Kind: captions
Language: en
it's the machine it was my friend Daniel
Beauchamp and I we had this long-running
joke about a proud parent machine that
you could give a quarter and a passcode
on the shoulder says proud of you yeah
um so yeah I still have that hanging on
my wall in my workshop so that one I'm
I'm really happy with I just think it's
a really funny concept and also I
executed the build wealth so it's an arm
like what's the build I built it off of
an old lamp arm yeah basically it's just
a motorized arm and this kind of torso
of a person
so it's actually a hand right it's just
laser cut plywood and it kind of has
like it looks creepy yeah and yeah it's
as proud of you son because I just
thought that sounded more funny than
proud of you daughter and also proud of
you son just
it immediately communicates that it's a
parent it's not just like a collie or
something it's like proud of you
yeah oh my charges you a quarter for it
yeah but it added like Chad GPT on top
of that and uh fine tune it on
conversations you've had with your
parents and all of a sudden you have a
thing that can fundamentally transform
your psyche yeah
the following is a conversation with
Simone yet an inventor designer engineer
and roboticist famous for a combination
of humor and Brilliant Creative Design
in the systems and products she creates
including as part of her new product
design company called yetch she has a
popular YouTube channel which she has
demonstrated a lot of her incredible and
fun designs and inventions from quote
shitty robots to a Tesla Model 3
converted into a truck
but where she also revealed her personal
Journey after having been diagnosed with
a brain tumor
Simone is a brilliant fun and inspiring
human being it was truly an honor for me
to get to meet her and to have this chat
this is Alex Friedman podcast to support
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Simone yet
what was the first cool thing you built
or you fell in love with the process of
making stuff you know I think
run into the limitations of your of your
skills so much so I feel like honestly
building gets less and less
frustrating or like I love it more and
more the more I know so the limitations
aren't fun like the limitations are fun
but it's like when you have an idea of
something and you want to make it a
certain level and then you just have to
compromise with the materials and the
tools and the skills you have
um so I can't remember first time where
I felt like I'm proud of this wow this
was so smooth I'm so proud of it like I
feel like
a lot of people I watch them build stuff
and it's just like watching water pour
down you know it's just like so easy and
for me it's just like
trying to shove a toy car into a wall so
you're not able to step back and Marvel
like at the early Creations even like
even like
um we're not even talking loud we know
stuff even before then I'm from Sweden
and you have to choose either sewing or
Woodworking and I chose to like
woodworking in middle school and I
remember the sense of Pride when I got
to bring something home and that thing
of like oh my God I get to show my
parents this
and
I think that is kind of the feeling that
I've built my job around it's like the
sense of Pride and wanting to show
people something that I made and like
back then it was like a little wooden
spoon you know
and now it's a slightly larger wooden
wood spoon this Dynamic it moves and has
a mind of its own
um you first started doing more
engineering type stuff with uh Arduino
boards at punch to design which is an SF
engineering firm what are just from your
memory there what are some cool things
you built there so the thing is I I went
to advertising school and I just like a
vocational studies a year and I realized
there that I didn't care much for
advertising but I thought it was really
fun to build stuff and programs so like
I just completely focused on that and
there I built
my first Hardware project or like
Electronics project which was this uh
iPhone case with retractable guitar
strings so basically I imagine that you
could like pull out guitar strings from
the bottom of your iPhone and you could
pluck it to your belt and then you could
hold a cord on the screen and I built
that together with my friend Jonathan
and I was like oh this is dope I thought
it was so much fun and I considered like
oh should I go to school for this but
then I thought maybe I can get a job and
I could get paid to learn about
Electronics so just based off of that
one project I got the job at punch
through design there's actually was a
one year internship can you explain what
we're talking about here so it's a case
with guitar strings attached yeah does
it actually work at all
these are not on the screen guitar
strings no so they're actual strings
that you pull out so there's a mechanism
that's almost like a seat belt mechanism
and yeah you pull them out from the
bottom of uh your phone and you can
attach them to your belt I mean it's
terrible
there's a few different ways to decide
if somebody's touching a guitar string
and what you do in a real guitar is you
have the little it's like measuring the
vibration or the change and the as as
the yeah you're measuring how the guitar
is vibrating and you can't really do
that because I can't have a a receiving
sensor because the guitar strings are
going to move in relationship to that
because you don't have like a rigid neck
and this is like yeah this was my first
Electronics project I was a little
fledging baby maker but what I decided
was to use capacitive touch
because that is independent on if the
guitar strings are moving in
relationship to something or in relation
to something so basically there was just
this little Bluetooth Arduino board that
this company punched through design made
so that was how I found them and I
measured the capacitive touch so like
whenever
um the guitar string was measured there
was this little microcontroller that was
like oh my God a guitar string got
measured or touched and then that sent a
signal over Bluetooth to my phone and I
built a little iPhone app that
interpreted those Bluetooth signals and
then checked what type of cord I was
holding on the screen and then played
the code here I see holding the chords
on the screen so you're doing the
multi-touch sensing there
that's incredible I honestly cannot
believe that I pulled it off because I
think I was I was ignorance was
definitely Bliss because that was like
yeah the first Hardware
project I'd ever built the first iPhone
app I'd ever programmed and like now if
somebody was like Hey I want this to be
my first project I would probably be
like oh that's a lot but
we'll get off because that's such an
interesting thing
for people to hear because it's your
first project and a lot of people stop
because of the difficulty of their first
project they never truly discovered
their own genius because they stopped
with the first and you didn't stop so
it'd be interesting to kind of
psychoanalyze you on the couch of why
you didn't stop because you have to
build an app you have to figure out how
to did you know how to program much or
no okay I mean a little bit but I never
programmed and or done any iOS apps okay
so you have to figure out how to get
forget like what the app does just get
the app running and working and then you
have to figure out how to get the
sensors in like real time to finger
touching and you have to connect how to
get the capacitor's touch working with
the microcontrollers do you know
anything about the capacitor touch
sensors at that time I mean it's pretty
easy
um now it's basically everything's easy
yeah you know Rockets are pretty easy
you sound like my grandma she's I have
an Italian grandma and uh I always
trying to get her we're like trying to
get her to tell her recipes and every
recipe starts with
it's very simple yeah and then there's
like 45 minutes of her explaining it
it's like with gymnastics at the
Olympics they make it look easy the best
people in the world always make the the
impossible to seem easy I pride myself
with making buildings that look really
hard because I feel like I'm always
struggling so much you make the easiest
human possible no uh
so how many strings was it is it just oh
gosh I think this is such a long time
ago no it was six oh six strings and you
could touch it and then there's
wow and it can and then the phone itself
makes a sound
still think it's such a cool concept to
have this like mobile I'm not even a
guitar player I don't know I was I mean
I got the idea because I was uh kind of
strumming on my charge cord of my phone
oh like an air guitar but on a cord yeah
fun to go back to that project with what
I know now but the problem with it is
that when you're producing the tension
in your string just with your arm like
you can't make it taut enough to
actually play like it kind of becomes
playing these like saggy strings so as
you're not really getting that
experience and I think that's why I mean
I
yeah I haven't really pursued I wonder
if there's a way to generate the
tightness
from the case itself
it's a good device that unfolds and then
with some kind of tightening mechanisms
yeah but then it kind of becomes like a
whole thing in a guitar then it just
becomes a really shitty guitar yeah like
which this is a really shitty guitar but
it's also but it's so shitty it's
awesome yeah I don't know I don't know
but it's a cool it's cool that you have
an interface between
a device that's capable of incredible
computational power and an actual
Hardware thing is there something that
you can psychoanalize
that made you finish that others could
hear
in their own struggle to uh
do their first project like that because
you were not you were in a
non-engineering person technically
and you did a pretty cool Renegade out
there
wild no instructions
engineering projects no it's definitely
it was an off-road build where it's like
if you're building a Lego kit it's very
much on the road and you're following
instructions and this is like you have
no idea if you're headed for a cliff or
a dead end or you're gonna get stuck
um I think it had a natural pressure to
it because it was a school project yeah
so it did have deadlines built into it
and and stuff like that so that
definitely helped but I think also it
was just so incredibly motivating when I
realized that I might be able to pull it
off
like that was I felt like a bloodhound
you know and you're just like oh my God
I can actually make this happen and I
think if
I hadn't seen that the Horizon it would
have been harder to stick through you
were you able to see the end of the
tunnel um
pretty early on no not really
so there's something just suffering for
a while I don't know how how your brain
works but it's like if I have a problem
I can't stop thinking about it like it's
so fun to think about it like I spent I
spent
two and a half years designing a coat
hanger
and I just can't stop thinking about it
like I get so into it because I think
it's so much fun
take me to this
two-year journey of the code hanging out
of the code hanger what how did it begin
how did it begin it began with a corner
in my home where I couldn't fit a coat
rack the thing is I shouldn't have
brought this up because I'm gonna
release it as a product probably in a
year on an actual product okay well it
is a mystery it's a mystery yeah but it
solves a fundamental problem in in The
Human Condition and I am so excited
about it and I cannot I don't yeah but
this is I get so
pumped about it because I see it's just
this issue or like this problem that I
want to solve and I I kind of can't put
it to rest until I have
it's I mean speaking of cone hangers
uh doorknobs have always been
interesting to me
it's cool how there's things that
everybody uses that somebody designed
yeah oh my God so okay so this is I so I
have two like big so basically I started
on YouTube and and I'm been doing that
for like the last seven or eight years
and I've kind of been thinking of like
okay what's next for me because I want
to keep on trying out new things and I'm
I'm kind of
going into two different Avenues one is
the product business that I started code
hinders TBD
um and then I am working on a pilot
episode of a show where each episode is
about an everyday object and why they
look the way that they do so we've
written a pilot episode about forks and
it's all about like why do they look the
way that they do why did this became the
like eating Implement of the West why
are we ruled by an iron Fork how did
that happen in every everyday object
that you have and that you just take for
granted somebody's just made it up yeah
we're all sheep well I'll keep using it
yeah even if it's not optimal I mean
presumably most objects are optimal you
hope or at least a local options yeah
and that's what I think is so like the
world around us and this is why I love
building things is because it just opens
up this idea that the world around us is
so malleable
can make objects work for you better
like I spent I I made this fruit bowl I
had a fruit bowl and I was always
annoyed that I had either too little or
too much fruit for it so I made a fruit
bowl where I can change the diameter of
it it has a mechanism so you can like
make it bigger or smaller and that's
just like the thing of being like
bowls why are they the way that they are
I can make them different and I think
like I want to make an episode about
doorknobs I think it's so interesting
why are they the way they are why are
they placed the way where they are I
think there's going to be a rabbit hole
from which you will never return I would
happily live in that rabbit hole forever
like if I could if I can like dig out a
little niche for myself there because I
think it's like
because you know they go so deep they're
also on different sides of doors you
never like the push-pull situation on
doors in general like that's one of the
main problems of humanity
figuring out which is embarrassing yeah
just okay how many there's eight billion
peoples on people on Earth every single
second there is millions of people being
embarrassed by the confusion
some guy first time in college he's
trying to be impressive to everybody to
pushes on and he plays it off like it's
cool oh shit I knew that nope and it
affects our behaviors that was why I
think it's so interesting with forks is
that Forks actually affect our eating
behaviors and they can get you to eat
faster or slower take bigger bites or
smaller bites and they're all these ways
or like the social I mean the reason
that
um Chopsticks work is because they do
the food shopping in kitchen
rather than on the plate and also you
have a bowl that you bring to your mouth
with whereas a plate you keep on the
like they're just all these ways and
these objects affect our Behavior
opening and closing doors and I think
it's such an interesting take on culture
through and like human behavior through
these objects that we use every day and
we never question them really yeah and
then there's institutions that are
controlling our mind that don't want us
to know the truth why are sporks not
more popular have you asked yourself
that question yeah no it's all big
utensil is behind all of it all right so
I mean in those early days
um did you suffer from imposter syndrome
like that leap to being an engineer
was there
especially when you started uh working a
punch the design
on a team of Engineers was there
insecurity
both yes and no I think I've um
I always try to flip my flaws into
selling points and for that so getting
that job I
I was like oh you're a team of Engineers
everybody working here is an engineer
your customers are not all Engineers you
need somebody who can be your filter and
tell you when something's going to be
too hard for your customers to
understand so it was more me being like
Oh No it might seem that me not having
skills is a bad thing like actually it's
a great thing I represent the everyday
person I understand deeply what
everybody needs and wants yes that is me
the representation of the of the average
human
um but I mean I I remember that so I
studied physics for a year in college
and then I dropped out and I had this
rule for myself that whenever I did not
understand any something I would ask a
question so I was always raising my hand
in class and it's this room entirely
like Auditorium filled with incredibly
intelligent people who are mortified of
seeming stupid and I think that was
really like and I remember people people
at the end of the year coming up to me
being like thank you so much for all the
questions you asked because whenever
there was something that I was too
scared to ask you always raised your
hand so
I think it is a bit of a skill and I
think that is kind of how I Channel my
imposter syndrome is I'm just like
now let's lay it all out there is you
okay being almost like self-deprecating
just coming off I mean I'm definitely
that I kind of lean into call myself an
idiot I lean into being stupid I think
not all heroes wear capes and the guy
and girl who asks the stupid question
is everybody's hero including the
teachers yeah I think it's it's both
it's a double-edged sword
I started out on the internet kind of I
kind of got the moniker the queen of
shitty robots because I posted a lot of
stuff on slash R shitty robots on Reddit
and people started calling me the queen
of Slash R shitty robots and then the
slash R kind of dropped so what I'm
trying to say is I did not come up with
that with myself
um but I did happily adopt it so I
definitely came from a place of like
building things that didn't work and
kind of
yeah everything going wrong every time
like happily failing and I think that
was amazing it was a really powerful
tool for me to like not get my
perfectionism in the way because if I
set out to do something that's great
then I'm never gonna start and I was
like no I just need something that looks
funny
um
but what I've realized
now is there's also a defense mechanism
being self-deprecating is like always
beating people to the punch
it kind of was a survival tactic on the
internet of being like never daring to
set out as an expert and I still do that
like I'm terrified to tell people how to
do something even if I know
um because it kind of opens you up for
being shot down so I think I have I
definitely have a conflicted
relationship with it and now especially
as I'm I'm getting older I am more
skilled than I was before I mean I'm a
CEO of three businesses and I'm like I
don't need to like keep on talking
myself down all the time so yeah I think
it's definitely something that has
served me really really well and that is
still like a
thing that I have in my work life and in
my relationships but I'm also trying to
only
do it when it's beneficial to me and not
when it's harmful yeah I mean but when
you're as successful as you are I feel
like people like it when you're
self-deprecating you don't take yourself
seriously you have that humility
I think it's probably the hardest when
you're starting out yeah because
I think it was easy
but nobody takes you seriously right and
when you're starting out when you're
young like you know I just realized that
I played a lot more stupid than I was
and
I think it's also
oh gosh I can't believe I'm the one
bringing this up uh but like being a
woman in a male dominated field
and you're like trying I was just trying
to make myself the least amount
threatening or like really unthreatening
because people are threatened by you in
different ways and it's like you have
such a thin line that you can walk where
you're like okay I need to be just
attractive enough for people to not be
offended by my appearance but just
unattractive enough for people to not
sexualize me I have to be just smart and
witty enough for people to be like oh my
God that's really cool but also shoot
myself down enough for other people not
to be able to do it or be like oh yeah
watch this woman try to thinking that
she knows how to
build Electronics you know so it's like
that's a interesting skill to build
especially when you put yourself out
there on the internet yeah like you
unfortunately that's the reality of the
internet
and it's a skill you have to kind of
develop and it's actually why a lot of
really brilliant people avoid the
internet yeah like there's not many
people like at MIT for example there's
not many
brilliant professors or PhD students and
so on just putting their stuff out there
because
like
um if they
what like if they really put their heart
and soul into a thing first of all
that's really hard and nobody nobody
sees it and everyone's like this is
boring so there's so many failure modes
like this is boring or like like you
said you're coming off as too much of an
expert you're not self-deprecating
enough well there's just so many failure
modes and it's terrifying for people but
I feel like that's a skill you should
learn because
most people like nmit University and so
on are doing a lot of awesome stuff yeah
and he should show it off but I feel
like
you figured out a really good process of
of showing it off when you fail when you
succeed all of it not taking yourself
too seriously but also revealing through
the humor and the self-deprecation a
kind of Genius a kind of intelligence
and curiosity can't I just want to
snapshot that quote and put it on my
LinkedIn
what is your autobiography oh never
you don't want to say that because like
a year from now oh gosh I don't wanna I
don't want to shit on autobiographies
yeah no no but even just by saying that
I'm shitting on autobiographies I just
me being interested enough in somebody
to want to read 600 pages about them
talking about themselves it's a
no well well that's exactly the kind of
person that should write one but yeah
but also I'm fucking 32 years old what
do I have to write about like I went
through puberty I lost my virginity and
here we are like I don't know it's like
such a
three chapters yeah it's a coloring book
chapter seven I learned to tie my own
shoelaces
I feel like it would be awesome anyway
what's the uh the queen so how did you
achieve the status of royalty the queen
of shitty robots what's the origin story
there I've I mean I have officially
renounced my title now can you still
speak of the time when you like I can't
still speak of the time your kingdom yes
uh no I mean it started on because I did
you rule by love or fear by fear of
rejection
from me that people would reject me so I
um yeah I started making these little
gifts like my the early projects that I
did were very gift forward
it was always like I only did it because
they could be translated into a gif give
forward I like it yeah but honestly it
was like it's a really good mental
exercise to vet if your project is easy
enough to be explained by like a seven
second looping video without audio
and because like nobody's gonna care
that it also has Bluetooth like it's
really like is it is it self-explanatory
enough to
um be explained through a gif so yeah
just pause I'm sorry to interrupt but I
feel like all scientific papers and
projects should go through that exercise
yeah actually uh deepmind does a good
job of this like you know this we've saw
protein folding here's a gif that's
literally what they do yeah because
who's gonna read the nature paper so
like this you have to like how do we
communicate this visually in a sexy
clean way where people can intuitively
understand even if you don't know what a
protein is even if you don't know what
protein folding is yeah it's very like
yeah if somebody comes out of context
and that's been really interesting also
like building this product business and
trying to do the marketing around that
and I'm like if somebody comes in and
they have no idea
about what this product is will they get
it explained to them in this ad and I
don't know but it's definitely a
worthwhile exercise to do so I started
making these projects that got
translated into gifts
and I posted them on slash R City robots
on Reddit so that's how bright it
existed yeah
I loved it I thought it was really fun
and I was like I want to contribute with
content here
I don't I mean okay I don't know I was I
think I was voted top user of 2015. so
yeah that's an old Merit but once you
win a Nobel Prize you always have the
notebook okay so what was the first do
you remember the early gifts that you
created so this is when I was at punch
through design in San Francisco I would
kind of building a lot of Hardware
projects for them but I also felt and
they were so supportive of me but I also
it's such a different way representing a
brand versus representing yourself so
there were some projects that I just
like ruled out because I was like this
feels too weird for this brand
and I started building them on the side
one of them was a toothbrush helmet and
yeah so it's like a skateboard helmet
with a robot arm on the forehead kind of
like a unicorn horn and it brushes your
teeth for you is that the first YouTube
video you uploaded it was the first gift
that I uploaded so actually I wanted to
um I wanted to do a kids show about
Electronics in Sweden because I was like
I love Electronics I think it's fucking
dope I could do a kids show about it so
I filmed this terrible terrible pilot
episode in my bedroom in San Francisco
and that's when I built the toothbrush
helmet and I emailed it to them I mean
just cold email like I'd know in or
anything but I was like Hey I want to do
this and
um they didn't get back to me nobody's
surprised and I was like well I have
this
thing I built I might as well post it on
the internet so that's why I made the
little GIF and I posted it on slash I do
robots and I think it got like 50 000
views and I was like Wow and from there
I just kept on building things and I
think Within
six months it was my full-time job can
you go through the detailed design of
this toothbrush helmet there's a motor
it's like a server like what what uh
what's the motor what's the is an
Arduino involved yeah so I built it off
of
um this robot arm called me arm
so it's just this acrylic robot arm
and
um I think it has three Servo Motors
and it's all controlled by an Arduino
all the electronics already pre-built
there was a kit so I assembled it how do
you make sure the the length of the arm
is the proper I mean the arm came down
so it's like yeah I just programmed it
to come down to my mouth and then poorly
brush my front teeth yeah yeah it was
just swung back and forth I mean trialum
error what was the challenges of that
do you remember oh gosh or was that one
not much of a struggle challenge no it
was definitely a struggle
um because also how do you Loop it with
a nice gift
I mean it looks fine yeah it looks like
yeah that's not that's not that hard uh
no I mean it doesn't have to be perfect
it's a gif it's the internet things are
shitty all the time I think I mean I
think the biggest struggle of that was
that I had this intention for it to be
this show and then
them not giving oh yeah yeah giving back
and I was like well if they don't want
it then maybe YouTube will have me they
don't notice my genius yet what was it
what was so bad about the pilot do you
remember what's like the most
embarrassing oh cringy yeah I mean it's
thankfully not on the internet so nobody
can find it but it's very much me being
in what I called host mode which is
where I'm like okay so what we're gonna
learn today is that we're gonna look at
this this is something called a Servo
motor and it's like the intonation and
everything is really different
and I'm actually I mean I thinking back
of that I'm so happy that they didn't
get back to me
because it's such a different thing to
kind of start your career in your living
room running back and forth to the
camera and like filming something and
looking at it and like I got to really
find my own voice in a different way and
then like a year later
they offered me a show but then I was so
off and running I was like no I don't
want to do this you didn't fall into the
place of being like a
actor like a YouTuber where you're
presenting a kind of personality you're
more focused on the product you're
creating I mean I think it's a the
combination
of it I mean I I think of it as acting
sometimes but I only play the role of
myself but of course it's like when
you're shooting something for the
seventh time yeah like you have to be
able to Muster that enthusiasm but no
it's not a kind of
think of everyday life me as a watered
down version of the YouTube version it's
like that's a cheap knockoff
yes.com version no it's just like add a
few parts water
but like on YouTube it's just so
condensed because you have jump cuts and
you know like I'll scrape jokes and make
sure that everything lands and there's
music and stuff and then like in real
life you don't have any of that but it's
still me uh what are some other cool
robots in the early days that stand out
to you I mean there's a million we can
go through like what um maybe what what
was like a challenging one like a really
challenging one in the early days
I mean I remember the breakfast robot
which was my second project was a
challenging one so eating cereal yeah
it's a robot that like pours milk and
cereal and feeds me with a spoon I was
mostly challenging because it was so
like
everything had to be in the right
location and there were so many takes
before I got everything right and by
right I mean it makes an absolute mess
um yeah that one was challenging but it
takes was that one
I don't know probably 12 10 so it's just
a mess everywhere as a mess and also I
use like Cheerios for the cereals and my
it's shot in my old bedroom in San
Francisco and the floors were sticky for
weeks afterwards juicer goes into your
autobiography yeah
nice let's check it just type out this
podcast let's release it as a and my
manager would be stoked we'll fix it in
post
um yeah the feed because you have like a
couple of feeding ones right a soup
isn't there a soup one yeah there's a
soup robot
um there's a beer pouring robot
I mean that's that's awesome that's a
difficult robotics problem
in the shitty and the in the perfect
version
of having an arm that interacts
intimately with a human being and one of
the most intimate things you can do with
a human being that's PG is defeated
where's he going with this uh oh my God
he's a YouTube comic come live like damn
it so like to me there's uh like feeding
is tricky
or even like getting a beer even pouring
a beer is tough into a glass yeah it's
trickier than anyone who hasn't tried it
thanks and
even making it I think what I realized
is that like
making things really shitty or like
failing in a spectacular way is also its
own sort of skill because like the
shittiest robot is the one that doesn't
turn on right but like that isn't much
to watch so it was always like wanting
for it to fail in these kind of
spectacular ways
um no there's a lot of stuff to be said
about Engineering in it is there
something to be said on a philosophical
level about the value of a flawed robot
so like
the kind of robots you want is to be
partially flawed like do you think the
kind of robots will have in the home
that are friends and
um you know almost like pets wouldn't
they need to be kind of shitty because
we can love the somehow we humans loved
the shitty I mean it is kind of
endearing and because I think it it kind
of I'm gonna mess up this world word
anthropomorphize system
I think it's I mean I never feel as
deeply connected to my Roomba as when
it's like
I'm on a cliff like paper have you had
roomba's taught me ledge no I really
yeah I've done that a lot yeah when they
talk to you yeah
immediately anthropomorphize them yeah
and then you have if they have a name
which is why most roboticists don't give
names or gender to robots because you
become connected to them I'm of the
opposite mind
you should have like an intimate
relationship sounds weird but you should
have a close connection to robots I mean
there there's power in that there's a
social element of Robotics even an arm
I don't know there's something about us
humans that gain so much value
from our interaction with Dynamic
objects and we should like lean into
that as opposed to run away from it that
was always the confusing thing to me
about robotics is that most roboticists
run away from that yeah
weird because it's obviously going to be
robots are obviously going to be
everywhere
yeah obviously but it's also humans are
sensitive and Squishy and there's so
much liability oh yeah
yeah but the humans are sensitive and
Squishy
when they interact with each other and
they hurt each other all the time
like sometimes they get together and
they're like oh you're the best you know
you're the best and then they leave each
other and then they break each other's
heart sorry about your breakup life he's
trying to get over this
I'm actually drunk for this interview I
haven't been able to sleep
but
from a safety protocol perspective
people think about like physical damage
not emotional damage I know this sounds
ridiculous I know it sounds ridiculous
but it won't be it's already happening
there's an app called replica where
people have an intimate relationship
with an AI chatbot and they hurt
themselves I was thinking about this
yeah okay in dating what if you because
you can train
like a chat bot to kind of mimic the way
that you talk to people and interact
with people go on yeah but then I'm like
okay but what if we could all make AI
versions of ourselves and have them date
yeah like thousands of thousands of
other AI people and have that as a way
to turn out potential potential
candidates like I feel like that's gonna
be what's what's the
yeah what's the what no but what's the
point of like meeting 20 people if
you're like oh but if we just had our AI
versions of ourselves in Iraq they'd be
like oh your your method of conflict is
not going to match or what if the AI
version of you like sleeps around with
all the other AIS and it becomes famous
for that and it starts its own only fans
and then it becomes and you're like what
did you do you come back home you'd
realize like I don't I didn't want to
created a monster create a monster I
mean do I get a cut exactly that's the
question I have to ask but I think it's
definitely like yeah the the human
technology interaction is really
interesting because I feel like I don't
love any of the machines that I have in
my life really you haven't you haven't I
mean I don't love my phone I touch it
all the time and it's there and it's
like constantly it's a constant presence
but there's nothing in the meat that
feels like oh I love this object like I
kind of despise it
well that might be the way you show love
I don't know yeah that's a deeper that's
another psychoanalysis thing uh so you
know there's not robots whom you've
taken apart that you miss
no they're all terrible I mean I I have
objects that I built that I love
um none of the robots I think but that's
also because it was a different that was
a different era where I wasn't really
putting a lot of care into the projects
I built so the more care you put into it
into the design to actually make it look
to make it functional and look good
that's where you put the love in yeah I
mean it is it's like I feel like any
technology company that figures out a
way to get you to actually genuinely
love your Roomba or like love it in the
way that you would love a pet
there's a lot to
be gained yeah and I think it's scary
depending on who the company is because
then they can manipulate you yeah if you
love your Roomba
and all of a sudden your Roomba starts
telling you
to buy stuff yeah or it's leaving to put
lotion on Jeff bezos's head yeah yeah I
don't know where the lotion came in but
yes maybe if I certainly I just imagine
my Amazon Echo being like hey Jeff Bezos
is really a great guy
but even though you haven't do you think
it's possible to fall in love with the
robot yeah I mean people fall in love
with things all the time well people
have fallen in love with Yoshi robots
probably
I guarantee you there's people listening
to this that are a little bit
heartbroken saying that you've never
fall in love with your shitty robots
they're like but I had a relationship
like I have an emotional connection to
that robot like the one with the parent
Patsy on the back oh that one that one I
do like I like that one a lot um that's
probably my favorite like shitty robot
can you explain it so it's the machine
it was my friend Daniel Beauchamp and I
we had this long-running joke about a
proud parent machine that you could give
a quarter and a passcode on the shoulder
says proud of you yeah
um so yeah I still have that hanging on
my wall in my workshop so that one I'm
I'm really happy with I just think it's
a really
funny concept and also I executed the
build well so that was so it's an arm
like what's the build yeah I built it
off of an old lamp arm yeah basically
it's just a motorized arm and this kind
of torso
of of a person so it's actually a hand
right that's not it correctly it's like
a laser cut it's just laser cut plywood
and it kind of has like it looks creepy
yeah which I like yeah the creepy helps
with the yeah
and yeah it's as proud of you son
because I just thought that sounded more
funny than proud of you daughter and
also proud of you son just
it immediately communicates that it's a
parent it's not just like a colleague or
something it's like proud of you
yeah oh my charges do a quarter for it
yeah but he added like Chad GPT on top
of that and uh fine tune it on
conversations you've had with your
parents and all of a sudden you have a
thing that can fundamentally transform
your psyche yeah
that's all it takes that's a beautiful
creation how'd you come up with that
creation I was my friend Daniel and I
who had a long-running joke about it
high level can you speak to your
creative process I think a lot of it I
mean it's changed for the Shady robots
yeah I mean it has a lot of overlap
um so it's identifying everyday problems
and in the shitty robot era I would kind
of take an everyday problem like oh I
have a hard time getting up in the
morning and I would have solve it in the
most ridiculous spectacular way I could
think of so for waking up in the morning
it was having an alarm clock that slaps
me in the face with a rubber hand
and what I'm doing now is still
identifying everyday problems but I'm
actually trying to like product design
my way out of it what in your experience
was the funniest thing is it violence
like the hand slapping you food eating
is there is or is it just a case about
it funniest
is no I think it's more like the proud
parent machine it's not violent it
doesn't there's no nothing it's just
emotional and it's kind of
a commentary on this fraught
relationship that we sometimes have with
our parents and their pride of us
sometimes every time
sometimes my dad visited like last week
and he was like I just want to say I'm
so proud of you and for the built life
you've built for yourself and that was
really sweet
yeah I'll put that on the back of my
autobiography too yeah it's not your
fault Simone it's not your fault that
stuff is my fault
what was the longest one to complete for
the Shady robots that you remember
because he spent on a few of them you
spent quite a long time
[Music]
which is also inspiring when you take so
long in a project yeah I think um
can even the more like fun Whimsical
Department rather than shitty robots I
built recently
um this music box so like a small music
box that kind of has a barrel with
little spikes and it plays the song but
I did a large version of that that pops
a sheet of bubble wrap and then like
plays tones into a pan flute so yeah you
can actually program it to play
different songs
that one kicked my butt in so many
creative ways that it was such a pain I
think that is probably the like
weird funny project that's taken me the
longest and like the biggest engineering
effort where's the all sound coming from
so if you it all came from me realizing
that if you pop bubble wrap and you pop
it right in front of the opening of a
pamphlet or like one of the pipes you
can have it play different tones
so that's what it does so I built this
music instrument off of that okay if
it's okay can you describe some
something like how it works some of the
the technical details here yeah so
basically I mean one of the
things that I worked with
um as of a year and a half back I hired
an engineer stew so we were
collaborating on it
um but a big issue that we had was
feeding in the bubble wrap
sheet and like making sure that it feeds
them straight and doesn't get skewed
because you need to make like the
popping feet which is where you program
this Barrel to pop different bubbles
need to be so perfectly aligned on the
bubble of the bubble wrap for it to pop
in the right location so there's a
feeder for the bubble wrap that's a
challenge and then you have to have a
barrel with the little baby feet on it
yeah that pops the ball around why is it
so exciting that Barrel was a pain as
well I had to get a like this rotary
setup for my CNC and yeah it was it was
a lot of work
um but that was really fun and it's just
like
this is probably my
favorite
privilege of my job is that I can
go down any Rabbit Hole I think find
interesting did you have a lot of
Joy from popping the
yeah the bubbles a lot of self-soothing
and like I got to spend I think I spent
a week trying to figure out the best
material to pop bubble wrap with because
if you have two if you kind of put them
to to through uh or through if you put a
sheet of bubble wrap through two rigid
tubes the air kind of just escapes from
one side of the bubble into the other so
what I realized was that if you have a
squishy material like kind of a yoga mat
material in between it it actually it
prevents that and Pops it a lot more
reliably but like increasing the pop
reliability was a huge effort as well
you have to pop a squishy thing with
another squishy because you don't need a
lot of force yeah like you just need it
to not the air to not be able to escape
anywhere wow but then also we had there
was different qualities of bubble wrap
where there was a lot of transference
between different bubbles so instead of
the bubble popping it would just seep
the air and to a neighboring bubble and
that like membrane would kind of so you
know I I just like getting to spend
weeks on weeks of just studying bubble
wrap did you ever think about like
publishing academic work on Bubble Wrap
no
wouldn't that be epic because nobody's
done this I bet you nobody's done
squishing it squishing material on
Squishy versus squishy
for popping I bet somebody has but you
know I I always I thought I was gonna go
into Academia like I was such an
ambitious student I loved school I
actually applied to MIT but then I
pulled out because I was like no I don't
want to do it
um but now I realize it's really good
that I didn't because I'm too much of a
spouse too much of the spaz now I'm
distracted I'm thinking there must be
papers about when you have two bubbles
yeah you need to know the physics of two
bubbles when you have two bubbles
colliding
one will pop first
and there has to be good models of that
but that's very that has to do with
chemistry and whatever the uh the
material the ball was made from but then
no there's materials in here this guy
somebody must understand bubble wrap
deeply
like deeply
so I'm just going to take a quick
restroom break because uh Lex is on his
own train now and I'm just gonna leave
yeah you actually don't need to go to
the restroom okay
so I'm going to insert like a two hour
uh instructional here with like a
Blackboard right it's the skill
the skill store it's I
throw you any topic and you could just
go on about it I don't know if I have
that skill I just
okay
um Bubble on Bubble
an interaction
so you did mention
um MIT uh you went to college for
physics for one year and you dropped out
what do you learn from that
who do you think should and shouldn't go
to college hmm
I think first of all you shouldn't
listen to me
um
that should be the name of your
autobiography
I
you know I realized that I was there for
the wrong reasons I had this deep I got
completely like starting to get grades
in school which in Sweden at that time
we started getting in at eighth grade so
when I was 14 it just kind of hijacked
my brain because I realized that I could
put a number on how smart I was and I
got obsessed with it and I
wanted to study mechanical engineering
because I was like I like machines
but then physics was kind of the hardest
thing you could do when I had this like
deep need to prove to myself that I was
smart so I started studying physics
realized I wasn't that smart
I realized or I mean just mostly that I
like I love math but I don't love math
hours a day yeah and also I think I am a
generalist through and through like I'm
decent at a fair amount of things but
definitely not a specialist and anyways
and this it was such a specialist type
of area
um that I felt like the other parts of
my brain kind of just dwindled and died
so I think I think most of all if people
are thinking about going to college and
especially if you're here in the States
and it's so fucking expensive
really
okay there's two there's two things I
want to do one is like actually go to a
workplace where people are doing the job
that you think you want to do if you
want to become a doctor like be at a
hospital and like try to see how doctors
work and if you actually like it because
I feel like people have a lot of ideas
of what it's going to be like and it
just doesn't match with reality and then
I think when people figure out what they
want to do there's kind of
that's two separate questions or there's
two questions that you can split out of
that one is like what do you actually
want to do that for me
for the last 10 years is building stuff
but then there's a second part to that
question which is what context do you
want to do that do you want to build
stuff at a startup or at a big
Corporation Do you want to build stuff
for an art gallery or for the movies or
for YouTube and
I think that's often like people only
learn how to answer the first question
but then it's like the context means as
much because I was building stuff at
punch through design and I wasn't
getting that like deep fulfillment like
I felt like
I wasn't fully using myself and like
hitting all of my gears because I just
wasn't that motivated about building
stuff for other people and I changed the
context and everything changed
and so sometimes you do need to consider
resume and stuff like that depending on
the
but some I think people consider that
way too much especially in modern times
I feel like
you don't need to go to college just for
the resume
I feel like the biggest benefit of
college I mean there's a bunch but one
is just do hard things but you could do
hard things anywhere
but
um some people need to be I was probably
one of those people
to be forced to do hard things and
um the other is to meet fascinating
humans from all walks of life
that are pursuing they have all kinds of
different Passions
and allows you to learn
depending on the major you can be you
can learn generally and you can search
if you're doing it efficiently about
what actually inspires you and the other
thing is the the resume thing yeah But
ultimately you don't need college to
find your passion to run with it I mean
I mean I have so much College fomo
though like I think it's I chose
a different set of experiences and when
I applied to MIT I was I think I was 24.
because I was like oh maybe I should
become an electrical engineer because I
really liked Electronics but then I
remember seeing that the average age was
18 and I was like fuck no I can't hang
out or like be in a room filled with 18
year olds who are smarter than me yeah
um so I think I definitely like missed
the Train on having that experience but
at the same time I did so many other
things and I chose other experiences and
I wouldn't trade them
but I still like I mean I'll go to on a
campus and I'll be like oh yeah but I
think it's also because I have a dreamy
idea of what it is because I never get
to do it and practice fully exactly it's
the fomo yeah
huh yeah a lot of people really struggle
with that burden they'll they'll go it
doesn't matter how long you go through
if you don't go all the way to the PhD
you a lot of people have the fomo it
doesn't it's a silly silly silly little
notion I think
because I think you should be doing
college or school until you find
something that lights your heart aflame
where you're like fuck yes I want to do
this yeah and run with it I mean you can
you can find that in other contexts as
well I've
found it yeah but yeah but it is a
buffet of experiences
that you can have
what about what was the most fun robot
to make or um musical
artistic creation
where the process was the most fun oh
they're all painful in different ways so
pain yeah you find pain fun
no but it's it definitely
the pride of make getting to pull
something off or like managing to pull
something off even when it was really
difficult is
is very satisfying what was the
difficult thing that you pulled off you
were like yeah this is cool I like
working on jigsaw puzzles but I don't
like how much table space they take up
because I like just have one big table
where I can do it and that's also my
dining table
so I made this mechanical table where
you can switch between two table tops
and that was an incredibly painful
project and I'm really happy with the
outcome and like so proud that I managed
to pull it off how does this wish table
tops it's Tambor mechanism so like
Tambor like you'll have on like old
record player
um like it's these like thin Slots of
wood with fabric on the back and you can
kind of get them to go around curves so
basically one of