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Language: en
Tom: Everybody, welcome to Impact Theory.
You're here, my friends, because you believe
as I do that human potential is nearly limitless.
You know that having potential is not the
same as actually doing something with it,
so out goal with this show and company is
to introduce you to the people and ideas that
will help you actually execute on your dreams.
All right.
Today's guest is one of the most successful
female athletes of all time, but her road
to superstardom was a rocky one.
Being born to a very famous father and having
a very difficult childhood turned her into
a self-proclaimed rebel without a cause who
lived like she was actively looking for trouble.
Surprise, surprise, she ultimately found it.
In this case, thank God, because it wasn't
until she was sent to juvenile hall for shoplifting
and spent months behind bars that she finally
realized that if she was going to make her
dreams a reality, she was going to have to
get herself together and get herself together,
she did.
After seeing her first female boxing match,
she realized in an instant that that was exactly
what she wanted to do.
Despite all the naysayers in the world, she
decided to throw herself into boxing full-time,
a decision that led to one of the most astonishing
careers in professional boxing regardless
of gender.
By the time she retired, she had racked up
24 wins and 0 losses.
She didn't just win, she dominated the sport,
getting 21 of her victories by knockout and
holding 4 world championship titles.
She has so captured people's imaginations
that post-boxing, she has arguably been even
more successful.
She's been tapped to host or appear on numerous
shows, including American Gladiators, Dancing
with the Stars, Celebrity Apprentice, Everyday
Health, and Late Night Chef Fight.
She won Celebrity Chopped twice, impressing
my wife, and now she's set her sights on becoming
the queen of healthy living.
She has an upcoming cookbook due out fall
of 2017 and she's launched her own lifestyle
brand and podcast, which is blowing up thanks
to her roughly 4,000,000 strong social following.
Please, help me in welcoming the former President
of the Women's Sports Foundation, the daughter
of the greatest boxer of all time, the host
of Laila Ali Lifestyle, none other than Laila
Ali.
(applause).
Laila: Thank you.
Tom: Thank you so much for coming on.
Laila: Happy to be here.
Thank you so much.
Tom: Oh, man.
Truly, truly a pleasure.
Laila: Thank you.
That was a great introduction.
Tom: Thank you.
The funny thing is, I put more time and effort
into the intro, I think, than anything else.
It's my way of coming to really understand
the person.
The thing that surprised me, I didn't know
how rebellious you were.
Laila: Yes.
I think a lot of people still don't because
I wrote the book 'Reach!: Finding Strength,
Spirit, and Personal Power' back in 2002 when
I first started my boxing career because so
many people were being naysayers.
They didn't really understand where this fighter
came from.
I'm like, "Look, you can't judge a book by
its cover.
You never know what someone has been through."
They just assumed I'm Muhammad's daughter.
I was like, "Oh, I want to be a boxer like
my dad" and that's why I became a boxer.
Ironically, it had nothing to do with the
fact that my dad was a boxer.
It was seeing women's boxing on television
for the first time.
Tom: Yeah.
I definitely made the assumption that you
had become a boxer and that your dad was coaching
you and that that was just a natural ascension
for you.
How many ... there's eight kids in your family?
Laila: I forget sometimes.
Let me think, there's nine of us total.
Tom: Wow.
Laila: There's nine.
Yes.
I have one sister that I grew up with with
the same mother, so we have the same parents,
both parents.
Tom: But you're the only one that went into
boxing?
Laila: Only one that went into boxing.
I'm his youngest girl.
Of course, that was something my dad had to
struggle with when he found out that I actually
wanted to enter the sport.
Tom: Because he didn't want you to.
Laila: No, he didn't.
He didn't tell me not to when he found out.
He pretty much heard through the grapevine.
The story is basically as I wrote about in
the book.
I got into a lot of trouble growing up.
I was hanging out with the wrong crowd, I
had a really dysfunctional family.
My parents divorced.
My mom got remarried, she married a man who
was abusive.
Not physically, but emotionally.
She started putting that on us basically and
pretty much abandoned as her kids and we were
just raising ourselves.
I literally lived in the guest house and nobody
woke me up to go to school, nobody made sure
that I had dinner, nobody did any of that.
It was like you do your own thing, so I raised
myself.
I was upset and I was feeling bad obviously
and angry at my mom.
That coupled with the fact that I've always
been very independent and headstrong, it was
like, "I don't want people to like me because
my father's Muhammad Ali."
I would stray away from our group of friends,
our wealthy friends that we grew up with.
Venture off into the wrong neighborhoods and
end up around people, "Hey, let's go shoplifting."
"Okay.
I got money in my pocket, but I'm going to
go with you.
Get it for free?
Sure."
Then you get in trouble and then that's how
that whole thing started.
Once I got into the system, then they start
looking at your grades and they start looking
at like, "Where is your mom?
Does your mom know these friends you were
with?"
No.
All these different things.
The judge luckily just thought, "Okay, this
is Muhammad Ali's daughter and her mom doesn't
know what's going on.
I'm going to teach her a lesson without actually
..." He never sentenced me to time.
He basically postponed my case and said, "Go."
No, he said, "Come back in two weeks."
I thought my whole life was going to end.
I went in there with this attitude like telling
my friends, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to court,
girl.
I'll see you at the club tonight."
I thought I was grown.
They locked me up and that's when I became
a child like, "Mommy."
I'm looking at my mom and she couldn't do
anything.
I got locked up and I hear now from her she
said, "Actually, it was the best thing that
ever happened."
She felt like that's what I needed because
I was just doing my own thing and disrespecting
her, stealing her car, just doing what I wanted
to do.
I came back two weeks later and that two weeks
seemed like months and months and months.
I came back and he left me at the court in
the back room all day, didn't see my case,
sent me back for another two weeks.
I thought I was going to die.
He did that a few more times and finally when
I came back, I was just ready to just, "Please
just get me out of here."
That's when they sent me to a group home.
I was happy to go to a group home at that
point.
Having your freedom taken away is unlike anything
else you can possibly imagine.
I had to go to a group home and there was
a program there with other girls.
We had to sit in group and we had to talk
about our problems.
I've always been a planner.
Even though I was going through, I had these
issues, there were positive things that I
was doing.
I was really, once I set my mind to something,
I can do it.
I said, "Now how long it's going to take to
get out of here?
What do I need to work on?"
I'm keeping notes.
They're like, "It's going to take at least
a year."
I was like, "I'm not going to be here for
a year."
I had got out the program in six months, which
no one had ever graduated that program.
By the time I was done, they wanted me to
come back and work there.
Tom: Wow.
Laila: Yeah.
It was great.
I learned so much about these young girls
that had problems way deeper than mine.
It just showed me.
That's when I really learned to stop complaining
and stop being mad about my situation.
I actually did have friends and family and
people around me that actually supported me
and loved me regardless of what was going
on at home.
It just really changed my outlook on life.
I also wanted to grow up quickly, so that
was a thing about myself I wrote about in
the book.
I went to school to learn how to do nails.
I used to take the bus.
I was doing really bad in school getting bad
grades, but then I'd take the bus way across
town into the hood to go to school to learn
how to do nails.
I was like, "I'm going to move out this house."
I didn't like my home.
I was like, "I want to move out this house
as soon as I can."
Tom: That was a promise you made your mom
at 13?
Laila: I did.
Yeah.
I asked her to emancipate me.
I was like, "I found out you can emancipate
me.
There's some kids that live on their own."
I did this research.
She was like, "Laila ..." I was like, "No,
really."
That didn't work, so I was like, "Okay, as
soon as I'm old enough."
I said I'm going to go to school, I'm going
to live on my own, pay my bills.
I was like, "How can I go to school and pay
my bills?
I have to be in control of my schedule."
I learned how to do nails.
After I got out, it sounds crazy now saying
that after I was locked up, after I got back
on track, I went and started building a clientele
and had a nail salon.
That's what I was doing when I saw women's
boxing for the first time.
In school, had a nail salon which I built
up on my own at the age of 18, and then I
just went a different direction with boxing.
I know that was a mouthful, but ...
Tom: No, no.
I want to belabor the point a little more.
Every story that you touch on there, having
read the book, I know how deep to go.
For instance, in trying to get your degree,
you end up losing 200 hours because of a clerical
error.
Laila: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom: But you still had the fortitude to keep
taking the bus to get it done.
I'm going to guess, and we'll get more into
this later, but I'm going to guess that those
laid some of the foundation for a champion's
mindset.
Laila: Definitely.
Tom: How did you cultivate that, though?
How did you not just get pissed off and quit
which is, I think, what 99% of people do when
they realize, "Okay, I'm halfway there" and
"Nope, I'm back at zero"?
Laila: I think that ... and I never actually
thought about that.
I wrote the book so long ago, now that I'm
really grown and have my own kids and really
thought back to that situation, how at that
age did I say, "You know what?
I spent all this time."
It took a long time to get 200 hours and taking
the bus across town.
Trust me, nobody else in my family was taking
the RTD, okay?
I don't even know.
Is RTD even still around?
Is it called the RTD anymore?
I don't know, but that was public transportation.
My sister would never get on the bus.
She would wait for my mom to drive her somewhere.
Remember, we lived in Malibu at a certain
point and all these beautiful places and I'm
Muhammad Ali's daughter on public transportation.
That should tell you something right there.
I'm a little different.
I didn't care.
I was like, "I need to get where I need to
go and I'm not waiting on my mom to take me."
A lot of times, I would be let down.
I'd be waiting.
You say you're going to take me somewhere
and you don't.
I learned at a very young age like, "If you
want it, you got to go get it."
For me when I found out that those hours were
lost, because I wanted that license so badly,
I was like, "I'm just going to have to do
it again.
There's no other choice."
If you want it, you got to go get it.
I went to a different school, started over,
and ended up at a better school with a better
situation.
That's pretty much it.
We can get into that deeper, but in the moment,
I didn't think like, "Of course this is a
champion mindset."
It's just like, "I want something and I'm
not going to let any roadblock that gets in
the way stop me.
I'm going to get there regardless."
Tom: Yeah.
I love that.
The one thing that I wish for anybody watching
this, do yourself a favor.
Normally I wait til the end to encourage people
to really dive in, but I'm telling you this
is how you want to research Laila Ali.
Read her biography first.
Now I had the great pleasure of not realizing
that it had been written back in 2002.
Laila: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom: When I'm reading it, I keep like, "When
is she going to start talking about boxing?",
which doesn't come until literally at the
last, maybe, eighth of the book or something.
I'm like, "Whoa."
I'm getting super deep.
You'd opened up saying, "If I'm going to tell
you about me, I'm going to tell you about
me.
No bullshit, no holds barred.
We're going to really go in on this."
It was so raw, so vulnerable, so unguarded.
Okay, now I'm in that world.
You haven't even started talking about boxing
yet.
I realize there's very little left in the
book to get into boxing and then I realize,
"Oh my God, this was written a long time ago."
Now I get to do this time warp.
Literally I finish the book, I set it down,
and then I start watching videos where I filtered
by last year.
It was all stuff in the last ... most of it
was really three to six months, and you're
a totally different person.
As unguarded as you were in the book, I could
still feel you doing, you were using the unguarded-ness
as a way to push people back to almost intimidate,
if that makes sense.
You were so strong and now there's this wonderful
openness about you.
Was that intentional?
Laila: I like the way you broke that down.
Let me explain.
You're really, really on it.
When I first started boxing, I felt like I
had something to prove.
One, I had to let people really get to know
me, first of all.
Even til this day, I don't like when people
attack my character.
Character is really important to me and having
integrity.
I remember when I first started boxing, people
were like, "Oh, it's a publicity stunt.
She's just doing it to get attention."
It was totally not the case and that irritated
me like, "Why would I do that?"
That's just not the type of person that I
am.
In fact, as I wrote in the book, I didn't
want to be famous.
That was part of why it took me so long, it
felt like so long.
Now I look back, I was like, "That wasn't
that long."
It took me a year of contemplation to get
into it, but it felt like forever as a young
person to make a decision to do something.
I didn't want to be living my life publicly.
That was a inner struggle and then once it
started happening, people were just like,
"Oh, things are going to be easier for her
because of who she is."
I had to show people I've been a fighter all
my life.
I don't have any fear.
Since then in my career, I've had certain
people call me, say that I won't fight them
and I'm afraid.
I've never been afraid of anybody.
I wasn't afraid to stand up to my father when
I said, "I don't want to be Muslim."
He [inaudible 00:13:02] I shouldn't box and
women shouldn't box.
I said, "I don't care what you think.
I'm going to do it anyway."
It wasn't even about proving anything to him.
It was just a matter of I'm going to do it
regardless and it really didn't matter to
me what he thought.
I didn't go to him to ask him for help.
The thing is that even though that's my dad
... and my dad didn't raise me.
My dad wasn't there for the most important
parts of my life.
It's hard to be fighting the world and be
as great as he is and be a present dad.
I'm not faulting him for that, but that's
just the truth.
A lot of what I had to go through when I was
... went through molestation by family, he
didn't know about any of that.
Part of it, I can't say that it's his fault,
but a lot of things, you just ... he was getting
sick and he had a lot going on.
You don't want to bother your father with
that.
These are things that I had to deal with,
but as a child, you feel abandoned by both
parents.
That's something that I had to deal with,
but I found a way to become strong.
I did my fighting and I let my anger out in
the ring.
These girls had no idea what I was unleashing
on them, you know what I mean, and where.
They had no idea.
Before I'd get into that ring, I used to look
myself in the eye and say, "Okay, you're about
to do this."
I would look deep within.
There was no doubt in my mind that I wasn't
going to win that fight because I was bringing
all this stuff to the ring.
Like I said, we can get into that, but I don't
even remember what the question was.
I just went all off.
Tom: You answered it, nonetheless.
That was amazing.
What I was saying was that you are, to me,
this watchable transformation.
So often a transformation is told looking
backwards.
Laila: Right.
Tom: Because you've been living a relatively
public life since you were about 18, you can
follow that.
It's so powerful and I really encourage certainly
young women to read the book to understand-
Laila: That's who I wrote it for, really.
Tom: Which is incredible because I think if
they really do that and they take the time,
there's a couple things I want them to take
away from.
One, that you were super open and yet still
a confident, secure person who's gone on to
be very successful, and most importantly,
Laila, this is the thing that freaks me out
about you in the most beautiful way possible.
You're not bitter.
Laila: Mm-mmm (negative).
Tom: Even in the book and you're, I have the
chills, you're detailing what you went through
with your mom, your father moves to Michigan,
very much not a part of your life.
You don't feel protected, you were molested,
bad relationships, just negative things happening
to you.
Yet through it all, you're like, "I don't
judge my mom and I have real love and warmth
for her.
I'm, in many ways, a mother's girl."
It seems like you guys have rekindled the
relationship.
The whole time I'm reading it, I'm like, "How
is she not just pissed all the time?"
Laila: I did go through my time when I was
angry because I was in it.
When I moved out of the household, I was able.
My mom is a great person.
She's a beautiful person inside and out, but
I see her weakness as a woman.
She knows that.
Trust me, that was hard to write that book
because I do love my mom and I'm putting her
business out there, too.
I'm putting my dad's business out there.
I didn't make a lot of money on that book.
It wasn't for money; that was never the purpose.
It was just something that I needed to release
and it really was about me at the time.
It was more selfish like, "People need to
understand me.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to tell your
story too because that's a part of my story."
My mom was not happy about that book because
she was ashamed.
I said, "This is going to help."
This is a young girl telling her mom, "Mom,
this is going to help more people than it's
going to hurt.
I'm sorry, but you made your bed, you got
to lay in it."
I've said that to my dad over the years too
about certain things.
That's just how I feel.
I take responsibility for the things that
I do, so that's for everybody.
That's sad, but you did do that and you did
make those choices.
For me, like I said, it wasn't a easy thing
to do also as far as my mom was concerned,
but I thought that it was so important for
people.
Even now like you said, I can reverse engineer
and go back and look at ... It was great.
Like I said, I republished the book and I
had to read it again because I was afraid
it was weird as an adult to open it.
Not because I don't know the story, just because
I don't like watching myself on TV.
I don't like listening to myself and I didn't
want to read my book.
When I went back in, I had to update it and
do certain things to it.
I was like, "Wow."
Now as a mom and just really looking at things
differently like having your daughter write
the things that I wrote even though they were
true, you see things from a different perspective.
It's amazing to be able to go back and see.
I have always been that same real person.
One thing about me is I'm honest.
I put it out there and it is what it is.
At the same time, I have integrity, of course.
I'm not going to just throw people under the
bus, but I have to tell the story.
Tom: It definitely felt like it was done in
a respectful way.
It's like violence or nudity in a film.
There's gratuitous and then there's, okay,
it's meaningful to the experience.
It felt like a gift.
It felt like a real glimpse.
You can tell people all day long, "Money is
not the answer."
Laila: Of course.
Tom: People just, they don't believe it.
Reading that book was like, "Wow, it really
wasn't a solution."
It doesn't get more famous than your dad,
not on a worldwide stage.
There's precious few people that have had
the kind of global impact that your father
has.
Growing up on that stage with that kind of
wealth and to see that that wasn't the answer,
that you still had to find your own path,
but that you did carve that path.
I want to talk about what you just brought
up, which is responsibility.
Taking responsibility for what you do.
Above my fireplace, which you can't see, is
the infamous image of Jordan from the flu
game where he's, head bowed down and has one
of the best games of the playoffs all while
having a 102, 103 degree temperature.
You boxed one of your most famous fights with
the flu, but then you never talked about it
until years later.
Laila: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Tom: Why didn't you talk about it?
Laila: For me, I'm really a true competitor.
I'm not going to make any excuses, period,
for my performance.
My performance was not up to par, to me, because
I wanted a knockout and I didn't get it.
To me, to say "Oh, I had the flu" and it was
really no way to prove it, it would have seemed
like I was just making up an excuse when I
didn't need to make up an excuse because I
beat that ass.
I beat that ass now, don't get it twisted,
and I won fair and square.
I don't need to come back now and make an
excuse.
The fact is I did have the flu and after the
third round, I was ready ... I would not sit
down in my corner because if I sit down, I'm
not going to be able to get back up.
I remember and this, we're talking about the
fight with Jackie Frazier, which is Joe Frazier's
daughter, and there was a lot of history there
between our parents.
I did not take her seriously.
There's a whole story there, you'd have to
read the book, but I was just like, "I cannot
wait to just get her out of my way, dust her
off, and go for these championship titles."
She started boxing after I started boxing
and I had animosity towards her.
I was like, "People already don't take me
seriously and here you come with the circus
act.
You're not serious.
You're just trying to make money and capitalize
on our names."
That's how I felt, but because people wanted
to see the fight and it made sense and it
was business, I was like, "Okay, I'm going
to do it."
I wasn't really interested in fighting her,
but I needed to at the time.
That's actually, it was a tough fight because
I ended up being sick.
I think it would have been tougher than I
thought anyway because she really wanted to
win badly, too.
She really had animosity towards me.
I didn't realize that she was bringing all
this anger into the ring from what she went
through on the other side with her father.
My father used to talk about her father publicly.
"He's a gorilla, he's ignorant", he's this,
he's that.
She had to listen to that about one of the
most handsome, famous, most looked up to men
in the world talking badly about her father.
She had a lot of energy, too.
I'd be in my corner and they'd be like, "Get
her, Laila."
I'd be in her corner and they were like, "Get
her, Jackie."
There was so much energy in that room.
I was ready to fall out, but there was no
way I was going to stop.
I had no power in my punches, so I couldn't
get her out of there.
I won the fight and then I regret that we
didn't have a rematch because I was young
and had so much to prove.
I was like, "I'm not fighting her again.
I'm not fighting her again."
That's one of my two regrets in life is not
having a rematch with Jackie Frazier.
Tom: Are you going to tell us the other one?
Laila: At some point.
(laughter).
Tom: Fair enough.
Laila: If it comes up.
No.
Tom: Walk me through.
What does your self-talk sound like at that
moment?
Self-talk leading into the ring I know is
one of your things, I definitely hear about
that as well, but you're in the ring, you're
exhausted.
You can hardly stand up, you know better than
to sit down.
What are you saying to yourself?
Laila: Any time I've been sick, I always would
visualize the end of the fight, winning, and
as if it had already happened.
That's kind of how I do now.
I have this coach in my own head.
When things get hard, I just remind myself
this is life.
Things are going to get hard.
This is just life.
Don't worry about it, it's just, this is the
norm.
It's almost like with kids.
You stay calm and your kids'll stay calm.
I keep myself calm that way like, "It's all
good.
This is not a big deal."
I just stay calm.
You know how it is.
You can get yourself riled up and I try not
to get ... Sometimes you fall off.
I'm not perfect.
I'm saying this is 85% of the time.
Sometimes I need to let myself get riled up
and then I calm back down.
Tom: Walk me through when you decided that
you were going to be a fighter literally in
the room when you see female boxing for the
first time.
You didn't even know it existed, which I had
to admit was pretty ironic that the daughter
of Muhammad Ali didn't know female boxing-
Laila: Right, but that tells you though that
women's boxing was not promoted.
It was not publicized.
Yeah.
Tom: You were at a friend's house, if I'm
not mistaken.
Her father says, "You don't want to do that.
They'll knock your head off."
Laila: Right.
Tom: How do you ignore everybody and still
decide like, "No, no, no.
I'm going to do this"?
Laila: He was just a little na�ve to the
fact that I was a fighter.
My friend knew.
Remember, I was a little ...
Tom: In real life-
Laila: In real life.
I was a little rough to begin with.
I had had my fights.
Anyone who knew me wouldn't be like, "Oh my
God, you're going to fight?"
I was always a fighter.
Just to clarify, I used to call myself the
good bully because I'm that person.
I still am.
If I see someone picking on somebody, I'm
going to say something even now.
I don't care if I'm in Starbucks in line or
somewhere and somebody ... I'll be like, "Excuse
me, no, no, no.
There's no need to talk to her that way."
I'm that person.
I'm going to get in it.
I don't like to see people taken advantage
of.
I'm talking about when it's someone that can't
stand up for themself or someone that's smaller.
I would get into fights with boys a lot of
times because they'd be picking on someone
and I would jump in it.
I've got into fights because people would
come at me wrong and I was the type that's
going to stand up for myself.
Sometimes it could get physical, so for me,
I'm just not afraid of confrontation.
I don't like to start it, but it excites me
and I'm totally comfortable with it.
When he said, I was like, "What are you talking
about?"
I really felt like, "No, I can do this" not
knowing all the skill that went into it.
I just naturally felt like, "No, I can get
those girls."
Now if I would have got in with those girls,
I probably would have ... I mean, I was bigger
than them, so we wouldn't have been in the
same weight class.
I know now that you can't be a street fighter
and get into the ring with a professional
fighter and think you're going to win.
That's just ... you can't.
At the time not knowing, I thought I could
do it and he didn't.
It was easy for me to be like, "Anyway, yes,
I can."
Of course once I thought about it and took
the time to actually contemplate going to
the gym, got a trainer, I said, "Well, let
me just see if it's going to come to me naturally,
the skill side of it.
I don't want to embarrass myself, I don't
want to embarrass my father.
I understand the responsibility that I have
just coming from, it's not just about me."
It never has been when it came to, even though
I'm going to do me, it's a fine line.
It's not just about me.
If I'm going to do this, I have to make sure
I do it right.
When I went to the gym, I started training
and I'm asking the trainer like, "Do I have
it?
Is it natural?"
He's like, "Yeah."
Of course he's going to say yeah.
He's thinking like, "Payday for me."
I wasn't with the right guy at first.
He was not the right trainer.
That's why it was easy for me to shut out
the naysayer in the beginning and not say,
"Oh, you're right.
I can't do it."
I was like, "Yes, I can.
Yeah, and I'm going to show you, too."
Tom: I was going to say.
You've always said don't tell you that you
can't do something.
Laila: Yeah.
I sometimes tell me that I can't do something.
Tom: Do you, really?
Laila: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Yeah, definitely.
Tom: How do you respond?
Laila: I'm not somebody who just thinks superficially
like, "I can just do anything."
Yeah, I can do anything, but can you be good
at anything.
I'm not one of those people who wants to be
mediocre.
It's something like, for example, I can sing
a little bit.
I always say a little bit because that's a
disclaimer.
Just in case you say I can't sing.
That just makes me feel good to let you know
I know I'm not Whitney Houston, but I can
sing.
I can't sing as well as I want to sing so
that's why I didn't ... For a little while,
I started singing, I started recording music,
but then I was like, "If I want to do it,
I want to be one of the best.
I want to be like it's a gift."
I have a thing about people trying to do things
that they're not really good at.
I have so many other things that I'm good
at, let me not fool around with this.
You have to pick and choose, but that's just
the way that I think.
I'm like, "I can do anything that I want to
do" is about what am I going to put my time
into doing and I want to do it well.
I see kids, let's take for example a kid that
wants to play sports.
Yes, you can try as hard as you can and you
can train.
You can have the mindset and surround yourself
with the right people, but some kids just
don't have it.
They just don't have that natural ability.
Yes, you can keep trying and you can work
hard and out-hustle other people, but for
me, I'm the type of person I'd rather do something
else if it's not natural and something that
I want to do.
That's just how I go about things.
Yes, I do tell myself sometimes like, "Maybe
you shouldn't do that" or "You can't do that".
I don't know if I'm explaining it correctly.
Tom: You're explaining it very well.
Laila: Okay.
Tom: I'm going to push you a little bit.
Laila: Okay.
Tom: Certainly from where you started back
as a teenager in your early career as a boxer,
you didn't want to be out front, you didn't
want to live in the public eye and yet now
you have planted yourself very firmly in the
public eye.
I was shocked at how good you are at speaking.
Shocked.
Remember, I'm reading the book thinking this
is happening right now.
Laila: Right.
Tom: It's like, "I don't want to be out front."
There's definitely a certain sense of being
guarded.
Then in an instant, finish the last page,
click a YouTube video, you're like hella eloquent.
I was like, "What just happened?"
(laughter).
I was like, you're able to be so gregarious.
At some point that even though it wasn't an,
what I call, early wins, what you're calling
being naturally gifted at, for me, being verbal
was an early win.
I won't say I was naturally gifted at it,
but hey, as a clumsy kid, maybe I was a little
less clumsy than other people, which made
me excited, which made me want to do it more,
and then I just put the hours in.
At some point, like I get it with the boxing.
I guess it's easy to imagine because of your
dad, but the personality shift of blossoming
and literally stepping out front.
You did a 40 minute podcast, your first podcast
which was great, by the way.
Laila: Thank you.
Tom: That's what I do.
Watching that, I was like, "You go, girl."
I was super impressed.
When did that become, like despite not having
early wins, that you stuck with it, you got
good at it, and now clearly anyone who gets
introduced to you today just assumes you're
naturally gifted at speaking?
Laila: I've always been able to articulate
how I feel.
I've kind of, over the years, understood the
importance of the platform that I have and
the difference that I can make in the world.
Obviously growing up Muhammad Ali's daughter,
I've been inspired by my father in a lot of
ways to give back.
That's ultimately what helped me make the
decision to box.
I had to not be selfish because my reasons
for not wanting to be public [inaudible 00:29:01]
I was like, "I don't want to be bothered."
Then I was like, "You know what?
I can."
I don't want to be that Hollywood-type person.
I'm still not now.
I'm kind of anti-celebrity.
I don't have celebrity friends and all that
because all that comes with that, I'm not
really comfortable with.
I think that over the years ... and I'm still
perfecting that.
I'm not to where I want to be, but I think
when you can be authentic and you can be unguarded
and you have a story to tell and then you
do it over and over and over again, you just
get better at it.
I have a work ethic that I have really high
expectations of myself and I work hard.
That's something that I'm going to eventually
get good at it if I'm going to keep doing
it.
Even with my fights, I didn't judge my fight
after I knocked somebody out and won.
I didn't go, "Oh, look how great I did."
I'm watching the tape like "Let me see what
I can do better next time."
Of course I was going to win.
That's not the point.
(laughter).
No, really, this is just how I thought.
It was, "I'm not surprised that I won."
People don't know what I trained.
If you're a speaker, for example, I all the
time go, "You know what I mean?
You know what I'm saying?"
That's something that I do that is a bad habit.
If I'm working on that, I'm like, "I'm going
to do this speech and I'm not going to say
that" and then I'm going to go back and check
to see if I say it.
Other people may not have noticed, but I'm
going to see did I work on the things in the
gym that I was supposed to be working on.
That's how you continually get better.
I don't feel as successful as other people
think that I am because there's so many other
things that I want to do.
When I saw it, I'm like, "Wow, it's great
to be invited on this show.
I'm being seen as successful and I can inspire
other people."
I get it, but I still feel like I have so
much more to do.
I think that that's what my drive is still.
I see what I want and I'm trying to go in
that direction.
To answer your question about speaking, I
think that it just happens over the years
and I do.
I do speak a lot.
I do a lot of public speaking and I'm perfecting
that craft, so thank you so much for noticing
that I'm doing well.
I'm learning from you here today by listening
to you and watching you interview me.
Tom: Wow.
If I can help you with something, I would
be elated.
Laila: Oh, trust me, I'll be calling.
Tom: My thing is the reason that I bring that
up is hiding in the way that you are or like
a road map of how to become great, literally.
Even if I were just meeting you now and somebody
had given me these questions to ask and I
didn't know why I was asking and I just needed
to listen to the answer, you're revealing
it right here and now.
MC Hammer, I met one of his backup dancers.
His backup dancer said, "Let me tell you why
MC Hammer was great.
After every single show, he would make us
watch the tape in real-time.
We would get off the stage out of breath and
he would put the tape in of the show that
just happened."
He said, "He would make us watch it in real-time
and he would point out what worked, what didn't
work, what we could all do better."
He said, "I learned in that moment what real
greatness is."
Hearing you say that, that like, "Okay, I
just won but I'm going back to look at the
things that I did wrong", I really want people
to hear that.
I don't want them to get lost in you saying,
"I had a natural talent for it and I worked
hard, yes, but it started from natural talent."
I want them to hear the "And I worked hard"
part.
That, to me, is so critical.
Right now, there's a young boy or a girl or
maybe an old man or woman and they've never
done that thing because they don't know what
they're naturally gifted at.
They don't know where [inaudible 00:32:26]
their early wins.
They think they have to in order to do something
great and I really believe your story is at
times that, but at other times is the watching
the tape.
It is looking yourself in the eye before a
fight and saying, "I've trained harder for
this, I'm worthy of this victory, I've already
won."
Right?
Laila: Yeah, but the thing is is that, and
I've said to people before because they're
like, "You're so confident."
I'm not that confident about everything.
I want people to understand that just because,
like when you start talking about boxing,
you can tell I get a whole different energy.
That's my thing, that's my space.
Like, "Don't ... I'm going to take your head
off."
I used to have a thing saying like, "If my
mama got in that ring, I'd whoop her ass."
(laughter).
People are like, "Your mother?"
But if she got in there, that must mean she
was going to beat me.
Like, "Okay, so if it comes down to me and
you, I have to win in this ring even if my
mother."
That was just a saying.
I'm not going to really beat my mother up.
Tom: Unless she got in the ring.
Laila: Yeah, unless she got in the ring, but
she wouldn't.
She knows better.
(laughter).
I'm just being funny right now.
I'm trying to be funny.
I'm saying that I'm not that confident about
everything.
I do have the confidence in knowing that if
I want to work hard at something, I can make
it happen.
A lot of times, I know that people say like
when I say, "Oh, I have to work on this and
I have to work on that", people are like,
"No.
Stop talking negative about yourself.
I'm like, "I'm not talking negative, I'm just
being realistic."
People have a different way of describing
things.
When I said to you, "Well, I say that to myself
you can't do something", sometimes I mean
"You can't do it yet" or "You're not there
yet".
In my mind, I'm not where I want to be, so
I'll say to myself ... like I've always said
I wish I had a better vocabulary.
That's one of my things that I'm insecure
about because I did miss out on a lot of school.
I don't have the intellect as far as the books
and things that I would like to have or a
lot of the knowledge that I would like to
have.
I'm always like, "Oh, in my next life, I'm
going to do better in school."
Some people are like, "Why can't you do it
now?"
I'm like, "Because I don't want to put my
time and energy into going back and doing
all these things now."
A lot of time to myself, I'm like, "Well,
if you wanted to work on it, you could."
That's always in the back of my mind like,
"Yeah, I could."
You have to choose because we have all these
things in life that we want to go after and
it's like, "What are you really going to focus
on and hone in on to actually bring into reality?
This is only so much time and space."
That's how I feel.
Tom: No, I'm with you.
What are you going to do to make sure that
your kids have that kind of hunger and tenacity
to see something through?
Laila: Not everybody has the same hunger and
tenacity.
I know that.
With my son, for example, he's very timid
and then I learned about he has a trait called
HSC.
He's a highly sensitive child, but it's actually
a gift because he has heightened senses, sights,
sounds-
Tom: Wait, did you actually have him tested
for that?
Laila: I found out about it myself because
he would say, "Mom, it's loud in here" when
he was a kid.
I'm like, "It's not loud.
What are you talking about?"
If I changed the brand of ketchup, he said,
"I don't like this."
Like, "What are you talking about?
Just eat it."
He'd say, "My tag is hurting me.
It's hurting me."
I'm like, "Curtis, come on.
Your tag?"
I looked and he had little scabs from his
tag.
You know you can Google anything now.
I got to HSC, highly sensitive child.
You can answer these questions and then it'll
tell you whether you have one or not and then
just how to deal with it.
I started to understand him more.
With my son, he may not have that same drive
and type of attitude, tenacity that I have,
but he's very confident and he's a leader.
He has it in different ways.
My daughter, she's more like a little version
of me.
I'm like, "Oh, man.
I got my hands full", but she's very sensitive.
If you get on her, then she'll start crying.
I think you really have to know your child,
but I just try to do, I'm like, "Well, what
did my parents do?"
I can tell you the things they didn't do right,
but what did they do right that made me feel
like I could just do anything?
Tom: I have a really distressing theory about
parenting kids in general.
I think that hardship may be one of the most
important things if you're going to develop
hunger.
I come from the school of "Look, I get it.
It's definitely nature and nurture; it's not
just one or the other."
I think that nurture probably accounts for
a lot more than nature by itself.
There's a very distressing equation, we'll
call it, which is if you put somebody through
tremendous hardship, most people will be broken
by that.
The people that don't break become capable
of the extraordinary.
Let's look at it from a bacteria perspective,
which I'm surprising myself with this right
now.
If you take antibiotics and you stop before
your cycle is done or the cycle doesn't kill
them all, what you get left are the ones that
are still alive.
They can face that adversity and they are
still tough.
That's how you get superbugs because it's,
you didn't kill them all.
It's like, either kill them all or don't treat
them and isolate and help proliferate the
ones that are the toughest.
That's how I think about kids and that's how
I think about the inner cities specifically
is you put a slew of humanity through the
inner cities and most of them are broken.
Most of them fall into a generational cycle
of emotional and intellectual poverty, but
some become Jay-Z, some become titans of industry.
You hear these crazy stories of people fleeing
Mexico with, like, $7 in their pocket.
I met this guy once who's now, I forget the
name of the company, but this huge company
in the U.S. He said, "I crossed the Mexico
American border with $7 and a guitar and now
I've built this", it was a technology company,
"I've built this massive empire."
Laila: Amazing.
Tom: People that have immigrant parents, it's
that same thing.
The adversity does break a lot of people,
but it also ignites.
Reading your story, it was like, man, I would
never have wished the adversity on you, but
it definitely seems like it played a part
in making you as hungry and driven and successful
as you are.
Laila: Definitely, and I wouldn't change any
of it.
That's why I wrote about it and I embrace
it because a lot of people would be embarrassed
to talk about it.
I still cringe sometimes when I hear someone
say "For shoplifting?"
because it doesn't sound good.
People, again, they don't realize I was a
kid and whatever, but then I feel more comfortable
when I can tell the story or someone can read
the story.
It definitely is what made me who I am, everything
that I go through.
You talked about being bitter.
I'm not bitter.
I have a saying, "Don't get bitter, get better."
Tom: That's nice.
Laila: Yeah.
Everything happens for a reason.
I truly believe that.
My kids haven't gone through poverty or anything
like that, so I think that obviously everyone
doesn't have to live that lifestyle to just
be like, "I got street cred.
I made it happen."
Everybody's going to go through something
different.
My husband Curtis Conway is an NFL player
and he grew up in the hood.
He has a whole different story than mine,
but we connected because we had so much in
common.
I've always noticed I get along really well
with people from the hood.
Some of my best friends are straight-up sistas.
That's who I relate to and it's because it's
that realness, it's that rawness and the struggle.
I relate to the struggle and I relate to hard
work and I relate to authenticity.
I think that it definitely, everything you've
been through is it does turn you into the
person that you are.
That's why I don't look at my story and complain.
I don't look at my story and think it's any
better or worse than anybody else's, but I
own my story.
I think that as I've gotten older, I've learned
to appreciate other people more.
I used to put my dad on such a high pedestal
because of all of the great ... now, trust
me, he's not perfect at all and I know all
the things about him that are not perfect.
That also taught me a lot like you can be
that great and still not be ... far from it,
really far from it, I'm saying as far as I
know some really great dads.
I'm saying just some of the things about my
dad, I'm like, "How do you do this and then
do that?"
We're complicated human beings.
Every individual has their things, some that
you're good at, some that you're bad at.
When you learn that at a very young age, you
just judge people in the world very differently.
It's like, "We're all here for a reason.
We're all a part of this universe.
Everybody is just as important."
I am blessed to, from a very young age and
I get it, be confident.
I try to use my platform to get other people
to see all the unique gifts that they have.
Everybody's story is different and unique
and just as important.
Tom: Tell us a bit about the platform that
you're building.
How do you hope that helps people be more
comfortable and confident?
Laila: From a business standpoint when I retired
from boxing, it was like, "Now what am I going
to do?"
I've always been an entrepreneur.
I've always felt like I can do a million things,
so it's really zoning in like, "What do I
really want to do?"
Yes, I did Dancing with the Stars because
I'd had to show people a different side of
myself and that was the perfect opportunity.
From there, I went on to start hosting television
shows and all that.
That wasn't the plan.
I don't even remember what the exact plan
was then, but I knew I needed to show a different
side of myself.
I hosted American Gladiators with Hulk Hogan
and a bunch of other shows.
All that time though behind the scenes, I
was like, "What do I really want to do?"
These shows come and go and now you're back
at the starting point.
I don't like feeling like anyone's in control
of my destiny.
It's like, "If you have to wait for someone
to give you a hosting job, that's not really
being in control of the situation."
It took me about five years to say, "Hmm,
what am I passionate about?
What do I love?
What can I have the same confidence and drive
for as I did boxing?"
That was when I really started learning that
health, fitness, and wellness was something
I was passionate about because I'm writing
nutrition plans for friends and always trying
to help people.
I'm doing it now because that's what I'm really
into, but I was like, "Okay."
Now business mind kicks in like, "How can
I monetize this?
How can I really focus on the things that
I love?"
Give back, do philanthropy, all of that, but
still make sure that I'm taking care of my
family.
That's when I started the Laila Ali Lifestyle
brand and I'm still building it now.
I have my podcast Laila Ali Lifestyle and
I have my blog which is under reconstruction
right now and then I want to come out with
nutrition products.
I'm coming out with my cookbook.
As a celebrity, you have to rebrand yourself
because people knew me as a boxer.
Then of course, I went on Chopped because
that was, again, strategic not only because
I love to cook, but I need to get into that
space and put that out there so people start
seeing me that way.
We have a big problem here in the United States
with obesity and diabetes and people just
don't know how to eat, how to take care of
themselves.
They're always being fed the wrong thing and
different information.
It's really overwhelming.
I feel like we can take control of our health
by eating properly because a lot of the problems
that we have are from the lifestyle choices
and the food that we're eating.
Tom: When you say the problems, do you mean
physically?
Mentally?
Emotionally?
All of it?
Laila: I mean all of it.
I believe that your food can be a medicine
or it could be your poison.
I truly believe, like I said, just by taking
control of your nutrition and eating good
quality food and having a healthy lifestyle
mentally, physically, spiritually, all of
that comes into play holistically but it definitely,
food plays a big part of it.
You can't always go that deep on people because
some people are just like, "What's organic?"
Or "I'm healthy.
I drink only clear soda."
I'm like, "Really?"
(laughter).
I hear those things, I'm telling you, when
I'm speaking around the country to certain
people.
I'm like, "Wow, people really don't know."
Some people you have to start, meet them where
they're at.
I really want to speak to those people that
just don't really get it and try to ... that's
my passion to teach people how to take control
of their health.
When I started boxing, I had to lose weight
to become a fighter.
I had to learn how to eat and how to fuel
my body and then I was like, "Wow."
I noticed how good I felt and how my body
changed, how my thinking changed, how my energy
changed.
Just everything about me changed because of
the way that I ate.
Tom: How much do you think body image plays
into confidence and the ability to chase your
dreams?
Laila: It's very important.
At the end of the day I just always say, "Just
focus on your health first" and then naturally
when you feel good and you look good, you're
going to feel better about yourself.
It's really the health should be the first
key thing.
For me, I'm not that vain to where I won't
eat.
I have to think about, "That's not good for
me."
If it's just about gaining two pounds, I don't
care.
I have to think like, "That's poison" and
that'll make me not eat certain things, but
I still eat.
I have my cheat days.
Tom: All right.
If you were going to leave for your kids a
few rules, suggestions about how to build
a champion's mindset and then that was it,
they could never talk to you again, what would
you leave them with?
(laughter).
Yeah, we got to think hard.
Laila: You're going to do that to me?
Tom: Got to make it hard.
Laila: Oh my goodness.
How to build a champion's mindset.
Let's see, I'm just going to have to start
running things off.
Tom: Let's do it.
Laila: I don't know how many things I have,
but I'm just going to have to go for it.
First thing is you have to say, "Okay, what
is it that's going to make me happy?
What is it that I want?"
Then you have to map out a plan in order to
get there.
You might have to enlist some help from other
people.
You might not have all these answers for yourself.
It will be too overwhelming to think you have
to do it alone, but that's the first thing
you got to do.
You got to get that right team of people in
place that are going to help you along the
way, know more than you know, be honest with
you so that you don't start thinking your
own shit doesn't stink.
Then you have to be willing to do the hard
work that it takes and you have to go into
it knowing that there's going to be road bumps,
there's going to be challenges.
That's just something you should expect so
when you see it, it's not going to throw you
off.
You have to just have faith and then when
you have your moments of weakness, you have
to ... for me, for one, I believe in a higher
being.
I believe in God.
I'm a spiritual person, so I'll have those
talks and say, "Please give me the strength
to get through this.
Give me the strength to be focused."
I really trust that that's going to come.
I'll just ask for it and then next thing I
know, things just work out.
I feel like that is something that I can always
lean on so no matter what's going on, I'm
going to get through this.
I think that's pretty much it.
There's a lot more that we can say obviously,
but that's really what it comes down to is
knowing that you have what it takes to make
it.
It might not happen in the time that you want
it to happen, but it will happen.
These are all things I think that people who
are successful have said before, so I'm not
really saying anything different.
If I'm talking to a child, I would keep it
simple and put it like that.
I would say write it down.
Write it down and sometimes you're going to
forget because you're going to get emotional
and if you're like me, you're going to maybe
have a bad memory and you might need to refer
to your notes.
That's something that you have to do.
You have to say it, you have to think it,
you have to write it, and you have to really
believe it in your heart no matter what it
is.
Tom: How do you learn from your mistakes and
build from that?
The thing I think in the book that really
hit me the hardest was when you were in an
abusive relationship.
The guy choked you at one point to where you
were legitimately afraid for your life.
How do you come back from that and have a
relationship again?
How did you learn from that and what was the
process?
Laila: A relationship with someone else, you
mean?
Tom: Yeah.
Laila: Everyone has their things they have
to work on.
I've never been that person that goes on to
the next person as if they were the last person.
It was kind of like, "This is a clean slate."
I remember that day because he chased after
me naked.
I ran out of the house and he chased me.
That was very traumatic, but I always look
at myself and I think like, "Why did I let
it get to that point?"
There was all kinds of red flags that were
there and so that's what I do.
Again, I always look at the situation and
say, "Okay, we're not going to deal with somebody
like that again."
Tom: Very smart.
All right, before I ask you my last question,
where can these guys find you online?
Laila: I can be found on my Facebook page,
Laila Ali, Instagram, @thereallailaali.
I have Twitter.
I don't use it that much.
I'm trying to get better with that, but I'm
@thereallailaali on Twitter.
Then of course, Laila Ali Lifestyle is available
at Podcast One and also on iTunes.com.
If you come, I want you to comment on my show,
rate my show because I like to know what people
think.
I'm not at the level you're at.
I'm just getting in there, I'm just getting
started.
Tom: No, your stuff is amazing.
Laila: Thank you.
Tom: Absolutely.
Laila: I'm having a lot of fun.
I'm having a lot of fun doing it.
Tom: That's cool.
All right, what's the impact that you want
to have on the world?
Laila: When it really comes down to it, you
want to just inspire others to be the best
they can possibly be in life.
I just believe that each of us individually
obviously created by God, He did not make
any mistake.
Regardless of whether you believe in God or
not, you were created perfectly as you were
supposed to be.
This life is really about finding out what
that gift is, what we're here for.
Not everyone is going to be Muhammad Ali and
as far as his impact that he had on the world.
I see everyday heroes all the time that are
doing things in the community or sometimes
take two other kids into their household,
raising her sister's kids.
You never know what you're putting in that
kid's heart and mind and he might turn out
to be the next Muhammad Ali.
Everybody has an important job to do and I
think that I just want everyone to, no matter
what it is that you're doing, take care with
it, nurture it.
See the importance of it.
I don't care if you're sweeping floors.
It's just that you got to do your best at
everything that you're doing and realize that
anything ... that you can contribute and on
all different sorts of levels.
I'm not one of these people that's like, "I
want to do this or I want to do that."
It's just that I know that there's something
special about me and I'm comfortable saying
that.
That's really it.
I might have a different answer for you 20
years from now, but that's really all that
I can say.
My most important thing that I wake up and
go to bed thinking about is my children.
I'm 100% responsible for them and even though
they came to this world through me, they don't
belong to me.
I really see that it's really important for
me to raise them a certain way so that they
can go on and make their impact on the world.
Tom: Laila, thank you so much for joining
us.
Laila: Thank you so much.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Thank you.
(applause).
Tom: Guys, this is a universe I promise you
that you're going to want to dive into.
It is human transformation at its absolute
finest of seeing somebody go from a spark
of believing that they could be something
to actually following it through and recognizing
it doesn't matter where you start, it matters
what do you love enough to really fight for
it, to become, to put in the effort.
It's that thing that really to the core of
your being you're willing to fight for, to
become.
On the other side of a lot of hard work is
the person that you can become.
Anybody whose mission is to help not only
themselves but other people realize their
highest level of potential, to actually actuate
that, you know that I'm going to be into it
and that is what you're going to see in spades.
Everything that she's done really touches
on that.
It's absolutely extraordinary, especially
to read her biography and realize.
This to me is one of the most beautiful human
traits ever, to go into a relationship, get
hurt, go into another relationship knowing
you're probably going to get hurt again, and
still open yourself up and be vulnerable and
let somebody in.
That to me is what it means to be human, to
allow yourself that vulnerability, to experience
love.
She's tough as fucking nails and yet is still
a beautiful human being.
It's incredible and that friction, that balance
is what I love.
Come on, how can you not love this face?
But really, that thing to me, that is it.
That's the juice.
Finding the ability to be hard and soft at
the same time, to fight for something and
still be a mother, to be nurturing and open.
That is incredible, that is something that
I definitely want for myself, and I want it
for you guys and you will find it.
Dive into her world, you will see how to strike
that balance.
Guys, this is a weekly show so if you haven't
already, be sure to subscribe.
Until next time, my friends, be legendary.
Take care.
(applause).
Laila, thank you.
Laila: That was deep.
Thank you.
Tom: It was a pleasure.
Hey everybody, thanks so much for joining
us for another episode of Impact Theory.
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Thank you guys so much for being a part of
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my friends.