Kind: captions
Language: en
where are we right now Paul Lex we are
in the middle of
nowhere it's the Amazon jungle there's
vegetation there's insects there's all
kinds of creatures a million heartbeats
a million eyes so uh really where are we
right now we are in Peru in a very
remote part of the western Amazon basin
and because of the proximity of the
andian cloud forest to the lowland
tropical rainforest we are in the most
biodiverse part of planet Earth there's
more life
per square acre per square mile out here
than there is anywhere else on Earth not
just now but in the entire fossil
record the following is a conversation
with Paul Rosy his second time in the
podcast but this time we did the
conversation deep in the Amazon jungle I
traveled there to hang out with Paul and
it turned out to be an adventure of a
lifetime I will post a video capturing
some aspects of that Adventure in a week
or so it included everything from
getting lost in dense unexplored
Wilderness with no contact to the
outside world to taking very high doses
of
iasa and much more Paul by the way aside
from being my good friend is a
naturalist Explorer author and is
someone who has dedicated his life to
protecting the rainforest for this
Mission he founded jungle Keepers you
can help him if you go to Jungle
keepers.com
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Paul
rosley I can't believe we're actually
here I can't believe you actually came
and I can't believe you forced me to
wear a
suit that was the People's Choice trust
me all right we've been through quite a
lot over the last few days we've been
through a bit let me ask you a
ridiculous
question what are all the creatures
right now if they wanted to could uh
cause us harm the thing is the Amazon
rainforest has been described as the
greatest natural Battlefield on Earth
because there's more life here than
anywhere else which means that
everything here is fighting for survival
the trees are fighting for sunlight the
animals are fighting for prey
everybody's fighting for survival so
everything that you see here everything
around us will be killed eaten digested
recycled at some point the jungle is
really just a giant churning machine of
death and life is kind of this moment of
stasis where you you maintain this
collection of cells in a particular DNA
sequence and then and then it gets
digested again and recycled back and
renamed into
everything and uh so so the things the
things in this Forest while they don't
want to hurt us there are things that
are heavily defended because for
instance a giant anteater needs claws to
fight off a Jaguar a stingray needs a
stinger on its tail which is basically a
serrated knife with Venom on it to deter
anything that would hunt that Stingray
even the catfish have pectoral fins that
have razor long steak Knife sized
defense systems then you have of course
the Jaguars The Harpy eagles the piranha
the candiru fish that can swim up a
penis Lodge themselves inside it's the
Amazon rainforest the thing is as you've
learned this week nothing here wants to
get us with the except exception of
maybe
mosquitoes every other animal just just
wants to eat and exist in peace that's
it but there is each of those animals
like could describe have a kind of
radius of Defense so if you accidentally
step into its home yeah into that radius
it can cause harm or make them feel
threatened make them feel threatened
there is a defense mechanism that is
activated some incredible defense
mechanisms I mean you're talking about
17t black cayman crocodiles that with
significant size that could rip you in
half anacondas the largest snake on
earth Bush Masters that can grow up to
be nine to I think even 11 ft long and
I've caught Bush Masters that are
thicker than my arms so for people who
don't know Bushmaster snakes what are
these things these are vipers it's the
LGE I believe it's the largest Viper on
Earth venomous extremely venomous with
hinged teeth tissue destroying Venom
like if you get bitten by a Bushmaster
they say you don't you don't rush and
try and save your own life you try to
savor what's around you look at look
around at the world smoke your last
cigarette call your mom that's it so
that moment of stasis that is life is
going to end abruptly when you interact
with one of those yeah I even have even
this this seemingly can I just pause at
how incredibly beautiful it is that you
could just reach to your right and grab
a piece of the Jungle it's like it's
like a even this seemingly beautiful
little Fern if you if you go this way on
the fern you're fine as soon as ow as
soon as you go this way there's
invisible little spikes on there if you
want
to oh I see I feel see that so like
everything is defended if you're driving
on the road and you have your arm out
the or if you're on a motorcycle going
through the jungle and you get one of
these it'll just tear all the skin right
off your body it's kind of doing that to
me now so what what would you do like we
were going through the dense
jungle
yesterday and you slide down the hill
your foot slips you slideing down and
then you find yourself staring a couple
feet away from a bush Master snake what
are you doing you're for people somehow
don't know are somebody who loves
admires snakes who has met thousands of
the snakes has worked with them respects
them celebrates them what would you do
with a bush Master snake face to face
face to face this has happened um I've
been there it's nice um I've come face
to face with the bushmaster and there's
two things there's two reactions that
you might get one is if the bushmaster
decides that it's vacation time if it's
sleeping if he just had a meal they'll
come to the edges of trails or beneath a
tree and they'll just circle up little
spiral big spiral big pile of snake on
the trail and they'll just sit there and
one time there was a snake sitting on
the side of a trail beneath a tree for 2
weeks this snake was just sitting there
resting digesting his food out in the
open in the rain in the sun in the night
didn't matter you go near it barely even
crack a
tongue now the other option is that you
get a Bushmaster that's alert and
hunting and out looking for something to
eat and they're ready to defend
themselves and so I once came across a
Bushmaster in the jungle at night and
this
Bushmaster turned its head towards me
looked at me and made it very clear I'm
going to go this way and so I did the
natural thing that any snake Enthusiast
would do and I grabbed its tail now 11t
later by the head the snake turned
around and just said if you want to meet
God I can arrange the meeting I will
oblige and I decided to let the
bushmaster go MH and so it's it's like
that with most animals you know a Jaguar
will turn and look at you and just
remind you of how small you are like
what did you see in the snake's eyes
what how did you sense that this is not
the right this is not this is going to
be your end if you proceed his Readiness
I I I wanted to get him by the tail and
show him to the people that were there
and maybe work with the snake a little
bit as an 11 foot snake he the snake
turned around and made it very clear
like not today pal it's not going to
happen is in the eyes and the movement
and the tension of the body the movement
it was the movement and the S of the
neck it was it was it was as if you
pushed me and I went let's go make my
day yeah like he just looked a little
bit too yeah too ready he's like I love
this okay all right so you know you just
know you just know whereas like the
snake you met last night yeah beautiful
snake such a calm little thing he just
focuses on eating baby lizards and
little snails and things and that snake
has no concept of Defending itself it
has no way to defend itself so even a
even something the size of a blue jay
could just come and just Peck that thing
in the head and swallow it and it's a
helpless little snake so it's it's
really it kind of depends on the animal
depends on the mood you catch him in
each one has a different temperament the
grace of its movement was mesmerizing
curious almost maybe I'm the prizing
projecting onto it but it was the tongue
flicking was a sign of curiosity was
trying to figure out what was going on I
like why am I on this treadmill of human
skin you know they're just just trying
to get to the next thing trying to get
hidden trying to get away from the light
also the texture of the scales is really
fascinating I mean it's my first the
first Nick I've ever touched is so
interesting it just such an incredible
system of muscles that are all
interacting together to make that kind
of movement work and all the texture of
its skin of its scales what what do you
love about snakes from my first
experience with a snake to all the
thousands of experiences you had with
snakes what do you love about these
creatures I think it's when you just
spoke about it it was that's the first
snake you've met and it was a tiny
little snake in the jungle and you spoke
about it with so much light in your eyes
and I think that because we've been
programmed to be scared of snakes
there's something there's something
wondrous that happens in our brain maybe
maybe it's just this this this Joy of
discovery that there's nothing to be
scared of and whether it's a rattlesnake
that is dangerous and that you need to
give distance to but you look at it from
a distance and you go whoa or it's a
harmless little grass snake that you can
pick up and enjoy and give to a child
it's they're just these strange legless
animals that just exist you know they
don't even have eyelids they're so
different than us they have a tongue
that sens senses the air and they to me
are so beautiful and I've I've my whole
life been defending snakes from humans
and it's it's they seem misunderstood I
think they're incredibly beautiful
there's every color and variety of
snakes there's venomous snakes there's
tree snakes there's huge crushing
anacondas it's just of the
2,600 species of snakes that exist on
Earth there's just such beauty such
complexity and such Simplicity they're
just they're just to me to me um I feel
like I feel like I'm I'm friend with
snake and and they rely on me to protect
them from my
people friend was snake me friend snake
me friend snake you said some of them
are sometimes aggressive some of them
are peaceful is this a mood thing a
personality thing a species thing is it
what is it so as far as I know there's
only really two snakes on earth that
could be aggressive because aggression
indicates uh uh offense and so a
reticulated python has been documented
as eating humans anacondas although
while it hasn't been publicized they
have eaten humans um every single other
snake from Boa constrictor to to Bush
Master to spitting cobra to grass snake
to gter snake to everything else every
single other snake does not want to
interact with you they have no interest
so there's no such thing as an
aggressive snake once you get outside of
anaconda and reticulated python
aggression could be trying to eat you
that's pration
but for every other snake a rattlesnake
if it was there would either go escape
and hide itself or it would rattle its
tail and tell us don't come closer a
cobra will Hood up and begin to hiss and
say don't approach me I'm asking you
nicely not to mess with me and most
other snakes are fast or they stay in
the trees or they're extremely
camouflaged but their wholeo is just
don't bother me I don't want to be seen
I don't want to be messed with in fact
all I want to be do is be left alone and
once in a while I just want to eat and
by the way when you see a snake drink
your heart will break it's like seeing
it's the only thing that's cuter than a
puppy like watching a snake touch its
mouth to water and just you just see
that that little mouth going as they
suck water in and it's like it's just so
adorable watching this scaled animal
just be like I need water in a state of
vulnerability yeah but bro there's
nothing cuter than a little puppy with a
tongue like baby ball python all right
baby king cob baby elephant so what are
there they're like at a puddle and they
just take it in they can be at a puddle
and they just take it in or one time in
India I was with a snake rescuer and we
found this 9 foot king cobra this this
God of a snake they're opio fagus Hannah
is their Latin name and they're they're
snake eaters they're the king of the
snakes the largest venomous
snake and the people that call called
The Snake
rescuer cuz that's a profession in India
um you know it had gotten into their
kitchen or their backyard and so we
showed up and we got the snake and the
snake rescuer he knew he looked at the
snake and he went to me he said you know
why do you think this snake would go in
a house and he was quizzing me and I
actually went you know I don't know is
it warm is it cold you know like
sometimes cats like to go into into the
warm warm cars in the winter and he was
like is thirsty he goes watch this he
took a water bottle poured it over now
the snake is standing up the snake
stands up 3T tall this is a huge king
cobra with a hood terrifying snake to be
around he leans over to the snake and
the snake is standing there trusting him
and he takes a water bottle and pours it
onto the snake's nose and the snake
turns up its nose and just starts
drinking from the water bottle human
giving water to snake big scary snake
but this human understood snake gets
water snake gets released in Jungle
everybody is okay so sometimes the
needs are simple they just don't have
the words to communicate them to us
humans yeah and is it disinterest or is
it fear almost like they don't notice
this or is it where Source the unknown
aspect of it the uncertainty is a is a
source of danger well animals live in a
constant state of danger like if you
look at that deer that we saw last night
it's stalking Through the Jungle
wondering what's going to eat it
wondering if this is the last moment
it's going to be alive it's like animals
are constantly terrified of that this is
their last moment yeah just for the
listener we're walking through the
jungle late at night so Darkness except
our headlamps on and then all of a
sudden Paul stops he's like sh he looks
in the distance he sees two eyes he's I
think you thought is that a jaguar or is
it a deer and it was moving its head
like this MH like uh scared or maybe
trying to figure trying to localize
itself trying to figure out trying to
see around doing the same to it the two
of you like moving your head yeah and
like deep into the jungle like I don't
know uh it's pretty far away through the
trees you can still see it 30 30 ft or
so yeah that's the thing to actually
mention I mean the with headlamp you see
the reflection their eyes it's kind of
incredible just to see a creature to try
to identify a creature by just the the
Reflection from its eyes yeah and so the
cats sometimes you'll get like a
greenish or a bluish glow from the cats
the deer are usually white to arm orange
Cayman orange night jars orange snakes
can usually be like orange moths um
spiders Sparkle and so you have all
these different as you walk through the
jungle you can see all these different
eyes and when something large looks at
you like that deer did your first thing
is what animal is this that I am staring
back at cuz through the light you kind
of get you see the reflection off the
the bright light off the leaves and I
couldn't tell at first cuz I actually
those big bright eyes could have been an
ocelot could have been a Jaguar could
have been a deer and then when it did
this movement that's what the cats do
they try to see around your
light thought maybe Lex Freeman's here
we're going to get lucky it's going to
be a Jag right off Trail your definition
of Lucky is a complicated one yeah it's
a fascinating process when you see those
two eyes trying to figure out what it is
and it is trying to figure out what you
are that process uh let's talk about
cman we've seen a lot of different kinds
of size we've seen a baby one a bigger
one tell me about these uh 16 foot plus
apex predators of the Amazon rainforest
the big bad black cayman which is the
largest reptilian predator in the Amazon
except for the Anaconda they kind of
both share that that that Notch of apex
predator they were actually hunted to
endangered species level in the 70s cuz
they're they're leather Black Scale
leather but they're coming back they're
coming back and they're huge and they're
beautiful and I was I was walking near a
lake and I never understood how big they
could get except for I was walking near
a lake last year and I was following the
stream you know what it's like when you
f a little stream and there's just a
little trickle of water and all of a
sudden this River had been running the
other direction on the tree on the
stream River comes up to me and I swear
to God this animal looked to me went hey
and I went hey he like didn't expect to
see me there and he turned around he
like did a little spin started running
down the stream then he turned around
and you could tell he was like let's go
and I you know I'm not
anthropomorphizing here the animal was
asking me to come with him so I followed
the river down the stream we started
running down the stream and the river
looks at me one more time is like yo
jumps into the lake and I'm like what
does he want me to see now in the lake
there's River ERS doing Dives and
freaking out and going up and down and
up and down and they're very excited
they're screaming they're
screeching all of a sudden and I've
never seen anything like this except for
in like Game of Thrones this crackhead
comes flying out of the water all of the
river ERS were attacking this huge black
cman 16
head half the size of this table and she
was thrashing her tail around creating
these huge waves in the water trying to
catch an otter and they're so fast that
they were zipping around her biting her
and then going around and this otter
swear to God inter species looked at me
and went watch this we're fucking with
this C it was amazing and I for the
first time I got to stand there watching
this incredible interspecies fight
happening they weren't trying to kill
the Cayman they were just trying to mess
with it m and the Cayman was doing his
best to try trying and kill these otter
and they were just having a good time in
that sick sort of hyper intelligent
animal like wolf sort of way where they
were just going you can't catch us yeah
like intelligence and Agility versus
like raw power and dominance I mean I
got the
handle some smaller Cay in and just the
power they had you know you scale that
up to imagine what a 16t even a 10 foot
any any kind of black hon the kind of
power they deliver maybe can you talk to
that like
the power they can generate with their
tail with their neck with their jaw
alligators and Cayman and crocodiles
have some of the strongest bite forces
on Earth think a saltwater crocodile
wins as the strongest bite force on
Earth and you got to hold about a what
was it a 4 foot spectacle
Cayman and you got to feel I mean you're
a black belt in Jiu-Jitsu how do you how
do you compare the the explosive force
you felt from that animal compared to
what a human can generate
it's uh it's difficult to describe in
words there's a lot of power and we're
talking about the power of the neck like
the what is it I mean there's a lot it
can generate power all up and down the
body so probably the tail is a monster
mhm but just just the neck and you know
not not to mention the the power of the
bite that and the speed too because uh
the thing I saw and got to experience is
how still and calm at least from my
amateur perspective it seems
calm uh still and then from that sort of
0 to 60 could just just go wi it's
thrashing and then there's also a
decision it makes in that Split Second
whether uh as it thrashes is it going to
kind of bite you on the way or not M and
that's where that's where of the four
species of Cayman that we have here you
see differences in their personalities
as a species and so you can like just
like you know like gener
golden retrievers are viewed as a as a
friendly dog generally not every single
one of them but as a
rule spectacle came in puppies You
released one in the river and it did
nothing didn't bite one of your fingers
it just swam away
mhm we dropped one in the river and what
did it do it chose peace now I had a
smooth fronted Cayman a few weeks ago
and this was probably about a three and
a half footer not big enough to kill you
but very much big enough to grab one of
your fingers and just shake it off your
body just death roll right off and as I
was being careful totally different
Cayman than the one that you got to see
this one has spikes coming off it
they're like like like left over
dinosaurs it's like they evolved during
the dinosaur times and never changed
they have spikes and bony plates and all
kinds of strange growths That You Don't
See on the other smoother Cayman and I
tried to release this one without
getting bitten and I threw it into the
stream gently into the water just went
wah and tried to pull my hands back and
as I pulled my hand back this came and
in the air turned around and just tried
to give me one parting blow and just got
one tooth whack right to the bone of my
finger and uh uh bone injury feels
different than a skin injury so you in
instantly and it just reminds you of
that's a came in with a head this big
and it hurt and I know that it could
have taken off my finger now if you
scale that up to a black
cman it's it's rib crushing it's it's
zebra head removing size you know just
just meat destroying it's it's incred
it's Nature's metal sort of you know
just raw power so what's the the the
biggest croc you've been able to handle
we were doing Cayman surveys for years
and we would go out at night and you
want to figure out what are the
populations of black cayman spectacle
Cayman smooth fry Cayman dwarf Cayman
and the only way to see which Cayman
you're dealing with is to catch it
because a lot of times you get up close
with the light and you can see the eyes
at night but you can't quite see what
species it is for instance this past few
months we found two baby black cayman on
the river which is unprecedented here we
haven't seen that in decades so it's
important that we monitor our Croc
population so I started catching small
ones um in mother God I write about the
first one that me and JJ caught together
which was probably a little bigger than
this table and uh probably mid 20s
bravado and competition with other young
males of my species led to
me trying to go as big as I could mhm
and I jumped on a spectacle came that
was slightly longer than I am and I'm
5'9 so I I jumped on this probably 6ot
Croc and quickly realized that my hands
couldn't get around its neck and my legs
were wrapped around the base of its tail
and the thrash was so intense that as it
took me one side I barely had enough
time to realize what was happening
before it beat me against the ground my
headlamp came off so now I'm blind in
the dark laying in a river in the Amazon
rainforest hugging a 6ot
crocodile and I went
JJ as I always do but I in that moment
before I even let go I knew I couldn't
let go of the Croc because if I let go
of the Croc I thought she was going to
destroy my face so I said okay now I'm
stuck here if I just stay here I can't
release her I need help but I was like
I'm never ever ever ever going to try
and solo catch a Croc this big again I
was like this is this is I knew in that
moment I was like this is good enough so
anything longer than you you don't have
control of the tail you don't have you
have barely control of anything really
yeah and that's a spectacle came black
cman is a is a whole other order of
magnitude there it's like saying like oh
you know I I was play fighting with my
golden retriever versus I was play
fighting with like you know what what's
the biggest scariest dog you could think
of the the dog from Sandlot a giant
gorilla dog thing like a like a malamu
something something huge what do they
call Mastiffs yeah mffs I mean you
mentioned dinosaurs what what do you
admire about black cayman what they've
been here for a very very long time
there's something something prehistoric
about their appearance about their way
of being about their presence in this
jungle with crocodiles you're looking at
this this Mega Survivor they're in a
class with sharks where it's like
they've been here so long when you talk
about multiple extinctions you talk
about the sixth Extinction Earth's going
through all this stuff the crocodiles
and the Cockroaches have seen it all
before they're like man we remember what
that Comet looked like and they're not
impressed yeah they have this they carry
this wisdom and their power yeah in the
Simplicity of their power they carry the
wisdom yeah and they're just sitting
there in the streams and they don't care
and even if there's a nuclear Holocaust
you know that there would just be some
Crocs sitting there dead eyed in that
stagnant water waiting for the life to
regenerate so they could eat again it's
going to be the remaining humans versus
the Crocs and the Cockroaches and the
Cockroaches are just background noise
yeah they'll always be there sons of
bitches you know we're talking about
individual black cayman and Cayman and
different species of Cayman but when
whenever they're together and you see
multiple eyes which I gotten to
experience it it's quite a feeling
there's just multiple eyes looking back
at you
mhm of course for you that's uh
immediate
excitement you immediately go towards
that you want to see it you want to
explore it maybe catch them analyze what
the species is all that kind of stuff
yeah what's can you just describe that
feeling when they're together and
they're looking at you so head above
water eyes reflecting the light yeah so
the other night Lex and I were in the
river with JJ surviving a thunderstorm
we're in the rain and we had covered
our covered our equipment with our boats
and the only thing that we could do was
get in the in the river to keep
ourselves dry and so we were in the
river at night in the dark no stars just
a little bit of canopy silhouetted with
all this rain coming down it was such a
d you could hardly hear anything and all
the way down river I just see this Cay
and ey in my head lamp light
mhm and I started walking towards it
because I was like this is even better
we can catch a Cayman while we're in
this thunderstorm in the Amazon River
and uh when JJ went Paul it's too
far JJ very rarely very rarely like
he'll he'll make a suggestion like he'll
usually go like maybe it's far but in
that situation deep in the wilderness
unknown Cayman size he went Paul it's
too far don't leave the three of us
right now yeah were too far out to take
risks we're too far out to be walking
along the riverbed at night because then
you know right here at the research
station if you step on a stingray you
get Evac out where we
went nothing so so for me seeing those
eyes I think I've become so comfortable
with so many of these animals that I I
may have crossed into the territory
where I feel I feel so comfortable with
with many of these animals that they
just don't worry me anymore I mean you
were I I I looked looked at you in a
raft while you had a sizable probably
about 12T black cayman right next to
your raft I watched its head go under
bubbles the bubbles it was all coming up
right next to your raft as he he was
just moving along the bottom of the
river cuz he looked at me went under and
then my raft passed and yours came over
him so now I'm looking back and your
raft is going over this black cayman and
I'm going I'm not worried at all I was
not worried I was not worried that the
Cayman would freak
out I was not worried that he would try
to attack you I knew 100% that came and
just wanted us to go so you could go
back to eating fish yeah that's it man
it's humbling it's humbling these giant
creatures and especially at night like
you were talking about and for me it's
both scary but and just beautiful when
the head goes under H cuz like
underwater it's their domain so anything
can happen so what is it doing that is
its head is going under it could be
bored it could be hungry looking for
some fish it could be maybe wanting to
come closer to you to investigate maybe
you have some food around you maybe it's
an old friend of yours and just wants to
say hi I don't know I have a few on the
river old friends um no when we see
their heads go under it's just they're
just getting out of the way we're we're
shining a light at them and they're
going why is there a light at night I'm
uncomfortable head under so these came
and again you think of it as this big
aggressive animal but I don't know
anybody that's been eaten by a black
cayman and the the smaller species
smooth fronted Cay and dwarf Cayman
spectacle Cayman they're not going to
eat any but again at the worst if you
were doing something inappropriate with
a Cayman like you jumped on it and were
trying to to do research and and it bit
your hand it could take your hand off
but that's the only time I've been
walking down the river and stepped on a
Cayman and the Cayman just swims away
and so in my mind Cayman are just these
they're peaceful dragons that sit on the
side of the river and so to me they are
my friends and I worry about them
because two months ago we were coming up
River and on one of the beaches was a
beautiful about 5 foot black cayman with
a big machete cut right through the head
the whole Cayman was wasted nothing was
eaten but the Cayman was dead what do
you think that was curious humans just
committing
violence yeah just loggers people who
aren't from this part of the Amazon
because a local person would either eat
the animal or not mess with it like pico
would never kill a Cayman for no reason
because it doesn't make any sense so
these are clearly people who aren't from
the region which usually means loggers
because they've come from somewhere else
they're doing a job here and they
they're just cleaning their pots in the
river at night and they see eyes come
near them because the Cayman probably
smells fish and then they just whack cuz
they want to see it and they're just
curious monkeys on a
beach and again me friend of Cayman I
protect from my type that said you know
you uh protect your friends and you
analyze and study your friends but
sometimes friends can have a bit of a
misunderstanding and if you have a bit
of a misunderstanding with the black
cayman I feel like just a bit of a
misunderstanding could lead to a uh bone
crushing situation but not for a little
five foot Cayman and I think that's
incredibly speciesist w a ball humans or
a ball
Cayman no like all my friends do the
same thing they go you swim in the
Amazon rainfall you know you swim in
that River and I go yes every day we you
know back flips into the river we've
been swimming in the river how many
times with the piranha and the stingray
and the candiru and the Cayman and the
anacondas all of it in the river with
us and we just do it and what's that for
you so what what allows you to doing
that to do that knowing and having
researched all the different things that
can kill you which I feel like most of
them are in the river MH what allows you
to just get in there with us well I
think it's something about you where you
become like the portal through which
it's possible to see nature is not
threatening but beautiful and so in that
you kind of Naturally by hanging out
with you I get to see the beauty of it U
there is danger out there but the danger
is part of it just like there's a lot of
danger in the city there's danger in
life there's a lot of ways to get hurt
emotionally physically there's a lot of
ways to die in the stupidest of ways we
went on a Expedition through the forest
just twisting your ankle breaking your
foot um getting a bite from a thing that
gets infected it's there's a lot of ways
to die and get hurt in the stupidest
ways in a non-dramatic Cayman eating you
alive kind of way yeah it it it strikes
me as unfair because humans we still in
our minds so so programmed to worry
about that Predator that Predator that
Predator what predator we've killed
everything black Caymans are coming off
the endangered species list we
exterminated wolves from North America I
actually heard a Suburban lady one time
tell her son watch out foxes will get
you mhm foxes yeah they eat baby rabbits
and mice well in the case of apex
predators I think when people say
dangerous
animals they really are talking about
just the power of the
animal and the black came have a lot of
power lot of power and it's almost just
a way to celebrate the power of the
animal sure and if it's in celebration
then I'm all for it because my God is
that power like the waves of of of fear
that you saw like when that tail I mean
you saw you saw the tail of the
spectacle that perfect amazing thing
with all those interlocking scales that
work so it's like a perfect creation of
engineering and then and then when you
have one that's this thick and all of a
sudden that thing is moving with all the
acceleration of that power W the volume
of water the sound that comes out of
their throat they're such they're
dragons we talked about the scales of
the snake but like they came in just the
way it felt yeah was uh incredible just
the armor the texture of it was so cool
I don't know like the the the bottom one
came in have a certain kind of texture
and it just all feels like power but
also all feels like designed really well
it's like it's like
exploring through touch like a World War
II tank or something like that just it's
the engineering that went into this
thing yeah that like the mechanism of
evolution that created a thing that
could survive for such a long time it's
just like incredible this is a work of
art the PO you know the defense
mechanisms the power of it the damage it
can do uh how effective it is as a
hunter all of that all you could feel
that in just by touching it do you ever
see the the mashup where they put side
by side the image of I think it's a
falcon in Flight next to a stealth
bomber and they're almost the exact same
design it's incredible like that what's
the equivalent for for a Croc
maybe a tank like more like armadillo
Turtle I don't know like H and yeah
there may not be a a machine a war
machine equivalent of a crocodile it
would have to have like
a big jaw element to it yeah the water I
mean we we talked also about hippos
those are interesting creatures from all
the way across the world just monsters
yeah hippos and rhinos hippos are bigger
usually or rhinos are bigger rhinos
rhinos is after elephants is the largest
white rhinos they can be terrifying too
again when you step into the defense
absolutely but I have to tell you after
being around so many rhinos your friends
you have friend I have Rhino friends
black and white rhinos Y and uh they're
all sweethearts and I mean I mean
sweethearts and I mean when you look at
a
rhino it's like a living dinosaur I know
it's a mammal but somehow it screams
dinosaur because it seems like penic and
and and from another age with the giant
horn and they're so much bigger than you
think like they're minivan sized animals
like you're you're we're not taller than
they are at the shoulder and they have
the strange shaped head and the huge
horn and they sit there eating grass all
day so if a rhino is dangerous to a
human it's because the Rhino is going
don't hurt me don't hurt me don't don't
hurt my baby and then they're like you
know what I'll just kill you it'll be
easier because you're scaring me right
now you're too close to that Rhino
yeah and so like there again I just
think it's funny because humans were so
quickly to go which snakes are
aggressive well there are no aggressive
snakes you know rhinos can be dangerous
if provoked otherwise they're peaceful
fat grass unicorns you know like they're
they're really pretty calm we have these
incredible giant animals and the largest
animals on our planet the black cman the
Rhinos the elephants all the big
beautiful stuff is becoming less and
less yeah and it almost reminds me like
in Game of Thrones they're like yeah
they in the beginning they're like yeah
there used to be dragons and it was like
this memory and it's like yeah we used
to have mammoth mys and we we used to
have Stellar sea cows that were 16 ft
long manatees and it's there were things
we used to have the Caspian tiger that
only went extinct in the '90s our
lifetimes and it's that that's
mind-blowing to me that's that that has
haunted me since I'm a child I remember
learning about Extinction and I went
wait you're telling me that I remember
being a kid and going by the time I grow
up you're saying that I gorillas could
be gone elephants could be gone and
because we're doing it and then I I just
that I I remember I remember looking at
the the NightLight being blurry cuz I
was crying I was so upset and oh and it
was Lonesome George that Turtle the
Galapagos T us where there was one left
and they said if we just if we just had
a female he could live and as a six
seven eight-year-old that destroyed me
we're all just starting to get laid
including that Turtle including that
Turtle for a few hundred years
dude so for young people out there you
think you're having trouble think about
that Turtle think about that turtle
yeah you know there's a turtle that
Darwin and Steve Irwin both owned yeah
yeah I heard about that turtle man they
live a long time yeah they've seen
things they've seen things that there's
a there's a great like internet joke
where they're like they're like accusing
him of like being uh in congruous with
modern times they're like he did nothing
to stop slavery he didn't fight in World
War II like canel the turtle yeah
canceled the turtle oh shit what a world
we live in so it's interesting you
mentioned black and and uh anacondas are
both apex
predators so it seems like the reason
they can exist in similar environments
is cu they feed on slightly different
things how is it possible for them to
coexist I read that anacondas can eat
Cay but not black cayman how often do
they come in Conflict so anacondas and
Cayman occupy the exact same Niche M and
they're born at almost the exact same
size and unlike most species they don't
have sort of a size range that they're
confined to they start at this big baby
Cayman are this big baby anacondas are a
little longer but they're they're
thinner and they don't have legs so it's
the same thing in in terms of mass and
they're all in the streams or at the
edges of lakes or swamps and so the baby
anacondas eat the baby Cayman baby
Cayman can't really take down an
anaconda they're they're going for
little insects and fish they they have a
quite a small mouth so they again it's
in their interest to hide from
everything a bird a heron can eat a baby
Cay pop it back and so they have to
survive but the Anaconda and the Cayman
kind of kind of joust as they grow can
you actually explain how the Anaconda
would take down a Cayman like would it
first uh use constriction and then eat
it or what's the meth methodology yeah
so anacondas have a kind of a I don't
know like a three-point constriction
system where their first thing is
Anchor like Jiu-Jitsu so first thing is
latch on to you I like how I'm writing
this down like all right this is jit's
like a master class here this is for
when you're wrestling in Anaconda just
in
case and you'll be like the coach and
the sideline
SC uh don't let him take the back yeah
all right so so one time me and JJ were
following a herd of Collard pecker and
JJ's teaching me tracking so we're
following you know the the hoofprints
through the mud and we're doing this and
I'm talking about no backpacks just
machetes bare feet running through the
jungle and we come to this stream and
JJ's like I think we missed him you know
I think they went and I'm like no no no
they went here look and not cuz I'm a
great tracker cuz I can see H you know a
few dozen Footprints hundreds of
individual Footprints right there and
I'm going no no they just crossed here
and JJ was like you know what we're not
going to get eyes on him today he was
like it's okay he's like we did good we
followed him for a long time and I was
like cool and then I was trying to gauge
like can I drink this stream and I see
aula and aula is a salt deposit where
animals come to to feed cuz sodium is is
is a deficiency that most herbivores
have here and all of a sudden I just
hear like the sound of a wet stick
snapping just that bone
Crunch and I look down and there's about
a 16 foot anaconda wrapped around a
freshly killed pecky wild boore and what
this Anaconda had done was as the all
the pigs were going across the stream
the Anaconda had grabbed it by the the
jaw swiped the legs wrapped around it
bent it in half and then crushed Its
Ribs and that's what the Anaconda do
whether it's to mammals to Cayman it's
all the same thing it's grab on they
have six rows of backwards facing teeth
so once they hit you they're never going
to come off you actually have to go
deeper in and then open before you can
come out all those backward facing teeth
so they have an incredible anchor system
and then they use their weight to pull
you down to Hell to pull you down into
that water wrap around you and then
start breaking you and Every Breath You
Take you go and you you're up against a
barrier and then when you when you
exhale they go a little tighter and
you're never going to get that space
back your lungs are never going to
expand again and I know this because
I've been in that Crush before JJ pulled
me out of it and so this pig the
Anaconda had gotten it and as the pig
was thrashing and the Anaconda was
wrapping around had bent it in half and
I just heard those vertebrae going yeah
and so for it's the same thing they just
grab and they wrap around it and then
they have to crush it until there's no
response they'll wait an hour they'll
wait a long time until there's no
response from the animal they'll
overpower it then they'll then they'll
reposition probably yawn a little bit
open their jaw and then start forcing
that entire now here's the crazy thing
is that an anaconda has stomach acid
capable of digesting an entire crocodile
where nothing comes out the other side
and when you see how thick the Bony
plate of a crocodile skull is that that
can go in the mouth and nothing comes
out the other side that's insane and so
it always made me wonder on a chemistry
level how you can have such incredible
acid in the stomach that doesn't harm
the Anaconda
itself and someone said but it's able to
digest oh it's some kind of mucus oh the
MU mu there's oh interesting there's
levels of protection from the Anaconda
itself but it seems like the anacon is
such a simple system as an organism know
like that simpl taking a scale could
just do the can swallow a Cayman and
digest it slowly I know but my question
was how how on Earth is it physically
possible to have this hellish bile that
can digest anything even something as as
as horrendous as a as a a c in scales
and bones and all the hardest shit in
nature and then not hurt the snake
itself and I had a chemist explained to
me that it's probably some sort of mucus
system that that lines the stomach and
and neutralizes the and keeps it
floating in there but my God that must
be powerful stuff so what does it feel
like being crushed choked by an
anaconda uh you when an anaconda is
wrapped around you and you you find
yourself in in the in the shocking
realization that these could be your
last moments breathing you are
confronted with the vast disparity and
power that there is so much power in
these animals so much crushing
deliberate reptilian ancient power that
doesn't care they're just trying to get
you to stop they just want you to stop
ticking and there's nothing you can do
and there's I find it very a inspiring
when I encounter that kind of power when
you even if it's that you see you know
you see a dog run you know you ever try
to outrun a dog and they just Zip by you
and you go wow you know or you see a
horse kick and you go oh my God if that
if that hoof hit anyone's head it'd
knock them three states over and it's
like it's like there there is muscular
power that is so far that like you said
that
explosive that we we dream of doing it
like imagine if like a a Muay Tha
kickboxer could could harness that sort
of Cayman power that
smash um and so it's it's just a
inspiring I think it's really really
impressive what animals can do and we're
we're all you know we're all the same
sort of makeup for the most part all the
mammals you know we all have our skele
skeletons look so similar we all have
like you know if you look like a kangar
biceps and chest it looks so much like a
like a like a a man's and if same thing
goes for a bear or you ever see a naked
chimp like chimps with alopecia oh shit
and so it's shed it looks like a
bodybuilder like it's got cuts and huge
huge everything like it's got pecs and
they got that face that's just like just
let me in what no where's your wallet
yeah do something but yeah but there's a
the specialization of a life
time of doing damage to the world and
using those muscles it just makes you
makes you just that much more powerful
than most humans cuz humans I guess
have more brain so they get lazy they
start puzzle solving versus you know
using the biceps directly well yes and
no and I have this question okay so I
you know that whole you are what you eat
thing now we one time here had two
chickens now one of them was a wild
chicken like from the farm had walked
around its whole life finding insects
and the other chicken was like Factory
raised mhm and so we cut the heads off
of both of them started getting ready to
cook them now the factory raised chicken
was like a much higher percentage of fat
had less muscle on its body with softer
tissue a a lighter color the farm raised
chicken had darker more seny muscles
less fat was clearly a better-made
machine and so my question is is that
what's happening with us you know like
if you go see a sherpa who's been
walking his whole life and pulling you
know and walking behind mus coxes and
lifting things up mountains and
breathing clean air and not being in the
City versus someone that's just been
chowing down at IHOP for 40 years and
never getting off the couch like I
imagine it's the same thing that you you
become what you eat yeah I mean like you
and I we're like half dead running up a
mountain meanwhile there's a grandma
just like walking and she's been walking
that road and she's just built different
with her alpaca on her shoulders with a
baby and she
just they're just build different when
you when you apply your body in a
physical way your whole life yeah like
you can't replicate that like like just
like that chimp has those from
constantly moving through the canopy
constantly using those arms just like if
you you know if you see an
Olympic Athlete or you hug
Rogan exactly you just go what why is
there so much muscle
here that's exactly what I uh what I
feel like when you give him a hug this
is this is definitely a chimp of some
sort how how does that uh just just that
the constriction of the Anaconda just
the the the feeling of that
I are they doing that based on inst
instinct or is there some brain stuff
going on like is this just like a basic
procedure that they're doing and they
just really don't give a damn they're
not like thinking oh
Paul this is this kind of species he
would taste good or is it just a
mechanism just start activating and you
can't stop it with an anaconda I really
think it's the second one I do think
that they're impressive and beautiful
and Incredibly Arcane I think they're a
very simple system a very ancient system
and I think that once you once you hit
predation mode it's going down no matter
what the stupid mosquito I'm going like
this and every time he just flies around
my hand like I'm a big Slow
Giant and he just goes around my hand
and then he goes back to the same spot
like and I'm like no and then he comes
right back to the same spot it's like
it's like he's just going fuck you now
here's the question if the mosquito is
stupid and you can't catch it what does
that make you fucking stupid dude I
flicked a wasp off me the other day it
flew back like 12 feet and in the air
corrected and then flew back at my face
it made so many corre like calculations
and Corrections and decided come back
and let me know about it and it was like
shoot and that was probably went back to
the nest said guess what happened today
this bitch ass Kid From Brooklyn tried
to flick me and I showed him what's up I
had him running they had a good Chuck on
that one uh yeah you actually mentioned
to me uh just on the topic of anacondas
that you've been uh participating in a
lot of scientific work on on on the
topic so like really in everything
you've been doing
here you are celebrating the animals
you're respecting the animals you're
protecting the animals but you're also
excited about studying the animals in
their environment So you you're actually
a co-author on on a paper uh on a couple
of papers but one of them is on
anacondas and uh studying green anaconda
hunting patterns what's that about so um
the lead authors of that paper Pat
champagne and Carter Payne uh friends of
mine and what we started noticing for me
began at that story I told you where we
were coming across the Stream and we saw
the Anaconda had had had been positioned
just below
aopa and then other people began
noticing that Anaconda seemed to always
be beneath these culpas where mammals
were going to be coming and that that
contrasted with what we knew about
anacondas because what we understood
about anacondas that they're purely
Ambush predators and they don't pursue
their