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Language: en
to see the people who truly thrive in
life or the people who are willing to do
the things no one else is willing to do
and that's including the ability to sit
and meditate for an hour and that's
including the ability to go to the
deepest depths of the hardest sets in
the gym and those are the people that
succeed man and most people aren't able
are willing to do that because of the
story they tell themself as to why they
can't this hurts what that hurts like
one of the genetics or I don't have the
time or the ability there's all these
stories you tell yourself run what you
can't and if there's a story behind what
you can't you must most like I said if
you can't therefore you must so it's so
important to challenge your own [ __ ]
rules everybody welcome to hell theory
today's guest is ben pakulski he's an
IFBB professional bodybuilder who won
the mr. canva competition in 2008 and
competed in both of body buildings most
prestigious shows the mr. Olympia and
the Arnold Classic where he placed in
the top ten at three years running
making it as high as second place he's
been featured in countless magazines
including inside Fitness flex muscle mag
and Fitness rx to name but a few
and dude while you have the pedigree of
your typical professional bodybuilder I
would say you were anything but typical
and I love that you call yourself a
bodybuilding yogi yeah what do you mean
by that so for 20 years of my life as I
was just telling you I was very myopic
we focused on this objective of I want
to be the best body bill in the world I
want to be the biggest bodybuilding
world then I would be that you know when
mr. Olympia and I accomplished a lot of
cool things as you don't mention in the
intro and I accomplished a lot of goals
I accomplished a lot more than most
people ever believed I would I was that
kid who didn't have the genetics I was
that kid who didn't come from the right
family I didn't come from the financial
background I came from Canada so most
people thought you can't do it and I did
it so like if you told me I was 15 years
old that I'd get there walking on the
Olympia stage people I would be like how
that'll be my life dream and I'll be
satisfied and fulfilled and I was
probably the most empty I ever was in my
life walking on stage with mr. Olympia I
remember not wanting to take off my
shirt the day before because I felt so
insecure like people were gonna be
judging me and there's a lot of
emotional stuff there so that feeling
alone was a gift to me right
because it allowed me to have the
presence of mind the consciousness to go
well obviously this external journey
isn't going to fulfill me so what is it
you know and I started taking this
internal perspective of you know shining
light on myself now rather than shine
light on the external objective and so
many people do that you know they sin
they assume that the things outside of
them are gonna be the thing that
accomplishes that fulfillment and that
that just gratification so it's the
accomplishing of you know making money
or building body or whatever it is you
realize like you know that it's not like
you could have all the money in the
world and it's nice it gives you good
things it gives you opportunities but
until you start taking that journey
inside nothing feels good and so I was
very blessed to accomplish some goal is
young relatively and then I just
realized man that's that's not what's
going to fulfill me in life so it
allowed me to start stripping away the
layers of the onion the layers of the
ego and start looking deeper inside and
so now my journey is very much about
finding myself finding my true essence
my soul and realizing that at the core
of myself just as the core of yourself
you are loved and how can you get your
insecurity and fear out of the way to
let that love shine through so now my
journey is about you know teaching
people all of these the mistakes I made
along the way in Fitness because I still
love fitness and body but I think it's
still a beautiful thing I just teach it
from additional different perspective
now right rather than focusing on the
end goal focus on today and how can you
be the best person you can in this
workout in this interview in your
relationship and be present how can you
be with your family and your kids how
can you be present in your business
because that's how you build the best
body in the world that's how you build
the best business in the world is not
being absent and on the phone and with
your mind somewhere else when I'm in
this moment like the only thing I'm
thinking about what I'm sitting here
with you is this conversation with you
and delivering the best result I can
right now so if you're failing at
anything in your life it's because
you're not able to focus right you're
having a hard time being present and
focused and and for me yoga was this
amazing i opening experience because i
was 310 pounds when i started doing yoga
which is funny but at the same time it
was very difficult and one of my things
that i say often is
if you can't you must so I started
taking on this this belief that man I
really need to do yoga because I'm not
good at it and I got better and better
and better and a real thing that I that
I accomplished or that I saw was the the
necessity of being present otherwise you
can't hold those poses especially when
you're that big you know so I really
forced me to be present with my breath
to be present with my thought the
present with my positioning otherwise
I'm falling over and I can I use it as
kind of this daily test to come back and
see like you know if you're not able to
do these things or where's your mind
right to be able to hold those poses for
long periods of time really requires
presence and that's allowed me to shift
in my business in my life and my
relationships in my body you know like
allow me to get so much more focus so
much more output in less time so now I
don't have to train twice a day like I
did for 20 years I can train three and
four times a week get way better results
you know it's not as focus it's not as
much volume it's not as much food so
it's a different objective but I could
still get great results in great
workouts in much less time Jesus okay so
there's a whole lot in there no that was
[ __ ] amazing and is it really shows
exactly what I'm talking about in terms
of your approach is just so different
and I want to go back to something that
you said which gave me that real like
sense of dissonance based on what I'm
used to in life when a guy of your size
and stature says we're all loved what do
we mean by that sure I think it's a hard
thing especially as a strong man to be
vulnerable and to exude love and show
people that you actually care about them
and you know this realization that we're
all one and all I want people to know is
that if I come into any situation it's
sincere I have integrity and I'm
bringing love and that's it I have
opportunities in business that I know
are gonna make me tremendous amounts of
money but if it's not with the right
person because I don't feel good about
it I'm not doing it you know like if I
can make way more money in my life
working with [ __ ] but I feel like
[ __ ] right at the end of the day you
still have to want to feel good about
yourself I've made a lot of money in my
life and didn't feel good about it so I
didn't want to sleep well at night I
didn't wake up feeling great I'd rather
make less money and not everybody agree
with that but I think if you can come
from
of sincerity and honesty and love and
bring that to the world because people
will feel that man people will feel that
in you and they'll want to work with you
and they'll want to help you and they'll
want to contribute to your mission and
we all help each other contribute to
this bigger mission right so rather than
coming it from a place of anxiety and
fear and lack you're coming it from this
place of abundance and say I'm coming at
you with I'm just gonna help you I'm
gonna give selflessly that's what love
means to me you used another word when
you were talking which I find really
interesting and obviously knowing a
little bit about you and doing the
research I think I know where you're
going with this define integrity
integrity is a word that has been
slapping me in the face for the last
five years it's when you say you do
right and I think you know in the world
we live in that know very few people
live with integrity so if you say hey
I'm gonna wake up tomorrow at 4 a.m. or
I'm going to wake up tomorrow work out
even though I hate it you know use your
thing do you do it and nobody gives a
[ __ ] if you do but you know you always
know so I'm learning everyday that if
you give your word on something and that
could be in passing something as simple
as that I'll be there at 11 o'clock you
do it
you know and and I'm theory I say it
slapping me in the face is because
there's times man when I'm there 11:05
I'm like that's not integrity so it just
keeps like you need to learn to live
with integrity I'm getting those daily
lessons because I feel when I don't live
with integrity if I say to my kids I'm
gonna be there for your ballet recital
or your gymnastics or your hockey or
whatever right I must be there I move
heaven and earth when I look at my value
system to meet that those obligations to
me because I all say the other day
nobody knows if you did meditation this
morning nobody does if you did you yoga
no he knows if you did your workout but
you know right you know man and deed
you've nobody else v8 that Snickers bar
you know so I think that to me is
integrity and that's so valuable because
it doesn't matter what you do to the
outside world the only one person in the
world that matters knows the thing and I
find so interesting about bodybuilding
is you want to talk about say something
you better do it you're going to be up
on stage
essentially a speedo yeah and like it
really is there for people to see
whether you were consistent or something
with something and you see these guys
and women who can have this
extraordinary level of discipline to do
what they say they were gonna do in one
area of their life but then it doesn't
carry over to other areas do you think
that comes down to value system and does
it come down to just like a
self-awareness about why you're doing it
like its value I think it's also degree
of pain you know like people who are in
the fitness office space often have a
massive degree of pain somewhere and
it's paint avoidance so like they have
insecurities they have fears and they're
running away from them and this is their
way of masking it so the fitness
industry for better at worse is one of
the most egocentric industries in the
world right we're very asleep we're very
unconscious typically right so and I
would live that light weight for 20
years it was so myopically focused on I
have to work out no matter what happened
I'm cutting away everything in my life
nothing else mattered but that thing and
to me it was very unconscious like I
didn't go in there and I wasn't present
in my workout I tried to - I did turn my
brain off like I just wanted to go in
there not think and train well now it's
the exact opposite right it's this
attempt to use every single minute of my
work out every single repetition to
become more present to become more
conscious to learn how to feel my body
connect with my body feel my muscles aim
to challenge the muscles as most the
most that I can in the smallest amount
of time so you know that's kind of where
Fitness has shifted to for me is
becoming more conscious becoming more
present where most people are using it
to mute out their pain mute out their
anxiety right which is real like and so
we all have pain we all have anxiety and
some people use food so people use drugs
and people use workouts it's just coping
strategies right so how do we then
create a positive coping strategy and
you could already could argue that
working out as a positive coping
strategy for something and some it's not
right it's a destructive coping strategy
if you take people's workouts away they
fall apart and that's where that is
people are using it as a negative coping
strategy just like a drug you take it
away feel like an addict they're gonna
be angry they're not going to live
they're gonna have anxiety they're gonna
feel terrible about themselves so
hopefully we can encourage people to
start using it as
opportunity to become present and use
that as a positive coping strategy last
year I climbed a mountain in Mammoth so
for the first hour and a half I was
dreading it in my mind because I hadn't
trained for it I was like oh my gosh
this is gonna be terrible this is gonna
be the worst thing ever and for the
first hour and a half I dreaded it like
my legs were burning it was terrible and
I became conscious and in that moment it
was like how am i doing
like I mean the most beautiful place in
the world I'm with two of my best
friends in the world I'm outside I'm
alive I have legs I took a breath and I
smiled miss it thank you and the next
six hours up the mountain I floated like
if you just have the ability to change
your perspective and say I want to be
President I want to enjoy this I want to
realize this is an opportunity to become
better or it's an opportunity to
indoctrinate deeper into this negativity
that I have right now it's always this
this yin and yang that sits in front of
you you have this opportunity to go man
I'm going to use this opportunity today
this pain this discomfort that I'm
bringing on myself to become better like
meditation same thing discipline right
you can use it as an opportunity I gotta
meditate or like I get to meditate right
it's it's always there man it's always
perspective yeah it's interesting
speaking of perspective the way that you
approach transforming the body
transforming the mind your whole notion
of the six pillars which I was I found
really interesting so one what are just
sort of in a nutshell the six pillars
because I think people are gonna be
surprised how much of building the body
for you comes down to working through
the mind other stuff yeah so I'm you
know for the last four or five years I'm
really trying to decode all of the
things that go into building a great
physique right so most people are very
myopically focused on one some people
are focus on two you talk to
nutritionists it's all nutrition you
talk to a trainer it's all training well
know right like it's not all anything
it's not 90% nutrition and 10% training
it's it's everything that goes in it's
this integration of all the pieces so
I've really been trying to dispel it
down to what are all these things that
actually go into building your grey
physique so training is obviously a big
piece so listing out the pillars
training is a big piece there's no
question you have to create the stimulus
right there's no question in training
could be anything from weight lifting to
- running - CrossFit - whatever it is
for you man and then obviously so
walking down the line this is the
hierarchy that I put them in so I put
training at the top of the list because
without the stimulus no you're not gonna
build anything and then following that
down the list I put sleep very very high
on the list so because without sleep
anything you do and I'll explain why
anything you do doesn't stick below that
I talked about you know depending how
you want articulate it I talked about
stress and the autonomic nervous system
and that for most people like what the
hell you talking about what that comes
down to is breathing and meditation
right so the way your body is
interpreting your environment your
thoughts the things that go into your
body is all regulated by the autonomic
nervous system right so if I'm stressed
what happens my body releases cortisol
my body releases adrenaline
if this general adaptation response so
if I put a gun to your head it could be
a similar response in your body as
somebody cutting off in traffic or as
you going and doing a really hard leg
workout those are all just
amplifications different amplifications
of stress right so how I respond to that
is extremely important so we have this
sympathetic branch which is a stress
response and I have the parasympathetic
branch which is a rest and digest
response so the tone of these two
systems is going to determine kind of
the state where my body is right now so
if you're someone who's always like
high-strung and very tense and very
anxious you're more sympathetic if or
someone who's chilled out and more
relaxed and more meditative you're more
parasympathetic and if you're putting
great food and great training stimulus
into a sympathetic stressed state it's
not going to be the same responses if
you're putting the exact same food in
the same training into a parasympathetic
body talk more about that this is so
interesting and I would have called
[ __ ] on that three four years ago
and then my wife went through a whole
microbiome issue and one of the things
that doctors kept telling her is if
you're eating in a stress state you're
going to have a negative digestive
response and I just thought that's that
can't be true it is so it is way true
yeah it's just it's just you know the
study of the autonomic nervous system so
if as I said parasympathetic is the
state of rest and digests so if I sit
down to eat and I'm in a sympathetic
state my body is literally shunting the
blood
to the to the limbs to move shutting
down digestion mobilizing energy from my
muscles in my liver into the blood so
that I can it's called the
fight-or-flight system so I can fight or
flee like evolutionarily what are we
doing throughout the day when stress
arises right either there's a lion over
there there's a snake or there's someone
I get a fight there's no car there's no
email there's no boss yelling at me
there's no IRS you know those things
don't exist so evolutionarily we've
adapted to have this stress response in
response to like oh [ __ ] I need to kill
something or something's gonna try to
kill me and that's it and those were
always followed by what movement and an
action right so your body was able to
use those nutrients that was sending in
to the blood for movement activity and
then once those things were gone you
could go back into this parasympathetic
state and maybe you ate what you just
killed or maybe you get to rest for a
little bit after you just hopefully
killed the enemy or whatever right so
those those actions of the sympathetic
nervous system were always preceded by
movement and now when we get cut off in
the car what's it followed by sitting on
a butt so our body becomes very
resistant to those things and and
cortisol stays elevated chronically so
cortisol naturally has this rhythm of
being elevated in the morning and
hopefully tapering off throughout the
day but unfortunately because of the
light because of the stress because of
cars because of EMF because of all these
things court of law tends to stay all of
it it never really comes down and how
does that manifest right that manifests
at a racing mind and a mind that doesn't
sleep and if somebody can't fall asleep
at night and someone who wakes up in the
morning not feeling rest or they wake up
in the morning feeling anxiety all of
those things are correlates of this
highly sympathetic state not allowing
our body to actually do it it's supposed
to do when we sleep waking up in the
morning and feeling terrible right so
that and then I want to get doing them
or I need a coffee why what is coffee
people what's spikes your cortisol so it
gives you that energy right and then
guess what happens
same negative perpetuating loop so
that's one side of it conversely if I
can learn to implement these
parasympathetic stimuli so in my life in
my training principles all implement
parasympathetic days so people think off
days and like champions don't take off
days we take parasympathetic days what's
the difference and off there is sitting
on my butt doing nothing or still doing
things that are stressful a
parasympathetic day maybe I wake up in
the morning and I walk or I do yoga or I
breathe or meditate
or I do a float tank or I do I connect
with my loved ones and I do things that
make me that fill my soul they fill my
cup and it's connected with my kids just
being outside
that's a parasympathetic activity that's
recharging your batteries it's plugging
in right and that's bringing down that
sympathetic tone a parasympathetic day
doesn't include my phone
it doesn't include my email it doesn't
include work meetings right things that
I know they're gonna stress me out and
you know man we all experience this
without knowing it and you'll go away
for three days to or for a week to some
place remotely with your wife or by
yourself and you come back and go I just
feel so much better I don't know why my
brain works better I workout today it
was really really good
I'm not really sure why that is I kind
of didn't you know that much while I was
away or maybe I ate way more and I got
leaner and we all experienced that but
we don't really kind of articulate why
we don't really correlate what's
happening well that's what it is
so to understand it for people who are
in fitness the sympathetic system is a
system of catabolic states so it's it's
mobilizing energy that can be useful
when it's cyclical so I mean it's
mobilizing more carbohydrate and more
fat for activity that's useful in the
morning that's used to when I'm training
that's useful to potentially burn more
fat but if it's perpetual your body
becomes resistant to it starts releasing
more and doesn't work as well
this parasympathetic state is an
anabolic state so recover it's a rest
digest and recover
so if we want to be growing if one
building muscle if we want to be
recovering this is the state so we
literally have to learn how to balance
these two states so I suggest to most
people 2 hours a day sympathetic 22
hours a day parasympathetic two hours
the days in the workout right trained
trained heart intentionally create that
sympathetic state but then I need to be
able to calm down and be present and be
calm and be able to have a conversation
that's not anxious and fearful and
reactive rather than responsive and
that's a parasympathetic reality and the
way you can measure this now you can
quantify this stuff with your heart rate
variability right people have probably
started hearing more about HRV I'm a
massive fan I've got my ring everywhere
I go
measuring your HIV so HIV is a direct
correlate with this autonomic control so
if I see a low HIV
means my nervous system is doing this in
this really small flux and I'm not
getting a lot of sympathetic stress and
I'm never really coming down into a
parasympathetic state which is where
most people live low Harry variability
or what I want it's a high amount of
heart rate variability right I want the
ability to get really really amplified
for those hard intense sets in the
workout and I want to be able to calm
down and almost be a yogi in my calm
state right so this idea of the body
building yogi I want to be able to be
very very explosive and strong and fast
and able to work really really hard
cutely and then I want to be able to be
completely Zen on the other end you said
something that really hit me champions
don't take days off I love that your
mindset around excellence and pushing is
does not seem to have diminished at all
even though now you're no longer
pursuing bodybuilding but even the way
that you're approaching business or even
the way that you approach your family
like there's this desire for a level of
excellence I've heard you talk in
interviews in a way that I find so
intoxicating about how rarely people
push themselves how they don't want to
do the hard things what is the role of
doing difficult things in your life why
does it matter and and I guess
encompassing all of that like how does a
champion live I have this very blessed
life where I get to surround myself with
people like yourself who are just
pushing the limit of physical ability of
mental ability of even spiritual ability
so I'm sitting back and watching how
people act and they operate and and to
see the people who truly thrive in life
or the people who are willing to do the
things no one else is willing to do and
that's including the ability to sit and
meditate for an hour and that's
including the ability to go to the
deepest depths of the hardest sets in
the gym and those are the people that
succeed man and most people aren't able
are willing to do that because of the
story they tell themselves as to why
they can't wow this hurts what that
hurts are one of the genetics or I don't
have the time or the ability there's all
these stories you tell yourself around
what you can't and if there's a story
behind what you can't you must most like
I said if you can't therefore you must
so it's so important to challenge your
own [ __ ] rules right and this is
where the integrity comes back if you
really want to succeed in anything if
there's a fire in your heart
to do something it's going to take way
more than you think and you talk about
this with your success of couthe quest
like it talks it's gonna take so much to
succeed so much more than you think it
took so much more than anyone sees for
me to be a great body builder like there
was days or my soul was crushed crushed
and I you know maybe I had a hard moment
and I was like let's go
I found that way to recover go deep in
my soul and now I've been able to
quantify that right it's like those hard
moments are are your soul calling for
this parasympathetic activity those
moments where you just like oh my god I
can't do any more good say thank you go
do the breath go do a meditate calm day
it's not just a matter of not doing
anything it's a matter of learning how
to go deep within your soul and recover
so this active parasympathetic activity
allows then the higher amplification of
the other end right this chasing
intensity and some people especially
these strong men are afraid to sit down
and meditate they're afraid to be bold
enough to say dude I do yoga because it
makes me be able to work harder than the
other end like if I don't recharge my
batteries I can't be present for my kids
I can't be present for my wife or my
business and here's a great test for a
long time my kids they're my kids are
amazing they're the most wonderful human
beings that I've met in my life
and they're energetic and there's days
where they're screaming and they're
yelling and they're banging and the
breaking stuff irritates you but that's
not a reflection of them that's a
reflection of my inability to to respond
or react to that stress right so that
I've been able to see this now
definitively if there's days when that
stuff bugs me or if your wife is
irritating there's nothing to do with
her and everything to do with the way
your body is sensing that I want to talk
more about self narrative so hearing you
say there were moments where your
soldiers crossed or even in the
beginning where you're talking about
you're about to walk on stage but one of
the biggest shows of your life and
you're so insecure to take your shirt
off we're literally 99.9% of humanity
would stab somebody to look like you're
look how do you begin to build yourself
back up in fact when I was researching
you this probably the most interesting
thing you said it really [ __ ] hit me
that every day the first thing you have
to do is build your mom
whoa that's so interesting to think
about it gave me the chills just think
about it now to have to build your mind
every day what do you mean by that
I literally sit down and I did this for
a long time my career and create the
person I want to be I can take 30
seconds to five minutes before I come in
here and I can tell myself Who I am what
I what I need to bring to this
conversation what I need to bring to
this environment so I can't go into my
daughter's bedroom when she's two or
four five now and be the same man that I
am going into my leg session I can't be
the same man that I am going into my
business like I have to literally create
these little versions like these little
multiple personalities if I really want
to thrive right is if I'm the same
person this is gonna be a terrible
overlap somebody's gonna look terribly
wrong so I need to learn to sit down and
map it out like who do I want to be and
what does that feel like and what's my
posture and what's my breathing and
what's my cadence and how do I create
that in every different scenario that's
the way you succeed and that's hard in
the beginning right that so I try not to
use that term like I don't believe
anything is hard I just believe you need
to practice right like nothing is really
hard what's hard just means you haven't
packed enough yet so I sit down the
beginning you're like man it's really
hard to really hard to create this mind
that I want to be to be a champion
bodybuilder in the gym it's really hard
to create this mind that's this romantic
caring lover with my wife it's really
hard to create this this dad who's able
to play dolls and dance with my daughter
you know but it's not
it just takes consistency practice
intelligence and this is where
meditation comes in man like if I'm not
meditating I see the difference you're
not showing up with your a-game to talk
to Tom bill you're not showing up with
you a game to talk with your daughter
and they're gonna notice I want to hear
more about these avatars I've never
heard anybody talk about that before and
it's one of those things as soon as you
say it it sounds immediately true and
when I think about myself
certainly there are different sides of
my personality that I would bring but
I've never intentionally created sort of
individual avatars they give people like
the actual words or maybe it's images I
don't know you talked about breathing
cage or but like the part we were saying
am i and especially as you use it in
those moments where you feel broken or
lost or scared or whatever how do you
cultivate an avatar that's gonna be
there when you need it and then when you
need it how do you call upon it is it to
say words is it to stand a certain way
is it to picture the avatar like what is
that look at all those right so I can
anchor any different thing to become
that person so it's like when I stick my
keys in the door and I hear my keys
jingle I'll pay attention to my keys for
a moment and I'll breathe and I realize
I'm anchoring dad right and I had this
other benefit as I said as I opened the
door my kids would always be like how
can you not feel your heart right and
then I'm dead so what does that look
like well that means I'm not stressed
I'm not bringing work home with me I'm
not thinking about anything other than
how can I fill my kids cup because I
know I don't get 24 hours a day with
them right I'm not a stay-at-home dad I
wish I was I'm not I get four hours a
day with them and I want every minute to
be present and man I'm not perfect like
there's days where I'm like calling me
and I got this to do I gotta catch up
and I'm like oh cuz what are you telling
them right you're saying hey you're not
as important as this and we're all so
addicted to this right to our phone no
man I want my kids to know they're the
most important thing in my life and then
obviously in training there's you know
for me for a long time i sat in my car
and everyone's like dude we doing like I
said my car five or ten minutes because
I have to sometimes it takes really
digging deep into your soul to
understand your why like why am I gonna
go in there and have the hardest workout
I'm tired I don't want to go I'm a
hungry there's a million places I'd
rather be than going to the gym or how
to do this leg workout or whatever it is
what I have to do who do I have to
become Who am I right why am I here what
I start and I'm really ready time and
have journal in my glove box that sit
there and write it down why did I start
why am I here who am i impacting how am
i help in the world why am i doing this
and all those things are just things
that I journal on and I'd say you know
we just be like this expression of my
soul why don't I want to do it like well
the reasons why I don't want to do it
sometimes I look at those and those are
the fire was the fuel of the fire that
was the kindling right but I want to be
great like anything I do I want I want
to be not just okay
how do you deal with self-doubt I
struggle with that for a very long time
we all experience it
myself included yourself included and
all the listeners know should know that
like it's not something that's exclusive
to you sitting at home it's everybody
I think feeling where it's coming from
and not being afraid of it not being
don't try to bury it
I think explore it right I think where's
it coming from why is it there and
realized it's probably some story that
you're telling yourself about you know
something maybe someone in your past put
on you or some belief that has been kind
of cast on you from your parents or
someone in your past and it's not a bad
thing you know maybe it's it's fuel
maybe it just requires you forgiving the
person who put it there and then
thanking them and being legitimately
truthful and grateful to them to say man
thank you for making the person me the
person that I am and allowing me to be
stronger allowing me to be resilient to
stress so that I think a lot of people
try to bury the fear the negativity and
the anxiety rather than sitting with it
right so when you have anxiety what do
you do and take a pill why why not say
why it's here yes this is incredibly
uncomfortable but this too shall pass
how do I sit with this and use this as
feel if I have anxiety there's a reason
that anxiety is there how do I use that
to propel like I literally will say
thank you I'll smile and I go what's
going on how do I make this better
like is it my is it my family is it my
finances is it what are these things
that like what is it and how do I
address it now fuel you've got a quote
I'm gonna get it a little bit wrong but
I'll get the idea right in the depths of
your darkest moments smile yeah and the
deepest depths of your darkest hour is
your greatest opportunity to become your
greatest self right and there's some
iteration of that right yeah so when
things get hard when all of the clouds
are rolling in the Thunder starts to
roll and this is this is where I grow
this is where I thrive because if
there's something that's hard in your
life now it's because you need to grow
right so I intentionally try to bring
those things into your life you're like
cool this is gonna be hard I hold on
tight man let's go because I know at the
other end either I'm gonna die I'm gonna
be stronger right and and if you accept
death as
of a reality of life and not fear it
well if I die hmm okay but otherwise I'm
just got stronger man and that is
something that bodybuilding taught me
and some I've had some really amazing
people in my life who have brought that
mentality into my life and I think in
our current society we put death at a
distance like we try not to embrace it
well like I think if we learn to keep
death a little bit closer to us and
respect it we would live our lives a
little bit more consciously a little bit
more on purpose that is not where I
expected that answer to go in the best
possible way that's so interesting so I
think a lot about death in the sense of
I want to live forever and I try to like
put then you know put the notion away
from you because I actually do think
about it and I find it pretty intriguing
and I tried to I'm like you were talking
about with heart rate variability and
working hard and going from the
sympathetic to the parasympathetic I try
to swing that hard to both look at my
life from the perspective of how would I
be if I could live forever and and for
me that's an exercise in potential like
I'm willing to like impact theory for me
as I think of it as a 70 year plan yeah
okay so at my age that's probably not
true unless something my radical happens
but it to me it makes sense to act as if
but shouldn't you live today like you're
gonna die tomorrow exactly and so
there's a meditation I often do that
sometimes people have a hard time
feeling gratitude and it was a big
hugely impactful for me then I still do
it often think about if if you died
right now and you had that one moment to
come back and spend a minute with your
family and that won't want to come back
to be present with the people you love
just meditate on that like if you if you
if you died right now you never got to
come back and see them again what would
you give to come back for that one
moment and meditate on that tomorrow
morning
and tell me how you feel and tell me you
can't wake up and be grateful you're
gonna wake up with a smile on your face
and you're gonna run toward the people
you love and go like bring tears to my
eyes like thank you right and if you
can't do that I suggest you do I want to
look at the flip side of the the sort of
facing death coin when you were talking
the thing that first in me Anna know
if you have heard Will Smith's quote the
reason that I succeed or whatever is
because I'm willing to die on the
treadmill yeah I always found that so
interesting and part of what I find so
interesting about that is the fact that
it is a treadmill so it isn't just that
like oh I'm willing to die for my family
or for something so grand it's when you
first said it I imagined you going into
a leg workout which are obviously pretty
famous for like going in and hitting
these workouts in a way that's like
makes people queasy at the very thought
of it if I were to have to tell somebody
like what is the champion mindset I
would say it's that it's the willingness
to die on the treadmill because you have
such a strong why there's something that
you find so compelling that you're
willing to push forward yeah if you're
gonna succeed at something it's gonna
take a long time it's probably going to
be a lot of long hours a lot of long
days that are probably gonna look very
very similar
that's the treadmill right and it's this
idea of I just want to give my all or
whatever it happens to be that day and
it's very challenging to be present in
current society because there's so many
things pulling our attention and I think
it all has to start with that it has all
has to start with being present and
finding your why and then that hopefully
if that was strong enough for you we'll
pull you and it does for me man I'm so
blessed to be alive and I feel so
grateful to have this opportunity that I
have like I feel like I've been reborn
after bodybuilding not because I had I
regret bodybuilding in any way but I
feel like for so many years I was my op
eclis focused on this one thing and now
I have this opportunity to go and do the
next 50 years 100 years whatever it is
day one day and live it to its fullest
and pursue whatever it is I want to do
that day but do it to the best of my
ability
that's a I'm not perfect man like I keep
bringing that up but there's days on my
car man you know or just you make some
rationalization as the way you don't do
it integrity this comes back what do you
say to people that don't have a why
that's probably the not in those exact
words but the thing that I get asked the
most is like how do you find your
passion sit with yourself by yourself
turn your phone off with yourself sit
with your anxiety see with your
discomfort look at the things you don't
want to do because that's read to go I
think most people just don't spend
enough time by them
like one hour of solitude today sounds
like torture to some people right sit
with yourself man say your thoughts and
it may take time let me take a long time
but I think at some point you'll know
what you don't want to do and you'll
know that will start to chip away what
you do want to do right yeah everything
in life has polarities so in order to
experience bliss you must experience
pain I believe right if everything is
always just lukewarm you never really
know which direction to go I think most
people don't ever push themself towards
something because they're always in this
world of comfort we've created a world
of tremendous comfort you know including
their houses are and everything's just
easy so if you don't intentionally seek
out things that are challenging to you
you'll never know like oh I like that or
don't like that right so there has to be
this polarizing experience in life it's
interesting I'm super fascinated by the
idea of doing the hard things but I
think for very different reasons so I
have a strong feeling that part of what
haunts people in a modern context is
you're not being chased by a lion and so
there's nothing that forces you into
earning credibility with yourself which
I think the mind has something innate to
it that's like you did this [ __ ] hard
thing and because of that there's a
neurochemical reward I don't know why
that is I'm sure it has something to do
from an evolutionary perspective the
lazy Fox ended up getting eaten they
weren't hunting so there's like
something in us that's pushing us and
propelling us to have a desire to have
done something hard if that makes sense
but in a modern context we can avoid a
lot of that and because we also have in
us from an evolutionary perspective the
desire to conserve calories because we
didn't know when we were going to get
the next we have this weird competing
desire the desire then you experience
pain as well right because if I avoid
the hard things now
I will pay the piper later because I
will experience pain from lack of doing
things right so you know if you push
hard now you just you experience the
pain no but if you don't do anything now
what's the pain in the future well I
don't have money or I don't have food or
I don't have fitness all right I'm gonna
die like I don't like myself I think
that's the one that's the [ __ ] scares
me from yes either experience the pain
of discipline or experience the pain of
regret right that's the ultimate reality
like you
experience it not re-experience later
but you're gonna experience it and
choose it man like I love the idea of be
able to choose my pain she used my
discipline like oh I like that like it's
do more of that and therefore I get
better at that thing versus like oh [ __ ]
my pain is gonna be chosen for me and I
talk to my kids all the time about that
it's like do you want to choose your
life you want someone choose it for you
I want to use it great I'll choose it
otherwise if you sell your ass I'm gonna
choose it for you right like go do it
whatever you want to do as long as you
do it well that's just the reality I
think that's pretty simple way for
people to get it man pick your
discipline otherwise the world's gonna
pick it for you you know that that's how
we approach everything with anybody's is
intentionally seek the things that are
going hard rather than avoidance and I
think as many people on our culture
don't get the opportunity to have
parents who push them that way so guess
what good cuz you gotta do yourself you
know rather than go I didn't have the
parents didn't want the genetics or the
money or the time good because now you
get to do it to get to attitude alright
so talk to me about that person they
don't have the genetics they don't have
the time they've got every story you
tell yourself man like I was obese my
family's alcoholics tall overweight I
have speech impediment and learning
disability like talk about like the
polar opposite of what you would expect
me to grow up to do right but I realized
I didn't have a learning disability I
didn't have a speech impediment I was
just a really really fearful kid so my
dad had an explosive temper I come home
and things were just upside down and I'd
sit there and I'd shake and I like any
time I talked to an authority all the
way up into university I would stutter
because I didn't have a stutter when I
talk to my friends but I talked to
someone who was afraid of I get scared
I was like that's my dad and I finally
realized that it's like okay so I don't
have a problem it's just the story I was
telling myself right and once you
release those fears once you release
that story you're telling yourself
you're like you're empowered to go I
just don't have the skills yet I can't
yet if we just add that little word at
the end of her sentence all of a sudden
you're empowered to go I could do
anything man I can literally do anything
and if you take that attitude into a job
interview if you take that or do it into
business I can do anything
everyone's gonna hire you those are the
people I want to hire man if you're
someone who says I can do anything I
want to hire you like I mean I'm not
really sure no thanks not for me right
and then all of a sudden doors start to
open up
and you know you know as a business
owner there's so few people who take on
that attitude like if he's if I give you
a problem you're coming to a job
interview I kindly share to do this see
you later
like I don't know how to do it man I'm
gonna figure out I'm gonna do a big
smile buffets I'm do it better than
everybody else that's the attitude right
so get ultra tactical for me how do you
go from where you were
not without the genetics to be the
bodybuilder like what are people
listening right now they want to make
that kind of change they want to
radically alter so physique you realize
that it's never the skills and tactics
it's always this you know because I
could give people the best work and the
best nutrition plan in the world and so
many people still seem to fall short so
I've started reverting back to these you
know one of my six pillars is mindset
it's the mental mastery game so what
does that look like right it's it's one
stopping the story you're telling
yourself and when you do that and you
just take action so I create a list of
daily action items right so I have an
action plan so I'll talk to you on the
phone and I'll be like you Tom one of
the things that holding you back and all
you don't have to tell me I'll pull it
out of your words and I'll be like okay
well here's the things I need you to do
every day are you willing to do that and
for most people it's starting with small
victories right it's starting with came
out I need you to wake up every morning
and no matter where you are in the world
I need you to go outside I need you to
walk at least 20 minutes ideally 60
minutes can you do that yes okay I need
you to breathe can you do that five
minutes a day can you do that yes okay
let's start there right and maybe we do
a small a couple small elimination from
your nutrition plan can you start there
and then like after a few days of like
hey man I feel good about this what's
next and then we start building on this
habit stacking right we start building
on those small victories and I don't say
those those two habits you know
haphazardly I think those are the two
that I think everyone should start with
so like people people come to me for
like you know I want to build a bunch of
muscle okay here's your first month walk
and breathe like what yeah if you can't
do those things
one consistently how do you expect to
pass and succeed it at a workout program
to the parasympathetic influence right
so walking and breathing one walking is
correlated with improve motivation
increased dopamine increased
neuroplasticity all these things that
are gonna help your brain grow and
improve your psychological state and
breathing as I said earlier it was like
it's the gateway into this
parasympathetic state so the calming
down your stress
the ability to recover if you can't do
those things for 30 days how do you
expect to succeed over 2 5 and 10 years
you can't so it's always human beings
tend to complicate things right so I
want people to start looking at the
simplest common denominator and I'm the
I'm the biggest fit and what I was a kid
fight well you know you're gonna
professional body what someone's told me
to walk and laugh
walking's for old people I take my kids
on walks now because this bilateral
stimulation has been correlated with
connecting the hemispheres in the brain
allowing your brain to work more clearly
allowing your brain to improve dopamine
secretion improve neuroplasticity so
there's so many benefits to that walk at
the you know the zero hour as soon as
you wake up she was on out the door it
doesn't have to be hard it just has to
be done and progressive it's like you
know at some point you want to get to
the pole or something you're walking
like somebody's chasing you but it's all
run if you want to run but again it
becomes a it becomes a mindful practice
it becomes like can I turn this thing
into something that's meditative so
anyone sitting at home with it with a
conversation around where they can't
start there no matter what the goal is
like even if you're going I want to
build an awesome business good walk
because if you can't do that you're
never gonna meditate
you're never gonna journal you're never
gonna do the financial things you need
to do the simplest thing man if you
don't pay attention to your health
everything else is gonna falter yeah for
sure what are some basic things you have
people do to there died he said maybe
elimination or things so depending how
hardcore people are how far down the
line they are like I usually eat like a
very small number of foods I just need
more of them and I think this idea of
variety is relevant but only within a
small subcategory of foods so I'll list
out the foods that I often you know you
wild meat so like red meat fish don't
eat a lot of chicken and turkey even
though people think that's better I you
know any type of wild meat that I can
find I eat green organic green
vegetables ate a lot of berries olive
oil avocado coconut oil coffee and
chocolate intention chocolate that was
not the one I like without sugar added
polyphenols
yeah so I'm a big fan of adding
polyphenols into the diet for brain
health and longevity in the nervous
system so a lot of those foods are in
there for polyphenols olive oil included
many benefits to olive oil
those are my foods and I'll just eat
varying amounts and occasionally all I
didn't sweet potatoes like so it's
pretty much a ketogenic diet but if I
feel like I'm training hard or if I want
to have a sweet potato because I feel
like having a sweet potato I will write
and things I eliminate our grains and
dairy and corn and soy and women all
that stuff it's just inflammatory right
I don't think it's necessary so that's
the simplest way to do it is people
always looking for the new miraculous
diet they want to follow as Aikido is it
vegan is it carnivore is it God whatever
I think it depends man like where are
you in the season of life so in summer
time it's a different season than winter
in stressful times it's different than
when you're in abundance you know man
like everything needs to change
according to physiology so in in my
nutrition training I teach people
strategies I teach them like you know
how to actually think their way through
like hey this is where I'm in life a lot
of that has to do with how hard am i
training right now what is my goal right
now what's the season of life right now
is it sunny outside because that's a
very different thing that if it's not
right so your body's gonna respond very
very differently man so those are those
are some of the kind of strategies and
tactics what are some high level things
like seasonality that's one so what do
you do different in the summer versus
the winter well so vitamin D has a huge
impact on your body's ability to use
carbohydrate so if you're getting a lot
of sunshine you can increase your
carbohydrate significantly so that's a
big one so in the wintertime maybe it
makes more sense evolutionarily to have
more meat and more fat because you may
have had access to animals but you man
had access to bananas and pineapples so
taking your way through that and you can
significantly decrease your protein and
taking your fat intake in the summertime
right so it's a cyclical approach that's
you know the simplest thing you can do
and then you know subsequent to that
where's your stress if your stress is
elevated most people on a ketogenic diet
that actually can add to your stress
right so if carbohydrates are actually a
great way to modulate stress in the body
so as cortisol goes up if we bring
insulin or carbohydrate up typical
course all comes down your body can use
carbohydrate and insulin to actually
modulate cortisol so if we have a high
amount of stress maybe it's a good way
to help us bring stress down you know
and I'll use that strategically to sleep
so if someone has a racing mind at night
and they can't calm themselves down
there's a few things you can do to start
calming down you
system carbohydrate being one of them
anything it's a GABA agonist being
another one said GABA is a
neurotransmitter in the brain that can
help to calm down that racing mind so
some supplement examples would be GABA
as an example glutamate or a good amine
or glycine or taurine is a good example
so those are good supplements that help
you calm people down to kind of bring
into that more parasympathetic state
before bed mm-hmm you said you don't eat
a lot of chicken and turkey why not well
the quality of it in America is very
poor right there typically eating soy
and corn so they can be high and more
omega-6 fats even so most people like
chicken and turkey or better I'm lucky
you know fish great great great fast
ratios and then wild meats gonna have
because they're fed on grass or wild
things they're gonna have a better ratio
fats give me an example of some wild
meats venison elk I do eat grass-fed
beef I not a lot of anymore bison things
that I know where they're coming from
and I find some antelope earth I find
some moose or kangaroo or something like
that and that's just because it's
different and it's got a better fat
profile and I know it's eating food
that's good like I don't want to eat an
animal that's eating food that's crappy
man in accordance away are not good for
us and do you think about calories you
counting macros like most people not
right like I'm like hey here's your list
of foods eat as much as you want and if
they need a guidance then yeah of course
like hello you can't refute that
calories matter at some point but for
most people if you just eliminate all
the crappy foods they're probably gonna
eat less because they're gonna feel
better they're gonna be you know
actually nourishing their body and not
just be hungry all the time of reading
empty calories you're gonna be hungry
all the time we're insta-love seeing it
all over the place you hungry so if we
just give them good foods like good
meats good fats good vegetables I think
it'd just feel better and the likelihood
of having to count calories goes down
significantly if someone's doing a
contest or someone's to get in shape of
course like we're gonna we're gonna
figure out a way to manage calories
right but for average people man just
like limit the number of food choices
and obviously within within wild meats
there's a ton of variety within green
vegetables there's a ton of variety
within berries is a ton of variety right
even with olive oil there's different
regions of the world you can get olive
oil right so there's a variety within
those things
and so there's variety within that but
it's still just kind of a different
subcategory now one thing I want to ask
you've talked a lot about that cardio
may not be the best way to burn fat what
is the best way to burn fat well so I
think aerobic fitness is a foundation of
everyone's health and if you have a base
level of aerobic health then doing
intelligent weight training
so we're strategically manipulate the
density of the workout so Rick I have
more space between sets it's gonna have
less density if it has less space
between sets so less shorter rest period
has a more greater density right so
that's gonna be more metabolically
taxing to the body asking the body to
burn more calories during training so
that's gonna be a great way to burn fat
or high intensity cardio where we're
doing something that's really really max
effort with short bouts of rest so an
example being like a three-to-one ratio
so if I'm doing a 20 second
high-intensity interval I'm gonna have
about a 60 second rest period that's a
great place for people to start and and
if you're not in very good health take a
longer rest period but but before you do
any of that create a foundational
aerobic fitness right without that like
this this general ability to do aerobic
exercise at grow big activity your
body's not going to digest food well
you're not gonna recover well from
workouts your brains not going to work
well like all those things are just side
effects of poor aerobic health if you
don't have them you'll have poor
recovery in etc all right so I know that
you have a lot of programs and stuff
around exercise specifically where can
people go to find out more about you
your programs yes I've got a podcast
that's been doing really well and so
it's called muscle intelligence call the
muscle intelligence podcast which may
not be the most accurately named right
so it may be more more like something
like what you're doing is like I'm
trying to find amazing people doing
amazing things so when people hear
muscle intelligence so like I was just
about building muscle it's not it's
about so much more it's getting into
like all the things that I talk about
right ben pakulski comm is currently
under construction muscle intelligence
comm is about to launch my most recent
program is hypertrophy mastery comso
hypertrophy being muscle building
mastery and it's not even necessarily
just for muscle building it's for anyone
who wants to learn how to train for your
body so I really get into
individualization so like you doing a
bench press me doing the bench press not
the same thing right so
walking through everybody partying in
like a coarse format where we give tons
of great execution tips and great you
know how to approach the workout how to
approach setting up a setting up your
own workout like what orders you should
do things like that nice yeah alright if
you were gonna have people make one
change to their diet or fitness or
whatever that would have the biggest
impact on their health what would you
have them change coming back to the
stuff we talked about at the beginning
it's learning how to become present so
sometimes it's just like stopping for a
second and feeling it's maybe just pay
attention to the sounds the sights the
way your body feels and your breath and
just do that and like rather than
blocking things out like take a second
to feel the tension in your body take a
second to feel the breath take a second
to hear the sounds in the room and it's
become present and I think the ability
to do that if you start with those micro
increments over time eventually they
become longer and eventually hopefully
it becomes your whole life or you can
become present become thoughtful become
you know very very present your ability
to articulate yourself so that you know
that starts everything because if you
want to make a change in your life it
has to start with being present because
95% of our activity after 35 is
unconscious so how do we become present
enough to make a change because it's so
challenging nothing's hard it's
challenging to become present enough to
change and that's what people lack thank
you so much for being on the show
she had guys if you haven't already be
sure to subscribe and until next time my
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