Kind: captions
Language: en
if you stack rank the things that are
going to be responsible for the
destruction of the American experiment
right number one is the fact that we let
ourselves get fat or sick or more
depressed more and fertile at an
increasing rate while bankrupt in the
country
[Music]
early in my career I consulted for Coke
to ensure sugar taxes failed and soda
was included in food stamp funding I say
Cokes policies are evil because I saw
inside the room the first step in the
Playbook was paying the NAACP plus other
civil rights groups to call opponents
racist what is going on with big food
and is it making us sick
cancer
Alzheimer's heart disease obesity
autoimmune conditions
these are all going up and they are all
foodborne illnesses
and the fact that there is not clear
communication about that from our
medical leaders and public policy
leaders I think is the biggest scandal
in America and the most dangerous
Scandal we are being brought to Our
Knees by metabolic dysfunction tied to
food eight of the ten killers of
Americans as I mentioned some of them
are directly tied to food that also
includes depression depression is
skyrocketing as Chris Palmer Howard and
some other prominent docs are pointing
out brain conditions aren't metabolic
dysfunctions I frame it that way to to
kind of set the table that what's
happening right now in America you know
where 30 percent of children children
have pre-diabetes where it's 80 of
adults are obese or overweight where 50
of adults have fatty liver disease and
20 of teens have fatty liver disease you
only saw this condition in elderly
alcoholics just a generation ago we're
destroying our human capital and
obviously our budget from something
we're being told is complicated but it's
very simple and it's taken me many many
years to come to this conclusion and as
I have through you know being inspired
by my sister and other leaders in the
metabolic Health space that we can talk
about I look back early my career and I
was raised with my sister kind of
compulsively to get all the all the
credentials you know we're working for
President Bush working for you know
prominent politicians Stanford Harvard
my sister and I both went went to
Stanford you know kind of going up the
ranks she became a doctor I was you know
advising politicians and and prominent
food and Pharma companies
um and I think a lot of people and I
certainly was like this kind of gets in
that path and uh and doesn't ask me any
questions and reflecting back early in
my career as I you know worked in
politics and then consulted for for food
and Pharma
um I I found myself helping specifically
Coca-Cola
uh keep a huge portion of their revenue
which was food stamp dollars 10 billion
dollars a year is transferred from the
government treasury to soda companies 10
billion dollars of money
um is uh goes from food stamps to to
soda uh to sugary drinks and this is a
nutrition program that 15 of the
American people depend on as their core
nutrition it's it's called Snap now you
know supplemental nutrition there's no
other country in the world that for
their key lower income nutrition program
right funnels that money to diabetes
water as I call it Sugar consumption
among children has gone up 100x in 100
years right it's not a medical mystery
why obesity childhood diabetes all these
things are skyrocketing it's because of
sugar but primarily it's because of the
new nuclear weapon to to metabolic
Health which is which is diabetes water
which is sugar water which is a
basically a new invention so we're
subsidizing that and Coke wanted to keep
it that way what is the game exactly is
it uh manipulate the way that people
think to get you to eat the most
addictive foods and so it's just a money
making scheme or is there something else
going on the biggest issue in the world
in my opinion is the devil spark and
where food is making us sick we're
getting addicted and it's making us sick
and then the medical system is profiting
it from the fact that everyone's getting
sick so taking the food companies
um in a way if you just take their
interests it kind of makes sense and and
just diving it specifically to working
for Coke they want to grow their
revenues and they want to keep food
cheap and they want to keep it addictive
so you have that strategic imperative
for their business and then it's like
how do we do that and it's very
straightforward it's how do we rig
institutions of trust so who are the
stakeholders the stakeholders or
consumers the stakeholders are lawmakers
so who do they trust they trust
um you know civil rights groups they
trust medical organizations they trust
their schools they trust their doctors
they trust researchers so you literally
just go go down the list and then it's
very simple it's like how do we rig
those institutions as much as we
possibly can when you say rig what do
you mean use them against the public
let's go into specific examples so the
Tweet was about the NAACP so prominent
civil rights organization has done
amazing things in American history but
right now prominent organizations like
the NAACP like the Hispanic Federation
like other many other prominent civil
rights groups are pay-to-play
organizations and this was as
transactional as going to McDonald's and
ordering a Big Mac
um I as a junior person had the
Strategic imperative to racialize the
debate around whether we should stop
food stamp money going to soda which was
a bipartisan issue it's not complicated
right when you call someone a racist or
a sexist right it shuts down the debate
so we call up to NAACP that you know we
the pr firms have their number there's a
lot of Partnerships and you schedule a
meeting and it's not like we're gonna
easily pay you and you're but it's like
hey your constituencies lower income
African-American children like their
Cokes here's the statistic and you know
they're trying to take that coke away
and trying to restrict Choice
um we'd love to do an honorarium a
donation you know millions of dollars in
this case and would you Marshal some of
your uh allies you know in various
States and on the federal level to say
that it's racist uh what's trying to
happen of restricting choice on food
stamps sure why isn't it why isn't that
actually true like maybe that really is
a racist thing to do and maybe we really
should be putting the brakes on it I
mean obviously I don't know that I that
isn't what I believe but I want to at
least look at that angle and figure out
how do we know that isn't true it's
important in the tweet that went viral I
used the word evil and I don't think
from being in the rooms you know with in
this case folks from the NAACP or other
institutions we can talk about I don't
think many people are like truly evil I
don't think the head of Pfizer is evil I
don't think the head of you know a
research group that's doing you know at
universities that's doing fraudulent
research is evil but the system is evil
so let's just take your question here
the NAACP has the express mission of
advocating for their Community which in
their case is African-Americans
particularly lower income and and and
and disadvantaged folks
the biggest civil rights issue in the
country the biggest social justice
history in the country is demonstrably
nutrition uh lower income American man
dies 11 years younger than an upper
income American man this is because of
one thing primarily it is because their
diet is on the lower income spectrum is
massively Ultra processed right it's
from these ingredients sugar seed oils
and highly processed grains and we can
dive into those three but those
literally didn't exist 100 years ago
these are you know biologically just
completely foreign
the fundamental argument is going to
come down to are they trying to get you
addicted are they sup is the government
subsidizing the foods that are most
addictive or does this all start with
good intentions and the government is
trying to subsidize the calories that
they think they can Mass produce for the
cheapest because when you look at you
know everybody thought we're gonna hit
some sort of population crisis this and
we're not going to be able to feed
people and it's going to be you know
cataclysmic doesn't come to pass we end
up finding ways to make food cheaper and
cheaper so it's like is the bargain hey
we've made you really cheap ingredients
corn soy I forget what the the three
hard grained corn whatever we've we've
made these calories extraordinarily
cheap and by the way right we we haven't
punished the people that eat the cheap
calories we've made them extremely
delicious now what you and I know is
bummer City that also ends up causing
all this disease and we're gonna have to
come face to face with that in a second
but first I want to like figure out
did do we think this started with good
intentions maybe does it even matter but
I think it began so I've been I become a
student of this issue and the answer is
yes it did start with good intentions
partly so this started with Nixon so
when Nixon was running for president for
re-election food prices was a huge uh
political issue so it's a big political
liability it was like one of the issues
of the campaign is fluctuating and
increasing food prices so he and and
hunger to some degree but it was really
around fluctuating food prices which
which were being traced to hunger um to
some degree so it was a big political
liability for him and also you could
argue a public policy problem at the
time so that steered This Modern
ecosystem we have today of massive uh
subsidies do you know the moment where
they decided what to subsidize yeah they
decided to subsidize things that become
shelf stable so they could they could
basically manage uh Food Supplies so
that was a shift that that was a
decision to shift from Whole Food but as
somebody that had to make shelf stable
items back in my last company uh it's
really pulling the water out of the item
it doesn't have to be I mean it is going
to be processed but it doesn't have to
be bad for you so did they we just
hadn't run the experiment people didn't
know well it's going to end up 80 of the
80 go right now and I think a lot of
what a lot of this is not in quest to to
what I'm seeing is is to highly
processed grains is to you know enrich
flour basically so if you look at any
you know go to a gas station and pick up
any processed food the first ingredient
probably second and third is some kind
of Highly processed grain and the
process or sugar quite frankly exactly
so so it's sugar acetyls and highly
processed grains it's actually
miraculous what American Ingenuity can
do with those three ingredients you you
take any food into some mixture of those
things and you know it's usually a
multiple sugars multiply highly
processed grains and multiple seed oils
canola soybean things like that so the
processing of the grain means taking the
fiber off which you know the fiber is
what number one blunts the glucose
impact
um of a whole grain right number two
it's where a lot of the nutrition is but
it it erodes it goes stale so the
processing is taking that fiber off so
that's what the 70s with these good
intentions basically did they're like we
need these things to sit on the shelf
for years
um so we're gonna we're gonna we're
gonna take that fiber off and then we're
gonna create these Franken Foods
um and add them with a lot of sugar to
make them more addictive and I know
you've talked to people in the past
who've helped weaponize and I think
weaponize is the right word our food
system you know this is this is one of
the largest Industries in the world and
they've got very smart people and then
as we've you know basically subsidized
and created more Franken foods and you
know since that time ultra processed
food has gone from well below 20 of our
diet to now close to 70 so so the the
incentives and this emphasis started
with good intentions but I but I I'd
actually frame question like taking it
today is like what is the biggest
problem in the world today the biggest
problem in the country like if you stack
rank the things that are gonna uh be
responsible for the destruction of the
American experiment right number one is
the fact that we let ourselves get fat
or sick or more depressed more and
fertile at an increasing rate while
bankrupt in the country I mean we're 20
of you know we it's and I just wanted
like everyone to like really focus on
these statistics because I think when we
talk about the growth of healthcare
spending it's like our eyes gloss over
it's so common to hear this it's like 20
of GDP growing at an increasing rate
Healthcare is the largest and fastest
growing industry in the United States
let's just step out that's awesome and
think of people it's one of those I
think part of why people their eyes
gloss over is Healthcare is tied to like
every one of my employees cares about
their health care right every one of
them on the way in wants to know what
are the options that we offer for
insurance like people really care about
this and so what I think people miss and
this this is where you really got got my
attention yeah is you're like everything
is about creating confusion right and
the goal is just to create enough
confusion whether I'm shutting you down
because I'm calling you a racist and I'm
saying this is problematic or I'm
funding a study that says no no it's not
sugar it's not the problem genetics are
the problem or what's the most recent
one um gas stoves or gas stoves not what
you're cooking on them yeah exactly so
it's like they're they're trying to
create enough confusion so that this
seems like a very complicated thing and
we're all missing the point that the
reality is even this this is where I was
like we can't do this whole interview of
me not ask the questions even though I
don't agree with them they're even in
the hardcore like fitness health
industry people are like a calories a
calorie right and that if you're saying
that one calorie is better than another
you're out of your mind so if it's like
if the people that are shredded and they
look amazing and their whole focus is
Health even they're pushing something
that I'm like at a cellular level you
are out of your mind right then it you
understand how confusion ends up taking
over this whole argument
so I I've it's been an amazing journey
the past couple months as I said I was I
was born a race in DC started my career
there I've been met with 50 members of
Congress and Senators on this issue
actually uh some of them have DM me I've
been doing a lot of work in DC and and I
think even with them very well
intentioned they have kids they see the
massive metabolic dysfunction
pre-diabetes obesity among their
children they're very worried but just
just to paint a picture sitting with
members of Congress
they don't even understand the concept
fully that they're playing the game
that's been created for them where both
parties are debating how to increase
access to the system that's creating
destruction I run a company too and and
Healthcare is very important but
everyone's concerned about access to a
system that is causing violence and my
framework on this you have to explain
that my framework on this is is this is
I think how we've been gaslighted when
you can think of any medical miracle
like what would you say a medical like
to just what comes to mind when you
think of like what's really propelled
life expectancy in the last 100 years
antibiotics great so antibiotics is a
solve for an acute situation it's
something that's going to kill you
imminently that infection you take it
for a week and you stop using it any
medical I would I would argue anyone can
think of her name that's really
propelled life expectancy for it is for
an acute situation you know complicated
childbirth emergency surgical procedures
you know giving birth a hundred years
ago for a woman was more dangerous than
having breast cancer today that's crazy
you know an appendicitis a gunshot wound
you know these medical Miracles and you
know if you have a burst appendix or you
have something that's going to MLA kill
you we have a miracle medical system
Unfortunately today what's happened is
we've taken that trust and we've asked
people to trust the medical system on
chronic conditions so now 90 of health
care costs plus are on managing chronic
conditions of people that are already
sick and what's happened the more stands
we prescribe the more heart disease goes
up the more metformin we prescribe the
more diabetes goes up the more ssris we
prescribe the more depression and
suicide goes you have to be careful with
that one so because that isn't causative
right it's not like as in per well we
don't know I suppose but it's certainly
the studies have not been done to say
that the more statins you prescribe the
more our heart disease goes up but there
certainly is a correlation that we have
not managed to reduce the incidence of
that but there's one thing before we get
lost in that that I want to say is that
the thing that I think people are
missing about health care is that it
isn't Healthcare it's sick care right
and so the whole system is designed hey
something is making you sick which is
great for business if you're in the
quote-unquote health care industry but
the uh the hypothesis I would put down
and I know that you'd put down the same
one is the thing that's making you sick
predominantly there are probably other
problems as well but the thing that's
making you sick predominantly is what
you're eating so you're eating something
that's making you sick in this really
chronic slow uh gives us lots of
symptoms to treat with law lots of
medication that you have to take every
day and that's great for business and so
now you've got insurance companies that
the only way for them because there's
regulations the only way for them to get
their bottom line to go up is to get
more sick people because they have to
pay out what all but 15 or something
that's right so they they they're hemmed
in from how they can make money oh if
more people get sick amazing so while
they're not necessarily driving the food
industry they probably aren't doing
their best to Lobby against the things
that are happening to make certain
things cheaper because those things are
making us sicker so on and so forth so
people switch it and we called it like
sickness management
and then we had preventive health care
then I think there would be a much like
people would approach us with their eyes
open to the real problem you would never
design a system you'd never come down
you know as an alien come down to earth
and see 80 of adults having obesity or
being overweight 50 diabetes or
pre-diabetes rate among adults 93 of
Americans metabolic dysfunctional it's
driving you know 90 to 95 of all health
care costs eight out of 10 leading costs
of death you'd never say let's wait for
everyone to get sick and then give them
an incremental pill one thing I'd push
on a little bit is that I think we put
nutrition and lifestyle habits in this
Niche preventative box you know when my
sister Dr Casey means was at Stanford
Medical School
um and you know a patient with a
debilitating migraines and depression
and hypertension she mentioned maybe
they should look at their diet uh the
attending surgeon said don't be a [ __ ]
and said we did not go to nutrition
school we do serious medical
interventions here which is through a
prescription pad or through a surgical
energy so that is the predominant
mindset in American medicine right
that's doctors aren't nutritionists
there's 90 of doctors uh graduate
without one nutrition class 80 of Med
schools in the United States to this day
Stanford Harvard on down don't require a
single nutrition class to do good to uh
to graduate So Scandalous this is where
it points to something other than evil
this is just moronic
well I think the system is evil I don't
think the dean of Stanford Medical
School is evil right but when Casey was
there the dean of Stanford Medical
School was a pain specialist Dr piso and
he the lifeblood of medical schools
right is is funding and research funding
and the vast majority of that comes from
Pharma so when he was Dean of Stanford
Medical School Dr Philip piso he
accepted a multi-million dollar donation
from Pfizer another leading uh opioid
companies okay and they built a new
center and then he was appointed to the
NIH panel to make in 2011 I believe to
make uh opioid guidance
and he appointed 90 of the people uh
that he brought on that panel also had
conflicts not just with their research
funding but personal Consulting payments
from opioid companies and they created
more relaxed opioid standards and today
when you hear about the opioid crisis 80
to 90 percent of people that overdose
and die from illicit opioids that
started with the legal Prescription Pad
so it's all it's all very nice but like
that's how the system works so it's like
is Philip Piezo who's still at Stanford
is he a terrible person uh I don't think
so but I do think it's a lack of moral
Clarity and frankly a lack of leadership
that they don't call this out you know I
have talked on this journey to leaders
at you know Harvard Medical School to
leaders at insurance companies to
leaders at pharmaceutical companies
they're aware of what's going on but
there's plausible deniability for
everyone in the system so I I do
actually think and and you know I'm
advised you know Everyone likes their
doctor not to attack doctors and I think
doctors by and large are doing great
work on an individual level and trapped
in a bad system but I will say this I
think anyone smart in these systems I I
think understands what's going on and
and it's not it's just going back to
what you said real quick it's not that
we need to stress I don't like this
bucket of prevention
interesting one food is the best
reversal it's the best reversal so let's
just take the ounce of prevention is
worth a pound of cure but but but but I
think we we put food in this Niche it's
very important for prevention we should
be if we if we were creating our
Healthcare System from scratch we'd be
paying you just want them to also use it
instead of drugs for curing someone I'm
asking I'm asking the medical system to
trust the science take somebody with
alzheimer's take somebody with
depression right take somebody with with
other conditions let's take those one by
one Alzheimer's is now called type 3
diabetes the book the end of Alzheimer's
a lot of research coming out of major
universities by far the most uh
efficacious way to reverse you can
actually reverse dementia is a rigorous
food and lifestyle intervention and you
know a lot of people in the medical
system throw up their hands like
nobody's going to do that no patients
are told that I've talked to I have yet
to meet a person whose parents are
dealing with Alzheimer's who's even been
mentioned that from the doctors it's not
in the standards of care you know we we
we Propel government money tens of
thousands of dollars if not more per
patient per Alzheimer's patient we could
pay those patients to exercise like
there's public policy means to promote
what is the best medicine depression 150
minutes of moderate exercise Zone 2
exercise like light exercise for three
months consistently 150 minutes a week
is according to peer-reviewed academic
studies is more effective than SSRI the
leading antidepressant with less side
effects uh psychologists aren't telling
that to patients your mission is
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let's go to another one diabetes we
spend a trillion dollars plus of
government money on Diabetes management
Intel 2018
the American Diabetes Association which
sets the standard of care for diabetes
says that if you take your drugs you can
eat whatever you want they literally
said that on their website they said you
can continue eating whatever food you
want and just just real quick back to
the stands and that form and these drugs
not I would argue actually they are I'd
agree you actually said they're positive
absolutely because what's happening is
when you're given a Statin it's like
this solves the problem right when
you're given metformin literally the
American Diabetes Association is saying
you can even eat whatever you want when
now with ozympic you have Dr Fatima
Stanford at Harvard you know on 60
Minutes saying saying that obesity is
genetic that it is quote not tied to
food or lifestyle that is crazy there is
no Universe in which that was hey what's
up there's no way on 60 Minutes
not 60 minutes there's no way and she
said uh food it it it's it's a relic of
the past to Thai food and she said it's
quote a brain disease and genetic this
issue that's only been an issue in the
past 50 years so so so think about this
this is this is the food food is not
implicated in obesity according to this
person everyone should watch Dr Fatima
Stanford who's the lead obesity doctor
at Harvard uh talking on 60 Minutes she
has paid tens of thousands of dollars a
year a year by nobo nordics the maker of
ozempic and of course this new field of
obesity medicine it stands to gain
lifetime patience so Dr Fatima Stanford
at Harvard has also said that it is
quote structural racism to not have
Government funding for ozembic so let's
go back you know we're going all over
the place here I think it's good I think
this is a complicated multifacet issue
but let's go back to the NAACP right
this is actually crazy
so the NAACP the number one issue for
African-American children right it's
it's skyrocketing rates of diabetes
obesity which is really setting their
their lives back obesity is cellular
dysregulation protecting the brain
you're over two times more likely to
commit suicide or high depression if you
have you know pre-diabetes or you know
or obesity excuse me
diabetes is cellular dysregulation and
obesity is the visual manifestation of
that that's the problem right like the
problem is that there's not great habits
and we're eating inflammatory food so
the NAACP didn't look at that they said
let's keep soda now you wouldn't even
believe this the NAACP is being paid by
ozympic to argue that it's a civil
rights issue to give those same kids
ozympic okay and here's the problem with
that here's the problem with the stand
in that form and this siloing of
conditions when patients are told the
Statin solves the problem the asymptic
solves the problem and don't change what
they're putting in their bodies it's
just so simple they're continuing
patients are going continuing to put
inflammatory food into their bodies
which leads into other you know unlucky
conditions that leads into other
comorbidities eighty percent of people
with diabetes have at least three other
chronic conditions my mom who's really
been in this huge inspiration for me
right is a perfect example of this I was
born at 12 pounds large baby clear sign
that she had metabolic dysfunction she
got high fives from the doctor oh it's a
big baby a great job gestational
diabetes everyone has that a couple
years later she had
um high cholesterol Statin it's a rite
of passage no problem a couple years
later metformin pre-diabetes it's fine
fifty percent of people sixty percent of
people your age have it's not a problem
hypertension medications oh it's fine
you know not even a not even a blip not
even these are rights of Passage
um so she has all these comorbidities
and then she's taking a hike she feels a
pain in her stomach she goes and gets a
scan has stage four pancreatic cancer
and is dead 12 days later Jesus
pancreatic cancer is a foodborne illness
every every single one of those
instances right from my birth on
was an opportunity it was a it was a
warning sign these things are connected
they're not siled conditions heart
disease is not a stand deficiency
obesity is not a Olympic deficiency so I
do think it's very causal and I think
this Ridiculousness of asking for the
peer-reviewed studies to show that we
shouldn't be eating highly processed
[ __ ] is playing on the wrong game we're
the only animal
in the in the world
that systematically obese and metabolic
dysfunctional aside from the animals
that we've domesticated and feed our
food like like we don't need studies for
this you don't have systematic rates of
diabetes and obesity among wild wolves
but dogs that we've domesticated haven't
50 cancer rate and a 50 depression uh
depression rate that's what I that's
what I would argue to you I think it's
systematically happening with the
complexity issue is that we've siled
diseases into all of these Lanes when
Casey graduated Stanford Medical School
she had to decide between 42 Specialties
um right right a doctor devotes their
entire lives you know to a couple square
inches of the body
um that's the way our system works and
we have lost our way on that and we have
really
I think it's gets to actually a
spiritual crisis
um in our country where we've completely
taken ourselves away you know from any
type of curiosity or awe about you know
our bodies what's going into them you
know extra you know exercise movement
sleep looking at the sun you know
literally like if you know looking at
the sun when Casey talked about that in
these more kind of metabolics I assume
you mean get sunlight on your skin don't
look at the sun getting some sunlight in
your eyes I mean Dr human's talking a
lot about that but you know direct
sunlight in your eyes anyway yeah this
is huge before we go on because there's
something really important so I want to
use Cali means to contradict Cali means
so as as we were going you said I really
want people to follow the science and
then you said we don't need studies to
understand this and you put out a tweet
uh which I thought was really amazing uh
heart disease obesity diabetes
depression kidney disease autoimmune
conditions stroke and allergies have all
skyrocketed at the exact time we started
spending money to treat them the medical
system deserves zero trust on chronic
disease management right and so what I
say to all that is I think this goes
back to your initial idea that confusion
is being weaponized but it is confusing
and as somebody that I've had so many
people on the show and the number of
comments that I get from people like
which is it man some people are telling
me I need to eat meat other people are
telling me I need to be vegan other
people are telling me I need to do both
some people are telling me I need
supplements some not supplements some
are saying skin cancer is a result of
getting some exposure other people like
you're gonna die of 18 different cancers
if you don't get sun on your skin it's
like what am I supposed to do
so if I were to boil the nature of the
problem from a non-political standpoint
we'll get to that because I think it's
really important and we we're certainly
going to have to face that but I think
part of what's going on here is that we
have given up on making people
responsible for their own body and man I
get it it comes from a great place
people don't want to see people suffer
but at the end of the day you cannot
just write people off and my favorite
story along these lines is from a guy
named Jim Abrams and he was the guy that
directed the movie Airplane back in the
70s uh and his son had intractable
seizures and they couldn't get him to
stop and he was having like a hundred
grand mal seizures a day like imagine
that stunting your growth your
intellectual developments on pause he
goes to the doctor trying everything
drugs everything nothing's working
nothing's working and then he was like
man I don't trust the medical
establishment I'm going to figure this
out for myself goes and looks it up
finds some ancient study from like the
50s or something something that's like
oh by the way there's this thing called
the ketogenic diet it can be used to
treat
can be used to treat uh seizures right
and so he goes to the doctor and he's
like why didn't you tell me about this
and the doctor's like oh because nobody
will stick with it and he was like
[ __ ] like you need to let me
know what my options are and then we'll
see he puts his son on a ketogenic diet
his son has not had a seizure in like 25
years so the fact that people aren't
even being given like that they're not
studying this first of all is madness
the fact that the doctors themselves I
would love to know us that how many
doctors are overweight and suffer from a
lot of these higher than the general
population because here's the thing they
don't understand because they're they're
abdicating their own responsibility to
say like I should be able to figure this
out so for instance I have a rule in my
own life I avoid supplements wherever
humanly possible I avoid drugs wherever
possible it doesn't mean I don't take
the occasional drug if I need something
let me tell you right now I will [ __ ]
take it and I'm very glad they exist but
but if I I never take a drug until I've
tried some sort of lifestyle or dietary
intervention first
and the number of things that that is
addressed in my life including the one
that I thought for sure was only going
to have a drug solution which was
anxiety and PS if you have anxiety and
you're struggling by all means try a
drug but I would say if you can avoid
being on it every day that would be way
better and for me
the the impact of diet on my anxiety was
life-changing
and so the fact that and this this is
probably this is definitely my own life
philosophy leaking out here man people
need to your life is an exact reflection
of your choices that is going to be
unpopular and people are gonna flame me
in the comments but I'm just telling you
right now if you act as if your life is
an exact reflection of your choices you
will put yourself in the driver's seat
you will make wiser choices and you will
have a shot at getting out of this but
when the pushback on people is well
nobody's going to adhere to that Diet
before we started rolling you said the
argument is people might go from Honey
Nut Cheerios to Cheerios but they're
never going to go from Honey Nut
Cheerios to chicken breast
that is a big part of the problem
because the studies are all over the
place you're going to get conflicting
information but if you just figure out
what works for you you will be fine
so many people are listening this
podcast
from Joe Joe Rogan you know on down for
whether it's a health focused or just
general focus the most popular
Independent Media in the country the
most popular books in the country the
most popular outlets in the country are
talking about people taking empowerment
on their health I think there is a
Sinister and wrong idea about the
American people that's propagated by the
medical system is that they're lazy
think about what we're being told
when you are highly obese your life
expectancy is like eight years younger
right you know my mom was desperately
trying you know to not miss the birth of
my son which he did
she didn't want to miss that she had her
her
um house was stacked with books by Dr
Mark Hyman and Robert lustig and
metabolic Health Pioneers
um people aren't trying to miss walking
their daughter down the aisle
um have a shorter more depressed life
like like this is a lie I think a
Sinister lie that doctors are
indoctrinated with from the moment med
school starts
um that they stand with the prescription
pad and the scalpel you know to clean up
the mess of this lazy American
population that is addicted to their
sugary drinks and their Big Macs and
sedentary Lifestyles
um that is just not the case so there's
a Bottoms Up and a top down and I think
everyone listen to this podcast you know
and reading these books are on a Bottoms
Up Revolution where I think they're
trying to be around longer for their
kids and looking around at kids
concerned I think there is a just an
uprising and just indignation of what's
happening to kids in this country
there's big lobbying groups for
Coca-Cola no lobbying groups the fact
that 30 of kids now are pre-diabetic so
so I just think that whole this whole
idea you know people want to be healthy
that is a premise I refuse to be
dissuaded of
um and people need the information and
the first message that I'm trying to
establish is the first part of Bottoms
Up is understanding the systems that you
operate in and Having the courage to
speak out when the American Academy of
Pediatrics the majority of their funding
comes from Pharma they receive millions
of dollars from the maker of ozempic
they received millions of dollars from
makers of diabetes drugs
right and they said that the first thing
a kid should use highly processed grains
they're arguing where did they say that
the American Academy Pediatrics gives a
pediatricians give a pamphlet out and
they say the first thing you should a
child should eat is is um little Puffs a
little that literally that's what the
recommendation from breast milk to Coke
Puffs to Puffs which is which is just
absurd obviously if you think about just
how we're biologically and evolutionary
made
um you know what to eat
um and of course the American Academy of
Pediatrics with absolute violence
happening against kids you know as we're
subsidizing tens of billions of dollars
for soda why do you call it violence
because their cells are we have violence
occurring to the cells of children
pre-diabetes is violence occurring to
their cells a child born today right a
teenager has a 45 rate of obesity or
um being overweight the 20 fatty liver
disease rate uh 40 of 18 year olds right
now qualify
as having a mental illness
whoa the American Academy of Pediatrics
which is credentialed to set the
standard of care you know for how
children are treated in the United
States a doctor will be reprimanded if
they go against the American Academy of
Pediatrics guidelines they were nowhere
to be found during the food stamp debate
with Coke in fact I was helping to
engineer payments from Coke the American
Academy of Pediatrics which accepts
processed food money at that time I saw
as Coke funneled millions of dollars to
the American Diabetes Association that's
crazy the American Diabetes Association
accepted money from Coke millions of
dollars they said that small cans of
coke you know might be a good idea might
be a good idea or doesn't hurt as much
it was on the website that that small
cans of coke might be an option for
diabetics also the the the group that
credentials and sets uh nutritionist
policy uh accepted money from Coke so
that was a huge strategy so they gladly
accepted money and now the American
Academy of Pediatrics instead of saying
you know that a child who's 12 and obese
needs to learn how to eat whole food not
eat Ultra processed food and not be
sedentary so they can live a mentally
and physically healthy life and be a
productive member of society they are
saying that child needs a shot a weekly
shot of zympic which the label your
racist which the label says that you
should take it for your entire life not
go off of it or you will have massive
metabolic dysfunction I mean you know
just just going to kind of I think where
the lack of leadership moral cowardice
is you can take this to every
institution you know I raised from a lot
of or met with a lot of venture
capitalists for my new thing right A lot
of them are investing in this sick care
system you know Alexis ohani and this
this guy that's very vocal on social
justice issues is on the board of Roe
and is is tweeting now how it's an
urgent imperative what's wrong row is a
uh Rose is the largest direct consumer
one of them they're trying they're
putting up Billboards in New York City
saying that Millennials should be
getting ozympic and they're writing blog
posts saying it's an urgent National
imperative for government funding for
ozympic for for for for 80 percent of
the population whose obese or away to
steer instead of two thousand dollars a
month of government money which is what
ozympic is instead of steering that to
better food we need to steer that to a
zippy you have leading investors now
saying that that's an urgent National
imperative you know who are also talking
about other social justice issues like
that like he's not a bad person this
Alexis still handing a guy but but but
if we're really concerned about that 12
year old a particularly an
underprivileged 12 year old
these incentives have blinded us and I
do think that's violence to kids I think
there is an absolute lack of moral
Clarity among adults
um who are paying their mortgages you
know and and buying their houses in the
Hamptons
um and um and going on their vacations
funded by a safe care system I mean this
is a this is a material part of the
economy 78 of states in the United
States the largest employer is a
hospital system or a food retailer
Walmart these are the really by some
respects the two largest Industries in
the United States so people's mortgages
you know and then then just take it to
the investing and the Consulting you
know for these industries it's it's such
a massive part of the economy we've been
we've been blinded I think
wow okay so I want to lay out what I
think is the solution so we've we've
done a reasonably good job and there's
probably more to go but in terms of the
problem so uh in fact quick synopsis of
the problem you've got
ingredients or crops that are being
subsidized by the government that make
calories cheaper and Eve and delicious
and even if it was started with good
intentions we're now at the point where
um for a certain subset of the
population it is beyond self-evident
that the root cause of most modern
ailments what you're calling eight out
of the ten top killers are what the
words you use are foodborne illnesses
which I like
um I will say food caused so it's your
your diet is causing metabolic disease
and that metabolic disease manifests in
different ways in different people but
it's eight out of the ten top killers
and so you're eating too many grains
you're eating way too much sugar you're
eating way too many highly processed
food items okay that's the problem
that's creating this metabolic
dysregulation which is killing people on
the installment plan all right solution
to me is really simple and people can
argue about the Finesse of this we
whether you should be vegan or whether
meat or carnivore or whatever honestly
on that I don't care yeah but I will say
that the really simple Baseline so that
people don't feel like oh this is all
over my head
eat whole food whenever possible avoid
anything that spikes your glucose uh get
plenty of sleep get sunlight exercise if
you do those like you're going to
minimize your disease burden you're
going to theoretically and this is one I
will say if people want to call me out
and say that the thing that I prescribe
is not going to elongate their life
enough fair enough I won't know until
the end of it we are being lied to that
this is complicated you are absolutely
right and I it's such a simple point
that you just made that I I think we can
almost gloss over that because it's just
like eat healthy sleep
it's the most profound and important
point in America we should like abolish
nutrition research in this country
and give them the list you just said and
try to make public policy around that
simple list but how do you convince
people because to your own Point follow
the science we don't need studies right
it's it's this whip saw of like people
look at the data but you've got people
funding studies to make sure that the
data is Muddy so it's like you and I
both look at certain studies and we go I
have a lot of faith in this study right
but the only thing that the thing that
makes me so arrogant in my Approach is
that I've done it in my own life and so
you can tell me whatever you want about
how I should eat and I just know I used
to be 60 pounds heavier and I'm not now
and I've maintained that for years and
years I if I go like over the holidays I
let loose I eat all the foods that are
going to kill me right it's wonderful
and I really enjoy it for a short period
of time and I put on fat during that
time and I know I have no stress about
it because I know exactly how to lose
that fat
so a lot of the folks that have come on
this show
um and you talked about kind of
complicate the issue is it is it
carnivore or is it vegan should I be
doing hit exercises should I be doing
zone two should I be
the folks that have been at this
microphone have changed my life and and
brought me on this on this path
um I just want to say that I also want
to say that there are incentives I think
among influencers and among researchers
and really among everyone to complicate
the issue
um I think we are being systematically
gas lit by the incentives on every level
uh to think that this is complicated I
take a little bit of objection to some
of the folks with all these protocols
for exercise you know there's there's
heated debate there's tweets that go
viral uh just just slamming you know um
certain exercise mindsets they're saying
you're doing too many hit exercises high
intensity interval training is bad uh
saying that you have to be doing you
know these resistant exercises you know
litigating and slamming the other side I
just have this message I I think we're
losing the plot a little bit here
if you commit to 150 minutes of getting
your heart rate up a week
that is 99 of it
um I don't think there's an epidemic of
people that are committing to 150
minutes a week who are who are not
achieving like right their health goals
or not seeing Improvement I just
personally speaking you know with my mom
dying with me being on this Mission with
a new son in the world worried about him
trying to improve my personal habits I
got very In The Weeds on all the
protocols and then I just committed that
150 minutes and then I became more
Curious and now I research and I are
eating Whole Foods right
this is the list I think it's very much
what you said but it's the Unholy
Trinity if you scan your label and don't
eat seed oils soybean canola sunflower
seed oils which were created in 1910 by
John Rockefeller as an industrial
byproduct of oil production
our body is not biologically created to
eat this is a new substance in our diet
now one of the top sources of American
fats if you cut seed oils if you've got
highly processed grains as I talked
about earlier the processing takes the
fiber off and if you cut added sugar
which is up 100x in 100 years if you
scan your label for those three things
you are 80 there because you'll be
pushed to a largely whole food diet
there's sub so again start with that but
there's some things you're talking meat
or vegetables try to have not ones that
are fresh without a bunch of pesticides
that are organic that are pasture raised
you know we can go deeper into that but
if you cut those three ingredients seed
oils highly processed grain sugar
and this is where I think it gets a
little bit like I think people is it
really that simple yet yes if we geared
not just nutrition policy if we geared
economic and health policy in America
to eliminating or reducing those three
ingredients the amount of human capital
in this country that would be unleashed
the amount of increased fertility the
amount of countries economic
productivity the decrease in depression
it it's unfathomable what would happen
and it really is that simple of
attacking and and I'm not even talking
about bands yet we subsidize hands bands
like you know I'm not even arguing yet
to to ban anything we subsidize those
ingredients over a hundred billion
dollars a year not just food stamps
which is 115 billion dollar program
seventy percent of it goes to ultra
processed foods which is basically those
three ingredients 75 70 to 75 of food
stamps also school lunches federally
subsidized school lunches one of the top
sources of nutrition for children
there's no sugar limit in those lunches
Michelle Obama tried she ended up being
co-opted by the food industry ended up
talking a lot about exercise which is
what the food company pushes people to
do
it in the world but just make sure you
work out that's why I was pushing back
on the 150 hours saying like if you're
not eating whole food already like
exercises oh no it's a stack ranked it's
a stat it's stack ranked you have to get
food right and when I say food-borne
illnesses just to be clear food is
number one but it's it's metabolic-born
illnesses so so let's just be very clear
those ingredients then what should we
put in what should we put into our
bodies I think if you cut those
ingredients you're well on your way but
think about the micronutrients think
about the fiber think about those
Omega-3s you talked about not taking
supplements if you and this is where I
think we're the spiritual element comes
in why aren't we trained in school why
aren't we talking about this amazing
like hunt for elements that help
ourselves in our food why isn't any
curiosity I think it is so fascinating
it's taken me to like you know later in
life to really but it's so interesting
right how what omega-3 versus omega-6
says how you know the for for the all of
human evolution we were you know
predominantly Omega-3s and now we're
like 20 to 1 omega-6s these inflammatory
oils found in processed foods it's
totally totally screwing over ourselves
like nobody doctors don't even know that
doctors don't even know these things but
but get on a journey once you cut those
three ingredients get on a journey of
hunting for the micronutrients the fiber
the antioxidants the Omega-3s and then
you can find those in a vegan diet or a
carnivore diet or whatever I actually
would argue you know that the big
carnivore influencers who who are good
and the vegan influencers they're
they've got a niche right they're
slamming the other side but they're
essentially arguing the same thing it's
to get back to basics it's to get back
to hunting for the micronutrients you
know that we're buying logically need so
that's the most important thing I would
say on exercise there's a lot of people
and again go deep a lot of the
influencers come on I learn a lot from
them as I'm on this journey but I'm
telling you you will not be misled if
you do anything to get your heart rate
you know above a zone two or above for
150 minutes a week and stay consistent
on that is that for you though after you
get the food right or is that more
important you have to get the food right
so you've got if you like my son
like like it is child abuse to give a
child added sugar my and I know it's
very normalized I know you know we all
go to the birthday parties and
especially for an infant
um you know zero to one to two three I'd
say I'd say well into the child's life
if we have any control of their food I
believe it's child abuse
um Sugar by would you let so your son's
seven no no no no he's one well when he
is seven and he's at a birthday party
would you let him have a cupcake or a
piece of cake
what I would what I'm trying to do so so
I would not be punitive because I think
that leads you know that that can lead
to a lot of issues too right and and a
child does need to learn how to make
their own decisions what I would try to
do and I think what we should do for
every child is training them from the
early stage possible how dopamine runs
our life
how for an adult really we are rats in a
cage going from dopamine head to
dopamine head we wake up we check our
phones then we grab the coffee you know
most huge portion of the internet
bandwidth it's porn you know we watch
Tick Tock we watch the TVs we grab
alcohol after work even at work we have
all these Enterprise applications like
slack that are just triggering our
dopamine we literally are just mice in a
cage running from dopamine head to
dopamine head and I think where we've
been wronged and gaslighted a bit is
that food has been normalized and we
don't put it in that box what's happened
is there's highly addictive drugs and
highly harmful drugs in our food you
know if you actually want to just take a
scientific approach to analyzing the
negative impacts of drugs sugar would be
at the top of the list sugar would be
above heroines methamphetamines any
other drug if you attribute the deaths
to Sugar versus any other drug it dwarfs
it you know the fact that it doesn't you
know immediately make you high like an
opioid right away it's actually makes it
more dangerous it's more nefarious but
it's highly addictive if you do brain
scans which they've done of the dopamine
receptors in your brain with sugar
versus opioids it triggers the exact
same parts of the brain Mark Hyman's
talked a lot about this yeah so I just
want to know if I can have a piece of
cake at this
I I did a huge goal to train to to to
talk to my kid about the journey I've
been on about um about
being destroyed you're not gonna have a
hard and fast you will
you maybe haven't thought through it I
can tell this is like I'm not sure what
to do with little Timmy
um I think that when you are a control
of your child's diet I do think it is
wrong for that for sugar to touch their
mouth wow so really hardcore no no but
but but but but but but you're in charge
of your child's diet I think very early
on I don't I don't think you're fully in
charge of them at seven right I I my
hope would be to train them about use
this as an opportunity to talk about how
Society has been so wrong on things that
are very normalized about how Society
used to say smoking is fine at Dr
smoking offices I mean that would be my
hope I also think that you know if you
go down the list chronic stress
management and um
and people feeling you know independent
and making their decisions is also
extremely important so the Tactical
implementation but I think it's tough
but I do think we need a mindset shift
on how we train kids and absolutely with
babies I mean you're starting your kid
off really far ahead
um if you have a metabolically
functional environment for the first
couple years I mean the degree of drugs
and food that we're giving children
right now really do you know set them
back it's damaging the microbiome I
really do think there's a lot of
evidence and just common sense
um you know that sleep habits that
movement habits that you know food
habits when you are in full control you
know from zero one two really have a
huge impact so I think you are setting
your kid up for a lot of success there
and then for older kids I think it's
talking about this stuff I think it's I
think drugs and dopamine run our lives
and the fact that that's been weaponized
into the food that we need to survive I
think it's a huge problem all right so I
want to go back to subsidies so
we've got our seven-year-old kid it's
tough
um you know there's things at the
birthday party that they're going to
want that aren't good for them this was
the whole idea behind Quest We want to
make food that people could choose based
on taste and having to be good for them
but one of the the side effects that
actually one of the things that ended up
making that company possible was a
knock-on effect of high fructose corn
syrup so when we first tried to make our
bar we went to a co-manufacturer they
said this can't be made
we were like why not and they're like
the texture of it is just not going to
run through the equipment why don't you
add some high fructose corn syrup and we
couldn't understand that was everybody's
response and we're like we get it from
like a shelf stability standpoint we get
even get it from a taste standpoint but
why can't you manufacture it and what we
ended up realizing is that for 70-ish
years the Machinery that was being
manufactured had been developed in
lockstep with the use of high fructose
corn syrup which gives everything a very
particular
um viscosity and so when it goes through
a machine if it doesn't have that in it
it just doesn't run properly and so it
was like nobody thought about that
you're just all the things that this
machine has to make all have this high
fructose corn syrup which for people
that don't know it comes in almost like
a syrup form and so you put it into the
whatever product and it gives it like a
lot of pliability and once we stripped
it out even though we also had our syrup
but ours was a fiber it just didn't have
the same properties and so we ended up
having to engineer our own equipment
which is pretty insane but ends up being
one of the reasons that the company is
able to explode so anyway bring this all
back to subsidies so it's like what we
were trying to do is say hey we're going
to do that painful work of negotiating
with the Almond Growers and all this
stuff to try to make something that is
of reasonable cost that you don't have
to deal with we'll figure out the
Machinery all that stuff and we can just
deliver a bar that is metabolically
advantageous
so from a subsidy standpoint how do we
change the incentives so that healthy
eating can happen accidentally but is
also still delicious
this is my simple message I think we've
been lied to on policy as well that it's
complicated we need to stop recommending
poison and stop subsidizing poison and
then the free market will figure it out
if so just make high fructose corn syrup
costs what it costs stop recommending it
stop subsidizing it right now the USDA
which sets the nutrition guidelines for
Americans the guidelines what what what
our government tells us is that a child
that's two years old and up
can have 10 percent of their diet added
sugar 10 percent of their diet just for
saying it what's that it makes me want
to bite you that you're saying that like
that's so crazy this is I just want to
because it goes again I I I hear these
things before and I guess kind of the
government says for us a child two years
and up to eat 10 added sugar and the
amount of lobbying that going into that
and malfeasance that I saw is astounding
the key thing to understand with that
USDA guideline the key thing to
understand with most medical decisions
is that the USDA the FDA when they
approve drugs or the NIH when they give
guidelines like on for opioids and now
for osembic it's not government
bureaucrats
that are at the government making that
determination they're outside panels so
the way food companies better or worse I
think it's worse because there's no
conflicts of interest with who can go on
those panels so 95
of the experts on the USDA nutrition
guidelines committee received personal
payments from food and or Pharma
companies wow fit doctor Fatima Stanford
who we talked about who's the Olympic
show from Harvard you can't even make
this up was just appointed at the 2025
committee to make the nutrition
guidelines wow the same person who says
that obesity isn't tied to food or
exercise so so that's the level of
corruption and then of course it's just
a revolving door with all these agencies
you know the classic case with the chair
of the FDA Gottlieb just you know went
straight to be the board of Pfizer so
it's just like a total revolving door
where there's no restrictions on not
only research grants which is the
lifeblood of these academics industry
but personal Consulting payments from
processed food companies so if there's
like like we say oh it's it's
complicated oh patients don't want to do
this we have the United States
government
saying 10 percent
added sugar didn't they somebody the
food Compass says like
um
Lucky Charms are better three times
better than eggs or something like that
yeah I think sometimes we think that
this is a thing of the past you know we
know about the food pyramid the 90s
where some corrupt research from the
sugar research Council said we should be
eating more sugar more carbs less
healthy fats
um this is still happening so not only
do you have the guidelines bought off
you have the preeminent nutrition study
today
today is the food Compass so this is
very classic it's millions of dollars
directly from the NIH Tufts nutrition
school which is one of the preeminent
nutrition schools
and also millions of dollars from
processed food companies they go into
the same study this study comes out on
the press release it says the purpose of
the study is to impact childhood
nutrition uh marketing guidelines point
of study
and it says that over three dozen name
brand cereals
including Lucky Charms Honey Nut
Cheerios on down
three dozen are recommended
uh multiple's more than eggs which are
discouraged and beef which is
discouraged now this is funny if it
wasn't tragic that the food companies
think about this right
the the maker of that study the dean of
Tufts nutrition school he actually
called me very angry
um it was actually I'm like geez you
don't have a lot to do you're my partner
and I my my new company were were
working to expose the stuff and change
it uh but it's just so ridiculous and
people hadn't talked about the study so
what we put out went pretty viral Joe
Rogan tweeted about her or Instagram did
and um Fox News started covering it and
he called me he couldn't even make this
up he called me from Davos like fuming
he's like emails but you need to pick up
my call calls me and he said that the
food funding is the lifeblood of
nutrition schools and that just is what
it is and I asked him because I did some
research I said well you've received
personal payments not just research
payment personal payments from almost
every processed food company you can
imagine and another direct to consumer
issuer of ozympic he is receiving
payments Consulting payments from an
ozympic prescriber one of these
companies that's Mass advertising in
Tick Tock ads ozympic to millennials
that's who's paying him that's who's
paying for his you know Vacation House
in Massachusetts and I asked him just
point blank I think what everyone would
want to ask him does that impact your
decision making he's like of course not
we have a disclaimer in the study
the truth is hitting your career goals
is not easy you have to be willing to go
the extra mile to stand out and do hard
things better than anybody else but
there are 10 steps I want to take you
through that will 100x your efficiency
so you can crush your goals and get back
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dominate and you can download it for
free by clicking the link in today's
description all right my friend back to
today's episode you know the big process
food company that evens funded the food
Compass was the known like you know they
don't you know they did take cereal
money but it's like you know the no
makes almond milk I pull up the study
milk and dairy chocolate almond milk is
the highest rated Dairy rated by the NIH
Tufts food Compass it's higher rated
than grass-fed Greek yogurt chocolate
almond milk made by Danone they're the
number one maker of that so so you know
it's just aggressive defense of asking
us to believe which just manifestly not
true and and he also said you know we
had some cereals lower rated but the
fact that Cheerios is rated higher than
quinoa in that study and Honey Nut she's
like Honey Nut sharers was rated lower
it's like yeah but cheers is rated high
and they take that study and I used to
do this you take that study and you go
to the school boards you go to the you
know food stamp this is a lot a
lobbyists are in the office I'm hearing
from members of Congress every day with
these confusing studies there there's
been 50 000 nutrition studies conducted
in just the past three years according
to PubMed and the express goal of these
studies is to confuse is to confuse so
what I would say is that just getting
back to the policy is we need to just be
simple in our recommendations and have
some moral courage if the head of the
NIH you know the head of the USDA the
dean of Stanford Medical school Harvard
Med School Tufts nutrition school if
they had a press conference tomorrow on
the steps of Congress and said it is an
urgent National priority to limit sugar
among children specifically
and stop recommending this and we need
to make the USDA nutrition guidelines
say zero sugar immediately we don't want
to ban it but we don't recommend alcohol
for children we don't say 10 alcohol we
don't see say 10 cigarettes the only
difference between what's sugar and
cigarettes is that what sugar is doing
to kids is unorder magnitude worse
it literally
I'm not saying they should take it but
like like there's nothing worse that we
can give kids to ensure that they have
more metabolic disorders more depression
than sugar I mean it is a violent
substance going back to that word and I
just think again we have been so wrong
so many times about things that were
normalized throughout American history
this is a big one if those leaders said
that tomorrow
it would it would it would it would be a
revolution Americans listen to Medical
leaders we actually adhered to the food
pyramid
um right we dramatically changed our
diet in the 90s which is a disaster in
the 1980s when the Surgeon General said
smoking's bad way too late decades too
late
uh because of culture similar cultural
and economic reasons smoking rates
plummeted
and when Dr fauci said to get the
vaccine I think it's like 90 plus of
Americans got at least one vaccine so so
For Better or Worse we listen to Medical
leaders at those child's birthday party
right if Dr fauci and all the other
medical leaders say sugar is poison it
should be zero percent at that birthday
party you it would be more taboo to give
every child sugar like they're a bunch
of meth heads right now those parents
who are giving all this sugar to the
three-year-olds and all the children are
running around like crazy people that's
what the government's recommending like
it's literally they're falling so don't
recommend things and this is simple this
is simple the second thing is the
government should stop subsidizing as I
mentioned through food stamps through
crop subsidies
point four percent of crop studies go to
fruit or vegetables point four percent
yeah that's great 90 percent go to wheat
corn soy uh you know corn is obviously
turned into high corn syrup and those
are the Staples of processed food from
the 1970s
um let's just look for ways to stop
subsidizing it has anybody looked at
what that does to the the availability
of just enough calories to feed a family
for people that are on snaps
well snap is Coke lobbies for SNAP to be
lowly funded too
there's Express lobbying from processed
food companies to keep the snap
contributions low so people can only
afford processed food that's what you're
asking no that wasn't what I was asking
but that's even weirder so what I'm
saying is let's say that so if we remove
subsidies from the grains and stuff
going back to my early early like uh
Devil's Advocate like what if they're
really just trying to make cheap uh
cheap calories available because
honestly even I I really want people to
be healthy and I want them to eat whole
food but I would much rather people have
Coke and terrible things and be alive
then these calories just not be
available and they're starving to death
now I have no idea that that could be so
fake and it's not even an issue and it'd
be so easy to get them chicken breast
and and carrots whatever but I haven't
looked at it so that would be the one
thing I would say like has anybody
looked is there anything that is it
doesn't even have to be hyper palatable
but is there anything palatable that we
could make available on Snap so that
when we get rid we say no more subsidies
that lead to Coke in the first place and
then uh even if people are going to keep
making Coke don't let it be purchasable
with snaps what do they eat then yeah
I'm good I hate to do this but I'm gonna
dispute a little bit of your premises I
literally have no idea um so
I you know I I come from a Libertarian
you know early my career work for
Republicans right I free markets and
individual choice is really important to
me what we have right now is a total
Corruption of the system you know where
we have 115 billion dollar government
program in the case of food stamps right
Lobby to basically uh subsidize and pay
for poison which then costs trillions of
dollars of Downstream Health impacts
um so if you change that that's not
that's not messing with the market
that's correct in the market if you said
for a government nutrition program it
needs to be even cutting out those three
ingredients even saying it needs to be
Whole Foods that or or packaged foods
that don't include seed oil sugar or
highly questions if you did that
tomorrow tomorrow like tomorrow you'd
have Amazon and all these companies and
quite you know there'd be Quest products
like like you you know if there's 115
billion dollar pot of money and the
rules change right now everyone's
flooding in to accomplish rules now when
you go into a literally 100 Coca-Cola
instructs all the supermarkets to do
special campaigns around the days that
that funding comes into the account and
a Coca-Cola is front and center and
actually cheaper at a supermarket often
than water because there's so many
subsidized ingredients in that wow so
everyone's playing by the rigged rules
of the game but I do think it's a
totally false choice right in Sweden
there's a huge emphasis for lower income
programs you know to encourage Whole
Foods farmers market and there's farmers
markets in lower cam areas because
that's where the money is so so so we
talk about the tissue of food deserts
it's kind of this perversion of the
thing the NAACP plays into this they're
like well you know these folks need coke
and they need processed food because
there's food deserts no there's food
deserts because of the corrupt policies
that you were being paid to promote
Amazon and all these Innovative
companies would be in these places
tomorrow if there were economic
incentives to be there so we have a a
rig Market on on the money thing I do
also dispute that that this is like too
expensive what's hard right now is again
that Healthcare is the largest and the
fastest growing industry in the United
States producing worse outcomes you know
in our in our Industries you know
Innovation is better prices you know
better service it's the opposite and
it's the largest industry in the country
um so what's happening you know is these
and I think conservatives actually are
starting to understand this you know the
left I think it's a bipartisanship of
our time but we are like writing a check
for our bankruptcy I mean like the
amount of
budgetary Devastation that we are
embedding with a 30 percent childhood
pre-diabetes rate I mean to just just
just just think about how much of a gold
mine a diabetic child is for the
healthcare system oh God it's a gold
mine that's what's that's that it's the
greatest thing possible and we're
creating more of them through the
incentives of the system but but what's
what's so great about a diabetic child
for the system out of context which let
me tell you what's so great about a
diabetic child It is Well diabetic
children are both the greatest economic
gift to the largest industry in the
country and what's going to see I think
the collapse of the United States
because of the budgetary because the the
the the amazing thing economically about
a diabetic child is they don't die
but they have growing comorbidities so
the second that child enters the system
they are told by the American Diabetes
Association which is funded by diabetes
drug makers and food companies
that this is a lifetime non-reversible
condition but that really winds me up
when people say that yeah diabetes is
completely reversible diabetes there's
nothing medically significant about the
blood sugar level of diabetes it's an
arbitrary marker of blood sugar
there's nothing scientifically like
you've crossed the Rubicon when you have
diabetes or pre-diabetes right it's
completely under our control and
completely reversible through food if
you do your simple program of you know
moving and and eating Whole Foods like
every other animal in the wild is able
to do you can reverse metabolic
dysfunction reverse diabetes but so
let's just think about that child that
child enters the system
and they're if they're lower income
they're on Medicaid
so that child then is told this is
Lifetime conditions and then when you
have diabetes you're just racking on the
comorbidities so that that child is
definitely if it's a woman gonna have
PCOS PCOS which is the leading cause of
female infertility is insulin resistance
it literally is a type it's like a phase
of diabetes it's it's not like caused or
related to diabetes like insulin
resistance
um PCOS is the same thing and now 25 of
women have PCOS which is skyrocketing
male sperm count is plummeting which is
highly metabolically related
um that child is going to obviously deal
with obesity most likely depression be
on an SSRI like 25 of adult women in the
United States are on an antidepressant
so so that that that child as they grow
and are told these are just things to
manage is just going to rack up all
these comorbidities and just be a gold
mine and that sounds very morbid but
like that is how it works and
and uh it's tragic
men they say Don't Kill the Messenger
but good lord your message is God awful
this is It's funny because I've been in
this space for a long time but this is
really like hearing it like this I've
heard people rail like you gotta get the
money out of politics I never really
understood what they meant but this is I
thought they meant campaign donations
but now I'm realizing that this is a far
more gnarly setup all the food industry
spends 11 times more nutrition research
than the NIH and the NIH itself is able
to you know obviously give to it's
basically a grant make organization that
gives to folks with conflicts of
interest
um so it's it's rigging institutions of
trust it's it's as we talked about
rigging the research institutions do you
really see a way out of this because
this is now you
what because if if all the incentives
are there and people are throwing money
you would have to you'd have to get the
money out of big food
I'm a little bit upset your your
feelings uh despondent this is an
optimistic message there are not
podcasts like this in China where you
know folks are ranting against the
incentives of the largest Industries in
the country you know in the the leading
books the leading podcast people are
waking up and I do think one of the
strengths of our system in America is
that we are able to robustly debate and
make course Corrections and what does
give me hope uh from the bottoms up I do
think people want to be healthy want to
be at their kids weddings want to see
their grandchildren uh want their kids
to be healthy so I think there's a lot
of education and my message my
contribution to this debate
is that when it comes to Chronic
conditions preventing them for
specifically you know for you or your
children you should listen to the
medical system but you should not trust
it you should trust yourself and how do
I listen to the system and not trust it
at the same time
you can listen to what the American
Academy
Pediatrics says to feed your children
and then read a book by Mark Hyman
and do the opposite you can
um you know this is the optimistic part
of the pitch no it is optimistic in
order to be empowered in order to be
empowered yeah we need to have a
baseline of what's Happening a a
knowledge about the game we're playing
in is required for empowerment people
people can do their own thing that that
is all I hear the system though is going
to eat a huge percentage of the people
from from the top down this is I this is
how I see it this is the biggest
existential threat we have to America we
are truly becoming a fat infertile sick
depressed population an increasing rate
like if you've seen the movie Wally
we're truly like becoming that also
divided everything's political this will
kill but what gives me hope from a
top-down perspective is things that are
unsustainable by definition have to stop
eventually yeah but in how much pain and
agony
we generally get to the right answer
late but we do get to the right answer
and I do think it's a strength of our
system I think we have completely lost
our way there's been a complete lapse of
moral courage from leaders but let's
just even take what I was talking about
earlier how the medical Miracles were
all pre-1960 acute you know we did
achieve great things in the medical
system we have double life expectancy
through I think these acute Innovations
we've lost our way with these management
of chronic conditions this addiction to
that the recurring Revenue which our
system is addicted to now we're
aggressively calling it out right now
um it's mathematically unsustainable
because the more we spend the worse
things get and we're going to go
bankrupt so
it has to be a Bottoms Up Revolution I
mean I actually do get hope
um that the most popular pieces of
content are about this that there's an
Awakening my message is the system is
rigged you should trust yourself and
it's simple it is simple cut those three
ingredients move see what happens it's
simple like don't be gaslighted that
this is complicated I've seen the
efforts inside the system to try to
convince you of that and it's just not
true this is dead simple that is my
message
um and if more and more people can wake
up
um the system changes to drop down and
I'll just say lastly you need a system
changes I'll give this example I was
meeting with a member of Congress and
asked them about money and the money's
huge the farm industry spends five times
more on uh lobbying and public affairs
worked in the oil industry three times
more than any other industry it's just
huge there and there's three times three
three Pharma lobbies for every member of
Congress would you say that again
there's three Pharma lobbies for every
member of Congress
so it it's significant yeah
what he told me is that the only thing
more powerful than money is Grassroots
support is voters caring about an issue
and that's why abortion and that's why
um gun control things that are very
targeted people are very passionate
about
and what he said and what I do see is
that people are being channeled and
becoming very passionate about the fact
that there is violence according to kids
I I really do think and it's it's a
tried and true political Dynamic but
kids are under threat right now like you
go into a kid's classroom you see the
developmental issues you see the Obesity
you see the metabolic conditions like
this when you think about a voter when
you think about a voter and what they
care about this is channeling a lot of
attention and rage and more and more
people are talking about this at
meetings and calling and these members
of Congress also have kids and they
basically are somewhat gaslighted and
they're not really controlling anything
and kind of in the system as created by
the interest but the Grassroots support
is growing and one thing I'm trying to
do is um is channel that and and I and I
would say the more you can make your
voice known that this rigged system is
an issue
um the more effective and and we're
working working with some folks on on
channeling that attention but but if
there is a Grassroots Uprising to
protect kids and reverse these Trends
we're seeing um that that will also help
how dare you Cali insinuate that my
morbidly obese child with type 2
diabetes is not perfect uh that's body
shaming and I you should be fired
defunded uh you should any sponsorships
you ever get any likes on Twitter I'm
going after all those people what say
you to body positivity
I think it's the exact same tactics that
I saw 10 years ago when I was working
for these companies I I think that the
average American
who's overweight wants to be less
overweight they want to be healthy I
think we've been sold this bill of lies
that you can cater to uh I think that's
true I think that's the secret
I really do believe everybody would feel
better
about themselves and would just feel
better like my joints don't hurt if they
lost weight but that is not the rhetoric
the rhetoric is from from some
percentage maybe it's one percent maybe
it's 99 but there is violent rhetoric
about body positivity not shaming people
for being overweight Etc et cetera if I
want to trigger people all I have to do
is start talking about weight loss let's
go back to the framework of rigging
institutions of trust
the LA Unified School District the
largest school district in the country
recently posted on their Instagram
account a video from a body influential
body positive influencer and the video
said it is racist to stigmatize any food
that the only reason you should
criticize a donut is if the donut has
mold on it and that it is a result of
long-standing Oppression for us to be
judging what people you cannot make this
up I post about this on Twitter
so so that video was paid for
by Nestle that that that that they
funneled money to that body positive
um influencer and it's come out that
food companies are funneling millions of
dollars to influencers particularly on
Tick Tock to make this argument that any
talk of food is fat streaming and
there's also been a movement so you
don't think it's real you think it's
just being incentivized the debate is
being weaponized like where is that
information where is this information
coming from like where are these ideas
now that it's racist for a doctor to
weigh a patient which is now a thing
doctors aren't weighing it to race this
is the Playbook there are there are
viral Tech talk videos
that are the influencer are funded by
food companies this has come out that
are that are systematically arguing that
it's racist to weigh patients but why I
don't understand the title race so
you should watch this video that the LA
unified but they tie the fact that
um communities of color are uh have
higher rates of obesity got it as they
make that connection stay at a rate if
everybody's weighed is it the Judgment
against being
heavy like if people were saying the
Judgment against being obese is racist
then at least okay if it's
disproportionate the people of color are
obese then okay I at least under I
obviously think it's insane but I
understand there's a direct connection
to be made but just I don't know I don't
want to get lost
the the healthy at any size movement
is absolutely weaponized that do you
think that the argument was there and
then it got co-opted because that that's
my impulse like I've talked to enough
people directly people that I know and
love and it's not somebody from the
outside influencing them it's that they
are deeply insecure about it and so when
you bring it up it brings this wave of
Shame and so it makes them want to push
back and so there are very few things
that are more triggering than your body
is less valuable than another body I I
think humans have an algorithm that runs
inside their brain given to us by
Evolution that makes you deeply
concerned about how your body is
perceived and so the second regardless
of color the second that you make
somebody feel like your body is inferior
to somebody else's you are in for an
emotional backlash I want to take it two
levels real quick one is absolutely this
idea that's being propagated from the
top down that you could be healthy any
size which is a lie and kind of the the
pitchforks around anyone saying that
being obese is probably not good for
health there's a systematic effort that
is being orchestrated very
systematically just like the donations
to the NAACP just like you know
um paying researchers when I was working
for food companies or opioid researchers
to say opioids you know we should relax
the standards it's a similar Playbook to
make the debate toxic and basically shut
down debate about this issue which helps
from an individual standpoint of people
you know people we know being very
sensitive to this issue
I think it's because I actually feel for
them this system has been rigged against
them I think saying anything about it
being their fault again I'm a free
market individual liberty guy but the
fact that 80 of adults now are
overweight are obese there's clearly
something systematic happening so I
think there actually is rightful uh
apprehension
um from folks that are overweight
feeling blamed and my messages I really
actually I've evolved on this it's not
their fault like I actually think this
is hopefully one thing that's resonating
about what we're talking about is that
you're being told and I think it
actually is some nefarious interests
um uh of rigged institutions saying it's
your fault that it's you being lazy
humans haven't gotten systematic laser
in the past 40 years when all these
things have skyrocketed so I think
actually this is why I hope this
discussion is a little bit empowering
actually just embracing the Baseline
that it's actually not your fault and
you actually should should be a little
bit upset of any type of blaming because
the system is basically screwed you
through four trillion dollars of the
Health Care system that makes money when
more people are sick and then the six
trillion dollar food industry that's
making people sick so there's a lot of
things slanted against you my message is
let's Embrace that right and I think
embracing that is even a little bit of
road to empowerment it's not your fault
but you have to take actions as an
individual to fight against these
interests that are against you and I
think eventually we need to channel
attention as a country to this
existential issue so yeah that's where I
see the frustration I I think people
don't like to be blamed or don't like to
be told they're lazy because I really
think they're they're not I think where
I draw the line is we need to talk very
clinically without blaming people that
obesity is the result of a metabolic
disaster and not obfuscate what it is I
think a big problem with how we talk
about obesity too is actually uh
delineating is the problem in and of
itself to solve obesity is a is a
symptom of the tree it's a branch of the
tree you know but it's one of many
branches right
diabetes and heart this is the branch of
the metabolic dysfunction right right
and and we're trying actually to be told
systematically right now that it's it
it's it's one condition siled to cure
with a specific pill it's actually it's
actually just one symptom
um it's not in and of itself the problem
it's just a visual symptom it's actually
potentially one of the better symptoms
um metabox function insulin resistance
some people's fat cells actually are
insulin resistant themselves and they
they don't really uh gain a lot of
weight but then you can get fatty liver
disease you can get invisible so so that
that's what I'd say it's just like to
your friends and to people that are
sensitive it's it's not their fault
um I really do think this system is
rigged against them
I agree I think this system is rigged
against them I have a weird relationship
with the phrase fault it's all your
fault that's one of my favorite things
that I like to remind myself because it
puts me in the driver's seat and I can
do something about it and if I look at
it and I'm like I'm a victim of the
system well then I'm stuck and I
actually do God this is going to be
horrible because trust me I started the
show because I have so much love for
people and I want to help people and I
really really do believe that people are
victimized by by a lot of stuff but you
can't allow yourself to be a victim so
it's like you've got to find your way
out and I say that as somebody who loves
and cares about you and wants to see
good things for you but it's like you
are gonna have to fight the system is no
one's coming to save you and once you
understand that nobody's coming to save
you not even Kelly who's going to do his
best and Lobby the government and get
all this stuff turned around but it's
like if you act as if nobody's coming to
save you you take ownership of this
stuff and you make change dude what you
can do with your life is extraordinary
but you said something earlier that we
haven't gotten lazier I think we have
gotten lazier because if you break
somebody's metabolic Machinery they they
cannot help but get lazy A and B I do
think that as an Empire declines at the
risk of derailing this entire
conversation
that Elon Musk said this really well he
was like I have factories in China and I
have factories here and he's like man
when I look at how people work in China
it is insane like these guys work hard
now you can judge that and say that's
ridiculous and they're wasting their
life and they're working too hard and
that's just bad and we should never
aspire to that okay fair enough but
they're like it's gonna be tough
being more chill being more relaxed to
out compete people that are going hard
and the reality is the world is one big
competition I understand we don't want
it to be but the reality is that it is
and so people are
from from a world economic power
perspective China has come out of
nowhere and not nowhere but like very
rapidly they have caught up and look
like they're going to surpass us and I
think people think that that has no
consequences that we'll have
consequences and if the the thing that
we all say is it's not your fault you're
not to blame for anything like fill in
the blank for your weight for uh your
depression for your anxiety and again
I'm with you man like the food system is
messing them up and it's like I'm I'm
totally cool I don't I don't need to
cling on to the word it's your fault
fine it's not your fault you're here but
now it the only one that's going to
drive you to fulfillment to love to
satisfaction Joy power uh accomplishment
is you and if you can buckle into that
seat like with with excitement of like
oh man cool hey it's really I'm super
upset that all the weird your decisions
and subsidies and all that have ended me
here where my mom had gestational
diabetes while she had my mom smoked and
I'm still I'm just convinced that I
would be far Smarter with a better
memory if my mom had smoke during
pregnancy but the reality is she did
and she grew up in a time where it's
like smoking is good for you and so I
can be annoyed about that or I can
buckle in and say I have the hand that I
was dealt it is what it is and now it
becomes a question of what do I do with
it how do I play this hand and so I am
just beseeching people it's like it you
can change you can make any change you
want none of us get to be as cool as we
want to be I want to be more uh I want
to be a more talented entrepreneur than
Elon Musk the odds are stacked against
me he is very far ahead of me and
pulling farther ahead by the day but I
can 100x my abilities is is how I look
at it and so I don't want people to to
I I don't want people to beat themselves
up I want them to find self-love and I
think that's very important but I want
to be very clear that you can only find
self-love by doing the things you think
are worthy of respect and if you don't
decide what you think is worthy of
respect and then do those things you
will never earn your respect you will
never love yourself you cannot stare in
a mirror and say I love myself I love
myself I love myself and so we get to
the point where people are obese they
are being a little lazy and even though
they have the deck is stacked against
them bad things have happened to them
that are that are not their fault but
like focusing on the it's not my fault
part instead of the I can do something
about it is where I think we lose people
here here's what I worry about just to
add to that
is the empowering message I'm trying to
give is you do have a lot of control and
to not defer to the system I think the
problem in America as we talked about a
little bit earlier is that you've got to
defer to to institutions in something
you can't like think I I'm like an
average person could just question
everything right but the systems
themselves it's like you know what what
basically is happening right now with
health is Americans are following the
incentives as laid out I mean we
subsidize and encourage terrible food
and then Healthcare only kicks in once
you're sick to manage the condition
which makes everyone money is recurring
Revenue
um so it's not like you're screwed or
don't have agency I think it's like I do
think like it is you know if you take
polls at Gallup of different
institutions like people still trust
like the doctors in the medical system
and you know it's just like it's
actually like an empowering message of
like you really can take it in your own
hands I mean when I think about now with
with my son and with my eating and my
habits you know I was never great at
exercise but I almost see it as like
this this this uh action against the
system a subversive action I actually
think exercise is [ __ ] like exercise
never needed to happen we didn't have
like gyms until like a couple decades
ago right these used to all be part of
normal life we used to be out in the
cold they didn't need cold plunging we
need we used to just move you know for
our lives right and we used to just like
didn't weren't sedentary and kids you
know would be moving and
um the exercise food natural food used
to be an important thing we used to be
outside you know getting the sun on our
skin like all of these like kind of tech
bro
um expensive habits and protocols that
we're talking about they're kind of
almost caricatured used to just be part
of our biological needs that we just got
from normal life so I actually do think
it's kind of BS that we have to like pay
extra and you know go to a jet we never
used to do that
um so I I've actually have like like
indignation about it like I I don't like
going to the gym
um but but it's like it's almost like
the subversive act it's almost like this
this price we have to pay uh for modern
society you know but you just go down
the list the air purifiers the water
filter like we spend so much money and a
lot of the folks on your part are just
talking about really extra money and
time to get back to our biological needs
that were never a problem I I just think
that's what I'm trying to advance
forward a little bit is like it's not
even all bad I mean I mean I enjoy
living in a city I enjoy you know having
electricity but our circadian rhythms
being totally screwed you know lights
are a very new invention you know our
body is biologically on a 24-hour cycle
because the sun the sun used to be
everything this is not pseudoscience or
French stuff I mean you know we were
going to sleep when the sun went down uh
and on a cycle so I I don't want lights
or or these things to go away but we
just need to understand
um that we've gone a little out of whack
and these industries have become so big
you know we've been gaslighted a little
bit so it's like it's like building that
Baseline of um of understanding I think
I think is important uh for empowerment
and another thing I just double click on
it's just like don't be convinced by
anyone that it's complicated
um uh you know just start moving
um just start
um just start you know being a little
bit more curious about food I I think
the average person in this country is
just beaten over the head not to be
curious
about about what they put in their body
you know we have this 75 Ultra processed
diet I mean even just getting on the
road to curiosity I think is a big step
up for you and your family and going on
some blog post readings I mean just it's
just a rabbit hole um that I think is a
matter of public policy we should be
encouraging people to be on uh but also
from the bottoms up I'm uh I I'm not a
policy guy I'm never inspired by that
um I think I think that it is very good
that some people are and I encourage
anybody that's listening to this if
you're a Rage Against the Machine
machine kind of person please go Rage
Against the Machine because this is all
crazy but I want to now talk about
Innovation so one thing we were talking
about before we started rolling is
what's going to be that next big
movement in food you were talking about
regenerative agriculture
um there's two parts of this that I want
to get into one just what is
regenerative agriculture and then as we
think about scaling what do you think
about
artificial so I guess not technically
artificial meat but meat cells grown in
a lab
so I believe regenerative agriculture is
one of the most important worldwide
trends of the next 10 to 20 years and
for people that don't know what it is
break it down for them
we have a monocropping system where
because of the subsidies crops are you
know we have fields of wheat fields of
corn they're all one we have industrial
pens you know and and crates for
um cows uh we do everything separately
um which is the result of a lot of the
agriculture incentives that's a new
phenomenon in the past 60 years that's
never how farming has been for for
history
um farming has been that there's been a
lot of experimentation where animals are
raised near the plants that the manure
helps you know fertilize the plants that
the complex ecosystem of everything
together actually provides a natural
pesticide
um that farmers were experimenters you
know to figure out what animals should
be near what plants and how all these
ecosystems meld together you know to
produce better output and to
um you know to basically uh almost
create natural pesticides we haven't had
artificial official pesticides until
very recently this is this was like
experimentation doctors doctors were
like scientists and we've totally gotten
away from that
um it's absolutely decimated our soil so
we actually need pesticides because
there's not such a complex ecosystem now
right we need pesticides and now as we
know right 90 of Americans if you test
their P have glyphosate in it
um you know we have thousands thousands
of chemicals in the United States right
now that are banned in Europe again I'm
kind of an American I don't like
complimenting Europe too much but this
is not a free market that we have
thousands of neurotoxins in our food
it's the result of a totally rigged
Market if you really go down the rabbit
hole of what is allowed to be sprayed
and put in our food it is a scandal
they're true neurotoxins this is the
result in Downstream of our industrial
farming which again started with good
intentions to reduce hunger and have
stay utilize food prices but is the
predominant way we Farm in America so
there's two movies I'd say the biggest
little farm and kiss the ground
unbelievable life-changing documentaries
on regenerative farming and what they
show and this is pretty pretty
indisputable that we have 40 crop Cycles
left is that 40 years uh about I I think
it's 40 years I think it's 40 harvests
left
um where our soil is becoming so
nutrient depleted with the mono cropping
and what is happening now is that a
tomato for instance in the United States
today
in key nutrients is 90 less than a
tomato grown 50 years ago it's it's
substantially less nutrients than a
tomato grown in like Sardinia uh Italy
which is one of the the blue zones
um so we actually right now our food is
becoming uh less nutrient dense and our
soil which is you know I used to think
these things were all hippie but this is
what this is this is like the the the
the life form that produces our food and
produces the nutrients that you know
transfer from the world into food into
our bodies it's it it's getting
decimated
so we have this problem right we have a
problem where we're all getting
metabolically dysfunctional where rates
of everything are going up uh because
our food is poison I believe and that's
a problem so you gotta ask how to solve
that problem
and some folks say well we need to
create fake meat you know we know about
the Beyond Burger I mean that's been
pretty much pretty much I think uh
delegitimized but there's also this
artificial I hope so I mean I mean
impossible Burgers is processed pea
protein smothered in canola oil
it's literally canola going back to seed
oil going to be deeply problematic yeah
it's also eight one not knowing that I
had canola oil until just now and it
spiked my blood sugar like ice cream
yeah it is if you look at the
ingredients it's it's processed lab
grown low quality protein smothered and
natural flavors
um and canola oil so this goes back to
what we're talking about with the
carnivore vegan look at the components
of food if a glass of water is here and
a glass of water with arsenic is here
you'd say that's bad you can separate
the arsenic in the in the water with
food we just we don't even think it's
individual components and
the Beyond Burger and possible Burger
frankenfood processed Meats smothered in
inflammatory oils and natural it's like
that's not what we're evolutionary
designed so I don't care if you're a
vegan or a carnivore that crap process
crap throw that out the window then you
get into what you talked about where
there's actually they're they're like
almost like a lab growing like meat
I'm not trying to be a
a Luddite here
but I think that the future is using
technology to get back to basics
I I don't think it's progress that we've
totally messed with birth now and have
close to 40 C-section rate that we are
you know lab growing food
um what I would prefer and what's
happening is as I said regenerative
agriculture and this they talk about
this in the documentaries I mentioned
action can produce the same or better
outputs crop outputs in terms of yield a
yield and they're a carbon sink because
everything's flowing together
um and it actually it actually the soil
actually brings the cows and and the
methane that brings it back into the
soil
and there's crazy productivity because
now what regenerative farmers are using
is they're using AI as I said they're
scientists because they can run a bunch
of different tests what food should be
grown next to each other right what what
animals support what crops they're
constantly right the biggest little farm
unbelievable documentary on Disney Plus
they're they're experimenters and you
can actually use technology to figure
out how to increase output through
regenerative farming
um so I like that use of Technology but
growing an artificial chicken in a lab
it just doesn't meet the threshold of
the fact that what's I think we've lost
our way is getting away from our
biological needs it's like we're animals
that are millions of years in the making
and you know we as I said grew up with
the sun right we evolved with the sun
there was no travel we we were in one
place and we had a circadian rhythm with
the sun we we ate natural food
um we experienced wide ranges of
temperatures you know uh from night we
were outside our whole lives so so so we
we had these We're Not Gonna out hack
that we're not going to look back in 100
years at today and and think we knew
anything about human biology the key
thing we need to use technology for
is is getting back to basics on human
biology so I'm not a big fan of of
frankenfone mead or lab-grown meat I
would say how do we Empower farmers and
incentivize farmers and incentivize the
people that make our food and give them
the tools to get back to creating
the one ton of genetic information that
we put in our bodies making sure that is
that is good it's so basic but it's just
like we need to get back to better food
we shouldn't be trying to out hack that
and then you talk about the money you
know we're going to go bankrupt from the
downstream effects of our broken food
system I know that we can figure this
out and I think technology has a role
two other quick things for technology I
think the biowebel revolution is real
and it's going to supplant the doctor's
office I think we're we're low on this
curve but I think the fact that a sensor
is going to know your glucose as levels
does my sister's company now or or
eventually many other biomarkers that
through AI can actually tell you what
you should be eating it can actually
tell you that you're going to get heart
disease in four years if you don't start
doing X Y and Z could actually tell you
when to drink water it can actually give
you bring chronic diseases to the
current day and actually tell you what's
going to happen if you don't exercise I
I think the perfect world we're in is
drugs at a last resort but just
understanding how this genetic
information food and our metabolic
habits impact Our Lives it can actually
well you blue past genetic information
food I call food genetic if it's one ton
of genetic information I call it genetic
information it it is it is they're atoms
from the world that brought into food
that is literally the fuel for our
bodies I mean why genetic are you saying
that there's genetic signaling going on
because I've I've often thought of food
as signaling molecules so it it is
literally communicating something to the
cells in your body and some
macronutrients say to do one thing and
other macronutrients say to do something
else is that what you mean
food is the fuel for ourselves
um food is um the most important
determinant of
life I mean I I just think we lose how
vital food is I think the fact that food
is uh brought into this kind of Niche
category of Lifestyle medicine is crazy
I mean food you know determines
everything in our body and um I think we
need to get back to that
now when you say the one ton of genetic
information you're talking about the
genes in the food are you talking about
the way that we're designed to respond
to food it's instructing our body what
to do I mean I think I think every every
impulse of our body every code in our
body is made to be powered by food and I
just think it's the most important thing
to
um to power our body so that that
reaction to me I think is really
important which is what is going wrong
with the foods that we eat which all
round to inflammation yeah
so talk to me about like when we were
talking about canola oil uh we're
talking about the everything being
Downstream of metabolic problems
um what is it about the food that we're
eating that is so pro-inflammatory
so
it's about the mitochondria so the
mitochondria goes off uh is fueled off
of fat or glucose okay and we're eating
a hundred times more sugar than we did
100 years ago so what's happening is
that's being pushed out of the
mitochondria and what obesity is is
basically the physical result of energy
overload so back in the day you know
before the past 50 years of our Ultra
process diet it was actually good to
have a little bit of excess glucose at
certain periods of time
so humans are actually made to hibernate
to some degree like evolutionarily we're
made to store some excess energy as fat
um and we actually are made to go
potentially weeks without eating
um so I think that's very key there's
been some some books about this nature
wants us to be fat and drop acid by poor
Mudder and so there's actually this
biological need when we see uh high
sugar food fructose and fruits to
actually eat as much as we possibly can
like evolutionarily when you saw that
you're actually well instructed and well
advised to eat as much as you can and
then it's a whole nother subcategory but
then fructose of course has been
processed and that's the type of sugar
that's in most of our food the high
fructose corn stuff it's a special type
of sugar that actually makes us want to
eat more um so for throughout history
right and and our mitochondria is is
made to do it it kicks out it's powered
by the glucose kicks out the excess
glucose and that actually turns into fat
and is stored as fat and then our body
shifts into fat burning mode and uses
that as energy humans today go through a
lifetime without shifting into fat
burning energy because we're constantly
at a Fed State constantly eating glucose
um and it takes you know as you go into
the research on the keto diet and
fasting and stuff it takes about 24
hours if you're in a high glucose state
to shift into that fat burning mode
humans literally go through not once
entering that mode
um so I I think in that sense you know
the the energy it kind of makes sense it
kind of makes sense to actually load up
load up a surplus but but we're
literally just it's backlogging it's
backlogging and that's causing insulin
resistance and that's causing metabolic
dysfunction that was one of the things
when we brought up fat earlier that so
while fat is potentially one of the
better results you you can have to
metabolic dysfunction because you've got
your body actually saying okay I'm going
to take this glucose out of the
bloodstream I'm going to store it as
fats better than leaving it in the
bloodstream which can cause all kinds of
problems right but fat is also an
endocrine organ and so it starts
secreting hormones which then can make
you more insulin resistant which can
make it more difficult for you than to
lose the fat so the more fat that you
put on the harder it can become to lose
the fat and so now you get into this
very problematic cycle where it really
does become harder and harder to shake
that and then on top of that you factor
in the microbiome that your microbiome
is going to adapt to whatever you're
eating so if you're eating things that
are making you insulin resistant and
your microbiome is then screaming out
for more of that food that is making you
insulin resistant now you're really in a
def Loop and so getting out of that and
this is actually going back to one of
the human things that I hear a lot which
is that there are people that are
pushing back on the food emotionally
right food is such a huge driver of
dopamine to your earlier point they feel
like I ought to be able to eat this like
it's not fair that I can't eat this
thing I want to eat this thing it makes
me feel the way that I want to feel in
the short term and so they get into this
Loop of you you have an emotional sense
of I ought to be able to eat this it's
unfair that I can't that people are
telling me I'm not supposed to that's
making me fat whatever
then you're putting on adipose tissue
and you're changing your microbiome so
you have the you talked about the Unholy
Trinity earlier I'll say that's the
Unholy Trinity that I think a lot about
is when people get into that decline
then it becomes very hard to pull out of
that so the last thing I'll say on that
is then that's where you get into this
ultimately yes I get it hard to hand
dealt to you other people have done
things that have contributed very
substantively to the condition that you
now find yourself in but unfortunately
to reverse out is going to require that
you do some things that are going to be
uncomfortable because when your
microbiome is crying out for McDonald's
and Coca-Cola it isn't Fun to drink
water and eat chicken breasts and
broccoli
I think we have an addiction issue in
this country and we need to think of
food through that I think you make the
only drug you're addicted to that you
can't cut good turkey yeah I think you
make a really really good point I had a
very interesting
um experience not eating for seven days
whoa
um and water only water only
water and coffee
with cream
uh I put a little bit of
um almond milk and coffee that that's
about it that's about it and I decided
to do this from reading a crazy stat
that the longest healthy fast ever with
with the multivitamins but other than
that just water it was like over 300
days yep
and that just shocked me right because
we've been totally bred to think you
know you gotta eat three meals a day he
was morbidly obese
but but but yet all of his biomarkers
improved very healthy lived very long
afterwards and that just shocked me
morbidly obese we most folks couldn't do
that but but they you know most humans
can go weeks and actually be relatively
I think Mr Beast just did a video where
he did like
16 days or something I was aiming for
like 28 or yeah I did like six Tapped
Out yeah but but that that just it was
Radical to me and I I'll say that just
psychologically I didn't feel hunger I
felt addiction withdrawals interesting I
felt addiction withdrawals and I did a
five day fast water only truly water
only yeah and I would never do a seven
day fast because my business slowed down
so much the first two days are fine day
three starts to get dicey by day four I
feel like I have the flu and it is not
fun so for me
days two three into four were rough and
then it was amazing and I never got to
them I think this is talked uh there's
been some writing on this and some of
the fasting books I've been reading but
it was like Euphoria and great
productivity
I I like I had a dinner party planned
and like it was almost like this boredom
like like it was like it was so
interesting about addiction it was so
interesting it was like it was like just
habit and I think that's just
acknowledging that I mean I mean we we
don't have as much thankfully a hunger
problem but we have an addiction problem
based on
um based on addictive food and I just it
gets to the spiritual question it's just
like this is not good like as an
American civilization you talk about
kind of thinking about top down thinking
about China thinking about American
competitiveness it's like the economy is
inputs and we've got you know very
increasingly sick addicted up population
in this addiction you know this uh this
fact that uh as we talked about our
cells are being overloaded with glucose
that's causing insulin resistance which
is highly related to a lot of mental
issues if you're uh triglycerides to HDL
ratio goes up for each point it goes up
your chance of depression goes up 90
this is a ratio that a lot of doctors
talk about is is the key kind of
indicator of insulin resistance but but
but there's a ton of of data showing how
tide insulin resistance diabetes is to
to depression it's like the inputs in
the economy are just individuals and
each of those individuals has a body and
a brain that's perceiving the world to
making decisions and determining their
happiness which is the end result of
what we should be trying to do with
public policy it's like we're
systematically destroying that it's like
there's a lot of complicated public
policy elements but like
I I just think we've got to talk about
our food crisis in terms of an addiction
crisis to kind of start unwinding this
expectation as you said that it's like
this expectation that everything we eat
needs to be highly processed and
everything we needs to kind of feed this
addiction that it's taking something
away if we don't if we don't do that I
think that's a real problem and and um
it should be dead hack like like the
opioid crisis I mean we really have an
addiction problem
that's a really interesting way to look
at it I saw a tweet that you did that
showed you pan from the Coca-Cola I
think it was in a CVS you pan from the
Coca-Cola to the um like diabetes uh
treatment that they offered and you were
like oh it's a closed loop system and
it's a bit like the
um guys selling you fentanyl is also
selling you Narcan or whatever it is the
overdose medication and so it's like he
wins either direction well it's a
conflict of interest I mean you look at
the you look at the financial reports of
CBS you know a huge driver of their
revenue is obviously selling
Pharmaceuticals but a huge part of that
is diabetes management as we talked
about um you know four trillion dollars
in health care well over a trillion of
that is tied to diabetes and then I
would say 90 of that entire budget is is
is Loosely tied to diabetes because
because blood sugar dysregulation is the
underpinning kind of branch
of many of the other chronic conditions
I mean it's really it's really the
foundation I'm writing
helping my sister Casey means write a
book about this I mean it truly is like
the Paradigm what's the core thesis is
that metabolic health is the lens we
need to view every health issue from
that it is a complete Scandal that we
have 42 medical departments it is a book
claiming that a metabolic view of health
is the new framework for how we need to
shift medicine too and offering uh
systematic and bottoms up tips
um on how to do that but we have to get
to that view
um and yeah the CVS thing I mean it is
absolutely unconscionable and just kind
of orwellian
um you know walking to the front of the
story I actually walked down every aisle
I mean it is like every item in in a CVS
is either you know loaded with
substances that only training that hurts
ourselves or is like an endocrine
disruptor or somehow you know harming an
environmental toxin that's also harming
our metabolism I mean there's a whole
row of artificial air fresheners you
know those are bad oh absolutely air
fresheners there is a crazy rabbit hole
on the uh artificial fragrances uh wow
those are fresh like perfumes absolutely
artificial so you go down you go down
the rabbit hole on artificial um
fragrances it's a huge huge problem I
mean
um I used to think and again you start
going down this rabbit hole it's like oh
my gosh everything is screwed you know
what's crazy yeah I asked my wife not to
wear perfume because I it gives me a
headache my whole life incense perfumes
Candle stores I can't I can't be in them
they're highly problematic
um and that row at CVS with all those
artificial air purifiers a lot of a lot
of the items on in those are all also
abandon your air purifiers you know the
things you plug in that you know release
the sense oh right right there's like a
hair freshener air fresheners
yes yeah yeah the air the air fresheners
got it but but but but you go down that
aisle there's a whole aisle for those
then you go down the aisle of cleaning
supplies and personal care products you
know these things again we I'm reluctant
to say this because it it gets into like
really every part of our Lives you know
being something you need to be concerned
about but I've turned the corner on that
a little bit I I I I think we really
should be concerned about the trajectory
we're going on and I think from seeing
it the lack of Regulation and oversight
is unprecedented in America like like
again it goes to like trusting like we
kind of trust that these companies have
our best interests at heart we trust
probably the government regulates it for
a lot of these personal care product
it's self-policing it's self-regulation
uh there's actually not even a lot of
testing like the amount of chemicals
that are allowed in our deodorants and
our shampoo in our air fresheners it is
is a scandal and you know we wonder why
sperm count is plummeting we wonder why
you know could there be a bigger signal
that something is off then our
evolutionary like core function of
reproduction is like falling off a cliff
um it's like there couldn't be a bigger
warning sign like fertility issues are
like skyrocketing right now
um and that's a lot of that is tied to
the hormone disruptors
um and uh you know good on the whole
Rabbit Hole here but yeah the the the
CVS the front of the store almost to the
item is something that disrupts our
metabolism and then the back of the
store you know 85 90 of the revenue and
Health Care is is tied to cleaning up
the mess of preventable
metabolic dysfunction
so um how do you unwind that
I I think knowledge is one thing but um
but we've got it we've got to examine
this as a society I'm with you 100 I
think I think complaining about public
policy is kind of a waste of time but
um we've got we've got a we've gotta at
least understand the problem facts
Cali means where can people follow you
Kelly means on Twitter tweeting a lot of
uh what I do there and I'm starting a
company truemed.com to change these
incentives I love it all right everybody
if you haven't already be sure to
subscribe and until next time my friends
be legendary take care peace
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