Kind: captions
Language: en
khabib beat Connor Putin was on FaceTime
before he even made it to the to the
locker room um Trump sitting president
ex-president watching all the fights
coling wants to talk about the fights um
Valentina shev shenko every time she
goes home she meets with the president
of the country the list goes on and on
and on the most powerful Elon Musk
Zuckerberg I mean the list goes on and
on and on the most powerful people in
the world are all obsessed with
fighting
the following is a conversation with
Dana White the president of the UFC a
mixed martial arts organization that
revolutionized the art the sport and The
Business of fighting and Dana is truly
The Mastermind behind the
UFC this is the Lex Freedman podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Dana White do you remember when
you uh saw your first fight I think so I
remember being at my grandmother's house
and I think it was an Ali fight and all
my uncles were going crazy during the
fight and it was just this buzz and this
energy in the house that I liked at at a
very young age and I'm pretty sure that
was my first fight oh he was something
special yeah incredible I mean when you
look around um not just here in the
office but at my house Ali and Tyson are
everywhere would you put Ali as the
greatest of all time boxing well I would
put Ali as the greatest alltime human
being I mean when
you it's it's it's it's easy as a fight
fan to focus on him as a fighter but
when you focus on him as a human and you
think about what he meant at that time
and place the things he said the poems
he came up with uh you know that just
just the overall Brilliance of Muhammad
Ali um the guts the guts to have the
strength mentally physically and
emotionally to go against the grain at
the time that he did it was a very
dangerous time for him to be who he was
um
yet because of how smart he was and
because of his personality and how if
you sat down with him you could you
could be the the biggest racist on the
planet it's hard to get in the room with
Ali and not like Ali yeah he's all love
humor all of it 100% and had the guts in
the ring and the guts to take a stand
100% when it was hard he might be one of
the all-time greatest humans you know
what I mean just an impactful
powerful human being who happen to be a
great boxer and sometimes the right
moment meets the the great human being
that's important I agree with you and
and he was the right guy in the right
place at the right time and he's also a
guy who used his platform for all the
right things so that might have been
your first fight but when did you fall
in love with fighting the art of it the
science of it yeah I I would say I
really fell in love with it so I I I was
a
senior it was
1987 and Haggler Leonard happened yeah
and I watched that fight and I taped it
and I watched that fight like a million
times I was a huge huge Haggler fan and
uh I like Sugar Ray Leonard too but I
was a huge Haggler fan and uh you know I
just remember I watched that fight a
million times because I I I was I was
pissed off and I felt like Haggler got
robbed in the fight you know what I mean
but it that was really what made me
start to love the sport of boxing the
Battle of it like I was
17 and then after that um USA's Tuesday
night fights uh came out on on
television was on every Tuesday night
religiously never miss Tuesday night
fights I was there watched all those
fights and uh you know a lot of uh a lot
of the the things you see in the UFC not
not
necessarily um just the production but I
would say the
uh the feel and the style and all those
things are are all things that
I things that I loved about boxing and
things that I hated about boxing right
down to the commentary you loved and
hated hated the yeah hated the
commentary certain things that I loved
about boxing I incorporated into the UFC
things that I hated about boxing I made
sure that the UFC stayed far away from I
think I can't stand Larry Merchant can't
stand Larry Merchant and I used to watch
HBO boxing and mute the commentary so
that I didn't have to listen to them um
Lampley too uh you know you you you
would spend this money for the
pay-per-view to watch these people that
you idolized to hear these idiots rip
them apart while the fight was happening
you know oh they were criticizing taking
part I've gotten used to the UFC so I
don't I'm trying to remember looking
back it was bad it was bad it was really
bad but the that the sweet science the
art of boxing was beautiful still like
the St I want to do this with you right
now hey we we we bring your cell phone
over here and and and pull up YouTube I
want to do this for you so that you you
can understand this and understand where
I was coming from for the commentary at
yeah at this point in time I have all
good memories you're going to ruin it
for me yeah no there are nothing but
great memories about boxing but the
presentation and and and a lot of the
things but it but it's how fucking weird
is it that I even cared about this shit
at that point in my life and that time
in my life I like what impact could I
possibly have on it so think about Tyson
and how much everybody love Tyson at the
time and listen to this listen to this
entrance of the former Undisputed
heavyweight champion and here he comes
Mike Tyson as he heads toward the same
ring he made his disgraceful exit in
June of 97 the crowd the badest
motherfucking walk-ins of all time by
the way right so what this guy should be
doing and this is one of the Albert
Brothers yeah shut the fuck up yeah stay
out of the way
yeah maybe build them
or that or don't say anything just let
the fan that's why yeah yeah yeah that's
why we paid our money you don't need to
say
anything scary imposing
music will he be able to intimidate his
opponent tonight will it even matter I
really thought that'd be more of an
explosion by the crowd here but uh very
mixed
even with the win tonight no matter how
one-sided he will still have his
detractors following the two fights to
with Holyfield his stop plummeted the
pundit came down hard feeling they were
dup that his Knockouts were over second
rate Fighters now the crowd erupts more
as he gets into the
ring but it's certainly nothing
overwhelming what a dick you're right I
don't remember that you're right imagine
you're right you you you you you paid
your money to watch Mike Tyson and you
got to listen to these fucking jerk offs
talk shit about them the whole way to
the right first of all one of the
coolest walk-ins ever you know the first
time anybody had heard DMX right and uh
that's right you know he's walking into
some scary imposing music will it even
matter well you know it's just all that
kind of stuff I I you literally used to
analyze every ounce of the production
that would happen on television and uh
at a time when I didn't even know why I
was doing it but but it's in there
somewhere like you were thinking about
it right so yeah I hated HBO uh
commentary I thought you know at the
time HBO boxing was obviously the gold
standard for for you know but when you
really think about boxing at that time
their production the only thing that
changed over 30 years was like HD I mean
even the commentators were the same for
for 30 years and then you had the time
when Larry Merchant gets up and and
literally starts fighting with Floyd
Mayweather during the interview and says
if I was 30 years younger I'd kick your
ass right now oh yeah I remember that
yeah I mean these are the interviews
that we have to listen to when we're
trying to watch a boxing match the level
of boxing was good think about a fighter
right fighter has been gone for months
away from their families and away from
everything training cutting weight
sparring then they go in and they have
to fight that night and then you have to
you know if you watch your fight back
you got to listen to this bullshit from
these guys and then and then you get
interviewed and and your interview is is
this it's just and it's not just about
the pay-per-view money it's about like
these are legends of humanity like we
should celebrate the highest form of
like accomplishment these aren't like
Mike Tyson so you know who goes in there
and and interviews Fighters Joe Rogan
right who who is trained and and and and
and done everything and has the utmost
respect for the sport and the athletes
or you you got like Daniel Cormier who
was a former world champion himself and
has actually been through it done it
knows and those are the type of people
that we put in the booth people that are
actually experienced in it not not not
not these people who've never been in a
fight in their fucking life right yeah
but they're also both DC and Rogan are
like big kids they love it they really
love it well everybody does I mean if
you look at it's it's the difference
between our commentary and what I feel
their commentary was we don't hire paid
Talking Heads we hire people that have
actually been in it done it love it and
are are super super passionate about the
sport and and I would say that none of
them that ever covered the sport back
then were I don't know if that was Marv
Albert or what Albert brother that was
but he sound like he's a fan of the
sport or
anyway you you got me you you got me on
this and once I get on this I lose my
mind maybe would we wouldn't have a UFC
if they didn't fuck it up so bad and for
the Tyson it would be different you're
not wrong you're not wrong it would be
different there's no doubt about it all
those experiences growing up being a
boxing fan help create what the UFC is
today you know it's interesting because
humans have been fighting for Millennia
and it seems like with the UFC the rate
of innovation is just insane in these
last three decades it seems like we've
discovered how to do unarmed combat
faster and better than than at any time
in human history I agree with you 100%
um the first UFC happened in 1993 right
martial art versus martial art yeah and
now over the last 30 years martial arts
has evolved faster than you know what I
mean and and like you just
said Combat Sports fighting whatever you
want to call it martial arts
it has
evolved so much in 30 years more than
the last 300 years what did you think
when you saw UFC one with ho I remember
everybody talking that this fight was
going to happen and there was going to
be no rules and all this other stuff and
we're like there's no way that's
bullshit and then we ended up at some
guy's house that night in Boston and and
watching it and it was happening and it
was fun and it was exciting and
everything else and then uh and then I
sort of fell off after that the first
one I I watched but I I was too big of a
boxing fan plus once grappling started
taking over and you know by grappling
meaning the wrestling and the and and
the Jiu-Jitsu guys that just laid there
you know I completely lost interest it's
funny that that I'm having this
conversation with you right now because
last night I was out last night with my
friends and we were talking about um
because one one of my buddies who's a
host here in town just did Jiu-Jitsu for
the first time nice yesterday yeah and
he was like did he get his ass kicked
yeah yeah but when you first go in yeah
our first Jiu-Jitsu lesson me Lorenzo
and Frank was with John Lewis
and I remember
thinking holy shit I I I can't believe
that I'm you know 28 years
old and this is the first time I'm
experiencing this that that another
human being could do this to me yeah on
the ground it is such an eye-opening
mindblowing experience when you do it
for the first time and then you become
completely addicted to it and you know
we were training 3 4 days a week trying
to kill each other and and uh me and the
fertitas and that's how we fell in love
with the sport I think that first time
that you do Jiu-Jitsu it's
like the red pill and the blue pill and
the Matrix do you want to believe that
this is the world that you live in or do
you want to see what the real world
looks like just as a real red pill it
really is you realize holy shit all that
shit talking I've been doing about me
being a badass you realize you're not
you get dominated by another human being
you realize no and I mean dominate I
mean completely treat you like you're a
little kid yeah um and then we had the
opportunity to roll with a lot of
different guys at the time because of
the whatever and we don't have a good
relationship at all but I'll tell you
this Frank Shamrock came in one
day and Frank
Shamrock had me in uh side control
mhm the pressure that this guy put on my
chest made me tab yeah felt like there
was a car on my chest and with zero
effort from him it was absolutely
effortless and when you when you train
with somebody that's at such a level
when you're not it just it is the most
humbling mind-blowing experience you can
have especially as a man but as a human
being do you remember just for fun do
you remember like what your go-to
submission
was yeah so you know when we first
started out and started doing it I had a
pretty good guillotine in the beginning
so I'd catch a lot of people in
Guillotines and so you okay being on
like on bottom so like I was okay with
bottom yeah I was okay with being on
bottom I was comfortable there but you
know what I never liked I never liked
ghee like we started fucking around with
the ghee in the beginning we would you
know that's how we started and then once
I took the ghee off I felt like I had no
submissions cuz I couldn't grab on to
anything so I after that I went all no
gear G and I I I never wanted to wear a
ghee and it's fascinating cuz no ghee
has become big now and there's a lot of
interesting people like I trained with
Gordon Ryan and like the level there is
just fascinating it's become like this
science and it looks like fighting now
it looks more like fighting as opposed
to with the ghee sometimes it doesn't
quite look like fighting right and I
feel like it's uh transferable to actual
like MMA fighting Noy stuff or street
street yeah right I mean if you're if if
you start off your first year is you're
in a ghee man you better hope guys got
like winter jackets on or something if
something happens in the street cuz it
in my opinion I know all the Jiu-Jitsu
fucking people going to go crazy over
this but in my opinion no G is way
better than ghe that's that I also do
Judo so in the street scenario if you're
comfortable on the feet and you can
clinch and you can throw you could
because most of us wear clothing
especially in Boston in new win City
exact so if you're comfortable on the
feet
you could still do uh well there the
problem with jiu-jitsu is most people
are not comfortable in the feet the
sport Jiu-Jitsu most people kind of want
to get to the ground as quickly as
possible so what do you think of hoist
at that time like in the early like what
CU it blew a lot of people's minds that
there's like more to this puzzle 100%
And the fact that you had um like these
guys like Ken Shamrock that were jacked
right and you had all these wrestlers or
you know the big mass of guys
that they had in the different weight
classes and this skinny little dude like
hoist was out there beating everybody I
mean if you look at the way the the
Gracies played that you couldn't had a
better advertisement for for Gracie
Jiu-Jitsu at the time but also like for
MMA because there's just like a lot of
surprising elements a lot of people's
prediction was wrong right they didn't
think the skinny guy would win and
they're like oh shit there's more to
this well it's the real beautiful thing
about jiu chitsu it's like when you talk
about if you wanted to get your daughter
into a martial art should I put my
daughter into karate or should I put her
into this you put your daughter into
Jiu-Jitsu 100% because it's not about
size or strength it's about technique
and you give your daughter a bunch of
Jiu-Jitsu and a little bit of mu Thai
you know yeah she becomes dangerous it's
like the perfect combo yeah cuz you can
put your son into anything your son can
get into some you know boys are going to
learn how to fight and they're going to
do whatever but girls are girls are
different and the other thing I mean
this is the biggest selling point for
Jiu-Jitsu for women I mean a woman no
matter how big how small can put a guy
to sleep in three and a half seconds
what's the origin story of the UFC as it
is today as you have created it and you
and Lorenzo and forto brothers built it
it started with with John Lewis you know
and and and seeing him Frank and I were
out one night at the Hard Rock and John
Lewis was there and he's like oh that's
that ultimate fighting guy and I was
like I know him and Frank's like I've
always wanted to learn uh ground
fighting and I said yeah I'm interested
in it too so we went over we talked to
John Lewis and we made an appointment to
wrestle with him on Monday yeah and we
told lenzo and lenzo came with us and uh
that was the beginning of the end I mean
we we started doing
jiujitsu and and started to meet a lot
of the fighters and we were like you
know at the time there was a stigma
attached to the sport that these guys
were you know despicable disgusting
human beings but which was the furthest
thing from the truth these these kids uh
had all gone to college had college
degrees most of them because they
wrestled in college and we started to
meet some we loved the different stories
you had Chuck Liddell who you know had
this Mohawk looks like an Axe Murderer
and uh but graduated from calply uh you
know W with honors and accounting you
know yeah then you had Matt Hughes who
was this Farm Boy you know literally
lived on a farm and so there were all
these cool stories with all these good
people that weren't what people thought
they were and Lorenzo and I always felt
like there's something here that if this
thing was done the right way this could
be big and what was crazy
was I uh I was in a contract negotiation
with Bob meertz The Old owner of the UFC
over Tito's contract um and Chuck
Liddell they didn't even want Chuck
Liddell in the UFC W I was trying to get
Chuck in the UFC and they didn't even
want him wow and we got into this
contract dispute over Tito's contract
and Bob my would said you know what
there is no more money okay I don't even
know if I'll even be able to put on one
more event and he like flipped out when
we hung up the phone I literally picked
up the phone and called the Renzo and I
said hey I just got off the phone with
Bob Myers owner the UFC I think they're
in trouble and I think we could buy it
and I think we should you should reach
out to him so Lorenzo uh Renzo called
meitz and I don't know how I don't
remember the timeline but within the
next two months we ended up owning the
UFC for two million bucks and uh you've
said that you fought a lot of battles
during that time oh I mean the early
days of of building this company and
building the sport it was the wow wow
West man it was it was crazy back
then um yeah I was literally at War
every day with all different types of
people plus traditionally the there bad
people that are involved in in fighting
man there's lots of bad people and we
had to sift our way through that for the
first seven eight years so in general
there's like corruption the people kind
of steal money they're thinking just
about themselves not the bigger business
let me tell you about this I mean I I I
want to say it was the Netherlands I
don't remember exactly where it could
have been
Amsterdam I mean MMA promoters were like
car bombing each other and then the
other guy shot up the other guy's house
with machine guns and that's the kind of
shit that was going on
I'll tell you the
story so Affliction do you remember
Affliction yeah so there was a guy I
want to say I want I want to say his
name was Tom Todd beard or something
like
that this guy used to text me every day
when they were when they started their
MMA thing telling me he was going to
kill me like legitimately legitimately
going to kill me yeah you punk
motherfucker I'm gonna fucking kill you
you don't understand who I am and what
I've done and this and that I think this
guy would get drunk or do drugs every
night or whatever his deal was this guy
would call me text me and threaten my
life every day I used to go fuck you and
this you said fuck you oh yeah oh man
especially back then yeah but yeah but I
mean this is the type of shit that went
on in the early days the this guy this
guy who was one of the owners of
Affliction was like one of the you know
not not a good human let's put it that
way what about the business side of it
it's tough to make money in this
business yeah we weren't making money so
you know trying to build this
thing corrupt
uh corrupt um the guys that work for in
demand pay-per-view at the time uh were
not good dudes you know and that thing
was a fucking total Monopoly God I wish
I could remember his name right now he
used to run in demand and he was a
fucking bad guy then he then he comes
over and starts running Direct TV who we
always had a great relationship with and
he's the reason we left Direct TV and
said fuck it we'll just go streaming
then yeah I don't remember his name I'd
have to ask Lorenzo so in general just
in this whole Space there's a lot of
yeah it's just Shady people everybody to
deal with is you're dealing with a lot
of lot of lot of different forces and
and your your hands are in a lot of
different businesses uh you know from
the venue business to the merchandise
business to the video game business uh
the pay-per-view business you know the
list goes on and on of all the different
types of the production business of all
these different you know when I first
started this I uh we had a production
team that was the production
team that was in it before we bought it
so there was this there was this
incident with Phil Bron where Phil Bron
we did an interview with him and Bron
flips out in the interview when they're
interviewing him and goes crazy and I
thought it was awesome so I'm like yeah
we're gonna leave this in we're gonna
leave this interview in and and the
production guys were arguing with me
they're like we can't leave this in this
is totally unprofessional I I said I
don't give a shit this is this is what
we're doing we're gonna we're going to
do this and clip it like this and do it
like that we're sitting in the venue
that night and I lean over to Lorenzo
because the fight's coming up I go
waitting to see this fucking interview
with Baron they didn't fucking do
it they didn't do it these guys were
guys that were freelance guys that
worked for Showtime at the time or one
of something like that I literally went
got up from my fucking seat went back
there kicked the fucking door of the
truck open and I said you motherfuckers
you ever do that again and I'll fire
every fucking one of you let's just put
it this way I ended up firing every one
of them anyway and and going with a
whole new crew but the these were the
type of things that early on you know
there's so much stuff I mean I could sit
here for fucking 3 days and walk you
through all the stuff that used to go on
back in those days uh but it the wow wow
West man but how did you figure out how'
you know how to deal with all this mess
first of all to fire people to fire
people that aren't doing a good job all
that like how to be a leader how to be
well that's the thing too I mean
business leader get get getting in in
the early days there was two employees
me and another girl that you that that
worked for me from my company before I
started doing this and then we slowly
started to bring people on and you start
to build a team then before you know it
we had 10 people I mean we used to do
our Christmas parties back then too
there' eight to 10 people at our
Christmas party you know um but a lot of
it is uh you learn as you go you know
you know what me and the fertitas knew
about production when we bought this UFC
we had like I want to say we had two or
three weeks to pull off an event this is
what we knew about production really
jack shit so we had to dive in and we
had to learn it we had to figure it out
and we um we knew what we wanted we knew
what we liked we knew what what we were
looking for um it's just about building
building a good team and I think that's
one of the things if if you want
to talk about what I've accomplished in
the last you know 25 years of my life
I've been really good at building teams
already have a vision of what you want
the final thing to look like and then
build a team that can bring that to life
100% you well you you you have to have
the vision without the vision there's
nothing so that's sort of what I do um I
I I am the vision part of of this thing
we're going to open a a p die in Mexico
we're going to uh do this we're going to
do that you know and then uh and then
you you build the team to to come in and
help
execute a lot of people that do uh
fighting promotions fail you succeeded
against long
odds uh what's the secret to your
success if you we just looking back over
the years well the secret to success I
would say first of all is passion and
consistency you have to love love what
you do you have to get up every day and
I I I get here every day at 9:30 in the
morning when we sold in 2016 a lot of
people in the company made a lot of
money and they all took off and they
retired yeah right um other than the
fertitas I made the most
money I'm still here I get here at 9:30
every morning last night I left here at
8:30 yeah you know and I don't know how
late I'm gonna be here tonight but I
love what I do we get up every day and
grind I work just as hard now as I did
back then the difference between back
then and now is I don't have to do a
bunch of the shit that I don't really
like to do like budget meetings I don't
like budget
meetings I sat through enough fucking
budget meetings horrible budget meetings
horrible you know we're losing you know
millions of dollars a year and I'm in
these in these budget meetings um you
know so I get to pick and choose what I
do these days back in early days you
don't get to pick and choose you have to
be involved in everything yeah so cost
you're just looking at cost you
literally go through line by line every
fucking number in the company and where
did the money go and how can we save
costs how can we do this better how can
we you know they are they they are
brutal and they're multiple times a week
and probably helps you deeply appreciate
how much the shit costs though 100% well
you have to know that yeah in the early
days when you start your business you
have these people who when I hear them
say you know what I
uh I want to work for myself I want to
create my own schedule and I want to do
all the yeah it just it's if if that's
your thought process going into it
you're never going to be successful you
have to pay attention to every single
detail of the business early on you're
involved in everything there's no days
off there's no birthdays there's no
fucking Christmas there's none of that
shit I literally move the birth of my
second son
for a chocolate L fight we had a
chocolate L fight coming up and I and
they're like yeah your son's going to be
born on this date and I'm like yeah
that's not going to
work we're going to have to take them
earlier yeah so they literally gave my
wife a C-section and and and took my son
early you're all in all in yeah and the
the fascinating thing like you said you
uh you've said that you could care less
about money you're doing this for For
the Love of it yeah I was doing this
when I was broke yeah and I'm doing this
now and I'm not broke I'm doing this
because I love it and and I I feel like
there's so much more to do and this is
truly my passion in life it's like the
sphar we're doing the sphere why why
would I do the sphere it's going to cost
me a bunch of money it's it's it's
really challenging um most people think
it can't be pulled off and uh you're
looking at weird angles different things
going on inside other than the fight and
all this other stuff but yeah I'm doing
it because it's awesome and it's
challenging and it's hard and I think
that if anybody can do it right it's us
so why not take that challenge it's
actually why I'm here I'm going to this
feere for the first time because I'm
hanging out with Darren aronowski who
put together the thing that's in there
now and I can't believe you're thinking
of I don't know how you're going to
solve that puzzle there's many puzzles
to solve for this one many puzzles uh so
how can you speak to that like what uh
are interesting challenges that you're
encountering yeah so there's a lot so
you have the Octagon right and then
behind it is the world's biggest screen
ever right so what is the theme how do
you program it first of all it's super
expensive to shoot and and and uh you
know the format for the sphere um angles
we were talking about uh today I just
had a big meeting today um about the
sphere this afternoon and making sure
that all my departments all the details
that I want all start to come together
here in the next two weeks I want the
creative the commercial I have some
goals I will tell people as we get
closer what I'm looking to achieve with
this other than putting on one of the
greatest most unique sporting events of
all time and probably the greatest
combat sporting event of all
time um but yeah there's I mean there's
challenges there's a laundry list of
challenges for this thing and not to
mention the fact that it's on indep
Mexican Independence Day and we're going
to weave in the whole history of combat
in Mexico yeah into this that so but the
production I mean this is hilarious
because you were just talking about
knowing nothing about production so many
years now tackling the sphere the
hardest production effort ever and that
would be live it'll be live it'll be
live on pay-per-view it'll be live in
the arena and it will also be in movie
theaters nice so there'll be a it'll be
shown we'll be shown at the sphere later
too like will you try to ESPN's doing a
dock on it nice the making of the sphere
yeah well you feeling good about it oh
yeah I feel incredible about it I I
can't wait it's going to be it's going
to be fun I can't wait to see how you
solve the puzzle thank you another guy
that I feel like could care less about
the money is Joe Rogan how important is
he to the UFC to the rise of the UFC and
what in general do you love about Joe
it's a fact he doesn't care about money
and he did the first 13 shows for free
for us yeah you know what I mean that
was at a time when we were hurting and
he's like wait a minute you you want me
to do the
commentary you're saying that I get to
sit in the best seat in the house and
watch these fights for free yeah yeah
I'm in yeah so um and then obviously
when we turn things around we we made it
up to Joe but Joe is one of the things
that I loved early on about so I'll tell
you the story so we buy the UFC mhm um
they're based in New York we're we're
moving the the the corporate offices to
Vegas so I have to fly out to New York
go into the offices and and uh start
going through everything and figuring
out what needs to come back to Vegas and
what we can just throw away so they
literally had a VHS machine and a TV and
there were a million tapes in this place
man so I didn't didn't know what tapes
were these definitely we have to keep or
these we don't need so I had to sit
there and go through every single tape
and I popped in a tape and there was an
interview on the ivory Keenan Wayan show
right the oldest Wayan's brother and he
had a talk show at the time and he had
Joe Rogan the guy from Fear Factor on
the show yeah and he was promoting Fear
Factor but all he would talk about was
UFC and yeah J he was talking
about how people think that these guys
in the martial arts movies are are tough
and and he was talking about what UFC
fighters would do to these these martial
arts guys if they ever got their hands
on them and I was like this is exactly
what I need a guy who isn't afraid to
speak his mind and knows the sport
inside and out but more importantly is
super passionate about it and loves it
so when you see Joe Rogan on camera and
I was talking about the paid dock
Talking Heads that they had in HBO
boxing that were
terrible Joe Rogan does not come off as
a paid talking head he comes off as a
guy who loves this and so early on no
media would cover us so I had to buy my
way onto radio so we do these radio
tours right and they would drop us in
you'd have to get up at 3:30 in the
morning in Vegas on the west coast and
they because that there at 6:30 in the
morning uh in New New York and Boston
and Florida and all these other places
so they drop you into these markets to
do radio right and uh the fighters were
horrible at it Fighters getting up at
3:30 in the morning especially leading
up to a fight never good yeah they sound
like they're tired they act like they're
tired and they definitely act like they
don't want to be on there and it it's
it's bad radio what you can't have is
bad radio so the only two people that
could pull off these radio tours were me
and Joe Rogan mhm so me and Joe Rogan
would alternate doing these radio tours
all over the country just talking about
fighting talking about what this whole
thing is like getting people excited two
guys that are really into it and
passionate about it and love it and and
and can and and it's one of the things
about Rogan too when when early on
nobody understood the ground game Joe
Rogan would walk you through what was
happening literally before it would
happen he would tell you the setup what
was going to come next and everything it
just absolutely articulated perfectly
brilliantly and people at home started
to understand and the the impact that
Joe Rogan has had and continues to have
on this sport is immeasurable he's the
biggest podcaster in the world and he is
on the
UFC uh pay-per-views you know 14 times a
year and he's always talking about the
sport it's immeasurable um what this guy
has has has done for this company and
the sport yeah still to this day like
I'll have dinner with him offline he'll
just talk fighting just loves it true
loves every aspect of it yep Joe Rogan
is is is one of those guys I saw that
early on when why would you go after the
Fear Factor guy yeah you know to be such
a key component to not only the company
but to the sport I saw it in the fucking
interview on Ivory Keenan ways
I value loyalty a lot and I remember
there was a moment not too long ago
maybe a year ago when I was sitting with
Joe and he had a phone call with you Joe
is getting cancelled for
something and uh they didn't want him
commentating the fights and you on the
phone offered your
resignation over this I got te eyed over
that that's such
a you're a good man you know thank you
that was powerful anybody who is with me
has been with me knows when you're with
me you're with me it's a two-way street
it's not a it's not a one-way Street um
I'm not one of these guys that uh is
going to roll over
and uh it's like going through covid um
I wasn't laying any of these people some
of these people have been with me for 20
years we're going we're we're going to
lay them
off this motherfucker will will burn
burn yeah before I would do that to my
people it's just it's just never none of
that type of stuff is ever going to
happen while I'm here I can't say what's
going to happen when I leave but when
I'm here the people who are with me and
have been with me they they know exactly
what's up and Joe knows what's up and
and and and and it's and again it's a
two-way street Joe Rogan has been very
loyal to me and I am very loyal to Joe
Rogan l o another guy you've close
friendship with you seem to have been
extremely effective together as business
partners what's what's the magic behind
that yeah how can you explain that I
love them Lorenzo and I work really well
together because we have two different
personalities right I'm the guy that
always I'm I'm going here Lorenzo is
always here right you could walk in a
room and say Lorenzo you just lost $10
million Lorenzo you just won $10 million
for never changes and I'm a guy that
goes like this right so we almost
balance each other out there's a lot of
things that he's really fucking good at
and there's a lot of things that I'm
really fucking good at and they're both
on the opposite sides of the spectrum so
that levelheaded thing was useful when
the UFC was losing money and it was
unknown whether it's going to survive
yeah those low points 100% what's
incredible when you think of Theo the
story of the
UFC um at the time the casino business
was cranking right and Station Casinos
was killing it and stations their money
from stations is what was funding the
UFC then in uh the '
089 crash the UFC was killing it in ' 08
and 09 and you know the casino
businesses were hurting MH so timing on
everything the way that it all worked
out couldn't have worked out better for
them um and obviously for all of us when
you think about the UFC and how big it
is and how far it reaches and how many
people it touches the fertitas brothers
made a $2 million
investment then put in like another 44
million and look at how many lives that
investment has changed over the last 25
years it's fascinating and it's also
crazy just get the business of it just
the effect it has on the history of
humanity in terms of this what we do
we're descendants of Apes that fight and
this is like the organizations that
catalyze the The Innovation and how we
fight right it's crazy it create a whole
new sport that that people all over the
world participate in now literally there
isn't a place on Earth that we can't get
a fighter from now you said uh in the
UFC 299 post fight press conference that
um sometimes Fighters might complain
that you know they get matched up on
even odds but that's actually when
Legends are
made uh I think you gave Dustin porier
as an example can you elaborate on that
a little bit like what makes a legend
what makes greatness in a fight so
behind the
scenes Fighters are a very paranoid
bunch of people they're very paranoid
and there's been this this this theme
with fighter where they're trying to get
me beat right
M we don't determine who wins and loses
if we did we'd be the WWE okay um you
do I'm the bells and whistles guy I make
sure that as many people that we can
possibly let know that you're fighting
on Saturday know that you're fighting on
Saturday who you are who you're going
against and why people should give a
shit that's what I do right then the
night you show up
I put on the best live event that I
possibly can and I put on the best
television show that I possibly can once
that door
shuts it's all up to you you determine
whether you lose or not and if you get
into a position where you become so
paranoid that you think that the powers
that be here are against
you and you you you try
to steer
yourself away from certain
fights and and that that's one of the
big things that happens in these other
organizations and these other
organizations the inmates run the
Asylum right so if they don't want to
fight bad enough these other companies
don't push and they don't do this and
they don't we put on the best possible
matchups that we can make
and in this business you might be an
older fighter but if you're still ranked
in the top 10 there's young guys coming
for you
Killers young killers are coming out and
they want your position right so you
being the the veteran that you are have
to prepare yourself to go in and you
know everybody was saying when we made
that fight with st Denise that poier was
in big trouble po da d d d that's
awesome that that helps build
the entire thing that porier and then
porier goes out and does what he did
that
night that's what makes fucking Legends
it's interesting cuz like sometimes
being the underdog is a really good
thing for the long-term story of who you
are as a fighter especially when you're
a big name and a name that people
recognize and a name that people know
and you know and they're like oh man I
remember Israel adna and and and uh Sean
Strickland
MH 100 out of 100 people new for a fact
that Israel is going to win that fight
yeah yeah and here comes Strickland and
and we could go on for days with this
you know what I mean that is what
creates Legendary Moments legendary
fights and it's what builds stars and
legends I mean arguably um Conor
McGregor with Jose Aldo yep Conor
McGregor with a bunch of people in the
beginning people said he couldn't
wrestle people said he wouldn't be able
to defend a takedown um blah blah BL
blah Nate Diaz against Conor McGregor
you know what I mean and uh and
Gregor against kabib
Underdog probably but if you won There's
an opportunity to win if you won that's
that's the legend for me he's now in the
conversation for the greatest of all
time without argument and if you look at
the way that khabib ran through so many
people Connor hung in there you know
yeah and it could have been made a fight
of it it could have been what do you
think about that matchup it's one of the
one of the greats one of the great
matchups that you've made Conor mccre
versus kabib yeah I mean at the time I
was incredibly criticized for putting
together the
spot that had the the scene with the bus
in it yeah you know you know the fucking
media is but they were saying that I was
pandering to the you know to the
violence that happened and trying to I'm
telling you a story telling you a
story of how we got here and how big
this fight
is and how bad the blood is between
these guys and I mean I think that's
what we
do the best job at is telling the
fucking stories of why
I we go into Monday it's fight week we
got a whole list of things that we do
fight week right and then you get right
down to the press conference on Thursday
the weigh-ins on Friday and then the
fight's on Saturday now my people fly
back home they go to bed on Sunday night
and it's Groundhog Day we wake up again
on Monday and it starts all over again
every weekend every Saturday for a year
so there's lots of stories that need to
be told there's lots of when you think
about what I compete with whatever takes
your attention on a Saturday night is my
competitor so you're always trying to
build a foundation for great stories and
like if the fighters step up they step
up and they can together create
greatness that's it that's exactly right
so when we are online like when you get
to the UFC I mean you just saw it with
MVP um you're going to see it with Kayla
Harrison and uh so many others that that
that have come from other organizations
and they get here they notice
immediately the difference between
fighting here and fighting wherever they
were before it's not even comparable to
the impact it has on you when you leave
whatever organization you're with and
you come to the UFC and I think that it
gives them a sense of
holy shit I I I can really I mean MVP
when he came I mean there were probably
more people at the press conference than
any fight he'd ever fought in in
Bellator you know what I mean and you
feel that energy and you feel you feel
the difference of the impact of being
here and I think it takes a lot of these
guys to another level yeah just the aura
of it like this is where you're supposed
to step up yeah it's the way people feel
about TED talks when they giving
lectures this is your moment you get 15
minutes and this you better say some
interesting shit yeah and Kayla Harrison
by the way is a badass I can't wait to
see what happens there she was walking
around like this sleeveless shirt the
night of the fights and holy shit she is
jacked man it's crazy two-time Olympic
gold Metalist right you don't fuck with
those people you you want a medal you're
you're You're Made Of Something Special
so true especially in Judo yeah
especially in American Judo where it's
not you don't have many training
partners that are great so you got
fucking work for it
ridiculous question but who's in the
conversation for the greatest of all
time John Jones so you you've talked
about John Jones but what are the
metrics involved here he's never been
beat he destroyed everybody at light
heavyweight which at the time was the
toughest uh weight class um in the
company in the sport and then uh he
moved up to heavyweight one easily at
heavyweight um and and and when you look
at a guy
and you look at what he was doing
outside the Octagon at the same time
which shouldn't be part of it shouldn't
be part of the the equation but when you
do wow John J there's no debate nobody
can debate who's the greatest of all
time it's absolutely positively Jon
Jones he's never lost no he's never been
beat in the Octagon ever so that's one
of the metrics like pure sheer
dominance but there's others right there
you could losing sometimes is a catalyst
for greatness I don't disagree but when
you've never lost right it's this like
you've never lost we we've never found
somebody and and all the other thing is
that you have to put factor in is
longevity how long he's because
sometimes with a lot of these guys the
sport passes them by you get younger
guys that are faster this that and the
sport evolves
nobody's been able to beat Jon Jones oh
and the other thing that you measure is
you know when you said
dominance it's true if you're this guy
that has unbelievable power and you're
just going in you're just fucking
knocking everybody out and nobody's ever
pulled you into the deep water before
that was when my opinion of Jon Jones
started to change Guston took him into
the deep water Guston hit him with some
shit he'd never been hit with Guston
tested him and put Jon Jones in a place
where I I bet if you sat down and
interviewed J
Jones going into the deep rounds of that
Jon Jones thought he was going to die
you know what I'm saying and he he's
willing to go there and he kept going he
was he was willing willing to do
whatever it took to win that fight and
it breaks my heart because he beat DC
and DC is one of the greatest of all
time that's the thing too and and I
believe that DC doesn't get the credit
he deserves because of the Jon Jones
thing when you look at DC and what he's
accompl right and Jon Jones beat him
twice yeah it's
undeniable you can hate all you want Jon
Jones is a greatest of all time do you
think uh khabib was tested enough I
think that khabib had the potential to
be in the running for that he didn't he
just didn't stick around a lot first of
all he he he had injuries that that that
you know he should have been where he
got a lot sooner had he not had the
injuries that he had and the setbacks in
his career but there's no doubt khabib
is one of the all-time
greats what's the The Good The Bad and
ugly of your relationship with Connor
there's literally no ugly Conor McGregor
has been an incredible partner to work
with everybody thinks that Connor if
Connor showed up the things on time
there wouldn't be one fucking bad thing
I could say about Conor you know what I
mean only being late to shit if you
fucking said you put a gun to my fucking
head right and said Don't Lie
motherfucker tell me all the bad things
about Conor McGregor I'd say the guy
doesn't show up on time that's it that's
it if Conor McGregor showed up to shit
on time and sometimes he does sometimes
he does he'd be he'd he's been a great
partner if you look at what a huge
Superstar he became the fights that he
was involved in let me tell you what
Conor McGregor never did we never walked
in a room and said Connor this guy just
fell out um we want you to fight this
guy and he was like no way I'm not
taking this fucking risk I'm at this
point in my career where my money my
this my that he was like fuck it let's
do it you know he'd always say let's do
it the other thing that Conor McGregor
never did no matter how big he was or
whatever it was and we were heading into
a fight oh Conor this guy just fell out
Aldo fell out we were looking for
another yeah I'll do it but I'm gonna
need another fucking 200,000 I'm gonna
need another million dollars I'm G Conor
mcgr never did that kind chicken shit
you know bullshit kind of stuff he he
never did any of that Connor was as
solid a guy as you could possibly work
with just fuck it I'll do it I'll do it
literally would there's actually a scene
cuz we were filming something I don't
know if it was embedded or what we were
filming at the time me and Lorenzo walk
into his house that he rented here in
Vegas and I'm pretty sure it was when
Aldo fell out and we're telling him this
that and we're looking at some options
he says I'm going to the gym when I'm
done working out let me know you know he
just woke up out of bed he's in his
fucking underwear and he gets hit with
this and he's like all right I'm going
to the gym let me know when I get out
who I'm fighting doesn't care
doesn't want to know doesn't want any
more money nothing fucking shows up and
he delivers yeah yeah so you know Connor
has been incredibly successful he's made
a lot of money and you know he's had his
ups and downs outside and inside the
Octagon but as for a guy who was you
know on the Dole and was a plumber he's
actually a really smart businessman he's
been one of the best partners that I've
ever had in the history of the sport
yeah an important part of the history of
the UFC big he opened it up to all kinds
of new eyes yep he literally um you know
set Europe Australia Canada and many
other parts of the world on fire man he
he he he he was a our our first legit
Mega star and I personally think he
doesn't get enough credit for just how
good he was as a fighter and people love
to talk shit about Connor I suppose
that's part of his magic and and and but
it but but it comes with uccess yeah
when you're successful there's always
people out there that are going to talk
shit you know you always have a bunch of
know nothing do nothing fucking losers