Kind: captions
Language: en
so I like to to uh match looks from time
to time in an omage you look sexy how
many legs did you break in Eastern
Europe three or four to send a message
or just for your own personal enjoyment
if she wins I'll personally give her a
million dollars if I can foot lock her
we're going to collaborate together in
an only fans sex
tape did she agree to this she shook on
it you do have an only fans channel is
that still up after August 17th it's
going to be fire it's going to be on
fire honestly when we talk about secret
investor I think that could fun the
entire tournament I missed all that what
gives you hope that you can still make
fun of anything as long as it's
funny the following is a conversation
with Craig Jones martial artist World
traveler and one of the funniest people
in the sport of submission grappling
while he does make fun of himself a lot
he is legitimately one of the greatest
submission Grapplers in the world and
underneath the veil of non-stop
sexualized Aussie humor and incessant
online trolling he is truly a
kind-hearted human being who's trying to
do good in the
world sometimes he does so through a bit
of controversy and Chaos like with the
new cji tournament that has over $2
million in prize money and it's coming
up this Friday and
Saturday yes the same weekend as the
prestigious ADCC tournament the goal of
CGI tournament is to grow the sport so
you'll be able to watch it for free
online live on YouTube and other
places all ticket profits go to charity
mainly to cancer research so I encourage
you to support the mission of this
tournament by buying tickets and going
to see the event in person Craig gave me
a special link that gives you a 50%
discount on the tickets go to Lex
freeman.com
eji and it should forward you to the
right place they're trying to sell the
last few tickets now it's a good cause
go buy some and also let me say as a fan
of the sport I highly encourage you to
watch both cji and ADCC and to celebrate
athletes competing in both from cji with
Nikki Ryan Nikki Rod Rola Brothers Fon
Davis McKenzie D and more to ADCC with
Gordon Ryan Nicholas margali John Carlo
bodoni Rafael lado Jr mik galal and more
I have a lot of respect for everyone
involved I trained with many of them
regularly and consider many of them
friends including Craig Gordon and of
course John donaher who I will talk to
many many more times on this podcast
this is Alex Freeman podcast to support
it please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends I
invite you all to come to the pool with
Craig Jones and me when you brought the
$1 million in cash on uh Rogan's podcast
did you have security with you we had
security but only by Joe Rogan's request
because he said you really going to
bring it yeah do you have security I
said no he's like don't worry about it
I'll send my security so you were going
to doal without security yeah we're
going to wing I thought I mean I was
told not to tell anyone yeah but I sent
pictures of it to everyone I know yeah
so that was probably a security risk
yeah so it's just you in a car with a
bag of cash yeah it was a company that
sponsors me shuffle.com it was their
friend a friend of their so a guy that's
never met me before yeah just took the
risk to show up to a stranger's house
with a million dollars in cash to bring
to Joe ran it was a big risk of him and
you just put it in the car and drove it
drove it over there yeah yeah with no
security except Joe except Joe that's
common sense and then Joe said he'd
never seen a million dollars before yeah
but I don't know if I believe him that's
what everyone says that's what pabl
Escobar probably says also what's your
relationship with
risk especially with the risk of death I
would say I'm very risk averse you are
no you're not that's a
lie um my relationship with risk I like
a bit of excitement I like a bit of
Adventure I'm more about the adventure
but I will not let um the risk get in
the waiver and also obviously just go
back from Ukraine I'm happy to take a
few risks if it's part of of what the
locals want me to do you know what I
mean like in Kazakhstan we did some
things that were dangerous like if the
locals are like come along join in on
this activity I feel personally
obligated to go with them so it's not
about the risk like you're not attracted
to risk you're attracted to Adventure
and the risk is a thing you don't give a
damn about yes if it comes along with it
sometimes the best Adventures involve
the most risk unfortunately speaking of
which you went to Ukraine like you said
twice recently twice really push the
limit there including to the front to
the front tell me the uh the full story
of that from the beginning how did you
end up in Ukraine so we're in Kazakhstan
we're doing some filming in Kazakhstan
and obviously borat's still a very
traumatic memory for them yeah and some
of my jokes felt like they don't go as
well in that neck of the woods so we had
some difficulty filming out there so we
film this horse game have you ever heard
of bar thanks to you yes it's a
game a very very old game they cut a
a goat or a sheep I didn't get too close
to look at it but they cut its head and
legs off and they use it as some form of
ball and then they have like up to a
thousand guys on horses violently trying
to pick this up and droing in the other
end's goals basically the goals used to
be concrete now it's just a top but
local business owners will throw down
huge amounts of money for the winners
and these horses have been trained from
a very young age the Riders have been
trained I've never ridden a horse before
we wanted to film something that made it
look like I was going to go into the
horse uh pit into the bar pit
however the drunk stunt man that we used
just decided that when he took my horse
reins he would take me straight into the
pit instead of ending the shot there so
I was in there amongst I guess the horse
riders the by Riders and we weren't
leaving we just were in there for quite
a while and he was just he could talk a
littleit he could talk English pretty
well actually and he's like I thought
you'd want to check it out from the
inside and then while we were in there
someone picked up the sort of carcass
and a wave of horse riders came at me I
was quite concerned at that point cuz
they're bashing into each other and
obviously they're angry they're seeing a
foreigner in there I was wearing like
basically biggy small cogi geeku looking
sweater so I stood out they definitely
didn't like that I was participating in
a game that they probably trained their
whole life for and that amount of money
they could win is very very significant
and there's me in there they're also
pointing out Borat Borat thinking I was
making Borat Jokes which again very
traumatic memory for the people of
Kazakhstan were you making Borat jokes
no but I guess it's the same type of
humor but sure just I guess I'm not
pretending to be kazak I'm just there
being an idiot and enjoying the local
culture but we were over there in kazak
we did that that was obviously a bit
risky did they learn to love you I think
they learned to love me and then to hate
me again so I was like a a bit of a all
incomp relationship for the kazak people
but we we basically abandoned it
was proven too difficult to film some
things some sensitive subjects over
there and I said where should we go next
and I just looked at the map and I was
like we near Ukraine Ukraine was a place
that i' been offered to teach a
Jiu-Jitsu seminar prior to I guess the
war commencing the full scale war
commencing and we're looking for a bit
of Adventure something interesting to
film some following the news uh
obviously very controversial in the news
people have very strong opinions and I
was like let's go over there let's throw
a charity event let's do something let's
train with the people and really
experience for ourselves so we set up
the seminar turned out to be the biggest
seminar for Jiu-Jitsu in Ukraine history
which is wild considering obviously they
are at War but everyone came together to
support it and one of the soldiers there
one of my friends there good friend now
who's on the front line he made a
comment on there and he said hey like
this is a seminar to donate profits to
the soldiers but we're on the front line
and I was like you know what I'll come
to you and he's like listen I can't
promise you'll survive but I'll promise
you have a good time and I said that's
all I needed to hear so we connected and
my friend Rome and we went really really
close I think we were at the closest
point 7 km from the front line obviously
very surreal experience to be over there
seeing basically how the battle's fought
with all drones how long ago was this I
think it would have been March or April
so we went there we went basically spent
two nights up on the front line went
back to ke and that was it for that trip
in terms of crazy stuff that happened
obviously just the people living like
you download the uh air defense tracker
so at any time there could be a air
siren going off an air Alert on your
phone could be like drones heading your
way planes are in the air missiles
flying and then those missiles will
change direction and stuff so the air
alert you don't know if it's heading a
different direction but they just sort
of warn everyone so you live under a
constant state of of fear basically and
then on that first trip the heaviest
moment was I was going downstairs in the
hotel to work out which is honestly a
rare thing these days doing something
healthy with myself you're working up
getting in the gym pumping some iron and
this was divine intervention that a
Hypersonic missile was shot down by the
Patriot event system just like 5 minutes
from the hotel so the whole hotel and
the uh attached gym just shook like
crazy and people start some people
started freaking out most people went to
leave to go outside which I don't think
is recommended but you want to see
what's going on out there this was in ke
this was in ke so it got shot down and
then some of the local troops actually
took me to the site of where just part
of the missile had landed in the ground
and left this huge sort of indentation
they already cleared up most of the um I
guess shrapnel from the missile I don't
know if I should or if if I was legally
allowed to do this but I took some of
that missile back home with me I don't
know where I left it actually but I
thought maybe that would raise some
alarm bells and Airport scans but I took
I took it
regardless and that was basically the
crazy thing that happened on that first
trip the Patriot defense system is is
incredible it's an incredible piece of
technology that's from the United States
it's expensive but it's incredible and
then so that's protecting ke that's
protecting ke yeah that was at the time
where us hadn't uh voted to I guess keep
funding the weapons over there so it was
kind of a tense moment cuz I think I
don't know everyone was thinking like
when did those air defense missiles run
out so that was a heavy moment for me
thinking look at what it shot out the
sky like imagine if that didn't they
didn't have that but we yeah that that
was probably the most surreal moment but
ke largely life goes on most of the time
as
paranormal I I was faced with crazy
messages and comments even just posting
that video like I'm uh getting paid by
Ukraine and stuff and it's just like
people just don't understand that like
life has to go on like ke's here the
front Line's far away like the cities
have to largely try to operate as normal
or just life life will not go on in
those Villages and cities well it's
human nature as well it's not just Kev
it's hard cave it's even Damas uh hon
people get accustomed to war quickly cuz
it's impossible to suffer for long
periods of time so you get adjust you
adjust and you appreciate the things you
still have yeah some Bing moves out
there I love seeing like people that
just crazy stuff's going on from the war
and they don't even react to it they
don't go to the bomb shelter it's like a
bowler move like I'm not going to change
my lifestyle actually on that first trip
as well something else that I probably
shouldn't have been allowed to do was go
to Chernobyl yeah so
Chernobyl I believe troops came through
bellarus and there was some fighting
going on in Chernobyl I think the whole
World got concerned at that point if any
sort of radiation leaked but Chernobyl
as it stands the troops backed down and
it's completely covered in Minds very
very difficult to go to go to Cho
basically as a tourist or as like a I
guess a idiot like myself should really
probably not be allowed in a place like
that but we were able to get there we
passed like four security checkpoints it
took two attempts first TR time we tried
to go in there was with a special force
sky we cleared two security gates then
they stopped us and basically threatened
us with arrest rightfully so really have
no business going to
choby we made a connection I won't say
this connection was but he had heard
about what I had done sort of with a
charity event and opened some doors for
us to be able to go to shinob so we got
to see shinob we had some filming
restrictions there just because it was a
crazy military sort of conflict at one
point and we got to actually see Shob
know always been a dream of M to see cuz
it's just such an interesting place and
to see it under these conditions very
very strange yeah what was that like so
there's no civilians there now it's just
completely empty I guess it's kind of
like the fantasy you have I I imagine
people going tours of Chernobyl back in
the tourist days when it was a tourist
spot and it would be busy full of
tourists we got basically a private tour
so we got to really feel that abandoned
sort of Vibes I guess I was interested
in it from playing Call of Duty and then
right Chernobyl series all the
documentaries and stuff but very very
strange place to go visit and it is now
a Minefield like a lot of parts of
Ukraine that's one of
the dark terrifying aspects of war is
how many mines are left even when the
war ends for decades after there's mines
everywhere because Dem mining is
extremely difficult and
that that could continually kill people
I don't think it'll be a spot for a very
long time because if you were thinking
about areas to demine when the conflict
ends an area where if you accidentally
trigger a mine could cause a radiation
leag it's probably going to be very low
on the list so tourism for Chernobyl who
knows how long until that Returns what
do you think you were able to to get to
Chernobyl is there why why don't you
think uh the Ukrainian people the
Ukrainian soldiers don't see you as a
threat maybe they were hoping I did step
on a m maybe my jokes didn't go too well
there so your connection was actually
Putin he was trying to get rid of you
Putin
yeah now I don't know I mean we felt
pretty safe when we're there there was
an air alert went off they were kind of
more concerned with me dying just for
the pr side of things it's like
Australian tourist in one of your videos
actually you know heard Ukrainian uh
language they're talking about we we
don't want to lose an athlete that's
what they're saying as you're loading
the the rocket launcher oh yeah The Rock
launcher I shot a rocket launcher with
the troops on the first trip but the
second trip I went back to which was
only maybe four to five weeks ago yeah
this time we went to some crazier spots
so we went to Odessa which has been hit
a ton I really enjoyed the video of old
man stretching and like exercising on
the yeah what local local custom well a
deser people are known historically to
be wild that was wild it was abrasive to
the eyes but I appreciated it especially
a middle a man in underwear with a beer
belly doing a Sundance at dusk that
would frighten many
people yeah yeah yeah the battleship
would turn around uh yeah so where else
we went yeah so we went Odessa we
briefly went back to Keef we so I made a
connection with the police chief of
basically the entire country last time
and he had said to me that if I wanted
to go somewhere sort of really heavy in
terms of action we could go to curse on
and he's like oh personally escort you
to curse on and I was just like well
here we have an invitation for
adventure I think it's a great idea to
go and I thought you know what I'll
completely lie to my cameraman and tell
him it's a safe trip to go on so that he
can pass that information onto his
fiance yeah and she won't have any
concerns yes so we basically take this
huge Journey all the way down to Kon we
switch at a city outside I can't
remember the name but we had to switch
of armored vehicles and I remember the
guy that picked us up there said hey
give me a phone number uh for someone to
call to recover your bodies yeah and he
said that in a joking way but I think he
was serious but I said just leave it you
know I'm not I don't think they need I
don't think be much left probably if we
get hit over there but we go basically
into kerson I think kon's population
used to be like
250,000 now it's like basically all
military down to 50,000 so we went into
the police basically station in the
bunker underneath the top of the
building was destroyed and then one of
the local guys just took us on a city
tour which again we had some filming
restrictions because obviously anytime
something's hit I guess the other side
wants to be able to see what damage has
been done so if you take any footage of
recently destroyed buildings that's
going to help him re-calibrate and
Target the next shot so kers on being so
heavily hit it's basically within range
of every single thing Russia has every
form of weapon drones before we took the
tour he put some drone blocking things
on top of the car which didn't look
reassuring he also took a helmet out the
back of the car which I thought he was
going to give to me but he just threw it
in the back of the pickup truck and said
oh you you won't need this you'll be
dead anyway and I was like ah I've made
a great life decision with this little
kers on tour but then we took a tour of
the city and kerson used to be kind of
like a beautiful beach city by the Neo
River but basically it's just the river
that separat Ates Russia from uh well I
guess the Russian land they've they've
taken from kerson so Kon split across
that River and there's just Russians on
the other side of the river and
ukrainians on this side so very very
dangerous spot K makes a lot of press
because of the longrange missiles that
hit but kon's just being hit all the
time so we took this tour we went along
the river we went to within 1 kilometer
of the front line so that was the
closest we got after this point we heard
artillery strike and because you're in
an armored vehicle it sounds further
away than it is obviously the sound
doesn't get in so I thought it sounded
far away we could see some smoke that
actually appeared closer in the distance
the guy driving us took us to a point
where a large building was blocking us
from I guess the angle at which the
missile would have came from and I
thought well I thought everything was
cool thought it was that must have been
off the disc distance and then we heard
two more strikes hit very very close
they sounded really loud and then I
think um he's radio in to see if
everything's safe if we can leave this
point and then we basically race back
but we kind I started to realize we're
in danger at any point where he really
sped the car up or sort of took sort of
evasive movements in the car but we got
out of there and I think I had someone
translate it later and basically yeah he
was checking to see if the roads were
clear for us to leave ultimately it
ended up being someone died and a people
injured from that blast which was less
than half a kilometer from us and
basically they were radi radioing saying
end the tour come back to police
station artillery is terrifying cuz
there's just shelling and it's the the
the destructive power of artillery is
insane yeah and it's constant all the
time yeah and you hear that noise you're
like is that coming or going very uh
very concerning right you don't know
yeah I'm you don't know and just like
that it could you gone last time the
village we went to um
basically it was the day we left so we
stayed there over night the day we left
it just started getting extremely
shelled and the soldier we were with
just took a selfie video of us and
basically the location we were in just
hearing just artillery strike after
artillery strike just being like Oh you
guys left and the the fun began so they
they take it in good spirit I was trying
to use their energy to reassure myself
but I guess when they see it every day
it's they're kind of more adjusted to it
they're not like they're not freaking
out every time something crazy like that
goes on well they have to right they
have to be in good spirit you have to be
joking and laughing and yeah the guys
are always laughing and joking they were
laughing and joking at me quite a bit
holding weapons trying to shoot weapons
and stuff they got a lot of enjoyment
out of me shooting the RPG yeah they're
they're probably still telling
stories that crazy
Australian American that rolled in they
help they helped me out though in my
marketing campaign for the tournament we
were able to secure a l classic Soviet
Union car mhm we towed it we painted it
with the logos of the other event the
ADCC yeah and we got to shoot some RPGs
at it yeah great experience great fun
yeah it's a very creative marketing
campaign very dangerous one I don't
think like Coke or Pepsi are going to do
that one so it's very very Innovative it
was a bold move luckily they let me get
away with posting it but when we were
there it was at a basically at a
shooting range and we cleared them out
for a while so we'd blown up the car we'
set it on fire we'd done all this sort
of stuff I remember we we were trying to
blow it up it wasn't quite hitting one
of the missiles was lodged in under the
car so it's kind of risky that could
have gone off at any moment but we
needed to get it to ignite we needed to
get a shot where it was on fire the logo
of the enemy tournament was basically on
fire so we poured gasoline on it we shot
the gasoline tank
that didn't work that must be a movie
trick or something and then we decided
we'd light on fire a rag and just throw
it into the blowing out back window MH
so I'm with this guy special forces guy
and we throw the rag in the back like
soaked in gasoline rag yeah and we start
running and he's like stop stop he's
like it didn't go off so we're sitting
there quite close to the car lighting it
trying to light more as we walk back to
the car and then we just hear the car
ignite and he's like run run run so we
came quite close to death already at
that point but we wanted to get this
shot with some photos in front of the
burning logos but we told the guys at
the shooting range to basically give us
10 minutes or so so we could take the
photos I don't know if they didn't wait
the full 10 minutes or if we took too
long but they started firing at the
targets anyway and then the ricochets
were flying very very close to us over
our head One landed right by my leg
we're like we better get out of
here obviously not much safety concerns
at that point but we survived basically
artillery strikes we survived a bit of
friendly fire with the bullets coming
our way but again I was strangely calm
because the other guys were calm but
then afterwards they were they said to
me they were like oh bro if you got shot
we' just have to dump your body at the
hospital we wouldn't be able to explain
why you're here blowing up cars right
right and you're American and athlete
International Celebrity they'd be like
what is what is he doing on the front
line there's no real good explanation
for it but I mean through even through
the jokes and stuff it's good to like
highlight what's actually kind of
happening over there you know it's
obviously very very bad what's the
morale of the soldiers like is there
still an optimism is there still a hope
I mean the the sort of the battle
fatigue you know and as they say like
all the heroes die early you know the
guys that the real heroes that are
willing to sacrifice themselves they're
the ones that are going to get taken out
quick unfortunately that's the reality
for them over there but their thoughts
are mostly that it's going to be a
prolonged War like when I ask them about
how fast the front line moves they're
like oh could take 6 months to move 1
200 meters yeah so it just feels like
it's going to go on forever and from the
Ukrainian side's P perspective those
guys talk to me about how when they hear
radio intercepts of Russian soldiers
marching to the same front line spot is
that
basically they're marching into certain
death at certain level locations and
based on the radio
Transmissions they know they're going to
die but they head forth anyway straight
forward into a Ukrainian position which
is just wild to me I guess like World
War II they just keep throwing troops at
it and you see a ton of footage they
take themselves which is just
mind-blowing obviously some of this
footage doesn't make it to the internet
because it's got important sort of
details in those conflicts but like
they're showing firstperson perspectives
of trench warfare it's just crazy to see
what some of these guys have have gone
through so I went to a lot of the same
places as well including
Heron um what was your sense of the
place Kon was like it was just so
destroyed I think at this point most of
the civilians are
gone I saw a lot of just elderly people
left behind especially a lot of old men
and I just think they're just like hey
I've lived here my whole life I'm just
never leaving so no matter the level
danger those guys just remain and then
for the it's largely just I guess
military and curs on but that place felt
very very dangerous I didn't realize
until we got there just quite how
destroyed it is how did that experience
change you just seeing War head on how
it change me I guess just realizing a
lot of these soldiers are just like you
you kind of distance yourself from them
thinking that they're something separate
but really speaking to a lot of the
Ukrainian soldiers like my friend Roman
he hadn't lived in Ukraine for 8 years
he lived in France he had a life he's
got a wife over there he's got a
daughter he basically volunteered to
come back to protect his uh mom and
brother who still lived there so it's
like you sort of I used to view them
military guys cuz in Australia and I
guess in the US they don't have this
conscription ongoing right now you know
what I mean like whereas obviously this
guy's like like Roman who volunteered
but then there's a lot of Ukrainian
soldiers that were conscripted into the
war so it's like you just realize how a
lot of these guys are Everyday People
they're just in this crazy situation
like where Roman felt obligated to
return to Ukraine like from my
perspective anyone in from Australia or
us just it's just a different
perspective on like those they feel
different to the regular people fighting
in Ukraine from my perspective yeah
defending the land that is your home
yeah like Japan was coming for Australia
I guess in World War II they attacked
the north but really there was no foot
battle and there was no soldiers on the
ground within Australia guess us too
during World War II so it's like a
completely different
perspective from our recent histories
compared to like if you were a Ukrainian
and there's Russians within the defined
border their responsibility to protect
their Homeland and their family is just
something you can't imagine but also
after having spent time with them you
can see why they feel such a strong
sense of obligation to protect uh to
protect Ukraine protect their family and
friends and in a lot of cases
uh the the soldiers are using their own
funds to buy
equipment uh whether it's bullets
whether it's guns whether it's armor is
that's still what you saw yeah I mean in
terms of the weapons America provides
weapons so we saw a wide selection of
weapons some of those would be old
Soviet weapons like obviously the RPG we
shot and what we shot out of it is all
Soviet it's very old weaponry and then
you've got us weapons that have been
given as well but in terms of the basic
soldiers equipment like if they want
good quality stuff that might be the
difference between them surviving the
winter or the summer just an extreme
temperature range like they have to pay
for that all themselves so they always
joke about when foreign soldiers come
over to train them or they a lot of
foreign soldiers come to learn about
sort of the Drone technology they've
developed on a budget is they always
joke with them about how like everything
from most countries is basically
supplied all the good quality standard
equipment they' need is just supplied by
the government but in Ukraine obviously
funding is very stretched so these guys
to have the best equipment they have to
basically find money to pay for it
themselves and they'll do that by
seeking donations best way to get
donations would be to grow social media
profiles so that's when you see a lot of
sort of social media Warfare from a
perspective of gaining Fame to secure
donations for the Battalion to be able
to fight better or protect themselves
and also some of the social media
Warfare I guess is psychological warfare
against the enemy yeah you'll see like
private telegram groups where they're
showing what they've done to the enemy
what the enemy's done to them it's just
it's just crazy
yeah there's telegram groups on both
sides and it's basically some of it is
propaganda some of it is psychological
warfare some of it is just the human
nature of being like of increasing your
own morale and the morale of the people
around you by showing off successfully
killing other human beings which are
made other in
War uh and the nature of this war has
has evolved so drones have become more
and more
prevalent of consumer level cheap drones
can you speak to that have you seen have
you seen the use of fbv fpv drones yeah
so I mean basically like a $300 to $500
drone I think it's like carbon fiber 3D
printed they can add attach different
forms of Weaponry to it whether it's
just dropping a frag they could drop a
mine out of it I know they were talking
about how they had a liquid that could
basically burn through sort of a lot of
cars and tanks so the person inside
would basically melt alive which sounds
horrible but what's mind- blowing me you
could have like a $3 million Russian
tank that could be destroyed by a
$300 drone which is just crazy how fast
the war changes I think they're kind of
the world leaders in budget drone
technology they didn't obviously don't
have the budget for these crazy
elaborate uh massive drones I did see
some higher budget bigger drones over
there but for the most part those fpv
drones is really how most of the battles
are fought and you're seeing the um
you're seeing the Hamas on them so you
can see like basically kamakazi drone
will chase someone down and they have
that footage and that's what the police
chief said to me when he he gifted me
one of the drones they used and he
basically said he's like artillery is
scary but a drone Will Follow You into a
building it's like kind of a haunting
thing to think about like they'll see
the Drone they'll hear the Drone they
might try to shoot it down or they might
try to run but if it's a kamakazi one
those guys are pretty good at find them
it's going to chase the soldiers down a
lot of soldiers like pretending to be
dead it's it's really crazy some of the
footage out there of those fpv DRS so
it's a terrifying tool of war and Tool
of psychological war and used by both
sides increasingly yeah both sides use
it I remember I was with Roman in
Marseilles and he had his break period
he was allowed to leave the country
because he's volunt he basically
volunteered to join the Army Ukrainian
men can't really leave Ukraine right now
but Roman I was in Mars and this was a
surreal experience for him we went to
the beach and there was some tourists
there flying a drone and you just saw
his instinctual reaction to that drone
sound in the sky flashback to
that currently they're all as far as I
know all human controlled so fpv but to
me increasingly terrifying notion is of
them becoming autonomous it's the best
way to defend against the Drone that's
fpv controlled is for AI to be
controlling that drone just have swarms
of drones that are $500 controlled by AI
systems and that's
a terrifying possibility that the future
of warfare is essentially swarms of
drones on both sides and then maybe
swarms of drones say between us and
China over Taiwan that would be wild
because I mean they do those crazy drone
L shows where they do those performances
with the lights and stuff so they're
already pretty sophisticated with sort
of pre-programming those are
pre-programmed so the the lowle control
flight control of those is done
autonomously but there's a interface for
doing the choreography that's hardcoded
in but adding increasing levels of
intelligence to a drone where you can
detect another drone follow it and
defend yourself like in terms of the the
military on both sides of the Ukraine
war that's that's a that's a technology
that's like the Most Wanted technology
is drone defense like how do you defend
against drones on both sides and anybody
that come up with an autonomous drone
technology is going toh help whichever
side uses that technology to gain a
military advantage and so there's a huge
incentive to build that technology but
then of course once both sides are
starting using that technology then
there's swarms of autonomous drones who
don't give a about humans just
killing everything in sight on both
sides and that that that's that's
terrifying there civilian deaths that
are possible that are terrifying
especially when you look 10 20 30 40 50
years from now yes I mean surreal like
when we went to Kon he was like uh the
entire sky is just full of full of
drones at any given time they could
decide to come and attack so like just
the they could just sit there forever
waiting waiting for you to come out of
that building they'll wait a long time
when someone goes and hides inside or
potentially if it's open window fly
straight through the open window to get
it to get people yeah so you're not even
safe indoors yeah there's nowhere to
hide and they can wait for a very very
long time and as far as I know even
politicians like you're in danger
everywhere in
Ukraine so if if you want to do a public
speaking thing and doing it outside
you're in danger because it's very
difficult to detect those drones it
could be anywhere so it's a
terrifying life where you don't know if
you're safe at any moment anywhere in
Ukraine well sure I mean it's crazy with
what happened to Trump I thought maybe
the next attack on a public figure might
come in the form of drone technology
something sort of something along those
lines I wonder how they protect against
that here if that happens just imagine
the insanity that would ensue cuz we
understand the idea of a gunman with a
rifle shooting somebody but just like a
drone they just imagine the conspiracy
theories who controlled that drone where
did it come from yeah and now everybody
I mean that would just cause chaos and
the range is ever increasing one of the
battalions in Ukraine cuz the those fpv
drones have short range pretty short
range but they were able to attach it to
one of the larger drones with a signal
booster so that it could potentially go
up to 30 40 km into the distance so the
Drone that hits you could be flown by
someone so far away from you and if they
did that domestically that would be very
frightening to think of the sphere of
where it could have come from do they
when you talked to the soldiers there
did they have a hope or a vision how the
war will end
not really it just see I guess it just
seems to everyone that it's sort of
there's going to be no middle ground
when I was there there's a kind of
optimism that they would be
victorious like
definitively and uh so is there still
that optimism and
also are they ready for prolonged War I
mean I think it would be a soldier by
Soldier basis I know like um each of
them had a different perspective I
remember I would ask him about like in
terms of us politics and their fears cuz
the first trip I went there us hadn't
agreed to resupply weapons so it was a
very different feeling in the air there
of concern over what was going to happen
but they still remained quite optimistic
that no matter who got in they felt
would do the right thing but in terms of
prolonged War most people think it's
going to go for a very long time like
the Children's Hospital that just uh was
bombed in ke anytime there's a moment
like that that reignites everything and
I think it happens on both sides so I
know that there was an attack in uh
cremier there was an attack on a beach I
guess um and I don't know attacking the
hospital was retribution for that but
that's sort of the energy that is felt
like um they might have battle fatigue
but when something happens to civilians
especially kids on your side kind of
reinvigorates the energy to fight for as
long as necessary and in terms of a
case-by case basis one of my friends
Demitri over there who transitu own jym
he was very passionate about it just
because of the history like he brought
out documents of his grandfather being
executed by the USSR so I know that when
the war started he basically he took a a
bicycle helmet in his AK-47 and went out
into the streets and he's like I'd
rather be dead than live under Russian
rule again so I mean
very case- by case basis sort of
personal history for them I think did
they comment on um us politics whether
they hope for Trump or for in that
situation Biden now Harris to win the
presidential election I think they most
of the guys tried to keep it pretty
positive you know what I mean like some
people did think that maybe if Trump was
elected he wouldn't continue to fund it
but they really try to stay optimistic
most of the people I spoke to really
tried to remain optimistic that they
would be protected if if it comes down
to it like but obviously there was a
9month period where they weren't
refunded so as that stretched obviously
they're refunded now but it takes a lot
of time to get that equipment back to
the points at which they need it so I
mean if ammunition had ran out Patriot
defense system had ran out really really
sort of scary prospect there I don't
know what's all I guess no one knows
what's going to happen there but did you
lie to people and say you were close to
the president so they can be nice to you
like so they can convince you to
continue the funding I'm an Australian
Diplomat over
here that could be a nice way in yeah
that would have been a nice way to the
top um L luckily for me most of the
place I travel to uh Jiu-Jitsu gives me
access to so many different individuals
it's it's super bizarre like oligarchs
royalty I guess Tech wizard it's just
it's a strange group of people like a
cold around the world of just I get
strange access just for being good at
wrestling wrestling dudes yeah martial
arts there's a there's like a code and
there's a respect the mutual respect
even if you don't know anything about
the other person if you both have done
martial arts I mean there's similar
things with Judo with jiu-jitsu with
grappling all that I don't know what
that is it's like an inner cirle that's
kind of like cuz this film Project we're
working on it's kind of focused on that
is uh because of the history of having
Jiu-Jitsu and traveling and doing
seminars and just getting access to
strange experiences from the local
strange in a positive way and
participating in those experiences
that's what I sort of wanted to focus
this travel show on was the community of
Jiu-Jitsu people around the world kind
of really has no sort of ethnic
background religious background even
level of wealth like it as cheesy as it
sounds kind of a good equalizer on the
mats and that Community camaraderie so
there's no limits there including like
mats the shittiest mats and some small
town in the middle of nowhere 100% even
like Shake tanon who started ADCC I know
when he went to the US and he studied
there he would train at a very simple gy
he wouldn't declare who he was like I I
watched a documentary produced about
sort of the story of shake tanon and how
he studied in America basically in
anonymity the people at his gym didn't
know who he was in his country and he
trained there he trained with him for
years cleaned the mounts like anyone
else and then they didn't realize who he
was until he said hey I want to invite
you to my country but he actually meant
basically as royalty come and then they
realized who this guy was and the
significance of him that's gangster
that's great one of the things I love
about noi Jiu-Jitsu is like you don't
see rank so on a small scale there's no
hierarchy that's that emerges when you
have the different color belts
everybody's kind of the same it's nice
you get see the skill the skill speaks
but there's just like a mutual respect
and whatever I mean you can quickly find
out who I actually wonder if I would be
able to figure out the rank of a person
you think you can can usually figure out
how long a person's been doing J Jes I
like to think with some of the
aggressive clothing choices I've made
and sold in the sport that that should
be a beacon that that person is a blue
belt has hopefully some Talent cuz
they're fearlessly provoking the other
body there oh it's it's like in the
jungle whenever there's like a insect
that's red that it's like really
flamboyant looking that means they're
dangerous it's a Target yeah though yeah
being flamboyant if you come on the mats
with something pink pink gay or
something people are circling in fast
especially in Eastern
Europe okay so uh yeah you mentioned the
project can you talk about that I saw
there's a preview that you showed Craig
Jones gone Walkabout gone Walkabout yeah
and uh so you showed a preview in
Indonesia where you're both kind of
celebrating and maybe poking a bit of
fun at Hicks and Gracie Hicks and Gracie
yes so I like to to uh match looks from
time to time in an homage you look sexy
it's comfortable actually I enjoy it
yeah you should keep it I only wear this
now I'll wear
this I wear this for the Gabby match um
I mean yeah we're trying to do a
documentary series cuz the way I see it
is I want to grow the sport of Jiu-Jitsu
and every this sounds funny to say now
cuz I'm doing a tournament but everyone
tries to do it through competition but
as we know most Jiu-Jitsu gyms you visit
a very small percentage of people
compete let alone compete regularly
you'll go to gyms that could be brown or
black belts that don't know many of the
bigname competitors so my thoughts were
we're never going to grow this sport by
competition we're going to grow it by
appealing to the large majority of
people that do it which are just people
that enjoy it for the benefits it
provides to them whether health or
psychological and obviously many people
inspired by Anthony
Bourdain basically he's looking at what
he did with food by showing the very
interesting characters in the food
culture the Food Industries especially
with street food and building around
that so I'm trying to look at Jiu-Jitsu
like a giant cult Scientology isn't
starting with Planet Zeno it's starting
with John trod and Tom so we can create
a documentary travel series highlighting
the diverse interesting people that
participate in the sport in that sense I
hope we can grow up but also doing some
charity work along the way like as we'll
release the Indonesia barley episode
pretty soon but as an
Australian I do do a lot of damage
culturally around the world so I'd like
to uh do some good as well we've we've
done a lot of damage to Bley so give
back to local communities we have an
Australian there that runs in Academy
Academy Christos he's one of the guys
we're donating a portion of the ticket
sales to from our event but he basically
went straight into a balones slum
started teaching Jiu-Jitsu on a mount
under a tree and then slowly through
donations has built a gym and his real
focus is not just taking money from
people and gifting it to them to help
the community but to teach them skills
so he'll take a lot of the disadvantaged
kids and he'll teach them things like
photo editing so they can get that work
from the internet really incredible guy
it's good to know that you see yourself
as the J trol of Jiu-Jitsu many massas
have accused me of the same thing
unfortunately old lies yeah there's
there's a lot there's a lot of
similarities between the two of you so
you mentioned Anthony
Bourdain what do you like about the guy
what do you what do you find inspiring
and instructive about the way he was
able to as you said scratch beneath the
surface of a place I just felt like very
authentic wasn't afraid like this is
something I had trouble with when we
first started doing the travel show it's
easy to do a travel show if you only say
positive things about a place yeah you
know but he would find a very creative
way to show what's good and bad a very
honest reflection of the place so that's
something I would strive to do however
in some places it's very difficult you
know what I mean like for example
Kazakhstan if I would to say something
negative about Kazakhstan they'd be like
who's this yeah foreign idiot talking
about our culture and I think that was
what was incredible about balain is he
could talk about both the good and bad
of places and he would do it in such a
way that it was tasteful and was
respected by the locals yeah that's
actually a skill that you're incredibly
good at you make fun of a lot of people
but there's
something maybe there's an underlying
respect maybe it's the accent maybe I
don't know what it
is there's there's a love underneath
your trolling i' like to think so
hopefully yeah Gabby Garcia
a deep a deep passionate love underneath
the trolling
yeah uh speaking of which let's talk
about
cji you're putting on the CGI tournament
it's it's in about a week same weekend
as ADCC $3 million budget two divisions
and two super fights winner of each
division gets $1
million everyone gets
$110,000 how do you even say that plus
one 10,000 plus one yeah plus one
uh just to compete so it's August 16th
and 17th everybody should get tickets
same weekend as ADCC so which is August
17th okay so what's the mission what
you're doing there the the mission has
always been first and foremost increase
athlete pay so ADCC has invested a ton
into the sport obviously I mentioned
shake tanu shake Tano's done so much for
the sport of grappling particularly noi
grappling so he's growing it he has
funded this for a very very long time
but we've kind of hit a point since 2017
where the audience the crowd watching
live and at home behind a pay wall has
grown considerably we had things like
meta moris we had the Eddie Bravo
Invitational Polaris all these sort of
professional events that have also
contributed to Growing the sport and
obviously people like Gordon Ryan have
definitely increased the popularity of
the sport but
the payment for ADCC has never gone up
despite again the growth of it so what I
did a lot of fans were asking me earlier
in the year they said c you going to do
ADCC and I said that is a big commitment
of time energy expenses on steroids to
get my body ready for a tournament that
I'll probably lose and if I lose on day
one I make $ Z if I lose on if I lose in
the final which I have done a couple
times only only get $6,000 I think third
place is 3,000 fourth place is 1,000 so
if you make day two you get paid but for
me personally seeing ADCC 2022 you're
looking out to a soldout crowd of like
10,000 people it's on Flow grappling
which you know PID quite a bit of money
for the streaming rights I can't comment
on what that number would be and then
you go home despite having put in all
that effort with only 6,000 and they
basically the argument is you're paid an
exposure but again there's many ways to
expose yourself you know what I mean
that's just one of the platforms to do
so yeah my problem was that they
announced they were going to go from
Thomas and Mac to T-Mobile which is a
jump in quality of Stadium but not a
significant jump in sort of seating so
we've gone from like 11,000 seat Arena
to I think a 15 16,000 seat Arena and I
knew that flow grappling would have had
to pay more money cuz now the Sport's
growing so much and I can personally
kind of track the growth of the sport
through selling instructional dvds
instructional online products cuz that
keeps growing and we're targeting those
white and blue belts vulnerable to
internet marketing yeah and that
audience continues to grow and those
will be the people that largely watch
ADCC events like this so I simply said
in response to a lot of fans asking me
why are you going to do ADCC and I
simply made a video saying no probably
not probably not it' be nice to make
some more money and then I listed a
bunch of sports such as bar that
you get paid more to win bar in The
Villages of Kazakhstan the payment
structure is higher MH and I received a
very aggressive response not from any of
shake tan Hun's people but from
basically who runs the event today one
of those guys amongst giving me death
threats said hey T-Mobile costs $2
million you don't know what you're
talking about and in terms of business
and production and he's probably right
but to me $2 million is a waste of money
for a Jiu-Jitsu event I don't think
we're at that level yet like that's
where the UFC host events you know $2
million that's an expensive expensive
venue so we argued a bit on the internet
and he said hey if you don't like it why
don't you go get $2 million and put on
your own tournament and I said I might
just do that M and one of my uh
Anonymous friends kindly donated a $3
million budget and I actually messaged
him before the show to say hey we won't
reveal your identity because obviously
anyone that has money is going to get
asked for more money or ask for money
from others so he wants to remain
anonymous but he basically just said to
enjoy the trolling aspect of it and also
contribute to the sport that you dids to
it's good to know that the the anonymous
fun appreciates you for who you are
Craig Jones he sees my true identity and
he wants to provoke it's it's it's
trolling for a good cause yeah but
basically we were able to find Thomas
and Mac Event Center which was their
original venue and it just so happened
to be available that same weekend which
we're very happy about so we booked that
out we decided to ADCC pays 10,000 to
the winner we were like you know what
we'll pay
$110,000 plus one to show up so to show
up in our event you're G to get paid
more than to win ADCC and not only that
we're gonna broadcast it for free so on
meta X and YouTube you'll be able to
watch this event for free that's amazing
it's very considerate to the flow
grappling streaming platform I believe
to have also a free alternative on the
same weekend and the Brilliance of this
whole thing is I was largely
criticized for not knowing anything
about business but the people
criticizing me decided to host a
tournament at 15,000 seat Arena they
decided to take sponsors they decided to
use a streaming platform with sell
subscriptions based on the athletes
would enter it but not give any of the
talent the athletes a contract which
gave me this beautiful position to
basically say hey what do you prefer The
Prestige of an 80cc gold medal or money
and that's the fud so far and we put
that we put that out into the world I
didn't chase too many athletes down
obviously a lot of these guys really
need money so you throw a million
dollars out there people are jumping
onard
so initially we started getting we got
two local guys here in Austin the Tacker
Brothers they jumped in first and
they're great kids they really
legitimized the whole thing because if
if we pick certain athletes like just B
Team guys straight away it's already
looking a bit dodgy but we got some
legitimate athletes especially the under
80 kilo divisions full
of minus two or three guys that's the
best people in the world in that weight
Division and as we started to grow our
roster here what happened I'm going to
say this allegedly for legal reasons is
that the first move ADCC
did was they matched the female pay to
the men's pay so the women always
traditionally got paid less I think
$6,000 for first place as soon as we had
Fon Davies the uh reigning Champion come
across to do a super fight with us bang
ADCC raised the prize money of the
women's division to equal the mens so me
being a feminist activist throughout
many of my years on this Earth
immediately got women's pay raised in
the sport of Jiu-Jitsu equalized
basically which went counter to
everything the promoter had said because
he said it was out of his control to
raise money he said only the only the
ADCC I guess coming directly from the
Sheik or the shakes sort of guys could
raise the prize money he got it raised
and then what happened was once we
started getting some of these big names
here so some of the best guys from ADCC
would be in this division we got a bunch
of Champions or medalists or really the
top betting favorites for their
divisions there they started again I
can't emphasize this enough allegedly
paying show money which has never
historically been done before to keep
athletes in their show so you're saying
allegedly there were some under the
table payments by ADCC do you have
secret documents proving this I do have
the documents now some of the guys
obviously told me you know how it is you
slap a million dollars on the table it
looks great that was me proving I had
the money which wasn't even my money to
begin with but it was basically me
saying hey the money's real no I don't
know why but strangely a lot of people
don't believe me when I'm telling the
truth I don't know why they wouldn't but
what logically happens is they're like
oh look how much money he has we're
going to give like give us more show
money so they're negotiating with me
there was one particular Brazilian
businessman manager I won't say his name
but he looks like The Thing from
Fantastic 4 and he was a manager for
some of these athletes and he would take
a massive 20% cut so what he and I got I
got to pay respect to this uh respect to
this because it actually caused trauma
to the other team as well but he would
uh I would invite an athlete to
cji he would go to the other
organization and he would say to them
hey what sort of deal could you give me
to keep this guy you want to keep him in
your event and he would use cji to
leverage more show money for his guys of
which he gets to grease the wheels with
20% for himself however at cji everyone
gets $10,000 one across the board and a
million dollar prize money so there's no
room for really negotiation for the
tournament aspect of us so he has a
vested interest in putting his guys in
ADCC because he can negotiate show money
and he can basically take 20% of of that
for himself but really for the sport of
grappling this is incredible across the
board because by us stealing or at least
borrowing a bunch of athletes from ADCC
ADCC had to fill their divisions so they
filled their divisions with many other
competitors that wouldn't have
ordinarily had the chance to do ADCC and
really although we've scheduled it the
same weekend ours is actually Friday
Saturday ADCC being Saturday Sunday our
day starts pretty late so we start 5:
p.m. Saturday so really ultimately it
was a big marketing ploy to go
head-to-head pretending like we're
making the fans choose but the fans
we'll be able to watch both events
you'll be able to go all day Friday for
us you'll sadly miss the ADCC Hall of
Fame ceremony where you'll see many of
great speakers public speakers
philosophers tell their stories about
hardship just like at the end of any
Jiu-Jitsu seminar or beginning if you're
blessed like that you might have a 45
minute monologue about how they're more
knowledgeable than doctors lawyers
classic black belt technique but you
will miss that un with great metaphors
about lions about lions yes about being
a humble lion most importantly but
humility is important you can watch all
that Friday you could watch most of ADCC
Saturday and then Saturday night in Las
Vegas I'll be doing what many men have
done before and that is wrestling a
giant
woman can you speak to that how are you
preparing um for this moment of violence
on a Saturday night with Gabby Garcia so
Gabby Garcia is is the legend of sort of
women's grappling I think she's one more
than anyone else so between me and her
we would at least have 15 to 20 World
Championships I'd imagine yeah she's
huge I say that in an endearing way MH
she might be 6' 4 6' 3 and her weight
varies depending on what time of the day
it is between 220 and 275 lbs but she's
going to be coming in quite big and
strong Maybe I am about 179 lb right now
and a 5'1 so I've got a significant size
disadvantage she has the credentials but
we're going to we're going to scrap it
out scrap it out and see who's best the
greatest woman's competitor of all time
or a guy that's never won
anything has it added some complexity to
the picture that you know there's some
sexual tension in the room whenever you
the two of you are together yeah maybe
I'm being romantic but it seems like
there's youve slowly started to fall in
love with each other it's been 3 years
of Seduction it's been a long time it's
inspiring for for many young men that
follow you and look up to you just the
the the Romantic Journey that you've
been on it's Tru inspiring yeah I would
say it's a motivational message to the
guy that keeps sending DMS to a g on
Instagram for years that maybe after 3
years it could also happen for you to no
matter no matter her her height and
weight I think persistence is the key
here uh yeah and we do have a wager on
the line wager this might be the first
wager of its kind I would hope in Combat
Sports history mhm if she wins I'll
personally give her a million dollars if
I can foot lock her we're going to
collaborate together in an only fans sex
tape did you agree to this she shook on
[Laughter]
it great you do have an only fans
channel is that still up it's after
August 17th it's going to be fire it's
going to be on fire yeah wow I think
that and honestly when we talk about
secret investor I think that could fund
the entire tournament it' be that
success that'll be the only paywalled
thing about this tournament is that is
your only F yeah it's I mean it's going
to be a spiritual experience for me yeah
W uh okay I'm totally distracted now can
you talk about the rule set so we're
using the angled walls inspired by
karate combat karate combat do those
angled walls those are awesome you're
calling it The Alley that's really
really interesting so the it's like in a
pit I guess and the angled walls are
yeah so karate combat have a a square
pit we have a rectangular alley we like
the visual of just you're in the alley
with someone you know you come we both
know what goes on an alley a couple
things that could go on back there
what's the second thing never mind I got
it but why this is brilliant why the
angled wolves are brilliant for
grappling is because any grappling
tournament this goes without question
goes IBG Jeff
ADCC the reset is one of the most
annoying aspects of the sport and one of
the aspects of the sport that these some
of the sneakier guys take advantage of
there's guys out there that are
brilliant at playing The Edge hoping the
ref will reset them or they'll shoot a
take down near the edge and you might
watch and again I'm picking on ADCC here
but you might watch an ADCC match where
90 seconds of a 10-minute match is the
referee grabbing them bringing them back
to the center or trying to recreate
something of a position that landed
outside not only is that sort of boring
to me it and it sort of could be biased
you know like again it's happened to me
in events where like I've the ref's gone
stop I've stopped he's moved a little
bit more and then the an adjustment in
the reset I mean it's cheating to a
certain extent it's just more of an
annoyance they bring it back they reset
it to the best of their ability in the
center the angled wall mitigates that
and it mitigates it in such a way that
is a disadvantage to be pushed up
against the angled wall you're very
easily taken down against the angled
wall you could use a cage like the UFC
does or any sort of MMA organization
however cage wrestling can be slow
you're obviously at the vertical and it
can stagnate there guys are very good at
using split squats to really defend that
position so we and for me personally I
don't love the cage for grappling I'd
like to differentiate it for grappling
what holds people back from using the
alley or a pit like structure is the
viewing the viewing angle because if
obviously if you're one of the VIPs or
you pay for expensive seat that angled
walls above you a cage you can see into
an elevated platform sort of Step age
you can see clearly into cuz the because
it's basically flat but the athletes
could fall off and injur themselves so
something happens uufc fight passes the
elevated flat stage it's kind of scary
to be near the edge you you go you go
off you're going to land on concrete you
might want to do that to the other guy
if you that way inclined but the the
alley the angled wall solves all those
problems very minimal referee
interference again the only thing that
holds people back is the expense of
building it
but again when you're spending someone
else's money you will spare no expense
in production so we've spent a lot of
money on the Alley and we've really gone
out of our way to create an experience
that around the alley we've elevated
everything so that the people watching
will be able to see down into it because
add your instinctual thought is oh it
sounds great but how am I going to see
in it unless I'm far up like you'd need
like a Coliseum like structure and which
is basically what we've attempted to
create so that you get both a perfect
place to to wrestle to Grapple in as
well as a perfect viewing angle for the
fans well I think it's an amazing idea
what about the Jiu-Jitsu on a slant
you've triangled somebody on a slant is
there like some interesting aspects
about the actual detail techniques of
how to be effective using a slant I'll
be honest I can beid it for karate
combat twice never once did I ever step
foot into the pit just again like you
said before the podcast if there's a the
right way of doing things I'm probably
doing the opposite the wrong way I
actually no idea why you people take
advice from you but they do I'm mostly
an inspirational speaker at this point
yeah you and Tony Robbins are like this
same size at least but in terms of the
training for obviously the athletes very
difficult some of these guys have gone
out there and built their own angled
walls yeah I saw that that's a cool
video that they're getting into that
that's a smart thing to do there's a
million dollars on the line you should
probably invest in that but also like a
new Surface that no one's competed on no
one's gamed it yet no one's like we're
going to see it unfold like like when
UFC when people started figuring out how
to use the C we're going to see this
unfold in front of our very eyes how the
strategies work for this the other thing
we've done too is we're doing rounds so
qualifying rounds would be three five
minute rounds the final would be five FS
why I want to do that is to incentivize
action we're going to incentivize action
through penalizing people but we really
want I I love a short burst a break and
the guys can go hard again I don't like
a Jiu-Jitsu match where the guy takes
the back early and he's like oh if I
keep this position I've won and that's
something that people that don't compete
don't realize is if you take some if you
get a good position early get up on the
points you just sit there go ah let's
ride this to the end that's why I want
rounds so that you might take guys back
you're really incentivized to get that
finish and the way we're trying to grow
the sport is to steal the MMA scoring
structure which a lot of people
criticize because they think it's overly
complicated they don't understand it but
to the mass audience they understand a
10-point must understand a decision in
that sense to understand it being scored
round by round so we're trying to appeal
to a broader audience here but we think
based on the structure based on how hard
we call stalling penalties based on you
wanting to finish your opponent quick to
have a better chance at a million
dollars cuz it's 10,000 And1 to show up
and a million to win if you ain't first
you're last there's no reward for second
place so I'm punishing the one position
I've only ever been able to achieve in
tournaments are you worried that uh
because of how much money is on the line
people will play
careful a very generous friend of mine
has provided this money I'm like unless
you guys go out there and try to kill
each other and put it all on the line I
I just won't do it again like I'm giving
you guys a massive platform we've turned
down offers from streaming platforms
that wanted to buy the rights to this
event because the marketing's gone very
well we're turning down money to grow
the sport the ADCC promoter said he
wanted to grow the Spore so what he did
is he put it behind a paywall and used
the money from the payall to buy a more
expensive Arena I don't think that's how
you grow the well I think you grow the
sport like comedians do these days like
guys like Mark Norman will release a
special for free Andrew Schulz did it
first release a special for free and it
grew his audience massively I think
that's what Jiu-Jitsu needs we need an
exciting show that's not behind a pay
wall that'll grow the sport grow the
audience and really then ultimately we
can get to a level where it could be
behind a pay but I just don't think
where they at yeah I think million
dollars is a lot of money but the the
opportunity here because it's open and
freely accessible by everyone is to put
on a show and then you get a million
every year if you if this is a crazy
exciting event the funding is going to
be so easy year after year and the other
aspect we're doing to it is
unfortunately I'm not going to make any
money off this thing it's a nonprofit
and the money from charity except the
only fans but whatever yeah that's the
real cash cow but that's the real work
too yeah and that's not for charity
that's for your personal
bank account the the only fans or you
also that'll be for the follow-up
therapy
but that'll be expensive gig for whoever
takes that on board Love
Hurts that physically will
yeah ticket proceeds to charity so like
obviously we got the $3 million budget
we got production expenses um we got the
team of staff to hire um but if we could
sell this thing out we could potentially
donate a ton of money to charity one of
those Charities is tap cancer out and
what's great about this is Rich burn is
a black belt from New York who's in the
banking world he used to run an event
called casai grappling he went through
cancer he basically had a very
aggressive cancer he had it treated and
now he basically has said to us that
whatever we donate from the profits of
the event he's going to match dollar for
dollar and we've also had another guy
who wants to remain anonymous agreed to
match dollar for dollar as well so
the more ticket sales revenue we can
create here the more we can actually
give back to charity so it's really all
round it's going to be a great event
yeah tap cancer is great and all the
Charities that the athletes have been
selecting are great uh what's been the
hardest you uh you are wearing a suit so
you figured out how to do that but the
tie was difficult for sure the tie was
difficult but you figured it out
and congratulations on that but you've
never run a
tournament no
I've never Wrestled a big woman either
well I have but not in this form not in
a competitive environment for only
fans what's been the hardest aspects of
actually bringing this to life the first
one was people believing it was real
yeah that was quite difficult and then
communicating with the athletes that's
basically where my responsibility is
securing these guys getting these guys
to commit to things they're very it's
very
difficult there's a reason few athletes
in every sport really stand out and it's
kind of professionalism and kind of the
way they Market themselves and I think
those two things do go hand inand so
we're in a sport where there's not
enough money where a lot of these guys
do have managers I think in MMA things
would be a lot easier for the promoter
because you're not talking directly to
the athlete you're talking to a guy who
might who's obviously taking a cut but
like he's there's a middleman so in a
situation where you're talking directly
to the athlete can be very difficult can
be very annoying can very hard to reach
these guys they can be very
non-committal that for me has been one
of the biggest challenges the guys that
I speak to that are like I'm in and
they're like I'm out I'm in like
navigating this area one other aspect is
because we did this basically from idea
to event will be less than three months
three and a half months so it's like
we're having to do so much in such a
short period of time little things like
of the show money we've given them
they're expected to basically
secure their own flight and hotel to the
event we're cutting down on staff cuz
that would be one of the if I had to
coordinate getting these guys flights I
would just jump off a building like it's
it's hard enough to get them to agree to
the event let alone coordinate hey what
date do you want to come in it's like
hurting cats so really just the
interpersonal stuff's been difficult
obviously going up against ADCC the
legacy of M has been pretty damn
difficult as well well established huge
history they've been selling tickets for
two years everyone's knowing it's been
coming for two years that thing was
largely sold out before we even
announced the event so we're going
head-to-head with this event so from a
ticket sales perspective very difficult
what's been uh reddic question what's
been the most surprising people who
turned down on your invite oh I mean we
can we can name names I mean obviously
Kanan he was a semi in semi out his
suggestion was actually to do a second
and third place prize rather than a
million and I'm like no we want a All or
Nothing it's all or nothing here well
that's a better spectacle better
entertainment yeah probably more
injuries but it's All or Nothing Miki
galal The One That Got Away yeah that's
sad but we got the Ros the
Ros props to these kids CU Cade's the
reigning Champion these are two of the
best guys in the
sport
allegedly were offered pretty
significant show money to stay but they
hit me up and they said hey promise us
one thing we're on opposite sides of the
brackets and we'll fight to the death in
the final for the million and we know
everyone knows that we've seen them
compete against each other multiple
times so that was not a surprise because
I know they're good kids but to
basically turn down allegedly show money
to do this event to support the event to
me is incredible miky G things would be
more complicated there like obviously
mik officially joined ADCC before he
secured the Ros Kade beat him in the
final mik is personally motivated to
face off against Kate so he didn't know
Kate was in our event before he agreed
to
ADCC there's more to that story too in
terms of M doing ADCC because a bunch of
the kids in his team I think they've
been flowing out to the ADCC kids event
so there's like his two teammates well
at least one of his teammates will be
doing the ADC the 66 kilo division so
his Co his dad is coach doesn't really
want to split time between two events
that's a difficulty for athletes there
but obviously disappointing we couldn't
secure m m said he was about the Legacy
so he wanted to be the youngest guy ever
the double grand slam which is basically
win all the ghee events and win the ADCC
that same
year my thoughts were I if I was in his
position and I never was obviously a
prodigy Talent like that is I thought he
had a position to make a statement in
the sport to kind of as Jesus sound be
on the right side of History to have
turned down a double grand slam to be in
an event that supports athlete pay again
I don't overly criticize him but I think
in terms of your legacy and reputation
to be at a point and choose to do that
is much more memorable than him getting
that double Grand Slam which I'm sure he
will win the ADCC 77 killer division
this year but it'll be somewhat
tarnished anyway so I I do feel bad for
some of the athletes that win this year
and potentially people be like oh yeah
but there was half the people W in the
division I feel bad for those guys but
at the end of the day most of these guys
had an opportunity to be a part of an
event that really there's no downside
too you have a chance to be paid more
money than you ever been paid in your
life you're
selling tickets that are going to go to
charity and it's not behind a pay wall
so anyone anywhere in the world can
stream this event watch it and there's
no barrier to entry in terms of finances
was there ever any chance that uh Gordon
Ryan would enter I don't think so I
don't think so is that something you
tried me and Gordon don't text each
other too often I tag him on Instagram
and things but he doesn't respond mhm
tell me about your history with Nicholas
merali my history with Nicholas maral
actually it dates back to a time where
probably he does not even remember back
when I used to wear a kimono so I went
to Abu Dhabi world I was chasing my gee
Dreams yeah I lost in I can't even
remember again probably the final know
me I probably lost in the final against
Tommy Lang laacer in the weight division
this was the last year they did the
absolute I went into the absolute I made
it all the way to the semis Nicholas
marali destroyed me in the gar I did hit
a nice little reversal on him though he
he passed my guard and I somehow
reversed him from side control that's
the only part of the match I share after
which he swept me submitted me you
reversed him from side control yeah okay
so that could be like an instructional
also I could yeah exactly exactly but uh
right place right time though all right
but then years later I left the team
maryy replaced me so they've brought in
a more credential handsome
doesn't speak as well but they've
brought him in he's my replacement he's
coming to the team we face off at ADCC
I'm I do a heavier division thinking I
looked at the names and I was like that
looks like an easier Division and I had
two teammates at the time that were in
my 88 and I was like those guys will
have to face off first round I'll have
to face one of them second round the way
they do the seating and the structure of
the bracket so I was like I'll do 99
I'll leave 88 for the boys they both
lost my division first round
unfortunately so I face off against Mar
gy beginning of day two lot of pressure
because danah used to Corner me used to
be my coach now he's
cornering the Brazilians who we used to
complain about as the enemy and I'm like
what's going on over here like karate
kid stuff I face off against Mary I go
hard early because I think he can't
defend leglocks for the first three
minutes I'm just attacking legs legs
legs I ended up sweeping him getting on
top no points before the points period
but I'm very tired I'm very tired at
this point maral's big like there's some
guys that get Juiced up to hit a certain
weight that's what I did to enter this
division you can't keep your gas tank
maragal is just a big dude I don't who
knows if he's on the juice or not but
he's just naturally sits around 230 LBS
or even
225 when you're naturally that big your
gas Tank's a bit better again if you
balloon yourself up on every substance
possible gas tank surprisingly not too
good so we have a bit of a close one
decision goes my way ultimately finals
next I lose that but that is sort of our
competitive history we were meant to
have a match that had been pre-booked
immediately after ADCC so we agreed to
this before
ADCC I was like the price is right I'm
in so I sign up for it and I'm thinking
ADCC that we're going to face off soon
after mly chose instead to have some
vacation time he wanted to go on
vacation he wanted to have relax bit of
relaxation down in Brazil so the match
is
scrapped Flo hit me up and they say can
you do February and this was about the
time that vogs fored Islam in Perth I
was like no I can't do February because
I'll be helping vulcanos that's going to
take precedence over this match Flo goes
you know what we'll do we'll announce it
anyway we'll sell those tickets anyway
we'll get the people hyped and then
we'll just have you pull out and I'm
like all right do whatever do I'm like
do whatever you want that's
probably not a good idea but they do
that and then people keep trying to
rebook this match but now I barely even
train anymore I'm busy being a promoter
traveling around so now instead of
facing in competition again which I
would do if the price is right they'd
have to pay me very well two of the
shows have offered me the match but the
money terrible what do you think is a
number that would uh would convince
you it would have to be I would think
half a million dollars otherwise I just
can't be bothered yeah you know what I
mean it have to be worth it because to
put a price on a guy that takes himself
as serious as mar mar is a very serious
man he's talking about authenticity he's
talking about words he doesn't even
understand for me to give him the
opportunity to live in a world where he
had won the last match against me it's
hard to put a price on that it's you
know when people say it's not about the
money it's not about the money it's
about me waking up every day knowing
that he knows he lost to me see so you
think you've gotten it in his head yes
how do you think you would do if you
were to face him for the for the said
500,000 for the 500 yeah I think over
five minutes I beat anyone in the world
you still think you got it I still think
I got it Gabby about to find out
too all right so you're G to make a
statement with Gabby like that it'll be
a mat it'll be a match she
remembers yeah she yeah she for sure m I
think the fans remember it as well I'm
open to like if we do this match I'm
taking it very serious but we'd be open
to rematches I've always said I would
have a MMA flight with her I wouldn't be
afraid to hit a big
woman so unlike with merali if you win
you're not going to ride out off to the
sunset with Gabby I'm a bit of a
romantic I think she deserves a few
finishes you know not one and hit the
bed that night so you think you think
you you can actually beat Nicholas mgal
I think so yeah I think I mean you could
throw a riddle at him before the match
that would complicate things for
him for the next hour will you and
Gordon ever get along again I think so I
think we
need the origins of MDMA was couples
therapy in the 70s in Houston I believe
I believe something like that for us
could resolve these underlying issues
you're a man have readd it because they
suggested that you should uh consider
ketamine therapy sessions just imagine a
therapist sitting down with him they
they' be like clear the schedule for the
the next couple weeks with all due
respect Craig I can't imagine a
therapist sitting down with you that
that would be a terrifying I do have a
therapist actually they prescribe me
viance he's he's quite confident in my
is this met andali or what did you
mean it's a Russian Russian
website it's the old Sean connory thing
it's it's not a therapist it's just
something that's spelled the same I
think me and Gordon a debate of some
thought would be awesome like a
political debate yeah me representing
Camala Harris and him representing
Donald Trump
are so intellectual sparring an
intellectual battle a battle of
wits can you just speak to your
trolling is there like Underneath It All
Is there just a a respect the hum human
beings you go after for sure they have
to be worthy of being attacked you know
what I mean like um if someone attack
that's the thing it's like you want a a
worthy adversary not in a sense
of I don't want to battle someone that
has better ban than me because I'm going
to lose but I want to battle someone
with a profile large enough that it
doesn't look like you're just who do you
think is the biggest troll or
talker in in martial arts hanada
Lano yeah well you can't you can't even
put him in the he's in other class of
human
being he's over qualified CH sonen comes
to mind ch's good you versus CH who
who's a better talker if you look
the entirety of the career CH is better
I mean I think if you can talking
MMA cuz there there's far worse
consequences for you if you're still
willing to do it when really violent
things can happen to you I mean I'm
getting death threats but like he he has
a certainty of violence against his uh
opponents in MMA so on Reddit somebody
said you are a coral belt level Troll
and uh just happen to be good at
Jiu-Jitsu so what did it take for you to
rise to the ranks of trolling from white
belt to to Black Belt
to Coral belt like what what's your
journey with talking that's a good
question hey I think it would have
happened after I mov to America CU in
Australia like we just on a daily basis
say some of the worst things you could
ever imagine like in private life yeah
just we're just trying to ruin each
other's day yeah in a way that's so Blas
a you're going back and forth and the
guy that actually gets upset and says
some real that's your Victory you
know what I mean like you're like oh we
got sure you're actually that actually
bothers you all right we'll take that as
a victory all right so when you come to
America and everybody takes themselves a
little too seriously those are just a
bunch of victims you can take advantage
of an Australian entering American
banter is like Neo getting his
Matrix skills you're just like whoa I
see everything coming do you ever look
in the mirror and like regret how hard
you went in the paint at
somebody I don't think so I don't think
you so you're proud of yourself I think
what I offer is some balance it's like
um bringing some justice ultimately
it'll probably come back in spades to me
yeah I don't know as a fan of yours as a
fan of Gordon's also but as a fan of
yours I um I see the love behind it I
don't know it's always it seems always
just fun the talking seems fun I
wish he'd buy it back he does he doesn't
buy it back anymore though what's your
relationship like with Mo the organizer
of ADCC
I mean it's been a love hate
relationship I guess Gabby it's like any
good relationship if you don't get
blocked to the end of it were you really
in love to begin with right that's my
thoughts anyway but so in terms of my
friendship with Mo me and mo were really
close friends for a long time would talk
a lot he was instrumental in us moving
down her Des Squad to Puerto Rico he
lives in Puerto Rico spends most of his
time in Puerto
Rico uh uh I've spent time with him in
Florida
California but in terms of our
relationship I'm trying to think of an
exact time where it went South but I
guess in my him being the ADCC organizer
in my attack of athlete
compensation was taken personally which
is obviously going to ruin whatever
friendship you had and that started
around the time you weren't thinking
about cji I mean to be
honest
cji was a result of the response of my
discussion of athletic
compensation so me and mo had been close
friends even after the Dan of her uh
Team broke up we were still close
friends for quite a while after that but
it does complicate things when someone
is for all intensive purposes he as an
ADCC competitor and he runs ADCC the
event he's in control of it now he is
your boss so that does complicate our
friendship have you had a conversation
since you announced cji have we had a
conversation when did you get blocked I
I honestly didn't get blocked I was just
joking n honestly we had a disagreement
about athlete conversation I said let's
do a podcast and talk about it because
I'm a big fan of
transparency if you think I'm an idiot
for thinking athletes should get paid
more tell me it show show it to me and
I've made public statements other people
have asked why we don't get paid more
money you can both tell me and the world
at the same time that the grappling
world at the same time but was not
interested in doing a podcast again
maybe thought I was going to hit him
with some gotcha questions or something
but really at the end of the day I I
personally believe you got nothing to
hide if you are confident in the
business decision decisions you've made
then there's no gotta moment that I
could actually do I could easily I would
have done the podcast if I look like a
complete idiot would have released it
anyway because it would be a good
message to where we are in the sport but
again considering what I know about
Thomas and Max price which I believe
we're paying $200,000 for and T-Mobile's
$2
million how do you justify no increase
in athlete pay while we have a 1.8
million increase in venue cost so you're
saying there there could potentially be
poor po business decisions poor
allocation of money that could be
reallocated better to support the
athletes I've never once thought this
was some organization where Mo's like
stealing money for himself I'm just
saying
that and again the road to Hell's paved
with good intention so he might fully
think that what he's doing is going to
grow the sport I'm going about it in a
completely different way I don't think
we need T-Mobile I don't think we need a
behind a pay wall I think we need cheap
venue still maintain good quality
production release it for free if you
want something to
grow present it for free is there a
future where the two of you talk yeah
for sure he keeps insisting on talking
face to face I don't have a problem with
that but my argument is this is a public
Feud the public like this is this is a
we're having a disagreement let's settle
the disagreement in a way that answers
the question to the fans
because if one of us is a complete idiot
that I believe the world of people
following this story are entitled to
know which one of us is an idiot if you
talk to him would you be good faith like
would you uh turn off the or turn the
troll down from 11 to like a three yeah
I don't even think I'd need to troll him
i' just say hey why like like show us
the books you know what I mean like
honestly when our event's done we're
going to be pretty transparent
obviously we are ran as a
nonprofit we're going to be pretty
transparent about everything and I mean
obviously ultimately all the views we
get when flow grab when an event on Flow
grab playing or fight pass or any other
streaming provider L it's a pay-per-view
you're not going to know how many people
watched so that's one aspect of what
we're doing is we're going to have a
visual sort of guide to how many people
are fans of grappling yeah transparency
in in all of its forms that's what
bothers me about the IC with the
Olympics is that there's this
organization that puts on an incredible
event but there's it's completely opaque
it's not transparent and the athletes
don't get paid uh almost at all so it's
usually from sponsorships and they they
sell distribution broadcast distribution
and so like it's mostly paywalled after
after the fact it's very unless you're a
super famous athlete or a famous event
it's hard to to watch I don't know the
the uh the early rounds of the
weightlifting or the Judo or the all the
competitions where most of those
athletes get paid almost nothing and
they've dedicated their whole life like
they've sacrificed everything to be
there and we don't get to watch them
openly you can't in many case you can't
even pay for it with with
IC I've got to experience this because
I'll have like podcast conversations
with like judoka for example and I put
like a little clip the podcast and uh
the Olympics Channel takes it down
immediately so they have all the videos
uploaded private they're private oh to
flag the copyright they just flag the
copyright automatically from the private
videos they could release they could
release somewhere even if it's paywalled
which I'm against but pay wall it but
make it super easily accessible so the
flow grappling model is still okay I'm
against it uh but if you do a really
good job of it okay I can kind of
understand a membership fee but like it
should be super easy to use but in the
case of the Olympics first of all in the
case of the Olympics the whole point of
the Olympics is sort of to be accessible
to everybody so pay Walling goes against
the spirit of the Olympic Games and I
would say the same is probably true for
many sports like grappling especially
for major events like ADCC that I feel
like that should be openly accessible to
everybody like on every platform but you
what was the decision like for you to to
make it accessible on YouTube and x and
well I mean just because basically it's
going to grow the sport you know what I
mean like it's if you have to subscribe
to a platform to watch something you
have a mild interest in a mild curiosity
in there's a financial barrier there so
I want to open it up because again we
have an investor who's contributing and
is happy for it to be spent this way
happy for us not to be held hostage by
these sort of streaming providers and
really like again I'm not making
accusations against flow grappling or
UFC F bu they are making the right
business decision by not providing
streamer numbers because that's the
leverage that those people can use
against the streaming provider but for
me as an individual athlete that really
wants to understand the metrics of how
many people actually watch this sport to
leverage that in my own sponsorship
negotiations then if I'm in a position
to have this out free and also give
every athlete involved the same metrics
and information like you'll literally be
able to see the spikes when you compete
and you'll be able to take that and
present it for opportunities for
sponsorships for businesses to say look
look how many views this got I was one
of the most viewed moments of this event
so I want to put the power back in the
athlete and take it away from the host
and it creates a lot of incentive for
the athlete to make it exciting yeah
this is your time it might never happen
again I fully intend to run this every
year that's the goal but again it might
never happen
again is there a possible future where
the 2026 ADCC is run by Craig Jones
could I take over
ADCC I think from an ADCC perspective it
would make a lot of sense I think it
would make a lot of sense to wait to see
if this event turns into fire Festival
first before you commit something like
that but I think a more modern approach
to the promotion of the event again I
keep going back to the commedians you
know what I mean if you're if you want
to grow your brand whatever that may be
provide content for free and you can pay
well eventually you can grow the
audience create the audience free you
know I think the again if your goal is
to
create a huge sport here then it's like
if we're already a niche Sport and
competition aspect of that is it even
smaller Niche then we need to grow that
Pro providing this content for free well
having just chatted with uh with Elon
Musk who fundamentally believes that the
most entertaining outcome is the most
likely that to me if the universe has a
sense of
humor you would certainly Craig Jones
would certainly be running ADCC which
would be I mean it would just be like
beautifully hilarious it would it would
be a poetic yeah ending it be a Underdog
Story from a man that could never win
the event to running the event on behalf
of the shake
tan uh so I saw B videos of uh the cji
camp people training super hard so you
aside who don't seem to do things in a
standard way uh what does it take to
sort of uh put yourself in a peak shape
Peak Performance for for a huge event
like this CJ or the
ADCC I mean it's psychologically it's
really really brutal like for me anytime
I'm leading up to any event of any
meaningful significance it's it's
horrible on a psychological level
because you're always thinking about are
you training enough are you doing enough
if you feel any signs of sickness
injury the stress levels increase your
Sleep Quality decreases it's all those
little subtle things that are so hard to
mitigate so like whether you feel like
you're training hard enough you're
overtraining those to me are the most
difficult aspects and I think really
those are an individual thing and that's
really something where a coach can
provide what he thinks to you is the
right amount of work you know and I
think that's different for different
people I think Nicki Rod could do eight
hours a day you know what I mean I think
Nicki Ryan eight minutes I saw a video
of Nicki Ryan like with a trash can
throwing up yes and and like the top
comment is like that's him doing the
warm-up
that is satisfying to watch
honestly yeah but yeah so you're
supposed to train hard enough to where
you have this confidence that you're
prepared yeah I mean and it's an
impossible thing to grasp it's like um
some of the best performances I've had
I've been C up last minute or I've been
sick or my Camp's been horrible and for
me personally I've gone in there and
thought Oh relaxed almost like oh well
the you know like you got caught up a
week ago you injured you missed four
weeks of your camp and I went in there
super relaxed and accepting of the
result and performed much better
sometimes when I know three months out
I've got an event coming up and that
event only happens every two years it
just the stress of that alone like I I
personally on an individual level more
of a I'd rather wing it I'd rather be in
the stands and just roll down like
Gunner Nelson I remember he had a
brilliant performance in an 80cc
absolute and he was out drinking the
night before he had no idea he was
competing the next day he was in the
stands eating ice cream and they called
his name out for the absolute and he
went out there and I believe he got
bronze I believe he beat Jeff mson so
it's like it's different for different
people obviously you don't want that to
be the standard you've got to be putting
in the work at all times but even now in
my crazy travel schedule where I don't
train anywhere near like I used to as
long as your game is Technical and as
long long as your body's in good
condition I believe you can still train
well against worldclass guys you might
not be able to do an hour straight but
if you're technique
orientated you're just losing Fitness so
is it possible out card to out cardio
Craig Jones like is is your game
fundamentally a technique based game for
sure for sure yeah I've never wanted to
win anything bad enough to train
properly for it right but isn't that the
secret to your success being lazy I
think so I think that's the can can be
the only logical explanation you know
and I also use it as mind games too like
I again no one knows whether what I'm
saying is true or not right and I'm not
saying this story to say anything bad
about my opponent at the time but I
booked two matches and two consecutive
weekends and I'd been traveling I think
I just got back
from one of my trips I've been over
International sow I didn't even know
where the I was but you're in Texas
right now by the way just in case you
forgot Texas just for you just came back
thank you man this an honor but I uh
hadn't really even trained I couldn't
train like I was traveling just had no
ability to train I trained for like a a
week had the Phil row match and I said
to myself I was down in Mexico City and
I said you know
what if you win this match you got to
face levado next week don't go out and
party don't celebrate the victory but as
a 32y old man of the time heting a
flying triangle submission I thought
that deemed a worthy Afterparty yeah and
we got out of control that night and it
wasn't until the next hour World Cup I
was like oh I have Lavado next weekend
but I'm also people don't know whether
I'm telling the truth or not but it's
also I'm almost too honest because I'll
be like doing an interview saying yeah I
was out partying I barely trained the
opponent looks into that and they
question it is he telling the truth is
he baiting me is he really that
unconcerned you know what I mean it's
almost a psychological battle in and of
itself but for the most part it's true
so to you being psychologically relaxed
is extremely important just not giving a
d I wonder what that is not too much
pressure I don't want I don't like the
pressure but you like the pressure when
it comes to internet talking well I
mean you got to silently sit back and
think about a good response you know
yeah how important is it to just go
crazy hard rounds leading up to
competitions like that you said sort of
Nikki but like on average for like
athletes at World Class level do you
have to put in the the hard rounds yeah
I think you have to put in the hard
rounds it depends at what point in your
career you are you know like I think
like someone like Niki Ryan might almost
train to technically too often and when
he comes to competition it's a
confronting experience when someone hits
him hard and he feels that pressure so I
think different people require different
things when Nikki when Nicki Rod is
breaking the spine of a 37y old father a
three bus driver it might be time for
him to train in a more technical manner
so it's like you got to cater it to what
they need and again depending on the
opponent it's a game of strategy you
know like for me when I was more active
I look at an opponent that I want that I
could steal some clout from of which the
clout you can make money and I think to
myself what's the best rul set I can
beat him in mhm that's the strategy and
then how would I beat him in that rule
set so there's so many strategic layers
to to go above and beyond
just the training for me but nowadays I
like to if I train short duration high
intensity that's the best of me I don't
like this six or like 10 six minute
rounds whatever like I don't like this
long training I don't like it's it's for
me it's too much toll on the body I
think um I go to the gym we bang maybe
the first round slightly light and then
just bang it out two hard rounds tops
little bit of problem solving get out of
there CU you want to
feel the a little bit of the competition
intensity that feels the best on my body
uh when you're traveling you're doing
seminars and just doing Jiu-Jitsu with
folks are you training with them I'm
sure there's like from everything I see
people would love to train with
you yeah they want to they wantan to I
mean I don't know what it is
obviously you I guess you it's like
people want to play basketball with like
a basketball star or something you know
what I mean but uh I guess if you played
one-on-one with a basketballer there's
no great risk of injury you know yeah
that's that's that's the real problem is
like uh if you don't roll at your
seminar the seminar participants don't
feel like they got The Full Experience
yeah but there's snipers at these
seminars there's these sharks that are
circling wanting to attack you and you
have to look at it you look at it from
both perspectives I think you should
provide excellent technique excellent
question and answer time and I think you
should roll a little bit for the most
part these days I'll just roll 30
minutes straight I'll just do 10 guys 3
minutes no break 30 minutes straight I
might even get the guy to pick because
again if you some of these guys come in
hot yeah it's terrifying man because so
the thing is like with Anthony
Bourdain sort of analogy here like
you're exploring all parts of the world
you just want to be there in the culture
teach good techniques and just socialize
you don't want to like there's just a
bunch of killers that are trying to like
murder you yeah they they to them
they're like I get to test myself
against a worldclass athlete today and
to you you're like oh I'm in Odessa I'd
like to get to know the people exactly
try some food have a couple drinks and
enjoy the place but to them it's time
it's time to go you got to rope it open
them a bit you know like if I if I meet
pressure with pressure I get tired yeah
but if I don't provide resistance where
they think there should be resistance
now it slows their Pace down they get
shocked a bit but 100% if I'm at a
seminar and someone's rolling too hard
with me if I feel like I might get hurt
I will 100% rip a submission on them you
know what I mean like it's like where
you're confronted with a threat yeah you
have to meet it with a threat it's like
uh I've spoken about this with Ryan hle
r h give him a warning and then gone and
I think it's perfectly acceptable like I
won't endanger them for no reason but if
you're coming hot you better tap fast if
I feel a threat you better tap I'm not
going to break break it for the sake of
breaking it but if you're if you do some
crazy that might potentially hurt
me and I get a
submission and I'm tired if you're fresh
you can catch a heel hook hold it tight
the guy tries to wiggle out you got it
yeah if you're tired and you've been
nice with a heel hook and then they slip
out and Club you on the head then next
time it's going to be the last time well
last time see you're another level you
and Ry Hall just world class but like
for me I'm trying to find navigate
through this cuz I'd like to be able to
roll you know like 10 rounds for fun for
cultural like they're coming for you
too and uh unfortunately ripping
submissions are like you know neon belly
some kind of dominant position people
don't like hear the message at all or if
I let them submit me a bunch of times
they don't calm down either so it's i'
been trying to figure out uh how to
solve that puzzle because i' like to
keep rolling with people across the
world for like for many more years to
come but it's tough you can't do it if
you if you've reached any level of
notoriety whether it's in the sport or
just as a celebrity you're better off to
just have three four trusted training
partners and train privately that's the
sad situation people used to say oh you
could be such and such a go to any gym
no those days are over now now if you
show up and you have any sort of name
they're coming to kill you better
honestly you're better off it's so much
safer TR training is about trusting
trust is built from safe rounds yeah
strangers are scary I don't know I'm
trying to do develop a radar when I look
at a person trying to like figure out
are they are they from Eastern Europe I
tell you what the most D yeah that's a
good one you know what anyone that wears
a pitbull Sports rash guard yeah or
anyone from the country of Poland be
ready oh Polish people go hard people go
hard I've never had a Flor roll with a
Polish person uh somebody on Reddit
asked how many legs did you break in
Eastern Europe three or four to send a
message or just for your own personal
enjoyment I don't enjoy it you know they
you don't enjoy the violence it is
humorous after the fact though but I
mean it's just like hey like bro I'm jet
lagged I'm tired I'm here for you guys
why are you trying to hurt me you know
like if I get a
submission tap don't hesitate at all
don't hesitate you know like it's like
it's I mean you just is dangerous it's a
dangerous thing and when strangers going
crazy it's their sh they think they're
getting invite the cji if they tell me
it's just wild uh So speaking of which
just for the hobbyist for a person just
starting
out what wisdom can you provide like say
you you were tasked with coaching a uh
beginner a hobby as
beginner how would you help
them uh become good in a
year what would be the training regimen
what would be their approach mental
physical in terms of practice to yes I
mean honestly picking safe training
partners and trying to understand the
positions and not just freaking out like
uh you might Escape if you freak out but
you also might be stuck in something and
you injure yourself so it's like I think
if you can it's it's just about
longevity you know like uh if you can
train find a a pace to train at and a
like sort of intensity and the right
people you could potentially train five
years without injury it's really about
how you move if you are always moving in
an explosive way eventually you're going
to do that from a position in which you
can't move and then something's going to
tear and you also want to be able to
trust training Partners to not go too
crazy inflict too much pain you know
what I mean it's like
uh yeah I think I've managed to avoid a
lot of injuries because I just never
roll too athletically
explosively I think I'm probably
incapable of moving at that R of speed
so that's part of it is you the way you
move but I guess you also don't allow
anybody to put you in a really bad
position in terms of hurting you I let
them put me in bad position but I try to
stay relaxed at all times you know
that's the that's the key here is like
uh I mean yeah obviously you got the
cheesy keep it playful but it's like you
if you really keep if you can remain
calm in bad positions that is a skill
that's your confidence not in yourself
but that the other guy is incapable of
submitting you that's the ultimate
confidence you can give them whatever
you want so the thing you want as a
beginner is to focus on minimizing
injury by by relaxing by not going by
not freaking out yeah it's keeping it at
a pace so you can understand what just
happened the thing is like how do you
know if you're freaking out or not as a
beginner it feels like a if you're
panicking yeah if you're P that's a good
if you're I mean I see a lot of
beginners kind of breathing starting to
breathe hard they they tense up that's
probably underneath that is Panic yeah
if you can make someone Panic you will
fatigue them it's the same it's like if
you're even if you're higher level and
you're worried about getting your guard
pasted it's the Panic that leads to
fatigue in your guide retention but if
you're if you're so flexible you remain
calm I think it's cuz you're not
panicked fear is the mind
killer but also you have one of the more
Innovative games in in
Jiu-Jitsu history how do you develop
that how how do how do you continue
throughout your career how how are you
innovating what was your approach to
learning and figuring positions out
figuring submissions out I mean
Financial motivation if you can hit
moves and no one else knows how to do
yeah you can sell those instructionals
but also it keeps it interesting because
it's like uh I mean it can get stagnant
and boring you know like a lot of uh
people get to Blue Bel they're good at
one thing they only do that one thing I
think it's finding creative ways to beat
people and sometimes creativ
is in how they respond to it so if you
can find a humiliating move to do to
someone well not even necessarily
humiliating but a move that is
unexpected when you get who with
something you don't expect I think that
is sort of really one of the most fun
aspects of it you know what I mean like
you train to stay better than the people
you're better than that's what keeps you
in the game and finding creative ways to
beat those people is some of the most
entertainment so that's just something
that brings you Joy uh
is by doing the unexpected yeah trying
to if you get swept with something that
you don't think should
work I think that's
fulfillment so your your game is even a
bit trolly interesting so like but
what's the actual process of like like
with the zard all the Innovative stuff
you've done there how do you come up
with ideas there I mean ju just studying
tape just study study tape and try to
reverse engineer like if I see a if I
see something or I train with someone
and it
feels you know when you have those
moments where you're like oh I don't
even know what they're doing here mhm
and if you can put someone in position
they don't understand that's also where
they Panic so it's like creating
different ways to make people panic but
also I mean just Innovation like having
fun with it you know like I guess uh the
artistic aspect of it is fun you can be
creative and how you can beat people did
you say artistic or autistic both okay
both just
checking uh what's like the most
Innovative thing you've come up with
what's like
some of the cooler ideas you've come up
with on the mat I don't think I've come
up with anything but I've popularized
things you know like certain styles of
leg entry I definitely didn't invent
them but I popularized them octopus
guard playing more from Turtle sort of
the pinning style of game like you could
like as a because of my jokes online put
me in a position of power in the sport
so that when I post content it can
popularize a move or release an
instruction or popularize a game but
it's still I'm I'm not trying to sell
inauthentic products I'm still I want
the technique to work
be functional but put some humor on top
of it like power bottom your
instructional names are pretty good and
but you changed that one I saw the name
of that oh I mean
unfortunately meta the ads were not
appreciating some of that humor so we
had to soften soften the titles a bit
you got a you got a phone call from the
man said change this I didn't allegedly
right the company hosting it
right right uh what do you think about
Zuck in general like uh the fact that he
trains J jits have you got a chance to
train with him cuz you trained I haven't
trained with him I met him when vog
fought earlier we've spoken briefly
interesting guy for sure um loves
Jiu-Jitsu loves MMA he's really
intending to compete in something I
think competing in Jiu-Jitsu intends to
compete in MMA has a beginner's mind is
humble about it interesting was he ever
in consideration for cji as a oh I mean
we would love to have him would love to
have him but he is coming off of ACL
surgery I think he's returned to sport
is August so I think he'll be back
training again soon yeah what's your
relationship has been like with with
with wowski like what what have you
learned about martial arts about
grappling in different domains just
training with him I mean for me
personally what's so interesting about
volkanovski is his I guess where came
from you know like it's like uh you have
pre-existing ideas of what a UFC
champion is again I say it's similar to
when I started training Jiu-Jitsu and I
first traveled to America and got to
train with some really famous people you
realize how relatable they are in some
aspects volcanos trains a freestyle and
it is humble beginnings humble Origins
like it's like uh it's a small gym in a
small sort of Beachside city they're
running puzzle mans you know what I mean
you think UFC champion you don't think
puzzle Matt Jim you know what I mean
like he's not training at a American top
team he's not at one of these big gyms
so to me it just shows what you're
capable of through hard work and sort of
self-educating in such an isolated place
it's insane to me that he's still
considered probably the pound-for-pound
best featherweight ever in my opinion
and he's basically come across and
started late from a rugby
background but also in terms of what
I've learned on a technical level I've
picked up a lot of stuff from him in
sort of grappling exchanges how to get
back up obviously wo wrestling um in
terms of how Hardy trains how Hardy
works the cardio aspect is insane his
cardio workouts are absolutely insane so
he's the opposite of you complete
opposite of me probably publicly and
privately as as an athlete yeah the
amount of work he puts puts in and just
his uh sheer sort of mental willpower I
remember there's been a couple of times
where I've watched him do weight Cuts
where like that's horrible you're
watching your your friend you know
obviously we started as like basically I
would help him in certain Jiu-Jitsu
aspects and then becomes a close friend
of yours but the whole process of the
MMA fight is horrible especially when
you care about the person fighting
because some of those weight Cuts you
see are awful like you basically seen
guys's eyes rolled back in their head
like him just powering through a 5 kilo
10 lb cut yeah and just constantly
talking about how easy it is but well
clearly you I mean these guys look like
they're dying you know like to push
through that and then to push through
some of the moments in his in his fight
to watch him be completely relaxed until
like 5 minutes before the fight and then
he starts talking about you're never
going to take this belt away from my
family like he's singing about his
family before he fights his kids you
know you see the character change it's
just absolutely insane to watch on the
other side of that is obviously watching
the ups and downs there's been so many
UPS the last two have been Downs so you
see in the full spectrum of the highest
highs and the lowest lows how's he able
to deal psychologically with with loss I
don't know obviously still hungry still
motivated yeah obviously I thrive in a
losing environment but him
him on the other hand I'm not sure I we
we don't talk too much on that level
obviously we check in his friends see
what he's up to see what he's planning
yeah uh we were trying to get him a
grappling match at cji I won't say the
reasons it fell throughh but we were
setting one up with mik mamichi but we
couldn't get it
done and you can't say the reasons why
can't say the reason but would have been
would have been awesome you think you
could have set that up if you had more
time like set something like like part
of the challenge here is for some of
these gigantic matchups I feel like it
takes time yeah
that being the promoter tournament not
as bad the super fights really really
difficult I don't think we could have
set it up with more time that particular
match but that was the dream that's what
we were hoping to do but there's a lot
of other interesting matchups you could
have possibly gotten through if there's
more time yeah I'd love to see I I mean
personally I really want to see vogs and
alga have an actual grappling match cuz
we saw him get out of those deep
submissions and apply a ton of ground
and P I'd love to see him just have a
grappling match I'd love to see more of
the UFC stars have grappling matches
especially if they've had any head
trauma in a fight it's like he let's
keep him busy because as you see some of
those guys go crazy if they can't train
uh what about the fights against mov you
think V can beat him I think the first
fight shy could beat him for sure showed
it's possible even in the second fight
when he reversed the grappling exchange
I wish he'd tried to take makev down I
really think he has a huge strength
advantage against makev and I personally
believe he has a fence wrestling
Advantage you might not see it in a in a
sense of the technical hip tosses and
things like that like really but I do
believe V one of the best if not the
best C dresser in the world who do you
think wins in a grappling match that
would be interesting be interesting the
problem is to almost to while you while
you are Champion like Islam is you could
just never book him you could never get
it what do you think uh makes the
dastani wrestlers and Fighters so so
good I mean I think personally those
guys are just like they just love it
it's just about like
uh it's how they train like it's a fight
to the death you know what I mean like
it's just built in them they don't want
to concede an inch ever I think for MMA
and wrestling that can be very very good
I think sometimes when those guys come
over to Jitsu specific events they get
leg lock they fall into traps overly
aggressive or overly evasive but I think
the way they train just is perfect for a
fight a fight they can just forward
pressure eat some shots grind a guy
against the
wall fence resing is technical Jiu-Jitsu
is far more technical there's way more
things you can do in a grappling
scenario from top and bottom than I I
think against the wall so a grinding
nature of how they train works really
good to walk a guy down and take him
down against the wall and then obviously
would ground and pound very good to hold
a guy down so I think just never
conceding an inch and training it's just
they've done that since they were born
basically so you learn how to grind
somebody down yeah like they're just
trying to break each other at all times
trying to have some dominance over other
over their friends and train with but
you think in the grappling context
that's that that will not always
translate no not when you can pull guard
and submit from your back I think that
sort of negates some of that grinding
pressure I think that has to be met with
more slow technical lateral movement I
think that's the way you like that's
that would be the dream for me is a guy
just comes straight forward into my
guard so that grind that grinding
approach works well if he's taken me
down and got already close to me but if
if I'm laying flat on my back and he's
standing and he has to engage he has all
that danger at range yeah but if he can
connect to my body before we go down
yeah now we're in his world again I
think I wonder if it's like you know
Edis Prime could be versus you for
example who do you think wins there
buggy Chu for sure buggy Chu no way I
know you're
joking we getting with the buggy aring
really so you you can get the buggy
choke on at the highest at the highest
level can you educate me on that like
that legitimately can work at the
highest level Bucky choke for sure yeah
catch anyone really okay you know the
buggy
believer I I'm not I'm not a buggy hater
either I'm
just I'm agnostic on the buggy choke
kabib would go to sleep for sure yeah
yeah there's no way he would tap to a
buggy chug I tried who was it I faced
recently I faced Russian guy from Tatar
I couldn't buggy him I had I was trying
to close guard one though sort of like a
it is harder to pull off but he I had to
put him to sleep twice at the end of the
match with a triangle but he was just
willing like I don't know Eastern
European guys it's like what like they F
they treating it like a real fight you
know have you ever like gone hard with a
dastani person like grappling wrestling
any of the fighters on any of the MMA
guys have I have I have I I mean they do
train hard they do train hard when I did
the seminar in Odessa it was out of
school but another school in the city
brought like 10 dagani guys all of them
went insanely hard okay I was like guys
what's okay I it's a small sample size
but they all wanted to be broken what do
you think you as the wise Sage of
Jiu-Jitsu if you look 10 20 years out
how do you think the game is going to
evolve the art of it the art of it I
mean I think obviously people are going
to keep innovating
perfecting certain things throwing out
information bad sort of techniques bad
sort of but Ian so hard to predict it's
like that's the game of making money off
the instructionals is predicting where
we go next it's so so difficult what do
you think is going to be the most
popular submissions on CGI and ADCC this
year is it going be full locks or you're
naked I think uh actually CJ
I I think there's going to be a lot of
guys that don't tap that take injuries
yeah a small concern is that a guy wins
the match but is so injured he's can
barely go on to the next match yeah but
win the battle lose the war we are going
to see that aren't we people refusing to
tap we actually we did the walkth
through yesterday and we were like one
ambulance is not enough get a second one
here yeah cuz if they take one guy
injured to hospital we can't continue
until an ambulance comes back so these
guys are are going to go everyone will
be dag standing for a day yeah that's
what I think this t to
achieve but progression it would just be
the integration of wrestling into
Jiu-Jitsu you know I think that would be
the most exciting way the sport could
progress is
basically folk style wrestling but an
integration of submissions from a
standing position to if you just follow
the rules of you should always be
fighting to get on top whether that's a
submission that leads to a sweep or a
sweep and you should be trying to avoid
being pinned and as long as the Gang
revolves around that and guys engage
each other offensively on the feet that
would be the most exciting best way to
um watch the sport yeah when I show the
sport as you Jitsu the most exciting
stuff is whenever both people want to be
like wrestling scrambling wrestling they
want both want to get on top that looks
like fighting versus guard stuff I'm a
guy that totally agrees with you but if
I think the guy's a better wrestler I
will concede you know like it's like
that's the G that's the the hard part
but then the whole the whole crowd will
then mock you ceaselessly as they should
for conceding that's what the million
should be we should have a tournament or
round robin thing where it's like the
million goes to the most exciting man
yeah who took the most risks I mean in a
way that's what's going to happen
because this is quite open so they the
the benefit of being exciting is you're
going to be glorified on social media
and if you're going to be boring and
stall you're going to be endlessly sort
of ified and forget about Metals social
media glory is all that matters well in
a certain sense on a basic human level
yeah I mean not what all that matters
but it's you're not going to if you're
going to stall you're going to become a
meme I feel like especially with CGI and
so is there are the refs going to try to
stop stalling yeah we're going to
penalize them hard hit them hard get
that boring out of here so what
percentage of athletes would you say are
on
steroids is it 100% anyone that's ever
beaten me okay they're taking more
steroids than
me I don't know I wanted to uh test them
but not to do anything bad but just in
the name of science to see what people
are running you know it's so hard to say
cuz you like you train with people and
they don't even tell you what they're on
I tell the world what I'm on and they go
look at you you're not taking any
steroids it's like it's like a such a
secret secret thing I personally think
it's almost impossible to say
but the but occasionally you look at a
guy and you you're pretty certain you
know yeah the looks of it but it could
also go the other way certain people are
just genetically built and they look
like they are and then there's probably
others like yourself it's a it's a
self-defense mechanism because you'd
rather assume that that guy was on
steroids than his genetics are so far
superior to
yours you're like n it must be
ster yeah that's the part of uh
accusation of people being a steroids
that I hate it's like without data
people are just like it's it's a way
they can say that somebody's cheating
without because I like celebrating
people and sometimes people aren't on
steroids and they aren't cheating and
they're just good what about
Gabby
Garcia um I think she's beautiful
strong uh and you're a lucky man to
share the mat with her should be
honored and I have I'm betting a huge
amount of money on her so me too
either way you're going to get paid
she's paying 11 to one I bet on love as
well so we are aligned in that way love
will prevail okay you put Alex Jones to
sleep uh just to reflect back on
that what was he was too work he needed
it so you that's you fighting the woke M
virus or whatever finger was on the
pulse too much what was that like I
didn't I didn't see the the full video I
just saw the little clip I thought he
was dead for a second but I for some
strange reason couldn't stop laughing
yeah I don't know I was like please wake
up there's something there's something
funny about it yeah I was like his blood
prees higher than mine I hope that
didn't cook him yeah that would be quite
sad it's so crazy he's murder somebody
yeah he's probably the most just
entertaining human being ever of like
just just he just says the crate like
off air he's always on it's like that's
just he's always ready to to say some
wild the craziest possible
what's it like going to sleep I somehow
have never gone to sleep I went to sleep
one time l jobs was demonstrating a
technique on me but I woke up straight
away but for 10 seconds I didn't know
who I was where I was what I was doing
but that's it that's the only time about
went
out didn't feel good though some people
say it feels good did not feel good cuz
you were like what panicked lost yeah
was just I just didn't know what was
going on yeah and then you load that's a
cool that must be a cool feeling to load
it all back in like realize where am I I
feel like that sometimes in a hotel when
I'm like traveling it's like where the
am I again like when you wake up
maybe that's what it's like some people
push it too far David Kine you know what
what I'm I'm too I'm too dumb to get
that
joke autoerotic asphixiation oh good
thank you thank you now I know uh so
given all the place you've gone all the
people you've seen
recently what gives you hope about this
whole thing we got going on about
Humanity about this
world we start War sometimes we do
horrible things to each other
sometimes W I missed all that what gives
you hope that you can still make fun of
anything as long as it's
funny that's what I'm that's what I'm
fighting for people talk about cancel
culture I just think the joke wasn't
funny
enough head pull
delivery well thank you for being at the
Forefront of making fun of everything
and anything and thank you for talking
today brother thank you
by thanks for listening to this
conversation with Craig Jones to support
this podcast please check out our
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me leave you with some words from
Anthony
Bourdain travel changes you as you move
through this life and this world you
change things slightly you leave marks
behind however small and in return life
and travel leaves marks on you
thank you for listening and hope to see
you next time