Kind: captions
Language: en
six out of seven people who go on a diet
lose weight
it's pretty simple it's not easy
people don't adhere long term to
diets about 90 plus percent of people
gain the weight back within three years
having said all of that
if you're overweight significantly
overweight obese probably a bmi
exceeding 30-35
95 of the health benefits that you'll
realize
are strictly from the weight loss itself
irrespective of the diet
stan efferding welcome to the show thank
you for having me i appreciate it i'm
really excited so
changing your body composition is one of
the most difficult things i've ever done
in my life it's also
when i think about mindset and i think
about entrepreneurship
if i could give anybody the gift it
would be to get them to go into the gym
to change their body because you really
realize in a super tactile way that
change is possible because the mind is
so invisible that if you've never gone
through a body transformation it's i
think difficult for people to believe in
the depth of change that's possible
tell me a little bit about your
background did you start obviously i
know the punch line but did you start
big did you start small like how did you
get to the muscle mass we see i wrestled
98 pounds in high school the freshman
sophomore is 106 as a junior 115 106 is
a junior as a senior i weighed 115. oh
how tall were you i was almost six foot
i was reasonably close to that's like
yeah i'd only gained about another inch
or two my senior year i had a late
uh uh
on set puberty i was eating terrible i
was working at 7-eleven from the time i
was 12 years old and so my food choices
consisted of the hot dogs and the nachos
with the pump cheese and soda my
favorite and that's what i was having we
grew up in the same diet yeah
it didn't help me much for i think that
was probably the primary driver of the
delayed onset puberty was the fact that
i wasn't sleeping very well because i
was working a swing shift and getting up
in the morning going to school
probably put in you know until midnight
or so before i got home
and then eating like that so i didn't
have the foundation for my body even to
to grow
a lot of folks consider that to be just
a matter of
of timing of genetics but i think that
your body has to have the
the right substrate but if you're
a lean athlete that is trying to
continue continuously year-round cut
weight to meet a lighter weight class
such as in the case of wrestlers like we
mentioned in case of distance runners uh
even gymnast gymnasts ballerinas those
kinds of sport that put a high priority
on on weight loss
especially through puberty
the time at which you should be
accumulating the most bone mineral
density uh which is a finite time it's
not like you can you can continue to do
that it generally your bone mineral
density the the bulk of it is acquired
through your teen years dude childhood
freaks me out because it is so
there are mistakes that you can make
that are either impossible to unwind or
nearly impossible to underline whether
that's psychological which is what i
spend a lot of time thinking about or
physiological
that's pretty terrifying we were talking
before we started rolling camera about
the bifurcation between men and women is
there a bigger
do you have a bigger concern for either
sex in terms of puberty and weight loss
or is it sort of universal just be
careful
women tend to suffer from uh the
osteoporosis at a greater rate so to rob
them of calories is more likely to have
bone density issues it's not just
calcium like you said it's calories it's
protein and it's resistance training
that those
that those together
will optimize
the accumulation of bone minerals
because you need to put the bones under
stress in order to get that formation
and have protein as well and there's
some other micronutrients you know that
help with accumulation of bone mineral
density and there's a finite period
under which that is uh is the bone
marrow density is accumulated
and then it kind of just
deteriorates over time as you age and
and then the idea would be that you
would maintain it as long as possible
and if if you're starting with that kind
of foundation
uh particularly with let's say the
distance runners or the wrestlers
then you'll have less you've accumulated
less and so that
earlier in your adult years you'll you
may experience some problems associated
with osteoporosis
so i'm looking at you you weren't huge
in high school you've obviously not only
gotten massive but incredibly strong
known as the strongest bodybuilder
set insane records for physical strength
how much do you think though that one
when did you start lifting and how much
as kids should we be laying down like
the tendon strength the ligament
strength so that we can build the big
muscle or
because i didn't start lifting until i
was in my 20s and i do
worry sometimes that
as much as that has been beneficial
because now i can add muscle quite
quickly like if i'm really focused for
three weeks the difference in my
physique is crazy
whereas somebody who didn't spend their
20s lifting as much as i did they're
probably going to struggle more but do
you think that
i have done myself dirty by not starting
even younger i don't think so at all now
if you're going to compete in athletics
it's good to have a as a teenager in
high school and college
it's good to have a foundation
the foundation would be
mostly in
in the kind of coordination movements
say dips chin-ups
sprinting
it's not just weight training strength
is an important component speed is an
important component i think sprinting is
probably the single best exercise for
youth
the single best
more than i would believe squats and
this is coming from a power lifter who
thinks squats is the best
well because it's so dynamic to begin
with it also increases your nervous
system's ability uh
sports performance isn't just strength
it's speed strength
okay it's velocity
and
that's really what helps when you have
kids sprinting that helps them with
neural adaptation and recruitment and
coordination and every time you sprint
you got to remember that you got
rotation and anti-rotation going on in
your torso which is fantastic for your
core which is you know hundreds of
muscles that act like guidelines for a
tower that are intended to resist
movements not necessarily bend and flex
so you're building all of that
coordination
that the speed i think is is huge plus
running is very dynamic and again i
mentioned the the force production from
landing the decelerating force from
landing when sprinting if you look at
pounds per square inch is extraordinary
but the ankle at the knee so you're
you're putting the kind of stress
that is going to force them to adapt and
start to develop you know stronger
joints muscles obviously as i just think
it's a probably the single best movement
if you were going to pick one
and then other than that
you know coordination and balance
although some of that is suggested
probably you have acquired by the time
you're six or younger
it's like those little kids who do
skateboards and uh and snowboarding
tend to have such great balance as they
get older because it's something that's
harder and harder to train as you age
and some people suggest that once you
get past 10 12 years old you really
can't do much with your balance and
coordination really see that's what i'm
talking about like that that really
bothers me i don't like that answer stan
so much of this comes down to really
doing things when we're young
so all right as a parent as somebody
who's just absolutely radically
transformed your own physique and you
think about okay sprinting is the single
most important thing if we're only going
to do one thing but as you look at your
kids on balance
i know you believe in sleep hugely so
we'll set that aside for a second we'll
just assume that your kids are eating a
healthy diet what are the things like
that you think about
laying down the foundations so that
later they can really do something
extraordinary is it
focusing on hitting a certain level like
being able to bench press twice your
body weight by the time you're 18. like
are there any sort of things like that
that you think set people up for success
i don't think so
especially for young boys primarily
because until they have achieved puberty
and start to have an increase in
testosterone they're not going to get a
significant improvement in lean muscle
mass
they're going to have
you know certainly some growth but it's
not going to be as significant as it was
through puberty so i'm working on things
like coordination speed maybe just going
through those movements having them
learn the basics of a push-up of a
chin-up uh
of a squat you know there's your
push-pull legs right there and that's
and that's really what the foundation
would be the big thing is is the
consistency at that point and building
the habits uh because
you know as they get older generally
what happens is is they may be
uninterested
uh or not have the discipline or the
consistency that's needed to to be able
to progress because the progression
isn't about any one workout or a week or
a month even it's about consistently
doing this
year-round
the big piece uh
i think for for kids is to make it fun
and
i'm opposed to specializing at an early
age
meaning having to do one thing round you
can get some repetitive strain injuries
we see this in
gymnasts in particular with the you know
tendon surgeries and the carpal tunnels
we see it even in ten-year-old badminton
players who blow out lateral collateral
ligaments just from repetitive strain
from doing the same thing over and over
again
and so it continued to involve them year
round in sporting activities and now
they're staying active they're they're
continuing to get stronger more
coordinated
better habits better
conditioning you know it's another piece
of this uh this whole thing is is to
make sure that their their
cardiovascular fitness is is continually
supported throughout the year and so the
kids that participate in sports
year-round you can pick different sports
you know they can do gymnastics or track
or play soccer or football but there's
no off season per se because you keep
them involved in something
and that
will help them progress
i think also in
the ten thousand hour rule they talked
about at what age do kids get involved
with
more
time in sports and better coaching we
looked at that in terms of hockey
players born in january and february
seemed to bring up you know
consist of the bulk of your pro hockey
players in canada because explain that
because when i read that that made all
the sense in the world to me i think
it's utterly fascinating well
kids can't start playing hockey in
canada until they're six years old well
are they six years old are they six
years and 11 months old right
and chronological age and physiological
age is very different especially at that
age a kid that's six years 11 months
may be physiologically far ahead of a
kid that's just six years old and so
that kid's going to get recruited first
because he's bigger stronger faster than
the younger kid
and then that kid is going to be able to
play on the teams that have more ice
time
better coaches more practices than the
other kids and so what you find is is
then again as in the other examples that
compounds over time
just more hours better coaching better
facilities etc and so the time they're
10 11 12 years old they're way ahead of
the ones who were
you know playing part-time and so that's
bananas to me it's a year-round thing
and it doesn't have to be these balls to
the wall workouts but it's consistency
it's access to the coaches like you said
and then also there's the psychological
component of
i'm bigger i'm stronger because they
don't get it right they don't think
about oh wait yeah i guess i am 11
months older they just know i'm better
and then they start getting more
attention and that the confidence that
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and in fact i'll
what was it so for the gains that you've
had which are just utterly extraordinary
what made you so interested that you
kept pushing and what do you think has
been the key to your success other than
consistency let's take that off the
table yeah
well first and foremost i fell in love
with the sport of bodybuilding why i was
140 pound 18 year old freshman in
college
and i i really you know i picked up a
magazine and i'd always wanted to be
bigger stronger
and have a better physique it just you
saw it and you responded yeah my soccer
coach asked me to go lift weights that
summer because i was a little light for
the team i was undersized for a soccer
player for a collegiate soccer player
and i just fell in love with it i really
liked lifting i liked the way it made me
feel i like seeing the little gains more
than anything i like seeing the weight
progress we use that intentionally as
coaches with our clients if we can get
them in and find something measurable
that they can progress at in a very
rapid pace of time which happens mostly
from neurological adaptation as you know
somebody just begins to learn a deadlift
they'll get stronger out every single
week you deadlift them two three times a
week they get stronger every single
workout do they get stronger or do they
get better at the movement more
coordinated more skilled we call neural
adaptation they learn to recruit the
muscles and fire
that is how we lock people into the
passion of weightlifting is by showing
them progress
and we use that strategically
better than say a metcon you know
they're going to go in and do battle
ropes and jump around and breathe hard
which is not a terribly effective way to
do do you think that's because
psychologically we're wired to get
turned on by strength i i don't know
what it is but i see it like even in
crossfitters
who who either switch over or often on
the side will compete in power lifting
and it's something about that feeling so
powerful and the progression this this
week i did 200 pounds next week i did
210 next week i did 230. i'm going to
try 240 next time it never ends it's
coming from a powerlifter competed for
over 30 years you know what's next it
never ends whatever your total was or
whatever your lift was it's like
you're thinking about
can i get what headspace do you go into
when you're doing like a just a brutal
lift
you know i look at everything
[Music]
in terms of repeating the same
movements i do the exam exact thing that
i did in practice so for you it's
clinical you're not like in rage mode
i'm going to [ __ ] tear these weights
apart you're not imagining anything
there is some evidence that smiling as
opposed to frowning can actually have an
adverse impact on your strength output
and clenching your fists
there is some evidence to suggest that
that those kinds of behaviors are making
a loud noise i thought for sure you were
going to say the opposite and i was like
oh my god that's so contrary to how it
feels to me but i've never hyped myself
up for real particularly what yeah i
just i've always been
ocd my whole life adhd as a kid
and so i
i used to count my steps and have ticks
and uh you know
every i did things repetitively my whole
life
and so when i got into bodybuilding
it was perfect for me
sets and reps and workouts and and
all these different blocks
the meals the timing of everything you
know eat every three hours prep your
meals go to the gym at the same time
you're doing you know everything's all
mapped out the reps time sets times
weight the progression so for you the
consistency is the super oh it was magic
for me because it preoccupied my
my ocd
behaviors it gave me an outlet to do
things repetitively that that i could
you know progress with over time i had
to channel rage
like for me in the beginning the only
way i could motivate myself to lift
because whatever the dopamine rushes
that people get from either exercise or
lifting i don't get it
but
to imagine somebody attacking my wife
and not being able to stop them was
insanely motivating and so my wife and i
would go lift at the same time and i
would literally just stare at her and
think about protecting her and having to
be strong enough to defend her
and of course i probably would have been
way better off putting all that time and
energy into learning jujitsu or
something like that but
it worked and so learning to
capture anger to foment it to channel it
um and then to your point about progress
a hundred percent like when you see
yourself getting stronger like it's
really cool there's something super
addictive and this feels
very sad saying to you but
at my height i was dead lifting 385
pounds
i remember thinking i can bend over and
pick up almost 400 pounds like that's
crazy like that felt so cool and so for
me dead lifting was like the most fun
thing i ever did
and that sense of being strong is
really cool yeah you said something
interesting or you talked about
channeling that same kind of behavior
into business
and i've said before when people ask me
about my success in business i've said
that
anybody who has been very successful in
say bodybuilding or powerlifting or some
sport with the
the discipline the consistency and the
time management that's involved in that
if they applied that same amount of time
and effort and consistency and time
management into any income producing
venture and would repeat those behaviors
over and over and over again you know
discard the things that didn't work
double down on the things that did and
do it over you know an extended period
of time would have
a similar level of success i said they'd
be a millionaire in five years if they
could do that like when i look at
schwarzenegger and what he accomplished
and you hear him talk about exactly what
you're saying like well this is exactly
what i was doing in the gym and that was
the thing that made me good and you
understand you can change and that you
have to be insanely consistent and work
way harder than you ever think you're
gonna have to and then you watch him
channel that into a gazillion areas and
it's like why aren't more people doing
that i think it's the goal i think it's
harder to see you know if you say my
goal is i want to make a million dollars
it's not specific enough it's hard to
break that down uh
there are setbacks obviously it always
takes longer and costs more than you
ever anticipate that it will i mean you
can make an excel spreadsheet say
anything and they'd be like oh this is
awesome
uh
the goals in bodybuilding and
powerlifting etc are shorter term i'm
going to compete in this event three
months from now
very
measurable easy to break that down go to
the gym creates a sense of urgency
because you told everybody you're going
to compete and you're certain numbers
that you want to achieve
and then as soon as you do that there's
you set another one
and so i'm not sure that people
identify a specific enough goal and then
break down the steps to get to that goal
that are in achievable chunks because
people are looking at the finish line
instead of the journey and i think that
is probably what impairs people's
ability to to
to progress in business
that and obviously there's a lot of
unknowns there it's pretty
we pretty well know
uh now in bodybuilding powerlifting what
you know is required to progress
and your progression is is only going to
really be limited by your genetic
predisposition
um
not
you know by doing things wrong
because it's it's a pretty simple
pattern
get into a business
we'll come back to business which i'm
very intrigued by how much you've been
successful at both but what is that sort
of base set if somebody wants to
really get big and strong yeah what do
they have to do
well
i said that the caveat being as we know
now
i've always said if i knew then what i
know now in 1985 when i started
bodybuilding
we didn't have all the science we have
today i used to think because we didn't
have the internet back in 1985 i went to
the gym and the guy behind the counter
was jacked and he was getting ready for
a bodybuilding show and he was eating
tuna fish out of a can and some rice
cakes
so ding ding ding
you know let me take this one step back
i'm this 115 pound kid in as a senior in
high school and i go out to my uncle's
farm in pennsylvania uh that winter
and i was eating at 7 11 every day and
all of a sudden the neighbors got a a
dairy farm and i'm going down i'm
getting bottles of raw milk with cream
on the top like this that you have to
shake and they're making every single
day my uncle is making steak and my
grandma and my aunt is cooking bacon in
lard and i'm eating you know potatoes
and steak and bacon and eggs and raw
milk next thing you know i'm 140.
135 i put on like 20 pounds went through
puberty during that time frame because i
gave my body what it needed more sleep
it was winter time got dark we worked
in the fields on his farm during the day
and then at night i would sleep i would
sleep longer hours and more soundly than
ever before sleep in you know until i
woke up rather than on my alarm to get
up for school at 6 a.m
and i grew for the first time
significantly put on 20 pounds
so i get to college after eating steaks
and raw milk and eggs and potatoes every
day and i see these guys eating tuna
fish and rice cakes i switch to tuna
fish and rice cakes because this guy's a
bodybuilder and i want to be a
bodybuilder and then i get arnold
schwarzenegger's encyclopedia
bodybuilding and i start training two
hours a day seven days a week you know
every single exercise you can imagine
that's in that encyclopedia so i'm over
training and i'm under eating
i also thought that the stronger i got
the bigger i would get which now we have
plenty of evidence suggests that that's
also not the case
that the amount of weight you lift is
not nearly as important as a host of
other factors we call volume load sets
times reps times weight and then the
range of motion it's also a critical
component and so i had everything asked
backwards for about two years i went
from 140 pounds to 158 pounds in two
full years and i competed in my first
bodybuilding show at 158 pounds at six
feet tall that's not a big guy right you
know that's certainly not anywhere near
my goal of trying to become a pro
bodybuilder which at six foot i would
need to be 240 250
in order to accomplish that goal so i
was a long way off and i of course at
every turn had people laughing and
telling me that that was a ridiculous
goal
and so i spent you know the next 10
years uh gradually growing but
fortunately after that first show the
promoter was also a gym owner and a
competitor and he said look you need to
flip the script you need to train less
and eat more
so what we know now is that you
obviously need to be in a calorie
surplus you have to get a sufficient
amount of protein generally about a gram
of protein per pound of body weight
uh and the training's per body weight or
lean ideal lean muscle mass as
ideally goal weight or lean weight
particularly for you know people who are
significantly have a bmi over 30 that
would be sufficient in order to maintain
lean body mass when dieting et cetera
but if you're an athletic individual you
know if you're a high school athlete and
and you've got you know at least four
pack
shoot for a gram of protein per pound of
body weight just shoot for it uh
i think that that
you can go up to as high as say 1.2
and still see although it kind of
gradually tapers off
an improvement in in lean mass accretion
uh from what most of the research has
shown us uh more recently for about two
years i did two
grams per pound yeah of lean body mass
it was hateful
yeah it's all lean like chicken yeah oh
god it was so horrible it's hard uh dr
jose antonio from international society
sports nutrition has done a lot of
protein over feeding studies
and he the dropout rates for people
trying to eat two grams of protein per
pound of body weight is there's hardly
anybody who stays in the program and
they have to be down in protein shakes
you're so sick of eating yeah it's
unbelievable it's actually a strategy
that we utilize to help people with
weight loss
the more protein you want to eat eat all
you want eat all the chicken breast and
top sirloin steak and lean
meats that you want if you're hungry are
you hungry or are you bored or are you
stressed because if you have to sit down
and eat 40 grams of protein
are you still hungry yeah real fast yes
has a high thermic effect of food it has
a very
high satiety effect and so we push
protein first with weight loss for those
very reasons it's a strategy that we
utilize to help people with hunger and
primarily
also very beneficial for blood sugar
control as we were talking earlier to
your assistant
one of the primary things you do to try
and control blood sugars is get at least
30 percent of your daily intake with
protein
and then eat the protein first in the
meal it has a ameliorating effect on
postprandial glycemia which is the
elevation of blood sugars after a meal
and there's some other strategies and we
get too far off to the side with that
but
so we do have uh with respect to
hypertrophy a pretty good hypertrophy
just getting big muscles getting big
muscles we do know you need to be in a
calorie surplus you need to get
sufficient protein and then you need to
start going down this list of
evidence-based hypertrophy guidelines
that that we see in the research
you want to train everybody part twice a
week
you want to get about 10 to 20 sets per
body part per week that's kind of a
minimum effective volume and a maximal
recovery volume
you want to
generally train
in the
you can get just as big training heavy
at five reps
as you can training moderately at 10 to
12 reps as you can training with light
weight to 20 reps presuming
you take each set to within a rep or two
of failure
having said that and you don't buy into
like do you have to go all the way to
failure no you don't the research has
shown us that now too that
there's a stimulus to fatigue ratio and
if you go to failure you're going to
have more fatigue you might have a
little more stimulus but you'll have
more fatigue which might delay recovery
and that's going to affect total volume
and volume is a superior driver than
fatigue
than muscle damage and so what we find
in that 10 to 12 range i was saying that
that you can grow just as well in the
five rep 12 rep and 20 rep ranges
the fives are going to be a lot heavier
you're going to build up accumulate more
fatigue the 20s as well you'll
accumulate more fatigue
and so the bulk of your volume although
we like to get a variety the bulk of
your volume like in that mid-range 8 to
15 reps kind of the bulk of your 80
percent of your volume or so and then
throw in a heavy set of five once a week
and throw in a an am wrap at the end of
your workout with a set of twenty if
you'd like an amrap uh as many reps as
possible yeah i'm learning these things
too i thought that was a breakfast
burrito when somebody mentioned it years
ago we always just called it failure
but
it's nice to train in each of the rep
ranges to to hit some different muscle
fibers you slow twitch fast twitch fiber
so
but the bulk of your training in that
mid-range because it affords you the
opportunity to do more volume and then
recover at a at a faster rate
that covers intensity as well or effort
which is within a rep or to a failure
and then we get down into some you know
less important things such as maybe the
um
the rest periods we'd like to see those
between 90 seconds and three minutes
people who go in and do a set and 30
seconds later do another set
that's probably better for muscular
endurance not for hypertrophy so it's
kind of hard for some folks though that
are really active in the gym to wait two
minutes
for busy individuals and people that
like to move a little faster or get a
better cardiovascular benefit from the
workout now i start combining
antagonistic body parts i'll do a
back and a chest workout together i'll
have them do a dip rest one minute do a
chin up rest one minute and go back and
do the dip the reason being is because
then you've had at least two minutes
between the dip sets each subsequent set
on dips should be relatively close to
the number of reps you got the first set
because that shows that your muscles
have recovered to the point where you
can then stress them again and then the
limiting factor doesn't become your
cardiovascular fitness or your lactate
clearing capacity the limiting factor
becomes did your muscles get stressed
did they adequately recover to get
stressed again and so your your
repetitions you might be able to do 15
reps the first time 15 reps the second
and then 14 and then 12. that's
sufficient to stay within
uh the loading necessary to to give you
a good hypertrophy stimulus the speed of
the repetition is on this list
uh you don't want to go too fast on the
way down you want to have under control
but doing a 10 second negative doesn't
uh impart any better hypertrophy
benefits than doing a two to five second
negative or interesting so time under
load which is something this idea that
you hear a lot about and when you were
giving us the multiplier earlier i was i
may have filled in a gap but you didn't
actually say with with that you do want
to go slow on the negative but no
you want to go under control you want to
be under control on the negative but
they've looked at a two-second negative
and a 10-second negative isn't there's
no difference there's no difference it
doesn't there's no added benefit a lot
of time in the gym doing these real slow
negatives i know and there was a phase
there there's always been a lot of
phases i've been the business for over
30 years i've seen all of the fads and
phases i've tried them all
but now we have research that that is
pretty definitively shown us that
there's kind of an ideal range there in
terms of time of two to five seconds and
then uh on the negative one of the
reasons being is is that that eccentric
load causes more muscle damage but
you're also stronger on the eccentric
and that's another uh
you know fatigue ratio
issue uh stimulates a fatigue ratio
issue to where if you're doing a lot of
eccentric loading it's going to take you
longer to recover it's going to affect
your total volume for the week and the
volume is the primary driver mechanical
tension first and then the volume and
frequency after that
so there's some smaller things i think
the split is really not that important
whether you train your whole body monday
and whole body friday or whether you do
a
an upper body monday and a lower body
tuesday and then an upper body thursday
and lower body friday or you do a push
pull legs monday tuesday wednesday and
then repeat it or take a day off and
then repeat it it doesn't seem to matter
your body adapts to the stimulus
provided
if that stimulus doesn't increase over
time the body has no incentive to
continue to adapt
and get stronger or bigger
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guys take care and be legendary
all right so let's shift gears into
diet so
one of the core tenets of your diet that
i like a lot is that you're looking at
the idea of what's easy to digest gut
health is going to be hugely important
as i was saying when i was on the
seafood diet as uh we jokingly called it
if you see food eat it
just trying to get in that caloric
surplus at one point i was doing shots
of olive oil
just trying to get calories oh it was so
hateful i absolutely hated that face but
i put on a ton of muscle
and
if i had to do it over though i would do
it so differently yeah
what are the core tenets of the vertical
diet
why does it work so well
well the vertical diet is everything
that i want my clients to do
it's not just diet it's sleep
optimization it's hydration
obviously it's it's nutrition macros and
micros
it's
injury prevention and rehabilitation
it's blood testing it's blood pressure
control blood sugar control
so it's hypertrophy training as we just
discussed strength training so uh and
and cardiovascular training so it's
everything that i want them to do and so
if i want to talk just about nutrition
in the vertical diet
uh
again sleep and exercise being
inseparable from from from nutrition
the vertical diet
was intended to be more inclusive of
what historically i had seen as over
restrictive
because i come from the bodybuilding
figure physique bikini industry
and those folks they get a guru
and the guru tells them
don't eat red meat
don't eat dairy
don't eat fruit
don't eat the egg yolk
and don't salt your food
all the things i lead with now
because what i saw
in the guru diet industry and almost
anybody that
that goes to a dietitian
or a guru dieter to lose weight
particularly if you're getting ready for
competition they walk out of there with
the same diet plan it's egg whites
tilapia some chicken breast and a just a
ton of broccoli i remember it well and
maybe a dollop of peanut butter right
and and some avocado
and not that any of those foods are bad
foods this isn't a good food bad food
conversation but they pale in comparison
to the list that i just made
red meat
whole eggs fruit
dairy sodium those are the things your
body needs those are the things that are
going to kill me
yeah that's what people
have presumed
equating for calories and i'll jump into
that going to kill you
equating for calories and protein
where you put carbohydrates and fats
does not matter in terms of weight loss
in terms of glycemic control it doesn't
matter if you're in a calorie deficit
okay
and this was borne out in many
randomized controlled trials it doesn't
matter strictly from the position of you
are losing fat because it drives me
crazy when people talk about that what
you eat doesn't matter now maybe if
you're just talking about
like losing fat maybe yeah although even
that i think is questionable i'm going
to take you one more step that you're
going to hate too
we'll start here we'll start with and
this is the diet fits trial it was a
year long out of stanford had over 600
people and even gary taubes was was part
of the uh the promoters of the of the
study itself and uh because obviously
he's a
keto uh
researcher
if you control for calories and protein
where you move carbs and fats don't seem
to matter for weight loss
and you get similar weight loss outcomes
so
the best diet's the one you'll follow
there's many paths to the same
destination it's all a matter of
personal preference at that point and
personal preference can include how you
respond to carbohydrates or fats and i
have clients that do both so i don't
respond well to these carbohydrates very
well what does respondwell mean meaning
maybe you have adverse
glycemic responses to a certain type or
quantity of carbohydrate or maybe
you're when your fats go up you have
difficult with bile and
soft stool
so you may not be able to metabolize one
or the other as efficiently it may be
more comfortable for you
and so i'm
when i talk about the vertical diet i
make some very specific recommendations
in terms of the macronutrients because
that's what my customers your macro
breakdown is maybe the most startling
and i love it by the way yeah uh maybe
the most startling thing in the book
it's two things yeah
red meat
white rice
yeah that's it yeah that's what and i
was like
well that's amazing that's what that's
what folks presume to think because
that's the most obvious it's right on
the front page of the book red meat and
white rice
we can get there
i'm going to go one step further first
in terms of of you talked about
calories or or
fats and carbohydrates
all diets work when they're strictly
adhered to
okay six out of seven people if you're
in a caloric deficit if you're in a
caloric deficit and they all work the
same way there's no all you can eat diet
whether you're keto whether you're in
fasting whether you're paleo whether
you're vertical they all work for the
same reason you're in a calorie deficit
in order to lose weight you have to be
in a calorie deficit
all diets work when they're strictly
adhered to six out of seven people who
go on a diet lose weight
it's pretty simple it's not easy
people don't adhere long term to
diets about 90 plus percent of people
gain the weight back within three years
having said all of that if you're
overweight significantly overweight
obese probably a bmi exceeding 30-35
95 of the health benefits that you'll
realize
are strictly from the weight loss itself
irrespective of the diet
so i'm going to say and the studies have
been done
the mcdonald's diet
a guy went ate at mcdonald's had his
students track everything
850 calories a day they measured
everything that he ate but everything
ate was off the mcdonald's menu big macs
french fries
ice cream whatever fit you know
presuming he got sufficient protein and
he walked for 40 minutes a day and if he
lost 30 pounds
his blood pressure improved his blood
sugars improved his cholesterol improved
all of those things improved simply from
the weight loss itself
the twinkie diet also got the same push
on that for a second and ask a question
do we know what his diet was like before
that
i would presume standard american diet
if he's because he's 30 40 pounds
overweight right yeah so standard
american diet for anybody keeping score
is going to be high in carbohydrates
which means it's high in sugar because
my real question is and this is where
and i
i think i'm right but i'm super open to
being wrong i just want to put that out
there because one thing i know
like what i believe 10 years ago i do
not believe now so i can only imagine
what i would believe 10 years from now
but
if he were putting on fat by overeating
red meat let's say
that his blood sugar because you can put
on fat absolutely by overeating red meat
yeah
i wouldn't expect in fact i would be
startled if his blood sugar went down if
he were eating 1850 calories of ice
cream
so
my
hypothesis and i haven't tested it so i
don't know but my hypothesis is even
though i would expect him to lose fat
that the blood sugar would go up so my
gut instinct is that his blood sugar
wasn't coming down because of the
caloric deficit his blood sugar was
coming down because he had even more
forms of sugar which we don't think of
as sugar could be potatoes it could be
white rice it could be god only knows
but all things that turn into glucose in
your bloodstream
or show up in your bloodstream as
glucose is a better way to say it
that
that is what's causing the drop in
glucose
and then the caloric deficit is what's
causing the loss of fat does that ring
true to you or do you think i'm missing
something
a few things there one pretty rare that
somebody who's eating
you know that much protein when you say
red meat that much protein
is has a bmi of 35. no i agree it's
pretty rare so the standard american
diet usually applies to the seventy
percent of the population that's
overweight or obese that's consuming
about that's why i'm saying that i think
that his drop in blood sugar would have
more to do with he was already eating a
terrible diet yeah and now he's eating
another variation of a terrible diet
just with more calories which would also
mean fewer carbs right
i would say this as well that when
people get a bmi over 35 generally
speaking they have some degree of fatty
liver which compromises
your insulin
sensitivity losing seven percent of your
body weight
if you're 300 pounds you've got to lose
20 pounds
we'll resolve 95 percent of fatty liver
as tested by biopsy
irrespective of how you lost the weight
and so you become a little more
efficient at metabolizing carbohydrates
simply from the weight loss itself and
the fact that the liver doesn't have
the the fatty liver strain on it
stopping as well because that elevates
triglycerides you know they convert
blood sugar to triglycerides lipids
start increasing
so
there's some nuance there but i i would
want to suggest and i'll you know as i
progress through this i'll come back and
say that that
this applied to the twinkie diet it
applied to the 7-eleven diet it applied
to the you know a whole host of terrible
diets which when
uh consumed in a deficit and associated
with weight loss uh people realized an
improvement in their metabolic markers
their blood tests
having said that
i would never recommend that kind of
diet for a few reasons one because a 30
or 60 day trial tells us nothing about
long term in terms of micronutrients
deficiencies i kind of
glossed over that when i was talking
about the guru diet with the egg whites
and the broccoli and the tilapia as
compared to whole eggs steak and fruit
one of the things that happens over time
is that those people in those
restrictive diets start experiencing the
deficiencies associated with just eating
egg whites you're not getting the biotin
and the avid and the egg whites robs the
biotin from your body well that's for
skin hair and nails then being in a
deficit you're going to suppress your
thyroid function next you know that dry
skin and dry hair starts falling out
that gives us back to the metabolic
syndrome when you're just eating egg
whites and tilapia where's your iron
especially for women and now they suffer
from anemia so we start seeing all of
these things manifest over time they can
get to the show and compete and they got
lean
but within a week after the show they're
at the doctor's office getting
injections for for iron and d3 and
sometimes antidepressants and sometimes
it's this huge rebound of 20 pounds of
weight this is all micronutrient
problems it's all
the deficiency in the diet it's it's
these
it's the too much of a deficit
and over restrictions efficiency though
in what
calories
and micronutrients
like i mentioned in terms of the iron
deficiency the biotin deficiency the you
know the cause of the usually iodine
deficiency the hypothyroidism the water
imbalance from not getting adequate
sodium and potassium and then they end
up with edema following the show
i mean
really serious like painful like i have
to go to the doctor the ankle swollen
kind of this is what i was seeing in the
late 80s i started training women for
competition back in the late 80s and
early 90s and i was seeing this quite
regularly that they would just torture
themselves to get ready for a show and
then have this enormous rebound they
would gain 20 pounds within a week or
two unintentionally unintentionally
obviously you know they'd have that
rebound eating
but your body gains the fat back much
faster than the muscle it's a problem
with this
with this yo-yo dieting is that you lose
a lot of muscle
with the fat if it's done incorrectly if
it's not done gradually enough without
adequate sleep and resistance training
and protein and then when you
binge
in you know to recover from this this
cravings from the dieting you gain a
significant amount of fat back
and so your body composition changes
over the years that's what gets us that
metabolic adaptation that we saw in the
biggest loser studies to show that their
basal metabolic rates had been
significantly suppressed by somewhere
between 300 and 700 calories a day even
after they gained the weight back they
had a lower bmr
so that i see the same kind of thing
with when i talk about like the
mcdonald's diet and that kind of thing
is i would not recommend that because it
can manifest in in micronutrient
deficiencies long term
and i i've over the years discovered hey
there's a better way to do this and
that's kind of why i speak out against
these
guru diets
for both men and women i want to go back
to
specifically the vertical diet so in the
book you say that the macronutrients are
red meat and white rice then under that
you get into micronutrients and you've
got a whole [ __ ] host
of let's define macronutrients proteins
fats and carbs and then we'll attach
foods to those afterwards
my
macronutrient percentages are 30 protein
as a percentage of total calories in the
diet that's what i recommend so i've
been recommending for for a decade
probably what i've been eating for 30
years and but most of the bodybuilding
figure physique bikini industry probably
accepts to be
uh
most beneficial for performance and lean
mass retention and growth
about a gram of protein per pound of
body weight or
you know lean weight or goal weight if
you're significantly uh heavy
uh 30 protein
and that's been studied extensively as
well we've seen even in a recent study
comparing the mediterranean diet which
is louder as the healthiest diet right
the mediterranean diet only has 18 to 20
percent protein so they put the
mediterranean diet next to a 30 protein
diet the 30 protein diet outperformed
the mediterranean diet for glycemic
control and glycemic control is the most
important factor because it it's the
most predictive of of long-term disease
hyperinsulinemia
type 2 diabetes
far above even blood pressure obesity
and lipids way down at the bottom
uh so
when you're trying to make the most
significant comparison you want to look
at blood sugars first and it's a you
know obviously hugely important and we
keep going back to that that is kind of
it's kind of what precipitates
everything else the fatty liver and all
the other metabolic syndromes the high
blood pressure it's all
the foundation of it is is
hyperinsulinemias high blood sugars
um
so
i start with 30 protein and very
effective for controlling blood sugars
and retaining lean body mass and then i
about 30 fats in the diet and i may make
some adjustment on those based on
you know the individual's personal
preference but you need fat obviously
you need cholesterol you know every
membrane cell in the body is it has a
lipid bilayer and you need the ad and k
need to be able to move nutrients
through the body fat's important you
can't eliminate fat it'll affect your
hormones oh i've tried it yes misery
it's terrible pain
yes sucked so we need fats in the diet
uh and then i put in 40 carbs
there's a does that only work when
you're lifting
or is would you if somebody weren't
going to lift
would you still recommend 30 30 40 i
would bring the carbs down if they were
inactive but
again just like sleep is as important as
diet is exercise and exercise not so
much in terms of burning calories for
weight loss but exercise in terms of
cardiovascular health and long-term
weight loss maintenance
which
is is important both in the step count
throughout the day in terms of
suppressing appetite and
doing some sort of resistance work
the the muscle is is the most important
organ in the body the largest organelle
people think it's the skin but it's the
muscle it's the largest organ in the
body it's a single in your body
yeah
it's a sink for glucose that's what the
muscle is so effective at particularly
when you're moving it and working it
i mentioned that
post meal
if you move your muscles take a ten
minute walk ride a recumbent bike you
know something like that
you'll uptake glucose from the
bloodstream without the need of insulin
and you can reduce
your postprandial glycemia by up to 30
just with a 10 minute walk post meal
that's twice as effective as metformin
the number one prescribed type 2
diabetes medication
taking a 10-minute walk after each meal
is twice as effective as metformin for
reversing or preventing type 2 diabetes
just from moving the muscles and getting
your
your body to do what it's supposed to do
your muscles to take up glucose from the
bloodstream without the need of insulin
so
i will bring carbs down if people aren't
training but i'm lifting weights to me i
come right out of the gate with that
it's the first thing i prescribe along
with ten minute walks is the two things
above cardio
as a priority over cardio uh to me ten
minute walks are cardio uh you do them
briskly you can elevate your heart rate
significantly enough to where it'll
provide you some
improvement in vo2 max sufficient to
give you a you know a longevity benefit
so i think that that's sufficient if
you're not competing in something but
three ten minute walks a day following
meals and then some weight lifting
two to three times a week would be to me
a minimum prescription if you're really
serious about trying to uh to improve
your general health and body composition
and
long-term weight loss maintenance and
your energy levels
and so i like to keep the carbs in there
primarily for performance
like you said and it might be that you
eat a few more carbs around workouts in
the day that you train and a few less on
the days that you don't train if that's
what you prefer if your energy levels
yeah take me back so
i the vertical diet
really lines up with how i accidentally
eat yeah so
minus the i don't eat a lot of rice
um
but i eat a
metric [ __ ] of red meat yeah that's like
my primary source of calories
eggs i eat a lot of eggs whole eggs
um and then i eat
vegetables but i don't like go way out
of my way i probably get 85
80 for sure percent of my calories from
meat and eggs yeah
why isn't it gonna kill me and salmon a
couple times a week i don't [ __ ] with
salmon yeah but any fatty fish sardines
um yeah just thinking you can make it
through sometimes yeah but i
don't go out of my way for it yeah so
i'm super curious i know you do
i'm super curious to know if you think
like that's a big part of your strategy
and that's a real missing part of my
game small item it's omega-3s you can
probably get a sufficient amount from
two five ounce servings a week
salmon has 200 times the omega-3s as as
beef as riveted animals i choose beef
ruminant animals bison
cow beef
sheep
deer i choose beef
because it's a ruminous animal it has a
four-chambered
stomach digestive system it can ferment
cellulose pre-digests
provides you with
a better omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acid
ratio than say a monogastric like a
chicken or a turkey
three times as much iron i think six
times as much b12 nine times as much
zinc carnosine creatine selenium it's
just a more nutrient dense and i
personally don't eat chicken i don't
enjoy it uh i don't think it's
it's kind of a good better best scenario
where i think that beef is i get more
bang for my buck it's more highly
bioavailable and has a lot more nutrient
density
um
and so i prefer to eat
steak but i eat a leaner steak
i am somewhat cautious and again this
depends is that just for calories are
you worried about saturated fat like
what's the concern i'm cautious about
saturated fat
because
i uh have him historically when i've
been overweight because i've bulked up
to over 300 pounds many times throughout
my career as part of this power lifting
bodybuilding nothing in the dirty
bulking et cetera
and i had some elevated ldls
triglyceride hdls were always great
great ratio
you know everything else looked really
good
but my ldls would be elevated and one of
the
you know primary drivers of ldl is
saturated fat
and so i tend to control especially now
being 54 years old i tend to control you
look [ __ ] amazing by the way thank
you you look amazing for a lot of ages
but 54 especially thank you and my goal
now really because i don't compete
anymore and haven't since i was 45 is
really
it's just long-term health maintenance
i just lift you know because i really
love it and i enjoy it but i'm focused
mostly on
my nutrition my sleep
my cardiovascular fitness you know all
the all the indicators my my blood
sugars my blood pressure my lipids i
focus on these things i've had over a
hundred blood tests
most of them throughout the last 10
years of my uh competitive career from
2006 to 2015 and then about every other
month or every third month since
so i've you know i'm kind of a
hypochondriac that way
and
i have a lot of clients who are around
my age who aren't as healthy and their
blood tests uh you know
show that and so i i try and help them
with a broad
you know foundational program like we
talk about the vertical diet and improve
their sleep get a cpap where necessary
if they've got high blood pressure and
they've got sleep apnea
and then go to work with the high blood
pressure and high blood sugar quick fix
kits that i provide in the book to show
them i kind of put things i'm a big
lists guy and i like to put things in a
hierarchy of most importance you have
two quick fixes that i think are really
powerful and i think it would be helpful
if you break them down for people so
you've got a blood pressure
quick fix and you've got a glucose blood
glucose sugar quick fix kit walk people
what are the
show us the diet through the lens of
those two things yeah high blood
pressure quick fix kit
probably the most
just as an aside a lot of people
think that because i've talked about how
i like to make sure i keep sodium in the
diet a lot of people think that sodium
is a major contributor to cardiovascular
disease or high blood pressure and it's
not it's very small and only for
hypertensives it's a small portion of
the population maybe 25 of the
population
is hypertensive salt sensitive and
generally those people are overweight to
begin with and that's why they have you
know a poor reaction
but reducing salt in those people even
down
to
you know really small amounts uh uh
like 2 500 milligrams a day only results
in two to five millimeters of systolic
blood pressure decrease it's not
significant it's not
uh
it's not nothing but it's not
significant
starting at the very top losing weight
you get about a a millimeter of systolic
blood pressure decrease for every pound
that you lose you lose 20 pounds you can
drop 20 points on your systolic blood
pressure you go from 150 to 130. wow
just like that you eliminate salt you
might go from 150 to 147. so
not that that salt shouldn't be
considered for hypertensive and salt
sent as individuals but i'm just trying
to make the comparison
um
the next big one on there
is hypothyroidism
can have a significant impact on on
blood pressure underactive thyroid yeah
an underactive thyroid
especially in women can be up to a 20
point difference between normal thyroid
and hypothyroidism between women in
terms of blood pressure
sleep apnea is a monster for high blood
pressure uh i i cannot believe sometimes
i'll get people to contact me they went
to their doctor and the doctor gave them
blood pressure medications and
understandably so they're under
obligation to do so you walk in there
with high blood pressure and they don't
prescribe you medicine and you drop in
the street and
you know they're going to get a lawsuit
but without mentioning do you have sleep
apnea in is it the lack of sleep or is
it something about the constantly waking
up a combination of both holding your
breath
uh has an effect on it uh the
inflammation from that
but it's something that's that's fixable
immediately with a cpap it's like a 99
fix to get a cpap i deal with this with
a lot of my clients myself i've used a
cpap off and on since 1993. ever since i
got over 240 people say do you need it
because of all the muscle mass
it's neck girth
fat or muscle
if you get above say 17 inches for a
male you're generally going to start to
experience some degree of apnea uh
there's a stop bang questionnaire that i
i have in the book that goes through and
talks to you about you know your neck
size snoring
uh
waking up tired
did your partner observe you holding
your breath uh those kinds of things and
getting a cpap is a resolution for that
has a significant effect maybe up to 20
points on your systolic blood pressure
is significant take bricks 10 minute
walks after meals that helps with
postprandial glycemia and
insulin seems to be a driver of blood
pressure hyperinsulinemia
uh resistance training is huge it
it helps with uh it releases nitric
oxide which of course vasodilates and it
also helps with uh
the blood vessels uh elasticity so
lifting weights has a significant impact
on that um
and then we're down to things like
consuming sufficient amounts of
potassium and calcium and magnesium and
it's hard to do and most people don't do
it you want to get over 4 000 milligrams
probably closer to 4 500 milligrams of
potassium and i have a whole list in the
book that shows you kind of how to do
that that's why i eat a potato every day
and i recommend it as part of the
foundation of the of the vertical diet
is because i'm trying to get potassium
in first and the potatoes twice the
potassium as as say um a banana even wow
and so i'm trying to get that 4 700
milligrams of potassium in
and so
these are some some
key things i mentioned thyroid uh i
mentioned salt for salt sensitive people
vitamin d
avoiding diuretics and caffeine those
can although caffeine is an acute
uh has an acute effect not a chronic
effect on blood pressure might just be
something to consider how you respond to
it uh and then another one is uric acid
high uric acid can cause high blood
pressure and a lot of people think uric
acid is related to meat it it has a
bigger effect on uric acid with things
like um
this is the one
fructose is one the biggest one is beer
things that are high in rna and dna beer
sardines
uh can have a significant effect so in
your blood test get your uric acid
tested if that's elevated that's
something that you're going to want to
minimize
fructose but those studies run pure
fructose not fruit
fruit always has a fructose glucose
combination
glucose helps with the digestion of
fructose and the quantity with the fiber
in the water is so low that fruits
aren't going to have a significant
impact on uric acid beer will purines in
in the rna and dna and beer and sardines
is probably the primary driver the
second person to talk about that it's
really interesting never considered uric
acid at all until about two months ago
yeah very interesting yeah and it's
something that you look at with people
who have these
uh these conditions you know for high
blood high blood pressure
uh and i did mention here lower fructose
intake that is the high blood pressure
quick fix kit it's very similar to the
high blood sugar quick fix kit uh we
talked a little bit about blood sugars
these kind of go together because blood
sugar affects
hyperinsulinity affects blood pressure
and so we're back to losing weight we
talked about eating sufficient protein
30 percent protein in your diet has a
significant effect on ameliorating um
postprandial glycemia also eating
protein earlier in the day
the bigger protein meal that you have
for breakfast has an effect on
subsequent meals postprandial glycemia
seems to have an important effect and
then eating the protein first in the
meal
also interesting has a huge effect on on
your glycemia taking the 10 minute walks
after meals as we were mentioned
resistance training is important sleep
obviously is huge for blood sugars uh
insulin resistance occurs in less one
night of bad sleep and so that's a huge
one uh getting adequate vitamin d seems
to be important for blood sugars as well
but you know potassium magnesium iodine
i even threw eat carrots in here for a
source of fiber one of my favorite
sources of fiber because it's low gas
it's
a low fodmap
food which i talk about in the diet in
terms of digestibility i mentioned eggs
in here for choline choline helps
prevent and reverse fatty liver disease
and you get about 150 milligrams of
choline for each egg yolk uh you want
about a thousand milligrams a day that's
about six eggs your body can only absorb
about two or three hundred milligrams of
choline at any given meal and so i
spread them out
uh you know half and half or a third
third third but i get about six eggs a
day it would seem counterintuitive that
i get a 400 pound guy like half thor
bjornsson with metabolic syndrome and
fatty liver and high blood pressure and
i start feeding him more whole eggs
but it's for the choline primarily
is it just for the choline or is it that
a lot of the wrap that eggs have is
unwarranted a lot of the rap is
unwarranted and
people would used to assume
that the choline in your diet affected
the cholesterol in your diet affected
the cholesterol in your bloodstream and
it doesn't for the vast majority of
people there's a small percentage
population has hypercholesterolemia who
has to be cautious about how much
cholesterol they eat but more
importantly how much saturated fat
because that affects
cholesterol clearance which seems to be
a bigger
problem than the cholesterol that you're
consuming is that you're just not
clearing it
and that
it's partly because of fatty liver it's
partly because of inadequate bile
production because a lot of the
cholesterol is sequestered and uh and
eliminated with through the bile system
and so those are all things to consider
and that's when we start to maybe get
into supplementation start looking at
nac and acetyl cysteine which is a
precursor to glutathione that can help
the liver and also something like tudka
which i'm not going to try and tudka
t-u-d-c-a i'm not going to try and spell
that one out but it's a big long name
but tudka helps with inflammation in the
liver to allow the bile that's bound up
in the liver
to escape
so that that you don't have bile
formation so that's really interesting
about all the different ways that
inflammation ends up affecting somebody
that people don't necessarily think
about it's really interesting
or can people find out more about you
everything's at stan efforting my
website is stanford dot com my
instagram is at stan efforting my
youtube and i have some
rhinos rants on youtube where i've gone
through a lot of this it's kind of a fun
little thing where i talk about all
these topics is youtube's also stan
efforting and then i have uh the
vertical diet meal prep company is a
nationwide meal prep company where we
make low fodmap meals that are high in
protein and we deliver those nationwide
door-to-door and that's
at
theverticaldiet.com love it
guys his results speak for themselves
highly encourage you guys to check it
out and to try it out for yourself n of
one experimentation ultimately is all
that matters when it comes to diet so it
may work for other people may not for
you or something that other people think
is crazy uh may work perfectly for you
so definitely experiment on yourself and
find the things that give you the
results you want it is so important to
experiment with diet to take this stuff
seriously your health is everything uh
protect it experiment see what works
speaking of things at work if you
haven't already be sure to subscribe and
until next time my friends be legendary
take care peace