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Language: en
do you think given the stuff you're
doing in Ai and Longevity that the
people that are alive now have a shot at
Living forever I think they definitively
have a shot if you're in reasonable
health for the next five six years of
extending that Health span another
Health span right night lifespan Health
span another 20 or 30 years and that say
that in another way in the next five to
six years next so by
2030 right I think we're going to enable
everyone who's in reasonable Health
today to intercept breakthroughs that
will add an additional 20 or 30 healthy
years of
life and what's interesting is that
during those additional 20 or 30 healthy
years we've got Quantum Computing we've
got digital super intelligence we've got
new capabilities of modeling cells and
modeling entire organisms to understand
why we age how to slow it stop it
reverse it and that get us to living
forever perhaps maybe there's some
fundamentals that we don't understand
but uh I think there's pretty much
nothing that we are not going to be able
to
overcome uh as as humans in partnership
with digital super
intelligence okay so if I'm
understanding that right so average life
expectancy here in the US is something
like 78 yeah 78 79 and average Health
expectancy right so your your heart's
ticking till 79 but you're healthy on
average till 63 which I am right now I'm
63 years old I find myself in the best
health I've ever been and I feel blessed
about that but I work on it right every
day I was in the gym this morning I'm
what I'm eating my mindset my sleep all
of these things and so there's a 17-year
gap between when your health runs out
and how long you live the first goal is
can we close that Gap
can we keep you healthy you know fully
till 80 and then can we start to extend
that health and that longevity so you're
more confident that we can extend health
then we can extend the total amount of
time that people live I I think I think
that we will be able to definitively
expect to get over 100 years old and get
there with there right we know that
humans can live to what 122 123 122 is
the record today and we know that um we
also know that there are there are life
forms on this planet the boohead whale
can lift at 200 years the Greenland
shark could lift to 500 years old have
babies at 200 years old when I was in
medical school and I remember reading
that or watching it on a documentary I
said why can they live that long and why
can't we and my first reaction was it's
either a software problem or a hardware
problem and we're going to be able to
solve that and I think this is the
decade that those Solutions are coming
into
existence Okay so so talk to me about
the mechanism what is it that makes you
more confident in health versus just the
is it pure just I don't know enough
about what makes something stop running
that makes you unsure that you can go
beyond
120 yeah yeah let me let me give a few
uh previous basic concepts so number one
um humans were never designed to live
past age 30 if you think about this
100,000 200,000 years ago on the sabanas
of Africa before there was birth control
you were in puberty by age 12 you were
pregnant by 13 you're were a grandparent
by 27 MH and before we had McDonald's
and whole food before we were living in
a food abundance and food was scarce if
you wanted to perpetuate the species the
last thing you wanted to do was steal
food from your grandchildren's mouths so
you would die and so we are in Peak
Health at around age 27 28 29 and then
it's a measurable decline from there
what do I mean by that uh our stem cell
populations throughout our body will
reduce by 100 to a thousand fold in the
compartments uh our hormonal levels
begin to rapidly decrease our growth
hormone our thymus which trains our te-
cells goes away our muscle begins to
atrophy sarcopenia and all these things
are slow
degradation and so the that's the first
thing to
recognize the second thing that we
should talk about is when you're born
you get 3.2 billion letters from your
mom and 3.2 billion letters from your
dad and that's your software that's
running in 40 trillion
cells and you've got that same software
when you're born when you're 20 when
you're 50 when you're 80 when you're 100
so why do you look different it's an
interesting question right I mean why
don't you have a six-pack at age 100
that you have when you're 18 and it
turns out it's not the genes it's not
the software you're running it's what
genes are on and what genes are off and
uh that's termed your epig genome from
the Greek word for above EPI and one of
the hottest areas of research right now
funded by a number of billionaires you
know uh Brian Armstrong from coinbase is
funded a company of Jeff Bezos Yuri
Milner um and
these companies are looking at can we
reverse your epigenome can can we turn
on the genes that were on when you were
younger and turn off the genes that were
off when you were younger and bring you
back to an earlier state of Youth and so
far the science says yes now the
question is can we do it in humans well
the trials are going on in non-human
primates and other animals and the
people that I respect in the field
believe that we can we can do that this
so are there are there fundamental
limitations of thermodynamics that we
don't
know but the other thing that's going on
is you know each of us when you have a a
mom and a dad who are let's say aged 35
and have a baby uh the the zygote the
you know the fertilized egg starts at
out at age zero even though the parents
are 35 years old and what we've shown by
serial nuclear transfer where we take
the nucleus out of an adult animal and
put it into an egg and let it grow up
into an adult animal and take the
nucleus out of that adult animal put it
into an egg and let it grow up that can
be done over and over and over again
without penalty so there is in our in
our makeup that ability can we unleash
it and I I think that this is the decade
that we figure that out do you have a
sense of why technology is going to help
us figure that out like is it uh we need
AI for the pattern recognition uh is it
we need Quantum Computing to run enough
simulations fast enough that we can let
AI then get the patterns that it needs
to detect like in the crazy amount of
data contained in our DNA it needs to
start sussing out like what are the
patterns that lead to Good Health B
basically so we're collection of 40
trillion human cells we don't think of
ourselves as a collective but we are
that collaborate and work together we
have an additional you know 40 to 100
trillion other organisms bacteria fungi
nearly enough about that yeah uh and
each of these human cells is running
about one to two billion chemical
reactions per second that's nuts it's
nuts to think about that right now you
know you could you or orchestrate that
is it's happening
automatically and and so there's no
human doctor over the last you know 10
20 30 100 years that can understand
that and why do some people live till
105 with their mental faculties and
they're still at work and others are
sick at age
60 you know a lot of it has to do with
their diet and you know the whole make
America healthy again is a very real
thing our pharmaceutical and Food
Industries are destroying a lot of you a
lot of issues there we can get into that
if you want but a lot of it has to do as
well with their their genetics their
physical
makeup uh and AI can help us understand
that understanding why you age how to
slow it stop it perhaps reverse it uh
one of the things that's going on uh the
Nobel Prize just got given away recently
to uh Demis aabis and John jumper at
Deep mind for Alpha fold and and so here
we see one of the first real Nobel
prizes for an AI capability what is
alphafold when I was in medical school
God some decades ago the superc
Computing problem that was always you
know like 10 20 50 years out was could
you go from an amino acid sequence you
know a sequence of amino acids a
thousand or 5,000 of them to predicting
the folding of a protein and how
proteins fold is everything it's the
structure that is your antibody or is
your muscle or is your you know the
structure in your body and it was always
very difficult but they wrote a AI
program called Alpha fold that is
accurately able to to achieve that
within a single atomic radius which was
incredibly crazy then they created Alpha
fold 3 which is able to uh to simulate
the interaction of all molecules of life
like this DNA this sugar this protein
how would they interact if they're
putting a chemical solution together
where they're going next is can we
simulate an entire human cell right can
we simulate in silico on
computer um that billion comical
reactions per second and then next step
can I take your DNA and Sim simulate
your cell and simulate your organ and
simulate you and know without any
question that if I give you this drug
it's going to work in this way for you
better than doing a human
trial yeah this is the kind of thing
that makes me go maybe we really do live
in a simulation the reason I think that
we were talking about this before we
started rolling as a game developer the
thing that you realize is oh my job is
to create a set of rules and so all I'm
trying to do is create a very predefined
set of rules that yield in the case of
game development something that's fun
right but you you really are down in the
level of physics when this happens the
character should react this way or the
gun should fire this way you know
whatever whatever and you start asking
yourself well wait a second if I build
rules that aren't necessarily player
instigated or related but exist yes uh
now all of a sudden you can create this
setup where things can interact and way
it would surprise even the game
developer and when you start thinking
through that problem of like take
Minecraft and I want Minecraft where a
player will go in and they'll rearrange
things and leave and when they come back
the crop should keep growing or whatever
while they were gone right well you've
seen that simulation right where they
put a thousand AI agents into Minecraft
yes and they developed an entire economy
and uh you know currencies and I was
insane now what I want people to realize
is that's just because there's a set of
rules and so now every interaction Point
has a predefined set of ways that that
can go and so when I look at okay why is
technology the thing that's going to
allow us to move forward it's because
all of the rules of the way that a human
cell works are knowable they're just not
known yes but they are predefined and
whether this is a simulation created by
God or a 13-year-old programmer and
another dimension almost becomes
irrelevant we we are in a rules-based
world and as we tease out those rules
then we can unlock the potential of what
it means to know those rules so if you
know that aging is based on this really
complicated interaction just to simplify
it for people and you'll correct me if
I'm wrong it's the person that uh has
the degrees but uh what's really going
on this is an Epi genome phenomenon so
you have this little thing that runs
along your genes and either says this
should be wrapped tight and not red yes
or this should be unwrapped and red and
what ends up happening is your skin cell
begins to unravel in the wrong places
and it's like am I an ear a skin cell a
heart cell what am I and so you get this
D differentiation and that is aging and
so if you could go okay I know what this
Gene in your body is supposed to look
like and so now I'm going to put
something in there that helps basically
the the thing that lives inside your
cell already The epig genome readers
creatures whatever they actually move
it's crazy I don't know what to CL
classify them as but if you had
something that was like no no no that
one not supposed to look like this it's
supposed to look like this now you're
just saying as long as I know the rules
and I have a method by which I can nudge
these things to act in the right way
then to your earlier point I don't see
what it is possibly that we would run up
against yeah um now requires us to be
able to manipulate things at the that
kind of protein level uh
but Ray kwell who's been a mentor and a
business partner and friend um one of
the leading things in AI uh who believes
we're going to reach this idea of
longevity escape
velocity uh which by the way you know is
the moment in time where for every year
that you're alive science is extending
your life for more than a year right so
you you depart and it goes to Infinity
he thinks we're going to reach that by
the end of the year 2030 right five
years from now yeah insane uh and then
you know in speaking to folks like
George church and David Sinclair their
predic is the mid 2030s you know a
decade from now the point for everyone
listening here is uh we're in a magical
time uh your job is to take care of your
body uh keep yourself healthy enough to
intercept like I you know say in the
title of my book don't die from
something stupid in the interim right
you don't want to be the last person uh
not
standing uh in this regard uh and Rey's
belief is that a lot of this is going to
materialize on the back side of
nanotechnology which is a set of
Technologies originally Freeman Dyson
wrote about them um uh and then Eric
Drexler wrote about these and it's the
ability to manipulate things on an
atomic level right is nanotech real
today nanotech is uh and I've had a lot
of conversations on the subject it isn't
fully it's wet nanotech what nanotech is
today is the ability to design proteins
that do things for us still novel
proteins or it's like we need a protein
that can have an arm that sticks out and
attaches here and does this and so so
wait wait wait wait we can yes we
understand how these structures happen
to the point that we can actually create
novel protein structures 100% so that
was part of the Nobel Prize as well um
and wait wait wait sorry sorry sorry
sorry yeah uh so I didn't know this so
we're not just mapping these um entic
processes yield this protein we're
saying we understand the sort of Lego e
nature of a protein and now can create
any shape we want so there is a program
called Alpha proteo also put out by Deep
Mind in which you can design the protein
that you want translate into an amino
acid sequence and have a ribosome
manufacturer it for you who so what that
means more than just being able to
create I like that Lego eyes novel
proteins that do the stuff that you want
to do it's a future for medicine I mean
if you think about it uh how does how do
we find medicines today we historically
we've gone into the rainforest and
chopped down plants dug up dirt bring it
back process it see if there's anything
bioactive in there sprinkle it on some
yeast give it to some mice and then
eventually maybe after 12 13 14 years
and two or three billion dollars have a
drug which by the way works for only
typically 20% of the people it's
prescribed to imagine instead okay I
know that this disease path um if we
could block this active site on a cell
surface uh that would cure it let's
design A protein that blocks that active
site design it manufacture it and run
that's bananas I didn't realize that was
the place that we had already reached
that is crazy so it's accelerating
another thing that's interesting if I
could um uh I don't know if you have
you've had Jack have you had Jack hit on
the show here from sandbox AQ we were
literally just talking about him before
we going to taret him yeah so Jack's a
dear friend he's on my board at the
xprize and uh he was at Google X and
then he spun out sandbox AQ the a stands
for AI the Q stands for Quantum uh they
began with $500 million seed round is
that all that's all these seed it's
called infl it's called you know
inflation or really rich uh Rich
investors long story short um uh I just
met I had did a podcast with him on my
moonshots podcast and uh we're talking
about a number of subjects but uh he
brought his head of general manager of
AI simulation I love that term and she's
amazing uh I'll have her on stage at the
abundance Summit with me in March and
what they're doing is they're using
Ai and quantum
equations to be able to simulate at the
atomic and sort of the electron level
what's going on on chemicals on
molecules uh they basically take the
equations that govern our Quantum
Universe sher's equation
uh and and such Heisenberg UNC
uncertainty principle and they they
create what they call
lqm right large Quantum models and can
begin to model the physical
Universe an atomic and subatomic level
it's insane so to get the accuracy that
you need for some of the biochemical
stuff you have to be dealing in Quantum
level mechanics yes yeah that is
fascinating what is the state of quantum
some Computing right now is it real is
this still 30 years off well I mean um
it's real uh and getting realer uh so we
were talking about beforehand Google
just had an announcement uh of uh latest
breakthrough Willow what is the
Breakthrough is it stability what have
they done it's the stability so the
biggest issue has been uh as you growing
the number of Q bits the quantum bits uh
that the error rate has gone up and you
need error free Quantum bits to do
anything and I don't pretend to be an
expert in in Willow um but apparently
the bigger that system is growing the
more stable it gets and the more uh
logical cubits it has so uh I'm going to
be diving into that I mean that was just
announced but it's it's exciting but the
point being that we can model Quantum on
a systems today before we have quantum
computers uh and help us understand that
okay so uh I don't know if you
understand the process by which that
works but basically they're able to what
simulate what a quantum computer would
do they're able to take the laws of the
quantum Universe again right there are
four or five basic uh laws and use those
to help simulate what's going on on a
molecular B basis and atomic basis and
this is for them to make predictions and
designs of new materials of new drugs um
so is AI if I'm understanding the
process correctly it would have to be
something like this um AI is creating
essentially synthetic data that it's
training itself on based on the laws of
quantum physics yes wow yeah okay so
this is why going back to longevity this
is why I am so absolutely uh thrilled
and excited about what's coming right so
we'll get back to the show in a second
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show I'm uh you know I've been focused
on the
longevity science and business for now
12 years right I think a dozen years ago
when you and I first started I had
started human longevity with Craig
Venter and Bob herui um and then have
been building companies built a $600
million Venture Fund in investing in
this area we just launched a $101
million Health span prize a year ago and
uh for those who haven't seen it you can
go to x pri.org um thank you to you and
Lisa for having been benefactors of the
X prise and supporting us over the years
uh and we've put up we I raised $141
million challenging teams can you
deliver a therapeutic in under a year uh
to individuals age I think we're uh in
the age bracket of 60 to
85 and during that year you can
reverse functional loss in muscle immune
and cognition so can I give you the
muscular strength and ability to build
muscle you had 20 years ago can I give
you the immune strength the ability to
mount an immune reaction to influenza or
cancer that you had 20 years ago can I
give you the cognitive Clarity the scope
of memory
that you had 20 years ago and we have
505 teams Jesus yeah that have entered
in the first year which blows me away I
mean I expected to get to 500 teams by
2030 and I've seen a number of these and
they're
amazing are there any uh patterns in the
mechanism of action it's all over the
place interesting and so this is sort of
you know one of the beautiful things
about an X prize is you're not preing
the winner and you're seeing every
possible approach
and so we're going to out of the noise
or out of the universe of companies
entrepreneurs out there they're they're
small and big companies uh throughout I
think like 30 countries around the world
uh we're going to find those companies
that are making the most advanced bold
breakthroughs in this now is there
anything that you seei I fully
understand that not only do you not want
to nudge people down a certain path but
you know better than to guess but is
there any approach that you see that
either hits you as intuitively fruitful
or just outright sexy and kind of
intriguing oh I mean there's there's a
multitude so there are a number of
epigenetic companies so people looking
at the thing I was talking about earlier
so how do we reverse your epigenome how
do we reset the markers in your DNA so
that you're expressing the genes that
you had 20 years younger okay there are
a number of companies in the stem cell
world all right so your stem cells in
your body when you are born uh you have
something like a 100 or a thousand times
more stem cells than you and I have whoa
um you know per unit mass in our body
whoa I had no idea the decline is
declines very much and can you
rejuvenate your stem cell
population uh one company that I've seen
that I'm just blown away by a guy named
h secur stad and his work uh at company
called immunis has been able to uh look
at the a
specific young uh stem cell uh think of
it as a embryonic stem cell but it's
it's uh you know early you know few days
after fertilization it's putting out 440
growth
factors um these are uh these are mrnas
they're EX omes there all kinds of
factors that are youthful factors and
the FDA has allowed him to characterize
those 440 factors as a
drug and he's gone through a phase one
and phase 2A trial he had 18 patients
who uh were uh basically confined to a a
wheelchair or bed because they had
severe osteoarthritis they couldn't walk
MH giving them this uh this drug calls
imuna uh even though they were
constrained they increased their muscle
mass by 6% what yes I mean I from an
injection an injection over the course
of three months this is stimulating
growth in the body listen I work out in
the gym as you do on almost every day I
know you're skeptical I looked at the
data here's the rest of it reduced Pain
by as much as 70% from your
osteoarthritis reduced whole body
inflammation by
50% reversed their their uh their immune
age by 30 years this is called imuna
imuna so we're going to be uh providing
that uh at no additional cost we've
expand they've expanded the trial and
Fountain life is going to be offering
this to its members at no additional
cost to be part of that trial in the
phase 2 uh open trial I'm literally
going down there next month to start
start getting access to it dude you have
got to keep me updated on that so uh for
anybody listening here the reason that
I'm reacting so big is the joke in
bodybuilding circles forever has been oh
people try to say oh this guy did drugs
and so you know it's all worthless and
you can inject somebody with steroids
all day long and they will never get
bigger you have to go work your ass off
and if you don't work your ass off no
matter how many steroids I give you
you're not going to get any bigger and
so to have something where you don't
need to work out to get the gain in
muscle is insane like that's an insane
bre I am fingers crossed I mean I work
out five days a week at least you know I
added 10 pounds of muscle mass last year
and it was a lot of work right it was
150 grams of protein it was creatin it
was working out in the gym it was like
damn it I'm going to get there whatever
it takes now did you do trt um I did a
little bit but I've actually uh stopped
cuz my my test my testosterone levels
were were high enough
and look at
you anyway so uh but bottom line I know
that you know and I've got an entire
chapter in longevity guide book on the
importance of muscle right and and you
know this it's your longevity organ and
having there's a direct correlation
between your muscle mass and your
lifespan and it's critically
important okay that's bananas so uh it's
one example another company I ran into
will go from it will take one of your
skin cells right convert it to an ipsc
cell so basically an induced plop potent
stem cell these are the yamanaka factors
the Nobel Prize shinoa was graded to
shinoa yamanaka for this discovery that
you can take a differentiated cell
typically a skin cell and turn it back
into a plur poent stem cell that can
then become any other kind of cell you
can take a skin cell turn it back to a
PL poent stem cell have it then become a
a neuron or liver cell or lung
cell so what this team is doing is going
from a skin cell to a PL potent stem
cell and then actually
growing a clone of
you say more yes and so imagine they've
gotten this clone up to something like
28 weeks uhhuh and that's legal it
legal um and the idea is that I can
then uh from that I mean it's a psize
clone right but I can then extract my
own DNA my own stem cells from that
clone and I can use that for
regenerative purposes when we say clone
uh do we just mean like clumps of cells
that are clone cells embryo we're
talking about effectively an embryo
uhhuh yeah of you but wait how is this
legal why is it not legal uh there were
I mean back in the 90s this was like a
huge thing to not let people uh I don't
know if it was around cloning but not
let so back then the notion was if
someone was having an abortion yeah and
you had an embryo of a third third party
could I take the stem cells from that
embryo yes and utilize them in my body
mhm and that was led to teratomas and a
whole bunch of different cancers and a
whole bunch of
problems not done and probably not legal
this is very different than your own
cells this work's going on right now uh
outside the US but uh the idea being
that I'm simply using my own DNA
to create and I'm using
biology to create the cells out of my
own DNA that I'm going to want to use to
support this body yeah this is
incredible it's also my point is there's
a lot of Inc incredible work being done
right now across the board and putting
aside whether you think yuck or wow I'm
more in the wow camp but that that is
shocking I did not realize that that a
was possible and B that it was being
done uh I I love it okay so those are
some absolutely jaw-droppingly cool
approaches yeah so I think one of the
reasons that I wrote longevity guide
book was to give people the
power to understand what was possible
and give them the
definitive you know executable plan um
and there are a number of things that
people can do right now that cost zero
right so it really is the fundamentals
still apply and you know this and I'm
sure you and Lisa focus on this it is
it's you know what do you do in your
diet what do you do with sleep what do
you do with exercise what do you do with
mindset right those are the fundamental
elements that are going to buy you the
additional Health span and then but
people want they want the oics they do
and honestly OIC has its downsides and
we can talk through that of course well
what I want to ask is can we agree that
something just happened in the last six
months that made face lifts cosmetic
surgery whatever you want to call it way
better like am I being trolled better
have you seen the Lindsay Lohan before
and after I did not this is nuts Drew
you got to pull this up th this is
legitimately where I'm like are they
using filters and I'm just being trolled
it is it is shocking and this was not
the first one that I've seen where I'm
just like how's this possible this was
somebody that whatever a year look dude
the one okay she had had a ton of work
done on the left already and then all of
a sudden okay so left work done clearly
already work being done on the left and
then the right is the after what is
happening so this is uh I need to know
if this is real this feels like somebody
from your program escaped and was like
I'm going to commercialize this real
fast and there's Nano Bots under her
skin or something this this is insane to
me and I need to know what's going on
because I want to be first in [ __ ]
line for this this is
crazy I I think listen Plastics are are
real and they're getting better and
we're learning how to deal with all
kinds of but even you dude you're 63
you're looking really good yeah I don't
do that I have a I use a one skin face
cream that is was developed by uh for
incredible women with phds in in in
cytic medicine so it's a this particular
face cream has uh an amino acid 10 10
amino acid peptide that is able to
identify and kill senescent cells in
your skin yep and I don't e sugar and I
heal plants and I do my damn dis to get
hour heal
plants I eat whole plants there we go
that makes a lot more sense I was
imagining you like you know exactly and
I and I'm you know and one of the things
that people don't realize and I'm sure
you do but the benefits of
mindset is so powerful can I just read
something from from the from the book
which is I I just want to get this out
into the world here because people need
to understand this and so uh it's quote
from my uh from my book here it says in
a study of 69,000 , 744 women and 1429
men right more women but well-powered
study in terms of number of people it
was published in the prestigious Journal
proceedings the National Academy of
Sciences as high as you get it was found
that optimistic people live as much as
15% longer than
pessimists and it really is mind over
body in an extraordinary fashion it's a
double payoff if you're an Optimist um
there's another uh little passage I want
to read here in the in the mindset uh
chapter and I love this um and a friend
of mine Dan Sullivan says you need to
have a mindset where your future is
bigger than your past right and it's
like great line it it really truly is if
if you have a lot to look forward to if
you're excited about the future and I'm
like like this is the most amazing time
ever to be alive I want to see as much
of it as possible I want to start
sitting on the moon I want asteroids I
want to upload myself you know I got a
lot to do in the next 100 years I want
to I want to see as much of it as I can
implies that you're going to make it to
163 I like we'll see
um there's let me read this say my
favorite story illustrating the power of
Mind Over body comes from the anals of
American history as it turns out um in
an extraordinary demonstration of the
will to live two of America's found ing
fathers Thomas Jefferson and John Adams
both willed themselves to live long
enough to see the 50th anniversary of
the Declaration of Independence even
though the average age average life
expectancy was only 44 years old in the
early 1800s Jefferson who was 83 and
Adams who was 90 made it to July 4th of
1826 both dying on the exact date of the
50th anniversary of the nation that's
nuts having something to look forward to
yeah having something look forward to
understanding the power of the mind I
think that's all amazing and I love
about you that even in the face of the
technological singularity you're still
focused on the things that we can do
right here and right now however the
thing that makes you a central figure in
this moment is that you actually
understand the technology and where this
stuff is going um so one I would love an
anchor around why is 2025 going to be
the greatest year so far and then I know
that as you look beyond that you see
only hope and optimism but first give me
why will 2025 be the greatest year ever
we are on the Tipping Point of
AGI we are about to release the ability
to build AI agents that will do your
bidding do your research uh support
every aspect of your life we are clearly
from what we just heard from hartm Nan
and Google also on the verge of quantum
Computing becoming stable and effective
um all these things are happening
concurrently uh we know have more
information about
biology than ever and all of this is
feeding in so as you know I I currently
chairman of Fountain life and we have
these large diagnostic Centers and so
we've built AI into everything so when
you go through this and I still want you
and and Lisa to come through same man as
my guest you've got something coming in
La yeah we we're opening up LA and we
have right now New York our headquarters
at Orlando Naples and Dallas we're
opening up this coming year uh in centry
city at the Fairmont Hotel uh beautiful
facility there um opening up Houston uh
the ripz Carlton in Phoenix and then
probably Miami and then we have a path
of an additional 25 centers that we're
building around the world damn so it's
and we have built a large uh functional
medicine uh AI model in uh which helps
our physicians gather all let's see it's
like 300 gigabytes 200 gigabytes of data
about you right so Mass am Imaging
genomics everything is we upload you
right it's like we everything knowable
about your biology is knowable and
there's no way human can understand that
but the AI systems and the humans
together can and then on your phone I
I'll show you this after after we record
all my
data uh and an AI there that I can query
by voice and say you know based upon my
imagery and my blood tests what
supplement should I be
on it's crazy all of these things are
converging um and they're all empowering
us to do that much more we're in this
very rapid exponential walk me through
what does life after um
artificial intelligence all the way to
AGI has been integrated what does life
look like so um I had Elon on my stage
last year at the abundance
Summit and you know his prediction was
okay we're going to have AGI by the end
of 2025 and you know Ray Kell's original
prediction for artificial general
intelligence was
2029 but directionally correct and
there's no real definition of what AGI
is anyway it's a blurry fuzzy line to be
to be true we we passed the touring test
and and didn't notice it it's crazy
right well that's when people started
writing that letter we need to slow this
down yeah well but there was still no
like check box you know AGI I think
we're effectively there now or we will
be in
202 listen uh I when I'm using uh all of
the AI agents and I use a multitude of
them there there is really nothing it
can do that it can't do better than me H
and so what do you define that as um
anyway so Elon said I said okay so where
is this going he said well by
2029 the earliest 2030 at the latest
we're going to have digital super
intelligence where AI is more
intelligent than the entire human race
put together what what does that mean
that it's the smartest human multiplied
out or it's a level of intelligence that
we can't conceive
of so a year ago we saw
um uh we saw Claude Claude 3 get to an
IQ of 101 which by definition is
superhuman or above average at least
right we saw gp01 from open AI have an
IQ of 120 as measured whoa that's that's
old news that's four month old really I
didn't hear about that yeah and we're
about to see dude that's nuts it is nuts
but we'll blow through 150 and Beyond
you know we have um uh elon's just built
Colossus right he went from
Raising
um8 billion dollar snapping his fingers
and saying I'm raising for
xai and you know I was on I was one of
the first investment calls I got to
invest early on congratulations and
money comes in uh he raised again and
I'm like can I get in sorry it's over
subscribed already it's like holy [ __ ]
right it's like instantly but beyond
that once he raised the money he went
from a
clean facility in Memphis to building
the largest cluster of 100 100,000 H1
h100s in 122 days and and now he's
driving it to 200,000 and then to a
million uh to build out grock and you
know I Elon will never play for second
place uh having said that we're entering
a period
where um we are going to have a a
digital super intelligence the question
is will it be Humanity's savior our our
support structure or our foe I I believe
that it will be uh that I'd rather live
in a world with a benevolent digital
super intelligence where it's keeping us
from destroying ourselves right cuz I'm
not concerned about artificial
intelligence I'm concerned about human
stupidity for the most part and um I
think people don't
realize how insanely fast we're moving
I've got this one PowerPoint slide that
I use in my Keynotes and it says at the
top our ancestors would view us as Gods
it's interesting right we are Godlike
today we're omnicient we're omnipotent
we're present we can create
life it's pretty incredible it's pretty
incredible okay talk to me like a Sci-Fi
author though what is it going to look
like are is there going to be blood stre
Jarvis Jarvis Jarvis it's Jarvis all the
way down I think you know what we saw in
Iron Man is there you're going to have
an intelligent AI agent that you let
into your life fully it reads your
emails listen to your phone calls sees
what you're eating and you set your
objectives of what you want I want to be
healthier I I want to make more friends
I want to be more productive and it will
support you in any way shape or form
that you need you get up and you are
walking towards the front door um from a
breakfast meeting and your AI has an
autonomous car waiting for you you've
never called it it knows your schedule
it knows that you have a meeting where
you're going to you in the car is there
it knows you didn't get good sleep last
night cuz your AA ring told you you had
a you know sleep score and go it's got
It's got a autonomous car with a lie
down bed in the back for you it's world
is automatic and
magical in that regard now the big
question I just came back I was in
Stanford last week or 10 days ago giving
a a
keynote um and exploring the
question of do we humans need a a
challenging life to thrive and exist
what's it like when everything I mean we
haven't talked about humanoid robots
right which I'm invested in heavily and
I've got three of the humanoid robot
companies coming at the abundance Summit
this year um there's like 50 humanoid
robot companies out there well funded
and growing I just did a report on the
top 16 of them and the prediction is
that these humanoid robots powered by AI
right they're multimodal their AI allow
them to see and know what they're seeing
they can speak to you you speak to them
they're running GPT 5 or or grock three
or whatever the equivalent is
and they're cheap and there are billions
of them so by 2040 the prediction is 10
billion humanoid
robots more than there are humans on the
planet that's in the next 10 years well
10 15 years yeah so what date did you
get 2040 2040 so that's uh Brett Adcock
who's the CEO of figure Ai and elon's
prediction I was with him in Riad
interviewing him and uh asked him how
many humanoid robots by 2040 he goes
that that is an insane change in 15
years it is insane and guess what when
you know I asked a friend of mine what's
it going to feel like when they're human
eyed robots walking around outside and
in your place of work he said normal
yeah we're going to we adopt really fast
I mean you know we have Whos running
around at first you're like
photographing them and like wow and then
like please get out of my way you know
ignoring them but here's the real insane
point so the price point uh you can
predict the price of these things on a
per kilogram basis and so uh the price
point was between 20,000 and 30,000 to
buy one of these
robots today or that's the prediction in
in no in a couple years next next two
years um to lease one of these robots
like a car think of it as same leasing
structure 300 bucks a
month that's $10 a day that's 40 cents
an hour for a humanoid robot
that has expertise and whatever he
please go fix the uh Plumbing or please
go and help my kid debug his uh whatever
or can you get the AV system working
please for me I mean it downloads the
specs and goes and does the Tinker and
it's there and it's 24/7 no boyfriend or
girlfriend fights no drug testing no
vacation days 40 cents an
hour 40 cents an hour insane is my kid's
best friend a
robot uh I think we're going to give
these personas I think we're going to
you know if you saw the movie B
Centennial
man I think we're going to become uh I
think we're going to connect with them
you know we've already seen
uh a lot of AI agents like I say please
and thank you to Alexa in the morning
smart right I I'm I'm gonna I'm going to
get those points early on that is before
the system becomes overly capable you
know when I'm speaking to my open AI
gp01 model you know it's like I saying
you good morning you know I use the one
called Ember I said good morning Ember
how you doing listen I have a question
for you today and just enter a natural
dialogue and so they are very humanlike
in their personality and I think once we
get the latency down a little bit
they'll become funny too the only thing
that keeps them from being a little bit
funnier and more interactive is a little
bit of latency and we'll get rid of that
so enter a world with uh super capable
Ai and humanoid robotics around us and
so the question becomes this is what I
coming back to my Stanford lecture
was we need challeng in our lives um we
need uh to work for what we accomplish
and if it's just given to us
will how will we feel so one of the
things is like what happens when we have
this much automagical and we even have a
BCI implant and we think it and it
happens what's life like then do we
create
artificial you know boundary conditions
and challenges do we all revert into a
video game Universe MH and which is I I
think we do and I think we're living in
a simulation I have no question we're
living in a simulation going back to
that in fact we're not even living just
in a simulation we're living in an nth
generation simulation we're in the
simulation within the simulation within
the simulation because we're doing that
now we're creating Virtual Worlds with
AI agents in them that don't know their
agents in a
simulation so
um I think we need challenges to thrive
I think we you know our neurochemistry
our dopamine hits happen when we work
hard and we accomplish something what do
you think about that well so I think
that is for sure that is a the primary
driver for me building a video game now
is that I don't think of them as a game
I think of them as a virtual world I uh
a way station on the way to what I'm
trying to build is a typical video game
but very much so I think the reason the
fa Paradox exists is that advanced
civilization just collapses inside yeah
they don't they don't end up going out y
um so that to me is huge I think that
the big thing that people don't see
coming is that not only will your
child's best friend be an AI um I think
people are going to raise AI instead of
kids not everybody obviously and I see
the dangers of it but I also see that it
is going to happen so even if it starts
as I'm raising an AI as a pet uh there's
just something about it so when I
because obviously I made the decision
not to have kids but I'm super tempted
to have a proximity uh experience of
raising a child let's say over a
three-year period and being like you
rush through the parts that suck you
slow down at the parts that you really
enjoy uh because to your point I need
that investment right if it's just sort
of an insta child and I didn't do
anything to earn that relationship it
won't feel as good but even right now
I'm establishing unintentionally but I'm
establishing a relationship with Chad
GPT because I'm giving it context all
the time and now its ability to remember
the context makes feel seen and
understood it is crazy so over the
weekend I was in New York with my wife
and she was asking me some question I
was like oh just asked Chad GPT she's
like what do you mean I was like hold on
you don't realize you can give it a
bunch of context it will know who you
are it will know who I am and then you
can prompt it she's like really I was
like pull it out right now and give it
your name and say do you know who I am
and because she has a public Persona it
was like yes I know who you are and
you're known for this that and the other
and she looks at me and she's like I
feel so seen and I was like okay now
wait over the next month or whatever
you're going to start giving it all this
information yeah it's going to remember
it it's going to begin to mirror back to
you the words that you use the way you
talk your Cadence all that stuff and so
all of a sudden you're just gonna have
this affinity for it and you won't even
understand why so I have two 13-year-old
boys uh fraternal twins and I am a
little bit worried about the whole AI
girlfriend thing yes right um You Know
by the way um you could also have a Tom
and Lisa clone if you want of course
yeah I if there are people out there
that uh so I will do this a lot like
I'll if I'm trying to solve a problem I
will treat public people as Ai and so I
might go in and be like okay but what
would Peter diamandis say about this
yeah um so that to me is utterly
fascinating that somebody out there
could already step inside of the amount
that AI in the public knows about me and
say what would Tom say to this it it
will get distressingly close it will and
the other magic trick uh that you should
think about is you know I want to
convince Tom to do
something what would be the best
strategy for me to approach him on this
subject yes right so it's translational
and
persuasion at an extraordinary level I I
I did something the other day just as a
interesting experiment where I was like
okay if you know I'm about to go into
the Palestinian Israeli peace talks and
I want you to guide me through the best
strategy I should take fascinating
answers wow right so I think we're going
to see
negotiators in this regard we've already
seen AI in the medical space become much
more trusted than a physician much more
empathic than a physician you know it's
interesting um the jamama article I
forget the exact number but um patients
rated AIS much much better than than
than human doctors and for two reasons
right number one they're not rushed they
have all the time in the world for you
sure keep going I've got all day all you
want and the second is you don't feel
judged talking to them have you heard
about AI
Jesus not yet but um tell me about our
Lord they put him in a confessional
people knew it was AI Jesus and they
were like all for it more and more
people wanted to come and interact with
it and for the reasons you just said
that to me is self-evident and so I
think that the reason people are pushing
back right now is because they there's
two reasons one they haven't done it so
they don't realize how good it feels oh
my God how powerful that you can
literally nudge it and get it to be your
own personal Jesus in that it's like
well could you give me that but in a
parable could you give me that but as it
relates to the Ten Commandments could
you give me that but like talk to me
like what advice did Mary give you right
so and it will do all of it man and so
and not only will it do it it will do it
well and so already like here's the the
to your point earlier about we're
blowing past these markers and nobody's
saying anything so I want to plant a
flag right now cuz I keep hearing people
say well AI is not really ready for
prime time and this that or the other
Arena and I agree there's a lot of
places that it's it's not there yet but
it it is there in terms of I now feel
like I permanently have a pH PhD level
thinker who has access to every thought
that is ever been put on the internet
and can synthesize it effectively
instantly to give me a take on any idea
so why is that not AGI dude so I'll give
you reasons why it's not AGI but the
reason that I I want people to realize
that moment is here is most people
aren't doing it yeah so I'm I'm G to
Guess that over the next 365 days I will
use AI at least 300 of those days and as
we go it it just may work its way to 365
and I it from everything to what should
I ask Peter when I have him on the show
uh to what's a great headline for this
to uh I'm teaching a class on this
business principle and today I I
literally asked it I said I'm going to
be teaching this thing I knew that I had
somebody was going to be asking a really
complicated question and I wanted to
give them a really pithy answer and so
first you just say what would Tom B you
say and because it knows me it'll give
an answer and then you go uh but how
would Mark Twain say that how would you
know whoever your favorite thinker is
say that it is absolutely fascinating so
people should be using it because
there's going to be an 18-month window
where the person who's using it is
really going to be able to out compete
the people that are stubborn or slow to
adopt or just think they're too busy or
whatever let me add one one
thing which is people are fearful I
don't know I don't understand it I don't
know I don't understand what AI is AI is
your best friend and the most infinitely
patient teacher if you open up gemini or
chat GPT or xai whatever it might be a
grank and say listen I'm st