Kind: captions
Language: en
we find lower lid flexes super
attractive I don't mean like physically
attractive I mean we want people who
want to deeply listen to us that's why
when you look at really hot actors or
models or blue steel they're always
listen I always would have hard truth
over ignorant Bliss right if she's ready
for it I'd rather teach it to her I also
think like it allows you to choose if
you're going to respond you don't always
have to respond to a cue so for example
this is a cue this this study really
changed the way I think about cues it
and it was I talk about in the book a
little bit but it really had a major
impact in my life which is a study very
simply where if you see a queue of
social rejection okay so cues of social
you're being rejected so if you see or
decode a cue of social rejection on
someone else which is why we're very
aware of cues without realizing it so
cues of social rejection are eye rolls
scoffs even a social rejection tone of
voice like yeah I don't really like that
like we know that's a social rejection
tone of voice okay when we see IQ of
social rejection our own field of vision
widens
we literally see more our pupils change
when we spot in less than a second a
queue of social rejection
this is really helpful to know because
it means if you see a negative cue your
body knows you have to look out for more
you have to see and why do we take any
more we have to see is anyone else
sending a cue of social rejection is
everyone else okay do I have an Escape
Route what's my plan of action
so if your body is already doing this if
my daughter
at three and a half already is doing
that why not give her a name for what
that is so then she can decide I want to
address that social cue of rejection or
I'm good I don't need their approval
talk to me about addressing it
okay so let's I really like addressing
cues I like addressing them in the room
so one cue this is not a typical cue of
social rejection but I think it's an
important one to know is a lower lid
Flex if we're going to talk about the
weird cues let's just let's just go
right into the weird ones so lower lid
Flex so we're trying to see something
from far away so if for example of Steel
blue steel right give me Blue Steel
right it's like the heart and lower lid
if you're right now try to see something
across the room try to see the detail on
the wall you'll you'll Harden your lower
Lids to see it okay this is a universal
response when we want to see more we
widen our eyes and if you're a surprise
we're trying to see detail or scrutinize
something we Harden our lower lid it
lowers the amount of light that can come
into our eye so we can see more detail
this is not a typical Pew of social
rejection however if you're talking to
someone and all of a sudden they lower
lid Flex you I do it all the time right
it means that someone just went into
deep listening mode correct at least
that's how I intend it that is it's
literally when you said intense way at
the beginning of the interview I thought
that explains Tom's lower lid Flex
because that's what you do in your
interviews you'll nod which is high
warmth oh my God I not too much though
no you don't not too much we probably
cut some of it out oh okay sometimes I
do feel like a bobble head which you
yeah mentioned don't be a bobble head
okay so nodding is a warmth cue you
typically I don't even know if you
realize you do this you will balance out
your knotting with a competence cue with
it which is a lid Flex so when you
certainly don't do it on purpose but
right but that is your intensity so like
right you're deeply listening to me what
is she saying what was that what was
that study and I can see you are deeply
listening and then you'll balance it out
with a warmth cue that is how very
highly charismatic people and I would
put you in that bucket whether you would
or not generous I would put you in that
bucket of Highly charismatic people is
you are naturally balancing out that
warmth and competence we find lower lid
flexes super attractive and I don't mean
like physically attractive I mean we
want people who want to deeply listen to
us and so that's why when you look at
really hot actors or models or blue
steel they're always
smizing or lower lid flexing or flinty
eyes because it shows intensity and we
like people who are intensely into us so
the reason I bring this up is a social
rejection cue is because it can show
scrutiny
it can show that someone is reevaluating
or judging what you're going to say and
so when you're talking to a group of
people or one person and all of a sudden
they're lower lid flexing and you're on
something positive great but if you're
making a point or you're challenging
something addressing it would sound like
does that make sense
all good
any questions right there
when I'm teaching so you wouldn't like
call it out specifically like yeah yeah
exactly no that's the kind of thing I
would do for sure I mean listen if you
read this as a team you want to do it I
have teams that do that cool but I like
like the just like the soft like are we
good
does that make sense all good yeah I
like it's a verbal it also can be a
non-verbal so um what do you do though
if you see the and you talk in the book
like you want a cluster so let's say
you're seeing a cluster of responses any
one thing in isolation could be
meaningless yes but you see that cluster
they're really giving you cues you say
we good any questions there and they're
like yeah we're good but you know
there's something going on okay so I
usually will follow up with some kind of
confirmation depending on how hard it is
so all good yeah we're all good I'm like
okay mental note that there was
something that was going on there so I
will typically this is like advanced
level but if something is really like I
I know I saw that cluster I know I saw a
couple red flags in a row that I don't
like and this matters I will typically
change the mode of communication so if
we were in person I will ask an email
just confirming
you're all good on point point if we
were in email and I noticed some
suspicious verbal things I will switch
to in person if we're on video I'll try
to switch to phone because I find that
if you give someone a minute and you try
a different mode of communication
usually you can get a little bit more
information so when it really matters to
me I will ask in a different way in a
different mode it's interesting what do
you think about my technique which is I
won't say that I do it every time
because I do try to be deaf I try to
read the room and you know what my
relationship is with the person but I am
very likely to say
you know something like you know are we
all good yeah yeah we're fine you made a
facial expression helped me understand
because it definitely read like you're
upset or whatever and I just want to
make sure that you know whatever love it
so that works you can also say you're
saying all good but you don't look like
it's all good
and that's something you can also do
with your partner right like if they're
like I'm fine yeah no that would it
doesn't sound fine I want it to be fine
it doesn't sound fine so yes I think
that you can you can also verbally vary
and that's like not an aggressive way of
doing it like are you sure you're good
you don't look good
and then they can explain oh yeah no I'm
just nervous about something else or you
know what you're right I do have some
hesitations or no no I really am good
all right like I I like that if you're
brave enough to do it that's the social
assertive way to do it I like it I like
it with your partner do you have like a
code word so like Lisa and I if I can
see on her face yeah there's something
wrong yeah and I use this very sparingly
because I actually want Lisa to be able
to take an exit ramp if she doesn't want
to talk about it or whatever but I'll if
I really need to know I'll be like you
promise you're okay yeah now
in our marriage if somebody says do you
promise that whatever is about to come
out of your mouth better be the truth no
matter like how brutal it is do you have
anything like that so um yes we have a
physical one that we do where tell me
more so like if I think he's like not
good or not telling me something I'll
take his face in my hands like this and
I'll be like are you sure babe so like
it's like a deep it's like a touch it's
like a very intimate touch and I'll like
are you sure and so for me he'll often
like touch my shoulder or touch my arm
or my lower back are you sure that like
anchor touch did you guys discuss that
like would he be surprised hearing you
say this now I think he would be a
little bit no no I think he would be oh
yeah we do do that we haven't discussed
it interesting but like when it's like
it's like are you it's like it it's like
close the outside world around are we
good
that were like are you our babe are you
sure that's that's like a physical touch
thing he's also a physical touch love
language okay so I think that that's
where it came from as we discussed that
we were that he was physical touch it's
interesting it going back to warmth and
high fives and stuff you talk about in
the book even like on a zoom call saying
like hey I'm sending you a high five and
that even things like that can cue
people into feeling something yes so
this was a hypothesis I had right at the
beginning of the pandemic we're all
going on video and I'm I I missed the
the social tradition of a high fiber a
handshake and I wondered do we need to
replace it do we even need to and can we
and so I partnered with Dr Paul Zach who
runs immersion Neuroscience he's like
the oxytocin guy whenever we talk about
oxytocin we're actually piggybacking on
his original research he's absolutely
brilliant he's like he wrote the moral
molecule have you ever taken exogenous
oxytocin even knows yeah never but I
really want to have you done it I have
but mixed with ketamine oh I've never
and I didn't like the ketamine I'd like
to try just the nasal spray yeah I got
so hyped about it let's go do it babe
like we're gonna do it together it's
gonna be amazing she's like no I don't
want anything artificial I'm like
oxytocin is very I mean it's very close
to our chemicals you know his lab is
like really close we could all go do it
dude I would do a nasal spray of
oxytocin all day any day this is by the
way Dr Zak is the guy who did the
vampire wedding the vampire the vampire
wedding they got married as vampires
no he talks he calls it a vampire
wedding he's the one who he went to a
wedding I don't know how Dr Zach is
super charismatic and so I he can
convince anyone of anything he's
probably giving us all oxytocin
it's a good strategy so here's what he
did he convinced a wedding to go to the
wedding and take everyone's blood at the
wedding whoa I know so he took the
bride's blood the groom's bread everyone
in the wedding he took their their blood
and what he found was is that you could
predict how close people were to the
bride based on how much oxytocin was in
their blood whoa right so that's cool
it's super cool so the more people felt
bonded to the bride the closer they were
the more oxytocin they had in their
blood I believe there was one exception
and forgiving this one I think it was
the Mother-in-law was even higher than
the groom I think it was something funny
like that the Mother-in-law was so
oxytocin filled for her daughter wow so
you're not the Mother-in-law the mother
of the bride was was even higher than
the groom because she was like so happy
with her with her daughter I have to
check that one really interesting yes so
oxytocin is is real and it's very
nuanced so I feel like a nose shot of
oxytocin would make us do all kinds of
interesting it would like open our brain
up in a connection kind of a way it's a
fascinating molecule that has huge
implications in trust yes which is
the when I first started reading about
it I was like oh this is really
interesting like if you have a group and
you need to develop more trust it could
be a really interesting way it could
also though potentially get you into
trouble if it's creating trust with
somebody that you shouldn't trust oh
that is how con men work I will tell you
my biggest concern with this book is it
will get into the wrong hands
like a question that I get that
is the is the question which is like
what's the difference between this and
manipulation and I think there is a
terrifying line for me and it was
something that caused me some writer's
block I'll be honest while I was writing
where I am so terrified that these cues
will be used for evil not good
and they can be and they are I mean
that's how con men work and that is one
of the reasons that what I what I can
convince myself of is I would rather
equip people to know these cues you said
that woman was touching you and you knew
she was touching you and it was working
I would rather you'd be aware of the
cues that are being sent to you to know
I want this or I don't because they are
that powerful
that if someone has bad intentions they
can still produce trust and that makes
me nervous
yeah I don't think you will ever be able
to control stuff like this but it would
be a bit like I'm not going to teach
mixed martial arts because the person
might use it to beat somebody up that's
true so it's like I'd rather have the
people that can use it to either like
you have done overcome awkwardness and
use it I mean even the book reads very
much like a manual for somebody who
wants to improve their life take it to
the next level I think the subheadler on
the back of the book it says like uh if
you're tired of being um overlooked
underestimated or interrupted yeah and
underestimated that was the one that
really hit me was giving people the
tools in fact the we've already talked
about this but the um
being able to give people subtle cues
that you want to interject yeah and a
lot of people I think end up getting
steamrolled and they get angry at the
other person instead of going I'm going
to take control here to your point yes
um and be able to Signal people and you
give this progression of well you can
start subtle you can do the fish
whatever but then you know we get to the
point where it's like yo stop but being
able to
um give people the tools so that they
can be better equipped to do this stuff
and then I definitely like in
relationships it is so easy to be inside
your own head to have a paranoia about
like I want to make sure that I'm
following this or that I'm coming across
well or whatever that you actually stop
reading the cues and then you can get
blindsided I think about this a lot as
an employer it's like you're constantly
trying to make sure that everybody's
okay and that you actually know what's
going on inside people's lives and when
somebody will end up hitting a breaking
point that you didn't see coming it's
like ah did I ignore something
and so yeah reading nonverbal cues I
think is about as close to a superpowers
you're gonna get and all
I'll talk about non-verbal we talked a
little about verbal but I also think
that we hear tension you know I think
that's something that we as an
underestimated q that we don't talk
about enough but our voice gives away a
lot of our personality and our mental
state it's the other thing that like
trust your gut on what you're hearing so
talk about the gut yes okay so I think
that we know this instinctively but if
we're not listening for it we ignore it
and that is I've so been in that place
you just mentioned where you're like did
I miss something like is someone burnt
out and I didn't even see these cues
coming and so if you're listening to
your gut and your intuition more and you
know what you're hearing I think you're
like ah I just heard that how does the
gut work in your mind so I think that we
have this amazing muscle right this
amazing whatever you want to call the
brain this amazing piece of anatomy that
is constantly reading all these
thousands of cues that are being sent to
us and it gives us a spidey sense like
it gives us an intuitive hit of like
something is off
and we tend to think we go into
productivity mode do we meet the
deadline do we get it done was she late
was she on time she's been slow to
respond to that email right like when I
get that sweaty sense I typically go I
used to go to task
right like is there something off in the
in performance or behavior in task I
actually want you to go the other way I
want you to go to communication I want
you to be like does she sound okay and
let's talk about what does it mean to
sound okay so what research has found is
that we hold a lot of tension in our
vocal cords right so when we don't take
up a lot of space like for example if I
were to do this interview with my
shoulders rolled in and my chin down you
already hear a kind of tightness in my
voice and so when someone's on a video
call or on a phone call and they're like
yeah so I'm just going to give over my
weekly updates and and you can hear that
tension because it sounds different than
when there's space
when you're listening for tension I
think that it can give away that fatigue
that's coming that smallness that
someone is literally playing small so
you're listening for one is smallness so
as I take up less space I begin to
create less volume you're also looking
for vocal fry so vocal fry I don't think
we don't talk about enough do you have
you talked about a dress vocal fry on
the show no only I I never had a name
for it until I read this book and I
realized that I actually have somebody
here at impact theory that has vocal fry
and I was like every time I hear it I'm
like it seems like she's anxious
and when you describe it I was like aha
okay so vocal fry is when it sounds
gross but when our vocal cords rattle
together because there isn't enough air
that is coming through them so right now
I'm working really hard to give enough
air enough I'm actually not working that
hard we're having a conversation but if
I were nervous if you were to ask me a
very hard question or if I was feeling
burnt out tired dismissed
I would lose my volume and then I would
go into vocal fry yeah is when we're
like talking like this and we're sort of
not enough breath is coming through and
so you can hear that rattle in the back
of my throat now if I were to give my
entire interview like this it would
drive you absolutely crazy
right that's good yeah
so vocal fry is very simple it's when
we're don't have enough breath to give
our voice so one and this is double you
have to hear when are you hearing it
is it because someone literally hasn't
been talking all day and it's going to
get themselves revved up is it because
they're actually anxious or nervous like
all of a sudden they went from hey
everyone good to see you oh this is
gonna be great so um my announcement is
like really basic and then all of a
sudden they go into it and then how do
you want to address it so do you want to
address the emotion or the cue this is a
challenge we have as key readers are you
going to address the emotion or the cue
so do you want to say afterwards are we
all good on that and I just want to make
sure that you're feeling good or follow
up in an email hey I just want to double
check on you Lindsay are you sure you're
feeling good about that so that's
addressing what you think might be
happening or do you want to address the
cue if you want to get rid of vocal fry
all you have to do is ask someone to
speak up
that's fascinating that's it if you ask
someone to speak up they have to use
more breath they go oh yeah sure and
they force more out of their breath and
they immediately got a vocal fry I've
been in presentations before where
someone is giving away their power with
vocal fry they have amazing content but
they are literally giving the entire
presentation like this and so it's
really hard to listen to and it sounds
like they just don't believe in what
they're saying and so I will say to them
hey in the back we can't quite hear you
can you hear in the back and they'll
immediately speak up and get out of it
so that's also a gift you can give
someone if you hear someone who's giving
away their power and they're doing it
accidentally gift them the breath why is
it giving away your power
I think that
people who doubt their ideas and they
doubt themselves
that leaks in their cues
right so they might have the best
presentation or they may be when I put
my finger in that for a second because
that feels like a core thing in the book
is to understand that you're leaking
whether you're leaking
um warmth or whether you're leaking
competence or whether you're leaking
insecurity anxiety yes you are leaking
these things there is no mute button
I think professionals who are nervous
they hope they can just go mute or stoic
they're like I don't know what I want to
send so I'm going to send nothing there
is no mute button in fact going mute in
itself is a cue and it is a danger zone
cue right when someone poker because
that was such a great example man I love
looking at poker studies so
um you're kind of you already know the
answer to this but we can play with
everyone at home okay so let's say that
I played a little game with you and I
said that you could watch poker play
players playing poker you have three
choices of the kind of videos you could
watch a the full body Head Hands feet
B Just the head so as they're playing
all you see is the facial expressions
and head movement or C just the hands so
just how they're playing and dealing the
cards what would you choose a b or c you
already know the answer yeah but I I
know what my real answer is and I would
have said the face 100 okay so the first
answer actually people usually give is
the full body because they're like more
information is better the second most
popular answer is the face I want to see
their facial expressions and their tails
and their head movement the actual
answer the people who were the most
accurate at predicting how good
someone's hand was was just looking at
the hands and that is because we try to
control our leaks so someone has a bad
hand they're trying to control their
face and go really stoic they're trying
to not move a lot and we actually notice
that we notice if they're going stoic or
going mute we notice if they have all of
a sudden kind of jerky weird movement
but our hands are really hard to control
so people with really good hands have
fluidity of movement they have really
sure playing their hands are really
smooth and what's amazing is we know
this instinctively when we just look at
someone's hands and we take away the
other cues we can spot the good hand by
looking at the smoothness of a player's
hand
so interesting and in the book I
sometimes get lost between what's in the
book and what I heard in an interview
but I think it's in the book okay that
um there was a woman who one year after
deciding she was going to play poker
ends up winning this incredible
tournament yes
um
and wasn't she looking at him that's
what she learned so she um this is a
great book
um I and she what she did is she yeah
she taught herself to play poker in one
year she entered these major tournaments
and the way she was able to climb from
table to table to be at the Winner's
table was she stopped looking at the
cues on the face and on the feet and she
really really focused on the hands
because that's when she could see if
someone actually had a good hand or not
the jerky motion means you're leaking
nervousness because think about it if
you're nervous or anxious a you can't
control as much and B you're expending
energy in all kinds of weird spaces very
highly charismatic people leaders don't
waste energy all their movements are
purposeful and smooth that's one of the
reasons I said don't touch your face
don't touch your stomach is because
that's a wasted energetic Movement we
like people who are only saying I'm
going to make a movement with this
gesture or this gesture and so yes she
was able to climb the top of the tables
simply by looking at fluidity of hands
she also did a lot of training and
mentoring but that's how she was able to
go so quickly it's because she was
looking for leaks yeah I didn't see that
one coming yeah um I thought that
zooming in on the face would be better
for the same reason that zooming in on
the hands works is that you're not
getting all this extraneous information
yes and the reason that I was asking
about gut instinct is you know your
subconscious is able to take in so much
more data than you can process
consciously yes and I also heard you
talk about
the smell test that they did where they
had people jumping out of an airplane
versus I don't know if it was running or
whatever but yes yes so yes exactly as
you said it exactly right is our
subconscious is this amazing Q reading
machine and so it is constantly trying
to set tell your gut listen that wasn't
good we should be nervous or this person
is great it's constantly trying to speak
to us we just have to listen to it so
yes in this study what they did is they
had two groups of people wear sweat pads
and run on the treadmill and the second
group they had them wear sweat pads and
jump out of airplanes obviously the one
on the treadmill were very sweaty but
they weren't afraid the people jumping
out of the airplane plane had a lot of
adrenaline a lot of cortisol then they
had people smell
those sweat pads kind of gross really
gross and people who didn't know what
they were smelling people who smelled
the skydiving sweat pads began to feel
anxious
they actually caught the fear
what's incredible about this is it means
that there's these Loops happening all
over our life that we don't realize that
when we walk into a room and we're like
why am I in a funk
why am I in a bad mood why am I angry
a lot of the time it's because you
caught
some kind of cue that your intuition was
going
you got to be on protection mode or you
got to be defensive or the opposite
you'll walk into a room or be with
someone and be like yeah I love this
feeling and this is why I think that
before you walk into a room before you
walk on a date before you walk a
networking event if you can get yourself
right if you can show up as your most
confident confident self if you know
that you have all these cues in your
back pocket you know your stuff you
really have good intention to be warm
and trustworthy that makes you super
contagious in a good way
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right guys now back to the episode
let's bring this all together for people
there's part of the book that I really
liked is
choosing better words really being
engaging with people and I actually
thought about opening the interview with
this because I do this in real life with
a different question but cutting past
the BS and in an interview you threw off
the person didn't didn't follow up on it
and I was sad you were giving examples
of things you could open with at like a
party or something and you said what's
your deepest fear and I was like word
word so Vanessa van Edwards what's your
deepest fear
and help us understand why it's so
meaningful to find like that to me yeah
maybe one of the most fascinating Parts
about Hughes is bringing this all
together to really like not
incrementally improve your ability to
connect but like to use that to go to a
whole new place so I both want to
understand actually what your biggest
fear is and then why something like that
is so
it brings us together in a far more
interesting way
I think
I really want to I really want to answer
how because I think my answer to this
has changed over the years right now I
think my deepest fear is actually that
underestimated
word on the back of the book now are you
worried about other people will
underestimate you or that you'll
underestimate you I think both I have
this like opportunity fomo so I
constantly have this fear that I'm like
missing opportunities I think that's one
of the reasons I wrote this book and one
of the reasons I'm obsessed with cues is
because I am terrified that I am missing
things
I feel like I missed the memo on social
interactions right like that's my entire
career is trying to write up that memo
again and that really hurt me it really
slowed me down for so many years it
destroyed my confidence it made me have
bad relationships it made me ignore cues
I think for a long time I had really
toxic people in my life and I didn't
spot the cues
I didn't
my guts fought at the cues and I didn't
listen
and so I think I don't want to have that
anymore I am terrified of having
toxic people who I miss I miss those
cues and on the positive side I'm
terrified of seeing good people and good
opportunities and missing them like I
have regrets about people who I Let Go
who I'm like what was I thinking I
missed that and so I think I'm terrified
of underestimating others I'm terrified
of missing things that I shouldn't have
missed or not listening to my gut
and why is something like that to me was
really really interesting and if there
were no cameras on and I didn't have to
think about the thumbnail headline for
the YouTube video I would have started
the interview there yeah
um why why is that so fascinating this
actually isn't in the book but I wanna
it's something that I think about a lot
um so I read this research I believe it
was by Dan McAdams and he talks about
three levels of intimacy have you ever
heard this concept
it is why I suggested that question
what's your deepest fear
what he found is we get stuck in these
levels and so he found that our three
levels of intimacy between people this
isn't even in cues it's just what I use
the first level is called General traits
he calls it General traits it's like why
we get stuck in like so what do you do
where are you from
right it's occupation age gender we get
stuck there we can't get out of it
that's why you have people who are like
gender yeah didn't see that coming yeah
that's why um I think that if people are
um that's why why a lot of now we're
saying like he she or like we're saying
our pronouns actually helps us get past
level one in a weird way it's like
actually answering that it's called I
call it the hierarchy of facts our brain
actually has to learn the basics before
it can go deep
so those are some of the basics the
second level is what he calls personal
concerns personal concerns this is the
level I like to live at this is like
motivations values this is like what
gets you up in the morning what drives
you what's it what excites you it's why
the questions I often suggest are
um working on anything exciting recently
or what's your hobby these days
that's why I asked you about the
marketplace right like it's it's values
motivations what drives you the last
level the level that we don't even get
to is some people who are closest in our
life is called self-narrative
and self-narrative is the story that you
tell yourself about yourself
and so that if you know someone's story
about themselves the story they're
telling themselves about themselves
that's what helps you predict Behavior
understand them deeply and so I think
that when you ask someone what's your
deepest fear and they're willing to try
to answer it for you they are giving you
a clue into level one two and three
right so like I don't even know in the
hours that we've spent together on
camera and off camera if I've ever
shared anything like that with you that
I've allowed toxic people into my life
and not you know almost destroyed me and
that held me back for a really long time
and I didn't know I didn't stand up for
myself I don't think that's ever come
out but that question unlocked it and
that is part of my self-narrative and
that's the story I tell myself when I'm
driving to this interview when I leave
today when I'm thinking about an
Instagram story it's like it all goes
back to that story
it's like that's my goal in a lot of my
interactions is okay yeah let's get
let's blow through level one I don't
care what you do let's go to level two
at least
what do you value what motivates you and
if I can
like what drives you what's the story
you tell yourself
that I think is a really important
lesson and what the one that I ask
people which I think falls into number
two is
um well maybe number three is what's
your deepest passion
try to keep it positive I would be
reticent to ask somebody that I didn't
know or didn't have you know on a show
like this what their deepest fear is one
if they don't trust me they're gonna lie
anyway but
um getting to something positive
skipping past all the BS I have another
one I can give you this one like it's a
secret it's a secret level three
question and by the way I feel I'm like
scared to say it because I'm like Oh my
friends are gonna be like so that's what
you've been asking that question here's
my secret level three question it's a
sneaker it's um so who's your role model
who's your hero
the reason why this one's such a good
one is because it tells you what they
think their own hero is and you talk a
lot about heroes Lisa talks a lot about
heroes the reason why that's interesting
is I asked one of my very long friends
so like who's your hero who's your role
model or even uh What uh TV or movie
character do you think you're most
similar to and in my head she's a great
mom she's a homemaker she's so kind I
thought she was going to pick an amazing
like Mom like Lorelei Gilmore or
something she goes oh
Katniss Everdeen
I was like Katniss Everdeen do you feel
like you're in The Hunger Games and
she's like oh yeah I'm surviving every
day whoa
and I was like I don't know you
and this is someone who I've been
friends with for years and we had this
whole discussion about how she feels
like she's fighting for time and
fighting for love and fighting for her
day and she's like head above water and
I had no idea my wife will just set her
hand on me for me my hand has to be
moving to show attention oh which is
partly why I think I do the pat on the
back thing but then I've seen that made
fun of so well the thing is is so
padding from a nonverbal perspective
it's an interesting non-verbal move so I
don't know if yeah I'm a little tense I
know well I should tell you you should
know so so padding if it's done from
above it's often a dominance gesture
okay so think about a dog right what do
we do we Pat a dog's head think about a
child we say good job good boy so if
it's done equally like you know oh wow
it's good to see you it's not so bad but
just be careful you're not like the not
that I don't do right so and you'll
notice that it's actually quite a
demeaning gesture there's certain
politicians you might have seen out
there that will
um yeah just a few and they'll they will
Pat they will Pat um on the upper
shoulders or on the upper back it's a
way of saying good boy or good girl it's
a very subtle nonverbal cue but usually
the equal Pat which I think I don't know
what do you think about patty cake
no that's not man enough yeah I don't I
don't your facial expression doesn't
look so good about it I've never had the
instinct to do that but like the
one-handed like I I would say 90 of my
hugs incorporate incorporate a path yeah
so maybe that's the Bro hug yeah the
brug the brug I mean let's just I like
naming everything I name I name car
turns I name hugs or like creating words
let's get into that because it's
actually pretty fascinating so what I
love is that so my core belief about
human existence is that you can learn
virtually anything yeah you've come a
long way from being the awkward person
do you think people can learn anything I
think people can learn anything I think
however you have a spectrum of how much
you can improve so like let's say for
example sports are the easiest way to
think about this so let's say for
example you are a very lightweight
compact male under five foot you would
make a great jockey right like you'd be
great at riding horses if you're small
and compact could you learn to be a
basketball player a hundred percent but
your ability or your percent Improvement
is going to is only going to be able to
improve so much and you're going to have
to work much harder for that compared to
say a six foot seven man who's going to
have to work a little bit less hard to
be able to dunk shots because he just is
closer to the closer to the net I think
if you think about it that way it's how
much work do you have to do to get there
so do you think that part of why you've
been able to get as good as you have
with breaking this stuff down because
you had to learn it or do you think
there's some another another innate
skill that you have that's allowed for
that I think it's because and maybe
other recovering awkward people out
there will feel this way if you are a
recovering awkward person and I don't
mean introvert because not you know
introverts do not have to be awkward
although I am introverted we are very
good at observing and what happens is is
we see interactions in very black or
white ways if you are naturally
charismatic or naturally good with
people you can walk into a room you
don't even have to think about a
conversation Charter whereas if you're
awkward a room looks like either a
battlefield or a playground depending on
your mentality and so if you see a room
like a battle gun or a playground you're
instantly looking for who's on your team
you're looking for patterns you're
looking for verbal weapons you're
looking for different kinds of things
and someone who will just walk into them
and naturally have it right so I think
that what's helped is that I tend to see
every interaction that way which has
helped me study it in a formulaic way
it's a little different what what Drew
you to like the science the study I mean
not a lot of people start their own
research lab so um I was as a journalist
so I was just writing stories and I
loved science I for from a very young
age my parents encouraged the academic
side the the book smarts the IQ and I
think I've totally forgot about the
people smart side the PQ thing so I had
all this ability to read 20 Page
academic studies and find some usable
nugget so I started to write about that
for different blogs and journals out
there and I realized that the one thing
that was could differentiate me anyone
could write you know an article about
science the one thing that could change
what I was writing is if I tested things
on myself so I either became a human
guinea pig or I was able to actually do
research in the real world because most
studies are based on 20 College seniors
who want academic credit for a
psychology class they're not
representative of the whole population
so I thought if there was one thing that
could differentiate this article from
every other journalist it would be
adding my own take on it so it was
actually a differentiator it came from a
place of trying to differentiate my work
from other journalists out there and
then of course a personal need that I
had to try to solve people which I don't
know if it's possible but I'm certainly
still trying it's interesting to solve
people what do you mean by that I loved
in math class where you'd be working on
a math problem and the teacher would be
like okay here's a formula for you right
it was like being given a cipher you
know it was like the most powerful thing
and I thought what if there was a cipher
for people like what if there was a way
a formula for people and so I I have
something that I call the Matrix it was
a little bit different than the Keanu
Reeves Reeves Matrix which I believe
that every person has a cipher they have
a set of values that you can solve about
them that if you turn it in the right
ways you can figure out how to figure
out their motivations how to figure out
their values how to speak to them so
they'll listen how to make them feel
loved and so that's the closest I've
come to actually solving people and it's
the only way that I've found to interact
successfully and when you say solve
though you saying to be able to have
like a useful interaction or to not to
not be so baffled by people's choices so
I don't know I don't know if this is a
pain point for you but I was constantly
feeling like I didn't understand where
people were coming from or they would be
making choices and I didn't understand
why especially with friendships and so
I've found that if I can figure out how
they're coded how they're wired no
longer do their decisions and their
actions become baffling right so give us
some of those things so in fact let me
you and I were talking about this but
let me break it down for you at home hi
um so the way that I normally prepare
for an interview is very different than
the way that I will go through a book
for a book review and started the book
on an international flight so I had
plenty of time and started it just to
read it as part of my interview prep for
this interview and then
man like really fast I was like whoa
that was a cool insight and then that
was another one and then rapidly it just
turned into a book review and I just
like went in like all the different
points and how they add up and just like
all the things I wanted in my own life
and started because you and and this is
what I'd really like you to talk about
now you start breaking down like what
motivates people what's their love
language what's their primary value that
kind of stuff and so I started going oh
my God like what's mine like first of
all I didn't even know mine yes and I
found it very weird because I consider
myself super self-aware I found it so
much easier to identify my wife's always
than to identify my own yeah so what are
the like sort of key things to
understanding someone else or yourself
yeah so I like to think of people a
little bit like an onion um in that you
know there's different layers
exactly but tastes delicious once cooked
okay so the outside layer I think is the
easiest one to solve that's one we start
with so this is the Big Five personality
traits and there's a lot of personality
research out there the only personality
science that's actually backed used by
academic institutions is called Ocean or
the big five so this is someone's
openness so how adventurous they are
someone's conscientiousness how
organized they are someone's
extroversion that's the one we all know
how how they like being around people
agreeableness so how they work on teams
if they default to yes or default to
know we can talk about that one if you
want and then neuroticism which is the
which is the one that no one wants to
talk about
neuroticism is my favorite it's how
someone approaches worry so that's sort
of the first that those are the easiest
to solve and actually research has found
that I could look in your wallet for
example where I could open your bedside
table and probably solve a lot of your
personality traits I wish I could do
that wallet yes you don't have it not on
me what would you be looking for because
I would give it to you in a heartbeat
that would be so fun so we are doing a
study right now actually besides people
where I want people to take pictures of
a couple different assets in their in
their life one their car trunk and by
the way if anyone watching wants to send
me pictures of these things I'm happy to
analyze them so they're car trunk do you
want me to tell you what mine looks like
yeah it's empty only because my wife's
pressure is unending otherwise it would
be a filthy mess so that tells me that
you are a little higher in agreeableness
because you want to make your wife happy
you are so right I am like extreme
really high in agreeableness yes
absolutely and that's so the fact that
that was right I didn't even mean to let
that slip out by the way yes I'm just
trying to be honest about the fact that
it's clean oh now this interview is
killing my wife yes okay so that's so
that that because that's your motivation
right that was your motivation there um
so your trunk
um your medicine cabinet and doesn't
have you can hide your prescriptions I
just want to see how it's organized and
how it's laid out what's in there I
don't really have a medicine cabinet but
it's like stuffed in a drawer stepped in
a drawer then maybe medium and
conscientiousness
so conscientiousness is how organized or
how much you like routine okay so it's
like um people who are really high in
contentious this is this is me I I find
making a to-do list like a sport you
know like if I was an Olympic Athlete
like I could make to-do lists I could be
a champion in this I will put things on
my to-do list just for the pleasure of
checking them off nice someone's high in
country yeah someone already I got you
we are the same yeah like alphabetizing
gives me an adrenaline rush wow you know
what I mean some people jump out of
airplanes you out alphabetizing like
like you know a bunch of books by color
and by author name oh my goodness so
anyway so that's high in conscientious
low in conscientiousness means you're
much more easy going you're much more
spontaneous you you feel that the
creative process is going with the flow
and actually routine sort of boxes you
in so if you're if you're a medicine
drawer or medicine cabinet is like a
little bit more haphazard you don't
really have a system to it I would guess
you're either medium low in
conscientiousness well it's interesting
so I'm very low I'm about as low as you
can get the conscientiousness scale it
is only because my wife is muddling your
ability to read that's right she forces
me to hide it in a drawer yeah otherwise
it would just be everywhere everywhere
yeah okay so low and conscientiousness
um and then uh we hate that name by the
way because that one made me feel weird
about being low I feel like I'm a
conscientious person I think about other
people and what their needs are yeah so
conscient it's funny you mentioned
language so um language is a serious
issue so for example the book has now
gotten picked up in 10 other languages
and it's a problem thank you but it's
we're trying to figure out words and for
example in Western cultures there is an
ideal personality type and you will
notice that every romantic comedy the
woman is the ideal personality type for
women and the man is usually the ideal
personality type for man so in Western
cultures for women it is high in
contentiousness so that that's sort of
her funny Quirk she's really organized
it doesn't like to be spontaneous yeah
yeah
um a high and agreeableness so yeah
whatever you want sweet 80.
either medium or high in neuroticism so
kind of a warrior but it's cute and
endearing
very spontaneous and extroverted and
bubbly and high in openness adventurous
and imaginative that's like the perfect
diode so the problem is when you talk
about neuroticism neuroticism should not
be a negative word but it is considered
negative because then you're called a
type or controlling and so it's funny
language is actually a huge issue so
Consciousness does not mean that you
don't care about people it just means
routine is not your your love like like
some people so anyway at the lab we're
trying to figure out if we can guess
people's personality types or solve
their Matrix based on their different
assets in their house good so far yeah
so we're gonna ask people for that and
then
um the funny one is what's on your walls
so we've got the Michael Jordan Flu Game
okay which is probably my most
meaningful piece of art okay uh it's all
art so I guess we'll start with that
okay and then mostly movies so Matrix
has like three or four appearances in
the house
um and then that's pretty much it so
what they say is this is a research
according to Sam Gosling he wrote a
great book called Snoop which is if
you're a snooper this is the book for
you so Sam Gosling found that
um High neurotics
use more motivational quotes
so I am a high neurotic I'm I'm
definitely a warrior
um and by the way you know if you're
high neurotic or lone erotic if you're
really good at what-if scenarios so high
neurotics we love pros and cons lists we
can think through every worst case
scenario ever whereas low neurotics they
say things like it'll all be fine which
to alone erotic is like the worst thing
that you can say because we believe that
worrying is like an investment account
do you know what I mean so like the more
that I worry the less likelihood it will
happen
um that's interesting so motive so high
neurotics use I love motivational quotes
because it's like an external regulator
for their internal World wow so I have a
lot of motivational quotes in my office
space you didn't have any which makes me
think that you're not very high neurotic
I'm super low neurotic but I'm insanely
uh chemically impacted by motivational
stuff so like I keep a list of quotes
that I find motivational or empowering
um I follow a bunch of Instagram
accounts that are all motivational your
list of quotes is it in a book is it
covered or is it for display it's in
Evernote okay so that means that you are
medium or low neurotic because High
neurotics we so can I get a little
sciencey okay so um High neurotics carry
a special form of a certain Gene it's
called the serotonin transporter gene so
serotonin is a really important chemical
in our body it's what keeps us calm it's
what keeps us nice and stable so for
example if you're driving and all of a
sudden someone almost hits you they
don't hit you but they almost hit you
your adrenaline goes your cortisol goes
and you're like oh we almost got a car
accident a low neurotic like you will
begin to produce serotonin so your body
goes
we're okay everything's fine and then a
few minutes later you're back to your
music everything's fine a high neurotic
like me has a harder time producing
serotonin we have a longer form of this
transporter gene so we produce less
serotonin and more slowly which means
that my adrenaline cortisol are pumping
for longer than yours so if I'm in the
car with you and I'm like gosh that
driver and you're like oh well he didn't
hit us we're good now I'm still an
adrenaline and cortisol but you're calm
so what happens is is that a we as high
neurotics are not as good at
self-soothing so we tend to have
reminders external reminders to tell us
to calm down whereas you as a loneronic
you don't need to see it you can look at
it when you feel like it when you're
curious you pop up on Instagram or
Twitter when you feel like it whereas I
want to have them everywhere remind me
I'm okay wow that that is really
interesting one of the things that I
found so awesome about your book was one
it was teaching me about myself but two
it was teaching me about Lisa so and in
in the relationship the ones where you
were like okay these this is probably
where you want to be in agreement where
you're both like the same and then these
are ones where you want to balance and
you had talked about neuroticism and
wanting to balance each other out and we
balance each other out so I'm really low
neurotic and she's very high neurotic
not in the Woody Allen way but like the
way you're talking about yeah where
she's just like I get it I she'll like
go through like the thousand ways that
this could go wrong and just be like
have a much harder time like
self-soothing and when you said
self-soothing that's yeah what's really
interesting so why it's important to
balance you don't have to but there's
actually studies that show that certain
personality traits are better when
they're matching versus opposite so
High neurotics get a bad rap right
everyone's like oh they're the warrior
they're the one who's always like you
know overthinking things but you
actually need to have both and the
reason for this is because you're low
neurotic Utah are wonderful in a crisis
so if there's something bad happening or
you need to get things done you're the
one with the level head you know it's
all going to be okay you can stay steady
the course
High neurotics prevent crises from
happening in the first place what's
funny is so high neurotics need external
reminders to keep them calm so we like
to see our to-do lists or our pros and
cons we like to have our Rock and your
bias at our side whereas low neurotics
like to have external reminders of
things they need to take care of yes
right because they they don't have the
internal alarm clock that's constantly
screaming at them I joke that the piles
scream at me you know from the floor
because I can I like want to get them
whereas you might not see them I
literally don't don't see them I know I
keep my regular day-to-day stuff in my
travel case because if I know if I don't
and I travel it'll never it'll never
make it I just won't remember it yeah
yeah so so you got to work around for
you and I think this is what we're
talking about here is knowing how you
are wired instead of fighting it that's
interesting because I'm a big believer
in fight anything that doesn't work for
you but you talk what if we talk about
optimize okay so I think I think what I
see a lot and this is with personal
development and I'm a self-help addict
right like I love every person's
development book I love like self-help
and transformation the problem is is
that if we feel like we can change
everything we also might not optimize
for how we are naturally wired it's
interesting so the way that I like to
think about it is every step in the book
you know I teach a scientific principle
I tell a story if you scientific
principal then I give you three steps
almost always step number one is you
right is figure out how you're wired
before you work on someone else it's
like in a in a flight they always tell
you put your oxygen mask on before you
pick someone else it's the same thing
like figure out your own wiring first so
you figured out that you will not
remember so by packing in that day pack
you've now taken out that worry fix that
problem and now you don't have to worry
about it as opposed to trying to take 15
different classes on how to be more of a
warrior right
do you know what I mean so I think that
um figuring out how your spouse is wired
and not trying to change them but rather
trying to set up systems in your home or
systems for your business partner or
things for your friends to know how
they're wired another example is um my
good friend Anna Lauren if she's
watching
um so she is a warrior also but if I
give her too many choices she'll get
Choice paralysis so instead of trying to
teach her how to make choices for
herself and you know go through a whole
you know what is paradox of choice You
Know lesson plan for her I know that if
I want to go to dinner with her I'm
better off giving her one time and only
two restaurant choices
right and I know that she likes to see
the menu because she's High
conscientious so if I went to dinner
usually I will as an active service say
hey ale you want to go out for dinner on
Monday at seven I think we could do Thai
here's the menu link or we could do
sushi here's the menu link and she will
get back to me really fast if not what
happens is every day she goes oh yeah
but I'm not sure about this but what
about this restaurant and we ended up
rushing on the plans last minute are you
is this a two-way street with your
friends like they know I mean obviously
they know you they know what you do so
they know they're in the Matrix they
know they're in the Matrix yeah but do
you like walk them through like here's
how you rate on Ocean and yeah you show
them us yeah so my closest friends first
of all my closest friends know to be my
to be my friend you know that every time
you hang out with me it might be an
experiment so you have a quote that I
love I would rather live in hard truth
than ignorant Bliss yeah and you're
really into
um radical honesty I am how does that
play out in your marriage how does that
play on your friendships yeah so in my
marriage I got very lucky I married the
most honest man I ever met so he is very
direct all ready so he actually has
helped me in that just very directness
with friends it's hard I had to make the
choice a long time ago when I first
started this work especially with lie
detection
lie detection is a skill that is a
blessing and a curse a little bit
um just because you see inconvenient
things right you see things that you
didn't expect to see about yourself or
no usually about other people I think
you see in the personality Matrix you
see things about yourself you might not
like as much but with lie detection you
tend to see things about other people
that you might not find as convenient so
I yes very nice defined as convenient
yes because what happens is and this is
what happened at the very beginning of
sort of honing the skill and leveraging
it is I started to see friends who were
not only lying to me but lying to
themselves
and I had to make a choice was I either
going to have fewer high quality friends
or less quality but more quantity
friends and this was right at that stage
where I also was trying to figure out
what kind of friendships that I want to
have on social media
and it's the same I think question that
we all have to ask ourselves I think of
social media friendships like cotton
candy
I call these cotton candy friendships so
cotton candy friendships are great these
are the people that you love seeing at a
party right you see them you're like oh
you do a squiggle you're so excited to
see them you know they're also the woo
girls you know
you know you see them and I get excited
even Tom's like I don't know with that I
have zero yeah that's okay yeah yeah I'm
sure you've seen it before
um and they're and they're really fun to
hang out with there's a lot of substance
there's not a lot of nutrition right you
wouldn't text them if you were going
through something hard you wouldn't you
know call them if something happened to
them but it's a fun exciting friendship
the thing is is you eventually need to
have a meal right like cotton candy is
okay every once in a while but if you
have too much of it your teeth begin to
like rot from it you know you're the
ache from the sugar
um and they give you a sugar headache
and so I think that it's about what are
the friends that give you nutrition like
the brisket friends
and then which of those friends that are
kind of the surface ones and that was a
big decision I had to make you've talked
about breaking up with friends like so
how do you sculpt that Garden of
friendship
it's so hard so I think that adult
friendships is you know when you're a
teenager everyone's talking about like
bullying and cyber bullying I think that
as adults this adult friendship issue is
the next sort of Frontier of talking
about how do we Court friends how do we
build a friendship when it's not
romantic how do we break up with a
friendship when it's been too long and
the biggest thing that happens with
friendships is they do go stale
and that's a very weird thing to say but
there are people I'm sure you can think
of someone in your life where every time
their number pops up on a text message
you're like oh
it's been a while I better call them or
you know you see them out of convenience
or out of location and I think those are
the kind of friendships that really
drain you there's actually a study that
was done on ambivalent relationships
yeah this is so interesting yeah I'm
thinking about ambivalence a lot so
toxic people we get it right we all
understand that we want to get rid of
toxic people that's more obvious the
real danger I think is ambivalent
relationships so these ambivalent
relationships are the people where
either you don't know how you stand with
them so you don't know if they like you
or not and they're also the people where
you don't know if you really enjoy
hanging out with them or not have you
ever had that yes and you're like is
this going to be fun was that fun is
this fun
um and I think those are the ones that
take the more energy there are also the
more dangerous ones because they tend to
creep in and stay in tell me what is
charisma
Charisma is the perfect blend of being
likable and Powerful
six words or something all right so
likable and Powerful so now break those
two elements down for me so likability
okay so I think that what there's
there's a mistake that happens with very
smart people this is the one that we see
the most often is really smart
intelligent people they want to hit you
with their smarts they want to be
impressive and so they come into
interaction or on a video call and
they're like I want to blow you away as
they mentioned accolades and numbers and
fancy facts and rehearsed answers and
people will see them as impressive
capable powerful but cold
intimidating hard to talk to and so and
this is what the research found
competence without warmth leaves people
feeling suspicious
suspicious why suspicious this is from
Dr Susan Fisk that is a direct quote I I
memorized it because it took my breath
away when I read it because I realized
for so long
as you know I'm a recovering awkward
person I would try to you know impress
people and and make sure that they liked
me and so I would try to blow them away
with smarts and the problem is is that
when you do that it leaves people
feeling suspicious and that's because
when we don't have likability likability
softens our power
when we add the warmth plus competence
so likable friendly compassionate
trustworthy plus capable powerful
impressive That's The Sweet Spot and the
study what they did is they had
participants look at short clips of
politicians they didn't know these
politicians they just had them walk to
these clips of politicians and they
asked them two different questions who
is warm likable and trustworthy and who
is dominant powerful and capable
the politicians who had only one of
those were not rated as charismatic they
were not as successful they weren't as
successful in real life or just in the
study in the study they were ranked very
low on the Charisma scale so they could
be seen as trustworthy but if they
weren't also powerful they were not seen
as compelling they were not seen as
convincing they weren't seen as
memorable so the biggest challenge I
think we have to be charismatic is to
show up as our warmest most competent
self but it has to be that balance
of course and that's why it's amazing
but it's like talk about feeling like
you're being pulled in two opposite
directions and I find I find it huh I
don't want to use the wrong word here I
I find it easy to be warm yeah and I
find it easy to be intense I find it
difficult to be warm and intense
although you didn't use the word intense
use powerful but I guess I don't like I
like to moniker at myself but yes so
warm and intense I find extraordinarily
difficult yes warm or intense okay
that's a lot easier I'm gonna make you
feel better please
actually the research finds they can be
chronological okay and this is extremely
helpful like this is like next level yes
warmth okay okay why as humans when we
first meet another human the very first
question we ask about them is can I
trust you right so like from across the
room on a video call in an email
we are looking can I trust you are you
on my side are you a threat can I can I
make sure that I'm not going to be at
harm not just physical harm but even
like emotional harm are you on my side
the next question we answer and it is
the next question is can I rely on you
so let's take an email for example
because that's a the easy we can control
all the elements in a really good email
we do this sometimes naturally but not
always the subject and the opener should
be warm
maybe the opening line is all swarm and
the content the body of the email is
competent competent competent and the
sign off is your choice so for example
when we look at words I love the power
of word choice what research finds is
when we read words like collaborate we
are more likely to be collaborative when
we read words like power we are more
likely to be powerful here's a specific
study it's a little complicated can I go
can I go deep yeah yeah please the study
like blew my mind so here's what they
did they had participants come into the
lab and they gave them like a quiz like
a math test they had to solve
one set of participants got a set of
directions that was very simple it said
please take this test take your time
answer all the questions correctly
group got a same set of directions but
they sprinkled in a couple of high
achievement words or achievement
oriented words so achievement orange
words are like win succeed Master
achieve we love those words they like
give us the tinglies okay they just
sprinkled them in they wanted to know if
just adding in a couple of achievement
oriented words would change participants
Behavior
just those achievement-oriented words
made them get more answers right so it
actually changed their performance in
other words reading the word win makes
you think more like a winner it changes
your physiology to be more like a winner
second that's where I think it gets more
interesting it doubled doubled their
desire to work on the task
so it made them work on the quiz longer
and it made them enjoy working on the
quiz
and lastly it actually changed their
physiology so when we read what were
they measuring so how many questions I
got right but when you say it changed
their physiology how do we know yes they
are measuring the amount of testosterone
or dopamine or oxytocin they took their
blood levels I believe it was either
blood or saliva wow see if their
physiology would change so when we read
words like this it actually changes how
we think and how we feel so I share this
because I think we send emails or we
have a LinkedIn profile and we throw at
you hey everyone uh today we have to get
a lot of things done it's gonna be a
really busy week let's make sure that we
overcome all those challenges when you
write words like busy people are
literally primed to be busier when you
write words like challenge they're more
likely to be challenged so going back to
warmth and competence
it's a challenge for everyone if you
open up your last five sent emails to
important people only the important ones
and you count the number of warm words
you're using and the number of competent
words you're using you will see exactly
how you're coming across to others
that the best thing you can do is open
with warmth hit him with competence and
end with purpose the truth is hitting
your career goals is not easy you have
to be willing to go the extra mile to
stand out and do hard things better than
anybody else but there are 10 steps I
want to take you through that will 100x
your efficiency so you can crush your
goals and get back more time into your
day you'll not only get control of your
time you'll learn how to use that
momentum to take on your next big goal
to help you do this I've created a list
of the 10 most impactful things that any
High achiever needs to dominate and you
can download it for free by clicking the
link in today's description alright my
friend back to today's episode the
number of times that I've written an
email where I'm like okay let's do this
we're literally the first word is let's
do this or text even worse and then I'm
about to hit send and I'm like let me
just quick go back to this and I'm like
oh my God hi good morning you know like
to add something although after reading
the book I realize I'm adding sort of
the lamest most boring easy to tune out
words humanly possible but are you
usually adding warmth or competence
oh I don't think of it I'm always trying
to add warmth I never think about the
competence I'm always just uh goal
oriented so the the the thought that
triggers in my head is always there is
something very specific and concrete I'm
trying to accomplish yes and I go right
to it yes and I find so every every time
I read your books or we get to sit down
together we're on camera or off camera I
become hyper aware in a good way because
I think that too often I'm not thinking
through like I'm in my head I know what
I'm trying to do
but I forget that you really do have to
do the emotional management the
relationship management especially when
you have employees it's you have to
every time you touch somebody it's like
accumulating into their perception of
who you are and so if all I'm ever doing
is goal oriented and I'm not taking the
time to connect with them as a human it
gets weird so anyway I don't think about
warmth or competence yes in the first
pass because I'm I'm just in the task
yes then I go back and I do a warmth
pass yes
usually yeah I'm sure I forget yeah yes
um but it is it's very interesting how
your default mode doesn't take any of
that into consideration right and I
think that that's why we're so burnt out
what do you mean by that I think the
reason why we're all like oh I'm in this
malaise like the days are so long why
we're so burnt out is because
our way that we communicate has changed
and we're trying to get things done
we've become a very task is this
specific to covid no I think this is
this was already Brewing you said the
way that we work has changed I think the
way that we work has changed I think
since uh video calls emails and digital
communication has been easy and then it
got exacerbated by coven because what's
happening is
our way of communication is changing so
we're putting more out right our output
for communication I I I don't know
quadruple 10x think about the days where
we didn't have email or text just phone
we maybe had an in-person conversation
with a colleague and in-person
conversation with our partner we maybe
picked up the phone and called someone
what is that the maximum you could have
20 or 30 interactions in a day at the
max but that's only if you're isolated
because so recently we started having
people if they wanted to come back to
the house you have to test every day and
yesterday was the first day where like
there were quite a few people here yes
and we were all sitting around the table
and I was like wow this is so the amount
of communication I would have said is
way higher but it was all informal so it
was like it wasn't a meeting it wasn't
like uh like if I send a text it has a
really specific agenda I'm trying to get
to this right it was you know goofing
around it was being more playful it was
quick like things about hey have you
talked to this person that kind of thing
and I was like whoa whoa because I've
I've said to people yeah you know I'm a
little worried about working from home
because I love it as a sort of
I will say I'm introverted I'm I'm an
ambivert to your point and you can talk
about you go into that in the book but
but I'm also almost isolationist when
I'm in introvert mode yes where it's
like I don't want to see or talk to
anybody I put over-the-ear headphones I
don't want people interrupting me or
talking to me
and but I began to like uh I'm a little
worried on the creative side that's
where I've always focused on the
creative side that we're losing energy
and it's hard to get people excited
about something when it's like you know
this asynchronous communication and
yesterday when people were in the room I
was like oh my God like just the the
human connection and the fun yes and the
flood of chemicals right so I think that
when we're in person and there was what
maybe five or ten people those are five
or ten connections that you're having
all day or during a meeting in a digital
world or we're having online connection
we could have hundreds right like every
text we send is is its own unique
communication and that burns us out
because it's giving us all the same
information without the chemicals
right so in person so with you the
timing of this conversation is so on
point for what's going on in my life we
have to manage that right like I want
you to be aware that okay if people come
over I'm getting way more chemicals I'm
getting the oxytocin of the handshake
I'm getting oxytocin from the eye
contact I'm getting dopamine because
we're smiling and laughing together
and I'm getting the information I've
been getting for the last you know
couple months in a text or an email or
even a video call it shrinks we're
getting way less of the good chemicals
way less of the dopamine and oxytocin
but the same amount of information
I think that is why we're so burnt out
so I think the more that we can take
control of our cues so you know I've
always struggled with confidence I've
always tried to grasp that you know that
amazing spirit I think the only way to
do it is control for me that I think
that controlling the environment
controlling my cues okay so I think that
the only way that I feel confident is if
I know okay I have this important email
I have to send to a team member and
here's the information I have to get
across I do the same thing as you I
think most people do I get the
information out first typically write
like here's what has to get done
and then I add in the warmth typically
in the first 10 words and this is a
really easy way to do it for yourself
this is only when it's important it
doesn't have to be every email I think
okay what is the person what do I want
this person to feel if I were with them
in person what would I want to gift them
when I want to give them excitement like
get excited about them gifts I think
it's a gift I think that we can prevent
burnout by gifting the right chemicals
right like it takes effort like a gift
so if I'm like okay I want this person
to be excited about this project I'm
going to use words that cue for
excitement and this is literally what
the research shows that when we say
things like what are you excited about
or I can't wait for this project or I'm
looking forward to this those are
excitement words or do I want a gift
strategy do I want to gift Efficiency do
I know that we are pushed for time and I
want a gift streamline collaborate
brainstorm credible the more I use those
words the more I am literally gifting
that testosterone that chemical so I
think that that's how we can Next Level
it's like next Next Level we can gift
those chemicals to people in our
in-person interactions but also in our
emails and our videos
I find really interesting about that is
that you're cueing not only to other
people but to yourself even selecting
the word gift which is an interesting
reframe for me as I think about that
think about the different interactions
and what I want to communicate but even
choosing that word feels very different
than communicate or even give yeah
that's yeah that's really powerful
getting the framing device right so that
whatever your sort of emotional goal is
there and you just queued me that you
want to talk this is so interesting and
you go into detail about this like the
cues that people will do
um walk me through what just happened in
the last nine seconds okay so I really
wanted to reframe you because you were
wanting to get it done which was good
and we were talking about like how do we
make it better how do we get it done and
the reframe I wanted to give was this is
like a gift and how did you interrupt me
though without saying a word
I so first I was using the word gift
which I think already was like like your
brain was like oh that's something
different and then also I leaned into
you right and I widened my eyebrows a
little bit just to show like we're open
like we're getting into this so like
those were two high warmth cues so we
think about non-verbal I was trying to
cue you for warmth right so I leaned a
little bit more and by the way this
changes our brain so the study that I
share in the book which is just try
anyone just try leaning in a little bit
it will actually activate a different
area of your brain so when I lean in a
little bit you eat lean in a little bit
more like your head actually in a bit
which activates your motivation and then
even just taking a breath and slightly
opening your mouth I was like up I know
it it is so I knew exactly that you had
something to say and I think we all take
it for granted how you can use that in
the book you walk people through hey if
there's somebody that's talking too much
and you need to interrupt them but you
know they're like okay okay okay so this
is like a superpower so if I have anyone
who's an introvert anyone who's awkward
anyone who lacks a social assertiveness
I think social assertiveness is actually
like a hidden in trait that everyone
should learn because to be socially
assertive it means you're putting your
needs forward but you're being polite
about it right so you're not you're not
people pleasing you're not betting okay
so this is if you have an interrupter so
you have someone who constantly
interrupts you you have a couple
techniques first is the open mouth which
I just did to you
um so the open mouth I call it the fish
so if you want to say something you
right and the bigger the the open the
more they'll notice this works on video
calls this works in person so if
someone's talking to you
you're like oh she needs to say
something you'll bookmark it you'll
literally go wait she has to say
something so try opening the mail the
second one is we are very cute that a
hand raise or even a finger raise means
one moment can I say something and so if
you have someone who's talking or who
interrupted you you can literally
that a little bookmark or a little like
it's like a pupil right like you're
raising your hand and the next level is
you actually Reach Out And Touch them
and that's like my least favorite but if
you really have my least favorite
because in this world if we're six feet
apart right it's really hard to cross
that space boundary and also some people
aren't comfortable with touch so I
reserve that one if you're only like I
really need to get their attention touch
is like the nuclear weapon or maybe
plutonium is the right word it's the
plutonium of communication it can be
used to create nuclear power or an
atomic bomb I I don't think we talked
about this in the last time they were
together but I went out on
um a business evening with a woman who
touched so much that I was almost
laughing to myself and no I know and it
it actually wasn't awkward and what made
it so interesting was how hyper aware of
it I was and that it still worked and I
was like how is this possible like but
it's working yeah like forearm hand oh
my God laughing shoulder I was like what
is happening right now I felt like I was
at a magic show so this is a this is a
thing that magicians do they acclimate
you to being touched so when they pick
your pocket you've just been so used to
them touching you don't even notice wait
can I ask you where did she touch you uh
arm arm shoulder okay so yes so and this
is for if you want to be a toucher if
you want to like use this plutonium I
like that word
um keep in mind that um the further up
the arm you go the more intimate the
touch so like if you want to start with
a touch like a hand touch is the least
intimate the most safe right so if
someone's like talking like this you
could reach out and touch their hand
that's the most I'm so like germaphobic
now if somebody's if you touch my arm
I'm fine if you touch my hands like yo
those are fighting words I wonder
change it like now because our hands
came I would certainly be worried about
it okay so for the beer and back is
usually okay like but the more the lower
we go the more intimate the touch
becomes I was just curious if it was all
here it was and it broke down like every
barrier that I had it was so interesting
because I would I am so weird about that
I would never Reach Out And Touch
Somebody that I did not know
extraordinarily well no and no yeah like
it was really but it was really
interesting
so well I was like
I know this is a thing I can't bring
myself to do it yeah and yet as
somebody's doing it to me and I it was
so frequent she must have touched me
you're gonna think I'm kidding 42 times
in the night I mean it was hilarious and
effective okay so let's talk about touch
so uh the reason why touch works is
because it produces oxytocin we also can
self-produce oxytocin so that's why like
if you rub your hands whenever I have
students who are really nervous I say
self-touch and the reason for this is
because you can literally the clean boys
and girls yeah I knew I had to forgive
me I was like do I do it or did I let
him do it I was like softball okay so
yeah I'm practicing being warm you see I
love it I love it self-touch PG right so
you can like rub your arms like this
will literally produce oxytocin um
Justin Bieber does uh havening have you
heard of havening Because of You Yes
okay so uh havening is when we like try
to stimulate our senses you'll notice
you'll often like rub his head I'm not
gonna do it because my hair looks cute
today so I'm not gonna do it today I'm
going to rub our head or you can rub
your arms to literally trigger that
oxytocin I saw it in you were talking
about Justin Bieber and you did a
self-hug and you started doing it on
camera and you actually got lost I'm not
going to do it right now because I'm
worried it's going to lose me it's so
interesting I'm gonna do it okay I'm
doing it too just do it this way you
need to do it and then take a deep
breath
foreign
yeah that
it does feel nice I don't I don't know
if I'm getting it from the touch or I
really When I close my eyes and breathe
deeply
I actually did get full body chills yeah
but like
what yeah what
what don't you feel like we're good I
don't know if it for me if it was the
hug or the deep breath closing my eyes
and deep breathing that alters my
neurochemistry so fast yeah and so
getting into self-soothing for me anyway
is I touch my face so the little tickles
that that gives me it just feels awesome
yes but meditative breathing with my
eyes closed and I remember being so
excited to gift Lisa the power of
meditation and being like Oh my God sit
comfortably close your eyes over your
headphones sound of nature and just
breathe from your diaphragm and the
first breath I ever took like that was
life-changing because it it changed my
neurochemistry so rapidly yes and Lisa
was like this is [ __ ] like I don't
feel anything and I was like what I was
utterly shocked okay so let's talk about
self-soothing for a second because this
is a this is like a powerful kind of
back pocket tool if you've ever been in
a meeting and you blanked out
you want to give yourself a distancing
Behavior or gift yourself a distancing
Behavior the problem is is when you're
in it right so you're in a presentation
you're on stage you're on a video call
you're in a date and you blank out
you're in it usually you're like leaned
in you're lean forward you want to do it
when people make the mistake of doing is
they go further in they go
um
um have you ever seen people like on
stage I've been that person yes yes
they're literally like Trump where is it
and they're trying to get it that is
actually the worst thing you can do
you're actually overloading your
prefrontal cortex by trying to get more
what I want you to actually do is back
up so I want you to give yourself
physical and emotional distance so if
you're in that just take a step back
either sit back or take a step back try
to angle your head back and if you can
even if it's subtle just
that changes the nature of your brain
when you take a step back research has
found that when you literally take a
step back you are able to get more
perspective
so if you ever blank out don't lean and
lean back take a step back take a breath
back grab your water right
right I'm back with you here's what I
was saying that's how I want you to do
it it's super smooth and it actually
helps that reset that's what we're
actually doing for ourselves and if
you're alone of course
you can do the self-touch your super
sternal notch this little Notch right
here between your two collarbones
between between the two colors I don't
find myself touching there but I am
obsessed with where like here yeah I
don't know why as I was reading in the
book I'm like is this a blocking
Behavior am I doing something
subconsciously this is a absolutely a
self-soothing behavior like the reason
why that feels so good and so when we
touch even anywhere in this area
including like our neck it reminds us of
like calm down calm down interesting so
like a very subtle thing this stuff is
so weird it's so weird that we have like
all these weird weird self-touching like
I don't know why we picked all the weird
ones but like this like if I'm not
fiddle with anything I will fiddle with
my neck and I will touch whatever this
part of the collateral is because it
feels so good yeah because you know that
instinctively that's giving you a nice
physiological response of staying calm
anywhere in here is that now touching
your face is something important I just
want to talk about is
um research finds that when we
self-touch especially our face and our
stomach and these I don't know how we're
talking about all the weird ones people
people perceive that as closer to
deception or nervous nervousness I get
but why I think it's because I
obsessively palpate my adipose tissue
around my stomach so basically another
way I pinch my fat
so I do it all the time to see like how
far under the skin is my muscle tone you
have to otherwise you can get out of
control that because I don't weigh
myself so that's my way of knowing like
okay am I in check where am I at and so
but I never thought of it as a soothing
Behavior maybe another reason why
unconsciously I'm doing it but when I
say I do it I do it
60 times a day
talked about this before I did not
notice that I well I'm never gonna do it
on camera and if I'm yeah if you hung
around me long enough you would see me
do it a lot well now I know why though
yeah okay so let's talk about it so I
think the reason why this internally our
brain is like ooh deception is because
Liars want to hold things back and Liars
are typically very nervous in the book
by the way you do some awesome
breakdowns of like here's this famous
person Lance Armstrong Bill Clinton
A-Rod and like you give the moments and
like it's really interesting to watch
back that stuff and like you watch that
you're like oh I didn't see that cute I
like cues hiding in plain sight that's
like my favorite so Liars yes like Lance
Armstrong for example when he was on
Larry King live saying he wasn't doping
spoiler alert
he doped right he lit pursed he pressed
his lips together because he wanted to
like withhold the lie so Liars often
want to withhold because they know lying
gets them into trouble they also are
very nervous they're trying to
self-soothe so they typically touch
their face and there are three areas of
the face that they touch
eyes nose and mouth research has found
this so to maximize getting sick it's
wonderful true and Liars will get sick
more often right well I don't know about
that that's not research claims that's
not research fact but why so um like for
example they found there's like a
Pinocchio's nose effect that when we lie
our nose the tissue in our nose gets a
little bit itchy they found that when we
are lying we want to like block out the
lie so we eye block so when people when
lot when Liars are lying they'll be like
yeah um you know it's it's just been
really hard and
um and they'll fuss at their eyes
because they also have um they want to
block it out with a high blink rate so
Britney Spears some of her early
interviews when she's asked really hard
questions all of a sudden she'll
I mean I I just really wanna I don't
know I just want to talk about that but
the reason that I'm talking about it and
she has this like rapid blink rate and
that is because we're trying to block it
out and the last one is mouth touch liar
is like when I asked my daughter did you
take the cookie she'll go
um no she covers her are you going to
teach her about the strategies and if so
what age
so I've already started teaching the
facial expressions I've already used
them or what you're looking at to spot
them interesting so like for example
she's three and a half wow young oh and
it's so helpful to her because again
control right like I didn't get
confidence naturally but the more that
I've been in control of the cues I'm
sending to others and also
seeing the cues that are being sent to
me the more confident I feel so we're on
the playground and she'll say I want to
play with her or should I go ask him to
play I'll say well look at their face do
they look happy
or do they look sad
and if they look happy and say well she
looks happy why don't you go over and
ask her and then I say look at her face
if she says she's happy and she wants to
play with you she wants to play with you
or does she look sad so we practice the
facial expressions and she knows them
like she knows in in we were watching a
Spanish movie and she doesn't speak
Spanish one day hopefully and she could
say oh why she said why is he sad Mama
because he and even the cartoon
character was showing classic sadness so
sadness is an upside down you so we pull
our mouth down and then we pinch the
corners of eyebrows and we droop our
lids
like that even the cartoon character was
showing that face and she could see he
was sad so I think as young as possible
the whole notion of Frenemies I find
really really intriguing and this is
something certainly that I've dealt with
in my life and it was weird to me how
until I read that that it didn't
register why that would be so Insidious
so with the study what the science says
they did a research study with police
officers and they asked police officers
to identify the amount of toxic people
in their workplace and the amount of
ambivalent people and they found that
the police officers who had more
ambivalent relationships were sick more
often had less happiness at work and
didn't like their job as much then
police officers who had toxic people
just just think about that for a second
and the reason for this is because if
you have a toxic person boundaries are
easy
they ask you to go out to lunch and
you're like no thanks right like you
know it's a no thanks whereas if an
ambivalent person asks you out to lunch
or asked you to their birthday party or
you know ask you to work on something it
takes this mental energy where you have
this thing where you're like oh like
will it be good would I rather eat alone
at my desk or would I rather have lunch
with this person and when it's not
always easy that's an incredible drain
on our emotional energy and if you are
an introvert or an ambivert an ambivert
is someone who is kind of splits between
extroversion and introversion
your energy is finite and our mental
space is finite and this is something
that I did not realize until much more
recently I thought that mental space was
sort of endless right you could learn
forever you could think about things
forever but actually we only have a
certain amount of mental time every day
and if we're dedicating that to trying
to figure out if someone likes us or not
which is a very important thing we all
like to be liked whether we admit it or
not that I think is a waste of mental
energy why would we want to spend it
towards that and that's why I think
ambivalent people are more dangerous do
you have a checklist because I'm like
thinking back to the people that managed
to become Frenemies in my own life it's
kind of scary how long it took me to be
able to put that label on them to like
sort of wake up to the fact that either
they always were or the relationship had
evolved to that like years right years I
know so I don't have a checklist it's
actually just one simple question all
right
are you ever doubting that they're
really happy for you wow that cuts right
to the heart of it I mean that's it and
that that happens actually quite a often
like there are these people who make
these very passive aggressive comments
we were like was that nice or was that
mean if you're ever questioning that
that means they are not truly happy for
you or if you have a piece of really
good news they a really true good friend
will mirror and match that excitement
with you someone who's not as happy for
you will come in with dream killer
questions you know dream Killers oh yeah
yeah dream killer questions are when
they question your success they doubt
the success they think of all the
negatives and dream killers are not
always bad I I have dream killers in my
life and I call them when I need someone
to poke holes in a business idea right
like I'll pitch them because they're
great practice but I know they are not
the people that I go to and I have
something I'm truly excited about I
think that's the only question you have
to ask yourself and it might be An
Inconvenient Truth
like don't answer it off the cuff like
don't answer it really quickly like try
to think of all the times in the last
six months that you've seen them and
shared something did you feel like they
were as happy as you were about your
happiness
yeah and uh
this is this is one of those things that
has made a a big impact in my life
because you can very slowly especially
in business find yourself in a situation
where you don't know who to trust and I
find and maybe it's the psychic energy
like you were talking about emotional
energy
um for me it
it became a question of emotional safety
where when I know you're my enemy I
don't feel emotionally vulnerable oddly
enough even though I know you may
actively be out to get me like I can
handle that yeah yeah it's when I'm like
giving you my neck if you will enough
and every now and then you actually take
a swipe at it and someone's like ah yeah
that's when you lose sleep yeah like yes
literally and you and you sit in bed and
you re-run all the things they've said
or you've said you won't worry about all
the things that could potentially happen
you know we talk about psychic energy I
actually think that we are this is gonna
sound so weird I actually think that we
pick up on more chemically than we
realize yeah talk to me about that okay
so I I don't believe in psychics I don't
believe in psychic energy but I do
believe that things happen beyond our
conscious awareness in this sense so
there was a study that was done that
looked at
um fear so what they did is they took um
participants they had them wear sweat
pads absorbent sweat pads and run on the
treadmill
and the they collected sweat from these
people running on the treadmill then
they had participants wear sweatpads and
jump out of an airplane for a first-time
skydiving experience okay so they had
sweat pads that were just treadmill
sweatpads and they had first skydiving
sweatpads okay same sweat but is it
really then they had participants in a
lab sit in an fmri machine so their
brain was being scanned and smell kind
of gross both pads they did not know
what they were smelling they had no idea
what they were smelling they found that
when participants smelled the fear
sweatpads the skydiving sweatpads their
own fear response activated in their
brain wow
so that means that somehow I think that
we can smell emotions
so if you are with someone and they are
either they do not mean well for you or
they are planning on taking a swipe at
your neck you somehow smell that threat
and even though consciously your brain
is going
maybe they didn't say anything they
didn't do anything their body language
is okay it seems all okay the other part
of your brain the animal part of your
brain which is firing and fear response
or threat response is going no watch out
and that's what keeps you up at night is
your conscious brain wrestling with the
unconscious part of your brain I think
that that's when we talk about being
psychic or having premonitions I think
that that's actually what's happening
we're we're smelling or picking up on
things that we don't even realize yeah
that's crazy and just for clarity's sake
when I said psychic energy that means
psychic okay okay I also think it's nuts
okay
uh that's yeah that is incredibly
interesting I was going to add the other
aspect of this is um like facial
structure
um there's a part in the book that had
I'm obsessed were you able to sort of
see the faces were you able to see them
yes and I like to think yeah that I'm
like Jedi level at cool slicing cool
okay just from the amount of
interviewing that I've done like I'm
totally obsessed with this question of
how much and it scares me because I
think I actually have like a I
definitely have resting [ __ ] face so
let's start with that yeah and then on
top of that like yeah when I would
explain to people
uh like what the inside thing is hey
you're walking in a dark alley and you
turn around and you see like this little
lady and she seems so sweet like you
thin slice immediately not a threat my
brain immediately used the example but
if you turn around and see me you're
gonna get freaked out and I thought
I have like a face that like I would
then sliced poorly like I wake up
loving kind individual okay okay so I
don't think you're wrong see something
and you're like this is what you're
sorry I'm so sorry I know oh fair I'm
not Inconvenient Truth but let me
explain why why please okay so um there
is some evidence and again we there's a
lot of research needs to debate on this
but I find it fascinating about in the
womb
babies are exposed to Mother's hormones
so that could be testosterone that could
be estrogen that could be any any
different variety of things and those
change or turn on different genes in the
baby so for example if a baby was
exposed to a lot of testosterone
prenatally they're going to develop more
masculinized feature both men and women
so we know a face is very masculine if
they have a very very square jaw if they
have the presence of stubble if they
have flat eyebrows and or slightly
hooded eyebrows that's your face okay
okay
no no it's it's a it's a good thing it's
a good thing because it's a very
masculinized face so what you that is
100 right so in the book I have um
computer Graphics of incompetent faces
to competent faces dominant not dominant
faces to dominant
um not competent to competent and then I
think it's trustworthy not trustworthy
trustworthy so you fall very high on the
dominance scale so if someone turned
around you were in a back alley you look
very masculinized which means that you
have a lot of testosterone and people
including men with more testosterone are
going to be you know more powerful have
sorter temper all these things so it's
about the shape of your jaw it's about
the hooding of your eyebrows that and in
the presence of subtle and you wear
stubble yeah yeah so this is I think
this is a good thing I think this is a
good thing does it help that if the
little old lady turns around and I
actually worry about it like I distance
my like if I find myself and I know this
woman is gonna have a heart attack she
turns around like so I'll start slowing
down or I'll walk like over to the side
and fast so she can see hi yeah yeah
yeah I try to do my neutral goofy face
which let me see it
how is it it's like the arched eyebrows
like I try to like half smile and I feel
like such a dumbass no no but I'm like I
have seen photos so I used to do speech
and debate in high school oh yeah and
one time like I crushed it I was so
excited and I got the review back and it
was like uh dude what is wrong try not
to look so angry and I was like what
like I literally and so I read it
something they're like yeah dude can you
like put your head down and then look up
you look like a serial killer yeah yeah
I was like what so literally I go I go
in the bathroom I tilt my head down and
I look up yeah yeah oh my God
what the hell do we do that to a camera
because that is it that is
yeah that's when I really yeah that's
intense I'm like that's fine yeah so
yeah and but now you know why right you
know it's the shape of your jaw in your
face so you what you did is perfect you
optimized how you were naturally wired
right okay right so it's show me your um
when did you call it your goofy silly
face my goofy neutral face can I see
your goofy neutral face again
okay okay perfect okay can I explain why
this works from a scientific reflection
okay so when we raise our eyebrows up it
is the universal sign of Interest or
engagement for example if I were in a
bar and go
you would know what I meant or if I were
to be listening and be like oh you would
know that means I'm like literally
trying to see more right it's like the
invocation of that so with your eyebrows
up it changes the shape of that hooded
look right so when you're like this this
is a very high testosterone when you're
when your eyebrows are hooded so when
you push them up not only does it show
openness engagement curiosity say hi it
also takes away the hooding and then you
also slightly opened your mouth a little
bit that also softens your jaw so in a
way that takes your face and just makes
it more open
I think that this is something I think
this is actually a very good thing
because I think it's part of the reasons
why you were so successful wow we like
people who are very powerful who have
high testosterone we like it for both
men and women so your look
shows intensity it shows strength it
shows power so never be angry at how you
are wired your genetics how your face
looks because that is I think a huge
contributor to your success I feel that
way with everyone we all have things
about our face about our personality
about our body about that we don't like
but I think that if we can frame it as
this has been an aspect or it can be an
aspect of our success that's extremely
important for example I also have
resting [ __ ] face shall we particularly
critique myself I think I was critiquing
you so I should critique myself as well
so I have resting [ __ ] face and the
reason for this is because my feature is
angled downwards so um at rest this is
me at rest
foreign
I'm just like oh like I'm I'm bored I'm
upset and that is because my lips when I
when they're at rest angle slightly
downwards and my eyes also angle
slightly downwards even if I'm totally
neutral to angled down so I know that I
can look very very serious that has also
helped me because I am a science
researcher right like it's very
important for me to look like I'm taking
things seriously as I am so when I want
to be more on or engaged you'll notice
that I actually do my makeup a very
specific way I don't know you if you can
see my makeup so I angle up and I also
um put my shadow a little bit above my
brow bone a little bit above my eye to
bring my eyes up that is because I know
that's going to make me look a little
happier a little less sad a little less
intense so this is something that I know
about myself but I don't think that
that's a bad thing it's just something
that I know I have to counteract a
little bit all right so I want to go
back to radical honesty so what does
that look like like what are you
actually saying to your friends in
particular so this means that that
instead of making up an excuse I will
just tell them the real reason I don't
want to do something so for example um a
good friend of mine was like
um hey I'm I have this networking event
that I'm throwing it's with a bunch of
women in Oregon I live in Portland you
should definitely come and do a little
speaking thing and it'll be really great
instead of me saying oh I'm really busy
or I don't really I don't have time for
it right now I was like hey I do
terribly at really big loud networking
events you don't want me there like I
get really anxious like it's really hard
for me is there any way that we could do
a luncheon instead where we're like
around a table where we can like talk
sort of in a more quiet environment so
instead of making up some excuse I
actually will tell them the real reason
why I do or don't want to do something
and then we try to work around it what
does that look like at work at work oh
so um we have a wonderful team so we're
about six people in our lab and we have
120 science people trainers so our
trainers are body language trainers and
they do my curriculum and there are
different cities around the world so
basically what this means is we have a
very direct task management system so I
think that is incredibly important with
your team to a know their personality
Matrix so I know everyone on my team
their personality Matrix and also how
they like to receive feedback and how
they like to brainstorm
so for example let's say that I have an
idea and I want to do a big
brainstorming session I like to
brainstorm out loud but I know that two
of my team members do not
so they might say to me if we're in a
big brainstorming session I'm like any
ideas any ideas it's like crickets they
would say to me and they would have
complete permission to do so hey Vanessa
um would there be any way that you could
write down these ideas give us about a
week to kind of prepare something and
then we could get back together next
Friday I'm not really ready to
brainstorm right now instead of having a
really lame drawn out 50-minute session
where no one's really throwing around
any ideas so it's a much faster way to
speak to our natural orientations in the
workplace or on our team
talk to me about identifying primary
values and what they are so that you
know how to better deal with people yeah
so I I was always fascinated by
motivation in the workplace especially
how do you motivate a partner how do you
motivate a colleague how do you appeal
to their interests I talk about this in
the book a little bit I always thought
that with colleagues the biggest
motivation was money right salary
perks bonuses I thought that was sort of
most the reason why you work you
hopefully work for a little bit of
passion as well but you're getting sort
of just trying to pay the bills and so I
had one of my employees who was doing an
amazing job and I was like you know what
I'm going to give her a raise and a
bonus she's been doing such a good job
so I it was I had to move around some
things budget wise but I really wanted
to show her how appreciative I was we
get together and um I say I'm so excited
I meant I would love to give you a raise
and a bonus and she was like thanks
and I was like that's it yeah that's
that's all and then I discovered This
research on resource Theory and so
resource Theory says that every
interaction every relationship is a
transaction
I know that sounds really terrible but
actually it's a very honest very
radically honest way of think of looking
at relationships and there are six
different resources that we all give and
take these are different in the Love
Languages this is resources one of them
is money and that's the one that we
think about a lot we talk about a lot
but what I found out is this particular
employee her primary value was actually
status how did you find that out so when
I when I realized she was sort of kind
of like a lackluster response she was
literally you do the thing lackluster
response you're feeling a little bit I
feel I feel terrible I actually feel
terrible because I went out of the way
to make budget for her and I also really
wanted to thank her for her amazing work
and so when she was like not happy I was
like you had to read through not the lie
but like she was saying thank you yay
negative non-verbal right I was seeing
so when we're talking about nonverbal
there's either micro micro advantages or
micro negatives micro advantages micro
advantages or micronegatives so give me
an example yeah so like a micro
Advantage is if you ask a good question
I would be like nodding you I'd like
smile I'd be like oh that's great I'd
widen my eyebrows those are all micro
advantages I'm giving you to say I love
that question a micro negative this is
what you probably pick up on without
realizing it are all the things people
do when they don't like a question so
maybe they lean back back maybe they
make a um
face maybe they pinch their eyebrows
together maybe they
crinkle their nose up at you they might
turn their head away and bite their
nails those are all micronegatives so I
noticed that she wasn't showing any
micro advantages and a couple of
micronegatives which is the exact
opposite of what you would expect if you
just told someone that they got a raise
so I felt terrible I felt terrible also
because I was worried that she was
unhappy and did you notice it right
there right there and then right in the
moment yeah and now that I hopefully
just taught that to you guys I'm very
curious if you now start seeing them
right away the nice thing about body
language is it doesn't take a long time
once you know what to look for you see
it all the time so I noticed it right
away and I was like oh okay well um you
know it will be in your next month's
paycheck and I'm just so grateful thank
you so much for all your hard work I've
really appreciated your work and she's
like oh yeah it was my pleasure I love
the size people okay we're good but I
felt terrible because I was worried that
she didn't like her job
because I was like what else could be
the reason what else could be the reason
I was like oh my gosh she's thinking
about quitting my minor autism went
crazy minor autism was like she's gonna
quit she hates me she hates science
people right like I went all the way
down that route and so when I stumbled
upon this study that maybe I was looking
into motivation I was like reading a
white paper on employee engagement and
employee motivation because I was
worried about losing her
I found this resource Theory and I was
like wait a minute so status
and I started to think back to the times
when she showed a lot of micro
advantages and one of the times was when
we created an about our team page and I
put pictures of each person on the page
she was so excited she was like oh I'm
gonna go get a new head shot I can't
wait like she showed me like 15
headshots she's like which one has the
best body language she was so excited
and I was like I I didn't think much of
it at the time but I was like I wonder
if that status so I had a meeting with
her and I said radically honest I was
like you know I offered you a raise last
month because I'm so appreciative of
your work I don't know if that was what
you wanted is that what you wanted is
that if that if I want to show you how
grateful I am for you what way can I do
that for you here at work and she said
actually you know I really have been
wanting a director role
it's like great let's talk about a
director rule let's get you on a plan
where we look at titles so I didn't
realize that there was all these other
things like putting her name on the
website putting her in more YouTube
videos with me I didn't realize that
that was actually a huge give and so
easy for me to give because I am so
grateful for her and so for me like it
was like I was so thankful that we were
able to get very quickly very honestly
to what her value was I think this is
the big challenge is figuring out yours
and then also trying to figure out every
single person that you work with
including your friends and family so
what's interesting though is the biggest
shock for me from your book was how I
felt like I had never categorized myself
in such a clearer way yeah so what do
you do when the person doesn't know yeah
so you are their decoder and I think
that is the most fun role that we can
play in life so if you have someone who
is not as self-aware right like they
they don't know they hadn't thought
about it that way you get this amazing
gift of being able to unlock for and
with them
I think and that's a lot of
responsibility but I think that is one
of the most amazing gifts we can give
our fellow human beings what I would do
if I were you
I would go through the series of Arthur
Aronson uh 34 questions every couple
should answer ah so this is a really
interesting study
um that this researcher wanted to find
out how we get to love and he found that
there are three different tiers of
relationships so in the first phase of a
relationship we're just trying to figure
out interests so it's like you know do
you like that I like that too what's
your hobby
um and personality traits that's the
first level that's also why I built the
first level The Matrix 2 personality the
second level are values which is why the
next levels are around appreciation
levels and values so you're trying to
figure out you know where does this
person what do they mean what do they
stand for and the last one is how you
relate to them like how their um how
your relationships can match up
so he developed a set of 34 questions to
ask to take you through all three levels
through just these questions alone so we
actually have a list of them I can send
you a list of them you can we can do
them together if you want one day and
you actually go through each of these
Converse your these questions and they
will take you through not only you
getting to know yourself but also them
doing a self-exploratory exercise it is
the most amazing two three five hours
you will ever spend with someone going
through these questions and that's I
think how we guide someone to self-know
themselves and if you can it's it's
amazing to do them all in one session
but it's a lot especially if you have
someone who's more introverted so I
think it's very important to respect
People's Natural orientations so if
someone is an introvert that means
they're going to use less words than the
average day it means they're more
private and it means they like to think
through their answers before saying them
extroverts usually don't want don't need
any thinking time before they before
they share in fact they tend to
verbalize out loud so they verbalize
outwardly so if you have an introvert I
would highly recommend sending the
questions ahead of time so they can
think about them it's a nice way to
respect their personality and or doing a
few at a time I love that yeah what's
one thing that people typically don't
know about themselves that you think
everybody should know about themselves
actually it's something we briefly
touched on earlier we didn't get to talk
about how you self-soothe
so everyone should know two aspects of
self-soothing the first is
um
when you are in anxiety whether you're a
hydrotic or a loanerotic do you like to
ver do you like to worry outward do you
verbalize your worry or do you shut down
and close down
so when I am very worried I like to be
alone with my journal like I don't want
to talk to anyone I just want to like
think about it myself whereas other
people like to worry with others right
like they like to talk through their
worry and that makes them feel calm so
that's the first thing is how do you
worry do you worry alone or do you worry
with others that's going to be very
important so if you're in one of those
really terrible low points we all hit
those points you know exactly which
direction you need to do is it out to
drinks with friends you know do you have
your your Brigade that you call or is it
home with a journal and a big glass of
wine those are two very different paths
that's the first thing and the second
thing is how can the people in your life
help you self-soothe
I think that I don't I think this might
be more of a gender thing I don't know a
lot of females a lot of women in my life
when they're very very anxious they
don't know how to ask for help
both logistically and emotionally
what do you mean how do you legit so
there's two ways of asking for help and
maybe my women in the room will kind of
this feels familiar you look so
intriguing yeah okay so when a woman is
upset about something and some men too
um usually there's a logistical issue
right like let's say that it's in-laws
coming for the weekend and they get very
stressed out there's logistical issues
but there's also emotional issues they
are different
logistical the emotional is actually
we'll break it down even more more
closely so logistical
um got to get the guest room ready gotta
do all the sheets gotta prep the towels
got to clean the house so my
father-in-law doesn't critique it okay
those are those are logistical words
think about once he starts critiquing it
and they're already in the house so yeah
but I'm with you yeah yeah and women are
all thinking about that way ahead of
time and then the four emotional worries
might be
um how to make sure that they actually
like the house how to make sure that
we're all going to get along this
weekend how to make sure that we bring
up that issue about health that we
really need to talk about and how do we
make sure that we actually have a
relaxing weekend and it's actually a
good time okay those are eight issues
that usually come up around everything
there's all different issues but there
are totally different ways that we
self-soothe so logistical how do you who
do you ask for help and how do you ask
for help right like is it going to your
husband or your kids or your best friend
and for most emotional issues do you
want to sort of take a few moments take
a few hours meditate do your thing go
for a run you know eat really healthy
that day to get yourself in the right
mind space or do you want to go out with
friends have a really blowout night and
like kind of work out all your anxiety
before they come if you don't know that
you are going to set yourself up for
failure and you're also setting up the
people in your life for failure so the
biggest mistake that I think couples
fight about they have the same fights
over and over again is they need to ask
for help but they have no idea how to
ask for it
um and by the way if you don't go
through this that's how you get complete
breakdowns because they've been it's
just bottling it up they don't know
where to go right and that's how you get
someone who's like yelling and running
around before everyone shows up to try
to get things fixed when actually
they're really worried about the
emotional stuff and the questions that
you just walked us through are the
questions they should be asking
themselves yes so very specifically
whatever it is and you do this when
you're in a point of calm right not when
you're already in the worry yeah so how
do I worry right do I worry out loud do
I worry by myself who can help me and
how can they help and what are the
differences between my emotional and
logistical worries because they are
different at the end if we know that
about ourselves we can then ask for help
in better ways and it sets up everyone
in our life for a much more harmonious
relationships oh yeah that's fantastic
so most of what we've talked about today
is in your book which is amazing read
this book
um but there's one thing that I've heard
you mention which is a two-year study
you're doing on happiness which you
didn't talk about the book didn't yeah
do you have any nuggets that you're
ready to talk about yeah so I have been
researching happiness for a long time
and that is because
um I have always been intrigued by my
own happiness levels and I felt like I
always had a base point like I always
felt like you know I was sort of at a
set point and it was I couldn't go two
points above or two points below that
set point I wanted to know if there was
ways to hack happiness so we've been
studying happiness for the past two or
three years at our lab so I think the
most important thing that I have learned
so far and I'm going to put out more
research on this is this idea of learned
helplessness
so there's this horrible study it was
done by Martin Seligman it's horrible
can I share it yeah okay the city well
okay yeah so um this study look took
dogs
and they put the dogs into a cage with a
mat that just very lightly shocked them
and so the dogs would get on the mat and
they would kind of shock them very
unpleasant experience
they put them in these cages with these
shocking mats and then they changed the
cage so that there was a space next to
the mat the dog could move off the mat
the problem is the dogs had been on a
shocking mat for a long time just gave
up they never went off the mat in fact
they just sat and took the shocks even
though they could move off the mat
whereas the dogs that didn't ever see
the map before immediately jumped off
the mat and went to the place that
didn't get the shocks
the idea of this is that we end up
learning about our helplessness so when
it comes to happiness we might have
learned a pattern in college or in
childhood or in our 20s or when we were
broke when we were out of a job or
whatever that was and because even
though the Math's not there anymore even
though the shocks aren't there anymore
we stay in the same position because
that's how we've always learned to be
and so when it comes to happiness way
more than personality way more than
decoding people I think that we can
absolutely change our entire happiness
orientation I think we can unlearn our
helplessness to learn to help ourselves
that sounds amazing when are you gonna
start putting stuff out on that so I
have one course on that already it's
called The Power of happiness and it's
like a it's 10 different steps that
we've just started learning about
um but I will give you one just to start
off with right now
and it's this it's um call I call the
skill the chart of happiness
so we end up thinking that happiness
comes with the big vacation once a year
or the big blowout things once every
month we don't realize that actually
happiness comes in these very very small
moments every day and actually that is
those are the happiness moments we have
to savor so what I'd highly recommend is
for the next few days sit down and make
a chart of everything that you do in
your life down to making a steaming hot
cup of coffee down to going for a run
down to doing laundry and then I want
you to rank each of those things on
how happy they make you and I I don't
mean like happiness like euphoric
I mean like happiness like content with
your life like I am content doing this
and this sounds crazy but even like
laundry or cooking something we often
think of as a chore can provide a
certain amount of contentedness if you
look at that look at it that way so I'm
going to rate all of those skills and
then I want you to count up the number
of hours you spend on each of those
skills every day
what you'll end up finding is you end up
doing what I call Happy math happy math
is basically looking at the fact that we
end up spending the majority of our week
you know 90 of our week doing tasks that
rank as a one or two or three not very
happy on the happy scale and we end up
having these really small once a week
moments where we're actually happy
but really they're these small little
moments it's it's having that amazing
cup of coffee or um taking in your view
from your window or whatever these
little small things those minutes add up
and I think it's about slowly hacking
how can you add in more and more of
those minutes
um here's another kind of tip on the
happiness stuff that I just realized
would be a really easy one to try so I
kind of talked about these little
moments of Happiness there's also these
little moments of unhappiness that as
humans we can't help but infect our
entire life so you know how when you're
sitting in a red light and you literally
question your entire existence is that
anyone does that ever happen anymore
sure yeah
um so you know you're sitting in a red
light and you're like why do I sit in
traffic why do I drive to work why do I
do what I work why am I doing this maybe
I should quit my job maybe I should move
to Hawaii maybe I should have a car like
that's like what happens you know so one
of the hacks that I have found works
really well is taking those small
moments and turning them into what I
call gratitude totems so a totem is like
a symbol or something to remind you of
something so I have a red light by my
house that I get stopped at every single
day it doesn't even matter what time of
day and I used to yell at this red light
I would curse at it and then I realized
wait a minute like this light causes me
so much unhappiness I have such a hard
time being grateful like every open
magazine ever says be more grateful who
has time to be grateful right like no
one has time to do that but now I have
time so whenever I am stopped at that
red light
for the entire red light I think about
every single thing I'm grateful for and
now I get upset if I do not hit it
because I know that every time I pull up
to that red light I have a minute and a
half just think about all the things I'm
grateful for check I got my gratitude
off I feel nice and good I flipped a
very unhappy moment for me that makes me
question driving and cars and my life
and turned it into something that
actually makes me very appreciative that
is brilliant your Envy is always kind of
exaggerated because you're beginning
from a place of insecurity you're
beginning from a place of inferiority
where you're primed to feel envious of
people like that so it's almost starting
with you you're almost projecting onto
them there's Superior qualities