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Language: en
communism makes no sense at all totally
opposed to human nature it never works
it always evolves into dictatorship it
creates a power vacuum when you say hey
there's no structure of power here right
we're all equal it's a flat line one guy
usually gets up because that's human
nature and goes uh I don't think so I
think if you're going to leave a power
vacuum I'm going to take that power
vacuum corporatism hates competition it
wants Monopoly and oligopoly power
whereas capitalism loves competition and
wants to free markets when mainstream
media has you hooked you got no hope
because you don't have the right
information you have propaganda you have
marketing you don't have real news when
you're in the online world it's chaotic
and don't get me wrong it's got plenty
of downsides right but within that chaos
the truth begins to emerge Trump is a
massive risk because of all the things
we talked about earlier but there is a
percentage chance that he's such a wild
card that he overturns the whole system
and that is why the establishment is a
little scared of
him the following is a conversation with
Jen yuger a progressive political
commentator and host of The Young Turks
as I've said before I will speak with
everyone including on the left and the
right of the political Spectrum always
in good faith with empathy rigor and
backbone sometimes I
fail sometimes I say stupid inaccurate
ineloquent things and I frequently
change my mind as I'm learning and
thinking about the world for all this I
often get attacked sometimes fairly
sometimes not but just know that I'm
aware when I fall short and I will keep
trying to do better I love you all this
is Alex Freedman podcast to support it
please check out our sponsors in the
description and now dear friends here's
Jen
yuger you wrote a book yeah a Manifesto
that outlines the progressive vision for
America so the big question what are
some defining ideas of
progressivism yes so in order to do that
Lex we got to uh talk about where we are
in the political spectrum and uh in fact
there's two different uh spectrums now
people often think of left right uh and
that's true that exists but layered on
top of that is now populist versus
establishment
so I'm Center left on the Left Right
Spectrum um but I'm all the way on the
populist end of of the second Spectrum
so where does progressivism lie within
that well uh I would argue that it's
exactly in those places it's populist uh
and it's on the left but it is not
far-left so far-left is a different
animal and we could talk about that in a
little bit so so in terms of what makes
a progressive so expand the circle of
Liberty and uh justice for all and
equality of opportunity now people will
say well that seems pretty Broad and
All-American but is it think about it so
expand the circle of Liberty uh
everybody's in favor of that right no
absolutely not so uh certainly the king
of England was not in favor of expanding
the circle of Liberty and the founding
fathers said we're going to expand it
and they expanded it to propertied white
men and then progressives have been
they're progressives because they
expanded the circle of Liberty they then
from then on as we're perfecting the
union progressives always say expand it
further include women include people
without property include all Races and
at every turn conservatives fight
against it so that doesn't mean if
you're conservative today you don't want
to include women or uh minorities Etc
but but today you would say for example
well I don't want to expand the circle
of Liberty to for example undocumented
immigrants and maybe you're right about
that and we could have that discussion
in terms of a specific philosophy and I
don't believe that undocumented
immigrants should immediately be
citizens or anything along those lines
but I do believe in expanding Liberty
overall and the Contour of that are
what's interesting and then you say
justice for all everybody's for just no
right now marijuana possession is still
illegal in a lot of parts of the uh
country now a lot of right- wiers and
left Wingers agree that it should be
legal but for for my entire lifetime uh
black people have been arrested at about
3.7 times the rate of white people and
the entire country has been fine with it
so is that Justice no they smoke white
people black people smoke marijuana at
the same rate black people get arrested
about four times the rate that is an
injustice that an enormous percentage of
the country was comfortable with well
progressives aren't comfortable with it
we want justice for all so the equality
of opportunity is an interesting one
because the farle will say
at least some portions of them will say
equality of results right so
progressives just want a fair chance so
free college education but afterwards
you don't get to have exact same results
as either the wealthiest person or we're
not all going to be equal we don't have
equal talents skills abilities Etc
there's a lot of questions I can ask
there so on the circle of Liberty yes so
expanding the number of people whose
freedoms are protected but what about
the magnitude of freedom for each
individual person so uh expanding the
freedom of the individual and protecting
the freedom as an individual it seems
like progressives are more willing to
expand the size of government where
government can do all kinds of
Regulation all kinds of controls on the
individual so Lex what we're probably
going to talk about a lot today is
balance and so a lot of people think oh
I I'm on the right I'm on the left and
that comes with a certain preset
ideology so the right is always correct
the left is always correct so there's
two problems with that number one how
could you possibly believe in a preset
ideology if you're an independent
thinker it's literally by definition not
possible if you say I lent my brain to
an ideology that was created 80 years
ago or 8 years ago or 800 years ago and
I'm not going to change it you're saying
I don't think for myself I you know I
bought into a culture and by the way
there's a lot of different forms of
culture you could buy into religion
politics sometimes uh racial Etc so
that's why you need actually balance the
second reason you need balance other
than independent thought is because the
answer is almost never black and white
and that gets into a really interesting
Nuance because Mainstreet media in my
opinion is the Matrix and its job is to
delude you into thinking corporate rule
is great for you and we should never
change it and the status quo is
wonderful so they have created a false
middle what mainstream media calls
moderate is actually in my opinion
extremist corporate ideology so for
example they'll say Joe Mansion is a
moderate none of his positions are
moderate other than potentially gun
control in West Virginia he's not for
gun control the people of West Virginia
are not for gun control generally
speaking so and he uses that and they
usually have these shiny objects where
they're like you see this I'm a moderate
because of guns or I'm a moderate
because I'm a Democrat from West
Virginia but wait let's look at your
positions you're against paid family
leave that pulls at 84% so you're a
radical corporatist who say that women
should be forced back in work the day
after they have birth you're against the
higher minimum wage you're against
you're for every corporate position and
they all PLL at 33% or less so Joe
Mansion is not all a moderate and this
applies to almost every corporate
Republican and every corporate Democrat
they're all extremists in in supporting
what I call corporatism so you have to
get to a balance in order to get to the
right answer so that's an interesting
distinction here so you're actually as
far as I understand Pro capitalism yes
which is an interesting place to be
that's the thing that probably makes you
Center left and then still populist
you're you're full of uh beautiful
contradictions that say this which will
be great to untangle but what what's the
difference between corporatism and
capitalism is there a difference yeah
so I I really believe in capitalism I I
don't think that there's really a second
choice um the in where it gets super
interesting is the distinction between
capitalism and socialism because that's
not at all as clear as people think it
is and people often say socialism and
communism as synonms when they're not
synonyms right and so I view it as
there's basically four uh distinct areas
it's obviously a spectrum everything is
a spectrum right on one end you have
communism on the left and on the other
end you have corporatism on the right
okay and I would argue that capitalism
is in the middle and so communism we
know uh State owns all property you're
not allowed to have private property so
I will piss off a lot of people in this
show and so I'm asking for their
patience please hear me out and because
don't worry I'm going to piss off the
other side too okay so communism makes
no sense at all totally opposed to human
nature it never works it always evolves
into dictatorship because it is not
built for human nature it we're never
going to act like that it's not in our
DNA you could try to wish it into
existence and they have and it never
works and it's because once you have
almost no rules in terms of uh oh all
equal and even though communism
eventually winds up having an enormous
amount of rules right uh it creates a
power vacuum when you say hey there's no
structure of power here right we're all
equal it's a flat line one guy usually
gets up because that's human nature and
goes uh I don't think so I think if
you're going to leave a power vacuum I'm
going to take that power vacuum that's
actually a really interesting way to put
it because when everyone is equal nobody
is in power and human nature is such
that there's everybody's there's a Will
To Power so when you create a power
vacuum somebody's going to to fill it so
the alternative is to have people in
power but there's a balance of power and
then there's like a democratic system
that elects the people in power and
keeps churning and rotating who's inv
that is exactly it Lex you got it
exactly right in my opinion okay so
that's why communism never works and can
never work so they it it's an idea of
like we're all going to work as hard as
we possibly can and take only what we
need where when when has that ever
happened in the history of humanity
right we're just not built that way so
okay we can get into that debate with my
friends on the left Etc now corporatism
is just as extreme and just as dangerous
and that is basically what we have in
America now what we have in America now
and this is another giant trick that the
Matrix played on everybody that they
they did a shell game and all of a
sudden extreme corpor like mansion and
almost every Republican in the Senate
are moderates oh my God Mitch McConnell
all of a sudden is a moderate and uh Etc
as long as you're not a populist
populists are never moderate okay but if
you love corporations and corporate tax
cuts and everything in favor of
Corporations you're magically called a
moderate when you actually according to
the polling have super extreme positions
that the American people hate and by the
way that's part of the reason for the
rise of trump we can come back to that
okay okay but the second shell game is
taking out capitalism putting in
corporatism but still calling it
capitalism okay so what is corporatism
it is when uh corporations slowly take
over the system and create Monopoly and
oligopoly power so that snuffs out
equality of opportunity so how do they
do that H when people say the the system
is
rigged they oftentimes can't explain it
that well and then mainstream media goes
you sound
conspiratorial rigged yeah I wonder how
yeah super easy to explain it here's one
of dozens of examples carried interest
loophole so that is for hedge funds
private Equity the the top people on
Wall Street they that's part of their
income they get 2 and 20 right so 2% is
a flat fee no matter what happens to the
fund and 20% of the profits of the fund
goes back to the people who invested it
it's not their money it's not their
investment uh what they're getting is
actually just income and should be taxed
at the highest rate but it's because of
this loophole it's taxed at a much lower
rate at around 20% so do you know at
what income level you go above 20% if
you're a regular Joe it's at $84,000 a
year so these billionaires are getting
the same tax rate as people making
$84,000 a year it's unbel believably
unfair uh and that's corporatism taking
over and starting to rig the rules I'm
going to pay less taxes you're going to
pay more taxes okay so again I can give
you dozens of those examples so and
mergers so that they get to oligopoly
power that's how you rig a system
lowering the corporate tax rates making
sure that there is no real minimum wage
making sure there's no Universal Health
Care we all get become indentured
servants of Corporations they take away
power from the average guy give it to
the most powerful people in the world so
and but the most important distinction
Le is that corporatism hates competition
it wants Monopoly and oligopoly power
whereas capitalism loves competition and
wants the free markets and I remember uh
you know we started Young Turks back in
2002 so we've been around for 22 years
longest running Daily Show on the
internet ever uh and so we were be pre-
Iraq War and Iraq war stars and Dick
Cheney starts handing out no bid
contracts I'm like what part of
capitalism is a no bid contract you
can't negotiate drug
prices the most anti-free Market thing I
have ever heard it's almost like
communism for corporations they get
everything you they're it and there you
get nothing right so it's it's
Preposterous it's awful and and it kills
the free markets and it's killing the
this country and it is the main ideology
and religion of the establish are all
companies built the same here so when
you say
corporatism uh it seems like just
looking here at the list of uh by
industry uh lobbyists it seems like
there are certain industries that are
worse offenders than others like
Pharmaceuticals uh like Insurance oil
and gas yeah so it seems to me
it feels wrong to just throw all
companies into the same bucket of like
they're all guilty no they're not all
guilty so let's make a bunch of
distinctions here so first of all uh can
you first of all are they quote unquote
guilty no they're doing something that
is logical and natural right so if your
a company do you want to pay higher
taxes or lower taxes of course you want
to pay lower taxes right do you want to
have higher employee costs or lower
employee costs of course you want lower
employee costs right so but the
government needs to understand that and
protect us from that power that they are
going to exercise to get to those
results and if you if you think free
markets is there is no government you
you read it wrong go re go back and
reread Adam Smith he says You must
protect against Monopoly power if you do
not protect against Monopoly power you
will have no free markets and he's
absolutely right so second distinction
is between small business in big
business that's why Republicans will
always be like oh we're doing this for
small business that's why we got the
biggest oil companies in the world $30
billion in subsidies what happened to
small business right so I run a small
business and so if people were to say
like hey uh maybe there should be
exemptions for some of the regulations
if your company has less than five
employees 10 employees 50 employees Etc
there's some logic in that because
businesses have different stages of
growth and they have different interests
and different needs in those stages of
growth and we want to facilitate small
business growth because that's great for
the economy that's great for uh markets
Freedom Etc but the bigger corporations
even there there's a third distinction
it isn't that there's certain industries
that are worse there's just that there
are industries that are better at
lobbying so anyone who like right now
number one donor in Washington a lot of
people make a mistake they think it's
APAC or they think it's the oil company
companies or the banks no it's big
Pharma okay and who has the most power
in this country big Pharma so we can't
even negotiate the drug prices I mean
look guys think about it this way that's
like saying okay here's a bottle of
water and normally in the free market
that would cost about a dollar right and
in the uh for Medicare the drug
companies come in and go no I'm not
charging a dollar for that water I'm
charging $100 and the government has to
say yes sir thank you sir of course sir
we'll pay $100
that's the that's that's why compared to
communism because I can't imagine
anything more diametrically opposed to
the free market then you the consumer
have to pay whatever the hell a
corporation charges that's Insanity let
alone the patents let alone the fact
that the American people pay for the
research and then they make billions of
dollars off of it and we get nothing but
robbed by them so it's about Lobby power
oil companies have huge Lobby Power
Defense contractors hu have huge Lobby
power it's not that they're more evil
it's just that they have figured out the
game better and they have basically
taken the influence they need to capture
the market capture the government and
and snuff out all competition well or a
lot of comp uh figured out the game
better so I think a lot of
companies are good at
winning the right way by building better
products by um you know making people
happier with the work they're they're
doing and when at the game of capitalism
and then there's other companies that
win at the game of lobbying and I just
want to sort of draw that distinction
because I think it's a small subset of
companies that are playing the game of
lobbying it's a big Pharma so Lex I
first of all you have to set rules for
what makes sense not oh I don't like
this industry or I don't like this
company or hey this company is not doing
that much lobbying at this point they
will later when they realize what's
going on so for example in my opinion
APAC has totally bought almost all of
Congress
and so now other countries are going to
wake up and go wait you could just buy
the American government so APAC is going
to spend about a100 million in this
cycle and they're going to and then
they're getting 26 billion back so every
country in the world is soon going to
realize oh take American citizens that
live there get them a tremendous amount
of money and just buy the US government
right so that but for corporations
they've already realized that on a
massive scale right so for example in
the two industries you gave Automotive
so in New Jersey about a decade ago or
so one of the most powerful lobbies is
uh car dealerships so at the national
level you got Pharma and you've got
defense contractors Etc at the local
level guys who have huge Power number
one is utilities number two is real
estate and then car dealerships are
hilariously among the top right because
it's local businesses that are you know
financing the politicians at the local
level so they passed a law uh saying
that uh you have to sell through
dealerships but Tesla doesn't sell
through dealerships and it was intended
to bully intimidate and push out Tesla
out of the market they then did that in
a number of different states throughout
the country so does that make any sense
in a democracy of course not why you
could why do you have to sell your
product through a specific vehicle or
medium you can sell it any way you like
that's the most anti-free Market thing
possible why it was just total utter
corruption and but it's not but it's
perfectly legal the Supreme Court
legalized bribery so then what happened
in that case so then Elon came in and
gave campaign contributions and reversed
it so now we're in a battle where it's
an open auction right different
companies are buying different
politicians and then they're pretending
to have debates about principles and
ideas Etc so now let's look at Tech um
in the beginning Facebook was not
spending any money in politics or almost
any money in politics so what happens
they're getting hammered they getting
pulled into Congressional hearings and
Facebook's got fake news and oh my God
all these trouble from Facebook then
Facebook does the logical thing oh it
turns out I need to grease these sons of
okay so then they hire a whole
bunch of Republican Consultants they go
grease all the Republicans and most of
the corporate Democrats and then all of
a sudden we're no longer talking about
Facebook at all and Facebook are angels
and now we've turned our attention to
who Facebook's top competitor Tik Tock
funny how that works okay and by the way
then Donald Trump goes oh and Tik tok's
big dangerous company they working with
China okay and then Jeff Yas comes in on
this cycle part owner of Tik Tock and he
doesn't want Tik Tok banished of course
right so he gives Trump a couple of
million dollars Trump turns around the
next day and goes we love Tik Tock Tik
tok's a good company right so that's a
big contributor to uh influencing what
politicians say and what they think but
it's not the entire thing right no it is
it's 98% I'll go on mainstream media and
they'll be like oh I see what you're
saying I I can see how that influences
politicians about 10% I'm like no no
it's 98% so and even a lot of good
people think it's 50/50 they have
principles and they have money no they
have money and this smid of principles
that's why I wanted to clarify 982 okay
so how do we how do we fix it so it's
really interesting and nice that you're
Pro capitalism and anti- corporatism so
how do we create a system where uh the
free market can rule where capitalism
can rule we can have these vibrant
flourishing of all these companies
competing against each other and
creating awesome stuff yeah uh so in the
book I call it Democratic capitalism as
opposed to Bernie's Democratic socialism
right we can get into that distinction
in a minute but
um so as Adam Smith said and anyone who
studies uh capitalism knows you need the
government to protect the market as well
as the people because so like why do we
have cops because if we don't have cops
somebody's going to go well I like Lex's
equ equipment why don't I just go into
his house and take it right so you need
the cops to protect you and that's the
government so people say I hate big
government do you right it depends right
if your house is getting robbed all of a
sudden you like the government but you
also need comps on Wall Street because
if you allow insider trading the
powerful are going to rob you blind and
the little guy's going to get screwed so
that's this easy example and so if you
don't have those cops the bad guys are
going to take over they're going to set
the rules rig the rules in their favor
so that that's why you need regulation
and so the Republicans on purpose made
regulation a dirty word they're like oh
all regulation is bad and and then
sometimes on the left people fall for
the Trap of all regulation is good a guy
I like in on has a great analogy on this
Matt Stoler he's one of the original I
would argue progressives and there's
about four of us I'm sure there's more
but that have stayed true to the
original meaning of progressivism and
populism me Matt Stoler David seroa Ryan
Grim okay and they used to be in that
original blogger group there was guys
like Glenn Greenwald and other
interesting cats right but they went in
different direction
so Matt has a great line he says um if
somebody comes up to you and says how
big a pipe do you
want there is no answer for that it
depends on the job doesn't it right what
are we doing what are we building I I'm
going to tell you the size of the pipe
depending on the project so when people
say are you in favor of Regulation or
against it that's an absurd question of
course you need regulation it just means
laws right so don't kill your neighbor
is a regulation right so uh my idea is a
simple one and one we're going to keep
coming back to balance so when my dad
was a small business owner in New Jersey
and and they inspected the elevator six
times a year that was overregulation and
I said to my dad so should they not
inspect it at all I'm a young kid
growing up and he said no no you got to
inspect it at least twice a year I said
why he said because in Turkey sometimes
they don't inspect it and then the
elevator Falls
okay so so bounds of Reason correct
regulation to protect the markets and to
protect the American people yeah but
finding the right level of Regulation
especially in for example in Tech
something I'm much more familiar with is
very difficult because uh people in
Congress are living in in the 20th
century before the internet was uh uh
invented so like how are they supposed
to come up with regulations yeah that's
the idea of the free market is you
should be able to sort of compete the
market regulates and then the government
can step in and protect uh the market
from forming monopolies for example
which is easier to do yeah but that's a
form of Regulation right but then
there's like more check in the elevator
twice a year that's a more sort of
specific watching micromanaging so Lex
here's the deal there's no way around
the the laws are made by politicians
okay so and so you can't give up then
and go oh it's a bunch of Schmucks who I
think most politicians are just servants
for the donor class I the you know the
media makes it sound like they're the
best of us oh they deserve a lot of
honor and respect and they kiss their
ass Etc I think generally speaking
they're usually the worst of us
especially in this corpor structure
right because they're the guys who uh
their number one Talent is yes sir no
sir what would you like me to do with
your donor money sir absolutely I'll
serve you completely or 98% right so in
this structure the politicians are the
worst of us but at some point you need
somebody elected to be your
representative to do Democratic
capitalism so that you have capitalism
but it's checked by the government on
behalf of the people it's the people
that are saying these are the rules of
the land and and you have to abide by
them so the how do you get to the best
possible answer and which is related to
an earlier question you asked Lex which
is the number one thing you have to do
is get big money out of politics
everything else is near impossible as
long as we are drowned in money and
whoever has more money wins and by the
way when it comes to legislation again
that's true about 98% of the time like
we predict things ahead of time people
are like wow how did you know that that
bill wasn't going to pass or was going
to pass it's the easiest thing in the
world and we like literally like teach
our audience on The Young Turks watch
you'll be able to see for yourself and
now like our members commented 10 they
do these predictions they're almost
always right right because it's so
simple follow the money so if you get
big money out of politics and I could
explain how to do that in this act um
then you're at a place where you got
your best shot at honest Representatives
that are going to try their best to get
to the right answer are they going to
get to the right answer out of the gate
usually not so they pass a law there's
something wrong with the law they then
fix that part they it's a pendulum you
know you don't want it to swing too
wildly but you do need a little bit of
oscillation in that pendulum to get to
the right balance by the way I I was uh
listening to uh Joe Biden from when he
was like 30 years old the speeches he
was eloquent as hell it's fun to listen
to actually and he has a speech he gives
or just maybe a conversation in Congress
I'm not sure where where he talks about
how corrupt the whole system is and he
he's really honest and like fun and uh
that Joe Biden is great by the way that
guy I mean age age sucks you know people
get older but he was talking quite
honestly about like having to suck up to
all these uh rich people and that he
couldn't really suck up to the really
rich people uh uh they said uh come back
to us uh 10 years later when you're like
more more integrated into the system but
he was really honest about it he's
saying that's um that's how it is that's
what we have to do and that really sucks
that that's what we have to do yeah so
we did a video on our Tik Tok Channel
then and now of Joe Biden this is when I
was trying to push Biden out we should
say you're one of the people early on
saying Biden used to step down yeah I
started about a year ago because I was
positive that Biden had a 0% chance of
winning and uh and it turned out by the
way uh two days before he dropped out
his inside advisers inside the White
House said yeah near 0% chance of
winning yeah so we were right all along
you got a lot of criticism for that by
the way but yeah yeah we can come back
to that yes I did and which makes it
Tuesday for me uh I get a lot of
criticism for everything uh and by the
way Democratic party you're
welcome so but H B's a really
interesting example I'm really glad you
brought it up so the video on Tik Tok
was just showing Biden then Biden now
and and you're right Biden was so
Dynamic when you see how Dynamic he was
we did like side by side right and then
you see him now going get barely anyways
right you're like oh that's not the same
guy I get it right so and that got like
5 million views because because it
resonates they're like yeah yeah of
course right but when he first started
to the point you were making Le he one
of in fact I know because I talked to
him about this uh his very first bill
was anti-corruption why because at that
point Everything Changes in 1976 78 is
Supreme Court decisions that basically
legalize bribery but remember Biden is
ancient so he's coming into politics at
a time when money has not yet drowned
politics and in fact the American
population is super pissed about the
fact that it's begun they don't like
corruption so early Biden because he's
reading the room is very anti-corruption
and the first bill he proposes is to get
money out of politics okay but as Biden
goes on for his epic 200-year career in
Washington he starts to get not more
conservative more corporate because he's
just taking more and more money by the
middle of his career he has a nickname
the senator from
MBNA okay MBNA was a credit card company
based in Delaware the reason he had that
nickname is because there isn't anything
Joe Biden wouldn't have done for credit
card companies and corporations based in
Delaware which are almost all
corporations okay so he became the most
corporate senator in the country and
hence the most beloved by corporate
media and corporate media is checked him
his entire career until about a month
ago so for example in the primaries both
in 2020 and 2024 if you said the senator
from MBNA I guarantee you almost no one
in the audience has heard of it if you
heard of it good job you know politics
really well okay but the reason you
didn't hear of it is because the
mainstream media wouldn't say that's
outrageous of Joe Biden to be such a
corporate stooge they'd say that's
outrageous of you to point out something
that's true and something we reported on
earlier okay and so they protected him
at all costs now
finally when you get to this version of
Joe Biden we he can't talk he can't won
he's he he Bears no resemblance to the
young guy who came in saying that money
in politics was a problem now he's
saying money in politics is the solution
and in 2020 he said well I can raise
more money than Bernie I I I can kiss
corporate ass better than Bernie I'm the
biggest corporate ass kisser in the
world so I'm going to raise a billion
dollars and you need to support me now
of course he doesn't say it in those
words but that was a message to The
Establishment and buddish kachar Obama
kurn everybody goes that's right Biden
Biden Biden Biden not
Bernie I don't know that there's anybody
in the country who instinctually
dislikes Bernie more than Barack
Obama oh that's an interesting I'm not
taking that attention at this moment
let's because you mentioned mainstream
media what's the motivation for
mainstream media to be corporatist also
so first of all they're giant
Corporation
so they're all multibillion Dollar
corpor in the old days we had incredible
number of media Outlets so you go to San
Francisco there'd be at least two papers
and there'd be a paper boy and I'm going
all the way back paper boy on each
corner and they're competing with one
another literally they'd be caty corner
right and one guy's going oh I hear all
this details they're trying to get an
audience they're trying to get people
interested so they're populous they're
interesting they're mck rakers they're
challenging the government fast for to
now or not now but about a decade ago
five years ago in that ball in that
ballpark now there's only six giant cor
media corporations left and it's an
oligopoly right and they're all
multi-billion dollar corporations they
all want tax cuts half of them are also
especially about 20 years ago during the
Iraq War half of them are defense
contractors so they're just using the
news as marketing to start wars like the
Iraq War and then GE which owned MSNBC
makes a tremendous amount of money so
much more money from war than it does
from media that media is a good
marketing spend for these corporations
now that's part of it that they
themselves want the same exact thing as
Corp the rest of Corporations do for
corporate rule lower tax cuts
deregulation so they can merge Etc but
the second part of it is arguably even
more
important so where does all that money
in politics go so for examp example in
2022 it's just a midterm election not no
presidential should be lower spending a
ridiculous $7 billion are spent okay on
on the election cycle where does the 17
billion go almost all of it goes into
corporate media mainstream media
television newspapers radio they're
buying ads like nuts so we have a
reporter at tyt David Schuster he used
to work at MSNBC Fox News Etc and David
wants to appe piece about money and
politics at a local NBC news station and
his uh editor or GM spiked the story and
David goes into his office and asks him
so why this story is true it's a huge
part of politics if we're going to
report on this issue we got to tell you
what's actually happening so he says
David come here puts his arm around his
shoulders takes him to the big news room
and he goes you see all this money in
politics paid for that
that's really fascinating so big
corporations are giving money to
politicians through different channels
and then the politicians are spending
that money on mainstream media and and
and so there's a there's a vicious cycle
where it's in the interest of the
mainstream media not to criticize the
very corporations that are feeding that
cycle so not actually direct it's not
like corporations or cuz I I was
thinking one of the ways is direct
advertisement like Pharmaceuticals
obviously advertise a lot on uh
mainstream media but there's also
indirect which is like giving the
politicians money the or or super Pacs
and the super Pacs and spend money on
the that's why media never took
mainstream media never talks about the
number one factor in politics which is
money like we all know I mean you now we
as we talked about earlier we see it
with our own eyes open auction any
country any company anybody that has
money the politicians will now literally
say I am now working for this guy As
Trump says because he gave me a strong
endorsement which means a lot of money
right and so and the Press never covers
it almost never right so you're telling
me you're doing a an article on the
infrastructure build or build back
better Etc and you're not going to
mention the enormous amount of money
that every Lobby is spent on that bill
that's absurd that's absurd that's 98%
of the ball game and the reason they
hide the ball is because they don't want
you to know this whole thing is based on
the money that they are receiving and
and by the way that one more thing about
that Lex it's that the ads themselves
actually they
work and they work pretty well but
that's not the main reason you spend
money on ads you spend the money in ads
to get friendly coverage from the
content from the free media that you're
getting from that same Outlet and so
since every newspaper and every news uh
television station and network knows
that the Democratic party and the
Republican Party are their top clients
they're going to get billions of dollars
from them they never really criticize
the Republican and Democratic party on
the other hand if you're an outsider
they'll rip your face
off that's also really interesting so if
you're an Advertiser if you're a big
farmer and you're
advertising it's not the that the
advertisement works it's that the the
hosts are too
afraid not like explicitly just even
implicitly they're self-censoring
they're not going to have any guests
that are like controversial anti- big
farmer or they're not going to make any
jokes about big farmer they're not going
to make and that and that kind of that
continues and expands that's really
interesting sometimes it's super direct
when I was a host on MSNBC I uh had a a
company uh that I was criticizing in my
uh
and management looked at it and by the
way I used to go off prompter aot and it
drove him crazy not because I wasn't
good at it I I think my ratings went up
whenever I went off prompter but because
they couldn't pre-approve the script and
what do they want to pre-approve hey are
you going to criticize one of our
sponsors one of our advertisers Etc so
they H we had a giant fight over it and
the compromise was I mooved them lower
in the script but kept them in the story
right so sometimes it's super direct
like that but more way more often it's
implicit it's indirect you don't have to
say it right so I I give you an
spectacular example of it so that you
get a sense of how it works implicitly
so since G is a giant defense contractor
they own MSNBC at the time of the Iraq
War they fired everyone who was against
the Iraq War on air so Phil Donahue
Jesse Ventura Ashley Banfield but Ashley
bfield they did something different with
okay she was a rising star at the time
she goes and gives a speech in Kansas
not really even having a policy position
but just talking about the actual cost
of this Iraq war and how we should be
really careful they hate that so they
take their rising star and they take her
off air okay and she goes okay good let
me add of my contract it's okay I'll go
because she was such a star at that time
she could have easily gotten somewhere
else and they go no we're not going to
let you out of your contract why not you
going to pay me to do nothing yeah not
only that we're moving your office where
are you moving it to they literally
moved it into a closet okay and they
made sure that everybody in the building
saw her getting taken off the air and
moved into a closet the closet is the
memo right that's the memo to the whole
building you better shut up and do as
you're told okay so that way I don't
have to tell you and get myself in
trouble it's super obvious there are
guard rails here and you are not allowed
to go beyond acceptable thought an
acceptable thought is our sponsors are
great politicians are great the powerful
are great so how do we uh how do we
begin to fix that and what exactly are
we fixing is it the the influence of the
lobbyist the influence of like it feels
like
there's uh companies have found
different ways to achieve influence
right so how do we get money out of
politics so it's very difficult but
doable and we will do it so but in order
to do it the populist left and the
populist right have have to unite
because and that by the way that is why
we have the cultural Wars that's why
you're voting for
Trump no chance okay so we can get into
that in a minute so the culture wars are
meant to divide us if we if we get
united we have enough leverage and power
to be able to do it but uh you can't do
it through a normal bill because if you
do it in a bill the whole point of
capturing the Supreme Court was to make
sure that they kill any piece of
legislation that would protect the
American people you're saying the
Supreme Court is also captured by this
oh 100% so okay so let me explain again
people for the uninitiated they think oh
that sounds conspiratorial well in this
case that's actually somewhat true
because people now know about this it's
the pow memo right the most infamous
political memo in history Lewis Powell
writes a memo for the Chamber of
Commerce in 1971 that's basically a
blueprint for how the Chamber of
Commerce can take over the government
and Lewis Powell explains one of the
most important things you have to do is
take over the media but even more
important than that is taking over the
Supreme Court because the Supreme Court
is the ultimate Arbiter of what is
allowed and not allowed and he
says we need quote activist
judges to uh to help business interests
on the court okay and then Nixon reads
the memo and goes that sounds like a
really good idea how about I put you on
the Supreme Court and he puts Lewis
Powell the guy who wrote the memo on the
Supreme Court where he's the decid in
vote in balot and uh and uh Buckley so
bat's those two decisions are 76 to 78
and what they say is yeah yeah I read
the Constitution and it says that money
is speech no it isn't and no it didn't
that's not even close to true they just
made it up and they said okay in
corporations they're human beings no
they're not that's preposterous right
and they have the same inalienable
rights as human beings and citizens do
and money is speech and speech is an
inalienable right so corporations can
spend unlimited money in politics and
there goes our democracy gone okay so
citizens united just shot a dead horse
with a Gatling gun and made it worse and
put it on steroids but it was already
dead in 78 so that's why every chart you
you see for the rest of your life you'll
see this um every chart in about the
American economy starts diverge in 1978
so until 38 to 78 we have golden 40
Years of economic
Prosperity we create the greatest middle
class the world has ever seen and uh our
productivity is skyh high but our wages
match our productivity after
78 productivity is still Skyhigh best in
the world okay sometimes people oh the
American workers lazy not remotely true
we work our ass off okay but wages just
Flatline and they've been flatlining for
about 50 years straight and the reason
is because the Supreme Court made briber
IL legal so in order to get past the
Supreme Court you only have one choice
that's an amendment and so you have to
get an amendment amendments are very
difficult but so for example you you
need two-thirds of Congress to even
propose the amendment so well why would
Congress propose an amendment that would
take away their own power right cuz
almost everybody Congress got there
through corruption their main Talent is
I can kiss corporate ass better than you
can right so I they take the most amount
a person with more money in Congress
wins 95% of the time right but the good
news is the founding fathers were
Geniuses and they put in a second outlet
they said or two-thirds of the states
can call for a convention where you can
propose an amendment and after an
amendment is proposed then three
quarters of the states have to ratify it
that's what makes it so difficult
because getting three quarters of the
states there's so many red States so
many blue States getting three quarters
of the states they agree is near
impossible but there is one issue that
the whole country agrees on 93% of
Americans believe that politicians serve
their donors and not their voters so
this is the one thing we can unite on if
we unite on this we push our states to
call for a convention we all go to the
convention together we bring democracy
alive and we propose amendments to the
Constitution and the best Amendment gets
three quarters of the states to ratify
you go above the Supreme Court and you
solve the whole thing so if 93% of
people want this why hasn't it happened
yet I mean the obvious answer is there's
uh corporate control of the media and
the politicians but it seems like our
current system and the megaphone that a
president has you should be able to kind
of unite the populist left and right so
it shouldn't be that difficult to do
like hasn't a person like Trump who's a
billionaire mhm or on the left um a rich
businessman run just on this and win
well eventually they will right and so
that's why I actually have a lot of Hope
even though things seem super dark right
now so uh and that's why I was for
Bernie so I I can come back to that but
why hasn't Trump done it as easy he's
like what am I a sucker the guy gives me
money I do what the guy wants why would
I get rid of that that's how I got into
power and so that's how I'm doing it now
I get go to Miram Adon and say give me
$100 million and I'll let Israel Annex
the West Bank right so I'll go to the
oil companies and give me a billion
dollars and I'll give you tax subsidies
I'll let you drill I'll take away
regulation why would I stop that you
think he likes money more than he likes
being popular
because uh there there's a big part of
him as a populist in the sense that like
he loves being admired by large masses
of people yeah so and you're absolutely
right but that is the fault of Maga and
so Maga you're screwing populace in a
way that is
infuriating okay and smart Libertarians
like Dave Smith have figured this out
and that's why he's just as mad at Trump
as I am and uh and it's because he took
a populist movement and he redirected it
for his own personal gain magga figure
it out come on right and so if you say
oh you think Democrats have figured out
that Poli no they largely haven't
figured it out either and I think
there's blue Maga and I could talk about
that as well but for those of us on the
populist left yeah we're not enamored by
politicians and for example when Bernie
does the wrong thing we call him out
well why I'm not Bernie's not my goddamn
Uncle I don't I don't like him for some
personality reason it's not a cult of
personality you do the right thing I
love you for you do the wrong thing I'm
gonna kick your ass for it right so but
Donald Trump does this massive
ridiculous corruption over and over
again and mago's like I'm here for it
love it as long as you're doing the
corruption I'm okay with it what does
Trump what does Trump say about getting
money out of politics does he he says
nothing about it go magga why haven't
you held him to account like so when
Bernie helped Biden take out $15 minimum
wage from the Senate bill on the first
uh bill that was introducing the Biden
Administration we went nuts we did a
petition we sent in videos to Bernie our
audience Going H don't kill it Bernie
don't kill it and so Bernie then
reintroduced it as an amendment it got
voted down but he did the the right
thing right that is US holding our top
leader accountable and saying you better
get back on track okay cuz we're not
here for you and your personal self
aggrandisement we're here for policy
right and if magga was actually here for
policy they would have absolutely
leveled Trump on the fact that he I mean
remember what he ran on drain the swamp
that's why he won in 2016 right I so I
predicted on ABC right after the DNC and
Hillary Clinton was up 10 12 points
whatever she was and I said Trump would
win okay and they the whole panel
laughed out loud right they're like get
get Al to this crazy guy I said he's a
populist who seems to hate The
Establishment in a in a populist time
and so and drain the SW swamp is is a
great uh slogan uh and I knew he would
win when he was in a republican debate
and he
said I paid all these guys before I paid
them and they did whatever I wanted and
I was like that's so true right and
people will love that and especially
Republican voters will love that I
actually have a lot of respect for
Republican voters because they actually
genuinely hate corruption so what would
an amendment look like that uh helps
prevent money being an influence in
politics so I started a group called
Wolfpack um and name thank you
wolfpack.com and and the reason why I
named a Wolfpack is because everyone in
Washington I knew would hate that name m
um it's a populist name and everybody in
Washington Snickers like now you're
supposed to name it Americans for
America and just trick people Etc no no
no Wolfpack means we're coming for you
okay we're not coming for you in a
weirdo physical or violent way we're
coming for you in a democratic way okay
so we're going to go to those State uh
houses we're going to get them to
propose a convention and we did it in
five states but then the Democratic
party started beating us back we'll get
to that and uh and so uh we are going to
overturn your apple cart and we're going
to bring put the American people back in
charge so what does the amendment say
number one uh a lot of people will have
uh different opinions on what it should
say and that's what you sort out in a
convention so for example one of the
things that conservatives can propose
which makes sense is term limits because
the reason why these super old
politicians are in charge is because
they provide a return on investment so
you know if you give to Biden Pelosi or
mcconell they're going to deliver for
you they love that turn on a message
they don't want to risk it on a new guy
the new guy might have principles ew or
you know might want to actually do a
little bit for his voters boo whereas
these old you know and every corrupt
system has these old guys hanging around
that help maintain power Etc so my
particular proposal in amendments would
be a couple of things one is end private
financing of Elections so if and look
look if you're a business person you're
a capitalist you know this with absolute
certainty if somebody signs your check
that's the person you work for right so
if private interests are funding
politicians the politicians will serve
private interest and then you're going
to get into a fight like Elon did in New
Jersey where the car dealerships and
Tesla are getting into an auction can I
hear 100,000 no a million 2 million 3
million right and and now you got to go
bribe the government official that's
called a campaign contribution and this
is a terrible system right and the
private financing go to complete public
financing of Elections that's when the
conservatives because they've been
propagandized by corporate media yes
mainstream media got into your head too
and right-wing media got into your head
too and right-wing media also financed
by a lot of this corrupt interest and so
they tell you oh you don't want to
publicly Finance oh my God you'd be
spending like a billion dollars on
politicians brother they spending
trillions of dollars of your money
because they're financed by the guys
that they're giving all of your money to
so can you educate me does that uh
prevent something like citizen United so
like super Pacs are all gone in this
case so allone so indirect funding is
also indirect funding is gone direct
funding's gone you you have to set up
some thresholds not everybody can just
get money to run you have to prove that
you have some sort of uh popular support
So signature
Gathering you would still allow for
small money donations like up to $100
something along those lines not not
5,000 or whatever it is now yeah I think
5,000 is too high but those are fine
debates yeah you know but you basically
want to create an incentive everything
is about incentives and disincentives
again capitalists realize this better
than anyone else right so you want to
set up an incentive to serve your voters
not your donors so if you take away
private donors well there goes that
incentive and that's gigantic right and
then if you set up small Grassroots
funding is a way to get past the
threshold to get the funding to run an
election well then good because then
you're serving small donors which are
generally voters right so that's what
you want and ending private financing is
critical but the second thing is ending
corporate personhood so this is where
you get into a lot of fights because
there's two reasons one is some folks
have a principal position against it and
they say well I mean uh the Sierra Club
is technically a corporation ACLU is
technically a corporation and so if you
end corporate personhood then uh they
you know that could endanger their
existence right no it doesn't endanger
their existence at all right so it
doesn't endanger GM or ge's existence it
doesn't endanger anybody's existence
corporations exist we're not trying to
take them away I would never do that
right that's not smart that's not
workable Etc we're just saying they
don't have constitutional rights so they
have the rights that we give them and by
the way read the founding fathers is
also in my book they hated corporations
the American Revolution was partly
against the British East India Company
and so the Tea Party in Boston was
against that Corporation they threw
their tea overboard it was not against
the British Monarchy and so they and all
the founding fathers warned us over and
over again watch out for corporations
okay because once they form they will
amass money and power and look to kill
off democracy and they were totally
right that's exactly what happened and
so it's not that you don't have them
it's that you through Democratic
capitalism you limit their power they
definitely they you can give them a
bunch of Rights you say hey you have a
right to exist you have a right to do
this this and this okay but you do not
have constitutional rights of a of a
citizen and so you don't have the right
to speak
to a politician by giving them a billion
dollars and you believe that the people
will be able to find the right policies
to regulate and tax the corporations
such that capitalism can flourish still
yes you know why cuz I'm a real populist
and I believe in the people so I that I
drive the establishment crazy because
they don't believe in the people they
think Jake have you seen Maga have you
seen these guys have you seen the
radicals on the left we're so much
smarter you know how many ivy league
degrees we have right and we know what
we're doing no you don't no you're
everybody to some degree looks out for
their own interests right why I like
capitalism and why I love democracy is
because it's the wisdom of the crowd and
so in the long run the crowd is Right
oftentimes in the short term we're wrong
okay but the wisdom of the crowd in the
long run is much much better than the
elites that run things the elites say
well we're so smart and educated so
we're going to better what's good for
you no brother you're going to know
what's better for you and and and so
here's something that a lot of people
get wrong on the populist left and right
they think oh those guys are evil
they're not evil i' I've met them I
worked at MSNBC I worked on cable I I
went to Wharton you know Columbia Law I
know a lot of those guys and so they're
not at all evil they don't even know
that they're mainly serving their own
interests they just naturally do it
right and so they think the carot
interest loophole makes a lot of sense
right they think corporate tax cuts
makes a lot of sense you not not getting
higher wages you not having healthare
makes a lot of sense it doesn't make any
goddamn sense but they get themselves to
believe it and that's another part
portion of the Invisible Hand on the
market so there there's problems with
every every path uh so the elite like
you mentioned can be corrupted by greed
by power and so on but the crowd I agree
with you by the way about the wisdom of
the crowd versus the wisdom of the elite
but the crowd can be captured by
charismatic leader so the problem with
populism and I'm probably a populist
myself the problem with populism is it
it can be and has been throughout
history captured by bad people but if
you say to me trust the elites or trust
the people I'm going to trust the people
every single time well that's why you're
such an interesting I don't want to say
contradiction but there's a tension that
creates the balance so to me in the way
you're speaking might uh result in
hurting capitalism so it's it's easy to
in fighting corporatism to um to hurt
companies so to go too far the other way
yeah companies so like when you talked
about corporate tax so what's what's the
magic what's the magic number for the
corporate tax cuz if it's too
high like companies leave right
companies have so much power right now
this pendulum has swung so far and we're
guys we're almost out of time the
window's closing the minute private
Equity buys all of our homes the
residential real estate market we're
screwed we're indentured servants
forever okay there goes wealth creation
for the average American so your right
lik to it's that it's not a
contradiction it's a tension that is
inevitable to get to balance the reason
why people kind of can't figure me out
they're like well you're on the left but
you're a capitalist Etc that's not a
contradiction that's getting to the
right balance and in order to do that
like if you say well if we change the
system I'm afraid of change because what
if the pendulum swings too far in the
other direction right well then you
would be opposed to change at all times
so if you do that it it actually reminds
me of the Biden fight right so I'm like
guys he has he has no almost no chance
of winning he stands for the
establishment he can't talk but then the
number one push back I'd get from
Democrats was yeah but what if we change
it's so scary we don't know about kamla
Harris what if it's not kamla Harris
it's so scary don't change and I'm like
yeah but if you say change might be
worse it also might be better and you're
at zero anything is better right and
right now in terms of corruption in
America we're at 98% corruption so we
got 2% decency left brother this is when
you want change and so to and and and
Lex if you actually have wisdom of the
crowd just like in supply and demand and
how it works in
economics it works the same way in a
functioning democracy you go too far you
come back in so for example when Reagan
came in office me and my dad my family
we were Republicans why at that point
the mar highest marginal tax rate was at
70% 70% is too high right now they then
he brought it all the way down to 28%
that's too low right so and and but and
that's how the the system modulates
itself already we were headed towards
corruption and because it's the 80s now
we're past 78 magic 78 marker right so
and and even Carter was way more
conserved economically Than People
realize because we're already getting
pass it by the time it's in his
administration but the bot line is yes
you're go whenever you have real wisdom
of the crowd whether it's in business or
in politics you're going to have
fluctuation you're going to have that
pendulum swinging back and forth you
don't want wild swings communism
corporatism right you want to get to hey
where where's the right balance here
between capitalism and what people think
is socialism yeah so I
guess uh I agree with most of the things
you said about the
corruption uh I just wish there would be
more
celebration of the fact that capitalism
and some incredible companies in the
history of the 20th century has created
so much wealth so much Innovation that
has increased the quality of life on
average they've also increased the
wealth inequality and exploitation of
the workers and this kind of stuff but
you you want to not forget to celebrate
the awesomeness that companies have also
brought outside the political sphere
just in creating awesome stuff look I
run a company yeah and so I don't want
companies to go away and and I don't
want you to hate all companies I think
Young Turks is a wonderful company right
we provide great health care we take
care of our employees we care about the
community Etc and we're building a whole
Nation online on on those principles and
the right way to run a company right um
but guys we're at the wrong part of the
pendulum the companies have overwhelming
power and they're crushing us we're like
uh that scene and star Wars with the
trash compactors closing in on them the
walls are closing in we're almost out of
time because they've captured the
government almost entirely they're only
serving corporate interests we've got to
get back into balance before it's too
late and that's why I care so much about
structural issues
so I form Justice Democrats so that's
AOC Etc right that's people know it as
the squad they know it as just Democrats
Etc I'm one of the co-founders of that
and my number one rule was no corporate
pack money okay so you're not allowed to
take corporate pack money by the way now
Matt Gates and Josh Holly have stopped
taking corporate pack money and they've
become to some degree on economic issues
genuine populists it's amazing it
happens overnight all of a sudden
they're holding they're talking about
holding corporations accountable Etc now
just Democrats wind up having other
problems they got too deep into social
issues not economic issues there's a
general sort of criticism of
billionaires right this idea now you
could say that billionaires are avoiding
taxes and they're not getting taxed
enough but I think under that flag of
criticizing billionaires is criticizing
all uh companies that do epic that
build stuff oh okay so that create stuff
that that's that's what I'm worried
about I don't hear enough like genuine
you know I like celebrating people I
like celebrating ideas I just don't hear
enough genuine celebration of companies
when they do because okay so are you
right not about companies but about
capitalism yes because you know you look
at life expectancy 200 years ago and you
look at it now and you go wow holy
we did amazing things right so and what
happened in the last 200 years we went
from dictatorships more towards
democracy wisdom of the crowd we went
from you know surfs and indentured
servants and a nobility that holds the
land to more towards capitalism and boom
the crowd is right things go really well
me the advances in medicine are amazing
and medicine is a great example so and
on our show I point all those things out
and I say look we hate the drug
companies because of how they capture
the government right but we don't hate
the drug companies for creating great
drugs that those drugs save lives they
save my life they save countless
Millions upon millions of lives so the
right idea isn't shut down drug
companies the right idea is don't let
them buy the government right so and and
I know we get back into our instinctual
shells so on the left they'll be oh we
should get rid of all
billionaires why like how does that fix
the system tell me how it fixes the
system and I'm all ears right U my
solution is end private financing then
you can be a billionaire all you like
you can't buy the government right
that's a more logical way to go about it
I've never worn an Eat the Rich shirt
and it drives me crazy I'm like you
would have eaten FDR right and FDR is
the best president most populous
president in my opinion and so no
there's wonderful rich people of course
of course there's a range of humanity
right but you don't want to get rid of
the rich you don't want to get rid of
companies but you also don't want to let
them control everything so okay here
I'll give you an example that's really
and that informs a lot of how I think
about things uh which is my dad so my
dad was a farmer in Southeastern turkey
near the Syrian border no money um in
fact his dad died when he was 6 months
old and he uh and so they were saddled
with debt and uh no electricity in his
house like as poor as poor gets and uh
he wound up living the American dream
and
so how did he do that what what made the
difference uh well what made the
difference is opportunity right
so I'm a populist because my dad was in
the masses right and and the elites say
the masses are no good we're smart
you're not we're educated you're not uh
we we meritocracy we talk about that we
have earned Merit and if you're poor
middle class you have not earned Merit
okay you're useless and worthless and I
hate that so what did uh turkey do back
in the 1960s that Liber ated my dad they
provided free college education you had
to test into it okay but the top
15% got a free college education at the
best colleges in Turkey so and my uncle
saved all of our Lives when he came to
my dad and said do you like working on
this farm and my dad's like no
right it's super hot it's super hard
it's they got to get up at 4 in the
morning if they're lucky they family
next door gives them a mule if they're
not they got to carry the
themselves okay he's so my uncle told
him work just as hard in school and
you'll be able to get a house a car
pretty girls Etc so my dad works his ass
off gets into the school and he comes
out a mechanical engineer and starts his
own company he creates a company in
Turkey hires hundreds of people he then
moves to America creates a company here
hires tons of people right so do I hate
companies no my dad set up two companies
and and I saw how much it benefited
people I saw how much employees would
come up to my dad 20 30 years later in
the street and hug him and theyd tell me
as a young kid your dad's the most Fair
boss we ever had and we love him for it
right that's how you run a company and
he taught me the value of hard work but
the reason I brought up here is because
he taught me look like skill and ability
is a genetic lottery so you're not going
to just get the rich to win all the
genetic Lottery no there's going to be
tons of poor kids and middle class kids
who have are just as good if not better
you have to provide them the opportunity
the fair chance to succeed you have to
believe in them so this isn't about
disempowering anyone it's about
empowering all of those kids who are
doing the right thing or smart and want
to work hard so they could build their
own companies and add to the economy
What What In general is your view on
meritocracy so I love meritocracy I wish
that we lived in a meritocracy and I
want to drive towards living in a
meritocracy so that's why I don't like
equality of results so okay now people
that are on the left will get super mad
at that and go what do you mean well
okay brother let's say you're at work
and you got one guy who's working his
ass off and the other guy that's go I
don't care I'm not going to do it right
well the guy who works super hard has to
pick up the slack now he's working twice
as hard right and now you want the same
results you want the same salary as that
guy no brother no he's working twice
four times 10 times harder than you
that's not fair fairness matters I lived
we wound up I mean this is we're were in
the suburbs of Jersey but we wound up in
Freehold eventually and we lived across
a farm which is kind of in Central
Jersey it happens right and it was
called fair chance Farm okay I was like
how did I get this amazing right and I
love that I that's the essence of
America and that's what I want to go
back to so we've got to create that
opportunity
not just because it's the moral thing to
do but because it's also the
economically smart thing to do if you
enable all those great people that are
in in in lower income classes and middle
inome classes you're going to get a much
better uh economy a much stronger
democracy so that's the direction we go
so again it's Bob Allen but what do you
think about Dei
policies uh say in Academia and and
companies so the movement as it has
evolved where is that on the balance is
that uh yeah uh how far is it pushing
towards equality of outcome versus
equality of opportunity okay so now
we're getting into social issues right
so this is where we all uh rip each
other apart and then the people at the
top laugh their ass off at us and go we
got a fighting over trans
issues they're killing each other this
hilarious ious and they're so busy they
don't realize we're running the place
right okay but let's engage some people
will look at Dei and go well that just
gives me an
opportunity just like anyone else I love
Dei another person will look at it and
go no that gives that says that you
should be picked above me and I hate Dei
right so the reality of Dei is a little
bit more complicated and so but you got
to go back so first did we need
affirmative action in the 1960s
definitely
why all the firefighter jobs in South
Carolina as an example are are going to
white guys all the long shoreman jobs in
New York La wherever uh you have it are
all going to white guys because that's
how the system was yes also in the north
right it so we now are in a civil rights
area we decide we're going to go towards
equality minorities in that case mainly
uh Black Americans had to find a way to
break in I'm not trying like if you're a
long strowman and it's a good job you
naturally want to pass it on to your son
I get your instinct I don't hate you for
it right but we got to let black kids
also have a shot at it right so you need
it in the beginning but at a certain
point you have to phase it out so when I
was growing up it's now in the late 80s
early 90s I hated affirmative action and
I have been principled on it from day
one I and to this day I don't I'm not in
favor of affirmative action I say it on
the show all the time why I'm a minority
being a Turk a grew up Muslim I'm an
athe IST now but but generally speaking
a Muslim uh is certainly a minority in
America and pretty much a hated one
overall uh so but I didn't check off
Muslim or Turkish or any ethnicity when
I applied to college because I believe a
in a meritocracy as we were talking
about but we don't really have a
meritocracy now and so but so I can come
back to that but but right now but so I
didn't check it off because I didn't
want an unfair Advantage uh because I
want to earn it I want to earn it so now
I'm in law school and I'm hanging out
with right-wingers because at that point
I'm a Republican and one of the guy says
to me about one of our a black student
uh going to Columbia he says oh I wonder
how he got in
here God that is the problem with
affirmative action it devalues the
accomplishments of every minority in the
country you have to transition away from
it if you don't it sets up a cast system
and that cast system is lethal to
democracy so does Dei go too far in some
instances yes but is it a boogeyman
that's going to take all the white jobs
and make them black As Trump would say
black jobs right and give minorities too
much power Etc no the idea isn't to rob
you and to give all the opportunity to
minorities the idea is to make it equal
but as the pendulum swings did it swing
too far in some directions yes so the
left can't acknowledge that and the
right thinks can't acknowledge that of
course at some point you got to give a
chance for others to break in so they
have a fair chance by the way Michelle
Obama had a good line about the black
jobs in the uh the DNC spech where uh
somebody should tell Trump that the
presidency might be just one of those
black
jobs anyway uh but why do you think the
left doesn't acknowledge when di gets
ridiculous which it uh in certain places
and in certain places at a large scale
has has gotten
ridiculous because uh people are taught
uh to just be in the tribe they in and
to believe it 100% like I've gotten
kicked out of every Tri I'm the I might
be the most attacked man in Internet
history partly because we've been around
forever and partly because I disagree
with every part of the political
spectrum because I believe in
independent thought and the minute you
vary a little bit people go nuts and so
the the far-left tribe uh
is going to go with their preset
ideology just like the far right tribe
is so for example on trans issues we've
protected trans people for over 20 years
on The Young Turks we fought for
equality for Trans people and for all
lgbtq people for two decades we did it
way before anyone else did when Biden
came out uh in favor of gay marriage in
2013 we're like this is comically late
so like we're all supposed to like
congratulate him in the year 2013 that
he thinks gay people should have the
same rights as straight people and then
he had to push Obama to get there right
so on the other hand I'm like guys if
you allow trans women to go into
professional sports not at the high
school level but professional sports but
let's say they go into MMA or boxing and
a trans woman I mean it happens in
boxing it happens in MMA punches a a
biologic woman so hard that he that she
kills her right so you're going to set
back trans rights 50 years I'm not
trying to hurt you I'm trying to help
you you have to do bounds of reason so
when I say simple things like that and I
say you give LeBron James every hormone
Blocker on planet Earth he's still going
to dominate the WNBA okay it would be
comical he might score 100 points a
night okay and they'll say that's
outrageous and they've some have called
me Nazi for saying that trans women or
that professional leagues should make
their own decisions on whether they
allow trans women are in or not so why
do they say that because they're so
besieged they think we cannot give an
inch we cannot give any ground if you
give any ground you're a Nazi Okay so
we've got to get out of that mindset
you're not you can't function in a
democracy and be in an extreme position
and expect the rest of the country to go
go towards your extreme position so why
do you think we are not in a
meritocracy so because of the corruption
it's so for example but there's also but
remember corporate media is the Matrix
and they plug you into cable right in
the old days now it's a little bit
different because of online media but
especially 10 years ago and remember we
started 22 years ago so I've Been Losing
My Mind Over how obvious corporate media
corruption has been for decades now
right but no one acknowledged it until
online media got stronger but one of the
myths that corporate media creates is
the myth of meritocracy not that
meritocracy can't exist or shouldn't
exist but they pretend it exists today
so the problem with that myth Lex is
that it gets people thinking well if
they're already rich they must have
merited it by definition so all the rich
have Merit and the reverse of that if if
you're poor middle class well you must
not have merited wealth so you're no
good we don't have to listen to you and
that's a really dangerous awful idea and
so if we get to a de meritocracy one day
I would I'll be the happiest person in
America but right now it's look here
I'll give you an example that I put in
the book and they and it's not us this
other folks in this YouTube video I
can't even quite find out who they were
but it was a brilliant video um and they
said okay we're going to do 100 yard
race but hold on before we start anyone
who has two parents take two steps
forward anyone who has went to college
take another two steps forward anyone
who doesn't have bills to pay for
Education anymore take two steps forward
they do all these things right and then
at the end before they start somebody's
20 yards from the finish line and a lot
of people are still at the starting line
and then they go okay now we're going to
run a race and the guy who's right next
to the Finish Line wins and they go
meritocracy okay so the the the
challenge there is to know which
disparities when you just freeze the
system and observe are actually a result
of some kind of discrimination or flaw
in the system versus the result of
meritocracy of the better of the better
Runner being ahead that's right there
are some parts that are easy to solve
Lex so you know um if you donated to a
politician and he gave you a billion
dollar subsidy that's not meritocracy
right so if you fall in the money you
can see the flaws in the system exactly
and so and again nothing's ever perfect
at any snapshot of History right or of
the moment you're going to be at some
point in the pendulum swing but if you
let if you trust the people and you let
the pendulum swing but not wildly then
you're going to get to the right answers
in the long run so you think uh this
woke mind virus that the right refers to
is is is a problem but not a big problem
no
so the rightwing drives me crazy so look
guys your instincts of populism is
correct your instincts of
anti-corruption is correct right and I
love you for it and so and in a lot of
ways the right-wing voters figured out
the whole system screwed before leftwing
voters did it I shouldn't say leftwing
voters because progressives and leftwing
have been saying it for not only decades
but maybe centuries right but Democratic
voters a lot of Democratic voters some
of them actually like this current
system some of them a lot of them have
been tricked into liking this current
system and the left should be fighting
against corruption harder than the right
but right now unfortunately that's not
the case so there's a lot that I like
about right-wing voters okay but you
guys get tricked on social issues so
easily right so how many people are
involved in trans High School sports and
a girl who should have finished first in
that track thing you race in the middle
of Indiana finished second first of all
this is the big crime this is and how
many people are involved about s 13 out
of a country of 330 million people and
you can't see that that's a distraction
right so and every everything they that
that is like bait that the right-wing
media puts out there they run after I
mean tuer Carlson doing insane segments
about &m should be sexier
uh Potato Mr Potato Head has gender
issues guys get out of there get out of
there it's a trap okay yeah that doesn't
mean that there absolutely it doesn't
mean there's larger scale issues with
things like Dei that aren't so fun to
talk about or viral to talk about on an
anecdotal scale there is uh di does
create a Culture of Fear with with canza
culture and it it does create a kind of
culture that limits the freedom of uh
expression and it does limit the
meritocracy in another way so you're
you're basically saying forget all these
other
problems money is the biggest problem so
first of all on AOC as an example and I
don't mean to pick on her but she won
through the great work of her and shott
chakrabarti and Corbin Trent and others
who were leaders of the Justice
Democrats that went and helped our
campaign they were critical help and we
all told her the same thing so it's not
about me me me and so we all said you've
got to challenge The Establishment and
you got to work on money and politics
first because if you don't work on money
and politics and you don't fix that
you're going to lose on almost all other
issues but she didn't believe us because
it's uncomfortable and all the
progressors that went into Congress they
drive me crazy they think oh no no
you're exaggerating no these are and the
minute they get in all a sudden my
colleagues right your colleagues hate
you and they're going to drive you out
you're a sucker and and Jamal Bowman
Corey Bush what did they do they drove
them out Marie Newman drove them out
right and because they're not on your
side they're not your colleagues and
what happened to $15 minimum wage and I
remember talking to one of those
Congress people I won't leave out the
name and saying hey you know they're not
going to do $15 minimum wage and he's
like oh Jen you're out of the loop Nancy
Pelosi is sure us that they are going to
do $15 minimum wage I'm
like I love you but you're totally wrong
moneyed interests are not going to do
$15 minimum wage you have to start
fighting now right and they didn't get
it so they lost on almost all those
issues CU it's all about incentives and
disincentives and rules if you don't fix
the rules you're going to constantly run
into the same brick wall now the second
issue that we were talking about is in
the culture wars the rest of us are
stuck between the two extreme two
centers right on both sides so the two
Center on the left goes you know if
you're a white woman you need to shut up
and listen now okay that's ridiculous no
you don't if you're a white woman you
have every right to speak out you have
every right that every other human being
has and so would I love for one all of
us to listen to one each one another to
have empathy for one another and go hey
I wonder how a right-winger thinks about
this I wonder how a left Wier thinks
about this I wonder why they think that
way right I love that and I want that so
I want you to listen but I don't want
you to shut up so that 2% gets extreme
and I and I don't like it but on the
right wi you got your 2% who think that
that's all that's happening on the left
and that's all that's happening in
American politics and they think the
entire left believes that tiny 2% right
and so they hate the left and they're
like I'm not going to shut up I'm not
going to wear a mask I'm not going to do
any of these things and I'm not going to
do that's a freedom and and then a
republican comes along and goes oh yeah
that thing you call Freedom that's
deregulation for corporations because
you shouldn't really have freedom
companies should have freedom right and
then the guy goes yeah freedom for Exxon
Mobile no brother they tricked you yeah
that the 2% on each side is a useful
distraction for yes for the corruption
of the politicians via money still we're
I'm talking about the 96% that remains
in the middle and the impact of Dei
policies says on them yeah so here
here's where it gets absurd I'll give
you a good example of absurdity so
um in in a school I believe in
California uh they uh noticed that
Latino students were not doing as well
in AP and honors classes so they
canceled AP and honors classes oh come
on what are you doing you're that's nuts
no your job is to help them get better
grades get better opportunity Etc that's
the harder thing to do and the right
thing to do the your job isn't I'm going
to make everything equal by taking away
the opportunity for Higher Achievement
for other students if that's what you're
doing and you think you're on the left
you're not really on the left I actually
think that's like an authoritarian
position that a no Progressive in their
right mind would be in favor of so but
it's all definitional so here's another
example of definitional Communism like
they say oh my God KLA Harris is a
communist well
when you're telling on yourself brothers
and sisters when you say that that means
a I don't know what communism means and
B I don't have any idea what's going on
in American politics kamla Harris is a
corporatist that's her problem not that
she's a communist she's on the other end
of the spectrum right the I the idea
that KLA Harris would come into office
and say that's it there's no more
private property we're going to take all
of your homes and the St government
property the all your cars Etc she was
not going to get within a billion miles
of that her donors would never allow her
to get within a billion miles of that
that is so Preposterous that when you
say something like that it's
disqualifying like I can't debate
someone who thinks that Democrats are
communists when they're actually largely
corporatist you see what I'm saying yeah
so let's go there so when people call
her a communist they're usually
referring to certain kinds of policies
so do you think um um I mean I think
it's a it's a ridiculous label able to
assign to Comm Harris especially um
given the history of Communism in the
20th century and what those economic and
political uh policies have led to the
the scale of suffering that led to and
it just degrades the meaning of the word
right but to take that seriously why is
she not a communist so you said she's
not a communist because she's a
corporatist okay but
that that can't be okay everybody in
politics is a corporate just almost
almost everybody in politics at corporat
but that doesn't mean the corporations
have completely bought their mind they
have an influence on their mind on
issues that matter to those corporations
yep right like y outside of that they're
still thinking for the voters because
they still have to win the votes
barely okay so here let me give you
example so you you see what I'm saying
so if you just wanted votes um you would
do a lot of what Tim Walls did okay okay
and and by the way a lot of what Bernie
did that's why Bernie who had no media
coverage went from like 2% in 2015 to by
the end about 48% because he was just
doing things that were popular right and
that American people wanted Etc right
because he's not controlled by
corporations by the way neither is Tom
Massie on the right-wing side on the
Republican side right so it's not all
that's why I always say almost all right
so if you're doing things that are
popular people love it so today what
would KLA Harris do if she actually just
wanted to win right so number one she
was try to pass Paid Family Leave right
now why it pulls it
84% and even 74% of Republicans want it
why because it says hey when you have a
baby you should get 12 weeks off bond
with your baby uh right
now for in a lot of states that don't
have paid family leave you have to go
back to work the very next day or you
have to use all of your sick days all
your vacation days just have two one or
two weeks with your baby right so
conservatives love Paid Family Leave
liberals love Paid Family Leave that's
why it poll so high so why isn't she
proposing it it's not in our economic
plan Tim Walls already passed it in
Minnesota he showed how easy it was if
you want votes it's and then you know
what's going to happen if you propose
Paid Family Leave the Republicans are
going to go no our beloved corporations
don't want to spend another dollar on
mobs right and they fall for that trap
and then you're in infinitely better
shape so why why doesn't she do it she
doesn't do it because her corporate
donors don't want her to do it $15
minimum wage layup over two-thirds of
the country wants it because it not only
gives higher wages for minimum wage
folks but it pushes wages up for others
and what do the elit say oh that's going
to drive up inflation you shouldn't get
paid anymore wait wait wait hold on so
you're saying all the other prices
should go up but the only thing that
shouldn't go up is our wages no our
wages should go up okay so these are all
easy ones here's another one
anti-corruption why isn't she running on
getting money out of politics it pulls
it over
90% why isn't Trump running on it
anymore he won when he ran out it in
2016 he didn't mean a word of it but he
he ran on it it was smart they don't do
it because their corporate donors take
their heads off if they do so in
contradiction to that why did she
propose to raise the the corporate uh
tax rate from whatever 21% to 28%
because that's easy because that is
something that's super popular and she's
not going to do it that's why so so guys
this is this is where I break the hearts
of blue Maga uh blue Maga thinks oh my
God these Democrats they're angels and
the right-wingers and the Republicans
are evil and and they they work for big
business but not KLA Harris not Joe
Biden right okay well Donald Trump took
the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%
so that's trillions of dollars that got
transferred cuz guys you got to
understand if the corporations don't pay
it we have to pay it because we're
running up these giant deficits and
eventually either they're going to not
eventually they keep raising our taxes
in different ways that you're not
noticing they keep increasing fees and
fines and different ways for the
government to collect money so we're
paying for it and on top of that
eventually they're going to cut your
Social Security and Medicare because
they're going to say oh we don't have
any options left anymore yeah you don't
have any options left anymore because
you kept giving trillions of dollars in
tax CS to corporations
so we're going to have to pay for that
so then Trump then Biden says oh my God
I'm going to bring corporate taxes back
up to 28% I'm like wait hold on they
were 35 you already did a slide of hand
and said 28 okay then he gets into
office and Mansion says no 25 that's the
highest you I'll go and he goes okay
fine 25 and then while you're not
looking they just dump it they don't
even do 25 it's still a 21 so I hear me
now quote me later I do on the show all
the time cuz you you should hold me
accountable you should hold all your
opponents accountable if you held all
your opponents accountable we'd be the
last man standing and that's kind of
what happened okay so I guarantee you
she will not increase corporate taxes so
would the same be the case for Price
controls or the anti- price gouging that
she's supposing it's not price controls
it's price G anti price gouging it it is
price controls but I mean minimum wages
price controls also now we're going to
get into a lot of minutia but I'll try
to keep it Broad
so price controls are a disaster they
never work if you say oh here's a banana
it has to stay at a dollar a pound make
up a number right well Supply and
demand's going to move and then that's
going to and so the minute it moves to
$2 where the price should be then you're
going to run into shortages so we all
know this it's a bad idea right but are
there laws against price scouching there
already are and they are good idea so
why like you have a natural disaster all
of a sudden uh the water that was a
dollar now they're charging $100 the
government has to come in Democratic
capitalism they come in and go no I'm
going to protect the people so you're
not allowed to price gouch you know
maybe charge $2 Etc but you're not going
to charge a 100 but it is temporary we
get we get that done we end the the
problem there and then we bring it back
to a normal supply and demand okay so
that's what she's
proposing it's that's all political
because the price gouging has already
passed they did it in 21 and 22 and so
now the grocery stores are actually low
margin business she re she says grocery
stores that's how I know she doesn't
mean it because the grocery stores
weren't the problem consumer goods were
the problem yeah those companies she's
following the polls where most people
will say that the groceries are too
expensive so she's just basically
a saying the most popular thing yeah
100% and you could tell in which
proposals she means it and which
proposals she doesn't because of the of
the framing right so this is a mediocre
example but in housing she said we have
to stop private Equity from buying uh
houses in
bulk I'm like huh curious that they put
the word in bulk there why does it have
to be in bulk why don't we just stop
them from buying any residential home
like you could set up normal boundaries
right for example Charlie Kirk was on
The Young Turks this week by the way
sorry to take that tangent I really
enjoy that conversation I really enjoy
that you talk to
that was like civil you guys disagreed
pretty intensely but like there was a
lot of respect I really enjoyed that
thank you brother that was like that was
beautiful you and Charlie Kirk and I
think Anna was there yeah that's right
so it's nice yeah quick tangent and um
look I I've done a lot of yelling online
okay and I I yell when a there's a issue
that you should be passionate about
40,000 people 25,000 women and children
slaughtered in Gaza if you're not
emotionally upset by that and you think
it's no big deal I think that's a
problem but when you add gaslighting on
top that's what drives me crazy and then
when you add filibustering on top then
that sets me off so for all my life
rightwing has gone on cable and fill
Buster they take up so much more time
than the leftwing guest and the leftwing
guest always like goes oh okay well I'm
offended he's taking up too much time no
brother go over the top go over the top
you're not going to talk over me I'm
going to talk over you okay so and uh
and then when you Gaslight and you go oh
no 1,200 people in Israel being killed
is awful which it is but 40,000 people
being killed in Gaza it's no big deal we
should keep giving them money keep
killing keep killing and that that's
normal no it's not normal I'm not going
to let you say it's normal that's nuts
okay when you like we were against the
irq war there was only two shows that
were on the air nationally that were
against the Iraq War us and democracy
now with Amy
Goodman and and at the time I used to
yell all the time because mainstream
media would gas like the out of us
we're going to be greeted as liberators
me and Ben manit's on the air Ben
doesn't yell as much he's now the host
Turner Classic Movies but we're he's
saying it in a calm way I'm saying it in
a screaming way we're not going to be
greeted as liberators when you drop a
bomb on someone's head they don't greet
you as a liberator stop saying insane
things and seven out of 10 Americans
thought that Saddam Hussein had
personally attacked us on 911 we got
lied into that war by corporate media
okay now the there's one there's a
couple of good things that Trump has
done one is get people to realize
corporate media is the Matrix right and
so now and get them to an anti-war
position he himself doesn't have an
anti-war position but his voters do and
that's a positive we can come back to
that but these days the reason why the
Charlie Kirk conversations are going
great and Rudy juliani and Mike Lindell
and historically though we've been go
back again 10 years 20 years we've
always been respectful when someone
comes on our show and we have a debate
as long as they're not yelling I match
the tenor of the host right you and I
are having a reasonable conversation I'm
not raising my voice I'm not yelling at
you for no reason right so now when
Charlie's not going to battle anymore
for like talking points I'm shutting off
my mind all I'm doing is yelling at you
then I'm going to yell back at him but
now he's saying okay let's have a
reasonable conversation great I love it
I love reasonable conversations is great
it was refreshing and uh what were we
talking about you buying up buying up
housing yes so Charlie when he was on
said Hey listen you know I think that
there should be a cap though I forget if
he said 10 billion or 100 billion in
assets if you have less than that you
should be still be able to do real
estate as an investment even if it's
residential but above that it gets to
okay that's good no problem we can have
a debate about that we can figure out is
the right number 10 100 12 five no
problem you could put in reasonable
limitations but but we got to get them
to stop buying the homes so when kamla
Harris says oh we'll stop them from
buying homes in bulk I'm like okay
there's the loophole and so they're
going to use that loophole and besides
which it's not going to pass Wall Street
owns the government so there's no way
corporate Republicans and Democrats
which are about 98% of politicians are
going to limit private equity and and so
when do we ever get a little bit of
change when Democrats are in charge they
do 5 to 15% of their agenda and that's
not because they're warmhearted it's a
release
valve right oh see under Obama we got
about 5% change
and what was that that was Obamacare
right that was most of the change that
we got and what's the greatest part of
Obamacare and now I a lot of rightwing
also agree almost all of right-wing
agree about this portion which is they
got rid of the bias against pre-existing
conditions why did they do that
particularly because the country was
about to get in a rage we all
have pre-existing conditions If you deny
me when I'm sick what the the
point of insurance right and the anger
had gotten to a nuclear level so they
like release Val get rid of pre-existing
conditions let's go back to just milking
them regularly and oh by the way put in
a mandate so that they have to buy it
from us right do you know who originally
came up with
Obamacare the Heritage Foundation it was
their proposal Romney did it in
Massachusetts it was called Romney care
so I think this is a super important
election but I've earned the credibility
to be able to say that because in 2012 I
said this is a largely unimportant
election Mitt Romney and Barack Obama's
policies on economic issues are near
identical
Obamacare was literally Romney care
right now the left says oh the Heritage
Foundation it's so dangerous project
2025 well brother they're the ones who
wrote Obamacare and and you say that's
the greatest change in the world right
so the that's why the Democrats yeah
I'll take the 10% change overall I think
Biden did about 15% Obama did 5% but
they're going to they'll also March you
backwards by deregulating like Clinton
did and Obama did the bank bail out like
Obama did but 10% is better than 0% but
it's not to help you it's to release
valve so the system keeps going is it
possible to steal man the case that
uh that not all politicians are
corporatist or or
maybe how would you approach that for
example this podcast has a bunch of
sponsors and I give zero
about what they think about what
I'm saying like they have zero control
over me um maybe you could say that's
not that's because it's not a lot of
money or maybe maybe I'm a unique person
or something like this but um I just
think it's possible to have and I would
like to believe a lot of politicians in
this way that they have ideas and while
they take money they kind of uh see it
as a game that you know you accept the
money kind of go to certain
parties hug people and so on but it
doesn't actually fundamentally comp
compromise U your integrity on issues
you actually care about I can steal man
almost anything I could steal man Trump
I can steal man conservatives easily
right uh corporate politicians is a hard
one so first um it's not all politicians
we could start out nice and easy Tom
Massie uh now Holly and Gates taking not
taking corporate pack money uh Bernie
the squad they don't take corpor pack
money you could disagree on either end
of those uh folks on social issues but
generally they are a thousand times less
corrupt they're more honest uh and part
of the reason you might hate this squad
is because they're so honest they tell
you their real opinion on social issues
that you really disagree with a lot of
the corporate politicians won't do that
because they're trying to get as many
votes as possible so they can fate their
donors uh when they get into office and
do all their favors for them okay but
you see I'm already falling apart on the
steel maning of corporate politicians
let's like zoom in on that so if you
take corporate pack money you're that's
it you're you're corrupted like can you
imagine yourself say you're a politician
you're a
president
uh you're a human being you're a person
with Integrity you're a person who
thinks about the world you're saying if
I was a corporate pack and I give you a
billion dollars you still you You' be I
could tell you anything so Lex
everything is a spectrum humanity is a
spectrum so can you find outliers who
could take corporate pack money and
still be principled enough to resist its
lure yeah uh and and I would hope that I
would be a person like that but I
wouldn't take or pack money but if you
forc me to uh I think I would still stay
principled and do it could you find 10
20 other people in the country yeah but
on average that is not what will happen
what will happen is they will take the
money and do exactly as they are told
see I think most people have integrity
okay okay hold so what I'm more worried
about is when you take corporate pack
money it's not that you are immediately
sold is overtime over time that's true
so yeah I get it um but I wonder if if
the Integrity that I think most people
have can withstand the gradual slippery
slope of
uh uh of the effect of corporate
money which if if what I'm saying is
true that most people have integrity one
of the way to solve the effect of
corporate money is term limits because
it takes time to corrupt people you
can't buy them immediately and then the
term limits can uh you for the
listener Jen is uh shaking his head okay
yeah no so look you're right that over
time it gets way worse and as we talked
about earlier Biden's a great example of
that comes in anti-corruption winds up
being totally Pro corruption by the end
um and but he was also here for almost
all of it as we started in a world that
was not run by money in politics and is
now completely run by money in politics
so uh does it get worse overtime Cinema
Christen Cinema uh Arizona is a great
example that comes in as a progressive
doesn't want to take pack money uh cares
about the average person Etc uh over
time she becomes the biggest corporatist
in the Senate uh and a total disaster uh
but if you say that the majority of uh
politicians have in I don't know if this
is what you're saying
majority of politicians have
integrity um no let's start at the
majority of of human beings human and I
think that politicians are
not they are not a special group of like
sociopaths they are they lean a little
bit towards that direction but they're
not like only sociopaths going to
politics it's like you have to have some
sociopathic qualities I think to go into
politics but but is they're not
completely sociate about I think they do
have integrity cuz
sometimes for very selfish reasons it's
not all about money even for a selfish
person for a narcissist it's it's also
about being recognized for having had
positive impact on the world yeah I I
get it but all right so let's break it
down so first uh human beings then we'll
get to politicians do human beings have
integrity well it's a spectrum so some
people are have enormous Integrity some
people have no Integrity so there is not
one
type or character right so some people
have a ton of empathy for other human
beings and they literally feel it like I
feel the pain of someone else and I'm
not alone most people feel the pain of
someone else if you see a on video a
baby being hurt an overwhelming majority
of of human beings will go no right you
have empathy that's a natural feeling
that you have some people have no
empathy because they're on the extreme
end of the spectrum uh zial killers and
Donald Trump okay and so I'm I'm partly
joking but not really he has never
demonstrated any empathy that I have
ever seen for any other human being I'm
going to trigger some right-wingers
because they think every terrible thing
he said is out of context or joking or
not real or fake news but his chief of
staff didn't make it up he called uh
people who went into the military
suckers and losers why why did he say
that if just hang with me for a second
don't have your head explode okay I'm
not saying the Le I'm saying the right-
Wingers out there right so the reason is
because if you're like Trump and you
don't you literally don't feel the
empathy you think why the hell would I
go in the military get killed for
someone else what a sucker no I'm going
to stay out of the military I'm going to
stay alive I'm going to make a ton of
money and I'm going to look out for
myself and he assumes because everybody
does this you assume that everyone
thinks like you do but they don't so
Trump assumes everybody's as much of a
dirt bag as he is and because he doesn't
feel it he doesn't feel the empathy and
so he's like yeah you'd be an idiot a
sucker and a loser to go into the
military and have sacrifice for other
people so you see the Spectrum even if
you think Trump's not on that end and
you think I'm wrong about that you get
that there are people on that end right
so you have a spectrum of Integrity
empathy Etc that's what I would call
your Hardware you layer on top of that
your software okay the software is
cultural influences your parents media
your friends all these are cultural
influences so now when you're in certain
industries they value more Integrity so
religious leaders if you're doing it
right which is also very rare right but
if you're doing it right you're supposed
to have empathy for the poor the needy
the whole flock right so that profession
is incentivizing you towards empathy and
integ
okay and even then a giant amount of
people abuse it right but okay good in
politics it creates incentives for the
opposite no integrity and that software
to your point over time gets stronger
and stronger and stronger until it takes
over now you might have someone with a
lot of Integrity like Tom Massie right
uh republican from
Kentucky and you whether I agree with
him or disagree with him policy I get
that the brother is actually doing it
based on principles and there isn't any
amount of money you can give Tom Massie
for him to change his principles why
he's on the principled end of the
spectrum as a human being right so is
Bernie they're on the same part of that
that Spectrum right but for most people
the great majority of the spectrum if
you overload them with software that
incentivizes them to not have integrity
they will succumb and now let's switch
to politicians in particular why why do
I think that they're on average far more
likely to be on the sociopathic part of
the
spectrum because of the incentives and
disincentives so this changes every
Congressional cycle and when just
Democrats were winning a lot it got all
the way down to
87.5% but on average for Congressional
elections the person with more money
wins 95% of the time it doesn't matter
if they're a liberal or conservative
republican or democrat or any ideology
they have
95% okay so now let's say you got the 5%
that went in uh that are not hooked on
the money well they're going to get a
primary challenge then they're going to
get a general election Challenge and 95%
of the time the one with more money wins
So eventually this system Cycles through
until only the cor almost only the
corrupt are left wait hold on a second
is that is that real 95% so if you have
more
money 95% of the time you win huh
yes I'd like to believe that's less the
case for for example for higher you get
yes that's true you're right so you know
why so the presidential race is
Ironically in some ways the least
corrupt so let's dive into why if you're
running a local race anywhere in the
country you're going to get almost no
press conference meaning a congressional
race right if you're running a senate
race in the middle of Montana
you're going to get almost no media
coverage so that's where your money in
politics has the most effect because
then you could just buy the airwaves you
outspend the other guy you get all the
ads plus you get the friendly media
coverage because you just bought a
couple of million dollars of ads in the
middle of monana so the local news loves
you the TV stations the radio stations
the papers so some of the papers are
principal they might say oh no but
overall they're not calling you a
radical they're not calling you anything
and you're buying those races but when
you get to the presidential race that's
much harder because presidential race
you have earned media free media that
overwhelms paid media perfect example is
2016 Hillary Clinton out raises Trump by
about two to one but she loses anyway
why because Trump got almost twice as
much earned media as she did and the
earned media is better it's inside the
content right it is definitely better so
in a presidential election as long as
you got past the primary
you could actually win with not that
much money and and that's part of the
reason why I have hope Lex because all
you got to do is get past a Republican
or Democratic primary and now that's
very very very difficult but Trump did
it right now he took it in the wrong
direction but he did get leave a
blueprint for how to do it and so once
you get to the general election you're
off to the race you could do any goddamn
thing you like okay you could be super
popular you don't have to give a
about the donors you can get into office
you could bully your own party and the
other party into doing what you want and
you can get everything done you could
even get money out of politics so don't
lose hope I mean we even started
Operation HOPE at tyt and our first
project was to knock Biden out and
everybody said you guys are nuts that's
totally impossible and we knocked Biden
out right did we do it alone of course
not we were a small part of it right but
we laid the groundwork for Hope and we
laid the groundwork for when he flopped
in the debate
people had already been told remember
he's bad he's old he's not right and the
debate proved it if we hadn't done that
groundwork and not just young TKS
obviously but Axel rod and Carville and
Nate silver and Ezra Klein Etc
Charlamagne the god John Stewart all
these people helped a lot so that when
the debate happened it confirmed the
idea that out there that he was too old
and couldn't do it so my point is Hope
is you if you lose hope you're done for
then they're definitely going to win
right hope is the most dangerous thing
in the world for the elites so whether
you're right-wing or left wing I need
you to have hope and I need you to
understand it's not misplaced we just
got to get past the primary and we're
going to turn this whole thing around
see you basically a presidential
candidate who's a populist who
uh in part runs on getting money out of
politics okay well then let's talk about
Donald Trump mhm so to me me the two
biggest criticisms of trump is
the the fake elector scheme out of that
whole 20120 election the fake elector
scheme is thing that really bothers me
and then the second thing across a
larger time scale is the um the
counterproductive division that he has
created in uh let's say our public
discourse what are your top five
criticisms on Trump okay so number one
it I have the same exact thing as you
the fake elector scheme is unacceptable
totally dis disqualifying so the fake
elector scheme was a literal coup
attempt so he doesn't win the election
for folks who don't know I I need to
explain why it's a coup attempt because
you just throw out words and then people
get triggered by the words and then they
go into their separate Corners right so
the January 6 riers they were not going
to keep the building that was not a coup
attemp it's not like oh the Maga guy
have the building I guess they win right
no that was never going to happen so
what was the point of the January 6th
Riot it was to delay the proceedings why
did it matter that they were going to
delay the proceedings because if you
can't certify the election they wanted
General confusion and Chaos so that the
republicans in Congress could say well
we don't know who wants so we're going
to have to kick it back to the states in
the states they had the fake electors
ready remember the fake electors are not
Trump's electors there's both candidates
have a slate of electors Biden's
electors and Trump's electors they go to
the Trump electors first in this plan
and the half the Trump electors go no
I'm not going to pretend Trump won the
election when he didn't win the election
so they're like now we got to come
up with fake electors okay so they
enlist these Republicans who go yeah
I'll pretend Trump won right and so they
sign a piece of paper that's fraud and
that's why a lot of them are now being
prosecuted in the different
states and so the idea as the Republican
legislator legislators then go we're
sending these new electors in and we
think Trump won Arizona and Georgia and
Wisconsin right that was the idea that
was the plan and then you come back to
the house at that point when there are
two different sets of electors the rule
constitutional rule is the house decides
but the house decides not on a majority
because the Democrats had the majority
at the time they decide on a majority of
the States they vote by state and the
Republicans had the majority of the
states so in that way you steal the
election even though Trump didn't win
you install him back in as president
that is a frontal assault on democracy
and I loathe it and then Trump on top
just blabbers out well sometimes you
have if there's massive fraud in an
election in other words I think I won I
don't even think that I'm just saying
that I won right he says you can
terminate any rule regulation or article
even in the Constitution no brother you
cannot terminate the Constitution
because you'd like to do a fake elector
scheme and do a coup against America
you okay so I'm never going to
allow this W to be tyon to go back into
the White House and endanger our uh
system and so you want to endanger the
corrupt system I'm the guy okay let's go
get that corrupt system and tear it down
if you want to endanger the real system
democracy capitalism
the Constitution then I'm your biggest
enemy so I'm never going to take that
risk and you see it every time he goes
to talk to a dictator look guys I'm
asking you to be principled right I ask
the left of that and we drive away some
of our audience when we do that so we
got the balls to do that to our to our
own side so for the rightwing be honest
if it was Joe Biden or Barack Obama or
KLA Harris that went and wrote quote
unquote Love Letters to communist
dictator who runs concentration camps
you would say communist we knew it look
at that and Trump literally says about
Kim Jong-un we wrote Love Letters to one
another I fell we fell in love if a
Democrat said that they'd be politically
decapitated right they they their career
would be instantly over right but Trump
whenever xiangping Vladimir Putin I'm
not don't get into Russia Russia Russia
but it's just that he's a strong man
right uh uh Kim Jong-un or any uh Victor
Orban duterte in in the Philippines
anytime it's a strong man that says
screw our constitution screw our rules I
want Total loyalty to one person Trump
loves them he loves him he said once
he's like oh it's great you go to North
Korea or China and when the uh leader
walks in everybody applauds and
everybody listens to what he says that's
how it should be here no brother that's
not how should be here you hate
democracy you want to be the sole guy in
charge as a populist you should loathe
Donald Trump I agree on the fake elector
scheme Can you steal man and maybe
educate me on um there's a book rigged
that I started
reading is there any degree to which the
election was rigged or elections in
general are rigged so I think the book
rigged the main case they make is not
that there's some uh Shady fake uh it's
it's more the impact of mainstream media
and the impact of big Tech so rigged is
another one of those words that triggers
people and is il defined right so let's
begin to Define it so the worst case of
rigged
is we actually changed the votes right
so a lot of trump people think that
that's what happened nonsense that
didn't happen at all okay so then you
move and by the way some on the left
thought the votes were changed in the
2016 primary and it was literally rigged
against Bernie no that did not happen
okay that is a massive crime and is very
risky and is relatively easy to get
caught people who are in power are not
interested in getting caught they're not
interested in going to jail Etc it is a
very extreme thing could it happen yes
it could happen have I seen any evidence
of it happening in my lifetime not
really given how much people hate this
you probably just need to find evidence
of one time like one th one vote being
changed where you can trace them saying
something in some room somewhere that
would just explode just that evidence
just doesn't seem to be there and by the
way for the right-wing who say verify
the vote goddamn right verify the vote
right so you want to do have different
proposals like paper ballots recounts
hand recounts which by the way you had
not the paper ballots but the three
recounts and a hand recount in Georgia
in so many of these swing states he lost
he lost he lost there was no significant
voter fraud now SE second thing in terms
of uh of rigging is voter fraud so how
and the right-wing believes oh my God
it's voter fraud everywhere not remotely
true herish foundation does a study they
want to prove it so badly and it turns
out no matter how much they move the
numbers the final number they got was it
happens
0.00000000 0 6% of the time okay it
almost never happens they found like 31
instances over a decade or two decades
so it's what counts as voter fraud so a
lot of times these days it'll be
Republicans who do it because it'll be
and it's not nefarious it's a
knucklehead who goes and I heard they
they're having the undocumented the
illegals vote so I voted for me and my
mom even though she's dead but that's
fair they're doing it they're like no
brother that's not fair that's not how
it works you're under arrest so what
about non-citizens voting so it's
Preposterous of course non-citizens
shouldn't vote and they don't vote but
there's not you don't have to prove
citizenship when you're voting right no
you do I mean it's so it depends on what
you mean by prove and when you vote
right so you're not allowed to vote as a
undocumented uh immigrant so that
happens upfront when you go to like
again it's a Hall of Mirrors like
there's so many different ways to create
mirages so the Republicans will say well
when you go to the voting booth they
don't make you show a
Passport yeah that's true but you showed
it earlier when you registered right and
so and we can get into voter ID laws
there's all sorts of things but we got
to we'll speed up the Spectrum right so
these things almost never happen voter
fraud happens but super rarely uh and
not enough to swing elections and by the
way sometimes if there is an issue
they'll redo an election there is
actually a process for that and it
happened in North Carolina because
Republicans did Vote or fraud in this
one District District okay and it wasn't
the candidate himself it was this
campaign person and they did ballot
harvesting and then but ballot
harvesting again it depends on what you
mean if you're just collecting ballots
that's okay he changed the ballots
that's not okay and so they had to redo
that election so um now the real place
where it gets rigged is before elections
and there's two main ways that things
get rigged one
is almost
exclusively no that's not fair I was
going to say Republicans but Democrats
do it too in a different way so
Republicans would come in like Brian
Camp is the king of this in Georgia so
he was against Trump doing it exp poost
facto he's like no you idiot we don't
cheat after the election we cheat before
the election okay so they'll go well I
mean you got to clear out the voter rols
every once in a while and that's true
because people die people move and you
got to clean out the voter rols so then
they come in and they go we will clean
them out mainly in Black areas okay oh
look at that there goes a couple of
million uh black voters well some of
those I suppose are real voters but
they'll have to re-register and then
they'll find that out on Election Day
and oh well now sorry you couldn't vote
this time remember to re-register next
time and so do they go hey we're going
to take black people off the voter roles
no what they do is we're having more
issues in these districts right here's
another way they do it how many voting
boost do you have in the area so
primarily Republican areas will get tons
of the voting boost so you don't have to
wait in line you go in you vote you go
to work no problem you're in a black
area run in a in a Republican state all
of a sudden hey look that City well we
sent you four voting booths oh you got a
million people there well what are you
going to do I guess you got to wait in
line the whole day you can't go to work
etc so that's the way of I refuse to
believe it's the it's it's only the
Republicans that do that i I would say
so that's why I paused yeah yeah that
just seems too obvious to do by
both the Democrats are so weak Lex they
mainly don't do that but they do do the
third thing which is Jared mandry so
both Republicans and Democrats also they
have favorite flavors of uh yeah of
messing with the vote okay yeah so Jerry
mandering is the best way to rig an
election that way the politicians pick
their voters instead of the voters
picking their politicians right so all
these districts are so heavily
gerrymandered that the almost can't lose
they'll push most of the voters into one
District most of the voters in another
District because they don't want
competition right
so they then you're screwed they the the
vote isn't rigged but the district is
rigged so that the incumbent wins no
matter almost no matter what right so
that's why we've gotten so polarized
because the Jerry Mandarin creates like
90% % of seats that are safe so they
don't have to compromise they don't have
to get to a middle they could just be
extreme on either side because they
already locked it up okay so that's the
number one way to rig an election now
finally the last part of is maybe the
most important maybe even more important
than Jarry Manner and that's the media
so it just happened to RFK Jr it
happened to Bernie in 2015 it happens to
any Outsider right or left the media if
you're an outsider will say well radic
number one they don't platform you right
so they're not going to have you on to
begin with nobody's even going to find
out about you if nobody finds out about
you you're done for right so Bernie
broke through that
because he was so popular and the
rallies were so huge that he they local
news couldn't help but cover him Jesus
Christ what are all these people doing
in the middle of the city right and he
slowly broke through that but do you
know that in 2015 as he's doing this
miraculous run against Hillary Clint
nobody thinks he has a chance and here
comes Bernie and he's almost at 48% this
is he had 7 Seconds of coverage on ABC
that year they just will not put you on
that is the number one way they rig an
election Bobby Kennedy Jr sitting at 20%
in a primary no Town Hall 20% is a giant
number right and you're not going to do
a town hall you're not going to do a
debate 12% in the general election a
giant number in a general election no
Town Hall no debate if no one finds out
about you they don't know to vote for
you right if they don't find out your
policies corporate media rigs elections
more than anything else in the world now
this is something you've been a bit
controversial about but the general sort
of standard belief is that there's a
left leaning bias in the mainstream
media
because as I think studies show a large
majority of journalists are left leaning
and then uh that there's bias in big
Tech employees of uh big tech companies
from search engines to social media are
left leaning and there that's a huge
majority is left leaning so the the
conventional wisdom is that there is a
bias towards the left yeah do you think
first of all I think you've argued that
that's not true that there's a bias uh
in the other direction but whether
there's a bias or not do you think that
how big of an impact that has on the
result of the election
okay so let's break that down uh Tech
and media are totally different so let's
do media first and we'll do Tech so on
uh mainstream media corporate media and
I I actually think that right-wing media
like Fox News is part of corporate media
they just play good cop bad cop and so
in in that realm the bias is not right
or left except on social issues okay so
and that's where that image comes from
on social issues yes the media is
generally on the left and rightwing
sorry but like this started in the 1960s
and the rightwing got super mad at
mainstream media saying that black
people were equal to white people that's
not the case anymore okay rightwing calm
down I'm not calling you all racist but
in the 1960s were there racism was there
racism of course of course it wouldn't
even let black kids into the schools
right there was massive segregation in
the South but a lot in the north as well
and at that point the mainstream media
says well I mean they are citizens they
should have equal rights
and the rightwing goes
bias okay yeah I mean you're kind of
right it is a bias it is a bias towards
equality in that case uh but it that is
perceived as on the left now fast
forward to today you don't have that on
the racial issues as obviously as much
as you had it back then but on gay
marriage that existed for a long time
where the media is like well they kind
of should have the same rights as stray
people right and the rightwing went bias
right so okay you're kind of right about
that but at the same time I would
argue their position is correct right so
but can they go too far of course they
can go too far okay now but that's not
the main deal guys that's to distract
you the main deal is economic issues and
again we say it ahead of time and you
can see if we're right or wrong right so
we will tell folks when we get to an
economic bill you will see all of a
sudden the guys who theoretically
disagree Fox News and Ms NBC Clos ranks
and you just saw it happen with price
scouching that issue of price scouching
all of a sudden there's a lot of MSNBC
hosts CNN host Washington Post rights in
opet against it and everybody panics is
like no no no no no no no no you can't
control anything a corporation does this
is wrong this is wrong right oh what
happened I thought you guys were hated
each other all of a sudden you totally
agree fascinating okay same thing
happened on increasing wages when they
were talking about increasing the
minimum wage Stephanie rule giant screed
against it on MSNBC
all of a sudden Fox News at MSNBC agree
right do not touch beloved corporations
so now that gets us to our real bias
it's not left or right it's Pro
corporate for all the reasons we talked
about before corporate media corporate
politicians so if you don't believe me
today whether you're on the right or the
left watch next time an economic issue
where do they fall how do they react
when anytime it's a corporate uh issue
where does the media go right so that's
the real bias of the media and so since
the real bias of the media is pro
corporations that is not a left-wing
position that is considered more of a
right-wing position I even think that's
a misnomer because to be fair to
right-wing voters they're not pro
corporations they're not pro big
business they're not pro corruption but
the Republican politicians are so it
gets framed as a right-wing issue right
so if you think that they that the
corporate media is too populist you just
don't get it they AR they are aren't
they hate populism so now when you turn
to
Tech so Tech's a complicated one because
yeah people write the code if they're
left-wingers they're going to have
certain assumptions and they're they
might write that into the codes or the
rules and
so but they're also generally speaking
wealthy they're usually white they're
usually male and those biases also get
go in and there's a lot of people on the
left who object to that bias right okay
but that's a fair and interesting
conversation and one we have to be
careful of and one we could find a
hopefully find a middle ground on but
that's not the major problem the major
reason why big Tech gets attacked is
because they are competitors of who
social media competes with mainstream
media so mainstream media has been
attacking big Tech from day one
pretending that it's a they're really
concerned yeah they're really concerned
because
that's their competition and they're
getting their ass handed to him so I did
a story on The Young Turks about CNN
article about all the dangers of social
media I'm like guys this is written by
their advertising Department okay and
they advert and they in fact they go to
the advertisers and they find a rando
video on YouTube or Facebook right out
of billions of videos and they're like
look at your ad is on this video do you
denounce and reject every big Tech
company and every member of social media
and like advertis is like yeah I do
right meanwhile they're doing mil Island
on
TV okay I didn't know that out there's
literally a show they came out recently
where it's moms and their sons and they
each other oh wow okay they don't
they don't have sex with their mom they
have sex with a different mom or they
date but then the shows oh then they Go
off into a corner Etc right I'm like
you're doing this kind of like the worst
degrading ridiculous immoral programming
and then you found a video on YouTube
that has a problem get the out of
here you're just trying to kneecap your
competition let's talk about the The
Saga of Joe Biden so over the past year
over the past few months can you just
rewind where where have you maybe tell
the story of uh Joe Biden as you see
from the election perspective
yeah so about a year ago I I I'm looking
at the polling and first of all I have
eyes right and ears so whenever I see
Biden I'm like this is a disaster and
then I go and talk to real people and
when I say real people I mean not in
politics that's not their job right
because people involved in politics for
media have a certain perspective and
it's colored by all the exchanges in
mainstream media social media Etc real
people aren't on Twitter having
political fights they're not watching
CNN religiously Etc whenever I was at a
barbecue you guys all Democrats and some
barbecues yeah uh what do you guys think
of Joe Biden like almost in unison too
old every real person said too old so I
look at what real people are saying
that's why I thought Trump was going to
win in 2016 I go in the middle of Ohio I
can't see a Hillary Clinton sign for
hundreds of miles right is Trump
paraphernalia everywhere right so that's
not end all Beall you could say it's
anecdotal but you begin to collect data
points right but then the real data
points are in polling okay so now I'm
looking at Biden
polling he's in the 30s no incoming in
the 30s has ever come back to win so I'm
like it's already over then all of a
sudden oh my God Trump takes a lead with
Latinos it's it's double over by the
later in the process Trump took the lead
with young voters I'm like this is the
most over elction in history a Democrat
cannot win if they're not winning young
voters that's impossible Trump's cutting
into his lead with black voters this
thing is
over right and I go tell people and
they're like you're crazy why do they
think I'm crazy because MSNBC is lying
to them 247 telling them that Joe Biden
uh created sliced bread and the wheel
and fire and by the and my favorite
talking point was he's a Dynamo behind
the
scenes yeah I'm like okay let me get
this right it's like an SNL skit right
I'm like so behind the scenes he like
all right Sally get me the memo on that
and we're okay we're going to do this
and I'm in command of the material then
he goes in front of the
camera anyways why would any politician
do that why why would they be terrible
in front of the camera and great off
camera doesn't make any sense but once
you get people enough propaganda and Ms
NBC created blue Maga right they'll
believe anything so they believe that
Biden was Dynamic and young and that he
was the best possible candidate to beat
Donald Trump when in reality he was
about the only Democrat who couldn't
beat Donald Trump so number one I don't
co-sign on a I don't care which
side you're on number two as you heard
earlier I can't have Trump winning it
endangers the country it endangers our
constitution Etc so I'm going to do
something about it and so I start
something called Operation HOPE on The
Young Turks and we asked the audience
what should we do right so there's
different projects in Operation Hope and
but the first project that pops up is
knock Biden out of the race okay and so
then I ask our paying members on tyt I
say guys you're going to vote and then
I'm going to do what you tell me to do
if you say no I like Biden or I think
Biden's the best candidate or even if he
isn't we're not going to be able to win
on this so don't do it right should I
enter the primary against Biden okay
7624 go enter right I'm a populist you
tell me to go you're my paying members
you're my boss I'm G to go okay so I
enter the primary now I'm not born in
the country so people are going to freak
out about that I'm a talk show host like
the establishment media despises me
right so I'm not going to get any air
time in fact we consider hiring the top
booking agent in New York we talked to
him and he says well you know I'm
actually in New York this week and he
says I'm going to go talk to those guys
and I'll come I'll come back to you and
he was really decent because normally
you know he charges a lot just take the
money right and go oh yeah yeah I'll get
you on but he was a wonderful guy he
said I talked to them you're banned so
don't don't do it like you're not you're
banned at CNN you're banned at MSNBC and
I think you're banned on Fox new but I'm
not sure okay so so long odds why do you
do it because if you think we're going
to crash into the iceberg you might as
well bum rush the captain's quars right
I'm lunging at the wheel so what
difference can I make well I can make a
difference by going on every show on
planet Earth and going he's too old he's
in in the 30s he has no chance of
winning no chance of winning I go on
Charlamagne show Breakfast Club right
Charlamagne agrees all of a sudden we're
having buzz and then people go oh
Charlemagne said he has no chance of
winning then Charlemagne's on The Daily
Show talks to John Stewart John Stewart
does a seg not this is not necessarily
causal but Buzz is building right so
then John Stewart does a segment if you
remember and people got super pissed at
him too old can't win and all that buzz
is building meanwhile unrelated to us
David axod and James carvo and I'm like
guys figure it out who does axar Rod
speak for the top advisor for Barack
Obama who is James Carville the top
adviser for the clintons this is the
clintons and the Obamas sending their
emissaries to say we can read a poll
he's going to lose change direction so
when the debate happens we laid the
groundwork if we hadn't laid the
groundwork debate would have been the
first time that blue Maga would have
thought oh maybe Biden can't win right
but since all of us said it and strange
bad fellows I LOE Nancy Pelosi but she
was was on our side I got a lot of
issues with Bill Maher he was on our
side right I got a lot of issues with
Axel rod and Carville and they were on
our side so the people who believed in
objective reality kind of independently
made a plan let's show people objective
reality and we did and we drove him out
and it it made all the difference so you
think he stepped down voluntarily or was
he forced out both so again it depends
on what you mean so was he forced out of
course he was was forced out you think
he just woke up he's like oh yeah you
know what screw my legacy I don't want
to be a two-term president I'll just
drop out for noes no we forced them out
of course we did right and when I say we
I had a tiny tiny tiny role the people
who had the major roles Nancy Pelosi
Barack Obama and all those folks but
even they were not the main uh driving
force the number one driving force were
the
donors what is the source of power of
Bernie or Massie the people right what
is the source of power for Biden the
donors the donors made Biden he is the
donor's candidate and the donors that's
why he told the donors nothing will
fundamentally change that it like you
can if you say
Lex no Jen I think you're too extreme
that Biden works for the donors 98% I
think he only works for them 80% or 55%
fine we could have that debate but you
can't argue that it isn't his source of
power and you can't argue it anymore
even if you were going to argue it
earlier because once the donors said
we're not giving you any more money he
didn't have any options he couldn't he
couldn't go on so but was he forced out
at like knife point or something no so
was it voluntary yeah ultimately if
Biden decided to stay in there was
nothing we could do about it and so he
had to voluntarily make that decision
but he voluntarily made it because he
had no choice left yeah I wish he
stepped down voluntarily from a place of
strength so I think I think presidents I
think politicians in general especially
at the highest levels want Legacy and to
me at least one of the greatest things
you could do is to walk away from at the
top I mean George Washington so walk
away from power is I think universally
respected especially if you got a good
speech to go with it and you you do it
really well not in some kind of cynical
or uh calculator or some kind of uh
transactional way but just like as a
great leader
and maybe be a little bit even more
dramatic than you need to be in doing it
yeah I thought I thought that would be a
beautiful moment and then
launch a some kind of democratic process
for
um electing a different option not only
did I agree with you
100% I reached one of the his top
advisors one of the guys you see in the
press all the time as in his in his
inner circle I never said that before
because we were in the middle of it and
I'm never going to betray anyone's
confidence and I'll never say who's who
it was okay but he was gracious enough
to to meet with me as I was about to
enter the primary and look it's smart
too because get information intelligence
Etc is this guy going to be trouble or
not trouble right but at least he took
the meeting and the case I made is
exactly the one you just said Lex I said
if he drops this about 10 months ago I
said if he drops out
now they built statues of him right the
Democrats if you're a right-winger you
hate him I get it but the Democrats
would have said he beat Trump and
protected democracy in 2020 and he steps
down graciously now to make sure we beat
Trump again in
2024 and he lets go of power voluntarily
you're he's going to be a hero an
absolute hero but if he
doesn't you're going to force all of us
to kick the living crap out of him and
tell everybody he's an egomaniac which
he is and he's doing this for two so
that he could be if you don't know
Washington in that bubble if you're a
one-term president you're a loser if
you're a two-term president you have a
legacy in your historic he's running for
one reason one reason only my
legacy I will be a two-term president I
will be considered historic I'm like
brother now you're going to be
considered a villain the villain of The
Story You're handing it right back to
Trump you're not going to win and you
know look at the numbers any Pol
political professional knows you're not
going to win so you have hero or villain
and you get to choose but if you think
you're going to be a hero and be Trump
that is not a choice you have that is
not going to happen and they didn't
believe us but by the end they did were
you troubled by the um how KL Harris was
selected after he stepped down yes and
no
so I argued for an open convention and
so if Biden had stepped down when we
were trying to get people into the
primary knock them out then it would
that would have been a perfect solution
then all the governors could go in walls
Basher Whitmer KLA Harris goes in
obviously they have a real primary at
that point me and later Dean Phillips
came in me Dean and I mean Maran
wouldn't drop out me and Dean would
definitely drop out because our whole
point was get other people in the race
make sure we win right so okay then you
would have had a great primary it would
have been the right way to do it both
morally you know constitutionally Etc
but also as a matter of politics because
you would have gotten a lot of coverage
for your young exciting candidates uh
and you would have legitimized the idea
of that you're protecting democracy okay
so that didn't happen because of Biden
it is what it is so now when Biden drops
out at least do a vesage of democracy go
to the convention and do what it's
designed to do which is pick a candidate
ezar Klein made a great case for this in
the New York Times podcast that he did
that made a huge difference and he was
great for doing that so I believe in an
open convention but I know Democrats
that love to anoint because they don't
trust the people so they think the
elites are uh Geniuses don't worry we'll
pick the right candidate yeah I remember
when you picked Hillary Clinton had that
work out right and I remember when you
said Joe Biden was the right candidate
in 2024 how'd that work out do not
anoint right so but in the end they
didn't so what happened was Biden does
the first announcement he either forgot
or on purpose didn't put kamla Harris in
there so there's all this Kumbaya now n
they don't like each other okay and
Biden's been screwing her over the
entire she's time she's been vice
president so he doesn't put her in the
original statement and I'm like whoa I
do a live video IM media I'm like KL
Harris is not in the statement right in
the middle of my video they put out a
second one going okay okay fine KLA
Harris right because that's too much for
the president not to end you think it
was like really like somebody like
stormed into the room and said you Absol
must I I don't know I wasn't there but
probably right or they plan I don't know
but the bottom line is it was glaring
that he didn't put her in the first
letter okay so he had to put her in the
second one fine no problem but Obama
Pelosi and Sh Schumer did not endorse
KLA Harris that's huge normally the
Democrats would all endorse her and
would all say she's anointed shut up
everybody and then MSNBC would scream
shut up shut up she's ano Ed right but
they didn't do that so then KLA Harris
had to win over the delegates and I
thought she would win them over in the
convention but she locked them up in two
days and she I know because I know
delegates CU I ran and the delegates are
calling me saying she's on she's getting
on a zoom right now with us right she
went to all the states and worked her
ass off and locked up enough delegates
to get the to get the nomination in two
days yeah but come on it's Biden
endorsed of course so why is that and of
course why not
say uh sort of layout walls and Shapiro
and KLA Harris and the options to say
let's like at least a facade of
democracy of a democratic process
there's what should happen and what is
likely to happen so should Biden not
have endorsed yeah of course I I think
Biden should have done the same thing as
Obama and Pelosi and not endorse and say
hey we'd love to have a process where we
figure out who the right nominee is and
at that point I'm really worried about
KLA Harris cuz she's doing word salads
non-stop right so I'm like don't make
the same mistake we did before and just
picked someone out of a hat test them
test them you get stronger candidates
when you test them the authoritarian
nature of the DNC drives me crazy they
don't believe in testing candidates they
don't believe in letting their own
voters decide and look when we were in
the primary they canceled the Florida
election and then and they took me Dean
and MaryAnn off the ballot in North
Carolina and Tennessee I'm like guys if
you're going to make a case for
democracy in the general election and
you cancel elections in the primaries do
you not get how ridiculous you look how
hypocritical you look right so I didn't
want them to Biden to endorse anyone but
I'm shocked that they didn't all endorse
her because normally what happens is
they all endorse so it bottom line Lex
is did she like earn it in a perfect
system not even close right but did she
earn it enough in this imperfect way
where at least she showed some degree of
competence that assuaged my concerns yes
so because a normal Democrat would
bungle that they wouldn't go talk like
Hillary Clinton wouldn't have talked to
the delegates she would assume that
she's the queen and that they would all
bow their heads she would you know so
the fact that she did Elementary
politics correct for Democrats that's
like a big win it just really frustrated
me because
um it it smelled of the same thing of
over Bernie in 2015 16 and RFK
and just the anointing aspect now they
seem to have gotten lucky in the
situation that it's very possible that K
Harris would have been selected through
a democratic process but I have to say
listening to the species of the DNC
walls was amazing uh Shapiro was really
strong and K actually was much better as
compared to her as a candidate
previously but personally don't think
she would have been the result of a
democratic process so you don't often
give your opinions but when you give the
opinions I actually agree 90 like a huge
percentage of the time in this
conversation so I fought for Shapiro in
the primary in when she was trying to
pick for a VP because I thought there's
no way she's going to pick walls he's
way too not just Progressive but more
importantly populist right so I didn't
think she'd go in that direction and
shapo actually did a bunch of populous
things in Pennsylvania that's part of
the reason why he's so popular and in
Pennsylvania he looks like a smooth
talking politician but his actions are
pretty good and so Shapiro was great
walls was great the Obamas are legendary
even Clinton at his Advanced age makes
terrific points in his speech where you
go well that one's hard to argue with
right and so they all I'm shocked at the
competence at the DNC shocked at it but
of all those liks so you can give a good
speech and the Obama give a mean speech
but I saw Obama as president you know he
didn't deliver on that so but the one
guy that stood out is wallz and the
reason is cuz he's a real person yeah
real person populist we all got to work
towards picking the most genuine
candidates so here uh on the right-wing
side for example I would prefer a
marjerie Taylor green to a Mitch
McConnell any day Margie Taylor green is
genuine she I she might be genuinely
nuts I don't agree with her she might be
even more right-wing than others but I
believe that she means it and I'll take
that any day over a fraud corporatist
like Mitch McConnell who's just going to
do what a donors command of him Etc I
got to ask you because I also love
Bernie still got it I love Bernie I
always have um I enjoyed his I think he
might still do it but I enjoyed his
conversations with Tom Harman he's a
genuine One Like Bernie even if disagree
with him that's a genuine human being
yep so just talk about that does it
trouble you that he's been over
in 2015 16 and again 2020 he seems to be
and why does he keep like forgiving
people yeah so I I love Bernie for the
same reason you're saying it because
he's a real person he's a populist he
means it and that is so rare in politics
he's I feel like I'm diogenes and I went
looking for the one honest man and found
it in Bernie and so I did a video in
2013 saying Bernie Sanders can beat
Hillary Clinton in a primary in
2013 that video exists because why did I
think that I didn't say it of any of the
corporate politicians and the guys who
were supposed to challenge her and stuff
because populist and honest right and
the country's dying for an honest
populist dying for it right so love the
brother now that doesn't mean that he's
right on strategy and he drives crazy on
strategy so two elements of that number
one in 2016 and in 2020 for God's sake
attack your opponent you said something
about Trump that I disagree with uh
where I'm defending Trump okay you don't
like what he did to the public discourse
no I don't mind it I would and I'll tell
you why yeah because at least he got a
little bit past the fakeness like he's a
con man and he's a fraud overall and he
doesn't does everything for his own
interest but at least he doesn't speak
like a bullshitting politician right and
he's not wrong that you have to bully
your own party toass enough power to get
things done and he showed that that's
possible so the problem with the
Democrats is civility so my whole life
they're like oh no no no don't say
anything Let's Lose with civility right
so for example in debates uh you know
whether it's on TV online or whatever uh
Democrats or people on the left are
always saying I'm
offended I never get offended no after
I'm done you're going to be offended
okay fight back fighting back wins and
we couldn't get Bernie to fight back in
2020 he he was one state away he won the
first three states he crushed in Nevada
all we needed was South Carolina but in
order to get South Carolina we all knew
everybody on his campaign everyone who's
in Progressive media we all knew you've
got to attack Biden if you don't they're
just going to Tsunami you you the
corporate Medias and the corporate
politicians are going to run rough shot
over you you have to make the case
against them and so two times Bernie
flinched one in 2016 in the Brooklyn
debate they asked did the money that
Hillary Clinton taking from the banks
affect her votes and he said no of
course it affected her votes of course
it did you have to say yes and you have
to show it and prove it the bankruptcy
bill when she was first lady she was
totally in favor of the American people
and against the bankruptcy bill because
it uh has the banks you can't discharge
any debts that the credit you know
credit card debt and Bank debt Etc it's
an awful bill it's the one of the most
corpor bills she was on the right side
as a first lady she becomes a senator
takes Bank her money and all of a sudden
she flips over to the banker side say it
Bernie for God's sake say it right then
in one of the debates in 2020 his team
prepares attacks against Biden they're
not personal they're not like I you can
sense by now if I'm in a political race
my objective is rip the other guys face
off right yeah politically rhetorically
never physically right and so but I
would get it to a point where they'd
think I don't know if I'm going to vote
for Jen but I know I'm not voting for
The Other Guy okay so you got to do that
if you want to win so they prepare this
he says I'm going to do it he goes out
on the podium and doesn't do it because
he can't he's too damn nice he just
can't attack the other guy now that's
problem number one in strategy problem
number two is something you alluded to
so Biden gets in office Bernie thinks
they're friends they're not friends
Biden's just using him so he uses him to
get the credibility and then he
eviscerates 85% of the progressive
proposals that Bernie put forward Biden
throws away $15 minimum wage that was
Bernie signature issue doesn't even
propose the public option dumps paid
family for no reason I can go on and on
and Bernie co-signs on it because he
thinks he's in an alliance he thinks
Biden's on his side and he thinks we're
going to get things done and to be fair
to Bernie like I said earlier Obama got
only 5% of his agenda passed and Biden
got
15% okay so you're right Bernie you got
three times more than under Obama but
you're wrong that is not fundamental
change and without fundamental change
we're
screwed uh let me ask you about another
impressive speech
AOC uh is it possible that she's the
future of the party future president no
uh so AOC in my opinion lost her way and
so in which way so it's tough talk about
these things because people take it so
personally right and and that's why
you'll see very few politicians on our
shows because we give super tough
interviews and the words on in the
street right like don't go Young Turks
they'll they'll ask you super hard
questions right so there only a couple
do it like Rana does it he's Brave and
we'll get into shouting matches
sometimes in the middle of bills and
stuff but at least he's there to defend
his position I respect him for Tim Ryan
a little bit more of a conservative
Democrat when he was in the house he
would take take on any debate Etc so
there's a couple of good guys that do it
but generally they don't so when this
relates to AOC because when AOC is
running we do 34 videos on her we get
her millions of
views we found ad just Democrats and
andn now launched it on the show our
audience Ryan Grim documents it in one
of his books uh our audience raises $2.5
million for those Progressive candidates
overall uh and at that point AOC and all
those Rashid Etc they're all d to come
on a Young Turks makes sense I would too
of course it's not because it's The
Young Turks any media outlet and most
media Outlets almost all the media
Outlets reject them we cover AOC more
than all the other press combined right
and she wins for a number of reasons
that's one of the reasons but there's
many others and she did a terrific job
herself um she then takes shont and
Corbin who were the shot was ah head of
just Democrats and Corbin was
communications director for just
Democrats then shott made one of the
most brilliant political decisions in
arguably in American history he said he
called me and he said Jen I'm going to
go from head adjust Democrats to running
aoc's campaign and I'm like well the
other candidates are going to get pissed
and you're staking the entire Enterprise
on one candidate and I'm like short I'm
not in it I'm doing the media arm you're
you're in the in the trenches you're the
guy making the decisions so I'm going to
trust whatever you say you sure and he
said yeah I'm sure so him and Corbin go
over to aoc's campaign AOC then wins
that miraculous win then she hires shott
to be her chief of staff and she hires
Corbin to be her communications director
within six months they're gone and once
they're gone AOC then goes on an
establishment path okay because why were
they gone oh they insulted one of her
colleagues yeah that colleague who's a
total corporatist and was selling out
one of our policy proposals if you don't
call out your own side you're never
going to get anything done but if you
call out your own side you become person
n grada and it is super
uncomfortable and we couldn't get them
to do things that were uncomfortable now
she's going to find that outrageous and
she's going to be very offended by that
and she's going to point to a bunch of
things she did that were uncomfortable
and to be fair to her she do she has
she's until that speech she was pretty
good on Palestine
when we desperately needed it she's
pretty good on a bunch of issues Cory
Bush did that campaign on evictions Etc
on the capital stest that was great
aoc's original sit in in Pelosi's office
that point we're all still on the same
team it's a spectacular success me
Corbin and shott are saying do it again
do it again like not don't abuse it like
don't be a clown and do it every other
day but like when it matters you need to
be able to challenge Pelosi right and T
in my opin opinion she just got to a
point where she got exhausted being
uncomfortable it's like it's really hard
the media hates you and they keep
pounding away and calling you a radical
and you're destroying the Democratic
party you're destroying Unity so whereas
if you go along all of a sudden you're a
queen and and now all of a sudden the
mainstream media is saying oh AOC she
could be the prog I mean there's some
degree to which you want to sometimes
buy your time and just like uh rest a
bit and I think from my perspective
maybe you can educate me she seems like
a legit uh
Progressive legit even populist
charismatic young like a lot of time to
develop the game of politics how to how
to play it well enough to avoid the
I guess it doesn't take
corporate pack money that's right no
she's still true on that um so as as far
as I just looking in the over for the
next few elections like who's going to
be running who's going to be who's going
to be a real player she just seems like
an OB like to me it seems like an
obvious person that's going to be in the
race so while I fight for the ideal I'm
very practical so for
example
in she wins uh and then one cycle later
after
2020 um there's these guys who wanted to
quote unquote Force the vote and it was
uh on the speakership of Nancy Pelosi
and they wanted to use it to get
Medicare for all I'm like guys forcing a
vote is a terrific
idea on the
speakership okay who's your alternative
oh we don't have an alternative already
giant red flag okay um what's the issue
you're looking to have them vote on
Medicare for all oh you don't know
politics so I love Medicare for all we
have to get Medicare for all but if you
if that's the first one you put up
without gaining any leverage you're
going to get slaughtered put up
something easy force a vote on $15
minimum wage or pick another one that's
easy paid family leave these are all
pulling great because if you force a
vote on that you can actually win and if
you win you gain leverage and then you
do the next one and the next one and
then you do Medicare for all not
gradualism that the corporate
Democrats do but actually strategically
practically building up power and
leverage and using it at the right times
so if I thought that's what AOC was
doing I would love it right so I don't
need her to force a vote on Medicare for
all I don't need her to go on some wild
tangents that don't make any sense and
is only going to diminish your
power but when they eviscerated all the
progressive proposals and build back
better how did that happen mansion and
Cinema used every ounce of Leverage they
had they said I'm just not going to vote
for it I don't care okay uh you know the
status quo is perfect for my donors so I
don't need you I vote no okay now take
out everything I want and Biden did
right progressives had to push back and
say here
is two to three proposals right not
everything not everything two to three
proposals they all pull over 70% they're
all no-brainers and they're all things
that Joe Biden promised we want those in
the bill otherwise we're voting no at
that point the media what would have
happened is the media would have
exploded and they would have said AOC
and the rest are the scum of the earth
they're ruining the Democratic party
we're not going to get the bill they're
the worst you have to withstand that if
you cannot withstand a nuclear blast for
mainstream media you're not the person
cuz you that's you have to go run that
obstacle for to get to change if they
had stood their ground they definitely
would have won on one to two of those
issues instead they went with a strategy
that was called it was literally called
trust Biden all right so uh big question
who wins uh who wins this election KLA
or Trump and what's kamla's path to
Victory and uh if you can steal man
what's Trump's path to victory yeah so
there's not enough information yet so
since I make a lot of predictions on air
and then brag about it unbearably
um yeah people are always they'll stop
me in the streets and they'll be like
predict this like predict my marriage
brother I don't know anything about your
marriage how could I possibly predict
something without having any information
so in the case of the uh this campaign
uh right now I got KLA Harris at 55%
chance of winning okay which is not bad
doesn't mean she's going to win by 55
because then that would be a 10-point
margin that's not going to happen right
but I say around 51 to 55 but it's
nowhere near over because of a lot of
things one uh the Democrats are still
seen as more establishment and and
people hate The Establishment uh
two if War breaks out in the Middle East
which is now
unfortunately bordering unlikely right
uh if that war breaks out all bets are
off do you mean a regional War yeah like
Iran Israel gets to be a real thing not
just a pin prick and a little bombing
here and an assassination there but no
we're going to war right if that happens
then all bets are off and no one has any
idea who's going to win okay and if
they're pretending that they know that's
ridiculous because it's so
unpredictable uh and then the third
bogey for her
is if she goes back to W Sal so that so
there's three phases of K har 's career
she's not necessarily any different in
terms of policy she's you can frame it
in a bad way you could frame it in a
good way you can say oh she's just
change seeing which way the wind is
blowing and then oh she's a tough cop
prosecutor oh and then she's doing
Justice Reform when you need people want
Justice Reform oh she's a a waffler
right or you could paint it as she's
pretty balanced right she prosecuted
serious criminals very harshly but then
on marijuana possession got into rehab
and you know what that's actually what
you should do right so I'm not talking
about policy so there you could have one
of those views about kamla Harris and I
get it I'm talking about strateg
stylistically so kamla Harris until the
second debate in the primaries in 2020
is a very competent politician who's in
line to be the next Obama right she's
killing it district attorney Attorney
General uh Senator um and then the first
debate if you remember she won she had
that great line about you know uh there
was a little girl on that bus that was
integrating the schools and that girl
was me and Biden being the knucklehead
that he is he's caught on tape
going you're like don't have that
reaction brother okay because she's
criticizing his segregation policy on
buses back in the 70s right so anyways
so she's doing terrific
and then after that debate until Biden
drops out is a disaster area for KLA
Harris's career in the primary she
starts falling apart she can't
strategize right she's for Medicare for
all no she's not she's for Medicare for
some what's Medicare for some I don't
know right and she goes in the next
debate and telsey gabard kicks her ass
and then goes in the third debate gets
her ass kicked again and she's starting
to drift away then at this point and
this is fun
um I have more votes for president than
KLA Harris does because KLA Harris
dropped out before Iowa because that's
how much of a disaster her campaign
turned into when she was leading she was
leading right so then she becomes vice
president and Biden probably because of
that bus line Jill Biden caught
tremendous feelings over that line okay
so Biden's like here have this albatross
around your neck it's called immigration
good luck I'm not going to do anything
about it I'm not going to change policy
but I'm putting you in charge of it to
get your ass handed to okay and she does
so that's a disaster and then she starts
doing interviews where she's like we
have to become the chain the being but
not the thing we were and The Unbecoming
and you're like what is going on why can
neither one of them
speak yeah and so but then the third act
shocks me Biden steps down she goes
grabs all those delegates in a super
competent way that we talked about
earlier and then she goes out and gives
a speech I'm like oh that speech is good
okay another one another one I'm like
wait a minute these are good speeches no
more word salads then she picks Tim
Walls and shocks the world I'm like
that's a correct VP Pi yeah that is a
miracle right and then she goes and does
the economically populous plan all those
proposals about housing that people care
about grocery prices that people care
about real or not real that is correct
political strategy so this kamla Harris
is back to the original kamla Harris who
was a very competent skilled politician
and as I was uh telling you offline she
is doing uh whoever's doing her Tik Tok
is is like blowing up and they're doing
risky edgy stuff yes I did not expect
that from somebody that kind of comes
from the Biden Camp of just like be safe
be boring all this kind of stuff so you
have to give KLA Harris credit cuz she's
the leader of the campaign and she makes
the final decisions but there's there's
apparently a couple of people inside
that campaign that are ass kickers and
they're and they have convinced her to
take risk which Democrats never take and
it is correct to take risk you cannot
get to Victory without risk so um the
vice president pick was is the
bellweather when Hillary Clinton picked
Tim Kane I said that's she's going to
lose because Tim Kane is playing prevent
defense he's he's he's wallpaper I mean
he'd be lucky to be wallpaper he's just
a white wall right he's just and when he
speaks it's white noise he never says
anything interesting he's the most
boring pick of all time that's saying we
already won haha okay if KLA Harris had
picked Mark Kelly that's the Tim Kane
equivalent okay oh he's an astronaut I
don't give a that he's an astronaut
what is he saying is he a good
politician does he have good policies is
he exciting on the campaign Trail is he
going to add to your moment him Mark
Kelly he might be a good guy but number
one he's a very corporate Democrat and
number
two it's like watching grass grow he oh
he's terrible as speaking if you ask me
right so so I thought for sure she's
gonna pick Mark Kelly right because
that's what a normal Democrat does or if
they want to go wild and crazy they'll
go to Basher so I was like please let it
be Shapiro because he's at least not bad
he's done some populous things and he's
strategic he's really smart I need smart
cand Cates dumb candidates don't help
they don't have a mind of their own they
can't take risks they're not independent
thinkers they they're going to lose so
she picks the smartest most populous
candidate boom boom we got a winner
that's a good campaign uh speaking of
risks when they debate when h k and
Trump debate what do you think that's
going to look like who who do you think
is going to
win oh that's not close KLA Harris win
yeah unless she falls apart unless she
goes back to the bad era right that's
risk number three well hold on a second
for oh I guess in the debate you don't
have you can have pre-written it seems
like when she's going off the top of her
head is when the word word salad
sometimes comes out sometimes yeah we'll
have to see right we'll have to see
because she hasn't done any tough
interviews she hasn't really been
challenged so I hope to God that doesn't
happen that she doesn't fall apart you
mean cuz I hope she does a bunch of
interviews right oh definitely
definitely I'm like
I'm this is going to sound really I'm
too honest but but I am like in in the
context of K Harris probably shouldn't
come on the young tur we do a really
tough interview and it would hurt her
okay do you though like it's tough but
like you're pretty respectful maybe I
just have my sort of uh um like I'm okay
with a little bit of tension you're
pretty respectful even when you're
yelling there's like respect like you
you don't do
um uh like a gotcha type thing there's
certain things you could do like you
said this in the past you can say a line
from the past that's out of
context uh it forces the other person to
have to define the cont you just you
know sort of debate type
tactics over and over like you don't
seem to do that you just like ask them
questions genuinely and then you argue
the point and then you also like hear
what they say the only thing you I've
seen you do sometimes tough that you
sometimes like interrupt like you speak
over the person if they are trying to do
the same right only if they're
filibuster yeah if they're filibuster
but like that that's a tricky one that's
um yeah it's a tricky right no but Lex
the problem for her coming on our show
isn't that we would be unfair to her
it's that we would be fair so we would
ask questions she is going to have
trouble answering all the cor corporate
stuff right I mean like so Biden said he
was going to take the corporate tax rate
to 28% and he barely tried you say
you're going to take it to 28% why
should we trust
right you guys said $15 minimum wage and
then you took it out of the bill why
should we trust you right those are very
tough questions she's never going to get
that in mainstream media mainstream
media is going to have faux toughness
but in reality they're going to be
softballs right and so the debates
you're right Lex is is a little bit
easier because Sarah Palin proved that
you could just memorize scripted talking
points and she admitted it later she's
like she was super nervous she memorized
the talking points and no matter what
they asked she just gave the talking
point which by the way people barely
noticed because that's what all
politicians do okay she just admitted it
and
so no Trump's a disaster in a debate
he's a he's a oneman wrecking crew of
his own campaign so any competent
debater would eviscerate Donald Trump I
mean they just On Any Given topic when
he says something
like here let's take One Lunatic
conspiracy theory that he just had
recently uh and by the way if you're a
right-winger and you keep getting hurt
every time I say he's a lunatic or I
insult Donald Trump don't like you you
sound like a left-winger I'm offended
I'm offended I'm offended get over it
get over it okay so we we have
disagreements hear what the other side
is saying and by the way I say the same
thing to the left okay I say you you
think everybody on the right's evil
you're crazy no they just have a
different way of looking at the world
which by the way is an interesting
conversation we should talk about that
in a minute too but so I I do it to both
sides but okay Trump says oh I I don't
think there's anyone at kamla Harris's
rallies it's all the pictures are
AI okay so let's say he says that in a
debate because he he's liable to say
anything right you just say okay so you
think every reporter that was there
every photographer that was there every
human being that was there they're all
lying they have a conspiracy of
thousands of people but none of them
were actually
there do you understand how insane you
sound so this is a good place to uh Can
you steal man the case for Trump yeah
yeah so Trump is a massive risk because
of all the things we talked about
earlier but there is a percentage chance
that he's such a wild card that he
overturns the whole system and that is
why why the establishment is a little
scared of him so if he's in office here
I'll give you a case of Donald Trump
doing something right something wrong
first and then something right so he
bombs uh solomani the top general of
Iran and kills him that risks World War
II that r a giant war with Iran that
devolves Iran is four times the size of
Iraq if you're anti-war you should have
hated that he assassinated Solomon but
after the assassination Iran doesn't
want to get into it even though in a
rage and they do a small bombing you
could tell if it's a small or a big one
right so that's them saying we don't
really want war but for our domestic
crowd we have to bomb you back right and
that's when the military-industrial
complex comes to Trump and says no you
have to show them who's tough and bomb
this area and Trump says no they did a
small bombing not a large bombing I
don't want the war I'm not going to do
that bombing that was this Shining
Moment yeah for for me one of the
biggest deal man for Trump is that he
has both the skill and the
predisposition to not be a
warmonger he I think better than the
other candidates I've seen is able to
end Wars and end them now you might
disagree with it but in a way where
there's legitimately effective
negotiation that happens like I just
don't
see the any other candidate currently
being able to sit down with zinsky and
Putin and to negotiate a peace treaty
that both are equally unhappy
with
so on the one hand uh almost all other
politicians are going to be controlled
by the military-industrial complex and
that uh complex wants to bleed Russia
dry and that's what the Ukraine war is
doing it's a double win for the defense
contractors number one every dollar we
spend to UK uh send to Ukraine is
actually not going to Ukraine it's going
to us defense contractors and then they
are sending old weapons to Ukraine the
money is to build new weapons for us so
a lot of people don't know that so the
defense contractors want that war to go
on forever and they're an enormous
influence in Washington the second win
is they're depleting Russia and Russia
has gotten them themselves into a
quagmire like we did in Iraq and
Afghanistan and they're bleeding out so
they the military industrial complex
wants Russia to bleed out for as long as
humanly possible they actually care more
about their own interests of course than
they do about Ukrainian interests so in
fact there's a good argument to be made
that Ukraine could have gotten a peace
deal earlier uh and we prevented it so
but the bottom line now is probably how
a deal gets done is they let go of three
more areas in Ukraine they already lost
Crimea they'd have to let go of three
more regions and that is tough because
at that point Russia's a little bit
encouraged every time they do an
invasion they get more land they might
not get all the land they wanted but
they get a lot of land so that's it's a
very difficult issue but literally which
which person if they become president
will end the war Trump will end that war
because Trump will go in and he loves
Russia and Putin anyway I just disagree
with he he loves Russia the implication
of that meaning he will do whatever
Putin tells him I think he'll do 90% of
what Putin tells him I just disagree
with that I think uh I think he wants to
be the kind of person that says you
to Putin while while patting while
patting him on the back and being you
know but out neotia Putin so I I don't
like talking about Russia because
there's so much emotions that go into
that topic the rightwing the minute you
mention Russia they're like oh it's a
hoax and all this baggage that comes
with it Etc to me Russia's not any
different than Saudi Arabia or Israel
for Trump you give me money I like you
you give buy my Apartments I like you
right if you don't give me money I don't
like you it's not that complicated so
okay take like don't worry about the
Russia part of it like the bottom line
is Trump thinks what do I care about
those three regions of UK Ukraine I want
to get this thing done right so he'll go
and he'll say Ukraine we're going to
withdraw all help unless you agree to a
peace deal with Russia and Russia wants
those three regions that's the peace
deal that's it so Ukraine will lose a a
part of their country and we'll get to a
peace deal see I I hope not I hope not I
think
Trump uh sees themselves and uh wants to
be a great negotiator so and I
personally
want the death the death of people to
end and I think Trump would bring that
much faster and I I disagree with you at
least my hope is that he would negotiate
something that would be fair he's
not his anti-war record is so
complicated because moving the embassy
in Israel and killing the top Iranian
General were super provocative and they
could have easily triggered a giant War
there and then you know what's going to
happen if you get into any kind of real
war Trump's going to want to prove his
buttons larger so then he's going to do
massive
ridiculous bombings I mean I'm worried
about nukes and so we had Giuliani on
the show The on on the RNC and I asked
him this question I said you know he
keep saying oh they wouldn't do it if I
was in charge I'm like what does that
mean because it sounds like what it
means is they wouldn't do it because
they know if they did it I would do
something insane like attack
Russia or use nukes and Rudy said yeah
that's what it means so that means you
have to at least Bluff that and you have
to get them to believe that he's a
Madman that's the madman theory of Nixon
and Nix and and Rudy said that too he
was very clear about it but the problem
is if you get your bluff called and so
if you actually attack Russia you're
going to start World War III so that's
why
yeah if you could if you could just get
away with bluffing maybe but he's
playing a very dangerous game and he
massively increased drone strikes on the
other hand he didn't bomb Iran further
and on the other hand he started the
process of withdrawal from Afghanistan
so not black and white complicated
record and one thing I I give him
another piece of credit
here I think I'm taking this steel
Manning too far uh but here's
the the credit was that um he changed
the rhetoric of the rightwing they went
from the party of Dick Cheney war is
great uh and let's it you know all
Muslims are evil and so he he hates
Muslims too but that's a different thing
right but like oh we have to attack the
enemy we have to start wars Etc to now
Republican voters are generally anti-war
and hate Dick Cheney oh I'll take it
I'll take it so that's a great thing
that Trump did even if he didn't mean it
even if he does these provocative things
that could lead to a much worse War even
if I'm worried that he'll be so reckless
he'll start a bigger War at least he did
that right and so I'm happy to have our
our right-wing brothers and sisters join
us in the anti-war movement and and I'm
not being a jerk about it like I love it
and and any and so this is another thing
the left does wrong from time to time
which is if you agree with a
right-winger 2% they'll be like oh
welcome in come on vote for Trump come
on in yeah woohoo water's warm right if
you if you disagree with the left 2%
they're like that's it you're banished
and you're a Nazi well brother how are
we going to win an election if you're
banishing everybody there is right so
hold up these Republican voters are
coming at your anti-war position take
the win no they're magga and I won't
deal with them even when they agree with
you
that doesn't make any sense that doesn't
make any sense take the win right so
when Charlie Kirk says yes to Paid
Family Leave when Patrick Bet David on
his program says yes roughly says yes to
Paid Family Leave take the win RFK Jr
you said uh some positive things for a
while about RFK Jr uh and I think you
said you would even
consider uh voting for him given the
Slate of people this was at the time
when Biden was uh still in um what do
you think about him what do you think
about RFK Jr as a candidate as a person
he's been on the show right yeah so he
he was on our show people love that
interview you could check it out anytime
right um and and why do people love it
whether they're right or left because
we're Fair we actually ask him about his
policy positions he explained them I
challenge him and then he explains and
we give him a fair hearing but I I knew
Bobby a little bit before he ran when he
was an environmental a lawyer right uh
and his legal work is excellent um and
and he's been on the right side of most
of the issues for most of his life so a
I like him on that two on his Wildlife
the Dead bear and the worms and all that
stuff right so there's two important
lessons you should get about out of that
well one's just about Bobby but the
other one's a general one that's really
important for you to know no matter what
you think of Bobby Kennedy on the
personal front I have a friend that's
very similar to him in fact he's one of
my best friends and and I know why I
this my theory on why Bobby and my
friend are LED a wild life both of their
dads young died young when my friend's
dad died he he was 18 and his dad died
in his arms and he has a motto what is
lived cannot be unlived so if I had a
great time and I thought it was
hilarious to dump a dead bear some Park
then I lived it and I had a great time
and nothing you could do about it okay
and sometimes that'll get you in trouble
and sometimes you'll have a fantastic
time right and and obviously Bobby's dad
was killed it when he was young and
maybe that got into his head of like you
better Live Strong and and you know live
an interesting life and so I don't
begrudge him that even if I begrudge
some of the things that he did in that
life I get why he did it so I don't hate
him like other people hate him for some
of those personal stuff right so and I
like him for all the things that he did
positive holding uh you know fossil fuel
companies accountable protecting
communities that had poison dumped into
the rivers Etc right so the thing that
affects everybody is when he gets like
corporate media smeared the hell out of
him and they didn't allow him to speak
and then they did the needle in a Hy
stack trick so whenever it's an Insider
they find the best parts of their lives
and then they amplify so Joe Biden is
average Joe from Scranton
been in DC for the last 52 years you
think we don't have eyes in ears okay
like Average Joe from Scranton who are
you kidding so there is a guy named Fred
Thompson who's an actor and he was a
senator from Tennessee later and he had
this great little trick that he would do
as a red pickup truck that he would
campaign with right so so he looks like
a regular Joe right but he he's a
millionaire actor but here's the funny
part he would drive to the red pickup
truck in a limo and he would drive back
from the campaign event in a limo but
the Press never reported the limo they
only reported him in the red pickup
truck as if that's what he drives see
that's the theater of politics why cuz
Fred Thompson was a corporate Republican
so they loved him so they go yeah sure
yeah red pickup truck a good old friend
right so but if you're an outsider and
they don't like you then they're going
to look at the haast stack of your life
and they're going to try to find needles
so they've done this to Trump they've
done this to Bernie they've done this to
Bobby Kennedy
Jr uh and with with Bobby they're like
oo there's some juicy needles in here
okay so they find those and they go you
see this the only thing B you should
know about Bobby Kennedy Jr is that he
found a dead bear and put it in Central
Park
uh oh wait wait wait I found another one
the other thing you should know about
Bobby is that he once said in a divorce
deposition that he had a brain warm that
it by the way it turns out that affects
millions of people and it's not that big
a deal right but look he is a radical oh
he is this defines them completely the
spectacular case of that actually
happened to me so I ran for congress in
2020 and the New York Times LA Times CNN
they all butchered me with needles
okay so they said it's a long history of
making anti-muslim
jokes well first of all they didn't even
say jokes they said anti-muslim
rhetoric I'm like I'm Muslim do I mean
I'm an atheist but I grew up Muslim my
family's Muslim my background's Muslim
you don't think that's relevant in the
story and they did it based on one joke
I told about and they say oh also of
course I'm they say that I'm
anti-semitic that's like that's you
start with that that's that's just baked
in for everyone right so they said I had
made a joke about how Orthodox Jews and
Muslims they think that getting into
heaven is a little bit of a fashion
contest okay so they the Orthodox Jews
go in there with a Russian Coast from
the 1800s and the giant Russian hat you
know the Muslims go with their robe and
the skull cap and stuff and God's
looking around going no no no oh nice
outfit come on in right like do you
really think the creator of the universe
gives a damn what you wear okay so the
New York Times took that and said long
history of being anti-semitic and
anti-muslim right okay so there's this
oh this is a famous one uh relatively
famous uh I did a joke about beastiality
like nice a dozen years ago very nice so
I start out the joke nice and dry and I
go look is the horse going to object if
he's the one getting pleasure now Anna
as my co-host she's younger at that time
and she's like that seems like a bad
idea I'm like of course it's a bad idea
okay but I'm being drying but some
people are laughing in the studio and
stuff and then uh and then I say you
know if I was Emperor of the world I
would make that legal and they cut the
tape if you watch the rest of the tape I
say now would the horse object
no so but they cut the tape so the New
York T So originally a right-winger did
that and then a like a a establishment
troll uh in that primary started putting
out those tapes to everyone Jake Tapper
retweeted it didn't look to see if it's
edited or not edited the New York Times
implied that beastality was part of my
agenda agenda Jesus Christ please tell
me that's part of your Wikipedia that
that that the beastiology thing is part
of your I don't know I don't know but
guys so in that in those stories I'm not
important and even Bobby Kennedy Jr is
not
important what it reveals about the
media is what's important so they're
going to find those needles whether it's
and even if they don't have the needles
you know what we'll cut the tape before
your joke uh jok's punchline right so
we'll just run it and we'll lie about
you who cares right and so oh they also
said that I had David dukon to share his
anti-semitic point of view if you watch
the interview I told David Duke you're
an anti-semite you're a racist you're a
bigot you're an idiot right it was the
toughest interview he's probably ever
had in his life and other journalists
got mad at that part and they were like
no guys you're just flat out lying like
I I watched the interview did any of you
watch the interview he takes the guy's
head off right and so the New York Times
issued a correction on that one so
they're like okay fine he was being
sarcastic when he said sure you're not
racist Dave okay well it's the one of
the sources of Hope to all this is
there's a lot of uh Independent Media
now um but mainstream media has a lot of
power still it cares a lot of power you
think they're going to die eventually
yeah definitely so two things about that
that are super important first of all
this is why I tell people to have hope I
don't believe in false hope right so if
you think KLA Harris is your night and
shining armor she's going to come in
she's going to get money out of politics
she's going to ignore the donors that's
false hope it's crazy talk right so I
why am I in favor with KLA Harr I'm
going to live to fight another day I'm
worried that Trump's going to end the
whole thing and then we're not going to
have an opportunity to actually get a
populist win right so and I'm encouraged
by some of the things she's doing and
maybe she does even 25% of her agenda
but I'm not going to give you false hope
that she's your savior right but I
believe massively in Hope and number one
because it's true to to the point that
we were talking about earlier Lex and
how last 200 years have been choppy but
overall fantastic t terrible things have
happened in that time period some of the
worst things that have ever happened in
history but overall life expectancy is
higher everything is you know incomes
are higher health is better Etc right so
hope is not misplaced it's real it's
empirical okay so now we talked about
how you could get money out of politics
and that's a legitimate
hope but media is another place where we
have huge hope so of all the corporate
robots the most important robot is Media
so when mainstream media has you hooked
in at the back of your neck you're going
to believe all these fairy tales about
how politicians are nice people and
they're trying to do the right thing and
donor money doesn't have any influence
on them right so once you unplug from
The Matrix um well then you begin to see
oh yeah hey look he took the donor money
did what the donors wanted he took the
donor money did what the donors want 98%
of the time right so then you see
clearly so now what's happening at Large
mainstream media is losing their power
and now online media is swarming
swarming swarming swarming and so this
goes back to why I started The Young
Turks so let me touch on that here and
then we can come back to it if you want
so in 1998 I write an email to my
friends and I say online video is going
to be
television and unsurprisingly and they
say you're nuts that's never going to
happen at that point we're still doing
AOL dial UPS like right online video
barely exists and television's Mammoth
um I said guys it's just a matter of
logic like for me it's there's so many
ironies I'm known for yelling online
sometimes but in reality I'm obsessed
with logic so when you have Gatekeepers
Gatekeepers pick based on what they want
what the powerful one in that case
advertisers politicians Etc they are
never going to design programming as
good as wisdom of the crowd when uh
people start doing online video I'm like
boom there's no Gatekeepers this is
democratized wisdom of the crowd is
going to win so if you start with no
money and you let's pick a different
example not The Young Turks let's say
Phil def Franco he's been around forever
okay and uh and he also does news and so
Phil starts doing a
show and he doesn't have any money just
like us and so what does he what does he
have to do to get an audience he has to
do a show that is really popular he's
got to figure out a way how do I get
their attention how do I keep their
attention and he starts doing a great
show right and so every year it's us and
Phil for best news show for like a
decade right and meanwhile on back over
at CNN Wolf Blitzer is still droning on
from a teleprompter you put Wolf Blitzer
online without the force of CNN with him
he gets negative seven views no one's
interested in what Wolf Blitzer has to
say it's not personal I I don't know the
brother right I'm just saying
institutionally logically Etc so I'm
like these guys are going to win so when
YouTube starts we go on YouTube right
away we're the First YouTube partner so
I am literally the original YouTuber
okay nice uh Susan W jiski the former
CEO the late Susan wuis uh wonderful
woman uh and if that triggers you again
on the right you're wrong she was a
terrific person and um and she when she
started her own YouTube channel uh I was
the first interview because we were the
first YouTube partner so so I love that
so we're in De but let me connect it
back to the hope when mainstream media
has you hooked you got no hope because
you don't have the right information you
have propaganda you have marketing you
don't have real news when you're in the
online world it's chaotic
and don't get me wrong it's got plenty
of downsides right but within that chaos
the truth begins to emerge and so for
example Young Turks has had dozens of
fights with different creators
throughout history why when you're
number one in news online the algorithm
rewards anyone attacking you because
then you get into their algorithmic Loop
mhm it's not an accident that we've been
attacked dozens of times one we're
independent thinkers so anyone if we
don't match their ideology they're going
to attack us but number two they get in
our algorithm loop it's too hard to
resist right so all of a sudden they
think that we're being funded by Nancy
Pelosi or the CIA and oh We're Off to
the Races there's another fight right
but our competition is a graveyard and
so we've B we won all almost all all of
those fights why because we try really
hard to stick with the truth with logic
and we don't do audience capture even if
our audience is going in one direction
we don't think it's right we Anna and I
will come out and go no sorry guys love
you but rent control is not a good idea
okay ETA so in that
world the people it's going to take a
while guys but people who are telling
the truth are eventually going to rise
up and when they do now we're free and
now the second part is even more
devastating for mainstream media because
I'm a businessman right I keep looking
at the revenue for CNN Etc and they have
a massive problem and people don't
realize how big the problem is that
thing is going to capsize I don't talk
about it often because I don't want more
competition okay I'm I also have a
company right in in the online World Etc
but but but I'm too honest I gotta say
it I gotta say it so there they have two
revenue streams one is ADS that's why
they serve advertisers and politicians
are huge advertisers as we mentioned the
second uh Revenue stream depending on
the compan is arguably more important
which is
subscribers so now what happens in a
business normally is uh so they started
out low and then they got high and now
they got a ton of subscribers at its
peak cable has 100 million households
right so they're raking in unbelievable
money from subscriber fees and they got
advertising on top so when you're all
the way up here your costs start to rise
why do they rise because then the on air
Talent has leverage and as an example
there's many other examp the and so the
onair talent like Sean Hannity says I do
a program that brings in x amount of
maybe a 100 million maybe 200 million so
give me 40 million a year and they do
Shawn is making 40 million a year last I
checked okay so I don't know if he's
still getting that kind of money and I'm
just basing out on reporting right but
that's a monster so they have all these
giant costs but the minute you you go
from 100 million now we're at I think
around 70 million you just lost a giant
chunk of your Revenue now when your
costs are higher than your Revenue
nighty night it's been nice knowing
you yeah it's going to collapse it's
going to be painful but what we need
guys is like sorry last thing on that is
we need the print guys like AP Reuters
intercept the lever the serota runs
whatever Ryan's working on now it's that
Ryan Grim that we need those badly we
need someone to collect actual
information and do the best they can and
presenting it in an objective way we all
got to support that so you can't lose
text that's so important the TV guys are
just actors you can lose them overnight
and it won't hurt you it'll help you
yeah just it's going to be
a a messy battle for truth because the
reality is there's a lot of money to be
made and a lot of attention to be gained
from drama farming so of just constantly
creating drama and sometimes drama helps
find the truth like we were mentioning
but most of the time it's just drama and
it can it doesn't care about the truth
it just cares about drama and then the
same is like conspiracy theories now
some conspiracy theories have value and
depth and they allow us to to question
The Establishment institutions but the
bottom line is conspiracy theories get
clicks and so you can just keep coming
up with random conspiracy theories and
they many of them don't have to be
grounded in the truth at all and so
that's the sea we're operating in and
so it's a turkey space too but Lex who
look at all the people who are the
biggest uh now because we've now had a
couple of decades at this right so uh
and I mean as an industry
so I would argue you're huge and you
don't do that you don't do the
conspiracy theories you don't do the
drama at all right um Hogan is huge yeah
maybe there's drama but he's genuine
right I got a lot of issues with some of
his policies I mixed opinions on Joe in
a lot of different ways but I don't
doubt that he's genuine and people can
sense that right and he's huge we're
genuine we're huge so this is the market
beginning to work yeah so speaking of
Joe let me ask you about
this here we go I didn't actually know
this but when I was prepping for this
ation I saw that you actually said at
some point in the past that you can beat
up Rogan in a fight yeah no you said
that you have a shot it's a nonzero
probability yes do you still believe
this yes but the probability is dropping
it's dropping every day I think it's the
probably the stupidest thing I've ever
heard you say so I did much I wrestled
and did Jiu-Jitsu and Judo and all the
kinds of fighting Sports my whole life
and I just observed a lot of really
confident large guys roll into gyms he's
ripped he could deadlift he could talk
all kinds of and he's believes he's
going to be the next world champion and
he just gets his ass kicked yeah no no
of of course okay and I've seen like I
saw this Israeli MMA fighter take on an
anti-semite who was huge and thought
that you know he believed in like Nick
FES is conspiracy theories or something
and the MMA fighter dismantled him and I
loved it okay and then like we tweeted
back and forth Etc so guys first let me
just assure you I get it so now let me
tell you why I said it and then why I
think it's a non-zero chance so Michael
smar cones had written this
blog like I don't know 10 15 years ago
on hington post we were both bloggers at
that point and about the wussification
of America now he was saying the left is
a bunch of wussies right so I wrote a
Blog saying hey Michael I would rather
debate you so if you want to debate
about how we're wussies let's do it
let's find them but you know you're
mentioning physicality right and how you
guys are tougher so if you prefer only
in a prescribed setting right and we're
not going to go do it in the streets
like idiots right but if you want we'll
have a boxing match or whatever you want
and we'll see who's tougher and he
panicked and he cried to Mommy which was
Ariana Huffington as oh Jake's
intimidating me right okay all right
well who who's the wussy now right
so that is not to actually get into a
fight with poor Michael smes right is to
prove hey don't use rhetoric like that
that's dumb and this is me proving that
it's dumb okay so now Joe had said I
forget what he said at the time and he
say something similar right and I'm up
to hear with Joe at that point I don't
know if we'll ever talking yet right but
uh you've been on a show and I really
that was a good
conversation a while back yeah yeah I
hope he has you on again yeah so I get
it he I bet you I don't like this take
you have a lot I bet you he hates it
because him as an MMA
commentator he gets to hear so many Bros
yeah it's all about the mindset bro now
to Steel Man the point you're making
which I do think it's the stupidest
thing you've ever said
but the actual intent which is whether
your left or right there's there's
strong people on the left like mentally
strong physically strong like I think
the whole point is not that you can beat
him but you're willing to step you're
willing to fight if you need to that's
it's 100% so it's not like I believe I
can beat him it's like I'm willing like
all this you know calling the
people on the left wusses or whatever
I'm willing to step in the fight even if
I'm on train even I'm if out of shape
I'm willing to fight yeah I get it I I
understand that but just pick a
different person um that's why I wrote
down my genuine curiosity is if you can
beat up Alex Alex Jones versus Jank you
that that that the legitim is I would
pay for that because you're both
untrained uh you both got I would say
the spirit no no he has look I'll give
the same fairness yeah I think I got an
8% chance of being beating Rogan yeah
you're you're L I know I got it hold on
and I think to be fair Alex has an 8%
chance of beating me okay oh wow okay
okay because you never know he catches
you on a lucky punch I got punched in
the ear once and you lose your balance
and then you're in a lot of trouble
right so I can get lucky Alex Jones can
get lucky it's me against Rogan is
harder I like you if you said to me you
don't have 8%
chance um but Alex does okay I'm not
going it's it's fine right so why would
does Alex stand almost no chance he
asked me so first of all it's not just
because I'm big and he's big one I
wrestled oh you wrestled yeah if you
wrestled then you're like I watched this
show with my kids physical 100 it's like
a Korean show where they try to find out
who's the best best athlete they have
one thing where they have to wrestle
away the ball and keep it this big giant
ball I'm like every wrestler is going to
win every MMA fighter is going to win
and every time they win and they're like
that how' you know that because we get
trained we're not going to lose to a
non- wrestler in a wrestling contest
it's not going to happen right
so you can get lucky but it's unlikely
so one wrestling now that was from a
long time ago but at least you know the
mechanics right uh number two I've
gotten into about 30 actual street
fights in my life and you could say
Street fight's not the same as MMA of
course that's true obviously true right
but it's not no experience it's some
experience and the most important part
of a street fight is being able to take
a punch to the face okay yeah know what
it feels like to get punched in the face
yeah so I've been punched in the face I
don't know does of times in my life I
used to start fight by saying I'll let
you take the first punch okay so I
didn't start the fights they just
started because they'd punched me in the
face
okay so and then and for Alex the main
thing and also true for Rogan is it's
about willpower right so if you if if
Joe has a 92% chance in my opinion of
knocking me out or beating me because he
has the skill and he's trained and he
knows what he's doing so all the
willpower in the world isn't going to
help you if you get kicked upside the
head right so but in the unlikely
circumstances that I've worn him down
right that I'm a little bit more in the
ball game because I got willpower for
Alex he does have the will power I have
okay I'm because to me the idea of
losing to Alex Jones is Unthinkable I
would do anything not to lose anything
let me just say so that's beautiful I
love this and I I would pay a lot money
to watch the two of you just even like
wrestle but uh with Joe I
think I just I I have to say it's like
it's it's
0.001% chance you have a chance before
you even get to the mentality and the
other thing
is on the mentality side one of the
fascinating things about Joe is he's
actually a sweetheart in person like
this but there's something that takes
over him when he competes brother we've
been around 22 years in the toughest
industry in the world right if you like
you have any idea how hard it is to run
a 75 person company and make money
online and survive after all the guys
who took billions of dollars went down I
hear you tremendous willpower so but
overall you're I this is not the hill
I'm dying on okay I Joe would win I get
it I think we're all allowed one kind
of um blind spot I suppose so you don't
think a Hu a a big guy uh that still is
in good shape that was a wrestler that's
been in a lot of street fights you still
think
01 it depends on street fights but yeah
0 Z1 I just see yeah and it's such a
minute disagreement because so take me
out of it so you take out the willpower
part of blah blah blah I think it's one
to two% yeah he could catch the guy on
about you know get lucky I think it's
because I've talked to so I trained with
a coach named John Doner and we talk
about this a lot and I think technique
is just such
technique is the thing that also feeds
the willpower it actually builds up your
confidence in the in a way that like
nothing else
does in the in the more actionable way
because you won't need that much
willpower no the if the technique is
backed like you don't have to be like a
tough guy to win debates if you're just
good at debates right so I think
people just don't understand the value
in sport and especially in combat of
Technique No I the are great ironers I
actually totally agree with that that's
why he mentioned the physical 100
technique is going to win every like
almost every time we're having a debate
about whether it's eight or one or 0.01
like it's either way technique wins we
agree okay beautiful in the uh one of
the controversial things you've
done in the '90s as a student at upen
you publicly denied the Armenian
Genocide which is the mass murder of
over a million Armenians in 1915 and 16
in the Ottoman Empire um you have since
then publicly uh and clearly changed
your mind on this um tell me the process
you went through to change your
mind yeah
so when you're a kid you're taught a
whole bunch of things that's the
software that we talked about earlier
right so cultural software is Media
family friends uh social media Etc
and so growing up in any tribe whether
it's a religious tribe or an ethnic
tribe you're going to get indoctrinated
into that tribe's way of thinking so you
take a Turkish person who's super
Progressive loves Bernie believes with
all their heart and peace and you tell
them something about Kurds and they'll
say oh no not those guys they're
terrible and evil and we have to do what
we do to them ah you see that's the
tribe taking over right and so uh you
tell any religious person what's wrong
with the other religions they're like oh
yeah yeah that's totally true you get to
their religion tribe takes over no how
dare you I'm offended right so I grew up
with Turkish propaganda so uh I'll tell
you a couple of funny instances of it
when we were kids we'd go Turkish
American Day Parade I'm like 10 or 12
years old it's in the middle of New York
because I grew up in Jersey that's why I
got in all those fights
uh and uh and we would chant in Turkish
turkeyy is the biggest country there's
no other country that's even big and I
was like this is crazy I'm like Dad
isn't this crazy America's big China's
big why are we chanting this nonsensical
chant right so that's the beginning of
beginning to realize you're
indoctrinated I'm in college and I read
about some battle that the ottoman uh
Empire lost and I'm like that can't be
right uh the Turks have only lost one
War World War I right and then I was
like oh my god I'm an idiot I got taught
that in third grade in Turkey of course
that's not true that's ridiculously un
true right all those thoughts are in
your head you don't even realize and so
on the Armenian Genocide I read the
Turkish version and the Turkish version
has all of these this evidence right so
it's real in that it exists but here
I'll give you a great example of it uh I
think it was Colonel Chester he's some
random American uh military guy after
World War I and he says about the
Armenians after the mass uh
March the forc marches he says they
return to the area fat and entirely
unass okay I'm like hey that's an
American Colonel that's saying that so
that's obviously true you see that
didn't happen right or at least in the
way that the Armenians say now as a
grown-up I look at it and I go are you
kidding me that guy's obviously trying
to get a contract with the Turkish
government right nobody returns from a
force March fat and entirely unmarred
right so that's propaganda and
so it and that one was so indoctrinated
that it was tough to let go so in at pen
I write that oped Etc and then over the
course of time and so Anna and I
disagree on things from time to time and
we've been co-hosting now for she's been
at the Young tur for 18 years and
co-hosting for you know almost 18 and so
she's Armenian and by the way I love
America I mean look at we came to
America because we love this country
Land of Hope and opportunity that's part
of why I fight so hard for the average
American for the American idea so here's
a Turk and an Armenian doing a show
together and it becomes the number one
online news show that's the beauty of
America right so she's telling me things
and we're having some onair discussions
about it Etc and then it just dawned on
me like no this was this this too was
obviously propaganda so at that point
once you realize that it becomes easier
that's why I'm trying to unplug people
from The Matrix because once you realize
it's propag aganda oh my God it gets
infinitely easier to start telling
what's true or not true so maybe by way
of advice how do you know when you're
deluded by Propaganda how do you know
you're not believing a kind of uh how do
you know when you're not plugged into
the Matrix when you're plugged into the
Matrix you have to keep testing it
against objective reality okay they said
something did it happen or did it not
happen so here here's an easy one Alex
Jones for a long time especially under
Obama kept saying going to put us on FEA
camps tell they're going to stop us all
in the FEA camps and they're going to
put us in going to let us out and I know
it I know it for sure right nobody's
been in a FEMA camp Obama left there was
no FEMA camps so what I ask like for the
right-wing conspiracy guys guys has any
of their things ever come true like they
always say all these crazy things that
never ever happen so the third time it
doesn't happen can you please start to
wonder maybe I'm on the wrong side maybe
and but but that's not just for right
Wingers that's easy right but it's also
for mainstream media and that's where I
get the biggest push back and that's
where because my tribe is is what the
kids call PMC professional management
class okay they're careerist you go up
the ladder you have this route that
route
Etc and so for that class the status quo
is pretty good so when you get when
Biden gives you 15% change you're like
what else do youall want that's amazing
he just course corrected a little bit
now it's perfect right but for the
average guy who needs a 100% change not
15 they look at it and and they go what
the he only did 15% and everybody's
declaring him a hero right so those are
the hardest guys to get through on and
those are the guys who get most mad at
me not the right-wingers The
Establishment that's why I I'm Nails on
a chalkboard for them because I'm on the
left but I call out their crap and their
marketing and propaganda and that's why
I mentioned earlier no one probably not
he might not even consciously know it
but no one dislikes Bernie more than
Obama because if Bernie got into office
he'd embarrass Obama by doing a lot more
change and Obama told us that change
wasn't possible you could only get 5%
and so if Bernie does 50% then Obama's
humiliated and his record and his legacy
is ruined right so he I don't think he
makes that conscious decision right but
it's subconscious it's a way of thinking
so if you're watching Morning
Joe test him he says something that
Biden is for $15 minimum wage when Biden
takes it out of the bill know that
morning Joe was lying to you he says
that Biden said he was for the public
option but he never even proposed it
when Morning Joe still defends him and
and you see an objective reality Biden
didn't actually propose that bill you
know that they're lying to you test it
against objective reality did it
actually happen or didn't it I mean
there's some of that just steal man some
of the conspiracy theories do you think
there's some value to the conspiracy
theories uh that come from the right but
actually more so come from the
anti-establishment so I mean for me one
mean there's a lot that uh raise a bit
of a question um a lot of them could
probably be explained by corporatism and
the military industrial complex uh but
there's also a lot of them can be
explained by creepiness and shadiness in
human nature uh Epstein is an example of
that there's a lot of ways to explain
Epstein um including the basic creeping
us a human
nature um but there could be bigger
explanations underlying it so sometimes
when we have long thoughtful
conversations like this I'll say it
depends a lot yeah and then people get
frustrated by that but then you're
frustrated by the world cuz it depends
so conspiracy theories if you say are
they all right or are they all wrong
already the question's wrong so it
depends what is the conspiracy theory so
if it's you know some of the Absurd ones
we've mentioned here easily disproven
right um on the other hand um there's a
conspiracy theory uh about JFK's
assassination which one's the conspiracy
theory that Lee Harvey Oswald from like
12 miles away shot a Magic Bullet that
went like this and hit like 13 people
and came out Kennedy's brain or that the
government might have wanted to cover up
an assassination of the president for
whatever reason okay come on now I'm of
course doing Hyperbole and like the JFK
enthusiasts will be like no it did the
bullet didn't actually go like this it
didn't actually hit 13 people I'm I'm
I'm kidding guys okay but in terms of is
that conspiracy theory real that JFK was
not just killed by Lee Harvey Oswalt
almost certainly right uh and so if you
read real books with tons of information
the most likely culprit is Alan Dulles
the head of the CIA that he fired back
when there was a deep State there
actually was a deep State they did coups
against other country's leaders all the
time but they tell us oh they wouldn't
do it to our own
leader but remember it's not the CIA he'
left the CIA already right so he get you
know so I don't know if it was excia
guys I don't know if the mob was
involved I don't know any of those
details but I know some things that are
obvious that bullet didn't magically hit
him from over there as Jack Ruby killed
Lee Harvey Oswald Jack Ruby was a
mobster who on the record had said that
he hated Kennedy all of a sudden he
became patriotic overnight and shot the
as salent who was unguarded maybe less
likely okay so let's speed up though so
my point is yeah some conspiracy
theories could be true it depends on
objective reality right you get to
Epstein again I always do it ahead of
time because I want you to test me and
see does it match objective reality so I
said the minute that it happened you'll
have your answer based on whether the
video in the hallway worked or not if
the video in the hallway Works there'll
be just as many consp iry theories but
it'll show actually who went in and
didn't go in okay but if the video in
the hallway doesn't work they definitely
killed him okay so a couple of days
later oh the video in that particular
hallway happened to not be working and
the guards both happen to be on break at
the same time and the most notorious
pedophile criminal in the country
happened to be unguarded and that is the
one time he decided to hand himself
listen man the only way you believe that
is if you got mainstream media to get
you to believe that the word that the
minute the phrase conspiracy theory is
mentioned you have to shut off your mind
and you have to believe whatever the
media tells you yeah well it's
interesting you just mentioned do you
think the CIA has not grown in power
versus no no they've greatly waned in
power interesting so so in the old days
the CIA has an actual deep State and
because the country was run by a bunch
of families right so you go to Yale the
Skull and Bones thing was real right and
you go to Harvard you go and half the
look at the dullas family right half of
them go to government the other half go
to banking uh why are the Central
American countries called banana
republics because we we America did a
coup against one of those countries
because a banana company wanted it okay
because they're like how dare you charge
whatever you want for your natural
natural resource we American
corporations have the right to all of
your natural resources at the lowest
possible rate Allan Get rid of these
guys okay and and Allan wood and
so and sometimes they would go
extrajudicial right like potentially
with the JFK assassination so now and
and by the way you pissed off Jed G
Hoover he was just going to put a bullet
in your head and we were done with you
okay Fred Hampton among others so um but
nowadays that's not how the world works
so a small number of families cannot
control a country and an economy this
size new people pop up well Mark
Zuckerberg wasn't part of those families
Elon Musk wasn't part of those families
neither was Bezos right for for you to
believe those conspiracy theories you
have to think that Bezos and musk Etc
were like oh you guys are still running
the country no problem go
ahead not not going to do that right so
now we've gotten into a system where
it's the Invisible Hand of the market
that runs the country but unfortunately
it's for only for the powerful and so
it's more of a machine and they don't do
and this is super interesting and ties
to what we were talking about earlier
Alx which is that they don't do
political assassinations anymore they do
character
assassinations that's the needle in the
hyack thing so and if you do an
assassination of someone you build up
their status they become a martyr and
you build up their CA but if you do a
character assassination you smear the
cause with the person and the cause goes
down not up so the market found a better
way of getting rid of agitating
Outsiders well that's you know one of
the conspiracy theories with Epstein is
that he's a front for like a I guess
CIA and they're getting data on
people like creepy
pedophile kind of data to they they can
use to then threatened character
assassination and they they put them in
this way put the people in their pockets
so look we're not in on it so we there's
no way we can know right but the I just
always go back to logic
so he has dirt on a lot of powerful
people he dies in a way that is is an
obvious murderer and not a
suicide and then you begin to think who
would have enough power to be able to
get away with that crime and that is a
very limited number of either people or
governments right so that's probably
your answer without knowing anything
that's internal yeah that's crazy we
don't have the list of clients what is
the best way to
achieve stability and peace in Israel
and Palestine
in the current situation and uh in the
next 5 10
years if people wanted to get to peace
it's relatively straightforward there's
already a deal the that was negotiated
the Saudis agreed to it uh and they're
an important uh player in this game uh
the Palestinians and the Israelis have
initially agreed to it even Hamas has
kind of agreed to it that deal exists
and it's just waiting on the Shelf to
get done right and it's pretty
straightforward Israel gets of the West
Bank in Gaza Strip uh but they keep X
percentage it used to be 4% then it went
up to 6% it's probably a higher number
now the Palestinians keep losing
leverage as we go right so you remember
how hard it was to get a deal on Ukraine
I thought that's a very complicated one
Israel is much more straightforward get
the hell out of the occupying
territories keep some of the god like
those settlements are the worst thing
they're cancer but anyway I don't know
there's but there is an answer to the
settlements and it's probably that
Israel keeps them even though that
drives me crazy no right of return for
Palestinians there'll be symbolic right
of return for a couple of families and
so Palestinians go oh no way guys you
have no leverage take the deal take the
deal okay so you're not going to get a
right of return Israel is not going to
allow millions of Palestinians to go and
vote in Israel it would end the Jewish
State you have to get to a practical
solution so honestly the number one
person blocking it now is than Yahoo
it's not even that's obvious that's that
doesn't take a lot of courage to say
that he says publicly I don't want a
Palestinian state I'm against a
two-state solution he's been monstrous
he's one of the worst terrorists of my
lifetime um so that's easy the rightwing
of Israel has lost its mind so the
smotrich and the benir is openly talking
about ethnic cleansing and driving them
into other Arab countries uh Ian this is
the definition of ethnic cleansing so
but
is
like I know that the Arabs are going to
take the deal the Saudi Arabia cannot
wait to take the deal because they just
want to get business going right you
think Hamas takes the deal so I had have
a solution where you don't need Hamas
but yes Hamas would definitely take the
deal Hamas already publicly said that
they would even get rid of that Israel
doesn't have a right to exist but our we
there's so much propaganda and American
Media it's maddening right so and this
idea that you don't deal with Hamas is
so dumb so the reason it's dumb is you
don't negotiate with your friends you
negotiate with your enemies well I don't
want to negotiate with them I don't like
them well then you're not going to get
to peace right but still there is a path
that doesn't include Hamas so make a
deal with fat that runs the best West
Bank then they get right now if F went
into Gaza Strip they wouldn't be able to
manage because they don't have enough
credibility they're mainly seen as in
cahoots with the occupiers whereas Hamas
is Hardcore and fighting against the
occupiers but if fatan delivers a peace
for not only a peace deal but a
Palestinian State then they come in as
Heroes so you make the deal with them
you let them run the Gaza STP and you
Empower them to drive out Hamas that way
they do your dirty work for you in a
sense right but good because Hamas is a
terrorist organization they're not
helpful and especially if the
Palestinians get a state the violence
has to stop immediately that's the whole
point the trade is you get a state
Israel gets safety and peace so no more
rockets at Israel no more Rockets if you
do any other Rockets when and Israel
does the barbaric thing they just did
even I would say hey brother we had a
peace deal okay so if you violate a
peace deal and you do a bomb they're
going to do a bomb and their bomb is
much larger okay so that and by the way
can it work it already has worked Israel
already did it with with Egypt so it
Egypt was a 100 times Hamas Egypt
gathered all the Arab armies and
actually physically invaded Israel when
Israel could lose and they did it
several times and Lex at the time all
not just the right like the the warhawks
but most people thought there's no way
Egypt will keep that peace deal oh
they're suckers we're giving back them
the Sinai Peninsula back and then
they're just going to keep bobbing and
attacking us there hasn't been a single
bomb from Egypt since the peace deal
peace deals work War gets you more war
peace deals get your peace and and if
you should never this is true of all of
life don't let the perfect be the enemy
of the good so if you're saying well I'm
not positive that a peace deal is going
to be perfect and and 12 more Rockets
might be fired well brother what's what
do we have now right we have endless
Rockets now if Israel is supposed to be
a safe haven for Jews and I get it and I
want it
okay then become a safe haven the way
that you're a safe haven is stop the
occupation it's not complicated and and
the reason they're not let's be honest
the reason the right-wing government of
Israel is not stopping the occupation is
because they want to take more more land
and so they have throughout time taken
way more of the West Bank than they had
originally and now nety who is saying I
want a corridor at the in the middle of
Gaza and I want a corridor at the border
of Egypt now we're back to occupying
Gaza physically let alone through Power
and Etc so BB has to go definitely
what's the role in you of us in making a
peace deal like that
happen it it's going to sound outlandish
but I can get you a ceasefire almost
overnight if BB's gone and because the
Israeli negotiators have said publicly
pleasa not publicly got leaked and it
was in the Israeli press you have to
give us a little bit of wiggle room if
you don't give us a little bit of wiggle
room obviously they're not going to do
the deal and he's like I know right
that's why he's not giving them the
wiggle room so don't ask for land in
Gaza get the hell out of Gaza you
ceasefire that's the easy part so the
hard part is the occupation ending the
occupation but even that I can get it to
you in two months as long as Israel
actually wants a deal so go to an
election get rid of Netanyahu put in uh
you know um Benny gance is Benny gance
an angel no he's the one that ordered
all the bombings of Gaza to begin with
right he's look I Benny gance has got
massive war crimes on his record so
don't worry he's not a softy okay but
he's not my favorite guy in the world to
say the least but Benny gance can do a
peace deal if he wants to so look only
one group of people can actually settle
this well there actually two groups of
people one is the Israeli population you
vote in someone who wants to do a peace
deal you'll get a peace deal okay number
two is the American president so if I'm
the American president I'm saying a
hypothetical right or any American
president that actually wants to get a
peace deal
done you just say I'm going to cut the
funding Israel will do the deal
immediately they don't say they want to
cut the funding because APAC gives them
$100
million it's not complicated not 1%
complicated yeah so Lex tell me this
okay so if the US president said uh I'm
going to cut the funding do you think
that it might have a giant problem for
Netanyahu might it hurt his government
might they have to go to an election
would Israeli politicians let alone the
population begin to really really worry
that they're going to lose an enormous
source of funding and
weapons yeah absolutely absolutely so
why wouldn't we use our leverage it's
crazy not to use our
leverage yeah uh and this is where we go
back to the Steel Man of trump it feels
like he's the only one crazy enough to
to use that leverage by crazy I mean in
a good kind of sense bold enough not
giving a about convention not
giving a about pressures and money
and influence and all that kind of stuff
yes but with the biggest asteris in the
history of the world which is 12% chance
he does that and that's great but a huge
chance he does the opposite and he goes
let's call it 80 again 80% oh yeah
Miriam wanted me to give Israel to West
Bank to Israel so you have it guys now
you just occupy the whole thing forever
okay giant War oh yeah I'm going to
prove how tough I am I'm going to Nuke
Iran oh no what are you doing what are
you doing like it's Trump is a massive
risk he's an enormous amount of risk if
you were running a company and not a
country would you hire Trump as your CEO
everyone watching just screamed inside
their heads
no okay you would never they take that
kind of risk with your company you got
an 80% chance the guy's going to blow up
the company you're no way no way and you
know it too if you're especially if
you're a businessman you know you're not
going to hire that Loose Cannon to run
your company it's it's unacceptable risk
but you're not wrong we talked about it
earlier but as part of that risk there's
a sliver in there that he could
accidentally do the right thing we
talked a lot about Hope in this
conversation zooming out what gives you
hope about the future of this whole
thing of humanity not just the United
States of us humans on Earth so why am I
Center left and not center right it gets
to that question so you look at the
polling not just here in America but in
almost any country and it almost always
breaks out to 2/3 1/3 right 2/3 the of
the people say let's be empathetic let's
share let's be let's do equality Justice
let's be fair right one third goes no me
me me me me me me me me okay that's just
the nature of humanity and so and
usually the same third goes no change
and the other two-thirds go well some
change right
so because if you don't do any change
you're you're never going to get to the
right answer for the wisdom of the crowd
to work for free markets to work for
everything to work you have to keep
changing because the times change and
the culture changes and the situation
changes right so that's why there's
amendments in the Constitution because
you need to be able to change the
document from time to time be careful
with it right but you need to allow for
an Avenue for change so now why does the
one-third keep winning so many different
places because they have more money and
power and by the way if you're more
selfish you're more likely to get more
money in power right and I wish that
weren't the case but it is and these are
not blanket rules they're on average so
that third winds up winning in so many
circumstances but the bottom line is we
are a species that requires
consent
so I I mean I'm A Stone Cold atheist so
uh so I don't think we're kind of like
apes I think we are Apes okay and so and
all the scientists out there are going
well of course we are everyone else is
going that's crazy okay so when you look
at it as a species different species
react in different ways snakes have no
empathy because it's not in their DNA
they and that's why we have a a sense of
what a snake does right so for good news
is for higher level Apes like us bonobos
chimpanzees and humans we all roughly
want consent so a chimpanzee for example
is has a violent uh you know reputation
and they are violent and unfortunately
we're pretty close to them uh but what
people don't know is a leader doesn't
win through violence especially for
bonobos they Le they win by picking lice
off of other chimpanzees by going and
doing favors going to a hunt getting
food and giving it to someone else
because what they're Gathering is the
consent of the Govern and that's how you
become the alpha you don't do it through
physical dominance you do through
consent so that's how we're hardwired
that's in our DNA that two-thirds in the
long run will win and that and we will
have empathy we will have change and
that's the hope that we're all looking
for Hope has got the numbers it seems
like yeah and in fact one more more
thing Lex yes look at
history hope and change always win and
so again conservatives don't catch
feelings there's a need for
conservatives because you have to
balance things out if you just had even
though wonderful 2/3 that still wouldn't
be the ideal system you need you need a
Winston Churchill if you're in the
middle of World War II you need someone
to say regulating you know six
inspections of the elevators is too many
right so you need that balance and
conservatives have a role and it's a
really important role but having said
that they're assigned to losing
throughout history because they're
fighting on losing ground a conservative
says no change but the world is
constantly changing so they're destined
to lose that's why the founding fathers
won against the British Monarchy that's
why the Civil Rights Movement won they
didn't win overnight it took them a
hundred years to get equal rights let
alone past slavery right so we want on
women's rights we want on gay rights we
keep winning but every snapshot in in
time makes it feel like we're losing
there's a bad guy in charge we are't
living under corporate rule Etc but in
the long tide of History change Always
Wins so the
empathetic generally speaking leftwing
but again don't worry about the the
titles right people get obsessed with
the labels the 2third that's empathetic
that includes a lot of right right
Wingers right you win at the end in
history every single time so we fight
forward we we we're tough when we need
to be we need that willpower to win any
fight right but we're civil and
respectful to the other sign because
they are us so progressives all the time
we say look and I this is like the
ending of my book which is we for
conservatives you have a lot of empathy
for in inside the wagons so
conservatives are great to their family
generally speaking to their Community to
their Church to anyone that's inside the
wagons but they have they set up
electric fences and Barb Wire around
their wagons so if you're on the outside
you're the others and you're going to
get electrified and it's
constantly right and so I like to think
the left wing has wider W wagons so we
view the world as more us and not you
but the good news is that is if we win
we're not going to do Medicare for only
the left right we're going to do
Medicare for all you're all going to get
Universal Health Care we're going to do
higher wages for all the rightwing is
not going to be left out and if we're
and Lex I'm GNA tell you a fun story
it's it's about my
family and and I'm sure that parts of it
are apocryphal from because it's from
like 500 years ago um but
uh but it gives you a sense of the the
old Mark Twain quote if it's really Mark
Twain's of change happens really
gradually and then all of a sudden
so my mom's last name in Turkish is
Yasha it means slowly it's a weird name
even in Turkish and so one day we're
walking past the mosque in Istanbul when
I'm a kid and it says on the mosque yasa
we're like what is this okay so it's a
small little mosque we go inside and my
dad starts asking their mom questions
okay so he says why is the why is the
Moss name that and he said do you don't
know and he because my dad said my M my
wife's name is last name is Yash he's
like oh my God and he's like your
ancestor was the admiral of the Ottoman
Navy when they conquered
Constantinople okay so Grandpa
from 5 600 years ago came out with the
idea so you can't ever conquer
Constantinople because there's a giant
chain in the underneath the Bosphorus
all the ships get stuck on the Chain
there's cannons on both sides half the
ancient navies in the world are at the
bottom of the Bosphorus right so hasn't
been conquered in over a thousand years
nobody thinks it can to be conquered
Grandpa comes up with the idea of why
don't we build giant wooden planks over
land and grease them and pass our Fleet
over land onto the the other side
everybody goes because whenever anybody
proposes a new idea no matter how
logical it is they go oh it's impossible
no way it's going to work oh you're
crazy this is unconquerable City what
are you guys even doing every day me at
the Conqueror comes up to Grandpa and
says all right how's your plan to do
this project going and grandpa says
slowly and he names him Commander slowly
yeah and one night after the whole
thing's done they pass the entire a
Fleet over the land wind up in the
middle of the Bosphorus and the Holy
Roman Empire concedes they surrender
because change happens really gradually
and then all of a sudden good story well
Jen thank you for fighting for that
change for many years now for over two
decades now and uh thank you for talking
today appreciate it leex thank you for
having the
conversation thanks for listening to
this conversation with Jen Huger to
support this podcast please check out
our sponsors in the description and now
let me leave you with some words from
Hana
end totalitarianism is never content to
rule by external means namely through
the state and a Machinery of
violence thanks to its peculiar ideology
and the role assigned to it in the
apparatus of coercion totalitarianism
has discovered a means of dominating and
terrorizing human beings from
within thank you for listening and hope
to see you next time