Kind: captions
Language: en
do you think the system has scared
people or has Trump himself scared
people he has now seen the evil of the
Democrat Party and we're watching the
evil of the Democrat Party burst forth
right now in everything that's going on
you had money taken buying power sent
technically overseas but the money comes
back to American contractors so if
you're one of those American contractors
you just got richer Florida man Florida
man does this Florida man does that
Florida man smokes meth and wrestles an
alligator and you know saves a child and
Florida man was right about a lot of
something Dave Ruben welcome back to the
show Tom it's good to be with you I got
to tell you I have seen a lot of
operations I I'm OG podcaster over here
I've built a couple studios in my
day you're doing all right man thank you
sir we definitely is quite an operation
you have going on over here pretty cool
I'm I'm excited to see how far we can
take it for sure uh this is the Batcave
right like somewhere there's a Batman
thing you are Batman is that what's
happening here obviously obviously I
don't usually talk about that on camera
but yes I just blew your spot now yeah
it's fine that's how it all ends for
Batman going on a podcast Bruce Wayne
like yeah I'm Batman well what can I do
yeah I suppose if I really were Batman I
never would have owned it so alas alas
but trying to help my boy out by
throwing people off the scent you see
clever clever I thought so yeah let me
ask yeah Biden has just announced that
despite his performance in the debate he
is going to be the 2024 nominee
what happens if Biden wins what happens
if Biden wins wow do you want to jump
right to that or should we talk a little
bit about his mental state first like
truly that's part of your answer give it
to me well I I would say it's it's
obvious to everyone everyone watching
this listening to this everyone in this
country everyone in the world that pays
any remote attention to politics it is
obvious to them that he has been
degraded
cognitively very significantly I think
what maybe wasn't obvious to people was
how significantly he was degraded but it
was obvious even five years ago what's
interesting that has happened in the
last say 10 days post debate is that the
machine the system The Matrix whatever
you want to call it it can no longer
control the narrative as it relates to
Biden so for years literally before he
was president when he was on the
campaign Trail and even when he was VP
the slips were starting to happen the
flubs the confusions the slurring all of
that was happening
and by the way we should all have
sympathy I think it goes without saying
but I always think it's worth saying at
least once in an interview we should
have sympathy for anyone dealing with
all of these things everyone will either
be hit by it personally or have a
grandparent or parent or somebody that
they love will be hit by this I had two
grandmothers that both had dementia one
into Alzheimer's at the end one of whom
uh because I was doing standup in New
York so I was only working at night I
was spending a lot of time with her
during the day going to the doctor so
I've been around a lot of this a lot of
the stiffness that he has like you know
there's just there's a lot there that
anyone and I'm obviously not a doctor
can see and something is not right what
happened at that debate was that for all
of the ways the media can lie about it
or confuse you or play the shell game
just get you to look at something else
while he's kind of falling apart it was
so obvious to everyone watching that
split screen not just the confusions you
know there was that moment about six or
seven minutes into the debate where he
just completely lost his train of
thought and he flubbed out that sentence
and Jake Tapper kind of saved him and
everyone watching was thinking the same
thing like holy cow how bad is this
going to be for the next hour and a half
and then for an hour and a half we
watched a split screen of you know his
jaw gape the confusion the sort of blank
look in his eyes everything else the
point the reason that I'm reiterating
all that is that it was so obvious to
everyone that they could not hold in the
lie anymore so that's why immediately
the debate ends CNN MSNBC Fox every
online pundit or whatever we all are
everybody was saying the same thing like
there's just no doubt about this now I
think one of the ways the system has
worked over the years is that it's able
to launder the lies to kind of slow down
the lies so for example you know very
fine people on both sides that Donald
Trump went to Charlottesville and saw
the protesters and said they're very
fine people on both sides somehow
meaning that they that the white
supremacists were very fine people and
that the other people there were very
fine no Donald Trump said the next
sentence which was I'm not talking about
the neo-nazis or the white supremacists
blah blah blah but the system allowed
that lie to exist for years right the
system allowed the lies of covid to
exist for years the system allowed the
lies of Brett Kavanaugh a serial rapist
to exist for years it let the lies of
the Covington kids are racists Jesse
Smet was going to be was was lynched all
of these things but what happened that
night is something that very rarely
happens that the truth was so freaking
obvious to everyone in real time the
system didn't know how to lie about it
and that's why all these pundits that
have no problem lying the Joe Scarboro
all of these people that are in essence
paid to lie at these corporate news
organizations they simply did not know
what to do so now what has burst forth
is that we're watching A system that is
completely in flux right now because it
really it genuinely I believe is as out
of control as it seems right now he now
for whatever's left in his brain or
whether it's Jill Biden running it or
it's you know Barack Obama behind the
scenes whatever he is running his own
operation to see if they can push him
over the Finish Line Cala has her own
agenda um the media has their own agenda
they have to cover their tracks for the
obvious lies that they've been doing
over the last couple years so anyone
literally anyone that you could have in
this chair that you asked that question
to or asked to make the prediction of
what will happen or how this is going to
happen or what would that second term
look like has has genuinely no idea
because by the time I finish this
sentence he could be incapacitated we
have no idea well I'll ask you a
question do I mean do you honestly
believe he has been running this
Administration do you think he has been
functioning as the chief executive for
the last four years to me the answer is
very obviously no and in a weird way I
would say he is the ultimate Avatar of
what a deep state or managerial class
would want you'd want sort of a mind
muddled 50e career politician to just be
in there and just keep the show going
and that's why I thought that uh Barack
Obama's Tweet about it two or three days
later was so insanely ridiculous where
he was like you know everyone has a bad
day but Joe Biden's in charge and blah
it's like Barack Obama you came in with
hope and change and here you are running
cover for a man that we know is cognitiv
cognitively declined who's a 50-year uh
politician like that is not hope and
change but let me throw the question
back to you because I occasionally host
a podcast do do you think he's been
running the show because that's what I
think is the main issue that we all to
sort out Beyond whether he's a complete
vegetable or not like who's running the
show and I just don't know I mean Pro
probably Obama is but I don't know uh I
don't think that he is and I wonder how
much ability a president has to actually
run the country so I man I just can't we
were discussing this before we started
rolling I have come to looking at
politics carrying in about politics so
late in my life so I have a very
different view upon this which is I'm
obsessed with getting people to
understand that everything has utility
or a lack of utility why does that
matter so I look at everything through
the lens of um an entrepreneur so you
have a goal you know where you're trying
to get to and then you say what's going
to be the thing that gets me there the
idea the policy the whatever and then
you try it and you see if it shows signs
through a measurable metric of whether
or not it's moving you towards that so
when I look at this the question I ask
myself is why does the public want a
president that is I think you said brain
muddled um why would they want that so
when I look at it I feel like an alien
watching a a civilization that that I
just don't quite yet understand I'm not
even saying that my way is the right way
I'm just saying it feels very confusing
to me
so I would love an answer to that
question why do you think the American
public some percentage seemingly close
to half would consider voting for
somebody who is muddled okay so that I
can answer a little more clearly because
I think there's a very clear answer to
it which is that whatever percentage of
people are going to vote for Joe Biden
let's just assume he's the nominee by
come November which by the way I think
is
5050 at best at best I mean they're
trying to figure out how to get him out
everyone understands that now he may
just not leave um why does a certain
amount of people want that the answer to
that is well first off we have a fake
binary Choice it's like it's very
obvious that what should be happening in
this country 20 years post social media
and sort of a flourishing internet and
how much the world has changed you know
since World War II it should not be two
guys who are basically 80 who came from
a different world it should actually we
mentioned it right before we started we
have like three months between us we're
both 48 um it should be someone about
our age roughly it should be a Gen X
person someone that actually came before
the internet grew up before the internet
remembers that world has now become an
adult in that let's say last two decades
still is young enough to be strong
enough and and have our faculties enough
and our body to be out there fighting
have all sorts of other reasons to be
fighting for the future because we're
going to be part of it as a to being
geriatric people and I say that as
someone that is definitely voting for
Trump and largely likes Trump I don't
like all of his behaviors I was for
disantis in the primary so I can
criticize him too obviously U but if you
only have a binary choice if a system
exists that just gives you these two
that that's where we're at we may not
like that we may want to change that
okay fine but if the system only gives
you these two and now you see one guy
who's completely broken mentally I mean
at to the point where he really can't
say a full sentence anymore I don't know
if you saw the interview with George
Stephanopoulos but but they did that as
a softball to him like dude can you just
for 22 minutes say anything remotely
saying and he can't he really cannot
well what do you do then if you if you
take a guy he's mind muddled and then if
you just quickly if we were to look at
the policies has immigration been good
well about 7 to 10 some people are
saying 12 million illegals have come in
under him so I think you can objectively
say that's not good interest rates
inflation not good I always say the only
things I think I mentioned this to you
when you were on my show the only two
things that I really cuz I'm not an
economics guy per se that I really look
at in terms of economics are when you go
to the grocery store are things just
exploding in price or are they kind of
where you think they're supposed to be
well if you look at a pound of beef that
used to be like 5.99 now it's 9.99 or
$199 it's all trash why are people
voting for him there's something I'll
get to it I'll get to it so I just
wanted to run through a couple of the
bad things so if we're let's and and
interest rates are the other ones and
those are very high right now so okay so
now I'll answer your question the answer
is if you can scare the hell out of half
the people about the other guy that's
why they'll vote for the guy who is
completely mind muddled that's it and
that's all they've been running on there
is no positive message coming from the
Democrats right now that Joe Biden
81-year-old Joe Biden has the
wherewithal and the policies to fix
things he has largely you like outcomes
well unless your intention was to
destroy the country why else would you
allow 7 to 10 million people in the
country in three years we can have an
honest debate about immigration and
maybe we would agree largely maybe we
wouldn't it would I'd be happy to have
that conversation but no one in their
right mind in the history of the world
ever thought you create a nation state
and then you just say to everybody come
on in let's see what happens especially
in a time when we have political Strife
post October 7th like there's a lot of
weird energy in the system right now you
might want to know who's in your country
so if your if your result if the result
you wanted to get was to large hamper
the United States you might Usher in all
of the policies that he has so the
direct answer to your question is why
would people vote for it because the
system has scared them about the guy
that's actually trying I would say
largely to save the system that has
offered more more uh opportunity for 350
million Americans that live in this
country and all of our predecessors in
250 years it's incredible and and scary
and wild and nuts do you think the
system has scared people or has Trump
himself scared
people well it's a little bit of both
look it's a little bit of both in that
he speaks Loosely by the way he's gotten
a lot better if you noticed during the
debate he was extremely measured and
controlled never interrupt your enemy
while they're destroying themselves his
answer on abortion uh and I always
consider myself begrudgingly pro-choice
I want it to be safe and rare which by
the way was the Democrat position always
for for decades and decades
unfortunately the Democrat position has
largely become eight-month abortions are
fine I mean we're in California where
there's you know in essence no limits on
abortion Trump gave the most thoughtful
answer a five minute answer on abortion
that I thought was the most honest
thoughtful thing he has ever said it was
clear it was cogent he even acknowledged
that it might not be safe electorally
what he's saying because it would get
some of his own base upset meaning that
he is not for a national ban or anything
else
um it's a little bit of both with Trump
so he's done some of the exaggerations
he he's cuddled some weird people he's
done all of that stuff
but if you just look at the results and
again you're a results guy if you just
look at the results of trump and let's
just do it till Co and then we can talk
about Co if you want but if you just
look at basically the two years of the
Trump presidency before covid the
economy was seriously Sharp As Trump
said at the State of the Union we had
lowest alltime black unemployment and
Latino unemployment and the
Congressional Black Caucus if you
remember AOC and the rest of them sat
there like this when he said that um we
had the Abraham Accord seven peace deals
signed in the Middle East and Saudi
Arabia was about to happen too um the
world was pretty good Putin did not go
into Ukraine there there was an order to
the to the world because of a strong
America now we look did Co just change
everything obviously and did he get
rolled in many ways by the Deep State
and he you know his own base has to
Grapple with the fact that they hate the
the vaccine and he pushed warp speed and
he allowed fouchy to do a lot of stuff
and all of those things I think they've
largely forgave him for that I think it
would would be worth always remembering
it so it doesn't happen again if he
becomes president um but you could
probably argue it a little bit of both
ways has the SST you know he's not a
racist he's not a racist he's not the
new Republic has a issue out this week
where they have him as Hitler you know
basically with the Hitler mustache and
everything and it's like his daughter
converted to Judaism to marry Jared
Kushner and he has three Jewish uh
grandchildren who all go to Jewish Day
School like he's not Hitler he does not
hate black people he does does not hate
people based on the color of their skin
I think largely what he represents he
represents the the individual in a
system that is
mostly Collective and what does the
collective hate the most the individual
so that that really is what the fight is
sort of politically at the moment I
would say what do you think about and
that's not to dismiss some of the the
errors in speaking let's say or the
exaggerations or any of those things
obviously yeah I I have a feeling that
Trump creates the uh atmosphere in which
he can be turned into a weapon with
which he can be bludgeoned himself so
yes he's not winning an award for
discipline but again he's it's gotten
would you would you agree that it
seemingly has gotten much better in the
last couple months yes the the debate to
me went like this uh so one I was at an
RFK event in the audience there so was
very interesting so I saw it as if it
were a debate with people really
brilliant uh and so so I'm I'm watching
Biden and I have just this mix of
emotions same as you where I'm very sad
that this is happening to any human my
wife's grandmother uh had dementia that
was brutal to watch um so all those
emotions mixed with this sense of when I
was a teenager I I just could not have
been more America's amazing it made me
feel like I could do anything I did not
grow up with money but it made me
believe that I could go anywhere do
anything um I heard you once say if
you're a gen xer the following statement
will ring true and when you said it it
rang true to me it just wasn't cool to
be racist like nobody you didn't think
about it it was just very much like my
mom from the time I was born was like
spouting Martin Luther King Jr so that's
just the the vibe that we grew up with
or hate gays or any of that we we
actually were there we really were so
watching the debate I was like okay hold
on a second where where is all the hope
the excit the vision for America that
will make people today feel the way that
I felt as a teenager like hey you can do
this here is the path this is what you
need to go do that was a thing that was
missing for me from both Biden and Trump
trump was disciplined and so it was yeah
like watching a kid who is historically
throwing temper tantrums like actually
keep it rained in and I was like hey
well done Donnie you're learning like
that was you know from that perspective
very sweet uh but with RFK at least that
was he has a message which was like this
is the America we want to get back to I
want people to feel inspired I want them
to understand how to go forward I want
them to see how my policies are going to
make their life better anyway that
resonated way more with me now do you
think that RFK is mathematically
electable or is this just like a Ross
perau haha funny thing that we'll
remember in 20 years well it's funny
because Ross Pro for as haha as it was
and I remember it well at the time and
watching those debates and that moment
with what was his name Walter Stockdale
was his VP and he gets up there and he's
like none of you know me or should know
me like there were some funny weird
things happening back then but the guy
got what 16% of the vote and in essence
caused Bill Clinton to win so uh for as
silly as that whole thing was there was
really something there and he was
echoing a lot of the things that
ultimately Ron Paul ended up echoing and
things that Trump ended up echoing and
everything else first let me just say I
really personally like RFK I've
interviewed him a couple times we've
done public events together we've had
private meals together he's met my
family he is a he is a good decent nice
man he loves this country I don't agree
with him on all the policies even when
I've interviewed him where we've debated
some of the things like he was not for
the Supreme Court decision that reversed
affirmative action at colleges and we
got into it and I have to give him
credit after about seven minutes of kind
of going back and forth totally
respectfully he kind of more came around
to my position which obviously in a
debate I'm happy to see but in another
way I saw as a little bit of a weakness
because I was like you should have
thought that through before you're
talking to somebody about it you know in
essence that you don't solve past
discrimination or past perceived
discrimination with current
discrimination I don't want to
discriminate against an Asian kid who
studies hard uh just because someone
else was discriminated against it just
that will only that will only perpetuate
racism but he kind of came around on
that which was again I think it was nice
and it also showed a little bit of
weakness if you know me you know I am
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and all of our Good Times
let me let me push on that for a second
so is is that what you think is
necessary to be elected to have fully
formed thoughts or you actually don't
like it when a candidate doesn't have
fully formed thoughts um that one I
thought was it was so obvious to me I
would say if you truly believe in the
classically liberal values that I
believe he believes that are that are so
associated with his family name it would
be a very obvious one to me that that
you cannot solve discrimination with
discrimination that you would never want
Harvard to be looking at all of the uh
all of the applications they got and be
like okay we have to have these quotas
we used to all agree quotas are bad but
certainly and it was particularly
against Asian students but it was
against Jewish students too and it was
also against white students you but
Asians
particularly you would not want so some
kid why would you punish a kid in
essence a 16-year-old kid whose parents
first or second generation maybe owned a
Bodega or something as a lot of them did
where I grew up in Long Island why would
you punish that kid because his parents
came to America worked really hard
taught him the right things instead of
going to summer camp he went to math
class and now you're going to punish him
guess what you're going to do you're
going to make him racist how do you
think he will feel now he gets into a
lesser school he says he sees someone
with lesser grades get into that school
based on the color of their skin now
they're both 25 the other guy by the way
he also got a mortgage at a better rate
because of it because Dei then got built
into all of the systems you're going to
create a a level of racism in the future
that again that our generation had
largely eliminated so it's not that I
needed him to agree with me on that if
his principle was just like you know
what discrimination was so horrible in
the past and we have to just we have to
discriminate in essence to to move
forward I would disagree but I would be
like all right he fully thought it
through what I thought was interesting
and again I really like the guy so I
don't I don't even like saying this in a
certain do you like him for president or
do you just like him as a guy I think I
don't think president would be the best
position what I would love to see him do
actually would be that Trump would
become president and he could become uh
I don't know it would be attorney
general but he would basically be Zar of
destroying the agencies he he should be
the one that goes in and blows apart the
CDC and blows apart the NIH and maybe
even things that he holds closely like
you know the uh EPA things like that
like all of the deep State all of the
the Eternal State stuff I don't the CIA
CIA too I mean he's got some issues with
the CIA but if any right so if anyone
was going to go in and and knows these
systems and has has lived through these
systems I think he would be unbelievably
good at that does he have the right
temperament to work with Trump or does
Trump have the right temperament to
actually select him who knows um I I
would say this if he was if it was not
Joe Biden right now and it was and it
was Kennedy who by the way was running
as a Democrat at the beginning and you
know the first day he announced I said
it on my show can find it I said he will
not be a republican by the end of this
thing but he will not be a Democrat I
promise you that and I even said that to
his face and he was like I should have
known that he has now seen the evil of
the Democrat Party and we're watching
the evil of the Democrat Party burst
forth right now and everything that's
going on with Joe Biden name the
evil the evil I would say the simplest
way to Bumper stick it would be
something like it will do anything to
attain and retain power
period And I would contrast that with
the Republican Party who by the way you
know it's I always say it's like the
giant made from Space Balls the
Republicans blow and the cons and the
Democrats suck but like the Republican
or Peter teal has a great line on this
he always says we have a stupid party
and an evil party the evil party has
become the Democrats and the Republicans
are just kind of stupid but stupid you
can work with the Republicans when Trump
was the Insurgent in 2015 and everybody
was like he's racist he's a white
supremacist when that thing was really
on steroids the Republicans had a
primary process nobody in the party did
anything to stop Trump or change rules
or anything else remember it could have
been Marco Rubio it could have been uh
Ted Cruz it could have been Mike
Huckabee but they just ran their primary
properly and it was shocking to the
party Elite the bushes it was shocking
to all of the people that were you know
the Romney types and all of that but
they just ran their thing and Trump won
and they played their game fair and
square the Democrats don't do that ask
Bernie Sanders that same year how it
went when he went against Hillary they
made sure the superdelegates and
everybody else their deals to cut Bernie
at the hip now I I despise Bernie and
and the Socialist ideas that he's
ushered in and the fact that he's made
it seem like being that jealousy as a
virtue and all of the the bad ideas of
collectivism and all of that that Bernie
ushered in but he did that through the
Democrat Party and they showed him what
they care about and they care about
power and I think what what you're
seeing right now because the lies of
what's going on in Biden's mind can't be
covered up right now because it's so
damn obvious and the system hasn't
figured out a way to to respond to to it
yet um you're seeing a party that that
there is nothing they won't do to retain
power so whether that means they have to
push Biden out or they have to get him
to the end or they have to push out the
first black female vice president they
will do what they have to do to attain
power and I think that that is much more
that's why culturally things generally
lean left like if you if you go in that
direction you will just keep going for
power where where conservative leaning
people and classically liberal leaning
people and libertarian certainly you
lean more to the individual you lean
more to what I would say is innate human
nature that it's a little bit messy that
you and I think different things about
the world but we agree like I can't have
your stuff you can't have my stuff we
want to live in roughly the same place
and the Democrats it's a much more
hegemonic authoritarian type Rule and uh
the amount of Destruction they can do
over the next couple months to to retain
that power I think is going to quite
shocking do you have a like if you were
going to put your Evil Genius hat on and
say okay this is what I would do if I
want to ensure that I retained power I'm
the DNC what uh what advice would you
give them there's horrible things you
can do there's hor you could make you
could make the let's say there's two
major Wars happening in the world right
now there's a war with Israel and Gaza
and now unfortunately Hezbollah which
Lebanon is not a functioning country so
Hezbollah which is an Iranian proxy is
basically at war with Israel in the
north you could just encourage more war
and then during war time and then of
course Ukraine and Russia you could just
ENC you could create all of the
conditions to basically be like Ukraine
keep going as far as you can we're going
to keep giving you as much weapons
there's an odd asym or there's a uh not
an asymmetry there's a disconnect
between the way Ukraine and the Israel
thing are working out because Ukraine we
can give them all the weapons in the
world they most likely cannot beat
Russia because Russia has nukes so
unless you're going to Nuke Russia which
by the way would have a nuclear response
like that thing's terrible I think the
count isra has their wor the reverse
situation which is they just need more
weapons to end a war that actually could
end it's a finite War but let's put that
aside for a second you could basically
make those Wars and maybe even a China
Taiwan situation very hot and then it's
now it's the end of October and people
are like holy [ __ ] there's this war here
there's this war here oh and by the way
suddenly there were two terrorists in
taxs in the United States and just there
will be so much chaos that the whole
narrative will be you cannot let evila
chos agent Donald Trump back in we need
old steady old man Joe Biden cuz we know
what it is it would be something like
that you just like sort of unleash
lunacy and then people will be like
please stay please stay something I
think it would be something like that
what what do you think
um like I don't think it's I don't think
it's as simple as just make the economy
better let's put it that way if I'm
putting on my Evil Genius hat oh right
that was the evil hat right uh so the
idea of continuing the forever Wars um
that feels like a totally different game
to me so if you want to steal from the
poor and give to the rich uh you keep
doing that so the uh in fact while we're
here uh let me do a quick PSA for people
this is utterly fascinating I forget now
who I heard this from it's not me making
this up I have a feeling this is well
trod territory but this is so
fascinating once you understand how
money printing Works in conjunction with
Foreign Wars and one little caveat you
understand why money printing is
absolutely Ely devastating to the poor
and middle class far more than it is to
wealthy people so here's how it goes I
think this is utterly fascinating and
this is why um the the reason that I
have such a hard time with Biden having
diminished cognitive capacity is I
already think that the Deep State and I
do think that is the right word uh
managerial class does not get at what's
really what I fear is really happening I
am always open to disconfirming evidence
but my gut instinct now with the little
bit of research I've done
so uh the way that this works is that
you're going to effectively allow the
Deep state to grow more powerful by
doing the following you are going to
print money to fund these forever Wars
the reason you do it by printing money
is it is a way to tax the American
people without actually having to ask
their permission uh it's a way to get
involved in a war without having to go
to Congress and ask for their permission
so now all of a sudden these people who
you did not elect are able to do do
things AKA print the money which is such
it's ultimately very simple but it's
hard for people to wrap their minds
around including me but the way printing
money Works goes like this uh you are
counterfeiting money but the government
is doing it so we don't prosecute them
but it is the same act the same reason
that you would hate it if your neighbor
were printing a billion dollars in his
backyard is exactly why you should hate
it when the government does it because
you are devaluing right what the dollar
does now explaining why that's true why
is why it isn't one for one is where the
complexity comes from but if you will
accept that when you print more money
you devalue the money that already
exists so I'm not take if you have $100
in your bank account I'm not taking any
of the 100 but through this sort of
magic trick I am causing the $100 to
only buy you $90 worth of goods or $80
worth of goods depending on how fast I'm
going at this then what I do with that
buying power that I just siphoned from
the American people with without having
to ask for their permission is I go and
I fund these wars now when I fund the
wars I'm going to say hey I'm going to
give you dear country whatever country
we may be talking about I'm going to
give you this money but you have to buy
your Munitions your weapons from
American manufacturers yep now watch how
that slide of hand just worked everybody
you had money taken buying power robbed
from your bank
account sent technically overseas but
the money comes back to American
contractors so if you're one of those
American contractors you just got richer
if you own a if you own stock in one of
those companies you just got richer so
you siphon from the entire taxable uh
citizenry but only benefit a few it is
insane now who's the person in that
apparatus that you can point to you
can't it's next to impossible to point
to a single person if you really want to
get freaked out and shout out to RFK Jr
he's the one that told me to read this
book uh but there's a book called JFK
and the Unspeakable and it's a very
dense book about how and why JFK was
assassinated now if somebody can show me
that this book is total hogwash I'm here
for it because you might actually be
able to restore my faith uh that the
Deep State doesn't control as much as I
fear but reading that book I was like oh
my god there are people just up and down
everywhere where the incentives are just
aligned yes and so that's what a
conspiracy is it's it's aligned well
that's why I said earlier that wouldn't
then a a mind muddled 80-year-old career
politician for 50 years be the perfect
person to be ushering in this managerial
class deep State situation he's not
really anything it's governing by
committee which now they're saying oh at
5 o'cl other people do things and he's
around great people so the buck stops
with nobody it's just an endless thing
for the system I'll add another layer of
what you just described that I think is
also deeply deeply disturbing which is
so we print the money so now the money
is worth less so the average person that
was just able to buy Less groceries
let's say okay that's fine that's one
thing but now as you said we give it to
these countries so Israel is really
interesting I'm a huge Israel supporter
but what we are doing to Israel is
actually evil we have made them
completely dependent on us so every
dollar that we give them we don't give
them for the it's exactly what you just
described they have to spend that money
on our weapon systems here some of them
they help design but basically it's a
subsidy for the military industrial
complex but then what we've done is
we've taken an independent country and
made them less independent they are and
now we are we have a actual incentive to
keep them in war forever which I think
is actually what's happening right now
they can end this war if they have the
proper weapons and they basically have
some cover for the unit not not troops
or anything like that but just some
cover from the US but instead we've the
system itself basically has realized oh
we can actually keep them in Perpetual
War why why wouldn't we keep them in
Perpetual War how is it that we went
from wrapping up Afghanistan which was
the longest war in United States history
that no one was really sure why we were
there in the first place because
Afghanistan had largely nothing to do
with 911 and then basically within
months Ukraine started and then when
everyone started getting frustrated with
Ukraine next thing you know there's a
war in the Middle East so I'm completely
with you on that all of that but I would
the the part that I'm adding is that
it's also destroying the sovereignty of
other nations when they basically are
completely rying on us for defense Every
Nation should be relying on it itself I
think I think a lot of countries are
learning that right
now yeah okay so
um who do you think ultimately RFK
benefits or
hurts so that's a great question and I
think you can probably argue it both
ways I would say that he
mostly I'll try to do it both ways and
then maybe you can be the judge of what
you think so I think the the way he
hurts Trump is that because he's been
particularly good on Co meaning really
you know for your own choice and he's
been antia and all that stuff the base
of Maga hates all that stuff their their
main gripe with Trump is warp speed
handing too much power to fouchy Burks
blah blah blah so if if that segment of
people whatever percentage that is if
they're just really pissed to Trump over
that and still willing to vote on that
then they'll vote JFK they're certainly
not voting for Biden right Biden was
worse on all those things and Biden did
mandates and and was far worse on covid
um and wanted you know literally was
trying to force people to get a vaccine
that was not a vaccine and all that so
whatever percentage of that Trump base
is still seriously pissed about covid
they could go to to
RFK my gut feeling is it hurts Biden
more because since RFK is a little bit
more of a traditional liberal say a
liberal of 30 years ago that we used to
know of Ed cotch and Danel Patrick Mahan
and Mario Cuomo and the list goes on and
on they used to call them blue dog
Democrats in the middle of the country
just more moderate Democrats and that's
what RFK at least partially represents
you could see a lot of that type it's
probably our parents generation more
than us that type of democrat being like
you know what the progressives are kind
of nuts they you know the aoc's and
everybody else we voted for Biden
because Biden was supposed to be the the
firewall against them and that's really
how they sold us Biden if you remember
when everybody dropped out it was like
they're not going to hand it to the
crazies right now Bernie and and
Elizabeth Warren and all the Socialists
Biden is just old trusty Joe Biden well
I think a lot of people with the
immigration thing particularly could be
like you know what Biden clearly failed
on that we're looking at the the
cognitive stuff Dementia or whatever
Parkinson's whatever it might be so
we're going to vote for RFK so my gut
feeling is he hurts RFK more and by the
way I would also say that the Democrats
knew that which is exactly why they made
it impossible for him to run as a
Democrat and then have in essence tried
to destroy him through media uh hit
pieces and everything else yeah it's
interesting to what what do you think
well so I don't know if I know enough
about the polling to have an official
answer but what I found interesting is
the polling numbers that RFK put out
there he said uh in a head-to-head Trump
beats Biden in a three-way he uh wins
over both of them sorry in know if he
goes against Trump he wins if he goes
against Biden he wins um it's only when
all three of them are there that he
starts then being uh pulling really low
and so so I have a feeling that he is
going to steal from your independent
voters depending on where Biden is
pulling I mean right now I think Biden's
so low it it's effectively assured that
Trump would win um so the question
becomes who's he a bigger spoiler for
almost certainly Trump if Biden is
either replaced or he gets his numbers
back up um that would be my gut instinct
because if if it were closer like it was
before between Biden and Trump now you
have to win over the independence and I
think RFK pulls Independence just pure
gut instinct if people want to feel like
me in terms of I want a vision of
optimism I want to see somebody talk
about the debt like I'm effectively a
single issue voter yeah and so he's the
only one that I hear talking about the
debt talking about the need to balance
the um the deficit talking about I I
this is probably a bit polyana but I
like the vibe of it where he says
if uh somebody is caught lying to the
American people somebody in government
is caught lying to the American people I
have them fired just adjudicating what
is a lie be tough but I directionally
yeah I get the sentiment and so um that
is one of those where okay again just an
outsider I'm an alien I come down I
visit I
don't I I would have to really stop in
fact let me steal men this and see if I
can figure it out because my instinct is
to not understand uh why Trump and Biden
are so popular okay so um looking at it
it goes like this this is my
off-the-cuff assessment of what I think
is going on but I I am literally
thinking through this for the first time
uh social media and algorithms fuel an
innate desire that we all have for
tribalism so don't blame social media
that's a mistake social media simply
responding to the incentives that the
human animal has uh humans want to be
tribal and the more like as an onair
personality you become very aware that
the more aggressive and in one Camp you
can be the more views and clicks you get
and so for me it is this constant like I
have to remind myself what what is my
actual value system and gravitate around
that even though I know hey if I just
skewed One Direction or the other H it's
honorable and it's hard I try the best I
can and I have no doubt I have blind
spots in that but all you can do is try
for sure so the DNC though does appear
to have leaned way way way into that so
uh tribalism all day every day now Trump
is do I think he intentionally leans
into tribalism I'm not familiar with
Trump enough to know if the answer to
that question is yes or no uh from the
things that I've seen his personality
makes him a lightning rod I don't know
if he's trying though I think there's
just something about the way that he
acts that drives people nuts so there is
a reaction to him that amplifies the
already sort of tribal Vibes over
here uh so you've got the DNC who
actively pursues um breaking people up
into these um identitarian groups you've
got Trump who just exacerbates that who
talks fast and loose um and who
is it's interesting I I don't know
enough about Trump to understand the
positive reaction to Trump but it's the
I feel scen the system is rigged it's
all against me things are bad he finally
stands up for me um
that thing but then when I look at RFK
that feels more like an accurate
representation of hey let me show you
what's actually broken let me show you a
positive way to get out of this let's
talk about the fiscal debt okay so now I
actually understand Trump thank you all
for letting me talk uh Trump is doing
what RFK is doing but from an emotional
place and so I can be all limic that
makes sense uh DNC tribes um Trump limic
the system is broken and I'm here to
save you I'm your [ __ ] and then RFK
is
reasoned RFK is [ __ ] that that will
never work well I don't know that it'll
never work but I don't think that we
within what we within what we have right
now it doesn't work right we need
something more to break I don't know
exactly what that is before more
suffering uh well hopefully not more
suffering but what do you mean by break
I would say we need more of the system
as we've described it so far to not be
working properly or be properly exposed
until people can get to the more
reasonable side of things break it
without suffering no so I I you probably
can't right like so if people would say
like what would really get America to
reset well it's you sort of asked this
already but in essence it would be like
it's probably only horrible things like
there it's it seems very unlikely uh
short of aliens coming down and offering
us something that is unknown maybe
that'll happen but short of that
happening it seems very unlikely that
any reset to realizing how good it is
here how precious and rare it is and
everything else it seemed like it could
only happen after a horrific tragedy I
lived in New York City during 911 I was
21 uh I was there for it my dad saw the
second plane hit from his office in
Midtown like I was around all that and
there was something that was happening
in New York City but not just New York
City there was something that was
happening in the entire country at that
time realizing like why America is so
precious and what Freedom means and all
of those things for all of her flaws and
all the stuff that you always have to
say with that I don't know that
something good could happen that would
unite us again like we're not going to
the Moon anymore I don't know maybe Elon
will get us to Mars and something so
spectacular will happen that we'll all
be like put aside all of this nonsense
we found other life out there um but it
usually we seem unfortunately Now to
respond only to horrific tragedies and
by the way even those tragedies partly
because of the way we behave with social
media even the tragedies rip us apart
now so you know a horrific shooting will
happen and you know like the Uvalde
Texas shooting 20 kids shot in a school
elementary school and immediately on
social media we're all going to our own
corners on that and it's like man for a
second can we realize that that 27 year
olds were killed before we're screaming
about you know you have AOC on one hand
get the guns and the other people on the
other side like so I don't know that we
can ever be reset out of this thing
without something horrible happening
which is a you don't even want to speak
that but I completely agree with your
with your overriding premise which is
that J RFK he's talking about something
that we need to get back to one way or
another maybe we can't get back to it
nationally you know maybe the only way
we can get back to it is personally
individually community-wise maybe a
little bit on the state side again
Florida is doing a lot of those things
right but maybe the national thing now
is so big it's so broken it's it's such
a Godzilla that cannot be managed
managed it's it's you know it's just a
giant godzilla standing in a china shop
and if it moves any way it's going to
break everything that
all you can want out of it is for it to
have less power which by the way would
be something that the the founders would
be pretty into the idea that if the
founders were looking at this thing
right now being like first off seeing
the two personalities seeing the
cognitive stuff and everything else but
that's not even it if they were looking
at it going look at what these idiots
did with this
incredible setup that we gave them the
setup that would free all of them and
look what they are debating about and
the amount of control they have given
over their autonomy and over the
economic system and everything else they
would be blow they would all be rolling
over in their graves what would they
point out what would be the thing that
they said oof I can't believe you messed
that one up I mean there's so much first
off the whole purpose of the founding of
the country was we did not want to be
ruled by a king like that's the most
simple bumper sticker version we didn't
want taxation without representation
they wanted people basically to live
their lives as they saw fit you would
have life liberty in the pursuit of
happiness we're going to have some
property laws we're going to make sure
the states aren't Waring with each other
but they wanted the states to be very
very different that was the beauty of
federalism it's again why I can always
sing the Praises of Florida because I
feel like I live in a place that still
is abiding by much of what America was
set up by and that's that is so
different then when I land here just
last night I land in Los Angeles and I
in some ways feel like I'm landing in
another country I really do which is a
very weird thing and it's funny my
producer who's sitting right here we
landed he turns his phone off airplane
mode and it said we landed in Mexico he
had the roaming rate for Mexico which I
just thought was like kind of hilarious
like in in it weird yeah uh Mexico has a
lot more Freedom by the way for the most
part than California although Mexico
does have some of its own problems but
um hold on are you saying you would
rather from a freedom perspective you'd
rather be in Mexico than
California um certain parts of Mexico
let's say get specific which parts I
think you could probably be in a lot of
parts of like halisco where they're
mostly making tequila which I was just
at where that it's kind of like like the
gangs aren't I'm not listen I'm not
sitting here telling you everything's
great in Mexico um but there's a lot of
places in Mexico that you can live and
not be like taxed into Oblivion and have
some land and be okay that grass but
that that really wasn't where I was
going with this yes I know but this I
don't want to live I don't want to live
anywhere than the United States like I'm
not going anywhere you know I know I
know a lot of people that are closer to
your level of wealth than my level of
wealth that are always like trying to
figure out where can I go after this or
it's going to collapse and I have to be
on an island or in a secret bunker I'm
not going anywhere I love this country I
you know I fought very hard when I lived
in California especially during the
covid years to get rid of Gavin Nome and
for the recall and everything else I got
audited by the state three days after
the recall like think about that um and
that was the day I put my house for sale
I was gone in two months what I realized
was in those two years I fought very
hard but I was fighting against the
system what I love about being in
Florida now this is a little bit of a
jump from where we started here but what
I love about being in Florida now is I'm
fighting for something every day in
Florida I feel like I'm fighting for
something and I see the results of it
when you go around and you see
businesses opening everywhere you see
roads being built Everywhere You Don't
See homelessness or drugs anywhere uh
really anywhere it's not to say that
it's nowhere of course there are things
um there's no perfect system but when
you see a place that it functions
properly you know that the police
department is funded properly and you
know they're allowed to do their work
did you see in Tampa a couple months ago
I think this is like my favorite Florida
story some guy broke into somebody's
house somewhere in Tampa and the guy
shot him and it was as simple as that he
shot him he was breaking in he he was
there to just Rob the home he shot him
that was it the the police chief goes on
TV given the press conference and he's
like I just want to thank uh Mr whatever
for shooting him because he not only did
the right thing protecting himself and
his family but he made our job easier
and it was like whoa that was it it
wasn't that complex the guy you have the
Second Amendment you have a right to
protect your life liberty Pursuit and
happiness and you have a right to
protect your family and all that and and
then and it was like so you made you
actually by doing your job as an
individual protecting yourself you
actually strengthen the system because
then the police officer did not have to
do something and then that makes more
people one of the other things that's
happened as the red and blue have gone
their own ways you know all these police
officers in New York City Police
Department which would have been I think
the world's third largest army at one
time a couple years ago all of these
guys now and I know many of them from
living in New York they've retired early
so you got the old guys the old New York
City police officers like from the
sitcom or from like the dramas of 1980s
and 90s they've retired because they
don't want anything to do with it
anymore because the administration
doesn't back them and then some of the
ones that are a little closer to our age
not quite at retirement age they're
moving down to Florida because they're
like oh wait I could be a police officer
in Florida where the administration will
back me and I'm not going to be told I'm
a racist oh and if I get if some antifa
Thug hits me in the head with a bat or
throws a Molotov cocktail at me I'm
actually not going to get in trouble
they'll get in trouble so the the system
is sorting itself right now which is
quite good and I think the founders
would be veryy happy about that it's
interesting and I would like to get back
to uh some of the things that the
founders would care deeply about because
I think that we're we're playing with
some things there that we don't
necessarily understand the second and
third order consequences but first yeah
I want to talk about so um you've got I
saw that press conference or whatever
that they put out where the guy was like
thank you for shooting him uh there is
something in the reputation that Florida
is gaining I think probably for good
reason uh it just feels callous so while
I get it and let me tell you if you
break into my house with ill intent a
th% you should be able to shoot that
person and shoot to kill I let let me be
abundantly clear but if I got put in
that position I would be crestfallen
that I had to do that now I would not
hesitate I would not be the person who's
like I couldn't pull the trigger I don't
think most people if you're coming after
my family bro guns of Blazing but at the
end of that I'm not going to give a John
Wayne speech I'm going to be like [ __ ]
this sucked like I am I am mortified
that I had to take a human life and so
for them to be like thanks you did our
job it's like that's the kind of [ __ ]
that winds people up where they're like
dude I could be with you if you could
take a sensible approach but when it it
almost feels like trolling at okay so I
think that's probably our first like
fundamental disagreement here which is
good let's yeah let's dive into that see
see first off I understand your where
that's coming from with you like that's
coming from like deep inside your heart
you don't want a human to die you were
unhappy about that and all that I think
all of that goes without saying like
it's it's true it's real it's everything
else like if God forbid that happened to
me and I had to do that to another human
being and all of that stuff I certainly
would not be thrilled in anything else
but I would be I would be happy that the
system
acknowledged someone is allowed to
protect thems and do the right thing and
if it has to flaunt it a little bit I
think a little bit of the flaunting is
part of the defense mechanism Florida
has just made clear you are not you know
when we had even two was it two months
ago a bunch of the Hamas people ran out
and they were blocking the roads in
Orlando to to Disney which made
absolutely no sense but nothing they're
really doing is making sense they were
there for 11 minutes and then within 11
minutes Florida State Troopers Orlando
local police dispersed everybody has not
happened again now you might say but
they they're competing on their free
speech and all that well you can't close
roads people get confused about a lot of
that stuff you know you might have
caused someone's Grandma to die because
an ambulance can't get by and all that
stuff but the point is I am will for the
whatever percentage you want to put on
that for the Cockiness about it or that
maybe disantis occasionally came off as
a little cold as it related to reversing
Dei I don't I'm not taking that position
but if that would be your position or
someone else's position that simply
doesn't matter to me I think I think
some of that is
probably like you you either are ruled
by the heart or the brain and I I think
the best way to be ruled is by like the
tightest combination of both both and
none of us are perfect at that um but
when things are working you want people
to know that they're working and if you
need to strut it a little bit if you
have to show the peacock in his full
feathers a little bit I actually think
that's okay because the other version of
that is we're just kind of weak you know
we walked by just today here in La we
walked by CVS and I was like it would be
funny I could actually walk into CVS we
could live stream it on YouTube on my
phone right now I could walk into CVS
and just steal deodorant just one stick
of deodorant not $800 worth of stuff but
I could just live stream it and just say
hey hey everybody I'm here in Los
Angeles and I needed a deodorant so here
I am I'm stealing Old Spice or degree or
whatever and nobody's going to stop me
can't do anything have a nice day
nothing would happen that is not right
that is not right but they will not do
anything about it here guess what it
does not happen in Florida you walk into
a Lululemon and try to steal a Lululemon
which I'm specifically saying because
the owner at one time or the CEO
basically was like yeah if you steal
stuff from our store it's okay cuz we'll
we'll work it out or we'll write it off
or whatever it's like no no one's going
to do that in Florida cuz you know what
you try to do that in Florida and maybe
you get out of the store but maybe
someone right outside shoots you because
of concealed carry so there is something
to be said about a place that not only
is doing it right but kind of shows that
it's doing it right not I'm not talking
Wild West start blowing everybody's
brains out but I think you need a
little I think what you're expressing
maybe is a little bit of like the the
empathy maybe it's the empathy part
that's like going a little bit above the
what I would say is the necessary
Reality Part and by the way I'm
empathetic to that too because I want
the world to be nice and decent and
everything else but I think there's a
lot of people ready to take advantage of
that yeah so this is my temperament so I
get it um I understand that this is
great
marketing uh but this is also the kind
of thing that pushes people into tribes
so if I might I'm going to speech right
here for said gentleman uh and I would
just say hey totally get the vibe we're
going for here uh uh captain or uh Chief
yeah but uh let's just tweak one
sentence and say uh we stand by our um
citizens right to protect their homes
and we will always uh stand by people
that defend themselves even if it means
a fatal shooting uh but every shooting
is a tragic loss of life and our hearts
go out to the um the suspects parents or
whatever the right word is at that point
uh I bet you probably got that I bet if
we watch the full unedited thing I can't
swear to it I bet you we're doing the
bumper sticker version yeah correct um
so yeah I get it and look there was I
think it was somebody in Texas where the
guy has he stands out front and all of
his guys are flanking behind him in a V
formation all holding weapons uh and
they've got some speech about hey we
heard about these guys that are planning
to roll up or whatever with their guns
and if you want to do that in our town
I'm just telling you right now you're
going to get shot MH uh that
because it isn't in reference to
somebody who actually died it's a
warning it's true just marketing that
one doesn't bother me and so I'm not AED
on this I'm just saying hey I'm I would
really like to see people dial the
temperature down on the division now I'm
curious because I know you one just in
this exchange you see it slightly
differently and then two I while I love
that states can all run their own
experiment I legitimately concerned
about National divorce that does not
strike me as the path we want to go down
but I'm curious do you think National
divorce solves a lot of our problems and
hey everybody don't worry just like run
to the state that best represents you
and call it a day so I've only discussed
this on my show a couple times and I
think in one or two other interviews off
my show because I this is one of those
things that I don't like talking about
yet because I don't want to speak it
into existence you know what I mean it's
one of those things you start we all
start having this conversation and the
next thing you know legislatures and
states are doing different things and
everything else I would prefer so my
bumper sticker I would prefer that the
United States Remain the United States
of America the problem we're having
right now is what unites us what unites
California and Florida now not much
first off we got about 3,000 miles
between us but then ideologically and
how the how the state's function is
wildly different it would be one thing
if this was again sort of where we grew
up or or just think back to 1995 that's
the year I always want to like take
everything back to it would be one thing
if it was like ah you know this state
has um a marginal tax rate of 7% this
one has two this one has legalized
marijuana this one doesn't or this one
has recreational and this one like if it
was basic you know sort of simple stuff
that we were disagreeing on then I think
that this the system could operate
properly and that's how it operated for
a long time right Colorado had legalized
weed earlier than I think it was the
first state to have legalized weed if
I'm not mistaken and they got to see the
results of that um by the way a lot of
people in Colorado aren't so thrilled
with the results of that and I'm I'm for
I'm largely for the legalization of
marijuana um but it does come with
secondary effects I mean go to New York
City right now and every single Street
Corner smells like weed that I actually
think over time that's not great for a
society but what's happen now is it's
not just about tax rates or whether weed
should be legal it's become about
completely opposing diametrically
opposite ideas the idea that Dei should
be in the system so I would argue that
Dei is institutional racism I don't want
it in the system so here in California
it is in the system the state can hire
people based on color of skin based on
gender identity and everything else
Florida we have obliterated that we have
gone back to a merit a meritto
meritocracy in terms of Hiring Our
professionals and our police and
Educators and all that thing those that
that idea alone is so profoundly
different in these two places that I
don't know how you bring those things
together so I'm not for National divorce
well let's put it this way if Joe Biden
or the managerial class that he
represents or that whole thing that we
did in the first half of this
conversation if that thing wins again
then I don't see how America gets out of
any of these problems that we have right
now I think we are in it it will keep
getting worse and worse and worse
they'll print the high hell out of it
the wars will continue all of the the
woke stuff as far as racism that will be
just pushed into the system and the
gender confusion it will all get worse
and worse not everywhere there will be
some it will be a little bit better into
Florida it be a little bit better in
Texas but I would say largely at that
point I would be very bullish on Florida
and very bearish on the rest of the
country I would say Florida you know
what I live in a state that is a
peninsula that is you know we have our
own Coast Guard we can make sure that
people can't just show up on boats um
and we have a border with Georgia and a
little border with Louisiana I think and
it's like we can protect that pretty
easily and maybe that is what we should
do
so that's basically where I would be at
that it's not National the the real
problem with national divorce is that
let's say let's say 15 red States all
aligned together the blue States will
never let them go that's the problem
because the the ideology that we talked
about earlier this collectivist
socialist ideology that has taken over
the Democrat Party it wants total
control if you said to the average Texan
hey you could just have nothing to do
with greater America anymore you could
still visit you can get on a plane and
go and whatever but that's kind of it
you know the I think the average Texan
would would be for that I think the
average Floridian would be for that um
at least ideologically maybe not in
terms of how exactly you're going to
break the thing or anything I don't like
the idea of this but I think at some
point it it is the break in case of
emergency thing that we have in the
states it's it's the last thing that we
have to protect anything that's somewhat
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today are you saying that if Biden got
elected in 24 that you would um campaign
for the cessation of
Florida I would be on that side of the
argument if the argument uh presented
itself yeah okay I I don't know that I
want to lead that movement but I would I
would be for it it would present itself
let's put it that way if Biden wins
again and suddenly they're just like yes
now 10 more million people will come in
over the next four years and all of
these bad ideas will just keep pushing
and the Department of Education will get
bigger and keep teaching kids the wrong
thing it's not tenable you can't teach
generations of kids that America is evil
and founded on racism and all of these
things you can't teach it we're seeing
what's H the results of that you know on
July 4th when you see at the steps of
the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia that
should be the most proud place on July
4th to celebrate the 248 Years and we're
48 years old so we were it was 200
America turned 200 on our on our
birthing year um it should be the most
proud place in the world that day and
they're burning American flags and
waving Palestinian flags that can't last
for very long so I would be for a
movement that would want nothing to do
with
that okay so what is the um what are the
big things you're trying to protect
Florida from in that case that you
couldn't already do with State's rights
well the big one would be immigration
the big one would be immigration and
there might be ways that you wouldn't
have to secede and again I I'm very
leery of talking talk about this it's
just I just think there's a weird energy
thing around it but if if the governor
of Florida was given not given he has
the right if any particular governor of
a state would then do what they have to
do to either expand their National Guard
or create some new vertical or whatever
to make sure that their border I border
to me is number one that is the number
one thing Biden should be impeached or
at least not be president for the Border
if nothing else forget all the cognitive
stuff his there's very few
responsibilities that the executive
branch has you know what I mean like to
do the basic stuff like the Congress
writes the laws and the president signs
them into law and then the judicial
branch decides if they're legal that's
basically how it works the president
isn't supposed to be you know striking
the pen with all these executive actions
all day figuring out what the laws are
we've just outsourced all of it to the
executive branch it's a again the
founders would be extremely disappointed
by that because this is exactly what
they left in the first place right um so
I would be for or the states having you
don't want look you don't want closed
borders you want you of course in a in a
functioning Society you want to be able
to drive through a I've driven across
the country I'm guess you've probably
driven across the country at some point
not the whole have you never done it
it's a wonderful I it's one of the
things I recommend to everybody you
should do it once in your life just
drive across this country once 3,000
miles do it in five or six days and just
see the expanse and the natural beauty
of this country and hear the different
di you know dialects and accents and all
that it's just one of most wonderful
things you could do so it's not like I
like the idea of that when you cross
over from Florida to Georgia you're
going to have to go through a border
like you were going through uh to Canada
but I think the states have a right to
make sure that the that the things that
they believe in um are protected the
people of Florida have basically OG
Florida guy it was the it was the joke
of 20 years ago on the internet it was
like one of the first meme jokes Florida
man Florida man does this Florida man
does that Florida man smokes meth and
wrestles an alligator you know saves a
child and do Florida man was right about
a lot of something and and I think the
people of Florida have every right to
protect that so you'd have to do what
you need to do to protect that and by
the way I would say that California has
well within its right to do that
too yeah of course of course I mean I
think that goes without saying okay so
what uh what is the specific problem
with unchecked immigration what does it
do boots on the ground I mean the simple
answer to that is like you don't have a
country if you don't know who's in your
country country you have something you
have some kind of amorphous blob but you
do not have a country would it solve
your problem then if we documented
everybody coming across well I I still
would be for limiting it you have to
pick an there's a couple problems I mean
first off we have probably they tell us
we have about 12 million illegals before
the last three years so if it's about
seven that have come in out there's
about 20 million people that are
undocumented right now right that's a
problem in and of itself if you have
people that kind of exist outside of the
system but are in the system or a part
or like ancillarity touching the system
it's just not how a system could work
because then you have obviously the
people who are in the system paying for
those people and all of the services we
now see what's happening in sanctuary
cities I mean you should go next time I
don't recommend anyone go to New York
City but next time you go to New York
City go to Roosevelt Hotel I was there a
couple weeks ago it was one of the most
iconic hotels in New York City kind of
like the other Waldorf Historia you go
there it's a migrant shelter there's
just children there's just children out
on the streets in front of the hotel and
then there's a lot of people in hoodies
and everyone looks kind of shady it's
like what what is going on there it's
barricaded it's not a hotel anymore it
it's a refugee Center in essence that's
not how it's supposed to be again it's
the same thing is why you can walk into
CVS and la and just steal whatever you
want and you can't do that in Florida
they they've just decided Rules and
Things don't matter so you don't the
other part of this is um you know the
Line Andrew Bart used to say that
politics is Downstream from culture
right so I would say that everything is
Downstream from immigration if you just
don't know who is in your country what
are they roughly believe why are they
here like are they OB obeying laws are
they here to upend everything to commit
crime to create gangs and like you won't
have a country for very long so
ironically for all of the stuff that we
think is the problem with the border
right now I think it it could all be far
worse and we have no idea we have no
idea who's in this country it only took
about what 21 Men and three masterminds
to do 9911 like I don't know if about 10
million people are in this country right
now in the last couple years I think a
couple of them have bad ideas so uh yes
you should have you should have closed
countes should have Hungary has a closed
border closed border period it is
extremely hard to become a lot of people
think that um the president of Hungary
Sounds like a lunatic I mean I simply
don't yes a lot of people do think that
uh I've met him I met him at the
presidential Palace we talked for about
20 minutes what he repeatedly said over
and over was that he loves his country
he loves his country and he loves his
people now I'm not going to tell you
that I know everything about him but I
don't think he's a racist you know
ironically um I met the chief Rabbi of
uh of Hungary of Budapest there's about
I think a hundred or maybe 150,000 Jews
in Hungary they will be the safest Jews
in all of Europe it's not going to be in
France or in the UK where they're going
to let the islamists and jihadists just
Rampage through the streets all the time
it's going to be in the place that is
thought of as the most far right and
like Nazi white supremacist something
that's where the the Jews of Europe will
be able to live I because he Because he
believes that Jews should be hungarians
like everything else he just doesn't
want his borders to be over run by
people who are not
hungarians um and until we until all of
us realize that that that is that is how
we have to behave these are serious
problems why is it that everyone still
wants to come here and nobody leaves
nobody leaves America everyone still
wants to come there is a reason but at
some point if you let everyone in then
you're not America you're just what do
you think the reason the rest of the
world why why do people want to come to
America because we because believe it or
not we still have opportunity we still
have that dream so E I will it's largely
economic but but it's economic but then
it's connected to something I would say
existential so it's economic in like the
most literal sense so if you live
somewhere that's not great you look at
America and you still see the flashiness
of America and you still see the movies
of America and the TV of America and all
the cool and the sports of America and
all that cool stuff that's like the
initial thing but then it's much deeper
than that once you realize what creates
that what creates that is the engine of
Freedom what creates that is that our
Founders set up a system that anyone
could come here as long as you did it
legally and you have a chance and what
what better system could there be than
that but you can't let everyone in to
partake in that because some people will
not be uh for that some people will
gladly shred that and I think we
actually have now members of Congress
that are largely against that that don't
like the founding documents in the first
place and everything else um so I don't
know what the it would be a waste of
time for us to sit here and be like well
how many people can come in and what
does the exact border look like and all
that kind of stuff why would that be a
waste of time well I mean it would be a
waste of time for the two of us to just
I guess we could know what we talking
about yeah yeah I don't think we have
enough information like how many border
crossings there are today and everything
else like but if a if a serious
politician here RFK who you obviously
like a lot one of the most amazing
things that's happened in the last year
is that RFK if you look at most of his
career rarely talked about immigration
at all then he went to the Border did
you see that video that he did where
he's basically with the selfie video
doing he's going down I think it was in
Arizona maybe maybe it was in Texas I'm
not sure so someone can fact check me on
this and I have no doubt the internet
will but he's standing there doing a
selfie video and he's at a broken spot
at the border wall and he's like I
didn't know what I was coming down here
to see but I am absolutely shocked he
said there are people and he listed like
20 countries that people were coming
from and he could not believe it and
then he noted and I've discussed this
with him after uh that why is it all men
it's basically all men 25 to 40 fighting
age where are the women where are the
huddled masses where are the grandmas
your your grandparents or
great-grandparents that came here uh it
wasn't just dudes that were 25 that came
here so there is something else
happening right now and and the more of
us that realize that if we just realize
it it's not racist to realize that that
has nothing to do with race I simply
don't I I don't I would it's just so
nonsensical to talk about within the
prism of race but they've made they've
made it so that immigration is all about
race I'll tell you I live in Miami it's
largely a Hispanic population and
there's Miami is largely Cuban and
Venezuela and everything else I play
basketball a couple times a week with I
think it's about 25 guys I'm pretty sure
23 of them are Hispanic of some version
there's probably me and one other white
guy that play and then there's one black
guy they are all Trump supporters and
not only are they all Trump supporters
they're all uh rabid Trump supporters
they don't want illegal immigration
their parents came here again many from
Cuba they did it right they've made a
good life for themselves they don't they
don't want to just give that away so and
by the way you're also seeing that in a
lot of the Texas border towns that they
are now becoming they're Hispanic but
they are becoming the most stringent On
the Border because the media doesn't
care when the Texas El Paso Airport gets
overrun with illegal immigrants but
suddenly you send 20 of them up to
Martha's Vineyard and Barack Obama's 30
acre estate might have an illegal on it
well [ __ ] we better do something about
that can you Steelman the people that
want the open
border um so I think there's two types
of people that want an open well
probably three types so the the easiest
type is just there's just some people
that it's not that they want it or don't
want it they just don't think about
things seriously and they're just like
oh it's America anyone can come that's
and I don't know what percentage that is
that's like the person that's not
thinking I think the two types that are
that are thinking about it are one is
partly probably a lot of type of people
that you've been around in in Tech and
uh everything else is like the more
libertarian person that in general
doesn't really believe in borders
believes that economics kind of drives
everything and we just need more
Workforce so you hear a lot of this from
like the big Tech guys they just kind of
want more people that I I'm somewhat
sympathetic to that argument the problem
is you need skilled people to fill a
certain set of jobs you can't just have
you can't just have like you know 50
Chinese nationalists just come in and
you have no idea what they know or what
they believe or why they're here so I
think something with the libertarian
version of this I just find is generally
naive it's like yes it would be nice if
everyone could come here and make a good
life for themselves but like it's kind
and not how the world it's not how human
nature works that's one version and then
I would say the other version is is the
much scarier version the other version
is what I would say at this point the
Rashida Talib or ilhan Omar version is
or uh some of the more nefarious members
of Congress and the media I would say
which is that they genuinely are trying
to upend the United States that they are
not proud of this country they I mean
you just have to listen to them you
don't have to listen to me read the 169
project that this country was founded on
racism it's not good that we're an
imperialist project you know Israel is
the appetizer for these guys but the US
is the big fish so those are the ones
that I'm really concerned about the
Libertarians who you know and
Libertarians generally don't have that
much power and by the way I'm I'm almost
all libertarian in ideas it's just that
I believe in some level of of guard
rails around that like just some level
otherwise we'd all be in Mad Max which
is kind of fun intellectually and I
really yeah it's fun to think about
could we really just like shred every
freaking thing and have Thunderdome to
solve all our problems yes I can get on
board that
is a horrifying idea I just could get on
it for my like fun 80s fun movie but I'm
very glad no we should not be living in
barter Town although I did like Tina
Turner running that city was pretty
awesome back then um so I so it's some
combination of like the the Libertarians
we just want Workforce here which by the
way ends up keeping like a constant
underclass so I think there's some some
weird issue there it's interesting do
you think that that is a the permanent
under class as a result of people just
cannot get out of it or is there
something broken in a system that should
otherwise help people up a ladder well I
mean I think the easiest example which
we could connect to this Administration
is as I said before the two things that
I because I'm not as economically versed
as you are and I'm not an economist and
everything else the two things I always
look at price of groceries and interest
rates to me interest rates so everyone
understands if if eggs are more eggs are
more okay and you can buy less eggs but
interest rates the idea that at one time
in America not too long ago only about
seven years years ago you could get a
mortgage rate for say uh
2.75% in essence that allowed me and I
bought two houses in that period right
um that allowed me to basically go to
the bank and say hey I'd like to buy
something you will lend me some money
and then I'll pay you a little something
every month and then hopefully the thing
that I bought will raise in value and
then I'll be able to move on and it
worked I bought one house stayed in it
for a couple years then La got really
bad I was living off uh Ventura in
Sherman Oaks I real the the riots were
going by my house I wanted to leave
altogether but I was like you know we'll
just move to a nicer house up the hill
we moved to enino the most beautiful
house that I could have died in I I
loved loved loved that house it wasn't
quite like this but like it was like a
mini one of these right loved it new
construction the whole thing I I thought
we were going to raise our family there
live there forever we lived there for a
year and then I what I saw was that the
the crime and all the stuff wasn't going
away and I just and then everything went
Newsome and and the recall and all that
uh but but both houses I got low
interest rates on both houses and I made
money on both houses and then I rolled
that over into something in Florida and
now in Florida I have no income tax if
if the system was working to empower
people what would you want people to do
you would want people to own something
for themselves when you own something
for yourself whether it's a little piece
of land or a house or a car or something
you're more inclined to take care of it
and you're more inclined to grow it and
nurture it and everything else we all
know that with everything you care more
about your bedroom than you do about a
hotel room right like these are obvious
things it's why when you have an Ever
growing government like the government
doesn't do anything well because
nobody's really in charge nobody's
really accountable it is that that thing
that you mentioned before so for me if
if the government was responsible and
wanted to empower people to do the right
thing it would constantly well a you'd
be taxing people less and less it would
constantly be reigning itself in that's
what a responsible government and the
way it was set up was supposed to be
that way that the government would not
go beyond what its basic duties I do
want to talk about that government
growth but I want to stay on the border
for a second so where where I'm driving
is uh if I were going to steal man the
sides the one that you dismissed I think
is is the most compelling because this
to me ultimately comes down to this is a
values question which the libertarian
one or the the one you just missed you
said people started thinking give me
your tired huddled masses but they're
they're not thinking and I agree with
you that they're not thinking
intellectually this is going back to now
my uh just raw fear about why RFK is
really in trouble is that um he's being
sensible versus being emotional but the
way that I see it is um we had a
national identity around this idea of
give me your poor tired huddle masses
and that yearn to be free and they will
come here and assimilate yes and we'll
do something amazing yes and my complete
hypothesis is very simple that America
is an idea it is a story that attracts a
certain kind of person that certain kind
of person I'll round to they are
entrepreneurial not everyone of them is
going to start a company but there's the
sense of like be hardworking be
industrious uh one of the most brilliant
things I ever heard was everybody talks
about the Industrial Revolution but they
don't talk about the industrious
revolution of America and America being
founded on this Puritan work ethic of
you're going to come here you are going
to grind you are going to toil you are
going to build something with your own
two hands nobody is coming to save you
and you are going to make something of
yourselves and look that there this
country for sure required a ton of
Bloodshed in order to become what it is
I I'm not dismissing that and whoo will
we derail if we want to go into that at
some point I should hold myself
accountable to doing an episode on that
but the reality is that uh we came in
and we created what is currently the
most powerful country in the world and
it it is from where I'm sitting on the
back of a set of ideas which we will
call values on the back of a set of
values which will round to Puritan
values of hard work self-reliance
industriousness get it done don't
complain [ __ ] work around the clock
reap what you seow all of that nobody's
going to give you anything and don't
tread on me nobody should take anything
from me small government as much as we
can boom okay that sets forth with these
incredible documents which you and I
moved off of very quickly but a set of
documents created by slave holders evil
slaveholders it's a whole thing we have
to talk about context because that [ __ ]
was evil but to be born into uh a system
which literally enslaved humans it's so
crazy to me but to be born into that
system and say okay uh no one person is
going to be able to get rid of this
system but we're going to create
documents that will over time actually
we saw it happen actually get rid of
this system aspirational documents the
idea people don't understand context
you're born into context you can't just
overthrow the whole it doesn't work like
that anyway we will derail so I'm just
going to say values America was a
America is a set of values the thing
that freaks me out Dear boys and girls
we are all controlled by ideas it's what
I call your frame of reference your
frame of reference is a distorted set of
all Life beer goggles that completely
warp and distort everything that you
see they are created by your your
beliefs your values and your biology and
they are going to determine not what you
look at but what you see so we can all
look at the same thing and see something
very different now when I was a kid
Americans roughly on average were
looking at this going whoa this is
amazing American dream I can have
whatever I wanted that set me up to go
gung-ho build businesses and and end up
changing the course of my entire
family's life to just think that you
could do it correct that was it it's
what I call the only belief that matters
if you believe that you can do it then
your behaviors will follow that if you
believe that that will be fruitless then
your behaviors will follow that uh now
the set of ideas that we are because you
asked earlier I don't know what holds us
together anymore and I don't either
because we are letting the values
atrophy we are letting the ideas atrophy
this is why politics is Downstream of
culture culture is simply the
transmission of ideas Okay so we've now
started transmitting a whole host of
wacky [ __ ] ideas now I love new ideas
I love when people test and try things
I'm just saying look at the data and so
we
are I would put forth moving in the
wrong direction on a lot of metrics that
people should really care about if
they're interested in human thriving
which is my Northstar we for sure could
lose a lot of time defining that but
that to me is where immigration becomes
a problem if you're are going to pour
into this country and assimilate like
mad and you're all going to uh if I'm
right adopt the Puritan mindset no one's
coming to save me I have to do this by
myself uh I'm going to work very hard
I'm not going to expect anybody to give
me anything I want to contribute
meaningfully to society I want to make
sure that what I build is Honorable
meaning that it lifts not only me but
other people as well uh that I'm going
to keep the majority of what I take but
I'm nested in a government this is not a
no government place and of course
there's going to be some degree of
social safety net blah blah blah but if
you had people really wanting to be here
for American reasons because we are the
Melting Pot but if people understand
looking at the external surface of
somebody's [ __ ] skin is moronic in
terms of determining whether or not
they're going to be able to contribute
meaningfully the thing you have to look
at is values and then this is rough and
I'm not sure what you do with this I
have ideas but you have to accept that
intellect is going to play a role yes so
uh my advice to build a country that I
want to keep living in would be to be
hyper selective around values and
intellect uh but if we are not going to
do that at a minimum values yeah because
when you have a c a country that does
not share values you will we talk about
this in Africa you always hear this oh
well it's crazy that the these two
groups were slaughtering each other but
that's because some stupid colonialists
just drew these circles around areas
that don't make any sense I am not a
scholar of that but I'm going to Hazard
to guess wasn't that you already had
people living in proximity that just
didn't share values and when they were
small and tribal and not under any sort
of unifying government it was fine they
could just sort of avoid each other and
go their own
way we seem to be rushing towards that
right now in America yeah well first off
that was beautifully said I agree with
actually every single word you said
right there and that's why I said we it
would be a waste of time for us to like
figure out what the numbers on are all
of that but the basic premise of what
you laid out there is absolutely right
and again we just don't know now because
and and the Twisted part the really
twisted part um we just don't know what
well we just don't know who's coming in
and why they're coming in and do they
want to be part of that and that CU we
don't know that's easy to solve if if we
had a if we had a border and there was a
door we don't know what the people
coming in believe yeah we don't know
what they those feel very different to
me which we don't know who's coming in
me solvable but I don't think actually
helps anything we don't know what the
people coming in believe no but those
are both true things if you become a
citizen of the United States you have to
say you always say this one you always
say we don't know and I just I'm I'm
confused as I don't know what that means
no well meaning if if we're to believe
the numbers that we're being told right
now that it's somewhere between 7 to 10
to 12 million people that have come in
in three years that's what everyone is
saying right now and are you saying if I
knew they were all from Paraguay I would
be fine if I knew they were all from
China I'd be freed out no I would still
want to have the first conversation
which is how many people should be
allowed to come in how many people do
you let in per day do these people have
family here are they just going to
immediately come in and be on the Dole
or are or or are they coming in with the
next great idea and invention and
everything else so all of the things
that you said I completely agree with
you can't just let everybody in without
knowing who they are where they are what
they're thinking what they want to do
and everything else but I will add even
the more nefarious part which would
connect us to the Democrat Party again
which is not only are it's the same
party right now that is telling people
that America is evil and it was founded
on racism and it's a colonialist project
and all of the horrible things that they
say about America that are also the same
party that wants the open borders and
also the same party that wants the big
government programs to put these people
into the system and become dependent on
the system that is a seriously toxic
completely counter to what you just said
vision for America right you want people
to come here with a dream and then come
into the system and provide something
for the S provide something for
themselves thus providing for the system
and bottom up building
the way that it's being presented right
now is the Democrats in essence whether
they're fully saying this I'm just
talking about their behavior their
behavior is the border is basically open
come in we're going to teach you all of
the wrong things at public school you're
going to be taught again that America
was founded on slavery that we're a
systemically racist country that were
all of these terrible things so now
you're going to hate we're going to
teach you to hate the place that you're
coming to and we're not going to teach
you about that American dream or
American exceptionalism or what the
founders were fighting or anything else
um and we're going to also give you
Services we're going to put you on the
Dole of other people thus increasing the
resentment of other people towards you
that is completely
unsustainable yeah I I couldn't agree
more I just don't hear people often
talking about assimilation values um
there's a great Thomas Soul quote I
think you like him at least as much as I
do yeah I'll paraphrase it because it
take me too long to look it up but uh
the rough quote goes like this in fact
Drew is going to search this up while I
give you the paraphrase um there is no
word that has ever been repeated more
times with no evidence as to its
efficacy and that word is diversity
diversity is a thing we must overcome to
have this beautiful thing called America
and that's pretty damn close when I read
that I was like holy [ __ ] that is
actually really true um we diversity of
approach super powerful seeing uh a
problem from a new angle very powerful
not sharing values hyper dangerous and
and I'm talking just I see everything
through the lens of an entrepreneur and
I'm like bro I I want homogeneity of
values in my company because I do not
want to be at war with the people of my
own company it's like let me lay out for
you what we are from a values
perspective uh if you think that's dope
and you can absolutely commit
manslaughter because you're so good at
your job uh you're you're a killer
that's going to clip out weird but uh
you're just an murderer at your job um
then now we've got something but if that
happens to mean that we are staffed
entirely by black lesbians I'm here for
it I I completely agree if it gives me a
mix great if it doesn't I literally I
don't care I want people to be good why
one of the things that I say on my show
all the time is that if you just sort of
Peel back the thin veneer of Tolerance
that the left talks about what you will
find is something very nasty underneath
it when they say diversity is our
strength it doesn't it doesn't mean
anything right for the reasons that you
just Illustrated if you have all of
these people that have horrific ideas
and terrible ideas blah and all this
stuff but their skin colors are all
different everything else that how is
that strong that's not strong it's just
messy it's messy and most likely toxic
and probably horrible and is going to
end in an Untold disaster but if you
have what you just laid out there which
is you don't care about their genitals
or their skin color or anything else but
you're like damn I want the best
Engineers the and then it turns out you
ended up with all black lesbian and I'll
add midgets into it that's a that's a
very Niche thing you got a whole bunch
of black lesbian [ __ ] Engineers kind
of an OA limpa situation you've saved
them from the animals and from their
country and things were falling apart
and you've done that that is pretty
great yeah I uh I do not understand
people not being obsessed with utility I
have an outcome that I desire and these
are the things things that lead me to
that outcome this is why I think people
really should take the time to lay out
their philosophy I haven't read Bin
Laden's um Manifesto letter to America
whatever it was but um from what I hear
he actually says this is why uh we hate
you this is the problem cool at least
now we know but when you have people
that don't take the time to lay out
their own philosophy they don't know
what they believe they're steering
entirely by emotion this is where you
run into trouble uh and if you don't
know what outcome you're trying to
achieve you don't know whether you're
marching towards it so we have all these
policies but we don't have kpis by which
we're holding these things accountable
to um it's pretty nuts what do you think
about what's going on in France so keep
France for the
French seems to be the headline takeaway
yeah um yeah what do you think about it
um well I would say that France just
like every other country exists as a
nation state to protect the interests of
the French people that is not
necessarily a skin color by the way say
is it racist to do that no it absolutely
isn't again every country exists the way
you get diverse Nations is that every
country gets to decide what it is the
country of Chad can behave in a certain
way for the people of Chad maybe it's
not always going to operate for the
people of Chad but it can have it can do
what it wants within those borders and
that's different than how Belgium or
than how uh El Salvador is going to
operate um what's happening in France
right now was a really strange
perversion of how Democrat Democratic
rule was supposed to be in that the the
party of the right I will not say far
right but the party of because if you
listen to Maren Le Pen who is the leader
of the what is thought of as the farri
party we've play we've played several of
her speeches on my show and if you
listen to her speeches she doesn't say
anything racist she doesn't she talks
about the love of France and the tra and
she talks about classic she literally
talks about classically liberal values
of that country and everything else what
she's upset by is that because of
leadership leftist leadership of the
last probably three decades but mostly
in the last 10 years they have led in
millions of
people most of them happen to be uh
Muslim but not all of them who have
ideas that are counter to French ideals
that are not liberal in nature that have
different views as it pertains to
women's rights that have different views
as it pertains to gays and other
minorities and everything else and they
won they had the most win they had the
most uh votes in the election but then
all of the far-left parties decided to
join together and basically override the
election so they really should have won
she should be the next president of
France but the far-left is going to be
in charge of France and France is in a
France is in serious trouble right now
serious trouble because it has been
getting worse and worse Paris is not the
Paris of forget Paris if you saw Billy
Crystal I think that came out in 1995
too um it is not that Paris anymore it
isn't and they and they the Jews are
going to have to get out of France I see
no I see no situation that this is going
to end well in France if the far-left
fully takes power there that is a very
big statement uh yeah you got a couple
you got a couple hundred thousand Jews
left in France the system has made it
clear that it doesn't care for them and
if you're going to have people what way
has the system made it
clear there is an obvious truth here
that if you get to a certain percentage
in these countries
of you have you get to a certain amount
of Islamic immigration into these
countries and they and the people decide
not to embrace French values the same
the same thing that you just talked
about from an American perspective I
wouldn't care about anyone's religion if
someone came into a country and said oh
but I I'm an American first I'm a French
first I believe in the founding
aspirational documents here in America
or I believe in the founding principles
of France and I believe this is a
multicultural France is a multicultural
place I they've had people from all over
the world that have lived in France you
don't just walk into France and only see
white people obviously you see black
people and Asians and everything else um
it's not as open as America because
America as you said was an idea that
everyone could come here so it's it's
different than that France is also older
and everything else um but when you let
in a certain amount of people generally
from a specific religion it does not
work out for well well for people in
other religions or minorities that
that's just a truth it's extremely
uncomfortable to talk about yeah so
you're
specifically
Muslims if you were there are 22 Arab
states that are basically all Muslim
states there are virtually no Jews left
in any of them there are basically no
Christians left in any of them there's a
couple Coptic Christians left in Egypt
there's a reason for that um the more
that London has become uh islamicized or
whatever word you want to call it the
worse it has gotten for other people the
these that's just true it's just true I
don't know exact every country has to
decide what they want to do with that
the Dutch just elected ger Builders he's
largely against this type of immigration
and is promising to deport people we'll
see I'm not for Deport I would never be
for deporting the the Muslim family who
operates the same way every other family
does in America and is abiding by the
laws and all of those other things
obviously uh but if you have people that
are importing all of these bad ideas and
then behaving outside the Realms of Law
and then you see these protests that
we're now seeing all over the place
where they're literally you know they're
celebrating terrorist organizations
avowed terrorist organizations that that
have stated goals of genocide again it's
one of those things how long can
that stand for so I would say to people
in France if you're a minority in France
right now why would the intersectional
government the leftists Align with the
jihadists with the radical gays and all
that thing is not going to work for very
long it's going to descend into chaos
very
quickly how much daylight is between
your views on Muslims and Sam
Harris's um I mean I to be totally
honest with you I haven't listened to
Sam in quite some time so I don't know
where he's at say in the last two years
as it relates to all this but I again I
don't want to frame it I wouldn't want
to frame it as Muslims per se what would
be the right way for me to understand
what you're saying it's just one of
these things it's like annoying to talk
about in some respect if because it's so
hot yeah because it's so hot and it will
just it can be clipped in any which way
that will come off the wrong way um I
get using sentences that are going to be
hard to get out but I do want to
understand like even if so for instance
I I haven't thought enough about this
problem to give you a specific take on
that but I believe that people should be
able to think up from first principles
okay so let's let's try it this way so
can you give me a place in the world
that is Muslim majority or run by
Muslims that is good for anyone else
besides Muslims or even good for women
or other minorities that may be Muslim
like gays
um I have no idea but that's knowing
what you don't know not that oh my god
I've looked everywhere and I can't find
an answer um but basically I think here
here's how I would approach the problem
and and this is hey dear internet I'm
very open to people helping me actually
um think through this problem better but
so when I don't know the history or I
don't know the specifics of a situation
uh that to me I don't think it is
helpful for people to think of it as
like oh I don't have to think about that
um I think people should practice
Thinking Up From First principles
knowing that I will not be able to give
you any specifics about Muslim
immigration but I can tell you what
would need to be true for this to work
so um I'm going to skip sort of the
first part of physics as it would be a
waste of time in this conversation go
right to the way human psychology works
okay the way human psychology works we
know that people are super tribal um so
we also know that for humans to work
together flexibly in large groups
religion is one of the most powerful
ways that we get very large numbers of
people uh to work together there's a
memeification of the belief system that
travels in story through religion so
already if I have religions that are
coming together I know oo I have a
potential friction point because they do
such a good job of triggering uh tribal
stances and that they create um very or
they allow for the very clear
communication of value sets so now when
you have religion V religion you don't
have sort of that secular like oh I
haven't thought about that and oh cool
you're introducing me to a new idea word
it's like no no no we we don't eat food
like that you don't eat food like that
we don't dress like that you don't dress
like that so you you ratchet up in a big
way the potential for conflict because
you have very clearly defined values
that are easy to disseminate uh amongst
the population that have all these
visual cues to each other as like ooh
I'm on one team you're on another okay
so now I'm like I don't know if one
religion is better or worse I just know
that religions tend to have a collision
point now in America for a long time
there's been I don't know how people
feel about this but from where I'm
sitting it feels like a watering down of
some of those principles it's become far
more secular uh and so that's one of the
ways that we've dealt with it is I think
this will be backed up by data but I do
not have data this is just 48 years of
being an American um we don't have as
strong of Orthodox communities those are
going to be much smaller we have them
but that's not like the super present
thing uh I think that can be empirically
proven by the way there's a lot of dat
it is an empirical question I just don't
have the answer okay so uh now you go
all right if we have religions that are
immigrating to the United States or to
France wherever and they don't want to
assimilate now I'm getting nervous uh
again this does not yet trigger me as
like oh this is a Muslim problem this
could be an IRA Problem whatever it's
just any problem where I have a
religious element they're easily easy to
ident identify and they are colliding
with another religion uh and if neither
of those religions are leaning into the
sort of moderate secular angle you're
you're going to have woses and so then
it's like okay well we better have some
way if politics is Downstream of culture
we better have some way at the level of
culture to address this because if we
don't you're just going to have these
tribes that grow grow grow until they
either secularize or they Collide in
spectacular fashion or one beheads the
other which is basically that would be
Collide in a spectacular fashion so the
the bet I don't know enough to make
myself is whether the Orthodoxy in
people that are um coming in bringing
Islam with them if the Orthodoxy is such
that they will not become secular they
will not integrate into the value system
of the country if they won't again this
goes for any religion there's going to
be a collision and that if we are both
right and you said who said it first but
whoever said that politics is Downstream
culture I think everything is Downstream
of culture because that's one of the
biggest ways to manipulate your own uh
frame of reference so if we cannot get a
shared frame of reference you will have
a collision but again Sam Harris has a
take that um it is particularly
pronounced in the Muslim faith that the
Orthodoxy becomes so extreme around the
idea of a caliphate this is where now
I'm just into ignorance I don't know
enough about it um but you'll have that
set up with any religion right so again
I I can't speak to exactly what Sam is
talking about but the principle you just
laid out there I think is correct and I
would I would also say
that not all of not all religions just
like not all ideas are equal so if you
were just to look at the big three
monotheistic religions of Judaism Islam
and Christianity Judaism doesn't prze so
they're not out there looking for
converts right it's extremely difficult
to convert to J ISM so that's that's
very fundamentally different than a
religion that is out there looking to to
evangelize now what's different so Islam
and Christianity both evangelize they
want more people to convert to them but
that doesn't mean that they're equal
either because if a whole bunch of
Christian even if a bunch of Christian
missionaries move into your community
the chance they may talk to you about
Christianity they may welcome you over
for a potluck and show you their
lifestyle and try to get you to come on
Sunday to pray with them and everything
else um you have very little chance that
it's going to escalate to anything
beyond that if a bunch of let's say more
again this is where the words are all
sort of muddled but if you had
more radical elements of Muslim people
moving into your neighborhood there is
every reason to believe that they would
be encroaching on you more and more or
how do you think they would be treating
the Jews that live there or the other
minorities or the gays or anything else
that is just fundamental different
America which is a largely Christian
country right that's why the left seems
seemingly hates America um also is
widely accepting of virtually every type
of minority actually it celebrates every
type of minority which is also bizarre
like you don't have to celebrate that
somebody likes to wear a furry costume
and run around putting someone on a dog
leash you they can do that if they want
but you don't have to celebrate it so
they are different but they are not all
the same even just by their actions and
I think that's an important distinction
to make yeah yeah uh this is all but
also I would say all that being said I'm
by no means am I an election expert as
it pertains to the French we're just
talking about like the broad trends that
we're seeing across Europe right now
where Hungary doesn't have this problem
because they Clos their borders and
people say they're racist and again I
never got the Imp implication that Orban
was racist um England has this hu this
huge same problem that they have as I
just said the the Netherlands just voted
in somebody thought of as on the far
right Italy did the same thing so these
countries are just responding to things
it's not it's not racist to want Italian
culture to be preserved you can decide
what your immigration policies are look
it's japanish are you sure about that
yeah let me paint a picture and this may
be where you're headed yeah oh God uh
okay interesting idea I am simply trying
to understand how the world really works
yeah I am a japanophile y i Absolut my
favorite place on planet Earth is Tokyo
I could not so funny so my producer
sitting here on the way driving here [ __ ]
Japan is the one place that I've never
been to that I really want to go Dave
Ruben and we were talking about taking
the whole team there yeah from the first
time 1985 I saw the back in Super Mario
Brothers on Nintendo made in Japan I was
like I have to go to this place rightly
so and you will be greeted by uh manga
characters and video game characters
everywhere really I could see why you'd
be very happy
there I I love virtually everything
about it it's absolutely awesome yeah uh
but I have a feeling it's racist and
there is just a sea of Japanese people
when you look out and I know enough
expats that live there that during covid
they were like bro uh you've got obese
85y olds that will get a shot before um
a a foreigner who's like or sorry you'll
get a healthy 14-year-old that will get
a shot before an obese 85 year-old
that's a foreigner they're like they
just man it it all goes in like how
Japanese are you and they're going to
prioritize that now the thing is I love
the culture that is produced and so the
fact that they have kept people out for
as long as they have uh has created
something interesting and so God I
absolutely do not endorse racism in any
way shape or form okay but I will say
that keeping Japan for the Japanese is
interesting okay so maybe the word so I
think the word racism has become too
toxic to maybe apply exactly to what
you're saying can we call it school of
fish yeah it's it's more like that in
that that sounds a little bit softer and
and is illustrating it's a lot softer
Japanese want to hang with Japanese fair
enough and and I don't think that makes
them racist per se you are allow again
you are allowed it's why we are not it's
why the song Imagine is so idiotic and
everyone thinks it's so brilliant so
brilliant if we just had no borders and
we had no nothing well that yes in
fantasy land that doesn't have anything
to do with how humans operate or
fantasy yes if we had this Pure Fantasy
Land then sure well so this is
interesting did did this contribute to
bad things uh politics is Downstream of
culture songs are really powerful
culturally um I think that song is
Beautiful in its
aspiration I get that it's not literally
how we should the problem the problem
yeah give the problem with I'm not a
Beatles guy in general also by the way I
really despise not that I am it's just
noise it's a lot of noise happening at
once there um but the problem with that
song is not yes so well I'm not exactly
sure it's aspirational actually it's fan
it's it's a fantasy not necessar
aspirational what would be aspirational
would be that oh every you can live the
way you want to live and you can live
amongst people that are somewhat like
you and that will that will create human
flourishing and someone else can do it
another way it's more of a fantasy to be
like we will have no borders we will
have no differences and everything else
that actually sounds very dystopian in a
certain sense like we will just because
ultimately that leads us to all being
the same and I don't think that that's
good I don't think you think that that's
good either and that I would say is well
no that might so wow we have to get
specific about what we mean by the same
but before we do that let me introduce
an idea so uh there's a Guerilla troop
or chimpanzee I think chimpanzee troop
uh studied by the guy who wrote
determined somebody look him up for me
me um Stanford Professor absolutely
brilliant guy anyway uh there was this
um they there were a bunch of the um
chimpanzees that were eating out of like
these dumpsters and the dumpsters got
tainted meat and it killed basically all
of the more um aggressive males that
would go and sort of dominate this
garbage heap and so after all of them
died they were left with this um sort of
really chill calm largely female L uh
group of chimps or baboons
and it stayed like that for Generations
because what each of them learned
because they would even bring in um
people from other tribes other monkey
troops they would come in and they would
be like no no no we don't do that
violent [ __ ] here and they were just
like oh cool like I I'm going to um
adapt to the Norms of this group again
politics being Downstream of culture
even in monkeys
surely somebody has found the name of
this man by now uh he wrote the book
determined um
and it that to me is really interesting
because it does put forth that if you
can get the cultural soup right that you
can really change Behavior tremendously
now I actually am a believer on the
political stage of real politi so please
don't anybody get confused about what I
think is real right and I think the
truest statement that has ever been made
in in preo even with governments the
strong will do as they will and the weak
will suffer as they must that just is uh
but nonetheless I think that that again
is Downstream of biology and
values so you would basically say that
the the monkey or chimpanzee or gorilla
group that you're talking about is in
some ways that that's a parable for
Japan is what you're saying basically
right I'm saying that um by being all
the quote unquote same if by same we
mean values you can create a value
system that output something so awesome
that as an American I'm just like in awe
of the culture that they produce
so I think that America is the only
place I want to live I'm not moving to
Japan anytime soon I have a bad feeling
I would never be able to get business
done there because I am an outsider uh
but nonetheless I love and appreciate
what they've created I love being a part
of the Melting Pot I just want everybody
to look at the reality of what you get
so to me all of these situations are
held together by values not skin color
it just so happens that uh from an
evolutionary standpoint yes it used to
be very hard to travel and so people
would effectively interbreed and so we
all looked a certain way Europeans look
a certain way I mean you can tell the
difference between a European and an
Eastern European just by the way their
face looks we can all agree on that uh
and you go over into Asia say thing it
all just fragments out and for a very
long time we're all isolationists out of
necessity from that is born these
incredibly unique cultures and so I'm
just saying hey let's all take a realist
view at this stuff and say by Japan
being so insular you get one thing that
is a very amazing product the US has
done something different and it's
created a very amazing product and and I
guess what you would say the danger part
would be then is if Japan started trying
to export that across the world through
force and as long as they're not doing
that then they can have their islands
and it's just fine and it's just fine
and if you don't want to be part of it
they're not forcing any of the American
expats that are obese that want the co
shot to stay there and then get going so
whether we want to call that racist I
just I I just don't think that's largely
helpful for someone trying to understand
this because the word has been so
mangled and everything else but I have
no problem with Japan being for Japanese
people and them deciding what uh
immigration ation policy is right for
them the same way that America should do
it and but as you've Illustrated several
times we have a different founding ethos
so our immigration policy is going to be
broader and more wide and less racially
uh connotated than theirs will be the
those are just different
things yeah play the scenarios out I
think that's the only way to put
together an immigration policy that will
yield the outcomes that you want you
have to define the outcomes that you
want like we want to be the nation that
says yeah give us your poor you're tired
you're weak you're hungry huddled masses
send them our way and then real
politique uh which John mimer if you
guys don't know who he is look him up um
it is uh people will exploit the system
so you have to understand okay what are
the ways in which this will be exploited
do we want to let that happen do we want
to stop that from happening uh but it
becomes a very interesting question I
think maybe maybe we got into this when
I had you on my show a couple weeks ago
but what uh what generation are you in
America and where what I'm Gen X no no
no no I know you're Gen X what
generation in terms of your lineage of
your family like who came here first oh
I don't think we talked about this uh my
great
grandfather had a German
accent on one side and Dutch on the
other but both great grandparents okay
so your great-grandparents came from the
Netherlands and from Germany that they
came here I'm going to guess the family
story they pretty much came with nothing
right correct and they got probably to
Ellis Island first I don't know that one
of them jumped ship not literally he
refused to reboard but you get the idea
okay but they came they basically had
nothing and then America promised them
hey you got a shot you tired tired and
poor and huddled masses and then they
worked real hard just like my it's my
great grandparents and actually one of
them was from Holland also worked real
hard given nothing my grandfather lived
in uh tenement building one bedroom six
kids his father my great-grandfather
died when he was 2 years old and they
had to move into to uh Somewhere in
Brooklyn with his uncle and then it was
like 12 kids in a two-bedroom all of
that stuff you know they basically had
nothing his first job he always used to
tell me how he died when I was in second
grade but I remember him always telling
me that his first job was for it was a
quarter like but that dream then they he
then he he was a lithographer he was
lower middle class but worked real hard
they lived in Brooklyn then my dad uh
grew up in that he became solidly middle
class they moved to the suburbs Long
Island that's where I grew up I grew up
solidly middle class starting to get to
upper middle class and then now I'm
obviously I guess you would say it was
it was upper class my children will grow
with that I hope that I'm able to fill
them up with all of the right ideas so
that they're able to do like Amazing
Adventures one day and everything else
and not be discriminated against because
they were born with a little something
or because of the color of their skin or
anything else that really is the dream
that's the thing that you want to that
we both want to perpetuate and we want
to sell and for some reason America
hasn't been able to sell that as well so
that's the particularly perverse part of
when a certain set of people are just
like open borders for everybody and also
this place is horrible then you bring in
a whole host of problems that we are now
seeing everywhere which is why there's
this incredible video we played on my
show a couple weeks ago maybe you saw it
of uh there's a community center
somewhere in Chicago that's largely uh
it's mostly black people that go to this
community center it now because Chicago
have became a Sanctuary city is now been
overrun by illegal immigrants and now
the black people of Chicago in this
particular area are pissed and they are
rightfully pissed because they had a
community center where they could go
swimming and play basketball and maybe
drop their kids off after school and now
it's been overrun by people that again
we don't know if they will love this
country or anything else and I'm also
going to guess that when your
grandparents got here that they busted
their ass your great-grandparents busted
their ass and worked and they didn't get
they didn't give German immigrants
anything just like they didn't give
Italian immigrants anything or Irish
immigrants or Jewish immigrants or
anything else it was just the freaking
chance and and that roll of the dice is
way better than anything we're being
sold right now yeah uh it is interesting
my family is full of amazing people and
total lunkheads so it's uh is it 5050
what's the what's the percentage that's
the question generous that's generous uh
love my family to death but like
anybody's family they are of course of
course but but that's also the beauty of
Freedom you know you have people that
grow up that are going to be the
children of billionaires that will have
every opportunity in the world that will
screw up everything or die of drugs or
blah blah blah and then you have the
story that we all love of the guy who
came with nothing and then becomes the
star and that like that all of that is
the gestal of America and that that is
the thing that is so freaking precious
that we better hold on to yeah all right
let's talk about the thing that a
president can actually influence which
is foreign policy um what do you want to
see happen in 2024 with Ukraine with um
Israel Palestine like what what is the
right path to walk I mean look the
Ukraine thing is just unbelievably
complex again because we hit it briefly
before but at the end Putin has nukes
you cannot beat him militarily in that
sense so we can keep funding Ukraine to
keep trying to get back territory and
you may not like that he encroached on
Ukraine in the first place and he's not
a good guy in no way a Putin defender or
anything else he didn't want NATO at his
borders which actually because I believe
in Sovereign Nations I understand why he
didn't want that he didn't want you know
basically gii Joe in like a perverse
sense to be at his border and be able to
just take his country or if that's what
he felt was going to happen or whatever
um Ukraine is also a giant there's a
huge money laundering operation there
and it's not as uh you know we keep this
idea that we're selling Freedom through
Ukraine or something is extremely I
would say tenuous at best um I think the
only way Ukraine gets solved is probably
that they are going sorry that that
Ukraine gets solved is that they're
going to uh have to concede some land to
Russia there are plenty of Russian
native speakers that want to be part of
Mother Russia I don't see any way around
that again you cannot beat them
militarily so I think that just kind of
it just is what it is and it needs I
also think the American Appetite for it
is you know there's a there's a I think
more cogent argument around Israel and
values and everything else that we've
discussed here that I think you can sell
to people but the Ukraine thing is
starting to feel also because there's
such weirdness the Biden family in
Ukraine and everything else it's just
messy and it needs to come to some kind
of negotiated end that is not going to
make is certainly not going to make all
of the hardcore Ukraine people happy the
Israel situation is much more simple all
they need is the help they need some
diplomatic help because they're under
constant diplomatic assault they they're
a country the size of New Jersey that
basically is like eight miles wide which
is so UNF unfathomable to think of they
have one international airport I mean
it's an obscenely tiny country in a
really tough part of the world
surrounded by Nations that don't want
them to be there they never wanted them
to be there and don't want them to be
there um I think they they obviously
have every right to be there and if you
think whether you're a Believer or not I
mean Jesus of Nazareth that is the
modern Israel of today and he was Jewish
but let's not we don't have to do the
the history lesson the the thing that we
can do for Israel is basically say to
them um you have diplomatic support you
have the military support you need and
you have diplomatic support to root this
terrorist organization out and then uh
root this terrorist organization out
meaning talking about Hamas and Gaza and
then the much bigger problem though is
that Lebanon is basically a failed State
that's run by Hezbollah which is a a
Shia Terror organization run from Iran
right so the Lebanese government right
now has nothing to do with what's
happening in Lebanon so every day
hundreds of rockets are being shot into
Israel we wouldn't tolerate one rocket
being shot from Canada into Detroit we'd
bomb Mexico so like they have to like
there is a much bigger War happening
there because Hezbollah is much stronger
than Hamas I was in Israel about a year
and a half ago this is well before
October 7th and all anyone was talking
about was the incoming war with uh
Lebanon not the war not anything to do
with Gaza there was not one Jew in Gaza
no one wanted anything to do with Gaza
there was a fence which clearly proved
not to be effective but nobody was like
oh we want Gaza we want they gave Gaza
away they wanted nothing to do with it
Egypt built a hell of a freaking wall to
stop any gazin coming in from Egypt uh
any gazin going into Egypt um so that
one
I think all we can do is basically give
them some military support and some
diplomatic efforts as the world kind of
turns against them but but the again the
bumper sticker thing would be peace
through strength you show the world that
you're strong and then the world doesn't
do crazy things Donald Trump I think is
completely right when he says that
Ukraine would not have happened under
him look he we have evidence of that
right um uh what's the region in Ukraine
that they took under Obama sorry I'm
blanking for a second not Don not
Georgia H Crimea thank you thank you
that was up at 5 a.m this morning um
they took Crimea right so Russia took
Crimea under Barack Obama and we did
nothing now I'm not saying we should
have done anything but Putin did a test
under Obama right and the test was oh uh
Obama doesn't do anything when I make
moves then we had Trump for four years
nothing happened then we got Biden and
we had this Invasion so there's there's
empirical evidence to look at that when
you have peace through strength you know
what did two things that Trump did very
early in the president presidency that
everyone thought he was completely
insane he dropped the Moab remember that
the mother of all bombs he dropped it
and everyone was like oh my God it's
going to start World War oh no he did
three things mother World bombs he drops
this massive bomb it's not a nuke but
it's this massive bomb he drops the bomb
everyone's like my God it's G to start
World War I nothing happens but but what
it made is our our foes in the world be
like what the hell is this guy doing he
just drops big bombs for no reason then
he moved the embassy to Jerusalem the
American Embassy to Jerusalem which is
the capital of Israel everyone said my
God it's going to start World War II
nothing happened absolutely nothing
happened um and then uh and then of
course he created these peace deals and
everyone said oh my God if you do all
these peace deals without the
Palestinians all hell is going to break
loose but it wasn't true and more were
were coming down the pike and
unfortunately he didn't get a second
term to make it happen so all it is oh
and he killed uh Soloman uh the Iranian
General so if you lead with strength I'm
not for war I'm not for nation building
well to say I'm not for war it's just a
silly phrase like that's what the
pacifist say all the time I'm for war
when it is just but I am certainly not
for nation building I think we should
scale back all of this if you told me we
were blowing apart the foreign aid uh by
50% overnight I would be for it um as
long as it was equal across the board
and we're not singling out countries and
all of that stuff as I said before it's
not good for our allies to be so
dependent on us but I believe in peace
through strength if you have red lines
you have to hold them um Reagan knew
that it's what ended the Cold War these
are like basic obvious principles the
idea that you can just get out there and
be like oh every you know we're just
whatever and that's what America that's
what we project right now uh that's why
it's very likely that this summer
especially with what's going on with
Biden why wouldn't if China's plan
really is to take Taiwan which is
basically what they're saying and what
everyone believes why wouldn't you do it
right now wouldn't it wouldn't this be
the greatest opportunity to do it do it
right before the election as everyone
thinks the president of the United
States has dementia like it would be
pretty great time to do it if you were
if you were Iran and you really wanted
this war to go hot if you thought this
was actually your chance to get Israel
in an existential War why wouldn't you
ramp it up right now so there's a lot I
think there's just a I mean this
connects us directly to the beginning of
the conversation but there is a lot of
seriously bad energy in the system that
could be used by people who just want to
nudge us one way or another right now
which that's probably the most dangerous
thing about a Biden presidency right now
it's not really whether he's in charge
or not it's whether the people or the
countries or forces that would love to
do damage to the world or to the United
States are with willing to take
advantage of it and that's the total X
Factor in this cuz that has nothing to
do with however we vote or anything else
do you think Trump will actually be able
to end the war in
Ukraine yeah yeah it's like what does he
do he negotiates you know it's funny I I
do you watch did you ever watch reality
TV or were you a reality TV guy at all
the only show that I ever watched
reality TV I swear was a Celebrity
Apprentice I don't know why I turned it
on one day I I haven't had cable in like
20 years but I had cable back then it
was on NBC I turned it on one day and
Joan Rivers was on I guess that's why I
watch it I really like Joan Rivers she
ended up winning That season um and what
does Trump do he negotiates he sets
people up against each other he keeps
everybody guessing you know you think
he's going to fire one person that
episode next thing you knew he fired
three people and like that is the magic
of trump that is the that is the Mastery
of trump that's what his book was about
like that is the thing that allowed him
to be an unbelievably successful real
estate developer in New York which is
certainly not easy to do um so I think
there's every reason to believe that he
would either
uh he would call zalinski or he would
call Putin or he'd call them both and he
might say to Putin listen this thing
wraps up soon or you're really going
we're going to escalate this in a way
that you just will have no idea what
we're going to do and there would be
reason to believe that might be true as
I just Illustrated or what's what's
probably more appropriate is he'll say
to zansky listen the gravy Train's over
so you're going to have to concede some
ground I'm sorry it's not exactly what
we all wanted and you and it may be
unjust and Putin may be evil um but
we're just we wrapping this thing up and
then zalinski would have to wrap it up
so I think there's every reason to
believe we I think Trump also he said
that October 7th never would have
happened under his watch I think there's
every reason to believe that I don't
think Iran would have had the balls to
do it or even right now there are eight
American hostages somewhere in Gaza
Americans Americans nobody knows their
names right Joe Biden has not uttered
their name once we could have ended all
of this on October 8th all he had to do
was call Qatar which is a tiny tiny
country that is in Crazy amounts of
money into our University system and
everything else we know where the
leadership of Hamas are they're all
billionaires by the way and they have
private jets and they live in the Mander
and Oriental I think and everything else
and all we had to do is say um okay you
have one week to release the hostages or
we're blowing up Qatar I'm not I don't
like the idea of blowing up Qatar or
killing anyone that's innocent but again
it's peace through strength you show
people there are credible threats you're
going to release the Amer you wouldn't
even had to had said release the
Israelis release the Americans but we
haven't even done that so this this week
neither here nor there thing that we're
doing it's it's bad for Americans like
does that make any look you have
obviously great resources all welld
deserved in everything else like when
you travel you you could have a Target
on your back for whatever reason right
it's like and I I could anyone forget
resources or anything else if you're an
American and you go to another country
right now and you you go to Mexico and
there's gangs and they kidnap you why
would you have belief that America is
going to do anything about you I don't
know that that is a problem and we
that's what we're projecting right now
okay so um as you think about Trump
coming into office
um if if we're going to play our hand
well in Israel Palestine I see the path
that you laid out in um the Ukraine but
what is the similar path in Israel
Palestine well first off just on the
semantic side it's not exactly Israel
Palestine it's Israel Gaza because
Palestine was never a country there was
no prime minister there it was a there
was the British Mandate of Palestine
which is historic Judea and Samaria and
Israel itself and everything but again
we don't have to do a history lesson on
that but I think it's wor we brought it
up so it's worth discussing a little bit
just because people get very confused by
that yes so I I am familiar enough with
this argument that it's fascinating yeah
but I don't think it's going to change
anyone's mind so are you assum uh I'll
I'll lay out my best understanding of
this and you tell me if I go astray uh
my understanding goes like this
somewhere in the around 67 people first
start using the phrase the people of
Palestine uh because that begs the
question well if there was a people of
Palestine then there must have been a
nation state of Palestine and also
triggers a UN resolution that any
peoples uh have the ability to
self-determination and therefore can
defend themselves Etc and so they want
to get World opinion around the fact
that these guys have a right to defend
themselves
um is that accurate uh mostly ACC well
well well no I mean in essence what
you're saying is there there were never
a people known as Palestinians meaning
that there was the British Mandate of
palestin and Jews live there and some
Christians live there and Drews live
there and BNS live there and everything
else and you can look at people could
look at it right now find New York Times
headlines from pre-modern state of
Israel there were it wasn't Jews versus
Palestinians it was Jews it was Jews I'm
trying figure out why you bring that up
why would you want to be careful to
outline that well it's not really
against Palestine it's because pal
because it implies that Palestine was a
was a nation state unto itself they're
fight they're fighting a terrorist group
that exists in Gaza right now Gaza a
place that not one Jew or Israeli has
lived since 2005 they left unilaterally
they left them infrastructure everybody
goes oh [ __ ] I didn't know that do you
think they'll be like oh word just keep
bombing now that I know that they're not
people no but I think it's I think I
don't well I would say for someone like
you that clearly cares about details and
getting sort of like a chronology right
and everything else it's I think it's
worth noting that's all I would say we
don't have to get we don't have to get
too lost really interesting but this is
one that I'm like okay if people are
going to make a compelling
argument I I don't think that's the
one compelling argument for what that uh
I have a feeling the compelling argument
that you I've heard you make it before
so I know it's basically Israel has a
right to defend itself uh that we as the
people not at War should not be spending
our time telling them how to conduct
this war um and by the way they weren't
even a people anyway this is a
collection of Arabs that happen to share
this land the Israel um Israelis have
just as much of a right to from a
historical context but they've also
offered them a state at least six times
they said no every time yeah right my
beef on the way that people approach
Israel Palestine yeah is that uh it's
what my wife and I refer to as don't
argue about the tea so the argument is
happening at the level of like the
surface detail like uh the word palestin
wasn't first used or Palestinian wasn't
used until
1967 uh it was a British protectorate
before that Ottoman Empire before that
it's or on the other side like this is
our ancestral Homeland we have a right
to be here um and Israelis should you
know leave it's like H that's not the
argument sure sure so we can we can punt
all that if you want well I I think that
to have unless so there's two paths
before us discuss policy on how to
handle the war or discuss based
assumptions as to um whether Israel
should exist or not because that that
seems to be the Crux of the matter that
everything else is window dressing and
this is just a question of hey dear
person hearing my voice right now do you
believe that the um that Israel has the
right to an ethnocentric state that it
is for Jewish people because that at
least with my and this I'm very very
much not uh well educated here but it is
my understanding that there are Arabs in
there but if you were to two million
there are two million who have been on
the Supreme Court and who are doctors
and lawyers is it true and maybe you can
just clear my ignorance is it true that
if they just did a one for one vote that
uh Jewish people would be outvoted by
non-jews no well first off okay so this
is going to be very complex so if we
were counting all of all of the land the
historic Biblical land of Israel meaning
the West Bank and Gaza itself the
numbers start changing but Palestinians
the only the only time the Palestinian
people have ever been able to vote or
have any autonomy over themselves is
when Israel gave it to them in the Oslo
Accords in the 90s before that they were
always rule ruled by other people that's
one part uh the other part is that
before October 7th no literally there
was nobody in Israel nobody in anywhere
in anything close to mainstream Israel
that was cared about her in politics
that wanted anything to do with Gaza
before 1967 it was part of Egypt that's
going to be disputed in the comments
yeah I mean it's just there was nobody I
mean like there was nobody BB nobody
wanted anything to do with it they left
they wanted nothing to do with it okay
there were you know what the sick and
there are many sick and twisted things
that happened on October 7th one of the
most sick and twisted is that the people
the Israelis that lived in the Gaza area
over there they were all leftists
because they wanted to live in some sort
of coexistence with these people and
then what happened and I went to some of
the kutzas down there to see the
devastation and it's to say it's
unimaginable isn't even close to what it
really is um but the one of the ways
that they were able to kill so many
people is that they had people that came
from Gaza they had work permits and they
would come and in many cases they worked
with these people a lot of them were
agriculture Farmers they worked with
them for years and years sometimes
decades and they knew how many people
lived in each house how many men women
children and they marked it on the doors
so that the the Hamas terrorists would
then come in and then kill everybody and
know how many people they had to kill or
where they might be or where the safe
room was or a whole bunch of other stuff
but without getting into all of that the
if you want like what the political
solution is or what's like the what's
like the day after all of this Hamas as
as an organization needs to be destroyed
it needs it is a terrorist organization
that needs to be blown apart that
largely has been taken care of there are
very few Rockets left um if you want
like what does the day after look like
in terms of structure what does a
government look like with the roughly 2
million people who live in Gaza it
probably well it should be Egypt that
basically takes Gaza you know sin is
right between Egypt proper and Israel
and Israel had Sinai which it won in a
war it's like eight times bigger than
Israel proper they gave it up for a
piece of paper for a peace deal that
largely has existed for about 50 years
um since right around when we were born
um the thing is that Egypt
Unfortunately they don't want any of the
Palestinians there and no by the way no
no Arab country wants any of the
Palestinians if anyone cared about the
Palestinians right like if if anyone
believed that there was a genocide
occurring which there isn't but if
anyone believe that why hasn't there 22
Arab Nations as we talked about before
they have tons and tons of money they
have tons and tons of resources they
have 500 square mile 500 what is it 500
square miles of land something it's more
than that um 500 million square miles of
land I think it is um you could put them
all in Sinai no Israeli is ever going to
go there no Jews ever going to go there
no Christians ever going to go there you
could give them a country there you want
to give them a country they have a
country it's called Jordan Jordan is
Palestinian uh majority actually and
it's ruled by the hashimite king uh King
Abdullah of Jordan he is ruling an
apartheid Nation the only nation the
only literally the only nation in the
Middle East that doesn't have apartheid
is Israel the Arabs have equal rights
and again sit on the Supreme Court and
have all the jobs in Lebanon if you are
Palestinian you are not allowed to own a
certain amount of land you are not
allowed to be a doctor or a lawyer or a
series of other things again people can
Google All this so every other nation in
the the um the
Maldives you're only allowed to be
Muslim to live there that's not the way
it is in Israel um so there's one nation
that exists in the Middle East that is
anything remotely close to Liberal
values or Progressive ideology or
anything else where women are treated
well and gays are treated well and all
the rest of it and ironically that's the
place that the progressives hate the
most so I guess Egypt has to take some
responsibility for that the problem is
that Egypt has been building all these
tunnels that's why everybody doesn't
want Israel to go in now to Rafa which
is the last border part basically to to
Gaza and Egypt because clearly Egypt has
been defaulting on its peace agreement
and helping a lot of this stuff be built
so that's a huge problem right there and
then I don't know exactly what you do
with all of the West Bank it's it's a
these may be largely intractable
problems um but I can tell you this when
I was there just a few months ago I got
in a a car from a cab from Jerusalem to
uh to a suburb of Tel Aviv and I was in
with with an Arab Israeli so he's an
Arab Muslim full citizen of Israel and
we talked about it and he does not want
to live anywhere else he knows that he
is a minority in that country um but he
doesn't want to live anywhere else
because he has more rights and more of
an opportunity than literally in any
other Arab Nation so it's a very weird
it's weird to say the least okay so uh
several questions yeah I said a lot of
things there no no it's great and thank
you for helping to educate me on this so
uh
Israel uh has a problem in that they
border people that uh some percentage of
them obviously wish them
harm why doesn't any why doesn't any of
the surrounding areas why don't any of
the surrounding areas want uh to
assimilate
Gaza so meaning why doesn't Egypt just
want to take Gaza ispt the only other
country that borders Egypt is the only
country that borders Gaza so why won't
and by the way Egypt had Gaza pre 1967
and then they launched the war and lost
and Israel got Gaza and then Israel had
Gaza from' 67 until 2005 and then they
were and there were about 8,000 Jews
that lived there that's it that's what
the settlements were um and they
basically in 2005 they were like forget
this it's not going to work we want
nothing to do with these people there is
no such they're not going to peace or
coexist let's just separate and
unfortunately what they did is they
built a wall that was basically a fence
I mean I saw it and you you can watch
the October 7th videos built a fence
that had some barbed wire the Egyptians
have you ever seen what the the Egypt
Gaza border looks like you should Google
it sometime they have massive concrete
walls with huge amounts of barbed wire
and ditches and they blew up tunnels and
everything else if the Israelis ever
treated the Palestinians nearly as
poorly as the Egyptians had the world
would be in a a complete uproar but in
terms of geography the only country that
it borders and and again Sinai is
largely empty Sinai is lar yeah if you
can that that's the Egyptian border W
you're looking at right there and then
if you compare that right there and
that's just a portion of it but you can
see cement blocks you can see
multi-layers of barbed wire there's
electronic surveillance etc etc and they
were blowing up underground tunnels um
and if you look from the octob October
7th videos of the uh wall that is the
wall it was a fence that they had with
Gaza it was a it was a far worse fence
than you have at your house right here
which your gate is pretty damn
impressive by the way really cool
whatever you paid for that it was well
worth it I appreciate that yeah uh okay
so does Egypt official statement about
no they don't no they don't want them
they don't I think I tweeted out the day
after uh October 7th I'm pretty sure you
can find it maybe it was two days after
like this all end if if if they want to
solve all of this right now well I gave
you one military solution which is we
should threaten Qatar because Qatar will
just cut off the money and then that'll
be that but the other solution is if you
if anyone really cares about the
Palestinians and my my estimation now is
they don't this has nothing to do with
the Palestinians this has to do with
taking out Israel it has nothing to do
with the Palestinians if you cared about
those 2 million gazin you could get them
all to si in 3 days the Jews would never
have anything to do with them you could
get all of the qari money to build them
a thorough a thorough a flourishing and
uh thriving economy in Sinai you could
do it you could use all of the
technology that Israel did by turning a
desert into green you could do all of
that in Sinai because Sinai is just
basically a desert um but Egypt doesn't
want it because they know they're going
to import a huge amount of terrorists a
huge amount of people who would love to
throw the overthrow the Egyptian regime
and everything else and that's why
nobody does um that's why the jordanians
look up Black September from I think
1972 they killed about 30,000
Palestinians in a day because Palestine
Palestinians were upset with the
Jordanian government and about 30,000 in
I think it was a week actually so it's
like nobody really cares about them this
is this is all just like a crudel to
take out this one tiny state that again
is the size of New Jersey okay so uh let
me see if I understand your
position if you recognize your position
uh let me know that I understand your
position perfectly otherwise please
correct um the there was a per first of
all uh the Palestinian people have never
had a
state uh they didn't start calling them
Palestinians until something like
1967 uh by calling them Palestinians
they are trying to trigger in public
opinion the sense that they used to have
a state and they're now being denied
that state um the Egyptians who also
share a border with the Palestinians do
not want them uh because they believe
that they would be importing terrorists
uh people that would cause problems so
they have erected an even more
aggressive wall than the
Israelis um the Israelis won Gaza in a
war they stayed there for quite some
time with about 6,000 8,000 8,000
uh people they then uh at in 2005
realized this is not worth a headache so
they retracted back out of Gaza uh I've
heard that they even dug up the um
Graves of Israelis and so removed they
left green houses they left
infrastructure there were wealthy Jews
in America that donated millions of
dollars to Gaza to help reconstruction
and they basically burned the green
houses and destroyed all the
infrastructure okay uh so Israel backs
out um Palestinians destroy the
infrastructure that they leave behind uh
and the reason that this part I might be
putting words in your mouth so this is
really where you're going to want to
correct me uh the reason that um Qatar
isn't going to build them a new
settlement though I can understand why
Palestinians would be opposed to that
because they don't want to move uh as
crazy as that may seem uh and the reason
Egypt isn't going to do it uh is for the
same reason which is they want to use
the Palestinians as a ploy to get rid of
Israel yes it's it really is as simple
as that it's not much more complex than
that most of the Arab governments are
not particularly good to their people so
every now and again if something starts
up with Israel it's like ah forget about
all of your problems look what's going
on look what those Jews are doing over
there to those Arabs over there and so
they they've become I mean it's in some
ways it's the it's the story of the Jews
they just become the scapegoat in a game
that is deeply dangerous and very
uh difficult to live in I don't know
that any other Nation imagine you know
they've done the per capita version of
this but you know they lost about 2,000
people on October 7th and still have you
know however many hostage so if you were
to extrapolate that they're a nation of
about 8 million people were a nation of
320 million people I don't remember how
many that turns into an Americans but
imagine if let's say 100,000 Americans
were killed in one day and another
20,000 Americans were held hostage
somewhere and we had Rockets being fired
in from another part of the country and
still from that part for months now that
has stopped because of the military
operation imagine what what we would be
like as a nation right now not only
security wise but the psychology of the
nation and everything else Israel has
largely managed again I was there like
they're still out and about in Tel Aviv
they're still functioning as a nation
that is rather extraordinary actually
that they are able to deal with
existential threats constantly like the
most existential threats you can think
of and still function in any kind of way
is um I don't know I can I can't I
literally cannot imagine what we would
be like if we were under that kind of
pressure uh yeah I mean that that BS a
bigger question of what our response
would be and uh I have a feeling giving
what given what we did in
Iraq uh where it was just completely
unjustifiable as far as I can tell uh
we' going pretty hot and heavy um but I
I would say this that that any country
that is attacked by a terrorist group
and that has their people kidnapped and
slaughtered and everything has every
right to do whatever they want I believe
that I believe that both ways do you
want a second to reword that that is
okay so yes in the yes I could re I
could shave that off by like 20% not not
whatever they want but you have a right
to defend your citizens period oh okay
so let me slightly switch it no other
country on Earth would have could have
gone through what Israel gone through
and then would be told you also have to
feed the people now who have your
captives you have to make sure they have
running water and electricity and
internet and everything else you have to
take care of them you're also not
allowed to bomb certain buildings
without warning them no one in the
history of warfare has done any of these
things it would only be the Jews that
would be said okay you can willfully all
a whole bunch of you can be killed and
you have to care more about the people
who are doing The Killing than getting
your own citizens back that would be a
cleaner way of saying it yeah so this is
one of those it would never happen it
would never happen to Canada and it
would never happen to Uganda and it
would never happen to Japan or anything
else going back to the uh Florida
Sheriff or whatever saying thank you for
killing the guy this is where words
matter in the court of public opinion
man you got to be careful uh so people
that would be critical of the the the um
so I did a breakdown of your beliefs she
said yes that I understand your beliefs
so the people that would be critical of
those beliefs what are they critical of
what is the thing if you were going to
take best fa give me the good faith
people not somebody you think is being
an [ __ ] but like the goodfaith people
who legitimately understand the
situation but just see it very
differently what is their beef
if you legitimately understand the
history of the land and you legitimately
understand you know the thousands of
years of human history and the evolution
of religion and everything else and how
societies were built and how Western
Civilization appeared here and it wasn't
by Magic it was through a lot of these
the ideas that were born in that part of
the world and everything else I don't
know that I genuinely don't know that
there's a lot of good faith arguments
against anything that I said the
Palestinians were off when when the RO
when the Ottoman Empire obviously became
the British Empire in that part of land
there was the British Mandate of
palestin when the British were done in
1947 they said to the Arabs again there
were no Palestinians they said to the
Arabs and the Jews let's split this
thing up the Jews were getting a tiny
portion and they said yes the Arabs said
no and launched a war lost a war then
lost territory seven Arab Nations tried
to destroy them this has repeated
throughout history many times and then
in the 2000s several times they were
offered to State they have said no every
time they don't want a state Arafat fam
it's in Bill Clinton's book basically
said to Bill Clinton when they were
offered 97% of what they wanted with
land swaps for the remaining 3% and they
were going to divvy up Jerusalem which
is completely psychotic you can go to
Jerusalem right now and get on a bus
with a woman in a burka and an ultra
Orthodox Jewish man and they are living
there in peace there is nothing remotely
close to that in any other part of the
Middle East um they don't they don't
want a state I can't steal man their
ideas actually because I don't think
that they're um I think that they simply
don't want Israel to exist I think it's
it's not much more complex than that
it's interesting I think I think it's an
ancient hatred it's like it's like the
first hatred that ever existed and then
I think it's I think it's also um it's
put on steroids by uh by all of the bad
ideas of leftism of now of that
minorities are supposed to be oppressed
how is it possible that the Jews who
have been oppressed and who have been
Holocaust and programmed and went
through the Inquisition and all of these
things how is it that they still have
survived and thrived and everything else
it doesn't fit the intersectional
calculator and that that actually breaks
a lot of people's brains and that's why
you have these these queers for
Palestine when it's like well Palestine
would be very different for queers and
but they think it makes sense so I don't
know that there's a way to steal man
something that I think is fundamental
first off I don't think you can steal
man it because I don't I think there's
almost nobody on the other side of this
argument that would even uh concede that
what we just said there it was even true
in the first place that so that I would
say is a huge problem I would say
largely Israel just has to stop argu
making these arguments period they're
trying to live in a very part difficult
part of the World by by the Western
rules and that's extremely difficult
okay so play that out be more aggressive
more violent [ __ ] people that say you
should be chill just go in be as precise
as you can you're not saying be
willy-nilly but go in Kill who you need
kill accept a certain amount of
collateral damage it is what it is yeah
I I don't think that's I think every
Other Nation understands that actually
and every other Nation would do exactly
that and every other Nation would do
much worse they've got they've done
things got be careful with statements
like that you give people a reason to
ignore the [ __ ] out of you you do not
make blade I as somebody who wants to
see the best ideas win yeah you shoot
yourself in the foot when you say every
country would do worse like that's
the people up I don't think that there's
any reason to believe that any other
country on Earth would be asked to do
the things that they are asked to do nor
could do the things that they asked nor
would do the things they would ask to do
Fair all right fair so I can I can clean
that up for you so um not for me like I
so I am a outcome obsessed yes for those
of us that are outcome obsessed so uh
okay um one more thing that as somebody
who um you're very smart person and I
love smart voices out in the world uh oh
yes so the what what I will say is it
learn the steel man because there is a
great uh quote which you may know better
than I but it goes something like uh he
who does not know his opponent's views
knows a little of his own like if you're
really going to go for bat go for bat
for the Israeli
response understanding okay here's what
the people that think that this is
really dumb
this is what they think and let me tell
you why we can never do that because man
I'm I'm on the fringes of this and I
still feel like I've heard enough where
I could give you a Steelman of at least
a basic non like this goes back a
thousand years I I can't do that I don't
know the history well enough but I can
give you the basic Steelman against your
argument is what happened on October the
7th should be condemned without
hesitation it was absolutely abor
however you cannot kill as many people
as you're killing no matter what they
did to Israel the level of death and
destruction even if you knock knock I'm
going to kill you and then kill them an
hour later they still die and even if
it's they're being used as beas by that
yeah but I'm just I'm giving you the
steal man right so you want to be able
to make their best argument to be their
best litigator and then dismantle the
argument
so they
hey even if Hamas is using our people as
Shields they are not our people because
they wouldn't say that using the
Palestinian people as human Shields the
average person in Palestine is just
trying to live and to blow the [ __ ] out
of them is going to be deeply
problematic and I can understand how so
what would be what would be a better way
to fight a war got to let me finish the
Steel Man CU it's like I
can you I believe this is where I hold
myself accountable I want to be able to
litigate the other side so well that
that person will say to me yes you
understand my position perfectly yeah
one when I do that I'm like okay did
steel Manning that make me go huh I need
to rethink this part of my own view is
there something here that I should give
on or whatever and I because I'm outcome
focused I'm like I'm doing this because
I have an outcome that I'm trying to get
to like so I'll sort of roughly period
That's the rough deal man terrible job
and anybody that can do a better one I I
hear you this is not my area of
expertise but
um I look at everything again just doing
this uh call it thinking up from first
principle so I race from physics up to
human psychology and then I start
speaking out loud sure so uh human
psychology is such that if the
Palestinian people do not want their
children's lives to be better than their
own we are going to have a problem and
so we have to now at least zoom in on
that
is it that they don't believe their
children will have a future because
Israel has created these horrific
conditions which people that seem like
very cogent thinkers are saying I think
it's John mimer who's just like what
Israel is doing is absolutely out of
order this is insane they have created
an open air prison it is a parthe I
don't understand that argument well
enough that's why I'm not even sure like
if Israel were there is a partite in
Gaza and that no Jews are allowed to
live there okay this this where
unfortunately can't be helpful I don't
know about it uh but anyway people that
I consider very cogent are like they
give me reason to say oh we need both
sides to be Steelman so we can actually
figure out what's really going on but
anyway what I know to just be at the
highest level possible true is if the
Palestinians don't want their children's
lives to be better than their own you
get into weird territory now the
question becomes is do they not believe
their children's lives will be better
for religious reasons that oh we know
that they will go to heaven immediately
and they bypass Judgment Day again this
is not my ear of expertise I don't know
the Quran but something along those
lines at a headline reading level is
that the problem uh and so they're
because they know their kids will go
straight to heaven and if they die here
things get better for them and that can
be leveraged to get rid of Israel uh is
that the issue or is the issue that it's
just such horrible conditions now when I
look around again not an expert but when
I look around the rest of the um Middle
East which I've been to not a lot but
I've been to and it's like hey you like
you would expect anywhere you meet
lovely people who want their kids lives
to be better and they're focused on how
do we improve education and um is it to
a western eye weird to see women in a
burka walking next to women in jeans yes
it's unexpected and I don't know how to
read that from a western perspective but
I can see that people with the same
religion are having outcomes where
they're thinking about their kids and
they want their kids' lives to be better
and they're planning Generations down
the the line so I'm like well we have a
solution where it is very very very
possible that the religion is tied up in
exacerbating and creating a problem but
there are ways and I mean even just
going back to Trump and saying Abraham
Accords cool like let's get back to that
let's figure that out but
I I am not the person to put anything on
the table other than knowing what I know
about human nature
we have to find a way for Palestinians
to care about the future of their kids
again I'm not close enough to tell you
why they are caught up in the position
that they're I I don't know why they're
in the position that they're in because
that was I don't know that they're
caught up they could be this could be of
their own
making but if someone of your degree of
sophistication and knowledge can go
here's this bundle as I see it in a way
where they go yes you understand my
position perfectly then it feels like it
can be addressed sure so I complet I
actually totally appreciate that and
it's not uh lost on me what you're
saying it's interesting because when
you're on this side of the interview
what I'm always trying to do is I
usually and it's why I've said the
phrase bumper sticker a couple times I'm
usually trying to do like here's like
kind of like the big thing and then
let's move into like a million different
things so I can absolutely make the the
Steelman argument that you made there so
we don't need to repeat that I would say
that the the the problem in this case
the problem with that is that there is
there is literally I would say and I
don't think this is an exaggeration
there is nothing the Israelis can do
that will satisfy the mob that now
exists it doesn't matter if they knocked
on a door and every time they knocked on
a door an Israeli soldier was shot as
opposed to just sending a drone in or
doing anything else there is no amount
of Israelis that would be too many dead
that the that the other side would be
like all right this was a bit much um I
saw I saw the 47 minute video the
private 47 minute video like when you
see a video of someone being beheaded
and then someone picking up their head
and laughing and walking away or calling
their mother Mom I just killed seven
Jews and the mother screaming and
undulating and all of that stuff and
they didn't say I killed Israelis they
said I killed Jews they would have just
as gladly killed Bernie Sanders as they
would kill you know Benjamin Netanyahu
um so I think that that and that
partly uh because it is tied into
religion in a way is is the really
difficult thing for people to understand
at some point you have to defend your
people and your way of life you can do
everything you can to do that as morally
and responsibly as possible and
everything else and I believe they've
done that in ways that I do believe I
don't think it's an exaggeration no
other army in the world would be asked
to do or could do I think that that's
empirically true um if if a whole bunch
of terrorists burst into France and did
this and France could do whatever they
wanted to Belgium like and people would
just be like that's it Belgium lost
control their
border um so I don't so the weird part
of Steel Manning their argument in this
case is there's no there's no end to it
there's no end to okay so they could do
this different okay yes you're right
this little operation in a PL in a town
in a place that I've never that no one's
ever heard of before and no one that all
of these people out on the streets are
screaming about no one had heard of Rafa
three months ago uh all of these things
it's why the The Narrative it's so
incredible the way the narrative flips
in front of our eyes that the most
unimaginable terrorist attack happens
there's still babies there's at least
one baby probably not alive at this
point we don't know they might have
raped women that could be having babies
at this point we're past nine months of
this thing now like there's unimaginable
Horrors happening and and they're the
ones that are told now your existence is
up to for debate so let's debate whether
your existence should exist you know
whether your country should exist at all
how you fight a war when you fight a war
um we're also going to send mobs to
synagogues in Los Angeles
and in Dublin and in like so they're
under attack on every possible way and
so I think there's a weird waste of time
in some to some extent with steel
Manning because it's like okay offer
them this offer them this offer them
it's like offering a piece deal we
offered you 97% you don't want it oh we
offered you 99% oh the the 3% that was
the problem we offered a land swap on
that that was no good either and at some
point you you just go it's enough and I
think that's what they tried to do with
God in the first place again you can
look at videos the idea that they were
somehow in this open air prison first
off if you think it was an open air
prison why didn't Egypt open the door
and no one ever asked Egypt to open the
door I I literally tweeted that out on
October 8th Egypt could have just opened
the door that would have been it you
could have brought all the people over
figured it out they didn't do that and
no one asked them to do it right but you
can go there it's funny because a lot of
these videos got deleted if you looked
at videos that Pro Palestinian accounts
were tweeting out for the weeks after
October 7th it was all like look at our
beautiful guy they're destroying and you
see luxury hotels you see restaurants on
the water you see I mean they have the
same Beach as Tel Aviv which is one of
the most beautiful beaches in the world
they had all of the opportunity for all
of that and they were doing it largely
they had five star hotels there um it
wasn't an open air prison like aitz was
an open air prison it's a little bit
different uh gazin are not starved it is
not the most overpopulated P place on
Earth all of these things these are just
lies so at some point you can just stop
playing along with that so I'm not
saying it's not worth steel Maring of
course it always is and of course it is
in the rare moments that in this case
you can find someone on the other side
that honestly wants to discuss what
really is going on there
unfortunately either because of
algorithms or Tik Tock or something else
or or I think a lot of the the
unfortunate ways that the left took over
the institutions in the United States so
so that there are so many young people
in this country who are so confused and
again it's why you have trans drag
queens who would be the first people to
be beheaded in Gaza you know telling
children that they should be queers for
Palestine I think that at some point
you're just like okay enough of that
we're just going to do what we have to
do it's interesting so I have a
different take on this and this is
exactly how I felt during the Terrence
Howard uh Joe Rogan thing um which is
talking to scientists off
camera they're frustrated why do I have
to deal with this this is so absurd and
meaning that he went on there and said
like a bunch of stuff about patents and
it sounds like it really was deunk and
um I I spoke to Eric Weinstein and I
said Eric look you this has reached a
level of cultural awareness where even
if you think every word out of his mouth
is ludicrous you still if if you want to
help the public at large get a better
idea set to get behind then you're going
to have to go refute these one by one
now Eric is I just I could not be more
impressed with him he went on with such
uh kindness was he a little frustrated
talking to Immortal yes so people point
out that he SED a couple times but you
know we'll forgive him but he he went
through Point by point and said look
here are the things that are good here
are the things that I think are
problematic and there was way more
problem than there was um good stuff but
he went through it and that allowed for
a national conversation to happen around
the base assumptions like uh dear
Terence Howard you have these what four
base assumptions and let me show you how
three of them are bad and one of them is
good the three that are bad just
absolutely destroy 98% of everything
you're saying and let's focus on the 2%
but let's not be delusional about where
we go wrong and this is I think the only
way forward on Israel Palestine it is
entirely possible that this just is
unsolvable that it is there's so much
human hate be with me one second I'll
wrap this up but there's so much human
hate it just we may not be able to get
to the other side fair enough but at
least if we start with okay person that
I'm having this debate with do you this
is what I got from um Norms Norm
felstein on uh Lex with Destiny and I
forget the other two people but um Norm
said at the beginning Israel shouldn't
exist and so I was like then that's the
only thing to talk about because every
word out of your mouth on the other side
he's just going to be like but that
yields an outcome where Israel still
exists so this doesn't make sense it's
nonsensical and so once you lay out
somebody's Bas assumptions oh your
entire worldview is predicated on Israel
shouldn't exist great then that's the
only thing that we have to talk about
talking about borders and two states
none of that matters because we know the
only outcome that they will accept is
that by forcing people to say you
understand my position perfectly what
you're doing is getting them to confess
often times the thing that they don't
want to say like I want to ask Egypt why
the wall why won't you let them in is
your base assumption that they're
terrorists is your base assumption that
they don't want in and you're protecting
them from Egyptian like tell me why and
once you get them to say you should try
to find some people to have that
conversation right you're not but at
least now we pull these things into
light and we can say Egypt won't comment
uh so people will draw their own
conclusions this is these are the things
that they say what they're fighting for
what they have a beef against I can
State their position in a way that they
will say back to me yes that's my
position and cool now we argue those
things and if somebody is acting out of
accordance with those things then we
know ah this is not
sincere uh let me try to I don't know
that that I've talked about this so
personally before but I grew up around
Holocaust survivors on both sides of my
family my uncle's father my Uncle Jerry
who married my dad's sister had the
tattoo Survivor I heard all of the
stories of people being killed and where
my my his wife had to hide under in a
farm and like all these unbelievable
things and I grew up and and it wasn't
just my family like parents friends
families all had this survivors some had
didn't have any grandparents left all
these other things I think at some point
if that's what the story is if that's
what the story is you've heard that
before from your ancestors how quickly
things turn the all of this stuff then
at some point the time for steel Manning
in a in a time of absolute crisis when
2,000 of your people are dead and
there's all these hostages isn't that
effective again I'm not saying it's not
worth it I it's interesting you brought
up Eric though because I was thinking
before when you mentioned steel Manning
he was the one that sort of popularized
that I think Brett was it Brett first
maybe I think so it might have it
literally might have even been on my
show so um but the point is the idea
that you could you know concretely lay
out your opponent's ideology or their
arguments Eric was obviously a big
proponent of that always and so when
when the IDW was blowing up and at the
peak of that whole thing with Jordan
Peterson and everybody um and Eric was
constantly trying to steal man the
arguments of the left I always enjoyed
it I enjoyed the intellectual exercise I
you're extremely good at it so it's when
somebody's like really cogent and
thoughtful with it it's extremely nice
to hear because it's like it's like it's
like a straight line that has some nice
little little roundabout ways in it
right um but I always used to say to
Eric if we'd go out to dinner after or
something else I'd be like do you think
this is going to stop any of this and I
think I was and and he would always kind
I don't want to speak for him but he
would kind of be like I I don't know but
I think it's worth doing something like
that which I think you would probably
agree with I have a slightly different
answer to that if you're going somewhere
let's I I definitely want to hear your
answer on that but my point was do you
think that making arguments with all
trying to really concretely lay out what
these people's arguments are do you
think it it will stop what is coming and
I would say it has not stopped any of it
that things are significantly worse in
this country that the ideologies are
significantly worse just look at the Ivy
Leagues and look at the rallies and now
there are literally Hezbollah flags
being raised in New York City and
tearing down of our monuments and all of
those things and none of it stopped any
of it so I'm not saying it's not worth
it but I don't know that it is worth it
I just would put it that way but but
actually I want to hear what you said so
this is where base assumptions come in
so you can understand me if you
understand the following belief that I
think a person's frame of reference
controls everything about their life it
will control what makes your heart race
um so if you think
um if you think getting promoted is dumb
then you won't even try if you think
getting promoted is amazing uh when you
get a promotion it will literally change
you physiologically for a moment like
you'll be excited your heart will be
faster uh but that came down to frame of
reference your people's frames of
reference entirely control their
thoughts on America the frame of
reference entirely controls their
thoughts on Israel
Palestine all all of these things are
far less about what's happening and far
more about what people think about
what's Happ happen what people think
about what's happening is controlled
entirely by a set of ideas and ideas and
values just to differentiate between the
two
and my belief is that if the cultural
instruments that we all play so I play
two cultural instruments one is this
podcast and the others I make video
games and in both of those I try to
address ideas that I hope will change
somebody's frame of reference which will
change not what they look at but what
they see and if my whole thing is about
personal empowerment so if I can help
your life Get Better by having you look
at a terrible thing and seeing the path
to something useful in that uh then I'll
feel like cool I did not waste my time
on planet Earth so the reason that I
focus on steel Manning an argument is
not for even necessarily the people like
take Israel
Palestine either side dear boys and
girls you're in the game of influencing
people's frame of reference and if you
can accurately so if I'm uh Palestine I
want to influence the world to believe
that Israel shouldn't exist and so I
need to be able to steal man the
argument of people who believe Israel
should exist so that I can make sure
that I can defeat that if I am Israel I
want to make sure that people understand
that I have a right to defend myself and
I'm perfectly happy to be neighbors with
these people uh but I'm going to respond
disproportionately to ensure people
don't [ __ ] with me and I want to make
sure people understand where I'm coming
from and all the things that happen this
this is a war of ideas once people
understand this is a war of ideas I
don't see a better
rhetorical um Pursuit other than in the
world where you and I are going to get
clipped to [ __ ] and people are going to
do what they're going to do yeah but if
on balance people see me over and over
and over walk through a Steelman to
where the other person's like yes you
understand my position it's like cool
I'm not saying what I'm saying now
because I don't understand so I just Lop
off a huge amount of people that would
say well he doesn't get it nope that's
not true now I have the thing of I'm
going to tell you what my end goal is
and then I'm going to be judged by
efficacy as I move towards that end goal
part of why I want people to run this
experiment is when you steal man their
argument and they say yes you're getting
getting them to tell you what their
North Star is so cool I know what your
North Star is one that is often a
confession that will change a lot of
people's minds just because once for me
as a swayable person if somebody says
Israel shouldn't exist now I'm like whoa
I'm out I'm not on your team so that's
where it becomes really important to run
that exercise I get it for people like
you that have probably done this a
gazillion times it just gets [ __ ]
exhausting yeah but I think we're all in
a war for ideas well we are and we all
by the way we're all we're all different
actors in that war we're different
players in this game right if it's a
video game we're all different players
and some of us have been playing the
game for a longer time or some of us
play it a little bit differently or if
it was literally a war you have infantry
and you have air force and you have
tanks and you have all these different
things so all of us are act at it in
different ways I think that there are
you know I used to hear this art Jordan
and I got into this a couple times um
where sometimes people would say to him
uh you know you when you do your all of
your talks um or you give your lectures
or the biblical series everything it's
all so beautifully thoughtful and but
you know it's just perfect Orchestra of
Brilliance and everything else but then
on Twitter you're too abrasive or
something and I was once at a dinner
with him I don't think I'm speaking out
of school when I say this I won't I
won't say anyone else that was there but
there was this big debate at the table
about 15 people having this debate about
how Jordan tweets and most people at the
table were saying he's too aggressive on
Twitter he's got to tone back Twitter
because he's going to lose a little bit
of the baby with with the bath water on
this thing and I took the
counterargument and because my argument
was you're telling the person who has
changed more minds and done more good
for the world that than anyone certainly
that I've ever met but it's not even
that I have the privilege of knowing him
it's even if I was outside of this the
amount of good that I have seen this man
do empirically do the turn lives that he
has turned out of got off drugs and
repaired family things and oh got jobs
and all of the stuff that if every now
and again in he throws out something
that's a bit much says this you know
this about trans whatever or this that
it's like it's like saying to Donald
Trump the first time around just do it
the way we want you to do it yes you're
largely right about the stuff but could
you just control some of the other stuff
and I find it hard to say to the guy who
did the thing that everyone said
couldn't to couldn't be done do it a
little bit more our way that I think is
what the maybe like the tension is
between the two positions to me there
has to be a little of that the teeth
have to be shown a little bit every now
and again you have to show you kind of
are over it you can always put your best
foot forward and make and do all of that
I certainly try to do it all the time on
my show and as I said sometimes when I'm
on this side of it a little of that can
be lost for sure um because we're trying
to do a lot of stuff and I also don't
want to I want to as the guest want to
be respectful of wherever you want to go
and everything else but I think that
that's basically the same argument that
they were making to Trump it's the same
same argument that I've heard them make
to Jordan in a weird way it's the same
argument they're making to to Israel
just like do it yeah you've done
something extraordinary you took a tiny
sliver of desert in the most
inhospitable place on Earth you made it
flourish you took a people who had been
epically oppressed in ways that are
unimaginable like some of whom were
Holocaust Survivors who then had to move
from Europe and ended up in the desert
where nobody lived and turned it into an
oasis and also every now and again your
children to be killed and just behave
the way we want you to or just don't
speak exactly like that and then we'll
kind of like you more and I I just don't
think that that works and I say all of
that not withstanding the absolutely
cogent beautiful argument that you made
right there this has been wonderful man
where can people follow you oh my God uh
well this week I'm just wandering around
Los Angeles trying not to get killed by
homeless people but uh besides that uh I
in the midst of all of this we didn't
get to talk about it but I did start a
tech company because I wanted to fight
big Tech so started locals which was
basically a way that you could Subs uh
subscribe and have your fans support you
outside of big Tech so I started
locals.com we eventually merged with
Rumble we're basically the only sort of
alternate rails you know outside of
YouTube and really Amazon AWS that's
where Rumble really is going in the next
version of all this the rumble cloud and
everything else so people can go to Rum
uh they can go to rumble but they can go
to Ruben report. locals.com and that's
where I built my community those are the
people who support me and allow me to
say all of these crazy things I love it
yeah all right everybody if you haven't
already be sure to subscribe and until
next time my friends be legendary take
care peace if you like this conversation
check out this episode to learn more if
you had a prosecutor who ran for office
on the promise of going after Joe Biden
I think the left would be howling bloody
murder here and they would have a good
point in that case because even though I
disagree with a lot of what Biden stands
for I don't think that that's the way
Justice should be carried out yet that's