Kind: captions
Language: en
that's all that matters that he got
there that he got to the place to act
like a fighter to to do what we want him
to do to be ready to persevere to go
beyond the Comfort level to do another
round he didn't want to damn righty
didn't want to but he knew we want him
to and he knew in order to pass the test
he had to do it he goes now it's going
to be your job to get him in the gym
make him mentally stronger make him face
things and teach them how to slip
punches and create holes and fill those
freaking holes with devastating punches
this cuss with punches with bad
intentions the following is a
conversation with Teddy Atlas a
legendary and a times controversial
boxing trainer and commentator when I
was going to this conversation with
Teddy I was ready to talk boxing styles
matches techniques tactics and his
analysis of individual Fighters like
Mike Tyson Michel Moore klitschkos usk
petkin lenko Triple G Canelo Muhammad
Ali shag Leonard Haggler Duran Floyd and
on and on and on like I said I came
ready to talk boxing but I stayed for
something even bigger The Shakespearean
human story of Teddy Atlas cust tomato
and Mike Tyson it's a story about
loyalty betrayal fear and greatness it's
a story where no nobody is perfect and
everybody is human to summarize in the
early 80s young trainer Teddy Atlas
worked with his mentor custado in
training the young boxing prodige now a
boxing Legend Mike Tyson Mike was a
troubled youth arrested over 40 times
and at the age 15 he was sexually
inappropriate with Teddy's 11-year-old
niece in response to this Teddy put a 38
caliber handgun to Tyson ear and told
him to never touch his family again or
he would kill him if he did for this
custado kicked Teddy out why well that's
complicated in part I think to help
minimize the chance of Mike Tyson who
cuss legally adopted uh would be taken
away by the state and with him the dream
of developing one of the greatest boxers
of all time of course that summary
doesn't capture the full complexity of
human nature and human drama involved
here for that you have to listen to this
conversation the things said and the
things left unsaid the pain in Teddy's
voice the contradictions of love and
anchor that permeate his stories and his
philosophy on
life like I said I came to talk about
boxing and stayed to talk about
life this conversation will stay with me
for a long
time the people close to you the people
you trust
the people you love are everything and
if they betray you and break your heart
forgive them forgive yourself and try
again happy holidays everyone I love you
all this is Alex freedan podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Teddy
Atlas you wrote In the book that your
father had a big influence on your life
what lessons have you learned about life
from your father when you ask that
question you
know I remember C Mod when I was with
him up in cat for all those years he
used to say to me Teddy you you learned
through
osmosis I believe there's true to that
if I know what osmosis is
and and I but it sounds good yeah yeah
but I learned through osmosis with my
father he he wasn't a big talker he was
you you know he was a doer and I when
you're around someone who lives a
certain kind of life and does certain
things uh it penetrates he was a doctor
he was I I'm going to sound like an
idiot right now because I'm being a son
uh but he was the greatest diagonistic
doctor yeah I mean if I say I ever knew
what's that mean yeah you know what I
mean are you a doctor you know you know
what I mean like what does that mean but
other people have told me this yeah like
just legendary stories he would do house
calls and he help people and like you
said a lot of people have spoken about
the impact he's had in their life he
built two hospitals and he he built a
hospital before the verado bridge in New
York uh connecting Brooklyn to stown and
he he built it so people could get
proper hospital care they couldn't
afford it period and um everybody looked
at him as uh eccentric yeah nice yeah
because because he he would literally
sneak patience not sneak him in he was
Dr Atlas he could do what he wanted to a
certain extent but he would bring
patients in without administering
putting through Administration so there
was no charge because you know they they
didn't have anything they were Street
people they were I I remember being my
only way to be with my father was to go
on house calls yeah or to go to the
office there's no you know and so I went
on house calls with and he did house
call by the way till he was 80 and and
$3 I mean it was better than like
McDonald's you know what I mean I mean
the deal you $ and you got medicine you
got
everything and but he used to right
around the holidays there was just
certain things that I didn't understand
but I understood later where we would
just drive certain areas and he just
over open his door he would pick up
these home and you know I'm I'm 10 years
old yeah you know move over move over
you know mhm and it's just you him and a
homeless guy a couple yeah a couple yeah
whatever he can fit in three four you
know whatever it was that's a big heart
and then he took him to the hospital
dropped him so you know I would ask
questions after it was all over with I'd
say that they're sick he goes well not
not in a way whether you put them in the
hospital MH so he said yeah and he tried
to explain things to me you know he
would try he didn't talk much unless you
asked him something yeah that kind of
works and you know don't talk someone
ask something and he he he explained to
me that he said um I said well why you
put him in the hospital then I you know
and of course the sickness was through
alcohols but um why why you put him he's
it wasn't an alcohol rehab you know so
why you put him and it wasn't for the
purpose to dry out he wasn't trying to
cure them yeah let's put that for before
we we anointed him for saood you know
Like by Teddy at so I was like we we
finally get to the point why you put him
in there yeah well because it's the
holidays all right why you put them in
there well the holidays you know are
good for certain people at badf
fathers and um and it was always before
the holidays it was before Christmas
before whatever and and um New Years
whatever and so I said
why and he said
because they remind people certain
people of what they don't
have that you other people uh enjoy the
holidays because of what they have
family you know whatever and it reminds
them their mind is that that's pretty
profound yeah and and
then I I don't know remember because he
didn't use the word suicide but I I got
it like he he basically I forget how he
said it but like I just got it I don't
know how I got as most I don't know but
I just got it like so they don't hurt
themselves that that's what came across
way I don't think he ever articulated
that ever verbalized that but yeah they
don't hurt themselves so and well how
how does that work well just basically
they're going to be around people
they're not going to be alone they're
going to be around people they're going
to get fed they're going to be warm
right and it's going to be for three
days two three days whatever and it's
basically it's it's a bridge so and the
the funny thing as a 10-year-old I
wanted
to I want to be connected to him so I I
I enlisted myself in a job when when
when he used to drop them off he he
would take them get them in right and
um and then the thing that I know again
he didn't say nothing but I you notice
things and if you care enough you don't
you don't notice nothing if you don't
care but if you care if it's important
you notice and this guy was important to
me I just was I didn't know what a hero
was no clue I love Mickey Mano I love
Willie Mays I love I I love Muhammad Ali
I I I never ever connected in my mind as
Heroes never my
father I I didn't connect it that way
but he looking back now looking back he
was he was my first connection to a hero
the two of you ever talk about how much
you love each
other
one thing that was uh not allowed the
the greatest memory I have my father
shown me love was we were down in
Florida at an airport and and um we were
I was born in Miami don't ask me I was
passing through and the rest of my
family is born in New York St now and so
I was supposed to go back with him right
and I wanted to stay with my mother for
whatever reason and so he you know he
of course conceited to it and he's he's
okay you know whatever and very quiet
very and there's a man who never showed
emotion to anyone I mean for the most
you know really all of a
sudden he just turned and kissed me on
the forehead and left and I was I was
like that's different yeah you still
remember that yeah like that's weird you
lost them 30 years ago how how did that
change
you it made me realize that some of the
deals I used to make for god um more
than
realistic when I was a kid I used to
make deals with God let me die before my
father and then you know you get older
you have kids you're blessed
why did you make that deal you know what
I mean
like thank you for not taking me up on
it yeah thanks
yeah you know oh yeah you miss him I
missed him in moments when I'd like to
know what to
do and um you know I I remember when I
would driving for the one of house calls
he didn't listen to music
he was a guy he read books to his when
he got older he read books to uh blood
vess was broken his
eyes he only read non-fiction books
science he loves science um Wars um
generals I mean I cheated on a couple uh
book reports because of him because I
didn't do the reading of the book the
night before I had a freaking uh book
report to put in that I got a book
report to do on St the war of Stalingrad
yeah really the war of Stalingrad and
who the freak could tell you where you
get an A I got an A yeah he I just wrote
what he told me told me generals he told
me times he told me strategy he told me
about the winter that came and destroyed
the Germans and and and the Soviets were
tougher than and the told Soviets were
tougher than the Germans and you know
the Germans picked on the wrong opponent
yeah I was already in the boxing
business yeah I didn't know it yeah I
didn't even know it yeah matchmaking
very important yeah they they they
mismatched they did they made a mistake
with the picking the opponent and so
when we would be driving in the car my
father would be in a
trance and Dad he wasn't ignoring me at
all he was just with his thoughts M he
was he was wherever he wasn't even here
in the radio no more
I always wonder where he was I did so I
asked him one day and just so we're
driving I said I want to know so I said
dad what do you think when you're
basically in this place that I know
you're somewhere yeah what what do you
what do you where are you what are you
seeing I actually said what do you
see and he said to me I see what could
be I see what could be and I'm like oh
all right I got to ask you when did you
discover boxing what when did you first
fall in love with
boxing when it saved me how did it save
you I I was I was a stupid violent kid
that was angry not exactly know why he
was angry uh I'd fit in real good in
today's society because there's a lot of
angry kids out there that I don't think
they know why they're angry
I was I was just out there getting
fights and um I got this stupid thing
from that can you tell the story of how
you got that I was just running around
doing stupid things bad things I heard
people some people physically but I
heard I heard my my my
family you know that's BS you only hurt
yourself you know that that's a good way
of you know Alibi in
it um you know to but it if at some
point the truth usually Finds Its way
I'd like it to look like it was just
hurt myself but it wasn't obviously so I
was just out on the streets with kids
that didn't grow up in the neighborhood
I grew up I grew up in a neighborhood
where father was a doctor and um I
walked down the street the funny thing
was down down the hill was a very tough
neighborhood called Stapleton and most
of the people down there on the corners
wish they could get up there and I I
wished I could get down the hill so I
went down the hill and I hung out with
all these friends that became lifelong
friends and
uh I um I gravitated to that because I I
figured out later a little bit but you
know I wanted family we were disjointed
family we were you know my father was a
doctor he didn't have time for nothing
but being a doctor you know uh I think
when you gred something you sacrific
something too
you know when you're really great at
something so great that maybe God Made
You great and and you're too great for
your own good and and I don't know it
took me to these
stupid dangerous places dangerous for me
but dangerous for other people too
because I got to the point where I was
doing robberies on the street I was I
was fighting everybody and and you know
what the most dangerous part about it
was and I came to this realization on my
own all by myself I I figured out um I
was really as D you know these kids from
the project some of them they got
nothing you first of all I learned you
don't have to be poor to be
poor you don't have to be deprived of
certain things to be
deprived and or because you at least to
think you're
deprived and I was pouring way that I
didn't have the only thing I wanted to
have him so
here
I here I am where I'm out there doing
these things and what made me more I was
more dangerous than some of these
Psychopaths well I was a psychopath too
I guess the way I was behaving but some
of these Psychopaths that really had
nothing um you know really would you
know they obviously would kill you I I
was dangerous in the almost in the same
way but for a different reason I know
it's ridiculous what I'm about to tell
you but I figured it
out cuz I felt it I thought I was on a
righteous path I thought I had a
right because it was going to get me my
father
back why why I mean you know you're a
scientist you couldn't figure this one
out
because all the people that had them
were injured people fractured people
screwed up people in some ways but but
hurt damaged people
so if I get
damaged I'll get
him so I was on a
crusade really a righteous Crusade where
I thought it was okay I had permission I
had permission to do these terrible
things quite frankly and to fight
everyone and do I I did and then it it
came almost to a
crash doing all that you know winding up
in Reicher Island like an
idiot not understanding the damage I did
to this poor man that you know he um he
was a great doctor and he's got to see
his son and hear about you know what I
mean
like
God I I was out on that day you know
with with the guys that I grew up with
now you know the guys from the projects
from the as I described and I was with
one of them who he he's dead now so I
was I was with him and we
were we we were in a neighborhood the
neighborhood we grew up that that I hung
out and and they and he grew up in Billy
he came from the from the project and we
got into a thing where we cut somebody
cut us off we cut them off you know
jumped out to
fight and um you know it turned out
there's like five or six of them and two
of us and
um you know we fought you know right on
the side right there only about a block
from where I used to hang out and um
maybe a block and a half and right in
front of like a Spanish Bodega and uh it
really does happen in slow motion I
actually saw the guy I was fighting the
guys that that I had to fight and then
all of a sudden I was able to get one
guy out of the way a little bit and um I
really I noticed the guy go into his
pocket and um I knew why he was going in
his pocket you know
and when he came out of his pocket I
knew what it was right away it was weird
because in the neighborhood guys used to
hang out they were they were into this
you know they get into feds like right
on the streets and they went to at that
time they went to this cheap knife but
it was they thought it was we thought it
was cool uh it was a007 and and um and
the cool thing whatever was that you
could flick it you could learn and I
learned how to flick you know but I
never carried a knife but but when my
friends would have it I would just you
learn how you could flick it open not a
switch plate but flick it with your
wrist and I was like here I am in the
middle of this freaking fight and all of
a sudden oh it's A7 you know and and and
so I'm like I you got to make a decision
you know
and I got to splits I can either not do
nothing which wasn't didn't seem like a
great you
know a great option um I couldn't run
away what
not because you got to live with
yourself afterwards and and and that's
more difficult to live with than
whatever it is at that second because
that don't go away you couldn't live
with yourself running away it just don't
go away that thing not nothing to do
with being brave yeah nothing to do with
being brave really it it's got to do
with just
common sense in life that for for
me whatever you're dealing with it's
over it's done like like okay deal with
it good or bad whatever but you you do
that you know that other thing you you
you're gone
um you you that never that never ends
this thing ends memory of you being
let's say a coward in that moment that
never ends the only thing I had at that
point in my life in my St
mind was a reputation yeah that I would
do stand up to certain things that that
was like and that for me was was worth
something whatever because I didn't feel
any Worth to anything else that was the
only thing I felt a connection of wor to
so so stood your ground I say no I made
a decision yes I stood my ground but I I
actually things do slow down they do and
I actually said it's A7 he's got got to
flick it you know I didn't say but he's
got to flick it I got a split second
either like I said either I do nothing
whatever or I get to him before he gets
it flicked I went to get to it before he
got flicked and and I and I just as I
got close to him I I did him a favor I I
I walked right into a counter
punch because I I I cooperated with him
I went right to him and and just as I he
he he he practiced more than I did with
the7 apparently because he was like boom
boom and
and anyway what did you think what did
you think that happened that was all
slow motion did you think he might
die yeah well not immediately took me a
minute I'm a slow learner I put my hand
up right wouldn't you I guess so mhm and
it went into my face yeah and that was
it it was gooey it was warm and gooey
and I was
like I don't know I I don't know what
this means but I don't want to know but
I think I know and
and and
um did you think about your dad in that
moment no you know what I thought about
him was
um you don't know who anyone isn't to
DET test it and um I learned that cuz
used to tell me but I learned it uh he
say you I remember one time C I was a 17
18 year old kid up there and you know
thought I was whatever I thought I was
and he said you got a lot of friends and
um I said yeah because you know I was on
the street hanging out with 100 kids at
night sometimes on the street corner so
I was like I don't know too many people
that hung out with 100 Kids on the
street on a corner on a Friday Saturday
night and um I was like yeah I got a lot
of friends he go
really really he said
um how about if I told you you might not
have any most likely you don't have any
and he
goes and then he just started this thing
he said everyone's got to be tested
you me everyone cuz you don't know about
nobody to they tested he goes you know
nothing he goes you know nothing until
you know until something happens to test
if they were really a friend and then he
told me this story about a guy a guy
came to him and he was upset what are
you upset about he goes I'm upset
because I I I just uh I just lost a
friend uh you know after 20 years of
friendship we're not friends no more so
Co looks at him he goes
let me ask you a question what what made
you think you have a friends with him
now the guy gets insulted and goes did
you hear me he goes I I just told you 20
years I've been friends with this guy
why would you say that to me he said
well I say it again what makes you think
he was your friend he
goes whatever happened in the 20 years
other than chasing girls because figured
that one out fast chasing girls and
drinking together
um and whatever else you're doing out on
the street whatever gave you the
inclination that he was a friend yeah he
goes whatever when did he risk himself
to be your friend yeah when was it
dangerous to be your friend when was the
Friendship tested when was it
uncomfortable to be your friend and you
know what the guy said you can figure it
out you're a scientist he
said he said
today yeah and and and today came for me
and today today today today kept coming
for me today and and that day my friend
Billy it turned out well I was fighting
these whatever five six guys and where
was Billy he was on a
roof he was on a roof he was on a roof
he was my best
friend and and um so anyway they take me
to the hospital and here's the thing
with my father but one thing Billy did
do for me when he got off the roof thank
God he did he he dragged me dragged me
into this Bodega laid me on the floor
and started putting
towels right and the towels I vaguely
remember this they filled up with blood
yeah I mean completely like drenched
like like you put them under a shower
and and um I Heard the B owner screaming
screaming you know like you know
whatever and everyone's screaming and
there chaos and I'm like I don't know
I'm I'm
calm weird I'm like real
calm and
um I'm just in this
place's
calm and all of a sudden I hear Billy
he's screaming call the call the
ambulance call the you know and nobody's
doing nothing everyone's Frozen I'm
starting to understand already people
get Frozen in situations people the fear
fear fear fear fear just paralyzes
people and um and I was going into a
fear business I was learning I was learn
I was getting a a learning early PhD and
and yeah and all of a sudden genius
Billy genius
really Street kid yeah he jumps up on a
freaking counter jumps over the counter
grabs the phone calls 911 says the cop's
been shot and forget about it yeah it
was crazy all I remember after that I'll
tell you the couple things I remember
lights being put onto a stretcher
bounced around you know rushed I felt
everyone's
anxiety except mine I had none but I
felt everyone's anxiety everyone's fear
like was all around me it was like wow
this is interesting this kind of I know
that's stupid but like w this is
interesting wow you really have an eye
for fear that's fascinating you're
really studying it well they I had no
choice I I got introduced in the crash
course and they they put me in ambulance
and this this is what I remember to your
point I'm sorry I took so long to get to
it I am although I'll probably do it
again before this conversation's over
but all about the journey yeah we'll get
there we'll get there pops um so I I
hear the cops say I we might lose him
and I'm like laughing to myself I'm not
laughing because I'm not again I'm not
John Wayne John Wayne would have left
but I'm
like
lose you guys are stupid you know I
didn't say that but I'm like lose me I
my father's the greatest doctor in the
freaking world yeah there's nothing to
worry about you people all you people
are all uptight and whacked out here
with with
fear and and there's nothing to worry
about Dr alas is my father so anyway so
they're they're they're taking me to the
and they said we don't have time I hear
a couple things I remember don't have
time take them to and they take me to
the US public health hospital Marine
hospital was called at the time but US
public health and it's in Stapleton so
it's close thank God so they're taking
me and I hear them on the radio you know
saying this stuff about we go to we got
to move we got to move and
um I start
talking and that tell me don't
talk but I like to talk a lot you know
and I'm so again fear there's no fear
when the fear's been
removed it's the only time you're really
free in life and I know that sounds
absurd but really it is it's the only
time you really free in life I was when
you're close to death when you're devoid
of of of things that that normally hold
you back that normally influence you in
ways that that you know that are
not of the influence that always
positive influence where you're where
you're in a pure place where you're
you're in a purely free place from all
inhibitions from fear from anxiety from
from Joy Joy can screw you up and you're
free from all these things and I'm in
this place just in the back of an
ambulance you're free I'm yeah I'm I'm
like I said just give me Dr Atlas and
they say we don't have time no no no no
no you don't
you have to get Dr Atlas you have to get
him this was the damn it this was the
you know what I mean I finally freaking
hit the number and I'm not getting paid
and then all of a sudden I'm out how
many they well I think it was 400 200
inside 200 outside or whatever it was a
lot hey look after after after 50 it the
number doesn't matter no more right
whatever 60 70 80 90 whatever you know
so I was fortunate I was fortunate and
of course they I was fortunate they told
me afterwards that miss my juggler
literally by like like a centimeter I
mean whatever and um so then um then we
wouldn't be having this conversation
obviously I'm glad you made it yeah
that's another I'm kind of glad too and
and it just missed my eye which thank
God it's bad enough I have a scar
matching me with a patch I
mean I mean it's enough that I got this
freaking
thing and um and look it goes all the
way you know I mean it's you know it's
it's pretty long and
um I don't know I was out and then
somehow I sensed like they had the
curtain closed you know and it's amazing
how Vivid this
is and the curtains Clos and I see a
shadow I I felt the presence I did and I
felt him he's a he's a powerful guy and
I felt him and I just see like a shadow
you know and all of a sudden uh the the
curtain gets pushed back and I can't
really see it's dark and I'm you know
out of it but not completely out of it
and um pushes the curtain back comes
in and his hand even though it's all
bandag you know whatever but his hand
surveys
it felt
safe and um it felt it felt warm and
safe I was happy and um he got there you
know did he say something yeah yeah
remember I gave you a little bit of
introduction to my father right you know
him now a little bit right yeah yeah
what did he say about the job he said he
just said this is what he said I
remember to this day what he said yeah
that that I do remember I don't know if
it was six or five people but this I do
remember yeah he said they did a good
job job you're going to have a scar the
rest of your
life and he
left oh man they did a good
job you mentioned C Cato legendary
trainer and you also mentioned it turned
out he really cared about you in the
book you write about a testimony he gave
I was hoping I could read it cuz it
speaks to your character it speaks to
his it's just powerful the testimony
goes your honor I realize you might not
know much about me but I've spent my
whole life developing young men as a
boxing manager I trained two world
champions heavyweight champion Floyd
Patterson and light heavyweight champion
Jose
Torres I've also helped a lot of other
young boys straighten out their lives
and build character I know things about
Teddy Atlas this court doesn't know
things you won't find on his arrest
record record this boy has character he
has loyalty he'll hurt himself before
he'll let down a friend these qualities
are rare and they shouldn't be lost he's
made mistakes we've all made mistakes
but I've come to know this boy and if we
lose him we'll be losing someone who
could help a lot of people please don't
take this young boy's future away he
could be someone special let's not lose
him
please
those are powerful words from a powerful
man uh what have you learned about life
from from uh Mr
custado he gave me a quote and he drove
into my head I became his guy you know
he loved me I loved
him he he said to
me
Teddy no matter what a man said is is
what he does in the end that he intended
to do all
along that's what I learned from
CZ rest of it is
BS and
um a lot of people
um say things you just have to give them
a minute
to let them show you
eventually what they really meant by it
I also learned from him that
uh everyone's
afraid because his way of saying another
great saying you'll get kick out of this
uh anyone who's in a situation where
fear should be prevalent where fear is
actually necessary to survive the
situation anyone who says that they're
not afraid they're one of two things
they're either a liar or or they should
go to a doctor find out what the freak's
wrong with
them he was right about
that you know we live in a a taboo
Society where that word to a certain
extent is taboo because it invokes
weakness you know we we
uh we are just layers of what we saw and
learned since we were kids we all are
were products of those layers I learned
that on my own well through some help at
the end of the day
um you
know
fear people will find their way of
avoiding that term so they use the word
anxiety they use the word you know
butterflies apprehension you know a
million different
right words I find all those other words
to be cousins of fear and and fear fear
causes a lot of things in life it it
causes a lot of problems uh and and it
also solves a lot of problems without it
uh we couldn't be
great if we are great if we ever have a
chance to be great um or at least to
Aspire to be great how how does Fear
connect to Greatness that's a that's a
profound statement without fear we
wouldn't be able to be
great yeah you couldn't be great without
fear because fear allows her to
be
brave the most important word for me in
this whole you know conversation right
neighborhood would be
selfishness uh and it allows you to be
for a moment less
selfish one of the things I learned I
guess partly on my own
everyone thinks my greatest teacher was
cus he was a great teacher Mentor my
greatest teacher was my father the one
who never
talked and um I realized um one of the
things to be better towards
great um is if you can
be submit less than we submit see one of
the things that I'm afraid of one of the
things I was always
quitting in my business that it's kind
of not a good thing mhm every business I
think yours yours is just more uh clear
yeah it it hurts more
and in the moment at least yeah in the
moment but you're right 100% because
some things hurt for a long time
afterwards and um something like regret
regret is the worst thing in the world
because it's a solitary
sentence and and man man that's a
powerful phrase regret is a solitary
sentence so boy I you're full of good
lines you know it wasn't easy to uh to
to accumulate them it was it was a
little bit hurtful but so uh submit less
because we submit every day and if we
can get to a place where we submit or
compromise ourselves less
we we'll get to a better place you know
again one of the one of the words for me
that attaches to things that give you
that wind up hurting you in life and
have hurt me in life uh one of those
boogey men words is the word of
convenience that's attach to everything
you know PE people
people disappoint you not because they
want to disappoint you or let you or
betray you because they want to betray
you they do it because it's more
convenient to do mhm than than the other
thing an old man once told me he said to
me I was trying to I was trying to
rationalize something I was trying to
make something an excuse for something I
was trying to make myself better than I
was I was trying to say it was
okay and and he just looked at me and he
he he liked me and he said
Teddy ain't no such thing as being a
little
pregnant
like yeah because either you're pregnant
or you're not
pregnant either you're real or you're
not real either
you're you know truthful you're not
truthful either you're tough or you're
not tough either you're either you're
you know committed or you're not
committed either you're in or you're
out that applies a lot of things yeah
including
loyalty that's quite a statement but the
life blood of humanity for me is loyalty
um it's it's what goes through the veins
of uh you know everything has to have
some veins in some form and if Humanity
has veins what runs through the veins of
humanity instead of blood to keep it
alive is
loyalty without loyalty without loyalty
We Dead We freaking Walk we're vessels I
never understood what a ghost ship was
you know what as I got old I know what a
ghost ship is it's people it's people
that are empty MH they got no
loyalty therefore they got no
Humanity therefore they got
nothing therefore freak them freak them
because and and and you know why they
don't have loyalty convenience and you
know
why because it takes it's hard to be
loyal it's actually hard mhm I'll be a
son of a gun yeah you tell me yeah it
sounds great give it to me give it to me
paint me with it yeah it's great yeah
I'm loyal I'm yeah I'm I'm yeah this is
good I'm ready I'm on that team I'm
ready put me in coach I'm ready okay now
you have to uh you're going to have to
get hurt here what do you mean get hurt
oh well it's going to be painful I mean
to be loyal you know you you're going to
be in danger because the person that you
committed your loyalty to for a reason
because obviously he did something in
your life ever whatever
um you're actually going to get hurt to
be loyal to them you're actually G to
hold on a minute wait hold on a minute
coach
um hold on call time out here um let me
think about this coach I'm I'm I might
need more more practice I'm not ready
for the game I'm not ready to go in the
game yet give me a little more practice
coach and it hurts to be loyal it
freaking hurts but without loyalty
we're we're ghost ships we got no
strength we got nothing yeah we got
nothing we we got we got nothing I agree
with you in a deep fundamental sense but
there's uh pain that comes with that I
have to ask you
to uh introspect on this part of your
life because of your value for
loyalty uh as people know you and
custado
uh trained young Mike
Tyson and the interaction there uh
between the three of you led to the
three of you parting
ways given your value for loyalty can
you tell the full story of uh what led
up to this and
maybe the pain you
felt from
that
I it was if I guess it was the second
time in my life I felt
betrayed um the first time was
when I
um you I was whatever young
17 and I got
arrested I was with all these older guys
tough guys
whatever and um
supposedly and uh the detective
separated us that's what they do and um
you know they they asked me who did
whatever who's gun this that you know
all that the particulars of obviously
what we did and you know it was me and
um they said you sure you don't want to
change that you don't want to because
your friends changed it and and these
cops they were nasty but they were cops
they were the way you know you're going
to wind up in Rikers with and they're
going to be doing this to you and I
won't even say the things because then
why say them you know figure it out but
you know they're trying to get what
they're trying to get and you know you
want to change it and um
no and but I felt very betrayed you know
yeah and um especially when I was
standing in the in the cell in rikus
looking at the airplanes leave luati
airport and then hoping I was on one you
know I was making like a deal with God
said let me be on one of those planes
and let it crash I'll take a shot was
part of you proud that you didn't give
up your friends no because I didn't
understand what proud was I didn't
understand nothing I just understood
that um rules are rules you're just
loyal and that's it I didn't even know
there was an option I didn't think there
I know the cops said you could do this
but that there was no option my father
never had an
option but the the Betrayal the private
betrayal was like and so when
cuz we were Partners me and cus yeah cus
was
retired this stupid kid goes up there
and all of a sudden I start training
Fighters first I won the gloves cuz put
me in the gloves I won the gloves that I
had injury whatever but bottom line is I
still want to fight I want to turn pro I
want to fight that was the plan and
um and cuz had a different plan
cuz cuz was like you can't and he had it
set up a little bit whatever without
getting into it hey he did me a favor
and I I'd like to think he knew he was
doing me a favor and you know what I do
think he was he was doing himself a
little bit one too but but he was doing
it for the greater cause because he
believed in this thing of boxing he he
believed that it changed Liv he believed
that it was worthwhile he believed that
there was a power to it beyond the left
hook the big picture of boxing yeah he
believed in it yeah he believed that To
Be A Champion you had to be special you
had to be smart you had to have
character you had that you had to be a
better person and that you couldn't make
a champion if you didn't make him a
better person first and and that that
this you know this could strengthen
people the sport could strengthen people
in those ways
so he he was married to it and he he was
old and he needed there was no one in
the gym it was
empty and it was above a police station
which was crazy and he needed an air to
the throne he needed to pass it on to
someone and he saw something and all of
a sudden he said he saw that my career
as a box was less important than having
me become his air to the Drone and
become his trainer his man his guy to
continue that we could do a lot more for
him and for for for everyone not just
for him but for everyone it was more
like to keep it going like it couldn't
die it couldn't die and the cousin was
afraid to it would die with him and he
committed his whole life to it he didn't
get married because of boxing so he
didn't so he saw me as as you know the
the little bit of you know the seed to
plant for for more things to grow and
before that plant died and so he all of
a sudden he she came fight and I had
people tell me that I could go somewhere
else and fight M and I could MH but I
couldn't right because I'd be disloyal
loyalty is everything yeah so I couldn't
leave cus yeah and he kind of knew that
and and so you know I couldn't leave him
and he said you have an ability to teach
he said knowledge means
nothing he said see these pranica he had
pran pranica encyclopedia uh the whole
set in in our library he said you see
these yeah I see them all the knowledge
of the world whatever uh is in these all
right means nothing if you don't have
somebody to convey it to people
otherwise it just sits on a bookshelf it
looks good he go you have the ability to
convey knowledge to people you're a
teacher you were born to be a teacher
you'd lessen Yourself by only being a
champion fighter because you'd only take
care of one person you could take care
of all kinds of people and you could do
this and you could do that and you could
do this so we go on this Venture took a
minute cuz I didn't believe him at first
but finally we I am I'm there I'm
training
Fighters and then he he gets me to buy
in and I I was a teacher and I start
teaching these kids and there's no one
in the gym it's dead and all of a sudden
there 10 kids 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 cat
skill boxing club which was never there
now it's there and I'm training Fighters
I'm taking down to South Bronx to get
experience one of his former Fighters
NOS quis down to South Bronx I'm taking
down there to get smokers to get fights
when they're ready after I I'm wearing
out dungar I'm getting holes in my dung
I was fashionable before it was
fashionable to have holes in my dungar I
could have made a lot of money with that
because I was on my knees with these
little kids 9 years old 10 years old8
years old 10 12 13 14 all these kids and
and I'm teaching and I'm building a gym
and cuz only came once a week because he
was semi-retired you know and and he's
and when he would come once a week he
knew he couldn't give me money but he
gave me more than money he gave me
praise MH and he said look what Atlas is
doing he's creating Champions and I was
like wow yeah wow I'm I'm doing good and
and and then all of a sudden after four
years of that because I was up there
seven years8 years eight years after
about three and a half four years of
that we get a phone call that they get
this kid in prison and try on Prison uh
from one of the guys that knew C Matt
Baranski uh and and there's a state
there's a correction officer named Bobby
Stewart who used to box and cus had
helped him out a little bit little bit
and um and they knew we had this gym now
that was really starting become
something because we were winning
tournaments and everything else the go
we got this kid Mike Tyson he he's he's
12 years old he's 190 PBS he's a mess
but Bobby Stewart got involved with him
uh you know the the former fighter and
he's taking a liking to it and now where
he didn't behave at all and he didn't
listen to anyone now he's listening
because Bobby's got a carrot and the
carrot is hit teacher boxing and now he
he's at the point now where we we want
you to take a look you and Teddy all
right bring him down what what did you
think when you first saw Mike Ty well I
I want to I want to see his birth
certificate because he 190 lbs 12 years
old and all solid yeah um you know
really but yeah just physically just as
a physical specimen and and big guy yeah
and
listen cuz was right I was a teacher he
was right and he was testing me even
that day he said what do you think so I
said well we ain't going to know nothing
in the bag who the freak cares about
that he knocked the bag down we got to
put him in with uh we got no to put him
in that weight I didn't have anyone that
weight we got to test them everyone's
got to be tested and um so you got to
put them in responsibly but let's put
him in just respond but let's put him in
with Bobby Stewart former Prof fighter
had 14 Prof fights smaller than Tyson uh
he was when he was fighting he was 175
but still he's 28 years old Tyson's 12
come on and and he'll work with him
right so we do we put him Tyson he
recognized the moment he understood this
was an audition this was a chance you
know this was that TV show change your
life and he understood that if he passed
the audition he could change possibly
change his life he wasn't sure what how
could he be sure what exactly but it was
better than what he had and so he was on
aition so he wanted he innately
understood what we would want to see
ferociousness
toughness uh character uh desire you
know and of course ability well we saw
the ability power speed but it was it
was unbridled it was untaught it was it
was raw he didn't know really much at
all um at all but we saw that but he
wanted to show more he knew that wasn't
enough again inate intelligence he he
had to show desire he had to show
toughness and so I was being responsible
after two rounds that's enough normally
I don't put a guy into box until maybe
four months 5 months 6 Months 8 months
10 it depends what it takes to learn on
the floor before it's responsible to put
them in the ring to to actually take on
uh incoming real live shells instead of
blanks yeah and so normally I wouldn't
have them in and I knew after today he
wouldn't be in the ring again if I
trained him I would teach him first and
then he'd get back in in a few months
but for this day it was the only
way it's kind of like I used to make
this analogy and C loved it I he said
what's traded on fighter what do you
what what do you look for tading a
fighter Teddy you know he asked me this
ridiculous question just to test me and
and I say it's like going to Macy's with
he loved it I said it's like I said it's
like go to Macy's window and Chris he
goes what do you mean Macy's window you
know cuz was like boom boom boom so what
do you mean Macy window you go to Macy's
window and they get the window with
everything you want to see everything in
there it looks great oh everything and
yeah and then what well then you ask
what's in the warehouse and they tell
you
nothing yeah and and cuz says that's it
that's a trainer yeah and I wanted to
see what was in the
warehouse because I saw what was in a
Macy's window I saw the power I saw the
speed so he goes two rounds and he gets
bloody nose here's the weird thing not
weird very telling we knew what we were
doing not bragging but we knew what we
were doing because he got a bloody nose
because he got
hit after that Bloody he never got
another bloody nose you know why he
didn't get hit cuz he learned he was
still strong but he was smarter now
anyway he goes two rounds and I saw and
I'm being responsible because if he goes
more it's not responsible I saw what I
needed to say I saw speed I saw power I
saw athleticism
and I saw I didn't believe him I thought
he was lying to me I'm just telling you
I I thought he was lying trying to act
tough when he wasn't really feeling
tough it didn't matter cuz questioned me
on it afterwards what did you say and
when I said he goes young Master you
know again he wasn't paying me money so
he had to give me something right and
and that was better than that was
currency young master I'm the young
Master whoa you know young Master you
know what I mean I felt like that guy
Kung Fu you know like in the movie like
F grasshopper when you're ready when you
could take this out of my hand you can
leave and that's powerful yeah it was it
worked cuz knew how to work me and he
did and and it worked and and so but you
know what I didn't mind being worked I
kind of knew I was being shuffled a
little bit well you're making it sound a
little bit negative but it's also
extremely positive that's a teacher
instilling wisdom into you that you
carried forward and impacted a lot of
people yeah cuz got the job done but he
did it his way and and he did it for a
lot of a myriad of reasons and but at
the end of the day it was all good and I
I just had to understand that eventually
uh later on but and you do the same you
do things your way and carry some of him
in you some of your father in you yeah
that day you know that day it was funny
because when C said what did you see
Teddy when him what two rounds I got up
in the ring I knew I was going to train
him obviously we weren't going to say no
and he still had about four months to
serve and we were going to work it out
yeah
and when I got up on a ring apron that's
my gym I'm the boss you know people
later on in life called me a dictator
you know what I said yeah you're right I
didn't deny people thought you you you
mean I'm right yeah I'm a dictator I'm a
trainer I'm the boss I'm in charge if I
you wouldn't be here if I was
what the freak you need me for if I'm
not freaking in charge you idiot yeah
yeah damn right what do you think it's a
it's a Shar responsibility no it's my
responsibility that's why you're here
yeah I am in charge and you shouldn't be
here if you don't understand that so I
get up there and I know that I'm going
to be training them I got to show them
who the boss is you know I'm being
really Frank about this so I get up
there say that's it out yeah no no you
know Ty no let me go I want to do
another round I want to do another I
want I said out did you hear what I said
because I knew that you know he was
going to test me he was testing me I I
said I said get
out he got out but were you impressed
with the fact that you want to keep
going or no yes and I recognized what it
really was so cus asked me what was that
CU want to know what the young Master
saw so God said what was
that I said it was
um it was an act he goes you saw
that did he really want to go I said no
I said he didn't really want to go but
he knew that we want him to go and he
made himself ready to go in order to
satisfy and that's just as good and CZ
said damn right it's just as good all
that matters was not not not how he got
there but that he got there yeah that's
all that matters that he got there that
he got to the place to act like a
fighter to to do what we want him to do
to be ready to persevere to go beyond
the Comfort level to do another round he
didn't want to damn righty didn't want
to but he knew we want him to and he
knew in order to pass the test he had to
do it and he said you're right he goes
now it's going to be your job to teach
him to make him a fighter that don't get
bloody noses that don't get hit and will
get to that place without being
coerced to get there to get to that
place on his
own instead of using the things that he
had to use to get to that place today
those things are not going to be
available one day when you and listen to
this you talk about a man being
prophetic because was pretty good you
talk about man being on a job on a money
Lex he says how do you think he finishes
the s he goes because someday you
because you know you're going to have to
make sure that he learns these things
because you know he he'll be your first
heavyweight
champ what did you just say he's 12
years old yeah yeah he he's been
arrested 30
times he's getting out of jail out of
you know Juvenile Detention Fry on
um he's a mess in a lot of ways there's
a lot of things we find out later a lot
of problems weakness is he goes and you
that's part of your job that'll be part
of your job and but he really said that
he and then then he turned to him he
goes you want to come live with us young
man you want to be your
fighter yes even that CZ said to me
later what do you think about that I
said he a the way he said yes yeah the
way he said yes yes sir yeah he said
what do you think about that and we're
talking I said ain't going to be that
polite a little while down the road
again he knew that that's what he felt
that he needed to to project him