Kind: captions
Language: en
[Music]
Jay Shetty welcome back to the show Tom
it's good to be back it is always good
to have you man tell me what is the
secret that you've learned from monks on
how to master yourself I think one of
the first things that I'd suggest and
explain to people is that when I lived
as a monk a lot of the wisdom that we
studied and the Eastern literatures that
we spent time Excavating
those were not aimed at monks those were
just aimed at Humanity when they were
written when they were written they
weren't talking about The Vedas correct
what are The Vedas exactly so The Vedas
a 5 000 year old texts that literally
talk about everything from
ayurveda which is the science of health
so Veda means wisdom or science of and
so ayurveda is the science of Life the
science of Health uh you have uh their
own version of vastuveda which is
closest to feng shui so like how to
design your home how to set up different
things around your home for purposeful
Aesthetics you have the science of
warfare in The Vedas wow yeah so there's
a whole text dedicated how do you
reconcile that you reconcile that in the
sense of there's
knowledge and wisdom on how to properly
do each aspect with Integrity with
purpose from a point of protection
recognizing I think me and you can
probably Vibe with this the idea that we
all want a world I think we'd all like a
world that has no war but if we live in
a world pretending that there is none of
that and then we're not prepared for it
that sets us up worse and I think
whether you look at that on the macro of
war or you look at on the micro of
anxiety or stress or pressure
if we pretend that stress doesn't exist
it doesn't make it go away it doesn't
make it better but being prepared for it
actually allows us to potentially avoid
it potentially navigate it with more
integrity and authenticity and today I
feel like when you don't have codes for
difficult things in society you see
people make really bad mistakes you see
people not having a code book or a rule
book on leadership and that's what it
leads to you see people not having a
code book or rule book on how to
navigate war and therefore people do
what they feel like and so I find that
well The Vedas were trying to do was
give you a set of code and a set of
rules and a set of limits so that you
would be more controlled and more more
greed less more negative desire Less in
those situations so that you wouldn't be
pulled into something by your ego but
you could actually go back to something
that would help you get there to get the
best result for people in humanity and I
think that's what's so special about The
Vedas that ultimately it's dedicated to
uplifting Humanity through each of these
different things that we experience in
life it was really interesting to hear
you talk about the part in I think it
was in The Vedas about the guy who has
to prepare for war and you're talking
about even good people have to learn how
to fight found that really interesting
but the book starts with Solitude yes
why Solitude because that was the part
where I was like okay here's where the
monk part is coming into this and I
think it's pretty important for people
to be able to be alone before they try
to get into a relationship yeah I think
we've created this feeling in society
where loneliness is the enemy like being
alone is seen as a weakness
so when someone goes to school and
throws a birthday party and not many
people show up you're unpopular whereas
if lots of people showed up you were
really important you were significantly
brutal I can think of few things that
would be more devastating to a kid than
no one showing up to your birthday
exactly and that's how it's framed
that's how it's talked about and then
the next thing is like would you tell
your kids if they if they went to have a
birthday party and nobody shut up Jay
would you really be like hey Solitude is
a good thing like how would you well I'm
not dad so I I can't say but but what I
would say is that I would change it in
the invite process
so I would ask them to only invite
people that they felt really connected
to or they felt they really vibed with
them wanted to celebrate their birthday
with so I think the challenge is when
you're a kid you also hand out way too
many invites so I think that's what ends
up happening is that you think a good
birthday party is a packed room and even
I mean people still feel that till
they're 50 60 70 like that is until
they're dead until they're dead right
like you feel a good birthday party or a
good event even when people say like
when I die like if there's loads of
people there that will be a thing I
think we've just programmed ourselves to
believe that if we're not surrounded by
people we can't celebrate and we can't
be celebrated it has to be about scale
of how many people are there and I would
say that's one measurement but the other
measurement is the depth of how well
they know you I know tons of people who
threw a great birthday party at 50 500
people showed up and they feel actually
I went I actually I went to a birthday
party this year it was a big birthday
party and I was speaking to the person
whose party it was and they were like so
many people invited people I didn't know
to my birthday party and they felt
lonely at their own birthday party
I don't want if I have had kids I
wouldn't want them to feel that and even
for myself I don't want to be in that
position I'd rather have
I saw this thing on um Instagram and it
was someone who posted like it was like
a temp this is an um British currency it
was like 10 pence and then one pound and
so 10 pence is larger circumference
than the pound but the pound is greater
in value and so the the caption on
Instagram said that my circle has shrunk
in size but has increased in value and I
was thinking that that to me resembles
the kind of life I would want for myself
and for my children if I had them but if
I could have both that would be amazing
obviously but I don't know how real it
is to be able to say we can have both so
I think what I'm trying to say with
Solitude is that
if there isn't a sense that I am happy
with myself with my own company with the
thoughts that circle around in my mind
imagine how complex that is when you add
another confused individual who's not
happy with their thoughts not happy with
who they are not happy with their mind
and now in a relationship you're putting
two confused people together why is
there pain why is there fall out why is
there so much disappointment in a
relationship in my opinion and from the
perspective of the Eastern studies is
that because there's an internal
dissatisfaction in both people that
they're not bringing to each other
and so the strength of solitude is using
that time
I've still not found a better solution
for self-awareness than Solitude
because in solitude it's the only place
you get to hear your own voice
and make sense of other people's
opinions if I'm standing in the middle
of a group of 100 people and they're all
yelling their opinions at me chances are
some of them are going to rub off some
of them are contagious some of them I'm
going to reject and I don't get the
space and time to make sense of what's
my voice and what's noise whereas when I
get time
to myself
I get the opportunity to reflect on and
introspect and go do I want that thought
to be mine
how does that fit into my life how do I
feel about this right you get to have
that dialogue with yourself and I feel
we've lost the art of self-tile
self-talk and self-dialogue
well let's go into it so what what is
that art like the if you put a human
being in solitary confinement you will
break them in a deep and fundamental and
scary way that I wouldn't have predicted
that seems very weird to me
I know it to be true not because I've
experienced it but because you just hear
it over and over and over and over like
if you really wanted to destroy the
human Spirit isolate them
so how is it that we take this thing
that will on a long enough timeline
absolutely decimate you and make it
something that becomes the most profound
setup for self-awareness what do you
have to do in that Solitude yeah so the
first thing I'd say is that it would
decimate you if you go into it 24 hours
a day and that's not what we're
recommending here right I'm not telling
someone to 24 hours be in solitude for a
year like that's not my recommendation
my recommendation is in your week there
has to be at least one hour that you
spend by yourself and in that hour
you're not watching a show you're not
reading a book you're not uh on your
phone scrolling so you're not
distracting yourself with anything or
stimulating yourself with anything
external and you're sitting there and
just observing your thoughts now one
hour is going to seem like a long time
in the beginning but I'm saying one hour
would be great in a week if you're
starting that at 10 minutes that's
brilliant that's enough but the goal is
it enough like are you being kind are
you trying to let people off the hook
are you worried about people flaming you
in the comments like you meditate two
hours a day yeah I'm not mistaken yes so
what should people do for real
I do believe that 10 minutes is a good
place to start because I do feel that
they shouldn't stay there you shouldn't
stay at 10 minutes it should grow I
think I look at it as like when you do a
cold plunge right for the first time so
the first time I did a cold plunge I was
doing it with a friend and they were
they've been already doing it for a long
time and I didn't want to walk on like I
couldn't do it and so I stayed in
hypothermia yeah so I stayed in there
for longer than I wanted to the first
time I did it so if I did it myself the
first time I think I would have been
there for 30 seconds the first time I
did it ever for five minutes because I
was in there with someone who was in
this we're fully similar at five minutes
it was great for Lisa was up to here
right I'm not fully submerged and so
when I look at that and I look at
something that I found challenging when
I did it
I was like if someone who told me I had
to be in there for 10 minutes the first
time I did it I potentially would never
have got in right and the idea that I
could have started with 30 seconds and
built myself up to three minutes and
then built myself up to five minutes I
really do like that process and I think
you have to and this is self-awareness
again you have to know whether you're
someone who likes to be thrown in the
deep end or whether you're someone who
likes to build up incrementally I'm
generally someone who jumps into the
deep end so I was pushed in for five
minutes and that works for me because
for me I'm the kind of person who needs
to be pushed off to break the mental
barrier to then go back and build a
habit that's my self-awareness I became
a monk in order to learn these things
I'm an extreme person that's how I learn
and build habits but someone else goes
to me actually Jay I like meditating for
five minutes a day and it works for me
and now I have confidence I can do 10
minutes a day I can do 15. and I love
that so I don't think it's an either or
I genuinely don't that's not a cop-out I
think you have to know who you are and
so if I want to learn something I'll
schedule the whole weekend
if I wanted to learn archery I would set
up archery classes for eight hours a day
all weekend I wouldn't learn it by doing
archery once a week because I want to
figure out whether I'm deeply interested
and care about this enough to actually
commit to it weekly but that's my
mindset that's who I am so I think the
first thing I say is 10 minutes alone
every week where you sit and you just
observe your thoughts
and write down every thought that comes
up this is weird
I hate this it's boring
oh I can't believe Jay and Tom told me
to do this right like whatever else is
coming up and write it down and just
become comfortable becoming aware of
your thoughts and what you find is that
the first time you do this it is just
going to be random noise like that what
shall I eat tonight what's going on it's
just going to be that stuff it might be
I hate this I'm uncomfortable this is
not fun I'm bored like it will just be
natural dialogue like that what you'll
find is the next time you do it or the
next after a couple of times that you do
it you now might start asking
interesting questions you might now
start noticing a pattern of thoughts
that repeats itself like I've just been
thinking for a week about what that
person said to me about how I look or
I've been thinking about what that
person said to me about
something I did online like and it's
just been in my mind and it keeps
repeating itself now you're going to
start to find what you spend most your
time on so studies show we have 60 to 80
000 thoughts per day and eighty percent
of them are negative and eighty percent
of them are repetitive so if our life is
not transforming our thoughts now if I
ask you what are you thinking about
you're a self-aware person I'm pretty
sure you could tell me at any given
moment what you're thinking about you
ask most people what they're thinking
about
the reaction will be an emotion like I'm
just stressed I've got too much on at
the moment but we can't be really clear
so what this is giving you is a Clarity
of what are those repeating negative
thoughts and how do we want to change
them so that's Step One is a even
becoming aware of the thoughts so if I
ask an average person when you wake up
in the morning what's the first thought
you have oh I'm tired that's the first
thought for most people you finally made
it to Coffee you add your morning coffee
and you're thinking God I hope this
coffee gets through me through the day
because I'm so tired second time you've
had the door you get to lunch time
you're like God is it only lunchtime
like and I can't even eat lunch because
I'm busy working God I'm so tired you
get the 6 p.m maybe you've got to work
an extra hour because no one finishes
work at six anymore seven PM you finish
you're good I'm exhausted I can't wait
to get home you get home and somehow at
11 37 PM you get the courage to watch
another episode and you repeat the cycle
right that's a six thoughts in the same
day as people get that awareness though
what what do you want them to do with it
or that sounds the right what is the
effective thing to do with it if you're
trying to better yourself in whatever
whether it's love or something else but
if you're trying to make progress and
not just document like where do you go
with that yeah so we want to disrupt
that algorithm right that pattern that's
been developed just stop thinking
negative [ __ ] no so we're not going to
do that what we're going to do is we're
going to say I am tired we're going to
take that thought
we're okay with that we're good with
that
I'm going to sleep early tonight
so it's I'm accepting the thought that
I'm feeling I'm not going to wake up and
never feel I'm tired I mean I wake up
and feel I'm tired sometimes but I'll
let you go I'm tired I'm going to cancel
my plans for the weekend
I've done that so many times where I've
had the busiest week at work I'm tired I
can feel that I'm stressed I'm even
getting a bit Snappy with my wife like I
can feel all those things and I look at
my weekend and my weekend is decked with
social events and I go to Rodney I'm
like I'm about to cancel everything this
weekend because I don't think I have the
resilience to get through but if I
didn't give myself that and all I keep
saying all week is I'm tired then it
gets to the weekend my friends are
coming and I'm like God I wish they
wouldn't come in today then they leave
and I'm like oh God I'm so relieved that
they left I wish they would have left
earlier right it's like all negativity
just brewing and so what I'm saying is
accept the feeling
and what are you going to do about it
yeah that's that's the question I was
asking myself is and now what and now
what this bad thing has happened and now
what and if this then that like if I get
tired during the week then I will cancel
my plans on the weekend if I have
weekend plans that are really important
I'll sleep early on the weeknights so
that I'm ready for it so like this week
I'm with you I've got something every
night this week every night there's an
event so I know that this weekend needs
to be restful I just gave myself
permission to do nothing for four days
it was beautiful because my other days
have been so busy but if I'm not having
time to structure and think about these
things you're literally running from one
thing to another so I feel like people
are chasing peace
people are chasing peace not realizing
that when they slow and still and make
that space they then learn how to find
peace so people are looking for peace in
the meditation that's not how it works
the meditation creates the space for you
to figure out how to create peace in
your life that's that's where the peace
is that's interesting so my experience
with meditation is that is where I get
literal peace so I started meditating
because I was going through a really
stressful period of my life as years ago
and it was just misery at a physical
level and so I thought I've got to find
some way to de-escalate my Stress and
Anxiety I've been told a thousand times
by people to meditate let me actually
try this so I try it and at a
physiological level I just lowered my
stress and my anxiety and I was like
this is amazing
I've since tried to get like my wife for
instance to use it it doesn't hit her in
the same way that it hit me but the the
piece came for me in breathing from my
diaphragm it was so physiological and
it's the older I get the more content I
create the more I realize that I'm all
tactics like I just know how to
translate the Airy stuff into and go do
this yes and so I'm curious do you if
you just sat and meditated you're saying
that's not going to bring you peace you
have to solve this riddle of all these
pieces bouncing around in your mind I'll
take back the categoric way I said that
so I guess what I was leaning towards is
I'm not saying that meditating itself
can't be a peaceful experience but I
feel a lot of people who have stressed
out busy lives are just looking for a
break from it and it can provide that
but sometimes it can't because you're
too stressed and busy and a lot of the
times a healthy way of using meditation
is to make sense offensive stuff so that
you can go back to your life and apply
it so for some people it is peace and
that's fair and I agree I I do find
peace and meditation but for some people
it's giving them that break and that gap
between experience and reaction it's
giving them that gap between stress and
struggle that allows them to reorient
themselves and say this is what I need
to switch this is what I need to move
and I feel maybe you're someone that
does that anyway and does that naturally
and then meditation can become just what
it is and give you that peace but I feel
that for a lot of people just sitting
there with their thoughts is stressful
just observing because they don't know
what to do with it I think I think first
of all there's a big fear around it
right it's just we're scared I don't
understand that at all what are people
scared of well I mean it's the same way
saying like why are people scared of
sitting in cold water right like that I
get because it sucks it does suck but
but so what I'm saying is people that
I've talked to who struggle with their
thoughts make those things because they
don't know what to do with them like the
cold thing
it's e so look I'm gonna have a massive
physiological response yeah not fun I'm
doing it for reasons so I do it I can
stop doing it at any time yeah but a
thought doesn't have to be painful in
the way that cold exposure like even Wim
Hof says I don't like being cold I do it
because it serves a purpose but even he
says that the loss of love was more
painful than any of the qualities been
through right like that thought of
losing someone you love
is far greater than the pain of sitting
in which is you think that's like the
background thing that's really messing
with people yeah like I feel like I was
even talking to uh I was even talking to
Amar from the s Theory I don't know if
you've have you ever had them I know yes
Siri but I've never yeah so they do
loads of crazy stuff too right and
they've gone and so I was talking to
Amar who's one of the S3 guys they're
awesome guys and he was saying to me
that
so this is really fascinating and I love
where we're going with this by the way
and please keep going because this I
could only have this conversation with
you so I'm very happy right now uh the
thing about what Ahmad was saying is
that he said the whole point of yes
theory was saying yes to crazy stuff
that we wouldn't say yes to
and that's how it started and he goes we
got to a point where saying yes to crazy
stuff was not difficult anymore so now
when we said yes to doing something
crazy next year we actually didn't find
that uncomfortable and yes theory was
all about seeking discomfort so he goes
we realized we were just seeking Comfort
doing something bigger every time was
just more and more comfortable and he
goes actually what's most uncomfortable
for me right now is to sit alone with my
thoughts every day for 15 minutes and
meditate and he said this to me and I
was like wow like it was so profound so
yes let's let's go down roll that down
to one right I'm gonna give you my
hypothesis yes people are afraid that
they people don't respect themselves or
their self-respect is fragile and being
alone with their thoughts is just gonna
be intrusive and they're going to lose
more respect I I guess because that
would be that was the thing that I
struggled with in the beginning and I've
spent my entire life making sure that I
can be alone because I always tell
people the only thing that matters is
how you feel about yourself when you're
by yourself so the only thing I can
think is when people are alone they
don't feel good about who they are and
so they seek distraction that's it I
mean it's as simple as that it literally
is like
it's like men and women were asked to be
alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes
or give themselves an electric shot I
know where this is going they did this
experiment 30 of women chose an electric
shark wow and 60 of men chose an
electric shock oh wow
the other way and when asked why they
said because they didn't want to be
alone with their thoughts because we're
scared of our thoughts now your
hypothesis is accurate I would agree
with it I think the biggest thing is
that
when we're left alone to ourselves
we hear things
that we may not be comfortable with
I don't like where my life is going I'm
not happy with how I look
everyone else is doing better than me
oh they just got proposed to and I'm
still alone all those thoughts get Space
to actually be heard whereas when you're
scrolling it's like oh they got proposed
oh cute bunny oh like you just you're
not even listening you're scrolling a
thought that's literally you're
scrolling away thoughts and that gives
us a sense of comfort that we don't
spend longer than three seconds on a
tour but then when you're asked to spend
three minutes or more on a door that
thought gets to like grow and build and
become scarier and bigger almost like a
monster that unknown of it right it's
like
I I think that what what people are most
scared of is they've been trained to
numb themselves we live in a society
that knows how to numb emotions and numb
feelings right I don't I'm so upset
about something I'm going to go and
drink alcohol to numb that feeling to
not experience that feeling I
um I I messed up at something I'm gonna
go and gamble away my money to numb the
feeling that I felt I'm gonna go and
watch something on TV because I just
want to numb how I feel right now now
I'm not saying that I don't do any of
those things to to numb a feeling when
it's really painful or that we shouldn't
ever numb a feeling at all but our goal
is we just want to numb things away and
I don't think that that's why I'm
sitting with your thoughts for 15
minutes is really hard because there's
nothing to numb it there's nothing that
will numb it and even sitting in the
cold nothing numbs that apart from your
own scentedness and breathing you have
to go to that and I think that's why
sitting alone with your thoughts is such
a powerful for practice because what
you're saying if you want to be happy
when you're with yourself sorry being
happy about yourself when you're by
yourself yeah being happy about yourself
when you're by yourself
that requires you to not numb anything
about yourself because that's the full
acceptance It's so interesting so I've
been thinking a lot recently about
distraction why distraction exists
because I think it actually serves a
pretty powerful purpose if we didn't
have the ability so there's a part of
the brain called the basal ganglia which
is known as the gear shift in the brain
and for people that have obsessive
thinking they get stuck and the basal
ganglia is not able to let them pass
that thought into another thought now I
think one of my superpowers is my
gearbox is amazing and to the point
where it almost becomes problematic
because I can I'll forget about
something that I was obsessed with
thinking about ah because my gearbox
just like goes into the next thing and
so that has shown me that I can very
easily get myself out of a loop if I'm
you know on something that's super
negative I can get out of that
but for somebody who can't you need that
external distraction and doom scrolling
like there was one period in my life
where I was so I had so much going on
that even the thought of meditating was
just like well then everything is going
to come crashing down and I was like but
I know better than to not meditate so I
need some sort of primer to soothe me
enough to get me into meditation and it
was actually Doom scrolling cats yeah
not just cats but like things like that
where it's like cute funny 15 seconds to
digest the idea and then you move on to
the next yeah and I trained my YouTube
algorithm to on shorts to only show me
like cute fun things and I would do that
for like seven minutes and then I would
go meditate I was like wow that is
freakishly effective the truth is
hitting your career goals is not easy
you have to be willing to go the extra
mile to stand out and do hard things
better than anybody else but there are
10 steps I want to take you through that
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time into your day you'll not only get
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free by clicking the link in today's
description alright my friend back to
today's episode
so you have to wall things off because
if you doom scroll for seven hours you
now never get anywhere but if you don't
understand how powerful distraction can
be enough to get you to the point where
now you can take advantage of something
like meditation which is going to leave
you alone with your thoughts yeah really
really fascinating yeah I love what you
just said about distraction I've always
allowed myself five minutes an hour to
be random and I often have I either do a
timer on my phone where at one point I
was really into like hourglasses or
minute glasses and I would just turn it
over and what do you do in that time so
I would allow myself to scroll I would
allow myself to search random stuff on
YouTube I'd allow myself so it's giving
myself the capacity to be random and
what I find in Randomness is that you
connect really interesting dots yeah
that's why I like meditating yeah
exactly and so I find like in space
where I don't know what I'm going to
type in or I'd pick up a random book for
my shelf or I would find a random thing
that I'm scrolling through but allowing
myself to do that for five minutes every
hour allowed my mind to have that space
to have that gaps to connect dots but
then return back and but that's using
distraction rather than just letting it
be there right and I think when
distraction controls you and drives you
and everyone knows what it feels like to
be on a rabbit hole where you end end up
on some random website or some random
Youtube channel everyone's been there
that's not a good feeling like I don't
think I want that feeling where I end up
somewhere seven hours later whereas
seven minutes of Randomness is really
healthy and beautiful and can be amazing
and so why can't seven minutes of
Stillness uh why can't seven minutes of
listening to sounds or ambient noises or
nature sounds right I think there's also
a sense of
I think it's reconnecting
with our breath there's an amazing study
I talk about in the book about how when
we spend time with people that were
close to or caregivers or people that
love us our breath and even our
heartbeat can synchronize dude that is
so weird to me it's so strange right do
humans sink up to each other the one
that freaks me out the most is that
women will sink their periods and they
all sink to the dominant female that
stuff gets sad super crazy wow yeah
super crazy it happens to my wife and
her sister all the time but yeah I
didn't I don't know which way around it
is yeah yeah so that's the next question
about that yeah that's so fascinating
yeah so walk me through okay so we get
self-awareness so we're I love that you
started the book with Solitude so we
stop being afraid of our thoughts
because we're doing the and now what
yeah so we have the saying it's
overwhelming it's freaking us out we're
gonna deal with it which I love that and
now in the context of becoming in fact
here's a thing that either you're going
to be like 100 or this will be where we
debate uh I think if you want to be in a
relation ship you must be worthy of a
relationship now I'm going to push it
even farther and make J Shetty the monk
a little uncomfortable maybe the
ultimate way to think about it is you
are asking somebody to have sex with you
and that's crazy it is the weirdest sort
of energetic thing that we do like I
think about this a lot I love this with
Lisa I went from hi my name is to Tom to
exposing my genitals and doing what one
does it's like that's a big Chasm to
cross and if you're going to ask
somebody to go on that journey in a way
where they're as excited as you are and
you don't end up in jail uh you have to
be somebody that's worthy of that and
that's a big ask yeah so one does that
resonate or do you think I'm out of my
mind and if it resonates how do people
become worthy well that's very Monkish
of you I mean that and you've put you've
put sex on a very sacred high value
facts right right in fact when you said
earlier about loneliness I was like I've
actually been the lonely I've ever been
was in the middle of intercourse yeah
which is a crazy thought like I couldn't
be any more with a person and because
there was no emotional connection I felt
so alone yeah it's crazy I'm so glad you
brought that up though right like that's
what we understand about loneliness now
that loneliness isn't about the number
of people around you it isn't about how
popular you are it doesn't matter
how many people are surrounded by you if
you don't feel understood if you don't
feel seen if you don't feel heard you're
lonely right like that's what it is and
so when you're saying I'm having sex
with someone and I still feel lonely
that's real but you from your definition
of just how you broke that down you're
placing sex as extremely sacred as a
high value
there could be lots of people listening
or watching and or maybe people that we
don't even that aren't in this community
that would actually disagree and they'd
just be like well sex is just sex like
what they don't see it that way right
the way you see it is probably more
aligned with The Vedas than than the
other perspective for sure the idea that
if you're about to do anything intimate
with anyone physical intimacy emotional
intimacy the amount of like exchange of
we just talked about exchanging
heartbeats and breathing I mean if you
think about how biologically affected
You Are by a relationship let alone how
emotionally and then spiritually
affected You Are by a relationship and
how much Karma you share from a
spiritual level how much uh energy and
vibration you share on a spiritual level
you're talking about like completely
syncing up or
destroying your Synergy with someone and
so I would say I agree with you I don't
think you're crazy at all I think you're
spot on so how do you become Worthy
so I think that I mean I don't think you
have to complete Solitude in order to
move on and so in the book I I break
down the four things that The Vedas
break down which is uh preparing for
love which is solitude
practicing love which is in a
relationship
right the third is like preserving love
because or protecting love because
there's a part of us when we're burnt
through love that loses the belief in
love or or changes so there's a
protection of love that comes at phase
three and phase four is what I call
perfecting love and so if those are the
four phases Solitude is the one
preparing for love and you have to do a
lot of that becoming worthy in solitude
because what I mean we're we're saying
something here that we're on I think
we're on the same page the idea that if
you walk into a relationship and you
don't know who you are you don't know
what you need or what you want and what
you're building and what you're creating
you're basically going to hope that the
other person is going to answer all
those questions for you or you're going
to Outsource that inadequacy to them to
make you feel worthy so that's why we
walk into a relationship and we accept
the currency of attention as love we
accept the currency of validation as
love dude that's big in a social media
culture right we accept the currency of
attention validation compliments Comfort
random niceness we accept all of that as
love because we ourselves haven't
defined and experienced what love looks
like on our own so how you become worthy
of another person is first becoming
worthy for yourself and what does it
mean to be worthy for yourself
to me it's doing hard things alone when
you've done hard things alone and you've
grown through them and when I say alone
I don't mean without your family or
without friends I just mean when you've
broken through some of your own barriers
that gives you a healthier sense of
self-esteem and self-worth I think
self-worth doesn't come from saying
affirmations in a mirror it doesn't come
from just like pretending to be happy it
doesn't come from being positive your
greatest self-worth is going to come
from breaking through stuff that you
didn't think you could break through do
people expect you to say just look
yourself in the mirror and say I love
myself yeah I think I think people ex I
think people sometimes project their own
belief of like the word self-love right
so there's there is a form of self-love
like I love going to Spas I love getting
massages so I'm into that form myself
but I see that as more self-care I see
there's like caring for myself and
things like that uh when I think of
self-love and just telling myself I love
myself I've tried all of those things
and I've seen how they are not possible
when I haven't done some other work yes
right like me looking in the mirror and
just saying I'm amazing I'm wonderful if
I haven't done something amazing that
day or done something wonderful that day
I don't believe myself right and that's
the problem people have they're like I
don't believe it now there's two sides
to it I actually believe a lot of people
have done hard things but they don't
give themselves credit for it very
possible so there's there's a big group
of people my mom included I interviewed
my mum recently not on the podcast I
want to but I I did what I I'm happy I
did I interviewed her at a dinner just
me and her because I really wanted to
get to know her story but I realized
it's cool I didn't feel you record it
I'm guessing I didn't because that was
my father-in-law reported it it was
awesome Have you shared that no no doubt
knowing the background of your
father-in-law dude that's interesting we
should ask Lisa because it was dope like
that guy's story is [ __ ] crazy yeah
it's unbelievable and that's what I'm
saying that we don't even know the
people closest to us right it's a love
again anyway but that's that's a whole
other thing but I sat down with my mom I
asked her questions like I would ask on
the podcast and I was talking to her and
she was telling me that it's at like
15 years old I think
15 16 years old she she was born and
raised in Yemen oh wow and so yeah so
she's living in Yemen
yeah men are trying and it was called
Aiden at the time
they're trying to the Brits who have
colonized the country are fighting
against the yemeni soldiers and she's
studying for exams while there's gunmen
on her rooftop like that's a story and
I'm like Mom like you've never told me
how bad this was you just told me you
left Yemen because of the war and moved
to England like that's the story I know
and all of a sudden I'm discovering that
you are actually studying for an exam
while there's people with guns on your
roof defending and you're in the middle
of all of that and you're 15 years old
and she never told me that and I was
thinking she's done hard things like and
she doesn't she doesn't even see it that
way because to her it's normal
interesting do you think she thinks it's
normal or or do people confuse enduring
which is extraordinary yeah with oh but
I didn't actively choose it and
therefore I completely discounted
totally totally well I I mean at least
for my mom I can say that she just sees
it as her life she doesn't see it as
like hard or easy or that that's her
kind of ways she she sees stuff it's
kind of how I feel sometimes when I talk
about my monk experience it's very
normal to me like there's a part and I
chose to do it there's a part of me
that's just like it's normal and people
are like that's crazy like why would you
ever become a monk after school it's so
bizarre but to me it's not that bizarre
and so it takes me a minute to be like
oh wait a minute it is pretty crazy
right like not many people do that but I
don't I don't sit in that thought that
often and so I think there's
I think what I'm saying is that this
becoming Worthy is breaking through some
of your own barriers and limits whatever
they need maybe which is what you
discover in the solitude
and the more you break through those the
more you feel worthy for anything and
everything because you go wow I've done
some really tough stuff on my own I've
like really pushed myself in this way
I've really tried something new and now
you're not looking for that person to
fill your worthiness you're not looking
for that person to say you're amazing
and you're the best and you're
incredible because you've experienced
your strength right when you've
experienced your strength no one can
make you feel weak the right person will
only make you feel stronger
right and that's the key when you've
already done hard things the people
around you will only make you feel
stronger that's why you know they're
great to be in your life because they're
not making you feel strong they make you
feel stronger whereas what we often find
is that
they're not making you feel strong
they're making you feel stronger correct
so I'm saying like we're not so even
even in a positive relationship with us
like when I'm around you right and we
have a healthy relationship we know each
other a fair bit it's like I'm I
consider myself to be self-aware and
self-confident and and have a high
degree of self-worth totally open about
it I have no issues no issues no
reasonable person will push back on that
yeah no issues with it whatsoever and
um
and I feel that the people I like to be
in my life are not people who I'm
looking to support that or or do that
but they're able to help me discover
more about myself so there's a sign of
strength so I had a client I was working
that was coaching with last year and he
did this for me and it was really
powerful and I was like I I only like
working with clients who also I learned
from so I have a selfish motive there
but it's it's special and he said to me
he goes Jay I've never met someone who
could
he said I've never met someone who ties
up spirituality business and
practicality in one person like you do
and I'm not saying that the self-promote
I'm saying that because he gave me
permission to be all three and that made
me also second that and it was just
really powerful I felt so like
freed by that statement to be all three
because it made me stronger I know I
admit those things but that person Made
Me Stronger that's what I'm saying that
you gravitate towards when you already
have a sense of self-worth whereas when
you don't have a sense of self-worth you
look for the person who's saying oh
you're really good at that oh like maybe
you should work like you're looking for
someone to like make you feel better
about yourself from zero whereas you're
already out of 10 and someone's like
finding new ways of showing you more of
yourself that's There's Something
Beautiful about that agreed I don't even
know if I'm articulating clearly but
very clearly from my perspective so I
think that there is a biological
imperative hardwired into the brain that
you must do hard things in order to feel
good about yourself and when I think
about it from an evolutionary standpoint
and this is why I think Rich Kids
implode they just never had to do hard
things
from an evolutionary perspective I think
it was just so hard to stay alive like
for millions of years it really was red
in tooth and clot like to stay alive you
were kill or be killed you were hunting
Gathering fighting other tribes I'm just
crazy
and the people that were going to
survive were going to be the ones that
that got an emotional a self uh applied
emotional reward for doing something
hard and when you do something hard and
you recognize it it needs to feel good
and if it does then you will keep doing
hard things and you're the far more
likely to survive than the person who's
like that sucked there was no redeeming
qualities and so it's just like when I
think about that because if I were to
create a recipe for fulfillment
it's very simple it's working really
hard doing hard things to gain a set of
skills that allow you to serve not only
yourself but others that's it like
that's the whole recipe but it really
has to be that you had to do something
hard if it came easily to you it won't
give you the sense of respect that you
want like the stuff that I've gotten
more easily in my life I don't take a
lot of pride in it's always the stuff
that I grind out like through pain and
suffering and I Endure in fact I want to
read you a quote this is one of my
all-time favorite quotes so here it is I
[ __ ] love this man yeah to those
human beings who are of any concern to
me I wish suffering desolation sickness
ill treatment indignities I wish that
they should not remain unfamiliar with
profound self-contempt the torture of
self-mistrust the wretchedness of the
vanquished I have no pity for them
because I wish them the only thing that
can prove today whether one is worth
anything or not that one endures
that is several I definitely I'm not I'm
not gonna um so good like And subscribe
I I I like I think it I I get the
sentiment I would not wish it on anyone
that's amazing so push back as hard as
you can because I I love this so if you
agree yeah in fact where where does it
break down what is up my friend Tom
bilyu here and I have a big question to
ask you how would you rate your level of
personal discipline on a scale of one to
ten if your answer is anything less than
a ten I've got something cool for you
and let me tell you right now discipline
by its very nature means compelling
yourself to do difficult things that are
stressful boring which is what kills
most people or possibly scary or even
painful now here is the thing achieving
huge goals and stretching to reach your
potential requires you to do those
challenging stressful things and to
stick with them even when it gets boring
and it will get boring bill building
your levels of personal discipline is
not easy but let me tell you it pays off
in fact I will tell you you're never
going to achieve anything meaningful
unless you develop discipline right I've
just released a class from Impact Theory
university called how to build Ironclad
discipline that teaches you the process
of building yourself up in this area so
that you can push yourself to do the
hard things the greatness is going to
require of you right click the link on
the screen register for this class right
now and let's get to work I will see you
inside this Workshop from Impact Theory
University until then my friends be
legendary peace out
because this is why I don't have kids
that is what people need in my opinion
yeah and I and I can't I can't do it
yeah yeah icon um well that's well
that's where we where we disagree right
like is it like in I get the intention
and the spirit of it but do you think
I'm a better person if they avoid it
I don't I don't think you have to I feel
like for most people
for most people
Purity hard in some area I don't think
there's many people I know at least
where I grew up does it make them better
or worse
well I don't think they have the tools
which is why we've dedicated what we're
doing to that right like I don't think
that when I look at the people I grew up
around or the areas I grew up in and it
wasn't the worst of the worst it wasn't
the best the best I've been to Wood
Green yeah it's not lovely it's not
lovely right it's not yeah you've been
there of course yeah it's not nice and
people made bad choices because they
didn't have good Role Models right like
people made bad choices because they
didn't have good tools they didn't make
bad choices because of just where they
were it's because they didn't have
access today we have access and that's
what we're trying to do I feel with our
work because I look at myself and I
could clearly if I what's that called
sliding doors if I envisioned like where
my life could have been if I didn't take
a few steps I could easily have been
today
addicted to some drug
getting involved in things that were
highly violent and finding myself
validation through gang culture like I
could have so ended up there like I
literally could pinpoint three decisions
that could have totally took my life in
that direction and and no one would know
who I am today and I'd be a very
different person not because I'm a bad
person or because I'm attracted to any
of those things just because I didn't
have access I got lucky and I see that I
the access that I got to the monks at an
early age just transformed the
trajectory of my life
but most people don't meet someone
random we follow the same people on
Instagram we follow the same people on
YouTube we all watch the same stuff we
listen to the same stuff
how many people in their last seven days
could be honest and say they heard from
a random voice that was unexpected or
they saw a random person that they
didn't know that sparked a New Journey
in their life like that's how random it
was for me to meet a monk I didn't grow
up religious I wasn't around monks I
didn't go religiously to meet monks like
I met someone who
completely sparked a different thought
when you're sitting down with trauma
experts when I'm sitting down with
neuroscientists like I didn't grow up
with neuroscientists like who is
speaking to those people so I feel
I yeah I just feel like with that oh but
going back to that statement
I wouldn't wish pain on anyone because I
feel that life is already hard I would
just wish that people opened up their
hearts and Minds to the tools that would
help them deal with that hardship better
and not try and rely on what they
currently have in their toolkit that
would be my wish if you ask me what my
wish is right I the only way I can like
And subscribe to that yeah is if we
modify it slightly and say I wish that
people could develop a profound sense of
self-worth yeah
and avoid all of that but I don't think
they can I don't think again so this may
be a cruel Twist of evolution like I
want to be very clear I'm not saying I'm
glad it is this way I'm just saying I
think it is this way now my beef with
the the idea of I wish that you know
these horrible things upon people is
that it breaks most of the people that
it touches right but I don't think
people can become a version of
themselves that they'll be proud of
unless they go through that stuff yeah
so and I think the compassionate monk in
me can't wish that on someone in that
way and and you could argue that real
compassion is
letting the right thing happen to
someone that they need to go through I
just don't think and and that is what
really oh that's interesting so yeah
here here was my catch with the one of
the reasons I didn't have kids I knew I
would intervene if something bad was
happening now as I get older I feel like
I might be more capable of letting it
happen but at the time when I was sort
of peak like should we should we not I
was like I know I will intervene would
you intervene
I don't know is there's the answer here
we don't know we've been we've talked
about it we're very like we're probably
at that stage yeah and so we've been
very open about it we're like we don't
know and partly it's these kind of
things partly it's how it affects
service and impact how it there's so
many there's so many things right
there's so many facets to that question
of so let's say Dar who has two children
your co-host on your show yeah Darren J
for those that aren't liking and
subscribing yet uh
would you want them to intervene
I saw so I saw a couple of parents that
I was friends with a few years back and
I remember that their two-year-old was
like putting her hands through a candle
like on the other side of the room so we
were all hanging out here the two year
olds running around and the
two-year-olds on the other side of the
candle and they're doing that and then
in my natural instinct at the time this
is probably like maybe like
eight years ago my natural instinct was
to go and be like help that kid and I'm
always mindful of other people's kids
too because I just feel like something
you know and I was about to jump up and
help her and they were like no no leave
it she's fine she'll if it hurts her
she'll know next time not to touch that
and let her learn by herself and I was
like wow that's really impressive like
I'm scared your kid's gonna burn their
hand and you're really now I'm not
recommending either or my friends are
great parents and they're very loving
and and that's the challenge today right
like a lot of people be like oh my God
they don't care about their kids like I
think they do care about their kids I
think they're really great parents but
them allowing them their child to do
this I would then see pictures of them
they they moved into the countryside and
stuff and their kid would just be like
out like swinging on trees and like
climbing stuff and falling over it and
they were so comfortable with that
because they had that mindset that there
should be an openness now I think
there's that openness but then there's
intervening when it gets really painful
like what if your child gets involved in
drugs are you not going to intervene
like are you not going to educate are
you not gonna and obviously in all the
right ways you'd hope would be the
healthy ways of intervening I don't
think ever walking in and telling a kid
to stop or don't do that is ever going
to work but to me intervening is
important
at certain points where you think it's
like really going off the edge of the
cliff versus when you feel like it's
healthy experimentation and you don't
but I'm saying this obviously in theory
because I don't have to but when I look
at it with my the closest person I can
compare it to is my sister so my
sister's five years younger than me
when she was born I held her in my hands
and I felt like I've parented her in
many ways she's I call her kid like
that's my nickname for my younger sister
and if I look at my sister I made
mistakes by intervening too much
sometimes
so I didn't really want her to have a
job growing up because I worked a job
growing up when I was 14 and I didn't
really think that I was healthy for her
and now I look back and I was like
realize that was a mistake like I should
have let her work
and I I don't think that that was a good
decision and so that's me going okay
well that was a bad intervention and
then there's other things where like we
have a really open relationship she
tells me all her challenges we're really
good friends she's not scared to tell me
something like that's the healthy part
of it and so I look at like how
parenting is so tough because you look
back and you're like ah I'm Wiser now
and then you look back and go oh I got
that right so
I I think whether it's kids or not I
guess my point is I wouldn't wish pain
on someone because I think they're going
through some sort of pain anyway that's
my point I can't wish pain on someone
yeah that's against my belief I hear it
yeah um what is the formula like if you
want to be in a healthy relationship
what what's the number one things the
number one thing people get wrong yeah
and what is the fix yeah so I'm gonna
give you three
I break them each down in this book so
the three on the first one's simple and
basic and then and then it gets more
complex and interesting so the first one
is you have to like their personality
you have to like their company you enjoy
being around them you enjoy being around
them for longer periods of time which is
an important experiment like I read a
study that showed to make someone a
casual connection you have to spend 40
hours with them for a casual connection
whoa if you want someone to be
considered a friend it's 100 hours of
time with that person and if you
consider someone a good friend if you
consider someone a good friend a great
friend it's 200 hours plus if you can't
like someone's company for 200 hours of
undistracted time chances are you don't
really like their personality we both
know people that we would love to spend
a weekend with but we wouldn't want to
see them every weekend that's okay those
can be great casual friendships we both
know people that we wish we could spend
more time with but we don't prioritize
they're good friends but they're not
going to be the best friends and then we
know people like our wives who we spend
a considerable amount of time with
disproportionately more with them than
we do with any other human on the planet
and you know hopefully we made good
decisions we're happy about those
decisions so when I look at that liking
that's what I mean by liking that
person's company and personality to give
it some tangibility of what that means
the second thing you need and this is
where I want to be really clear about my
language because this word gets thrown a
lot in relationship talk but I don't
mean it in the same way so the thing is
you have to respect their values and
what I mean by this is 99 of us in
relationships are trying to make our
partner respect our values we want them
to like what we like we want them to
love what we love if I'm going to watch
football on the weekend I'd love you you
to come with me if I think that going
towards this is really important you
should be there so we demand that our
partner respects our value rather than
respecting theirs and I'll give a
tangible example so
for example Rady's number one and I ask
a lot of couples to do this exercise if
I'm working with someone I'll ask
couples to rank their top three
priorities including themselves in order
and most of the time one partner will
say
you are you the partner so you would say
Lisa
if you had the kids you'd say the kids
and then third they'd put themself
that's that's a general order that
people put now sometimes you get a
curveball where someone goes me
you the kids and every time someone
writes that their partner goes how how
could you put the kids third how can the
kids be third like how does that make
any sense and how can you be first
and it's like well no because I I know
that I don't want to give you my
leftovers I want to give you the best of
me so when you look at respecting
someone's value when I look at Rodney's
values write these number one value is
family her family my number one value is
my purpose and my service to the world
those are not the same values a lot of
people say you have to have the same
values in a marriage I I don't subscribe
to that I don't think you have to have
the same values I think you have to I
think if you're looking for someone with
exactly the same values you're going to
take a lot longer to find that person I
don't know anyone in the world that I
know that's happily married and I'd love
to break it down with anyone who
genuinely could say we have the same
exact values so I respect Rodney's
values family which means when family
becomes a priority in decision making
when family becomes a priority during
the holiday season when family becomes a
topic of conversation I'm zoned in
that's something she deeply values and
cares about if she's going to choose
family over anything I'm going to be
okay with that because she's made it
very clear that's her number one value
same back at me if I choose purpose over
anything she knows that's going to
happen it's not a surprise I know so
many people who are trying to get their
Partners to change their value and I
just don't see that happening or that
person compromises their value and now
feels less versions of themselves like a
less adequate version of themselves and
now you're dating the second best
version of the person you love and so
that's respecting values and the third
thing is and this is what differentiates
it
is you are committed to helping them get
to their goals you're committed
I may like your goals Tom but we're not
in love and we're not in a relationship
where I'm committed to achieving your
goals I love it I deeply appreciate you
in the world I think you have an amazing
impact but if someone asks me Jay you
could feel this way about a friend I'm
not committed I'm not actively doing
something I may support I collaborate
help but I'm not committed whereas with
my wife I'm committed on a daily basis
what do you want in your life where are
you going what do you need what support
do you need what can I do with do for
you to help you get there it's not about
her helping me get to my goals she's
thinking about that but I'm thinking
about how is that so those are my things
for for a happy relationship those are
three key things I mean there's so many
more things I could go into but I have
to give the overview formulas those
three things so what trips people up are
they I'm assuming selection if that's
such a big part they just select the
wrong person yeah why
I think people select the wrong person
because they are looking for
first of all we select the wrong person
because we make so many snap judgments
off of a few basic inputs so
one of the things that the ladies talk
about is something called the six
opulences and we've talked about this
before we talked about them in a
different uh context but the six
opulence is a Fame wealth power Beauty
knowledge and renunciation those are the
six opulences these are six things
people pursue people value people admire
right we can all agree with that I love
the renunciation made the list yeah that
talk about self-awareness yeah it's a
huge one and so those six are the six
opulences and what we do in
relationships which is really thing is
when we find someone has one opulence we
ascribe them other qualities so if
someone is wealthy we assume that they
must be organized and that they'll be
organized in the home if someone is
attractive we assume that they'll be
able to articulate themselves
effectively if someone is powerful at
work we assume that they're really good
at organizing date night right like
there's these qualities we start
ascribing people
and so often what happens is one
opulence does this halo effect into
making you believe that this person has
a lot more gifts and skills and
qualities rather than through research
and learning and experience you're just
giving them away to that person and we
do this in interviews right we all know
how the halo effect works in interviews
if you're interviewing a more attractive
candidate you're more likely to hire
them more attractive hostesses and
waiters and waitresses get bigger tips
like this is just how human psychology
works but it's very risky when you
choose a life partner based on how
attractive someone was for 30 seconds
and so I find that selection goes wrong
because of that because we ascribe
qualities because of one opulence rather
than actually seeing those qualities
it's like me saying to you
when did Lisa realize she could trust
you
I'm hoping it's not day one
because trust is something that has to
be proven time and time and time again
trust is something that she has to see
time and time again he said he was going
to be there at this time he turned up
he said he was going to show up for this
moment he showed up that's trust trust
is not built because someone was really
nice to you and so trust is something we
throw away and I can dive into the
levels of trust too but
you know yeah I mean if those are the
top-notch things let's yeah so I talk
about four levels of trust this is
actually and think like a monk but it it
fully connects to this book
um there are four levels of trust my
belief is that whenever you meet anyone
someone new your relationship with them
should start at zero trust now what we
do in life is we believe that there's
only two things in everything we think
everything's binary right black and
white left and right trust don't trust
now is zero trust sitting at the zero
point between trust and distrust zero is
sitting at no trust beginning yes
because you don't have an active like
you're not looking at them suspiciously
correct so I'm gonna get yeah so I'm
gonna give you the level so the idea so
the first point being that
we see trust is too binary I have people
I trust in these people I don't trust to
me that's too limited and it doesn't
help because what that means is if I
like someone I automatically trust them
which is massively unhealthy and so what
I'm saying is that zero trust is correct
between distrust at the bottom and then
trust higher but there's three levels in
between so when I meet someone
especially if you're dating them you
have zero trust in them the next step is
transactional trust transactional trust
is I know when this person says they're
gonna do something they do it I know
there's an equal Exchange in the
transaction I like if I say I'm gonna do
this work and you're going to pay me
this amount I know you're going to pay
me at that time that's transactional
trust it's what you have to do employees
it's what you have to do teams it's what
you have with colleagues we don't want
this because it's not sexy it's not it
doesn't feel like love it feels too
professional it feels too corporate but
really every single person has to go
through these levels with you the next
day ages reciprocal Trust where you know
someone loves you and appreciates you
and will do good for you but you're not
counting you're not checking you know it
reciprocates naturally it Cycles around
this is a healthy level of trust after
some time where the transaction's been
proven over and over again now you don't
need the contract right now you don't
now you don't always need to sign it and
then the fourth stage which I believe is
practically impossible is unconditional
trust which is that god-like trust that
we all want in the person we end up with
the problem is we give unconditional
trust away early and then we fall down
those levels to zero trust and why we
feel so let down by people because it
just felt like we felt down four flights
of stairs that's why breaking trust
feels so deep because you gave someone
level four trust when you should have
started at zero and work their way up so
let people earn your trust when you talk
about being worthy like let someone earn
your trust let someone be worthy of your
trust don't just give it because they're
nice and kind and they bought you a gift
right so why do you think we have that
instinct is it just the halo effect of
you are kind to me and I'm letting that
spill over into other areas I think we
just want to be loved so desperately
we're so desperate for it because it's
been put on this pedestal that this is
the defining factor of success in life
is could you find someone to love you
because then you'd be lovable then you'd
be worthy then you'd have what it takes
if you were able to convince someone to
spend their life with you then you're
worthy and we're so desperate for that
that we will happily speed through those
instead of 200 hours we'll tell someone
we love them in two months because we'd
rather have it and think we lost it than
to have never found it at all because
never having found it means we were
never worthy whereas if we found it lost
in even if it wasn't perfect at least
there was some part of us that was
lovable and that's why we'll stay in
toxic relationships that's why we'll
settle for people who are not worthy for
us because we'd rather feel like we're
in love than actually build it and I
think that's the challenges that we live
in such a feeling world as opposed to a
building creating World which is a doing
World which is an action world I start
the book with this beautiful statement
of this conversation between a student
and a teacher often attributed to the
Buddha and so a student goes up to the
Buddha and says what is the difference
between I like you and I love you
and the Buddha replies when you like a
flower you simply pluck it
and throw it away but when you love a
flower you water it daily and to me that
is the difference because we're so
disgusting yeah we're so desperate to
just smell that flower observe its
beauty for a few moments toss it away
but that person who turns up every day
and Waters that flower and gives it the
Sun and gives it the soil no one wants
to be that person but that's love then
you have a beautiful garden then you
have this beautiful view every day of
all these flowers that you grew and so
to me it's the the desperation of the
feeling of being loved is is making us
settle for less than
it's really interesting now you say that
nobody wants to be that person because
of the effort and energy like this is
something that Lisa and I say a lot and
be curious to see if you agree with this
I think you will that love
love really isn't enough just to be
super cliche for a second that really a
relationship isn't just about love
that's one of the components but it's
going to take a lot of work yeah but
work of the kind that you describe
watering it making sure it has enough
Sun you know wiping the leaves down make
sure there's no bugs on it it's an
attentiveness yeah an investment maybe
and it's unsexy right I keep using that
word too because it's not what's been
portrayed it's not what it's meant to
feel like it doesn't look like that
Pinterest board it doesn't feel like the
wedding day every day right like the the
challenges that I think I mean I was
looking at the studies the amount of
money that gets spent on weddings it
says the more you spend on your wedding
the more likely you had a divorce
earlier like really yeah that's the
trend like you have a shorter wedding
the more you spend on your uh you have a
shorter marriage the more you spend on
your wedding is what the studies show
and so when I saw that I was just like
wow like I I didn't spend that much on
my wedding thankfully now I don't care
the studies but I was looking at that
and again I'm not again I'm not saying
don't have a big wedding I have a big
wedding and I love big weddings I love
attending I'm just saying that it's
interesting how much
if you think about it
when you're planning a wedding
you organize a priest the priest is
there to remind you of your commitments
when you get married
who's your priest who's reminding you of
your commitments every day we never
think about that when you get married
you have a guest list the guest list is
made up of people who love you and
support your marriage
when you're married
How Deeply do you think about the people
you're surrounded by and how much they
build the community of helping you
flourish in your marriage
at your wedding day you think about
what you wear what you say to that
person from the moment you wake up to
the moment you go to sleep you're
conscious of each and every one of your
words maybe hopefully trying to be at
least in your marriage that that goes
out the window so you think about the
amount of forget the money the amount of
effort that goes into planning one day
imagine if you took all that effort
and used it to plan a marriage how
successful would every marriage be right
it's a shift of energy and it's a shift
of mindset and saying we spend so much
time money energy resources
attentiveness your word to plan a
wedding
but there's no attentiveness to plan a
marriage or a long-term relationship if
you don't want to be married why do you
think it is that if you're spending a
lot of money on the wedding that that's
inversely correlated to the length of
time that you stay married is it just
messed up
um priorities what what is that I mean I
think it's hard to I I'd have to look
deeply into it I mean it's hard to
stereotype because I guess there's so
many of both right I'm sure there's
other things that buck the trend I think
there's a part of it that you could say
that
the bigger the wedding or any gesture
not even wedding any gesture you're
trying to overcompensate
for trying to make this feel like it's
special and important I think sometimes
people can throw their partner's amazing
birthday parties in order to make up for
the whole year what do you think about
now it seems like the trend and I don't
have the data but I'm almost certain
this is accurate that people are getting
married less and less and less and less
yeah I've seen having less sex less kids
like it's a trend that freaks me out uh
are you at all concerned that's a great
question I I'm not concerned about
people not getting officially married
if they're in committed long-term
relationships that are healthy I think
it's a catastrophic error interesting
why why do you think the certificate and
the commitments are important
abstracted from the certificate you need
to do something there is a lack of
ritual in our lives now so I read the
power of myth when I was I think maybe
even before I met Lisa but certainly
before we got married and the book was
talking about how hey the big problem
with society today is there's no
coming-of-age ritual part of the reason
the divorce rate is so high he
speculated was because there was no like
real ceremony that meant something that
reminded people you're a different
person on the other side of this and so
for me I
read that and was like okay when I get
married that's going to be it one and
done never again barring death and or I
mean look you make this point in the
book several times if you're an abusive
relationship get out yeah yeah I 100
agree with that assuming I'm not
um that I wanted something that would
really remind me that I was a different
person so I wanted it to be painful and
I wanted it to be permanent yeah and so
I as an act of a ritualistic
scarification I got a tattoo
and got married and had the priests and
the waving of the smoke and all that and
even though it was all in not only Greek
which I didn't speak at the time it was
an ancient Greek so whatever few words I
did know I really couldn't hang on to
but there was something about the the
sense of ritual and importance of people
in fancy dress and like all of that that
it really did allow me because I was
willing to say this is a big moment I'm
never going to be the same again and
then reinforce that by getting the
tattoo and the whole time I was getting
the tattoo I was focusing on the pain
and saying this is Forever This is a way
of permanently altering my body so that
I never forget that I've made a
commitment and I think people if you're
not even willing to go through a typical
marriage ceremony like bra your chances
of going through oh yeah dude look first
of all I've been married for 20 years I
know what the [ __ ] I'm talking about and
this went from
I was going to be the breadwinner wife
stay at home take care of the kids to
not having kids and my wife becoming an
entrepreneur if you don't think that was
like some radical change and through all
of that I just knew divorce isn't an
option so since I'm completely unwilling
to be in a Loveless marriage
how do we grow together yeah and because
it was like well I'm not going to be in
an unhappy marriage and I'm not exiting
the marriage that only leaves making the
marriage awesome and so all of a sudden
it's like okay well Clarity of thought I
need to focus on making this awesome
yeah and when people don't have that
there's just an attitude of like
disposability from sex to marriage and
look I am not opposed to uh casual sex
I've had my share it was mostly fun
there were a couple times we talked
about one earlier where I was like okay
well even if it's a one-night stand I
need to be interested in the person
that's my own personal realization so
I think people need to take that not
more seriously like terrifyingly
seriously yeah because that person is
going to shape you in ways you can't
imagine yeah and if you go into that
like ma whatever like you're living your
life by the law of accident and I see
that echoed through so I love the idea
of what you said about ritual like I
think rituals are powerful they're
important I mean there's they're totally
part of Vedic culture like rituals
everything like rituals are those you
know Korean weddings are like Days Seven
Days Jesus to make you realize how
important this commitment is like you
get married to someone over seven days
and you meet all their family and they
meet all of yours like there's there's
an imprint right and that's what it the
word is samskara like samskara means
impression or imprint these rituals
leave imprints or Impressions that are
powerful to help you become new or to
become more and so I agree with that and
the only thing that I think I'm
open to is that
people take a little bit longer to
decide before they commit and that if
you are in a marriage that
I think there are just so many people
today that are married that aren't using
your mindset of I don't want to be in a
Loveless marriage what do we do like I
literally will and and by the way I see
you and Lisa is just like I talking to
you about this stuff is so exciting for
me because I love how you and Lisa love
each other I love how you talk about
your rules I love how you talk about
your principles I love how you talk
about the lessons and I agree with them
like I think we're very aligned and I'm
very much earlier this book isn't about
my relationship this book isn't about
look at how successful my marriage is
I've not been married for that long this
book is about studies and The Vedas and
Science and the research and the tools
but the one thing I will say is that I
check in with radhi regularly
and I'll often do an alternative and
I'll say is this relationship going in
the direction you want
and I'll check in with and I'll say is
this relationship actually going in the
direction you want if it is great what
are we doing right
and if it isn't what direction do you
want to go in and what does that require
of you and what does that require of me
and are we ready to commit to that and
that has been one of the healthiest
questions for me to ask because I'm like
you I don't want to live longer than
couple of hours in a in a Loveless
relationships when it's something within
my control like I don't want something
within my control to be painful for
longer than it needs to be I don't want
to be in a relationship where I don't
talk to you for a week I don't want to
be in a relationship where we argue for
a month about the same thing I didn't
subscribe to that like that's not what I
committed to like I didn't set my life
up in a way to live with pain and for
years and years and years
and I saw that in my family and I was
like no way do I want to create that in
my life so I'm going to do everything
possible but what I find is that a lot
of people are in relationships where
there isn't a collaborative approach I
at least send you a collaborators in
this me and radi are growing in the
collaboration this is like if if you're
not with someone who's collaborative
it's really tough I meet a lot of people
who like I'm ready to do the work I want
to do the work
but then their partner doesn't
reciprocate with any energy or any
enthusiasm because they think we already
did it we got married we had the kids we
both have a job we have a house what are
you worried about right like that's the
response people hear and I'm speaking to
that person and saying well if you need
to slow down getting married it's okay
and if you are married and it's not
going in the right direction that's okay
but because I don't want to put
I don't want to put pressure on people
to think that marriage is the
achievement and I know you're not doing
that either but I think a lot of people
see marriages the end in the achievement
as opposed to the beginning it's the
container it's the container but it's
not seen that way yeah it's interesting
So Lisa and I got married at the time it
it's it did feel like we were young but
by today's standards we were infants
it's really crazy yeah but when I think
about how much if if you can construct
the right container
it it will improve your life vastly the
reason I'm so celebratory of marriage is
that nothing and I mean nothing not
business ambition and self-improvement
nothing has given me as much as my
marriage now because I treat it like the
flower that I water and keep the bugs
off and make sure it gets sunlight and
all that stuff I mean it's a massive
amount of time and attention but when I
think about what the human animal is
wired for
it actually isn't necessarily just a
monogamous marriage but you've you can
go in different paths it's actually
something I wasn't sure if would come up
today I think that there's there is a
buffet of offerings that are available
to work with human wiring and depending
on the circumstance into which you are
born you will either be in
um
polyamorous uh polyandrous where there's
multiple males which is to one female
which is very unusual uh and then
monogamous
and it's utterly I'm so aware that those
are real that I make sure that I take
more time and attention to grow the one
that I'm in in the right way if that
makes sense so but knowing that I do
have the wiring to thrive within this
but I have to be very thoughtful about
how we mix that cocktail uh in the book
you talk about like defining love and
making sure that you understand each
other's fighting styles and all of that
gets really uh wonderfully practical
you've got the fighting quiz yeah yeah
where people can go figure out like
what's my fighting style do you put the
same kind of attention on understanding
whether the words you use are masculine
energy or feminine I didn't spend a lot
of time in the book on masculine and
feminine energy only because I think
that it's not in our current vocabulary
and it's not really how
the the weight is ultimately treat
everyone as a soul and so that's already
Beyond gender
uh and Beyond energy in the sense that
we are all equal energy so The Vedas
come at it from a standpoint of you and
me are made of the same stuff
Consciousness wise there is no
difference in the Consciousness that
Yuan that I am or anyone in this room or
anyone in the world and therefore I am
not Superior inferior to any other
individual hence we can only ever be a
team so when you're really going to the
core of the teachings that I kind of
live my life by I can't start to see
better or worse or bigger or or not so I
don't just look at Ravi as a team member
on the fact that she's my wife I see as
a team member because I see her as
Consciousness and divine energy which is
the same as the energy that's within me
because I'm not this body right like I
genuinely believe that at the core of my
being is that I'm not a physical body
and so it's very hard for me to get lost
in conversations around physical body
and gender a store or masculine feminine
energy because at the core of it that's
not how I'm structuring my life how does
that influence the way that you think
about it because I'm the exact opposite
I am I am of this body nothing else when
I die it's a light switch I'm gone if
you take a needle and Jab a part of my
brain it's going to impact how I'm able
to process the world yeah yeah
um so it's very direct how I which is
probably a big part of the reason I'm so
tactical I just view the world through
that lens it is my temperament yeah
um so if you don't have that would you
call yourself a duelist like where
spirit and body are completely separate
no so it's like well
so yeah so in in our philosophy it's
called simultaneous one indifference so
it's both it's like you have the I'm I'm
living in this body but I am not this
body so the idea can you be separated
from like do you believe in an immortal
soul that will outlive your body yes yes
and sorry to be so grounded in the
physical does that continue to exist in
a physical place or there is another
realm that we don't have access to when
we're in this body yeah so the
philosophical understanding is that I
have
is that this the Consciousness continues
to seek physical form to experience
physical pleasure and physical
experiences until the point that it is
materially exhausted and is able to
truly live in its full Consciousness not
needing a physical form to exercise
physical needs and design and how does
that Consciousness manifest itself once
it's transcended the pursuit of physical
pleasure
it's described in quality not in
obviously I've not experienced that sure
um my only experience of it is through
meditation and practice and is it an
intuitive understanding that you would
be hard-pressed to put into language no
it's a state well the state is described
as full of knowledge
eternal and full of bliss that's the
state in which we're living
and so what I'm explaining is that
through what we call purification of
Consciousness once the material body is
no longer useful you're then living in
that full spiritual consciousness would
be a spiritual form a form that is not
doesn't bleed when you cut it it doesn't
get damaged it doesn't get hurt it is an
eternal form that doesn't have those
needs or
um
fallibilities I guess is the right word
so if in the Christian tradition there
is this place called Heaven which at
least is sort of like a physical place
that the spirit goes and lives out it
stays and you will be reunited yeah
admittedly I'm not a Christian uh
theologist so I'm sure I'm getting some
of this wrong
um but there's at least in popular
culture there's the idea if you
transcend into heaven it's a place yeah
there are people that you know and love
you're reunited so there's a sense of
recreating still the physical world just
in a non-physical form it's what at
least in
um design circles you call skeuomorphic
yeah so you're taking what you know and
even though you're trying to imagine
something completely different you tend
to cram it in to the same thing right so
we imagine in clouds and stuff like that
yeah
what's that version in The Vedic
tradition yeah so The Vedic tradition is
there is a Eternal Divine relationship
with the Supreme Being and that in this
space everyone has that unique
experience and unique relationship with
each other and Divinity so would you
meet rathi again in that space uh
hopefully if we both make it back
um I yeah and Robbie's definitely a good
baggage yeah I take that back yeah
Rodney's good
um but uh not necessarily as my partner
not as the way I see her here as as a
completely different version to what I
see here because this is just simply one
Lifetime on a notch of lifetimes and
does that at all inform your marriage
that informs our marriage in the
beautiful sense of the Detachment with
the love
in the sense of there's a feeling of I
love this person I'm so glad I found
them in this lifetime to do this life
with to serve in this way to have this
impact to choose to want a better
Humanity to leave it a better happier
healthier place to leave it a more
healed place that unites us in a in a
profound way that I couldn't have have
with anyone else who didn't feel that
way about it and at the same time it
detaches me from recognizing
you know this isn't everything either
and that's okay like it's you know let's
not make this the be all and end-all of
everything either like this is just one
experience it's one aspect and so I
think there's this beautiful connection
within healthy Detachment that comes
from both and the ultimate understanding
that she's not my property she does not
belong to me I don't own her and that
she's on her own Journey too and that
that journey is the most important
Journey that I'm supporting her on and
this journey is the most important
Journey she's supporting me on beyond
all the other stuff that we're doing
together like that's the journey we've
committed to so I think it has a
profound impact on on how we conduct Our
Lives it stops you from snipping the
flower absolutely and even though me and
you have very different overall and
that's why I've always found fascinating
sit down with you
even though me and you have very
different systems of overall belief or
philosophy of like what our container is
of how we view life we approach life far
more similarly uh than many people I
know like I consider myself to be highly
and Allah as you said in the book we
have fight Stars we have the
relationship roles like there's so much
tactical practical stuff in the book
because that's how I view life too I
view life as highly strategic
uh but with a spiritual lens and and I
think that it's I find that really
interesting how we're both trying to
approach life through strategy through
systems through processes despite having
you know me having much more of a
philosophical and I guess uh intangible
view of reality do you know Donald
Hoffman I don't as in from the Hoffman
process no no I don't know what that is
so uh this may be why although you
probably push back on this so as
somebody who's agnostic meaning I I
literally just don't know I have no idea
what the the truth is I don't think
anyone does and I kind of live with that
like I people always ask me like where
do you see yourself I'm like I don't
know either but I'm
having read the Theology and
spirituality in the modern day new age
everything that I have
I'm betting on this and so it's simply a
hypothesis and I'm very open about that
I'm very cool with that because I just
think life is a hypothesis pretty much
everything I do every day is a
hypothesis there's no genuine truth that
I can say that I know for a fact that
this is what happens when this happens
including doing this interview including
whatever writing this book like what
comes from it is so different and so
diverse then you could expect so I live
my life in an hypothesis so I've studied
plenty of books and researched and
spoken to people and sat with teachers
and sat with Masters and I've come up
with what I believe is my hypothesis
based on that experience and I think
Everyone's entitled to their hypothesis
and I that's why I don't consider myself
with you I always end up talking about
some of my own beliefs or values or
philosophies that I identify with but
why I Don't Preach them or why I don't
impart them on others is because that's
not my goal right my goal is to help
people navigate reality in what we can
see feel and hear and then I have my own
set of beliefs and values that guide my
moral compass the girls are not the ones
I'm imparting those are not what people
are being exposed to because I see them
as two separate things my compass on a
deeper level is different to the work
I'm doing in the world to help people
navigate this this is all based on fact
and truth and experience and you know
reality the book is based on nothing
like a monk is based on that but the
beliefs that I have are a hypothesis
those are not the ones I'm sharing I
love that yeah where can people follow
you as you explore your hypothesis
the best place right now is um eight
rulesoflove.com that is the place to
find my new book eight rules of Love uh
which will guide you through everything
from Finding Love keeping love dealing
with heartbreak and then finding love
again uh that would be the best place to
find me right now I love it yeah thank
you boys and girls if you haven't
already be sure to subscribe and until
next time my friends be legendary take
care peace thank you
if you're feeling lost and lazy be sure
to check out this next episode for the
keys to getting your life on track what
what is it that I plan to do with the
money
the money in and of itself it's inert it
just sits there I'm sure you guys have a
bunch of it in your pocket right now and
it doesn't do anything but it has latent
potential but the question is what are
you going to do with that potential