Kind: captions
Language: en
I think one of the the other key
psychological concepts that people
should focus on more is the idea that
you can practice something deliberately
so you have to deliberately practice the
weaknesses and make them as strong as
you can while also practicing your
strengths and making those the top of
your performance most people are too
lazy to do that they just want to
practice everything or they don't want
to even bother to figure out which piece
is the most important everybody welcome
to another episode of impact theory our
goal with this show and company is to
introduce you to the people and ideas
that will help you actually execute on
your dreams all right today's guest is a
former Wall Street lawyer who gave it
all up to pursue a life of meaning
following his love for learning instead
of chasing money he co-founded a podcast
and Academy called the art of charm back
in 2006 long before podcasting and
online courses were a thing and he
methodically built it into a
seven-figure business and one of the
most dominant podcasts on iTunes before
leaving to start something new his
interview show received more than 4
million downloads per month and his new
podcast which he just started from
scratch recently has already received
more than a million downloads in the
first three weeks alone and it's no
surprise giving how hard this guy works
and how damn interesting he is he speaks
five languages including Mandarin
Chinese and Serbian he used to run a
business giving tours of North Korea
he's been kidnapped twice on two
different continents and in high school
he was an exchange student in the former
Soviet stronghold of East Germany his
company and interests have led him to
study some of the most successful people
in the world and from that he's created
a playbook on social dynamics that has
made him one of the most sought-after
speakers and coaches in the world his
work has been presented in Silicon
Valley at mega companies such as Google
Apple Twitter and Square and he's given
talks on security social engineering and
psychology at places such as blackhat
Def Con and Harvard Business School
additionally Forbes named him one of the
50 best relationship builders anywhere
and heat magazine paralleled him to one
of the best interviewers in
modern era so please help me in
welcoming the former phone hacker and
now host of the Jordan Harbinger show
Jordan Harbinger I am stoked to have you
on the show dude you are the master of
introductions I would if I didn't know
who you were introducing I would have
been very excited to hear from that
person that person yeah they're gonna be
here today oh good I'll stick around
exciting what's crazy is how many weird
things you've done
yeah like the the North Korea doubt in
my notes I literally wrote what the
like I had to go back and like listen to
that again I'm like he actually gave
tours in North Korea how does one end up
giving tours in North Korea that's what
my mom wanted to know too of course wait
how does that happen are you sure this
is allowed a long time ago when I was in
law school a friend of mine kept telling
me about Turkmenistan and how weird this
place was and how they had this crazy
dictator that was renaming the calendar
months and everything and built an ice
palace in the middle of the desert and I
thought what a weird guy so that's for
sure interesting but the thing I really
want to know is what makes you when your
friend goes oh there's an even crazier
dictator what yes you've moved towards
that that's a good question I think
anything that's really esoteric or
forbidden was always appealing to me
when I was a kid so you mentioned former
phone hacker totally great reference
because that was me when I was a kid
opening up those green boxes on the side
of the road where you needed a special
wrench to get it and I thought they
don't want people to open this you need
a special wrench I'm gonna figure out
how to open this and I open it and
there's all these little screws with
wires attached to him and I see the
lineman with his little orange handset
clip and alligator clips on there and I
went and got one of those things and
started to play with it in the green box
and I was listening to people's phone
calls when I was 13 and I thought this
is something I'm not supposed to do that
theoretically doesn't hurt anyone so I
like that
and now as an adult I realized that I
still have that bit of code that says
people kind of don't want you to do that
and I go oh well in that case it's more
appealing so it's a little bit of a
rebellious streak but I'm more
interested to learn wipe
people are trying to keep something a
secret then I am about breaking the rule
itself if that makes sense
totally so this whole like lifeless
ordinary thing is that something that
you cultivate intentionally like so I
know the story
you're a lawyer on Wall Street at the
time of the collapse and so it there was
a natural out if you wanted to take it
but I don't feel like you took it
because there was a natural out it would
have been easy enough for you to do
something that was still centered around
lobby you don't you start something that
at the time would have been so beyond
counterintuitive like in 2006 I'd
listened to exactly zero podcast yeah I
don't even know if I'd ever heard the
word podcast I don't think people
listening today really understand like
it didn't really exist back then no so
how did you why did you get into that
right so in college I had to outwork
everyone which is easy because in
college everyone's just drinking
partying so I out worked everyone that
was my competitive advantage but then I
got to Wall Street and everyone was
really hardworking and really smart and
I thought okay we can all work 20 hours
a day seven days a week how do I make
myself smarter in a timeframe that's
short enough for me not to get fired
because I had hard core imposter
syndrome whereas like they're gonna
figure out I don't belong here I'm gonna
get fired then I'm gonna be out of luck
and I have all this debt from law school
so I decided to work on this sort of
secret third path which well actually I
wanted to work from home so that nobody
could see how much I didn't belong at
this Wall Street firm there was a
partner that always worked from home and
eventually I caught up with him and I
said hey you're never in the office do
you just work from home a lot he
actually explained well sometimes but I
usually get business I generate the
business for the firm by creating and
maintaining relationships and that was
really interesting to me so I asked him
how that was done and he explained look
I'm friends with these people and they
throw us deals and I I don't even worry
about my billable hours I just bring in
deals and get Commission based on that
so I dedicated my life to learning how
to create maintain relationships because
that was my only hope that was my secret
third path not outwork everyone I was
already working as hard as I could not
try to make myself smarter and
way you're dealing with real natural
talent and hard work with some of these
other people that were at my level but
nobody was thinking about networking in
relationships we all thought well we
stay here long enough we put our time in
dot dot dot senior associate or partner
Country Club network that's how that
worked in my head at age 25 that's not
how that works you build that network
the entire time deliberately ideally and
then you have those relationships that
are valued enough to make you a partner
or get you to the top of the law game or
any game so I decided to focus on that
thinking if I work on this I'll probably
have five years before any of my
colleagues even think about this as a
skill set and that time advantage will
allow me to master the networking and
relationship development skill set that
I need to not get fired maybe make
partner stay at the top of the game so I
focused on that skill set and that was
what we were talking about at bars and
at meetings and things like that and
other people wanted to learn these
skills too because they started noticing
some of the rewards that were coming
from it I would never wait in line at a
bar I would never pay for any food or
drinks when I went out I always seemed
to know everyone I was with different
friends all the time so bartenders
doormen everybody knew who I was and
that was appealing to younger guys and
girls for that matter back in college
but it was really useful in the working
world so when I finally started to teach
these skills on the side I was having
the same conversation every night six
nights a week because I was going out
trying to work on these skills and I
started burning those conversations to
CDs and eventually a friend of mine said
you know you might not have to carry a
pocket full of crappy burned at home CDs
if we can figure out how to distribute
these mp3 files in another way there was
no way to do that back then and then we
found out about podcasting and at the
time there were 800 shows in iTunes
there are about 350 400,000 now and
that's what we did we started uploading
our conversations to a server and
listing them in iTunes and the first
couple days we had 24 downloads and
couple of them were from South Africa
and that's when the light bulb went off
that there's something here that
nobody's really paying attention to if I
can have a conversation with my friend
in his basement or living room and that
can go to South Africa an hour later and
someone can email us and say hey I tried
this and it worked we have a new concept
here
remember YouTube did not exist I think
it was like video Wiz or something right
so it was like this small niche nerd
community of people that knew about
podcasting and that's what we started
building from there and we just thought
this isn't a business it's a hobby we
went on with our lives and then one day
we checked our numbers months and months
or years later and we went this is a
real snowball there's really an audience
here now was that when you were still at
the law firm or yes yeah I was working
at the law firm and then actually sort
of moonlighting because a couple friends
of mine said hey I'm doing this show on
Sirius XM satellite radio a couple
blocks from your office I don't want to
drive up and make it because there's too
much traffic can you just do my slot on
the show is the guest so I show up to
Sirius XM satellite radio and I go hey
I'm here to talk about someone else's
book and I get up there and they're like
you didn't write the book No well we
don't have a guest
what can you talk about body language
persuasion influence networking they
said great you're on in seven minutes go
down that hallway see you later and we
went down the hall set in did the did
the show and they said you guys did a
decent job have you done this before
well we have this thing called a podcast
and the station manager just happened to
be listening to that episode of the show
and he started listening to our podcast
and when I emailed him two weeks later
he goes I love this thing you're doing
in your basement if only you actually
had a studio and weren't just talking
with a furnace next to you and like
noises so he gave us our own show on
Sirius XM satellite radio just to see if
we could do it and that's how the show
really started to to launch and when did
you start thinking about it as a
business because I can't think of
anything sort of less likely to turn
into a business when you're peeling out
of your locker
than that yeah that's a good question
the business hobbies shift started to
happen not because we went alright
there's an audience here we got to
monetize it that's what people do now
that are smart and think ahead
we were not those people what we had was
a bunch of free content on the podcast
and people started writing in and saying
hey you know I'm having trouble applying
some of this stuff can I call you and I
thought this is a great way to not have
any free time ever so I said sure but
I'm gonna have to charge for it because
I don't want to just do free coaching
all the time so this guy said great I'm
gonna give you two grand can you give me
like 20 hours of coaching for that or
ten and I said sure no problem
what do you do for a living and he said
I'm a mortgage banker I really want to
teach this stuff to my team so he just
kept keeping us on retainer and I
thought there's real money here and then
him and another friend we're doing this
phone coaching with me during the summer
at Law School and another guy said I
just want to come and see you do this
stuff and I said sure fine he goes why
don't I give you that five grand and
I'll stay with you for a week and I
thought that's creepy right that's a
little creepy you want to live with me
for a week and he goes look I'm a normal
guy we can talk on the phone for a while
so that you know that I'm not a weirdo
but I know that if I learn from you in
person I will figure this stuff out and
I thought that's probably a good way to
learn this stuff so that was our first
client he flew in lived with us for a
week basically paid the rent on our
Manhattan apartment for a minute and he
just ended up being our first training
client and that was when we went we'll
wait a second if people are willing to
do this and there's more than one this
could be a business where the business
was driven by the demand for the service
and the coaching and the knowledge it
was not okay we're gonna be life coaches
and we're gonna figure out this
curriculum and then start cramming it in
people's face it was the opposite it was
here's all this free stuff if you can
use it cool and that became the
foundation of the business you said
growing up that you were painfully shy
yes did you use tactics and techniques
to get out of that and is that sort of
what becomes your teaching or how did
you get out of that great question
I definitely use tactics and techniques
to get out of that and in the beginning
you feel like you're faking it right you
feel like all this body language stuff
you're just sort of going through the
motions and to an extent you are but
once people start treating you
differently because you're open positive
confident or at least that's your first
impression you start to realize oh I'm
not being rejected by people at first
glance you know I'm I'm sitting up and
I've got a smile on my face and I feel
good about what I'm doing and you start
getting attention from people that
normally you would think oh I I didn't
realize this woman wanted to date me or
this person wanted to hang out you you
really don't have yourself esteem
matching up with the way people are
perceiving you and so there's one way to
sort of fix that right and that's you
get pulled in one direction so if you
think you're really great but people
treat you poorly your self-esteem drops
right and you eventually meet that
expectation but if your self-esteem is
sort of shaky like mine was and you're
painfully shy but people start treating
you like you're upright confident
positive friendly outgoing you get
pulled in that direction instead and
that became a core concept of what I was
teaching because I realized wait a
minute I don't like fake it till you
make it but in some respects this really
worked for me because I wasn't lying to
anybody I was just acting a little bit
more confident than I was and then
people went oh he's comfortable and fun
and friendly and I grew into that so I
had a core level identity shift into who
I was and sure enough people treated me
in that way and I started to become that
way because I realized I had nothing to
lose so and nothing to fear more
importantly so yeah I really used those
techniques at first and they were very
robotic and then eventually I realized I
can take off the scaffolding because I'd
become the person who I had been trying
to be because you're not adding a veneer
of falsity to you're not telling fake
stories or acting cool or something like
that you're really just being more
confident in just for a few moments
while people make that first impression
of you they start to treat you
differently and you start to act into
that and it happens naturally you don't
have to force it I love the concept that
you have about every time you walk
through a doorway the doorway concept
and what I love about it is that
basically all of this stuff can be
practice and once you practice it then
it becomes natural and there's this
quote from Bruce Lee which I've always
loved which is I kick until I don't
think kick I just kick so what is the
doorway principle and why is it so
powerful the doorway drill is really
potent because what this does is it
fixes body language in a way that
creates a different kind of first
impression so essentially we're making
people more confident with a pack of
post-it notes so the way that this works
is we know our first impressions are
made non-verbally and if you don't
believe me if you're not sure if this is
true what you need to do is go walk down
the street walk to through them all and
your mind will be making these little
judgments about someone tall person
scary person cute person small child in
fun person you're making these judgments
subconsciously all the time but this is
evolved behavior it doesn't mean you're
prejudiced or something like that this
is just what your brain does but what
that means is that your first impression
is made non-verbally those people don't
have to talk or tell you something
clever or tell you something scary for
you to make that judgment about them you
just feel it so the doorway drill is
potent because if we walk through a
doorway which we do hundreds of times a
week dozens and dozens of times a day
even if you're just seated in your
office if we reset our body language our
nonverbal communication to create a
positive first impression then we don't
have to think about it much anymore
because the problem is if you say all
right sit up straight have upright open
confident positive body language then I
go into a meeting or a networking event
and this first thing that happens is I
reset to my defaults computer mode right
because I'm not thinking about it
anymore it's a conscious shift in my
body language that I will lose control
of so we have to delegate or relegate
that set of nonverbals to a subconscious
process and the way to do that is to
practice it and the way to practice it
is to remember to practice it in the way
to remember to practice it is to do it
every time you walk through a doorway so
whenever you walk through a doorway
stand up straight shoulders back chest
up chin up smile on your face and you
don't have to Superman it you'll look
you'll look awkward and fake but if you
just have open
upright confident positive body language
every time you walk through that door
you will start to do this habitually the
problem is we tell you this and the
first thing you do is you walk through a
door and you forget it instantly because
you learned it on impact Theory along
with the million other things and it
goes right out the window so take a pack
of post-it notes these little tiny ones
you don't have to write anything on it
stick them up at eye level in the
doorframe or in the doorway of your
office your home wherever you can get
away with it and when you see that
you're gonna go why is there a post-it
oh right
doorway drill up right open positive
confident body language
now that over time weeks months whatever
it takes you will start to do that every
time you walk through a doorway the
beautiful part of this is our first
impressions are often made as soon as
people see us and as soon as they see us
is usually when we walk into a room
through a doorway so every time if we're
resetting our body language every time
we walk through a doorway we're creating
a positive nonverbal first impression
every time we enter a room and then we
don't have to think about it anymore so
we can stay present in conversations we
can get through what we need to get
through in a conversational agenda if we
have one we can network and meet people
and have it look natural and we don't
have to think all right oh shoot you
were slouching stand up straight oh crap
what was Tom saying I forgot oh no now
he knows that I'm lost wait a second I'm
slouching again that's what we're trying
to avoid we just want to make sure our
nonverbal first impression is good when
people start treating us differently
because of that first impression then we
start to act differently and we start to
become essentially a different more
confident person because of the way that
other people treat us because the way
other people treat us informs the way we
feel about ourselves and then we don't
have to fake it anymore we don't have to
try hard we don't have to put on airs
you know respect me we don't have to do
that anymore we don't have to do that
now you said one of the hallmarks of the
Jordan Harbinger show is takeaways acts
the actionable items that people can do
and actually implement in their lives
what are some other psychological
principles that you think people are
unaware of that have that real
actionable core greats so yeah one thing
I like to do on the show every
Joe has worksheets so that people can
sort of fill out what they've learned
because I believe that revision and
review I mean look I'm a nerd like many
many people who are listening or
watching I spent way too much time in
school so I like to review these things
but I will tell you I think one of the
the other key psychological concepts
that people should focus on more is not
just nonverbal persuasion or
communication and things like this but
the idea that you can practice something
deliberately so you have to deliberately
practice the weaknesses and make them as
strong as you can while also practicing
your strengths and making those the top
of your performance most people are too
lazy to do that they just want to
practice everything or they don't want
to even bother to figure out which piece
is the most important I'm super
fanatical about that and I think that
that's something that people really
overlook is in this debate about you
know do I focus on my strengths or do I
focus on my weaknesses and hearing you
talk and having done all the research
one thing that I will say you have an
extraordinary ability to learn
regardless of what the topic is and I
find that very interesting
walk me through like how have you
learned five languages and not easy
languages like Serbian and Mandarin
Chinese like that's insane so how do you
like what is that process so I'm a big
fan of immersion what's funny is people
go oh you must have a knack for
languages I'm not good at languages and
so a question I will always ask people
who think that they're not good at
something is how they know that they're
not good at it and usually the answer
has to do with the environment that they
learn in or the set up their learning
process and very rarely with their
actual talents so people will say oh I'm
not good at languages how do you know
well I took French in high school and I
didn't do well well I took French in
high school and French was my worst
subject every language I took in middle
school in high school was terrible
I took languages in college a little bit
and I was much better at it but I'll
tell you I got really good at languages
because when I was a senior in high
school I moved to Germany as a next
student and I got placed in East Germany
where they didn't speak English very
well and they learned Russian growing up
instead of English so I was surrounded
by German the whole time and I thought
I'm in trouble I was told everybody kind
of speaks English and I could get by and
I knew I was gonna have to learn some
German but I had no idea that it was
gonna be the basis for me making friends
at all getting by at all so I started to
realize that German was really hard
surprise and I took some German classes
and I learned a little tiny bit and not
much and my host parents started to get
worried because I wasn't really talking
and then one day my host father took me
out for a beer and he goes look you got
to learn German because no one can
relate to you and you're not getting
along with other people because they
just see you as this weird robotic
American guy and then we had another
beer and I said I just feel lonely and
homesick and all this stuff and he goes
but German is not that hard we can teach
you and then he started teaching me a
little here and there and this is three
or four months in and then I had another
beer and suddenly I could speak German
and he went wait a minute you can speak
a lot more German than you let on and I
just realized at that moment I was
afraid of making mistakes I didn't know
how much I knew and that since I'd been
immersed in the language for so long I
actually understood a lot more than I
thought so at that moment I realized I
can learn this I just need a different
type of learning environment I don't
learn well by memorizing a verb table
that a French teacher gave me and said
quiz on Friday I learned well by
watching a TV hanging out with a bunch
of kids my own age and having them yell
things at each other and I hear that
over and over and I remembered that
that's actually how humans learn
language in general and I realized
immersion is the way to do it study with
a coach study with a teacher do not try
to self teach a lot of people self teach
it can be great but you really learn
best with a coach for anything at all
I have interview and broadcast coaches
that teach us on the Jordan Harbinger
show I hire and if you can't find a
coach find a coach anyway you know find
someone on CNN and tweet at them and say
can I hire you to teach me interview
skills someone will eventually respond
to you and that's how I find these types
of people so I'll immerse myself in
something to the point where I can
really get any higher on my own and then
I will find a coach generally to take me
to the next level and even that's a
mistake honestly some of that is ego I
recommend finding a coach as early as
you can
you should find a coach before you try
to do anything because otherwise you're
just unlearning bad habits that you've
self taught I want to go back to some of
these just said which is really really
interesting to basically stalk somebody
until you get them to agree to be your
coach sure what does that process look
like and and I want to put it in context
of when Forbes magazine says that you're
one of the best relationship builders
anywhere like dude I will I will just
tell everybody right now how true this
is out of nowhere he reaches out to me
and was just like hey been watching your
show I think it's fantastic let me know
how I can help did I do that
yes my own advice I was like whoa like
Jorgen Hart Harbinger is like just reach
out to me this is crazy and you were
like oh I think this person be a good
guest this person and we're like dude
we've been trying to get them we can't
get them and you were like oh let me
make an intro and then all of a sudden
like like this huge cascade of guests
coming on me getting on other people's
podcast it was huge and I've said
privately a thousand times and this is
the God's honest truth dude nobody
outside of this company has had a bigger
impact on this company than you really
Wow from out of nowhere and your whole
thing about you know give without any
expectation of anything in return you've
never asked me for anything ever I was
just totally totally blown away so
leveraging like that ability to reach
out in a pretty smooth way like how do
cuz I know people watching this right
now they reach out really clumsily so
how can they reach out in an intelligent
fashion to get a hold of somebody that
can really be a meaningful mentor a
teacher whatever and actually get a yes
yeah this is a topic that's very near
and dear to my heart as well because I
do remember reaching out to you I didn't
I'm glad to hear I was that impactful
and helpful that's always nice to hear
what people do wrong when they reach out
is they go alright
hey Tom love your show you should have
me on it because I have a new book and
you're like oh one of these right I mean
you must get that a hundred times a day
I know you do because I do all the time
and I don't usually mind that but it
doesn't work nearly as well as a friend
reaching out and saying hey I'm watching
a book in a few months would love to do
the show also here's a bunch of other
things happening the reason this is
important is most people don't build
these relationships before they need
them and these are the same people that
would they obviously have a spare tire
in the trunk of their car so if they get
a flat on the highway they're taken care
of but if they want to build a
relationship they're not thinking about
digging that well before they're thirsty
so they're only looking at what help
they need when they need it and that is
a huge mistake you have to dig the well
before you're thirsty and you have to
give without the attachment to getting
something in return so when people want
to reach out stop thinking about what's
in it for you start thinking about only
what's in it for other people and if you
don't worry about what's in it for you
you will find opportunities that come
later down the line and to sort of
illustrate this when I moved to LA I had
a toothache and it started to get more
and more painful and it really was
starting to just dig into my brain I
couldn't think I didn't have a car I
moved from New York this is pre uber I
didn't have dental insurance cuz I was
27 and you know who cares about your
teeth right you think about those later
yeah I'll get new ones and so I started
to desperately call dentists and they
were like look I don't take new patients
or I can see you in a week go to the ER
if you have a toothache and I'm thinking
a week I haven't slept you know this
thing is killing me so I post it on
Facebook and obviously I didn't have my
privacy settings set correctly because
of random stranger filled in the comment
and said my aunt's a dentist near you do
you want me to give a recall and I said
sure
yeah so I went to his aunt the next
morning before they officially opened
got that thing drilled the hell out got
it filled she didn't overcharge me I
send this guy message
thank you so much he goes no problem man
I don't know what you do I heard you
have some show that my friend likes but
I'm glad you got your tooth taken care
and I said let me know if there's
anything I can do he said well I'm a
graphic designer
but I'm working at a cafe right now as a
barista I would love to just not make
another cup of coffee again and I said
well I don't have any work for you but
I'll keep my ear to the ground he said
whatever you can do no problem I don't
expect you to give me a job
four days later another entrepreneur
friend of mine she writes me and says my
web guys are blowing it I keep firing
them who can create good branding for me
I said I've never worked with this guy
but here's a portfolio he's a nice
person that's really all I can say that
guy got a full-time job as far as I know
still works there years later designing
websites and templates and themes and
branding for this woman's company
because he helped me find a dentist on
Facebook so if he'd been thinking how do
I get a job he would never have made
that introduction to a dentist because
there the connection the nexus is
unclear the opportunity lie over the
horizon but since he was helping without
the attachment or expectation of
anything in return he ended up finding
an opportunity through me that I didn't
know about and that he didn't know about
but you won't find those unless you were
constantly reaching out digging the well
before you're thirsty and giving without
that expectation of anything in return
and last but not least people keep score
now and this is bad do not keep score
and what I mean by that is if you
interview someone and then you help them
you drive them to the airport they don't
owe you anything but people in our heads
we create these covert contracts and the
reason they're called covert contracts
is because it exists in my head but it
doesn't exist in yours so we've got this
weird agreement where I Drive it at the
airport and then I pick you up and I
Drive you again I pick you up and you're
like hey Jordan such a good friend
he's always got you know he's always got
time for me he wakes up early so he
doesn't mind driving me to the airport
for my super early flights and in my
head I go one day I'm gonna make Tom
have me on his show and I'm gonna sell
my magical weight loss formula and then
one day I pitched this to you and you go
oh not totally a fit from what we're
doing here an impact Theory I'll help
you in other ways if I can and then in
my head I go you son of a right
I'm mad at you now because
you broke the deal that I created in my
head you broke the comp the contract the
covert contract so I'm starting to be
passive-aggressive I'm angry with you I
can't change my behavior even if it's a
little subconscious I'm a little bit
colder towards you and our friendship
gradually dies why did this happen you
didn't do anything wrong I created an
agreement in my head where you started
to owe me something
and you didn't reciprocate and that made
me angry people do this we do this
subconsciously we think other people owe
us if someone creates opportunities for
you you introduce them to a bunch of
people you help them out a lot that's it
there's no agreement to reciprocate now
if someone helps you you should
reciprocate what you can if someone
doesn't reciprocate towards you though
do not keep score because you are
poisoning all of the relationships that
you start because you don't know how
that person might be able to help you in
the future you don't want to create a
bad reputation for yourself and you will
spend years thinking this person there
are one-sided friend they're not a
friend this person didn't do this thing
for me and years later down the line you
just have no idea what could have been
because you're poisoning all of your own
relationships so the rules are dig the
well before your Thursday give without
the expectation or attachment of getting
anything in return
and do not keep score and if you do
those three things as a matter of habit
throughout the next rest of your life in
fact you will have so much opportunity
coming into your life you won't have you
want to know what to do with yourself
you know I really hope people listen to
that and in your life right now is such
a reflection of that
as you're reinventing yourself and your
brand it's been incredible and I want to
talk about that reinvention you've been
crazy like raw and real and vulnerable
about it
[Music]
so I'm not so interested in the like
what happened to the company - yes it
ate the the reinvention but how do you
conceptualize it and how do you face
those fears so when I left the art of
charm and suddenly found myself what I
thought was out in the cold
I actually was in a
position than I thought because I had
actually been following my own advice
dig the well before you're thirsty give
without the expectation of anything in
return so when I left the art of charm I
actually took the vast majority of the
team with me not in some Jerry Maguire
moment but in a different type of
situation everyone always goes Jerry
Maguire not quite unless Rene Zellweger
is my producer Jason who doesn't exactly
fit fit that mold but I left and I went
okay guys and girls what are we gonna do
right now and the answer from the team
unanimously was rebuild we already know
we want to do we just have to start over
and I thought easy for you to say I've
been doing the other show for 11 years I
built this business over 11 years now
I've got to start over
this is terrible what do I do and so I
had a couple of choices early on one was
don't tell anyone what happened make
sure that your pride and ego are intact
and try to do this with your team or by
yourself and it's gonna take five plus
years because now I know what I'm doing
it won't take 11 years maybe it'll take
a mere half decade the other option was
you've built a network over 11 years
you've got a lot of friends you've got a
lot of people that want to support you
spread the message about what happened
not in a look what happened to me it's
so sad kind of way but in a here's my
little predicament right now what can
what ideas would you have and most of
the people that I had reached out to who
have any sort of platform or anything
we're like I want to help you get back
on your feet with the Jordan Harbinger
show what can we do to make this happen
and so I reached out to dozens and
dozens of people that I knew would I'll
be honest at first it was like if people
start rejecting me I'm gonna feel pretty
damn bad about this right it's gonna
take its gonna knock me down even
further so I picked people like yourself
that I knew wouldn't be like you're dead
to me click right so I found a bunch of
people that I consider real friends and
I've reached out to those people
yourself included and I went here's
what's going on and you've been through
similar stuff too and so you empathized
of course but also you're in a great
position to say like actually we'd love
to make this conversation happen
and so once the initial first few people
had said let's do this my confidence was
bolstered I had a lot of great
mentorship from people on my network
like norm Pat is who owns podcast one
said don't skip a beat do your own show
forget about the past just get back on
your feet but if you've got a strong
network around you you're good
no it's incredible I love that you said
that it's not just because Jordan is an
incredible interviewer but I'll say that
is part of the equation and how do you
think about the very notion of going
into a crowded arena or whatever having
to start over how do you think about
being great how are you approaching your
interviews sure so the one thing that I
know that you and I do
probably more than other interviewers at
least the ones I've spoken to is we do
more homework than anyone whenever I
interview somebody I always look for the
Tom Bill you interview because I know
that you read the book you looked at all
the videos you had people make sure that
they weren't on hashtag me too somewhere
right like you did all the homework for
that person and I know that your
interview is gonna be really good and I
too will read the book watch the videos
and do everything and I know that we're
gonna be able to pull these things out
but the question is that it's a crowded
arena how are we gonna be great well if
I'm doing exactly what you're doing then
are either of us great or am I just
copying you so what what I will do is I
will always outwork the next guy and I
will do my own I'll put my own angle on
everything just like you do with this
like you've got this incredible
production you've got these incredible
interviews they're always enthusiastic
they're always inspirational your crew
around you is is second and on what me
and my team do is strive for similar
quality except I will always go for
let's say practicals and so I put my own
look like unique spin on that you've
talked pretty openly about some of the
anxiety that you've gone through and
rebooting the show and the uncertainty
financially that comes with building the
business from scratch what techniques
have you used
actually overcome the anxiety I would
love to say oh yeah I had all this
anxiety and then I started using this
app and meditating and everything was
fine that is not what happened not at
all what happened was yeah it was I went
from alright we've got this nice multi
seven-figure business the shows really
grace got this huge audience - okie
dokie how are we gonna figure out what
to do luckily I am a saver I plan well
financially and I I think that that is
underrated because when you have no debt
when you have a backup set up six months
or a year of finances even if you have
to downgrade your lifestyle a little bit
the level of freedom that you have is
enormous because when I started asking
friends what to do they want oh man
you need to get income you need to do
all-in there's a list of projects they
came up with that are all distractions
from rebuilding the Jordan Harbinger
show into what it needs to be it's like
you got to go on a speaking tour and you
need to write a product and you need to
start selling ebooks online you need to
do that that would have been fine I
would have had to do that if I were
going broke in a month but I wasn't
because I had planned for in inevitable
situations such as this so instead I'm
able to spend the next year and change
focusing on what's really gonna matter
in five years and not trying to figure
out how to keep the lights on and keep
people paid and keep myself in with a
roof over my head so I think it's really
important to make sure that you
it sounds cliche as I suppose again but
if you dig the well before you're
thirsty financially you'll be ok later
as well if you just assume everything is
gonna work out or that you can figure
out how to get income when you need it
because many of us are crafty and smart
that's fine but I don't want to spend
time trying to make short-term money
when I have a long-term goal so first of
all plan ahead if you find yourself
unable to do so because you're in this
situation now and you did not plan ahead
okay all is not lost
what I would say is the anxiety that I
had that I still have sometimes you have
to zoom out far enough on the timeline
and that sort of cures all and here's
what I mean by that
effective I guess is what people would
call it what I've been doing is zooming
out far enough on the time line in
thinking okay is this gonna matter in a
week maybe
is it gonna matter in a month probably
not it's hard to take comfort in that
when that week you feel crushed that in
a year you're gonna feel better but if
you put yourself in that situation where
you're zooming out far enough on the
timeline your own timeline you realize
huh has anyone ever stolen from me
before sure what are they doing now
doesn't matter how often you think about
it never how did you feel in that moment
pretty much like you do now okay so that
I have been through things like this
before yeah and you survived well not
only that thrived great but I still feel
bad right now you're allowed to just
realize that every second you spend
feeling sorry for yourself is a total
waste of time and set a timer if you
need to on your fancy Apple watch and
give yourself time to have your temper
tantrum call your mom and cry go take a
nap whatever you need to do and then put
your pants back on your britches back up
and get back to work the one thing that
made me feel better was getting back to
work because I had all this anxiety
which was energy I had that I didn't
know what to do with I was running
around like a chicken with my head cut
off and I spent a lot of it just whining
or being like I can't do this I don't
know how to do this none of that was
helpful but when I called my team and
called my network my podcast network and
they said don't skip a beat just get
back to work and produce the Jordan
Harbinger show stop whining about what
happened to your last one and your last
business when I got back in the studio
and I started moving forward again I
realized a lot of the anxiety was this
energy had no place to go it was like a
blender that you left the top off of and
it's shooting all over your kitchen I
needed to focus this in one direction
and so when I focused that energy into
producing a great show rebuilding my
business I started to feel better again
because if you're doing everything you
freakin can to get back on your feet
then when you go to bed at night you
don't think how am I gonna do this you
realize you're gonna do this one day at
a time
one step at a time one brick at a time
along those lines you wrote a really
cool article recently and the key
takeaway for me was action and suffering
yes I thought that was really cool that
was an accidental find right I didn't
think I've got to take action and end
the suffering I've got to direct my
energy in one direction it was kind of
like okay am I gonna try to sleep all
day or be depressed or be angry or am I
just gonna get back to work that that
was my choice at the end and I feel like
a lot of us have those choices the
action ended the suffering in many ways
but I didn't expect that to be the
result I really thought I was just gonna
distract myself and that was the initial
plan just distract yourself with work
but what I didn't realize was the work
wasn't just going to distract me it was
gonna take all of that drama and pack it
into a neat little ball put it in a
drawer and not worry about it anymore
because I had a bigger mission and part
of that was the audience the Jordan
Harbinger Show audience there were
people going where's the show and the
answer was it's it's on the way I didn't
miss one episode of the show when I left
the art of charm it ended on a Thursday
I would have had to release an episode
on Tuesday but I wasn't a part of the
company anymore the first episode of the
Jordan Harbinger show came out that
following Tuesday Wow I called a friend
Mark Geragos who's was Michael Jackson's
lawyer and stuff and I said what do you
do on a Saturday and he said I'm really
busy because I'm a really a million
clients and I said great 11:00 a.m.
works fine for me okay and he did the
show and we launched it right then and
people who were with us early went oh my
gosh you don't even have a website and I
said it's coming but the first episode
of the show is out action ends suffering
not gonna be universally true for every
type of suffering it might only
alleviate some of it but we see this
pattern in people we see the person
who's lost a child in a shooting or
something and is now speaking about it
we see people who have undergone great
tragedy and now run a charity that helps
people who've been victims of similar
situations or of different situations
that action helps them eliminate or
mitigate their suffering and so
this was an accidental discovery for me
so I can't take credit for it but what I
can say is if you find that you are
suffering right now try taking action
instead of taking a bath in that
suffering and I know it's easier said
that done trust me I know that but trust
me that this works as well so powerful
all right before I asked my last
question tell these guys where they can
find you and the new show sure sure so
you are either watching this or
listening to a podcast version right now
search for the Jordan Harbinger show in
your podcast app or iTunes we do have
some clips that take place in the
YouTube sphere but really I would love
if people would find me and listen to
the show because I will make damn sure
that every minute of your time your ear
your ear balls your share of year
whatever we want to call that has been
earned I will earn every moment of your
attention on the Jordan Harbinger show
that is my promise to you so give us a
shot and let me know what you think yeah
and I will just say that I think it's
even better than what you were doing on
the art of charm I think you broaden
things out a lot more I think the
interviews are more deft really I'm
super stoked on this thing it's
absolutely fantastic
thank you brother all right my final
question is what's the impact that you
want to have on the world I want to make
sure that people get tools to improve
their lives on a regular basis that they
can improve incrementally every single
time they listen so every episode of the
show you learn something you put it in
you like those little one-piece Legos
those little 1es you just stack them up
and eventually if you get enough of
those you could build a castle that is
what I'm trying to deliver because I
think that as busy as people are even
though the smartest of us are always
trying to learn it's hard to read a book
or two every week it's hard to make sure
we're moving forward and learning when
we're trying to build our own business
or keep a career or manage a family so I
want to deliver this knowledge and this
value in a way that people can get at
the gym in the car etc and then take
those little tiny one-piece Legos and
after a couple of months or a couple
years they go
I built a freaking castle thank you that
is what I want to do is make it
bite-sized enough that anyone and
everyone can do it in
makes their life better very similar to
what you're doing here I think thank you
man
great answer thank you so much for being
on the Thursday all right guys I'm
telling you there's a reason he's
considered the godfather of podcasting
this guy takes greatness to a whole new
level and I'm telling you that behind
the scenes everything that he's talking
about on camera and on the podcast he's
doing in real life I cannot emphasize
enough how excited I was to bring him on
the show because I wanted to do
something nice for him because he had
done so much for me so not only did I
think he'd be an amazing guest but that
sense of really building real
friendships nurturing them making sure
that they're blossoming of their own
accord and never literally you can feel
it and everything he does he's never
worrying about what the payoff is gonna
be and that is how you get a payoff and
you know me I'm a big believer in
holding to competing ideas in your head
and he is the master at this he knows
that that's a good strategy he knows
that and yet he can approach you with
such authenticity and give you those
Legos whether those Legos are a piece of
information whether they are a
connection he is doing that better than
anyone I think I've ever met in my
entire life it is absolutely
extraordinary there is much for me to
learn from this man he is whenever
possible one of the first videos I go to
research somebody that we have coming on
the show because he gets absolutely
amazin