Kind: captions
Language: en
We now have the ability to edit genes.
>> Can you engineer speech into species or
vocal learning into species?
>> This is exactly what we're trying.
>> Yes. So trying it for several reasons. I
mean, of course, there's the cool
factor. Can you can you ap
Yeah.
>> Yeah. I'm not sure if that'll happen in
my lifetime, but
>> theoretically possible.
>> Yeah,
>> it's theoretically possible. Yes.
>> Right. Right. Um and so even even a
number of years ago when we started
coming up with hypotheses about how
could song pathways and song birds in
human speech areas uh convergently
evolve to function in a similar way with
a similar set of genetic changes and
what are the function of these genes in
vocal learning.
>> So um we would love to genetically
modify these genes in a human and test
what they do.
>> Yeah. that but that's that's tricky and
unethical to certain degrees.
>> Yeah.
>> Um so and we would love to do it in a
songird as well but the genetic tools to
manipulate genes in song birds is not as
advanced as we can do in mice.
>> I see. And so what we're trying to do
and what we are doing is taking a gene
variance that we find in humans that is
either unique to humans or unique to
vocal learning species and gene editing
them into the mouse genome. What are
we're looking for? We're looking for uh
changes in the vocalizations in two
characteristics.
>> Okay. Um, our words are made up of
phonms. A, a, o, u, and we sequence
those phonms together to make words.
>> And then we sequence those words
together to make sentences.
>> Right?
>> We call those sequences and the rules in
which they're based syntax.
>> Got it?
>> Okay. Well, guess what? These mice and
other species, they have individual
phonms or syllables is another name
>> uh that we call them. And what is
learned is the sequences.
>> Okay. And you can change around the
sequences. Sometimes those sequences are
innate.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh and us, we can actually have learned
sequences of sounds to make words and
make sentences.
>> Right.
>> And so what we're looking for is changes
to those sequences
>> as well as to the individual structure
of the phonms.
>> I see. So let me ask you a question
about the sequences right quick. So if
there's a particular mouse that makes
vocalizations and you record that, is it
the case that you find repetitions of
the same sequence?
>> Yes.
>> Oh,
>> yeah. Yeah. There. And they're
repetitions of the same sequences that
are innate.
>> So every other mouse will share those.
>> Every other mouse will share them.
>> Oh.
>> And what we're trying to do is to see if
we can get the mouse to learn new
sequences or change the acoustic
structure of each syllable within the
sequence. So is it is it incredibly
subtle where it's not obvious to the ear
you have to do some take the waveform of
the recording and
>> the changes we're seeing thus far like
we're changing one gene at a time it's
it's more in the subtle side
>> but in the direction one would predict
>> so like uh we recently published on a
working with Bob Darnell at Rockefeller
recently published on a study where a
nova one gene it's a what's it's a gene
that controls splicing
of cutting up RNA molecules and reputing
them back together. Um, there's a human
variant that you don't even find in
Neanderthal and we put this human
variant in the mouse genome and these
mice start producing more complex
syllables.
>> Oh, interesting. Interesting.
>> Another gene called plexen
A1. It's a gene that controls
connectivity in the brain. uh and we we
see
>> connectivity between neurons
>> between neurons and this gene actually
is turned down in the human speech motor
cortex.
>> All right? It's not one that's turned
up.
>> It's turned down and when we when it
gets turned down in a in a
counterintuitive fashion,
it allows certain connections to form
from the speech brain areas to the areas
that control the vocal organ. Uh so we
we call it a loss of function of the
gene causes a gain of function in the
behavior.
>> Wow.
>> All right. It allows a certain
connection to form. We can see this
connection form in mice.
>> Yeah.
>> And these mice too are producing more
complex sequences of vocalizations.
>> Wow. Wow.
>> We have not yet seen or thoroughly
tested can these mice imitate sounds.
That's our next step. But I do think
we're going to have to manipulate
multiple genes to get imitation.
>> Wow.
>> But that's also theoretically possible.
>> Geez. So do you have models that
basically you can uh play with the
various genes and predict the behavioral
output?
>> Yeah, we have computer algorithms that
we developed that look at the regulation
of these several hundred genes. If we
were to tweak one in one direction to or
tweak it in another direction, we can
make predictions. Well, this takes us to
a obvious direction. Are we moving
toward a future where we have talking
pets
is that
>> Yeah. Someone asked me about that
recently. Another scientist.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> You know, thinking about can we actually
do that? Yeah.
>> Right. Yes.
>> Eventually, not today. But
>> yeah. And do people want to know what
their pets are thinking?
>> Oh, yeah. You see, I I do think I do
think once you have the ability to
imitate sounds,
>> right,
>> you have this inner speech
>> in your brain,
>> right?
>> And I I believe that the inner speech
brain circuit
um is the same that's being used to
produce the sounds.
>> Uh so
and and that is separate from the
auditory circuit that's hearing that
speech.
>> All right. So let me let me I got to
throw this in. You said you believe. So,
does that mean that no one has stuck a
brain in a scanner and saw what lights
up when you're
>> No, that talking to yourself that means
maybe it's my cautious scientific self
is that this there's debate.
>> Yeah, I see.
>> If your consciousness, your inner speech
brain areas are um the same as what's
used to speak the sounds.
>> Is the debate based on data?
>> Yeah, debates based on data. Okay. And I
strongly favor, you know, the the human
fMRI studies
>> that show that the brain regions that
control speech production is the same
brain regions that is being lit up when
you're actually thinking in speech.
>> Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And so so you asked about our pet
animals, right?
>> Right. Yeah.
>> Um the pet animals have the brain areas
that hear speech but not produce them.
>> Oh, that's right. So my I I do think if
we can get our pet animals to to speak
through genetic manipulations,
>> right?
>> Uh that will both allow them to, you
know, to say what they've been thinking
in the hearing pathway, right?
>> You know, um
>> but it'll even give them a great greater
ability now to have inner speech.
>> Oh, interesting.
>> And what we call conscious speaking.
what your So, if you want to know what
your pets are thinking, by giving this
them this ability, you're giving them
new thoughts.
>> That's right.