Kind: captions
Language: en
so what is the difference between a mad
man and a
genius
success the following is a conversation
with Javier Malay the president of
Argentina he is a Libertarian anarcho
capitalist and Economist who campaigned
with the chainsaw that symbolized his
promise to slash the corrupt bureaucracy
of the state he stepped into the
presidency one year ago with the country
on the brink of hyperinflation deepen
debt and suffering from mass
unemployment and poverty he took this
crisis headon transforming one of Latin
America's largest economies through pure
free market principles in just a few
months in office he already achieved
Argentina's first fiscal Surplus in 16
years and not just avoided
hyperinflation but brought inflation
down to to its lowest in 3 years we
discuss all of this in detail both the
successes and the challenges his depth
of knowledge of economic principles
metrics and data was truly impressive
and refreshing to hear from a world
leader but even bigger than the economic
transformation of Argentina Javier
represents the universal fight against
government corruption and the fight for
Freedom economic freedom political
freedom and freedom of speech he has has
many critics many of whom are part of
the corrupt establishment he's seeking
to dismantle but many are simply
Argentinian citizens scared of the pain
his radical policies may bring at least
in the short term but whether one
disagrees with his methods or not no one
can deny that his presidency marks one
of the most ambitious attempts at
economic transformation in modern
history and that Javier Malay is truly a
force of nature combining the rigor of
Economist with a passion of a
revolutionary in the fight for freedom
of a Nation he loves Argentina is one of
my favorite countries so I sincerely
hope he
succeeds this interview was conducted
with the president speaking Spanish and
me speaking English with an interpreter
simultaneously
translating we make the episode
available overdubbed and subtitled in
both English and Spanish thanks to our
great friends at 11 Labs if you're
watching on YouTube you can switch
between English and Spanish by clicking
the gear icon selecting audio track and
then choosing language same with the
captions if you're watching on X I'll
post both Spanish and English versions
separately if you're watching on Spotify
or listening elsewhere I'll probably
only post the English version this is a
first time for me doing something like
this in a foreign language it was
challenging but Illuminating I hope to
continue talking to many world leaders
for two to three hours in this way
including Vladimir zalinski Vladimir
Putin naranda Modi and Si jingping I
want to explore who they are how they
think and how they hope to help their
country and Humanity
flourish this is Alex Freedman podcast
to support it please check out our
sponsors in the description and now dear
friends here's jaier
Malay when did you first understand the
value of Freedom especially economic
freedom well actually I came to
understand the ideas of
Freedom as an economic growth specialist
back in the years of 2013 to
2014 I could see that per capita GDP
Statistics over the last 2,000 years of
the Christian
era essentially looked like a hockey
stick indicating that per capita GD P
remained almost constant until around
1800 after which it accelerated sharply
in the same context of that phenomenal
increase in productivity and per capita
GDP the population had multiplied
Sevenfold over the preceding 200 years
so basically in economics that means you
get increasing returns and the presence
of increasing returns implies the exist
of
monopolies concentrated structures and
according to traditional neoclassical
economic theory the presence of
monopolies and concentrated structures
is not a good thing but at the same time
one could see that living standards had
increased
tremendously and that middle inome
people ended up living far better than
Emperors did in the Roman
era and the population had gone from
having 95% of people in extreme poverty
to less than
10% and in that context the question was
how it could be that something that had
lifted so many people out of poverty
that had improved human conditions so
much could be something bad for economic
theory meaning something was not right
so in that context I remember that one
of
the people who worked on my team
suggested I read an article by Murray
Newton rothbart called Monopoly and
competition I remember reading it like
it was
today and after reading it carefully I
said everything I've T about Market
structure in the last 20 years in
courses on microeconomics is
wrong this caused a very strong internal
commotion in me so I called this person
who used to work with me and they Rec
recommended a place to buy Austrian
School of Economics
books and I remember I bought at least
20 or 30 books which I went to pick up
one Saturday
afternoon and when I visited the
bookstore I was fascinated by all the
stuff they had there so I went back the
next day and I started calculating how
much money I needed to pay for my dog's
food that's my four-legged child and how
much I needed to spend on the taxi fair
and food and then with what I have left
I spent all of it on more books and then
I started to read very
intensively and I remember for example
the experience of
reading Human
Action by mises and this was a book that
I didn't know about and I remember that
on the following weekend I started to
read this book right from the first page
and I didn't stop until I finished it
and that was a true revolution in my
head and having the chance to read
Austrian authors like rothbard misis
Hayek H and
jesuso or others like Juan
ramono Philip
buus and Walter block for
example that was very inspirational
and at one point I got the opportunity
to read related to The Works of Alberto
venas Lino and I also had the pleasure
and honor to meet him and today we are
actually
friends so that paved the way for me to
approach the ideas of freedom and
another book that was a very significant
influence and impact on me was the
principles of political economics by
manger it was truly eye openening or
let's say for reading Ogen F these were
things that
really that really challenged all of my
former
thinking I had a vague
idea and poor about the Austrian
School the only thing I had read about
the Austrian school until then had been
money and time a very good book
by Garrison
but but now that I understand a little
bit more about Austrian
economics I know that it was rather
poor this doesn't mean that the book
isn't good but there were a whole lot of
things to read that ended up being truly
fascinating so from that what is now
today and maybe you can talk about the
evolution is your philosophy uh
economics philosophy you've described
yourself as anarcho capitalist Market
Anarchist libertarian that's the ideal
and then maybe in practice in reality
You' said that you're more of a
minarchist so lay it all out what's your
economics philosophy today strictly
speaking I am an anarco
capitalist I despise the state
government I despise violence let us
suppose we take the definition of
liberalism I usually use the definition
of liberalism given by Alberto Venegas
Lino which is very much in line with the
definition of John Lock which
essentially matches the definition by
Alberto benegas Lynch Jr who said that
liberalism is the unrestricted respect
for the life project of others based on
the principle of non-aggression and in
defense of the right to life Liberty and
property so I frame all of the
discussions within those terms and the
fact is that when you get to that notion
I would dare say that you become an
anaro capitalist de
facto and what that describes it is an
idea which represents my ideal world I
mean that is the ideal world now real
life poses a whole lot of
restraints and some of those you can
lift and those restrictions and others
you can't so in real life I am a
minarchist I advocate for minimizing
State size I try to remove as many
regulations as possible in fact that is
what I used to say during my campaign
and let's say that is what I'm now
carrying out we have just carried out
the largest structural reform in
Argentine history it is a structural
reform that is eight times larger than
menim which had been the largest
structural reform in history and we did
that with 15% of the representatives and
10% of the Senators furthermore we have
a deregulation Ministry where basically
every day we eliminate between one and
five regulations on the other hand we
have 3,200 additional structural reforms
pending to the point that the day we
finish all these reforms we will be the
freest country on the planet with the
consequences they have in terms of
well-being think about this when Ireland
started Market reforms just over 40
years ago it was the poorest country in
Europe today its GDP per capita is 50%
higher than that of the United States
so this um I have a current situation
and what I am constantly looking for
whether from my academic works and my
Outreach notes and books is the world we
have
today that every day we are closer that
every day we gain more
freedom because there are some very
interesting things here first I would
like to quote Milton
fredman there is a moment when they do
an interview with Milton fredman and
they ask him about liberals and then he
says that there are three types of
liberals there are the classical
liberals where for example Adam Smith or
Milton fredman himself could fit some
say that Hayek could fit into that
category for me hyek is a
minarchist then you have the minarchist
where you could clearly find in that
place mises
haek one could find in philosophical
terms
noik and basically a Rand and at one
point Milton fredman based on his own
son he says but if you look closely
there are some who are
anarchists let's say probably from my
point of view the person who has been
the greatest inspiration in my life is
essentially Murray Newton
rothbard so
therefore there U there are two
Dimensions one is where I want to go and
the topic is where I stand so the most
important thing is to try each day to
advance further toward that ideal of
aarco capitalism in that
sense sometimes we Face strong and harsh
criticism regarding that ideal Vision I
think that's the Nana fallacy if you
compare yourself against Paradise
everything is horrible and miserable but
you don't live in Paradise you live on
earth
basically what you need to understand is
something called the state condition
let's suppose uh that you don't like
rectangular tables you prefer circular
tables now the reality is I have only a
few
hours until I go and catch my
flight and the table is
rectangular you like a circular table
around one but there isn't one what you
have is a rectangular table so either we
do the interview here or we just can't
do it so what you do you adapt to the
current conditions this is what there is
now so then you have some restrictions
that you can change and others that you
cannot the idea is to modify all the
ones that can be change in the short
term and start working on those that can
be modified in the medium or long term
for
example for example if you really like
round tables perhaps the next interview
we may do do at a round table we're
going to try and solve it but today it's
something that we couldn't possibly
solve so that's basically the idea right
let's say it's about understanding that
some restrictions you can't change
others you can and there are
institutional restrictions
too there are many anarco capitalists
who are dedicated to criticizing and
Incredibly they do so with more violence
towards liberals
and many of them actually criticize me
which truly make no sense because it is
precisely the Nirvana
fallacy
but the reality is that uh look in
Argentina for example the most popular
sport is
soccer when you go to watch an Argentina
mat it is
beautiful the stands are full and
they're all painted with sky blue and
white
colors there is a lot of Joy people sing
songs that are very fun that are very
distinctive very it's very much part of
Argentine folklore so to
speak but you see that beautiful show is
external that is to say it does not
determine the outcome you place the ball
in the middle of the field and no matter
how much people shout the ball doesn't
move the one who who moves the ball and
scores the goals is Messi so what do I
mean if you don't get involved and don't
get into it no you don't do anything so
I mean what do I know is that there are
many liberals Libertarians and anacal
capitalists who are really useless
because all they do is criticize let's
say those of us who want to lead the
world toward the ideas of freedom and
what they don't realize is that power is
a zero some game and if we don't have it
then the left will have it therefore if
you level your harshest criticism at
those in your own ranks you end up being
subservient to socialism
probably and also for instance you have
cases of strong hypocrisy let's say I
have seen cases of
aorists I mean
it's the anarcho capitalists who
criticize rothbart because he said that
you have to get into politics otherwise
the Socialists will
advance and it's interesting because
some of them I have seen them
criticizing proposing
agorism and I remember one of them one
day uh the police showed up and honestly
he was peeing himself so I mean it's
very easy to criticize propose and
suggest but if he was truly such an
Agonist he should have been willing to
endure going to jail however when it was
time to face the consequences of the
idea he was promoting he froze wet his
pants and ended up let's say accepting
all the restrictions because clearly it
was better to be out of jail than in
jail but in doing so he sold out his
ideas
so it seems to me that
no not taking into account the
restrictions of the situation only
serves to be functional to socialism
because all it does is strike against
one's own so you became president 11
months ago can you again describe some
of the actions you took for example you
cut half the number of government
Ministries layoffs removed controls
it'll be interesting to lay out the
first steps and what's next if you allow
me I will first give you a description
of the situation we received and based
on that I will tell you each of the
things we
did when uh we
first took office basically what we
found was that in the first week of
December inflation was rising at a rate
of 1% per day which means
3700%
annually in the first half of December
it had accelerated to
7,5%
annually when you look at wholesale
inflation in December of last year it
was
54% which if annualized would equate to
an inflation rate of
177,000 per
year and in addition
Argentina for the previous 10 years had
not been
growing with a drop in GDP per capita of
approximately
15% and the reality was that nearly 50%
were living in poverty now later I will
get deeper into that
discussion and the reality is that we
had a fiscal deficit which amounted to
15% of GDP
Five Points were in the treasury 10
points were in the central bank which
was endogenous monetary
issuance and the reality is that we also
had interest bearing liabilities at the
Central Bank equivalent to four monetary
bases maturing in one day meaning we
could have quintupled the amount of
money in one day we had peso denominated
maturities amounting to the equivalent
of $90 billion the central bank had
negative net currency foreign reserves
minus $12
billion we had commercial debts in the
Central Bank equivalent to $50
billion there were company dividends
held back amounting to $10
billion therefore if we if we had
instantly opened up you see I say we are
liberal Libertarians we are not liberal
fools that's what some Anarchist
liberals suggested meaning that we
basically open everything on the first
day so in that in that context of course
if we had done that we would have
encountered
hyperinflation therefore that would have
led to the number of poor people being
around
95% and
probably and by December the peronist
party would have organized supermarkets
lootings and would have done all sorts
of things and would have probably been
ousted and by the first part of the year
the peronist would have gone back to
office so to us it was crucial to end
fiscal
deficit one of the things we promised
during the campaign had been to reduce
the number of
Ministries and indeed we reduced
to less than half the number of
Ministries because we went to nine
Ministries today we have
eight we have also laid off a large
number of civil employees today I can
say that we've already dismissed about
50,000 of
them and we we practically don't renew
any contracts unless the positions
are absolutely
necessary at the same time we have
stopped Public Works and we have
eliminated discretionary transfers to
the
provinces we have also diluted public
sector
wages also we have eliminated economic
subsidies by restoring utility rates to
the right
levels and
well well and in that let's say in this
context we achieved fiscal balance as
far as the treasury is concerned
this is very important because in the
last 123 years Argentina had a deficit
for 113 of them and in the 10 years it
did not have a deficit because it was
not paying the debt so that was
absolutely false and they told us it
would be impossible to do that we had
planned to do so within a year and they
said it wasn't possible to adjust by
more than one percentage
point and we achieved fiscal balance
in the month of January that is the
first month of
administration at the same time we also
cut Social plans linked to
intermediation this is very important
because we knew we were going to make a
very tough adjustment and we knew that
this was going to
have a c in Social terms and we knew
that we had to offer support during the
first month I mean the first quarter and
second quarter in
office one of the things we did was to
eliminate what are known as poverty
managers that is
intermediaries basically people have a
card through which they receive
assistance but it happens that they had
to provide a counter service and that
counter service was verified by a group
called The Picos so in that context when
they were going to sign the counter
service took away half of the money so
by removing that payoff they stopped
extorting them sto stealing their money
and with the same amount of money they
receive double the
resources and of course we also provided
an additional
boost so let's say that this is related
to the five adjustment points in the
treasury now what happens as we began to
achieve fiscal balance and no longer
needed to issue money to finance
ourselves and as we also met interest
payments and some Capital
repayments One of the things that
happened is that the debt Market began
to be recreated so we were able to take
debt out of the Central Bank and
transfer it to the treasury where it
should have always been and that meant
an adjustment of approximately 10% of
GDP everyone said this would be
impossible and couldn't be fixed
essentially what we did was Implement a
fiscal adjustment at the central bank
amounting to 10% of
GDP so if you ask me it's clear that we
have not only made the biggest fiscal
adjustment in the history of humanity
because we made a fiscal adjustment of
15 points of the GDP but
also most of that went back to the
people as less sorage as a lower
inflation rate it's true that we
temporarily raised the country tax but
we lowered it in September and now in
December we're going to eliminate it
today for example we also announced that
in December we are eliminating import
taxes in fact in that in that
regard what you have is that we return
to the people 13 and a half points of
GDP because the real tax burden is the
size of the state so while back in
December we were
discussing
hyperinflation today we are discussing
30-year loans in other words all those
resources that the national government
used to take are now back in the private
sector and that's what has allowed it to
be very Dynamic and this has two very
strong
impacts the first one is that if you
look at wholesale inflation it went down
from 54% to 2% so it went down by 27
times it was divided into 27 so we had
inflation at a rate of 177,000 annually
and it's now close to about 28% a
year but it's not only
that you could consider consumer
inflation the latest consumer inflation
rate was
2.7% now it happens that we essentially
due to a matter that is related to the
central bank's balance sheets and also
due to the debt stocks we still have
controls in place and we are eliminating
restrictions day by day now the
interesting thing is that we have a 2%
monthly devaluation standard and there's
International inflation of
course which means that you then have to
subtract two and A2 points from the
inflation observed by the consumer this
indicates that inflation in Argentina
the true inflation not the induced one
but the actual monetary inflation is
0.2% per month at 0.2% per month this
equates to 2.4% annually what I'm saying
is the original discussion was about
whether inflation could reach 177,000
per. now we are bringing inflation down
to levels of
2.5% annually and that is amazing and we
achiev this by considering a number of
factors the first one is that we did not
experience a previous hyperinflation
which would have simplified the process
of implementing a stabilization program
typically when hyperinflation occurs
monetary assets are diluted leading to a
natural restoration of demand and
besides we did not resort to any
expropriation for example before the
convertibility plan which was the most
successful program in Argentina's
history Argentina experienced two
instances of hyperinflation during
alam's Administration inflation reached
5,000% and under menim it was
1,200% additionally there was the bonex
plan under which debt was exchanged on a
compulsory basis in other words what we
did instead was clean up the central
bank balance
sheet so with that we we cleaned up the
central bank's balance sheet we cleared
a loss of $45 billion all
voluntarily and the most amazing thing
is that we did it in just 6 months and
at the same time we have not controlled
prices nor have we fixed the exchange
rate and this is very important all
previous stabilization programs in an
effort to show quick results used to do
this what they would do is before
announcing the plan they would adjust
the rates and once the rates were
adjusted they would launch the plan but
in our case we couldn't afford that
luxury so we had to implement it on the
go and also over the past few months
that is to say companies brought in
rates that covered only about
10% whereas today they cover 80% so you
get the picture just imagine the
adjustment we are making and in that
sense it is also incredible what we have
achieved because if we were to work with
the inflation we have in our country
today considering the exchange rate
situation the figures are even better
than during the convertibility program
which was the most successful economic
program in Argentina's
history and in fact there is an article
called passing the buck which is by
sherard De laera botsi and
irigoin that demonstrates that menem's
first government was the best government
in history and basically it argues two
things in the success of the
stabilization of the convertibility
program so if you take a closer look
when you examine it
carefully when you account for all these
factors our disinflation process is
actually much more genuine and not only
that it's also much deeper we restored
freedoms to argentinians while
simultaneously implementing a structural
reform eight times larger and we
accomplished this with
only with 15% % of the representatives
10% of the Senators and within the first
6 months of government in other words
our deregulation agenda continues daily
and we still have
3,200 structural reforms pending this
will ultimately make Argentina the
freest country in the
world moreover to have a sense of
magnitude the reforms that we already
have made with the executive order 7023
and with the basis law
we have actually jumped 90 places in
terms of economic freedom what this
means is that today Argentina has
institutions similar to those of Germany
France Italy and we obviously want this
to continue and let's say we are going
to surpass no doubt the levels of
economic freedom that Ireland reached in
its best moment and not only that we're
going to exceed the levels of economic
freedom of Australia New Zealand and
Switzerland we are undoubtedly going to
be the free EST country in the world and
this and this means that thanks to what
we've done today we are on a path that
allows us to multiply our per capita GDP
by 2.5 times when you apply the relevant
correction and this of course is
something very interesting because it
implies a huge increase in well-being
and furthermore today the Argentinian
economy is already strongly and
amazingly covering and we can say
analysts hypothesis were suggesting that
next year we would be growing between 5
and
6% today JP Morgan has now corrected or
let's say revised the projections
upwards and besides when we normalized
the price situation the true poverty
rate came up and it was 57% in January
today it is at
46% meaning we lowered poverty by 11
percentage points let's say I mean
it seems truly like a miracle and not
only that but actually not a single job
was lost in the process when it comes to
all of this inflation reduction process
people said that our economy and
economic activity would
collapse and actually when you look at
the
deseasonalized data you see that in
August there was a recovery that took us
back to December levels to December
levels that means that in the year we
made the largest fiscal adjustment in
the history of humanity we will end up
with less inflation fewer poor people
better real wages and additionally a GDP
higher than what we started with and if
you look at it in dollars I can assure
you that the numbers are phenomenal
because basically today the dollar is
below the levels we had when we took
office so the reality is that in all of
this when you take my popularity level
and the government's acceptance levels
today they are above the moment we
assumed office if you know that the
moment of Maximum popularity is when you
take office therefore this means that
far
from resting on our Laurels with this
we're going for more reforms we're going
to deepen the reforms and I tell you we
won't stop until Argentina is the freest
country in the
world furthermore a re recent work by an
Argentinian Economist named Juan Pablo
nicolini was presented at the central
bank's monetary meetings and he works at
the Federal Reserve and it's interesting
because he shows that only on the basis
of what we have done in fiscal matters
it ensures that in the span of 10 years
we can double the GDP per capita meaning
that Argentina could grow at rates of
7% annually which is
very much very much and that has strong
consequences in terms of improving
quality of life reducing poverty
reducing indigence therefore if during
the worst moment our image didn't suffer
and we stayed strong in our ideas now
that everything is working much better
why should we
change on the contrary we are ready to
redouble the BET to redouble our efforts
because we've done things that no one
else has done I will give you an example
there's something that seems trivial but
there's What's called the single Paper
ballot Argentina used to vote with huge
ballots which were very above all very
costly and that
reform it never let's say it wasn't done
because it always harmed the ruling
party so everyone talked about going to
the single Paper ballot but no one did
it when they were in power they didn't
want to implement it because they
preferred to commit fraud or use some
kind of trickery to avoid applying that
rule that makes the election more
competitive well what's interesting we
sent that law and it was
approved what's more now we are
finishing with the open simultaneous and
mandatory primaries because it was a
mechanism by which politics was also
stealing we are eliminating the
financing of political parties if you
look we have reduced the fiscal pressure
by 15 points to the
argentinians we are restoring freedoms
with a deep set of structural and
Regulatory
reforms that is I think
that any sensible
liberal could perceive we are already
delivering a wonderful government in
fact it's the best government in the
history of Argentina if the best had
been that of menim we've already
outpaced him maybe you can explain to me
the metrics of
poverty and unemployment as you said
unemployment went down real unemployment
went down real poverty went
down but even that aside what have been
the most painful impacts of these
radical reforms and how many of them are
required in the short term term to have
a big positive impact in the long term
let's take it step by step all right
that
is we in fact we started to do things
right therefore we did not create
poverty the poverty was an inherited
poverty the point is that what we did
was to reveal
it I'll try to explain it with an
example that I think clarifies what's
happening in
Argentina arent Ina was an economy that
had a total price
controls it had a fiscal deficit which
was financed through money printing just
for you to give you an
idea in the last year Argentina financed
13 points of the gross domestic product
with money printing in other words a
real
disaster so that situation provoke this
artificially demand and puts pressure on
prices the issue is that price controls
are applied additionally over the prices
that they enter the price index with
which inflation was I'm not saying they
were lying about it it was
distorted and since Argentina measures
poverty and indigence by income line
then what
happens that distorted the true levels
of poverty of course but that's not the
only effect I mean let's say the real
poverty levels were higher quite a bit
higher than those shown by the previous
government which showed them at 41% and
also did so on a six-monthly basis so if
you let's say have a growing Trend they
are actually leaving you a bomb and you
don't see it because let's say basically
the indicator was
measured with a delayed form but not
only that imagine that you are also
given
you are in the middle of an
island
alone and they give you 1 million
dollars what can you do with
that you cannot do anything because you
cannot buy anything it's the same as if
someone tells you that the price of
glasses is
$10 but when you want to buy it it's not
available actually there's a joke told
by an Argentinian Professor named Juan
car de Pablo who says that a man goes to
a Bazar and asks for a vas then he says
to him well I want that vas how much
would you charge me then he says
$5,000 oh okay $5,000 but why $5,000 if
across the street it's 1,000 he says
well go buy it across the street for a
th000 ah there's none for a th000 well
then here when there's more it'll also
cost a th000 in other words prices at
which they are available so so what
happens when you were faced with that
situation the supermarket shelves were
empty so what was the point of having a
price at which you couldn't buy anything
you left those prices the shelves were
empty so the statistics showed that you
were much better but the reality is you
couldn't buy anything you couldn't make
it happen so if you left the situation
as it was people were going to starve
because they couldn't buy anything yes
they had a certain amount of money that
could supposedly buy certain Goods but
those goods were not
available what the what is the only
thing you can do to save people make the
prices transparent and allow products to
reappear well when you make the prices
transparent you also make transparent
the cost of the basic food basket and
the total basic basket meaning the
poverty line Sorry the indigence line
and the poverty line respectively and
when you do that clearly you will see a
jump in poverty that brought poverty up
to 57 % now Argentina found its activity
floor in the month of April from that
moment Argentina began to invent a
cyclical recovery real wages have been
growing every month above inflation
therefore nominal wages are beating
inflation in fact we are already at
levels similar to those we had in
November the same goes for pensions
moreover Also let's say there is a
rebound in activ due to the recovery of
the stock cycle therefore this is also
contributing to more and better paid
jobs in fact this is so strong and
evident that the wages growing the most
are in the informal sector this means
that poverty and extreme poverty are
decreasing much faster than we imagined
but not only that by eliminating
inflation you remove the inflationary
tax but the real burden is the fiscal
deficit which was 15 points of the GDP
okay we temporarily raised the country
tax now we lower it but we return that
to the argentinians we gave back 15
points of the
GDP not only that but also when you
eliminate inflation you remove the
Distortion of relative prices therefore
the allocation of resources is much
better not only that but also with a
strong fiscal adjustment we made we have
reduced the country risk from 3,000
basis points to 770
today fit raised Argentina's rating to
Triple C
so what do I mean that translates into a
lower country risk and interest rates
and that generates an increase in
investment also generates an increase in
consumption in other words the
Argentinian economy is currently in an
absolutely flourishing moment and how is
that sustained in the long term with
structural reforms which we Implement
daily deregulating the economy and
introducing new laws that free
argentinians from the from the many
oppressive measures that have burdened
it over the past 100
years you've spoken about the cast The
corrupt political establishment so
there's a lot of powerful people and
groups that are against your ideas what
does it
take to fight when so much Powers
against
you look we have fought against
corruption like never before in
Argentina in fact when we took office
for example there were about 900
roadblocks per year that is people who
made a habit of blocking the streets
they prevented free
movement and besides they were given
social plans and they were given a lot
of money if you remember when I started
by explaining the cuts one of the things
I said was that we removed the middlemen
of poverty
in other words the managers of poverty
those who lived by stealing from the
poor well that is a huge source of
corruption in fact when we did
that two days later one of the most
renowned and influential peteros called
for a demonstration he claimed that
50,000 people would attend because he
was actually expecting 100,000 so he
wanted to show case it as a
success and so then let's say with the
decision made in human capital to cut
their funding the anti- blockade
protocol was also enacted where those
who blocked the streets wouldn't receive
welfare benefits and those who broke the
law would go to
jail all of
that and also we were informing this
through Transportation channels well in
that March they expected to have 100,000
people there and actually it turned out
to be 3,000
people and from that point on they
didn't block the streets anymore we also
evidently put an end to that
corruption one of the things that also
generated a lot of corruption was Public
Works another thing that led to
significant acts of corruption were the
discretionary transfers to provinces in
general these transfers were made to the
provinces with accounting as obscure as
possible so the national government in
collusion with the governors let's say
the money ended up being used for other
things not only that with which we have
already done many things furthermore the
ministry of human capital is always
filing complaints in court not in the
media in
court acts of corruption like never
before in Argentine history not only
that but also in terms of condemning
corruption that is we have done for
example two days ago it was
condemned Christina Fernandez de Kushner
got a sentence for corruption I mean due
to corruption and the next day that is
yesterday we took away their privileged
pensions at the same time we are for
example we have discovered that kirner
is used disability pensions for acts of
corruption for example there is a city
that has more disability pensions than
people in other words to give you an
idea of the things being done in
Argentina and also in Argentina we have
restored freedom to the Judiciary we do
not pressure the
Judiciary and this is so true that
during my government Not only was
Christina Fernandez tesna convicted but
also the two ter attacks carried out by
Iran were
condemned so if there is a government
that is truly fighting against
corruption it is us not only that but
also with each
deregulation it is a privilege that we
take away either from a politician a
prary company or a power
group that is also very
powerful no one in Argentina has ever
fought against corruption the way we
have in fact I will move on to something
that is deeply corrupt and one of my
great
battles the corruption of the media in
social
media that is to say I remov the
official advertising that's why you will
see that even though we generate
wonderful
news every week in large quantity the
media speak terribly
in other words they demand to have a
monopoly on the microphone that is they
are entitled to insult hurt offend and
they don't want anyone to bother them
and they expect me not to even respond
that's why a large part of Journalism in
Argentina hates the X Network and that's
why we the liberal Libertarians love the
X Network because we can all say what we
want however let's say these supposed
journalists who defend freedom of
expression actually what they want is to
censor the ideas they don't like and of
course because they are leftists because
they are wokes because they can't stand
the competition because if they had to
fight face to face hand to hand on a
Level Playing Field when it comes to
ideas they would lose because they were
a failure in the economic social and
cultural aspects and also we must not
forget that those murderers called
socialist killed 150 million people so
they clearly cannot fight on equal terms
therefore they demand that social
networks have censorship and that the
truth cannot be told to them because
when you tell a socialist the truth they
cry claiming it's hate speech no it's
not hate speech it's that you are
useless people who have
ruined the planet they have made the
planet much worse and fortunately today
thanks to social media especially due to
the enormous and brave work of Elon Musk
and the role of
Twitter today X right allows information
to flow which makes it possible let's
say to expose politicians and also
expose the media and that's why
journalists in Argentina are so violent
why because before they could for
instance a journalist went and for
example he would go to a person and he
would throw a folder at them and say if
you don't give me x amount of money I am
going to publish all of this and tarnish
your reputation and I know for a fact a
case of a journalist who carried out
this extortion twice to a businessman
that businessman told him that he wasn't
going to pay and evidently the
journalist did it obviously they went to
court there was a trial and that
journalist lost both
times but that process is very slow and
in the meantime they smeared so since
the justice system takes a long time so
what is the problem the problem is that
in the meantime your life got dired so
why can journalists do all this well
that's why they dislike X they dislike
social media they dislike the new form
of communication because they took away
their Monopoly over the microphone and
by taking away the Monopoly over the
microphone it removed the economic
benefits of extortion so clearly that's
another battle I'm fighting you read a
newspaper in Argentina and 85% of what
you read is a
lie that is to say the fundamental
characteristic of most journalists not
all but the vast majority of journalists
in Argentina with some honorable
exceptions is that they are liars
slanderers and
defamers and if the Monopoly they demand
were still in place that they want to
Reign again I have no doubt that they
would demand money in exchange for
silence because that's what they are
they are extortionists they are thieves
they are
corrupt and then of course obviously
when you take away a privilege from a
sector they get upset well welcome to
Freedom so you're not only fighting for
economic freedom you're fighting for
freedom of speech exactly I fight for
freedom in all aspects of
life that is to say one of the things
that seems most interesting to
me is that uh when the Berlin Wall
fell it's true that officially fell in
the year
1989 but the reality is that the wall or
socialism fell in the Year
1961 when they had to build the wall I
mean they built it because people were
leaving communist Germany for capitalist
Germany they realized that those on the
western side were much better
off and of course to prevent people from
leaving they put what a wonderful system
right so I mean they had to trap people
they couldn't let them go I mean these
are such wonderful ideas that they had
to apply them at gunpoint it's quite
well it's no coincidence that they
killed 150 million human beings so what
happened then the official fall of the
wall in the year 1989
made it clear that socialism had
failed in that context the
Socialists they moved the discussion of
class struggle in
economics and took it to other areas so
for example
Socialism or what is of the 21st century
or cultural Marxism or postm Marxism
whatever definition you want is to take
class struggle
to different aspects of life for example
one of the aspects of life where you
let's say have this is in gender
ideology I mean it's incredible because
the first ones to defend equality before
the law were the Liberals the first to
defend women's rights were the Liberals
Jeremy Bentham in the year 1750 was the
first to demand equality before the law
for women I mean the cause of equality
equality before the law for women and
equality of Rights the first ones who
advocated for this were the Liberals did
you know
however what does the left do they just
go on to radicalize it and then it moves
to what is called female chauvinism
female chauvinism is let's say the fight
against males and then I mean how do
they do it they do it by assigning
rights but when you assign a right
someone has to pay for it and that has
con consquences and in general let's say
this always
happens the consequences are that the
results are worse than what you had
before I mean uh in any state
intervention the subsequent
result is often worse than what you
originally had so that's one thing and
not only that but the other side of this
is the Environmental agenda which sets
man against nature involving all aspects
of environment mentalism and everything
related to climate
change in other words they can't stand
any serious discussion therefore all
environmental policies are nothing more
than an excuse to collect taxes so that
a group of parasitic bureaucrats can
live at the expense of others and
finance Sinister ideas where the most
Sinister idea of all is that there is no
room for everyone on planet Earth that
is an idea that failed with malus at the
beginning of the 19th century a
murderous idea that was also applied by
the Egyptians against the Jews and this
is famously recorded in the book of
shamot or
Exodus or for example another thing is
black lives matter that is black people
against white people or indigenous
people against the established
communities or I mean everything related
to LGBT agendas definitely these are
some of the ways in
which you know socialism extended the
class struggle into other aspects of
society creating divisions and fostering
deceit with the sole purpose of
absorbing taxes I mean what was the
ministry of women in Argentina doing did
it manage to reduce a single femicide no
none at all the number of femicides
exploded just the same in fact the most
feminist president in Argentine History
Mr Alberto Fernand this used to beat his
wife that is such a strange feminist I
mean well so within the ranks of
feminists let's say you will essentially
find the largest number of rapists and
women
beaters and it's
um quite interesting what they do their
hypocrisy is truly
striking it's not just about that though
I
mean the battle is on three fronts
you have the economic
front which is free enterprise
capitalism then we have the political
level currently the system that the
world has designed is a republican
liberal democracy with checks and
balances and I mean at the cultural
battle level notice that socialism has
been very successful in the cultural
battle
it has been very successful politically
because it was able to translate that
political battle in winning many
elections but why is it falling apart
why because it produces misery and
because the economic system is a
disaster so people eventually realize
that it is making things worse for
them liberal Libertarians are very good
when it comes to
economics yes and those good economic
results can actually lead
well uh to the generation of solid
political processes but what happened
the Liberals neglected the cultural
battle much of the blame was placed on
fukuyama when he said this is the end of
history no it was not the end of History
because the following year in 1990 the
Socialist gathered at the S Paulo forum
and based on the ideas of grami designed
a strategy to infiltrate the media
culture and education which ended up
changing the entire discour
course and they established that what
they said was politically correct and
that any idea outside of it was to be
considered reactionary and had to be
censored or even persecuted and they
claimed to be the ones defending Freedom
even though they were the ones
persecuting people it's the same with
journalists who get upset with Twitter
they say they defend freedom but can't
stand it when those who think
differently speak is that freedom yes
for the but not for those who think
differently that's not Freedom that's
fascism
then what do we say then we must fight
on the economic front and I believe we
are implementing an extremely successful
economic program that is being
recognized worldwide in fact um the
other night the
president-elect Donald Trump indeed gave
recognition for the achievements we are
having in Argentina and the speed at
which we have done it at the same time
you have to fight the political battle
because well soccer matches are not won
by shouting from the stands they are won
by playing on the field but that alone
is not enough because you have to let's
say you need to convey to
society the values of capitalism the
free market what liberalism is the value
of Freedom right and when you succeed in
that then we will indeed be able to
advance steadily if you don't fight the
cultural battle what happened in Chile
will happen to you they had economic
success it was let's say sustained over
time but at some point it collapsed why
did it collapse because they hadn't
fought the cultural battle then
socialism little by little took control
of institutions in education and the
media so they took over the media and
culture and on that basis they attacked
and broke up the system
and then they found themselves with
increasing doses of socialism and the
only thing socialism generates is
poverty therefore what you must keep in
mind is that you have to fight the
battles on all
fronts and if you don't keep that in
mind I can tell you are headed towards
collapse like you said in this fight
against corruption you are challenging
some very powerful people a powerful
establishment
are you ever afraid for your
life potential
assassinations no tell me what good is
it to live
life I mean in
slavery look there is a song um by a
Spanish singer called Nino
Bravo just to be clear he has already
left this Earth so we can say he has
passed on to the Beyond
the song is called
lib and the song it tells the story of
Peter feter an 18-year-old
boy who when the separation was
made and I mean uh the construction of
the Berlin Wall begins his family ends
up on the western side and he
accidentally ends up on the Eastern
side and for a whole year he plans
his escape to the western side right and
in that context when he tries to escape
he gets
murdered so really what is the point of
life if it's not in Freedom
right I mean what is the point of living
without fighting for your
values if I am willing to give my life
for my values then what is the point of
living without Freedom look can I tell
you something interesting that happened
to me here in the United
States I let's say back in the year
1998 I came to the United States um to
take a series of courses to improve my
English which I never use in formal
terms because as president as you can
imagine if I make a mistake I can create
a serious
situation
fortunately I have an interpreter who is
a
Superstar and if I make a mistake even
in Spanish He corrects me in the version
of the other
language and so back then in that year I
went to San
Francisco and I visited
alcad you're young
but uh I mean the visit was an audio
tour you got a Walkman and you would
choose the different tracks listen to
the
story the most interesting thing is that
the alcatra store ended in the
recreation yard where the basketball
court exercise areas and all
recreational facilities were located so
anyone would have thought that this was
the best part of
alcross and yet what they said in the
guide was that that was the hardest part
for the
inmates why because I mean that
Recreation Area in particular is built
um in front of the San Francisco Bay so
the inmates could all see how San
Francisco continued to build up and
evolve and develop every day while they
were locked up in there they couldn't
take part in that they were confined in
that prison and that made them fully
aware of the value of
Freedom
so in my experience for me theight Fight
For Freedom is is Relentless okay I mean
my greatest hero in all of human history
is
Moses the feet of Moses is like one
person alone with his brother
Aaron both confronting the combined
forces
of the United
States China and Russia together and it
was Moses who said to ramsy let my
people
go well rames
resisted and the forces of Heaven ran
him
over but what I mean
is I don't see any other possible way to
live other than with freedom and I would
always fight for full freedom and I
would be at the Forefront of this
cause I mean it's a cause
that I'm going to die with my boots on I
mean I'm not going to make do with
living any other way other than with
freedom I will fight everything I'm
going to fight as much as it
takes uh at least that's the way I feel
so what good is it to be alive if you're
confined what good is it to be alive if
you're not free it's no
good what good was it for Peter
fetcher to be
alive in communist
Germany well at
least he had a moment of Happiness while
he tried to escape
another guy who fights for freedom
freedom of speech in this case is your
new friend Elon Musk what do you admire
and what have you learned from your
interactions with Elon I
have a huge admiration for Elon
Musk he is
a he is an absolutely unconventional
person he's a great Fighter for the
ideas of Freedom what he has done on
Twitter now known as X
and how he
is helping
the the world
nowadays to wake up once and for all and
become aware of the Socialist virus the
woke virus that in
itself makes him a hero in the history
of
humanity but it's not just
that one of the things that happened to
me is
that when I went to first talk to him I
thought uh I was going to meet a
successful businessman and that I would
have a typical successful businessman
conversation who understands business
and that some of his businesses some of
his business slightly more
exotic
but that's the kind of talk you would
expect to have and business
people are truly admirable right because
they are true benefactors of
society but they're usually very much
focused on their own
business and one of the things that
really really shocked
me when I met Elon
Musk we had scheduled a meeting for um
no more than 50
minutes the first time we were in the
meeting for a little over 45 minutes
because because he was about to miss his
flight so obviously if someone as
important as him doesn't fly as planned
it has to be rescheduled and he loses a
lot of hours imagine every minute is
very
valuable
and and one of the things that happened
was
that basically he brought up the topic
of
demography and we started discussing
demographics and growth I never imagine
that I would end up discussing
demographics and growth with him you
know and another very fun uh thing was
that um something funny he said to me
was that since we shared our vision
regarding demographic issues uh and the
need to populate the planet he asked me
now what about you when are you going to
move in that direction I when I I said
oh look I have five children and he said
well the four-legged ones don't count
that was uh the first the first meeting
I had with Elon Musk the second um the
second meeting
was
when here at the universities we
started seeing anti-semitic
demonstrations where basically
Palestinian flags were displayed and
Jews were harassed and
persecuted and uh at that moment when we
had that second meeting
he showed himself to be very deeply
involved with that and brought up the
issue of the cultural battle so I
mean it's not quite conventional even in
the political
field
uh I during our last talk which lasted
for about two and a half hours
right one of the things we talked about
was freedom and what was at stake for
the United States in this in this
election uh
therefore he is a person you know
honestly uh I can say he is well above
average I
mean a person of unconventional
intelligence right and also he is very
Charming so I mean again I have a great
admiration for him and I really interact
very closely with him he is very
interested in what our ministry of D
regulation is doing which seeks to
remove
regulations but at the same time he
works with another person who is also
interested in the chainsaw approach and
so I'm very
pleased because they are going to try
and replicate the model we are
implementing in Argentina and also uh
Donald Trump himself is very enthus itic
about this so and anything in the way of
reducing regulations and cutting public
spending and taking government out of
the equation means more freedom for the
people so I'm very pleased with what's
going on and with Trump's Victory
because the United States will be better
off Argentina is going to be better too
and the whole world is going to be
better off today the world is a much
better place than it was just a few days
ago like you said Elon and vas Swami are
heading the Doge Department of
government efficiency so from your
experience this year as president of
Argentina and every chainsaw economic
policies that you've implemented what
advice would you give to Elon and VC
about how to do it in the United States
just cut to the chase cut to the chase
simple as that I'll tell you a story and
you're going to love
it currently in AR artina due to to the
political balance we've achieved we have
had certain powers delegated from
Congress to the executive branch and
therefore we can resolve it by
decree that the regulation Minister
Federico Stena in his ministry shows a
counter that displ in front of everyone
there he displaced the number of days
all
right during which the delegated powers
will continue to be
valid therefore he has a whole the
regulation
division also a public spending cut
Division and government structure
reduction
Division and he also has an elite core
that's cleaning up all of the laws that
hinder the economic system and
progress and every day he removes
between one and five economic
restrictions so my advice would be for
them to go all the way to push it to the
very
limit and do not give up do not let down
their guard furthermore that agenda does
not have political purpose because at
the end of the day you are removing
privileges of course there will be
people complaining but those are people
these are people who are losing
privileges so they will have to explain
to society why they are keeping those
Privileges and that is quite
uncomfortable you've spoken with Donald
Trump allegedly he called you his
favorite President what did you discuss
and maybe again what do you admire about
President Trump and uh what do you learn
from him there are several things that
I I admire about President
Trump the first is that he
probably I think he's provided ample
proof of this in his first presidency
he understands the nature of the
cultural
battle he has openly confronted
socialism his speeches openly Target
socialism he perfectly understands the
woke
virus and that that is uh you
know of Great Value because it means
understanding what it's all about
another thing I truly admire about him
is his courage in
fact thankfully thank goodness he didn't
get assassinated or
killed but it was by a small chance
occurrence that could have killed him
just because he moved at the right
moment and yet that didn't intimidate
him and he went on and in
fact during his first campaign and in
this one as well in the second one and
third
one they criticized him insulted him
offended him said awful things about him
made up all sorts of horrible stories
about him in that respect I can say I
deeply relate because probably no one in
our history has had such a Negative
campaign from all the media like they
did to me but let's say they were quite
similar this is why it's so interesting
and I was so deeply moved when last
night I also got to meet Sylvester
Stallone you
know because uh Sylvester Stallone talks
about well how important is that no
matter how hard they hit you and keep on
hitting you all the time despite all
that you keep going on and on and
on what I'm trying to say
is that many of the uh
many so many of Sylvester Stallone's
approaches are truly inspirational don't
you think so imagine I'm about to give
the speech and I see Sylvester Stallone
and Sylvester Stallone knows me it was
truly insane I had to pinch myself I
mean this can't be true and besides
well the people were wonderful with me
last night they've been wonderful today
I've taken hundreds of selfies I'm I
mean it's truly
been I would say it's been my break let
me say after almost a year in office and
having to face all sorts of media
torture because of because the
journalists who have vested interests
and are corrupt are professional
torturers yes because they invade your
personal life your family and your
privacy let me tell you something to
show you the kind of garbage the media
in Argentina can do they sent three
drones to spy on me at my presidential
residence to spy on me do you think
that's
right exactly but that kind of thing
happens in Argentina not to mention the
many lies and horrible things they say I
for instance remember that time when my
father was
hospitalized my father is a man of a
really strong character who has
had two heart surgeries all
right and one day a journal was saying
all sorts of lies about my
father my father was hospitalized and
well and he almost died of a heart
attack so that kind of thing is what
journalism and the Press do in Argentina
so they start to attack your private
life your mother your father your sister
even my dogs that I absolutely adore
they are the most wonderful beings in
the universe they even Target my
four-legged
children so imagine that I've been in
office for nearly a year a year as
president and since they can't criticize
my management except by lying and
distorting the
numbers they meddle with all these
things things they have been doing all
the time since the year
2021 when I officially entered
politics
So and I've seen what they've done to
Trump so that also makes me relate a lot
to him because he's a true warrior he's
truly he's a viking he's a viking he's
literally a
viking I mean he is someone I
admire for how he has kept fighting in
the face of adversity even Against All
Odds and still he managed to
win
amazing and well uh and that's why I can
relate that much and I've also seen how
he's been unfairly criticized like when
he was accused of protectionism or when
he wanted to discuss some matters within
the context of public debate regarding
the design of monetary policy as regards
the fed and uh basically they have
accused him of things I mean isn't he
entitled to give an opinion as a
president I mean any citizen could give
their opinion even more so a president
why is it important to you that
Argentina has a close relationship with
the United
States well to us that is truly
important
okay you know because we've decided to
be geopolitical allies of the United
States ever since our
campaign that our allies we have decided
that our allies will be the United
States and Israel
because they basically represent the
ideas of the Western World they
represent the free world that is to say
what we would call today let's say a
liberal
democracy
okay by confronting the autocrats and in
that sense that is the geopolitical
alignment moreover in our campaign we
were very very clear on three main
points one the economic pillar we talked
about cutting public spend
and I would make my appearances with a
chainsaw we talked about economic
freedom D regulation that is and I
talked about a competition of currencies
and people you know obviously were
interested in the dollar so it was
obvious that the economic policy was
clear all right and Not only was it
clear but we are also fulfilling it that
is the first point second was our policy
on security the idea being to fight
crime I mean relentlessly as well as
security no mercy right and in fact in
Argentina there are no more
roadblocks which they said were
impossible to end not only that we have
strengthened the security forces and
also our armed forces and we are waging
a tough battle against drug trafficking
and Narco terrorism therefore we are
also strongly fulfilling that notice
that these two points which were the
main concerns they were the biggest
concern of
argentinians when we took office are now
in fifth and sixth place today the
problem for argentinians is corruption
whether there is unemployment if there
is poverty but they don't mention
inflation and insecurity anymore and
besides a third point that I made clear
was that I would align with the United
States and Israel
internationally and you know at my
campaign rallies there would be groups
that would come along with fly of
Israel so it's clear that our
International policy approach was always
very clear and uh this is something I
State during my speeches when I talk
about the values of the West and the
civilization of the West in fact
yesterday and even more so today during
my speeches I talked about how the
different Greek groups or tribes go
together to confront the
Persians that is to say it seemed that
from that time 500 years before Christ
until today that struggle continues
right um but well so of
course we're all in we are betting on
the United States becoming once
again a leader in the
west we needed someone to come back to
make America great again
and and that as part of that process
being a commercial Ally is also a great
idea so we would really like to move
forward and deepen our trade
ties and our investment ties you know
and well we would also like to be part
of the NATO as well do you think it's
still possible one of the radical ideas
you had be as you were running for
president was to
dollarize uh the Argentine economy do
you think that's still a good idea are
you still thinking about that let's see
let's break it down let's say
I if you review all all my statements I
talk about currency
competition I'm not strictly talking
about
dollarization I'm talking about currency
competition and eliminating the central
bank if people later decide to embrace
the dollar that is their choice
ultimately in the model I propose what
happens is the formation of a currency
basket tailored to the needs of
individuals but I won't avoid the
discussion today there is currency
competition if for instance today in
Argentina you want to make transactions
in any currency you can do it and it's
allowed today there is currency
competition the other thing we talk
about is the concept of let's suppose we
were discussing dollarization we talk
about endogenous
dollarization the first point is that
you need to clean up the central bank we
had to deal with the issue of the cirra
that is the central bank's commercial
debt which was $50 billion we still have
to resolve the dividend problem of $10
billion and in the meantime we did a
write off and cleaned up the central
bank's balance sheet by $45 billion so
you can't just close the central bank if
it is bankrupt because you need to
redeem the whole Central Bank debt which
is about the issuing of money and the
interest bearing liabilities so once we
finished with the interest bearing
liabilities it'll leave us with the
monetary
base therefore today we have a regime
where the amount of money is fixed the
monetary base is not growing and as
demand for money increases since people
can use dollars they don't need to go
and sell the dollars and make the PES so
appreciate but they can do transactions
in dollars so as the economy grows you
will have a greater share of dollars
relative to pesos and at some point the
amount of pesos compared to the dollars
will be so huge relatively the closing
down the central bank will be done
easily which means this is
working of course if you were to give me
the money right now I would go ahead and
dollarize i' have no problem with that
for example I did have a proposal for
this and this could have worked because
the bonds because the largest creditor
of the Argentine treasury is the central
bank but Central Bank Bond were trading
at 20 cents if I had sold those bonds at
20 cents and nowadays they are trading
between 60 and
70 with the whole bunch of Neanderthals
that are the
opposition Who besides being ignorant in
economics also have bad
intentions I would be in jail today let
me ask you a very important difficult
question I'm a huge fan have been my
whole life of Diego mardona and Messi so
C you is the greatest football player of
all time the way I see it I have seen
Maradona play all right
I saw Maradona play in the past I used
to watch him and I saw him during his
last year at Argentino Juniors before
boka
juniors in the Year 1980 and I saw him
in 81 playing for bokeh I saw him play
in the youth selection in Japan in
1979 I truly have immensely
enjoyed the talent of
Maradona but without a doubt the best
soccer player of all time not just from
Argentina of all time even better than p
is Messi of course there is an article
which is quite old already now titled
Messi is
impossible and it looks at all of
the positions a soccer player plays
in that is all positions a soccer player
can play in from Midfield forward
okay and the most incredible thing is
that
Messi is the best in each of those
positions you can be the best in one or
two positions you see Cristiano Ronaldo
for example was very good in two areas
of the game so much so that he was
almost like Messi but he didn't take
part in the
rest however Messi is the best one in
all respects but at that time of course
nowadays you know he is an older player
right
and and I'm not sure whether he can
still keep that performance on all
fronts but uh but honestly I have never
in my life seen a player like Messi I
have never seen no one like him for real
if you look at the number of goals he
scored I correct that considering the
goal average in the days of B compared
to Messi's Golden Era and his career now
the number of equivalent goals is much
greater than that of P therefore without
a doubt Mai is the greatest soccer
player of all time of all time No One
Compares to him but it's not just the
numbers or the World Cup
win it's the moments of Genius on the
field Messi is unlike any other in that
way Messi does things that seem
technically impossible they seem
physically
impossible the moves he makes don't
respect human logic it's like watching
Usain Bolt run it doesn't feel
possible he moves in a way that doesn't
respect human logic am I right did you
watch the 1986 World Cup with mardona
with the with the hand of God with the
the game against England what was that
like oh yes I do remember that very
well uh we watched it in the home of uh
of my godfather and saw how he did his
Gambit and dodged the team the England
team that was
truly it was
absolutely absolutely Indescribable
there's no way to put it into
words it's as if I asked you to describe
for
me the love you have for your partner
you can't do that right I mean it's
something wonderful you can't describe
it you cannot put it into words there
are things where
words I mean you
know just seem to fail am I right I
really think that uh there are times
when
humans or some human
hum not all of them actually some humans
have the
privilege of being able to vibrate
closer to
God some Pini Aras for example when you
listen to them when you listen
to the famous Arya from londin or the
famous Arya from Giani shii I mean you
get the feeling that he was getting s
dictated by God how can you put that
into words you can't there's no way you
do that I mean those moments where we
humans
are that we have the privilege I say it
as human beings right because I mean I'm
speaking from that
perspective okay I say this only as an
admirer some human beings have the
ability to vibrate so close to God that
you can't describe it you can only enjoy
it
this is why in Judaism they don't use
the name of God of the
Creator because how could you put in
words something like that and I believe
those are times when us humans connect
closer to the Creator and create
things unique things you cannot describe
them there are no words to describe that
the only thing you can do is enjoy it
and be thankful that you can WI
it you were a great footballer yourself
in your youth you were a goalkeeper many
people would say that's the toughest and
the most important position in football
maybe you can speak about that
experience and in general what's harder
being a goalkeeper or a
president lovely
question well indeed I used to be a
goalkeeper but I'm not so sure about
whether I was any good
but
um but you know the experience of having
been a goalkeeper is very
valuable first the goalkeeper is the
only player that can use their hands in
a certain sector of the pitch in the
area the other thing is that uh he's
also the only player who dresses
differently
right moreover their training is a
solitary
one and the most
important I mean it is the very
climax the goal
right when the goal is called by their
team everyone is celebrating on the
other side and the goalkeeper is on his
own
and and at the same time he is the one
who suffers the most when a goal is
scored because he gets the direct impact
in fact when the goalkeeper makes a
mistake it's an own
goal imagine a teammate scores a
wonderful goal like the one Maradona did
it's marvelous and that's just one goal
and imagine the goalkeeper picks up the
ball and then if they bring it into the
area
wrongly it's like two goals it's a
complete lack of
proportion so therefore
and this in my opinion makes goalkeepers
have a very strong temperament right
they are used to being alone and power
is precisely that because when you make
decisions you are on your
own and uh and not just that but also
so when you have a
responsibility like that of a president
when you make a decision it has an
impact on millions of
people so just like goalkeepers if you
make a mistake and score an own goal and
in this
context it's negative consequences for
millions of
people therefore that has been part of
the University of life that has given me
the tools to be president today that is
my training in economics my training in
liberalism having been a goalkeeper and
also having had a very tough
childhood how hard is it what's been the
personal toll of carrying the hope of a
Nation on your
shoulders well you know being defamed
insulted and attacked every single
day but
uh but again uh there's no point in life
if it's not with freedom so like
Sylvester P Stallone once said the
secret to life is to carry on in spite
of the blows you get the punches you
take and fortunately we have been able
to carry on in spite of the blows both
coming at us from in front and from
behind our backs because it'd have been
more honest if we had been attacked
directly but well you know in
Argentina uh politics and the mass media
they do love to attack behind your
back what role has God played in your
life and who is
god well Faith I'd say has
been a very fundamental element you
know
and especially in recent times during
which I've become actively involved
particularly in the teachings of Judaism
and in in the study of uh of the
Torah uh this has given me a
huge let's say a huge background to face
the many adversities which I've
encountered and had to overcome in the
last few years and as to who God is he's
the Creator the
maker I call him the one
what is a better guide for Humanity the
Invisible Hand of the market or the hand
of God they're perfectly in
sync well enough again going back to
your youth uh you are a lead singer in a
rock band who is the greatest rock star
of all time okay well the way I see
it the most amazing rock singer in
history of mankind was definitely Elvis
Presley
and my favorite band is the Rolling
Stones so I also greatly admire MC
Jagger you know and I still have this
dream of getting to meet him in person
how fun would it be to play together
with the with the
stones that would be a big big
dream
uh don't get my hopes up because I set
goals and then I go in a achieve them
well I'm close friends with a band that
opens for the stones so I would love to
see this happen oh well that would be
great or we could also watch the whole
concert from the
stage I mean I can't keep ruining the
rolling stones' music I already had a
tribute band and did quite a lot of
damage to the music uh how much are your
Rockstar Roots Define your approach to
politics to
life do you see yourself as a kind of
showman in part of
course absolutely my idea is that when
you
attend uh when you attend one of our
events it feels like going to a Rolling
Stones
concert in fact in one of my most recent
performances at Luna Park I even had the
pleasure of singing in front of 10,000
people it's on YouTube no sorry not on
YouTube
it's on my Instagram
feed at that event I sang a song called
Panic show and the song starts by saying
hi everybody I am the
lion your intensity and passion have
earned you the nickname El Loco the
madman do you think some Madness is
necessary to challenge the powerful
establishment well maybe it's a matter
of perspective right it could be the
other way around that everyone else is
Crazy by living in a way contrary to the
ideas of freedom and so maybe the same
person who wants to fix that is then
considered a
Madman
anyway the nickname doesn't bother me at
all in fact I even enjoy it because I've
been called like that since I was 10
years old
so it's not something that particularly
bothers me you know because uh it's a
nickname that well it's uh it has been
used for many years but actually if I
present to you the case of Son Martin
when he said he was going to cross the
Andes to liberate not only
Argentina not only our country but also
Chile and Peru and people called him
crazy imagine if you had tried and
spoken with I don't know with
Michelangelo you would have called him
crazy too or if had talked
to I don't know hundreds of people who
have changed the world surely they would
have thought that Einstein was crazy and
so on the list would be infinite so what
is the
difference between a mad man and a
genius
success let me ask you about the
market it's so
interesting from your view of the world
how powerful the market is at figuring
out what's best for society why do you
think the market works so well as a
guide for
Humanity one must first understand what
the market
is simply put the market is a process of
voluntary exchange where individuals
cooperate through the transfer of
property
rights in
which private property is
upheld this this is the
system that drives the allocation of
resources in essence socialism and this
is what mises condemns in his book
socialism shows is that uh without
private
property prices cease to exist and
therefore resources are diverted why
don't you think it's the same to make a
road of asphalt or gold why not make it
of gold because you have an
understanding of economic calculation
you have an idea of prices your mind so
in this context if there is no private
property there are no prices and as a
result the free market capitalism you
know is the best mechanism ever
developed by humankind for resource
allocation this also implies that
markets must be free free from State
intervention because when the state
intervenes it creates interference
and uh markets need to allow free entry
and exit what we call
competition however it's better to
understand
competition in the sense described by
Israel kersner one of the foremost
figures of the Austrian School or in the
neoclassical framework as William Bowl
understood it which was the concept of
free entry and exit in so-called
contestable markets and also let's talk
about what pertains to the the division
of labor and social cooperation you know
the most wonderful thing about
capitalism is that you can only be
successful by serving others with better
quality Goods at a better price if you
are
successful in the free market capitalism
you are a hero you are a social
benefactor you are a Prosperity machine
so the better you do you
know the better you do the better it is
for society this is very important I
remember when I had my first meeting
with Elon
Musk and this made me admire him
greatly and this is something my sister
commented on too you know Elon mus told
me something he does every day he wakes
up every morning thinking
about what problem he could fix for
Humanity that's
amazing of course what is the
counterpart being
successful
therefore in that
sense and moreover in my view on how the
system works on how the market Works
market failures do not exist that is to
say that is a
problem all right a problem for
neoclassical
economies because of of the mathematical
tools they've
used uh to develop economic analysis but
actually it's not a real issue in
everyday life it's a problem in the
minds of economists in fact my latest
book called capitalism socialism and the
neoclassical trap deals precisely with
this issue yeah you've outlined these
ideas in capitalism socialism and their
NE classical trap so the Trap is that
there's no such thing as a middle ground
it's either capitalism or socialism and
every Middle Ground ends
in a state of socialism well actually
that is what mises
said that there
were he said that there are only two
systems free enterprise capitalism and
socialism and he also pointed out and
this is proven in Hayek's book The Road
to serom that any Middle Ground solution
is unstable in terms of capitalism
meaning it tends towards socialism so
when you implement an intervention it
causes government failure which then
triggers further intervention setting up
a trap that results in more and more
intervention and in this context the
neoclassicals with their market failure
Theory are in fact dealing with problems
that are fundamentally
mathematical rather than making the
world a better place they have if you
will Been instrumental in increasing the
levels of intervention let me tell you
something well
you
know I have an economist as chairman of
the president's advisory
Council Dr Damian Rael who studied here
at Harvard University and completed his
PhD was mentored by Kenneth rogov the
American
Economist and rogov has said that Dr
ridle
was his best
student nowadays we're actually working
with
Dr Ryle specifically
on on all these issues that that arise
from you know the interventions
proposed uh proposed by
the by the
mainstream such as the so-called
correction of market
failures and a few days ago he conducted
a
survey of search algorithms
and uh policy
recommendations and that resulted in a
map painted from red to blue uh and well
the redder it was the more it was linked
to socialism there was an intermediate
thing that was yellow and blue was free
market
ideas and one of the things he
discovered as part as part of that graph
or chart
was that the
largest the largest number of policy
recommendations
scandalously are actually left
leaning so that is the empirical
evidence of what I pointed out in the
book capitalism socialism and the
neoclassical trap you mentioned your uh
four-legged children what have you uh
learned about life from your dogs
uh well from my four-legged children I
have learned unconditional
love in fact
well my name in Hebrew means loyal
friend faithful
friend and on the Chinese horoscope I am
dog and if there's one thing that
defines me is
loyalty being decent
and those virtues you know you can find
them in those wonderful beings that dogs
are who who love
unconditionally in fact they are
superior beings
right spiritually
speaking in my case
because because you know I don't forget
or forgive those who have harmed
me that is to say all those who have
insulted defame me and criticize me I
remember each one of
them but I don't have the greatness
needed to forgive
them on the topic of loyalty in politics
I'm sure there's been a lot of people
some people who have betrayed
you does that hurt your
heart it
depends because uh
you sometimes think that you can expect
some people to be loyal and if they
betray
you of course that hurts but some people
you actually don't expect anything from
them so so if there's
betrayal I mean you won't be annoyed or
feel bad because um because you owe it
to someone who didn't share your
values but politics does have that you
know
sometimes many of the people you may
come across don't have the values you
advocate
for but it's cost benefit you need to
let the ship sail on right or would you
rather let it
sink that's not my case I fight until
the end there are traitors but that's
part of
politics and that's not my line but of
course they do exist
there are a lot of people who admire
your revolutionary Spirit what what
advice would you give them maybe young
people on how to live a life like yours
and have an impact on the world like you
have begun to
do I didn't do this thinking about
having an impact on the
world I have defined what makes me happy
and I live according to that I live
consistently by
that
and and most importantly I would say
never give
up
moreover and above all never be
half-hearted I would
rather cry because I
failed rather than not crying because I
never tried
I mean I'm a perfectionist so when I do
air of course I have a bad time but
still I prefer to go and get things done
if it goes wrong it's part of life but I
will
never never have to regret not having
done what I thought needed to be done at
that moment all right what gives you
hope about the future of Argentina Ina
and the future of
humanity well uh the fact that thanks to
social media and to the whole Tech
Revolution going
on every day more and more people are
becoming
aware of how important freedom
is to
live to live in peace and prosperity and
I believe even though buau rats and the
elites fight untiringly to enslave
us a wave of Freedom has been
Unleashed which if we do wage the fight
we'll have a much better
world what is your famous words of Viva
libertad how did that come about and
what does it mean to you Long Live
Freedom damn it
you know that first
started while I was giving my book
presentations at the end of my
presentation I would say
VI and um that really stuck with me
since
then without thinking about it
throughout my life it was going to
continue being present in fact today my
presentations all of my speeches end
with may God God bless the
argentinians May the forces of Heaven be
with us and Viv
Liber the first phrase
reflects my faith in God
fervently and that I'm deeply thankful
to the
Creator for the wonderful things he has
bestowed upon me
daily the second one has to do with a
quote from the book of mabes
3:19 which says that victory in battle
doesn't depend on the size of the army
but on the forces of
Heaven this has to do with the
victory of the Jewish people the mbans
against the Greeks and how they recover
the
temple and the last one well is my war
cry well there's no better way to end it
thank you for being a warrior for
freedom and thank you for talking today
thank thank you very much indeed for
your interview and thank you for being
so well educated because very often
interviewers are not like that and you
did have Windows to play foul and you
didn't and I recognize that and I thank
you for that thank
you thanks for listening to this
conversation with Javier Malay to
support this podcast please check out
our sponsors in the description and now
let me leave you some words from George
Orwell in a time of Deceit telling the
truth is a revolutionary
act thank you for listening and hope to
see you next time