Kind: captions
Language: en
meaning philosophy there's this
experience machine thought experiment
have you come across this so Robert
Nozick had this thought experiment where
you imagine some crazy super-duper
neuroscientist of the future have
created a machine that could give you
any experience you want if you step in
there and for the rest of your life you
can kind of pre-programmed it in
different ways so you're you know
fondest dreams could come true you could
whatever you dream you want to be a
great artist a great lover like have a
wonderful life all of these things mmm
if you step into the experience machine
will be your experiences constantly
happy and but we kind of disconnected
from the rest of reality and it would
float there in the tank and the Gnostic
thought that most people would choose
not to enter the experience machine I
mean many might want to go there for a
holiday but they wouldn't want to check
out of existence permanently and so he
thought that was an argument against
certain views of value according to what
we what we value is a function of what
we experience and because in the
experience machine you could have any
experience you want and yet many people
would think that would not be much value
so therefore what we value depends on
other things than what we experience so
ok can you can you take that argument
further what about the fact that maybe
what we values the up and down of life
so you could have up and downs in the
experience machine right but what can't
you have in the experience machine well
I mean that then becomes an interesting
question to explore but for example real
connection with other people if the
experience machine is the solar machine
where it's only you like that's
something you wouldn't have that you
would have this objective experience
that would be like fake people yeah but
when if you gave somebody flowers that
wouldn't be anybody they were actually
got happy it would just be a little
simulation of somebody smiling but the
simulation would not be the kind of
simulation I'm talking about in the
simulation argument where the simulated
creatures
it would just be a kind of smiley face
that would look perfectly real to you
so we're now drawing a distinction
between appear to be perfectly real and
actually being real yeah so that could
be one thing I mean like a big impact on
history maybe it's also something you
won't have if you check into this
experience machine so some people might
actually feel the life I want to have
for me is one where I have a big
positive impact on history unfolds so
let's see if you could kind of explore
these different possible explanations
for why this you wouldn't want to go
into the experience machine if that's if
that's what you feel and what one
interesting observation regarding this
Nozick thought experiment and the
conclusions he wanted to draw from it is
how much is a kind of a status quo
effect so a lot of people might not want
to get this on current reality to plug
in to this dream machine but if they
instead we're told well what you've
experienced up to this point was a dream
now do you want to disconnect from this
and enter the real world when you have
no idea maybe what the real world is or
maybe you could say well you're actually
a farmer in Peru growing you know
peanuts and you could live for the rest
of your life in this what would you want
to consider continue your your your
dream life as Alex Friedman going around
the world making podcasts and doing
research so if the status quo was that
the that they were actually in the
experience machine howling a lot of
people might prefer to live the life
that they are familiar with rather than
sort of bail out into something the
change itself the leap yeah it might not
be so much the the reality itself that
we're after but it's more that we are
maybe involved in certain projects and
relationships and we have you know a
self-identity and these things that's
our values are kind of connected with
carrying that forward and then whether
it's inside a tank or outside a tank in
Peru or whether inside a computer
outside a computer that's kind of less
important to what what we ultimately
care about yeah but still so just a
linger on it it is interesting I find
maybe people are different but I find
myself quite willing to take the leap to
the farmer in Peru especially as the
virtual reality system become more
realistic
I find that possibility and I think more
people would take that leap but so in
this in this thought experiment just to
make sure we are understand so in this
case that the farmer in Peru would not
be a virtual reality that would be the
real the real there is a real that your
life like before this whole experience
machine started well I kind of assumed
from that description you're being very
specific but that kind of idea just like
washes away the concept of what's real I
mean I'm still a little hesitant about
your kind of distinction between real
and illusion because when you can have
an illusion that feels I mean that looks
real any what I I don't know how you can
definitively say something is real or
not like what's what's a good way to
prove that something is real in that
context well so I guess in this case
it's more addition in one case you're
floating in a tank with these wires by
the super-duper neuroscientists plugging
into your head giving you likes
Friedmann experiences in the other
you're actually tilling the soil in peru
growing peanuts and then those peanuts
are being eaten by other people all
around the world who buy the export and
this that's two different possible
situations in in the one and the same
real world that that you could choose to
occupy but just to be clear when you're
in a vet with wires and the
neuroscientists you can still go farming
in Peru right mmm well you could you
could if you wanted to you could have
the experience of farming in Peru but
what that wouldn't actually be any
peanuts grown
well but what makes a peanut so so
peanut could be grown and you could feed
things with that peanut and why can't
all of that be done in a simulation
I hope first of all that they actually
have peanut farms in Peru I guess we'll
get a lot of comments otherwise angry I
was wavy up to the point you should know
you can't realize in that climate now I
mean I I think I mean I I in the
simulation I think there is a sense the
important sense in which it should all
be real nevertheless there is a
distinction between inside the
simulation and outside the simulation or
in the case of no.6 thought experiment
whether you're in the VAT or outside the
VAT and some of those differences may or
may not be important I mean that that
comes down to your values and
preferences so if they if the experience
machine only gives you the experience of
growing peanuts but you're the only one
in in the experience machines there's
other you can within the experience
machine others can plug in well they're
versions of the experience machine so in
fact you might want to have
distinguished thought experiments
different versions of it so in like in
the original thought experiment maybe
it's only you right just you so and you
think I wouldn't want to go in there
well that tells you something
interesting about what you value in what
you care about then you could say well
what if you add the fact that there
would be other people in there and you
would interact with them well it starts
to make it more attractive right then
you can add in well what if you could
also have important long-term effects on
human history in the world and you could
actually do something useful even though
you were in there that makes it maybe
even more attractive like you could
actually have a life that had a purpose
and consequences and so as you sort of
add more into it it becomes more similar
to the the baseline reality that that
you were comparing it to yeah but I just
think inside the experience machine and
without taking those steps you just
mentioned you you
you still have an impact on long-term
history of the creatures that live
inside that of the quote unquote fake
creatures that live inside that
experience machine and that like at a
certain point you know if there's a
person waiting for you inside that
experience machine maybe your newly
found wife and she dies she has fear she
has hopes and she exists in that machine
when you plug out when you unplug
yourself and plug back in she's still
there going on about her life oh well in
that case yeah she starts to have more
of an independent existence independent
existence but it depends I think on how
she's implemented in the experience
machine take one the mid case where all
she is is a static picture on the wall
of photograph right so you think well I
can look at her right but that's it
there's no that then you think well it
doesn't really matter much what happens
to that and any more than a normal
photograph so if you tear it up right it
means you can't see it anymore but you
haven't harmed the person whose picture
you tore up so who am but but if she's
actually implemented say at a neural
level of details so that she's a fully
realized digital mind with the same
behavioral repertoire as you have then
very plausibly she would be a conscious
person like you are and then you would
what you do in in this experience
machine would have real consequences for
how this other mind felt so you have to
like specify which of these experience
machines you're talking about I think
it's not entirely obvious that it will
be possible to have an experience
machine that gave you a normal set of
human experiences which include
experiences of interacting with other
people without that also generating
consciousnesses corresponding to those
other people that is if you create
another entity that you perceive and
interact with that to you looks entirely
realistic not just when you say hello
they say hello back but you have a rich
interaction many days deep conversations
it might be that the only plausible way
of implementing that would be one that
also has a side effect instantiated this
other person in enough detail that you
would have a second consciousness there
I think that's to some extent an open
question so you don't think it's
possible to fake consciousness and fake
well it might be I mean I think you can
certainly fake if you have a very
limited interaction with somebody you
could certainly fake that that is if all
you have to go on is somebody said hello
to you that's not enough for you to tell
whether that was a real person there or
a pre-recorded message or you know like
a very superficial simulation that has
no conscious Ness because that's
something easy to fake we could already
fake it now you can record a voice
recording and you know but but if you
have a richer set of interactions where
you're allowed to answer ask open-ended
questions and probe from different
angles that couldn't sort of be you
could gift and answer to all of the
possible ways that you could probe it
then it starts to become more plausible
that the only way to realize this thing
in such a way that you would get the
right answer for many which angle you
probe it would be a way of instance
dating it we also instantiated a
conscious mind
you