Kind: captions
Language: en
when we go to the dojo there we all get
thrown by people that never come out to
be world champions you know they they're
just in the mix or they're going through
three years of University and then they
go we we had a
guy we had a guy that came in he was
business guy came in with his suitcase
and his tie up like that and he's he's
in his lunch hour he's in his lunch hour
right so it's got to be quick yeah so he
comes in and he goes through he's
working his way through the whole of the
British team we're all lined up right 10
minutes later he's just TI his tie up
like that you know and back to work like
that you know imagine him sitting behind
his desk and his computer yeah yeah I'm
glad he didn't get
out who do you think wins you I think
you matched it but but you know wait
whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa you think to be
St rire I think
so strong
words the following is a conversation
with with Neil Adams a legend in the
sport of Judo he is a world champion
two-time Olympic silver medalist
five-time European champion and often
referred to as the voice of Judo
commentating all the major events World
Championships and Olympic Games
highlighting the drama the Triumph the
Artistry of the sport of Judo making
fans like me feel the biggest wins the
biggest losses the surprise turns of
Fortune the dominance of Champions
coming to an end and new Champions
made always speaking from the
heart this is the Le Freedman podcast to
support it please check out our sponsors
in the description and now dear friends
here's Neil
Adams you are a five-time European
Champion world champion two-time Olympic
silver medalist let's first go to the
Olympics where was your mind what was
your preparation like what was your
strategy leading into that Olympics that
was my first Olympic Games so my
preparation was a little bit different
to how it was the uh 84 and the 88
Olympic Games and um I'd kind of done
part of the preparation as well for 76
Olympic Games I wasn't quite old enough
for those but I was first Reserve so in
1980 I'd had four years buildup and I
was hungry and I was one of these young
athletes and I see them so often now
that was developing and you know full of
I won't say I full of myself but I was I
was certainly confident of my ability
and I wanted to conquer the world and
I'd had a couple of really uh tight
matches with the current Olympic world
champion so I knew that uh there was
possibility that I could get there for
the 80 Olympics so uh building up to the
at Olympics was um was quite interesting
because I was kind of coming through the
weights and I was halfway in between the
71 kilos weight category and the um the
higher weight category of 78 kgs and um
I'd got third place at the 79 World
Championships the weight below fought
the whole year at the higher weight
category didn't win a lose a contest so
I'd beaten everybody in the world and uh
and then I had to make decision as to
whether to drop to the weight below
because I was seeded in the weight below
it was a different seeding then see and
um so I decided to drop into the weight
below because I was seated in the top
four and um as it happens I think it was
probably the worst decision I made well
because simply because I mean it was the
only contest that I lost was the final
of the Olympic Games in that year so
you're a young kid what like 1920 at
that time full of confidence Vigor so
the decision to cut we how hard was it
for you to cut we to the 71 kg division
I've got to say that it was the hardest
because as I was going up I was you know
it was 73 then it was 74 kilos 75 so I
was moving through the weight category
it wasn't like I was stuck in the middle
and then I dropped the odd time to
compete it was literally going up in
weight um by a kilo every every month
and then by the time I came to a month
or two before the Olympics it was really
hard fought the European championships
at the higher weight category and won
that and so everybody that was in the on
the Olympic rostrom um at the um
European at the Olympic Games was on my
rostom at the European championships so
um was it a mistake yeah because I
didn't have my diet sorted out my
nutrition was appalling and when I you
know it wasn't as kind of readily
available as it is now for the nutrition
and I would say that if um anything lost
me that final other than the fact that I
was fighting somebody was terrific you
know he was a an excellent brilliant
athlete but um definitely didn't help
that my nutrition was was not very good
okay so you lost to Etso G there's
probably a lot of that we could say
about that particular match maybe let's
zoom in what were your strengths and
weaknesses Judo wise in that Olympics
you said you haven't really lost a match
you won the European Championship
leading into it but if you had weak
spots okay you already said diet but
specifically on the mat in terms of Judo
I think that none of the fights lasted
time going into the final you know so I
I won fairly quickly and uh every match
by ion you know way before time do you
remember how do you remember how you you
won the matches I won them by throw a
couple of throws uh for ION and then
armlock for ION semi-final was an arm
loock against the East German Krueger
and uh yeah I just I was flying through
you know who were the throws you
remember taosi uchimata uh my favorite
kind of um tku waso my favorite throws
and uh and then a juuji katami as well
to you know which was a juji katami role
against an East German who I'd beaten
before but always had a really tough
match but uh managed to beat him well so
you had a beautiful exhibition of a
Japanese type Judo in the first two
matches you threw people and then you
also did the naaza you onbar a person
great so going into the final what are
the weaknesses going into the final
against the Italian like I say taking
nothing away from him as a great athlete
and a brilliant Judo man and um and left
which wasn't good for me that was
definite no because I hated fighting
lefties still do but I'll tell you why
in a minute I just it's one of those and
but I think as I went through the
contest we we had an8 hour break from
the semi-final to the final they took us
back to the Olympic Village then we had
to come back in and then we had to start
a warm-up again you know so I kind of
lost my momentum I had to start again
and I never I didn't I just didn't I had
a job to get going I got halfway through
start started to rescue a dying match
and um you know I was kind of one step
half a step behind all the way through
so never really got into it so why do
you hate fighting lefties and lefties
are we should say over
represented in terms of uh the higher
ranks of Judo I don't know why that is
well you know the thing is about a lefty
is a lefty will have more opportunity to
fight right is you know right-handers
because I mean 70 70% of the population
are right-handers 30% left so they get
to fight more
right-handers and um it's just a fact
you know that happens so uh the thing
that they hate is fighting left against
left they don't like go they would they
don't like it left against left whereas
a right-hander will go right against
right you know but but the opposite is
awkward um for me because just simply I
like to go onto the uh sleeve and then I
like to dominate the grips but the
actual angle of the uh of the opponent
wasn't what I wanted you know so I had
to work hard really hard against it what
happened in that
match um it was a split decision in the
end and so to lose an Olympic Final on a
split decision is is pretty um you know
it's something that's still on my mind
and you know I think that it's a strange
one because I can still wake up
that one and and four years later at the
Olympics cuz I was silver medalist at
the the Olympics four years later as
well and uh yeah it still haunts me do
you sometimes wake up and think like man
I should have eaten better or like or
maybe like a specific grip that you're
like I shouldn't have taken that grip I
do you know I mean the diet side of it
it's it's difficult to ex you know to to
Really admit that isn't it that you uh
you went to an Olympic Games and the one
thing that you really sucked at right
was one of the most important things now
um at at World level sport you know
where you've got the nutrition you know
we've got it you would think that most
people have got it sorted but there's
still people making mistakes and still
people that haven't got it totally
sorted and then there's people like
Travis Stevens who I think doesn't care
he'll just have atrocious nutrition and
he just makes it work I think the way he
spoke about it is
you can't always control nutrition so
it's best to get good at having crappy
nutrition it's a good way of looking at
it I never yeah maybe that's what I did
exactly exactly do you remember what you
were eating we talking about like candy
or yeah well I got a sweet tooth you but
I wasn't it wasn't really I mean I
didn't have a lot of money at that
particular time either you know so uh
the diet wasn't steak and and uh you
know good nutritional salads and things
like that you know I I did what I
thought was best without you know proper
advice and the crazy thing is is that I
had such good advice as well you know
when it came to kind of Fitness training
and things like that we're quite ahead
of our time and you know we really had
it nailed uh as far as the conditioning
was concerned the Judo training as well
was uh was way in advance because I was
a good trainer and I trained more than
most I would uh I can honestly say that
it probably uh got me away with a you
know a lot where was your mind so mental
preparation going into that Olympics you
said you were confident but is there
some preparation aspect behind that
confidence I think in the early days I
didn't think I was going to lose I never
thought it was possible to lose and I
think that I went into every contest
expecting to win so when it didn't quite
go my way I didn't lose that many
contests you know so the only ones I
lost were in the final of the world
championships or in the final of the
Olympic Games so I didn't lose that many
I never lost a European title you know I
had seven uh Golds at European
championships you know five at uh
seniors two at Juniors under 20s and I
never I never lost the final you know so
it was and then I only lost two on a
split decision you know so it was I
didn't lose that many but and and my
attitude was that I wasn't going to lose
and I I couldn't lose you know so I was
always
surprised uh when I did when I you know
something
happened in uh Neil Adams a life in Judo
written in 1986 you wrote ever since I
can remember I have wanted to win it
wasn't the ordinary feeling that
children have when they take part in
their first Primary School sack Grace on
a grass track or even the Keen
determination of a young swimmer
prepared to Train Early in the cold
winter Mornings in order to make it into
the county side with me the desire to
win was and still is as much a part of
me as my arms and legs in other words it
wasn't something I learned As I Grew
Older but rather was deeply rooted in me
perhaps this competitive instinct is the
greatest difference between my Public
Image and the view from the inside so
people see the kindness the uh the
warmth you have the the Charisma the
excitement but there's this big drive to
win inside you so what's behind that can
can you just speak to that that drive to
win and how that contributed to your you
know when when I when I look back now
that's a there a lot of years ago we
should say it is a lot of years ago you
know is that true or not far off no you
know it's not when I think about it now
because I'm I'd like to think that I'm a
different person now and you know since
I've kind of calmed down I I see
athletes now and I see them they they
are you know and they they're kind of
arrogance they they're walk and it's a
strut you know and it's it's a kind of a
confidence isn't it you know and and we
as we're older and as I've become older
i' I've calmed down and but you know it
doesn't matter what I'm doing it's still
that will to to win you know and and I'm
much better at masking it now if I don't
but it still bothers me as much you're
talking about like I don't know even
just like stupid silly things like like
I don't know a game of pool or something
like this or just anything yeah I'm
still trying to win you know like so my
son loves to uh he loves to play me at
balls because I'm useless you know and
I'm I just can't throw a straight ball
so he loves playing with that you know
but it bugs me that I'm not better you
know and um there are certain things
that I do it really bugs me when I'm not
good at it and I guess it's one of the
reasons that uh you know long after I'd
finished competition know people still
want to train with you you know and even
at a like kind of um an older age even
now if I doing a seminar or you know
they still you know do you still do do
you do you want to still go and can I
feel it and you know what one of the
things that's in me is that I just uh
all the way up to 40 years of age so
from 30 when I finished competition up
to 40 I could still train with the best
and I could still go with anybody and
then when 40 hit kind of things started
to fall off a little bit you know I used
to get you know either my hips all my
the legs and my knees and and I realized
that I had to pick my practices and that
wrinkled as well and I had to then just
calm it down a little bit otherwise I
was going to be injured and I was going
to be U you know it's it's not a good
thing when you're getting older and you
you've still got the same competitive
mind but things change so it's still
there you get on a on the mat
probably even now right you get on the
mat with a world champion you're you're
still the current world champion there's
still a little part of you could I still
toss this guy you know kids these days
are soft I well you know what some of
these athletes I mean like I give you a
prime example right is ilas il all right
I mean he is a monster right and you
just of course you couldn't you know
because the just at 60 something you
couldn't but you like to think that you
could you know you could you never know
you got find out you know what you would
do what you can do is you can cause them
problems but and they feel it
immediately but you'd last a minute you
know so you've trained with artist I
gotten a chance to train with them as
well he's a really nice guy really great
guy he trained with me we were training
together every hotel that we used to go
into we'd end up in the gym together and
we train and this one time he was in
there and he just wanted somebody to to
grab and grip hold of and so we ended up
doing this kind of grappling in the
middle of you like the people doing
weight training and you know the
different things watching these two Mad
Men doing uh I'm glad we weren't on a
mat at that particular time yeah but
good fun what do you think about that
guy he like you achieved a lot of
success when he was young 17 you imagine
that 17 18 years of age and uh he's able
to compete with the men there's not many
men can do that you know and it doesn't
happen
very often it happens later with the men
and often they're not physically as
developed as they you know so from me
for example I fought nerov uh who was
World Olympic champion he was the
current world Olympic champion they sent
me to the European Championship senior
at
17 and so that doesn't happen very often
and I thought I pulled neov so I fought
neov and he I had him really worried you
know because I he Ed without a doubt to
come out throw this kid you know and
Junior and he was like thick and
shredded like he's he was shredded he's
like there's a picture of him in his
judogi and his judogi is just cut it's j
know and he and he looks the business
and there's me in this baggy
like yeah skinny kid inside this baggy
thing but I you know I and the thing was
is that the more he tried and the harder
he tried and the more he panicked the
further it went away from him and uh so
you know of course he got he got the
decision at the end and deservedly but I
worried him you know and so and uh and
so for me that was a massive step
forward because year later I was you
know starting to fill out and uh two
years later I was competing for the
Olympic title so I don't know if I
remember but ilas ilas is interesting
because even at 17 I feel like he was
doing big throws like uh literally
lifting them with it just rips them out
the ground you know and I was saying to
uh to Nikki you know my wife and we uh
she said what would you do now that was
different than the what you did then you
know and I I never had any pickups you
know I didn't that's not that's not what
we did you know but you have a look at
the um the young uh Ukraine or the the
you know the young Russians or the young
um Eastern block uh Mongolians and
they're ripping people out the ground I
mean it's it's just different style of
Judo and it's it it just looks different
but now they're starting to do a
traditional style Judo as well so can
you speak to that what the different
styles of Judo so for you you mentioned
uchim taoshi these these uh how would
you describe them they're like these
effortless less lifting off the ground
and power and like strength and explo
and more timing and position movement
momentum all kind of stuff that's more
traditionally associated with Japanese
Judo cuz like for Japanese Judo the
traditional Judo like you're supposed to
throw people in a big way without much
effort and of
course we uh 1990 we saw the
introduction of all these um Eastern
block countries you know the
um there were so many more I mean it was
Soviet Union when I was competing and
then of course in 1990 everything
changed and then there were so many more
of them out there different countries
where you know that that their wrestling
styles were were introduced into Judah
you know put a jacket on them and let's
get into Judah so Judo kind of changed
shape it it changed shape from this
ight standing you know that and and
having to know the technicalities of how
to get a a body that's weighing 40 you
know um uh 14 stone or you know whatever
it is up into the air and uh using them
momentum and the balance and the
direction and and and the skill to do
that and knowing how to do it you know
and how to use movement and then you get
you know the wrestlers and and and the
the leg picks and the double leg single
leg double legs and you know and it kind
of by
1995 you know Judo was was bent over and
so it was the ioc that went to igf
International Judah Federation and they
said you got to change this or we're
just going to have have one wrestling
sty it looks like wrestling with Judah
uh with Judo jackets on so you either
change it or we're going to take one of
you out by the way we should sort of
clarify when we say people are bent over
that's usually how you see Freestyle
Wrestling wrestlers are more bent over
to defend the legs and so on and
traditional Judo people are more
standing up because that's the position
for which you can do the big throws and
all that kind of stuff but uh I think
the other case to make for uh Banning
leg grabs is you know a lot of people
are using it for stalling and not for
beautiful big throws and all that kind
of stuff so it's not just not to make it
different from wrestling it's it's also
like you want to maximize the amount of
Epic throws and uh Dynamic Judo and
exciting stuff to watch right win by
Judo not not by wrestling and I think
that you know the ones that were
shouting about it were the wrestlers
right because they they they like to
compete with both they like they want to
do both they want to do you know their
wrestling matches and then come into J
so what basically I mean what what we've
said is then learn to do Judo and
there's nothing stopping you then from
doing both right but not from the other
way around all right so rules always
dictate development they'll always
dictate which direction it goes so if
you introduce a rule that states that
you cannot dive at the legs and just
pick up um then you'll have to do it
standing up and also it increases the
possibility of Defense with the hips
because actually um good defense Judo
wise standing up is with the hips as
opposed to sticking your arms out and
then sticking your backsides out there
just to defend all right so if you
attack me and I I I move my body in the
wrong place so I'm in the right wrong
place at the right time so you don't hit
the right Target and then also I use my
hips you know so uh again it's it's a
form of uh Judo that um was being lost
so now we got it back so let's go there
let's let's speak about
Judo as if we're talking to a group of
5-year-olds so what what is Judo what
are some defining characteristics of
Judo as a sport as a way as a martial
art as a way of life all that kind of
stuff I think you know when you say it
as a way of life I mean the um I think
the the great advantage that we have in
Judo my young grandson so I got two two
little boys that are three and a half
years of age love going to our Dojo they
love it you know so Dojo was the first
word that they used it was one of the
first so when they come to see us you
know so seen my wife and I you know it's
like Dojo it's not Grandma Grandad you
know it's Dojo so Dojo they take their
shoes off going into the dojo you know
so they have respect for where they're
at you know and uh I think it has that
kind of feeling that uh like I tried to
build my Dojo with a feeling of
reverence it's kind of almost peaceful
you know so if like I'm not religious
I'm not a religious person but I like
going to Old churches because when I go
into an old church doesn't matter you
know what the religion within the church
but it there's a there's a reverence in
there reverence is a good word it it
feels like a really special place no
matter which Dojo you go to it's just
you bow and there's a calm this before
the storm of battle or whatever it is
yeah and respect you know look at the
respect you know we were just talking
about it just before we came on on air
we were just saying that we very very
seldom do we have a situation where
there is
animosity other than them fighting you
know so I'm I'm not saying that they
don't fight each other because sometimes
it does turn into a brawl and at the end
two people bow off and show their
respect you know and and one of the
things you know like so a champion I see
people winning events and they're good
judoka they're excellent they win World
Championships might even win the Olympic
Games but a great Champion for me is is
somebody who treats uh who who does the
right thing when they lose you know so
when you see them lose that's when you
see the true them you know and actually
that was one of the biggest things that
I had to really cope with you know so
when I lost that Olympic Games in Moscow
and also the one in in um Los Angeles
the hardest thing is when the
microphone's in there and and you've got
to be respectful and nice and and the
hardest things to smile but actually
some of the great Champions you know
they'll they'll go that's just one match
you know I remember uh we've got um
we've got one great Champion AGB n she's
a five-time world champion she Olympic
champion she's going she's favorite as
well to to get this Olympic gold medal
French MH what a great Champion she is
you know because um she lost one of the
matches I mean she'd come back and um uh
she'd uh give him Birth come back after
giv him birth and everybody was going
well was she you know but then and then
she lost one of the matches on the way
through and she said well don't be don't
be upset you know it's just one match
it's just one contest you know next time
I'm going to put it right and she did
put it right and now she's back up there
and she she won the world title back so
you know the these are great champions
for me yeah I mean that's the right way
to see it but it's also tragic to lose
the Olympic Games you know
twice yes it is tragic and I do I do
have sleepless nights I mean that's the
the magic of the Olympic Games anything
can happen and your
1980 Olympics were very different from
the 1984 but if we just Linger on the on
80 and just your we were talking
about how much you wanted to win do you
love winning or hate losing more I hate
losing more but I love winning when I
won the world title the year later and
um I had no doubt when I went in that
day that I was gonna be world champion
no doubt so you won the uh 81 World
Championship at the higher weight at the
high of the 78 yes
kg um actually can we go there what what
what was going through your mind you
ended up arm barring a Japanese fighter
I talked to Jimmy Pedro a friend of
yours somebody who said you were a
mentor to him for many years and he's
told me a bunch of different questions
to ask you but he said that was a really
special time that was a really special
like dominant run you had um and
especially finishing with an arra asess
a Japanese player so take me through
that what do you remember from that I
think that it was so my weight was
better I didn't have to lose weight that
was one thing so the nutritional side
wasn't as important but probably you
know it still wasn't as good as it could
be my
nutrition uh although it was getting
better and I was uh trying to eat the
right things at the right time um but I
still trained really well and I was so
confident there going into that World
Championships that I could win it I had
no doubt in my mind that I was going to
win but you know obviously uh corner of
your mind you're thinking um just don't
make mistakes but you know this is the
incredible thing is is that once you
start to ask you what once I see contest
change direction when I'm commentating
so I can see somebody who's in there
just going forward just trying to win
right so and that's a difference to
somebody who's trying not to lose MH and
it's two different ways there you know
so sometimes when you uh so when I was
world champion uh then I had a period of
time where every time I stepped out
there I was really afraid of losing and
um and I think that that's what happens
later on in your competitive career you
know the great Champions managed to come
through that Teddy Rene is one of those
you know he he just he puts it out there
and he keeps beating them you know so
they can't take it away from him you
know it's it's it's fantastic so
stepping on the mat every single
encounter you're trying to win you're
looking for the grips and the with the
intention to throw throw big even when
you're ah head on points all that kind
of stuff that's a really good point is
that if you go ahead in a match and you
look at the clock it depends when you go
ahead like sometimes you can go ahead in
the first minute and you've still got
three minutes to go so I see the ones
then that go into I don't want to lose
because they go into defensive mode and
then sometimes they can lose it on
penalties or something can go wrong and
uh the other one comes on strong and
then they can sneak the contest and so
um it's it's really difficult but what
when I was coaching I was trying to
always encourage
that positive attitude for the full four
minutes five minutes then I've competed
a lot in Judo and jeta I've always hated
that part of myself when I'm up on
points by a lot you look at the clock
and it's what you do when you look at
the clock minute and a half you're
really
tired and you kind of quit you just
defend yeah and I hated that part about
myself it's like that saying don't do it
yeah well as opposed to just go out in
uh in Judo that's a for big throw just
keep going for the throw and Jiu-Jitsu
it's go for the submission like throw
CAU like win in the real way versus on
on points I hatte that part of I mean
mostly underneath that is cowardice
induced by
exhaustion exhaustion's the one isn't it
you know but but it is isn't it it's a
mindset as well you know so actually
trying to get your mind positive all the
way through you know so I I mean if you
listen when I commentated now is I say I
hope that they don't change the mindset
and that they keep on and they are going
forward all the time you know and
actually they're then more difficult to
catch we had one uh just a couple of
weeks ago and he lost in the final
second of the contest lost the final he
was the only one to score he got
penalized all the way up two seconds to
go and stepped out of the area and uh
you know but he went like that thinking
the Bell was just going and the Bell
went 1 second after he actually stepped
out so he got penalized lost the match
and lost all of the points for
qualification so it was it was you know
that's uh paying high price that's
paying high price yeah I mean that's
there's a thin thin line between uh
Triumph and tragedy and in uh those
competitions but especially at the
Olympic Games so let's just stick on 81
World Championship what it feel like to
win that world championship like uh and
also getting an armar as a Japanese
player uh Jimmy told me your arms were
exhausted yeah I mean you you just I the
thing is is sometimes you know when
you're going when it's competitive as
well you know um hours is a different
intensity too like you just where where
you can take time a little bit hours is
bang it's transitioning from standing
down you've got 10 15 seconds to go in
there you go in 100% it's a bit like
running uh uh you know full out for 10
seconds like and then you've got to
decide then especially if they're
defending it whether you let it go
because when you get up and your
forearms are blown you know and you got
lactic acid in there and you still got
to grip up because remember ours is
about gripping as well on the jacket so
if you can't grip up then you can't gain
the advantage then they can throw you
you know so you have to decide so I had
a massive attack on him and we changed
directions four or five times and and
then I wasn't going to let him go but I
still you know when I was turning him
there I had to decide am I going to go
all out for this and and just or you
know like there has been occasions when
I've kind of released it MH to just you
know I got a minute to go and just lock
out yeah so so what you're saying on the
feet there was a change of Direction all
different kinds of attempts and then you
went to the ground and that's so what
was that do you remember that decision
of like okay am I going to finish this
yeah I knew it I I just as soon as I
climbed his back and and then I thought
he's not going he's not going I'm not
going to let him up you know so I was
just changing voice your head little
little something in my head was going
don't don't you know just stick on him
and and then it's always about pressure
on the arm and and I just you know and
of course he was like that you know
where defending you know he was almost
total Bridge trying to get out of it did
it start in turtle and like did you
started in Turtle because I I did an
attack came back out of the attack and
then he went onto his front and then I
was on his back and then I started the
whole saw opening you just went for it
just I was it was an automatic
transition so I mean the transitions are
what we teach you know because the ones
that are quicker down with the
transitions are the ones that catch it
that's our naaza you know our groundwork
is the transition from standing down to
ground it's very you know we don't have
a situation where you can kind of work
your way in you are in or you're you're
not in you're standing you know so you
got to make sure that you're in and so I
had I was just on his back like a leech
and I never let him go so you I mean
yeah so that's where the arm bars that's
where the attacks on the ground which is
called naaza happens in the transition
at that level at that high world class
level yeah I mean he was no mug either I
I think he just got third third place in
the all Japan championships which is all
weight categories so he was he wasn't a
mug you know he was he was strong and
I'd fought him once before and and I
knew he was a lefty as well which was uh
really awkward for me did it feel good
better for me than him did it did it
felt it felt amazing you know because um
it was almost like all these things
disappointments and everything had kind
of come to uh this one point uh where I
was at last kind of champion of the
world you it's everything I said as a
kid that I had no idea how difficult it
was going to be you know so as a kid as
a 14-year-old kid I remember saying I'm
going to be world champion I'm going to
be the best in the world I had no idea
how difficult that was going to be well
there's wisdom to that right like uh
there's power and stupidity of Youth I
like that right like just like I'm going
to be World Champ I'm going to win this
without knowing how hard it is and then
uh once you go after it it's uh you're
trapped you're going to have to do the
work yeah well I mean you see a lot with
parents as well you you know parents you
know how little Johnny is he's you know
he's amazing and he's this that and the
other and they have no idea what's you
know out there I remember the very first
time I I stepped out
1974 uh into the European uh Cadets uh
and I remember um that we were fighting
I'd only ever fought in Great Britain I
was the top you know I I was unbeaten in
in the Junior years kids and went out
there and um there were these um
different Fighters out there that were
treating me with total disdain and I
remember
thinking how dare they you know just you
know and I realized when I came back
from that event there's other people out
there there's just a whole you know and
there are different levels of you know
the majority of people are just not
informed as to what's out there and the
different levels that there are out
there do you remember like a a certain
opponent that for the first time you
felt like holy yeah there's po like
somebody just gripped you up and you're
like this is there's another level to
this game edio was uh edio was one of
them and um I fought him you know and I
beat him in the European championships I
beat him in you know two times and then
lost to him in the Olympic Games two
months after I'd beaten him in the
European Championship wow yeah yeah so
it wasn't that that made more difficult
right Nemesis there wow so that made it
more difficult and um so he edio was one
and uh getting hold of uh I remember um
uh getting hold of Nishida of uh Japan
and he had me going up and down and uh I
just I thought wow this guy is amazing
you know and uh I'd never fought first
time I ever fought Japanese in a major
tournament you know and um I felt the
danger I always talk about the danger
when we go out to Japan to
train uh I could go probably uh months
without getting thrown in training here
in Europe and and I go to Japan and you
know everybody's throwing you you know
and and that's difficult to accept and
the reason that kind of danger and that
kind of um
um feeling of danger is something that
puts a real Edge on you know and uh so
that was first time when when I got a
hold of nishido I thought oh my God you
know this guy you know didn't matter
which way he was turning like that he
stretched out and and I thought this uh
I I want to do this you know and then I
ended up fighting him again in Japan so
that feeling of danger is really
interesting like I've
uh I've you know did randori with a lot
of worldclass people from different
parts of the world uh including ilis
elatus and like there's was certain part
like Eastern your
Pito you're you feel like you're screwed
the whole way through like uh the
gripping you really feel it in the
gripping it's the gripping that does it
but in with with Japan like really good
Japanese style jidoka you don't it's
like it's a terrifying calmness well at
least at least the experiences I've had
you don't really feel it in the gripping
you just feel like anywhere you step
you're getting thrown it's a different
it's a different thing isn't it it's a
different thing so I mean mine was kind
of a mixture right like it to be a
mixture because um there was um the
gripping is definitely the key point so
if you get a high level guys that are
gripping up and I always used to put
this to the
referees um when we were doing referee
seminars when we first started them and
I'd say uh how many because like they
would referee to their understanding of
the match so they were penalizing for
certain grips that were you know and and
actually
so as an ex-athlete
uh high level I would say have you ever
gripped up with high level all right
because if you haven't you need to do it
because then you'll understand why they
do certain things with the grips because
these guys are like you know when
somebody grips you and you think you
know you're going to go when IL Addis
puts his arm over your back all right
and he you you know you're going to go
up and over you know you're going to go
over you know that's it it's a cool
feeling it's like whenever not for me
why is
but it's like I mean because it's not uh
it's it feels way more powerful than it
should yeah it's weird I don't know you
want to attribute it to strength and all
that kind of stuff I people say you have
like immense upper body strength but
it's probably something else it's like
technique it's some kind of weird it's a
mix of everything just like something
hardened through lots of battles and
randori and that kind of stuff yeah but
it's cool that humans are able to
generate that kind of power it's cool
when I was um 84 Olympics well but I'm
just going to go there now just quickly
but um there was um we had a freestyle
wrestler he's American actually but he
had the English um uh nationality so he
competed for um n Lan his name is and he
competed for Great Britain he got third
place at the Olympics in 84 but he was
training uh we were training at buddai
and he was training he came to do some
Judo and put jacket on and of course he
was training with some of the lower
levels and he was really handling
himself well and then um he said I need
to feel you know
he when we did rander you know so I he
did some rander with me and uh and I
immediately thought I got to catch it I
got to stop single leg and double leg
cuz he he was really quick right so
strong as well 90 something kilos he was
like you know he's a big guy so I caught
a sleeve and immediately caught M and
controlled him and and then he couldn't
start right so he said I needed to feel
the difference so then I
thought I better reciprocate this so I
said well you know so we did the randor
and I throw him a couple of times he
said I'm really glad we did that so then
I said I I need to feel the difference
as well so we take the jackets off so we
took the jackets off and he was a
nightmare this guy was a nightmare and
like a monster you know he was like
single legging me and you know it was
just totally different you know so it it
was uh like the jacket makes a massive
difference huge difference to uh
something you know and and people think
it's just a jacket that we're wearing
but it it isn't it's it's our only um
tool actually yeah and it's control I
mean it's a way of establishing control
of another body and it's a whole art
form of Science and I don't even know if
you understand it really you understand
it sort of subconsciously through time
yeah cuz like it there so much involved
cuz pulling on one part of the jacket
pulls other parts of the jacket and yeah
like the physics of that is probably
insane to understand it's absolutely
insane and then you know they they
changed the rules for a little while and
they changed the rules so that you
couldn't hold uh you know that certain
uh grips were not allowed you only
allowed certain amount of time and there
were a lot of penalties for them you
know and then you know they had some of
the exf fighters into the referee
commission and so we were pushing for
just let them grip you know because
that's that's that's our game you know
that's what makes his different you know
again if if grip up with somebody like
so they were on about uh Teddy Renee
yeah Teddy Renee comes out takes a
sleeve yeah big arm over the top and and
then you know he throws people right so
they were saying yeah but stop you can't
stop him doing it this guy is 6' n yeah
and he is built like goth you know he's
like and he's he's and not only that
he's skillful as well you know and and
and he's got that mentality of a winner
he has got that mentality of a winner
there he just wins important matches and
he goes over the top of the goup did
they where is that land now in terms of
rules over the top cuz those are some of
the most epic awesome types of grips
yeah uh just like over the top just big
grab yeah well as long as they throw
from it so they can take any grip as
long as you move them and then catch
them kind of Action Reaction really you
know as long as you catch them on the
Move then you can do it so as long as
you're not using it to stall or that
kind of stuff yeah you can't block out
yeah so I mean if I so like for example
if I've got dominant grip on you and I
just block out I just stop I just stop
you attacking me so then what I get you
three pent penalties get you off and you
haven't done an attack so you've got to
stop that you can't have that yeah yeah
definitely you were the favorite to win
the 1984 Olympics but you got silver I
watched that match several times you
probably having have a playing in your
head so there is uh a nice change of
Direction by your opponent German Frank
Wii yeah it was a fake right uchimata
and then to a left drops
Sagi uh how did that loss
feel devastating is is not you know it's
not enough really um because you know
the strange thing was is coming into
that Olympics I was tired really tired
so my mental state wasn't the best
wasn't certainly the same as it was
coming into the
previous um and I I I remember thinking
I just need to get this over with then
I'm going to have a break and just have
a rest you know and and that's totally
the wrong attitude you it's just not not
good for for going into an Olympic Games
and uh so I I was uh coming in there
with a different mindset and I
remember every match that I had I was
winning well but I was winning with a
struggle you know it was it was really
not I'd fought Novak and I was pretty uh
of France who was one of the strongest
physically uh that was in the quarter I
beat Brett Baron by an ion I I arm
locked him um I won my first match by
ion as well and then Michelle Noak I was
fighting of France and I was lucky to W
to to win it I was up I would scored on
him but I was like starting to defend
and just everything that I talked to you
about you know and then just about held
on and and then I won and you know so
him and I were talking afterwards like
some years afterwards and he said I was
close wasn't I I was yeah but not close
enough I didn't mean it but I had to say
it right of course of course so I and no
he was right you know and it was one of
those so I was through to the semi-final
I fought
lesac uh in the semi-final of uh and uh
I'd fought him in the semi-final of the
worlds as well uh I'd never gone time
with him you know i' never i' always
beaten him fairly easily and with by ion
and um that went time so I was you know
I was I just just glad to get it done
and I was in the final then against
Frank vinar uh of Germany and I'd beaten
Viner before but he was just a young
German coming through and when I started
the final I was uh I thought right I've
just I and I
started uh all my techniques just that
little bit off nothing was
coordinated just it was just I can't
really explain why it was just a little
bit off and I I see it so often now with
um a lot of the guys that are going for
second third Olympic Games and uh I see
their their technique just not quite
there and they're struggling and and I
know when they you know I know what
they're going through and I I kind of
empathize with them well you were it
felt like you were dominating that final
I dominated it yeah I was winning yeah I
was I and and actually if it got another
minute and a half it would have been all
over and I would have been Olympic
champion and it would have been done he
wouldn't have battered an eyelid right
cuz he he would have fought me really
really well and he would have you know
we talked about it afterwards and he
said he just my good day for me you know
and he knows he was very respectful this
guy is very respectful he was surprised
almost I mean not almost he was very
surprised and celebrating like a a
surprise jumping up and down like you
know he do and you know you can look at
that can't you go well it was an ipon
but you know what I got got it back I
don't know I just I think that um
actually taking the pressure off cuz
that was another thing as well pressure
of being favorite you know and I see
that with a lot of them and uh you know
the great Champions the ones that keep
coming through capellic there's a guy
you know he can look very ordinary and
then comes the big tournament and he
he'll win
it the tragedy of the Olympic Games I
mean you were the favorite and just like
that like split moment you lost it split
moment devastating and um lived it
probably not every day but you know
Nikki my wife will tell you that uh
woken up in sweats uh and you know um I
and I think they contributed as well
because I had a period of my my life
after where I was drinking too much and
you know and and I I think kind of uh
when I look back kind of let
into th that that kind of dark period of
my life you know and um I never ever
ever you know did it go through my mind
anything else but it definitely affected
me and I was on a downward kind of
spiral in a lot of different ways and um
would still even you know when we we
have an amazing marriage and we have
amazing family and everything's great
but I still wake up sometimes and I'll
say I've just dreamt you know that and
it's it's the same reoccurring dream
where I'm trying to get somewhere and
I'm trying to put it right you know and
I I I've got this chance of uh putting
this Olympic final right you know in in
in this dream I've got a chance of doing
it but I can't get there and the traffic
stopping me or something stops me and I
you know and then I wake up and I'm
sweating and it's it's and you think
well after all this time that's not
possible but it is and it happens yeah I
mean in the match itself there's that
feeling for for me just watching it like
you're you're going for throws you're
you're almost getting there with the
throws and it's almost like he's going
for a kind of crappy chimata and then
you're just like you're stopping you're
blocking it and all a sudden I mean
that's the beauty of the Olympics he
finds it in himself to switch Yeah in
that like against a favorite against
sort of the Great British judoka just
finds the perfect drop sayanagi
well you know
his um Team doctor and Coach he came up
to me afterwards and said I'm just
really sorry and that's all they said is
I'm just really sorry they were sorry
because you know obviously the obvious
sadness about that you know and and um
of course everybody takes their you know
I went actually two and a was it three
weeks later the German open so he he had
to compete in the German open three
weeks later so I went over to fight him
and uh and beat him in the final of the
German open and it didn't do anything
for me because it was a much tighter
match he was a lot closer he had a lot
more confidence coming in so he fought
me a lot differently and then it was me
pulling it back and just managing to win
in the final and I thought well that
might appease it appeased nothing didn't
do anything when you give your whole
life to Judo just and your love of
winning that's crazy how much the
Olympic Games
mean it it means so much and I I think
you know but I I've got to and I've got
to say this and this is honestly you
know if it meant that if i' have won
that Olympic Games and it had changed my
life into a different direction which I
probably would have not competed in the
88 Olympic Games then all right so if it
had changed my life and then I didn't
have I didn't meet my wife and I you
know didn't have my family that I've got
now there's no um you know I would uh I
wouldn't swap that what I've got now for
anything well part of the demons that
you've gotten to know because of those
losses is part of probably the central
reason that made you the man you are a
legend of the sport you could have been
not that because an Olympic gold is just
an Olympic gold yeah and it is isn't it
you know and I think that there's a lot
of Olympic Champions and world
champions that win and then I
forgotten and I said to uh Nikki I said
um my wife I said I don't want to be
forgotten and I want to be remembered so
if I'm going to do anything anything I
do if I'm going to do commentary or
whatever it is or coaching I want to do
coaching to a high level and I want to
commentate at a high level I remember
the first commentary I ever did it was
terrible and and I just thought I've got
to do better than this and I I thought I
just I need to do it well and I've got
to do it professionally so in the book A
Game of throws you have a chapter titled
lessons and losing so what are some of
the lessons here what are the some of
the deeper lessons you've pulled out of
losing I think great Champions are made
up of the
people that handle it in the right
way and you could say well I I don't
like losing and I you know and you could
throw your dummy out the prom and
you can be a bad loser in front of
everybody and actually people pick up on
that very very quickly you know what
it's like in broadcasting right somebody
has a a bad word to say about somebody
and Y and you it but but actually the