Kind: captions
Language: en
if Scientology was just
getting auditing
when you wanted
about the subjects you wanted and you
could take it or leave it that would be
fine
it's it's the fact that it's part and
parcel to this entire organization and
this entire experience
that has as a part of that experience
taking everything from you demanding
everything from you controlling who you
can speak with
controlling who you can have
relationships with who you have to erase
from your life this is where and it's
hard to it's hard to place one pinpoint
on this is where Scientology goes wrong
it's really hard to do that because the
good parts of Scientology and the bad
parts of Scientology
are all just Scientology
the following is a conversation with
Aaron Smith 11 a former Scientologist
raised in Scientology and have worked in
an organization full-time for many years
as a staff member and a sea org member
including the job of training
Scientology Auditors today he educates
the public about scientology on his
YouTube channel called growing up in
Scientology
this is Alex Friedman podcast to support
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Aaron Smith Levin
let's do a full overview of Scientology
its ideas how it operates how it wields
its power and influence and let's start
at the very Basics what is Scientology
Scientology is a belief system
created by allren Hubbard
that does fundamentally believe that we
are all Immortal Spiritual Beings
called phasins
that we have
native god-like potential
that there is nothing more powerful in
the universe than a thetan like so
Godlike is you know quite literal here
and that through various
decisions thetans have made they have
fallen away from their native Godlike
power
to uh fallen down to a state where most
theins aren't even aware that they are
thetans aren't even aware that they ever
have lived before or have these powers
and that things are now in a state where
they're trapped in bodies trapped here
on Earth
uh trapped in this prison of a physical
Universe trapped on this prison of a
planet
and that only Scientology can restore
ethane to its native state are these
multiple beings like is there one Satan
inside of me that's trapped in this
prison well the thing would be you
the thing would be me the thetan is you
but um presumably Limited in some
fundamental way so this statement that
is me is is limited so there's like
eight billion Satan's on the planet
there's one primary thing in animating
each body
later in Scientology you learn there's
actually like tens of thousands or
hundreds of thousands of like sick
unconscious half dead faith in stuck to
you that are now an additional cause of
problems for you sure but fundamentally
at the lower levels
the non-confidential levels there's just
one thing in per body
well I mean it's an interesting idea I
just would like to kind of explore
the philosophy of that so there's a
being that's all powerful that's
immortal
and its projectionist manifestation on
this Earth is
fundamentally Limited
and you're trying to uh the process of
Scientology is the process of letting go
of those limitations
you know that's an interesting idea I
mean a lot of religions have this kind
of idea that there's a not just
religions but like we have the capacity
as human beings to do to achieve
greatness in all kinds of ways yeah and
that's the question we have with our
cognitive abilities we start with the
embryo and build up and into this
organism and like this world of
opportunities before us what are we
capable of and the idea that we're
capable of almost anything is a really
powerful one and there's a lot of
religions there's a lot of philosophies
there's a lot of advice self-help that
kind of explores those ideas and so in
it seems like with Scientology this the
application of these religious
philosophy means that there's we're
limited and we have to break through
those limitations and there's a process
to break through those limitations that
would be correct so what can make it
challenging to
adequately and completely describe
Scientology in the beginning is what
scientologists believe actually changes
as they progress further into or further
up in Scientology
so
um the explanation is I've given it is
pretty consistent with what you would
get at the lowest levels right
urethane I'm a thetan everyone's a
thetan
and we have a reactive mind
I'll run Hubbard would say the reactive
mind is a collection of uh these
recordings mental recordings of any
moments of pain and unconsciousness
you've ever had in your life it's like
the subconscious mind
uh it's always recording in moments of
pain and unconsciousness and that these
are called these recordings are Ron
Hubbard called them engrams now when L
Ron Hubbard first wrote Dianetics in
1950 this was before Scientology came
along a couple years later right so in
1950 when he wrote Dianetics
it wasn't a spiritual Endeavor it was
supposed to be a mental health a science
of Mental Health
so
as of that time the earliest engram you
could have was the incident of birth
being born was an engram
and technically in Dianetics they said
you could have prenatal n grams like
when you're still in the womb but there
was no concept of past lives as of 1950
version of Dianetics right
and so the idea there was that
uh the reactive mind is essentially a
stimulus response mechanism
uh created through Evolution millions of
years ago to protect the individual from
things that would harm them in other
words things that would bring about pain
and unconsciousness so you have these
recordings of things that hurt you
created pain and unconsciousness and in
present time these things will react
upon you in a way to cause you to avoid
similar things
reacting upon you in a subconscious
unconscious way so the reactive mind
protects you
from the trauma that is inside your
subconscious mind yes and the idea is
we've now as human beings evolve to a
state where it no longer serves us
beneficially it only serves us
negatively
this was Hubbard's Theory and he says
you can get rid of these engrams by you
know basically recalling them and going
over them again and again using
Dianetics auditing therapy and if you
get back to the moment of birth and
erase the earliest engram all the other
subsequent engrams on the Chain would
vanish oh nice so there's a change
earlier similar earlier similar earlier
similar early similar okay
so that gives you a pretty good
understanding of how elrond Hubbard
thought of the mind because that carries
on has applicability later on in
Scientology I mean that's a pretty
powerful model of the mind I mean Freud
had similar conceptions that a lot of
our traumas are grounded in
sort of uh
poor formulation of sexuality or
imperfect formulation of sexuality no
childhood something like this and then
we're trying to figure out the puzzle
whatever we formed in early childhood
right and it's similar similar kind of
it is similar that's probably what
Hubbard took it from
um in the early days of Dianetics before
he decided Psychiatry was evil uh he
actually credited Sigmund Freud with
some of the shoulders he was standing on
in writing Dianetics so the so he still
admired Psychiatry at that time so
that's an interesting moment of
Dianetics so what else you mentioned
Dynex auditing was there too so if we
just before Scientology what what are
the ideas that formed what we know as
Dianetics as I've just described that is
the fundamental at least that is pretty
much the nuts and bolts of dinetics was
it applied was it applied often oh yeah
no that's what diet next in the early
days was all about was just auditing
auditing is the process of the
one-on-one counseling recall a moment of
pain and unconsciousness run through the
engram over and over and over again find
something earlier similar that is
dianetics auditing one of the main
things that changed with Scientology is
that birth or prenatal ingrams were no
longer the earliest engrams on the Chain
yeah the idea is you have to get the
earliest engram on the chain for the
later ones to blow which is a race
and so but all of a sudden now with the
uh addition of an immortal spiritual
being into the equation well now the
earliest incident could be trillions of
years ago in other galaxies and
universes other universes so before the
origin of this universe yes is there a
model of physics integrated in any of
this no
the model is you have the physical
universe
and then above that you have the Theta
universe so we use the word thing
earlier so in Scientology let's use word
Theta
I don't know theta's just basically
thetan power Satan's collectively
so Hubbard would say you have the Theta
Universe which is senior to the physical
universe and creates the physical
universe and remember I said I said
native god-like potentials so we're not
talking about the God who created the
Earth we're just like scientologists
don't believe in a God but we'll get
into that later
uh we're talking about CR just creating
universes like just think like Matrix
like just when I say creating a universe
essentially just creating different
things simulations
but it sounds like a little bit more
like the ideas of Plato which is there's
these platonic forms there's abstract
forms that are
bigger more General than our particular
reality here and those forms are used to
construct the reality well I grew up in
a call so I'm not familiar with the
works of Plato
[Laughter]
you can't use that as an excuse for
everything
I would like to you know non-jokingly
yeah Steel Man the case because a lot of
philosophies a lot of religions a lot
even scientific endeavors
are a little bit full of uncertainty you
can call it bullshit but they're you're
on on sturdy ground because we're
surrounded by mystery and you have to
take these ideas
somewhat seriously and see where those
ideas go wrong this happens with
Communism this happens with capitalism
these ideas sound beautiful in their
ideal forms and then they somehow go
wrong and some go more wrong than others
and so I don't think sort of it's easy
to
sort of caricature and make fun of the
ideas I think if we take them seriously
you'll start to understand like when
you're in it it was serious uh it can be
very convincing it's you know the the
devil is going to be a charismatic
person he's not going to be a caricature
of ridiculous person so that that helps
us understand which ideas
uh will sound appealing but will become
dangerous I totally agree in fact it's
one of the
thrusts uh I have on my channel is
wanting to talk about scientology in a
way that would actually resonate with
current scientologists not just resonate
with former scientologists I want people
who are still in to be able to hear how
I talk about it and go wow he's being
really fair and really accurate he's not
just a hater you know what I mean if you
look at the you know let's take one of
the worst places on Earth is North Korea
uh you have Kim Jong-un and the reality
is there's a lot of citizens of that
nation that deeply love the leader
because they've grew up in that way and
you I mean through fear through all
kinds of manipulation through propaganda
and so on they're not allowed to love
members of their own family they're not
allowed to have romantic love they're
only allowed to have love for the leader
and to reach those people you have to
empathize with the fact that in their
eyes in some sense this is a great man
this is a god a Messianic figure you
can't just make fun of the
Ridiculousness of the situation that
this pudgy person Waltzing around
creating propaganda like how is this a
funny haircut with a funny haircut like
it's so easy and Hitler too to make fun
of to make a caricature of the person
but this is a real person a real person
that influenced the minds of millions of
people in the case of Hitler uh you know
tens of millions of people and and
created a huge amount of suffering not
because of
um the caricature version but because he
was a charismatic leader he was somebody
that people deeply deeply loved and that
just over time I mean with the the abuse
of any kind of ideology this this
happens over and over and so yeah it's
it's interesting because Scientology is
so close to the
uh to to the core of what is America
because so many Americans are involved
with it so it's interesting to study the
the Beauty and the power of the idea is
that underlie it and where things go
wrong yeah
and I'll just say it's interesting to
know you would never get a
representative of the Church of
Scientology to sit down and have a
conversation with you and even be as
fair and accurate about scientology as
I'm going to be which is which is
noteworthy do you honestly deeply
believe that's the case there's not
going to be a high level official that
would sit down for a conversation
no I disagree with you I hope you're
right because I think that given the
current dynamics of what's Happening
I think in order to say from their
perspective in order to save the the
Church of Scientology they have to uh be
transparent and authentic basically
steal men their case but better you
would think so
well we'll talk about the other ways you
could do that which is the manipulation
to propaganda through control media and
all that kind of stuff they paint
themselves into a corner of not being
able to send a representative out into
the world to speak honestly about it
because you're literally not allowed to
so when faced you know if you're just
sitting down with an entertainment
journalist a representative might be
able to fudge their way through an
interview but sitting down for a long
Format Interview with someone who is
going to ask them about Xenu and the
body fatens and Leah Remini and Lisa
McPherson that's a no-go zone so so I'm
representing why it will never happen
but shit I would I would tune in for
that interview I mean I hope you do get
someone you don't think David miscavage
was the dolphin interview
I would love to be wrong you know in
general journalists in these kinds of
situations can be
um
can attack
in a way that doesn't empathize and
doesn't come from a place of deep
knowledge and understanding and I think
it's possible to have serious
conversations with people like that in
an empathetic way but it's also in a
challenging way I think there's a huge
amount of trust required and obviously
for us a very secretive organization the
amount of trust yes might be too much
required anyone over there if they've
done their homework knows you're going
to be as Fair as anyone in the world is
going to be
and yet they're simply things they're
not allowed to talk about and they're
not even allowed to say I'm not allowed
to talk about it so that's a fundamental
part of the Church of Scientology is the
secrecy yeah
so that's what you're trained as you go
up through the ranks as secrecy Secrets
it's not even a matter of training it's
that there's an entire the entire upper
half of scientology's bridge is simply
confidential I mean and I never even did
those levels when I was in Scientology I
didn't learn what scientologists
actually believe on those upper levels
until after I get out of Scientology and
I was freaking born and raised in it
let's go there let's go to a personal
story so you've spent 30 years in
Scientology yeah I was four years old
when my mom got in and then about seven
years ago I got out yeah and you're on
what YouTube channel now and you're an
educator so I was four years old when my
mom got introduced to Scientology and
she got in really fast really quick
um so but I was 12 years old when I was
taken out of school and started
officially full-time working for
Scientology okay so
um in various capacities I worked for
them from the ages of 12 to the age of
26. yeah okay so and then I was 34 when
I officially parted ways with
Scientology
which was really more them officially
parting ways with me but we can get into
all that later that's just kind of how
Scientology does it and what do you do
now in terms of Scientology so now I run
growing up in Scientology the YouTube
channel but what I primarily do is I
help run an organization that helps
people who are escaping from Scientology
I'm the vice president of the aftermath
Foundation
and we created the foundation after the
television show Leah Remini Scientology
in the aftermath
and there was such an outpouring of
support from non-scientologists all over
the world
what can we do to help people leave
Scientology that we decided to create a
foundation and it's been incredibly
successful we've helped people escape
from all regions and echelons of
Scientology we we've accomplished what
we've accomplished is far beyond what we
actually envisioned would be possible
it's been a huge success so we'll talk
about the the negative aspect the abuses
of power but let's just explore the
ideas a little bit more
um so the the public facing three
fundamental truths of
Scientology maybe correct me if I'm
wrong a man is an immortal spiritual
being like with said with Satan's his
experience extends well beyond a single
lifetime so infinite memory backwards
his capabilities are unlimited even if
not presently realized
the capabilities are unlimited yeah so
that when I say god-like I really just
mean you know Thanos like Unlimited
scientologists don't believe in a God so
when I say God like I just mean the most
powerful entity the Creator the the
prime mover unmoved except we are all
that you know a thing in definition in
Scientology thing has no position in
space or time ethane does not actually
exist in the physical Universe it might
choose to locate itself in the physical
Universe right and then forget that it
made that decision and then sort of get
caught and trapped in the physical
universe but that once the thing is uh
restored to its native powers
um everything you see here in the
physical universe is just a thing
playing a game
like later we are in a simulation right
now of something so like physics doesn't
have to make sense when we're talking
about it this way like technically
urethane imatha and we're here but
because this could also all just be
another thing's game so Satan's all the
way down yeah it's just Dayton's
everywhere things it all comes down to
the thing is there an idea of a God
because I've read there's a kind of
there is a sense of a Supreme Being
because that basically the thetan that's
at the core at the bottom of it all yes
not not defined undefined correct
Scientology has this concept of the
Dynamics all right Hubbard breaks life
into eight different Dynamics and the a
dynamic meaning a Thrust towards
survival so he would say you know first
Dynamic is you yourself second Dynamic
is your family third Dynamic is any
other group that you're a part of other
than your family fourth Dynamic is all
humankind uh the fifth Dynamic is plant
and animal life all non-human life uh
sixth Dynamic is the physical world
seventh Dynamic is sort of like
spirituality collectively
and the eighth Dynamic L Ron Hubbard
says Scientology doesn't deal with the
eighth Dynamic but we recognize that
people have this idea of a Supreme Being
and so Scientology says you can call the
eighth Dynamic the Supreme Being Dynamic
but we call it Infinity just the allness
of everything without having to Define
it and then they sort of do a little
dance and they're like Scientology the
purpose of Scientology is to get you to
the point where you have your own
understandings or realizations about the
nature of the eighth Dynamic we don't
tell you what you have to believe about
that and technically speaking that is
true technically speaking that is true
there's no point in Scientology where
they sit you down and say you're now
required to revoke your belief in a
Supreme Being it's just that everything
in Scientology is is inconsistent with a
belief in the Supreme Being
you can still find scientologists who
through cognitive dissonance will tell
you they believe in a supreme being
mostly they're lying to you how's this
inconsistent with the Supreme Being
because like Satan's because Satan's
have created everything not God
okay so things creative they they're
also creative for us they're not just
the force that runs everything right but
can't those be just the fingertips of a
god sure the only way you could
reconcile a Supreme Being
is if you say a single Supreme Being
created
all Theta
yeah like the spiritual Big Bang yep but
that's not what most people think when
they say when they talk about God
they're talking about a creator of the
physical Universe yes there's no Theta
right
I mean even as I've described
Scientology so far none of what I've
said is something I even subject to
riddle cool this is pretty Common Sense
stuff actually I mean if you believe in
spirituality or Spirits at all there's
nothing I've described so far that's
crazy yeah you know believing in past
lives isn't particularly unique or
special right
um the fact that Scientology does this
little dance of pretending to believe in
a God I mean it's even like a PR line
Scientology Representatives will tell
you you can be a Christian and be a
Scientologist well let me tell you what
Christians don't believe in past lives
and lives on other galaxies and planets
and universes they but and Scientology
knows that Scientology knows you can't
be a Christian and be a Scientologist
but they will say that it's just an
example of sort of the fundamental baked
in dishonesty because it's so important
to Scientology on their organizational
level to have text exempt status
I wonder how do you do you know the
process of what it takes to prove that
some an organization is a religion while
going through that process with the IRS
for the second time by the way
Scientology actually had tax exemption
in the early days and the IRS pulled it
and then they got it back in 1993. while
going through that process again the IRS
actually took issue with the fact that
Scientology was claiming you could be a
Scientologist and a member of another
religion the IRS actually said pump the
brakes there yeah if you're going to say
that
we're going to say you're not a religion
yeah and they actually in put in writing
to the IRS no no no no that's not what
we meant that's not what we meant
we meant in the beginning you can be
both but eventually you just have to be
a Scientologist so you mentioned the
eight
the eight Dynamics but you also
mentioned survival so that seems to be a
core principle that that human existence
is about survival can you elaborate what
is meant by survival are we talking
about the survival of the human species
survival of the individual humans
survival of the manifestation of Satan's
in human form what what do we what's
survival so it would be all of that
because survival is the the dominant
Force across all the Dynamics
that I mean L Ron Hubbard it was either
Dianetics or science of survival he
he says he discovered the principle upon
which all life exists and that is all
life no matter what it is trying to do
are you ready Alex it's trying to
survive
that's pretty powerful that's pretty
powerful that's it no I I got to tell
you I gotta you might get me back in no
I'm not I'm not trying to get you back
in I'm trying to take you uh get you to
take seriously the power of the ideas
behind Scientology because I think those
ideas are not bad ideas uh they resonate
with a lot of ideas throughout
philosophy through our religions
throughout the history of human
civilization
the interesting aspect is how it goes
wrong but here's the thing like here's
the thing it is consistent with prior
efforts or studies it's just that L Ron
Hubbard said this was a watershed
breakthrough that was being discovered
for the first time that's kind of what
I'm mocking really yeah but you can mock
Nietzsche for saying man is Will To
Power you can claim to be the first
person to ever say it well Nietzsche
he's had a bit of an ego so like and
he's full of contradictions but I'm
pretty sure
the the imply thing is that he was the
first first to say it yeah there's a lot
of scientists there's a one of the
people I really admire is Stephen
Wolfram who uh wrote a a book called A
New Kind of science that explores uh
complex systems and cellular automata
and these mathematical systems that have
been explored before but he boldly kind
of defined I am presenting to you a
whole new way to look at the world and
if you just set a little bit of the ego
behind that aside there's actually
beautiful ideas in there they have of
course been done before and explored
before but sometimes people declare the
coolest that's the only thing I'm really
mocking is yes this discovery that life
is trying to survive is greater than the
discovery of fire okay I mean it gets a
little silly but that's fine we can
agree that the fact that life is trying
to survive has meaning and is Meaningful
and can be is valuable and it's true I
mean life is trying to survive also
there's a non-trivial definition of what
is life here so this idea of a thing the
thing that permeates
through lifetimes yeah through people
there's some some fabric that is bigger
than the individual biological bags of
meat that's a philosophically
interesting idea of course if it's not
grounded in a little bit more uh a
physical reality then it becomes a
little to Google and the way I'll run
Hubbard and Scientology defines survival
is very much intertwined with how they
Define ethics ethics anything you know
to be ethical is pro survival
to be unethical is counter survival but
we were talking about just the concept
of the Dynamics like what does survival
refer to and it actually does refer to
all of them but just keep in mind when
it comes to the seventh Dynamic thetans
collectively
um involved in here's the idea that a
thing cannot die there's no such thing
as killing a thing nathane can only can
only survive
and so
um anyway uh this concept of the
Dynamics is one of the most fundamental
and important Concepts in Scientology
but but because I mentioned that it also
gets tied up with ethics and this
probably speaks to what you're just
talking about is you can have the ideas
and the concepts and you can have how do
they go wrong
because they hold
that Scientology applying Scientology
getting people into Scientology is the
key to basically saving every spiritual
being in existence
when you're analyzing what is ethical it
becomes whatever is good for Scientology
becomes by definition ethical because
anything that's good for Scientology
which is a third Dynamic is inherently
good for all the Dynamics so that's
where you get
the ends justifying the means to do any
anything possible and use any means
necessary to afford the aims of
Scientology that's kind of where a lot
of uh Soviet implementation of Communism
went wrong is the ends justify the means
the equality the justice for the workers
uh if we have to kill murder in prison
censor yeah in in the name of that then
it's it's for the greater good in the
long term to achieve the the ideal of
Communism in some respects Scientology
created a near-perfect communist
experiment in its sea organization
what is it from everyone according to
their ability to reach according to
their need or something like that
Scientology C organization is damn near
a perfect communist experiment
coming from someone who doesn't
necessarily know the perfect communist
experiment really is because I'm not
grew up in a cult Lex you can't use it
as an excuse It's a funny tagline to use
in my videos I like it but like it is
interesting that an organization that is
so hyper capitalist and so money hungry
and is known to be very wealthy at its
core is run by these group of seog
members that live a communist lifestyle
we're gonna jump around let's go what is
sea org what is C organization what is
this organization the C organization is
the most dedicated version the most
dedicated brand of scientologists so
there's three like echelons of
scientologists there's public who just
live normal lives in the real world and
they pay to do Scientology courses in
auditing then there's staff members who
also live in the Real Worlds uh but work
on two and a half year contracts or
five-year contracts at their local
Scientology organization and then once
they finish their contract there their
debt is paid or whatever and then
there's the sea org members these are
the guys who signed the billion year
contracts they don't have lives in the
outside world they don't own property
they live in Scientology provided
housing they eat Scientology they eat
Scientology run cafeterias is there an
actual contract that says a billion
years it's symbolic but yes okay like no
it's not a legally enforceable contract
they haven't succeeded in enforcing it
in any subsequent lifetimes yet marriage
contracts should be like that a billion
years not until death to us part but a
billion years it really makes it very
concrete of what you're signing up for
yeah those are the billion year guys you
hear a lot about the billionaire
contract the billion year contract
that's the sea org and and uh all of
Scientology Management International
Management middle management Continental
Management and even some lower level
service orgs are one composed 100 of
cork members
you're not allowed to marry or date
someone who's not in the sea org uh
you're also not allowed to have children
with anybody outside yoga in general
you're not allowed to have children sea
org members are not allowed to have
children unless they leave the sea Arc
if you they're you're expected to uh
have an abortion and stay in the sea org
because it's the greatest good for
Scientology if you accidentally get
pregnant interesting because it
distracts from the focus of the work
yeah what about sexual relations only
once married but that's why people get
married after like three days you're
like hey you you look you look all right
let's get married are you allowed to
have divorce yeah you get divorced a lot
in the sea org I've known people who get
married divorced three times by like by
the age of 25. oh wow because in this
year getting married is practically like
dating right also unless you're married
you're living in dorms with a bunch of
other people so in order to get your own
room you also have to get married so
there's many benefits oh wow okay so uh
you mentioned communism in which way
because there is there a hierarchy
inside sea org is there a redistribution
of uh influence position money power and
sexy org everyone in this New York makes
50 a week everybody except David
miscavige but right and and some uh some
posts might have a cash bonus incentive
structure but fundamentally their pay is
50 a week so so even the head of a big
Scientology organization
is getting 50 bucks a week
our celebrities also part of seaworg or
not usually so this is really the
management layer
so what's the idea behind fifty dollars
a week is that basically live a humble
life they don't have to give you
anything at all it's just Oh you mean
like what's the idea behind not paying
yeah basically not paying
everything you need is already being
provided for you you're not here for the
money
you're working all the time anyway it's
not like you don't have days off I mean
you're you're working all the time
there's there's not it's there's no
concept of the weekends there's no oh
thank God it's Friday Friday's just
another day and how are the position the
tasks the jobs uh allocated within the
sea org what do you mean like like what
kind of tasks you're doing what kind of
stuff you're doing it's very similar to
just any other
um business as far as you can have your
Human Resources you can have your sales
you can have your accounting your
operations your quality control it's
just that in Scientology your operations
is delivering courses and auditing so
your operations and your quality control
were most of the activity occurs as far
as delivering Scientology
and then you've got your you'd call it
business development but that's just
bringing in new members right
so the the the the function of
scientology's organization is very
uh very comparable to a normal business
in the normal world
so let's talk about the products of this
business auditing and courses so what's
auditing so auditing is so we described
earlier Dianetics auditing
Scientology auditing is uh very similar
to that so at first glance it it looks
like Psychotherapy a kind of therapy all
Scientology auditing is going to look
like that it's one-on-one talk therapy
uh you're in a a room by yourselves no
distraction no noise one-on-one yeah
like this yeah but and in Scientology
they have what's called an e-meter who
writes almost all auditing employs the
use of any meter what's an e-meter so an
e-meter is a device that just measures
the resistance to a small electrical
flow except scientologists believe that
this emitter can be used to Simply
direct the progress of an auditing
session to determine whether
uh the auditing has reached a good
satisfactory
conclusion
uh all auditing sessions have to end on
a satisfactory conclusion like that's
the job of the auditor there's you don't
just it's not like sorry the session
sucked see you next week it's not like
that every auditing session has to end
um on a positive note and if it doesn't
uh there's corrections to be made so
um the e-meter what does it look like
visually like oh you can pull it up
pull up Mark eight e-meter Mark eight so
there's a few dials you know there's a
basic information about time and
duration I'm presuming then a dial that
just goes zero to something okay so
let's say that the meter's in front of
me and you're the one holding the cans
I'm holding the cancel your enter you're
doing the auditing of me yeah okay okay
I'm holding the cans no literally in the
beginning of an auditing session when
you're calibrating the sensitivity
sensitivity of the emitter you do like a
can squeeze so I go squeeze the cans
please okay so I'm just like squeezing
yeah and I'm just changing the
sensitivity because when you squeeze the
cans I want to get about a one-third of
a dial drop on the needle the idea is
you don't want if the needle's too
sensitive then every time you shift
around in your chair the needle is going
to bounce all over the place so you're
trying to set the sensitivity to this
thing and that's all the the knob there
on the bottom to the left that's the
sensitivity knob
and that determines just uh how much how
sensitive the needle is going to be and
the the bigger dial is called the tone
arm and that is changing uh I want to
say voltage or current but I'm not
intending I'm going to get one of those
words that's wrong right but it is a
real device it's a real device so you
can actually calibrate uh to probably
you know get an outcome that you want
yeah so here's even how just how a
Scientology auditor believes it works
you're holding the cans there's a tiny
little battery in that emitter that's
sending you're completing the circuit
when you pick up the cans right so you
got a little thing going there and that
needle will respond to your physical
movement but that's not what we want we
want you to sit the hell still so that
we can read this thing when I'm asking
you questions
okay so you're sitting there still very
still as still as you can comfortable
right and I'm gonna go is there
something you're withholding from me and
what I'm looking for is right when I say
at the end of me I'm looking for the
needle to dip to the right having a
needle even if it's kind of random
can really be like um a catalyst for a
conversation that's what it's used for
except it's an enforced conversation so
I'll give you a really good example of
this so
you're holding the cans say is there
anything you're withholding from me
and I get an instant read
and I go is there anything you're
worthholding for me you're gonna go I
don't think so and I don't see the
needle no you don't see the needle okay
I go well what did you think of when I
asked you the question now if you've
already had a lot of auditing you know
how this goes it means I got an instant
read and we're not going to move on
until this question gets resolved okay
so you're gonna go I don't know what I
was thinking of and then I'm gonna I'll
be like you know take a look and I'll
help you out here I'll try to steer you
okay so I'm looking to get roughly the
same read while you're thinking about
whatever I mean what was that what was
that right there and you can start
digging to what you can start I just
want an answer to the question okay and
I can go to memory yeah and you can give
me any answer you want there's no way
for me to know if you're giving me the
right answer but I want you to give me
something yeah if you say you can't give
me anything I'm going to keep using the
emitter until you give me something yeah
okay so let's say you give me something
I'm gonna get all the details about that
and until like time place form an event
I want to know everything that happened
I want to know all the details and by
the way I'm writing all this down so I'm
taking notes of everything you're
telling me that it's a bad thing that
you did that you haven't told me about
okay so I'm keeping notes
when you represent to me that you've
told me everything there is to tell I'm
looking for the needle to give like a
smooth back and forth motion like this
and Scientology calls that a floating
needle that means in Scientology land
we're done with that
so now I might go back to check the
question okay good I'll check the
question again is there anything you're
withholding from me oh if I get another
read we got to go through the process
again okay if you tell me I've told you
everything and I don't get a floating
needle I've got to go okay is there an
earlier similar
thing have you basically done an earlier
similar thing is there an earlier
similar time you haven't told someone
something or is there an earlier similar
thing that you did the thing that you
just told me
we're going to keep going earlier
similar earlier similar earlier similar
until I get a floating needle and that's
where I'm explaining it this way you can
see how no matter what the specific
auditing session happens to be about
there's still the potential in any
auditing session that you're going into
past lives yeah just because you have to
go earlier similar until you get a
floating needle okay now here's how
scientologists think the emitter
actually works meaning why does the
emitter work so we talked before about
these um these mental pictures right
these recordings okay well we spoke
about engrams just recordings of pain
and unconsciousness
well Scientology would hold the the bad
recordings aren't the only recordings
that you have those are just the
recordings in your reactive mind you
also have an analytical mind which is
just your conscious memory conscious
recording of everything from present
time to the last 76 trillion years yeah
and Hubbard would say that these
memories are actually a perfectly
detailed recording and these does like
56 perceptions or something and that
it's perfect
and you can access that information you
just have trouble doing so okay so he
says that these recordings these mental
pictures have actual electrical charge
and Mass
now you asked before is there any actual
physics in this I don't know where are
you supposed to store the pictures of
your last 76 trillion years that have
charge in Mass
I don't see it but Hubbard says it's
there okay
so he says that these things have mass
and when you recall them or put
attention on them
you create an electrical flow
which maybe through magnetic fields or
whatever impinges upon the electrical
flow of the emitter and it shows up as a
read on the needle that's how
Scientology that's how scientologists
believe that's why the needle reads now
cynics would say the needle only reads
on Palm sweat and movement well I know
that's not true
right I can't tell you everything the
needle does read on but I can tell you
it's not just moving your hands in
sweaty hands it does correlate to
thoughts probably some way somehow
because if it didn't correlate to
thoughts that this process would be way
way too inefficient because it would it
would be 200 there there's going to be a
bunch of people who are just not you're
not going to get the what is it called
the floating needle like no matter what
I can't explain to you how you get a
floating needle but it sure as hell
isn't hand sweat and it sure as hell
isn't squeezing the cans right so you
eventually most people will get to the
floating needle and some you get
floating needles there's like a feed
there probably is a feedback mechanism
that you will each person realizes how
their mind and body yeah because you
want a resolution right it's probably
you want your needle to float for both
people yes and it's probably a great
experience when you're like yes it's a
gamified feeling right well when you're
training on how to use the e-meter there
are drills where you practice generating
with your mind various needle reactions
so you know there is a drill where you
sit there and you consciously try to
create a floating needle by recalling
happy thoughts go to your happy place
and at the end of every auditing session
you actually have to go to an a third
party sit down in front of an email and
verify that your needle is floating nice
every single auditing session not only
has to end on a floating needle but then
you have to go to someone else and have
the floating needle verified any
Scientologist who's uh a seasoned
recipient of auditing knows how to make
their needle float at The Examiner
got to be honest though this process
again sorry to be sort of going there
but
um
it feels like this is a very uh rigorous
talk therapy session is there good
aspects to this sure a lot of people
find auditing very helpful I mean I've
heard some describe it as quite
thoroughly addictive me personally I
never enjoyed getting auditing that's
probably more a function of having been
raised in it and it was never something
I wanted to do something that was forced
on me as a child you know and also I was
never I don't like talking about private
secret stuff like you kind of you kind
of have to want to be an open book sure
to to honestly and thoroughly
participate in an auditing session
because there's not necessarily A belief
that this is going to be private there's
no expectation of privacy but there's no
expectation that your stuff's going to
be leaked for blackmail either I mean
you kind of you trust the people in the
organization
even despite rumors and stuff like that
but the rumors are coming from people
that are lying to you essentially
if you're a Scientologist and you're
participating in participating in an
auditing session you know that anyone in
the organization is has the ability to
know the stuff that you talk it's not
like oh my God I'm only telling my
auditor because I think no one's ever
going to know you know that people know
but you also trust the organization how
quickly does it go to past memories for
people who are seasoned like they
actually like going past life
yeah I I hated it I would make sure I
was really good at making my needle
float I didn't want to have some auditor
because I never believed in the past
life memories yeah so I didn't want to
be in that impassable you know reach an
impasse in an auditing session where I
was being asked for something I couldn't
provide because I knew this auditing
session has to end on a good point but
scientologists enjoy for the most part
going they call it whole track whole
track is past life going whole track
your time track they call it the time
track is your whole memory but whole
track refers to anything past life okay
so going whole track or deep hole track
with high reality meaning it's not like
oh I have a fuzzy memory and I'm not
sure if it's real like your real season
scientologists are like oh yeah I was on
this planet oh this time circling this
before that I was eating for breakfast
fascinating before the origin of life on
Earth so so billions of years ago on a
distant planet what you were eating for
breakfast or other universes I wonder if
that's a nice shortcut
to sneak up to actual trauma that
happened to you as a therapy device I
just so putting Scientology aside I just
I'm thinking about as a technique for
therapy discussing basically you know
some people have trauma and one of the
things you do with therapy is like bring
the trauma to the surface that's the
stuff that happened to your childhood
maybe it's a more convenient thing to do
to kind of map that indirectly onto a
fictitious telling of what happened to
you
something like that trauma on a distant
planet elsewhere it could be it could be
a nice way to sneak up to it yeah and it
goes both flows there not just things
that have happened to you but things
that you've done so you know you could
be being asked for you know you'd be
going back to I wiped out a civilization
I don't know this race on this planet oh
wow oh yeah
but so you can actually take on a whole
new guilt oh yeah so I I okay all right
you might actually take on a lot more
guilt and let go of
because if you feel like that
self-critical aspect of the brain
boy because I'm my brain is really
self-critical so I could see myself
manufacturing if I was forced to over
time some kind of story where I did
genocide a whole population of like
Pluto or something at a different
distant is somewhere in Alpha Centauri
yeah so I mean and now I walk around
with that guilt wait am I actually a
horrible person so imagine though if you
had not only are you looking at you know
if someone's being self-critical trying
to identify destructive patterns of
behavior in your present life but what
if you really internalize the fact that
I haven't only been this way
for 40 years I've been this way for 40
trillion years yeah
but Scientology would argue
that as a Satan you're inherently good
all things are basically good so the the
goal of the auditing procedure there
would be essentially to figure out find
the moment find what it was that caused
you
to make that shift as a being
to dramatize you know evil intentions
and stuff like that so even if you're
going whole track
looking at all the horrible things
you've done the goal is to find like
well what happened just prior to that
what was like the prior confusion and
what what did you misunderstand just
before that and whatnot so the goal is
basically so scientologists after a lot
of auditing are also convinced that they
have fixed the reason
for any non-optimum
conduct and underlying this is a belief
that at the core we're all good yes
there's a lot of really powerful ideas
in Scientology which is so interesting
that it goes wrong yeah okay uh what
about the training you mentioned the
training of the auditor that's really
interesting so what's how lengthy is
that process it can take years
I mean one of that question I want to
ask is are people in Sea org like as an
auditor do you believe everything how
much
um is there a crisis of faith that
Creeps in in religion you have a crisis
of faith when you start to wonder like
does God even exist so in this case how
often do you start to doubt
that some of the core beliefs of
Scientology are false
Scientology would say that Scientology
is not about beliefs it's about a
application of the techniques of
Scientology auditing to improve
someone's spiritual awareness and
ability so the belief level of
Scientology is pretty much the stuff
we've already discussed the
effectiveness of the auditing process so
the effectiveness of the auditing
process is one of the things Hubbard
says is that standard Tech standard
Scientology they call it the tech the
technology of how to deliver auditing
standard Tech Works 100 of the time when
applied 100 correctly well that's kind
of unfalsifiable right yeah because
anytime it doesn't work it wasn't
applied correctly exactly
that's a nice little uh escape hatch to
pull on having a crisis of faith it
didn't work well
then obviously it wasn't applied
correctly that's where quality control
comes in their job is to nitpick and you
can always find one thing that wasn't
done correctly communism
uh didn't work because it wasn't
implemented correctly it's the it's
always it's always it's always an escape
hatch with ideologies that's right sure
that's right I would probably argue that
Auditors
um are not in a position of having many
crisis of Faith because actually they're
usually seeing people for the most part
improve in some ways through the process
of auditing now auditing can create like
a state somewhat of a euphoric State you
feel great you're just blown out of your
head you know you feel on top of the
world I've had that in some of my
auditing as an auditor sorry no as a
person receiving auditing okay and so my
point is as an auditor doing a lot of
auditing you know you're going to have
someone in front of you called the the
pre-clear is the person in front of you
who's getting the auditing called the PC
or the pre-clear
they see over and over and over again
these PCS having these sort of euphoric
States and floating needles and I feel
great and fantastic oh thanks you saved
my life like
I've always said if Scientology if
people didn't find Scientology helpful
nobody would ever stay in Scientology
right
and so Auditors are pretty much the ones
doing the heavy lifting of what it even
means to be a Scientologist those guys
aren't the ones that you end up
um having crisis of faith I mean doing
Scientology auditing it doesn't require
that you believe just have faith that
you believe something you just have to
go through these motions and
scientologists one of the reasons
scientologists think this is all
scientific is because it's like I don't
care if you believe why this works I
care how you feel at the end of an
auditing session and empirically
speaking
like anecdotal data is it actually seems
to improve pe