Kind: captions
Language: en
you can come to me and tell me you
screwed up and that doesn't bother me at
all it's it's not coming to me and
telling me you screwed up when you did
I embrace failure you know I win or
learn right people can make mistakes and
own up to it that's a success as far as
I'm concerned everybody welcome to
impact Theory you're here my friends
because you believe that human potential
is nearly limitless but you know that
having potential is not the same as
actually doing something with it so our
goal with this show and company is to
introduce you to the people and ideas
that will help you actually execute on
your dreams now today's episode is a
little bit different than normal this
was shot off-site at an event called
abundance 360 which is put on by Peter
Diamandis it is an absolutely amazing
event and gave us access to somebody
that for scheduling reasons we have
never been able to actually get on the
show so I'm really excited that we're
able to bring him to you this way but
this was shot off-site we know though
that you guys are still gonna enjoy it
alright today's guest is a ridiculously
successful serial entrepreneur in both
biomedicine and aerospace a self-made
billionaire he holds more than 140
issued and pending patents and has
helped pioneer the use of stem cells to
treat a range of life-threatening
diseases he's the co-founder of human
longevity Inc as well as the chairman
founder chief scientific officer and
former CEO of Celgene cellular
therapeutics one of the world's largest
human cellular therapy companies and his
insights and discoveries have literally
reshaped the industry of human longevity
he's authored over 100 published
chapters articles and abstracts on a
variety of related topics and he is
quite simply the information ages
Renaissance man a neurosurgeon a
biomedical scientist adjunct associate
professor and successful entrepreneur he
serves on numerous boards including
bionic laboratories cryo port meiosis
and provost of diagnostics but is also
widely renowned for his discoveries of
the existence of pluripotent stem cells
in the placenta he served in the
military is a jet rated commercial pilot
with thousands of flying hours and more
than 60 military and civil
aircraft and the founder of the rocket
racing league an extreme Aerospace
Corporation this guy is impossible to
put in a box he's both an MD and a PhD
who's as likely to be found in a
research lab as he is in the boardroom
he's received countless awards for his
breakthrough work in both biomedicine
and aviation including the Fred J
Epstein Lifetime Achievement Award and
the Thomas Alva Edison award in both
2007 and 2011
his most recent endeavor called
cellularity is poised to define the
future of regenerative medicine bringing
us one step closer to meaningfully
extended human life so please help me in
welcoming the man who is appointed
commissioner of cancer research by New
Jersey Governor Chris Christie the
chairman and CEO of cellularity dr.
Robert Hariri super excited to have you
here
full disclosure everybody Bob and I know
each other off-camera and have now for a
few years just pretty crazy so I'm
really amped up to get you on and give
you a chance to talk about some of the
things that I know you've got going on
in your life and I think the the most
fun place to start with you is you've
been absurdly successful by every like
worldly measure but you're still super
driven what drives you like why the new
company cellularity why are you doing
that it's going to take an incredible
amount of time energy and effort so what
is the goal with the company and why you
so driven to make it happen well you
know I think it goes back to one of our
early conversations when I remember
flying into into the little tiny airport
near your offices outside of LA and I
picked you up remember yes and we
started talking about where we thought
cellular medicine and stem cells we're
going to go to change the lives of
people that we care about and we talked
about the fact that a new revolution in
medicine was upon us and we got very far
along but we haven't completed the
journey yet and so part of my part of
the driving force behind cellularity and
my efforts to lead us into this next
evolution is to bring all of these
therapeutic
products to the mainstream just like you
know the remarkable things you've done
in nutrition would not have been
possible if it was unapproachable
economically right so that was part of
this whole mission so cellularity is a
product of 20 years of effort to turn
living cells into medicines identify the
best places where they work and then
deliver them in a scalable economical
way so that everybody has access but why
do you give a like it's gonna be so
much work and when I even just thinking
about what you had to do to like pull
some of this technology out of the old
company and keep going like I wanted to
take a nap just after hearing that story
and that's just to get started so what
what is driving you like as an
individual I think you know same kind of
stuff that drives you we we know that we
have the ability to change the world we
know that we've already taken steps in
that direction if we don't follow it to
the end game people like you and me will
wind up feeling totally unfulfilled and
frustrated and and you know listen in a
practical sense I've got children and
and my children should have the benefit
of growing up in a world where things
that terrified people cancer autoimmune
disease serious degenerative diseases
should be something that's managed just
like you manage a common cold and and I
know that we have in our in our Arsenal
today tools that can do this there's
enormous value for the public and for
people we care about and I know that a
lot of what you've done has been driven
by your own concern for people in your
circle family friends etc you know you
helped revolutionize the way people
address issues around weight and so on
I feel the same passion to do what we
can for people that that I care about my
brother my brother has been stricken
with with inflammatory bowel disease and
so on you know I've lost I've lost
family members to degenerative diseases
of aging I know we can do a better job
and so that's what drives me it's you
know that's that
the preap the premiere factor but
there's also the remarkable rewarding
opportunity of building a business that
can be so highly valued that all of the
stakeholders internally the employees
the the consultants the advisors the
shareholders and the public get to
benefit from that value as well yeah
it's you know I often tell my listeners
that we're living through a change in
times right now partly because of social
media and and I definitely think about
it through that lens I think look at no
other time in human history have you
been rewarded for as a marketing vehicle
been rewarded for being truly an
authentic and good person like wanting
good things from people did not use to
historically be the most potent
marketing vehicle you could have but now
it really is and because of that I'm
finding this cadre of entrepreneurs that
like I like as people that are smashing
it how did you how were you able to look
at a problem as like big as cancer where
you've had just from a business
perspective had your primary wins
looking at that there's an entire
industry around throwing away placental
I mean think of it as placental stem
cells but essentially that's what they
were doing and recognize that and saying
there's you know something for
disruption here do you just think you're
you just got a more vast intellect or is
there some because I seen you like the
scrapper kid like from the street who
you know would get in fights and not let
people push him around and that's
actually what's made you so successful
as an entrepreneur what do you think is
that is that accurate or you know what I
I'm flattered that you picked that up on
that with me because I mean to be honest
with you I mean it's it's pretty
accurate I I come from a pretty modest
background where you you know you kind
of ate what you killed and you you lives
a life based upon the the amount of
effort you put in
and how smart you were in navigating
towards an endgame you saw for yourself
so you know me I wanted when I was a kid
I wanted to be an airline pilot and so
learning how to fly and getting into
flying jets and ultimately you know
using that that stepping-stone to get me
into engineering and then and then as an
engineer and I went to I went to
Columbia I went to a great a great
university with a great engineering
school I learned a lot about approaching
problems in a systems oriented manner
and so when I wound up going to medical
school and training as a surgeon every
problem I saw in the clinic I approached
as it was an engineering problem that I
think really really helped me and and
you know I have often said this medicine
is a vocational training industry where
you learn from more seasoned experienced
physicians and surgeons you adopt their
practices and principles and then you go
out and you use what you learned in your
career often with minimal modification
but if but in medicine if you approach
everything from an engineering point of
view okay you break it down to the
problem identify the root cause and then
you try and engineer a solution to the
root cause of the problem yes where this
is all going is is pure insanity it gets
me really excited so I always tell
people and I've said on my show
literally a thousand times I plan to
live forever you're one of the people
I'm counting on to make that happen by
the way so we got it we got to work
together
in a heartbeat I live between the
friction of I plan to live forever but I
understand it can have an aneurysm and
die before the end of this interview and
I get that and you know for me that this
sort of joy is that friction I have two
questions for you one like what does the
actual future of medicine look like and
I'm going to put that in a three year
time horizon so that we're not just
grasping at straws like what does the
the near future of medicine look like
and then and I'll react it but what
happens in a world
where we live forever so you know
there's never been more going on in
medicine than there is today there's
never been more going on in the tools
and the resources available to
researchers to identify new strategies
to approach disease and to approach
things like aging etc the the challenge
is that we're working you talk about
friction you know we're working in a
system where the navigation of a
breakthrough from the bench to the
bedside to being available in you know
in primetime for everybody is a very
complex convoluted bureaucratic
political process okay
you know it costs a lot of money to get
a new any new therapy to the marketplace
so it makes a difference
now that's rubbing up against the fact
that our ability to diagnose disease is
better than ever
imaging technology and you know you'd
mention human longevity we have the we
have the most sophisticated ways of
screening individuals and identifying
problems early genomics is a way to
identify the master warning signals out
there and to look before things start to
go awry right now at human longevity one
of the things they do at the company
that I founded with Peter and with craig
Venter is is we read the genome as a way
to understand what's your biological
roadmaps gonna take you down and if we
understand that you are at risk for
certain things you do a couple of things
you increase vigilance and you and you
would you use certain measures which are
pre-emptive I believe that the time is
upon us where everyone has the ability
to have their genomics read and
deciphered the understanding of what
that genome means for your risk for
developing disease is getting better and
better and better if I know that I'm at
risk for certain things and I simply pay
attention you can treat these things
earlier when when the impact of
treatment is that much more important
and the reality is that if you I mean
the American Cancer Society
you said for the last 40 years early
cancer detection is the is the most
important factor in outcome and you know
every stage zero cancer
virtually every stage zero cancer is
curable so if we know from your genome
that you're a risk for developing that
cancer and you simply pay attention and
you do pre-emptive diagnostic work and
you do pre-emptive therapeutic work you
could potentially prevent all cancers
from reaching a a lethal state all right
we're gonna take a hard right turn but
now I want to ask I read this book
called Einsteins Dreams it ended up man
I don't even remember why I picked it up
probably because it was thin if I'm
honest there'd be a bigger sense of
accomplishment actually finishing the
book about my reading list it's good
you'll love it and in it it's this guy
like pontificating about time right and
how different things would be if X Y Z
thing about time were different and one
of them is he goes to this world where
people live forever and in that world
people bifurcate into some people do
absolutely nothing because there's
always time to do it tomorrow and then
other people do everything all the time
because there's enough time to do all of
their passions and I always found that
so interesting and it's one of those
I've asked like at parties a thousand
times about like which camp people
thought they would fall into but what do
you really think the world looks like
cuz I really believe and I don't know
that you do but I really believe on a
long enough timeline and maybe it's not
in my lifetime but a hundred years two
hundred years at some point from now we
get to the point where every year that
we live we add a year or more in just
medical advances escape velocity right
exactly so we will at some point I truly
believe live forever what are you like
if you live forever
Wow scary even to think about it doesn't
really scare you why does it scare you
I've never used that word well it's it's
scary because
as I've gotten older I think my pace has
kind of continued but I feel like
there's exhaustion coming so the concept
I have like an overarching exhaustion
overarching you know the will to
continue to work at that pace is either
diminished or lost now saying that if I
kind of knew that I had a lot more time
I'd be much more comfortable with
adjusting the pace right I would
probably be be willing to perhaps change
the tempo of things that I'm doing and I
don't know if that's actually good I
personally know that people think along
the lines you're thinking that work
we're working so so well at improving
the the tools we have to live longer
that eventually like you said every year
you're alive
you've allowed so much more breakthrough
so many more breakthroughs to occur that
you can live that much longer afterwards
you know Ray Kurzweil says that we're
approaching a longevity escape velocity
I think that that's that's a really
interesting concept and we may be there
but I think that the escape is gonna be
some alternative form of life so the
people like Ray and you know a lot of
our colleagues in the Silicon Valley
they see that extended extended survival
is cognitive survival right
transferring intellect and cognitive
ability into a more durable form which
gets back to why I'm also so interested
in regenerative medicine because one
thing I can tell you again as an
engineer is that there is no machine
that has an infinite lifespan and so
although elements of us theoretically
could be could be managed to live
forever the machine would have to be
replaced right sort of like airplanes we
talked about this
most of the airplane people fly in are
decades old
because in aviation they figured out
that as a machine
the parts and airplanes have a limited
lifespan and so the best way to protect
against failure of an airplane is to
have a preventative maintenance program
you know my airplane is 15 years old now
it's already been rebuilt torn apart and
rebuilt already and and I replace you
know and I have a manufactured
recommended plan where where I basically
replace pumps and parts and valves at a
time when the industry said they're old
enough that probability of failure has
increased and so that preventative
approach is sort of what we should do in
health care as well I mean let me think
about this right if we got to the point
and we're working with Martine Rothblatt
at United therapeutics to do this we get
to the point that you'll have
replacement parts off this shelf
you actually would be better off having
the things which wear out faster reflect
your knees your elbows your hips your
heart you your lungs you'd be better to
have those things replaced while you
were still functioning well because you
now eliminated that downside of having
to live with a failing part airplanes
don't fly well when the valves don't
work anymore or the pumps don't work
anymore but if you place those a 70 year
old airplane can fly just as well so
oddball question here you're a pilot
I've flown with you it's amazing your
plane is pretty cool
I know whatever people are thinking at
home it's not quite as cool as your
plane actually is what's the closest
you've ever come to crashing you know
I've had I've had emergencies
never never come close to any any any
lethal failure in part because you know
I tend to be a very safety focused guy
so so this is the cool thing about about
the kind of airplanes we fly and I use
this in some of my talks if you look on
the glare shield of my cockpit and
you've been in the cockpit with me I
have these two really cool buttons one's
a master caution one's a master warning
okay one flash is yellow one flashes red
what what aviation has done
it's figured out that through a system
of Diagnostics it can evaluate
mission-critical components parts
functional systems and evaluate them and
determine if something is going awry and
needs to be addressed or if something's
actually gone and failed so you get the
yellow flashing light way before you get
the red flashing light but that allows
you when you get the yellow flashing
light the master caution to take steps
to ameliorate the problem so for example
the other day I had a hydraulic pump
start to fail in the airplane get a
master caution yellow light look at the
look identifying that on the diagnostic
what the problem was going to the
checklist and then you take a series of
steps so that that failure isn't a fatal
failure we can do that with body two
that's in part what we do in human
longevity with the genomics all right if
I can identify a problem early on and
then if I have if I have help getting to
the root cause I can address the root
cause problem with one step or another
to make that no longer a lethal problem
is it the same way that you would
approach a business problem
I think I try to I try not to be too
emotional and try and be practical about
it but the the fact is that if you're
good enough to see an impending failure
and address it it's a hell of a lot
cheaper and it's a hell of a lot easier
and you get to sleep a lot earlier if
you can do it before it goes completely
haywire so we do and I and my team I
have a phenomenal team at cellularity
people you know it's funny cellularity
is a brand new business the average
number of years employees at cellularity
have worked with me he's almost ten
years Wow okay so these are people
who've been around a long time with me
it's a spectacular group of people and
every one of them every one of them
understands the way I approach problems
and I've found that they're really
really good at coming to me when
something is going awry and they're
already thinking in terms of okay what's
the solution
the problems identified focus on the
solution and come up with it with a
series of options and that's an
engineering approach so lots of non
engineers are acting like engineers at
cellularity now and maybe the the it's
in the answer about thinking like an
engineer but how do you you you've been
working in arenas that it's what I call
when things stack so you've got a lot of
disparate experience a lot of disparate
companies but there's a way that they
all stack on each other in that the
information that you learned in one
company is going to help you with the
next one HLI and cellularity have so
much overlap how have you kept your
thinking fresh how do you avoid falling
into the trap of becoming dogmatic as
you become more of an expert I think
it's important to avoid that pitfall you
have to surround yourself with people
who approach things differently who
challenge you you know not a lot of you
know sick of fans who just want to sort
of you know make you happy and also you
know what you need to bring in new blood
with completely opposing points of view
so we've tried to do that at cellularity
and I think it's I think it's it's it's
very helpful but at the same time I want
people to to fully exploit the power of
this connectivity to our original parent
company to the companies were
strategically partnered with two allied
companies that are that are equity
holders in cellularity but also business
partners and by doing that I think we I
think we avoid lots of the lots of the
problems or the tunnel vision that could
be created but you know I need to I need
to come and rely on a lot of my friends
and colleagues out there to make sure
that I'm not missing something that's
sometimes when I have to call you yeah
uh-huh interesting I love you said
something in there which made me think
of Lincoln who used a team of rivals
which I always found really by the
saying
yeah I've not read it but familiar with
the concept I've never done it in my
businesses but one thing especially
because impact theory is such a creative
endeavor I have real fear of getting a
bunch of people together that think in
one way and aren't able to break out of
that and that the more we think we know
the more we're sort of trapping
ourselves in a box so it's interesting
to hear that you're you're leveraging
the other side of the coin which is
continuity which is shorthand which is
trust which is actually really really
powerful what is what would you say is
the number one trait that you look for
in a new employee you know so there
there has to be a fundamental loyalty
that an individual has to the company
I'm you know maybe it's nerdy and geeky
of me but I like people who walk around
wearing you know the logo the logo wear
of the company and actually actually
have a sense of ownership
you know chuckle willing you know the
Navy SEAL has got a great book with Leif
Babb and called stream ownership great
book right and these guys get it because
unless you are completely completely
invested in what you're doing and that
in me that includes coming and you don't
and you have loyalty to it you you
you're not as motivated to be thinking
critically about what you do and what
the people around you do and the
immediate midterm and long-term impact
on the business and so getting that
loyalty has been very very important to
me and and a kin to that people have to
have honesty you know I'm you can come
to me and tell me you screwed up that
doesn't bother me at all it's it's not
coming to me and telling me you screwed
up when you did so that degree of
honesty is also important listen you you
know me I've said this for a long time I
embrace failure you know Mandela said I
win or learn right we have the same
approach
you know people can
can as long as they have the the
internal intellectual loyalty to what
we're doing if they make mistakes and
own up to it so that we can make a
directional change to get us where we're
going
that's a success as far as I'm concerned
how do you find that like what do you
look for in the interview is it gut is
it like certain questions is it on the
resume you know I try and be good at it
and you everybody thinks they're great
judges of character doesn't right I've
been I've been fooled you know I think
we all have right I mean I've had
partners and I've had people in my
lifetime who I thought were totally
loyal and honest and they really weren't
it's it's very tough but I think when
you make a decision you can't just walk
away from the decision and say it's
somebody else's problem you have to you
have to spend time watching watching the
process that anybody who bring in how
they assimilate and integrate and if you
see friction and if you see it you know
what it's very funny I have a like I
said I have people who've been with me
for a long time you know my assistant
Danielle's been with me for God almost
20 years right well you know so so I I
look at you know if the hair on the back
of my neck isn't standing up but it's
standing up on them
I should pay attention yeah that that is
really something so read this book by
Ray Dalio called principles and he said
I went from he had this massive failure
and the early 80s lost basically to shut
his company down and it was just
heartbreaking to him and he said I went
from thinking I know I'm right to asking
myself how do I know I'm right and I
thought wow that's really really smart
and you know getting into a creative
space which is like for all the success
that I've had in business I've always
had it in an area where I didn't know
and so I was naive and I brought the
naivete to the table and I've always
felt one of my greatest strengths is my
ferocious willingness to learn and the
fact that I'll just outwork anybody and
so I've actually had trepidation coming
into an area where I'm like I feel like
I already understand it I know
this I know this space and it's my
training it's my background my first
love I spent a lot of years perfecting
my craft and so coming back to it I have
one overwhelming fear how do I know I'm
right and so reading that and getting a
team together where it's like if the
hair isn't standing up on the back of my
neck but I look at them and everybody
else is freaking out like okay maybe
there really is something here
you're clearly better than I am I can't
find it in an interview I am the guy you
were talking about like I used to think
I'm really a good judge of character in
fact there is so much content out in the
world that I've created talking about my
techniques for like recognizing and all
that only to come to find out that like
if I'm better than most that would be
terrifying because I solved so much to
learn
yeah me too me too and you know it's
frustrating because you walk away from a
bag you know from a really bad choice at
when someone else presented it to you
and you finally figure it out and you
say well how did that evade me you know
how did I not see that kind and if you
had to save all the traits that make up
your personality what is the one most
closely related to the level of success
you've had you know I'm a pretty
fearless guy you know there's not a lot
that scares me and I don't mind looking
stupid
I don't mind falling on my face I don't
mind failing and and and owning up to it
so I think for me the ability to embrace
failure is for me it's a strength I
think and but I but I I'm not a quitter
and so if you have the to not afraid to
fail and but you don't quit when you
fail I think that's a pretty decent
combination talk to me about your
residency which I imagine is probably
one of the times where those two traits
came in handy what was that like how did
you make it through I would listen I
loved it I was a listen the truth of the
matter is that that as hard as it was on
me as an individual the hours the
pressure and so on and so forth
I learned so much and I built so much
confidence you know that's kind of the
problem too you walk out of surgical
and fellow training thinking that like
you know you can do everything you walk
away with a little bit of a Superman
syndrome and that actually that actually
you have to temper over time and figure
out you know what in that environment
you do up the skills to get you where
you had to go but but I wanted I wanted
to get back into the research and and
designing things and developing things
but I but I still I still to this day
have incredibly close friends who we all
were in the same boat together training
and you know I I can't even tell you the
stories the stories are probably the
best part of it I've heard some of the
story yes and they are good story good
stories before I asked my last question
where can these guys find you online
so I've entered into the world of social
media well twitter nice I was a little
scary at the beginning but we're finally
we're finally back so so it sits at
Hariri Robert you know again it shows my
my lack of sophistication I went last
name before first name but the good
thing is if you figure out my last name
which isn't that hard
har IRI and you put in that and I come
up pretty pretty easy so at Hariri
Robert and then I use LinkedIn pretty
pretty voraciously not on the other
stuff but but I'm I'm but cellularity
our company and our life Bank USA
business unit are all in the social
media by the way it's important that I
mentioned this so as you know
cellularity c e l u lar ity is a
misspelling of cellularity with two L's
intentionally because cellularity is a
spin out of cell gene and cell gene as
you know is the hundred billion dollar
biopharma that i was so fortunate to be
part of for more than 15 years after
they acquired my company life bank
anthro genesis but cell gene was a spin
out of celanese the chemistry company so
c e l2 c e l 2c e l for me is a way to
you know maintain that kind
activity and then the the singularity
connection I think is pretty obvious -
yeah I thought that was really cool and
I'm gonna sneak one more question in if
you'll bear with me what are the key
lessons that you've taught your kids
about being successful however you
define it in their lives you know the
one thing I've told them is only do
something you absolutely love don't do
anything because you're doing it for me
or for your mom or for your friends or
for the rest of your family you're doing
it because because this is where you
want to spend your time and my kids I'm
very fortunate I have three great kids
my youngest daughter is gest she's a
dynamo my son is off the charts he puts
me to shame I if I if I was half as
smart as my son I could've actually made
something myself but my kid my kids are
spectacular but but I I don't want them
for example going into medicine because
their dad's in medicine and that's all I
want my kids it's just do something
you're in love with you know me I love
aviation in fact I say well people say
why are you doing cellularity I gotta do
cellularity so I can pay for my jet fuel
alright so so I you know it's it's doing
what you absolutely love that's a pretty
good answer alright last question what's
the impact that you want to have on the
world you know my parents died early as
I mentioned from diseases that they
shouldn't have died early from it was it
was my mother died of something which
today my products we have today would
have cured her would have cured her
so I want to I want to do things that
help help people get through the stuff
that robbed me and my family members of
our loved ones and hopefully we can
inspire other scientists and other
people in the field to use these living
cells as nature's repair kit it they are
nature's toolset to fix things if we can
just figure this out harness it and
disseminate it we're gonna alleviate a
lot of pain and suffering
of these fantastic guys this is one of
those times were monitored to get to
really spend time in an interview format
with somebody that I know and love and
care about and get to share them with
you and what I hope you took away from
this is somebody that has looked at the
absolute biggest problems that we face
as a species and said those are my
problems to solve and one by one he's
gone after them and built some of the
most important companies in the battle
against cancer announcing what he's
doing in terms of extending human life
extending human cognition and the the
real efforts that are going to be made
in that because of him and because of
the energy that he's willing to put in
and quite frankly the willingness to
learn grow and get better and and that's
what I love and I I'm certainly not
discounting anything he's a very smart
person and if you spend time with him
that will come across in spades but I
don't value raw intelligence what I
value is people that do something with
whatever they have and more than most
people I've ever met in my life this guy
makes use of every moment of every
natural talent that he has to spin into
something that is truly useful by
putting in the time and the energy to
fail over and over and learn from those
failures and grow and not be afraid that
looks stupid and just keep going and
because of that he has one of the most
amazing and incredible lives on two
fronts one just financially he's hit the
jackpot in a way that is unbelievable
and then to the people around him
actually like him and that's
awesome to say and I hope something that
people will say about me one day so guys
if you haven't already be sure to
subscribe and until next time my friends
the legendary take care hey everybody
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