Kind: captions
Language: en
everybody's like in their house they
work in their cubicle they go home they
get on Discord they play a game they go
to sleep they don't have any partners
and they're miserable but they don't
know why
when you look at red pill or you look at
them I assume don't let me put words in
your mouth but I assume there are Parts
with you like okay these are actually
useful ideas that was my initial
reaction if we don't want a blanket go
after what the red pill Community is
chasing what should we be aiming at one
thing that I don't like about a lot of
red book creators and like the Tates I
feel this thing is people will always
say things like I'm luring you in with
the cars and the money and the girls but
I'm ultimately trying to sell you
self-improvement I feel like that's a
deal with the devil that just doesn't
pan out I don't think that you can
capture interest with money talk about
money money self-improvement money money
money money money money girls self
improvement money money money girls
because what's happening is you're
fostering an attachment to and a desire
for and a drive to acquire all of those
material goods and I don't think at the
end of a two or three year process of
that can you just flip a switch and be
like you know what actually I'm just
looking for like inner peace and
self-fulfillment like I think that has
to be from the start like I've never
heard of like Buddhist monks that are
like I just need to buy one Ferrari so
that I can realize how much I don't need
cars in my life right like it doesn't
work that way you I think you have to be
on a journey from the very start doing
the things you're advocating for doing
the things that you think ultimately are
going to resemble what your end product
is you can't do this bait and switch and
pretend that everybody's going to get it
like my guess would be if you could find
ways to pull people or stick a probe in
somebody's brain and measure it the
people that follow these red pill guys
are probably some of the most materially
driven people in the world which is both
ironic and sad because I think the the
red pill and the manuscript stuff to
some extent is like a response to kind
of like the empty liberal Wasteland of I
need possessions and objects to be my
hyper unique individual and not have any
Community orientation I consider myself
to be a very confident person for
whatever reason I've been very
independent of my whole life I've been
very confident in my whole life what's
it anchored around you're very smart you
think fast is it that
um I've I was very much left to my own
devices growing up like both my parents
moved out by the time was 15 16. I lived
in my own work like I was very much an
independent kid that breaks most people
so why did it make you confident no idea
I can't give you the answer to that can
I guess
um if you want to interesting that are
you nervous about my guess
uh no I can guess like 10 different
things your guess will be no I want to
hear yours first all right so my my
guess is uh you you have a lot of
intellectual horsepower you are very
Tethered to reality therefore you're
building maps of the world that are
actually effective and I think the most
unhappy people are the people whose base
assumptions are least Tethered to
reality and because of that their
prediction engine breaks and when your
prediction engine breaks and you can't
figure out how if I do this I will get
if I do a action I will get B result if
you can't figure that out life is going
to be miserable and it will seem
completely random you will feel
victimized you will get paralyzed and
and you will just throw your hands up
because you feel like the world knocks
you around and and you're just here for
the ride but if you're like you and for
whatever reason I don't know you well
enough to know how you ended up here
but you are you're able to build a
rubric by which you think it isn't
random like you really tether the way
that you'll break down an argument
you'll be like well this is my North
Star that's what everything is aiming at
this um base assumption is either true
or false you can test it against the
world show me the data you're very clear
about that if it's it's something I call
the physics of progress there there just
is a physics to the way that one makes
progress in a life period I don't care
who you are and I have a feeling because
of your intellect that you were very
able to navigate the world well doesn't
mean you didn't end up as a carpet
cleaner for a while but like you
navigated your way out of you know
feeling bad about leaving College to
take the job of the casino getting fired
from that ending up in carpet cleaning
but you navigated it and so I doubt you
felt hopeless for any long period of
time no that's true only a brief period
when I did the carpet cleaning stuff was
actually at the bottom of my Saturday
yeah but even at the bottom of that did
you feel like I'm stuck here forever
yeah you did yeah when my ex that I had
an abusive relationship with told me she
was pregnant and when I basically
flunked School uh for music to work full
time after I basically entered a
sophomore because I had so many AP
credits to flunk school and then to get
fired from the casino job that I was
that I flunked school for yeah it was
pretty I felt pretty dumb okay so how
did you get out because that moment made
I got super super Lucky by stumbling
under the streaming stuff it was yeah it
was a really bad it that's that's it's
always funny because like the most
Libertarian or like conservative I was
in my life was at the height of the
carpet cleaning and then once I'd gotten
into streaming and I've started to make
more and more and more money I'm moving
further and further left because I
realized how unbelievably horrible life
is when you don't have money and how
much things change when you do but yeah
yeah I mean truly it was like truly a
lot of luck to because I just happened
to be born at the right time I happened
to play The Right video games Starcraft
was the biggest streamed game basically
in the world and I happened to like play
a lot of Starcraft growing up I happen
to know a lot about like computer
technology yeah so I was just a super
right place in the right time yeah you
can't ignore luck and you need to own
when you you got really lucky like my
last company Quest the timing was just
luck I couldn't have done anything and
it was me getting really fed up at
exactly the right moment so I was just a
little bit ahead of everybody else when
we entered the world of social media and
so I will say that the rate of growth of
that company is luck sure but the fact
that we were able to build that company
was not luck there's a there's a saying
there's a quote that luck is
um preparation meets opportunity So the
lucky part is the opportunity but you
have to prepare to be ready to conquer
right for sure and I agree with that to
some extent but not for kids like I
think at kids it's just so like at what
age are you drawing a line the whole
from zero to 18. so like for example
um I mean you found streaming after that
um yeah I think when I was 21 is when I
started here's an example of like I'm
aware that I put in a lot of work too
and everything but I'd like to be
mindful of how different my life could
have been if one or two things would
have been changed
um so I discovered this about myself
when I was studying for my son
um for whether or not he had ADHD I'm
pretty sure I have unbelievably
unmanaged ADHD but there were a couple
things about it that I didn't understand
until I started reading for my son
um so in retrospect I look at like my
schooling life and I understand a lot I
was a horrible student
um I was like I had an assignment
notebook that like my teacher had to
sign and my parents had to sign because
I was so bad about doing homework
sometimes I would fall asleep in class
because I'd like sang up with too late
playing video games just the worst type
of student ever but the types of video
games I happen to like and this is
totally at random I don't get credit for
this I really liked role-playing games
like Japanese RPGs and so that's one
lucky thing a second lucky thing is I
happen to be born at a time when there
was no voice acting so I was such a good
reader I was in all AP classes I did a
lot of dual enrollment and you're saying
you became a good reader because you
could read this because I play those
types of video games but let's say I
would have grown up and I only played
like first person shooters I would have
been a I don't want to say [ __ ] but I
would have been [ __ ] I would have been
the dumbest kid in school ever because
who would I be because I don't spend any
time studying but because I was such a
good reader and I think reading is like
the most important skill that you can
probably have in school
um and then for whatever reason I had an
aptitude for math I don't want to say I
have flourished at school I think I came
out with like a it was like a 2.9 GPA
but I like I almost I was like three
credits from going into college as a
sophomore because I'd done so much AP so
much doing a room on everything all of
that like academic whatever you want to
call it was completely luck based
because I happened to play the right
types of games growing up and if I would
have been born 10 years later where
everybody has voice acting now I don't
even know if I'd be able to read I would
just be like an idiot I would be like oh
you know whatever like I would just be
so much different you know yeah and then
the technology stuff for whatever reason
I'm like very curious but like I like to
take things apart and put them back
together in the very early days of
streaming nowadays you push a button on
OBS and you go live way back in the day
we had have you ever heard a program
called flash media live encoder oh my
God it was this thing you had to
download like a different encoder to
encode the video you had to download a
different program to capture the camera
we used I think I think it was Camtasia
Studio we had to download something
called virtual audio cables to Route
multiple channels of audio to one thing
plus your headphone you're running like
six different programs and while you're
doing all of this you're only limited to
stream
like 300 kilobits per second okay so
this is way back there but if you go
back and you look at my videos on
YouTube from like 12 years ago they look
pretty good but it was because I spent
so much time like I remember the encoder
like people try to find like all these
ways to make stream better there's this
like x264 encoder that was so good but
it was it was only Japanese so when you
downloaded it all the documentation is
in Japanese I don't think there was
Google translate back then nobody knew
what the [ __ ] anything was you there
were no forums to get help but do you
speak Japanese no [ __ ] no I just would
plug it in and tweak settings until
eventually I got a really good image but
like so much of that was I worked I
worked a lot more than anybody else did
to make it work but the only reason I
even had those tools was because of so
many little lucky things that just
happened to fall the right way for me
growing up you know luck means something
to you it luck is it means that it's not
fair that's I think that's the thing
that bothers me the most and I see it
especially Through The Eyes of my son
like I was able to when I wanted him to
go to school I bought a house in the
best school district so that he could do
that and over like coffee of it like
when these kits are in kindergarten I
think they had laptops assigned to them
or iPads in kindergarten every single
kid got one and I moved from South South
Omaha where I lived and like some of
these schools have like [ __ ] like
textbooks and so when I see like no
offense to my kid I love him but he
didn't do anything to earn any of the
advantages that he has and to some
extent he's disadvantaged on because my
mom was a split but like there are so
many things that I could do to make his
life easier just because I had a lot of
money and it's like then I think of like
all the kids who are like kind of [ __ ]
because their parents just don't happen
to have enough money I'm like man that's
such [ __ ] and then I think to myself
like I consider myself to be if you
respect maybe think I'm an intelligent
individual that's cool but I was like
one or two decisions away from I would
be the guy showing up at your house like
cleaning your carpet and then that's all
you would ever see me and I'd leave and
that could have been like the rest of my
life you know I was like one or two
different decisions away from that being
the case so
it's interesting if you you said there
were like one or two traits that you had
that helped you be successful if if I
wanted to really mess you up what would
I damage about you or if you think of it
as video game stats
what one of your areas of stats would I
want to knock down a couple pegs to
really mess up your life well assuming
you're not talking about like maiming me
or physically no no no like just think
of it as game stats the the most
important attribute I have that I think
powered me for every part of my entire
life was I just have very very high
self-esteem I think I probably got that
to some extent from my dad uh my dad is
like a guy who will work and this is
Baseline yeah like he'll work an
impossible amount to like make things
work even if they make bad financial
he'll work 80 hours a week if you have
to and that was like the end of my life
the end of my like working life that was
that like I'll do whatever I need to do
I'll keep working I could do whatever
but like I'm very self-reliant very
self-dependent
um very self-confident like I am my
Island I'll figure my [ __ ] out like I'll
do that that ability or that fundamental
trait has powered me through a lot like
it helps me deal with a lot of hate
online helps to deal with a lot of like
adverse environments it helps me deal
with a lot of people that don't like me
death threats whatever crazy [ __ ] you
find online like I can deal with that
way better than most people and that's
probably my most important attribute
that's really interesting Okay so think
of your son as a video game character
and
um I'm at the end of this I'm going to
ask you who the ideal like man is that
you think people should look up to if
it's somebody even if it's a pop culture
character I will accept that answer but
I'd love to know so he's a video game
character what attributes are we going
to give him and what person real or
character are we modeling that after I
have no idea I never figured that out I
feel bad for him because he's 12 now but
like when I think of all the things that
shaped my life they were like kind of
bad things and I don't want him to like
that's interesting because I agree
because like some of the reasons I
didn't have kids yeah I like we did a
lot of like moving around a lot of
houses got foreclosed on a lot of
utilities got shut off a lot of like
dumb stuff like that well by me being my
own in a dark house with no electricity
and like just sitting there like doing
nothing
um and I think a lot of these things
went to [ __ ] my character and I thought
about that a lot with my kid I was like
what should I do to this [ __ ] to
make him you know but like like you're
not really gonna do that as a parent so
I don't know I
um in terms of like all I can do is I
talk to him as much as I can I try to
encourage him as much as I can
um I see he has a lot of the same
struggles in school as me which is
really [ __ ] frustrating because I I
remember there were certain Math
assignments that I would get and I would
cry and then it's not hard math but I
would just cry because I want to sit
down and do it I thought you said you
were good at math I was but I didn't
want to sit down and do the homework
that was like the that was the stupidest
part about it and I see for him he's
like really similar like he'll bring
home
um sometimes when I go back I'll help
like coach him through or like teach him
like certain things because you know
he's having trouble in certain things in
school and I can help catch him up or
whatever and for a while he was having
trouble math and he would bring these
assignments home I remember there's a
there's like a math assignment that he
had like zero out of six of these
questions correct and I'm like reading
the paper and he says the dumbest [ __ ]
I'm like Nathan we need to sit down and
do this he's like oh I want to go to
Target I want to buy these things I want
like the new Five Nights at Freddy comic
whatever like no we're gonna do it and
he's right [ __ ] and it's just stupid or
whatever if I get him to sit down and
focus and talk him like just make him
like work on it he can do everything
flawlessly and I'm like bro you're like
sabotaging yourself but I mean he's like
11 when I'm telling him what is it I
don't know if he knew what sabotage man
at that age right but like yeah I see
like a lot of the uh similarities so uh
he has access to medication now for his
ADHD at least which apparently I didn't
so hopefully that helps a little bit
like he does a lot better in school now
but yeah I feel like the most I could do
is I wanted to feel like he can
communicate with me always so we've had
like a lot of tough talks about like
online content and conversations with
people uh which are really weird because
I never had to deal with that growing up
kind of or it was a lot different
um yeah that but that's yeah I feel like
it's the best I could do is make myself
available to him and then if he wants to
hang out or do anything or chat about
anything like do that yeah all right
let's uh pretend that God forbid but
something happens to you and you have to
leave a set of ideas for him to grow
into the man that you think will be I
assume you use the word fulfillment or
something along those lines
um what would you want him to focus on
um and this is all meant to be a proxy
for like if the red pill sucks yeah no
it's the right play so here this is
something this is something that I have
an issue with I I feel like maybe
everybody feels this way so me saying it
it's just this is just my individual
frame of reference and I'm too dumb to
realize I'm the only one that thinks
about it or that everybody thinks the
same thing I feel like you have there's
an idea to me of what a strong man is
and then there's like a caricature of a
strong man and I feel like that
caricature is usually what's sold a lot
in the red pill spaces when I think of
all of the people that I grew up and
respected the most they were men that
commanded respect irrespective of any
power they wielded it was just like
I if I try to think so here's like here
would be an example okay
there were certain teachers I'll call
these like the they're the red pill
teachers everybody hates them they give
you demerits if you forget a book
They're screaming at kids in the hallway
and I guess to some extent they project
but I was like wow that's like a manly
dude he's like screaming people blah
blah then there were two teachers oh my
God I had a band teacher okay this guy
for four years because I did um win
ensemble in school
um this guy commanded an unbelievable
amount of respect uh he very very very
rarely would ever write you a demerit
but he was really good at every
instrument he was really passionate
about what he taught he treated every
child like an adult
um sometimes you're referring people
like Oh Mr Burnell or whatever like
that's right very very quiet in terms of
how I carried himself but if you the
worst feeling in the world was
disappointing Mr J Mr Johnson like if we
could be practicing or whatever and you
just you hadn't practiced your part you
didn't know it or whatever and if you
found out like sometimes he would stop
rehearsal and he would step forward and
say hey you want to just go ahead and
pack your Instagram away today and go
out and take a study haul and it was
like the worst feeling and like that
feeling was worse than any detention any
demand because you knew you disappointed
him because he like commanded so much
respect when I think of like manly
manner if I think of like really
masculine respectable people those are
the types of people that I think about
are people that they just they they do
what they do exceedingly well they're
very passionate about it they treat
everyone else around them with respect
and if they're disappointed in you like
you feel like you've lost the world
because it's like this is a guy whose
expectations you want to live up to so I
guess if I died or something happened or
um I I would hope my kid would find
somebody like that but I don't know the
I don't know any mainstream figures
where I'm like that guy I feel like in
old movies I feel like that was kind of
a common thing
um what was common they that you had
like that like the quiet respectable man
I feel like when I think of like old
stuff
um it's funny now because I feel like if
you remade a lot of these movies people
would just call it like oh you're just
making fun of toxic masks do you ever
see like the Mighty Ducks a long time
ago okay you like I feel like I feel
like if I sat and prepared a list you
have a lot of movies where you have an
adolescent teen and he's growing up and
he's like [ __ ] my parents I don't want
to do this I don't know blah blah blah
blah blah and then he usually he'll
break from the team you know go play
hooky or do his own thing and eventually
he comes back to realize like okay this
coach before he's doing things a certain
for a certain reason he carries himself
in a certain way and he's aspiring to
something greater that I need to control
my you know my childish adolescent manly
urges and I need to like be something
greater than myself and I feel like that
was a story that was told over and over
again through like film for young men
and stuff I don't know if you'd see
those stories as much anymore but yeah
so it was a really really long run about
you you see those stories as much that's
a really good question but the idea so
that to me is the modern media machine
grappling with the fact that we no
longer have of coming-of-age rituals for
men because What that particular kid
represents is the unchanneled male
aggression yeah so he's got it he's
usually one of the best players on the
team but he's erratic bad home life
nobody is shaping him nobody's taking
that energy and saying you need to be
able to control this and that this is
where I really fall on the whole idea of
toxic masculinity is that masculinity is
not toxic in and of itself not by a long
shot but aggression can be wielded
poorly in which case it would look toxic
or you can not understand yourself and
so you're lashing out your emotions
control you rather than you controlling
your emotions and so all of that then
can lead to some very dark things but
like in Mighty Ducks if you can have
traditionally an older male figure who
has learned to harness their aggression
uh into something especially in a team
sport where now you're also elevating
your team there's a level of competition
so sort of combat adjacent and so it's
tapping into all the things that young
boys are already going to be feeling but
you're showing them this is how you
direct that energy into something
positive something that serves the group
you have to subordinate the sort of
initial like
um this is my sort of emotional feeling
and even though I don't remember Mighty
Ducks well enough I'm going to imagine
there was a moment where they would show
the kid with unchecked aggression gets
in a fight whatever gets ejected from
the game right when they need them and
they end up losing yeah and then in the
final game uh he gets provoked in the
same way shows restraint controls his
emotion but then shows his competence
and his toughness or whatever to you
know get the winning shot yeah I think I
think even even more that I think in the
second movie it was not even getting the
winning shot because he was a puck hog
or whatever it was passing it back to
the other kid and then letting him take
the winning shot and it showed like the
development of yeah yeah I feel like
when I when you now that we've just had
this conversation when I think of a lot
of the red pill spaces a lot of the
people that I know personally they feel
like like the kid at the beginning of
the movie where they have amazing
potential they're really good at some of
the things they do they're funny they're
entertaining but they haven't found a
way to like positively channel that
energy right like men are very strong in
a lot of different ways and influence
and power and just the the presence they
willed and wielded responsibly it's like
the coolest most awesome thing in the
world and then wielded irresponsibly
it's people I guess screaming at each
other on camera trafficking people and
telling you that wealth in casinos and
all this stuff are the most yeah yeah
so it's interesting I am I know
sometimes people refer to you as the
Elder Statesman of streaming which is
hilarious to me as you are so much
younger than I am sure but when I look
at the red pill Community
um and I admittedly don't know it well
not like you but it it does bring out a
paternal side of me so I know you've
debated or at least done commentary on
just pearly things
she made my radar a while ago and she
really triggers like this paternal thing
in me so I'll I'll Tweet back at her so
she'll put something crazy like divorce
should be illegal every two hours yeah
yeah and I'm just like okay look I get
the energy I understand what you're
trying to accomplish but may I like open
your mind to that and so there is there
I want to engage more with that
community in a way to be like hey there
is a vision on the other side of this
coming from somebody I've had all the
the success that you guys are aiming for
I used to be terrible with women I could
not get laid I solved that problem then
I was [ __ ] broke I did not know how
to make money I solved that problem uh
and so all the trappings and I never
Market myself around like private jets
and big house and all that like I
to your earlier point it's a Faustian
bargain so I I have long believed you
want to add value to people in the way
that
um if you have a product is how I'm
normally explaining it you want to add
free value in the way that you're going
to add your paid value so you don't ever
want to cause that bait and switch it's
like I want to paint the the real life
that I live as the thing that you should
be aspiring towards including the moment
when I went from a normal amount of
money to because we sold a piece of the
company so it's literally instantaneous
so you go from man I hope one day I'm
rich I hope I hope I hope I hope I hope
and then boom in in a 60 second span you
suddenly are wealthy and I remember
being like oh wow all of my insecurities
are still present yeah and so it was
like this really big wake-up call of
like okay cool lesson learned got it I
know that chasing money is never going
to be the thing because what really
matters is how I feel about myself when
I'm by myself and so it's like I I was
really freaked out when there was no red
pill and it was just all sort of men are
bad that I was like okay that's a
disaster waiting to happen and I think
that there are really bad problems that
I think are still on the horizon that
men have been if you look at just
participation in education higher
education something very bad is
happening women are thriving and men are
tanking was the face that I've misread
data or no you're you're right it's
really bad not only is it bad in that
like um it's I don't want to say sexist
but like there was a huge push for women
to perform better in school which by the
way everything about that is really
funny because I think nobody wants to
admit but I think for a long time people
everybody just kind of assumed that like
women are just kind of dumb compared to
men and they can't really they're never
really going to be competitive of that
environment but then as more research
comes out it's really funny because it's
like [ __ ] actually women might actually
be better suited towards classes because
guys like to go like are a little bit
more physically tuned we want to like
run around and do stuff maybe women are
better students than men but we've gone
down that path and we've and women are
like destroying men in college
achievement now but there's a lot of the
old kind of I'll say sexist expectations
of society when kovid rolled around and
people needed to stay at home and work
more it was the men that typically did
it so more men drove out of school than
women so during covet it got even more
exaggerated and socially we are
absolutely not in an area where we can
begin to have the conversation of like
maybe we need to like have some
affirmative action for men getting back
into school that conversation is not
going to happen for at least 10 years
because there's just no way people look
at you crazy so
um yeah that's that's that's kind of
scary
the direction that we're headed at there
you can't one thing that people on the
left have a really hard time doing
um have you ever heard about Jordan
Peterson talk about integrating Your
Shadow yes yeah so this is something
um I learned is a really early age for
some reason I'm so happy I did but like
sometimes you can have a negative
personality trait and your immediate
reaction is you just want to not do that
thing ever okay I need to get rid of
that completely but the problem is is uh
you mentioned earlier you said a phrase
that I say a lot I'm trying to remember
what it was exactly but like you don't
want to completely get rid of a thing
you want to be able to capitalize on the
positives while down playing the
negative or not downplaying but like
reducing the negatives as much as
possible and people don't ever seem
capable of doing that so you have these
issues relating to like masculinity
that's toxic absolutely and we need to
like deal with those things but instead
of like dealing with them and kind of
capitalizing the positive aspects it's
like all of it is trash throw it out we
need to feminize everybody blah blah I
know that's not exactly what it is but
that's what it feels like sometimes I
think a lot of men feel that way and
it's so hard for people to just be like
okay hold on there's not everything here
is bad like we like draw a circle around
like what's good and try to like Salvage
that and then maybe like reduce some of
the the worse off things it's like
nobody can do that it drives me [ __ ]
crazy one of the I tell this like
defining yourself in like the reaction
or as a reactionary to whatever
particular thing you don't like you
define yourself as the opposition this
is so dumb it's interesting uh I agree
that doesn't make any sense it touches
on something though that I think is
really important so I am a big believer
that uh whether you're talking about
right or left male or female
the reason that humans have done so well
is that we have those polarities and
it's the tension between the two that
create a functioning society and what
worries me is that I think a big part of
modern culture is that we have created a
sense of it should be one or the other
like I I will just tell you right now
from uh whether we're talking about
right or left I I think we need both you
have to have both and you you should
actively be terrified if you yourself
ever have the impulse to get rid of the
other side because I think uh and I
suppose I should have set this up my
audience would be very familiar with
this but
um I I just come from the the one of the
base beliefs for me that make up my
entire world view is that you're having
a biological experience and you cannot
accurately predict your the outcome of
your behaviors until you understand your
product of evolution and that you're
part of your moods are determined by
these microbes that live in your Digest
subtract they respond to the things that
you eat part of your energy all of your
energy level is these little organelles
that don't even have your same DNA that
live inside of your cells and you're
just you're so influenced by your
biology in ways that people can't even
imagine and so you you have to
understand okay you're having this
biological experience if you're a social
creature uh evolution is is blind
watchmaker it's not thinking I'm going
to present it as if it were thinking
it's not but this is how it feels uh
okay I have to get these people to
cooperate flexibly in really large
numbers
if I let everybody so the left would be
compassion nobody left behind and then
the right would be personal
responsibility pick yourself up by your
bootstraps gross generalizations but it
gets us in ballparks and so if we just
because to me as somebody who naturally
leans left when I hear that I'm like oh
word yeah don't leave anybody behind
it's amazing that feels good to me and
the problem is that it doesn't work and
you get what will round to it's a very
complicated issue but we'll round it to
the freeloader problem once people
realize oh nobody left behind word go
hunt for me just bring me some back and
then people start to get pissed like
what the [ __ ] so that Community is going
to implode unless there's a
countervailing force which is the right
which is no hold on like if we're all
going to starve we need to go out hunt
we have to get good at hunting we can't
make excuses we just have to go do this
and so you need both in my estimation
and the second that you no longer want
the friction between the two you have a
problem so now if you apply this to male
and female the second you say one is bad
and you want to get rid of it and we
want to feminize men which is what I
feel like we've been doing over the last
decade maybe more and as you do that you
you end up not getting the tension
between the two poles and you begin to
get things that become pathological
because I think it's pathology on both
sides I think if everything goes hyper
feminine you get pathology if everything
goes hyper masculine you get pathology
and but it's it's really hard for people
to say oh I act I I want to be kept in
check you can reboot your life your
health even your career anything you
want all you need is discipline I can
teach you the tactics that I learned
while growing a billion dollar business
that will allow you to see your goals
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what I want to know is what do you think
it says about modern civilization that
or modern culture that Andrew Tate has
become a target for a lot of young men
to aim to be like I think that there are
kind of these empty
buckets in your head that need to be
filled with things so that might be
parents it might be school it might be
media and entertainment it might be
sports like there are these kind of like
really fundamental things that every
person needs and role models and people
telling you how to live your life and
what to do is also probably an important
thing for most people I think that in
the push to kind of like Elevate women
and minorities and all of these other
types of people in society that
historically didn't have the best
representation I think we've kind of
made the mistake of turning like white
people young men into like the enemy
because they had the stage for so long
two is that he displays a lot of the
stereotypical markers for success for
men girls cars Money travel which is
cool I think that's probably why people
look to them as far as like any charges
um
and some somebody emailed me a paper
recently I just read and it had to do
with the difference between epistemic
Bubbles and Echo Chambers and this paper
goes on to basically say that like an
epistemic bubble is you happen to live
in a certain area and you only hear
voices that agree with you and you kind
of develop a Viewpoint that way and the
way you deal with those people you're
different than people who live in the
Echo chamber and an echo chamber is
different than an epistemic bubble
because in an echo chamber you don't
just have voices that agree with you you
actively try to discredit voices that
disagree with you when you're in an
epistemic bubble sometimes showing
somebody another point of view can like
open their eyes and broaden their
perspective you know like hey did you
know that white people feel this way
black people feel this way women feel
this way right they're like oh I didn't
consider that before so people in an
epistemic bubble can be opened people in
Echo Chambers are harder because
sometimes providing a contrary point of
view reinforces the primary belief so
when you ask me you know for Andrew Tate
is getting locked up or arrested does
that help or hurt them personally I tend
to believe that a lot of those people
live in the Echo chamber because there
are actively discrediting outside voices
so when they're getting attacked from
the outside that reinforces the belief
that they have that it's actually
probably good it makes sense he is being
arrested all these charges are fake
everybody's after them the Matrix is
attacking them because they're like such
truth Sarah so I think with their core
fans I think the way that a lot of
controversy works is the amount of fans
you have will start to narrow but the
core fans become more and more
um like obsessed or invested like I
would say similarly for like Donald
Trump and the indictments every time
like a new thing comes out I think he
loses a few fans where people like this
is too much but the core fans that are
still supporting are like this is even
better than before I'm glad he's you
know he should be doing these things
like stick it to the guy I'm a huge
liberal very much establishment should I
love all of that but
um for unironically I am I super am um
we can fight over the FDA I didn't cover
CDC I'll defend all of it okay but um
one of the good critiques I think of
liberalism liberalism sold this idea to
everybody that you can be whatever
individual you want to pursue any kind
of lifestyle you want irrespective of
the roles prior stained by Society or
church or whatever on you which to some
extent I think has been a great success
so like I would point to women right
they have reproductive control and they
have the ability to work right which are
women are pursuing those lives they're
doing things I never could historically
like that's cool
in some ways though there is a trade
that we made where we traded away
probably too much community in exchange
for the individuality thing and
individuality is cool and awesome but I
think as people we probably have a need
one of those buckets in our head has to
be filled with something greater than
yourself I think you have to live for
something that's a little bit more than
you it could be family it could be a
church it could be a community Society
whatever it has to be something greater
than you and trading away that too much
I think is kind of in a very very
roundabout way has led to this kind of
super atomization where everybody's like
in their house they work in their
cubicle they go home they get on Discord
they play a game they go to sleep
they're making 120 000 a year they don't
have any partners and they're [ __ ]
miserable but they don't know why
because they've hit like all the liberal
markers for Success good education good
job making money has an apartment yeah
so I think that um a lot of these kind
of new movements popping up I think are
in a response to that sort of like
spiritual destitution but then my
critique was that a lot of them in a
roundabout way kind of face the same
Dragon you know it's very interesting so
I'm going to restate what I think you
just said before if I'm on track so you
have
you have a vision that the liberal
um mind I don't know if the right way to
the the liberal Vision anyway when I say
liberal here I'm sorry I mean it in like
the international like capital L liberal
like the individualists like
conservatives and liberals in the United
States would both be like capital L
liberals they're for like individual
rights individual pursuit of you know
what makes you happy and everything is
what I mean yeah right so in in that
narrative becoming dominant people
pursued that they atomize themselves I
think at the individual level they
pursue all the things that are painted
for them but that ends up creating a
either creating a vacuum hole in their
life or it stops the normal mechanisms
that would fill that hole from filling
it
um is that accurate so far yeah okay so
that makes a lot of sense to me so one
of the questions that that I want to ask
you specifically is somebody that
debates a lot is when I A lot of times
I'll be watching a debate and in
fairness to you you're the only person I
ever see that tries to ground a debate
like here are the the terms here's what
we're trying to accomplish but I think
there's an even more meta thing here
which I think what you're saying speaks
to which is you need to know what your
North Star is so as an entrepreneur you
always have to know what goal am I
trying to accomplish so that you can get
real world feedback so I try a thing
okay I'm gonna pursue
um getting a good job getting an
education doing the things that I love
me me pursue that
and if the markers of success are like
what you were if we're tying this back
to the Tate Brothers if the markers of
success are women cars money houses
girls travel Jets whatever your kpis are
going to be your bank account increasing
yeah exactly and so it may not have
anything to do with what I'll call The
evolutionary algorithm that's running in
your mind which tells you to in my
estimation seek fulfillment which is a
completely different game and so if you
don't know what your North Star is you
get very confused when you win the game
and don't feel the way that you thought
you were going to feel but you never
really pulled out into the light to say
oh what I'm actually optimizing for is a
feeling so that to me feels like the the
structure that's needed in a debate
would be like I would need everybody to
agree first and foremost what are we
trying to accomplish like as we debate
this point there is some overarching
thing so as you move through life as you
evaluate a stance on something which you
really are one of the most clear-headed
thinkers I've encountered uh in your
genre of debate which
it actually is saying a lot it's you're
that far ahead of most of the people
that are just bickering to bicker but
what what is the most meta thing that
you're aiming at
the the most the most Meta Meta Meta
Meta Meta thing if we round everything
out
um in terms of like moral philosophy uh
there's like a couple of like very
fundamental beliefs I have one is that
uh epistemically metaphysically I exist
I perceive things but whatever blah blah
um I exist an individual there's some
amount of like things that make me happy
that satisfy me
um and then there are other people in
the world that have a 99 shared
foundation in terms of like having
similar preferences so we all want to
have food shelter clothing families
friends
um that's one aspect and then a second
aspect is I think when humans
collaborate with each other they create
value right so if you have like 10
happiness units on your own and this guy
has 10 happiness units when you come
together you've created more than 20
you're at like 50 to 100 right that um
the the collection of human society is
greater than the sum of all of its parts
or something abstract that's like
created there so starting from that kind
of like Foundation you can kind of like
build out the site idea of like this
rosian sense of like justice and these
like social contracts where the goal I
think for any successful Society should
be to make it so you enable as many
people to seek fulfillment or happiness
or success as possible and that's kind
of how I Orient myself around like my
social or political positions that's on
the like the broadest like medicines
yeah I have a hypothesis and my
hypothesis is that there's only one
thing any human being should ever aim at
at the individual level at the
collective level period end of story
because of again going back to just
there's an evolutionary algorithm that I
believe is running in people's brains
you can say it was handed to you by God
or millions of years of evolution
however you want to look at it but for
the human animal which is a social
creature uh and the thing that has made
us the most dominant apex predator of
the world has ever seen ironically is
our ability to flexibly cooperate and
when you look at okay what would need to
be true given that nature only has two
levers Pleasure and Pain there end up
just being certain things that are true
about the way that our brain operates so
I I will say that I think the ultimate
North Star of everything everything uh
is human flourishing then if you were
going to say okay that's really vague
Define flourishing I would say there is
one neurochemical state that is the
closest thing to uh stable what I think
people would call happiness but I think
happiness is the wrong word because it's
so transient and that would be like that
yeah so now then I break down I think
that there's a recipe for fulfillment
which is that you have to work really
hard that that's like a key thing just
you have to work really hard or it won't
work so you have to work really hard to
gain a set of skills that matter to you
so it's exciting for you just to get
good at that thing so for you whether
it's music or debating whatever like you
had to work hard had to be something
that you cared about and it has to
elevate you and other people and if you
do that thing that that sense of
fulfillment Will Survive even something
like grief whereas happiness doesn't
survive grief and so as I like see
people arguing I'm just like okay well
we have a mechanism by which we can
determine which of these paths is really
going to work which is one we have to be
willing to encounter reality so we have
to get out of the theoretical and into
okay you ran that trial now look at the
real world results did it increase human
flourishing or decrease human
flourishing and then
you know you tweak the the tests that
you run until you get to something
that's more and more high functioning
but I often find that people end up
debating at The Ledger level right so
did it make more money less money
whatever and if that isn't the the North
Star you run into problems are you a Sam
Harris fan
I I have learned many things from Sam
Harris I would say I recently
disagree a bit with some of the things
that he's focused on but I haven't gone
into researching him in years okay
gotcha the human flourishing thing
reminds me of his moral landscape yes
that I would say is one thing I am
completely in line with with the idea of
making that just the north star of
reduced suffering that to me is a little
too vague also it it is a a move away
from strategy versus a move towards
um
I think I I think I largely agree with
what you say but in kind of a
meaningless sense and that I agree that
we should all pursue human flourishing
but it begs the question a bit because
it's like well if it's flourishing it's
probably good therefore we ought to
pursue it usually the nitty-gritty comes
down to what do we mean by human
flourishing that's always the tough one
when people argue because technically
like the maximum state of human
flourishing in society would probably be
giving everybody like a lethal dose of
heroin because for a brief moment in
time we would be shining brighter than
the brightest star in the galaxy and
then everybody would die but um but then
that makes an assumption that that is so
cognitively jarring for me it makes me
realize I have some other program
running in my mind so uh clearly for me
though this is unexplored I have a
longevity bias
so anything that that even if you sort
of gave me Peak a motion from a
neurochemical manipulation standpoint
certainly if it breaks longevity I would
automatically reject it out of hand
which is interesting and I bet you
wouldn't out of hand I because I bet I'm
sure if you're you're if you're a big
longevity guy I'm sure you've heard of
the term Health span right I'm sure that
there's probably some calculation where
you wouldn't trade some amount of Health
span for lifespan yeah but you'd have to
now we get into thought experiments
which may or may not be useful but for
that the thought experiment would need
to be if I knew there was no hope
whatsoever of ever getting better yeah
then immediately I click over into what
are we doing here I watch my cousin die
of cancer and I was just like what are
you doing at the end there was he
couldn't be comfortable the only time he
was he mildly comfortable is when he was
sleeping he was constantly gasping for
error I was just like what the [ __ ] like
you're never going home you know that
right like this is a one-way Street
medicine is not going to change so
radically you're not going to wake up
tomorrow and this is going to be cured
so if it were me at that point I for
sure would have tapped out
but if you told me hey if you just make
it another three years I know it's
grueling but if you can just make it
another three years I would want to so I
there becomes a point where I would
sacrifice yeah for sure yeah but I'm
yeah I'm saying to some extent though
there was a really interesting there was
a guy that um I always say I feel like
you can learn you can learn at least one
thing from anybody and there was a guy
that I was arguing with a long time ago
about investing and it wasn't like the
brightest cookie in the pack