Kind: captions
Language: en
what is up everybody we are here for
after impact I am posting right now on
Instagram so in the meantime I would say
that I'm your host I'm bill you and I'm
here with the Joetta der which is what I
am typing right now and you should be
following him on Instagram and also
known as Agent Smith which you will find
right there dig it you have a gun I
don't have a gun yeah I guess I love
martial arts like that's my gun you can
stop the bullet but Keanu Hatcher was
gun truth yeah that's not really your
scene is it it's not me so respect so
what's up mr. bill you was up dude and
you were just saying that you're going
to be trying some new stuff here and
that after impact mojo yep so be excited
iterate I like it cold aeration
iteration we got out what's up everybody
what's up Facebook live thanks for
joining us as always this is after
impact this is the show where Tom and I
go deep into the episode of impact
theory which aired yesterday the Ness of
n Edwards is who we're talking about
word you can catch that on YouTube you
can catch it on our podcast really can
catch it everywhere on our web site or
wherever everywhere and this episode is
fantastic so don't miss it we're going
to be diving into it talking about the
episode some of the ideas answering your
questions if you see in the episode but
first I want to tell you who Vanessa
Vanessa van Edwards is if you don't
already know she is a behavioral
investigator and best-selling author of
the book captivate use science to
succeed with people so what does that
mean she studies people their body
language their motivations to decode
personality types and values she does
this in the human behavior lab that she
founded and runs in Portland Oregon and
if you've watched the episode she is
super charismatic very and here's the
best part she started as the most
Awkward person in the world I love that
so yeah let's dive into that right off
the bat do it she talks a lot about
optimizing the way you were wired and I
found it really interesting because you
always talk about looking for early wins
or sort of where you're naturally
predisposed to do something well and
then building on that I don't say that
you talk about early win I do talk about
early wins but my thing is I say that I
don't
ray'll what you're saying but I say that
as a way I get what people are saying
when they say you're born this way or
whatever and so early wins is my way of
acknowledging the reality of that
situation but whether you leverage your
early wins or not to me is irrelevant
you can become whatever you want okay so
that's what's super interesting because
she talks about how people are on a
spectrum of what they can achieve
yeah and she's the analogy that someone
who's of a smaller build a man who's
going to be you know five foot five
would be a better jockey than a
basketball player he'll be a good
basketball player but they just have to
work that much harder to get to a
certain level right and I find it super
paradoxical because she was the awkward
person that built herself out
brick-by-brick might come the super
charismatic person someone gears
thoughts on that yeah so that is is the
debate that's going to rage forever and
look is it a spectrum yes and God do I
think that the guy who's five-foot is
gonna really enjoy the process of
becoming the greatest of all time
probably not in basketball probably not
because there's just so many things
working against them but if for whatever
reason like that is their most true
calling it's the thing and by true
calling I mean it makes them feel alive
that in the process of getting great at
it for whatever reason bike they
absolutely love it to me
that's what matters and I think that
that person would really struggle to on
a like historical timeframe be better
than Jordan be better than LeBron or
Kobe or you know any of the sort of
recognized grades but that doesn't
matter to me like it's the pursuit of
something it's loving that process that
I think really matters and this comes
background to the game you're playing is
is not success it's it's not success
it's brain chemistry and if that guy
who's five-foot absolutely loves
basketball and loves the process and
wants to see like how far they can go
and let's say at the end of their I mean
in sports it's not even to be at the end
of their life it's going to be at the
end of sort of their athletic lifespan
that if he was like I had so much fun
and I felt good about myself and my
willingness to push in like that's
what
and now I really want to expand people's
minds for a second and say that if that
person really wanted to be the greatest
basketball player of all time the answer
for them may not be to immediately begin
practicing basketball why because maybe
what they should be focusing on is
extending the life expectancy of an
athlete like removing that from the
equation so that now we're not talking
about say our late 20s or early 30s sort
of where you tap out but it's finding a
way to push that back and anyone that
thinks that's impossible
replay this video in 50 years right like
I'm telling you someone eventually and
most likely to be the cumulative effects
of really pushing the boundaries of
health and geriatrics and all that but
that is going to be pushed out okay and
so when I look at somebody like Michiyo
kaku who talks about when the
civilization advances far enough they
can ultimately harness the power of a
star like before you get to harnessing
the power of the star which I actually
believe is a real thing that will
ultimately be realized you figured out
aging right and you figured out how to
keep your the the mechanics of the human
body optimized for a very long time you
should also probably figure out how do
you manipulate your genetics so that if
you're only five foot that you can make
yourself taller I mean like all those
things if really truly you want to be
the greatest of all time in basketball
you may have to do yeah you may have to
take an unconventional path yeah and I
get for most people that sounds
absolutely absurd and if that sounds
absurd to you to your audience that I'm
telling you right now you're not
thinking big enough so I leave that open
in my mind only for that reason to make
sure that I never artificially cap my
vision of what's possible now once I hey
I have this like it's uncapped it's
anything is possible then I ask myself
what am I actually going to enjoy the
process of and like a person so if I
were in that situation and I were five
feet tall I would not want to divert
myself from the activity of actually
playing basketball so long to solve
those problems so I would reorient
myself to something else that let me be
in the universe of that or so let's say
I want to be I'm going to because I
personally have a whole thing with being
the greatest of all time that's really
interesting to me so I have obviously
gravitated towards areas where I feel
based on the sort of skill set that I
have and in the beginning
unintentionally developed and then very
intentionally developed I've gravitated
towards areas where I think I can
leverage that and be the greatest of all
time but if I had chosen a different
path or if that wasn't that interesting
to me then I would universe of so become
the greatest sports caster of all time
become the greatest mathematician like
the the guy that did Moneyball right
where he starts looking at statistics
and things like that okay like you're
now still universe of maybe he wasn't a
great player but he could be a great
coach maybe he wasn't a traditionally
great coach but he understands
statistics so it's like you start if you
really want to just be in that universe
and you really want to excel at some
area like finding the way that you can
leverage or or at least not be held back
by the fact that you're five foot in a
world of giant so is becoming the
greatest of all time is that the
filament for you the pursuit of that and
I'm going to put my drink down this is
so interesting to me so here is the
thing that I really reward myself for
having the balls to pursue it honestly I
don't care if I ever get it
I really don't and I won't prize myself
on that because you know me I'll have
moved the goalposts
right so ferociously long before I get
to what I originally thought I was
aiming at that I'll never feel like I
hit it because it is the willingness to
pursue something that grand it is the
process of learning that I love
improving things like that like they
make me giddy you want to talk about
making me feel alive like when I come
across information that I believe is
usable there are a few things that that
have a physiological effect of
excitement on me as much as that yeah
and I think that's a great that's a
great thing you brought that up because
let's talk about the book captivate yeah
and usability I'm halfway through it
we're reading it as a team yes it's
immediately applicable and even the
things she talks about in the episode
are immediately applicable to
life what was your reaction and reading
that book you touched on a little bit of
nation yeah so I was flying back from
visiting that amazing woman right there
my mother-in-law happens to be right off
camera again hello
flying back from London so I knew that I
had you know whatever at nine or 10
hours whatever the flight is back and I
thought okay this is perfect I'm going
to be interviewing her in a couple days
let me dive into the book as part of my
research not so I treat books very
differently if I'm researching for the
episode versus if I'm trying to use it
in my own life so one is I'm sort of
looking for like what's their
perspective on the world what questions
what I want to ask what are themes that
I see that reveal something about them
as a person mm-hmm when I'm doing
something just to read a book I'm saying
how is this applicable in my life what
do I want to use regardless of whether I
think the audience would find it
interesting like how am I going to apply
it in my own life and I started out it
was total research for the interview and
then it was like the insights were just
coming so fast and furious and they were
making me reflect back on myself and I
like couldn't help myself in the process
of trying just to like really be able to
do a good interview I started like
thinking about my wife I'm thinking
about myself and I was like really
enthralled and so probably like I don't
know thirty minutes into let's say the
book is you know eight hours I was just
like doing a full-blown book review for
myself taking notes that I would want
later and it just captured me yeah it
captivated it's a great book highly
recommended to anyone who has watched
the episode or even if you haven't yet
the book is awesome and we're going to
be doing a workshop with the team yeah
and inspire you you brought it up after
reading the book and it sort of inspired
you to make this a part of the company
yeah so that is really something that I
think a lot about and I probably am the
only one with the bordering on
paralyzing fear of what happens to
culture as you scale and because I am so
hell-bent to scale this company and
on it to be huge and think that from
what does my goal of pulling people out
of the matrix necessitate it
necessitates a very big machine and that
means there's going to be a lot of
people that means that there's going to
be a deterioration of the the culture
I've just never seen people get beyond a
certain scale without that and certainly
have not experienced it so reading the
book and getting the insight about
people having different appreciation
languages people having different sort
of primary values like they're just like
all these different things that she
talks about in the book ocean which
really gives you sort of people's makeup
I'll stop shy of saying genetic makeup
but just from you know the way that
they're naturally wired their
environment everything that they come to
the table a certain way and that the
acronym of ocean which watch the episode
I won't do a whole read diatribe of what
that is here but like the five
essentially elements of any one person
that once you understand openness and
conscientiousness and all the different
elements of it you begin to understand
how they perceive the world how they
react to the world and so reading that
and realizing I hadn't really addressed
that in myself that it was way easier
for me to identify it in Lisa I just
thought whoa this could be really
powerful for us as a way to communicate
the ethos of the company so that the the
people that are here now who hopefully
will be the future leaders of this
company that will then touch a lot of
people have a methodology for passing
that on for communicating to each other
a way to immediately get to know their
team which i think is a big part of what
I saw happening in the culture where
people that responded to my natural way
of being could hear what I was saying
could internalize it and became good
leaders people that I wasn't speaking to
in an effective manner
because I wasn't thinking enough about
really structuring the way that I spoke
to the different people so that they
could actually hear it that then they
they weren't internalizing the message
because I wasn't communicating in an
effective manner so it
optimistic that this will be an amazing
strategy and about say technology and if
you really think of her ideas as a
technology that you can use to
understand and convey it could be really
powerful to helping a scale yeah
definitely she says that she wants to
solve people so that she can not be
baffled by their choices which I thought
was a really interesting phrasing and so
she's not solving people to to try to
change them or to try to manipulate them
in a certain way but just to really
understand how to communicate with them
on an individual level yeah so I wanted
to get your thoughts on that as a
business leader as an entrepreneur
especially when you scale to that size
like how how do you maintain that
ability to talk to people at an
individual based on their personality
matrix I think there's only a certain
number of people that you can do that
with and I think it's only effective in
one-on-ones like when I think about what
you have to do when you're in a group
setting and you inevitably so the five
things let's say which I guess I'll just
run through them Oshin stands for
openness conscientiousness extraversion
agreeableness and neuroticism so like
where you fall high medium or low on
each of those traits is really revealing
about the way that you speak gifts and
rewards that you will receive well what
you're going to hear based on the
language that I choose and like all of
those things are just really critical to
understand one person now when you take
them as a matrix as she talks about and
it's like you get those five elements
with sort of three settings there's so
many variable composites yeah that
talking to a group is very very
difficult and knowing that they'll all
interpret it the same way but at least
being aware of that so you can say look
I'm going to be speaking from my matrix
set point like if you want to know me
and this is actually outside of ocean
but is also another important thing like
if you want to understand me one thing -
I will seem crazy unless you
know that I move towards things not away
from things so I don't act out of fear I
act out of excitement so I'm always
moving toward something that excites me
now if somebody is they move away from
things so they protect they look for
stability and safety which by the way is
not a bad thing my wife and I in fact
balance each other out very well because
that's the place that she comes from and
when I throw out especially in the past
before we'd really learned this about
each other when I would throw out like a
crazy idea or something big that I
wanted to do like she would go into what
I perceived as dream killer mode right
like trying to poke holes like asking
all these questions seeming like she's
doubting its validity when in reality
she needed to get comfortable with it
because first she would move away from
the fear the bad things all the things
that could go wrong before she would
then click over into then moving towards
the vision but because I was identified
with very much so very much so and in
you and I like this has been a
fascinating relationship for me because
of every human being that I've ever met
in my life you're the hardest to read
and I don't know if that's because like
we just like take every sort of metric
matrices entry point and we're just like
the opposite like maybe I don't know but
but because of that I have like with
Lisa who has become a tremendous partner
to me because she's so different
you've become a tremendous partner
because you're so different and so we
complement each other which i think is
very very effective so understanding
your matrices the matrices and points
and I am trying to say that but like
understandings for to where you are what
your composite is of all those things is
really really useful definitely I want
to do a couple quick shout outs to our
Facebook live audience and welcome them
here on after impact we have a shout out
to Melanie Morton from Paris I'm not a
nurse what is up there Rhonda hutchman
from Ireland South Ireland international
day Ryan sadang K from the crew
not sure where in the kristonkay but
donk' that amazing that's amazing I'm
probably butchering that but yeah
depending on where but even if even if
pronounced as a donkey that's already
cool so thank you for joining us guys
this is after impact was a show where we
go deep into the episode of impact
theory and today we're talking about
Vanessa vent Edwards who is awesome
here's a question from Rohan Rohan wala
Walker nice all of a car
Tom Vanessa van Edwards said that we
need to know the way we are naturally
wired how do you figure out how you're
wired versus what you can change about
yourself how do you know you should
leverage about yourself and what you can
change
so I actually considered biting this
little phone thing off the microphone
which is we it's a weird instinct that I
have to fight unless you're aware that
your biter is that so you can change
anything literally of god sure here's
really what I think I think that you can
pretty much add anything you can't
always take things away so for that may
not be true but you'd have to let me do
medical interventions like using a
Clockwork Orange just like where they
pin his eyes open and they make him take
epic AK which makes you vomit right and
then watch so he's really into violence
and make him watch violence and then
they make him drink at the CAC and so he
begins to associate the two and so now
anytime he goes to get a violent
situation he started feeling nauseous
which breaks the cycle of violence so
there are probably even things like that
you could do but do you really want to
be doing things like that probably not
for the most part but I think just like
is let's say I'll talk only in the sense
of positive direction empowerment so
that there's sort of natural
inclinations that will catch you in the
back I think did the human animal is
designed for positive and effective
adaptation so I just think there are so
many chemical rewards and all that as
you get better and improve it's
something so when I say you could do
anything that you want add anything
improve anything I'm talking in a
positive direction alright let that just
sort of be stated so I think you I think
you literally can do anything but there
will be things that come easier than
others and so he sort of has two
questions
one if you want to know like where your
natural wiring is she's got a lot of
amazing quizzes go to our website and
take them I would do a worse job than
she will if you just go and they've got
all these well-thought-out questions but
I think asking and answering the
questions honestly is the right answer
questions have been an obsessive focus
in my life my wife and I like when were
together especially if it's like a
vacation mode we're essentially just
asking questions and so we keep it
running like list of questions to ask
each other whenever we go on a trip we
write a bunch of questions down that we
want to ask one of my obsessions with
Q&A which you will attest to I was like
saying the team over and over and over
put me in a position where I'm answering
questions because they come at you from
all these like weird varying angles and
because I verbally process like it's
perfect yeah I can think of something oh
I've never like thought through that if
there's a nuance of the question that
triggers something in my mind it's
fantastic
so asking yourself questions and giving
honest answers I think really is a key
to that I think that where people go
wrong and Vanessa and I talked about
this in the episode is certainly in
Western clever where in every human
culture there's an ideal and when you
don't live up to that ideal you feel
weird so for instance when I was going
through ocean the words that they use
some of them seem inherently positive or
negative so conscientiousness to me is
inherently positive and if you're a
country and just person then you're a
good person and you think about other
people and that's more valuable so when
I realized their definition of
conscientiousness I was actually
crushing Leeloo at yeah because the way
that they define it is you like routine
you like things to be clean and orderly
and you pre think through things all of
which I am astonishingly low at so and
I've talked about it before if I'm about
to go on the trip my wife it is so weird
I literally don't know how she does it
she thinks of everything that we're
going to need down to like the powers
going to be different so we need
different power adapters we need locks
for our cases like she's got it all yeah
I just want to show up with enough to
where that I don't get arrested so I
will start I have to do it this way I
start
my toes and go okay what's going to
touch my skin socks what's going to
touch the socks shoes what do we need
pants oh don't forget underwear belts
and I'm literally just walking up myself
shirt which I'm doing right now I would
forget my necklaces except I put them in
a place where I happen to catch them out
of the corner of my eye all the time
that's the only way those things get
packed and I do that on purpose so I
don't I don't put my necklaces in a box
i drape them over the box otherwise i'd
forget they exist that is that is how i
am and i have not spent the time and
energy to get good at that I believe I
could it doesn't seem worth it I take
all of my toiletries they I keep them in
a bag so that all I have to do is
remember to grab the bag which I've
forgotten by the way because if once I'm
in pack mode if I don't then take that
bag and put it on top of my case I'll
forget to put it in my case this all
which luggage is right like
understanding how you're wired and then
sort of hacking your way into improving
in those areas yeah that's what you've
done yeah and I like her notion of
optimized right so you're gonna optimize
for that because she's got what did she
say like basically you need to know how
you're wired and deal with it nah like
means this is a I push back against that
and she said well how about then
optimize them that's all good yeah that
focus it's all good when I rewatched the
episode I thought yeah yeah optimize I
can get behind that like that too okay
here's another question from Jumaane
Giovanni what's up he says say if
someone wanted to change their character
or personality to accomplish a certain
goal or dream you think someone can
dramatically change their personality
like changing their character traits and
oceans 100% yeah 100%
can you Vanessa did that right a yes B
the human animal wants to feel good
about itself so I promise you if you
change your identity change the things
you allow yourself to feel good about
and do it over and over and over
eventually it does become real if you
need any truth of that notion look at
what happens societies can go positive
based on the the peer pressure of that
group or think of a company or like
think about Enron versus TOMS shoes
right so
Rahn very specifically had this
hyper-competitive culture it was doggy
dog they prided themselves on that and
they didn't see coming the way that that
would create like all this lying and
backbiting and like I don't know how
they didn't see that coming but that's
one of one of the reasons I'd look for
compassion instead of competitiveness
even though I have competitiveness in me
and I think that it's good like
reinforcing it reinforcing it
reinforcing it in a culture like that
goes somewhere really scary and dark
especially unlike on a basketball court
where like it just either you're good or
you're not and like everybody has a
chance to bring their skills to bear in
a game as very clear rules and you
either winning you lose there are so
many places to hide the company that it
really gets terrifying and then TOMS
shoes where it's like everything is
founded on wanting to do good and help
people and all that yes we're here to
make money and yes this is for profit
but at the same time at the very core of
our ethos is one for one so that's peer
pressure at its most apparent right so
one answer was really horrifying and the
other was amazing but that's like it's
not that the people in Enron were bad
it's that they created a reinforcing
cycle an identity cycle that created bad
behavior and now let's really be crazy
and over-the-top like Nazi Germany right
like you you look at that something oh
my god and I'm researching bassem
youssef book he's coming on the show
this dude is so [ __ ] interesting
everybody right now
go figure out who this dude is I'm that
weird dinner that I got invited to he
happen to be one of the guests and I had
like two weeks
don't let me derail too far I had just
two weeks before seeing a documentary
about him and I thought this guy's
suicidal that was literally what so when
I realized who he was at the dinner I
was like you're in like that's suicidal
like how did you oh yeah a hundred
percent I'm only at all times my friend
I know so this was yeah well so good so
anyway we connected he's coming on the
show going to be absolutely incredible
and he's talking about what happened in
Egypt post Arab Spring you want to say
like there's no way I don't know anybody
that could start acting crazy like that
but not only do you know people that
could start acting
like that you ready for the scary truth
you could start acting crazy like that
like if you allowed yourself to change
your identity you got in a group that
reinforced negative [ __ ] like just to
fit in with the group do you think you
could start acting crazy like that no
absolutely not I knew the answers I got
no because I would remove myself from
the group but only because I know how
dangerous how easy like I am as
susceptible it's just that I've spent so
much time and energy building an
identity that is resistant to that it's
not impervious and so I would have to
get out because if I stayed in I
wouldn't be able to stay sane long
enough like I have no interest in
playing the role of the double agent
because I can only imagine what that
does to your real value system so the
bad mojo let's talk about personality a
little bit so Vanessa says that you know
she was book smart growing up but she
didn't focus on her PQ which I'm
assuming his personality quotient for
her and yeah
how important is personality and
personality skills in business in life
which I know because I know you're big
on psychology yeah and you're big on
understanding how the mind works and how
people perceive things but personality
itself can we talk about beauty for a
second okay as someone who knows that
whatever amount of looks I have will
fade it's terrifying to me that for
reproduction purposes we respond to be
you can't stop it and going back to what
you're saying can you change anything I
truly truly believe that when my wife is
a bag of wrinkles I will still be
sexually attracted to her because there
are things you can do to additively also
now be attracted to that
but that doesn't mean that I'll stop
finding a 23 year old attractive which
by the way I picked that number because
they did this interesting study where
for guys no matter how old the guy is 23
is attractive and for women there's like
a sort of a five-year period of
attraction that follows their age up to
like 40 so I think that that is losing
my train of thought so
anyway remember criminality - yeah so
you can additively add things to that
but the reality is that humans respond
to a certain thing thank you so humans
respond to a certain thing so
personalities like Beauty it's just
there are things in personality that we
will all respond to this is interesting
god what book was this in doesn't matter
I recently read a book and I think the
guest came on because I think I read it
no oh yeah I think it was in in fact it
was it was embarking up the wrong tree
with our boy Eric Barker I don't think
we talked about this in the show though
that even if you if you ask somebody
who's pessimistic to fake being
optimistic if you ask somebody who's
introverted to fake being extroverted
they'll be happier even though it's fake
they know it's fake you simply ask them
to fake it and even though it's fake
you've merely asked them to fake it they
do they they are happier so they're just
things and the reason they're happier
people start responding to them
differently they feel more powerful and
confident people respond to them as if
they are more powerful and confident
even though everybody involved knows
it's fake you can faking if your boss
knows that you're flattering them and
it's fake
they still like you better even though
they know it's like like they're it's
you everywhere 100% and this is so this
is all to me like elements of
personality right that you don't want it
to be true you want to believe that
naturally I just feel solon and quiet
and internal and people should love me
for who I am but they're not going to
they're not going to and people are
hardwired to respond to certain things
and that's just it and so you can have
better luck like if your souland
introvert and all that you can hope for
the school of fish thing which is people
respond to people that look and act like
them so you can find other sullen and
withdrawn people but good luck having a
relationship because neither of you are
like putting that energy and effort out
into like really build a connection so
personality matters certain personality
types are more effective at getting
other people to connect with you
connection is always advantageous so yes
personality matters there are certain
traits that you should work on being
extroverted is useful
learn to do it yeah I agree and in her
book because I'm reading it right now
she has some really practical things you
can start to work on and she one section
is all about like networking events or
social events and how to interact and
just like really easy you know
conversation sparkers is what she calls
them ways to engage people that are
going to be more beneficial that they're
going you're going to have stronger
connections they're going to remember
you it's just talks about that's very
important being if you're forgettable
that that's not a good thing right if
people don't remember your name when
they spent you before it's not a good
thing so I'm going to thank cool let's
go over to our Facebook live audience
and just welcome them back thank you for
joining us on after impact we're about
midway through our discussion of Vanessa
van Edwards episode on impact theory
which launched yesterday you can check
it out on our website you can check it
out on YouTube you can check it out on
your podcast app of choice iTunes
stitcher overcast whatever you like and
by the way if this is adding value to
your life please do share share this
content yes share this content
it helps us getting guests numbers is
like the most important thing because
the first thing and potential guest does
is look at the numbers so sharing this
content helps us build the community
which helps us then get better guests
and then also we want to pull people out
of the matrix like that's the mission it
was funny somebody asked me the other
day or maybe I just asked myself I
remember how this came up but whether or
not I care enough about film and
storytelling and comic books and all
that stuff that I would work as hard as
I'm working and put the kind of capital
into it that we are and the answer is no
and I was surprised by that I thought
wow it actually isn't important enough
for me to work this hard for but what is
is pulling people out of the matrix
that's the the real thing for me when
somebody comes up and says I did
something that I wouldn't have done
positive and empowering because of your
content like that's the juice so helping
us build the numbers will help us get
more people out of the matrix which
hopefully resonates with you guys and
hopefully is mean
to you and is more than just numbers not
about the numbers yeah and here's a
selfish argument for you if you can help
us share the content helps us get our
numbers up which brings on good guess
and then you can take that information
when you watch the episode word truth
works both ways here is a question from
the Bonnie
Noel wants to know did she look at your
wallet she did I actually and I think we
recorded that my wife didn't only bind
this column so I can't ever make eye
contact with her but we recorded that
downstairs we should turn that into a
clip yeah and put that out and she if I
remember right actually laughed out loud
when I handed it to her because it was
like the definition of low
conscientiousness yeah because it's like
this hi Maya mega mega moon is is like
just a money clip and bike just stuffed
in there she probably could have
described your wallet before you hit it
almost certainly bills out of order not
facing the same direction like yeah yeah
but I can't remember if we did the
squiggle hug or not which I people
commented on yeah they're me too haven't
that makes me super uncomfortable if we
did it I can't remember if we did it or
not if we did I didn't like it a and B I
have no intention of ever doing squiggle
hugs again I don't like doing things and
make me feel silly yeah I know you're
not really no silly I don't groove on
silly okay
just surprising even a little bit to me
yeah because goofy I don't mind silly is
what's the difference in goofing so you
know that's the only reasonable question
to ask goofy is like no worry about
whether you look stupid or I want to use
the word silly but I'm stuffing myself
you know if you look upward or laugh at
funny like I don't mind being laughed at
that doesn't bother me because my
internal compass of Who I am is strong
but what I do mind is internally doing
something that makes me like squirmy
like just feel silly things make me feel
that way right
like over I don't like juvenile
that's perfect okay and that like like
that's very juvenile yeah yeah got it
here's a question from Vinny Vinny
Brigance because I've been in boot camp
I love this episode especially the part
about ambivalent relationships and
harmful effects it got me thinking about
limiting ambivalent ambivalence from my
life in general Tom do you have any
thoughts about the role of mm how and
the role that ambivalence plays in
limiting people from building the life
they want yeah so I'm going to use a
different word because so ambivalence is
like I guess ambivalence is I like it
and I dislike it right so I am almost
certain that's true and most people
think of em Bivins can you look this up
I want to make sure that I'm right about
this there's one word that people take
to mean indifferent and it really means
like and dislike sort of equally high
understanding whether you're just not
sure exactly how you feel
look look it up because that's how most
people take it and I think that it's
actually different but we'll know soon
enough
I like frenemies people that are your
friend it's a state of having mixed
feelings or contradictory exactly right
so it's it's opposite ends it isn't
indifference it right it's really those
opposite ends frenemies to mean and as I
try to differentiate I guess frenemies
just has like a more visceral thing for
me but it is literally the same thing
because they are your friend but they're
also your enemy and I have had powerful
front of me is in my life and it's so
grotesque and my wife is saying that
we're going to be posting the wallet
video later today so frenemies are
sinister and when I read an article and
I don't know if it's citing the same
research that she's talking about but I
read this article that was like the most
damaging thing in your life is not
enemies like those are flanks you know
they are easy to spot it's the frenemies
it's the people that are in your inner
circle man and sometimes they're
supportive and other times they're not
and you never know what you're going to
get like that shitty dude that is super
shitty that's a bad friend
and they're where here's the most
terrifying thing about evil
they never see themselves as evil so
using frenemies are evil I'm saying
frenemies er how about this right now
I'm thinking of very specific people
yeah and there is an evil streak in them
and my definition they're just being
human right they're just being human and
the banality of evil is where I come
down on the evil scale it's the
insidiousness of just being a human it's
the like Nazi Germany it's the
insidiousness of some people just fall
prey to the group they just do and
following orders to them is okay like
how this many years after Nazi Germany
and all of the like people talking about
how they said they were just following
work how could you ever say that like
how could you ever go well my boss told
me to how how do you let those words
flip out of your mouth like that's
madness if I ever found myself about to
say it I'd be like well I have to change
everything about my life because it it's
a known problem so falling prey to known
problems was a little crazy to me so
it's that insidiousness so when I say
evil that's what I mean they're not like
mustache twirling villains who just want
to ruin things into the world crumble
it's they've allowed themselves an
identity that requires your destruction
in order for them to feel good about
themselves
that is what I mean when I say evil
that's just crazy like so when I say I
want to beat somebody evil to me is what
Tonya Harding did to Nancy Kerrigan
that's the right way right Tonya Harding
was one with the club Nancy Kerrigan's
on the got club because she wanted by a
second it was her boyfriend but she
wanted to win so badly like if she had
to crack the knees of the other girls
and so be it that's evil that come on
man
like how can you take pride in that like
how could you feel good about that
victory that's just madness to me so I
have had people in my life that clearly
wanted to weaken and wound me to make
sure that I didn't beat them so it's the
notion of slow down so I can lead and I
remember the first time that occurred to
me I was like this [ __ ] wants me
to slow down so he can leave like that's
crazy like why how do you feel good
about that
so yeah that's that's me
is super icky those that I've had
frenemies like that shame on me for
letting them in my life and how long it
took me to realize that they were both
friends and enemies and that that's it
took me reading it to go that actually
is way more toxic than if I just knew
they were my enemy do you have any
advice on what to do once you identify
someone as oh yeah what what do you do
what do you think I'm going to say I'm
going to say you cut them out of your
life immediately you just you know stop
associating yourself with that person
but how do you actually do that
well you're 100% correct that's
absolutely what I would say cut them out
of your life with like prejudice how do
you actually do that by having the balls
to make a change that's just the truth
I'm not sure that I agree with Vanessa's
notion of like breaking up with friends
I have thought so much
frenemies yes but people that have
become stale as she said I don't know
what do you think about that and then I
your mind you actually answer the
question I know you've got anybody like
something like do you think you should
should you call up the friend that
you've gotten stale with and be like
we're officially breaking up no I don't
because I think two things one if you're
feeling that way the other person is
probably feeling that way too and I
think the relationship will just
naturally kind of take a backseat and I
also think that it's possible in the
future that friendship could be
rekindled Andres parked by something and
you don't know what you don't know how
your life is going to change so why
would you ever sort of create an end
stop on something I think you can
successfully sort of compartmentalize
them out and focus on other people and
it's not going to take any mental energy
away from those other people
I totally agree and I I find her so
crushingly insightful that I wanted to
just take every piece of advice she had
that was the one I didn't even want to
try was I
yeah so and she may mean when it's still
drawing on your time and energy that you
have to shut it down if it's not working
for you but I just think in my
experience most of the times it just
sort of naturally goes away because very
fair I'm so curious to know what my wife
thinks on this one because she's like
gotta have things out like that's a
thing for her and I'm not like that like
things just fade away
I have no beef with that yeah yeah my
wife may actually want to break up no
I'd be curious to talk to her about that
we should talk about that in
relationship teri so and then how do you
actually cut people out of your life so
yeah frenemies yeah how you got
frenemies which is the only people I'm
actively interested in cutting out it is
I love Vanessa Ben and we're saying you
and I were talking about this I love her
thing about brutal honesty so my fantasy
in life is to at all times be brutally
honest and at all times receive brutal
honesty that is such a gift it is the
gift that I want from everybody I
encounter in my life and when we were
talking the reason that I said so you
and I were talking about how to handle
like something else another business
relationship and I was like I'm I know
the strategic thing to do is to
soft-shoe with them and not give them
brutal honesty and I said but I'm really
worried what you'll learn about me if I
do that and what do I do
because strategically for the business
it is so clearly the right answer if for
no other reason than hey down the road
maybe this is a rekindled relationship
maybe it's better and to have said like
hey this is that weird thing that I
think there's it just makes this
relationship untenable and at the end of
the day we decided yet you've got to be
a little bit you've got to be delicate
you've got to be thoughtful you've got
to be strategic as the word I like so
you have to be strategic but I still do
worry I really do worry the only thing
is I know over time that I can be
brutally honest with you
and be receptive to your brutal honesty
and we'll have our own relationship but
it was very important for me to say out
loud
I get that you're going to judge my
behavior like if they'll do it for you
they'll do it to you write that one down
boys and girls if they'll do it for you
they'll do it to you and so that and
that was really important for you for me
for you to acknowledge that like the
fact that you were thinking of it you
know that deeply and you're you're
having that thoughtfulness of around the
other relationships and sort of the
ripple effect it might have was super
important to me but I think to Vanessa's
point and to what you just said we sort
of know I know what your personality
matrix is and I know that we can speak
in one way and then another person we
might need to speak in another way and
only because it's just not effective to
speak in the same way to every person
truth but again in order for that to
work you have to know where everyone
stands how they like to communicate and
you have to communicate those things and
actually talk about them yeah and then I
guess it's also revealing a truth which
may be an inconvenient truth I loved
that notion
yes that's inconvenient very nice way to
say it but it reveals the truth of
strategy is really high on my list of
values and importance and I was thinking
today in the shower
there it is very inconvenient for me to
admit how important building this
business is to me like the things I'm
prepared to give up to make that happen
are extreme and it was inconvenient to
realize like how extreme what what do
you mean it was incoming I am being
vague on purpose but what it why is it
inconvenient because it's like loving
kittens and puppies is just smart it's
good PR and when you realize like I
don't give a [ __ ] about kittens
I don't by the way this is all real
that's why I don't have cats but I'm not
going to go on an aggressive campaign
talking about I don't like kittens
but like for instance I'm willing to not
have kids I care more about building
this company than I do kids that's
decidedly inconvenient yeah so okay
fair enough here's a question from Cory
Cory G rota sup Cory what are some of
the things you do to incorporate the
things that you learn from your guests
in your life is it on a daily basis
where you stay vigilant on watching for
chances to apply it or do you
incorporate it more by chance of
realization and I'm going to stop you
because normally if I miss the beginning
of a question I can figure it out in the
question I realized like the second word
of this was the most important word and
I was thinking about how I just said
that thing about kids and one of the
person who that hurts the most in the
world which is my mother-in-law so you
want to talk about inconvenient yeah
that would be one of the reasons that is
decidedly inconvenient is she is
clutching her face right now so sorry
what was the beginning of the question
the question is essentially how do you
apply the learnings from guests on the
show you live them on a daily basis are
you super vigilant or is it just kind of
do you just realize these things come
together by chance because you've
studied them and you're now realizing
things in your own life that's
interesting it is all of the above so I
try to use them immediately aggressively
and on a daily basis so let's say I
learned 30 things from Vanessa van dead
words I will try to use them all right
away the fact that the team is going to
be doing her whole thing like that tells
you this authority of like how much I
want to use it Oshin I was thinking
about it myself my wife like really
trying to understand that and then some
things the vast majority of them fade
away and they're just not usable
frequently enough for them to stay top
of mind but some of them stick
immediately because I whoa that had real
impact and so then I'll use those more
and more and more and they become a real
integrated part of my life and the
element of chance and all of that is why
was it usable right then in that moment
it may have been well that's where we
were in the lifecycle of the business
and strapped like I am well aware
strategies and techniques that I'm using
now are not the same strategies and
techniques that I was using 10 years ago
and not just because I've gotten better
because my life has changed and so the
applicability of that thing is very
different so like a lot of times now
very different now I'm trying to
practice finishing all my thoughts not
assuming people know where I'm going
that the applicability now in this phase
of my life is very different than it
would have been back then one thing that
I find fascinating and that I love about
all the Q&A questions that I get is
people are different stages of what I've
been through right so now it's like oh
yeah like like forgetting Lisa and I now
like man our money is as intermingled
like the connective tissue in our lives
is just inextricable like there would be
I don't even like to talk about these
scenarios which I've talked very deeply
about but if we were to separate for
whatever reason there there would be no
way of saying like this is mine and this
is yours like it like that doesn't exist
so but remembering that one of the
smartest things we did one of these
smartest things we ever did at the
beginning of our relationship was have
separate spending accounts because the
way that we spend money is so or was
it's not so much ignore but the way that
we used to spend money was so
dramatically different and I so did not
value the things that she spent money on
and I felt righteous indignation that
she should be able to tell me how to
spend my money yeah so that would have
been a disaster and also it was really
cool when we were super poor to be able
to say like I have saved my spending
money to buy you something like that was
super meaningful so yeah it's really fun
to like get to revisit those phases in
my development to be able to give
somebody advice and remember the
techniques that I was using
remember the strategies so that was a
very long way of saying yes there is
sort of a chance to where your life is
will determine like what sticks to the
bone and what doesn't yeah awesome and
then he has another question and that is
what was your biggest takeaway from
Vanessa I think that at the end of the
day the thing that's going to be the
most usable is the notion of primary
value in ocean which i lumping hate them
what's their appreciation language and
man appreciation language that one is
interesting so any episode she talks
about like everybody has a thing or
certainly a book I actually don't
remember how deep we went to the episode
but in her book she talks about how
everybody is a primary language of
appreciation oh she does talk about is
the example of her friend which tried to
give her my friend employee tried to
give her a raise
and she could tell like person's not
really into the raise like she's giving
these what does she call them negative
micro micro negs something like that
where they they give like facial
expressions body language stuff where
you know like they're not that into it
yeah and I thought oh my god that's so
important because you want to give the
gift that you would understand and
certainly from a behavior like I get not
everybody wants the movie Armageddon so
not to my wife's sister who was given
that movie and she was like what are you
doing like that is so not interesting to
me from her fiance that tells you a
little something who by the way is a fan
of the the show hi and giving the gift
that the other person actually wants is
super super important and I have a
hypothesis about you by the way that
we'll have to talk about it about what
because you said that don't tell me that
how there's a name for it acts of
service that acts of service are your
love language so you want your white
electricity correct yeah how you like to
receive yeah is acts of service and we
were both like whoa how do you pull that
off in like a business setting and maybe
it really is by the way it is entirely
possible that it is hey man look I know
you're overloaded right now like I want
to take one of those things off your
plate it may be that sort of dead simple
and maybe that's a great way to show you
appreciation in fact what's something
right now what can I take off your plan
to pull it - on a list you should let's
do it I think this is real and then I
may be good to people to sit need to
review like give me a nasty one one you
really don't want to deal with because
that's how much you mean to me and this
company quite frankly okay bear with us
here this is just a moment so whilst he
looks up that task I have a hypothesis
about maybe what a secondary thing is
that's important to him I'm really
curious to have that conversation and
find out if that really is meaningful
but understanding sort of where people
fall on that like
it's going to be a meaningful gift how
they view the world they move towards
things away from things ocean ocean is
something very very much I highly
recommend everybody to do a breakdown of
themselves and the important people in
their life it will save you a lot of
stress
all right you have an anti horse so you
know I'm always big I'm trying to push
you to do more written content yeah one
of the things that we want to create
here and that has been asked for by our
audience is a guide to your mindset
mantras and mental triggers I will do
that for sure does that feel like an act
of service though because that was
something I had to do anyway so I guess
done was from having to bug me it was
but it was it was going to be I was
looking at as more of a collaboration
like we were going to start outlining
those things based on previous content
and then have you come in add your
thoughts and we were going to do if I
make it I really finish because I know
you're not big on written content but
yeah you would just do it chase can you
just put a note for me to do that and I
will do that awesome thank you cool
appreciate ways and now when I deliver
that in a very reasonable time frame you
have to let me know if that actually was
affected okay
because I wanted obviously I see this is
a very long term relationship so I want
to make sure that we get good at will
that appreciate that for sure okay we'll
sign question we okay so I have a few
more questions she talked about self
self soothing which I thought was really
interesting yeah how do you sell - and I
wanted to ask you how to use soul food
alright this is important and people
used to ask me a lot like what what like
if you really had to put your finger on
what makes a great entrepreneur
my answer is self soothing the ability
to self soothe really fast really fast
and my goal was to get to the point
where I could self soothe before the
reaction hit my face like even
micro-expressions that you would you
would literally have no idea that I was
going through something difficult
because I had structured my identity I
had gotten control of my emotions to the
point where that like horrible feeling
of whatever was the trigger for an
empowering habit loop that it kicked
into something in my identity something
in my mantras like all of that stuff
that would allow me to self to just in
sanely rapidly and the weight
self-soothing is absolutely critical and
maybe the most important thing to
becoming great at anything so being an
entrepreneur to me is a stand-in for a
mindset that allows you to be successful
at the highest level at anything so it
doesn't just have to be building a
business and what I'm doing in that is
focusing entirely on identity and saying
okay my identity is that of the learner
my identity is that of somebody who has
an ego has a massive ego but as ego is
built around something that is anti
fragile so that it isn't based on Who I
am
today it's based on my willingness to
become something so that's what I was
talking about earlier I don't care if I
ever actually become the greatest of all
time but what I value in myself is the
willingness to believe that I can do it
to take the active steps to actually
become it to be willing to risk right if
I didn't believe that I could become the
greatest of all time running a studio
become the greatest of all time at doing
the interview show that the two weren't
interconnected I wouldn't spend millions
of dollars of my own money trying to
build this thing right so it you have to
have that arrogance of belief now
walking is the act of falling forward
with the belief that your foot will
catch you before you fall on your face
that's all walking is like when you
really think you actually alter your
center of balance your gravity and
running is that to the extreme to where
you're actually falling forward a little
bit and you catch yourself and catch
yourself and catch yourself at such a
predictable speaking of things falling
such a predictable pattern okay she's
making sure is not the light the look on
your face that you may actually need to
be concerned about this which is such my
personality until I saw that any face
without everything will be fine so it is
the act of altering your balance so that
you're falling and catching yourself and
that is how I feel every day every time
I spend some ridiculous amount of money
I'm having that moment of hey I'm
falling but I know I'll catch myself I'm
falling I'll catch myself I'm falling
I'll catch myself that is my life and I
so value in myself that I have built the
identity of knowing I
we'll do whatever it takes within my
code of ethics to catch myself that I
don't have the fear and so we just had
somebody here yesterday who said what's
the like the scariest thing you've ever
gone through as an entrepreneur and I
was like I my brain doesn't work like
that yeah so I and the reason my brain
doesn't work like that is I have a
massive tolerance for risk and the funny
thing for me is that hasn't always been
the case so I used to be an incredibly
fearful person and I've just trained
that out of myself coming back to what
started this question which is how do I
get to that point and the answer is
identity identity identity like once
you've trained yourself to have that
identity once you've trained your
emotions like your negative emotions to
be triggers for positive habit loop you
can self soothe very very rapidly so I
highly encourage people to do that so
you do it in real time
in other words yeah and it didn't start
like that I mean so for anybody that's
hearing all this stuff for the first
time I have a very long fuse that I will
say is is nature I have a long fuse I
just don't get angry very fast and I'm
very very grateful for that but once I
get angry my downfall historically had
been I would stay angry for a very long
time measured in hours or even days and
so I just came to the realization that
that didn't serve me do and believe that
which moves you towards your goals that
mantra forced me to change my behavior
and so I wrote a letter to myself
because the problem is when somebody
upsets you usually of a reason to be
upset they actually did something that
an objective audience would go yeah that
was kind of shitty didn't do it to be
evil bringing it all back round they're
just they just said something that they
were thinking to themselves or whatever
wasn't then to piss you off like they
didn't even mean that now they feel
terrible but because you really have the
legitimate right to be hurt and upset
you invest in that and it becomes bigger
and so that happened to me and I just
thought wow this really doesn't serve me
and so I wrote myself a letter and I
said hey you know that you have no
agenda so you're not telling you to calm
down so that
because the other person's going to tell
you the calm down so they don't have to
feel bad and you know you're not telling
yourself for that you're telling
yourself that because every time that
you've come out of not being annoyed me
more you've thought wow I wasted a lot
of time being angry so with no motive
other than to see you get what you
actually want out of life
I'm telling you me just shake it off and
use the things you know about neuro
Chemistry faking a smile laughing out
loud different body posture all of that
your mantras to snap out of it and snap
out of it right now and value yourself
on how rapidly you can come out of that
so if it takes you an hour you don't get
to be stoked on that but if it takes you
three minutes you get to be stoked on
that if you like
don't say anything negative to the other
person you're going to be really stoked
on that and then where I'm at now like
if you can get it to the point where it
doesn't even cross your face or the
thing I'm really valuing myself for now
let's say that Lisa says something that
is like whoa that's like actually really
hurtful
I will pride myself on being able to
verbalize without getting upset why
that's upset me why that's difficult how
I would like to see it handled in the
future or if like it's an insecurity to
just say hey look I know you well enough
to know you did not mean to upset me by
that but I want to be really honest
because I don't want you to wonder like
why my mood too shifted or whatever this
is why that upset me
it's an insecurity it's not your job to
fix it but I want you to be aware like
this and being able to like super calmly
and with the acknowledgement of all the
pettiness and insecurities just be able
to talk through it like I really value
myself for being able to do that so that
is again a long way of saying it didn't
start real time right I mean it started
in the moment but I couldn't get myself
out of it very fast and so I had used
techniques that I knew that would at
least shorten that time yeah and she
talks about there's two buckets for her
it's the use self-soothe alone by
herself like by writing or spending time
with yourself or with other people where
you sort of problem-solve with those
with those folks and it's funny for me I
used to be the alone type and then I got
married
and then I became the with my wife like
with other people problem solving this
is so fascinating tell me more which is
terrible for a marriage I'll just say
the alone thing
no the going and trying to self-soothe
with your spouse all the time I think
whoa okay if you do it to my colon why I
think why and why did you make the
transition so if you were alone and that
was advantageous in a marriage
why then when you got in the marriage
did you tried effing it was I was
unaware I think it just happened organic
and so you were like this is dope I've
got somebody here I can talk about oh we
can figure out so you didn't want to be
alone once you had somebody you trusted
implicitly you were like awesome I can
finally share potentially yeah
potentially but I've been trying to do
more alone lately and I think that's
actually been good for those listening
on the podcast I have a look of such
confusion on my face this is so
interesting and diametrically opposed to
the lessons that I've learned really
yeah so keep going so why why does it
become corrosive not your word mine but
why does it become damaging to the
relationship to process with the other
person I think if you're doing it a lot
let's say you're in a really bad
situation in your job and you're
constantly coming home and you're upset
or you're pissed off about something at
work and you're constantly then sharing
those burdens with your spouse or
significant other whoever you're living
with I think I think it's unfair
ultimately I think it's great and that's
what they're there for to support but to
an extent like at some point you can
become a runaway train with that and you
have to check yourself and I think you
can rely on that instead of doing the
work that you're talking about which is
trying to actually in real time bring
yourself down from that that state that
weird state so yeah I think it's we've
even learned with each other that we
need to set limits on that and not go
into it too deeply interest and yeah and
I think actually falling back on sort of
the self soothing alone has been very
effective
Wow man know thyself this is the power
of like whatever advice you give and I'm
very aware of this it's not going to be
right for everybody sure because I would
aggressively give
different advice yeah and so here's what
I've learned I am very much an internal
soother like I don't want or need
external help with that yeah but in that
process when you have somebody that
close to you and maybe this is just the
dynamic of my wife and I my wife is so
perceptive to my like most micro moods
that she feels then disconnected like I
know something is wrong and it would
just help me so much to know what that
thing is and then the absolute worst
part of all of this for me because I
don't like this is if I for I have zero
instincts to verbalize in those moments
but if I force myself to just vomit out
the petty insecure angry whatever the
emotion is if I force myself to get it
out I will feel better much faster yeah
so and I'm like this is so annoying
because I don't want to talk about it I
want to go off and like and this is more
than than just a mood this is like when
you're really chewing on a big problem
right yeah so I have found my every
instinct impulse and desire is to go off
and deal with it by myself and that
created friction in my marriage and so I
have had to force myself to like talk it
out talk it out
talk it out but we have rules of
engagement when I if if you want me to
be in talk it out mode then I'm going to
be hyper feminine don't [ __ ] try to
solve my problem just let me say the
thing that's annoying me and in hearing
it out loud then almost certainly I'll
know how to solve the problem already
yeah and so if but if you don't let me
get in to like if you like imagine when
somebody tries to like tell you how to
solve the problem you're in the middle
of vomiting it's like clapping their
hand of your mouth and now the vomits
like squirting through fingers like
edges a way more horrific experience let
me just check it out on the floor and
then we clean it up and move on this is
a wonderful analogy on really helping
everybody
learning that visual and so and I
recognize that as as being a
frustratingly feminine trait of like
don't bring it up if you don't want my
help
like and I will give myself some credit
for once I've chucked it up on the floor
then the only thing I'm interested in
the universe is a solution so I don't
want like and this has been a big
frustration between my wife and I she
lingers a little bit longer in that I
just want to be heard and so I all bet
have to set a stopwatch like what's an
okay like I've heard you I have all
these solutions from my perspective
obviously how long do I have to wait
before I can just say here's what I
think you should do we've straight I've
done that seven o'clock we said like you
have 10 minutes to talk about this
that's genius
yeah and but that's that's this so that
you don't wallow in it for exactly I see
and oh I see but it works learn the
strategies that work for you and utilize
the [ __ ] out of them that's awesome I
think we're out of time
this is real fun in real time yeah I
think you so much for joining us as
always these are as cathartic for us as
they are for anybody else so thank you
guys so much for joining us if you
haven't already really checked out
Vanessa van Edwards please do that her
book is amazing all of her content is
amazing it was really awesome to have
her on the show very very grateful to
her and each and every one of the guests
if you haven't already be sure to
subscribe and share this content please
that would be amazing and would be the
way that would be the gift that we would
receive very very well so please do show
the content and until next time my
friends be legendary
take care
you