Kind: captions
Language: en
I'm not an advocate for porn but the one
thing porn did do is show the average
man with a really beautiful woman looks
like naked a woman can put her ass on
Instagram and make more money than the
man that built the road to get to where
we're going I think that's a big issue
with society and I think that's men's
fault just be the best man you can be
because if you can become that man you
now have the opportunity to be able to
act like a gentleman and not have to do
things to manipulate other people you're
just that guy I think that there is
something very wrong with masculinity I
think that there is what I'll call
societal Decay I think something is
going wrong one I'd love to know if you
agree and if you do what precisely do
you think is the problem with modern
masculinity I think there's a lot of
things involved I think social media is
a big part of it what is it about social
media so I think in a lot of ways
if you were looking to any man that
wants to have a good life he needs to be
appreciated and so for example I have a
lot of guys that work for me in a steel
company well one thing that I'm
constantly challenged with is that guy
even though he's great at what he does
even though he's building America even
though he's doing things that makes the
world go round nobody appreciates him
for it because when he goes on Facebook
or Instagram he sees a 21 year old they
call a crypto pump or did Amazon Drop
Shipping driving a Lambo in Dubai
and I think that's a really big problem
what causes that problem though that
feels more to me like it is a
consequence of something that we need to
establish is what should a man derive
his worth from money women cars that's
not going to do it for you ever ever
it's going to be you meeting the
expectation you have for yourself of the
man so you envision this man that you're
going to become and I think most people
do that from an early age they see
something they want an avatar something
they want to do and they want to go
become that person and I believe the
formula for happiness and fulfillment is
the gap between your expectation of who
you become and your reality
and so a lot of guys are not meeting
that expectation for themselves and I
think it's harder and harder to do that
particularly in a world where we've gone
off the gold standard a man
can't just have a job and support a
family and be the man of the house
anymore and I think that's one of the
biggest issues with families now I want
to make sure that we're careful to piece
together exactly the argument here so
when I say that we have societal Decay
and it's tied to masculinity is that
are we in agreement with that 100 okay
so then as we begin to tease apart what
does that mean the first thing you went
to was men or they're not being
appreciated social media sort of blasts
that out you see all these images not of
hard-working blue collar or I'm putting
that word in your mouth but sort of
hands in the dirt doing something hard
that's no longer being celebrated
instead it's the crypto pump whatever
that and I say this a lot is that a
woman can put her ass on Instagram and
make more money than the man that built
the road to get to where we're going
I think that's a big issue with society
and I think that's men's fault I think
this whole thing is is actually the
fault of weak men okay so why is putting
your ass on Instagram a problem
because in a lot of ways
how was a man ever going to be able to
be with a woman that is showing herself
all over the Internet and still Garner
her respect if he doesn't shut it down
okay let's really answer that question
so
um garnering her respect does not feel
like there would be any problem if your
girl is I'm assuming we're talking only
fans here so your girl hasn't only fans
account she's putting her ass out there
she has been given a gift from God or
she's working on it and she's in
incredible shape and men are responding
and in many cases she's going to make
more money than the average guy which is
fine what I don't understand is well not
true yeah I would argue that it's not
fine for their Dynamic probably okay so
the base assumption that I hear you say
is that their Dynamic will not be
successful and will need to define
success in a second but their Dynamic
will not be successful she will not be
able to she won't be able to respect him
is that where you're going because she
earns more money she's in yeah I think I
think in most cases when the woman makes
more than the man and then there's a bit
of an issue okay and you see it quite a
bit I don't think I don't think that's a
crazy statement
it's interesting I don't think it's a
crazy statement but there's a follow-on
statement which is but what's the
alternative because you I I live by a
motto never ask someone to slow down so
that you can lead I agree I agree with
that completely and and here's another
thing I don't judge those women on only
fans I I think in the past I might have
put a light out there that I do actually
I don't because in my opinion there's
not enough strong men out there that
could lead a woman for all of the women
that probably make money on only fans to
find somebody they can look up to I do
think that's very important in a
relationship Dynamic that that the woman
does look up to the man in some way I do
think that's very important I think
that's very Primal as well do you think
it's important that men look up to the
women in some way I think it's important
that they love and respect them but not
there's a clear distinction for you
between there's a clear distression who
the leader is a respect equals love
right
oh
I'll take that in that you believe that
I do believe that I'd love for you to
challenge it I'd like so you don't think
if your woman doesn't respect you she
doesn't love you I don't think I love
certainly I don't love everyone
romantically that I respect no of course
not that's not what I'm saying like
respect equals love in the sense that if
a woman can't respect you she's probably
not going to love you and as she starts
and and in many situations when a woman
goes to leave if she has lost respect
for that man in some way I do believe
that yeah respect I would say is
necessary but not sufficient for a
long-term pair bond will you give me
that I'll give you anything okay so so
what do you think is though what do you
think is though uh what do I think is
the whole cocktail yeah what do you
think what do you think is a cohesion
that keeps a man and a woman together so
and this is we're now really jumping to
right where I think my disconnect is
with the
the god what word red pill is what
people are going to apply to you you
seem to sidestepping that yeah so what
what word would you put on your stance
if you had to put it under an umbrella I
believe the more strong men we build in
this world the better for men and as a
result the better for women okay so
we'll call that instead of calling it
ready it's like Jay Waller philosophy or
whatever yeah call it whatever you want
it's just men have to understand that
life is going to be difficult they're
going to have to fight their ass off to
get in a position to be able to find a
partner that looks up to them respects
them they can lead a family and feel
fulfillment and being the leader of that
family I think that's very natural for
every man to want to be the leader of
the household
yes okay this is this is a very
complicated issue
um let's take things one at a time so my
bundle of things that I think make for a
long-term relationship and this is the
one thing where I'll say as we distill
these down I think this is the place
where we're going to see where we don't
agree cool so I think that nature from
an evolutionary standpoint has ensured
that you are half of a whole and that
for you to manifest in your life all of
the success emotionally and um in the
tangible world of staying safe being fed
all of that uh procreating that you need
to come together as a unit and so now
the question becomes what is the ideal
unit and what is going to make sure that
that unit stays safe and strong so when
I look at that there is a neurological
component to pair bonding so Dr Amin has
done research on this fascinating guy if
people don't know who he is look him up
he's a a neuroscientist that's done more
brain scanning I think than anybody else
so he's been doing doing this for 20
plus years
yeah so vasopressin oxytocin and he was
saying I won't let someone date my
daughter until I scan their brain and I
see how receptive they are to those two
compounds because they're the compounds
that predict pair bonding and I thought
oh that's really interesting and I think
is a key reason why so I've been married
for 21 years and why I think our
marriage has been so successful and she
got with me when I was broke it's
hilarious that people accuse my life of
being of course people on the internet
bro so uh but she finds it funny and I
find it hilarious so uh part of our
reason I think I'm a super responder
so for me I really get something out of
pair bonding so when my wife and I got
together and by the way she's the only
woman I ever told I loved not the only
woman I've slept with but the only woman
I ever told I loved so for me it was
like one shot one kill I knew exactly
what I was looking for when I found it
that was it lock it up so and then the
rest was okay do I know how to navigate
this so that it gives me enough to be
worth the sacrifice but again I'm coming
at this from a a an evolutionary
perspective of what is most likely to
allow us to come together to be safe in
an ancestral environment where we're
getting attack left right and Center
where our kids are hyper likely to die
but this is all really a dangerous
Endeavor and so coming together and
saying are we making each other better
am I a better version of myself with her
than I would be without her is she a
better version of herself with me than
without me and
does she make me her number one and this
is where I think that's a big one yeah
where we might see a Schism between how
we look at this so I
I would never give up sex with other
women if I didn't become my wife's
number one and feel like the coolest
person in the world has picked me to be
like yo if you ever slip I've got you
you ever need to be pushed I've got you
you never ever need help I'll laugh
whatever somebody to see you celebrate
you cheer you on whatever like I got you
that is the only thing that I have ever
found that makes the other sacrifices
which is not just sex but that's a big
one especially for guys
has made that worth it can I ask you a
question on the I got you thing please
the support the cheering you on that
that's awesome stuff right
what about when you're down do you call
your wife or do you call
your guy friends my wife 100 yeah do you
feel like you have a Brotherhood where
you could call people outside of your
wife yes but I understand the position
it's
a genuine question whatever is true is
true I have no beef whatsoever
um no I would say that is that is
outside I have had that so my previous
business was with two other guys and it
was always very clear to me that the
Brotherhood was far more important than
the money and all that right so I know
what it is and I love it but
that that to me is a very important part
of what I think is broken I think that
men are not
being held to a exacting standard I
think that's a big part of the problem
here can you expand on exacting standard
I can but I don't want to deviate too
much from you so that's sort of my that
that's my rough nest of things where a
relationship can be can be worth all the
sacrifices you will make for it and turn
you into something better than you would
be on your own but the price it demands
is that you be the other person's number
one and you make them your number one
um what is your basket of goods that you
think make that relationship worthwhile
or not
well actually everything you just said
I'm completely in line with now I
wouldn't take my problems let's say to
my wife
because
I believe there's a really important
part of the male and female Dynamic
where you're you get to be the hero you
get to be the one saving the day you get
to be the one solving all the problems
especially in a world full of men that
are very feminized not to say that you
are but I believe that men are more
feminized now than they've ever been and
in the counter opposite direction with
the female like let's say feminism
women are going in the direction of more
masculinity men are being more feminine
and women are like where are the men and
it's been my experience for women I've
either dated or seen or even even at
home Hey listen I really like the fact
that you take the lead you take the mask
and roll and allow me to be feminine in
fact I would even go as far as to say is
that the smartest strongest young women
today are the ones that actually are
okay with hearing the noise from the
world and choose to be feminine and like
and enjoy it maybe you want to become a
mother which is something that's growing
more and more unpopular are getting
pushed back against an unrealistic time
frame that they have
so I do like the idea of being the hero
and not bringing problems home or to
someone that would have to worry because
I'm supposed to be the one solving those
problems
this said
as a father or as somebody that's
putting information on the internet all
I want to do is a few things I want to
educate people on or my children let's
just say my children on how the world
Works give them the tools it takes to
navigate through that world and put
themselves in a position where they have
choice
outside of that
I don't want anything for anyone else
but choice and that's from you know
guests that you've had on let's say
let's say uh Destiny you had Destiny on
right I got no issue with that guy if
that guy's happy and he's truly at peace
with himself even if he hated me bro I
got nothing but love for him because all
I want to see people have in their life
is is choice and happiness and only you
can decide that
so
um I think there's a way to make that
happen you obviously think there's a way
to make that happening Destiny thinks so
wait there's a way to make that happen
I'm almost certain that those three ways
are all complete well not completely
different but different in some regards
but I don't think that's what solves for
correct I think what solves correct is
if you're happy and you're fulfilled in
that relationship that's it do you think
that there is anything
pre-ordained about what's going to make
people happy and fulfilled
yeah I think appreciation for a man is
one thing I think men want to be
appreciated I really do I think it's
their job to go earn that appreciation
and I think women want to feel protected
and loved and cared for fully and they
want to know that they have a position
with that man where he is going to take
care of them forever or he is going to
put all of his efforts into taking care
and he gets fulfillment from it I get a
lot of fulfillment from taking care of
my family
I love it my little girls are spoiled
for anything they want you know and that
I've heard you say you would not simp
for your daughter's though I won't now
I'm glad you said that so when they
become 14 if they hear the wrong tweet
or they want to start coming at me with
the heat I'll quickly remind them who
pays the [ __ ] bills I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna send for them it's just not
that time yet right now I want to love
them I want to know they have a father
at home I want them they see me a lot I
was just telling you before the show I I
imagine that I spent more hours with my
kids than the average man because I'll
come home for a week at a time two weeks
at a time and stay with them all day I
see them quite a bit I I very much enjoy
it and um when the time comes you know
the teenage years if they want to get
fresh with me they will quickly find out
that
um my dad's not gonna play that's it no
I I in fact I kind of look forward to
kind of setting that frame with them I
think it's going to be important
okay I want to talk about that so even
your energy changes when you talk about
that like you imagine them 14 coming
with the heat uh your energy changed so
yeah that moment
I think is a very important moment I
think it's also very misunderstood and
can create
can create problems for sure in a
marriage could potentially create
problems with the kids whatever so
why is that I'm sorry which which thing
the the change in energy so I'll give
you an example
um my my path was going from weak to
strong and I got into business and I was
weak and Through The Crucible of a
Brotherhood and the free market yeah I
had to get hard
now I spent a lot of years in a very uh
intense I'll be generous a very intense
environment and it was exactly what I
needed and it hardened me and made me
far more capable than I ever was before
and it was incredible and I would never
take it back but
as soon as I then branched out and
started a company on my own I was like
okay I'm not doing that because it
breaks almost everyone that it touches
and I used to think about it like the
inner city and the inner city breaks the
vast majority of people that it touches
but you get a few people that have to
get so tough to overcome that that they
overshoot and they do just unbelievably
amazing things right but the vast
majority of people get destroyed by it I
feel that way about construction I can
imagine I really do yeah so getting
tough very important I'm sure we will
explore that more however in the tougher
I got the harder it was for my wife and
the only way she knew how to articulate
the problem was I want my husband back
and that was very disorienting for me
because I was proud of who I'd become
but she now I ultimately figure out what
she was trying to communicate and I'll
explain it in a second but that was very
weird the more proud I became of myself
the harder time she had in our marriage
and I was like well that's weird and so
she just kept saying I want my husband
back I want my husband back I want my
husband back and I'm like what do you
mean like I am your husband this is me
so are you saying you want something
other than who I Have Become
so anyway I finally realized what she's
looking for is for me to broadcast and
receive love meaning I can to use your
language I can hold a frame but I don't
have to be I don't have to shift into an
aggressive mode now I do and it feels
good and I love it but ultimately
communication isn't what you intend it's
what's heard and so and also is how you
make people feel yeah so how do you
navigate that moment where you go from
because the the yeah maybe I gave you
the wrong impression I think when I talk
about my girls my I get a little fired
up you know it means something to me
please so that's I think this this thing
is that the transition of energy
is exactly what makes
you uniquely interesting right you're
part of the for people that don't know
you're part of the um Andrew Tate small
group of people but you have a very
different vibe yeah uh but if you think
of that sort of energy as a spectrum and
you've got Andrew Tate at least publicly
is only ever on aggression in your face
I want to be a sensational and
inflammatory as humanly possible and
guilty or innocent like
he he creates a frame that is not
surprising at all that he brings a lot
of animosity in his Direction
you are able to move between there are
times where I'm going to be intense and
there are times where I'm going to be
jovial and sweet and a Gentleman you've
got a whole thing yeah I'm sure we'll
talk about it about what being a
gentleman means and all that
but that moment of Shifting your energy
I want to better understand what what
that means why like when you think about
your daughter's coming to you at 14
do you really want to bring the smoke or
is it like oh it won't be smoke at all I
think I think I think I might have shown
you energy from Passion anytime I get
passionate if you'd ask me a business
question and I'd have been talking about
my guys I would have said the same thing
but I wouldn't handle the situation any
different with my we're not much
different with my daughter than I would
an employee I'd move any table out of
the way I'd sit with her or him need a
knee and say Hey listen I see this this
and this and here's where I think that
this is going to either hurt you or
hinder your situation here's why I love
you with all my heart I'm not a yeller I
don't yell at my people I certainly
won't yell at my children would never
yell at a woman so what I'm saying is is
that yes I'll get fired up on the
subject but if it came down to me and
you talking about something that was
really really critical or me and my
daughter or me and an employee or me and
Andrew I would be very much just present
in that moment with them because I feel
like if you start yelling at someone
they can no longer hear you and so one
thing I like to do is like just sit
there need knee and be in their space
and just be present in the moment and
just tell them how I'm feeling I won't
get much higher than this in fact I'll
probably be a little lower than this I
don't I don't think people can hear you
when you yell at them
or when you get over overly aggressive
so I might have made that mistake
earlier in my 20s but generally now I'm
not raising my voice no not at all
what's the role of aggression I and I
asked that in the context of I really
want to know what is
young men listening to this they need a
Target to aim at they need to know what
the ideal man looks like
does aggression play a role in that
only when it needs to
I believe the definition of a man is
someone that can slit a throat and hold
a baby in the same day
I really do
I think that you have to have the entire
Spectrum in all areas and I only find it
necessary to be aggressive when you're
protecting
other than that I think that you can
love people through things and have
conversations I've fired people
that I told them I love them but they
got to go because I'd already set them
down and say hey look man I brought you
here I believe in you I really want you
to make me right but you're doing this
this and this and you can't do this on
job site
maybe a substance or maybe it's
something that's a safety issue so
please prove me right man because I
believe in you pull them in a month
later hey man I love you but this isn't
going to work we all work for this
company and I have to protect the other
families you have to go hug them let
them go that's it and so I don't I don't
see the I don't see a particular need to
get overly aggressive with anyone in any
situation even a physical altercation
I'm not a yeller I'll just throw the
first jab cross like because and I don't
even want to you know but there are
times for aggression but this outward
projection of aggression I'm never gonna
be good at I'm never gonna be good at
being Andrew Tate ever
we align on very very many things and we
have a lot of the same beliefs and he is
absolutely wonderful in person and you'd
be shocked
but I'll never be able to be him the way
he is online you know in any way and I I
could not even attempt to try you know
it's just not in me
um he has something that I don't in that
way like as far as being an orator or
being a person that that talks in
certain ways I'll never be able to do
that and don't wish to because I think
that my place and our group and what
we're trying to accomplish together
which is to help young men all over the
world there's a place for me in that and
it's not being Andrew it's being Justin
and that's all it can be anyway so it
doesn't matter
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with Bessie so what is the ideal that
you want to see young men or old men for
that matter strive towards I want young
men to
take accountability I want them to
understand the world
look at what it will take to create the
competencies to give them Choice it's no
different from before I want young men
to have choice
I say if I were to have a son and he
were to be gay
I would be completely cool with that my
my concern is okay if this is how you
feel that's fine I love you with all my
heart need any conversation right
however you're going to deal with this
this and this let me show you how to how
I think you can best handle it and then
put yourself in a position to have
choice or you can live your life on your
own terms and that's all I want for any
young man straight gay liberal
Republican anything like I love people
truly I have it in me it's not it's
going to come off of me I can't help it
in fact I would even go as far to say as
like my first year and a half online I
was just putting these positions where I
couldn't show a side of me that was
actually in there it's always these
arguing
the part that really loves people the
part that's not really judging anybody
the part that wants to understand and
help that part I don't I don't really
have much hate or aggression in my heart
really I only fight when I have to I
only defend and get aggressive when it's
somebody else and for the most part
people's words don't hurt me I had a
clip that went viral wasn't even my clip
it was a clip that went viral on a
dating show 25 million and I was just
getting hate because it was uh it was a
Christian lady and somebody asked me
about it on one of my podcasts and they
gave me a layup to [ __ ] on her and I
just refused to do it because I like a
lot of things that lady says and I think
if I were to meet that woman outside of
that context we would get along just
fine and for that reason I just don't
see the need to hate on anybody I want
to create a situation in my life and on
my platforms where
I'm enough for myself and anybody that
wants to follow me can anybody that
doesn't that's okay and I want people to
live their life that way because I feel
like there's a big push in the world to
either guilt or shame men into doing
things that Society wants and I don't
think that's the right way to go at all
what the choice Society want I believe
Society wants men to be weak I think
they want to be fat I think they want to
be submissive to their wives and in the
community in the way that maybe they
don't want to go and I think that's why
Andrew is so popular
I think there's a world full of there's
no there's no superheroes anymore man
I was sitting at Andrew's house the
other day
and this kid sent me a poster of me and
Andrew on the wall
and I flipped over and I showed Andrew I
said you know this used to be Rambo
and he goes I know it's [ __ ] crazy
so
I believe that young men are dis
disenfranchised with the direction that
Society is trying to take them
particularly in the West
and I think that they're fighting
against it and maybe even over maybe the
red pill space is over correcting I'm
not crazy about being called a red
pillar I'm really not bro I know I get
it I'm really [ __ ] not
um but I do believe that there's times
where the red pill space when the
world's dragging people in this
direction and the red spill and the red
pill is taking them to an extreme
hopefully my hope my genuine hope is
that they fall in the middle
and they can be a gentleman or they can
be a father and they don't hate women I
certainly don't hate women
at all and that's one thing that I think
the red pill space will probably like
try to promote maybe there's a little
peacocking there's things that are wrong
in the space but I think on the average
all they're doing is counteracting what
Society is making them in their and
they're hopefully falling in the middle
if they have a brain you know I mean
like you can't you know I heard Destiny
say on y'all show that if you were to
measure most red pill content followers
brains that it would be small I don't
think that's true I just think those
young men want to answer and they need
somebody strong to look up to and when
they look up now you know their
superheroes are homosexual or feminine
or whatever and and they don't buy it
and uh why why doesn't that work or why
is that bad
for young men yep I think that they're
disenfranchised with being suppressed as
males
in that they want to grow up and they
want to do these great things and they
want to be strong and they want to be
capable and the same thing with Jordan
Peterson Jordan Peterson created the
same movement in a much different way
and I just think that young men are
tired of of being asked to not be men
okay so that's hard to argue with man
um I can give you the please for it it
is not one that I necessarily agree with
but so before I do that what I I really
want to understand
um every every time somebody puts forth
a like this is how I think things should
be or whatever they put a hypothesis so
your hypothesis is that men are they're
not given a vision of what they could be
so I think that they have a true nature
is what I think they have a true nature
and it's getting suppressed they're when
they want to be something else okay so
men have a nature what is that nature
that nature is to conquer
to get as much build up as much as they
can become the greatest man build up
what
everything in their life they want to I
think truly men want to be an abundance
of resources they want to have abundance
of choice with women they want to have
children they want to have people that
look up to them they want to feel
appreciated all of these things and I
think those things are by and largely
getting suppressed okay particularly
even even in the school system
in what way does this school system
suppress that I don't feel like
curriculums are made for little boys
I think they're made
for mostly little I think girls do
better in school than boys and I think
that boys don't want to sit still I
think they want to go outside I think
they want to explore I think they want
to build things and so when a little boy
sits in a classroom and he's told to be
quiet or to sit still for hours on end
he's not going to be successful even me
myself I failed sixth grade I was
labeled a 504 student I got put on
Ritalin I didn't read all that well and
so that made me feel like I was failing
from the jump
well jokes on them like I substantially
make money more money than all of my
teachers put together every year it's
just I think that the world particularly
little boys have had enough of being
suppressed and let down and so that's
why guys like Peterson and Tate do so
well
okay very interesting I want to I want
to really
uh do I disagree with anything that
you've said not yet we may disagree in
the particulars but I do want to make
sure that we we answer the question
if so one thing I disagree with I don't
think there is a problem at all if the
superhero that's presented to kids is
gay that doesn't matter to me in the
slightest I think I think that people
are tired of getting things pushed in
their face I don't personally this is
why I think there is there's something
that marries these two ideas of The
Little Mermaid being black race swapped
and give being given gay superheroes
I'm going to articulate what it feels
like from this side of the table but let
me know wrong so because I love both
groups got none against any any ethnic
group or homosexual people in fact
I have a super good reason why I like
gay guys but go ahead give it to me bro
Imagine This
you're in a room
there's five guys in the room
one of those guys is gay and there's
there's one girl that's pretty and
everybody wants a girl
he's going to be the best dressed
sharpest
he's probably going to be in the best
shape and he's going to take one with
him so it's me against three other bombs
trying to think I love a gay guy reason
number two I love a gay guy is that if
you get on his team he is the best Ally
on the planet
as a wingman
so
I got none below for him enjoy your
month homie yeah and I've had a bunch of
close friends that are gay really good
to me too I had a banker that was my
banker for 10 years at Chase Bank really
helped me through some hard times helped
me move money all kinds of things and
like we would go eat lunch and dinner
and he'd hit on me I'm like bro shut up
and it was like this joke I'm like I'm
gonna kick your ass he goes oh please
like it's like it's just like guys don't
really care and I don't think people
care about race and and and gender or
excuse me the sexual preferment
preference as much as the world says and
I think that's the issue is that it gets
pushed in people's face anyway when
nobody really cares anymore
okay so uh the social engineering thing
will set aside at least on that part but
I do want to get a better understanding
of okay uh you said Society wants men
weak
um why would they want to make them weak
effeminate do you think so they'll
comply so they'll comply okay you want
to take over a country right
who are you gonna attack you're gonna
attack the fighting age males are you
going to attack the women the children
and the old people and get them thinking
that way and then create pressures on
the men and just let it
blow up from the inside out don't you
think that's what's happening to America
right now no what do you think is
happening
so I have a very bad feeling that this
is what happens when nobody's being
chased by a lion I think Jordan Peterson
so this is something I'm thinking
through now so everyone forgive me if
six months from now I have a totally
different take I watched Jordan Peterson
go on his dad Arc and I was really
excited about it was amazing and I think
he helped a lot of people I know a lot
of people hate him I think he did
unimaginably good things for a lot of
young men and when he came back from his
illness he was like super religious I
did not understand the hard right turn I
was like what is going on and
looking back on when he was the
internet's Dad it was he was really
ahead of his time and he was saying
things that people hadn't said before
and so you had guys coming out of the
woodwork saying basically thank you for
holding me to a standard which was what
I was saying in the beginning I think
this is really a problem of nobody's
being held to an exacting standard and
the reason they're not being held to an
exacting standard is there is no
immediate consequence to not being held
to an exacting standard because nobody's
being chased by a lion so you're even uh
you can't make ends meet like people can
survive in Chicago homeless what like
you can survive a winter in Chicago
because you get governmental support and
all that now that all of these things
when you isolate them sound awesome I
would never want somebody who ends up
being homeless not taken care of and yet
as we get to the point where Thomas
Jefferson had a quote every General
every generation must pay for freedom in
Blood and we don't do that anymore and
so we've now hit if Eric Weinstein is
right there was a 70-year
window of prosperity that was amazing
but it's become deranged because I don't
think intentionally with when nobody has
World War famine Great Depression like
none of that stuff is hammering people
that all of a sudden we have to and now
I'll bring it back to Jordan Peterson
you've got young people who their final
stage of development is a Messianic
complex so you want to really go matter
in the world man I really get that but
what happens when God is dead that's not
an effective way it's not an effective
organizing principle in society anymore
because on mass we just don't believe in
it it's a it's folklore it's a fairy
tale it's it's not anything real
Nietzsche called this back whenever he
was alive I forget what years and that's
really playing out now so you have a
world where things are easy and so this
is this is your idea of you want to give
people a choice and I get the way you
mean it so I'm going to use the same
word but I I don't want to pretend I
don't understand what you're talking
about but I think choice is the problem
I think that there are so few things
that people have to do to stay alive
that all of a sudden it's like oh I'm
not in a battle here for the the lives
of our children and so I don't have to
be back to back with my wife where she
also has a sword in her hand and I have
a sword in mind and look I'm going to
kill as many people as I can kill
because that's my job but hey you better
be ready if the [ __ ] hits the fan and
you're the last line of defense you
better be swinging that sword and so
that's my vision of how men and women
have worked historically and yes huge
division of labor all of that we can go
down that rabbit hole for now just
that's how I think about it they're back
to back bringing what they each bring to
the table to ensure the survival into
the Next Generation
so you have a world where you have
everybody passing through the need to
have their Messianic moment where they
can help save the world but because
there aren't those immediate impending
Dooms we start latching on to things
which are hugely important but they
don't have that kind of immediacy and so
now it becomes
oh God you start going on like literal
Crusades make whatever change you have
to make spend trillions of dollars
depopulate the Earth for
um the climate the climate is a problem
the climate must be addressed but when
it becomes your Messianic moment then I
think the solutions become pathologized
and are no longer in the realm when you
want to make sure that gay people are
celebrated and venerated as well as
anybody else but that's your Messianic
moment then now all of a sudden it
pushes out so far that it were to the
point where we're not even protecting
kids we're saying that okay same thing
yeah
so people are having enough of this I'm
not even worried about people having
enough what I'm saying is is it
pathological or not because if it isn't
pathological and it is real progress
then people need to reorient and so
agree every movement needs a North star
I think there is only one right North
Star I think it is absolute and I think
it should apply to everybody and that is
does this action increase human
flourishing and decrease human suffering
at the widest possible scale if yes do
it if no don't do it now you get into
complexities about okay how do we wait
future lives versus contemporary lives
anyway we will rapidly get way too far
off so this is what I think is the
problem yeah everyone needs their
Messiah moment like we need it we need
to matter we need to feel like we have
contributed meaning that's what I meant
by appreciation 100 which we'll get to
that because I've got a whole thing
about appreciation the number of times
I've tried to get my wife to understand
all you have to do you can manipulate me
to the ends of the Earth I will do
anything you want just [ __ ]
appreciate me just make me feel
appreciative yes anyway we'll get to
that but that ties into what you're
talking about brother a hundred percent
so
but right now my the the thing I think
is is a problem I do not think there's a
master plan I think we've made
everything so good he's just [ __ ] yeah
we've made things so good that now all
of a sudden things are breaking down
because we have these evolutionary
drives to fight to matter to be Messiahs
I don't mean that literally but that
that impulse to really save people to
really contribute to really help but
there's there's no one to fight anymore
there's so anyway it just there's
pathology on both sides it's what I
really want people to understand so what
do you think you think it's just because
we're in this whole Good Times strong
man strong men weak times
yes it's a very simple way it's probably
overly simplistic but it certainly gets
people in the right direction
but more important to me is okay then
what do we do about it so that's where I
really want to understand like the ideal
you've laid out what you want men to
strive towards what young men should be
doing
um but as we actually then put that in a
modern context what does it look like
what is your North Star off camera you
and I were talking in fact you brought
it up earlier that if you're striving
for money and things it won't work it
won't work but you should do it and so
how do you get people to understand that
I have a lot of money and yet I'm still
pursuing more money and unabashedly so
but I I understand what money is
and so how do you
help as as the more nuanced of the uh
tribe the uh I wouldn't say Elder
Statesman of the the red pill here I
wouldn't say that uh I would so whether
you're the most nuanced totally
different question but as the more
nuanced
um how do we bring this into the real
world how do we how do we give young men
a map out of a world where I think they
have too many choices because they're
not truly under threat and they're
making the Easy Choice at every turn
right and in conjunction with things
like chemical exposure which I do think
microplastics play a bigger role in all
this and I want to imagine yeah man uh
in in that sort of whole thing how do we
help them find a path cool so we have to
start with the fact that it's going to
be hard it's going to be difficult you
have to accept that right from there
there are things that were obviously
constantly promoting that they avoid
Drugs porn
you know chasing women as much as as
much attention as as let's say me and
Andrew and Tristan get for chasing women
I I cannot tell you how much I
disencourage young men to chase women I
often say give up your 20s becoming the
best man you can possibly be women will
see that they'll jump in front of you I
don't believe in game I've never taken a
game course I've never taught anybody
how to pick up a girl in fact I would
not even say I have a very good game I
think I got really good signals
but that's all predecessors from the
work I did to become the best man I can
be signals of what signals so Instagram
oh he has a good lifestyle he travels
muscles he's done well for himself other
men respect him I think those are good
signals that's how you would be a good
mate that I would be a good mate and I
think that's very Primal if you look in
the animal kingdom there's many many
animals that do dances or create certain
or have colors and all these other
things why did Indians have feathers so
so the women knew who could hunt who
couldn't What tent to get in right a
very non-apologetically feel that way I
do think that's very real and I think
it's very Primal uh do I think it'll
make you happy I absolutely do not
what makes a young man happy or what has
always made me happy is working on the
man that I'm going to become I often
talk about this thing I have called The
Rocking Chair test where I have this
relationship with the older version of
myself where he can no longer go out and
live and work and he's just sitting on a
rocking chair smoking a scar drinking
coffee and he's looking back and I keep
this this thing in my phone a folder
where I speak to him and I tell him hey
I'm scared of this I'm doing I'm doing
uh four mobile home parks right now I'm
in due diligence hey I'm a little bit
scared what if they're lying to me on
the plumbing or what if what if I have
to do a mode ad system and I'm
constantly talking to him because my
goal is to make the older version of me
happy while I'm trying to become the man
that I envisioned to be in my life and
to do that you have to take care of
things like Fitness money style
understanding how to network
understanding how to create connection
with another human these are all the
things that we're teaching people how to
do you're never going to go online and
find that Andrew take course how to text
girls you're never going to hear me
talking about how to text girls text
girls like this do this or most
importantly how to manipulate girls one
thing that I cannot stand seeing is
people teaching young men how to neck
women oh you're kind of okay you're
slain just be the best man you can be
because if you can become that man you
now have the opportunity to be able to
act like a gentleman and not have to do
things to manipulate other people you're
just that guy and I think that we're
trying to build young men that are that
guy even if it's not a tate status even
if it's not a fresher Myron status or a
destiny status maybe they're just a
person that lives in a small town has
respect for people in the community
makes a couple hundred grand a year
which is a lot right and and they live a
full fulfilled life where they can have
all the things that they wanted and they
worked hard to get it so they really
appreciate it I don't believe in giving
people compliments on something they
didn't work hard for if it's just
something natural because it won't mean
anything to you and so I feel the same
way for young men if they have to work
for it they understand life's going to
be hard they go through the struggles
just like you went through the struggles
in your business to build your
businesses it wouldn't be a suite if you
didn't have the pain and so I think what
we need to do is tell young men that is
going to be paying it's going to hurt
you're going to get hit in the face
you're going to get broken you might go
bankrupt but if you just keep fighting
you're going to be really proud of the
man you become
and I don't think there's anything other
than that that a young man needs to know
okay so what what are the areas that you
want to see that manifest in their life
so their physical body yeah I think is
number one even more than money
particularly when you're young and your
body is developing I think your physical
body is a big thing
um being able to communicate with other
people and not getting overly aggressive
you know I think that's really really
important
um understanding finances is a really
really big thing that I think most
people are undereducated and in
particular in the schools if they can
just understand how money Works they
could have a better relationship with it
not be scared of it be able to look at
it be able to actually use it as a tool
because that's all money is right is a
tool an opportunity for freedom and then
understanding female nature I think is
very important and there's a big divider
for me between understanding female
nature and learning game
because I in no way
ever want to make a young man think he
needs to learn how to get women he needs
to be that guy and absorb the attention
and then from there he has the proper
masculine frame to retain the woman and
have her respect him and that's it okay
so what does absorb the attention mean
yeah so if you're doing everything right
let's say you're doing Fitness money
style you're obviously respected in your
space or your industry you're a person
that Garners respect I believe that
women see that and they're like that's a
good horse to bet on
and then you're going to get attention
from women and then you have abundance
of choice of women notice I didn't say
sleep with a bunch of women a lot of
people in red pill space they'll be like
oh sleep with this many girls blah blah
I do think that having sex with a woman
changes the dynamic and that young men
should experience different
Dynamics with women after they've slept
with them but I don't have the set
number in my mind I just would like to
see them have that experience I think
that they'll need that in the future of
course why why I do think that when you
sleep with a young woman that
you're going to get a different response
out of some women than others some women
will never talk to you again they'll be
on a yacht tomorrow say Miami right some
girls that means something too and I
think a young man needs to see that
because ideally if I were to help him
make his decision he would put much more
of a time and energy investment in the
young woman that wants to have a family
and wants to not sleep with a bunch of
people I don't think that promiscuity uh
for women is a good thing at all I don't
I don't think it's I don't think it's
good for them and is it a double
standard yeah I do think it's a double
standard is it fair no sir I don't I
don't think it's is it a double standard
brought to you by Evolution or is it a
double standard broadcast I think it's
Society I think it's by Evolution 100 I
think that so you I believe that men are
wired to try to sleep with as many women
as possible and if they do that they
will have more what offspring yes so is
there what's your North Star is it
fulfillment his choice my North Star is
always going to be that's it choice
choice look who am I to tell nobody
tells good who am I to tell a young man
what to do with his life uh I can sell
him nobody exactly so hey here's how the
world works
here's what it's going to take for you
to put yourself in a position of choice
and then once you get the choice I think
you should be a good person I think you
should be kind to people I think you
should always tell the truth and be
honest and be able to communicate with
them okay I can't tell you I can't tell
you whether to have two wives or 50
girlfriends or one wife or to live in a
monastery
yes but you give a lot of advice and I
think the reason you give advice is you
know that some steps make sense and
other steps don't and but if I really
have a hard time believing you actually
optimize that you actually want people
to optimize for choice so
clarifying question we'll know so if
somebody's life had more choices but
they ended up in screaming Agony uh
would you still say that they were
better off because they have more
choices
no okay and that's a great point so
we're not our North Star isn't choices
you just think choices is a step along a
road to something else what is that
something else
I'm going back to Choice man well okay
so because some people are going to be
degenerate no matter what but they can't
know that they don't want somebody to
end up in a scenario where they have all
the choices in the world but they're in
screaming pain sure right so if Choice
led to
pain in their life you'd say oh it's
actually better to reduce choice right I
would but I haven't been your North Star
then no I believe
that if you're taking care of your
situation let's say you're in a bad
place and you're creating pain for
yourself you should have the choice to
change your atmosphere love that I'm a
very big believer in atmosphere like
let's say that I was what do you get
from changing your atmosphere you put
yourself in a different place have you
have you not gone from one place to
another and felt completely different I
have so I want to be very clear so we
don't argue about something stupid
um I I agree that choice is incredibly
valuable and the way I feel about Choice
exactly the way I feel about money that
you want as much Choice as you can get
right but it isn't the thing so having
choice will not make you feel good about
yourself
so if you make wise choices of course
then you may end up no no I think this
is really important and this is where I
think people end up optimizing for let's
take money it's far easier to people
will get it when I say money like if
you're optimizing your life for money we
both know Fool's errand even if you get
it you're gonna end up being like Oh I
didn't want this so or it did not give
me the thing I thought it was going to
give me so the my favorite story to tell
people about money is oh the way that I
got rich was selling a piece of my
company so you go from normal bank
account to commas and zeros everywhere
yeah literally in an instant Refresh on
your bank and boom it's there and I it
was wonderful now I had already learned
my lesson about money but the hilarious
thing was when it hit and I had all the
money suddenly I was like oh wow that's
interesting I still have all the same
insecurities that I had 90 seconds ago
so money is not going to change how you
feel about yourself but how you feel
about yourself is everything and so what
the the only thing that I think is
inarguable and I'm very open look I I've
been wrong before I've been confident
and wrong before so it is very possible
I am confident and wrong right now but I
don't think so I think the only thing
that is going to be Universal is if you
optimize to increase human flourishing
so every choice that you get because
choice is is
um it's amoral you you could have a
choice I could kill that person and get
away with it okay that's an additional
choice I don't advise it because
Evolution has given us Minds in a
certain way and unless you're a
sociopath I think it's really going to
mess with you to kill somebody for no
reason whatsoever or to kill something
and get what was there oh God so
I would say the only way to think about
it is you're optimizing for human
flourishing and choice is one of the
things that will help you be able to
navigate those paths well but you can
have choice and make all of the wrong
ones and end up in a position where yes
you can now back out of it and thank God
so we're grateful that you have choice
but you by just pursuing there's a word
and all of these pillars on the way to
choice
and this discipline okay it takes
discipline to go to the gym yep it takes
discipline to get up and go to work
again after you've been punched in the
face it takes discipline to show up it
might even take discipline and a meeting
for you to hold your tongue right and so
choice plus discipline
is going to be ideal but it's ultimately
choice and if you have the discipline to
get yourself out of a bad position or to
not make bad decisions then that choice
can never hurt you
would you add something to choice and
discipline
uh is there is there a better North Star
because I'm here to learn too I don't
know everything yeah so I would say that
I know I'm sitting in front of a smart
guy Tom yeah so I mean spend a lot of
time thinking about that so I I look we
both know that you have to run
everything against real life and so I
have no interest in having philosophies
that when deployed are useless so the
way that I see it is you have put your
finger on something incredibly important
this is why I want to make sure we're
not arguing about like right so what my
wife and I call arguing about the T
versus the real thing yeah so the
biggest fight my wife and I ever got
into was over a cup of tea and about two
hours into a screaming match I realized
there's no way this is about the Tea
there's just no way right and so finally
I was just I was like what are we really
arguing about here so you have laid out
some things on the table and I want to
make sure you hear and that everybody
listening here is I think choice is a
good thing it's very powerful right I
want to make sure that people understand
that there are going to be a few things
in their life that will be incredibly
important to have now I would say
without discipline you will never have
Choice exactly so discipline hugely
important already more important than
choice because discipline is the
foundational thing of choice of every
pillar yeah it will give you many things
including choice so you have discipline
which is uh necessary but not sufficient
for choice so discipline we have choice
choice is amazing but those are both
things that we leverage in my opinion to
get to a neurochemical state now it is
very important to understand one thing
about me that I am a physicalist I
believe everything comes down to your
brain I don't think there's anything
spiritual I don't think you have a soul
I think if I drive a three foot tamping
Rod through your head it will change you
forever true story look him up isn't
name is Phineas Gage and it's just that
just is and so even if this is all a
simulation which anybody that follows me
knows that really might be uh the
simulation Works in a certain way and so
there is still cause and effect within
the simulation so I believe that we are
entirely tied to our biology and that
you have nothing without biology which
is why I was saying I think I'm a hyper
responder to oxytocin and vasopressin
which is why it's easy for me to have a
21-year marriage other people may
struggle and maybe they're just dopamine
Freaks and so they have to [ __ ]
everything that moves because it's the
only thing that gives them that dopamine
rush so it's like know thyself I'm not
even passing judgment I don't care just
like I'm aiming towards one thing human
flourishing that's it now I think that
Evolution has just made it true that
human flourishing is
they're outliers everything's a bell
curve but there's a big like when we
talk about the center that Center is
follows a recipe that I will say is
fulfillment and that recipe is very
simple you must every word I'm going to
say is non-negotiable you must work hard
to Garner a set of skills that allow you
to serve not only yourself but other
people in a way that you find exciting
and if you do that and you are making
progress towards getting better at
helping people at something that you're
excited about and you're serving
yourself as well as others you will even
in moments of grief you will have
fulfillment you won't always have
happiness that's super transient and
nobody is happy in the middle of grief
but you can be fulfilled in the middle
of grief and the reason that that recipe
to me is just it is non-negotiable is
because nature had to make sure that as
it cobbled you together from a bunch of
competing cells that you would
ultimately stay alive long enough to
have kids that have kids that's it
that's all nature is trying to do and
since nature only has two levers
Pleasure and Pain it starts yanking the
[ __ ] out of those two levers to make
sure that you do all the behaviors that
you need to do in order to have kids
that have kids so don't you feel like
that's our basic desire to have the
choice to be able to do the things that
you just said
the only issue I have is I think if you
optimize as choice is the end product it
will lead to sub-optimal outcomes it
doesn't necessarily and you need to
fulfillment and do you think that the
proper answer is to optimize your cell
like optimize your body in your mind and
I think you're optimizing your biology
so you so for me everything can work
back from fulfillment so you have a
um you have algorithms running in your
mind right and those algorithms make you
value certain things and one of them is
for whatever reason and I'm guessing
there's just probably some relatively
self-evident things around being strong
or capable or whatever healthy maybe
it's that simple that when you get in
shape and guys I will say this for you
for sure as you get strong and look
aesthetically pleasing you will feel
awesome about yourself and if I lost
everything tomorrow and my wife let's
say left me step one get ridiculously
jacked it just I know that the biggest
breakthrough in business for me was
changing my physique
than I used to always say that I
completely agree with you 100 proceed so
but your mind's better everything
for sure to me that's all algorithm
running it just is there's no way to
escape it it also I believe that we put
energies off what does that mean so uh
you know how like the body is like an
electrical system I'm sure you know this
right or do you disagree I don't
disagree but now you're treading on
where listen this is not mine this is
not my subject but I do I do believe
that when you walk in a room and you're
and you're confident and you stand tall
and you believe in yourself that that
energy does come off of you
yes I don't I don't know that it matters
I totally agree that we send signals and
I totally agree the other person can
read those signals whether they're
energetic or just the brain knowing how
to read whatever it is yeah or whatever
so do you think that choice
false second to optimizing
I never thought about where Choice
specifically ranks all I know is you're
going to make choices so good to have
them in order to get to the point where
you can optimize yourself now for
instance if you were to strip away
freedom
then you can't maneuver through your
life to figure out the path that
actually allows you the the
neurochemical state that I'm trying to
help people get to which is fulfillment
so it is a necessary but not sufficient
piece of the puzzle I believe that most
all of humans and I mean like a high
high percentage 90 something percentile
are good people good people like
naturally I think things happen to them
in life where they get desperate and
they do things that would reclassify
them as bad but they were actually just
desperate that said I believe that most
people would love nothing more than to
put themselves in a position just like
you said all of our pillars are about
the same until we get to the end
but I believe that most people are good
people so most people would choose to do
fulfilling things and I'll use me for an
example this is all very very new to me
two years ago nobody knew who I was I
was just putting metal buildings up all
over America and trying to buy real
estate I hadn't mud on my hands driving
forklifts like I you know it was
Construction
but I finally got the business to a
place after over a decade 13 years
where I have a true management team and
staff all this other stuff I could have
done anything
this is by far the most fulfilling work
I've ever done and I don't think I'm
particularly special for doing it I
think most people have given the
opportunity to give back and feel like
they're helping other people on a large
scale would absolutely take that
opportunity regardless of whether it
made their status go up or anything like
that I think they would do it I really
really do most people don't have the
discipline to work hard enough to put
themselves in a position of choice to
actually get that fulfillment done
I don't think we're far off outside the
biochemistry Leaf about about how to get
to fulfillment probably not
um so my my concern is I think
do I think people are good no I don't
think people are default anything I
think people are default survival
machines and evolution has Pleasure and
Pain and algorithms that it's honed over
time that make us a very Cooperative
loving species and that is awesome and I
love people and I think that they're
amazing but I think that Soldier knitson
was right when he said the line between
good and evil runs through the heart of
every man I think that is I agree facts
I agree with that so we are capable of
both good and evil that's my true stance
now I think that people are also easily
confused myself included by the way I
had to what you just said I'm sorry I
don't mean to finish you off but like
we're here for you you're right it's
it's this divide between good and evil
right
and a young man that let's say goes on
the internet and he sees a bunch of guys
saying work out work your hardest be
honest build a team of Brothers you know
do everything that you're supposed to do
in life I think more often than not he
finds himself on the side of choice and
he chooses to be good instead of evil
I do think I do think by and largely I
don't even think it's closest so they're
not good they just no they're not
default good good choice but if they but
if they do these things that we're we're
all trying to preach you included I've
heard I've heard you say plenty of the
things that I say I don't think I don't
think there's a whole lot of new
information out there about how to live
a good life
it's if they take the initiative and
have the discipline to build these pill
pillars in their life if they all got to
a position where they had Choice let's
say you took a thousand men that don't
did all of those things that you did
that maybe I did that maybe some of
these other people had done I think they
would choose the side of doing good
things more than they would do evil
just naturally because because don't we
run in packs don't we want to be a part
of the group as humans yes right so I
I'm not sure this will be fruitful but
it'll be fun so let's go downstairs okay
so uh
one I'm going to say something that I
think you'll agree with so hard you're
going to get a leg cramp okay which is
that if you want to if you have somebody
that just won't make change their life
is trash in every way possible and you
want to see them make change uh you
kidnap them you take them to a deserted
island and you stock that deserted
island with people that they really
respect that will make huge demands of
them and they either conform to that
group and do the things to earn that
group's respect or they remain an
outcast they will conform to the group
and they will suddenly do all the things
you need to do to earn those people's
respect their life will turn around
instantaneously cramp installed yep so
whenever whenever somebody uh says oh my
god I've got a 15 year old and I just
cannot reach them what do I do I'm like
I'll tell you what'll work you're not
going to do it so that that's just the
Brotherhood it's going to work and it's
going to work 100 of the time now the
problem becomes that humans are very
good very good at othering other people
and hey evolution is just trying to keep
you alive long enough to have kids that
have kids now if we want to get real
ugly for a second and hey why not this
is what I think is true I think for a
very long time what ended up happening
and this is why we are going to talk
about polygyny at some point and here is
why I'm super tense about
I think polygyny is a response to an
economic situation where you end up
getting men that are hyper successful
you have no middle class and women
really are better off going with the you
know 0.1 percent of men or whatever and
being like the seventh wife it really is
better it's a wiser strategy when you're
trying to make sure that your kids have
argued the point proceed so I get that
now the catch becomes
that for a long time what we would do
when we had times of surplus men as they
call them so you've got all these guys
that can't get laid No One's Gonna like
to hear it said like that but that's the
truth and when young men can't get laid
they really become a problem and so you
would put them together into warring
tribes let's call them Vikings and you
set them about uh warring and the whole
point of war is kidnap women and look
it's ugly it's nasty and that's why I
say I don't know like internally their
tribe would be like oh my God they're
the most moral just incredible people
and then I'd be looking at them going
they have slaves they just killed that
woman's husband and took her back that's
horrendous but their group would say
they're amazing so this is one where
again I want to remind myself everybody
else can ignore me but I'm going to
remind myself the line between good and
evil runs through my heart and if I am
not constantly looking up at that North
Star what will accidentally mentally
become my North Star is everything good
for me
and the problem is that if that doesn't
reach a check somewhere now you're going
to have a problem do you think those
Vikings were bad people oh my God thank
you for asking me a question that I've
not thought through
um I think they did very bad things I do
not want future Generations judging me I
only want people in my current moment
judging me yes I'm speaking to all the
people tearing down the past right now
uh I don't think that's a wise or Fair
move
so I
I do not want to pass judgment from here
but I would not act like they act
I don't think you had a choice
yeah probably that's what I'm saying I
don't want to judge them because back
then you wouldn't have a choice yeah
totally get it
very yeah
say that again because for people that
don't know what you mean by that I think
that's a very important Point nature is
metal for sure you follow that Instagram
page yeah bro it's badass my boy gnarly
so gnarly bro but it it's a reality
check I don't like those videos but I'll
watch that vid a video on that channel
and be like this is what the world is
and you can get mad or play ball
you know and and another thing that
what's the gnarliest nature is metal
post you've seen bro I saw this one of
these two dogs they got caught on this
queen on the side of like a pond and
there's a crocodile at the bottom and
they're just scrambling trying to get up
and he's just waiting they didn't make
it bro they slid down and they're just
fighting to not slide down wow got him
yep yep yeah
but just like the Vikings that crocodile
is in a position of survival and I think
the humans are ultimately trying to live
their life at the highest levels of of
survival in all realms
I think every man is trying to do that I
don't I don't particularly think the
Vikings were bad people I think that
their back was against the wall and they
had no options
and so they did it by force
can I give you a slight variation on
that theme proceed
Nature's metal
the Only Rule of Nature and we are
animals this is where if people are
religious they are not going to
understand my take but we are animals
that crawled out of the primordial ooze
and used intelligence as a way to become
the most dominant predator of the world
has ever seen right
um
But ultimately the Only Rule of nature
is the week will do is the strong will
do as they will and the weak will suffer
as they must and that's it do you not
think that's Darwinism uh you could put
that word to it sure I just think that
that that's it like it just right you're
gonna survive or you're gonna die I have
things we're trying to eat you and
you're trying to eat things and if
you're good enough to kill them then you
get to and if they're good enough to
kill you then they get to right I say
all the time you know they're like I
love my country very much I'm very
Patriot like I love America especially
because I was born in the 80s you know
um I truly believe that America's a
bully
but if America was not bullying we would
be getting bullied by Russia or China
and and I think that if China could take
us over today they would do it
and I think even in 2020 to 20 2023
that's still a real thing
nature is still metal right now and like
back to you you I know you're gonna
bling up polygeny later
non-popular take but in a lot of ways
that's Darwinism too
not fair don't I'm not saying I like it
I'm not even saying I promote it
but in a lot of ways it is
you yourself said that they could be the
seventh wife but probably would live a
better life I don't love that I don't
love that statement I don't think it's
wrong though
so
what do we do what what would make it
something that you would voluntarily opt
out of
if they could get rid of social media
and create scenarios where the
Temptation was not in everybody's face I
think that would be a really good start
I don't have a direct answer on how to
voluntarily opt out because I understand
what's in me and understand what's in
most men
and but that's not uncontrollable so
this is uh yeah I think not being in
your face is a big deal really so uh
uh Jay Waller you have freakish amount
of discipline you know you could set it
aside if you wanted to and be faithful
I'll just speak for my own experience I
have a very high sex drive
and I'm sure at times my wife feels that
she suffers as a result but that doesn't
mean that I assess the situation and go
and look I'm rich and I have a high sex
drive so I could go to my wife and say
hey look I couldn't now because she's
too successful in her own right but back
in the day hey this is the way that it's
going to be right yeah and she I think
it's very straightforward to say would
have been like get the [ __ ] out of here
but let's just pretend that she rolled
with it uh I could go and do that and
I didn't and I've heard you say a
thousand times hey if guys don't wanna
I'm not promoting this if guys want to
do it like I totally get it and you're
not weak you you have been very
emotionally generous so all I'm trying
to to figure out not again I don't pass
a moral judgment on it yeah I have a
look at it from a societal lens where
I'm like look you're making hay while
the sun shines you find yourself in a
situation where you can do this but when
you're pushed on this you always give
what I think is the worst argument ever
from Jay Waller I think knowing your own
philosophy I could give a better answer
for why you do it all right then what is
my philosophy and then what do you
think's better okay so your philosophy
is the philosophy of choice I have given
myself all these options I have these
options I really can give these women a
better life it is a very small price to
pay for them to say hey you're going to
be number two or number three and uh
you're probably not going to go a lot
deeper than that I don't think uh and so
look I'm gonna make your life amazing
and you're going to be way better off
with me and by the way
these are your words it's not my life
you proceed but you can't hurt my
feelings no no I'm not worried about
hurting your feelings I'm talking to the
audience I want to make sure they
understand I'm representing your your
view uh that they can
they can certainly be with another guy
but the odds of him cheating on them and
just lying about it are very very high
very high whereas you are going to be
upfront you're going to tell them this
is the way that it is I really hope that
you want to be a part of this because I
would really love to share this with you
if you don't want to be a part of this I
totally understand
yes
yes but you're you are leaving one thing
out and I've actually left this out too
yep most of these women are bi okay and
I am screening for that yes so there's
there's a level of
Bonnie and Clyde accompanying like it's
a companionship like helping find other
women to be completely clear okay so can
I say it in another way you guys are
sharing asexual experience
together it's a shared thing love it the
most that I have no beef with but where
where I was going is that the argument
that you always give publicly sure which
what you just said is maybe a different
orientation that's better but uh for me
anyway
is that I can't control these urges and
so people always feel like this kind of
dissonance of here's this hyper
discipline guy has done all the [ __ ] and
I should have you know what when I when
I was asked about discipline on that
other podcast
I was so just one thing I hate more than
anything in the world is a judgmental
Christian I grew up in the South I could
not hear her
because all I saw or all I could hear
was her wagging her little Christian
finger at me Knowing damn good and well
she didn't get married until she was in
her 30s which means that more than
likely she had sex before marriage as
well like we're both Sinners and and I
should have why do you care why do you
care for Christian judges you usually I
grew up in it I grew up in it I grew up
in the deal lingering judgment from
Christians from yourself no no I feel
completely free that's why I'll come on
a podcast and talk about it why I don't
like I don't like Hypocrites like the
one thing in this world I hate the most
is hypocrisy and it's been my experience
with Christians particularly growing up
in south Louisiana that they'll tell you
one thing and do another and then if
they want something done they will pick
the Bible verse that fits the situation
and hit you upside the head with it it I
despise it I truly do
um and I think a lot of Christians
despise it the the Christians that that
just want to go to church and want to
have the relationship with God and their
faith and they have other people judging
them from this God complex that they
have because they think they've read the
scripture more than the next person or
they think they are better in some way
than the next person so they cast stones
down and they use the Bible as a sword
to do it I can't stand it truly the best
Christians I know are Christian I know
they're Christian and they don't talk
about it much it just comes off of them
they have that that Holy Spirit that
love in their heart whatever that is
that they have
and I really respect Christians that are
that way it's the ones that are
judgmental and that want to make a scene
about them being holier than thou or
their own some kind of religious
pedestal that you're not those people
can get [ __ ]
that said
I should have responded
I'm I have a ton of sexual discipline
you could put any of my friend's girl
butt naked in my bed for a week and I
can tell you I would not touch her
I also turned down quite a bit of
married women on social media it
discussed the [ __ ] out of me also a lot
of times Christians with their with
their Jesus background on their on their
Facebook timeline and then sliding in my
DMs I'm very aware of it I have a hyper
interesting View
of hypergamy all my social media just
because tell people that don't know
what's hypergamy hypergamy is when a
woman
is looking out into the world this is my
definition of not I don't have Webster's
uh memorized
when a woman is looking out into the
world and looking for other partners
that she could possibly be with and
putting out signals to see if she can
what they call Monkey Branch over to
that next partner so they have a foot in
the boat and a foot out in hopes that
they can jump on the other boat
and so and typically hypergamy is tied
to the idea of over or up so they're
dating it's either over or up and most
often times it's up
and and again I think that social media
wrecks families for this reason because
back in the 80s let's say you might see
a beautiful woman or you might see a
really handsome man as a woman you saw
him one time in a parking lot he might
live in that town with you and you might
not see him for another 20 years
that's not in your face
when I bought that Lamborghini the other
day it went on my Facebook
everybody's wife that is friends with me
on Facebook saw that I bought a
Lamborghini like I'm not super like
excited about that it's not even the
reason I posted it
but hypergamy is generally happening
when all these other options are out
there and that woman says okay well that
is a better mate choice for me from a
primal perspective and so they make that
attempt to make that move and you see it
quite a bit
especially with social media
it's interesting so I look at from a
social media perspective and again tying
this back into the the whole thing that
got me thinking about this is so one I
do view it very differently if you're
talking about uh my wife girlfriend
whatever status
we like to share this kind of sexual
experience no beef I to be honest I
don't have a beef with any of it people
should live whatever life they want what
I worry about is that just like the I
don't think the damage is being created
by social media per se I think that what
ends up happening is people have
no demands are being made of them
we don't have a sense of what is the
ideal
we
have like flipped the idea of oh if you
have an ideal your idea would be that I
think that women should have a low body
count to use the common phrase they
should have a low body count okay so I
disagree with you on social media you
think that social media I think social
media wrecks it I'll tell you why if and
I I'm not objectifying women but let's
say everybody knows a scale of one to
ten right amazing attractiveness a man
will sleep with a substantially less
attractive woman just to do it and now
that woman thinks that she deserves that
level of man so the guy that's really in
that girl's League she's like oh I slept
with that guy
and after the relationship happened she
settles and then she's looking around
still for other men I think that if
anybody gets married you get off social
media or have one together
truly
interesting I do that's that strikes me
as an uh like insecure right not in sick
yeah untrusting it feels like you feel
that people are trapped by their nature
and that they cannot be trusted with
their impulses not so much I don't think
you should put your partner in that
position
I trust the locks on my F-150 I don't
put it in a bad neighborhood
so why put her in that position of
Temptation interesting uh okay so
I see that my experience has led me to
see that very differently but maybe I am
from a Charmed time I will not deny that
there are uh when I hear so I have
employees that are much much younger
than me yeah and I see them having to
deal with hinge and you know things like
that and I'm like wow this really is
very different uh and certainly the apps
create pathology around a what I think
is the broader problem so I think that
what we have is is the Confluence of
everything that allows people to want it
all and want it now and nobody checks
them and so the thing I think we have is
again there's no lions and so since
nobody's being eaten alive and there's
no just like hey you can't act like that
[ __ ] you're going to get eaten so get
your ass inside there's no being outside
after dark white because you'll be eaten
right so once all that goes away it's
like well why can't I do this why can't
I do this and so any one micro thing
does not seem like a problem but then
all of a sudden we have strayed so far
from The evolutionary truth of the
algorithms running in our mind which
will lead to fulfillment that now the
sudden I don't have a beef with how
anybody lives their life but I see
people living their lives in a way that
does not lead to fulfillment so I'm just
like hey from my vantage point you have
too many choices and you're making a lot
of dumb ones because you're not
acknowledging that running in your brain
are evolutionarily planted algorithms
that demand you behave in a certain way
and the second you deviate from that it
won't feel good in and of itself it does
not matter what the world tells you the
world can celebrate you all day long for
uh being morbidly obese and you go girl
and whatever I promise running in your
mind is an algorithm it's like we have a
problem Houston we have a problem
because your body's not optimized to
carry fat like that it's not so now
you're just in a horrendous Place fat is
kicking off hormones like crazy your
joints are deteriorating the whole nine
like it is just a Cascade of problems so
I don't care if society's like this is
amazing
the algorithms in your brain will tell
you it sucks I agree with everything you
just said and I'd also argue that long
before they even get a chance of
fulfillment they're already suffering
what percentage of men are going without
sex large
they're suffering they're suffering
anyway
they're making these bad decisions
because they have too much choice right
they got the video games and the porn
and the sex dolls and all these
different things they can do I would
argue that they're already suffering
agreed yeah now the only thing saving us
from these young the sexless young men
going out and shooting up a whole bunch
of stuff is that they have these whole
in-cell communities where they kind of
have like their own little Brotherhood
and this weird little thing on the side
and the fact that HD porn is like think
about porn like this like I'm not an
advocate for porn but the one thing porn
did do is show the average man what a
really beautiful woman looks like naked
that they would have never seen
otherwise and now they're stuck to that
and they're in this whole Intel world
and they're sitting in video game chairs
and they're I think they're already
paying for it and they just don't know
it and I think the thing that's stopping
them from being very violent is that
they some have some kind of camaraderie
because now the number of men that don't
get attention from women that don't have
a social life that are overweight that
don't really go outside is becoming so
large
that they're finding friendship in it
somehow and I do think that's sad and I
think it's multiplying
okay I don't know that we've wrapped
this topic up sufficiently but I do want
to know we're actually talking about
discipline wow is this where this all
branches it branched off from discipline
and I have plenty of sexual discipline
fascinating yes yes that wow I have
plenty in a long journey uh okay so if
you have plenty of sexual discipline
um
as you rethink your answer where do you
land on
um is it is it just what the way that I
re-encapsulated it this is a fun thing
look I just in that moment felt really
judged by uh this no I didn't feel
judged at all I just directly don't like
hypocritical Christians I'm not confused
about my answer I have plenty of
self-discipline okay if I remember right
her question which is I'll ask the same
question sincerely but from a very
different angle I worry that we've
gotten to the point where uh polygyny is
becoming more common because we've
hollowed out the middle class
effectively we have allowed and or
encouraged men to be weak and because we
don't give them in a night men or women
and ideal to strive towards that creates
Harmony between the Sexes we get this
sort of very distorted bizarre world
that we're living in now which has a lot
of negative knock-on effects one of them
is that men at the top are going to get
all the women that's right um
yeah so is is it really it seems to me
more that you do it because you can not
because you can't stop yourself I do it
because I enjoy it a lot of people talk
about like oh well you must need the
validation no I don't you keep saying
you have said in interviews I'd pay 10
million dollars to not have these urges
yeah no I think I'd make more money I
think I'd make more money maybe but is
the money at this point I'm really when
I say that I'm really trying to make a
point I do it because I enjoy it what's
the point
the point is there was a time in my life
where I really struggled with it and I'm
feeling guilty I thought I was broken
yeah I no longer feel that way
I I was trying to find ways to stop
myself from feeling that way you know
what I felt like I felt like I was gonna
have to come out of the closet I swear
to God like I make this joke all the
time it's much easier for gay men than
straight men that want to have a lot of
sex because gay men is just accepted I
wanted to come out of the closet to
everybody to the world and be like hey
guys listen
I really like women
and I'm gonna sleep with a bunch of them
and I know you're gonna hate me for it
and that's one of my biggest fears
because I felt like I was going to get
kicked out of the group especially in
south Louisiana
I had this girlfriend in college she was
getting ready for Miss America she
wanted to Miss Louisiana I was having
these feelings and I was trying to fight
him and I remember going to church and I
would pray and pray God please don't let
me feel this way please please please
I'm making a mistake but man that
volleyball team was looking at me hard
man and that's what I wanted to do it's
really what I wanted to do and I didn't
I didn't feel insecure I didn't need to
validate anything I mean it's like
literally what I wanted to do it's like
when I drink
I don't drink because I'm sad I drink
because I want to have a good time with
my friends you know and and women have
really been the same way women have been
very good to me in my life
I've had great relationships with them I
liked them as people you know I don't
particularly even like to sleep with a
woman that I can't get along with or
connect on some emotional intellectual
level I'd say somewhere around 28 that
happened I enjoy it I like it they're
beautiful they add to life you know they
are they are really literally the cherry
on top of Life they're just wonderful
people I love women and I'm not sorry
about that in any way and
I don't think I'm alone and feeling this
way but I think I'm one of very few men
in the world that actually say it out
loud and be judged for it and be
patronized for it and I don't care you
know because I know that there's a bunch
of men out there that have a bunch of
love in their heart that want to love
somebody
that really just have affinity for women
and it doesn't I can only love one woman
at one time
I I love the mother of my children more
than anything on this [ __ ] planet I
die for I really do as long as I also
appreciate if she bring home a blonde
and she's down so for me
I don't care
what other people say about that because
I have choice in my life and that's why
I always go back to choice because I
trust myself to do the right things with
my choice I'm completely honest
I'm loving I'm caring
I'll rub her back when she's pregnant
you know like take care of her in every
way take care of my kids in every way I
would never stab a friend in the back
when it comes to a woman I have plenty
of discipline on the subject
and so my complete piece about it
you can reboot your life your health
even your career anything you want all
you need is discipline I can teach you
the tactics that I learned while growing
a billion dollar business that will
allow you to see your goals through
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what would you do if she said hey look
I'm all for it when we're together and
we can share this experience but I would
very much not want you to do it without
me would you adhere to that no
no
but I also think as Tom goes and I get
older it's probably just going to chill
out it's just going to fizzle
you know
and do you see yourself being with her
forever yeah I'll take care of her the
rest of her life she has my kids
but do you see yourself being with her
yeah yeah we're tight we're best friends
we have conversations about this
you know and do you like the idea of
being uh you're not going to use the
word married I understand that but
permanently pair bonded I don't know
what the the normal number as long as
you're in love man it's a beautiful
thing Love's real bro yeah like Love's
real she has the power to hurt me
if she left me it would hurt I would
feel it I would be in deep pain
it wouldn't change my stance
I'd hold strong but it would it would be
very painful I always say I might try to
get my ass whipped and have my heart
broke because it affects the business it
affects everything you know
so um
but no I have no intentions I ever do
anything but taking care of that woman
and beha and honestly it's one of the
driving factors in my life as far as
work I quite quite enjoy it there's
nothing better than
coming home and saying hey I got this
handle this handled this handle it makes
you the hero and I believe every man no
man wants a woman he can't say from a
castle on a dragon
that girl is from a Podunk town in
Louisiana
her dad still lives in a trailer
you know and I take her all over the
world I give her she lives in a
humongous [ __ ] house with beautiful
kids gets to raise them and I go out and
try to slay the dragons every day buying
property building buildings all over the
place doing podcasts doing stuff online
networking everything it's one of them
it's one of the most fulfilling things I
do probably the most second to that is
helping young men if they don't want to
take the same path as me I'm completely
okay with that they're not less of a man
if they want to be monogamous for the
rest of their life I think as long as
you have choice and you're doing what
you truly truly in your heart want to do
then I think you've succeeded you
included
so that's genuinely how I look at it but
as far as discipline goes I've got
plenty of it I just am not playing the
game it's like if you were to tell me if
we put a pizza down on this table
and you said Justin you're not
disciplined why are you eating all this
pizza I'd be like bro I'm still gonna
have a six-pack at the end of this pizza
bro you're on a diet not me
and that's how I feel about it
and
what's funny is I say all this on the
internet
and it doesn't stop my Instagram inbox
from filling up with women I can't even
answer the messages
so on some level I believe that women
don't even care as much as people think
well let me ask so what do you think
those women are after I would assume
knowing what I know about women it's not
just the sex so are they hoping to
become a permanent fixture in your life
are they hoping that they can turn your
head away from your girlfriend what do
you think there are I think all the
above I think it depends on the woman
some girlfriends are just trying to have
my kids
you know which is something really
interesting I noticed
um
about your situation is that your wife
didn't want to have kids which was
really surprising to me in that somehow
that's okay
with you uh it surprises me because I
just I I didn't say this to you earlier
but I super look up to you you're a
great man like Quest that's a big
[ __ ] deal dude like you're somebody's
yeah no it's just true it's actually I'm
not even being nice it's just a matter
of fact true and when I think about that
I'm like
bro Tommy you like
what if he had Sons what would that
Legacy be
and when I see a guy like you not Chase
it it makes me want to chase it even
more you know what I'm saying that's
good and thank you for your service by
the way yeah and I really mean that I
know super cheeky yeah uh but I I am
really worried about population collapse
and well the fact that we've chosen not
to have kids bro you know who's not
having kids the smart people
yeah the dumb people are having kids bro
there's something in that statement by
the way yeah uh there's something to the
fact that the more you educate women the
fewer kids are born because they're
growing Phantom penises bro
growing Phantom penises yes they are
they're very masculine and it takes a
super Super Hyper masculine man to make
them feel feminine
okay that was a hard turn so oh I get
that all the time let me reorient so
yeah what is the takeaway from that
that's why so my women have this is to
educate them no they have less education
so much
it starts with the education but then it
turns into girl power and feminism and
boss [ __ ] stuff when I think naturally
the natural state of a woman is to be a
little bit more submissive is to be in
in not the leadership role but the the
helping
the cause role and I think most women
ideally don't want to make all the
decisions don't want to pick where
dinner is don't want to make the hard
business choices they don't want to face
the pressure and stress of work they're
outliers maybe your wife is one of them
but I think by and largely the average
woman does not want that they don't want
that life they're being forced into that
life because men aren't showing up in
the same way as they used to and they
have all this pressure from society to
be a bad [ __ ] and so they end up
growing what I like to call this Phantom
penis
you know where they're kind of more of a
man than the guys that are trying to
date them
and so
we're in this weird Paradox where men
have to be super super super on top of
their stuff to even get a woman to want
to submit because why would a woman
want to take a risk on a man that she
doesn't even know if he can handle it
isn't that dangerous to her on a primal
level
yeah and when she makes more money than
him
and she has a higher prestigious
position than him
and she's supposed to come home and
they're going to supposed to be equal
Partners all of a sudden
I don't believe it and I know it's not
popular but I just think on a very basic
Primal level it's not true
it's not true and it doesn't and look I
have very high level women that work for
me making multiple six figures big bonus
checks I mean they
one percenter one of one of my women the
lady that runs my construction company
she is a one percenter
and she deserves every bit of it and we
couldn't make it without her she's
absolutely phenomenal
but she's also substantially older than
me grew up in a different generation I
don't think a woman can be
a breadwinner today and there be that
same sexual chemistry between her and
her husband
it's an interesting because of hypergamy
it's a very interesting thesis I
actually think there's probably more to
it than I think there's much more so uh
uh
argue with me no unfortunately on this
one all I can do is agree with you so uh
I think that men want to feel powerful
and just like women want to feel
beautiful yes you make a woman feel safe
seen and
um desired then heard yep for sure then
you're gonna do well if you make a man
feel appreciated and Powerful you're
done yeah yeah
and uh yeah it's very interesting so
this is now we're getting into the
territory of what I think the real
problem is cool so there's a great quote
I think it was Oscar Wilde who said
everything about everything is about sex
except sex that's about power
and the first time and of course it's
overly simplistic I don't want people to
freak out but the reason that the quote
gets people's attention is like there's
a little something to it that really
does carry something and
there so we'll take my wife and I wish
she was here so people could see I trust
me I'm not putting words in my wife's
mouth this is something we've talked
about a lot so my wife wanted to be a
bad [ __ ] she woke up one day and was
like you know what I want to go on my
entrepreneur Arc I really like this I'm
good at it which is true she is
unbelievable best business partner I've
had she's amazing
and at the same time I was like hey just
to be clear I'm not interested in
fighting for the role of leader in the
family and
but at the same time I'm never going to
ask you to slow down so I can lead but
when I'm better than you at something
I'm not going to pretend that you're
better than me and when you're better
than me at something I'm we're not going
to pretend that I'm not better but in no
uncertain like when we founded impact
Theory I said hey I am perfectly happy
to split the money that we have earned
you earned your half for sure happy to
give you your half you can go run the
business whatever business you want and
I'll take my half and I'll go run a
business or we can run it together if
we're going to run it together though
then uh and it's important to note at
this point that the attorneys were like
hey if you guys decide to run it
together one of you needs to have 51 one
of you needs to have 49 otherwise it's
the perfect divorce Nightmare and Lisa
was like obviously you take 51 like
makes all the sense in the world you
work harder than me totally get it I was
like absolutely not Over My Dead Body I
want the ultimate divorce nightmare
because we're never getting divorced and
it's up to me to be able to navigate
this well enough that we don't get
divorced so I'm like I'm all in I want
you to understand you're more important
to me than the business and I want to
put my money where my mouth is so the
company is 50 50. and so if we ever get
into a divorce [ __ ] everything blows
up I love it I love it I hate it I
understand so uh we've got the company
50 50. so I said okay if we're going to
do that then just know that of course
you're amazing I know what you're
capable of and we will always try to
convince each other if I think one thing
is right I'll try to convince you if you
think something's right you try to
convince me
uh and I love all that and yeah and
we'll honor that 100 obviously if you
have a woman running your company you
know that any individual anything I'd
love to be the best yeah right it's
wonderful I don't need to be right I
need to win and I don't care who says it
I say the same thing all the time so
but I want to be clear dear wife of mine
that
if we can't convince each other we will
go with my idea every time
and if you're cool with that then we can
do it together and if you're not cool
with that I totally understand but you
can't ever find ourselves in a stalemate
so one of us has to be the final Arbiter
yeah the way it normally breaks down is
if I know it's an area of her expertise
then I'm just going to be like okay it
makes more sense to go with your thing
but a few times it really has come down
to I understand your position perfectly
and think you're wrong you understand my
position perfectly and think I'm wrong
and we're just gonna then I'm the
tiebreaker right so look you can work
this stuff out and I really do believe
if in those moments I didn't feel like I
was the right person to lead Because by
the way I came to that conclusion
because we both think I'm the right
person to make that decision my wife was
not like oh my God like this is so
unfair she was like yeah you're the
right person to make that decision now
the problem becomes what if you're in a
marriage and you get to that point and
she's like I don't think you're the
right person to make that decision I
think all emotional Hell Breaks Loose I
don't know how he gets an erection and
and I don't know how she would want to
ever find herself under him and look
maybe that's me being old I don't know
that goes back to my respect equals love
thing your wife respects you because of
the businessman that you were and for
that reason she gave you the nod to make
these critical decisions
and that's all I really meant by respect
equals love it's the respect and as long
as she respects you and looks up to you
in the way that she wants you making
those decisions she will want to sleep
with you and that's what and that's what
I meant by what I said earlier so I
everything that you just said sounds
good to me in fact it's even better that
you gave her more stock like the money
is a side like give her the 51 whatever
but the fact that she came to you as a
decision maker I think is ideal
yeah so then you earned it these are the
easy parts
now we want to get into the hard part
which is okay Mr Bill you if you're
correct and this is really the way to
move forward
what do you do when you
unshackle women educate the [ __ ] out of
them they're better at education so
they're pulling ahead they are usually
more conscientious more organized a lot
of times yeah less problematic more
organized and so they fire ahead of men
yep
now what
Jay Waller what do we do because that is
the situation we find ourselves in women
are finally thank God Unshackled and all
of society now gets to benefit from
their insights their wisdom their
talents all of it
but it creates a dynamic which is
at least In Pockets problematic because
if hypergamy is real and it does seem to
be maybe it will diminish over time
there'll probably be second and third
order consequences to that but for now
it's pretty steady that they're still
going over and up but the pool of men
that qualify for over or up is
diminishing by the second
I think one or two things will happen
either we will go back to that kind of
that polygamy situation like we talked
about before or we're gonna have to go
all the way socialist and nobody owns
anything but either way I think it's
going to go I don't understand you know
how they say that there's going to be
some point that nobody's going to own
anything and they like it it's some
[ __ ] that the left's putting on yeah
yeah but we can derail on that right
right right yeah yeah it won't work it
won't work so
um
I I don't think it's going to be pretty
I think there's going to be more and
more men that are sexless and I think
there's going to be more and more women
that have this natural urge in them this
maternal urge the thing that God truly
gifted them with their superpower that
they're not going to be able to fulfill
it and and they're going to end up
working for these big corporations that
allow them to freeze their eggs or have
abortions or do these other things and
they're gonna miss out on probably the
most beautiful and most important job in
the world and that's being a mother and
also I might add the hardest job in the
world
and it's a shame do you think that will
self-correct
I think it would have to I don't know
that the powers that be don't want less
people they're worried about the climate
and everything
but I think it would have to
self-correct I think as humans we're
naturally going to self-correct anything
that will allow survival so maybe we
start putting incentive programs to have
babies maybe we Champion women that are
they did that in Japan I don't think
it's helped maybe not because I think if
the underlying problem persists the
hypergamy thing yeah I'll even say it
the other way if if the ideal that men
strive for is weakness
is supplication
uh then they will
this problem will persist and this is so
you said something earlier that actually
really hit me and I like a lot and I'm
going to imagine as one of the more
inflammatory things you've said which is
a real man is somebody you can go from
slitting a throat to holding a baby in
the same day I think most guys are like
word and most women are mortified so one
of the um I disagree I think I think
that a woman tell me more I think that a
woman most women even the hard ones even
the big boss [ __ ] women ultimately if
the right man sits in front of her at
the table and he controls his frame and
he and he is truly
meaning what he's saying and she finds
him to be competent charming and all the
other things that she will gladly put
down the boss [ __ ] crown and be
submissive and be happy inside that role
I true I just don't think those men are
walking around everywhere
interesting I think you're gonna have a
PR problem maybe so I don't know that
you're wrong in the final analysis but
as I think about how do we get there so
take my own wife one of the angles that
I considered for the episode was Jordan
Peterson as a really powerful idea and
he said uh
being harmless is not virtuous
that's right and
so it was like harmless men are weak was
like the angle and
even my wife was like no that's horrible
she was like yeah she was like as a
woman I want a guy to be harmless
towards me
now I think they're wrong and I think
what my wife who I know better than
anyone on this planet what she wants is
for me to be
yes covered in the blood of my enemies
even easier covered in the blood of her
enemies that I slay anyone that tries to
damage her or touch this family or hurt
us in some way that I would go on the
offensive and that she never has to
worry and she's safe in your arms
correct and going back to Jordan
Peterson's idea of so his whole thing
his analysis I don't know that this is
true I'd have to look into it but the
idea of the meek shall inherit the earth
and I never understood that and because
I read Meek is weak and I was like why
on God's green earth would weak people
ever inherit the earth they're not going
to it just the world is not working that
way and his read is that Meek in Old
Latin or Greek or whatever actually
meant the person capable of great
violence that keeps their sword sheathed
so Bruce Lee says you know the the best
way to win a fight is to not engage
but you're only choosing going back to
your idea of choice you're only choosing
whether to fight if you actually can
fight otherwise you're just being a
coward that's right and so that to me
feels like the real analysis but the way
that it's talked about especially now
this move this uh message was approved
is all about uh being aggressive is
toxic like I I am very stubborn about
the idea of mansplaining I'm in a
mansplain whatever the [ __ ] like if
mansplaining what is that uh you
actually have not heard that phrase wow
that's impossible so mansplaining is
where a guy uh is inappropriately
explaining something to other people as
if they don't understand it and my read
is if you assume that somebody is doing
anything other than either trying to be
generous with their knowledge or they're
just excited that they know something
and they want to share it and that's a
pretty natural thing to be like oh my
God I know something about I want to
like show that I know about basket
weaving or whatever
um that I think is is what's really
going on anyway that one winds me up but
that's my own hang up
do you know another thing that's kind of
in on the topic of
the being strong thing this fake virtue
signaling when they're they're really
just cowards
a lot of women fall for the mistake of
the men that are like I would never do
that there's a huge difference between
not being able to get women and being
loyal
and that's one thing that I find to be
very hypocritical of a lot of men that
will run around and talk about I would
never do that I would never do this this
and this oh no my friend you can't
so don't say that you're loyal when it's
really just your inability to Garner
attention from other women same thing
with violence you know
don't act like you turn the other cheek
if you have just not created a scenario
where you're physically capable of such
you know
so I I believe I believe completely in
what you're saying I completely agree I
have a question for you please what are
your thoughts on Jordan Peterson
so I think he's amazing I think he
tweets like a maniac and if I could get
him to stop tweeting I would uh I don't
like this sort of bitterness Vibe but I
think that he is once again onto
something critically important which is
okay we've lost God at the center of our
mythology and our self-understanding and
that has had critical implications he
wants to refill that hole with religion
I I think that's played out but I do
think that it does have to be replaced
with a shared narrative
I don't think that shared narrative has
to be asking people to believe that
there really is this divine creature or
whatever but I do think that we need
something it has to be shared it's it is
the fact that we don't share a mythology
that's causing a problem in my opinion I
agree that Christianity is the reason
that we live in Civilization the way we
do today I think Christianity was very
very very good for us as humans to work
together and have morals and not kill
each other and not rape and pillage I
agree with that
um
I also think that you're probably right
that he's not going to savor religion I
do find it quite interesting that he had
this huge Epiphany at such an age and
after something negative has happened to
him I think that's very interesting
you know and I think a lot of people
that go to Christianity wait until
something bad happens and then they come
out of the Christians I find that
interesting
for sure in what way you find it
interesting I don't know what your read
is on Christianity good bad I believe I
believe in God
a Christian God
I believe that there's a God and some
collective Consciousness can you define
a god
I think that that God exists in our
Collective consciousness of knowing
what's right and wrong and what's best
for the species humans were wiped out
would God cease to exist
probably okay so it's a it's an idea
that we all share but let me but but why
he's real right why God's real I heard
Andrew say this and I really resonate
with it he said if you were on a ship
and it wrecked and there were two
islands and you could swim one or two
directions
and you swam towards the island of a
Godless Island Savages they would kill
you
but if you swam left and it was a
religious Society
and because of God their God they did
not kill you and you lived is God real
and in that perspective I think Andrew
was right
do I think there's a guy in heaven
that's going to send me to hell for
sleeping with women or doing stuff that
people don't like sometimes or saying
the truth no I don't I don't uh in
regards to Jordan I think it's
interesting because he lived his entire
life
uh
before something bad happened to him and
I just think it's kind of a systematic
like a it's a pattern people have
something bad and they and they run to
God all of a sudden I do think that's
interesting and and what is it there
that's allowing him to hold it
you know like the bad time is over he's
probably got another book out by now
what what is it for him and this is a
genuine question that's that's allowing
him to still hold on to it or not feel
like a bit of a hypocrite inside I did
so he's assuming nothing falls apart
he's coming on the show late in the year
this year and I want to ask him
precisely about this idea uh now he's
the book he's writing is about I think
it's called temporarily anyway uh those
that struggle with God
now I still don't know I don't know how
he would answer the question now do you
believe in God because for a long time
he said I act as if
so in the beginning beginning it was
like I don't but I act as if then it was
just I act as if and now I'd be very
curious to know if he's really like
re-found a Christian style Faith or if
he looks at the Bible the way I do which
is a a mono myth it is a way for
everybody in society to Rally around
every set of principles and ideas it was
very good for society in many ways
depending on what slots into that yes so
Christianity has on balance probably
been good if you were in the middle of
the Crusades and you were on the Muslim
side you probably weren't a big fan
right but uh I think that probably on
balance if we're really going to and I
have not looked at this problem well
enough I'm now at the edge of what I
understand I always like to disclose
that but
um taking the frame for a second that
Western Civilization really is largely
born of a judeo-christian ethic and that
we can therefore if Society is really
Downstream of that belief system and
then we can look at what we have and go
okay cool does that good or bad I would
say Western Civilization is an
unbelievable miracle that Yanks people
out of poverty as fast as humanly
possible
um so yeah I'm certainly a fan of the
result do you trust that he's even going
to tell you the truth Jordan yes yeah
yes aggressively now I don't know Jordan
well I've interviewed him but I've never
had an interaction with him that wasn't
an interview
but from
everything that he pushes out that man
has taken more smoke brought more smoke
on him for just saying what he believes
is true if he's lying bro pick a better
lie because this guy is like constantly
embroiled in like lawsuits and
governmental bodies and like God damn if
this is him lying holy [ __ ] so yeah that
would just be nonsensical so the only
thing in and he so here's something I
really share with him there is a
trifecta of books if people have not
read them they must you you know nothing
about humans until you read the
following three books and that is the
gulag archipelago by Alexandra
solzhenitson
uh the rise and fall of the Third Reich
and Mao the Untold Story
and when you read those books which are
like the three great
um genocides really of the 20th century
it's unimaginable it's unimaginable how
evil people can be like how oh God much
rather be a dog on this queen sliding
into a crocodile's mouth yeah like it
humans can be so gnarly it's almost
impossible to imagine and so those books
just go into painstaking detail there's
another one honorary mentioned called
the red famine
um and that just happens to be basically
about the same thing as the gulag
archipelago but in it it's uh there was
effectively a manufactured famine in the
Ukraine
uh in the 1920s and they they killed
what were called the kulaks and the
kulaks were basically the successful
Farmers so imagine like your your high
performing uh entrepreneurs it when
people say Eat the Rich what I hear is
kill the kulaks and I'm just like bro
this experiment has been run and in the
book this woman they casually just
mentioned this This Woman's walking by
her neighbor's house in the middle of
the winter this is the Ukraine okay it's
not like a winter in California I've
been [ __ ] winter she's walking by her
neighbor's house she looks in the window
and she sees a woman eating eating her
seven-year-old daughter
that's what humans are capable of and so
from the lunacy of killing your best
performing farmers
two like well
daughter's only seven
if I eat or at least I can survive if
she's me she's still gonna die she's
only seven doesn't know how to do
anything so I'm just gonna [ __ ] eat
her like
now remember I see myself in that story
and I am terrified that that line of
Good and Evil runs through my own heart
and do I want to say that I would never
yes but as you were saying earlier
so
humans are capable of some really really
horrendous things and so Jordan turned
me on to the gulag archipelago really
got me thinking about just how
horrendous people can be
makes sense I'll have to read those
it's uh yeah it's super intense now what
made you ask about Jordan Peterson
there are times where I feel like he's a
bit hypocritical really yeah because he
used to be atheist I don't know if he
ever would have used that word and now
he's no no issue with that really it's
really more to me about running around
talking about being mentally tough and
then jumping on medications and having
to go to rehab and things like that
yeah like he's running around telling
young men to be strong and all this
other [ __ ] and then the first thing he
does is go start popping pills and
doesn't face it and he also talks about
being capable I don't find would be
overly capable I know he's an older man
I don't mean no disrespect to him he's
very well accomplished has accomplished
a lot I would never disrespect him but
in those regards I found him to be a bit
hypocritical interesting okay so you and
I see this very differently let me see
if I can convince you yeah uh here is my
read on Jordan for sure and just about
anybody
um in that position I think I'd feel the
same so my read on Jordan is you have a
very successful college professor who as
far as academics go has an amazing
career he already has multiple streams
of Revenue because he is extraordinarily
smart he wrote one of the most his book
on mythology maps of meaning uh as a
Storyteller like that's one of the most
profound books I've I've read she didn't
say he wasn't talented no we'll get
there but like I'm trying to paint a
picture of somebody who has everything
going for him his life is amazing he
does he's stood but this is this is back
right before bill c-16 so pre-bill c16
all this going for him doing great
taught at Harvard for a while I mean it
just you don't get a better academic
career he's got a private practice he's
helping a lot of people turning around
lives he spent I forget how many hours
he said something like 32 hours trying
to teach a man with I think an 84 IQ how
to fold paper and put it in an envelope
like this is a guy that has really gone
out of his way to help human right man
so you got to bear with me I'll get
there and so because we're what I'm
building towards is hypocrisy so he's
he's got this life
now Bill c-16 pops up he's read the
gulag archipelago he's read Mao the
untold story he knows the rise and fall
of the Third Reich he knows what humans
are capable of and he believes not to
put words in his mouth this is my
interpretation that he believes that all
it takes for all hell to break loose is
for good men to remain silent in that
moment where it's going to be
self-destructive to stand up for what
you believe is true and so he says hey
we're far from that now agreed I I think
he was the tip of the spirit so he ends
up standing up for it and for all
intents and purposes it it ends up
working out okay in many ways but for
all intents and purposes he has
devastating consequences in his life I
mean just blows his life up gets one of
the biggest cancellations you're ever
going to see I mean just ruthless and he
builds back and I think he says now he's
got like 10 lawsuits happening at once I
mean for him to stand up and speak about
what he thinks is true he has paid an
extraordinary price now if he is right
that all it takes for evil to take over
is for good men to say nothing then
sort of whether somebody reads his
actions as hypocritical or not he's done
this amazing service okay in my view
agreed so he pays this tremendous price
does this very important thing now he
let's say his wife gets diagnosed not
let's say his wife gets diagnosed in the
middle of all this madness his wife gets
diagnosed with cancer and all of a
sudden he has anxiety just overwhelming
him now I have to imagine the vast
majority of humanity has anxiety
way before that moment way before that
moment and so he struggles now could we
really say that Jordan has not worked on
being mentally tough that seems insane
to me but here's a guy who's like I'm
going to take every tool that's
available to me and drugs are one of the
tools available to me now I would advise
him and anybody that will listen to me
do not take a drug that you have to take
every day
I don't take anything every day except
Zyrtec which is an antihistamine and
even that I'm like I should be taking
this every day so I don't think people
should take any substance every day but
if if you have if you have not if you
have an anxiety or depression disorder
and you have not mastered it yet and you
need in acute situations a
pharmacological intervention I'm all for
that
now I think he would agree that the way
he went about it was foolish and I doubt
he'd do it again but with all of that
crashing down on him the fact that he
has a Breaking Point like everybody has
a Breaking Point the fact that he used a
an exogenous substance to try to deal
with it word like whatever use
everything at your disposal and so and I
agree with that use everything at your
disposal to to the point of uh for sure
if I ever needed drugs I would do it I
would try to do everything in my power
first for sure for sure for sure but as
somebody that dealt with profound
anxiety and the only reason I didn't
take anxiety medication at the height of
that was because I was so terrified I
didn't take daily anxiety medication I
was so terrified of taking anything
daily but acute yes I was like dude I
don't know what the [ __ ] is going on but
I feel like uh I I'm in a constant state
of dread and I don't know why now what
it ended up being is my diet but at the
time I didn't know that I had no idea so
I felt completely lost in the woods now
but I still even though I wasn't on
camera at the time I still would tell
people anybody would listen you got to
be toughening in your mind I'm saying it
to myself and I'm like but I was very
open I'm I have this anxiety I don't
know why the [ __ ] I'm working through it
it doesn't and there we are and there we
are yeah do you feel like he was as
transparent as you are right now
I
agree with everything you just said my
problem not even really a problem
because I don't have a problem with him
the inconsistency I see is that he was
not as transparent as you are right now
it didn't hit me weird at all so one
when I look at humans I assume they are
deeply flawed and Jordan Peterson and
Tom bilyu and Justin waller for sure
completely flawed deeply every way so
man I I look at him if I'm being honest
even though I look at things like his
tweets and they make me angry because
I'm like Jordan what the [ __ ] are you
doing he did a whole podcast about how
he tweets like a psychopath and he
should probably stop yes you should it
was a great podcast by the way Jordan uh
take that advice
but I I really do believe that he has
been and I get
made fun of I'm not sure what the right
word is I think people that stand up for
what they believe in are brave and that
I for a long time Justin Waller I hid
behind my guests on my own interview
show and I didn't say what I believed
and if people were saying something that
I thought that's [ __ ] crazy I just
stayed quiet and I was like I'm gonna
edit that out
and then I started when covid kicked off
I felt like a coward and I didn't like
that feeling and so I was like well now
I'm gonna have to start talking about
this and I didn't want to
because I was looking at Jordan Peterson
understand you don't know this about me
you asked me about this before he
started rolling I never got to the punch
line this shirt is a character I created
in the video game that we're building
and that is the joy of my life is
telling stories that Empower people
so anyway I I want to be the next Walt
Disney man yeah and I know that every
I've said 90 things in this podcast
alone that are going to make a certain
set of people never want to interact
with my games or whatever right and that
makes me sad but I don't want to be
freaking coward
it makes me happy for you because I feel
like the truest form of living life is
living life on your own terms
and speaking your truth one thing I've
learned about going on social media is
that yeah maybe some people hate me but
I get 10x love and a deeper love from
people that really appreciate me for who
I actually am and so for that reason you
have a cult following of people that
play your game
and anybody else was gonna wait till you
said something else I didn't like and
bear on you anyway so [ __ ] them
that is the final analysis but you and I
both know that if you're going to get
anywhere useful in life you can't lead
with your emotions and so you might
think [ __ ] them but for everybody
listening I would highly encourage you
to move through life with integrity and
strategy you can't just be a dumbass
bull in a china shop that says whatever
the [ __ ] all the time what have you said
on this podcast that was not Integrity
I've been entirely in Integrity in this
podcast exactly so if those people were
to not play your video game because you
just stated the truth aren't you still
in the integrity and aren't they just
going to hate you later when you say
something else they don't like okay I'm
gonna give since you're his friend I'm
going to give Andrew Tate advice through
you
dear Andrew
you're very smart
and you're going to positively impact a
lot of people
but the way that you frame things in
such an inflammatory way is [ __ ]
moronic okay because you brought
a lot of attention
but now
let's assume and I don't know I know you
do and I know you are a hundred percent
convinced he's innocent I love that even
even if you're wrong I love that you're
loyal and all that so no disrespect I
don't know the fun guy I never met him
nothing but he's on camera saying things
that I would have advised him not to say
ever even if he's joking so he has by
not being as strategic as he should have
been and I've heard him admit
he always couches it seeing how
influential I am now I would have said
things differently yes very wise because
the reality is the way that he has
purported himself again assuming that he
did not do these things
the way that he put himself out there
got him a huge following and made him a
literal Enemy of the State and at some
point man you just that was not as
strategic of a move as it could have
been so there I'm just like you need to
have integrity you need to say what is
true but you also need to be real what
is the world really like and you talk
about that you want your kids to know
what the world is really like and the
world is really like there are other
powerful forces out there and if you
pretend that they're not you're going to
get blindsided by dumb [ __ ] that you
could have avoided
end of the message end of message okay
message as Andrew's friend
Andrew may have said some things that he
didn't
that might not serve him now he might
have said them very loudly when he had a
small following Andrew like Jordan is
not perfect
but I do think he's a greater
good than Jordan that's gonna piss some
people off but I can tell you right now
Andrew's face just as much as Jordan if
not more probably more if not more
keeping a completely sober mind doing
push-ups having young men get better all
over the world despite the fact that
he's the Enemy of the State he's turned
it around and has helped many young men
go to Islam whether you agree with that
or not is I guess a non-issue but it is
definitely a stronger path in degeneracy
getting them fit teaching them to make
money all over the world in the real
world which I also promote and I would
argue that Andrew Tate is one of the
greatest forces for good and truth that
exists in the world today in front of
your friend Jordan
so on that I would say so again I don't
know Andrew so take all of my comments
with a grain of salt as somebody who is
not an Andrew scholar but looking at it
from the outside
I see hypocrisy in his actions from
and I don't know Islam well enough so
again I'm a headline reader right now
but at a headline reader level him
saying that
um you know women shouldn't be on only
fans but then profiting off of women
being on only fans does not strike me as
non-hypocritical
also and I think this is like so when I
look at Jordan and Jordan saying yeah
[ __ ] I needed the medication and I had
to do it and I never read it as he
wasn't being honest I don't know if he
talked about it or whatever but
I was impressed when Andrew wrote the
Tweet saying I can't remember if he said
he was one day he said I I almost cried
in jail today almost I thought wow like
he's actually being honest and he's
being vulnerable
and then the other day he put out a post
this is pretty recent he's back home
under house arrest and he said um I'm I
haven't slept more than 45 minutes a
night because I'm so worried I don't
remember if he used the word worried but
it was like okay whoa like obviously
this is really Weighing on him and all
that now that was not a signal to me
that you have a person with a weak mind
nor is it a signal to me that Jordan
having anxiety is the signal of a person
with a weak mind now if Jordan had been
screaming from the rooftops anybody
that's on pharmacology is a [ __ ]
idiot and what are you doing and that
makes you weak and bad and then it came
out that he was using it I have to
imagine if he didn't out and out say
I've prescribed this to my patients and
uh it's helped a lot of people might
when I heard he was on it I was like oh
yeah like it didn't even make my radar
is like oh that doesn't mean that you're
strong anymore plus let's say the Jordan
is the weakest person in the world I
would still which I don't believe no no
you haven't said that I'm just saying
even if he was I would still want him to
say hey guys look I'm totally weak but I
really encourage you to be strong and I
know that because I'm weak you guys
aren't going to take it as seriously but
it really from all the clients I've seen
like that really feels like the right
way to get the most out of your life
like the right message is the right
message and that is if somebody deploys
this is how I judge all advice if
somebody deploys your advice in their
real life will it move them towards
human flourishing and reduce suffering
if yes good advice if no bad advice that
simple and so I don't care if it comes
from the most flawed person in the
universe this is how Tate made my radar
because I was like look I gotta admit
pretty inflammatory kind of freaks me
out but 10 of what he says is really
real and you would be a fool to dismiss
and
so yeah I'm not a I I don't have the
response to anybody that says a true
message from uh what you're calling a
hypocritical stance that you do because
I think most people are flawed I can
only imagine if people went back through
everything I've ever said I've said a
ton of dumb hypocritical [ __ ] and so I'm
just like oh God so anyway I look at
people as wildly flawed individuals
hopefully trying to do their best
knowing that people will walk lines
flirt with [ __ ] that they probably
shouldn't
um but I know about myself that if every
word I had ever said were recorded
especially with my wife who I lay some
outrageous [ __ ] on her uh I would not
like that so I give everyone that Grace
yeah
what makes you happy
Jay Waller are you now interviewing me
yes uh what makes me I can argue about
Jordan Tate if you want to
um if there's more to say I'm happy to
say it I said everything I had to say do
you if you have more to say please
there's no bullet I won't take for Tate
I know let's talk about that just at a
Brotherhood level so if you take a
bullet for Tate you die and leave your
kids alone no Andrew will take care of
my whole family what do you mean so
because of that if that weren't in place
is that a key part of why you would take
a bullet
it's that's just an understood that he'd
take care of everything I think that the
relationship we have Fosters itself to
fighting for each other in every way so
he does things for me all the time in
fact uh
just the other day I needed something he
text the CEO immediately I mean like
we're constantly working together and
doing things when when he was in jail I
would go pick his mom up and stepdad
meet them and take them to lunch you
know we cover each other like that it's
it's honor it's something that I think
is highly missing Brotherhood is highly
missing from young men today they're on
their phones or by themselves I have a
real relationship with a real person I
don't look I I told Andrew this once man
I was like dude I got nothing against
Cobra Tate but I love Andrew
and there is no Jay Waller when I'm at
his houses hey Justin or Cowboy or
whatever and so
it's just something that I feel like a
lot of people are missing a lot of
people think that we're missing
something our group of friends
you know oh you don't have kids well
news flash I got kids oh you don't have
this dude I have it all I literally have
everything I have family I have children
that love me I have a wife that loves me
my mother-in-law brings my kids out to
my car when I leave for work I got
Andrew I have Brotherhood I have Tristan
I have the whole war room
there's nothing missing from my life I
am truly truly happy in every way I
think a lot of people want to hate on
our group and and say that we're not
happy or like we were aimlessly sleeping
with all these women and stuff and it's
just not true just last week when I was
at his house
it's he's sitting here I'm sitting by
his mom his stepdad's over here
Tristan's here we're all joking laughing
his kickboxing coaches across the way
screaming at us to eat onions because it
makes us stronger it was a family it was
the most wholesome thing you've ever
seen I always say the best side of
Andrews the side that the world never
sees
and if I were ever to give him advice it
was to be it would be to show who you
are when it's just us
because it's one of the most incredible
men you'll ever meet and of course I'm
going to feel that way of course I'm
biased of course I feel that way about
my closest friends and Tristan and
Sterling Cooper and some of these other
guys and some of the guys that I know
from the War Room of course but it is
such a great honor for me to be able to
protect and stick up for them with the
opportunity that I've been given and I
won't let that pass me by
what would you do if you
found something that made you believe he
is guilty
it would break my heart
because if he's guilty not only am I
wrong I'm a fool
because I've spent way too much time in
his house he would have had to do it
right underneath my nose he would have
had to be doing it in multiple cities on
car like
it's just not even my thought in my mind
it's not even a possibility I've been
around him way too much I have way too
many employees I've been lied to way too
many times I would have caught a micro
expression somewhere
he is the most consistent person I know
interesting
for that matter I don't worry about
whether they're going to get upset with
me about something or if we're going to
argue about something I've never had an
argument with either one of them
we've debated
for sure and enjoy doing it and it's fun
but it's only about getting better and
what the goal is and on the mission to
the goal it's never personal
he's one of the most consistent people
I've ever met truly I know what to
expect when I talk to him
so um
hope that answers the question but it
does I have a another layer to that so
now abstract it because what what I find
interesting in you and what I think you
represent what I hope young men hear
from you
um there is something special that they
should be Unapologetic about about
building a group of men that hold them
to a standard and that they hold them to
a standard and that they have a
Brotherhood and that there is honor and
that hopefully that they love a a small
almost inevitably a small group of
people that they would lay their lives
down for and this is you know if I can
imagine that very little good comes out
of War but that tends to be where people
say like I've never had that sort of
camaraderie like I did when we had a
shared adversary and our backs were
against the wall and it really was live
or die there's we're wired for that as a
species and so in a modern context you
don't really get that I had that a
little bit in business and every now and
then there'll be a click inside the
company uh right now we have a crew guys
and it's not this far
um to being like I take a bullet for
these guys but it feels different
there's a group that stays really late
every night not because they have to but
because they want to and you know it's
that it fills something in my life that
I don't get anywhere else and so the
edge I want to explore with that is
I've heard you say that you had been
betrayed before and so it really took
you a minute to trust but that giving
yourself over like that again and
trusting again felt awesome and so I
want to know what would you do if you
then felt betrayed by them
anybody you're you're like abstracted
from them because I'm not asking a
question about them but you're in a
group of people and you feel that sense
of Brotherhood camaraderie and all that
but then there is a betrayal would you
go [ __ ] I knew it like this was all
[ __ ] and it could never last or is
it like bad apple remove them I
understand now what better to look for
have to protect the Brotherhood
absolutely Bad Apple because I think
having family and people you can trust
relentlessly is one of the highest peaks
of human Joy I really do there's a
special feeling that crosses through me
when I know for a fact if I were to die
today that my kids would have to work
for nothing
and there's a certain honor I get from
knowing that if he were to die today
that I would take care of his kids in
the same way
I think it's a very rare thing in the
world today and that's why I believe
we're true we're not rich we're wealthy
you know I I genuinely believe that so
if someone would hurt me today
it would suck and I would have to
process it just like any other human I
would feel the pain just like any other
human I'm not super human like you said
we plenty of flaws
but I don't find it to be productive for
me to shut off the ability to trust
moving forward because without trust
there's no speed and without speed
there's no money there's no love there's
no growth there's no business and
there's no family so
you would have to trust again
how did you guys build that trust
over time we spent a lot of time
together I think you learned a lot about
a person when you look them in the eyes
you go through adversity together we
train together we do all kinds of things
together just the other day we're doing
MIT work and Amir is his trainer from
storm and Luton and Amir was punching me
like crazy and he was knocking he's
hitting me in the solar plexus with the
pad if you ever anybody you've seen a
meal imagine a Silverback Gorilla
with pads in his hand he's going to
punch you and he kept knocking the
breath out of me and is already as
cardio boxing and just like just dying
just tapping hands going in and you go
through things together been through the
mountains together done War Room events
together been in situations in in Odessa
Ukraine and by and like okay will you do
this I do this boom boom boom we'll get
this done bam boom you know we work
together on a daily basis the real world
is in my opinion probably the best
online school that's out there right now
and and I think that a kid would be
better off of doing the real world than
he would be going to Stanford and the
reason is because there's millionaires
that are doing that business that day
teaching you in real time and there's a
group of people helping you instead of
you studying it's like hey here's the
answer this is what works and so doing
that with him
and doing that with those young men and
helping them grow no I there's nothing
else I'd rather be doing it's the most
fulfilling thing I've ever done in my
life nobody thanks me for giving them a
roof over their head when they pay rent
and certainly not when I hit a
construction schedule
so I've never been happier doing this
and that's largely in part to him you
know asking me to come on and help be a
part of it and I'd much rather be on a
team that wins championships than meet
Kevin Garnett and never win anything you
know and be the best player on my team
I think it's lame and I think it's very
unusual yeah well
I also believe that
Scottie Pippen was one of the best
players ever because he could have left
him in the store somewhere but he
decided not to because he saw what
Michael had and for that reason they had
plenty plenty of trophies and I think in
the end if you can be selfless enough to
look at where it makes the most sense
maybe you could have been the fifth best
player in the league or you could have
been the number one two man ever to live
so to me man I don't I know who I am as
a person I run I have tons and tons of
employees I don't need the ego boost I
want to win and I want to do the right
thing for these young men and I believe
that what I'm doing with Andrew is that
so there's no other direction for me to
go
do you guys have like uh
Credo do you guys have a list of things
like to be in this Brotherhood you must
adhere to these five principles Andrew
has 41 tenants I don't know him by heart
he wrote them right after he went to
jail you can easily find him online and
uh is that an active part of the core
group of guys how many of you are there
in like the tight tight Circle
four five okay so do you guys live by
those things obviously not sorry there's
not there's not a CREDO there right but
I'll tell you another thing about Andrew
that people don't know
he has friends
that are from 20 years ago never became
you know super famous or rich or
anything like that he still flies them
over to spend time boxing and training
together
you'll see you'll see them sometimes and
take confidential these are very normal
guys that he's had 20-year relationships
that he refuses to turn his back on
you know is there a Creed amongst our
group of friends
the obvious stuff you know do what you
say you're gonna do show up and train
you know be ruthlessly loyal around the
subject of women
and money I believe you learn a lot
about a person by just women and money
alone and I don't particularly like to
have friends that are not an abundance
of either
because if they find themselves in a
desperate situation they will fall to
their desperation and so we try our best
to keep men around us that at least have
done the work and the ethics to put
themselves in a position to have a
little bit of money in in women or
there's a relationship that's so old you
know nobody would ever snake you and so
the group has that
we haven't written them down there's not
a CREDO well I don't think we're getting
like group tattoos or anything
so I don't know why not yeah uh okay
talk to me about the frame like what
does it mean to have a frame hold a
frame
yeah I believe it's a man's job to be a
leader and I think you should leave with
conviction and I think it's not a
popular thing to say but I think it's
overwhelmingly true that one women would
rather a man come in be strong be the
rock that all of her emotional waves
crash into because his face that women
are more emotional than men I don't
believe that men should show a lot of
emotion I do think it's okay at times if
they if they do but I think overdoing
that especially with your partner is not
a good idea as a man I believe that men
should open doors I believe they should
pay every tab I believe they should make
the shot call the shots in the household
and make all the business decisions
it's when a man has not put himself in a
position to get that respect and Trust
from a woman that that all falls down
so a lot of men they want that respect
they want to be the leader they want to
do all you know do the things that you
know a leader should get but then in
turn they oftentimes are not doing the
right things to deserve that credit from
the woman and so she doesn't give that
to him and for that reason I think a lot
of situations
fail when the man doesn't show up the
way that he should but I think ideally a
man should not only be strong enough to
make all decisions but even protect her
from things that are not going to be
ideal for the relationship like having a
crazy social media with your ass and
titties everywhere
not popular but true
okay so what does it mean to hold the
frame
women are going to naturally what they
call [ __ ] test right
to test you to see how confident you are
have you ever heard of a [ __ ] test I
haven't no really I'm so outside of this
world but I find it absolutely
fascinating yeah so it is a real thing
like a girl might might here's one
that's going to piss some people off
let's do this
um
let's say your girlfriend comes to me
and she's like hey baby I want to go on
a girls trip no
no you got a problem with that right you
normally you would me yeah oh yeah I
would never say no I don't even
understand the impulse yet so no is why
would I put my girl in a club somewhere
all dolled up in a dress in high heels
with a bunch of other single women so
guys can come hit on her
it's not distrust it's not insecurity
it's just a foolish move
but it's only foolish if you think she
actually might cave unless you're
worried about getting hurt unless you're
worried about her getting assaulted no
why would you put her in that
circumstance why wouldn't you protect
her from that circumstance doesn't she
want to know that you're territorial
over her and you would want to protect
that at all right so don't women deeply
deeply want you to feel for them in that
way no
well we have to we have to tease things
apart because there are averages and so
yes I think a lot of women do but I
think if they're in that phase there
isn't the maturity to the relationship
that I think is the Great Joy so here
was this is how I came into
um my marriage so I was very bad with
women when I was young and I I would not
figuratively I would literally show up
with flowers in a poem custom written
for that girl on the first date
there was one girl I wrote a very clever
poem if I do say so myself just to get
the first date which PS I did not get
and so yeah no [ __ ] yeah yeah oh this is
all terrible I want everyone to
understand this is did not work so long
story short I finally cracked the code
and I figure out what you have to do and
then suddenly getting women was very
easy and so I was like okay cool this is
a game there's psychological principles
at play if you understand the
psychological principles then you can
position things well and you can present
yourself in a certain way and what we
would call hold the frame and so once I
learned how to do that very very easy uh
and then what I learned though was okay
what I resonate with is I want to share
my life with somebody and there's a
great story about you to the band you
two started out as a punk rock band and
evolved over the years but their whole
thing was we're gonna find out what it
looks like when a band stays together
for their entire career and so Bono
could have broken off and done his own
thing maybe the edge could have gone off
and done his own thing but they said no
that's not the game we're playing the
game we're playing is what does it look
like when a band stays together for 30
years and so we all got to watch that
play out and so when I proposed to Lisa
my now wife
um I was like I want to share this life
with you and I want to grow with you
build things with you like I want to do
all of this with you and on our first
anniversary I gave her a 50th
anniversary card and I said I'm gonna
earn this and one day this will be true
and our our whole life has been
predicated around that and being honest
and I said look I'm always going to want
to sleep with other women don't be
paranoid about it because I'm committed
to you and so I won't sleep with other
women but I don't ever want you to feel
insecure because I'm saying dumb [ __ ]
like oh I only have eyes for you because
you're going to know better than that
and I don't need you to pretend that you
don't find other people attractive what
I need to know is that despite the fact
that you find other people attractive
despite the fact that there will be
times where I'm up and times where I'm
down I need to know when I'm down that
you have so much belief in me that you
would never cheat that that would be
disloyal and speaking of Creeds that you
would just never violate the the promise
that we're making to each other and so
over you do know that that's [ __ ]
right no it's it is uh it is let me tell
you why it's [ __ ] please the only
reason it's [ __ ] is because you
actually achieved everything you set out
to achieve you could have made that
Creed all day long but if you would not
have become Tom belyou and you would
have been in a position or put her in a
position where she didn't respect you
anymore she would have cheated on your
ass and that Creed would have been out
the window you were a winner and for
that reason she stayed because I don't
want to mix the truth to young men about
what it is it's not your love story or
poem it's the fact that you became who
you are as a man
let me ask you how many years do you
think I made her poor before I made her
even
she agreed she believed in you the whole
time yes because for sure that's very
different horses yes
and she saw in you what was always
inevitable to become true and that you
would win okay but then it isn't about
me ultimately accomplishing it it's
about her believing in me and you should
always be taking her on that ride it's
your job but I understand so this all
started with would I let her go on the
girls trip and do I think that it's
foolish so we have created this packed
marriage I mean for us it was very
traditional so it was we had vows and we
took those vows seriously and we talked
a lot about what they meant and we don't
even make jokes about divorce we call it
the d word I don't tease her like oh do
that you don't [ __ ] around with that
yeah you don't put it in in
Consciousness so we do all kinds of
things like that to protect it talk
about how we want to share our life
build our life together we do things
like Hey we're founding this company and
it's going to be 50 50 and I care not
about like I've said things like
um because I really believe it hey if I
ever found out you were cheating on me
it's fine you you have earned your half
I will give you my half I'll never speak
to you again but take your half and go
I'm not going to fight you no you put
that in reality and not the d word yeah
because what I want her to understand is
this is when I'm when I'm talking about
that I need her to understand I wouldn't
be who I am if you hadn't helped me
become this person and I recognize your
contributions there was a moment your
fans are going to hate this uh I'm not a
crier
there are times where I'm like I
actually would feel better if I could
cry but I just can't cry and there was
one time I was [ __ ] ugly crying
because this was before the internet
came along and I was just starting to be
really successful and I think it was
tied to when I got put on a magazine
cover
and I was like the world is Never Gonna
know that I wouldn't be who I am without
you and that I don't need I literally
don't know who I would be if I hadn't
met her I met her when I was 24. and so
I was 24 I was broke I was stupid I was
I had big Ambitions and she believed in
me she looked at the horse and she saw
something but at the time I was not
going anywhere useful and so it really
was
um her having the belief like you said
but me knowing that she had gone for a
long time helping turn me into something
and I became that thing and she was
never going to get recognized for it and
that was really heartbreaking now she's
ended up getting her fair share of
credit and stepping out in front of the
camera do you think it was really
important to her
um
no yeah exactly
I just wanted her to be recognized what
exactly what she'd done
you were working really hard she was
supporting you I I think I honestly
genuinely think that your relationship
from what I can tell with your wife is
beautiful
I just simply disagree with how you got
there
okay so give me how do you think we got
there like you were sitting there crying
because you believed that she wanted
some kind of credit for all this work
that you had done while she has
supported you now I was crying because I
was so grateful and I didn't think she
would ever get the credit not that she
wanted it
but if she didn't want the credit don't
you think she was fulfilled already and
what she had done in supporting you yeah
and that was probably part of why it was
so uh uh actually no mixed in that was
by then I knew that she was very unhappy
being a stay-at-home wife
really yeah just the and she didn't want
to have children she did in the
beginning and did not around that time
yeah what do you think drove that
I think it's complex so I want people to
hear me I am walking a dangerous path
that I do not recommend to people and I
think the default path should be
children
I think the default path should be
marriage and children but you have to
figure out how to manage relationships
very difficult especially if you have
kids so I am I like I thank you I thank
people very sincerely for having
children I'm very grateful and I think
it is what most people should do for a
whole host of reasons uh so when she
said she didn't want to have kids I was
like you need to really think about this
because I will get my meaning and
purpose from building businesses and I'm
while I think it's a higher risk path I
love it and so far have not found myself
saying I want kids enough that I want to
have them now so my what I've always
said about kids is I really want kids
and I do
the only thing I want more that I want
to have kids is to not have kids now
I've big brother and I know it's not the
same it's a very small fraction but I've
big brother did enough to know what it's
like to have somebody look up to you to
have somebody who's like you're shaping
me into an adult it is a deeply
meaningful relationship even at that
level so I can only imagine when it's
your own progeny so I'm as a as somebody
who doesn't have kids I'm about as aware
as you're going to get the power of
having children but I always just didn't
want them a little bit more than I
wanted them and so I was honest with
myself and I said you're going to regret
this decision when you're 80. once I'm
done being a player and a coach I will
regret that I don't have kids I will
regret that they don't live beyond me
and I know that when I'm on my death but
I'll be like man that really sucks now I
can give a whole master class on it's
all about controlling your own frame
it's not controlling a frame isn't just
about other people it's how do I think
about myself and my own choices and so I
know a part of me will be very sad part
of me sad today that I don't have kids
but it's very easy for me to frame what
I'm doing and the choices that I'm
making in a way that make me feel very
good about myself what stops you from
reframing it for yourself if you know
this is to have kids yeah I could yeah
but why don't you because I don't have
anything that compels me to make that
change I don't think that my life would
be better I think it would be safer but
not better
you don't think that your kids will add
to your life I think they would but they
will also take something away there's no
way there are only trade-offs okay yeah
but choices would be one freedom
how I spend my time I know that I would
have a very deep sense of obligation to
my kids which is beautiful I love that
about me I I am I love that about me the
same way that I feel a deep sense of
obligation to all the employees that
counted me to make wise decisions so
they can pay their rent and raise their
kids uh I love that about me I love that
I feel what would you say and by the way
I do not agree with this yeah but what
do you say to the people that would say
that that's selfish I don't mind at all
sure
yeah I I I won't say that I don't care
about what other people think but I
don't steer by what other people think I
think we are all the shout and the echo
so the shout is what you do and what you
say and the echo is what people think
about it right and it's like yeah I hear
that coming back and if it's brutal
enough I saw one of your posts you said
I'd look at when people throw hate at me
I look at that to see if there's
anything valid so I'm the same I do
something negative comes back first is
there truth in it yeah it's the people
that don't look at all
they're insecure yeah they're insecure
yeah I like to look at it and really try
to find truth but yeah because it will
make you better it will make you more
effective it will make you more powerful
so I will I do and believe that which
moves me towards my goals so
um I'm very honest that life is
trade-offs now I was far more worried
about my wife not having kids as you
should that's where it to me
surprisingly she doesn't have that urge
she has the urge she feels similar to me
in that she wants kids but she wants to
not have kids more but I think being a
woman it's inevitable that that pull
will be much harder for her so we ran a
bunch of thought experiments that will
only dampen whatever regret she's gonna
have so much and we just said what's
this going to look like when you're no
longer interested in being an
entrepreneur and you're tired and you
don't have grandkids and you're looking
around to your friends and they do have
grandkids how are you going to build
meaning and purpose in your life because
kids to me are two things they are a
sense of I live on which I do not under
underestimate and they are a sense of
meaning and purpose I have done
something with my life that mattered and
if you have kids and you raise them well
you will feel that and if you don't
you're misframing it unless you were
abusive or horrible or something so you
get that and nature has given you that
Nature's built that in and so it's like
I really caution people against nature
has built us up you've got a ready-made
sense of meaning and purpose and if you
if you shun that it's a very high risk
game
so anyway I we have walked into this
with our eyes wide open the thing that
really scares me for my wife is if I die
and she doesn't have kids and that was
always her Terror she was like if
something happens to you and I don't
have kids I was like you have to really
think about that and so because my whole
thing was if you want kids we'll have
kids but I'm not going to wake up in the
middle of the night to take care of them
I'm building business I'm slaying
dragons right that's why I see it and I
don't
I don't wake up for the kids no no
and so upon reflection I believe in
generals completely also I have no
problem even gender roles yeah gender
roles I have no problem with women in
business at all
but
when it comes to a household
I believe that the happiest people do
have gender roles in place dude I want
to say you're crazy but I agree yeah I
know and it's not even it's super
unpopular to say and it blows my mind
this that it said that way women have
like I would not take my children to a
male babysitter they're not wired to
nurture and love those kids in the same
way that a woman is I would say by
default the law of averages says that it
will end up being a woman yeah
everything in terms of nurturing ability
to care for I'm sure there are guys out
there that are amazing it's just it's
going to be a small [ __ ] number right
very small and I feel like I'm loving my
children every day when I'm working
endlessly to create a better life for
them in a future one of my biggest goals
in life is to have something set up
when I'm gone I have this vision of a
gentleman walking in in a suit all my
children are sitting around a table
and he starts to
unload what I set up for them and my
kids are just sitting there saying he
did what
and he put it in this and it's a trust
and we don't pay
dad's a man you know and I'm not there
anymore
and they knew I took care of them fully
and they knew that when I was gone and I
was you know on the road or when I was
stressed out or if I was sitting at the
dinner table quiet that I was fighting
those battles for them and I left it all
to them and there's a legacy there
so
um
I mostly get encouragement and
motivation from envisioning who I'll be
it never comes from anger it never comes
from competing really
and that particular moment is a moment
that I'll never live to see but I I know
for a fact it'll be real and it inspires
me to work for those little girls
every day and to
you know make sure that I'm setting up
their reality in a way that benefits
because I was here
you know and a guy like you not having
a child
is
um
it's interesting to me because there's
so much there's so much you would be
able to give them
you know and I know that you've given
that to the world
but in other ways I can't imagine how
you'd give to that kid
you know what I'm saying and I mean that
super respectfully no you would be a
killer [ __ ] dad very kind yeah I'm
sure
I'm not being nice to you no like I
genuinely believe that like the kid
would end up being a guru maybe I mean
that that's a roll of the dice Well Guru
but one of the things that haunts me and
in fact I want to ask you so you're
wealthy you're very successful your kids
are going to struggle to get out from
under your Shadow already so what do you
do to make sure that money doesn't break
them
yeah that's a great question I think I'm
gonna face that mostly as it comes to me
I I do want to put my kids in a position
to be
affluent with the right people in their
life networking wise
they won't be able to get out of hard
work I suspect they will work for the
family business if they choose not to I
would like to see them marry off
to somebody and go help that gentleman
build and I'm talking about my girls
people ask me all the time was like what
are you going to do if your daughter's
married guy like you I [ __ ] hope so
I really do because he'll be strong
enough to allow her to let go and be sad
inside his frame because she believes in
him and he's strong just much like your
wife believed in you and your strength I
would want that for my little girls or
they would work for me I think one of
their bigger issues is going to be
finding a man that I don't absolutely
beat in a landslide in every category I
think that's going to be their problem
and that's a problem I like them having
so uh
in regards to not spoiling them too much
I don't I don't think it's completely
possible but I do think that giving them
a firm Taste of reality and what the
world actually looks like outside of
their world like making them visit the
real estate properties making them work
in the business those are those are
obvious things and then slapping my own
hand and creating the frame of myself to
make sure I don't spoil them too badly
which will be hard
I bet it's gonna be super hard I already
bought
already bought Emory uh I I told you I
bought that Huracan Evo well I bought
her one that she can get in and I get to
drive her around in it so I'm already
kind of spoiling her a little bit but uh
[ __ ] she's got a bigger closet than I
ever had growing up
you know she spoiled and Eva is uh is
not quite old enough to be super spoiled
yet but give her time give her a little
time yeah do you have an ideal number of
kids you want to have I don't man and
also just to clarify
I don't know that I'll ever have another
wife
you know I love my family I really
really care your wife
I try I try not to let me tell you why I
try not to say it on YouTube or anything
like that is because I don't believe in
bringing the state into my business and
I feel like if I were to call her my
wife a whole lot it would just be used
against me interesting you know what I'm
saying but that's probably not true
um plus there's some you know we have
some things in place but uh yeah she's
my wife man I love that girl bro
completely completely
there's some party though that still is
I don't know what word you're going to
accept so feed me the word I'm going to
give you a starter word but is tense
that whether it's I don't want to call
her wife too much because it can be used
against me like literally Lisa what what
would you like I will write everything
down that could be read in court I'll
lit whatever and to me that's the point
like I don't know why people stay in a
relationship if they don't feel that way
women are a sacrifice my wife is a pain
in my ass and so I'm like uh if you
weren't the most amazing creature I've
ever encountered in my life I would
never put up with just having to deal
with what somebody else wants like
everything is everything is a compromise
when you're in a relationship and I'm
sure she feels exactly the same way well
maybe that's just people affecting
affecting my viewpoint on the subject
she's not she's not a thorn in my side
at all
and um I don't have any major concern
that I'm going to have legal issues with
her I will tell you a large part of my
childhood revolved around that we did 12
custody courts my mom tweeted cheated
twice they're gonna put us in a foster
home there's a lot of violence and
things going on my mom
she even made a YouTube channel when I
first started really yeah like trying to
like talk [ __ ] and she really about you
oh yeah she's sick Bro like she's not a
bad person she's just sick man none of
her family can talk to her she should
speak the [ __ ] out of us like physically
she's a strong woman a lot of my
genetics actually come from my mother
she was built like Amazon anyway
I say all that to say that I saw a lot
of what happens to a man when he gets
wrecked in a divorce my dad got charged
with everything from battering her
sexual molestation of us they were
sending us to Child therapy all these
things I don't feel like I have Trauma
from it
I feel like I'm a grown man that can
look back at and say those things
happened what can I learn from it what
could my dad have done differently maybe
that he didn't even have the information
and know he could have done because back
then all you had was Brimstone in the
Bible right and that's what he had saw
work with his dad his dad came home from
World War II or the I guess World War
one he was going to World War II he
built a house he formed a bunch of
cotton in Oxford Mississippi he had one
wife his whole life she would bring tea
and cook three meals a day the structure
worked and I see that that worked and my
Dad tried it
and my mom would you know go seeking
other men hypergamy
in church mind you that's rough yeah and
and then he was taken through this
ringer of false allegations and he
fought his ass off and fought his ass
off and fought his ass off
to keep us in his life
and I don't know if you saw it but I
just paid his house off
congratulations yeah it's probably one
of the biggest achievements of my life
man and uh
and if anything I just have a very
realistic understanding of how the court
system and everything is set up but it
doesn't change my feelings for that
woman
she's changed her name she's a big ass
ring big ass house babies Nanny the
whole thing
do you live in the house with her and
she likes blondes that does not hurt
uh-huh that does not hurt
when I'm there I have two houses
in Louisiana and yeah well yeah so I
have two houses that I keep open the
YouTube Team comes and they stay in the
in the old house and then I stay in the
big house with the nanny the kids and
the wife and a lot of times
mother-in-law's there and I have people
coming over and things like I've never
said any of this online actually but I
have the most fulfilling family life
I could ever imagine or dream of I get
photos like this podcast my little girls
will watch this this will be playing in
the living room
there's no lies
even even I know my mother-in-law sees
the things I say
but you know what
there's a lot of respect between all of
us there's a lot of spending time
together and having real conversations
that have depth to them
there's a lot of trust there and I lead
the family and the businesses
with conviction and I and I love all my
people and I love my family and they
know that and I can be
um
an [ __ ] if I need to but most often I
never even need to
and uh I really really have a fulfilled
life in that particular area man my
family life is much better than anything
you'll ever see online
why do you think people have a hard time
believing that
because they're not seeing all of me
you know and a lot of you don't want
them to see oh I think a lot of it is my
fault
when I for I didn't expect a comment
online
I met a group of guys I'd always kind of
wanted to what man doesn't want to have
a big podcast especially like nowadays
right but I wouldn't let myself because
I wasn't a liquid millionaire yet so on
my whole 20s I remember watching I would
watch all this stuff I've watched you
for years I knew who you were with like
when when Thomas sent me the message
like yo impact Theory called I'm like
[ __ ] I was super excited man and I'm
honored to be here
but I kind of I knew I'd wanted to but I
wasn't in that place in my life where I
felt like I completed all the boxes I
set out to check I know the feeling very
well yeah and so I didn't and also
learned from that that the the goals
that I made in my 20s I was not yet
qualified to make
for my 30s you know so when I got to 30
and I wasn't where I wanted to be
you know I felt like I'd have failed but
what I had forgotten is that the goal
that I had said I wasn't qualified to
make it 24 right
and uh
I met Sterling Cooper and I met Andrew
interesting and now I was thinking about
you and I even started a channel
and right about the time I did is when
Andrew
texted me he's like yo we were in Miami
and he said uh
come eat dinner with me so I did and
he's like dude I really believe in you I
know you don't have any followers but I
believe that you will because you have
everything it takes and you built a real
business in the real world you'll Garner
a lot of respect from people online for
sure you know you're building still
buildings All Over America like you're
building a country it's a real business
why don't you you see what I've done
you feel how you feel about the war room
and I love the War Room
why don't you just help me so we can
help as many people as possible
handshake done and I never look back
I'll never start a group
I'll never
you know go out and try to make a war
room or anything like that
um
but that's how it got started and then
it just grew and grew and grew to where
it is now and um
I get a lot of support from her in that
area
and I get a lot of support from my
family and the people that run my
businesses and and everything so it was
one of the best decisions I've ever made
I think honestly it's very fulfilling
you know I love that I love that you're
I love the Loyalty I love doing things
with friends I love understanding hey I
can be bigger as a part of this and win
a championship than if I try to do it on
my own and I didn't answer you though
the reason I had not shown it
is because I thought that
I would want to protect it in some way
but what I came to grow to learn in this
time is that
people are not seeing the side of me
that laughs all the time
they're not seeing the side of me that
love people
they're only seeing this rigid side
where I'm arguing with some girl that
has an only fans account
and that could not be further from who I
actually am in real life
and one thing I did learn from Andrew is
that I won't make the mistake
of not showing that other side of me
no I'm not saying he's wrong but I am
saying that there's this other great
side of myself and him and that others
should see so they understand
the full you know wholeness of who we
are as people because
I honestly think I'm a really really
really good dad in fact I know I am and
uh
I expect that I'm going to show that
more because just showing a little bit
is more of a lie from Omission than is
given the real truth so yeah I mean I
look I I get the strategy of building a
Persona and then sticking to it
but one I think the people that build a
Persona they end up helping people less
than they think because that person is
going to test their Persona against the
real world and finds that it comes up
wanting
uh and when you are your whole self it's
harder to package I know from experience
uh but at the same time you'll feel good
about it you'll have a lot more staying
power because you know people know who
you are and as you evolve you can evolve
things you're not you don't have to
suddenly play a new character it's just
you're really evolving in real time and
that's that I think that will play out a
lot better
speaking of the holistic version of you
what makes you good at business
it's my leadership like in the beginning
I was
I was really big-hearted right
and I wanted to spend time with the guys
and I wanted to help them set up like
you know Insurance things where they
could get wealthy from it and uh how did
you even get your business started like
you're a zero to one story those are the
most brutal you do not come from money
you don't come from an obvious town that
would end up sparking a very successful
entrepreneur yeah certainly not I mean I
just I don't I would not even know where
to start if I had to make a business out
of putting up steel buildings so how do
you take that from idea to actually
having a multi-million dollar business
so I'll give you I guess I can give you
a life path of it you know I first had
to get a job somehow it's 2009. I've
told the story many times but basically
I went to the same place so many times
the boss finally saw me
and instead of getting mad at me he
liked me four
interrupting his office so much saying
give me a job yep and so he gave me a
job and I saved the money up to apply
for my contractor's license test my
stepfather
had done metal buildings and backyards
and uh he also had worked for this
company and we had a house fire
we actually had two house fires because
somebody in our house knew how Insurance
worked we spoke about her
um and I remember going to this guy's
house and being like this dude puts up
metal bills he had a basketball court in
his house you know and uh he wasn't like
bawling like this house but like you
could tell like you go from like a
shitty neighborhood to his neighborhood
there was a there was a dissonance
between the two right and I'm in like
seventh grade at this point I'm like
cool
and then in my town in Baton Rouge
um you ever seen the movie October Skies
no but I've heard you talk about it yeah
so my October Skies instead of going to
the Cold Mill I didn't want to work in
the plants
and so I'm looking at my situation I'm
like well I'm not doing that good in
school I was smart you know I could make
good grades but I was super uninterested
and um
I was like okay what do I need to do to
get out of here
well Sports so I play baseball football
baseball and basketball all the way to
my junior year and I said the only full
ride here is football
at this time so I've heard you talk
about football is very transactional you
end up getting your scholarship but are
you already like okay I'm going to get
rich here's my life path I'm going to
start a business that's what I was
leading to actually we were going to
play Arkansas I don't know if you follow
college football at all but they were
good at the time it was a guy named
Derek McFadden blah blah I read Rich
that Poor Dad
and I told my roommate that night a guy
named Zig Zachary
I said man I'm gonna own a business one
day and he goes all right yeah cool
funny enough he texted me just last week
I've not talked to him in like 15 years
and he's like I see you online all the
time bro you did it but
um I finished College there's no jobs I
beat on that guy's door until he finally
gives me a job
I went to the bank got him to Auto draft
all the money out of the account so I
could live poor save the money up okay
so whoa whoa whoa brilliant decision so
this is like the breaking point where
first of all most people don't think of
the idea they don't allow themselves to
believe they can do it you do that's
important step number one important step
number two and I've heard you talk about
this you always rush past it and I don't
know why so this the willingness to be
poor this is why I'm always trying to
convince people like in the beginning do
not try to optimize for money yeah try
to optimize for the knowledge in this
case getting the loan so that you can do
your thing but optimize for that thing
that's going to let you set up the
business yeah and so you lived super
poor yeah very much you Auto drafted how
much out of here yeah it was like 80 90
of my check so I was the job ended up
being actually in New Orleans with the
guy with the company I went with I
actually ended up getting offered two
jobs and you were just like what is the
least I can live on yeah so I had like a
750 a month rent
and I was making 75 a day in per diem so
I would mostly live off per diem it was
this little hole in the wall Magazine
Street New Orleans and so I got to
experience the city a bit but then I'd
drive out to this big Levy job and I was
able to Auto draft that money to get to
ten thousand dollars in the bank account
I took that bank statement to the
contractor's licensing board in Baton
Rouge then I moved the money and then
went and applied for my residential at
the same time I'm not sure if I had to
but I didn't want to risk it
and uh how did you figure out all the
things you had to do to start the
company oh I drove to the contractor's
licensing board and went in person and
just asked the lady behind the desk dude
that's so there's a sweet little black
lady bro she helped me through the whole
thing dude people will always help like
it's crazy people just never ask they
don't ask man like like out of out of a
whole year I might have been the only
person that walked in and asked you know
and I think that you super have that
power when you're a young man
you know like if you're starting a
business and you start asking people for
help bro I had some kids come to my
house in Louisiana the other day to
pressure wash and I was just so
impressed that they were beating on
doors in a country club that I'm like
whatever the price is do it you know
it's hard not to pool for ambition you
know especially being American like I
feel like this whole country was built
on that
and so that's what I did
and I started doing buildings and
backyards
uh
it was really hard in the beginning
you know because
a lot of the guys that I I was I was
trying to be the project manager
the
the guy begging for money at the bank
the bookkeeper
you know the guy that showed up when
somebody got too drunk so you quickly
realized if I'm going to scale this I
have to scale my team
I ended up running it no actually I
ended up running into e-myth
um
I had him on the show yeah Gerber nice
um I ended up running into e-myth and so
I started to build systems and I started
to get in a position where I looked big
on paper
and so instead of doing backyard
buildings
I started sending quotes for doing much
much larger buildings to General what
made you look big on paper and was that
strategic
yes so it was strategic because
it was really just me and my pickup
truck
in like four or five guys who were see
like definitely on paper I can make
myself look different than this I can
yeah I can look better on paper
and and was that letterhead and it
references letterhead I got my hands on
somebody else's bid template
which is like five six pages will not do
this you must clean the anchor bolts I
will have a hundred foot of
circumference around the slab like it
just looked really good right their
license number was on the bottom so I
just did all my MacBook into Starbucks
right
and then and then oh [ __ ] job time so go
run to the job you know Drive their
truck tools
but I knew that doing that and having
insurance and I paid somebody to do a
website really I reinvested in the
business a lot the problem I would run
into is the actual Manpower itself
and that's when it got you know really
really hard because you know you'd have
multiple buildings going on the same
time we'd go to bigger buildings and
these GCS don't play
like you're swimming with sharks in
construction because they have a
schedule you better hit it and you
better be safe
and your men better not make a mistake
and your men don't even want to be there
a lot of the time there's there's yeah
so it's it's that and and um there's
nothing there's no punches pulled
it's a very legal game you know they
will hit you with liquidated damages
very quickly which is basically three
thousand dollars a day you missed the
schedule especially on school projects
and things like that and then you go to
put the roof on sorry the kids are
testing you have to come back tomorrow
but what about my equipment that's
sitting here on rent like there's all
these things right the business is
difficult I'll never forget my first
line of credit was fifteen thousand
dollars
so I can make my 2500 payrolls but I
eventually got in a position where I'd
had enough momentum I'd hired and fired
enough people that enough people had
stuck
and at that point I was very rigid
because I just been lied to so much so
much
and it finally after the systems were
there and I hired the right people and I
had some bonus structures in place and
that lady I told you about Renee her
name's Renee uh love you Renee
she came in and it was almost like
that exercise you see on YouTube of the
two people dancing in the field
and they see the two people dancing in
the field and then all of a sudden it's
five people then it's ten people and
then it's 20 people
that woman believing in me
and getting behind me and helping me
and we set up some really good systems
around recruiting I had already built
them but she helped me get them
implemented uh
from there about five or six years ago
got us to the point where it was just a
moon shot we were just able to duplicate
it duplicate it duplicate it duplicate
IT project process pre-construction
contract checklist retainage how we pay
people like everything it's like
somebody finally got behind the systems
I had built when I had e-myth
and I knew that I could actually trust
some people and for that that guard that
I had up around you can't trust anybody
because with good reason I was getting
lied to left and right I was buying my
own tools at the pawn shop like it was
[ __ ] uh
we finally created a culture where now
my men will kick other guys off the job
if they're not working
and I mean there's many things that
happened I had a guy I didn't know this
but he got he'd give me some paperwork
that was wrong and he wasn't supposed to
be here and he got picked up ice oof yep
and I paid 25 Grand to keep him here and
I'm obligated to him with the government
wow but
you don't think that gets around I was
gonna say
you don't think there's gonna be loyalty
there you know
so
it's one of those things where
I had to take some punches and when we
came out on the other side
I was able to trust people
um
in a way that I knew that I could
actually let them do their job and then
we could talk about you know and of
course we have daily reports and
everything we're constantly plotting and
planning but then Andrew and Tristan
brought that out of me even more
like because that's what you originally
asked me and I just think it's because
how many years ago was this
what that you started working with them
oh it's been like three years
yeah so are you saying that your
business took a big turn when you met
them no I was already making a bunch of
money my life was great so what were the
key things that you started piecing
together because so I teach an
entrepreneurship class yeah and I find
it is very difficult to actually teach
people what they need to do because the
real thing I'll be interested to see if
you agree with this here's what a I know
you cringe CEO but here's what a CEO has
to do I hate it you have to be good at
solving novel problems a problem not
only have you not seen before nobody's
seen before and you have to be able to
go in and figure it out whether it's ice
or it's uh the sheet metal isn't
connecting the way it's supposed to or
you've got everything on rent and the
school is pushing back whatever you have
to be able to figure out all those
problems when there's nobody else to ask
and so how do you teach somebody to be
good at that so I'm very curious what
were some of those key moments so you
learned okay I've got to be able to
trust my employees you read e-myth and
you realize I've got to have a system I
can't work in my business I have to work
on it you start building out charts and
data all the checklists how did you
figure out what data to look at
yeah so I got a bunch of mentors I
joined the metal building contractors
Directors Association I was I was a
board member at a very early age I'm
pretty sure I was the youngest board
member ever
um and I got a lot of that information
from them and then everything else was
really just a mistake we had made
that it might as well go on this
checklist now because I don't ever want
to pay for it again and that's generally
how I am it's like if a guy makes a
mistake and I know there's intent there
an intent is very important to me
um that I'm okay with it it's the guy
that skips it on the checklist that's
going to get fired right and as far as
being a CEO
I believe the number one driving factor
for a CEO to be successful in my opinion
is to be a playmaker
because you're right he's working on the
business and there's new problems that
are attacking the business that become
threat to a business and he's got to be
able to on the hip while the plane is in
the air put the duct tape on the wing
and figure out a way to get to a
different level a new altitude and I was
very very good at that and and maybe
maybe it's because I'm a bad add and I
like to hyper focus and I'm very good in
chaos you know
I'm not very good at being organized but
if you create a storm I'm really good in
that and so for me it just made sense
it never even felt like I was reading
there's no book I read to do that and I
think people either have that or they
don't I constantly tell Renee I'm like
man
if we could just figure out a way to
figure out if somebody can think for
themselves or not
we will have the biggest Still Company
in the history of construction but it's
really hard to do yeah it's really
really hard to do and uh
and I think I had that particular gift
naturally
and I had the other gift of bringing
people together and creating trust and
having bonds with them but I wasn't able
to release that part until you know I
had had some people that were willing to
dance to the same Rhythm and rode the
boat in the same direction and that
caught on and then caught on like
wildfire in a lot of ways and then
running into Andrew and Tristan I saw
what it was like to truly trust a
brother
something I had never really had I grew
up in a house full of five there's five
kids but we had different dads there was
like seven or eight years apart
they're pretty overweight like there's
not a lot in common so I always felt
like I was really just a black sheep of
my own family
and um
and seeing them have that relationship
has been very
um
very beneficial to me because I've
noticed the more trust that I put into
people especially people that I know
deserve it
the more they don't want to let me down
and I think that's abundantly valuable
in business and it creates a lot of
speed so when we trust each other we can
go fast because I'm not worried about
anybody snaking me you're still in
business or anything like that and they
have that any one of them
could still
all the money from the other one at any
time
and I have some employees that could
wreck me if they wanted to but they
won't
and I think a lot of that is that that
trust that's already there that they
would never want to sabotage
and so um that's
that's kind of how we got there in a
nutshell it's a very short-winded
version but um that also circles back
into the trust question you had yeah I
was going to say it's been an
interesting theme that's cropped up
where can people follow you you can go
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day at justinwinwaller.com I love it
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take care peace
if you're single you are not going to
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start online are not as uh they don't
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staying power