Kind: captions
Language: en
this distinction between chronic caloric
restriction and fasting
um
that I find really interesting and led
us for the sake of this discussion
assume that we have a person who is
willing to endure an unlimited amount of
suffering
um and you even you've talked a lot
about the book Unbroken that you read
about World War II people in Japanese
concentration camps and they were
literally being starved and obviously
all of them got lean so what I want to
understand is okay fasting seems to have
all these tremendous benefits
chronic caloric restriction has some but
also has like this really damaging
psychological component if there was no
damaging psychological component
would they be equal or is there still
some difference
it all depends on how you do the caloric
restriction so because it's not just
about the calories it's about the
hormones right so you have to sort of
take it not to sort of this two
compartment problem you have to take it
to like a three compartment problem
right there's what's coming in there's
what's stored and there's what's being
used okay so most people only think of
sort of the two compartments and then
the storage is sort of left over that's
not the way the Body Works
if insulin is high your body is going to
store calories remember insulin is a
nutrient sensor it tells your body that
hey energy is coming in you're eating
you need to store some of this right and
so so you eat breakfast lunch dinner you
get somebody on a low calorie diet like
if you were on 700 calories a day but I
gave you insulin could I make you fat
yeah absolutely whoa
because think about it this way if you
have insulin your body and so if you
think about it physiologically
if you have insulin your body goes into
a storage mode because it's a hormone
insulin is a hormone it tells your body
food is coming in and even if you don't
give food if you just give insulin
you're going to switch your body into
this mode where it thinks that food is
coming in so it's going to store energy
so imagine that for example you are a
coal you know a coal uh plants right the
power plant you get 2 000 tons of coal
coming in and you burn 2 000 tons of
coal that's fine if you have a storage
compartment too so if you're you know if
you do a thought experiment say say you
have 2 000 tons of coal coming in but
you divert the whole thing over to uh or
a thousand tons of coal into storage
well you only have a thousand left so
you're going to feel tired and cold and
hungry and you're going to get fat at
the same time right that's what's going
to happen but it's because of the way
that you've diverted off the energy so
think about it from a human body
standpoint suppose you have 2 000
calories coming in 2 000 calories going
out now you artificially inject insulin
well you shuttle a thousand calories
immediately into body fat and you have a
thousand calories left
to burn well what's going to happen your
your body heat generation is going to go
down your heart rate is going to slow
you're going to feel tired you're going
to feel hungry because you want to get
more energy right that's the signal for
you to get more energy so that you can
get more you can burn more guess what
that's exactly what happens when you go
on a chronic calorie restricted diet
and the the point is that if you do it
correctly and you you correct that
insulin part of things so that none of
it's going into storage and you can't do
that with chronic calorie restriction
you certainly can but you have to know
that you have to do it properly like
cutting out
processed foods cutting out refined
carbohydrates that kind of thing but it
all depends on that sort of that sort of
toggle in the middle that says how much
goes here how much grease here insulin
what it does is it tells your body to
store fat but it also turns off fat
burning remember fat is purely a store
of energy it's a store of calories so
you're immediately shuttling all your
energy into storage and you have nothing
left
so say you take uh 700 calories that
you're pumping people full of insulin so
that energy is going to go into into uh
storage and 700 is probably the lower
limit of what you could really do but
your body would then try to subsist on
say five six hundred calories of energy
you get really hungry because you're
you've got no energy coming in you
probably wouldn't be able to last very
long but you can still gain weight
there's a great experiment a few years
ago where they actually took the type 2
diabetics and they gave them a lot of
insulin so they went from zero units a
day to 100 units a day over a span of
six months which is a lot and they
dropped the number of calories that they
ate by 300 okay so they're taking
insulin but they're eating less 700 300
calories a day less
so over the span of six months on
average that group gained 20 pounds
20 pounds by eating 300 calories a day
less why because so let's take an
example you're eating 2 000 calories you
go down to 1700 but the insulin is
shuttling 700 of that immediately off to
storage so you're gaining body fat now
your body can only burn 1 000 calories a
day so you feel like crap you feel tired
you feel hungry and you're still gaining
weight and guess what if you do it wrong
which is constantly snacking and eating
cutting out all the dietary fat and
eating all refined carbohydrates which
remember is almost precisely what we
told people to do in the 80s and 90s oh
I remember it well yeah actually
I had a tub of licorice because it was
fat free and I would just eat it and eat
it I'm like it's fat free what's
happening why am I getting fat yeah that
was a very confusing time it makes
perfect sense from like because but you
have to think of that additional step
that is what is the body actually doing
it's this sort of flip the switch so
when you eat your storing body fat what
you don't eat when insulin is going down
you're going to burn body fat you're
actually going to you can't burn body
fat if insulin is high it technically we
say it inhibits lipolis let's ask then
the reverse question so I fully accept
that all food is a signaling molecule
That's triggering a Some Cascade of
hormones
I know what to do if I want to store a
lot of fat I'm going to eat a lot of
processed carbohydrates that are going
to remove all my Society mechanisms and
it's going to spike my blood glucose
like crazy my body's gonna pump a bunch
of insulin to make sure that that gets
pulled out of the bloodstream I'm going
to get fat okay
is there a diet that's optimized on the
exact opposite side where I'm taking in
a very satiating amount of calories but
it's dropping my insulin or failing to
trigger my insulin is maybe the right
way to think of it and therefore I'm
eating maybe more than your average bear
but I'm actually getting leaner
certainly lots of them uh there and the
principles are much the same one is you
want to avoid sugar because sugar the
way that we process fructose is sort of
particularly bad and that's why sugar is
particularly fattening really and that's
that's true if you're a bear you're
eating a lot of ripe berries and stuff
because you're trying to gain fat and
it's also true as anybody knows if
you're eating a lot of cookies and
brownies you're probably going to gain
weight the
um the other thing is you can't eat all
the time because again it's a cycle
between feeding and fasting that's what
we're supposed to do if you don't give
your body time to burn off all those
calories that it's taken in which means
the fasting period you're gonna overall
gain weight it's like a one-way valve if
you go in but don't come out eventually
everything just gets bigger same thing
that energy cannot come out if your
insulin levels are high that's just the
way it's designed and it's sort of like
you know if you see a tanker you know
those tanker trucks on the side of the
road sometimes you think oh they'll
never run out of fuel because they have
all this fuel but they do run out of
fuel of course because you can't access
that fuel that's in that big container
same thing with your body fat right it's
locked away if you do not lower your
insulin levels you will never have
access to those stores of energy
once you lower it hey all that energy
just comes flowing in and and for people
who are who are on Long who have done
longer fast and this is what's so
interesting about the whole process when
you actually do it is that the hunger
starts to go down significantly the
psychological hunger goes up because
people are like oh I really want to eat
that but the physical hunger actually
tends to go down meaning it's measured
by things like ghrelin or whatever so
hunger hormones and so on and and people
you talk to people and you know I've
done it live I know lots of people have
done it and they they all say the same
thing by day three day four the hunger
is almost completely disappeared and why
is that well because you're fueling
yourself from your body fat stores and
therefore you actually have no no need
to eat it's it's it's it's an
interesting process which people never
think about but it's completely
physiologic
yeah so I've done my longest fast was
five days
I've done many fasts that are 24 hours
to 72 hours I find 72 while not pleasant
I find it relatively easy I don't
decline in performance but day four and
five I do and I'm super curious to know
if I am doing something wrong like am I
supposed to be supplementing and I'm
talking a true water only fast
um
should I be eating salt should I be
taking magnesium like what what is it
yeah everybody's different certainly
some people salt is probably the main
thing people get into trouble with
because we're on a relatively high salt
diet and then to go to a sort of zero
which is water only zero salt is a bit
of a transition sometimes so some people
find that their pressure blood pressure
goes low
um and uh that that makes them not feel
so good so a lot of people have found
better from taking salt either salt and
water or just the salt the like a under
their tongue even magnesium is another
one that that tendo low and some people
find it helpful to supplement there as
well the other things that people find
useful is to take some broth for example
which is going to give you it's not a
true fast none of these I was gonna say
that sounds like cheating to me yeah
they're they're sort of like um I call
them variants because they're not the
water only fast is really a true fast
but you can get a lot of the benefits by
taking some of these other things and it
makes it easier so it's a sort of a
trade-off it's sort of like Bulletproof
Coffee which is of course not fasting
but it's a very very pure sort of fat
and therefore it's going to provide a
lot of satiety and then that you go
through the day maybe it allows you to
go long and overall you might wind up
positive in terms of uh weight loss and
so on so lots of people certainly have
found that useful not everybody but
certainly it's it's that but water only
fast can be more difficult because of
the associated electrolyte uh problems
your body is supposed to handle it
but it doesn't always sure so if we're
looking at longevity and we want to
prolong life as much as possible and
anti-cancer in fact this might be the
perfect transition into your uh
brilliant synthesis of what's going on
from cancer Paradigm 1.0 to 2.0 to 3.0 I
found that absolutely fascinating in
your new book cancer code it was subtle
and yet changes everything and if you
can just like give a quick sort of
thesis on that one two three thing I
think that really help people yeah yeah
and and you know I'm not the one who
made it up I just was the one to sort of
explain it sort of in an accessible way
and honestly it's It's the Most
Fascinating story in medicine today I
think is cancer because it's undergone
this tremendous change in the last sort
of 10 20 years and no one even talks
about it and what I talk about is sort
of the these modern paradigms of cancer
so the way that we look at cancer and
the reason they're important is because
they determine what sort of treatments
we use so the first sort of modern
Paradigm of cancer is sort of this
cancer is a cell that grows too much so
you have breast cancer for example you
have a breast cell now something happens
to that normal breast cell okay so it
starts off as a normal cell but somehow
mutates into this breast cancer cell or
this lung cancer cell and this lung
cancer cell then grows and grows and
grows and then it moves around and
spreads or this is called metastasis
then you die so the first Paradigm is
hey this is a cell that grows too much
so therefore our treatments are actually
ways to kill cells and that's the sort
of core of modern oncology is to cut it
out which is surgery you can burn it
with radiation or you can poison it with
chemotherapy chemotherapy is really
nothing more than a selective toxin it
kills some cells faster than it kills
another cell so that's why you have
these horrific side effects their hair
falls out they nauseated all the stuff
you think about with chemotherapy is
because the idea of chemotherapy is to
kill the cancer slightly faster than you
kill the patient that's really it it's a
selective toxin but that's the Paradigm
and it makes sense from that you know
because if it's if it's growing too much
then kill it that's basically it now
that reaches limits probably by the 60s
and by then we're talking about genetics
so everybody started to look at genetics
and then that's the sort of next huge
paradigm shift is that we were trying to
understand at a deeper level not we
weren't saying that cancer cells didn't
grow the question we're trying to ask is
why are they growing and so we said well
the answer now is that they have genetic
mutations that lets them grow too much
and sure enough when we looked we found
these onko genes and tumor suppressor
genes so genes that control growth and
when this cell gets a mutation in one of
these critical genes then it would grow
too much and that made perfect sense
so the point of of something like lung
cancer and smoking because we know
smoking for you know clearly causes lung
cancer
smoking is not a targeted mutation
device it's very non-specific you're
just creating damage all over the place
so what they said was that this is a
random genetic mutation so you're just
creating damage in the genome and if
you're damaging a lot you're getting a
lot of chances to hit this critical
growth Gene area and it's going to let
cells grow so this was the the genetic
Paradigm which really has dominated
cancer medicine for the last 50 years
and so instead of trying to kill cells
this led to new treatments and instead
of trying to kill cells we're trying to
correct the genes that controlled it and
the first few drugs of the sort of
genetic Paradigm were just amazing so by
the 2000s we were like we are going to
cure cancer so we did this whole Human
Genome Project we said all we need to do
is map out all the genes look at the
cancers map out those genes and see
what's different we're going to find one
or two genetic mutations we're going to
find a drug to cure that one or two
genetic mutations boom we're going to
cure cancer and that was really what we
thought at the time it was a time of
incredible promise but it didn't work
that was
like if you look at the number of
genetic treatments of cancer that really
made a difference you're talking maybe
five right in the last 40 years five
really good drugs that's not a lot and
that's a long way from curing cancer
and the problem is when we went back so
they did the Human Genome Project then
they did this cancer genome Atlas
where they mapped out all these genes
they took 30 000 cancers mapped out the
genes and said what are the one or two
critical genetic mutations they didn't
find one or two each cancer had like 50
or 100 genetic mutations and and it was
crazy because if you had a Cancer Clinic
where one patient had lung cancer so
patient a had lung cancer patient B had
lung cancer
patient A's lung cancer had 50 mutations
patient B had 50 mutations completely
different mutations
so how are you going to treat this you
can't get 50 drugs for patient a and 50
completely new drugs per patient B it's
just impossible and that's why cancer
treatment just sort of slowed to an
absolute crawl I was just uh you know a
huge amount of disappointment
um and that sort of spelled the end it
wasn't a random genetic mutation so it
wasn't that genes weren't mutated it was
what is driving these mutations and that
sort of spawned this whole next paradigm
shift to cancer Paradigm 3 which so few
people people talk about and I don't
understand why because I I find it
endlessly fascinating and what we were
trying to do we weren't trying to uh
invalidate that these genetic mutations
because clearly these genes had
mutations what we're trying to
understand was once again try and get to
that one level deeper of why why are
these genes mutating and the totally
fascinating answer that they came up
with is that it was an evolutionary
process not a forward moving
evolutionary process it was a backwards
evolutionary process towards a more
primitive form of our cell which was
there from Evolution and what's fast is
that if you look at Pathologists like
the way that people who look under the
the microscope at cells that is exactly
how they describe cancer cells primitive
uh undifferentiated like gotta use you
use an analogy or a metaphor in the book
about a bear and a tutu that I thought
oh my God like it lets you conceptualize
what this is so perfectly will you walk
people through that
yeah and the point is that the cancer is
actually a reversion to a more primitive
form of the cell and it's a sort of like
if you have a wild bear you can raise it
and teach it to dance and wear a tutu
but it's still a wild animal so if you
provoke it it'll still kill you like
it'll still wear a tutu but it'll still
kill you so it reverts to being that
wild animal and our cells are very much
like that so we came from unicellular
organisms so all of us sort of evolved
from small bacterias and so on fungi and
so on and under the right conditions
these cells actually undergo an
evolutionary process back towards this
more survivalist sort of primitive cell
a single-celled organism its primary
mandate is to compete with other cells
as opposed to a multicellular organism
which its mandate is cooperation and
they are fundamentally against each
other as we move from cellular
competition to Cellular cooperation we
had to put on all these instructions on
top these genetic instructions to
suppress all these competitive urges
when you cause genetic damage and strip
away you damage all these sort of
controlling layers
what shines through is that competitive
nature and then the cells those cancer
cells actually behave exactly like
unicellular organisms and that's
fascinating again because our own immune
system has actually identified these
cells as foreign cells like there are
you know immune cells in our body that
identify sort of self our own Cells
versus other cells so you avoid Friendly
Fire and cancer cells are actually
identified intrinsically without being
having seen them ever before your own
body will identify these as foreign
cells and Destroy them and that's really
the reason why we don't have cancer sort
of uh with 99 of the population because
when you suppress the immune system of
course you increase your risk
significantly of developing these
cancers because it's our immune system
which is playing that anti-cancer role
so what you're trying to do is weed out
so our body has these very efficient
anticancer mechanisms where we go around
and we're hunting down these sort of you
know anarchists and stuff trying to
these people who are not going to follow
the rules who are who are competitors
not Cooperators we try and hunt those
down and we kill them so that we stay
cancer-free it's only at the end of you
know only with time uh when stuff falls
through or with chronic damage such as
with lung uh lung cancer for example the
smoking that that you're damaging the
genome and those controlling organisms
and allowing to shine through which is
called an activism which explains a huge
amount like that this Theory just
explains so much about cancer because if
you think about
say let's take lung cancer again so you
have 50 mutations in patient a 50
different mutations in cancer in in
patient B but their lung cancers look
exactly the same under the microscope
how does that happen like if you have a
hundred mutations your cell should look
completely different than this other guy
cell yet they look precisely the same
under the microscope it's because it was
the original sort of cell You're simply
stripping stuff away you're not adding
mutations on you're actually stripping
those away and what's fascinating is
that the genetic so all this genetic
stuff that we've done when you look at
the mutations of cancer they're all
concentrated in this area which is the
the the difference between unicellular
and multicellular organisms so they did
these studies where they take all the
genes and they say let's rank them by
evolutionary age so these are the
ancient genes these are the recent genes
and they put them on and then they say
where are the cancer
mutations the truth is hitting your
career goals is not easy you have to be
willing to go the extra mile to stand
out and do hard things better than
anybody else but there are 10 steps I
want to take you through that will 100x
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link in today's description alright my
friend back to today's episode they're
all clustered right around the point
between unicellular and multicellular
organisms I'm like that is so
interesting so then of course the reason
it's important is because now you have
if this is an evolutionary problem if
these are actually unicellular organisms
well now we actually have ways to fight
these unicellular organisms and that's
our immune system and that's to this
sort of explosion and interest in
immunotherapy because we're not trying
to kill cells with immunotherapy we're
not trying to
um we're not trying to fix genetic
mutations what we're trying to do is
treat these cancers like a foreign
species like an invasive foreign species
and be able to identify them and also
bolster our own immune system to attack
them but now you're getting a totally
different Paradigm because you're the
concept of what this disease is it's an
evolutionary disease
which requires immune system to fight it
because that's our own defenses that's
fascinating like that's a totally
different Paradigm and such an
interesting uh way to look at it and
it's going to lead to all these new
treatments so in the book I talk about
immunotherapy we talk about the obscopal
effect which is how radiation plus
immunotherapy may actually help unearth
these things we talk about adaptive
therapy where
perhaps you don't have to give maximally
tolerated doses of chemotherapy because
you may not need it it may be more
effective to use smaller doses
all stems from the understanding of The
evolutionary Paradigm of cancer as
opposed to the genetic Paradigm of
cancer where you would never be able to
understand why these treatments that are
coming up now are going to be effective
man this this is really feels and you
talk about sort of the hope this brings
in the book and it really does feel
hopeful you know because if you've
pursued something to a dead end it's
like until you have another path to go
down it's a pretty ugly place to be one
of the things that you outline in the
book that I thought was really
enlightening is what it is exactly the
you talk about the seed in the soil so
what is it about our Modern Life that
creates this soil that stresses the cell
just enough that it is like sort of in
scramble mode of whoa I have to I'm
constantly looking for this new mutation
or stack of mutations it's going to
allow me some path through this
cigarette smoke this dietary problem
this whatever
um if you can walk people through what
we've sort of done to the soil and
please if you can't mention the when you
talked about the bomb in in Hiroshima
and Nagasaki how they were expecting a
certain cancer rate but they didn't get
it and why that is so interesting yeah I
thought I thought so too thanks this
concept is that you need both genetics
as well as the environment like both are
important I'm not saying one is more
important but you have to have a seed
which is obviously all the genetic
material that you need to become a plant
for example but you have to plant it in
the right soil so you take a seed you
put it in the desert it doesn't grow you
put a seed put it in proper soil and
give it water it grows so cancer
the seed is there in every single one of
our cells
in not just us but every animal
practically that we know has that seed
of cancer because cancer of course is
our sort of genetic ancestor that that
was the unicellular organism from way
way back
yeah exactly the selfish sort of the
unicellular organism but that seed of
cancer is there luckily if we prevent it
from growing by using the proper soil we
can actually prevent it and you look at
these things that cause
um you know cause cancer they're called
carcinogens uh turns out our diet is one
of the biggest ones so other than
tobacco smoke
diet is sort of way up there and when
you look at carcinogens there's a
specific sort of thing that have to be
chronic and they have to be sort of
sub-leafly damaging which is the point
about Hiroshima that is radiation we
know causes cancer for sure so when they
drop the atomic bomb they thought man
we're going to get a lot of cancers
coming down the pipes but it was a
single large dose of radiation not a
chronic low dose of radiation which does
cause a lot of cancer so they did these
Atomic uh they did these studies where
they followed people for for years and
years and there was a little bit of
extra cancer but like on on average way
less so when they estimate how many
months of you know months or years of
life lost it was like two months
something like that so people these
people were living like 82 years and
they estimate that that that Atomic
radiation maybe cost them like two
months of Life way less because we are
thinking that these people are going to
get
you know cancers at age 20 sort of thing
and that didn't happen because it wasn't
this chronic thing and that the reason
it has to be chronic is that cancer is
an evolutionary process if you do not
have chronic selection pressure you
don't get this change if you just change
the mutations and you need they're going
to be random and they need to occur over
time
they have to occur continuously because
that's the way that selection Pressure
Works in an evolution in a population of
cells that is if you if you select for
certain cells and do it once that's not
going to be that effective if you keep
selecting for those cells like you only
take the the the the cells that are sort
of survivalists which are the the sort
of more primitive cells then you over
time you're going to select the
population that's going to have more of
those sort of survivalist cells if you
have a single event
there's no further selection pressure
that is uh if you look at you know if
you look at evolution of species it's
the same thing you can't simply have one
event it has to be a continuous
selection pressure that produces that
change and that's why it has to be a
chronic thing so it's tobacco smoking
for example you look at viruses so if
you have a single terrible virus like
hepatitis A which is causes feminent
hepatic failure it kills you but it
doesn't give you cancer as opposed to
Hepatitis B which is a chronic virus it
doesn't kill you but it certainly does
give you cancer H pylori in the stomach
for example a very low-grade chronic
infection is what gives you cancer not a
single sort of feminine episode of of
inflammation that doesn't give you
cancer so
um you know all of these these sort of
things UV light and so on they're all
chronic damage and that's part of that
soil and diet plays a huge role and the
promise of course is that if you look at
traditional populations like when they
looked at populations that live very
simply so very low sugar very natural
foods they weren't eating all the time
very little obesity so people in Africa
that they had studied Dennis Burkett in
the 50s and 60s and then in the Inuit
people which live in the far north for
example
they used to say
these Expeditions up to the Arctic
Circle to find why these these native
peoples these Inuit were immune to
cancer then of course they became
civilized we gave them you know sugar we
gave them white flour because they
didn't go bad then they got all the same
cancers turns out they weren't immune at
all it was their environment it was the
soil that was so important but the
promise is that if you can fix that soil
that means you could actually
overcome the genetics
not in all cases but in many cases
especially of these obesity Associated
cancers the breast cancer colorectal and
so on and that's the sort of really
important thing in the sort of take-home
message for a lot of people is that the
diet actually plays a massive role and
by understanding it perhaps you can
reduce your risk of cancer and that's
where fasting as a way to control your
weight as a way to control type 2
diabetes which is a risk factor as those
are going to lower the risk factor for
obesity which is a big risk factor for
those obesity Associated cancers but
it's your lifestyle that's going to play
a big role not necessarily some drug
that's or anything like that so it's all
in your own hands it's amazing
that that is truly amazing now as one
sort of final point on this
is is The Chronic stressor is that
simply being tipped into growth mode or
is it inflammation coupled with the fact
that we're tipped into growth mode like
what is it specifically about our diet
that's causing this perfect soil for
mutations over time
um that leads to cancer
I think they're I think both are are
correct so if you have a chronic
hyperinsulinemia insulin is a very
powerful growth factor uh inflammation
as a cause of chronic damage in itself
will cause cancer so you look at the
disease such as ulcerative colitis or
Crohn's colitis these are called the
so-called inflammatory bowel diseases
there's this chronic inflammation in the
bowel and what you get is a super high
risk of cancer down the down the line so
both inflammation and hyperinsulinemia
and obesity all of them are risk factors
and this is the important thing is that
there's a lot of different things that
can contribute to the risk of cancer
it's not just that if one is right then
the other is wrong I mean both are
correct so if you eat foods that are
highly inflammatory and a lot of people
feel that for example omega-6 seed oils
perhaps are in in these big doses that
we take perhaps those are highly
inflammatory that even if it doesn't
cause obesity could be a factor because
we know inflammation chronic
inflammation can certainly do that so
both can be very important we really
recommend there's two types of fasting
there's there's short-term intermittent
fasting which we recommend people do
every day that everybody fast every day
for between 12 and 16 hours depending on
what your target is and that means that
you don't eat at least three hours
before you go to sleep hopefully going
to sleep at a reasonable hour and so
that gives you 12 to 16 hours of fasting
and eight hour feeding window we
recommend that that in that eight hour
feeding window that the you know whole
natural food diet that you eat excludes
all the chemicals in the processed foods
and the other stuff and in doing that
you get the quantity and quality of
nutrients you need and you give yourself
a 16 per hour period of fasting every
day and cumulatively that's thought to
induce changes and and stimulate factors
that are that promote healing it also
helps minimize overeating and so you
know the net effect of that intermittent
fasting which virtually everybody can do
safely on their own is something we
recommend and then periodically we
recommend people take a longer period of
time to do water only fasting in our
Clinic we fast people from 5 to 40 days
and so typically faster two three four
weeks of time that needs to be done in
America only for people that are obese
no no not at all in fact most of our
patients uh it's high blood pressure
diabetes autoimmune diseases lymphoma
and we have also healthy people that are
just coming in for a shorter period of
time like a week the reason we talk
about Supervision in that regard is
number one not everybody's a good
candidate for fasting some people should
not be fasting give me something
candidates
well if people have for example Cranium
levels over 2.0 their kidney function
isn't adequate putting them on a fast
could shut their kidneys down result in
kidney failure and death
um if they have sorry I've never heard
that but why would your kidney shot
because when you go on a fast you
massively mobilize a detoxification
response and the kidneys can only
process so much material and if you
overload the kidneys you end up with a
kidney failure situation and that's you
know you've heard recently there's been
people that have tried dry fasting and
dry fasting particularly puts a heavy
load on the kidney and there was a death
associated with one of its proponents
just because you know you have to have a
solute in order for the kidneys to
function you have to have a way of
getting the material that's mobilized
out of the system why does fasting
trigger detoxification
well if you think about it when you're
going on a fast there's nothing for the
body to do except mobilize its reserves
and in water fasting particularly in a
resting state those reserves are
predominantly fat in fact we've done a
study recently at the True North Health
Center where we've used a dexa scanner
with a software that allows to do whole
body composition we've determined not
only is mostly fat mobilized during
water only fasting but specifically and
preferentially visceral fat
so a person might lose say for example
20 of their adipose tissue but they'll
lose 50 60 percent of their of their
visceral fat which is really exciting
much faster than for example being on a
a low carbohydrate diet in terms of the
ratio of visceral fat mobilization to uh
subcutaneous fat and in that fat
contains a lot of fat soluble materials
and that's where a lot of toxins are
stored when those fats are mobilized you
get a increasing load pcbs dioxin
pesticide residues Etc all these fat
soluble nutrients are rapidly mobilized
processed and eliminated but you need to
have the capacity to actually eliminate
materials and most of those materials
are eliminated in the urine that's the
blood being processed by the kidneys and
if you do a fat bopsy on any person
you'll find hundreds of different
chemicals in various concentrations and
if you track back how did those
chemicals get in the body where did they
come from obviously if people take drugs
or they smoke and they drink alcohol and
they eat foods from the environment that
are polluted that's a 10 potential
Source but about 90 percent According to
some researchers got there from one
behavior and that's eating animal Foods
animals biologically concentrate the
toxins from their environment so a
calorie of animal food could have two to
a thousand times the concentration of a
given chemical compared to say a
plant-based Food calorie and so the
consumption of large amounts of animal
food potentially exposed people to
proportionally higher ratios of these
materials and it's also why people on
very high animal food diets often have a
much more difficult time adapting to the
fasting State initially because there's
just literally more to process and
eliminate but it does and so that's
particular I might mention true of
refined animal products just like
refined plant products have particular
problems so I think we need to be clear
that it's actually these highly
processed foods of any kind that seem to
be the biggest sources of concentration
of of chemicals it's not necessarily the
brown rice that's the main problem that
might be the rice syrup or it's the
products that the highly concentrated
products that result in the largest
concentrations of materials on
undesirable materials when you fast
though the body rapidly mobilizes these
materials if you fast and exercise them
once you've depleted your glycogen
stores after say 24 or 48 Hours the only
way the body would get the needed
glucose to maintain muscle activity or
excess brain activity would be through
gluconeogenesis you'd have to break down
proteins in order to get that so what
happens is if you fast and exercise you
actually lose more weight but more of
its lean tissue if you fast and rest you
you mobilize predominantly fat and
specifically and preferentially visceral
fat so in addition to making sure a
person's a good candidate for fasting
with a History exam and lab we also need
to make sure they rest during fasting
now there's modified fasting when you
take a certain amount of calories
therefore you have more glucose
available you're able to you know
minimize gluconeogenesis that's a
different process water only fasting
though needs to be done resting if
you're going to maximize detox preserve
lean tissue and maximize fat loss and
that we've been able to prove now in a
we've actually done this and we've done
you know before during after fasting six
week follow-ups we've got the data and
so we can put a lot of the old wives
tales to rest that paper will be
published later this year and and I
think that'll really make people aware
of just why this rest which is so
contrain to people trying to maximize
weight loss is important with fasting
and you know if the goal is to really
detoxify the best way to do it is Prep
properly before fasting really important
people that try to say quit coffee at
the same time they're going on a fast
really undermine themselves because the
caffeine withdrawal is actually quite
difficult fasting isn't so difficult if
you prep well all of a sudden fasting
doesn't even look that hard people go to
cooking classes they're interact they go
down to the dining room they interact
with people even on these long fast two
three four five weeks and they're do
they do fine but they are resting and so
resting in some ways is a little bit
harder but it's more effective I say
it's harder because you'll detox more
you'll feel worse but we don't care how
you feel we care how well you get so if
you you feel bad and fasting doesn't
bother me as long as you get well you'll
totally forgive us and so next time you
fast you want to make sure you rest
during that doesn't mean you can't do
some stretching you can't do meditation
there's things you can do but they're
more passive and then you look at how
your recovery is plus fasting you'll
find it's really quite fabulous because
not only you get rid of the inflammation
and the joint pain and some of the
chronic injuries but then you recover
quickly and we and we're able to
demonstrate that quantitatively now as
as lean tissue recovers fat continues to
go down after fasting so you're losing
fat you're losing fat you continue lose
fat even though you're regaining quote
weight because glycogen water fiber and
muscle come back after fasting fat does
not what's interesting is you have two
pounds of glycogen so you know you're
going to get that two pound back you've
got fiber that has to go back in the gut
unless you're eating an all meat diet
then there is no fiber and there's also
hydration there's a physiological
dehydration with fasting now that's more
when you're exercising you dehydrate
more so it looks like you're losing more
weight but all you're doing is
dehydrating why are you dehydrating if
you're drinking water
it doesn't matter if you're drinking
water if it's you hold it in the cells
there's a physiological adaptation to
fasting where there's a natural
dehydration State it's probably part of
the conservation mechanism there's a lot
of weird things that happen very
contrain
fasting like for example you know we
talked about exercise increasing brain
derived neurotrophic factor that
preserves the brain and protects the
nervous system it also increases in
fasting you think about exercise you're
vigorously active fasting you're laying
on your around and not doing much they
both are changing these same things in
the same way it's it's really really
um
non-intuitive but when we look at the
science if we look at the data and then
we look at the clinical outcomes it's
really apparent and now we're tracking
people 30 35 years I've got people now
that are in their 80s that we started
off in their 50s and they all say the
same thing including my mother who at 92
had outlived all 50 of her lifelong
friends every one of her friends was
dead she was alone and she said Alan you
need to warn your patient if they're
going to do this diet make younger
friends
so I'm telling people starting right now
make younger friends so when you're
older and you're still around you know
they'll you'll have people to interact
with that I mean you know still
heartbreaking but good problem to have
so talk to me about the longer duration
fast so I know that the longest fast is
like 280 days or I mean just something
absolutely absurd so I knew that it was
physiologically possible but I imagined
it was more proportional to the amount
of body fat that you have but like
somebody with a normal BMI
um maybe we'll Peg them at something
like 15 body fat how long can they fast
water right so an a 155 pound 70
kilogram male okay could go 70 days the
problem is once you get through fasting
you enter a process called starvation
and now once you enter starvation
there's a relatively short period of
time and then you die we don't do that
because it would really be bad for our
outcome data so we're very careful to
avoid that we've had 20 000 walking in
20 000 people walk out we are experts at
not letting people enter into starvation
the other thing with fasting while we're
talking about risks is the refeeding
period if you have a long period of
fasting and you refeed inappropriately
you can get a condition called refeeding
syndrome which can be fatal it's a very
serious problem where electrolyte
balances and all kinds of stuff can
occur we've never seen that because we
have a very specific refeeding protocol
that's followed and we refeed for a
period of no less than half the length
of the fast in a controlled setting so
it is it is important you can also get a
condition called post-fasting edema when
you get off all the greasy salty
processed crap that people are living on
and you do a fast all that gets flushed
out of the body if you then expose a
person to very high concentrations of
sodium like in commercial soups or
something like that the body will suck
that material and fluid up to protect
itself from it and that can result in
post-fasting edema if you do it slowly
you can get back to whatever your normal
diet was without that problem but it has
to happen over a period of time so
there's a refeeding period that's
important particularly in this long-term
fasting you know in the three day the
five day fast for most people that's not
going to result in you know as much of
it of an issue they may get a belly ache
if they eat eat too much food but
they're not going to get the very
serious consequences as you can see in
very long-term fasting now the other
concern here is of course medications
some medications you don't want to
rapidly discontinue
anticoagulant medication steroid
medications any psychotic medications
the rapid withdrawal of those
medications can induce a very serious or
life-threatening response some
medications you want to get off as soon
as possible but you don't want to be
taking those medications during fasting
so medications that might not do that
much Dam damage feeding can be very
serious fasting even non-sterily
anti-inflammatories in common
over-the-counter medications in the
fasting State strongly contraindicated
result in all kinds of Downstream
consequences
supplementation is included lots of
complications in the fasting State
whereas you wouldn't necessarily see any
problem in the feeding State that's one
of the reasons we talk about making sure
before a person undertakes a long-term
fast they have appropriate History exam
and lab remember 99 of patients have no
complications with fasting but one
percent can have very serious
complications important that percentage
be identified monitored so you don't end
with bad outcomes because that's what
gives fasting a bad name is people doing
it inappropriately they continue to work
they get dehydrated which is one of the
main issues with fasting is maintaining
adequate hydration and drinking water
itself won't assure that in fact
drinking too much water can flush your
electrolytes out and result in
water intoxication so if we do not solve
the problem drinking water how do we
solve the problem
right we solve it by resting maintaining
appropriate hydration and allow the
natural recycling mechanisms in the body
to maintain nutritional status and
monitoring people so that we don't get
into a depleted State that's why we're
monitoring electrolytes that's why we do
twice daily examinations on patients so
it is a safe and natural adaptation if
we remember fasting is a biological
adaptation you notice everybody every
human can fast we have to be able to
fast every human that couldn't fast died
because every time spring came late
there was no way to sustain this bulbous
neural net our massively oversized brain
two and a half times the vast of say a
chimp chimps don't fast you don't feed a
chip in a week or so they're dead they
that's why you'll never see chimps
wandering away from the tropics they
live where the constant year-round
supply of food because their brain
doesn't change to burning ketones your
brain is a bi-fuel brain it changes
completely the normal fuel is glucose
and that's your main burner of glucose
is your brain that's the biggest thing
and when the brain goes into fasting
state it changes to burning Ketone
bodies particularly beta hydroxybutyric
acid and it becomes preferentially
burning it just runs a tiny little bit
of glucose and that's the little bit of
gluconeogenesis that continues during
fasting unless you're active then of
course your muscles burn glucose and now
you really start breaking muscle down so
um the brain being a biofuel brain had
to be that way because otherwise humans
when spring came late because we burned
so much glucose in our brain we wouldn't
have been able to make it and this is
the mechanism by which fasting mimicking
diets and keto diets play because if you
go on a very high fat diet or a high fat
high protein diet which some people do
and you don't eat carbohydrates this
fasting mechanism kicks in so your brain
changes over to burning ketones you go
into ketosis and it has a hunger
blunting effect when you're in a ketotic
state you don't feel hunger and as a
consequence it helps people that are
trying to do short-term weight loss the
problem is what's good for short-term
weight loss isn't necessarily the same
thing that's best for long-term Health
stability so in our Clinic we're not a
weight loss clinic we're not looking to
maximize gross weight on the scale over
a short period of time we're interested
in fat loss and improving health so
we're looking at what does it take not
only to live a long life everybody wants
to live their full potential but more
importantly how do you avoid ability how
do you avoid spending the last 79.6
years in debility 16 years in poor
health that the average person is doing
how do you avoid finding yourself unable
to talk or move lying in some nursing
home bed waiting for people to change
your diaper for the last years or
Decades of your life how do you increase
healthy life expectancy not just life
expectancy the years you live fully
functional how do you ensure a good
death that means you live your life to
your full potential one day you go to
sleep you don't wake up because you
reached your genetic potential and not
become debilitated individual for years
and decades where we spend most of our
money ineffectively trying to manage
illnesses that were caused by poor diet
lifestyle choices that's what we're
using fasting do is try to help healthy
life expectancy and then a whole plant
food SOS free diet to sustain it yeah so
I think now Now's the Time to get into
that so the whole idea of no salt no
sugar no oil
this was the thing that really pulled me
in so we used to joke my last company
was a nutrition company and we used to
joke if it tastes good spit it out and
it was just like it's so many things
that taste good are just absolutely
terrible for you and but you know that's
because people are addicted to the
artificial stimulation of these
chemicals we've done a study a taste
adaptation study we've shown with
fasting your actual ability to detect
salt and sugar your hedonic response to
food actually changes and you can taste
vegetables that are naturally high in
sodium but most people don't you know
like they don't notice it after fasting
oh my gosh you think wow this is really
amazing and so good food starts to taste
good again and sometimes the stuff you
used to like is too spicy too salty
because your actual Paladin now it can
adapt back go back to eating that jerky
and stuff eventually you'll get back to
you know craving the salt but the point
is it's not as hard as people think it's
going to be long term because you get to
the point you actually would prefer you
know know the the beans and Grains and
nuts and seeds and these kind of things
it's not just discipline you know that
drives it except initially and that's
where fasting can be helpful it makes
that transition quicker you asked about
how long do people have to fast well
sometimes it only takes a few days of
fasting to induce these real inhealthy
people to induce these changes that's
why people that maybe do a yearly fast
of three to five days or seven days
finding can be very helpful not just the
detoxifying for the three days five days
but the effect that it has and how they
feel they can overcome their
hypertension their diabetes their
autoimmune diseases you know glucose and
Insulin everybody's interested in
glucose and it's particularly insulin
it's profoundly affected by fasting
fasting is one of the few things you can
do to actually reverse insulin
resistance you know what another thing
that helps with insulin resistance is
exercise
that's why diabetics you got to get them
eating right now is the smile because
you're seeing another place where those
two things line up
it constantly repeats itself in fact
that one of the things we did to save
time was identify the markers that
improve with exercise and then test them
in fasting this is like it just saves a
whole bunch of time because you know
like for example igf-1 insulin growth
factor one the lower the igf one the
longer the animals live periodic fasting
in rats for example you can double their
lifespan just by doing periodic fasting
like in what duration
like just 16. well and remember rats are
completely different than people so with
rats you can only fast about four days
as their potential not like humans which
goes 70 days or more uh rats are very
short so it's proportionally different
time you don't compare days to days but
the process of doing say for example
every other day eating at living room
will add you know significantly to the
lifespan of the Rat why well they
measured biomarkers and they found out
that insulin growth factor goes down and
that's associated with both fasting and
exercise another one
um leptin which is the the lower the
leptin levels is associated with reduced
inflammation and now the general
theories are that inflammation largely
responsible for all kinds of things not
just the joint pain but also your heart
disease and cancer possibly and kidney
issues and so lower left and levels seem
to be good leptin levels go down uh with
fasting blood pressure or heart rate I
already told you largest effect size
ever shown treating hypertension in with
with testing we have very dramatic and
consistent results with that we're doing
a study right now with the Mayo Clinic
looking at it's a phase one clinical
trial of the treatment of high blood
pressure using fasting instead of
medication the microbial load you have
what five pounds of bacteria living in
your intestinal tract a thousand strains
of different bacteria living creatures
eating and pooing inside you right now
and what those bacteria pull in you
depends on what you feed them and so if
you feed
um your bacteria soluble fibers which is
their from our Viewpoint natural food
you get vitamin K and fertilizer but if
you feed them animal-based Foods you get
completely different byproducts that are
associated with increased inflammation
so that's why we want to be careful
about how much quantity particularly
animal protein
um the inflammation markers like if you
look at il-6 and 10 Alpha and all these
different markers they've identified
that associate with inflammation they go
down with exercise and fasting people
that exercise regularly people that fast
periodically have lower levels of these
inflammatory markers but fasting doesn't
just reduce things it also increases
things so there's all kinds of markers
now that have been identified going up
with fasting things that improve and
reduce inflammation ghrelin and
adiponectin
what is that yeah uh it's it's one of
these markers that's associated with
insulin sensitivity and inflammation
ampk down regulates something else
called pgc1 Alpha which is associated
with increasing mitochondrial biogenesis
so the actual energy producing guys that
are live in your cells go up with
fasting now if we were going to build
out the ultimate fasting protocol and in
fact what do you do annually I know
you're doing doing the the narrowed
eating window so maybe a 16-8 or
something like that but when do you do a
multi-day fast
yeah so I I
hate fasting
yeah it's it's awful because you can't
exercise you can't you know play
basketball you can't you have to rest
it's really awful but it's also very
helpful so I do it every year I fast for
a week our basic protocol is in healthy
people you know that are on healthy
diets uh generally have almost no
downward symptoms during fasting they
don't have hunger they don't have
terrible healing crisis they don't get a
lot of it's pretty boring frankly so we
meditate and we relax and we rest and
try to do all the right things and I do
it for a week and if at the end of a
week perfectly stable no symptoms that's
it back to refeeding carefully takes
half the length of faster we feed back
to the whole plant food SOS free diet
and we do that every year and I I just
did mine in in November very uneventful
very helpful on many levels but not
exciting patience much more entertaining
because they're coming off animal
products they're coming off coffee
they're coming off alcohol they're
coming off medications they'll have
active healing crisis inflammation uh
mucous discharge they'll have skin
elimination you'll see the lumps and
bumps falling off you'll see low back
discomfort you'll see headaches you'll
see sleep disruption it can be very what
I call entertaining and that you just
keep going until that resolves are they
getting those symptoms though because of
the release of toxins like why on Earth
would your lower back hurt
oh because the kidneys are processing
most of these metabolic products and you
get what's called visceral somatic
referral pain for three to five days and
then it goes away
the other thing that happens is things
mobilizing inverse proportion so in
other words you can lose 50 percent of
your visceral fat but you only lose 20
of your adipose tissue and only four
percent of lean tissue and then the lean
tissue comes back with refeeding but the
fat doesn't the fat continues to drop if
you're doing the SOS diet right so if
you go back to your normal eating yeah
you can't go back to greasy fatty slimy
processed crap and I want to talk more
about that SOS program part of the
program is to educate people about how
to eat we do cooking demos we do
lectures we have a whole Roku Channel
we've got you know we do all kinds of
stuff to what I call brainwash people so
that they're prepared to go home and
efficiently apply a whole Natural Foods
diet get lots of we particularly like
vegetable materials so both raw and
cooked vegetable materials and these
starchy like cupboard squash and
butternut squash and kabucha we're not
talking about uh you know tater tots and
flower products and sugary things and
all kinds of artificial processed crap
which I bet Whole Foods okay so you're
fruits vegetables non-glutinous grains
we don't use glutinous grains at all
we're using more like when we talk about
grains we're talking about quinoa and
Millet and rice and you know like you
could let's dip into a few things
specifically that as somebody who's
um dabbled in sort of a plant first
approach but never gone vegetarian or
vegan
um one I've always told people that
fruit is nature's candy bar
um what what is it about like can I take
an unlimited amount of fruit because
like if you told me I could eat
watermelon apples bananas oranges all
day I'm in homie like I don't need
anything that's not gonna work so the
problem is today's hybridized fruits are
very high in sugar and very low in fiber
so they're not like the wild apples in
Hawaii where they're looking more like
vegetables I mean these are and they're
perfectly good foods if they're used
appropriately so we use whole fruit not
fruit juices not dried fruits not
processed you know artificial sugars
we're talking about your berries your
melon ones and we usually have one meal
that might have some fruit and two meals
that are really more vegetable dominated
so they might let's say for example
somebody has oatmeal in the morning with
some blueberries and maybe some flax
seeds ground or some walnuts they have a
huge salad with big steamed vegetables
at lunch and dinner with enough complex
carbohydrates so they don't get too
skinny and so the idea is we're looking
about 10 percent of calories from
protein about 15 to 18 percent of
calories from fat with the balance
coming from Whole plant food
carbohydrate now there's a problem in
order to get enough calories on this
kind of a diet you have to eat a lot of
volume you're talking about several
pounds of food a day because you know
potatoes rice and beans all have 500
calories a pound not you know 2 000
calories a pound from say nuts or seeds
or even higher from animal products so
you have to eat or four thousand
calories per pound from oil so you we're
not pouring olive oil over everything
we're just eating Whole Foods there's no
salt oil or sugar it's just the salt oil
and sugar naturally containing in these
Whole Foods diet Salt bad
well salt has a couple problems Salt's
not bad so sodium chloride is an
unnecessary nutrient without which you
die you have to have enough sodium in
your diet it happens to be that you get
all the sodium you need from a large
volumes of these whole Natural Foods
Just Like You Get Enough carbohydrate
you don't have to add sugar and then you
get enough essential fatty acids
including D cosmiconic acid Etc that you
form from your DHA or you form from your
omega-3 by eating whole plant foods but
the problem with added salt is that it
stimulates what's called passive
overeating so if you just give an animal
its fill to it feels satiated to say
rice whatever it'll eat a certain amount
and then it feels satiated you salt it
they'll eat significantly more people
say yeah it tastes better you're eating
more because you like it better but
you're eating more because the salt the
chemicals salt the sodium chloride in
higher concentration stimulates dopamine
in the brain results in increased intake
it affects satiety and so the problem
for people trying to lose weight if
they're eating salted Foods usually too
The Salted foods are are things like
flower products that are turned into
breads or crackers or cookies that are
also hyper concentrated in calories but
the salt will allow them to eat more
think about bread if you take the salt
out of bread it's and and you take out
the the sugar it's called matzah well
you know it's you know they have to eat
it once a year and on Passover and
that's it because that's the only time
you'll talk nobody's running out buying
big boxes of matzo as a routine because
it's flour and water it doesn't taste
good because any highly fractionated
food needs salt oil and sugar or
combinations in order to increase flavor
that's what chefs are is people that
take hyper concentrated foods and add
salt oil and sugar to it and deliver it
to the palate so it stimulates the brain
in the most intense way possible we're
saying get away from all that let's um
your addict analogy I think is very apt
and I want people to burn that into
their soul that there are some people
that can get away with having some of
this stuff and it doesn't become a huge
problem though they would almost
certainly be better off from a longevity
perspective from a feel-good perspective
if they went to a totally plant-based
SOS diet it but so for someone like me I
don't struggle with my weight I don't
have an addictive personality I can fast
if I want just because I think it's
better for me
um but I when I think about going to a
full plant-based diet sort of forgetting
about a pure SOS diet for a second but
one of the things that I already eat
that I know that I would eat is an
avocado like literally the avocado mash
it
um nothing else added to it I take a raw
baby carrot and then I put salt on the
avocado it is delicious is it
still bad for me though if I am I'm not
overweight I don't have a problem
overeating it
um it at that point does salt still have
such a problem that I should be cutting
it out of my diet or am I only cutting
it out to stop me from passive
overeating
well I think it's not just passive
overeating because salt also is a very
powerful preservative which is why it's
used you know throughout history to
before we had refrigeration and stuff
that help food not go bad so people to
get sick from eating spoiled meats and
other foods and so it is an effective
preservative but when you think about
the five pounds of bacteria that live in
your gut it may not be too good an idea
to put too much of a preservative into
that gut because it will alter the
microflora part of the reason people on
meat-based diets have completely
different microflora than plant-based
diets May impart be because of the
higher salt intake that's oftentimes
associated with it now let's be clear
you know vegan diets can be total crap
Sodapop potato chips and other generic
terms for highly processed fractionated
foods can all be vegan you know Oreo
cookies are vegan that doesn't make them
healthy it just makes them not have
animal food in it so I'm not arguing uh
that that vegan foods can't be crappy
Foods they certainly can I get in
trouble speaking at National vegan
conferences explaining to people that is
as challenging as meat products can be
the vegan processed food products may be
worse and that they'd be better off
eating the meat and that just gets them
all upset because they're being driven
from you know moral ethical and
spiritual viewpoints and saving the
planet and all that stuff I'm not
arguing that I'm just arguing I just
want patients to live a long and healthy
life and not be debilitated and we know
that too much animal protein
is definitely a detriment so people that
are eating large amounts of animal
protein have higher problems with kidney
disease and cardiovascular disease
there's definitely
at some point there's too much that
needs to be reduced even for people that
are going to Advocate animal Foods as a
whole natural food now you might ask me
can people eat meat and still maintain
Optimum weight absolutely because meat
isn't a highly fractionated pleasure
trap food it's a whole natural the
problem with meat is it's very
concentrated if you eat too much but you
can have problems but it's not the same
thing for example as dairy products
which are a highly processed animal food
that has all the challenges of animal
foods but now it has the problems of the
salt like try eating your cheese without
salt see what it tastes like it's the
salt that people really like about it
absolutely so that's why this gets very
clouded and confusing
is that because it's not just meat or
it's not just uh plants it's it's really
a question of how processed foods are
and how do we get away from having so
much processed foods and frankly meat
itself without salt you know just boils
some meat and chew on it a bit and see
if that's how appealing it is too you
know what I'm saying it's like yeah now
I think people get sugar and I think a
lot of people so associate salt with
heart disease or high blood pressure
that they're they can buy those two the
one that trips me out and then I'm super
interested to get your take on is not
bad oils things that everybody considers
bad like um you know vegetable oil you
know French fries fried oil like that
kind of thing but like
on a salad like that's the one I want to
talk about so olive oil is way less bad
than the other was it's omega-9 fatty
acid has a different ratio of fatty
acids it can be less processed you know
theoretical you can squish those olives
and extract the oil what does that my
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uh the thing is it's still nine calories
a gram of Highly processed fat that
begins to peroxidize as you break it
down so there's still challenges even
with olive oil now would you would I
agree that olive oil is less bad than
the others oh no question and
particularly if it's not heated at high
temperature which is the other problem
with fats when you you do fried foods
and I mean that's a whole nother Cascade
of problems I don't think most people
are arguing that that's good though most
people know that's not but they're going
to want to try to preserve well like
McDougall says John McDougall says that
people love good news about their bad
habits and so the arguments are that
this is so much less bad that now it
makes it good well that's not really
true less bad just means less bad it
doesn't make it good you don't need to
fractionate or process your oils down
you can get all the essential fats you
need by using your avocado
or and minimally processing it okay you
mush it or you you chew it up but you
don't have to extract the oil out of the
cells and increase its concentration
remove the fiber remove a lot of the
other benefits
um the problem with um too much fat in
the diet though is that fat is very
efficient uh and so as a consequence
it's really easy particularly if you're
eating refined oils to overeat you know
that one tablespoon of olive oil has
more calories than the salad
so we we aren't really I just drink a
little put a little drip but it's so
rich we just aren't getting the
proportion here that pound of salad has
100 100 calories whereas you know you've
got a hundred you know uh more than 100
calories in that in that dressing
serving so
it's it's more than you think and if you
really literally just put a few drops on
which you find is you can't taste it
there's no reason for it to even be
there so if I would say have your your
avocado and your carrots just leave
leave the salt alone you don't need the
extra uh added salt that and you know
then you'll be back to a whole natural
food diet that's SOS free talk to me
about variety because honestly I could
eat avocados carrots
kale
um a really small handful of things a
banana maybe an apple you know a couple
times a week whatever I get that we
can't overdo the you know now sort of
bastardized fruit
um but how much variety do I need to not
be malnutritioned on a vegetarian diet
what's surprisingly small amount and
particularly if it rotates with the
season for example if you ate just 2 000
calories we'll just assume for a second
that you were the average you need more
than that but if you are the average guy
weren't working out didn't use your
brain that much and you only needed 2
000 calories a day just which is the RDA
average
um my guess is you probably burn 3 000
calories a day or more but if 2 000
calories a day if you ate
um 2 000 calories of just say brown rice
and broccoli that was it your entire
diet
you would get all the vitamins minerals
uh protein essential amino acids you get
about 80 grams of protein out of that
and uh you know three cups of rice uh
four cups of broccoli it would be a
boring diet but you would get everything
except B12 that you need you know and
that is one thing on these plant-based
diets if you really aren't getting the
fecal contamination associated with
animal Foods you do need to get a source
of B12 it only comes from bacteria and
we use recommend a thousand micrograms
of methylcobalamin a day and that'll
meet virtually everybody's needs so that
is an issue you have to get out in the
sun to get enough vitamin D because
you're not drinking your vitamin D
fortified milk because you have to
actually make it in the sun or
supplement it if necessary so
um fortunately you can avoid most of the
other pills and potions and powders
because these large volumes of
plant-based foods have high degree of
nutrition and particularly when you
emphasize the green vegetable materials
the raw and cook greens and your
broccoli and chard and kale these are
really nutrient-rich Foods very low in
caloric density but you do have to eat a
lot and so that's that's one of the
downsides a lot more eating and chewing
the good news is though you have normal
micro floor to feed your gut so you're
not getting TMA which becomes tmao which
is so dominant in the meat uh gut Flora
um you're getting uh all of the
micronutrients that you need you get the
fiber you have satiety you're getting
enough hydration because you get a lot
of water content from these water
content rich foods in addition to
whatever water you're drinking but you
do you do and you don't have the chronic
constipation which means you don't get
the fissures and the uh hemorrhoids and
you're not having the varicose veins and
the prolapsed uteruses and the ptosis
and the Diverticulitis and all the other
conditions that come from a very low
fiber diet and this is one of the
challenges for people even though
they're trying to eat healthy but using
an animal Rich diet unless they get
enough fiber in they're not feeding the
micro floor in their gut that's why
colitis patients has so much trouble
literally that microflor ends up having
to eat the the coating of the intestinal
tract you know because it's it's going
to survive just like you want to survive
you feed it soluble fibers you get a
different balance so even if you're
going to do a meat in the diet you
better get enough vegetables in addition
so that you know you you get the fiber
and the nutrients and the materials that
you need I've never noticed the mental
Clarity thing that people talk a lot
about so I think I would have if I were
going from poor diet to fasting then I
think because you're getting rid of the
brain fog that you can get from
especially a high high carb diet
especially if you're getting a lot of
sugar but
you said that you like to do interviews
and things in a fasted State because
you're you think you're clear sharper
faster I do yeah you know I this is you
bring up a great point it's this
biochemical individuality and I think we
hear you know ketones are great so I
need to be in ketosis to feel great but
everyone operates at a different level I
just find for me personally
everything is easier if you took
exogenous ketones would you get the same
mental Clarity is it the lack of
something or the presence of ketones
such an awesome question I think it's
the presence of the ketones personally
have you tried exogenous I have yeah
I've noticed that I mean the Jack your
ketone's right up which I would love to
get back to because a lot of people are
chasing ketones for fat loss which I
don't think is ideal but for the mental
benefits I think the presence of ketones
has a lot of potential how often do you
take them I only take them when I travel
like and sometimes before bed when you
take them when you travel for what
reason
because I believe that traveling is
stressful in the body in a way that the
ionizing radiation whatever your this
sounds totally woo-woo I know but the
Wi-Fi in the airplanes uh the recycle
there I usually just feel tired more
tired than I normally would considering
it's just like an hour flight or two
hour or whatever so I like to take them
before because part of the reason why
ketones are so exciting to me is how
they affect our Gene signaling and
protect our DNA and affect it you know
we talked I've never heard it protects
DNA yeah through the through the sirtuin
enzymes and it's a big long fancy word
the histone D acetylase Inhibitors the
hdax these are common targets for
various chemotherapy drugs they're hot
they're upregulated when we fast when we
exercise and when we're in ketosis and
maybe perhaps when we take drugs like
metformin or rapamyosin so these are
molecular switches that not only affect
our body's preference for which fuel we
utilize glucose ketones fats Etc but
they affect they're like affect stress
response Pathways and including
autophagy and and others
so yeah if you're traveling if you're
sitting if you're going to be in a
stressful environment if your occupation
this is a big one for a lot of people
working at a hair salon or if they're
cleaning homes for example cleaning
apartment complexes whatever exposed to
chemicals I think ketones offer a lot of
benefit in that regard because you're
helping the stress response Pathways
that's so interesting I've never heard
about this before so
um you're saying if I'm in a diet
induced or fast induced
um ketogenic state am I up I'm up
regulating the things that
de-excite that stress pathway or is it
that being in the ketogenic state is
sort of a rest and digest
parasympathetic place
yeah that's a deep that's a deep
question we could get into it so a lot
of because it's counterintuitive because
right now if you look at my stress
response hormones I'm 24 25 hours into a
fast my adrenaline my noradrenaline my
cortisol are significantly probably
higher compared to if I just was eating
a normal day right so logic would
suggest that fasting is stressful but
what we see that's the hormonal side of
the stress response and then we have the
autonomic kind of central nervous system
side of the stress response what we see
is parasympathetic tone and heart rate
variability which is HRV a lot of people
you measure it with your ring that you
use to order ring this is a proxy over
autonomics nervous system and that
increases in favoring more of resilience
so my heart rate variability is going to
go up in a fast correct interesting I've
never tested that yeah it's a wonderful
I mean I think that's the best biomarker
people should use and look if you're
brand new to this and you fast it might
decrease try transiently but over time
it's going to improve so like if I don't
need anything tonight when I wake up my
heart rate variability over the evening
time and first morning will be
significantly higher compared to if I
had were to have had two meals per day
right and so I think that's a good
biomarker and then you know because
there's so many people that say well
it's just about energy balance calories
and calories out and there's really
intelligent people that speak to that
and I could agree that you can get
results doing that bodybuilders do that
Define results
short-term body composition changes
maybe at the expense of slowing down
your resting metabolic rate because if
we think about what our resting
metabolic rate metabolism is adrenaline
or adrenaline thyroid hormone and
dieting prolonged calorie restriction
tanks that and so I think if people
again I'm not a fan of calorie counting
by the way but I just throw it out there
because you know there's some reasonably
smart people that think that ketosis is
stupid it's all about energy balance why
do they think ketosis is stupid because
some of the controlled feeding studies
in metabolic Wards show that there's
really no difference in terms of fat
loss between
energy equated differences in
macronutrients so if you have someone
that's eating three let's just make it
simple a thousand calories a day they're
a small person and all of that is maybe
it's on a high carb diet 1000 calories a
day from a high fat low carb diet
ketogenic diet in two weeks in a
metabolic word study maybe there's not
much difference in fat loss so they say
see guys this it doesn't matter it's
just energy and energy out and yeah I'm
not really totally concerned about fat
loss is the best proxy of Health number
one number two these are short duration
studies in a controlled environment
people are not living their normal life
well let's this this is really
interesting to me and I'm in that
wonderfully dangerous place if I know
enough to get myself into trouble
um so let's be nice and inflammatory uh
if if they're just equal why is ketones
stupid or why is ketogenic stupid
because I don't get a downside me
neither because individuals will say
you're eliminating a major food group
carbohydrates fiber and they'll say it's
restrictive
think it comes down to trade-off and
what are your goals if I'm trying to
optimize testosterone if I'm trying to
put on as much muscle as possible bench
press deadlift squat power lift as much
as possible I'm not going to give a crap
about the ketogenic diet right because
those are short-term goals presumably
but wouldn't you still be really
cognizant of what
form the calories come in because I get
the the one thing about the um a calorie
is a calorie that makes me super tense
is your cells are made of the food that
you take in and so let's just take trans
fats as an example where the physical
structure of the fat molecule is I'll
call it damaged it's rigid
so if you're taking rigid fat into your
cell membranes and your cells
theoretically become more brittle is
that a fair assessment I agree so that's
where like that all seems to break down
like I definitively do not have all the
answers in no uncertain terms I'm
ignorant to far more than I'm not
ignorant to I just don't quite
understand the veracity with which
people say you can completely disregard
the constituent parts of the food I'm
not like forget ketogenics whatever sure
I'm not going to bat for keto or against
it I'm just saying it would seem to me
that there's more than just the
collimatory reading of a food item that
we need to take into consideration in
100 agreement with you and not only you
know are our cells liver cells brain
cells Etc made up of the molecules that
you mentioned the macromolecules
micromolecules Etc but different food
and different macromolecules and
different nutrients in food affect
signaling Pathways gene expression
microbiome composition so there's a it's
not just food can't be relegated to you
know carbide carbs fats proteins DNA
protein water we need to look at these
other things so I but they don't talk
about that and so I've tried to have an
open mind and try to get the perspective
of the calorie counting people because
these are seemingly logic logic logical
people phds or MDS so I'm like what is
it that I'm missing and most of the
pundits and people promoting this idea
will refer to a Dr Hobbs I believe is
his name at University of Kansas Kansas
State something in there where he did a
study on himself an end of one
experiment in 2011 I believe it's the
twinkie diet the twinkie guy yeah and it
made a lot of yeah everybody's he died
okay so one dude when I say I love your
approach yeah you you absolutely have to
be open-minded and the last thing I want
to do is be dogmatic because you just
like I'm not interested in being right
I'm interested in having the right
answer
um this one though this one feels like a
religious argument where it it would
seem that the people that say this are
interested in being right
clearly there's just so much at play
um it just seems weird to get like so
super caught up in that you can get lean
on a Twinkie for sure I think you're
gonna have a whole host of other
problems it would seem absolutely and
that's why that study hasn't been
replicated and it speaks to what you
were just alluding to I mean yeah you
can get lean to in various things but is
being lean the absence of fat the pr the
presence of health does that equate
Health we know many bodybuilders who are
very lean six percent body fat after a
competition they have a congestive heart
failure heart attack or die so it's not
that you know body fat OBS can have
problems and challenges and is linked
with inflammation and where your body
fat sits is a big deal but that's where
I think it gives people power because
it's not just about your diet it's about
your sleep your relationships your
Stress Management you know your mindset
exercise your kid in rhythms there's all
these things and if you you know just
relegate food to just calories you miss
all that but it brings back to what you
were saying it's not about being right
you know and I think people and I've
learned this myself I've had to have an
open mind like because I read negative
ketogenic diet studies because I want to
challenge my own beliefs so I don't I'm
not in this Echo chamber I talk about
those negative ketogenic diet studies
and when I'm reading it I'm trying to
have remove my bias it's very hard as
human beings our mind is wired to be
very biased we're constantly when we
watch videos like this or read books
we're trying to confirm what we already
believe you know what I mean and so we
need to kind of remove ourselves from
that a little bit and and realize that's
how we're wired and we're set up that
way but it doesn't mean we have to be
that way yeah it's really interesting so
aha there's no question that we all have
that bias and I will definitely lump
myself in there but if your obsession is
like for instance if your obsession is
longevity or feeling good or whatever
it's like you can pretty easily get out
of your own way on that and then just
steer by what makes something feel good
or not feel good one of the things that
at least on a ketogenic diet that I find
so interesting is it changes your
relationship to hunger I can fast for I
intermittent fast every day my averages
call it 20 hours a day so every day I'm
you know I'm fasting roughly 20 hours a
day but when I look at like what the
primary driver for me in terms of
wanting to be open to something is to
have an even better effect so if
somebody said no no if you eat Twinkies
you're going to feel even better A rad
then I'll I will try it one that sounds
a lot more fun and then two you can see
like where you've Fallen something but
where do you live in terms of diet are
you always keto are you sometimes keto
you've talked about seasonal eating like
how sort of do you structure your
day-to-day living it's an awesome
question I think everyone needs to think
about what their unique goals are so for
me trying to optimize brain function
that's just my primary goal and then
when I exercise I want to optimize my
physical performance like if I'm going
to do a lot of volume I will have
carbohydrates so I guess you could call
it like a targeted cyclical ketogenic
style diet if I'm sitting here traveling
I've been sitting all day I'm going to
go on an airplane in an hour or two
after this you know I don't need carbs
for that I don't need sweet potatoes I
don't need butternut squash so it's
mostly a fasted low calorie type day so
yeah I mean my Approach is just you know
have the carbohydrate commensurate with
the activity so if you're not doing much
activity you probably don't need a lot
of carbs and so uh when I think about
like managing the microbiome and trying
to get as much diversity
I I will eat things that
um regard like let's say that I never
worked out I would still bring in things
like berries or maybe even the
occasional piece of fruit or something
just to to try to introduce as much
variety as I can I'm talking color so
that we're you know getting
micronutrient variety as well just
making sure that I have a robust
microbiome that has a lot of different
diversity
um do you think that's does
that make sense
um if somebody doesn't have an increased
need for carbohydrate is there still a
reason for diversity of microbiome to
eat rice or vegetables or fruits or
berries
it's a beautiful question five years ago
I would have said absolutely but that's
and that's why I was hesitant to even go
keto in the first place did a lot of
research into you know how different
foods and overall food diversity affects
diversity here in a microbiome and so we
know that I thought that was the most
important thing and some research out of
UCLA recently showed that actually
ketones May influence those different
strains acronymsium mucinophilia fecal
bacterium presidency eye these are
common strains that are kind of like
these keystone species that influence
the diversity and really when we talk
about when people are chasing and I
understand where you're coming from but
so everyone understands the context why
is microbiome diversity healthy it
translates into stability stability in
any ecosystem is resilient right it can
take little small hits
how do you over how do you circumvent
this practically I think it's unless you
have an autoimmune disease unless you
have severe gastrointestinal dysfunction
when you have a berry or Rosemary or
Ginger I think it's best to eat what's
in season in your environment do I have
a randomized in the environment I live
in or in the environment ancestrally
that I came from I think it's a
combination of the two I think if you
can keep in mind your genetics and
context but also your local environment
if we take your microbiome now and then
put you in Africa it's going to be
different absolutely because the water
the bugs you're exposed to the people
you're in contact with so I but your
genes are not going to change so I think
it's it's melding the two
I think you have to the only diet that
humans could eat before the Advent of
electricity gas refrigeration and so
forth was what was available to them
locally
and here we have and I'm not picking on
green juice or whatever but let's say in
January where there's no vegetables
growing in Wisconsin you're having a
celery juice because it's healthy
how healthy really is that because we
know that hibernating animals for
example their microbiome composition and
diversity changes with the season so is
it is it the food is it the seasons
there's long story short there's a lot
of crosstalk between our microbiome and
our own tissues and so their Community
communicating to us and we're
communicating to them and so I think
getting back to the Practical takeaway
from this whole conversation is we need
to understand the food that we eat is in
being absorbed by us but it's being
utilized and absorbed by those gut
bacteria as well
and we need to as many of your guests
have talked about keep that in mind
because I think that relationship is is
fairly important and studies show that
and we know that kids that get
antibiotics in the first year of Life
tend to be have more autoimmune and
allergies and even obesity later and
just not being birthed through our
mother's vagina as opposed to being
delivered C-section lack of
breastfeeding there's so many different
things but
you know is the dearth or the lack of
fiber going to negate the might health
of the microbiome again five years ago
when I said absolutely now I'm like all
these people are thriving on me only
diets you know if we think the
microbiome imbalances are triggering
autoimmunity yet these people are
reversing autoimmunity through a meat
only diet yeah let's talk about that so
carnivore diet
um pretty interesting are I hear a lot
about people doing beef only which is
interesting and so when my wife first
started having crazy microbiome issues
basically unintentionally she just was
going towards like what makes her feel
okay she gravitated towards a wildly
predominantly beef diet are there people
that have tried it that are saying uh I
can't do it with beef but I can do it
with chicken or organ meat or like is
there sort of variety in that or is beef
the one that people consider the safest
of the carnivore diets I think that's
where people are leaning at least the
conversations that I had and I'm not an
expert in this space I thought it was a
dumbest thing people could do ever
because I had my head so wrapped around
this whole microbiome story and I
thought how are you going to get the
fiber how are we gonna get the short
chain fatty acids all of this but then I
I listened to the comments on my YouTube
videos I read direct messages on my
Instagram and I'm just blown away
through these people are lying or
they're telling me the truth and I
really believe them have you tried it uh
personally yeah so I've been doing it
for the past three months and now right
now
no so that's the thing where it's a
little bit different so so we do we have
backyard chicken so we do eggs turkey
eggs chicken eggs turkey is that
considered carnivore yeah I think any
Animal product is considered Carnival
okay interesting what blood markers are
you watching
um sleep sleep scores heart rate
variability body temperature blood
glucose and ketones my hemoglobin A1c
increased by five tenths of a point so
it went from greased which is surprising
to me yeah 4.8 to 5.3 but everything
else I mean Iron ferritin increased
which I was probably expecting eating
more red meat things like that a word at
all about cholesterol
no because my triglycerides are
historically low
um that's the only one you worry about
well I worry about cholesterol when
triglycerides and glucose and liver
enzymes are out of whack
so your liver tends to take the brunt of
metabolic burden first it's a key
metabolic sittingly Hub and so if your
liver enzymes start to rise your glucose
is rising your hemoglobin A1c is rising
then in your triglycerides are increased
then I'm I'm more concerned about what's
going on with your LDL cholesterol and
you know and your low hgl but without
that context I'm not totally worried
about it and the thing that people don't
really realize is like your body can
convert protein via gluconeogenesis to
glucose there's certain cells and
tissues red blood cells the neuron
various central nervous system cells
within our brain that need absolutely
need glucose they can't use fats or
ketones protein can be back converted as
can liberating stored body fat the body
fat is you know you have your
triglycerides and on you know your
triglyceride on top of that is glycerol
and when you liberate that for free
fatty acids to make ketones that
glycerol gets converted to make glucose
so a lot of people think you need to
have carbs to raise glucose for obligate
glucose utilizing cells but that
glycerol backbone gets shunted right
into that cycle
yeah it's interesting Tom I I don't know
what the solution is for people should
they go carnivore should they not I
think if you have
digestive issues it's worth a shot and
it sounds so polarizing controversial
but you know in functional medicine
we've been talking about this for a
while we you know people like Jeff Bland
and Sid Baker Mark Hyman an Elimination
Diet which was essentially just
basically plain old white rice and lamb
that was it like that's almost carnivore
in the sense obviously you're if you
overdo the white rice you're going to
negate some of that but it was really
eliminating all the variables that could
affect the immune system
man I'm really interested in this one
that's the kind of thing I like to eat
um like if you told me that I could have
hamburger and eggs I'm done like I don't
need anything other than that and
because I don't struggle like I could
eat a very what most people call boring
diet just because it's the same thing
over and over and over I'd be very fine
with that like you said five years ago
you'd give a very different answer five
years ago I would have said yes in fact
for uh accidental period probably of
about six months I was like vegetables
are unimportant you don't need them and
I felt like money I was absolutely fine
I would it was it a true carnivore diet
it must have been pretty close
like it would have been
um beef eggs cheese probably some
lettuce and pickles that would sneak in
on Burgers occasion but obviously I
don't eat the bun I don't have ketchup
or anything like that so it would have
been real real close
yeah I mean so the question is you know
is are you going to make your microbiome
more resilient or not people should try
various diets and see what works for
them and I think a lot of people get
stuck in this regimented thing where and
it can backfire on them too they're
carnivore so then when berries come in
season when people might watch this
towards the end of summer blueberry is
gonna be in full swing does that mean
you totally avoid blueberries because
there's I believe I'm not one of these
people that think plants are bad I think
blueberries the anthocyanidins and the
various and you know antioxidants have a
lot of benefit to your microbiome into
your body in general
but then when you start to identify that
you're a carnivore or a keto or you're
vegan then you close yourself down a
little bit and so I think in your case
you don't have any major health issues
that I'm aware of you know that you've
talked about so I would just continue
what you're doing but maybe in the
winter probably the best time to go
carnivore I'm going to say you and
here's I don't have I have one health
issue and that is I'm dying so the only
real question I care about in every
healthier episode I do is how do I live
forever like if you're steering by how
you feel which is essentially what I do
I just don't know what its impact is on
Longevity if a carnivore diet like if
somebody could tell me no no a thousand
percent if you do a carnivore diet
you're going to live to 150. I'd be all
over the carnivore diet all day every
day I wouldn't even think about it I'd
never touch another blueberry in
my life like I would just eat it
um but it's it's that big
question mark about longevity that winds
me up well let me pose this question to
you how could a diet be negatively
affecting your Longevity if it makes you
feel better it makes you sleep better if
it improves your heart rate variability
if it makes you stronger if it makes you
recover better how could it slow down
your longevity I mean or affect
longevity in a negative way
I don't know maybe I'm not thinking
about this through properly but it
doesn't make sense to me
[Music]
that's interesting this is so
interesting man like yeah look I I love
the experimentation I love the open mind
really be looking for new things in fact
to that point what is something that
you're excited about now totally
improving I get it you're not the expert
you're not like putting your your chip
on the roulette wheel but like what's
something that's Cutting Edge right now
that's got you really excited
you know I think the the ability to
manipulate mtor has been very excited so
we kind of talked about mtor's kind of
the gas pedal on our cells to grow and
you know one of the reasons that you
fast one of the main benefits of fasting
prolongly is affecting glucose insulin
mitochondrial function that we
introduced the show on but it it drops
them towards to the floor and we know
that chronic mtor overexpression is
linked with premature aging diseases so
I think the ability through drugs
through exercise and through fasting
protocols to manipulate this critical
energy sensor called mtor is super
fascinating so I think you know right
now in 2019 a lot of people are micro
dosing psilocybin and LSD I personally
experiment with that fairly often I
think in two years people are going to
be micro dosing rapamycin people are
going to be microdosing versus mtor
Inhibitors to to like they're like
called calorie restriction mimetics so
we're kind of manipulating the
physiologic effects people already
with rapamycin it's a very few
you mentioned the other one I'm blanking
on right now like metformin metformin I
don't I take berberine interesting so
the one thing like when the camera
stopped rolling yeah the one thing a lot
of people are like yeah with it is
is that thousand percent I'm talking
about doctors yeah where I'm like all
right then like it's one of those it is
only my fear of the unknown where it's
like if something seems too good to be
true it probably is and I don't know
what kind because they've been giving it
to diabetics and cancer patients for a
long time long time so uh I don't know
what kind of Studies have come out based
on that but it metformin is probably one
of the safest drugs you could take
um it's actually very poorly absorbed
here's what's really cool so I've you
know studied the microbiome forever I'm
very curious about how these drugs work
like it's only 33 or something like that
is absorbed how is it working it's
affecting your microbiome it's affecting
the gut hormones and your bugs so very
safe the only thing you might need to
add more of would be B12 and folate
because it reportedly does affect
methylation and or absorption
but that's a very safe drug I I I'm not
I wouldn't be ashamed to take say that I
take it I don't I take berberine so I do
that 500 milligrams of berberine
hydrochloride same thing meant to slow
mtor yeah well it it affects am I don't
want to get complex into the
biochemistry but you have kind of a yin
yang you have M towards growth ampk is
breakdown okay you know one's either
good or bad they just are uh berberine
and Metformin increase ampk
amp gives a switch just like in terms of
switch they're different knobs so it's
breaking down what
crap inside ourselves okay so this is a
little bit like autophagy ampk and mtor
are the key cellular switches that
ultimately guide autophagy and govern
whether or not we're going to tear down
break down you know average proteins
dysfunctional proteins aggregated
proteins dysfunctional organelles we
kind of talked about how our cells are
like little homes inside our appliances
those appliances become dysfunctional
and that's where autophagy self-digest
comes in and so you have a bad furnace
autophagy and will help to clear that a
bad furnace in your cell would be a
mitochondria Golgi apparati endoplasmic
reticulum there's all these different
compartments it's even speculated that
the ability to break down fat and
glycogen store glucose is autophagy
mediated even recovering from exercise
this is what's so cool so when we feel
sore after workout how do you think our
body recovers from that it's via
autophagy and breaking down those
damaged proteins so that we can rebuild
them so that they're stronger for our
next workout
so I like to throw that in there because
when people hear autophagy they think
fasting but that's just one knob on this
autophagy wheel exercise there's a ton
of data showing that exercise enhances
autophagy because you're causing your
body to dig deep and break down glycogen
for that workout
wow that makes sense all right I'm going
to put you to the test for a second so
hiding behind the screen door number one
is somebody I'm not going to tell you
anything about them I'm not going to
tell you if they're a man or woman
overweight ripped whatever but you have
to tell them how to eat
for longevity
and feeling good
how should they eat
I would say
Sally or Joe look I don't know what your
health issues are I don't know what
you're experiencing
but we're going to get you off anything
that comes in a box bag or a can so no
processed food no processed food I want
you to go to a farmer that's within a 50
mile radius of you
ask them what you can buy that's in
season and and buy the animal products
that you feel comfortable consuming I
don't really care so much as what you
eat and how much I want you eating at
the same time every day whatever that is
so influencing the Circadian rhythm so
there's a lot of new research studies
where they're controlling how many
calories people are eating the same
amount of calories but if they force it
into a confined window it changes this
mtour expression and not just a defined
window but the same defined window every
day you hit on the head exactly so if
you're if you're going to intermittent
fast great then eat from say you know
noon to six or two to eight it doesn't
matter but just try to be consistent
just like we should try to go to bed at
the same time and wake up at the same
time you know we hear a lot about toxic
blue light
well when we eat and food in general
affects our circadian biology we have
molecular clocks in our gut and our
muscle and our brain and our pancreas
everywhere food in trains that clock too
that's really interesting I haven't
heard that before
um
is there
a number of hours before going to bed
that somebody should be cognizant of
having their last meal
so eating earlier is generally better so
you don't and it's tough to be social
too because here we are talking about
food but relationships are so key and
you know you know when you go out to
dinner sometimes you're out to 10 or 11
eating late I generally advise people to
kind of cut things off by 7 PM which can
be tough for whatever you know if the
person didn't have any concerns about a
social life what would be the ideal
window
I mean me personally I would say 10 to 4
10 a.m to four
and it's controversial to talk about
this because a lot of people are
skipping breakfast and lunch and just
having dinner if that's working for you
keep doing it I don't ever want someone
to change what's working for them just
upon research that I tell them but
there's some research from University of
I believe it's Arkansas one in Alabama
as well that they're looking at ETF
which is early time restricted feeding
so if you look at this umbrella of
intermittent fasting within that or
different protocols alternate day
fasting the 5 2 16 8 where you're
fasting like you fast for 24. basically
yeah 20 hours a day within that is this
time restricted feeding bubble and they
are having subjects eat earlier in the
day so they started eating at eight and
cutting off at two and that was it and
what they showed is there was a dramatic
increase in autophagy just by doing that
changes in hormones changes in glucose
insulin but we always think well if
autophagy's good and more is better but
if we think it overweight people their
fat cells have higher levels of
autophagy occurring it's a compensatory
mechanism because if you were to it
sounds weird but if you were to biopsy
someone who's morbidly obese and you
look at their fat tissue there's a lot
of necrosis and like literally tissues
are dying there's a lot of immune cells
so if you didn't know anything about
autophagy and you looked at adipocytes
in obesity you would think autophagy's
bad because it's up regulated right and
so I just want people to understand and
certain cancers utilize autophagy
upregulation to avert the immune system
to help it
so it's interesting so it's not this
clear some it's good or bad it's
contextualized and tissue specific and
sometimes more is not better
so that a lot of people are doing hey I
did a 24-hour fast let's just roll it
out to 96 hours 72 hours what are your
goals why are you doing this sometimes
more is not better I want to live
forever that's the real truth
um it's probably a long shot but
anything that I can do to feel better
perform better look better I'm certainly
going to be down with so what is
what are the lifestyle changes that
somebody should make if they really want
to look good feel good for a very very
long time yeah we see we're seeing now
longevity is really spiking so what you
feel is what so many people are feeling
because we've been through so many
one-hit things first it was you know fat
oh well you know what
we don't want eating fat we're going to
have you on all these other kind of fats
we're going to have you on vegetable and
canola and sunflower and safflower and
we find out that these are so
inflammatory but that by the time you
put them in your cart they're already
rancid that's interesting I never hear
people talk about that so explain what
is so problematic about those on the
Shelf it's very simple it's very simple
the containers in which they're held
they are clear a lot of them and light
gets through
oxidizes the oil and it becomes
literally rancid and rancid oils mean
inflammation so when we're talking about
aging anti-aging all of that that's one
of the Premier easy things the basic
premise
of the choices that we can make is the
oils that we use we're going to go on to
Coconut oils different kind of oils
healthier oils Time Magazine had on
their cover eat your butter so we keep
going through those Corrections and we
did the same thing with sugars oh
sweeteners we can't we can't do regular
sugar it's not good for us so let's do
the pink yellow and blue packets then
it's stop let's not do that let's go on
to these type of sugars let's go on to
more monk fruit Stevia things like that
another big course correction same thing
meat and potatoes let's go from meat and
potatoes let's go from that to all meat
well that's not working let's go to all
juice well that's not working let's go
to more paleo well that's not perfect
let's go to paleo-ish okay well let's go
to keto that's almost right now what
about keto 2.0 or kind of Keto and what
is kinda keto what kind of Keto is
taking the basic principles of Keto and
basically with keto the problem is that
people aren't getting enough fiber
because of the carbohydrate allowance
which is about you know five percent of
the the diet is is carbohydrates that's
not enough for people to be able to
explore carbohydrates in the way that
they should so they become constipated
and irritable they're the two things
that we see with people who stay on keto
for a long period of time
so I sit on keto for nine months
um it was awesome I felt wonderful my
relationship with food completely
changed but I didn't at all
um I didn't have constipation or
anything I didn't have any trouble my
bowel movements were money but I did
notice my muscle mass was going down I
just felt softer I was trying to keep my
carbs essentially at zero yeah
um and I go back and forth I'm saying
all of this because I go back and forth
on
fiber and it's important so right now I
get fiber because I do
I have some vegetable matter I have some
nuts but I probably get
70 of my calories from red meat just to
really trigger people
um doesn't trigger me because for some
people it works I started telling you
about these mid course Corrections
because I start I've seen everything in
nutrition and I can sit here and tell
you honestly for the first time I'm
seeing some really positive things in
nutrition we're starting to get it right
when you understand ancestral medicine
and ancestral nutritions right we really
do work better with some foods and then
there's also environment that you have
to consider and that's the environment
that you put yourself in and you stay in
because that has different effects on
the body and how you digest how you
metabolize all of that but there are
foods that tend to work best with our
body and that's when I went into a whole
dive and started really exploring these
Foods I thought why doesn't anyone know
this you know that's why I wrote nine
books why doesn't anyone know this why
doesn't anyone know that these Foods
really do juice us up so what I loved
about paleo is it broke down each food
category and it said Hey listen if you
want proteins these are the best
proteins red meats work really well for
some people they really do it depends on
the amount of inflammation that you have
in your body it has to do with
prostaglandins it has to do with so many
inflammatory markers in your body but
some people are able to eat more red
meat than others and also with with
paleo it breaks down vegetables so you
know energy vegetables versus fibrous
type of vegetables how much you should
have of that fats here here are the good
fats so that's what I really gravitated
towards that because it basically just
broke down the macros and said these are
really good proteins these are really
good fibrous vegetables these are really
good energy vegetables and your energy
vegetables should really match what your
needs are so it's not a matter of you
know carbohydrates are terrible for you
they're inherently bad they're not
inherently bad you just have to match
your energy you have to match the amount
of energy that your body needs to really
fuel itself and to really drive and
that's the key and so you know keto the
same thing with fats we most people when
they started keto they were 50 to 75
percent fat that works great for some
people it doesn't for others it provides
a level of discomfort what I care about
and what matters to me and what matters
for longevity is that we're getting
these foods that our body recognizes
we're getting these foods that our body
understands we're getting these foods
that our body drives off of now the the
template in which it falls I believe
it's very similar for us but how much
that you should have and the balance
that's right for you it now that's where
it gets a little bit different and
that's where personal play has to come
in and that's where a lot of these diets
provide awesome guidelines awesome
guidelines but you have to know how to
read your body okay so before we go into
the individual stuff you gave a great
high level over view now let's dive in
so getting back to the initial question
of what is the the ideal for somebody
that wants to extend their high level
performance
what is the sort of perfect diet I get
that that the truth is you have to try
it for yourself and that there's massive
amounts of variability but it'd be great
to just pick that sort of middle person
right in the bell curve smack in the
middle
um what is their what are actual things
that they should be getting at the
grocery store yeah so the highest
quality that you can afford that's
normal food what do you mean by high
quality high quality so if you can get
organic get organic you can get pasture
raised you know get past your race you
can get grass-fed Meats awesome I firmly
believe that most of us operate really
well off of meat Okay so
I also find that a lot of people in
terms of protein operate really well
when they put a lot of fish in there
instead of red meat so if you're
thinking how do I build this plate
kellyanne just tell me how I build this
damn plate
you want to have protein like you said
go to the grocery store buy some really
good proteins that work for your body
get them get them as as healthy as you
can as you can because quality actually
does matter try to balance that plate
out make sure you have some fibrous
vegetables what are those it's the green
stuff I don't care if you juice it I
don't care if you chop it I don't care
what you do you know so we talk about
quality of food and you know what can
they do should they only eat organic if
you saw what I saw and you saw what
really what people were really eating
I'm not worrying about a chicken carcass
that's not perfect all the time
if you can get people to eat in Balance
get as best quality as you can get in
balance and it makes such a such a big
difference all right so I want to really
pinpoint this notion of balance So when
you say balance you're talking protein
fat carbohydrate like yeah so so yeah
because a lot of it's very off kilter
some people work operate fantastic on 50
fat and then other people can operate on
25 it depends this is why with keto I'm
just saying when people were on have
been on keto after a while we start
hearing well it's not perfect for a lot
of people a lot of women look and I know
people are going to write and say are
you kidding me I got these results I got
these results for some people when
you're at a starting point where you
need to lose a lot of weight it gets the
weight off
it makes the skin look a lot of better A
lot better but it's a matter of finding
that balance
somewhere between paleo somewhere
between keto so you have so we go into a
more weight maintenance and not diets
but more weight maintenance
and more into longevity and more into
sustainable diets what's sustainable for
you is different for other people that's
the whole key and that's what people
want right now this is what I'm hearing
over and over again they want to they
want to look at things and approach
things very different people are looking
at things for the first time I think
more spiritually more spiritually in
their food and that's why we're talking
so much about plant-based everything now
it has to do with spirituality people
are feeling good on plant-based foods
and that's why the keto-ish or the keto
2.0 they're adding more plants they're
adding more opportunity for people to
eat more vegetables and things is keto
becoming a buzzword though so I was fat
phobic for a very long time and I had
massive inflammation as a result I
wasn't eating carbs but I was eating
protein probably 85 of my calories I got
from protein I was trying to keep carbs
as close to zero as possible trying to
keep fat as close to zero as possible I
basically lived in rabbit starvation
absolute atrocious for the joints it got
me lean as hell I looked awesome
but I did not feel great so I finally
um I encountered Dom degasino Peter
ratia they're like look you need to be
consuming fat they started talking about
ketogenics and when they were talking
about it it was all about
you take a blood test and there are
either ketones in your bloodstream or
there are not so if you're going to
Define keto 2.0 so if keto 1.0 were
defined by ketones in your bloodstream
what's keto 2.0 it's mid fat and fiber
fat so use quantity of fat so you still
think fat before carbs however
it's different now because there's the
the ratio has now changed where you can
have more carbohydrates so just think
about it like that it's really it's
really allowing more fiber through
allowing more carbohydrates
so people consist they feel like they
can sustain longer and that's the key so
whenever you have comfort in eating the
results are far greater so it's a it's
about allowing the body to experience
Comfort if we see a younger generation
coming in and their tolerance for things
like uh you know I remember just driving
myself trying different diets and
bodybuilding and body and weights and
you know doing shows and competitions
and how lean a mind can I see this am I
ripped and it's very different now
so now what they want to see is they
want to they want to have more peace
they want to feel more fulfilled it's
much more about loving themselves we're
starting to really change all that that
pain gain thing and we're going more
towards you know let's feel better all
the way around let's feel better let's
have joy let's feel better somehow this
word Joy has captured people and they
actually want to experience more joy and
not as much of the grind
it's interesting and that certainly
brings up stress so uh what's the role
to stress when we think about longevity
how detrimental how does that impact us
what do we do to solve some of the
problems that it creates yeah so that is
the entrepreneurial's Dilemma yes okay
and that's funny because when we start
achieving greatness and more greatness
and we start really achieving all of
these things
sometimes life doesn't get easier on our
bodies and and we really start
experiencing more stress than we did
before and we have to figure out how to
manage it because I can tell you stress
will take you down every time
everyone has stress in their life and
somehow and that's what I realized in
talking with all these people that
everyone has some kind of stress and
stress damages cells
and so I know that you went through a
really stressful period that manifested
in losing Consciousness on a flight
which is uh sounds uh terrifying yes
what have you done to rebuild from that
like what are you doing now to de-stress
is it about Joy is it about uh
meditation Forest bathing like what are
the things that you're actually doing
that are somewhat prescriptive that
people could follow if they're trying to
to bring their stress down for me I
think a lot of my stress had to do with
not having boundaries
I was boundary deficient I was boundary
deficient in so many areas of my life I
look back and even when I look back if I
look at pictures or selfies it's like
how did you not see that coming you
looked burnt out you were burnt out so I
was on this plane uh and I remember the
woman sitting next to me she was in the
middle of putting a cookie in her mouth
I'm not kidding and I turned to her and
I said hey my name is kellyanne I'm not
feeling well I'm on not on any
medications but I'm probably going to
pass that you're gonna have to get me
help that was the last thing I remember
next thing I was in The Galley of the
plane with all the airline the airline
stewardess and such putting ice and
packing ice everywhere and I was going
in and out of Consciousness and all I
heard was is there a doctor on board is
there a medical professional on board
and I'm laughing in the back saying yeah
right here but you know so there was a
gentleman on the plane that was a doctor
that was going to his class reunion he
happened to be on that flight and at the
end of all of it and he sat with me the
whole time they made sure I had
hydration was checking my pulse all of
this the Andy said kellyanne you do
realize you're burnt out right you have
to do something you're burned out the
problem is Tom is that we become very
numb we go through life day after day we
numb down numb down numb down and we
somehow we have to stop and we have to
say how am I feeling how do I feel
because it's that disconnection I'm
going to get woo-woo here it's that
disconnection from The Source from our
source and understanding where our power
really comes from and really connecting
and understanding that we're going to
get walloped if we do not stay present
because that that's when our body really
manifests and holds on to all that
stress that stress is tough and it's
tough on the body how do you stay
centered how do you find that alignment
like what do you do on a daily basis or
a weekly or you know whatever your
Cadence is well for one thing exercise
is very important kind of exercise I do
all kind of exercises different kind I
do limbic type of exercises so it's
exercises that allow my body to breathe
and to move I do yoga I do dance I do a
lot of dance I do weights I like to
really move my body and then I like to
be still so you have to get into
meditation and understanding breathing
and just finding that time to absolutely
reconnect with yourself because we're
losing a connection to ourselves and if
I had really realized this I had to
learn this through going through this
myself
so many of the patients that I saw I
realize now that's what they that's what
they were going through they were
disconnected and they stopped feeling
they were just getting through the day
and you know getting through this and
getting through this and getting through
this and after a while it comes back and
your body gets the ultimate Revenge your
body will get revenge
why do you call it Revenge out of
curiosity yeah I call it Revenge because
your body starts giving you signals and
you
you can get sick for me my revenge was I
got extremely exhausted and passed out
on a plane and my my body was saying how
many times do we have to tell you
because your body does give you signs
and and signals so how do people listen
for that what are they listening for how
does it manifest like what was it now
looking back leading up to that moment
because you had a real sense of presence
to be able to say I know where this is
going what was it leading up to that
that if it were to happen again that you
would catch it much earlier oh my gosh
first of all I I when I looked at my
eyes and a lot of these these pictures
they were sunken in my eyes lost their
life
my skin had a got very stolen and didn't
have Vibrance to it and I was proud of
myself on things like that in my body I
always kept it you know kind of uh very
fit and like a ballerina very smooth and
I just started gaining that cortisol
Tire
I had all the signs of exhaustion and
the thing is is I I lost my I lost my
Lust For Life in the same way that I
have now or that I had before that I
because I just I was and I wasn't even
aware and that's the thing I talk to
patients that have been in marriages and
and they they became really ill staying
in relationships that were that were not
serving them and it wasn't until they
got out of the situation they didn't
realize they didn't realize how bad they
felt they didn't realize how that every
day hit of you know leaking your power
and leaking your energy that every day
hit every how it affected them
and it really does and you just have to
stay attuned and just ask yourself how
you feel
and you'll notice things like you know
gosh how tired am I do I have achy
joints I mean look at my skin let me see
my eyes so I still feel vibrant do I
still have you know Lust For Life how do
you feel like stopping and asking that
question is a really important question
to ask and we don't we just we just go
through it we go through it and and you
know I had to learn and I would never
allow that to happen again I would never
say yes to as many things as I said yes
to I would never allow people that were
not well intended in my life again I
would never Pummel through work to make
other people happy instead of myself I
would never put any other Mission
besides a mission that will serve me and
those you know that I love I would never
put that before anything else and a lot
of a lot of everything in life I'm
really finding out it does have to do
with the six six inches between your
ears it's a mindset thing you know
that's interesting so I'm interested in
this concept of reset which I know know
you also talk about from a true just
diet and bodily perspective but talk to
me about it from a mindset perspective
how do you reset what are you doing
um when you're dancing is there anything
conscious going on there or is that just
sort of realigning yourself through
Rhythm and movement or in meditation is
it a an awareness like a mindfulness
practice like what what are what are you
doing mindset-wise yeah it's
understanding that we are not just Skin
and Bones we're atoms and molecules we
have a megahertz our cells communicate
this unbelievable life that we have
inside of us and understanding this big
ball of energy and saying you know what
I want to harness that energy
want to harness it and I don't want to
leak it I want to keep it in that's the
understanding and then when I go into
meditation or I go into dance or
anything like that I'm visually
picturing what I want I call it my own
television show it's in my mind it's
locked in here and it's strong and that
is one of the biggest differences that
I've ever made in my life is really
pulling things towards me and
understanding how possible this really
is it has been life-changing for me life
changing I need to understand more about
that so okay the process is you're
sitting there you're finding physical
Stillness every day I find physical
Stillness it has got to be habitual this
will only work if you do it on a regular
basis and it can take three four minutes
a day sit down Pull up your own TV show
you see you everything you want you
desire everything everything that's for
your greater good everything that you
that that is your purpose you see it as
if it's happening and I picture myself
telling someone else all of these
amazing things about my physical
my personal life my business life all of
it as if it is already there
so my body is working and functioning in
that modem as if it's already there and
funny enough how people show up to make
and realize all of those things that
you're putting in your in your mind and
you're you're just locking it in your
mind and it's not about well if I go sit
and meditate you know underneath this
tree every day I'm going to pull
everything towards me I want you to know
that is not one part of my body that
would ever do that to think that that's
all I need to do to do to make things
happen you have to take action you have
to take action but there's a certain
there's a certain thing that happens in
your mind in your cells in your body
when you really concentrate and you
focus on that and then you go so there's
the metaphysical and then there's the
physical and you want to be able to
capture and really work in both worlds
because that's where the magic really
happens really capturing capturing your
your future by demanding it demand it
demand what you want demand it within
yourself and then you go and you get it
and it's it's funny because I'll go up
to people and it's very natural for me
now to ask for what I want it's because
I'm putting I'm locking it in my body in
my physiology I walk like you have to
assume the position assume the position
of your day and I tell myself this and I
start my day like a tiger
I want to be a tiger that's it what does
that mean so what are the attributes so
attributes of a tiger is someone who's
Fearless someone who's bolded because
one of the things that I've learned is I
sat on the bed through my my Swiss
training I sat on the bed of a lot of
people who were dying
you know what they had Tom regrets
that is what you hear so often what are
some common ones that's actually really
interesting it's really interesting and
here's the biggest thing that they
regret
a lot of people they were they were
wealthy a lot of these people and they
regretted that they did not spend more
time with their children and the other
big one was that they regretted that
they didn't go for it that they had at
all any fear in going for anything that
they wanted
it's interesting that that's successful
people saying that I think there's
something very interesting to take away
from that in terms of
having success in one area of your life
first of all I think a lot of people
think oh if I had financial success that
I would stop and retire and it does not
work like that like being successful
answers yesterday's problem it certainly
does not answer today or tomorrow's
problem you still have that desperate
thirst for meaning and purpose and does
not go live and to feed your energy yeah
it doesn't even I I think it doesn't
even get tainted at all I think it's in
your DNA and you have to respect and
honor your DNA and who you are a lot of
us are very Mission based because it's
that mission in you that just drives you
you know I have my missions I have my
anger I have it in my head and
everything is leading leading leading
leading to that you know to that overall
mission and again
I can't imagine any level of success
that you know is in front of me that
would stop me from wanting to be
that person that tiger and I'm not
saying it's not good to you know stop
ask yourself slow down I'm not saying
any of that but what I'm saying is I
honor my DNA I honor the fact that my
friends growing up were reading Cosmo
magazine and I was reading the diabetes
journal with Mary Tyler Moore on the
cover
I honor everything you know all of those
things I honor that you know there's
parts of me that are different than a
lot of other people in terms of this
drive that I have
you know respecting and honor and that
drive but at the same time not burning
out over that drive yeah that that's an
interesting dichotomy for somebody who
found themselves pushing so hard saying
yes to everything that they end up
having an episode to still be able to
get on the other side of that and say
okay I've got the awareness now I know
what I'm looking out for I know this has
to be Mission based but at the same time
I'm not giving up that drive I still
want to be the tiger I still want to
have a level I have to be see there's
certain things I think that are more
destructive than anything else not
honoring who you really are
that is so destructive to the body every
day living or being something that you
really don't want to be living in a way
that you don't want to live and I'll
tell you that's again it stems back from
the experience of listening to people
dying and saying I'm not no I'm not
doing that I'm going to express
everything don't you feel like you want
to live your life and like squeeze every
bit of potential that you have very much
so and when I see other people I would
have squeeze it out of them I want to
squeeze it out of them so I feel like my
job and my role is to wake people up in
that sense I want to pull people out of
the tunnel I've been through us the
tunnel is feeling aimless and dark and
lost and not sure you're not sure and
you're numb I'm telling you how do you
get them out of that you make them
become aware and re-engage with
themselves then you see someone really
on fire you know the purpose is the key
all the money all of this and all of
that all of this and that it's great to
have the security it's great to have
that security ain't going to make you
happy you know it's just not it's just
not it's not it's not enough
it's not enough and your body you know
your body has has this intelligence it's
very interesting how the body works and
the innate intelligence that it has and
the signs and the signals that it gives
you throughout your life just what
you're interested in and you know I was
told by a college professor years ago
you'll know what you want to do where do
you go when you go in a bookstore a
library where do you where's your
attention where did you where and it was
always the same for me it was always
those damn Health books it would drive
people crazy going to the beach they'd
flip open their novels I always sit
there with my health stuff I mean it was
obvious but you have to pay attention to
all these things about yourself and I am
seeing that now more than ever people
really being who they are it's just not
worth it just be a tiger go for it go
for whatever don't be don't be
embarrassed don't be shy don't whatever
it is and I just have a belief that you
know I'm gonna say whatever I'm supposed
to say and I'm not going to get wired
about it I'm happy to be here happy to
dispel any information or anything that
I can get anyone that's going to help
you just I'm going to be a tiger about
it you know well speaking of information
that will help uh let's come to the gut
for a second so gut health obviously a
huge part of what you do bone broth
healing the gut how many people start
sort of with a gut based struggle and
then what's the protocol to help them
get out of that yeah so I would say most
people come in with a gut based struggle
and we see a lot of autoimmune problems
we see a lot of people with bloating
constipation skin rashes achy joints
these these are all signs and
symptomologies of somebody who who
likely has a gut that needs healing and
so bone broth I love because it has this
Perfect Blend of nutrition so there's
amino acids which are upbuilding and
you've got some minerals that come out
and we're also deficient in minerals and
so many of the things that go on with us
are really because we're lower in
minerals so is there a difference
between doing bone broth and just
cracking the bone open and eating the
marrow would you get a different
um nutritional intake you may get a
little different because you're going to
get more Glycine and glycine is really
helpful for so many things and we find
that it's more hydrating to the body but
you know this just that bone marrow I
could eat that till the cows come home a
bone marrow is so good for you I mean
you have to think about like this and
this is why I love bone broth for gut
healing if you get a sunburn you reach
for Aloe Vera you put it on because it
soothes and it heals the skin well bone
broth the gelatin cook collagen the bone
broth
that does the same thing for your gut it
heals and it seals the gut and it works
so you've got the collagen in there the
collagen which is the gelatin which is
so good for the gut you've got minerals
in there you've got great protein in
there you've got amino acids in there
and the research also shows us one of
the things that we know that helps
prevent a cold and the duration of a
cold are these soups they're really
helpful for the immune system
so you know there's a lot of benefits to
it and I put it in programs and weight
loss programs and things over the years
with intermittent fasting to help people
get even more benefits compounded
benefits but anything that does any one
thing that does this many things I love
yeah we really have some people that are
even angelical about bone broth here on
staff it was a big part of Lisa's
recovery it was super super impactful
for her
is there a big nutrient difference
between making it yourself from Whole
bones and getting powdered it's whole
bones is better okay pattern is pretty
close I mean there's some really good
powders on the market right now same
thing with the Frozen broth that's
really easy there's tons of good Frozen
broth that you can buy anywhere now
that's really good and you just put hot
water over the bag it comes in a bag you
put hot water over it you put it in the
pot and you can have it very quickly
there's pressure cookers now that you
can make bone broth in you can cook it
quicker but it's that simmering for a
long period of time letting all that
good stuff come into the into that broth
and it really is very healing for people
I think the word that comes to mind when
I think of bone broth is restorative
is there any gut issue where you don't
recommend bone broth because oh man the
one thing I've learned with what my wife
has been through is that healing gut
issues is so complicated people don't
know that how complicated it can be and
well it's not only complicated but it
takes a long time and you have to be
patient have to understand that that 20
plus feeds of intestines that are going
through that it's a long narrow tube and
you've got you know so many microbes in
your body and you want them to work for
you and it gets you've got more microbes
these these bugs in your body than you
do actual cells in your body so you want
to nurture them you want to nurture that
soil and you want to really make that
soil so that so that every 21 days when
you have that cellular turnover you're
getting that it's healthy healthy
healthy healthy soil as you possibly can
so you can really heal that gut at the
same time sealing everything up it does
take time but let me tell you Tom when
it happens bam the magic happens
skin looks so much better your healing
capacity is so much higher you feel so
much more energized again longevity oh
my gosh I am telling you that is my core
anti-aging regimen that is you have to
have foundational Beauty if you decide
that you want to do all the other things
fine great I'm not opposed to that I
understand what it feels like to advance
an age I understand what that feels like
and you have to do what makes you happy
but I don't care what you do all that
other stuff would be cosmetic you know
adjustments yes you know all the stuff
and that's okay do all the stuff but you
have to realize foundational beauty is
where are real effervescence comes from
we know for a fact that we start losing
collagen at about age 20 we start losing
it little by little by little and the
collagen is like it's like Nature's glue
it holds us up it holds us together and
again for longevity for looking young
collagen it tends to be very helpful so
I throw collagen shake and you know
whenever I can I love collagen because
it's for me it's it's one of those I
used to experiment with all these shakes
especially during my bodybuilding phase
you competed in bodybuilding oh I was I
was fierce figure competitor or actual
bodybuilder oh it was an actual
bodybuilder wow how big were you
um well I was lean so my whole thing
bodybuilding is like a whole another
thing oh I used to go to Arnold Classics
every year I used to like you know that
would be my masterminds with those
people like like the Arnold I worked out
and like I do everything else I became
the tiger so I started working out
instead of just enjoying working out
like a normal person I was like how far
can I fly because that's the question I
always ask myself how far can I fly
I want to read a book or want to write a
book do I write one no I have five books
with Wiley publishing two with rodale
three with penguin random hat whatever I
have to see how far how far can I fly
that's how I live my life but again
getting back to the reason why I'm
sitting in this chair was the the latest
book and stuff it's how do I do that and
be that and not burn out that's the
question
every thought that we have creates
correlating chemistry in our bodies
instantaneously it's happening 24 7
always will never stop but that's the
part of medicine in the last couple of
generations there's been the separation
between mind and body