Kind: captions
Language: en
alhamdulillah we can gather here
together this morning in such a
fortunate event of Friday morning
lecture on BI refiner already present
here with us is Professor ramaraj buatti
from Nicole State University USA to give
the talk and I'm very thankful for
Professor Raj as we actually have 13
hours
different yeah yeah so it is in the
evening in the US now
and I will first introduce Professor Raj
buatti he is the LC fourer distinguished
service professor and John Brady senior
and John Brady Junior and professor in
nicool State University Luciana Us in
Department of biological
science he did his Bachelor to master uh
to doctoral degree in India and go to
various part of the world before uh
settled in us and he is the editor of
many reputable
Journal Environmental Quality and
management cure and pollution report
applied science and I cannot mention all
of them because there are so
many and his field of Interest are
antibiotic resident uh resistance
microbiology bior remediation ethanol
production and
biodegradation and well there's a long
list of
achievement but last year he got uh he
was awarded worldclass Professor from
Indonesian
government that is the most important
for us because we are in
Indonesia and without further
delay uh we would like to welcome
Professor Raj to give the talk on lnos
cus bioethanol and microbial lipid for
bioenergy okay Professor Raj the time is
yours all right thanks Dr P it's good to
see you all and today this is my fourth
lecture in this lecture series and today
I'm going to talk about biofuels and
mostly
liosan um let me share my slides um get
my slides open yes yeah all right um so
what I'm going to talk about because of
the mixed audience students in different
um you know classifications from
graduate student to undergrad I'm going
to start with some basic um what is
ethanol what is cellulosic ethanol and
then talk about the current technology
in the US commercial level and then uh
complete my talk with my uh personal
research on this field uh how we going
to use this L material holistically not
only the sugar but also liin um using
microbial liquid as using liin to
convert to microbial liquid so I'm going
to start with basic and and finish with
applied research okay
um so first of all G Green Technology is
the best word now Green Technology is
continuously evolving group of
methods constantly developing people are
um you know finding new methods uh not
only generating energy to also various
processes including non-toxic cleaning
products uh the most urgent issue here
is the alternative fuels because the
petroleum is going to run out eventually
so you need to find other other fuel
sources especially the renewable ones so
uh Green Technology in the alternative
Fiel is used to be a really hot topic
but um it's catching up again after we
go through this o petroleum oil price
come down now we're getting again back
on the research so it's a if you look at
this Green Technology it encompasses a
lot of things it does the
sustainability uh it also does Source
reduction of waste material in
innovation of course there a lot of new
ideas new methods developed and also
socioeconomic aspect of it and viability
CR Cradle to cradle design so it it's
really a good deal it holistic approach
uh it combines a lot of things Green
Technology okay so let's talk about
ethanol so ethanol is this molecule C2
H5
um2 this one is the molecular model and
we have the since it has oxygen it is a
better burning fuel right so you
actually blend 10% ethanol in Us in all
the gasoline product
nowadays so if you look at the
fermentation reaction the starting
material is sugar uh mostly glucose and
then yeast convert glucose to ethanol
and carbon dioxide that's a simple
design um but you also get two molecules
of carbon dioxide from one molecule of
glucose and two molecular ethanol you
get and just to show you the structure
of how it goes through the py weight
through glycolysis and then you have uh
ethanol production through acetal deide
okay so just to show you the simple
schematic so from glucose through
glycolysis molecular to pyate and the
East gets two ATP for its energy source
and then pyate is converted to acetal
deide and then acetal ethanol and this
NAD is constantly recyle um going back
to generate more ATP so this is a
simplistic view of um the the
biochemistry in glucose ferment ation to
ethanol
um if you look at grain ethanol
it basically come from grain in US is
mostly corn and then other countries in
Brazil they use sugar cane and then
other grains as well and potatoes is
another source you get um anywhere any
any material that are starch you could
use it for this purpose okay so it's
very energy efficient is 25% more energy
than is used to grow Harvest and distill
into it so if you look at energy output
energy input
ratio it's it's it's positive side 1.6
is the ratio okay from output to
input if you compare gasoline with with
ethanol ethanol is very comparable so
Octan a number in E85 85% ethanol um
fuel is 100 compared to gasoline 86 to
90 for um the fuel source of gasoline is
crude oil but here you have variety of
agriculture product you could use and
BTU is also comparable with
70% of energy ratio in ethanol and both
are liquid so we need liquid fuel for
transportation purpose so it's really
good uh a little bit of more
biochemistry so the starting material is
a corn or potato any starch material so
you have to hydrolize and convert come
to sugar and then and glucose is through
glycolysis you convert yeast converted
to pyu and then use py DEC carboxilate
convert py to acet alide and then
alcohol
dehydrogenase convert acet alide to
ethanol at a simple biochemical pathway
and just to show what are the enzymes
involved you need to have convert star
to glucose you need mlas um and then
from glucose to pyade
the ATP is transferred and then you had
pyro for oxygen oxid reductase enzyme
convert pyro to acet co and AC acetogen
convert AC Co to AC
alide and
thenal then the enzy ethanol dehydrogen
convert them to ethanol so these are
various steps in fermentation
reaction so if you look at holistically
so most of the East use the um car six
carbon sugar um fermentation and we also
have pentos using sugar East like Pia
stas okay so we have uh the the process
of glycolysis and also simulation
process use them to generate energy
fermentation reaction then pentos
phosphate pathway so if you look at it
you have from hexo sugar transporter can
transport the sugar inside the yeast and
then from there it goes through um uh
glycolysis process and then if it you
start with five carbon you go through
the Pento sugar
transporter transport them inside the
zylos and from there it convert them if
you look at all of them end up in pyu
and then pyu um involve converting them
to acetal and ethanol so this is um you
know just put them all the reaction
together so you can do six carbon and
five carbon depending on the East TR and
also now we use the
modern Gene technology to put one
organism can do both five carbon six
carbon
metab um in a bioprocessing standpoint
you get your raw material then go
through milling and then a big
hydrolysis process you add enzyme amas
to convert the all
the starch into sugar and then you put a
big fermentation tank and use ye to
experiment and then you do product
separation and then you use a co-product
and use dry distill grind for various
purpose like you know feet for animals
and all that so this is just a
bioprocessing steps involved in
converting grin um con con ethanol in us
so just more steps to show you um making
grin ethanol in dry Milling so you need
to grind it up make a liquefaction Stu
to mix with water and and heat them and
make a mash out of that to starch and
then you have scarification step to add
amiz to convert them to sugar and then
you add yeast and to start your
fermentation and then then yeast can do
this job produce ethanol and C2 and then
you do the processing in the other end
where you distillate separate ethanol
and then dehydrate and denature make
sure it is unfit for human consumption
and then you do co-products to use that
like grind for livestock feed and CO2
can be compressed and used in many
different way so this is different steps
involved in gr
ethanol H this is a very mature
technology in the US we have more than
200 Commercial plant if you look at all
these um um plant located most of them
are in Midwestern State this is where
the cor production is and um we produce
7 to eight billion gallon of ethanol
every year from this corn ethanol alone
so this technology is mature and and
it's really doing well
okay but cellulos is a different uh you
know animal itself so there's a lot of
steps involved because of pre-treatment
um of course it starts with the plant
material it's made from plants are made
of cellulose cellulose provides
structure to the plant so you need to
get the cellulose out of this ligin
cellulose complex and we can use any um
plant
biomass agriculture residue um are you
know saw dust paper and paper pulp and
and some crops that is call Energy crop
like switch grass and all that so you
can use any biomass for this cellulosic
ethanol
production the concept is simple so you
get the residue you need to do
pre-treatment steps to delignify remove
the ligin and release the cellulose and
hemicellulose and then you do enzimatic
hydrolysis get your sugar from cellulose
to get glucose from hemicellulose to get
xylos sugar and then the step once you
get your sugar the steps are the same
fermentation and processing and you get
it so that's a simple concept of lnos so
the steps here are this pre-treatment
step and enzimatic hydrolysis step that
is more involved
and costs more and it's one of those you
know limiting steps in this process um
so when you get all these feed stock you
can either do biochemical conversion
which is what I just um showed you and
also you can do thermochemical
conversion so thermochemical conversion
is involve pyrolysis gasification like
Fisher Trove um and then you you get
variety of product through refining not
only ethanol you can buy get butanol oin
gasoline Diesel and then you can use the
the lignin as a Coen for generating
electricity so not only biochemical you
can also use thermochemical conversion
from Fe various feet
stock so it's a the ethanol is good
mainly because it contains um oxygen
adding oxygen to fuel is you know give
you complete fuel combustion and so as a
result um we have 10% of gas um ethanol
is added as a blend in the US currently
Brazil has all the way to E85 85%
ethanol there the advantage of adding
ethanol with the oxygenated fuel is um
you reduce your carbon monoxide emission
and Par matter emission like 50% and
volatile organic compound emission
reduced by 7% so it's like a air
pollution control so it's another
advantage of using ethanol as your
bii so if you look at the projection
from us from cellulosic Material how
much ethanol can be made just from
agriculture waste alone they're
projecting to make 50 billion gallons of
ethanol but potentially you can make 80
billion gallon from all the residues
that they make from various crops in the
US if you use energy crop like switch
grass and other energy crop in marginal
land you cultivate those energy crop and
use it for cellulosic ethanol you can
make 165 billion gallon ethanol per year
okay and that's more than enough for the
country's need and so this is what they
trying to go through in this route and
we had a hiccup in Trump Administration
everything came to a stop but hopefully
this research will go back again and try
to achieve these
goals so the motivation of Bio energy is
three default um you can use the damage
part of the stock and also the residue
that is coming from agriculture
operation for the energy production and
as I said it's less air pollution from
vehicle because of the oxygenated Fuel
and also less burning of crop after
Farmers um harvest the um crop they they
burn the crop for the next year U
plowing next year agriculture operation
so as a result every year
um the fields are burned and you get
pollution air pollution so the you have
motivation to uh reduce air pollution um
and also you have um know energy
security as
well so this just to show you an example
in India every year we have the smog uh
from burning rice crop and also in China
we they have a smog in Beijing so just
to show you pictures of air pollution
from agriculture burning operation this
is the recurring theme every year we
have this problem and nobody's
addressing
it um so the the process involved is not
only just to make ethanol then you had
to do distribution and end use so it's
like a lot of people are involved in
this um steps not only scientists but
engineers and Economist and you know
business people involved so if you're
going to make a more
moreos if you're going to um use land to
produce more fuel crop then initially
you're going to generate more greenhouse
gas because you're going to plow the
land put the biomass in there plant in
there you're going to have some PM
emission going to go up initially but
eventually it's going to you know going
to be neutralize because your land is
going to be continuously used so if
you're preparing the land
initially going to you know have some
pollution
problem so if you look at the biomass
itself it's it's a new crude um sugar is
a crude biomass also is a crude um so it
basically petroleum was one time is a
biomass right all the petroleum products
are started with biomass one time so
same ingredient that made oil is what we
are using now um so the we going to
speed up the process the waste materials
to create renewable energy so you could
start with lot of different crops waste
material biochemical conversion to get
your sugar go through fermentation
catalysis and then you can produce lot
of things not only energy but also other
sugar platform you can put other
chemicals Fine Chemicals you can make
okay so it's a it's a sugar is a new
crude according to American petroleum
Institute so the energy demand is keep
going up worldwide and if you look at it
um um the the the two most country that
use energy high is China and us and then
we have Europe and India are in top four
countries the demand going to keep going
up every year so we need to find new
energy for the
masses so the projection of the energy
is if you look compared 2011 to 2040 the
petroleum uh energy source going to go
down um com from 37% to
31% um and then you're going to have the
biomass going to go up uh according to
the International Energy Research
Institute and so you can just to show
you um you're going to have new
non-conventional sources um is the major
source um in in the future okay because
you're going to deplete your petroleum
Reserve um eventually going to run out
of
it so the imbalance is supply and demand
uh a fuel um so you need to kind of
balance this out and why because people
are moving to big cities and um so this
is how it was in the last century um and
in
1900 now you know cities look like this
so increase in urbanization change in
lifestyle so your energy demand is going
to be high so you need to have liquid
fuel for your transportation currently
that's hopefully that will change
because of electric
car um so solution for all this is
currently it's biofuel okay and probably
50 years from now it could be different
so biofuel is the energy Demand right
now computer is acting
up let's get
this so um let's look at how you can
what are the different biofuel you make
uh you can make a liquid biofuel you can
make gases biofuel not only ethanol you
can make biobutanol um biodiesel
biomethane biohydrogen in the gaseous
form in gas and methane and hydrogen we
call biohythane so these are various
possibilities so currently we're going
to talk about ethanol but we are people
also look into other energy and S
production so one more um uh slide about
advantage of banol is is threefold as I
said is better for the environment
better use of product from Agriculture
and food security and you have um you
know all this carbon neutral better
biodegradation less air pollution
greenhouse gas emission reduce
dependence on oil so you have energy
security and diversification agriculture
so you have taken care of the rural
economy so people in the rural um side
so my computer is acting after um rural
areas can also be taken care of by
participating in this field and you can
have this um energy a lot of different
product and you can also make Fine
Chemicals once you get the sugar you can
you know through bioprocessing you can
make lot of product whatever in
demand sorry about that I think I'm
going to go with this here
um so uh so we already know what is um
this classification of the fuel the
first gen is corn ethanol mainly um and
then we have second gen which is lios
cellulosic third gen biofuel is all
bopes and then fourth one is biohydrogen
okay um if you look at this various crop
that we call that second generation
substrate and you can grow them in um uh
on on and uncultivable land so the the
land that are not usually used for
agriculture you can use them this
biomass crop because they don't need um
better conditions okay you need less
amount of water to grow um it's not
going to interfere with the food chain
so there is no food versus fuel debate
here um there lot of L biomass can be
cultivated in this way so you have more
um resources available okay
um so if you look at the biomass the
problem is this uh getting the ligin
removed and get the these two sugar
containing complex out cellulose and
hemicellulose okay so if you look at the
biomass itself the major component of it
is um uh ligin hemicellulose and
cellulose and depending on the crop and
the biomass it varies so yeah up to 50%
in some cross crop cellulose so these
are the three major ones so we can use
the sugar and then we could use liin for
other purposes so in my case I'm going
to use ligin to make microbial lipids
okay so how how this is all started in
big way it started because in during
Bush Administration second Bush um we
had this oil price went up almost $110 a
barrel so the President Bush promoted um
cellulosic ethanol concept and then and
uh President Obama took it forward and
gave a lot of incentive lot of companies
put commercial plan and then politics
change and now everything is not doing
well uh so hopefully it will do well in
the future so I want to just give some
basic facts about this um so we do not
need energy but we need services that
energy provides uh those services are
heat light mobility and Mobility you
need this liquid field currently right
um so energy has fundamentally different
quality so all BTUs are not created
equal
um our society will literally stop if
there is no liquid field currently so we
need there is a demand for liquid field
so liquid Fields
um not energy are required for Mobility
for the for at least few decades at
least you know electric cars are picking
up but at least for you know few more
decades we need liquid f so just to show
you the whole society will come to stop
if if you don't have liquid Fiel
available um if you look at all energy
carriers um um have not have say um do
not have equal strategic import because
of if you look at different energy like
coal us and China have plenty of them
right and domestic resource and natural
go gas you have a lot from Canada and
Mexico and petroleum um during this
energy crisis 60% was imported but Curr
currently us is um energy exporting
country because of um you know drill B
we drill um last few years we've been
drilling everywhere even in National
Park and um and also fracking uh the new
way to get Shale um petroleum from sh
so we are producing more but but people
are predicting this is not going to last
long okay um so it's going to that's why
we need to have a alternative because
petroleum can undermine a lot of thing
climate security Economic Security and
International Security and World
stability so so all countries need to
have their own energy um Independence so
the biofuel and liquid um cellulosic
ethanol is a way to go um according to
many many many scientists
okay um so the Cal is the you know
alternative to
petroleum for these reason as I said um
National Security greenhouse gas
reduction and economic advantage and
also uh the the presentation of
emphasize in this particular talk I'm
going to talk about cellulosic ethanol
from various biomasses
so again go through one more time the
schematic this is the schematic for
ethanol from corn you get corn kernels
and um go through the um hydrolysis and
um get sugar and fermentation process
and and they do distillation drying and
ethanol get ethanol out and then you get
co-product that goes to mainly animal
feed in us and this is sugar cane like
in Brazil H sugar comes out of sugar
cane and goes straight through this prod
almost the same you have this because of
the sugar you don't have this hydrolysis
step for the sugar
can
um and then if you look at the um um the
cellulosic ethanol have a lot of steps
involved pre-treatment hydrolysis and
then once you get the sugar the process
is the same there is no difference okay
and then um you can also include the
thermochemical conversion so you get the
after pre-treatment you get the solids
and use this thermochemical conversion
to get heat power and and Fuel and
chemicals
okay
um if you look at all commodity um there
are the price of this energy based on
raw material how much it's going to
cause the feet stock and the processing
right so when you started in gas in
initially the cost was getting the raw
material and um and then the processing
cost keep going down in the future so so
the same thing we are predicting for
lnos cellos lnos ethanol production um
how much is going to cost the raw
material and what is the processing cost
the processing cost going to uh going to
go down because of Technology because of
research okay um so we have this Mar to
play with depending this um cic ethanol
is tied to the gasoline price um so the
gasoline price fluctuate if you look at
last 20 years you know so we have this
big fluctuation so we can uh so we need
to have a stable price um that's why
these companies that are set up to make
this are failing currently because
petrol is cheap currently it's really
cheap
here so he how the price for the raw
material and then the processing cost if
you look at the um initial uh petroleum
energy um started uh there was the cost
for the oil was less but processing was
high and then all this refining uh
research reduced the cost of processing
and then because then the dwindling
energy Supply so now your raw material
is going to be h going to cost more and
your processing cost less so so this is
the same scenario we are looking at in
cellulos initially processing going to
cost once the technology mature your
processing cost going to go down but the
same way it played for petroleum
industry so just to show that that's
what happened in Brazil in Brazil when
it started this whole um ethanol
production there energy independent
country the ethanol cost went down um
because of the processing um cost went
down um because of research and
Technology um to make this
possible so we are we are advocating the
same principle
for Theos cellulosic ethanol production
as well so here is today's cost you if
you look at it the processing is more
because of enzy cost pre-treatment steps
all that going to cost more um biomass
prices less but in the future we are
predicting because of technology and
science this cost going to go down and
and the biomass is going to be the cost
going to go up production of the biomass
going to go up okay so very similar
principle is what is expected in in the
future so when when the cic ethanol was
at Peak here like 10 years ago we had
these commercial companies set up shop
in us they were producing commercially
from um corn store and um um they used
different pre-treatment the one of the
successful one was aex um pre-treatment
I'm going to talk about in a minute uh
but currently all of them are bankrupt
because of political change and oil
price so so so we had so many success
story and then
um again it it follows the price of oil
so so if you look at the the process
itself uh you you get your biomass and
you have the harvesting storage size
reduction and then you have the
pre-treatment step and and you enzyme
you need to have enzyme production and
then Hy hydrolysis step and you get the
sugar and then you get a fermentation of
sugar to make your ethanol and then you
have the residue and the waste treatment
so this is the complete picture of how
all this commercial company um you know
did this process okay but the
pre-treatment Step was different for
different companies
okay so this is the whole view we get
the harvesting storage and so um size
reduction of biomass transportation to
the field and that's that's an all cost
involved then pre-treatment and um then
the process these steps are um almost
similar but the pre-treatment and entic
stuff are different depending on the
different company so one of the
successful pre-treatment versus FX which
is the ammonia fiber expansion method uh
so we use they use ammonia and for tree
treatment sta in a reactor so when you
heat the biomass at 100° with
concentrated ammonia you have a um rapid
pressure that release the end treatment
as a result you get the sugar release
but there is no other Inhibitors that's
one of the advantage of ax there is no
fural for five hydroxy methy for no
Inhibitors produced during FX process so
this is very successfully used
commercially and people are um hoping
this is the way to go in most of the
Midwestern states in the US so they did
the lot of comparison there's a price
for using dilute acid pre-treatment h
hot water and then here's a effect a141
per gallon of
ethanol and then you can compare with
other um tree treatment process so this
this method um is commercially used in
three different companies and very
successfully and the cost also went down
because you can reduce ammonia and
recycle ammonia then you can also reduce
Capital cost um doing affx analysis I'm
going to do a couple of modeling and and
see how this price is going to go down
okay currently they're pricing
a141 per gallon of ethanol during FX
process okay and this is the enal model
National renewable energy lab um and
then if you look at the price in the
future by Consolidated bioprocessing you
can make ethanol 62 cents per gallon
this is a model they're predicting and
also go below 60 cents you when the
technology mature okay so they're hoping
this model will compete with the oil
petroleum price and this is going to
take off in the new Administration um
coming
up um if you look at what is happening
because of the inexpensive ethanol you
have um other problems we have um
environmental Improvement possible um
rural economy is in US
all the rural people are really dying
out though there's nothing to live for
so they're hoping this technology will
revive the economy in the rural area and
um also you have more food for the
animal because of the distill and the
grin that comes out through the process
you get animal feed possible so these
are additional um uh incentive to
develop this technology and people are
pushing for the is in US
currently um so the Michigan State
University come up with this plan um if
you if if this
technology has to be you know taken up
Nationwide and also internationally you
need to have this set up in small rural
areas like like a Cooperative so you can
reduce the transportation cost so to get
the biomass to the plant so you set up
this Regional biomass processing center
and then get your pre-treatment going uh
and then you can make um a lot of
product you get your high value um users
and you can get um you know the waste
whatever waste you can do Coen per power
plant and then you have a bio refinary
to make your ethanol so this this is
available in in the Michigan State
University website and this model is
what they are predicting is the future
for this industry
then there are certain myth out there um
I just want to clear some of those uh so
myth number one is ethanol has negative
net energy um in reality gasoline's net
energy is worse than ethanol if you
compare this metric is not is not
relevant okay another myth is ethanol
will drive up food prices because the
debate of food versus f is a little
complicated there's no easy sound B for
this um but cellulosic ethanol will you
know will not compete with food because
we looking at the biomass and waste from
agriculture operation and it reduces the
greenhouse gas and air pollution and the
another myth is ethanol is bad for the
environment what we are comparing to
what you're saying ethanol is bad uh if
you look at K ethanol it's actually SEC
gasoline um for most metrics cellos EOL
is will be better because again we using
base product mostly ethanol will always
cost more than gasoline currently it is
true but ethanol from corn we are making
um in the commercial sector they're
making a120 a gallon uh from cellulos as
as a model indicate you can make 60
cents a gallon so so these are what they
are hoping could happen to this industry
and going to pick up again okay so the
another part was um getting this ligning
out of the um out of the biomass to get
the sugar so mostly people are working
on pre-treatment of chemicals like acid
alkaline ionic liquids and um but we can
also use
biological processes using fungi to
remove the ligant and so you can combine
these two methods uses little bit of
acid treatment also combined with the
fungal enzyme to remove the ligning so
so if you look at it there's a lot of
fungal enzyme lactases and peroxidases
could be used and um so just to show um
why L is there in the first place to
protect the plant and now we can use
this um fungal enzyme to you know use
this in this
technology so we can uh use this um
pre-treatment and you can use this uh
fungal as a biological pre-treatment
method and try to reduce the price of
the whole technology so I'm going to
talk about that in my
research uh just to show you there are a
lot of pre-treatment out there and these
are the acid alkaline and then physical
chemical method and enzimatic Method and
the two commonly used method the one is
the ammonia fiberx
which is already commercialized in us
and ionic liquid pre treatment is also
good but it is expensive currently but
commercially not um possible compared to
FX
process and I am advocating biological
pre-treatment using um various fungus
because this fungi produce a lot of
these enzyme manganese peroxidase liin
peroxidase and La cases um so we can use
uh some of these fungi that are high
efficient um biologically they can
remove liin
okay
um it's also um you know it's very
targeted these enzyme only attack line
so the sugar is not degraded uh so if
you stop the reaction then you can get
the whole sugar and you don't have any
Inhibitors that is produced during this
process uh you can easily recover the
enzyme and reuse the enzyme so the cost
will go up another advantage using
biological um pre-treatment using enzyme
is this water uh um reduction so if you
look at all this method um you're using
a lot of water in pre-treatment but if
you if you use the biological method the
water usage is very very less all right
so you produce less waste you consume
less uh water in the whole processes so
this is the way that I advocate in my
research to use biological pre-treatment
using fungal
enzyme um just to show you the enzymes
involved a lot of different enzymes you
can use in in your in the process but
generally there are all Lac cases
manganese
peroxidase all those enzymes are
commonly used
okay and we can also people are looking
in now enzyme from different sources
like termite um different crbs insects
and they're looking at microbes inside
their guts because these are all biomass
processing insect they eat these plant
material and so they're trying to get
some novel enzymes So currently the
triodes is the the one that industrially
used for enzyme for the getting
hydrolysis but also looking at different
um sources to get novel
enzy so again uh you need to get the
ligning out release this um cellulose
using the cellulose enzyme so you can
get them from various sources and when
you do that and this is how the
biological uh pre-treatment look like uh
you get your
biomass uh you get your um process your
Bas in the powder form or whatever form
that is CA effective and then use this
enzyme to
delignify you can use the whole fungus
or you can use the enzyme out of the
fungus and process it and then you that
will get your sugar out and then you
have this bio ethanol production from
various sugar and you get your ethanol
from lios cellulosic so uh my research
is to combine one of those chemical
method and the biological method to make
it more efficient so that's what I'm
going to talk about from my personal
research so just to show you if you use
these enzyme you can see the picture raw
biomass and pre-treated biomass you can
see what these enzyme can do to get the
ligning out and make the structure uh
after it is pre-treated with this
enzymes so um less water use it's a
better method and can be recycled is
also cost effective
okay so with this broad overview
on uh how this cor ethanol solic ethanol
and some commercial plan already in the
US they started and then now bankrupt
and hopefully they'll go back because of
a um the bioprocessing cost is coming
down through research okay so I was
involved uh seven eight years ago um uh
in this uh field I my research was
funded by Department of energy um so I'm
going to share some of my uh research
with you in this field okay so as I said
my research was to reduce the cost so
you want to combine the biological
method with the chemical method for
pre-treatment so you can reduce the cost
and make it more economically viable
this process so we I don't have to go
through this we already talk about why
we talk we use the fuel liquid fuel
because it's mainly for transportation
purpose and then this liquid fuel um
from the energy source we uh it's also
carbon neutral once this process mature
once you get new land into cultivable
land um then you can see most of them
will be carbon will be recycle and
become carbon neutral and release less
CO2 and less greenhouse gases okay
um so this is currently we account for
1% of world energy from demand from
biofield I'm hoping this this number is
going to go up when when new government
takes up uh in US uh so we need to
make
moreos ethanol more economically viable
and feasible okay so this was a old
figure when I started the research the
doe wanted to have this 60 billion
gallon ethanol production and they
wanted to get this
$233 at that time the oil price was high
H but now you know it's now they want to
have a dollar2 so so that's a new
figure so I was involved in um the sugar
cane uh as a raw material because
Louisiana is a sugar cane producing
state one of the major crop is sugar Su
cane and um so we have a lot of this
after sugarcane Harvest we have this
Leaf litter on the ground um currently
they burn it so you can collect this
leaf and use it for L ethanol production
we can also use energy cane so there are
some sugar cane that are classified as
energy cane because it has more um
cellulose and
hemicellulose and this can be grown year
around and it can be grown in um non
aable land because they they disas
taller and there a lot of advantage of
using this energy
cane so just to show you there are
different type of sugar cane this is
commercial sugar cane this energy can
one energy can two you can see the
difference in cellulose semic cellulose
and sugar content in this crop okay so
there are varieties um different
varieties we used I'm going to talk
about the one variet
um that for my research because of
time um so we we collected this type S
which is energy can two from the USDA
research station um for our research we
brought the lab and dried it and process
it um to do your pre-treatment Stu again
just to show you um we need to remove
the ligning get the cellulose and
hemicellulose out you can use chemical
or biological free treatment
so once you get cellulose it's 100% um
glucose right so once you get the hyd
hydratic steps the cellulose can be
broken down to get your
sugar um and then when you remove
hemicellulose you have this pentos and
hexos that makes hemicellulose We
combinely call xylos we get all the
sugar released that could be used in
your fermentation process and then we
have uh this lignin all right uh ligin
could be in the other process they use
in Coen uh but I am proposing to use
this liin using specific bacteria to
make
microbial lipids which could be used as
biodiesel so uh the my research is using
everything uh from the biomass sugar
both pentos and EXO sugar and also um
the ligant for microbial lipid
production
uh this is just a cartoon to show how
the steps work uh get your pre-treatment
get your entic digestion fermentation
distillation um so what type of enzyme
to use to get your um sugar released
okay so our objective is to try this
particular type to energy can when I
compare various pre-treatment combined
with biologic iCal treatment optimize
the condition and then um how best we
can use the biological and one of these
pre-treatment method in our
research um so we started in small scale
um and we used the acidfree treatment um
and using sulfuric acid weak sulfuric
acid and then we you know processed it
and then we get the Lig out of the um
pre-treatment steps then we use en start
to get the the glucose out for
fermentation and then we use various
fungus we use the whole fungus white rat
fungus brown rat fungus and then use
this Sol State fungal treatment and this
method was advocated by Dr ranish suari
when she visited here as a full bright
scholar so this is from her research uh
so we started using this method uh whole
fungal inoculation and look at softening
of the
Li and then they have entic
scarification step we use this different
enzyme for cellulosic enzyme and xylinas
for hemos so we get both um pentos and
hexos out of this biomass
okay uh we used the first East and then
we used the recom and eoli this recom e
like can ferment both pentos and and
hexic sugar so we can have better eeld
okay so just to show you uh just a
pre-treatment alone comparing um
different acid pre treatment so if you
look at you know 4% versus 1% um
4% of acid volume by weight work better
um in terms of ethanol we we not using
anything else no entic stuff just
pre-treatment whatever sugar that come
out um so you can see that um between
three and four there is no significant
difference in ethanol eel so we
advocated 3% sulfuric acid could be the
better way to go for this pre-treatment
stuff for this particular biomass and we
also want to compare whether alkaline
will work uh so alkaline pre-treatment
we increase the pH uh from you know
eight all the way to 13 and you can look
at 13 work better but then there's no
difference between 12 and 13
statistically so we stick with
PH2 this is biological so you can use um
uh individually the white rod and brown
rod puni in in a solid state
fermentation or you can combine these
two together so when you put these two
fungi together your ethanol yield was
better so so we advocated putting this
fungi together to soften up the
ligin so just to show just without doing
anything how much sugar is released in
this process you can see glucose and
xylos yielded various pre-treatment and
you can see the 3% 4% acid there's not
much different and and then the fungal
pre-treatment when you combine these two
fungi you have better sugar yield in our
lab experiment okay and then we we went
with
a step of how we can combine these two
biological and um acid free treatment um
so we the idea here is when you collect
biomass in a large scale you have to
store the biomass anyway right so during
the storage process you can use this two
fungi to spray it on the uh bi Mass uh
uh and then after you know couple of
days then you do the pre- treatment step
so in this way you can use less acid um
so this is just to show you when you use
the ethanol your acid pre-treatment uh
your concentration is less you don't
have to use 3% you can use 1% acid so
your acid cost going to go down so that
that's experiment we did just to show
you you just use this two fungi together
for two days um and then you put those
fungi in acid treatment and come compare
various acid treatment so without fungi
you need 3% acid with fungi two day
storage you need only one person acid
okay so this makes sense so this will be
economically viable process
okay um so that yield was not that good
when he did did the ethanol so then we
did the genetic
engineering uh we took this eoli and and
then we just did some knockout
experiment we put some
zamonas gene into this
eoli and try to get better yield of
ethanol so want to get um theoretical
yield of ethanol so those thing are
without genetically modified organism
just the East now we are using this
recombinant eoli just to show you so we
did some genetic knockout so we knocked
out some of the genes in this eoli um
because this eoli can produce from sugar
variety of product not only ethanol it
also produce acid succinate lactate so
we knocked out the genes that produce
all these product by only allow the gene
that produce ethanol so in this way when
we have this come in an eoli you can
make get 95% yield okay so we got this
eoli to work um and and after we did
this combined pre-treatment with the
fungus and the acid and just to show you
the the process uh so here is your xyo
sugar going down here is your growth of
your eoli and organic acid when there is
no knockout when you knock out those
genes you don't have any acids you
produce everything one product ethanol
so this is uh you know almost
theoretically getting from this
process H so with with that we scaled up
this process and we used
Bas which is coming out of the solid
waste coming out the Sugar Mill um to to
do the same step combined with the fungi
uh two days of storage and then you use
one person acid and then use this recom
Coline okay and we used
um variety of enzyme to get the sugar
out of this because the Sugar Mill they
didn't care they wanted to you know find
out how much maximum sugar they can get
so if you look at it we use lot of
different enzyme we can live with couple
of enzyme but we wanted to show uh
complete use of of the biomass so so in
this case we use lot of enzyme but I
will Advocate we can live with maybe
couple of enzymes so we don't have to
worry about you know arabos those are
all very small amount in the in the
biomass we want to use all the sugar
that comes out of hemus so we scaled up
to 5 lit and then to 100 liter um I'm
going to show you some results from that
experiment using recombinate so here is
the the biggest scale experiment and you
can see um after the processing of the
bagas with two days of um fungal
treatment 1% of acid um your glucose
yield and xylos yield uh in their
fermentor and they all went down because
the EOL can use both sugar and both
sugar went down and then eolic growth
went up they're using sugar to grow and
then the total sugar when combine these
two sugar the total sugar go down and
then your ethanol yield coming up okay
so in this 100 lit experiment we did not
get theoretical yield yet we still have
to play with this process a little bit
uh we we got some hiccup so if you look
at it we didn't get
4.49 mole we only got half of it so we
need to improve this process further so
this particular experiment um we combine
two pre-treatment so the the the logic
behind is when the companies Harvest
this biomass they have to store it
anyway uh so during the storage they can
use this two fungi and then they can use
less pre-treatment so that will save
some money so that's the concept behind
this research okay so we used the pentos
and um exos sugar now we have Li right
so we wanted to use Li so the idea here
is to find an organisms that could use
all polyphenol that come of ligin come
out of ligin and then you know convert
them to microbial lipids and could use
as biodiesel right so so we can use
every part of the
biomass so um just to show you why we
went on this microb lipid angle again
the same story we have we got a have the
energy we need the biomass uh is one of
those way to go I don't want to repeat
this again um this is again how much
energy can be produced from biomass and
this is a US goal in 2022 and they're
not going to achieve it um currently
we're producing 10 billion because of
the government change the Trump
Administration completely shut down this
so we are not making this so hopefully
this yield will go up in the future the
US um so you can the process is to go
through fermentation and make biofuel
and then in the
other way how they make bio diesel is
transesterification from plant material
right so we want to make microbial
liquids as a so way to go make
biodiesel um so just to show you the
government change screwed up the whole
um process of Bio energy in the US so
the last four years the energy policies
changed and drill baby drill regulations
are relaxed for petroleum industry and
completely shut down
liic activity in the US many commercial
ventes went
bankrupt so these are the company that I
pointed out before um all most of them
uh went bankrupt this one is still
operational duon in Iowa is still
operational uh the fulcrum is still
functioning and the other companies went
bankrupt so because of government change
in
policy so again uh the biodiesel concept
is simple so you get your um uh biomass
and you do your pre- treatment uh and
then you you go through this
transesterification process and you get
your biodiesel and then you get glycer
in as your byproduct and um so the steps
involve trans recation steps involve
your methanol and your glycerol is one
of the product you get variety of
different uh lipids that come out okay
as a biodel so the organism we chose was
this oogenus micro rocus rocr um rocr
opas is also one of the good one so we
chose Roc rocoss which is because it's
also bio remediate
microbes it is very versatile so the
this organisms can convert um the sugar
into um final compound into um lipid
inclusion bodies and you can easily
separate this um so it doesn't involve
any big distillation to get him out so
it just open the cell you get the lipids
out the easy bioprocessing of getting
biodiesel
uh so we uh we started out small and and
and did a pilot plan study on this in
Mississippi State University with the
chemical engineering department there um
I'm going to show you how we started by
using the ROC caucus with um first
glucose and then we use the
ligin polyphenolic compound okay um
again the concept of using is um this
way if you go through this uh bio
microbial Liquid Concept This is highly
efficient compared to growing plants and
getting the
biod and you can you know grow
microorganisms really easily in a big
tank and and you make more out of this
compared to growing
plants
so okay sorry about that and my computer
is acting up today I'm trying to get
this again started
[Music]
so um just to show that this is the
concept um you get the the L paste get
I'm sorry Rich the screen is not yet sh
oh it's not showing yes okay I think I
have a problem with there today do you
want us to show your
presentation yeah you have it with you
yes uh Gund can you help
us yes
okay yeah start with this um slide that
shows the rocus
[Music]
I have
[Music]
it so you canect yeah I can see
[Music]
here yeah go down all the way to the
micro liquid part
in the slide 110 or something G yeah
something like that
[Music]
yeah and while waiting uh you can also
ask the question in Indonesian yeah we
will translate it to English for
Professor R oh yeah yeah that's good
sorry about this technique glitch it's
okay it happens all the
time it work last three classes it
worked I don't know what happened
today yeah this is good so this this
slide I was just mentioning about the
comparing growing plants and then
getting your
SNR using the microbial route is nine
times more efficient okay just to show
you you know if know when you want to
grow plants and you're going to have
this inputs and all that but you don't
have that in using microbes okay okay
next
one uh so the concept is simple you get
the ligning when you do your biomass and
the liant is mostly phenol and this
organism can use phenol as carbon source
to grow and then and and when you um
grow this and they're going to you know
with high amount of carbon in during
when you have high carbon it's going to
convert them into this microbial lipid
and then the lipids can be easily
removed and you get biodiesel okay next
slide uh so we started out just to show
the concept with the glucose so we
didn't use the ligant okay so this this
produce the pigment and just to show how
much biodiesel it can make just using
sugar as a raw material okay next next
one
um so we did the analysis using um you
know lipid extraction BL and dryer
method and freeze dry pallet to look for
biomass how much biomass is produced
okay next
one next
slide uh if you look at it here you can
see the lipid
production and the glucose consumption
um using different concentration of
glucose 10 gram per liter 20 gram per
liter 40 gram per liter so the more
sugar we had the more liquid production
we had in our system so just to show
this concept work we have the liquid
produced from sugar so now we want to
substitute the sugar with the phenol
from Lin okay next next next slide and
just to show these organisms once we
grow them on sugar and we got this
um the oil droplets and and we can
process them this micro lipid can easily
broken down and can be released so this
is our organisms in
prot okay next
one next
slide can you forward next
slide okay so what is in this lipids um
so we uh we did the analysis and these
are all trious rights and just show
this chromatography here okay next
one um so we had c16
C8 C20 so linolic acid and ptic acid
which is a very good fatty acid
methylester profile and this this is
this is what mostly in your biodiesel
next
one um we compare with the existing
literature and organism we used was
better uh we can do in 3 to five days
compared to others that take longer time
even though our yield was little less
but our time of getting the LI liquid
out is you know shorter okay next
one so with that uh we we're going to
use the the liant from sugar cane so
again to show you how we did the
pre-treatment the same way we did it
with
enzimatic and weak acid 1% okay next
one so when you did that you're getting
a lot of fraction so we get the
cellulose we get the semi hemicellulose
I showed you we using that recombinant
ecoi to completely use these two sugar
now I'm going to show you this lignin
this 21 to 32% lignin that could be
converted to finals and then the phal is
going to be used by the ROC carcus to
make your bio biodel okay next next
one um so we we just use the xylos just
to first we want to see whether this
organism can grow in the sugar that is
produced from this lios cellulosic um
and then we tried final so we used the
glucose and xylos and um for some reason
when we use xylos alone it wouldn't grow
but when you combine xylos and GL
glucose together we saw growth and we
saw consumption of this sugar okay all
right and then they produce lipids when
we use the glucose and xylos and the
lipids were produced in this Roc caucus
okay next
one again what was the lipid we got when
we used the lios soltic sugar we again
we got ptic and we got OIC acid which
are the good Fame profile in this
bacteria okay next
one and just to show you scaled up a
little bit um just to show um the
organism also grew on this um Inhibitors
that when you do the acid treatment you
get some Inhibitors um these Inhibitors
had no effect on this bacteria they grow
on this Inhibitors as well as carbon
Source okay next
one um just to show the growth on
different um chemical that come out of
this lios cellulosic material we have
acidic acid fural acidic acid fol and we
saw the biomass yield we saw lipid yield
so this is kind of growing on all the
carbon that we be used in this process
okay next
one um again it produced um um the fame
profile we got p olic acid okay
depending on what source you used okay
glucose or other thing all right next
one and now we going to concentrate on
this phenolic part okay next
one so phol you know is common compound
natural compound all the liines are made
up of phenol okay just to show you where
the phenols are okay next
one uh so we did the solid phase
extraction to show what method we used
um to separate the um diesel okay next
one um just to show you the finol result
comparing with phol and glucose and
phenol it grew on phenol and when we add
a little bit of glucose it grew better
with glucose but it also grow with finol
okay next
one um and again lipid um um a lipid
production profile uh um you can see the
amount of lipid produced um you can see
glucose phol alone had some problem but
when you combined with little bit of
sugar um you got the growth better okay
the lipid better okay next one and we
got the same uh Fame profile um
depending on what starting material so
there is not a big difference in whether
it is glucose or phenol or glucose
phenol combination
we produced same Fame there was no
change in P acid Mealer okay next
one and then this is I don't know we
want to have to spend time in this one
we did some proteomics to see which
genes are turned on and which genes are
up regulated and down regulated more
basic research so we can later on
manipulate this organism to increase our
yield kind of go through some
biochemical uh process okay next step
next
slide uh so if you look at this organism
the lipid metabolism goes through this
bed oxidation pathway so two carbon at a
time is chopped and convert to acetel co
and acetal Co can go in you know both
biosynthetic ra and also degradation ra
so so this is our Central thing the
organism use the bad oxidation Pathways
okay next next slide
uh just to show you where these
processes are so we have um this
um use of this biosynthetic route where
this biodiesel is synthesized your
starting material is your acetel Co all
right as Co and then couple of genes are
turned on depending on what is
accumulating in the flask I'm going to
show you which Gene turned on depending
on whether it's phenol or glucose okay
next next slide
um just to show you when you have
glucose um these are the um enzymes that
is produced and the enzymes rooll okay
um so we have Biotin carox was high in
the bacteria citrate synthes was high
malic protein and Adin chinase and what
these enzyme does what are the role they
have various role yeah fatty acid
synthes
Central metabolism and energy balance
reaction okay next
one and and and just to show you um some
more putative enzymes I have um for
degradation purpose when you have Phile
degradation when you have phol all these
enzymes are turned on because you need
to have kol 2 three dioxygenase and um
you need to have Biotin carboxilate and
all this so when you have final as
starting material final has to be broken
down so we got these genes turned on 31
look at the the fold increase and he got
this enzyme expressed to break the final
down okay next
one H just to show you what is going on
the the final from the biomass is has to
broken down and get the carbon out so is
converted to cacol and these are the
pathway but the the end product is your
acetel Co the acetel can be you know
forward into your synthetic pathway or
also degradative pathway you can use it
for energy for the bacteria to grow or
when this accumulates you can produce
your microbial lipids okay through fatty
acid
metabolism so this just to show you
that's the various level we use phenol
we show the expression of the genes just
a little more basic and how much how
many fold these genes are upregulated
how much for down down regulated
depending on whether you use glucose or
whether you use
SP next
one so um so once you get your acet Co
and it's a synthetic pathway so we get
this liquid buildup takes place and
bacteria put this carbon to together and
make your triglycerol okay so this is a
pathway commonly used using better keto
adipa Pathways okay next
one so when the when this pathway is
produced we want to find out what um
genes are up regulated so you need to
degrade the phenol and then once your
phenol is degraded you got this fatty
acid metabolism you got this three betal
coenzyme epimerase is increase up
regulated 31 time 31 fold um when you
have you now and and this is what um you
know increase and starting your Patty
acid synthesis uh process
okay just to show you which genes are up
regulated and down regulat okay so just
to just to show you the holistic view so
we have this Lin uh when you break it
down you get variety of finic compound
and this variety of finic compound when
you use it in this bacteria they go
through the pathway we already know
breaking down phenol and then
synthesizing from acetel
coic pathway and P oxidation pathway
next next
slide so we then we used some of those
model compound to show how much um um uh
microb lipids we can produce so we use
this liin model compound uh you know
Comal alcohol Coral alcohol alcohol in
our system okay I'm going to show you a
few more result next
slide um this also vanic acid will use
for hyro benzoic acid okay next next
slide and just the result so if you
compare glucose with all this uh
phenolic compound
you can see the growth um depending on
what finol compounds the organism is
using um almost all of those phol
compounds are used by this organism to
make your biomass and also produce your
lipid so we were really surprised
whatever we throw at this bacteria it
was able to use some easily switch their
genes on and off depending on what
starting material
they're using okay next
one and just to show you some more
result and just show you we have the
vanic acid and alcohol and different
phenolic compounds you see the growth
and you see the person lipid
production next
one um and then we have more phenolic
model compound just to show the use of
this compound I'm sorry about all this
are messed up I don't have the Legends
are all all over the place um and then
you have the person liquid U production
using these various phenolic compound
next
one so just to show you from just one
biomass uh we were able to show use of
the pentos sugar exoic sugar using recom
and eoli and the ligning that end up um
you most of the time the ligin is a
waste um now people are using Coen uh to
make electricities and we thought we
could use this microbi lipids and we
just showed in the lab scale so we a
little bit of scaled up version using
glucose and and we need to you know make
this a really viable process so you can
use every bit of biomass so nothing is
going to waste just to show the
sustainability concept so Lin is also
converted to this microbal lipid which
is you know basically a Fame FAS
methylester and that could be used as a
biodel okay and next next slide this is
futuristic if the because of this
petroleum price the diesel and um um
price is not good so you could use this
organism to use variety of you know comp
carites compound for you know cosmetic
industry um so that's also possibility
okay next next slide I um so just to
show you future work we have planned on
it we're looking for funding so
obviously we are writing grants and to
look at what we could use you know from
this um penal penal come out of this um
lus waste okay and just next two slides
are acknowledgement summary and
acknowledgement so the the ethanol
project we showed a combination of U the
fungus as a biological free treatment so
you can reduce your acid from 3% to 1%
that's going to be a big saving for
industry okay next
one uh this is just to shows fundings
for various and people did the work and
Renee did
the fungal work he initiated the work we
published couple of papers and then
couple of my students went with you know
the same fungus she brought um so very
very um thankful to Renee when she
visited my lab okay I think I'll stop
here I'm sorry about the whole mess
slide messed up
okay well thank you Professor buti for
very interesting in talk we already uh
get about eight questions so far okay so
there's there's more coming I believe
and Okay g would you like me to show or
can you show the SLO
slide I can wait a
[Music]
minut okay here is the question mhm the
first coming
from bamin from mulu and he asking about
how about uh maybe the bio Refinery of
uh palm oil
shell so the palm oil yes the palm oil
industry will produce a shell and also a
fiber and also empty fruit Bunch but
empty fruit BN is mostly used so far and
he's talking about
shell I think if you if you know the
biomask mostly composition is almost
similar I I I I now worked with shell
but uh if you have same ligin um
cellulose hemicellulose we could use
that all you have to do is get the raw
material out the sugar out and the and
the LI phenol out from liin and so um so
so it could be a good research project
you guys have to you know find out the
best way to get your sugar and the
phenol out and so you could holistically
use those sugar for whatever uh product
you want to make not only ethanol but
also you know Fine Chemicals with the
sugar and then of course phenol could be
used in the micro liid process the way I
showed you yeah Rus is the common one
organism that you could use yeah
okay the next question is uh I hope it
answer the question Mr bamin or
otherwise you can rewrite the
question uh next is from
iura and she's questioning about what
are the reason of the low yield of
biofuel production especially from
biomass product so maybe biomass
waste how to obtain high yield so it can
compete with the conventional fuel
um as I said uh the the the the process
itself is um most of them are the
pre-treatment and enzimatic hydrolysis
Stu and the price is coming down so they
now it is commercially viable in this
country we they have already operated
several commercial plant um the
processing of this raw material is the
cost is the issue so as I they said at
the beginning of my lecture the
processing cost is um you know coming
down because of the research a lot of
people are doing research to cut down
the cost um so your question is low
yield um it's not the case anymore it
started out with low yield but now it's
commercialized the ltic biomass you can
make it at Industrial Level so at least
in us we are successful and then also
Brazil also doing this yeah yeah
so the main thing is cost the cost is
coming down as the processing cost um
you know go down the the overall cost
will come down as they showed you in the
model they're predicting to get to 60
cents per gallon that's know that's the
very optimistic model they have
so so technically you can make a yield
is not issue anymore so
okay so the the the the company that you
show uh still operational they they
actually
already compete and increase the
decreasing the production cost yeah
that's right um but when they set up
they initially they got subsidies um and
the subsidies were taken away by the
Trump Administration they don't give any
more subsidies um that's why some of the
company collapsed that the couple of
companies still operational because they
that their C production cost is low
because they kind
of have their own inhouse technology
they're not telling other people how
they got production cost low so as I
said the bioprocessing cost is coming
down every
year yes so can survive without subsidy
that's very
good are still standing couple of them
are still running so we are either
either they are l are they still
successfully I don't know they still
operating so yeah yeah well that's
positive yeah the next question is from
Gustin what about the development of
fermentation technology with synthetic
gas substrate to produce ethanol in
us um that's for some reason it's not a
commercial operation everything is said
probably I say pilot scale I I'm not
sure what why I'm not involved in S gas
research but where when I do some
literature search when I look at people
what they're doing I did not see any big
commercial operation in S gas in us
and I I really don't know why that it is
because I I'm not that's not my area of
research but uh I don't see any big
commercial operation in using sin gas
for ethanol production uh maybe maybe
it's not commercially um you know viable
process but ethanol maybe for some other
um you know product you could use that
so when they work out the cost of
getting sin gas to ethanol they may not
compete with the way the other people
are doing it so that's the best answer I
can come up with because I don't work on
sin gas yeah yeah okay thank you the
next question is from IU fioni from
andalas University would you please tell
more about the a effects should it be
near the farm or processing unit and how
do a effect approach Farmer for for it
and is it better for the mix
pre-treatment H is it better than the
mix
pre-treatment yeah the F FX is really
now commercialized and it's really one
of the best pre-treatment in the US
and so the if you look at that one slide
at the Michigan State University
advocating is you you can do this
Cooperative small operation based on how
many farmers are in a local so you set
up a pre-treatment plant there and
produce your sugar and ship the sugar to
the refiner so the concept is breaking
this down into smaller pre-treatment
unit uh say maybe it um depending on the
how many farms are located so you could
put one unit in there and use the FX
process so FX process is safe you can
put near the farm it's not a problem the
ammonia is recycle it's not a big issue
about waste and getting into the farm
and so that's approach um most of the
Midwestern states are doing and is
commercially right now working so but in
the future that's what they're
predicting you put this pre-treatment
plan in a Cooperative scale get few
Farmers signed up and get your biomass
transported to one area and then you do
this pre-treatment get the sugar um and
then you trans to refin so yeah that's
that's what the predict so the
prediction is uh it's uh continuing the
question so the the the prediction is
you will have distributed pre-treatment
and hydrolysis process yeah while you
ship the hydrolysed or sugar reach
hydroly into more centralized for
ethanol production or bio refinary plant
that's right because the main it solves
main problem of Transportation of
biomass into the into the factory so you
don't want it you know
spend energy to transport into you know
bigger fact so you do that in local and
then you ship the processed biomass yeah
that's that's what they're advocating
currently yeah so kind of small scale
pre-treatment process yeah true that's
why they call it
Cooperative Farmers Cooperative
pre-treatment um operations so uh so
farmers had to get together and put
their money in set up this so and then
they sell this so once you pre-re your
biomass then your pre-treated uh
material is you know more expensive than
the biomass itself
yeah yeah although we dealing here we'll
be dealing here with a sugar problem if
it is easily degraded or something we
need to have
concentrated yeah you're right you're
right
yeah yeah okay we go to the next
question from uh Maya
about free treatment using microb when
we should choose already known bacteria
or Fung fungal strain compared to local
organism in the substrate that will be
treated um as I said before a lot of
people are trying to find new organisms
for for new novel enzymes they're
looking in different insect guts and
different places um it depends um
so there are already uh well um
researched uh organism there that can do
your pre-treatment like I said that
white rod and brown Rod that re sugari
suggested to us that work for us and uh
um so it depends you can use the you
know already reported organisms for your
research or you can go and find even
better one and you had to do lot of
research you need to do some find the
organisms that have better enzyme
production enzyme efficiencies so people
are looking into variety of insect
variety of
different
microorganism yeah but this is available
commercially
already the the one we saw we did the
pilot sale and then last four years This
research shut
down Trump came and shut down everything
off so funding was cut for bofs in in
the country yeah well let's hope
not even for
research not even for research all the
research funded project were taken away
that was bad so so yeah everything is
kind of upside down right
now yeah so This research I
did six seven years ago during Obama
administration yeah not recently this is
done before Trump because of funding is
a problem yeah
yeah okay the next one is from IU maana
how to maintain the inhibition
possibility during fermentation due to
the presence of organic acid as toxic
compound from some fermenting agents for
some fermenting
agents yeah
inhibition compound depending on your
pre- treatment so ax they don't have an
inhibitory but ASD Tre treatment we do
get peral androxy meal acetic acid some
of those could be inhibitory so that's a
touchy one so that's why we use this the
rocus so rocus used all this chemical
that come out of the pre treatment we
didn't have any problem but in our the
first experiment we did with the
eoli um we we did have uh in our pilot
scale that's that's one of the reason
our yield went down and because of this
inhibitory compound so we we still have
that problem to solve so we I I agree
with the question yes it is a problem so
yeah we need to find some way to get the
inhibitor out so yeah so we need
detoxification step yes for that exactly
detoxification steps you need to involve
but in the small scale it work but when
you scale up uh it's we got this problem
yeah oh okay okay only on scale up yeah
ferment we didn't have any problem we we
produced
ethanol theodical yield from you know
sugar but when you scaled up 50%
reduction and we found out the the
mainly the inhibitor is affecting
that well very interesting the next from
uh IU a
SATA how can we
use the enzyme derived from thermites
from hydrolyzing lelic
Material which one better compared to
fungi I think the the last one has
already been answered but the first one
how can we use the enzyme derived from
thermite yeah people people are working
on that um so if you look at um thermite
it it has the same microbiome it has
protozoa it has
bacteria most of the time um protozoa
take out the ligin and get
the cellular semicell released and
variety of bacteria then work on it so
the problem with termite is it's not one
organism that doing the job it's like a
lot of different organism doing the job
so you need to do a lot of basic
research so you need to find out which
organism is doing doing what Stu and
what genes are involved so it's a little
more complicated uh a lot of people are
working on that termite is a good source
for fun enzyme that can you know work
better than what we have currently um
but it's all basic research nothing is
you know in in so far applied aspect so
far so because of this complexity of
organism in ter so a lot of organisms in
there so
yeah so maybe it's for IU Aina you can
continue the result this result doing
research good area to do the research
you're right
yeah okay the next one from
uhi is there a specific rational of
using microbial production of fatty acid
derivate from lnos solic sugar in set of
lipid ex existing from waste so yeah
yeah we we went with microbial lipid as
a ideal way to go go because this
particular organism um was using every
all the chemical that come out of the
lell material but yeah you could use
other
other way to deal with this P acid
derivatives yes um
um I mean I didn't personally work on
but there are people looking at
different uh way to get this um microb
lipids and fatty acid yeah but we only
concentrate on the same fatty acid me in
our research
yeah okay so basically it's possible
yeah it it is possible but we we didn't
go on on that route we because of the
bacteria we had could use everything
convert them to oil why not we use this
as a liquid and and biodiesel get your
you know aerification process and get
your biod so that's our rational for
using our research yeah yes and this is
my question I'm sorry I'm very curious
It's the name is r a cus is it so it
it's supposed to be a cus isn't
it it is it is not a cck it's a misn
[Music]
yeah it's a rod shape it's a gr
negative organism
yeah yeah R shape yeah oh okay okay so
it's it is not cus yeah it's a Long Rod
shape yeah oh okay let me continue a bit
with the question
uh was it uh in your research you show
that you are using uh Theus is consuming
panel yeah so it is the derivative Lin
it's not the Lin itself it is yeah we
used all the different
phol compound comes out of Lig Li is a
polyphenol you have lot of different
phenol comes out Cal alcohol singal
alcohol all those are all component of L
so we use that but the material came
from um the liin all those fenal came
from Li yeah that is uh and Professor
Chanda question is actually in the same
line with that have you tried to uh use
The Real L from biomass to produce
microbial lipids yeah yeah exactly he
started out with separation of different
phol from L and then we put the whole
polyol and and it did work yeah all the
just the ligning we didn't even process
it so after we treat it whatever Li came
we put it in the organisms
and It produced lipid but the yield was
less because of the there's a lot of
different components still in there so
but when we separate the final from
ligin the yield was better but when we
put the whole ligin yield was less but
it did produce microb liid yes so you
basically you don't need any pre
treatment in using that uh yeah you get
your yeah you get the sugar out and
whatever Li left you can use this
organism to make your um microbial
lipids
yeah okay and the next question from
Alia polyphenol from Lin is
uh sorry polyphenol from Lin is uh what
it hydroly simultaneously by bacteria
or uh it does it needs to have a
separate process to form the fennel to
be able to be consumed by the
microorganism so yeah during the during
the pre-treatment process itself because
we use this
biological um treatment the ligning
already is broken down a little bit so
so we have the holistic line and then we
have the different component of Li is
liberated because of the fungi we used
okay because the fungal enzyme involved
so in our case we had lot of pool and we
also had individual phenol come out of
the so uh to answer your
question uh so during pre-treatment
process you could liberate some phenol
out of the LI name and that could be
used but if you want to get all the
phenol separated you have to do
something free treatment yes here some
kind of free
treatment okay and next from
anomos what cataly is used in the trans
aerification process to get the maximum
yield K uh calcium hydroxide or NRI
sodium hydroxide oh this is I think it's
not really relevant
yeah yeah we we I mean we did a
certification to show um the different f
and what we got we use sodium hydroxide
in our in our experiment so I think both
both can be used potassium also can be
used but uh I don't I don't see any big
difference between you know K and we use
sodium okay the next from Mr Tony H Tomo
what cataly is used the
transesterification oh this is the same
same question yeah same question I'm
sorry and the next one is on an
industrial scale to get bioanal fuel
grade what unit is usually used is it
molecular shft or distillation using and
triner and if we are using the sift what
is the time life uh what is the
lifespan um in the commercial operation
I I'm not sure but I think they're using
the uh um I think see I think I'm I'm
not sure about the lifespan but uh
couple of plant I was it that they use a
molecular SE um I don't know how long it
last I'm not sure
yeah so the the plant I visited they use
the gr yeah this is uh probably most
more to be the down uh down processing
yeah uh yeah and not not really the
bioprocess aspect of the in
my but I'm not sure how how how how
in know lifespan how often they have to
you know change the SE yeah
yeah the next one oh we still have
plenty next one from saskia about the
pre-treatment process uh pre-treatment
of Lin to sugar is it more profitable to
use the microbial process compared to
the chemical and which do which company
which which one do you does the company
usually
prefer um I mean the
before um you can use um VAR treatment
to to break up your biomass to get your
cellul semicell lignin but lignin is
basically Phile ligin there is no sugar
but um the the pre-treatment as I said
depending on the company like some most
of them are using a effect but I used in
my research weak acid uh spre treatment
combined with the fungus so um so your
question is which is profitable it's
depending on and the company that what
the pre-treatment they they advocate so
if you look at some of the company I
showed you in my earlier presentation a
lot of people using FX and we also have
acid pre-treatment is very popular
yeah ionic liquid is still in research
scale I never saw any big commercial
operate okay next one or is there any
microb that can pre-treat and also
ferment the sugar into ethanol
oil he's asking about this super box
yeah yeah that is that's the next step
that's people are already doing that's
got Consolidated bioprocessing so you
but I don't think any organism that
naturally does that from biomass to
ethanol but you do genetic engineering
people already doing that they put your
pretreatment enzyme gene into the
organism you put the pentos and and
hexos sugar fermentation Gene in the one
organism so you can do that EOL can do
that now but um everything is in
probably I would say pilot scale nothing
is commercialized but yeah but again the
cost because once you make make this
genetically engineered organism it's not
stable it can be stable for maybe 10
generation and it will lose some of
those activity so it losses Gene so you
need to constantly reconstruct your
genetically engineer organism for your
process that's going to cost add on cost
to the company so so there's lot of you
know things to be worked out but it it
is theoretically technically it is
possible yes one organism genetically
manipulate put all the genes in one
organism they can take your biomass your
end product is ethal butol whatever you
want your end prod you can you can do
that yeah yes yes it it will be possible
in the future but we have to be really
careful yeah otherwise our forest will
convert it into ethanol
everywhere okay the next one from aunda
okay is there uh any competition issue
between the food sector and energy
sector uh regarding the use of corn
carel for bioethanol in the US yeah um
currently they over produce corn uh we
don't have any problem uh because the
the corn industry is um you know so
matured technology wise so produce
enough corn for food and also for fuel
um so as I said before we in the US they
make 7 billion gallon of ethanol from
corn every year um so far our food price
didn't go up and um food price is very
stable uh they produce enough corn to
make both Fuel and food it's not an
issue in us at least but but as a
population goes up in probably you'll be
in problem that's why they advocate lell
in the next one how much the price of
crude oil when biofuel more economical
than gasoli and when biofuel will be
more economical than gasoline or oil
from the petroleum and what is
equivalent ethanal price versus uh crud
oil what is your
estimation yeah if you look at one the
figure I showed you um that has this the
the the dollar per G gasoline I mean the
oil price anywhere from $15 barrel of
oil to $60 that was a big fluctuation
but the ethanol can be competitive if
the oil price is uh anywhere from 45 to
$50 per barrel of crude oil so in that
price range ethanol will be highly
competitive
if the oil is you know less than
$40 ethanol cannot compete with that so
so that's if you look at that figure we
show you the processing cost and what is
the price of the um oil that could be
competitive for ethanol so I would say
anywhere from $40 to $50 price range
ethanol could be competitive
yes all right the next question is how
does the chemical process compared to
produce banol from corn and sugar cane
as a feet
stock I I never worked with IM mean
pre-treatment or thermochemical rout
which this question is for
thermochemical I I don't this is
pre-treatment chemical process or
thermochemical
R maybe the pre-treatment process yeah
I think the sugar if you the corn and
sugar cane um if you start as a raw
material that will be cheaper to make
ethanol compared to again because of the
pre-treatment you need to get the sugar
out of your biomass that is one of those
expensive stuff whereas sugar can you're
getting a sugar come out of sugar cane
in corn you get starch and amas is so
cheap the enzyme you get you know a
penny they give a gallon of am so it's
so cheap um so we the L cellulosic
pre-treatment is more expensive than if
you start your raw material either corn
or sugar can yeah as a feed
stock okay the last question the cat the
problem with corn and sugar can you had
to grow corn you had to grow sugar cane
but you're putting
investment to grow them you know you to
take that into
account so whereas in dellic you're
using the waste coming from agriculture
so you get your food you get your waste
and that waste is what you're trying to
make e yeah the residue yeah yes that is
the second generation yeah the differ
between Second Generation and the first
generation the last question is from
iani
it's not appearing in the
SLO B do you want to ask yourself or
should I ask it okay I will read the
question do you see any change for the B
beuel research and Industry uh is there
any chance that this this topics and
this industry will rise again since uh
you will have a new president
soon we are happy
election is over the new president is uh
if you if you look at his uh election
promises he on green green New Deal so
so he wanted to use you know biofuel
solar energy wind energy so we are all
very hopeful um there will be more
funding and be you know better energy
production so it will be more diverse uh
Diversified energy portfolio compared to
Trump 100% oil he he doesn't want to do
anything else but now we are hopeful
that new government will uh at least he
promised Biden when he when he ran for
election he's going to use all other
resources not not petrolum so he's going
to cut the subsidy down to petroleum
industry so and going to put more
subsidy to other energy sector so we'll
see what happens yes we'll see
just hope yeah yeah for the rise of the
bio energy again in the US right that's
right it's a cyclical thing who is in
the office and in in politics is a big
thing yeah you're
right all right okay the time is I think
very limiting it's already one minute
toight Prof do you want to have
something to say before we close the
meeting yeah just to say something
because uh did this one is the the end
of our lecture lecture from Raj this
semester for want to say something
regarding the en biotechnology or
bioprocessing and just please R okay
that's that's good I was very happy to
be part of your uh this lecture series
and uh we we covered a little bit of but
remediation Waste Water treatment and um
you know bioprocessing so thanks for the
opportunity hopefully hopefully some of
those materials useful to the students
so
thanks yeah all right good luck to the
students to see you again uh next year
with the other topics uh G could you
take the the picture of us
okay wait I will stop the streaming
first in the
YouTube so the student could
your
okay
okay ahe uh