopaths but nonetheless like
with my wiring that just all feels
self-evidently true because those are
the things that if I am out of alignment
with I don't feel good so if I were
running around uh just going on vacation
and all of that and again I've set
morality on the Shelf because thank you
for showing me how people just will not
be able to hear a word I say beyond that
so I don't even need to say uh right or
wrong I just need to say you will suffer
I agree with that and I think Nature has
made sure that if you're just running
around by yourself you know uh traveling
blah blah blah there's so many studies
now that show what loneliness and being
alone can do to you and I mean covid was
the perfect example of how many people
started to get majorly depressed that
then impacted their health that then
really impacted their longevity and so I
think Nature's made sure to your point
that you don't like being alone that you
do want to be around other people and
then just going a step further when you
think about just like the caveman days
right you didn't survive if you were out
by yourself so they want in order to
protect yourself nature makes sure that
you want to be around other people so
that you can be part of a tribe so that
you're not alone so I completely agree
and understand the evolution and why
just going off and doing things by
yourself on a long term won't actually B
Be fulfilling for people and so that if
it's not fulfilling then um what was the
word that you used you didn't use
fulfillment you said um problematic for
people they'll suffer suffer thank you
um so I understand why Evolution makes
sure that you will suffer if you're
alone too long by yourself which is
exactly why they put people in prison
right in um solitary confinement as a
form of punishment because they know
being by yourself is one of the biggest
tortures now of course not to go like
they don't get the Sun and nutritious
food and all of that stuff but there is
Absolut abolutely a part of it so I
understand and agree that if you don't
uh attach yourself to something bigger
than yourself bigger than just you so a
tribe or another person that there will
be some suffering but I don't think that
that should be why you make decisions or
the idea of I'm not helping the world so
I'm going to have children I think is
actually is a dangerous game to play
because now you're having kids and you
don't actually want them and you want to
talk about other ways to be completely
unfulfilled suffer is to make decisions
that actually don't align going back to
your word alignment that don't align
with the life that you
want so what do those people do if they
don't have kids and they don't have a
life that is an alignment yeah change
your life towards what towards what you
brings you fulfillment and so this is
where people they they just go with a
flow or they go with a crowd be still
actually go inside yourself say what is
going to bring me that fulfillment so
for me and you it was impacting people
in fact you used the word legacy earlier
that was one of the things I asked
myself when I was deciding to have
children it was like my dad kept saying
oh your legacy who you going to leave
your money to you know like what are you
going to do about your legacy and I just
paused like what does legacy mean to me
the word legacy because everyone keeps
saying it but do I agree with how people
perceive that word and so for me it's
leaving a Mark that when you're no
longer here people will remember you've
me you've let um what is Steve Jobs um
you put a dent in the universe so that
to me is what a legacy is okay cool can
I do that with children only if I birth
my own children or can I actually build
a legacy outside of me just giving birth
and the truth was is that oh we can
actually leave our Legacy with impact
Theory and help multiple people help
people around the world so I was like
okay your interpretation of legacy is
having children is passing your own
personal genetics on but that isn't how
I interpret Legacy and that fits with me
my lifestyle and what will be fulfilling
for me so we've gone to Global now the
other person anyone listening needs to
say what is that for them what is going
to bring that fulfillment because too
many people I think try to do what other
people say serve other people and so
they do it and it doesn't actually bring
them fulfillment and now you're just
stuck in the same bloody cycle where
you're not actually fulfilled because
you're following other people's opinions
and other people what they they think
you should or ought to do and so be
still and then be curious like people
don't aren't curious enough and ask
themselves What would life look like if
I did this What would life look like if
I did this they you come with a set of
beliefs that don't allow you to even be
curious because you're well I can't do
that like I remember once you said to me
it was something about um we you wanted
me to come back to America it was when
we were first dating and I was like I
can't do that and you're like why not I
like cuz my dad won't let me it didn't
dawn on me that I actually could make
the choice I just said I can't do it so
anyone right now how many CS do they
have in their life as we're talking I
can't not have children I've got to have
children do
you so just ask yourself what are the
conss that you're saying to yourself
what is the belief system wrapped around
those conss so that you can actually
identify if that actually comes from you
or if that comes from a parent a
grandparent you know like they talking
about you know uh like generational
trauma now that's like really becoming a
thing where it's like your great
grandparents the trauma they've gone
through can actually be passed down to
you all right well what generational
trauma do I have that I don't even
realize I'm curious to ask all these
questions so I can understand myself
more and the more I can understand
myself the more I can make decisions
that align going back to your alignment
thing that align with me not align with
you not align with my dad but align with
me but that all starts with going inside
and being curious I love that where can
people find you where can they read your
extraordinary book uh and what will they
learn in the new chapter that you've
written about relationships he thank you
baby for having me on I think it was
really a just so fun sitting here with
you B you know this part will get cut
out right so you can say as much as you
want [ __ ] you
guys don't you dare cut this out I swear
Drew I'm looking at you dude so
basically I don't need to say anything
you don't even need to ask the question
you can tell me whatever you want if
you're uh if you're going to do a thank
you babe you can go and get radical
confidence that part I want you to say
but if you're going to thank me you know
that we will cut it out oh okay sorry I
thought you were just going to cut out
the whole end no
good um so yes you can find my book
radical confidence I basically wrote
this and it lays out our entire story my
story from going from a housewife from a
Trad wife to a badass um and it really
does talk about our Dynamic and how we
navigated everything that we just spoken
about today in getting into the mess in
the real freaking details of how we were
able to sustain our relationship over
this whole transition um so they can go
get radical confidence and if you want
to follow me follow me at Lisa billu and
guys if you want to learn more about
women go watch women of impact like just
like you learn babe it's the new Cosmo
it is the new Cosmo it isus
being the one we don't show but I
actually do have interviews with sex
experts about what women actually want
so for any guys out there that want to
learn more that really want to take
action because they're struggling like
go check out my show women of impact and
then go check out my book and hopefully
there's tips and tactics in there for
anyone even in a couple in a
relationship that can make them stronger
as they navigate today's world yeah not
hopefully it's extraordinary it is a
book I highly recommend it's on my list
I think it's in third place it is one of
the most essential books it completely
encapsulates the impact Theory mindset
uh you will learn a lot that you can
deploy immediately in your life no
matter what you're trying to accomplish
all right everybody speaking of what
you're trying to accomplish if you
haven't already be sure to hit that
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friends be legendary take care peace if
you enjoyed this video please check out
my conversation with psychologist and
relationship expert Sadia con if your
motivation for becoming rich is getting
more women you have to think about the
quality of women if it takes money to
access her you are replaceable