Kind: captions
Language: en
for me cooking is an art what's your
favorite ingredient to cook with there
isn't one it's more like when there is
one it really is one you know like
there's Peaches on the on the cover of
this cookbook those peaches those were
in August Colorado peaches it just
doesn't get any better than that on that
day at that moment that was the best
that was the but that only lasts for a
week and then they don't taste so great
yeah but damn they so good in that
moment and you just can't stop wanting
to use that
ingredient the following is a
conversation with Kimbo musk a longtime
entrepreneur and Chef and author of a
new cookbook called the kitchen Cookbook
cooking for your community you should
check it out it is in fact the first
cookbook I've ever owned I've already
made stuff from it and it's delicious
this is Alex fredman podcast to support
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Kimble
musk growing up in South Africa you said
it was a violent place what are some
formative moments that you remember from
that time South Africa was so I grew up
in uh par South Africa but more
specifically the fall of a paride so it
was was the 80 I was a teenager in the
80s and uh our community would would
um part of our social life frankly was
the anti- aparte protests and to go
be with white people black people kind
of mix mixing it all
together the most formative experiences
frankly how much I appreciate a place
like America where we have value for
human
life so is that was a country where
human life was not valued it was
a it's a weird thing to come from that
to he where where we we take it so
seriously if someone dies in a war or
something like that
and um we just didn't take it seriously
in South Africa people died but people
were killed I saw someone killed in
front of
me um with uh was getting off a train
and it's a very violent train known
known for violence we were stupid kids
we didn't really listen to our parents
we went on this train and uh the doors
opened and I had people trying to get
off the train and in front of me two
black people one black guy just stabed
this knife in the side of this other
black guy's head and you're like what
the fuck and you just I'm I got to get
off the train how old were you at this
time proba 16 or 17 and I got to get off
the train and everyone is trying to get
me to get off because you know they're
all behind me so I step off and I step
into the pool of blood one foot and then
I just walk from for about 100 Paces
while the stickiness of the blood just
kind of for my sneakers just on one foot
just like leaves a footprint behind me
and you just walk on you just walk on
did the others as everyone walked on
that's an interesting point you make
underlying the violence is a kind
of philosophy that human life is
disposable the individual life is
disposable I mean that underlies many
ideologies you know I grew up in the
Soviet Union the value of human life was
lower there than in the United States
the value of the individual in the
United States is really high it's
probably an index you can put together
like yeah right
exactly peration that that's a really
interesting way to put it because
violence is much easier on a mass scale
suffering causing suffering on a mass
scale is much easier when you don't
value the human life I've heard this
before where which I think I agree with
is when someone someone is killed
someone is someone's taken from our
lives the the vacuum that it creates the
social vacuum is extraordinarily painful
and and it truly is true I mean if
someone in my community passes away it's
very very sad for me and when you go to
a place where where you live grow up in
a place where where that human life is
not valued there's there's something
about the there's a little bit littleit
less of the social vacuum created
because everyone is kind of expecting
everyone to potentially be taken out at
any moment um but then there's also a
beauty to it because there's a much more
of a celebr
celebratory element when we my my cousin
Russ and I we again we were stupid kids
we shouldn't be doing this but we go
into the townships where all a lot of
the violence would be happening and we
really didn't see most of the violence
there it was in in these more protests
and and so forth but but the the there's
a joy that also comes from lower value
of human life there's a real Joy like
everyone is like well I mean it's
beautiful it's we we have dinner with
black friends you know friends with
their family we were still pretty young
and um and there was just a real joy to
it when you accept mortality yeah you
can really enjoy life you can really
enjoy I mean I think there's actually
quite a nice inside I I've never really
put it that way but I I think that's
right actually I think you you just
chill out a bit take things a little
less seriously cuz life does end for
everybody it does right and if you just
head on accept that fact yeah you can
just enjoy every single moment and let
go of this attachment uh and just enjoy
the moment it's a real I do love that we
will live longer and so forth but we
should live longer with a with the goal
of joy and the goal of happiness and
peace um not uh some some form of misery
that you choose to attach yourself to
maximize Joy maximize Joy that's right
there's a story that Walter isacson
writes about
where Elon got beat up pretty bad and
you were there and then you also had to
watch your dad yell at Elon for an hour
calling him worthless all those kinds of
things uh you said it was the worst
memory of your life what do you make of
such cruelty what do you remember from
that
time I mean it was
horrible I think you know coming back to
the point of low value of human life
they tried to kill him it wasn't um
wasn't it was no holding back so I just
watched
someone it wasn't just one but but there
was a main person and then there was a
few others that that piled in they they
just uh they tried to kill him in front
of me and I was we were eating
sandwiches on a on a staircase at at the
school out in outdoor staircase and um
uh I just had to I they they were not
coming after me and then I just had to
watch and I couldn't help it was one of
the saddest most difficult
um experiences it just was it's just
awful just like that life can end yeah
it could have been
you yeah I think uh uh so I've had I've
had a life life a near near-death
experience where I where I almost died I
went I was in
2010 and I think I think that and I I
broke my neck and I go to that story in
a moment but this was this was different
this was a this was this comes back to
the low value of human life part where
uh if someone had killed my brother if
that person had beat him to death which
which he was trying to do
um it life would have gone on you know
is that that's like an insane thought in
an American maybe in some tough
neighborhoods but for the most part it's
a it's another
thing yeah the brutality of that the the
mundan of the brutality
yeah it makes you think of all the
places in the world that that's
happening exactly and all the beautiful
people that just disappear I always say
to people who who have an opinion about
America that you know this is a really
bad country or or whatever
and I say look please go try another
country before you say that not to say
that America can't get better but please
go try another country because not
having that
perspective or having a perspective that
that um uh I don't know that could chip
on their shoulder about the country that
they're
in okay go go try another country and
then come back and tell me and pick any
country it doesn't have to be um uh you
doesn't have to be some you know very
violent country you could pick any
country and and and you just realize
that actually the the world doesn't
think the same way that America thinks
and you'll you're going to just learn a
perspective that I think uh gives you a
better way to critique um where we live
in America yeah it's humbling you said
that your dad was a roller coaster of
affection and then verbal abuse Walter
Isaacson quotes Barack Obama who said
someone once said that every man is
trying to live up to to his father's
expectations or makeup for his father's
mistakes and I suppose that may explain
my particular malady uh it's part of
that ring true for you what I thought
you were going to say was thought you
were going to end the sentence with live
up to my father's expectations MH that's
what most people say but then you said
the second part which is make up for his
mistakes MH and I think that's actually
that one is that one Rings true for me
um he was really is still Al but I don't
connect I'm not connected to him but
he's very
um uh he tght he taught me the phrase I
used to have was he taught me what not
to do so I still actually learned a
lot what what kind of human not to be
what kind of actions not to take and so
that kind of closer to living up to his
mistakes but it's but um my father is
such a train wreck that it's not really
mistakes it's like intentional actions
of what not to do okay don't do
that but there's still the trauma of
that you know it has an effect on the
human psychology and can permeate their
time so it has probably
complex uh indirect effects on who you
are the good and the bad there's a um
critique that my friends give me which
is when they're talking to me I kind of
just Drift Away okay just uh I'm still
looking at them still nodding might even
respond to their to their to them in
their conversation but I'm actually not
there and and I I've realized that
actually that grew up because my father
would just
verbal abuse is one way to say it is
abuse but it's more just verbal diarrhea
for for hours and constantly saying do
you understand like he wants to make
sure that I'm paying attention so I I
trained myself to look like I'm paying
attention but I'm not to disappear to
some place disappear to some place
wherever that is yeah and um and I do I
do that less and less over time but I
but that path has been paved somewhere
in your mind at childhood so it it could
be easy to walk down
it you and Elon were close growing up
you're still
close what did you learn from each other
how did you compliment each other yeah I
think we are we a good compliment um my
I'll talk talk for myself first my my my
strength is definitely on the social
side I love I love the Gathering
Place and I love putting people together
in person and I love to have vibrant
debates and conversations I've been
doing that forever and including
throughing fun parties and stuff where
where I bring people together and I
really kind of want people to have fun
and be but be vulnerable in a in a in a
not just like silly partying just but
actually like let's all connect
definition for me of a good party is
people laugh and
cry like I want to people I want to have
people have have an emotional connection
um I go to Bernie man every year and
that is there's no question you will cry
at some point during Bernie man no Small
Talk No small talk yes exactly no small
talk you're totally right on like most
parties not parties but most events you
go to our like clubs these sort of
nightclubs yeah and I never go to those
and my my joke is it's why would I want
to go to a place where I pay to shout
small talk in the
dark good line what it feels like I the
only reason I enjoy those places is the
full absurdity of exactly that right
it's totally ABS what what are we doing
what is this what is this like but I
have um so my compliment for my brother
was just bringing joy and social
connection and he's truly he's an he's
an engineering genius
I've worked with him forever and we do
compliment each other you just came out
with a cookbook by the way thank you for
giving me my first cookbook I feel legit
I love first cookbook I'm going to keep
it keep it on the counter and it's going
to give me legitimacy when anyone comes
over Hey listen I'm basically a chef now
that's right exactly uh when did you
first fall in love with cooking I
started cooking when I was 11 years old
um my mom uh is just she's she's
wonderful but she she's self- admittedly
a a a bad cook but but at the time it
was a it was and I think anyone with
kids goes through this there your kids
just want like something that spaghetti
bones or a burger or something and my
mom would do brown bread plain yogurt
and boiled squash you know like the
absolute most disgusting things that a
child could imagine eating and so I I
said can I cook and she said yeah if you
want to cook no problem so I went to the
grocery store and I I back in those
there's a butcher separate to the
grocery store and went to the Butcher
and I said you know what can I cook and
he P pulled out a chicken and he said
this is uh this is the easiest recipe
for you just put it on a pan in an oven
a hot oven cuz back then the ovens
weren't necessarily like 400° or 450 or
whatever and put it in a hot oven for 1
hour and enjoy that was it and uh so I I
went home and uh actually I also brought
some french fries I'll tell you that as
well so I I'm I'm I'm a kid of course I
went french fries so I the roast chicken
with french fries and the chicken came
out and it was just fantastic it was
absolutely fantastic that's incredible
by the way yeah you didn't screw it up
the first time first of I think that's
also kicks off the magic like you if you
screw it up and you're like oh maybe
this is not for me so for me it really
did did kick it off he started he
started out on a high no yeah right
exactly but I but I tell the French FR
part which was a disaster so I cooked
the french fries but I didn't heat the
oil first so I just put the potatoes in
the oil and I waited for it to heat up
and um I just was throwing up later that
night you can't your body can't ingest
that much cuz it sucks the oils in oh oh
and so that was a disaster but but at
the time it tasted good the
M the the the real magic which I also
found was one wonderful was uh when I
cooked you know my brother my sister my
mom all very very busy very intense
people would sit
down and we would have a meal together
and I was like wow this is a powerful
it's a very powerful thing that I've now
got where in no other way could I have
that connection with my family I mean
obviously we stay connected we're very
close Etc but in no other way can we sit
down and just talk about things or talk
about whatever is on our mind or just to
just not even talk just to just to be in
in at the table together and I've done
that now we through my whole life my
kids um still for my family uh and we
will do gratitudes at the beginning of
our meal and it's just I think the what
kept me cooking what made my love of
cooking so great was was actually the
fact that we would sit down together and
be be present with each other and I'm
also just also hard with that too so I I
also get to be present what is that
about food that like brings people
together and not just together but like
really together where you're like paying
attention right like what is that what
what is why is it food like what else
does that sometimes maybe alcohol can do
that which is a kind of food I guess
yeah but I think alcohol is different
because you use the standing when you're
doing alcohol so you're you're like
you're socializing but it's kind you
you're going to stay more in the small
talk Zone yeah right whereas if you sit
down yeah and I I see this in my
restaurant in the kitchen in Boulder
where we we have every Viewpoint or we
go to Denver every Viewpoint in Chicago
every Viewpoint and um the physical
presence of someone being with right
there uh is people are just they're just
they're just very different absolutely
different to what they are online I
think we all know the difference between
you know you send an email to someone
and they they they misunderstand email
mhm right that and you oh if I just
talked to the person it would have been
fine well this is now happening at scale
you know with all of these uh these
these uh what do you call trolling or
whatever and I I have I've I've sat at a
at the bar and I've had a hardcore Trump
supporter and I and I'm just I'm just
curious just like tell me what I'm not a
trump supporter but but like tell me
more and and and it actually draws the
conversation out because you're there
there for an hour or longer so there's
there's no rush to get the answer and I
think that's a big difference um I've
had uh one time where just a just a
couple months ago um I had someone I was
sitting at the community table we have a
community table in the restaurant and
and he was I didn't know him too well
but he asked me did I know that 9/11 was
a conspiracy and it didn't really happen
it didn't happen yeah M and I was like
huh so I I was at 911 I was I watched I
mean I watched the towers 4 I was like I
was there physically there so there like
no allegedly there's no doubt in my mind
okay but I but I but I didn't want to
but I didn't want to interrupt his his
what he had to say so I let him talk for
five minutes 6 minutes 7 minutes and
again you're there for a while so you're
not in a rush to to jump in and argue
and then I shed that I was there and I
think because I had been willing to
listen to
him he was willing to listen to
me and he I don't know if he changed his
mind certain he doesn't change my mind
but but it was actually a pretty cool
conversation to kind of get into each
other's mind well I think you connect on
a different level not on the level of
like the the conspiracy but on the level
of basic Humanity yes like that's what
you really connect on and then it's
almost becomes interesting and fun that
you can exchange ideas even crazy ideas
out there ideas and kind of play with
them like we humans are good at that
yeah exactly I like the I like the term
play with them because what what you're
not trying to do is shut the
conversation down you're also not trying
to talk down yeah exactly like you know
let me just be nice while I totally
disagree with this person um you can do
that for a few minutes you can't do that
for two hours and there's something like
about food that completely it I don't
know it must
be uh evolutionary that it it makes us
vulnerable in a way that even just
standing there for a long period of time
doesn't there's something
about you know like when the animals
gather to the water or whatever yeah
right like this kind of experience where
you're just like all right let's let's
just acknowledge together that we need
sustenance yeah and somehow that kind of
grounds us to like we're just we're just
a bunch of descendants of Apes here just
kind of like uh grateful to be alive
frankly and grateful to be consuming
this thing which keeps us alive and in
that context you can talk about all
kinds of stuff you can discuss Flat
Earth and enjoy absolutely absolutely in
fact um one of my favorite things to do
is uh is is you do a like a Jeffersonian
style dinner like let's say five or six
people sometimes you can people will
break off in individual conversations
that's actually when things break down
mhm so that's when you kind of go back
to small talk like oh I'm stuck next to
this guy I'm just going to do a small
talk what you need to do to really
create a great conversation is one
conversation at the table and that's
where uh you know there'll be some
some uh simple questions that I'll say
I'll say you know what's your middle
name and you'll be amazed at the stories
you get from that but it's it's about
creating vulnerability yeah so they're
like oh no one's ever asked me that
before so then they they become
vulnerable and then then something as
simple as what's the most fun thing
you've done recently and what is the
most fun thing you're looking forward to
mhm and I have gotten into with those
prom prompts I've gotten into hours long
discussions on God I've gotten into
hours long discussions on
love um I've gotten into hours long
discussions
on
anger it's actually amazing when people
are just asked the question like what's
the most fun thing you've done lately
well why would anger come up well
actually they they're in a vulnerable
place so it'll just kind of come out of
them so you get to see this you get to
see this at the kitchen and you said
Boulder Denver Chicago yeah and we're
going to open in Austin in Austin that's
what I saw when when in October is the
goal in October is the goal well I mean
speaking of characters and human beings
Austin is fascinating I've um I forget
how long ago me a couple months ago I
was just uh sitting at a bar and some
the two people were talking and they
were talking about Marxism and it turns
out that they're anarco Communists which
is a thing and I got into this convers
communist likes
drugs that's a good question
ask I think I know some of
those anyway they were beautiful people
I think they they're local from Austin I
don't you know I don't know the depth of
their uh personal experience of the
different kinds of communist like
systems but it was fascinating to listen
to them and get to know them and the the
humanity the weirdness like the
characters it's just I mean I love it
one of the reasons I really love Austin
I decided to uh be here is just the the
cliche thing of Keep Austin Weird I mean
there's a lot of weird I love it think I
think that um I've talken to a lot of
atin I have been here forever and I'm
like man you got to hold us accountable
we got to keep this place weird 100%
which makes the restaurant seem great
because CU you have all these characters
come in it's it's great so I look
forward to that but you were saying like
you get to see humans in real life
interact that's one of the beautiful
things over food in the book you write
Picasso once said the meaning of life is
to find your gift the purpose of life is
to give it away then you wrote that you
believe food is a gift we give ourselves
three times a day can you explain that
the gift yeah it's actually um I think
it's one of my most powerful life
lessons is is we we have to eat so it's
it's not it's not like you have a choice
you have to eat and so what I choose to
do is I'm choose to make it a gift to
myself each for each meal and most of
the time the best gift is with friends
with with family so we out to C cook
some scrambled eggs in the morning with
my daughter or we'll have dinner with
the our family to me it's a it's a gift
we give ourselves three times a day you
know at least but for the most part
three times a day let's make it a good
one what makes it a good one to you like
what what aspect what makes it a good
one well first definitely eating with
with people so that makes it a good one
so eating um eating as a in a restaurant
or it doesn't have to be my restaurant
where you have the energy of of people
around you energy of the Town people you
don't know creates a little bit of a
vibe that you you mentioned the The
Watering Hole analogy that animals like
sipping at the water but there's a
there's an to that because they're also
like looking around going is am I just
about to be
eaten so there's they're all in it
together but we need to have water but
there also a little bit of tension as
well in the background and I think
that's what restaurants do is a very
very subtle version of that you're in a
room with strangers yeah and you're yeah
you're a little cluster okay fine you
guys are connected and yeah but you're
in a room of strangers and it's just
something that adds that energy to to
the meal yeah you're a little bit
wondering like what does everyone else
think about our little cluster right
like are we too loud or or or just you
also just people are random so something
random could happen and also depending
on your personality if you're an
extrovert maybe you want to show off to
the other cluster exactly yeah
absolutely totally right I mean you know
look at the cowboy
hat I mean actually I'll take my hat off
when I want to have a quiet meal and I
can leave my head on when I'm so you're
aware of the L I'm aware of the effect
it has yeah absolutely everyone turns
right and then it's back to the watering
hole cuz when you wear a cowboy hat you
just might actually not yeah I'm I'm
like they're going to come they're going
to get me
first at noon I love it I I got to tell
the story so talk to the the the
craziness of being of being in the
restaurant world where you know you're
sitting at a table and anything can
happen in the restaurant so there's one
time like 15 years ago the um this guy
comes up to us and says we'd like to
propose to his wife his his girlfriend
um and and uh and so we we said okay
cool that we've done this
before make sure it's all set up 6 p.m.
kind of reservation so she shows up and
uh we we give her a glass of champagne
and just yeah we didn't obviously didn't
want to spoil the surprise we just doing
everything weend but then he doesn't
then he doesn't arrive and then we're
like oh man now we're like don't don't
leave can we get you another glass of
champ we're doing everything we can
because the guy was obviously Earnest
earlier we just is he in traffic or
whatever and uh out coming through the
back door of the restaurant which is
you're not allowed to come through the
back door of the restaurant a marching
band from the school of the University
like comes through the restaurant you
know fullon Brass Band and the whole
thing and um and you know he gets down
and he proposes and it's it's it's it's
it's it's beautiful sure but it's also
like chaos man this is chaos this is
insane and we would never have said yes
to this if he had actually told us what
he was going to do well sometimes in
life yeah you have to uh do it and
apologize you do it and apologize but
that talks to that kind of what's the
crazy thing that could happen in
a it's subtle but it's but it's still
there so in 2004 you opened the kitchen
it's an American uh beastro restaurant
what was it like what's it like running
a restaurant The Good the Bad and ugly
what's the what's the easy what's the
fun and what's the hard I think the
thing that I absolutely love about
running the restaurant not eating it I
but running the restaurant is the the
tangible
reaction from from people and uh um you
you know you also kind of know when you
screwed it up and you also know when you
got it right so even it's kind of a
weird way to say this but even if the
customer's
unhappy you know whether you got a right
or wrong it's not just about the food
you're making but it's about the
person's psychological State yeah and
you'll even you'll you'll do something
that you like you you know that that was
not well and their psychological state
is they're just in a very happy place
and they love it and you're like huh
interesting you know like that's not how
I would have reacted to that dish yeah
and then the other way around you like
no I got that right and that that person
is just like really unhappy today yeah
and it's so hard to read humans because
you have
to if you got to
write that can look a million different
ways depending on the emotional role
course that human is living through like
I've been some very low points and I've
gone to like a restaurant alone and just
sitting there and be truly happy with
just the Zen aspect of it and it was
just a great like a great stake or
something like this and maybe to uh
other people around me would look like
I'm very unhappy just because
I'm within my myself with your day yeah
within myself but I'm truly happy within
that struggle so yeah it's interesting
but you can kind of tell yeah you can
tell and um what you mentioned being at
the bar one of the most gift the the
most gifted bartenders really understand
that you know it's it it's goes beyond
um but what's also great about a
restaurant goes beyond the onetime
experience that you walk in and you have
that experience is the good bartenders
they they remember you yeah oh you were
in a few months ago and this this is
kind of your thing you might need a
little time M and um uh other other
people come and they want a conversation
yeah or other people come in and they're
going through a divorce and they just
want to be sad for a moment have a
scotch yeah and it's like it's amazing
what you learn in the in the rest of
world to just be connected to humanity
yeah what is that about bars that's a
different experience you said the the
table the the communal the table is when
you connect with people learn about each
other bars you can sometimes do that you
can talk left and right but but you have
the freedom to always break Break Free
free like you can say oh okay great I'm
going to go back to my meal it's it's
kind of like the it's like a it's a
friend you can turn on and off at any
time M because at the bartender knows
that they're trained like if you want
attention I'm going to give it to you if
you don't I'm going to I'm going to stay
away um if you if you want to be chatty
I'll be chatty you want to be completely
in your head I'll leave you in your head
but there's also strangers kind of next
to you that you kind of there's a
feeling with a bar that you're kind of
Alone Together yeah right and you can
reach out you can add some conversation
or you can choose not to and you can
exit quickly you can exit you can
exactly it's a really good exit so so
bars are are wonderful and I love going
to a bar by myself after
work I might might have a Squatch might
even not even have alcohol just have
something and I just uh and maybe have a
snack or something before dinner because
I'm going to go home and have dinner
with with the family and that that 20
minutes it's just a an amazing State
change from
daytime to nighttime where if I went
straight home I'm like still in my head
and I'm just trying to try to get
grounded and I'm just I'm not as
pleasant of a person so that's another
powerful use of a bar it's just like a
transition time well I mean it would be
remiss not to mention the other use of
the bar which is like when you're going
through some shit in life and you just
go I mean that's sort of it's the cliche
thing I've been some my
exactly the but like the bar makes The
Melancholy somehow like uh rich and
beautiful and like it's you feel heard
yeah in the silence yes yes you feel
heard you like like I said earlier like
the the people going through a divorce
they don't know where else to go yeah um
this is these are mostly men Sometimes
women will do it but mostly men will do
this and women have other ways of
processing it but they just they want a
place to be sad and a place where they
could
feel uh comfortable talking about it if
uh they W they're certainly not going to
go into too much detail but they just
want to say something yeah and the
bartender is there for them yeah you
don't know where to go you don't know
where to go exactly the bar the bar yeah
you're right like it for men especially
is a place to just go and just I don't
know what is that I mean be honest I
still do it myself where if I'm at home
and you know don't don't have a work
thing that I got to deal with and I
don't have kids and I don't have uh my
wife or a family
around um I I don't often cook for
myself I I I actually love going to a
bar by myself I have a glass of red wine
and I have you know usually don't have
starter appetizer I just have like a
main
meal and I just take in the energy of
the space was my restaurant or someone
else's restaurant just take in the
energy and it's so much so much better
than being home and but turning the TV
on no no no no no I I want to be out in
the restaurant I want to feel the energy
of the town uh the other thing that
restaurants teach me is the they're the
front lines of
of the economy or what the better word
for it it's like front front lines of
the energy of of of how things are going
oh like of a people's in general like it
doesn't I mean this part of town but it
could be the entire Society exactly so
you can you can go into a restaurant and
I'll use a simple example and the why is
the restaurant empty ah there's a
football game going on and that's they
PE there's such a large number of people
want to watch that game that the
restaurant is quiet or it might be like
another like World Series or something
and you're like wow that's so
interesting you can actually watch in
America of course American Humanity you
can watch them move in their pattern pns
just by being in the restaurant yeah
yeah and then another time you might be
in a restaurant and it's just jamming
and it's a Monday night and you're like
what what what is the energy that
created this on a Monday night and maybe
even on a cold February Monday night
what is it and sometimes you can't find
out but you can feel it and it's it's
like it's my it's my front lines of
humanity that I that I also just really
love about the restaurants yeah it could
be empty could be full empty bars
there's some magic to those too yeah you
could still feel that energy I don't
know I actually prefer empty bars than
than full ones just you and the
bartender I mean some of my greatest
experience is just the quiet bar with
just me and the bartender and they're
doing their thing and they've seen so
many I've almost like through osmosis
somehow feel the stories that that
bartender has seen has felt has heard
yeah and all that kind of stuff I mean
that it's it's not to be sort of
uh like spiritual about it but it seems
like it's in the walls or something like
there's the history is felt and some of
these bars are actually very old and and
it's wonderful like there many in Europe
like this but there's a couple in New
York City few hundred years old and you
you and they're still operating non-stop
for that long and man you feel it yeah
let me ask you some questions about
ingredients what's your favorite
ingredient to cook with for me cooking
is an art right so be like asking me
what's my favorite favorite paint color
that use it doesn't it's not that it
there it isn't like um there isn't one
it's more like when there is one it
really is one you know like there's
Peaches on the on the cover of this
cookbook those peaches that those were
in August Colorado
peaches it just doesn't get any better
than that on that day at that moment
that was the best that was the but that
only lasts for a week and then they
don't taste so great
yeah but damn they so good in that
moment and you just can't stop wanting
to use that ingredient they look really
good they are so good what's your
favorite uh fruit I'm I love veggies and
fruit what's your favorite fruit I love
a smoothie Bowl so I do sort of a
berries
raspberries uh but I but I use fruit
more in the form of a smoothie Bowl than
I eat fruit that often I like I like an
apple or banana but for most part I
prefer like the Blended not me I love
the way you casually set it like an
apple for me a good apple is pretty
great for me it's a problem I
think probably Cherry's number
one probably uh what are they called
granny smooth apples number two oh yeah
those are great but try when sometime
come to Colorado in August and when you
try those peaches it is
like heaven has arrived in your mouth it
is so ridiculously good but just for a
week in a just for a week you can't have
it all year long okay
uh what about veggies you wrote that
Chef Hugo that you worked with the
co-founded the kitchen with taught you
the power of a good vegetable yeah
what's the power of a good vegetable so
I trained in New York right as a French
chef but it wasn't very much ingredients
focused it wasn't very much uh sourcing
focused he came from the River Cafe in
London which was one of the N the ogs of
the farm to table and uh still going
strong today and he he taught me the the
value of getting to know farmers and
getting to know vegetables from that
farm versus vegetables from that farm
and they're actually different soil's a
little different way the way they grow
it a little different it's the opposite
of the industrial machine where
everything needs to look exactly the
same and um sometimes you'll get carrots
that are kind of ugly and deformed but
there's much sweeter than the carrots
you'd get for other purposes so you'd
make a carrot puree out of that and then
you take carrots that are that are more
typical in shape and size you might
roast roast them for uh for dinner so
the the it's the appreciation for uh
vegetables in general um I I probably
would say carrots is my favorite just
because I've us that was an example of
one where i' I've really had to learn
how to use the the the the different
types of carrots that come from around
from all of our farms and um it's fun
you know it's a fun ingredient if you
just went to Whole Foods or just went to
a grocery store and you just got exactly
the same carrot every time less fun but
go to a pharmers market and see what you
get and you'll you'll see they're quite
different yeah carrot for me is probably
number one I have uh rigorous detailed
rankings for fruit and veggies aming
we'll get into I'm just well I am the
kind of person that would have like a
spreadsheet for
that great but I'm mostly just making
fun of myself but I do love carrots uh I
wish they
weren't so full of carbs but yeah I'm
not I'm just not anti carbs you know I
think the anti carb yeah yeah I think
think they played a role you know like I
um have a great friend who's an amazing
doctor and um he did some tests for me
and everything and and turns out I have
a gluten allergy and I was like okay uh
so what that means is I shouldn't eat
gluten it's like yeah it's like okay but
I also have hay fever and that that
means I should not go out into nature MH
so I was like N I think I'm going to go
out into nature and maybe what I'll on
bread and pasta or like the true carbs
I'll I'll just have it when it's really
good mhm because when it's really good
it's really good and you don't want to
miss that most of the time okay find
some crummy bread whatever like I can
skip that part but I find all of these
diets are like no none of this or super
this super that I I I wonder if they're
just like um like a people are just
looking for something to hang on to but
these diets have been around forever and
if they work then we would know that
yeah I think one of the biggest problems
with
diets is it adds stress when you do have
that perfect bowl of pasta if you're if
you have categorized yourself as a low
carb eating person you might be very
stressed about enjoying this thing when
you should just let go let go this is
your cheat day or whatever yeah yeah and
I've heard that and actually I I I I
have friends who do that their cheat day
and I say to them I'm only going to hang
out with you on your cheat day because
that's when you're actually
yeah I I mean I I would say like for me
there's things that make me feel really
good but they're not rules they're not
uh they're they're like go-to
favorites speak like in terms of diet
and so on for example I've mostly been
eating once a day oh wow for for the
longest time but that's not a rule okay
like it's it's completely flexible and I
most have been eating very low carb okay
but you must be eating a lot of food in
that one meal yeah it's not you know
because it's usually a very sort of meat
heavy it's not like portions are not
that big so your body needs food yeah
but I need so you're talking about like
2,000 calories what you find out is like
that dinner is like the most social time
of the day yeah I mean I have kids in
the morning so if you have kids it's for
sure a morning experience but if you
don't then you're right yeah but like
you said I I deviate you know I'm more
afraid of missing the per
the perfect dessert the perfect
breakfast the perfect uh bowl of pasta
pizza all that kind of stuff and then I
don't think if it as a cheat day I think
it's um well if you're only eating one
meal a day you can eat whatever you like
well well like I I want to make clear
that it's not one meal a day always and
I'm like this very strict
thing uh it's you always have to be open
to the experience to the new experience
uh otherwise you do miss out just like
you said hey fever like I think if you
want to be really safe you should never
leave your home yes just w we learned
during Co if you wrap yourself in Cotton
wool in your basement yes you're you're
not going to die from covid you might
die from a lot of other things of just
pure misery yeah well you might live
forever we don't know but it certainly
doesn't maximize the joy of whatever
whatever makes life worth living it
doesn't maximize that yeah exactly you
wrote In the book that Anthony Bordain
was one of your Heroes M uh can you
speak to what inspired you uh about him
yeah he wrote a book called Kitchen
Confidential in the '90s I was in
cooking school at the time it was
so he romanticized the kit cooking in
the restaurant so well his writing is
great he kind of got me into like oh
that's cool I I want to do that that was
it was it was it was cool uh so I you
know got into cooking school got more
engaged in it and I and I was like this
had this fomo feeling of I wanted to
experience what it's like to be in in
the back when you cooking school you are
you are in the back had a restaurant we
would serve people but it's not the same
thing as actually being in a like a real
restaurant it's like you're in a
submarine with with you know your your
teammates and you got to win tonight
like it's a real it's a real energy and
so that that was a big inspiration I
followed him over there so sad that he
he he chose to in his life but I also
had met with him a few times not not
like one-on-one over dinner or anything
but just like met with him and and um I
just felt his love for for food and
truly just love for food he gave the
advice of Don't Be Afraid get excited
and cook with love yeah I've used that
phrase especially the cook with love one
I mean when you know one of the things
about which we talked about this earlier
where you get quick tangible feedback
from a customer when you're in the
restaurant um I know when I didn't put
love into that
dish I know when one of my line Cooks
did not put love into that part of the
dish I know when that expert person did
not put love into look you know double
checking the dish before putting it on
the table I I you just know and and cook
with love is uh when you do it for your
family oh actually especially when you
do it with for your family the food
isn't doesn't have to be perfect but
you're cooking with love that's why you
love scrambled eggs I do that it's
that's in the book Kimble scrambled eggs
yes you promised to make me scramble
legs I'm going to hold you to it that's
great uh a cooking school you mentioned
the French Culinary Institute I heard it
was a a bit of a rough experience in
parts are would call it it's it's not a
rough experience in that in a beautiful
way yeah yeah it's exactly it's not like
I'm a victim of it it's it's uh it's
rough in that they intentionally make it
rough so the the school costs the same
price as Harvard to go
to you show up you have to it's an
18-month program you are allowed to drop
out at any time you don't get your money
back 25 people
started six people
graduated and the people who graduated I
graduated but man it was there were
times where I'm like I I can't handle
this I mean I would literally say to to
to my friends oh I got to go to cooking
school I'm going to go get screamed at
for the next six or seven hours yeah and
I had this little French chef who was my
uh Nemesis does he still live in your
head somewhere he still lives in my head
exactly heally does he's like 5'2 or
something and uh and I remember him
screaming so much at me that this he's
like the short guy I'm 6'5 the spittle
would land on my face nice and I would
just have to sit there I stand there and
take it it was a very humbling
experience I did learn though that it
it's it's intentionally rough so I took
a little bit of the um edge off it one
day when that same Chef had come over to
me and said move over a little bit and I
moved over and he took my carrots
whatever and started just chopping
everything and like perfectly and then
he said okay now you just can come back
and then he went over to someone else it
started screaming at them saying that
look even Kimble can do this and you
can't do this and I was like this whole
thing's like a psych psycho game so it
did take the edge off when I realized
there was like the guy the guy was
intentionally trying to break you down
and they do this apparently in the Army
I've not been to the Army but they they
they need you to they need to break you
down everything you know is worthless so
that then we can teach you and you can
come out of it with at what with what
actually we want you to know Are there
specific technical lessons you remember
you learned from that sort of how to cut
carrots
or how to approach food how to prepare
food how to think about food how to
carry yourself in the kitchen you know
all of those things um I think that the
one of the most beautiful lessons was
actually scrambled eggs um so the
there's different layers of shfs so they
all master shfs they're all very
well-known people and everything but but
Alan sua was one of the chief like main
main guys and he just passed away Master
Chef and uh everything kind of stopped
when he would show up in the kitchen and
he would teach very few things and all
of the other chefs who would you know
the same ones that were screaming at us
just like it was like the Red Sea
partying like they have total respect
for this human and he can do whatever he
wants and the one of the things he
wanted wanted to teach was how do you
make an omelette a French omelette and
it's really fundamentally the same thing
it's a soft scrambled egg that you that
you fold and uh the love that he put
into the time with us and of course he's
a legend there were moments like that
where I'm like wow okay he he also he
also just like the other she didn't have
any concern berating anyone so he
berated our Master Chefs nice saying I
don't trust these people to teach you
how to make scrambled EGS so I'm going
to do it
instead what I mean can you speak to
that cuz you know a lot of people
hearing this would be like scrambled
eggs like why do you need to be a Master
Chef to to really make SCS it's a it's a
well first of all um for me and and it's
it's a it's a learning Journey
forever so so I make I make scramble
legs I mean almost made it 10 10,000
times or more whatever so it's like jro
Dreams of Sushi Kimble dreams of
scrambled egg pretty much okay so I will
um I will wake up and uh be held
accountable my by my kids to make
scramble this happens every morning and
um it's I I know all the steps muscle
memory level kind of steps how much
while I know it and then I'll cook it
and it's very meditative for me because
you have to focus so most scrambled eggs
soft scrambled eggs recipes are 10 15
minutes uh to get them to that that
perfect softness and the the the recipe
that I got from uh chef chef Alan was um
was something that you do in 90 seconds
MH but it requires Total Focus like if
you like look up for a second you're
going to miss you're going to miss the
the the perfect moment where you have to
stop and get those eggs out of the pan
because once the pan eggs will keep
cooking and so it's this meditation and
it's sometimes you hit it like perfectly
but most
times could have been a little softer
could have been a little firmer could
have been a little bit more salt could
have been a little more pepper um uh and
so so what's really fun about the
morning is my kids are kind of into it
so they're sort of like we we critique
the eggs yeah every morning do they have
a rating system we're back to the spr
it's more of a it's more like and again
it also come back to how people feel
right so like can be in a bad mood and
they can be grumpy like a Michelin star
system like what no no there not it's
more like oh yeah I uh I like my a
little more gooier or or yesterday it
was this way a little bit more salt a
little less less salt um salt is usually
the one that is because um uh not all
salts are are equal so if you are used
to working with a certain kind of salt
and then you're you just are forced for
some ran out of salt to use some use
some other salt you you actually don't
know how to use it you really you need
really want to have the same salt all
the time yeah you have a page on salt in
the book which is fascinating salt is
you got to get to know your salt you got
to you got to love your salt and you got
to use it over and over and over again
yeah and it will teach you uh how to use
that salt by you know your pallette will
tell you how salty you like things but
if you change it up and you mix up a
whole bunch of salt you've now
multiplied your learning path so for me
I my favorite salt is is uh kosal salt
and I like to use that all the time and
if uh if I ever change it I might
sprinkle a little bit of molden salt a
crunchy uh sort of a flaky salt but it's
more for for that at when you're
actually eating texture yeah it gives
you texture as well as salt exactly you
wouldn't use it on scrambled eggs but
the but if you switch out your salts
it's a different
weapon need to learn it you I like I
like how you know usually there's wine
connoisseurs you're saying you going
back to sort of farm to table when
you're talking about carrots in that
same rigor and Nuance you have to
consider the different Farms involved
for the carrots in that same way you
have to consider the different salts
yeah with like and also not even all
kosha salts are the same it's the
particular salt that you like get to
know it be get in a relationship with it
it's like great people learn so much how
they in terms of the uh the measurement
the proportion the the amount you put of
salt you put in are you doing that like
exactly or are you doing it by feel so
it's by feel and that's where you get
the relation