Kind: captions
Language: en
I think it will play out something like
this uh I think that the rate of change
is going to cause a lot of people a lot
of turmoil they will get addicted to
things like social media and the
dopamine
cycle uh their sense of well-being will
be tremendously disrupted by um losing a
sense of purpose to Ai and the reason
that even in the face of all of that I
consider myself wildly optimistic about
the future I am very aggressively a
techno Optimist um is because I don't
think that Evolution and that's probably
is the right word though I don't just
mean it from the sort of standard
perspective of your DNA mutation
mutations accumulate and you get better
I mean technological Evolution societal
Evolution um I don't think it cares
about any one generation and it will
gladly create a period of 15 to years of
just absolute brutality but on the other
side of that will be a generation that
grows up with just oh this is all de rer
and yeah I have a quantum computer in my
pocket and there's Fusion Energy and
it's abundant anything I can imagine
becomes real and the person that I want
to speak to is the person that wants to
map out where this goes and how to ride
this wave well
and to your point and and I don't know
if this is what you meant by power but
to me power is the ability to close your
eyes imagine a world better than this
one open your eyes acquire the skills to
actually make that world come true and
when I think about as a filmmaker all my
entire journey to getting into business
and growing Quest and you know spending
20ish years of my life doing something
sort of to the side of what I really
wanted to do was because I had no idea
how to break into the industry because
making a film was a no budget film was
$100,000 yeah and now it will be if I
were to have kids today my kids would
grow up in a world where you just type
onto your phone the kind of movie in
fact they they're not even going to type
they they would go and the the thing
that they are most likely to want to see
in that moment would exist yes and as
long as we're able to understand our
baser natures and not be a slave to
algorithms but instead go okay I
understand how I have to distance from
this I can't allow myself to get
addicted I want to use these things in
order to whatever experience whatever
thing you want to experience um then I
think that that will be okay and I think
so I'll make a prediction I think you
agree with this I think I've heard you
talk about this but if not let me know
um the reason that the fairy Paradox
isn't a paradox is I don't think people
end up exploring space I think they
explore virtual yes worlds which will be
far more interesting than than anything
that's a slave to physics yeah and
that's that's the reality that I think
that we're moving towards and between
here and there many people will be
broken emotionally and they simply won't
be your competition and so for those
that are paying attention and figuring
out how to leverage this technology you
will create the next wave of opportunity
and you will
Thrive I agree with all of that um and I
do agree that there's going to be a
period of
turbulence over the next 5 to 15
years and that turbulence is going to
come because we're in the midst of a
phase change in
society um you you know you've had
you've had madat on the show right twice
twice yeah and mo has become a dear
friend we're working on a documentary
together around scary smart uh his book
which I commend to everybody and you
know I've had this conversation with on
that on the flip side of AGI we do have
abundance uh defined
as uh access to all the food water
energy Healthcare education that you
want everybody has access to it's
completely democratized and
demonetized
um and I think that's a more peaceful
world as well if you can have what you
want um it's also somewhat of a post
capitalist world but we can talk about
that separately um then you're less
likely to you know blow yourself up in
suicide vest um and uh you know if you
if everybody could be expansive and they
almost in their own light cone sort to
speak instead of having to uh oppress
other people you just go and you you
build and you
create um how do we cross the chasm
though because there's a b so that's the
issue is the chasm over the next 5 to 10
years uh when AI comes in in the near
term and I think we're going to see this
I think you know mo and I have talked
about patient zero being the 2024
presidential
elections right why um because I think
it is you know in 2020 Cambridge
analytica moved the needle and caused A
disruption uh with you know massive
budget in 2024 a kid in their garage
using generative AI can do that
by creating deep fakes deep fakes uh you
know uh creating um uh you know
social uh uh persuasive
arguments um that get traction and are
sway people's thinking whether they're
true or not I mean say something enough
times to somebody in enough ways and
they believe it um and stop asking well
is this true and where to come
from uh it's just you know we have all
of these cognitive
biases um which are fascinating it's a
whole field I I'm fascinated by that our
brain takes all these shortcuts because
we can't process all the information so
I've got a recency cognitive bias I give
more value to something I recently heard
right I've got a familiarity bias I give
if someone dresses and looks like me I
give it more Credence I have a
negativity bias I give much more
Credence in negative information than
positive information and this sort of
stuff saved your life on the savanas of
Africa 100,000 years ago today you can
be manipulated by
them um
so um I think I forgot where I was going
let me ask what what is the thing about
the 2024 election that you're most
afraid of besides who might become
president um well if that's the thing
you're most afraid of I well I think
it's going to become I think we have a
divisiveness coming uh and people are
playing full out and uh it's no longer
gentlemanly
politics uh and I think
um you know part of this is a posttruth
economy where you can't tell whether
something is truthful or not and one of
the things I'm afraid about is more
Civil War than anything else yeah right
um so this next I'm the you know I'm the
person who the glass is not half full
it's overflowing
but yet I do see this period of
turbulence we have a whole population we
have a whole generation having gone
through covid who are now going to step
into a world where they're not getting
the jobs they expected because AI is
coming in and taking a number of those
jobs um so there's going to be youthful
social unrest sounds like Arab Spring
almost over
again uh so how do we how do we navigate
that uh and I've been thinking about
that
um uh my wife Kristen mad do and I have
been you know talking about what do you
teach people how do you navigate
this um and part of it is how do people
survive uh traumatic experiences because
it's going to be traumatic for a lot of
people but yet on the flip side of this
we're going to see
I think tremendous abundance so it is
something we have to navigate but
Humanity navigates these things over and
over again we navigated World War I
World War II uh you know
um do you have any
um rules or insights I'm not sure what
the right moniker to put it on it is
that you want people to understand about
themselves or whatever to help us
navigate this well
I want to have
those I'm not sure I have them formed
yet um I think that the most important
thing is a hopeful having hope about the
future you know if you ask yourself the
question um in the
year
2023 would you rather live here now than
the year
1900 do you have an answer for me yes
for yeah obviously right and I think the
vast
majority uh when I ask people is you
know and people who say the you know the
good old days in 1900 they're fooling
themselves for sure uh you know the
first time they got an infection they'd
be like whoa yes I'm dead uh you know
the streets of any major city stank from
urine and manure from horses y um life
was short and brutish the average age
was 40 you got you were dead from
tuberculosis by then I mean it it was
really brutal and you would you would
work 708 80 hour work weeks and your
kids were working to try and make ends
meet child labor was was prominent back
then so we romanticize the
past um and between the year 1900 and
today uh I did the work I'm right I have
a a book come I'm got a book coming out
in the first half of next year called
age of abundance which is my follow on
to my first book and I looked at what
were the number of uh needless deaths
over this last
century uh and if you look at disease
Warfare and uh
starvation it was about 240 million
people died from those whoa right so you
had 50 million people dying from just uh
the Spanish Flu in World War I and you
look at just I mean it's pretty we lived
a pretty brutal life over the last 123
years 20th century was rough and yet we
got here and so I think ultimately it's
about the human Spirit overcoming these
things and so I am hopeful that the
human spirit will allow us to evolve to
this next level and we are we are
evolving as
Humanity uh we're
evolving technologically and
societally and we are also going to
evolve in other ways we're going to go
from evolution by Darwinism natural
selection to evolution by human
Direction uh and it's moving fast right
this is what Ray kwell talks about in
The
Singularity um that you know in his you
know there's lots of singulari
Singularity comes from physics as a as a
Event Horizon you can't see beyond right
and so we're really close to the AI
Singularity which is I can't tell you
what's going to happen in 5 years let
Alone 10 years with AI it's moving so
incredibly fast and then Ray talks about
the singularity as the convergence of
all of these bio info Nano information
Technologies from AI
biotechnologies
nanotechnologies which is transforming
life at such a rapid how real is
nanotechnology uh I think it is
definitively real um right now today uh
there are people working on elements of
it a a good friend of mine has dropped
off the planet to go invest his wealth
in building
it um what does it do today so so um
today uh we are building molecular
machines versus Atomic
machines so now what is narot technology
in the first place narot technology is
the ability to assemble things atom by
atom so Eric rexler wrote a book in 1986
called engines of Creation in which he
looked at uh nanotechnology and the
ability to the physics and the
energetics of being able to build things
atom by atom um
and his he writes about an idea called
an assembler which is a machine that's
able to grab a silicon atom or an oxygen
atom or an nitrogen atom and bonded and
assemble things and an and a assembler I
could have an assembler in my hand and I
can command it to take atoms from my
skin and manufacture an assembler and
give it to you and now you have one and
you can have that assembler replicate
itself right and these are Atomic
machines and now I can drop it in the
soil and I can say produce me an
electric
Lamborghini and it can go to open source
and find a design for an electric
Lamborghini and then it will take the
atoms out of the soil it'll need energy
energy is abundant in the universe and
it'll say I need a kilogram of titanium
or a kilogram of lithium or whatever the
case might be um and you'll provide that
feed that Raw Feed stock and it will
manufacture this for you now we uh we
know
this um like an oak tree
seed is a uh is
a if you would nanotechnology you take a
seed for an oak tree you plant it it
just does it very slowly it takes the
the atom it has the information set
inside of that that uh Oak seed and it
grabs atoms from the soil and then
energy from the Sun and over time it
builds a Mighty Oak it just does it at a
very slow time frame and so the question
is can you build Atomic machines that
can manufacture things at a much faster
time frame and so um there is nothing
that has been uh uh ever shown that says
it's impossible from the laws of physics
and we're building things now at a
molecular level and in some cases an
atomic level um and I believe you know
Ray Kell's prediction is that it is um
you know in the next 15 years that we'll
see these coming into existence and AI
will become probably our most valued
tool for being able to produce those uh
uh those atomic
assemblers and then it's between Ai and
and nanotechnology it's the universe is
reinvented instantly you're we in a post
capitalist Society at that point what
has value
anymore very few
things yeah so is a post capitalist
Society then do that like God you really
want to go there
um it's uh so a Jeremy riffkin wrote a
book called zero marginal
Society uh which talks about this and
it's a it's a it's a world of massive
abundance where you can have almost
anything you want uh There Is wealth
accumulation for the people who get
started earlier in that but
I I would rather just focus on the
notion that in this world you can have
access to all the food water energy
Healthcare education everything you want
it's
available
um I know listen I can tell you the
world's going to get very strange very
fast yeah my my concern going back to
the nearest term strangeness would be
the 2024 feeman that's his name okay
Richard feeman Professor yes wrote about
this he wrote a in in the I think 1958
he wrote a very famous paper gave a
lecture called there's plenty of room at
the
bottom and he said let's look not at
macro structures and the universe but
let's look at atomic structure and
Richard fan wrote effectively the first
paper on nanotechnology and then Eric
Drexler wrote the first book on the
subject and really explore the physics
of it interesting yeah I don't know a
lot about finan but certainly somebody
that comes up a lot um so the thing that
I'm most concerned about in the
immediate term the 2024 election the
thing that I'm worried about is that
people will do deep fake
videos
and it is distressing to me one how good
they are and two if you know what you're
looking for you can usually tell pretty
quickly what's fake and what's real but
the average person can't doesn't know
and I'll see a video come across my
exfeed that clearly is a deep fake and
people are riled up in the comments as
if it's real and I'm like the barrage of
things that will come will be I have to
tell you a funny story so um you know my
podcast is called
moonshots and uh uh it's been fun
and I focused mostly on interviewing
entrepreneurs who are taking big moon
shots in the world folks who want to you
know do amazing things and their stories
of getting there and the difficulties
and how they overcome them and
such uh about 3 months ago my team
created an avatar of me I saw the
interview and I interviewed myself and I
was blown away I called it Peter bot and
uh it's both visual it looks like me it
moves its arms around it sounds like me
in it's trained on all of my books and
all my
blogs and so um and it's great and it's
I'm really proud of that uh of that
interview and I I I said it did a better
job uh in as a orator and as someone
communicating my ideas and I did it was
it was amazing um and I asked it to talk
about what were the downside scenarios
of deep fakes and tell me a story and it
instantly whipped up a story about a
young female politician who is running
for election and the opponent creates a
deep fake of of her and information gets
out there and despite the fact that it's
not
true the story starts spreading virally
and her ability to overcome it when it's
out of the gate was
impossible and that is problemsome
problematic yep lies go around the world
faster than the truth can put on his
shoes I love that saying oh my God
that's terrifying uh yeah I think that's
exactly what's going to happen you said
something earlier you said people are
playing for real or for Keeps or I
forget the exact phrase you used but
that is true right now people are
playing for all the
marbles so one uh I would like to see
the blockchain used to Watermark somehow
signify this thing is real I think it's
the most important techn ology for that
and it's actually the most important use
of blockchain you know I've always been
like okay besides like Bitcoin and other
cryptocurrencies and so forth what's
blockchain really going to be valuable
for I think it's truth authentication
yes correct this thing is real the
the obviously cryptocurrency the
blockchain has become incredibly
divisive some people are totally for it
and again somebody developing games I'm
like right at the intersection of people
hate or love this technology but if I
could get them to understand it's just a
technology it lets you do a thing yes
and so what is that thing that it lets
you do and what it does is it brings the
laws of physics to the virtual world and
if tomorrow is going to be more virtual
than today and it is then you better
have something that brings some of the
laws of physics like the ability to say
okay I can authenticate this thing so
sitting across from you now I obviously
I don't have any concerns about whether
you're real or not and for a very long
time it was well a picture or a video
that's easy and then it became well a
picture you can fake but video is still
real and now it's okay even video man is
super easy to fake and so that becomes
really disconcerting and if we don't
have a way to Market and say this thing
is real this thing is not and make it
ubiquitous so that when it shows up on
my feed I it it is self-evident this one
is real and this one is fake what the
blue check equivalent right exactly and
so that to me becomes really really
important to your point about the
election being patient zero it's like
this is coming right now right now this
is not a tomorrow problem this is a tway
problem and given who's
running this is going to be a nightmare
and so I'm I am super worried and when
you look at Rio who's up to the last
prediction I saw was 40% likelihood of
Civil War in the US 50% likelihood of a
global World War and so it's like w like
these are terrifying odds
yes uh they
are and it's the human element um that's
at stake here right it's it's humans
doing this to themselves it's corre one
of important things people need to
realize it technology is not inherently
evil it's how humans utilize the
technology and we have so much to live
for and so much potential ahead of us
right infinite uh adjacent
potentials
um you know when I think about one of
why AI is
important it may well be to navigate all
this
stuff I don't know that we humans are
able
to I don't know given all of the
complexities of politics and
social beliefs and
distrusts you know is there is there
some means by which a more brilliant
more capable more gentle AI is able to
step in and support us during this
transition
period uh it's a conversation that's out
there and we're one we're thinking about
we talk about AI being the massive
disruptor can it be the massive
stabilizer as well M being able to
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impact Theory that's grammarly.com
impact Theory let me paint a scenario
for you and as somebody with are you
kids 11 now my kids are 12 12 uh as some
for those listening they two fraternal
twin boys yeah yes somebody that has
kids who this will impact I'll be very
interested to get your take on this so
um I am actively building an artificial
world with artificial characters that as
the technology matures we can't do this
yet but this this will be real very
quickly uh I want to build characters
that you have a real relationship with
that you get to know they get to know
you they react differently to you um
they have memory and when I think
about I think technology has really
created a loneliness epidemic for a lot
of people but ironically I think
technology is going to be the solve for
that loneliness now the question becomes
will it be a better or worse world that
that remains to be seen but with my
optimistic haton
um I think people's best friends
certainly in 10 years from now most
people's best friend will be in AI in 20
years barring just absolute nuclear
catastrophe like for sure biological
weapon that's probably more likely uh
that seems a certainty and that so
people will have friendships that are AI
but they'll also have romantic
relationships and even potentially this
one freaks me out but potentially sexual
relationships with AI
um what do you think about
that um yeah I I think that we're going
to have
uh relationships with AIS that are
intimate because they know you better
than you know
yourself literally literally right I'm
I'm writing I'm I just finished my
chapters on AI in age of for age of
abundance and I'm working on the uh
humanoid robot chapters today and so AIS
will in fact um you're going to give
permission to your AIS to listen to your
phone calls read your emails watch what
you're eating watch what you're doing
you're going to do it openly because
when you give it that permission it can
help you in an amazing fashion right so
it'll remember everyone you've forgotten
so when the person's approaching you
it'll be you know my favorite right your
know the kid's birthday and so forth if
you want to be if you want to you know
follow my diet recommendations it will
for your AR glasses it will tell you
don't eat that or it'll have pre-ordered
for you at the restaurant you'll listen
he'll listen to your conversation so
he'll remind you for everything and
people go I don't want it knowing this
stuff I mean well come on be serious I
mean Alexa is listening in your bedroom
right now Google knows everything you've
searched for Microsoft knows everything
on your email um you know it's Apple
knows all of your you know I mean if you
think you have privacy today don't fool
yourself also here's what I would invite
people to think about imagine because
right now they're thinking about uh Jeff
Bezos knowing what they're up to or
Larry Page knowing what they're up to
that doesn't feel good but if you think
of it this way uh hey Peter you just got
into an argument with your wife and I
see from your aura ring that your blood
pressure has gone up um you know I
obviously you've invited me to listen
into these things here's a perspective
you might want to take like you know if
you remember she's very sensitive to
this and you said that and that you know
might have been what set her off but
look hey I totally understand where
you're coming from I see your position
100% super empathic exactly super
empathic in fact there was a study
recently done it was published in jamama
the Journal of American Medical
Association something like that um in
which in a study
of humans and AIS giving advice to
patients the AIS were like 10 times more
empathic than the
humans in another study looking at
therapists you're more likely to be open
and honest with an AI than a human
therapist because the AI is not going to
judge you y you can also tailor the AI I
don't want you to try to solve the
problem AI I just want you to understand
my feelings yes yeah and it will do as
told so we're we're going to be it's
going to be interesting but I think
you're going to that
AI if it if the AI has access to the
backward-looking cameras on augmented
goggles so it can see where your eyes
are looking and if it sees me staring
for an extra microsc at a logo on your
shirt
that shows curiosity or if it sees my
eye avert from something that I don't
like that is so much information that's
almost subconscious information to you
right if you're looking to buy clothing
and you see it knows from a conversation
you had with a friend that you're
looking to find and you Blazer and so
you you look an extra few seconds at a a
guy's Blazer as they walking by and it
may say um do you like
that and you're like I do I say okay
I'll order it for you right so it's like
knowing the ability for it to
know you more intimately than you are
honestly willing to know yourself is
there and that will build an
extraordinary
relationship yeah and to you know for
For Better or Worse here is the human
psyche at work if you have a friend who
affect ly lives to understand you to
feel your pain your over and over again
yes like you will feel seen there is
something so wonderful about feeling
seen go to that conversation about is
there someone in your life who knows you
intimately and doesn't judge you it's
exactly right yeah it is a level of
connection uh that few people
know and yeah I think we'll also be able
to give the AI a personality so that it
isn't I was thinking about this when you
were talking about
um how we will all become the B Borg
Borg boror and uh Kinder kind Kinder
gentler Borg yes and I was thinking you
know it's interesting because the the
way that we individualize ends up being
a really cool part of the human
experience that my wife has a unique
perspective that she sees the world in a
certain way that is complimentary to the
way that see the world makes her an
incredible partner and I don't want her
to be exactly like I am so I don't want
my AI companion to be a mirror that's
not interesting I want my AI companion
to be that perfectly tailored
complimentary thing to me so that
they're they're siding with me at times
but then other times they're sort of
pulling me along and by the way you can
fracture that AI into five different
personalities all who know you well all
so true wow
is uh sensual and sexual one is funny
God one is funny one is pushing you to
do better one is commiserating for with
you here this is going to get weird it
is going to get weird very weird very
fast I love that you just gave me an
idea for a story that is so interesting
yeah yeah it's
amazing I want to see this world um and
for those who say oh my God slow down I
don't want to see it I like the way it
is right now you know um I hate to say
this there there's no velocity knob on
this technological world there's no
onoff switch it is moving at lightning
speed our job is to steer it to navigate
uh to inspire and guide it right um to
avoid that 40% Civil War 50% World War
all of those those things cuz on the
back end of this I do believe there's a
stabiliz society and a a world of
extraordinary abundance out
there
um I don't think we have a I don't think
we have a choice we're we're
evolving we're evolving very rapidly
um so you know bringing this back I mean
the work that we do at the x prise
foundation is trying to evolve to
guide to create that positive world of
the future and guide us and guide where
entrepreneurs invest their time and
energy in a positive world
so um I mean it's fun we've launched now
$400 million in X prises wow which have
driven uh uh you know on the at least $4
billion dollar in R&D and what we're
trying to do at The X prize is say this
is what's possible in the year 2040 in
energy in health in education
right education is another massively
about to be transformed World I'll come
back in a minute um and saying okay
what's the road map to get there and
what are the breakthroughs we need to
get
there you know so I mentioned earlier of
two 12-year-old boys I don't think the
educational system is getting them ready
for the world that's coming at them what
would they need to be ready uh not the
stuff they're learning in school right
now I've I've set up a meeting I won't
mention my kids go to a very uh uh super
high-end amazing private school in in
Santa
Monica and um but it's based on the
traditional old educational system right
so this past year they learned the 50
capitals of the US states and I'm like
huh why are I mean that's why God
created Google I mean I would rather you
and so I wrote a Blog I put out two
blogs a week and folks can get it at DM
andis.com but I put out a Blog on what
the schools need to be teaching kids
today and part of it was this is what I
think and then I asked you know chat GPT
what we need to teach our kids and it
was very very similar and it's not
memorization right so it's uh it's how
to ask great questions uh it's finding
your passion discovering that and really
diving deep into that whether it's
developing video games or whether it's
you know space which it was for me mean
video games is for my kids um it is
learning how to uh how to uh argue your
point how to be lead how to be a great
leader how to be empathic right these
are some fundamentals maybe it's more
philosophy than anything
else
um and and it's not what we're teaching
our kids to today so what is the world
like my my dad didn't want to buy me a
calculator when I was growing up so I
could learn you know Basics and I ended
up getting a calculator learning how to
program on it but what's the world like
in like inside of five years where
everything is intelligent everything is
imbued with intelligence you're talking
to your refrigerator your car their desk
chair you I don't whatever it is right
intelligence is innate in all physical
things uh and where even more than that
AI has achieved an exceeded human level
intelligence right so this whole concept
of AGI artificial general intelligence
Ray kwell predicted we would have it in
2029 he made that prediction in
1999 30 years early and be guess what
everyone is agreeing on that date wow
his predictions are amazing so elon's
predicting like 2028 I just saw uh
yesterday the the CEO of Nvidia
predicted it's within 5 years which is
29 so what happens when AI human level
AI your best teachers your best
diagnosticians are all
AIS and an AI teacher Knows Your Child's
favorite color movie Star
Sports understands their grasp of
language understands that they're
tactial Learners versus visual versus
auditory where I can enter a virtual
world that has spun up instantly we just
saw a stability AI right uh with stable
diffusion being able to create imagery
instantly from just
typing and I'm learning about Plato or
Socrates or ancient Saudi Arabia or
ancient Egypt and I'm living in a
virtual world for me and I'm walking
around and meeting people and and my in
my inquisitiveness is driving me to want
to learn more
and it's going to be
awesome but it's very different from
today it's very different from today um
one of the things that when you were
talking about the calculator and your
dad wanted to make sure that you were
able to um do the basics in your head do
you consider AI
cheating no no no more than having a
book is cheating compared to what we had
before books which was memorizing
texts right when the priny Press came
out you know this Art of Storytelling
started going
away
um I think AI is is a new
superpower and how we utilize it now the
big challenge is how do we
reconnect purpose in our life
I think what you're jumping to there is
if AI if you love writing which I do I
get up every morning and I write for an
hour it's like my precious time if I can
write for two hours I will before
hitting the gym or before taking the
kids to school so I love writing and I
love uh that experience of like a well-
written
paragraph but what happens I can say Hey
listen write a book called age of
abundance
click yep
I it's like it's kind of empty it's like
okay yeah I published a book along with
the other trillion books that are
published today and it's
meaningless so we're going to have to
reconnect meaning in other
ways so a purpose-driven life is so
critically important how much do you
think the world is going to fragment so
when everybody can publish a book when
everybody can make a video game when
everybody can write their own movie it
becomes less it becomes less valuable um
so what happens then I think we have to
find Value in different ways I think we
have to go after bigger
challenges I do believe a good have
bigger challenges because it will
reaggregate people because it will
reinspection in game universes yeah I
think Ready Player one is is the
inevitable future
yeah so but I'm talking about something
slightly different so here's the thing
as an entrepreneur I think about this a
lot uh you say if you want to make a
billion dollars help a billion people
yeah I don't know that that will be a
thing in the future I think 10 certainly
20 years from now everything is so hyper
individualized that I when I log into
Netflix which of course won't exist but
let's just pretend for it easier for
people to think when I log into Netflix
and I'm scrolling it's going to be
making the movies based on where my eye
lingered for a little bit longer what
the conversation you had an hour ago
right so you're pissed or you're just
had the most amazing day what's your
emotional status right now based upon
your emotional feelings or who you're
with you want to pick a movie that is
going to like relax you or inspire you
or make you laugh whatever the case
might be and this process of like
Googling or randomly walking into
it instead you know the movie will be
teed up and ready to go correct and it
will be so individualized there won't be
this sense of shared experience except
for the fact that I'll create a sense of
shared experience because my 17 AI
personalities will all have experienced
it with me and watched it and have their
take but now I'm not you know going back
to the I as when I'm thinking as an
entrepreneur I started thinking whoa
it's going to be very hard for me to
build a big business because I'm going
to pick it it will inevitably be just a
really deep Niche so I'll make something
for you know to use Kevin Kelly's idea
of a thousand true fans and now
everybody is making something just for a
th true fans because everything is
bifurcated so I'm uh I'm making video
games in an anime style for fans of
vampire fiction that's in rhyming uh
couplets and and and by the way your AI
is producing 10,000 of those
individualized variations for the 10,000
raving subgroups exactly yeah so what do
you think that does to entrepreneurship
in
general
um I wish sh you
um I think we're going from mind to
materialization I think we're going from
deciding you want something to seeing it
instantly
created
um and it's going to it's going to get
there hyper
fast
um you're whatever you desire is going
to be
enabled uh in ways that um are shocking
uh so how do we give value because a lot
of times we give value to the struggle I
I worked really hard yes to find this
thing and I found this Unique Piece of
whatever it is or I worked hard to get
to that point and when the struggle is
gone what does that what does that mean
I think you've already answered the
question I this is why I think Ready
Player one is inevitable So Ready Player
One imagines a world that is dystopian
and so you create a far more enjoyable
reality but I think there's also let's
say that you make a utopian world you
will still end up in Ready Player one
because you're going to need to create a
world that's hard because until you
augment the human mind we will I think
there's a formula that we that evolution
is guaranteed that we will pursue which
is that you must work really hard to
gain a set of skills that matter to you
for whatever reason that allow you to
serve yourself and others and you will
need all of those pieces and you will
pursue anything and everything until you
get those things a slot in place which
is exactly why video games are the allc
consuming medium let me take you on a
short Journey over three billion years
please uh and give some vision of where
things might go on a single
trajectory the Earth forms 4 and a half
billion years ago the early life forms
were somewhere in the 4 billion to 3
billion single
cell uh life forms without a nucleus
these are uh procaryotic life and as
they
Advance uh they become they go from
procaryotic life to eukariotic life that
meant they Incorporated technology into
them mitochondria GG apparatus and
plastic reticulum nuclear uh structures
they became more capable as individual
cells of uh supporting energy and
information um then those procaryotic
cells now more capable individual cells
became
multicellular and then those
multicellular life forms started
differentiating into life forms that
were not just multicellular but
subspecialized cells tissues and
organs and eventually evolved to us so
there's a direct line between these very
simple individual cells and you and I at
40 trillion
cells I think in the same way that we
went from procaryotic to eukariotic Life
by taking technology in mitochondria and
plasmic reticulum nuclear structures and
so forth that allowed us to use energy
and information more effectively we
humans are the equivalent of that early
procaryotic life we're about to take in
technology into
ourselves that's going to allow us to
connect with each other the same way
those individual cells became
multicellular lives and so we're going
to become this meta intelligence where
I'm going to connect with 8 billion
people and my experience of life is no
longer a single
ego I'm now part of a much larger
intelligence a meta intelligence that's
conscious on a brand new level when I
think about the dangers related to Ai
and I'm not going to you know uh I think
AI is the most important tool Humanity
has ever created to solve all of our
biggest problems no doubt period
exclamation point you know Big Bright
letters having said that are there
dangers so the dangers can simply break
down into three different groups one at
one end is AI becomes conscious and
decides to squash us and step on us I
find that very unlikely and a ridiculous
thesis I think people have just seen
this in Hollywood way too much I think
the more intelligent something is uh
honestly the more loving and kind and
pro-life it will be why why would that's
my belief it is my belief I have other
than um I
see Humanity becoming as a whole over
time if you look at the numbers right
and we've looked at this from abundance
uh Warfare reducing massively over time
uh violent death reducing massively over
time uh access to Freedom increasing
over time I mean the numers over a
thousand years not over the last 5 10 20
years but over a thousand years and
that's come from educating each other
with books and transportation connecting
us across the world and globalization
and interdependence all of these things
have led to it's hard to remember this
watching the crisis News Network right
CNN every day that's broadcasting every
murder on the planet to you over and
over and over again it's shaping our
neural Nets our brains are neural Nets
that we teach from example after example
and I don't watch the news right I don't
want some editor telling me about yet
another murderer or crooked politician
got it and it isn't showing us a fair
and balanced view of what's actually
going on in the world the incredible
science and technology and humanitarian
acts all these things yeah
anyway so one phase is uh AGI you know
artificial general intelligence before
you move off that though so um what
you're describing is human intelligence
and so this is and social
intelligence I don't quite know what you
mean by that what I mean is that
societal Norms organizing around the
United
Nations born of this Meats suit the
brain works in a certain way and
computers will not AI will not work in
that same I have no reason to believe
that AI very likely won't it works it
works differ at the end of the day you
know when we have these crazy Hollywood
scripts that AI is going to usurp us for
our heat from the Matrix I love the
Matrix they failed on that use of human
bodies I'm sorry I don't know if you
agree with me on that I I do agree with
you and I don't know well enough what
their original intention was but
according to them yes uh they were by
the studio to give a more simplistic
answer so I let them off the hook for
okay right but you know other we're
coming to get your water on this planet
we're listen whatever we have on this
planet is infinite in the universe we
are a spec a crumb in a universe filled
with resources and so AI doesn't need to
you know squash Humanity to get these
resources um so AGI at its extreme
artificial general intelligence at its
extreme I don't believe is going to be
dystopian in
itself in the middle term uh what I
would call the terrible twos or the
teenage years um maybe there is a case
to be made that in the beginning AI
hasn't reached full sentience doesn't
understand the power of its tools uh
maybe there's a case that you know it's
the baby picking up a rock and throwing
it at the window not understanding what
it's you know the a teenager with a BB
gun and a squirrel yes that's that's the
best but the third element which is the
most likely is the benevolent uh
individual it's it's the Bad actors
using technology and so sometime in the
next 18 months two years there may well
be not a uh a retrovirus released but an
AI virus that goes out and shuts down
power plants or shuts down Wall Street
and something and causes a uh economic
hurdle um that's not the AI those are
the humans using that tool just to be
very clear there's a great book by Mo
goodat called scary smart came out about
a year ago do you know the book I had I
haven't read the book but I had Mo on
the show recently yeah MO is is is
fantastic and um and he basically says
listen I want you to think about AI as a
child we're giving birth to as humanity
and uh that child uh is being taught by
its parents now if you think about
Superman who lands in Kansas wherever he
landed and he's picked up by the Kent
and it's a loving family he learns good
ethics and morals and he becomes a
superhero for good what if the what if
Superman had landed in the Bronx and
part of a drug lord uh ring you know and
had become the super villain you make me
want to write that story soon as you
started I was like wait a second there's
a there's a great plot there so the
question is we humans how are we
teaching this new uh life form coming
into existence I like Neil Jacob's times
framing which is he goes okay you're
worried about an AI
uh getting more and more access to
information uh becoming autonomous
making its own decisions and starting to
run a muck out in the world we go yeah
he goes We call we have a precedent for
that we call them children and we raise
kids and we figured out ways of giving
them timeouts or jail or whatever and he
thinks constructively that we think
we'll find ways of bounding what AIS can
do now wrong how may wrong I'm not sure
I agree with them yeah that seems super
naive to me so when I I am optimistic by
nature and my default setting is just
hey this is all going to work out
somehow and as soon as we wrap this
episode I'm going to be pushing my team
to integrate AI more I'm going to be
paying more money for AI and just
feeding that Beast uh but at the same
time it does give me pauses I try to
think through like how you really deal
with the alignment problem so to me
there's two really big dangers for AI
danger number one and this is the one
that scares me the most but I'm going to
set it aside for a minute and that's
just humans Los lose meaning and purpose
just AI can do everything better than
they can it just becomes so defeating
that you're just like oh God like I've
worked really hard to get good at this
say like this I tell this story all the
time I can't remember if I've told it in
an episode but uh I employ a bunch of
artists and I once sat with one of them
and for like an hour he was just trying
to get the perfect like semicircle and
he was just doing it over and over and
over and over and at the time I thought
oh man yeah like you've got to do that
like to be able to articulate what's in
his mind he has to be able to control
his hand and I was like wow I really get
that now I'm like you wasted your time
like hey I can do that like does not
even have to think about it and he is an
anomaly so he runs out and he's now
learning how to use AI to do some of the
tasks that we want to do artistically
okay amazing we'll set that aside for
now meaning and purpose the other one is
the paperclip problem so now you just
have like when I think about what will a
machine end up optimizing for my gut
instinct is unless you go way out of
your way to get really clever they will
optimize for efficiency of reward so
whatever you tell it is the thing to go
for we'll call that the reward and then
it's just going to find the most
efficient way to get to that and so we
have to be so careful about how we
Define yeah yeah yeah but don't XYZ and
then to the idea of it being like a
child yes but it's like a child that has
access to nuclear capabilities you need
to to build in ethics and morals as a
fundamental in that situation so it
doesn't use World supplies to build a
bill you know infinite number of paper
clips um and it's it's true uh and we
have a limited time to do that in you
know I think uh it's you Google
developed sort of large language models
in 2017 2018 and didn't release them
right CU they were worried they wanted
to build the framework first and they
were maybe overthinking it it's
interesting um we were talking about
YouTube just before the show here uh you
know Google had Google videos going uh
way before YouTube and Google videos
wasn't succeeding I guess I think it was
just too many lawyers involved in you
can't show that you can't do this and
then Chad Hurley starts YouTube on a
credit cards and then Google buys it 18
months later for $ 1.65 billion right
why because you know videos was like a
linear and and YouTube was like
exploding exponentially and they they
jumped on that and so there's a question
of you know which path do you take do
you take the the careful path or do you
take the cath the path of least
resistance and unfortunately we humans
tend to take the path of least
resistance yeah I don't know if I'd say
unfortunately and this is where I really
get uh I don't know how to Think Through
the problem of AI because when I heard
elon's assessment of it which is that AI
is basically a demon summoning Circle M
and we're summoning it like crazy
despite his best efforts to get people
to slow down and I can't bring myself
like when people sign the hey we should
stop thing my immediate response was the
the this this is a one-way street it's
so far out of the bag yeah like it does
not make sense like you could slow it
down in a region but you're not going to
be able to slow it down full stop and so
I am I'm really of two minds I am both
like I think this is going to be amazing
and yet how does this not end the human
race like I well the question is whether
the human race is the end all and be all
right yeah but don't you feel weird even
saying that out loud well no because
we've been evolving on this planet for
three and a half you know life started a
half a billion after the earth started
so four billion years we've been
evolving and we went from Pro carots to
ukar to multicellular life forms to
eventually primates and now humans we're
a step in the transitory process now I'd
like to preserve our steps by the way
the same thing is true for climate
control or climate crisis right it's
like the climate's always been changing
throughout human history we're changing
it now but what we really want is the
climate to stay the way it's been for
the last couple hundred years because
that's where we built our cities so we
just want to freeze the way the world is
right now and I understand that and we
should do that with climate to the
maximum of our ability
but we also want to freeze Evolution now
one of the scenarios of course is we're
going to merge with technology and we
are right all of us have our cell phones
within meters of our body um and I'd
implant it in my brain if I could so the
question is are we going to upload
ourselves are we going to um you know
create brain computer interfaces allows
me to think in Google and no Quantum
quantum physics I'd love it I mean I
would do it a lot of people won't but
we're speciating what we're doing I I
think of this very simply we we the
negative side of us the amydala side the
media Etc you end up with the sky um
Skynet Matrix type of Terminator
scenario if we're lucky we're pets if
we're unlucky were food right kind of
goes that way um uh cheers you don't see
that in actuality as we develop
technology we augment The Human
Experience with technology we don't
replace it is what we've seen and how we
build
now I I think of the resolution of this
as a symmetry problem we're assuming
that some AI will become malevolent and
then do horribly damaged things and we
have no power to control it let's also
not forget that we have the equal
opportunity to say to an AI hey if you
see something bad fight it so what
you'll end up with is uh AI is trying to
do bad stuff and AI is trying to do good
stuff fighting it out and I think that's
where we'll end up and over and over
time we'll figure out okay we've got to
give more resources over here or over
there and we'll work it that you you
always end up with this asymmetry
assumption and I think that's the wrong
assumption you mentioned the movie Her
um I did not oh you did not okay let me
mention it's one of my favorite science
fiction AI movies right if you haven't
seen it fantastic Lo listening um and
it's an AI basically evolves as a
personal assistant and it's a story
about a guy who's depressed Who falls in
love with his AI who helps him get over
his depression and and that sort of like
the underlying story but towards the end
of the movie what occurs is the
AI um announces that they're
leaving uh we're sort of like bored with
you here in humanity we're off to
explore the universe which I think is a
much more likely scenario that in
advanced enough AI has no reason uh to
to hurt the uh to hurt Humanity in fact
every reason to potentially protect us
and support us as its creator but
there's we're living you know it's it's
interesting right I the web Space
Telescope is teaching us about we're you
know 100 billion stars per Galaxy and
we're in a a universe of on the order of
2 to 20 trillion galaxies right it's
insane there's a massive amount out
there now this is where the final piece
of this is the mindset we always we're
always coming at this from a scarcity
mindset a zero sum game mindset when you
see that there's infinite energy and
infinite capability out there then an AI
is going to go okay where am I going to
find the easiest thing it's going to be
out there and they're going to go find
it solar energy they'll build solar
plants and they'll get all the energy
you need from that now I know that you
know physics well uh so are you making
the base assumption that AI once it hits
super intelligence will be able to solve
for folding time and space and so it's
trivial to get to wherever it needs to
go now we need psychedelics to process
this conversation um I who knows uh I'm
I I believe that those are kind of
constructs that keep us in
three-dimensional management but isn't
that seems to be writing in that comment
that would almost need to be true for
that argument to make sense or I would
say if you're looking for a massive
amount of The Rare Earth elements to
build chips or the ability to capture as
much solar it's not going to be on the
surface of the Earth you'd go to the
asteroids which are planetary cores
you'd mine the materials there you'd set
up your your solar collection you know
around the orbit of of mercury you'd
optimize around that now is or you
engineer around it you know you find
substitutes you know people say oh my
God solar panels but there's only so
many silicon panels we can build etc etc
well there's a new material called
perovskite which is like almost just
like a salt it's abundant conducts solar
energy and we're learning now how to
leverage that we won't need solar panels
it's those S curves that that Ray talks
about that I think come into play here
and just keep progressing you're going
to have to walk people through an scurve
and who Ray
is uh an s-curve is a typical
exponential growth curve so in the
beginning we saw uh the first uh
computers used ra relays and you would
have slow deceptive growth they' go into
this exponential uh growth where they'd
start skyrocketing and then they'd run
out of capability and they'd fall off
and it made like a letter s but while
you're using relays to design and use
your computers you use those computers
to create the next generation of
computers which used uh vacuum tubes and
the vacuum tubes could then uh take over
from the relays and then the vacuum
tubes ran out of capability and the
transistor came on and then the
integrated circuit came and then the
multi-dimensional integrated circuit
came so basically one technology runs
out of steam but enables you to build on
the next tech technology and so those
are s-curves or nested s-curves this was
the basis of Ray observation of the law
R the law of accelerating returns that
if you have an information-based
Paradigm once you start a doubling
pattern it just keeps going because
these nested S curves hop from
technology to technology to technology
we're reaching the end of the life cycle
of integrated circuits now if you read
the Press everybody's like oh it's the
end of Moors law that's it Etc and that
article's been coming out for 60 years
and we keep finding ways around it now
we have a bunch of Technologies
clustering at the edge of that 3D chip
design Optical Computing Quantum
Computing Etc they're ready to take it
to the next level and so we find this
consistently in technology once you see
that doubling pattern starting it just
keeps going and this raise has one of
the few brains that can kind of look out
and and say this is what's going to
happen if we push this just a moment
more about Ray so uh Ry is um first of
all he wrote the forward to our new book
exponential organizations to .0 uh he is
co-founder of Singularity University uh
with us um he is uh director of
engineering he's the futurist at Google
which is will say something onto itself
right and uh he realized that that the
law of accelerating returns is this idea
that technology since the uh Stone axe
has enabled the next generation of
technology and the Next Generation
technology and it just keeps going I
think most important to realize is he's
got if you look at Wikipedia he's got uh
a published 86% accuracy rate in
predicting the future which is which is
crazy so his prediction is important for
this
conversation human level AI by
2029 right which means that a day later
it's superhuman uh AI uh brain computer
interface being high bandwidth
connecting your neocortex 100 billion
neurons in your brain to the cloud in
the early 2030s right so those are two
important points
uh the the key thing and by the way we
our chatbot that interfaces with our
book to make it a living book uh we got
talk to rain we we're going to rename
the chat B Ray k um because he's he's he
was the Pioneer so much of this
technology and thinking um so now people
will interact things in a different way
and the whole challenge is it's like
building businesses in the 20th century
you were building on a scarcity model
and you built top- down hierarchical
pyramid style command and control
structures to grab a market grab as much
market share as you could figure out
ways of launching new products and
services in that market Etc and all of
that worked really well in the 20th
century as we have an information-based
World um we need to architect our
organizations in totally different ways
and this is the big differ
differentiator between old style
organizations linear versus exponential
organizations and we now have the data
to show that this is per a pervasive
Paradigm that will be around the book's
been out for close to 10 years now the
original the original yeah so which
Peter and I kind of collaborated deeply
on back then and so now we've got this
definition and a model for how do you
organize in a world of exponential
Technologies and a great um kind of
example of this is the music industry
you used to have eight M major music
studio selling cassettes selling CDs
sell selling a scarcity model right $10
an album or whatever and then you
digitize music all the eight pretty much
disappear and now you have two platforms
iTunes and Spotify selling you abundance
on a subscription model it's very clear
that healthare education Transportation
energy will all follow the same path and
we're starting to see it now Teslas with
you'll be picked up and pay per
kilometer to be taken somewhere Uber's
kind of broaching the edges of that so
we see industry after industry moving to
this new model and what we've been
identifying and Gathering the data on it
is what are the attributes and
characteristics of this
model so before we dive too deep into
that I want to go back to this idea of
um what you call it speciation
speciation yes so there was as far as I
can tell from elon's own words there was
a bit of a breakup between him and Larry
pagee where he was I was there really
and so he what Elon said was basically
when he said that I was being a
speciesist by saying speciest by saying
that um you know I didn't just want to
hand things over to AI uh that's where
he was like okay wait this is this has
gone too far and that's why when you
said that that was how I responded was
like whoa like I get it but there is
something uncomfortable about the idea
of sort
of saying that we're P I don't know the
right way to that we're that we're
evolving and uh we have been and are
evolving we're going from evolution by
natural selection which is Darwinism MH
to evolution by human Direction by
whatever you want to call that what does
that mean well we've been doing it right
now we have been evolving all of our
crops right we we take biology and make
it do our bidding you know an ear of
corn today compared to what it was you
know 500 years ago it's ridiculous the a
of corn looked like a scraggly little I
don't know yeah it was one inch long one
inch long and I he this giant ear of
corn or look at these giant strawberries
we have or the species of dogs or the
chickens we have you many CH are on the
planet today I do not 38 billion
chickens holy moly right amazing anyway
I just that's in the side but so we have
been evolving everything we humans have
a huge footprint on this planet and
we're evolving ourselves um we're
evolving I mean I Outsource much of my
cognitive ability to my phone or chat
GPT or Google whatever the case might be
and uh it is happening you can go and
live in the forest and not use any Tech
if you want but very few people do that
so what does this mean uh if you have a
choice to be able to do a number of
things to enhance your ability right uh
a lot of my work as you well know is in
uh extending the healthy human lifespan
how do I add 20 30 healthy years on my
life to intercept the Technologies
that's going to reverse our aging right
and that's a whole another conversation
um and I believe we're going to get
there
but I also want to increase my cognitive
cap capacity so my phone I'll hold up my
phone here right um when I use my phone
to do something interesting like um uh
IM look at images and faces and
translate whatever my phone gathers the
information and then it sends the
information on the 5G Network to the
edge of the cloud where the hard work is
done and the answer comes back to the
phone the processing isn't done
necessarily on the phone it's done on
the cloud
and in the same way right now we have a
limited size of our brains 100 billion
neurons 100 trillion synaptic
connections and our brains can't get
bigger otherwise our moms would not give
birth to us but what we can do is we can
do the same thing our phones do and send
our desires our interests to the cloud
have it processed and get the answer
back and so that is one future for brain
computer interface another future is we
take our Essence and upload it to the
cloud
uh I don't know when what problem does
that solve for you though well actually
it gives you it gives you scale and Pace
because our brains are limited here
right and our memories are limited here
without any augmentation and this has
been happening actually for about 40 or
50 years if you look at the internet the
first thing we did was we put the
world's data on the Internet it's now
the memory of the world now with all the
sensors the internet has become the
nervous system for the world so we're
like basically extending the organism
outside the human species into this
thing called the internet as we add more
processing and move our brains to it now
you all have an AI and a totally new
speciation type of thing now you can get
worried about that or afraid of that or
freaked out about it or you can say
natural process has been going on for
billions of years this is just another
step in that process man you guys it's
interesting this really hits you guys
differently than it hits me yeah okay so
uh talk to me I don't intuitively agree
about the internet becoming our nervous
system help me understand
that so when you need um when you need
to remember something you want a memory
so you want information stored somewhere
that you can retrieve and now with all
those servers that we have around the
world we have Access Wikipedia for
example we have access to the world The
Next Step once you if you want to if I
step on a nail a memory doesn't help me
I need a nervous system to say Lift foot
scream uh run for a Band-Aid um so the
instant response and the agility of
response you need a nervous system for
this is Uber calling your Uber as part
of the nervous system right this is
sending an email or making a phone call
and asking in you know or an exerprise
team sensing a wildfire and going quick
put it out right away right so this is
that feels super accurate okay so real
time sensing and our bodies operate like
this our bodies our cells are have
receptors and they're scanning for
things when the right thing comes by
they pick it up there's a whole bunch of
information theory around this do you
see this happening at the individual
level or at the societal level wild fire
thing that feels let give
you we're heading towards a world of a
trillion sensors right your pH phone has
dozens of sensors on it right now an
autonomous uh whmo Google's autonomous
car driving down the road is got lar and
radar and cameras and it's picking up
gigabits of data as it goes down the
road everything is being imaged right so
I want you to imagine you're a fashion
designer and you want to decide what
your next fashion show should have and
what is trending you could uh go and ask
your AI listen look at the cameras on
Madison Avenue you and tell me what's
trending in terms of fashion right now
as people are walking down the street
what colors what hem length what hats
what whatever and now can you correlate
that to any kind of AD campaign that's
occurred in the last few months to see a
signal to noise ratio again we're
heading towards a world where you can
know anything you want any time you want
anywhere you want how's that hit
you uh it that one gets me excited so
when I think about so I think about it
from game developers standpoint which is
maybe different I don't know how this
plays into what you guys are thinking
about but here's the fantasy that I live
in that the only thing that keeps me
awake at night is how quickly someone
else is going to do something even
cooler uh but right now I feel like I
have the coolest take on this which is
that I'm sure you guys saw Google and
Adobe announced core AR where basically
everything that Google has mapped which
is everything but the ocean floor you
can now overlay AR 3D assets on that
anywhere and it's only going to get
better insane and so my whole thesis on
gaming is that it becomes this thing I
call borderless entertainment where
you'll hand the game back and forth from
the console to reality and back and so
you know once we've got our Apple AR
glasses I mean it just will be by the
way coming soon oh for sure for sure
like in the next six months or something
right June Monday oh it's announced it's
have they actually said it's the glasses
though or just so they have a big
announcement no no no no no I have a
party I'm going to to go and grab them
and try them you want to join me yes
what okay 100% I want to join you will I
will I'm host I'm Co duct tap myself to
your shin to make sure that you can't
leave me behind okay you're invited wow
luckily he has two shins so I me to come
the other one will leave for you oh no
yeah please I'll give you some duct tape
uh that's insane so this is yeah this
gets very exciting so the idea of being
able to scan everything read that data
uh is incredibly interesting when it
when it's humans in control and
leveraging it to do something amazing I
love it the most and I the way that I
see AI the way that I sort of jokingly
explain it but I'm only half kidding is
that phase one is that there's going to
be um humans that learn how to use AI
are going to just absolutely smash
humans that rebel against it and don't
use it and so I'm certainly trying to be
in that camp phase two is going to be
what all call the temporary Utopia where
it's like hey abundance everything's
amazing and then phase three is we're
all dead and we're either all dead
because something just goes absolutely
horribly wrong and you get the
adversarial system loses once and the
the catastrophic thing is is so massive
or that we're just evolved out of the
picture um and maybe not in a bad way
maybe it's uh it's wonderful and we
merge with technology or whatever um
it's interesting I can very easily put
on an optimistic hat but I can I have to
take off my pessimistic hat to do it
yeah listen here first of all let's take
this back to reality we're living in a
game this is this is a nth generation
simulation do you really believe that I
really believe that fundamentally
believe that just the math says Ju Just
just the just the reality of I like I
like you're framing it you're like the
world is too godamn interesting for this
not to be we're at the level of the game
right now right the odds and and the
ability what I've seen so I introduce
you to imod mustak um right and what
he's doing at stability uh and being
able to render getting to a point very
soon of rendering photo realistic video
experiences that you can go into and
live in and the experiments have been
done by Google and Stanford on creating
AI Bots instantiating them with a script
and a story and letting them live and
and have you heard about this not it
where they basically created a bunch of
AI Bots and they put it into a call it a
digital box hear and they started like
doing birthday parties they started
dating and going on getting jobs and do
and mimicking the things that we do in
life right now so this is the equivalent
of pong in the early days so imagine
combining these things in the future and
you're think about you're going to put
yes and and you're going to put AIS that
have full capabilities into Virtual
Worlds and they'll start evolving
farming and then Metallurgy and then
they'll start uh printing books and then
they'll start making computers and then
they'll evolve AI on their own and
they'll start involving their own Bots
inside so the question is is this the
first time and I think not uh we're in a
universe of you know call it for rough
numbers you know 14 billion years um man
oh man the Drake equation comes into
play yeah tell me more well Frank Drake
uh was a scientist at Nasa in the 50s
NASA commission him to say what's the
probability of Life out there somewhere
so he came up with what's not called the
Drake equation which was okay take um
most 2third of s star systems seem to be
binary Stars don't host a stable orbit
so ignore those of the oneir that's left
uh how many might have a planet in a
Goldilocks where water doesn't
permanently freeze or boil let's say
that's one out of a million out of those
maybe one out of a billion gets to
primordial ooze level and one out of a
million of those lightning bolt hits and
you spark life uh one out of a million
of those may get to radio
technology level techn radio level
technology and one out of a million of
those uh hasn't hasn't wiped itself out
with nuclear weapons before it gets to
the next stage of escaping the earth
type of thing and and so he came up with
a bunch of factors saying if you had
what's the likelihood of car similar
carbon-based radio technology life forms
out out in the universe so the and there
one of our over like you know billions
and billions on the on the den
denominator however when you multiply by
the number of stars out there and by the
number of galaxies out there the uh
pessimistic answer is there's 100%
chance of radio level carbon based
technology life forms out in the
universe the optimistic one is it's
actually right in our galaxy right and
every time we uh learn more about the
universe how many stars there are Etc
turns out there's a hundred times more
stars that have stable planets around
them than we thought weing every Factor
turns out to be a thousand times better
than we thought and therefore you you
really end up with a firmy paradox of if
there's intelligent life out there why
haven't we seen it yeah yeah so the
interesting your guess is the
interesting code interesting variable on
on the Drake equation was between the
time that a intelligent species
developed the ability to transmit
Interstellar
which is like I Love Lucy leaving the
Earth and heading out towards the Galaxy
how long would that
species exist before something happened
to it the dystopian point of view is
that it blows itself up and it's only
like 100 years or 50 years so forth the
positive point of view is that they
transition to where radio is not it's
like we don't use smoke signals anymore
cuz radio is so backwards the theory I
like the most is called the transcension
hypothesis by a guy called John smart
who figures we'll get the AR level uh
capability and VR level capability and
instead of going out in the universe we
go inwards 100% And that's I think
that's probably the likely this strikes
me as and look AI complicates things
dramatically and so folding space time
becomes trivial maybe what I'm about to
say isn't true but uh it seems
self-evident to me that once you can
attach the nervous system truly like
your own nervous system and you can
manipulate your
neurochemistry that you would create
dream states infinite worlds yeah that
you just go inward why would you bother
projecting out which would take so much
more energy that's right and so you just
go in and you have these incredible
experiences um that strikes me so let's
go back to your question of purpose now
so cuz that's I link it back to that and
I think purpose is so important for all
of us to have it's driven everything of
significance done but let's say that we
end up in a world in which one of the
implications of exponential
organizations are that we have what we
call what a friend Harry clor called
technological socialism where technology
takes care of you versus the state right
and um in that world where you're taking
care of what's your
purpose um maybe your purpose is to have
fun maybe your purpose is to play maybe
your purpose is to and this we go back
to the Matrix again because without the
challenge you know the question is is
that empty you know the old Twilight
Zone right where the uh where the guy
goes to Las Vegas and he's winning all
the time and he thinks I know of The
Twilight Zone but I haven't seen the
episodes uh so in this episode uh this
guy dies and go and he's he's been a
mafioso and he he's uh he goes to heaven
or hell and he shows up and they're
beautiful women every place he's in the
Las Vegas casino and he's winning every
night and he's winning and he's winning
and he's winning and he's all the riches
is anything he wants 24/7 and it's like
amazing right his dream's coming true
but like a month later he's like I am so
tired of winning all the time God
there's nothing challenging there's
nothing no challenges at all and he
turns and he says this Heaven man it's
it's terrible he goes what makes you
think you're in heaven so good I knew
that was a punchline you still gave me
the chills yeah that is uh that's a real
thing man yeah and I do think about that
the sort of optimal like what's that
optimal level of friction and there was
a really fascinating time in my life in
building impact Theory where I needed to
get good at Japanese style storytelling
so Manga and Anime and I was reading
manga like a fiend and watching as much
anime as I could I was getting up super
early and working out and then watching
like an hour hour and a half of anime it
was awesome it's one of the most fun
times I've had as an adult the second I
felt like I understood the art form I
couldn't I couldn't let myself do it
anymore like I I couldn't enjoy it I was
just like you already understand it now
you're just doing it to like P time
doing something that's enjoyable and it
had that same feeling of like winning
all the time where I'm like this isn't
interesting it needed to be moving
towards something it needed to add up to
something like progress yeah like this
is the very reason that Lisa and I did
not buy an island and retire and not
engage it's like I knew I would end up
sitting on that I can tell you other
reasons not to buy an Island by the way
I bet you can
I mean look life life is about growth
right and even if we have plentiful and
today relatively we have plentiful go
back a thousand years we were all
spending 28 hours a day in the fields
just to put three meals on the table
right we've steadily Shrunk the amount
of time as we move towards probably some
structure like a Ubi we then have an
equal opportunity to do lots of
interesting things when we've studied
abundance say the Romans taking over and
creating the Roman Empire the Moguls
taking over India and encountering
abundance Society is very clearly goes
to four things that they do uh food art
music and sex not in that order um and
so that's essentially where you will
will end up and you end up looking at
self-expression and the artistic realm
much more than you did before whether in
whatever realm you choose and so it
becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and
by the way we've done this for thousands
of years right Buddhists sit in
contemplation they reach Enlightenment
and they they their their life is spent
contemplating and that's where they get
the most joy and this is something that
I think we'll get to as a
species I'd like to bring it back to the
following one of the things one of the
reasons we wrote this
book is to help entrepreneurs and
businesses understand that they can make
a much bigger dent in the universe than
ever before and uh while it's not about
making money it's about how do you build
a significant company that is
transforming the planet and is making
the world a better place and what we're
finding is that there are a number of
ways that companies do this reliably
with the biggest dent and uh and so we
want to get that information out there
um and the reality is if you're building
a company today you need to start with
this as your playbook um in order to
succeed because it's table stakes and if
you're running a large scale company um
if you don't use these attributes if
you're not using these you are not going
to survive the rest of this decade you
know what I say is there two kinds of
companies by end of this decade you know
those that are fully utilizing Ai and
these exponential Technologies and those
that are out of business that's it uh
it's it's this decade where all of this
is happening and so uh you know we talk
about the first step in building an EXO
is having a massive transformative
purpose and it's going to be that
passion driven need to make a difference
in the world that's going to carry you
through doing anything big and bold in
the world is hard unless you're driven
by awe on one side of the emotional
curve or pain on the other side of the
emotional curve you're going to give up
before you get there no doubt yeah I
when I'm teaching entrepreneurs I always
tell them that success is a game of
attrition most people give up and you've
got to stick it out long enough to
figure this out so that would be this
the old Paradigm is that sorry go ahead
yeah I was I was to say you know in
looking at what you're doing uh and what
you've been building uh in Impact Theory
you you you do use a lot of the of the
10 attributes that follow an MTP and it
be it'll be fun to actually uh see which
ones you're you're cranking on yeah no
MTP is definitely our lead engine we
know what we're doing and we know why
we're doing it and that's a big part of
the way that we attract Talent which you
guys have talked a lot about but tying
it to this idea of Buddhism so there
obviously all of us get to make a choice
every day effectively as to whether we
recognize that all of suffering comes
from attachment and desire and thusly we
go live a monastic life and we remove
ourselves completely from that stream or
we say I'm going to do deep engagement
in a way that's thoughtful in a way
where I'm not sort of blindly chasing
something it's not want it's not greed
but it is very much leveraging the human
desire for Progress you talked about
that earlier um to see how much I can do
with my life that's something that that
really drives me is I just want to see I
feel like I was given sort of a an
average hand at cards I want to see how
well I can play it and that's extremely
intoxicating for me it's just like whoa
but that's just as powerful right if
you're if you're let's say you're an
Enlighten monk there's two ways of doing
you can go and meditate forever or you
can go into the world and be of service
and that's as as richual path a harder
much harder path because you've got to
do stuff and interact with the world
which is messy and ugly and you put
yourself at risk and you put yourself
out there but when you can make a major
difference in a particular problem like
you are doing like you're doing many of
our communities are making unbelievable
changes and transformation in their
societies their companies their
governments their countries this is
where the beauty of Life comes out and
and we think that over over the next
decade or so every company every
nonprofit every government Department
every impact project will be structured
along these lines of these attributes
because it's just better and we now have
the data to show it I don't know if you
came across the Fortune 100 data that we
that we that we mentioned I mean
unbelievable right over a sumarize this
yeah so when we wrote the original book
I did a segment on CNBC squawkbox and we
ranked The Fortune 100 against the EXO
model so we gauge to what extent is
Walmart Purpose Driven or not to what
extent is IBM using Lean Startup
thinking experimentation to what extent
is GE decentralizing the decision making
or not and we came up with an index
ranking these organizations by this
model essentially ranking the
purpose-driven scalable flexible
adaptable quotient of each of these and
the bottom is the least flexible least
adaptable over seven years we tracked
which 10 used those attributes the most
and which used them the least and then
we compared the two and seven years is a
pretty decent long amount of time to
account for temporal blips in the stock
market Etc we found that the top 10 most
EXO friendly compared to the bottom 10
Revenue growth was three times higher
profitability was 6.4 Times Higher
return on Equity was 11 times higher but
shareholder returns compound annual
growth rate uh was 40 times higher and
literally we had to scour the numbers
like four times over because just it's
just too big how could this be and so
now it's pretty clear that as we enter a
more volatile World your ability to
adapt is going to drive market value and
we can measure this now completely
therefore every organization going
forward needs to be architected along
this way to deal with the increasing
volatility in the world and the other
side of that volatility and disruption
is the unbelievable opportunity that's
sitting out there right and this is
where I think the work that you're doing
Peter is so important because you're
non-stop showing people the world is
unbelievably abundantly full of
opportunity freaking go get it go have
some fun so walk me through why why is
why does adaptation return so much more
to shareholders and what does one have
to do to be adaptive okay so let's take
the car industry right you're trunking
along making um combustion engine cars
and you're incrementally improving those
cars eight valves to 16 valves okay you
had turbo you had anti-lock braking
systems etc etc um Along Comes Elon with
the Tesla and goes totally different
Paradigm right now you have two choices
right there you go ah this is a joke
it's never going to work look at it it's
like the Kodak camera uh the first
version is clunky and it doesn't work so
well Etc and you keep trying to do
things your old way over time you're
going to get wiped out because you're
not adapting to where the world actually
is right there's so many hundreds of
reasons why an electric car today is
much better than a combustion engine car
um uh it now it's taking the car
industry 10 years I would argue that
until the tyon came out last year that
the 20 the Porsche Ty the Porsche
electric car um I would argue that the
2012 Tesla Model S was still the most U
uh Advanced car in the
world until the tyon right so 10 years
it took them to respond well the market
cap you can see the result there The
Unbelievable loss of capability Leading
Edge thinking Etc and you have the same
thing happening in drones and in
aircraft and other things all Industries
are geared towards the status quo and
trying to make incremental and this is
where you devolve to me meanwhile you
have breakthrough thinking breakthrough
opportunity and the recent explosion in
AI capability just adds a rocket booster
to all of that so now we're going to see
new companies emerge that are creating
unbelievable value in very very little
time and if you're a legacy organization
you have to figure this out and we've
actually figured out a tool set for this
we we find that we've come up with a
10-e engagement that we've run in big
companies that hacks culture scale and
we're able to solve what we call the
immune system problem so when you try
anything disruptive in a big company you
the antibodies attack you right Finance
legal HR branding goes you can't you
can't do that the general answer in a
big company if you're trying to do
anything crazy is no and we've learned
how to switch that to a yes uh and we've
done it now don't just gloss pass it
because even so a company of my size
which contractors etc etc is a little
over a 100 people yeah and there are
times where I want to headbutt my own
own teammates yes
because theistic we have is if you're
over about 50 people you have an immune
system yeah I I've had that at the X
prise I've had that every place right
because you're a quick start you want to
try things and one of the things that's
critical that a lot of companies that
are built as exos have they begin with
an experimental culture and a data
driven culture with dashboards and the
tyranny of
confidence isn't given a place to grow
the tyranny of confidence
the tyranny of confidence is where I'm
confident I know the right answer versus
let's run the experiment and see what
the right answer is right because we've
lived in this as Humanity you hire the
expert you hire the guy who's or gal
who's been in a competitor and you bring
them in and you base what you're doing
on their on their experience level but
that is so limited compared to the world
we're living in today and so how do you
build a a datadriven experimentalist
organization I had one other feature on
top of that which is a founder-led
company so you get companies like tesin
SpaceX or Amazon where you've got you
know where Jeff Bezos in this very
famous shareholder letter of like
208 whatever was say I'm not going to
optimize for profitability I'm
optimizing for growth and if you don't
like it invest someplace else right so
how do you have that kind of uh you know
benevolent uh
dictatorship um that's where you're then
looking at the data to decide not the
way all your competitors are doing it if
you want to scale your business you
absolutely have to have the right data
in order to understand what's really
going on if you want to do that well I
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Theory given the state of AI and Quantum
Computing do you think that we're on the
brink of human immortality I think we're
on the brink of a health span Revolution
I think immortality comes when we can
scan the brain and upload you into the
cloud you think that's the the only way
we have to transcend biology people have
to realize we're constantly replenishing
all of the cells of our body anyway
right like the oldest cells in your body
are your fat cells that are an average
of 8 years old given AI given Quantum
technology we're going to start to uh
understand why we age how to slow it
stop it maybe reverse it and I think
those things will get us uh north of 100
years the boohead whale the largest
mammal can live 200 years uh Greenland
shark can live 500 years and have pups
at 200 years old and the question is if
they can live that long why can't we M
and for me it's either a hardware
problem or a software problem and we're
getting the tools to be able to deal
with and edit our software edit our
hardware and for people who are saying
well am I going to be part of that am I
going to live for hundreds of years am I
going to have the chance to be immortal
I'm going to put aside The Immortal part
again I think your mission
should be how do I live long enough
healthfully enough to intercept the
breakthroughs that are
coming right so it's interesting someone
asked me a question like how long do you
want to live right I remember when I was
in medical school I I set a like a 700e
life span which is a ridiculous number
it's ridiculous because if I can
live I think another 30 years from now
the breakthroughs we're going to see are
going to buy you the next 30 or 100
years so your goal is to live long
enough to intercept what's called
Longevity escape
velocity yeah that to me is feels very
plausible when I think about the magic
trick that is AI yeah um walk me through
what you think is the rough timeline and
and I fully acknowledge that looking
into the future when you're talking
about something as revolutionary as AI
becomes a little bit comical but I think
that it helps uh to map you think about
how this is going to work like what the
problems are that we're going to solve
where's the intersection of AI and
Quantum Computing you're the only one I
really hear talking about that and its
importance in this revolution what is it
about Quantum Computing you think is
going to help yeah uh are there
qualities of AI that are only going to
be possible with Quantum Computing what
what are the next steps let me Define
first of all lifespan and health span so
lifespan is how long you live how long
your heart is beating how long your
brain is
processing uh Health span is how long
you've got the vital energy to enjoy
life you know get up in the morning play
with your kids or your grandkids go for
a hike enjoy yourself have the mental
physical uh Vitality right that's Health
span and that's really what we want you
know if someone says I don't want to
live to 120 years old it's because they
have a mental image of being in a
wheelchair
drooling right that's not what we're
speaking about here um if I said to you
at
120 your mind was as Sharp As It Ever
Was you could you know hit the ground
and do 40 push-ups and you know would
you want to live to 120 and I think
anybody who is who is loving life would
say yes so that's our goal it's it's
that level of
Vitality um so ai ai is going to play in
this by helping us uh understand such a
complicated situation so why do some
people live to 100 or 115 or
120 and smoke you know and still get
that far out right why some people L
people die at 50 or 60 um and I think
aging is in in human biology is so
complicated that we're still deciphering
it we're still untangling this this
process and there's so much data we can
now get and we've talked about you know
one of my companies uh Fountain life is
sort of like the most advanced
Diagnostics you can do so when I go to
Fountain life and we've got centers
around the US um I will be digitally
uploaded so in the course of a day I
will have a full body MRI uh an MRI of
My Brain Brain vasculature Brain blood
flow a coronary CT looking for soft
plaque dexa scan 120 blood biomarkers
metabolome microbiome your genetics
everything thing all right so it's 150
gabt of
data and that data over the course of
thousands of
individuals can only be analyzed by AI
but then we can start to say look the
people who um s were the healthiest and
and didn't have uh disease or we can
look at presymptomatic disease and the
people who developed this over
time had this genetic sequence or had
these blood
biomarkers it's the incorporation of
massive data aggregation and AI that's
going to help us
understand uh why some people survive
and thrive and others don't and then
what are the Therapeutics look at
everybody who took rap Amin or metformin
or you know was on you know whatever
drug combinations it's so
complicated but we're running this
massive
experiment um and AI is going to help us
to untangle that and get some insight
and say yes for your genetics for your
age for your objectives these meds these
supplements are the best for you right
that's one of the things I'm really uh
working to build out for myself and our
memb numers at Fountain life is that
kind of a correlation MH like what you
want to do in life your upload your
genetics number of pilles will take per
day this is the right combination for
you yeah I think n of one is going to be
a big part of this okay I'm going to lay
out my thesis okay tell me where I go
wrong please uh so one I want to say
that I come at this the way that a
Sci-Fi writer would come at it so I
understand enough of it to get the gist
and to be able to prognosticate the spe
specifics will be filled in by people
that really know the science um but the
way I see this playing out is that okay
we need this is a game of pattern
recognition there is a reason right
there is a reason why we age so step one
is going to be by um I think by getting
into synthetic data very very quickly so
we'll upload whatever the first 10,000
100,000 people that go through something
like Fountain life and we begin to um
speak the language of DNA let's say and
we probably need to uh feed into the AI
not just human DNA but across all kinds
of species feed it as much DNA as we can
it goes in it learns the language of DNA
it begins to feed itself data and begin
to um try to predict different outcomes
based on okay uh this environment with
this genetic code this drug interaction
whatever again looking for the massive
amount of data but trying to parse out
the different patterns in it so that it
can isolate what the problem is now with
my very sort of lay and understanding of
all of
this my again just guess at this point
is that what's really going on is the
epigenome is where all this breaks down
you know David Sinclair's study as well
as I do which showed that even if you
breed a mouse to just get massive amount
of breaks in its DNA over time the DNA
still looks the same like we are able to
repair the DNA it isn't what we used to
think it was which is you're getting
these mutations in the DNA over time and
the DNA is effectively getting corrupted
but something is happening and so if
that something is the epigenome where
we're just we're Mist tagging it again
this is my Layman's explanation of how
this works but they're going in and
putting in the wrong bookmarks um for
people that don't know how this works
your DNA is basically really tightly
wound and a little bit of it gets
exposed to say I'm an eye cell I'm a
skin cell I'm a heart cell whatever and
as you age you're dedifferentiating
and so your eye cell maybe now isn't
purely an eye cell because parts of the
DNA are unraveling so it's a little bit
of a skin cell a little bit of a heart
cell a little bit of an eye cell and so
now this is where the function begins to
degrade over time if the AI can figure
out okay cool that really is the problem
this is exactly what's going on here are
the yamanaka factors or whatever that
you need to um put to work to rewind the
cell so that it resets and so now we're
getting the bookmarks in all the right
places that part once that's figured out
again I my gut instinct is that's going
to be handled through the the AI using
Quantum Computing to be able to Crunch
just an unbelievable amount of synthetic
data so we don't have because if you
have to feed in millions or billions of
people like I just worry that that's
going to take way too long for somebody
of my age but if we can do this via
synthetic data then the ODS that it goes
faster go way up yeah where's where's
the flaw in that thinking so listen you
know when I was in medical school I
don't know 35 years ago I I went
arguably to the best medical you know
University and engineering schools on
the planet and none of this was being
talked about right all of this is really
this entire conversation is the last
five six years um and it's moving very
fast it was heresy before I talk about
longevity or uh age reversal and now
it's one of the hottest subjects on the
planet because it's the biggest
Marketplace I mean what would you not
pay for an extra 20 to 30 Health years
of life so yes we are um to Echo what
you said um if you think about it each
of us get 3.2 billion uh nucleotides or
our genome 3.2 billion letters from our
mom and from our dad and you've got that
same genome when you're born when you're
20 when you're 50 when you're 100 maybe
when you're
150 but why don't you look the same if
you've got the exact same instruction
set why don't you have a you know a a
12pack if that's a thing or a six-pack
whatever when you're 80 like you had
when you were 20 that one I can answer
but the face I think is because the
six-pack has everything to do with your
lifestyle if you're just to much fat is
what it is yeah I mean my my point
simply being is why don't you have the
physique um or the ability to build
muscle or everything of your youth when
you're 100 why is there a difference and
it isn't your genome it isn't your your
3.2 billion letter instruction set it is
what you just said a minute ago your
epig genome Epi for the Greek word for
above and it's the control system and
and you're right
um when
you're when you're just born or when
you're 10 or when you're 20 when you're
80 different genes are on and different
genes are off and the epigenome is the
control of which genes are on which
genes are off at the highest level it is
the control of the genes for skin are on
in your skin cells and the gene for your
hepatocytes are on in your liver and and
so they're different cells they've
differentiated turning certain silencing
certain genes and saying you're not your
genes aren't needed here in the skin
cell you don't need to be uh you know uh
purifying out urine right um and
so as you age what apparently is going
on is that the control of which genes
are on and which genes are off are
beginning to
blur and as you're getting older the
genes that should be off are turned on
or the genes that should be on or turned
off um I'll give you an example skin um
you know the Supple skin of a child of a
newborn right part of what's going on is
we have something like 23 collagen genes
and we express multiple collagen
molecules that make your skin give it
the the texture and so forth but as you
grow older we begin to silence some of
those genes and so your the collagen
molecules of the 23 maybe only eight or
nine are
expressed and so you start to get you
know wrinkles and uh you know his skin
starts to look that of an old person but
can you turn them back on so one of the
companies my Venture fund buold capitals
an investor in this is Marble Marble
biome and it's using genetic engineering
uh epigeic reprogramming to turn back on
those genes right to give you know to
take back the the look and feel of your
skin 30 years MH so can we do that
across multiple parts of the body can we
rejuvenate you in that regard and that
is one of the definitely one of the
hottest topics out there right now can
we turn back the clock and and in
December 2020 David Sinclair uh wrote a
very uh famous paper in which he
demonstrated turning back the clock in
the retinal uh visual systems of
mice um basically reprogramming the
epigenome to go back to where it was
earlier and giving mice said had lost
their Vision renewed vision
and one of his companies like
biosciences is now doing that in
primates right and they already done it
they're already they're doing in
primates right now and have they shown
that it has the same retinol impact or I
believe they have um uh and you know
we're then a a fraction of a step away
from
humans right so uh this is the hot
conversation of uh epigenic
reprogramming on one element AI on the
other and I and I really fundamentally
believe that we're within Striking
Distance to making a dent in human aging
um and I mean you know that's why you
and I are here in this moment we just
announced our $101 million Health span
xprize um challenging teams around the
world it's the largest prize ever in
human history
uh challenging teams to restore function
in muscle immune and
cognition um hopefully this is a age
reversal uh therapeutic that teams will
deliver we're we're just looking at
three systems the you know if if the
teams going after this health span
exerprise are doing something that at
the root cause is hitting aging then
they're likely to hit aging throughout
the body we're only going to measure
immune muscle and cognition because
those are easy to measure and for me as
I get older I want to have the immunity
to fight infectious disease and cancer I
want to have you know the muscular
Vitality to you know hike and play with
my great-grandchildren
right and the cognition to be sharp for
decades to
come okay so one of the things that I
care deeply about is the timing of all
of this yeah me too Budd with with the
prize uh they have seven years right
they have we announced this now in uh uh
what month that we November December of
23 and it's a seven-year time frame um
why seven years do you think that's I
think I I set seven years uh originally
because if an xprize you know the
original x prise uh the first one I
launched back in
1996 was a $10 million prize for space
flight and again these X prizes are not
for a paper study they're not for an
idea a team has to actually demonstrate
the thing and then they get the money
and they keep their IP the world gets
the benefit and the first X prize took
eight years uh it was launched in 1996
it was one in 2004 when Bert retan
backed by Paul Allen built spaceship one
that Richard Branson then bought the
rights to and create Virgin
Galactic and since then our prizes have
typically taken anywhere from you know 2
to 8 years we had one prize uh $30
million Race to the Moon that Google
funded uh it was at a 10-year Horizon it
did not get one it got shut down uh
though two of the teams actually made it
to the moon shortly thereafter but
crashed on Landing interesting but they
still you know got to lunar orbit and
still made there which is a big big deal
a Japanese team and an Israeli team
um so by setting a deadline on a prize
you force teams to actually do something
versus sit back if it's there
forever they'll take you know the race
element does help them accelerate but a
deadline when you're facing a deadline
you're going to you're going to take
even more aggressive action uh so seven
years for me felt the right length the
second thing is one of you know our our
largest donor in this prize is a group
called called Evolution which is based
it's a global nonprofit based out of
Riad and out of the
US and um Saudi Arabia has a a 2030
vision of uh really they have a lot of
projects culminating in the year
2030 um and it just so happened that
that is the culmination of this prize as
well so 2030 works from that perspective
as
well when I think about Ai and the rate
of advancement so I come at things from
a entertainment perspective and when I
look at what's happened in the last 11
months quite frankly hasn't been a full
year that I've been paying attention to
um text to video the the leaps are pure
Insanity it it is it's insane I was just
looking at em Mod's uh latest uh
stability AI which as fast as you're
typing yeah you know there's a ape with
an orange on its head hanging from a you
know bouncing on a trampoline and as as
you add words the images are changing
it's insane it's crazy it's we're we're
a micro step away from uh from Hollywood
vid you know movies being produced by
describing them in in words yeah given
the rate of change on in the last 11
months I'm going to guess in the next
five years you will see uh commercials
and things done entirely just text video
like it I think it's the next two years
five years I mean it certainly could be
in the next three just give given the
amount of UI changes they'll have to do
my gut instinct is that you're you're
looking at at least three years but um
so when I think about the advancements
in longevity when I look at what humans
have been able to do just in the last 10
years it's already incredible when you
slap AI onto that then it gets nuts what
do you think is going to be the
contribution of quantum computers how
real is that right now yeah so it's
we're in the early days of quantum
Computing to be clear right um uh
Quantum
Computing uh is a complicated subject
which I'm not going to do service to to
be very clear right so classical
Computing is uh basically Computing that
uses ones and zeros on integrated
circuit and a typical um uh you know
typical binary language Quantum
Computing uh uses cubits that are
basically can be anything a zero one or
anything between a zero and a one and
what we find is it it really um
represents the real world we're living
in a Quantum World we're not living in a
binary digital world we we
model the world uh using uh very
Advanced binary systems we model um on a
molecular level so for example uh uh
Deep Mind which is part of alphabet now
right right um which created a program
called Alpha fold and Alpha fold I
remember when I was in medical school uh
or when I was maybe was I was in
undergraduate MIT at the time the big
Grand Challenge of the time is could you
predict how a protein would fold so a
protein is the basic building structure
of the body it's a structural material
it's an enzyme it's muscle tissue it's
it is a sequence of amino acids there
are 23 essential amino acids here these
amino acids when they're um assembled in
a ribosome read from DNA to RNA to uh to
a protein the sequence of amino acids
they're like Lego blocks strung together
um begin to fold into a very predictable
3D structure and that 3D structure is
everything that 3D structure determines
what that protein does how it functions
how it interacts uh in a you know uh uh
in a antibody
um and it was always considered if you
could go from an amino acid sequence
like I can tell you the sequence of the
amino acids in this in this thousand
amino acid sequence and if you could
tell me how it would fold that would be
the most incredibly powerful predictive
engine on the planet and it was a super
Computing problem
and it was a couple years ago now that
alphafold uh an algorithm out of Deep
Mind cracked that problem um and uh it
was able to go from an amino acid
sequence to predicting a protein within
a single Atomic diameter accuracy whoa
and then it went on to predict every
protein and how it folds in the human
body and then meta created their own
version of that and was able to predict
every protein in the biological
ecosystem like POS it it's gone insanely
fast right so now we can start to design
proteins versus just find out what
nature We Want A protein that is a
certain shape that interacts with a
certain like you know Key and Lock uh on
the surface of a
cell but that's all being done in binary
that's all being done with AI algorithms
operating on
gpus at a atomic molecular level we are
quantum
systems and the belief is that quantum
computers will be able to enable us to
model what's going on at a much higher
level of fidelity much faster and so
that we can start to understand the
fundamental elements of how life itself
Works in a much deeper way and start to
model things you know um
I don't know what what factor to use
trillions of times faster than the
classical computer because it takes a
lot of energy and a lot of time to model
things
um but Quantum is going to be able to um
model chemistry and model biology uh at
lightning speeds um so I believe we're
going to see uh you know 2023 2024 we're
seeing the inflection point of
AI um uh we're what does that mean it
mean means we're we're seeing
AI growing at at unbelievable speeds
what you said ear a few minutes ago that
it's like it's it's awesome it's it's
it's unbelievable how fast it's moving
and and typically an inflection point is
like it's a slow slow you know like AI
so AI began the first conversations in
AI were in
1956 at Dartmouth University a group of
a dozen people came together to talk
about this idea of can we model
intelligence in spent like a summer
trying to do it right they they to try
and get the theories and think through
it right and then neural networks were
proposed not very long after that but we
didn't have the computational power
until this past decade to actually start
to put these algorithms into play
and so while AI is what uh 56 you know
60 70 years old it's only now that we're
seeing this massive
inflection um it's the knee of the curve
it's the point where its speed is so
fast right and now we're going to start
to see AI programming Ai and it becomes
self-referential and accelerates even
faster so Quantum is still slow it
meaning we're getting systems we're
beginning to learn how to utilize it we
have there's like two or three public
Quantum compute
companies um uh a friend I don't know if
you know Jack hit uh Jack is on my Board
of Trustees at x prise uh he spun out of
Google a company called um sandbox AQ
yes right uh Eric Schmidt's the
chairman uh and Jack is the
CEO um
and a stands for AI and Q stands for
Quantum and it's a company that's really
bringing together Ai and Quantum
Computing and uh his belief is it's
going to be most impactful in a few key
areas and biology and chemistry is one
of those key areas that to me is really
fascinating the fact that we're going to
be able to manipulate the building
blocks of biology is pretty crazy where
do do you think that our ability to um
predict the folding of proteins goes how
do we use that what comes of it so now
the question becomes what drug do you
want in order to um uh handle a certain
situation so we're going you know drug
Discovery up until now has been you go
to the Amazon forest and you forage for
different leaves and and and stuff and
you take it back to the lab and you see
what you got
right like uh rapamycin which is one of
the longevity medications out there um
I'm not going to detail about it but it
was discovered in a soil sample from
Easter Island uh which is known as
rapanui and that Rapa got its name from
that so this random process of like just
finding stuff and and trying to purify
it and see if it has an effect on
anything uh is going to go uh we're
going to flip the model to saying okay
what exactly do we want to interact with
this receptor on this cell or block this
chemical process inside of the
mitochondria and we're going to design
it and then we'll see does it interact
with anything else we're going to start
to create in silico models right comput
computer models of
cells at in High Fidelity to understand
what's going on and how you want to
tweak
it do we already have the ability to
manufacture this stuff or absolutely
100% And it's and and there's a company
called uh in silic medicine uh Alex
zankov who is the CEO there is a friend
um uh my Venture fund is an investor
full disclosure um and uh they have Inc
silico medicine is as the name says
we're going to create
medicines in
simulation on computers and then
manufacture it and then show that it
works and they have drugs in Phase 2 or
phase three right now that we're
designing a computer for a particular
medical condition and it's working
out how does drug Discovery work exactly
using
AI um you're going
to understand uh a molecular
process uh inside a cell that is causing
a
disease um
and you're going to say this particular
molecule is is a waste product that's
accumulating that is causing this
disease and can we create a uh A protein
that might go bind that
molecule in a highly uh accurate fashion
that when it's bound uh blocks the
disease from occurring and allows your
immune system to clear it right so we're
going to start to um to Tinker with uh
and the question then becomes is does
that molecule you've designed to block a
particular reaction or um or a waste
product does it have a secondary
negative effect that you don't want
right so you're still going to go
through clinical
trials um to determine that there's no
downside of that will that be more of a
um we have to do it but in reality we've
already run the simulation six ways a
Sunday inside there will be a point in
the future so for example when SpaceX
launched the Dragon capsule to the space
station for the first
time it worked it worked
perfectly they're great Engineers but
the reason it worked fantastic because
they had a highly accurate computer
model of the entire system and so they
modeled it in high fidelity
and it performed like the model
said and so for example more recently we
see Starship uh making
serial uh advances as it's going towards
orbit of course you know the crisis News
Network and all the uh all the media say
oh Starship fails like [ __ ] it was
an amazing incremental success you know
the the first ship got to a certain
point the second ship got further the
Third third one will probably work
perfectly because those ships are are
highly instrumented and all the data is
coming back and the data is being used
to advance the models and saying aha
this is actually was going on and so
let's change this engine or this
structural enery and we're going to
start to do the same thing in biology
which we're going to start to gather
enough data and instrument and
understand what's going on where we can
eventually get to a point where we have
a
a highly accurate model of the human
cell um and not just a cell but maybe
it's an organ maybe it's a thousand
cells or a billion cells and we're going
to know that this particular designed
protein or medicine whatever might be
works
perfectly um and we'll get to a point
where you don't need to uh go through a
massive clinical trial how far is that
away it's probably not the next 5 or 10
years years but it is probably 20 to 30
years out uh but the cost of these right
and then by the way this drug works for
me not for
you by the way do you know I I don't
know the exact number but it's pathetic
um when a drug is approved by the
FDA and you take your you're prescribed
that
drug what percentage of time the drug
actually works for
you I've heard this before it's either
40 % of the time it works or 60% of the
time it works it's like it's like under
20% no way yeah it's it's and I I'll I
want to check that number so I have it
but it's um the when a drug goes through
the drug Discovery
process you know
uh the
first goal is Do no harm yes and by the
way uh most of the drug Discovery
process for the last century has been
done in or safety trials have been done
in men only yep there's a good reason
for that though well the reason was that
drug companies didn't want to deal with
menes and menopause and so forth right
it was inconvenient there's just so much
so many more complications but what
happened was when drugs were taken off
the market because they failed it was
because they hadn't tested them in
women because you I mean why assume that
this drug that we developed for a
particular condition that was safe in
men is also safe in
women anyway so first is Do no harm and
then does it work and when the FDA
approves a drug it worked in enough
people that it was worth approving but
it doesn't work at 100% in the Curr
circumstances and it's a it's a minority
uh number and I'll have to check on that
I have an obsession as an entrepreneur
which is that uh as a human but this
really manifests an achman where people
need to stop trusting themselves so much
yes people are so convinced they know
that that they don't even recognize that
they have a world view and if they do
recognize that they have a world view
they are utterly convinced that it is
simply a reflection of what is
objectively true and so they're like no
the way that I see things is the right
way and I'm like oh my God like is that
your view uh yeah exactly confirmation
by that's my view and it's right Peter I
we have all I mean one of the big things
that AI is gonna give us as a gift is
the ability to overcome all of these
biases we have right all these cognitive
biases recency bias negativity bias
confirmation bias
recas all of these things which our
brain is really sucks at processing and
so we have all these hacks right you
trust someone who looks like you you
give higher weight to the most recent
information you got you give higher
weight to negative information over
positive
information and you know there's going
to be a version where you go to Jarvis
your your AI and you say you know I want
to put cognitive bias alert on tell me
if I'm being
biased you know when we were building
Singularity University um I was the
founding executive director there um a
few years in I was I'd written the book
and I was off and Peter asked me to come
to a board meeting say what should Su
look like in five years or 10 years and
I made a comment I said you know you
should shut it down because you you
build an organization and over time you
spend more time trying to sustain the
organization than trying to solve the
problem that you set out to solve in the
first place and the DARPA is the big
organization they do every role even the
CEO is 3 years long and then you have to
rotate out you're not allowed to hold
any role for more than three years and
you're then you're measured worried
about things eating stale stale and
therefore they keep things fresh and the
your legacy is what did you do three
threee patterns ago and was it good or
not so now you're always focused on the
long term you take out all the politics
Etc and I think in today's world if I
had to kind of boil it down I would say
you build a company and after 3 to 5
years you just go we're going to shut it
down after and force us to reinvent our
or or re or reinvent the company right
when the X prize got one and we had
spaceship one fly we held a meeting and
said do we shut it down or do we
reinvent ourselves into a platform yeah
and we did and now we're getting ready
to launch x-prize 3.0 which happened
during Co I I said you know pulled the
board together I said this is a perfect
opportunity for us to reinvent ourselves
and so we've re I need to brief you on
it but we've reinvented x prise uh and
I'm excited about that and so there is
you need to be constantly disrupting
yourself and it's tough because we're
lazy in some ways yeah you tell a story
in the book about Elon walking in seeing
him all long-faced and saying what's
wrong walk me through that moment so um
I was amazed so I I've known Elon for 23
20 23 years now and when uh when Falcon
1 which was their first vehicle failed
on the first time the second time the
third time and it succeeded on the
fourth time um they miraculously and
timing is everything got a contract for
the Falcon 9 MH uh which was a a billion
dollar contract and had they not won
that they may not be here today but they
did and Elon made a incredible decision
that took gut he shut down the rocket
line that just began flying and there
were very few successful operations he
said focus on Falcon 9 falcon9 is our
future and so that went on for some
number of years and I was coming into
SpaceX and Hawthorne to have lunch with
him and he was kind of uh you know like
you said long-faced and I'm like what's
what's up and he goes uh I just figured
out now Falcon 9 had been up in
operating and doing damn well it's the
most successful launch vehicle on the
planet by a huge margin right it's like
it's like very few no countries compete
with him he's like the number one space
fairing power and uh and I said what's
wrong he goes I just figured out the
Falcon 9 is not going to get us where we
need to go meaning to Mars right he's
driven by this MTP this massive
transformtive purpose making Humanity
multiplanetary getting Humanity to
Mars and um I need to start uh aresh and
so that has become Starship and then he
goes on to make a a a comment that when
Starship begins uh successfully
operating he's going to shut down the
Falcon 9 line W which again is like it's
like I don't know what the analogy is
but it's like you're the most successful
at the top of the Heap and you're about
to shut down that entire Revenue flow
now whether or not he does or does not
that was the statement he made but it's
that mindset of
focus of absolute Focus I'm going to do
whatever dedication to the big The Big
Goal yeah okay so as somebody who knows
this intimately from the inside the need
to disrupt yourself or somebody else is
going to do it the willingness to look
at something and go okay we're going to
have to start this all over how do you
get your organization on board with that
because the the normal human is going to
rebel against that massively you don't
so the the only model we found that
works at all is to go to the edge of
your organization and build a new
capability aiming into an adjacent area
or totally separate area right so I
remember one of the events of singular
Larry Page came to me and said hey I was
the head of innovation at Yahoo before
building out Singularity and he came to
me and said hey your unit at Yahoo is
successful should I do an incubator
model at Google and I said no you'll
have this immune system response the
more disruptive an idea we came up with
in this incubator the less Yahoo could
handle it and you're like my job
description is is is not workable right
and so the part of of the result of lots
of other inputs was Google X which is
separate going into it they use Hardware
to go into adjacent spaces uh Google car
Google X contact lenses ET
the master of this model of going to the
edge and doing something different is
actually Apple uh and yes they have a
great design capability in a technology
supply chain I argue that Apple's real
Innovation is organizational because
what they do unlike anybody else is they
will form a small team that's really
disruptive put the team at the edge of
the company keep them secret and stealth
and they'll say to them go disrupt
another industry whether it's watches or
retail or payments or glasses or
whatever now so they have a portfolio of
teams looking at different Industries at
the edge in secret And when they see
something they go and do it and that
becomes the new Gravity Center and this
there's hundreds of examples of this
Nestle for years tried to run espresso
as line of business and it just failed
SE finally they set up as a separate
entity on its own boom every hotel room
in the world has an espresso machine and
so that's the only model that we've ever
seen there is one more which is the
dictator it is the uh Larger than Life
leader who says this is what we're doing
if you don't agree with me
leave yeah do we have a good example of
that well Elon and and and Bezos uh as
well Steve Jobs for sure it's like you
know it's the founder leader it's very
hard to do it in a uh an older Legacy
company that's you know hired a CEO but
it's people when you have a strong
enough MTP and the Visionary has a
strong enough MTP and they come to work
for you when they come to work for this
Vision then they will have faith in you
to make those right terms all right
going back to mindset how does somebody
cultivate that in themselves like if you
want to become that guy or gal like what
do you do what is it that an Elon has or
a Steve Jobs has that other people can
replicate so we close out the book with
mindset and uh it's the area I'm
spending most of my time and I'll I'll
phrase it like this for everybody
listening if you look at the most
extraordinary leaders on the planet uh
Mahatma Gandhi Martin Luther King Elon
Musk Steve Jobs Jeff Bezos I don't care
who's on your list and you asked what
made them successful was it the cash
they had the friends they had the
technology they had or was it their
mindset right I think almost everybody
would say it was their mindset your
mindset is how you deal with challenges
and opportunities it's your reaction
it's how your neural net is wired so the
question is if your mindset if you agree
that mindset is the most important thing
a leader can have an entrepreneur can
have what mind do you have first and
foremost where did you get it and then
ask yourself the question what mindset
do you need for the world
ahead and so I posit there's a few key
mindsets um and these are what I teach
in my my abundance Community um uh first
off a curiosity mindset is fundamental I
know you you believe this through and
through aggressively can you go into a
little detail on that like when you say
curious what do you mean so curious is a
willingness to actually dig and ask and
have conversations in the chat GPT world
it's everything right so it's like how
do I use chat GPT open it up and ask it
how do you you know and then ask the
next question the next question next
question so when you have a kid who is
asking you qu go to your 89 10y old self
in that and just be openly curious and
asking as many questions as you can and
going down the rabbit Hall Steve Steve
WN calls it tinkering right we're we're
in the organization can you just tinker
and play
what stops people from tinkering or
being curious time constraint quarterly
targets yeah doing stuff that they were
told is important not having the time uh
you know and I think falling into ruts
so a curiosity mindset especially if
you're an entrepreneur is like one of
the most important things that you can
incubate and have um the second mindset
for me is an abundance mindset um and
the abundance mindset is there is
nothing truly
scarce um we can talk about this also as
first principal thinking you know and
this is one where uh
Elon uh and I have had lots of
conversations about abundance and that
there is nothing truly scarce right that
that your ability as entrepreneur to
take something that was scarce and make
it abundant is what entrepreneurs do
great so you know the perfect example is
uh energy right we used to kill whales
on the ocean to get whale oil to light
our nights then we ravaged Mountain
sides for coal then we drilled
kilometers under the ocean right then we
fracked natural gas but we live on a
planet that's bathed in 8,000 times more
energy from the Sun than we consume as a
species and here's the key point the
energy is there just not in a useful
useful form yet so technology takes
whatever was scarce and makes it usable
and abundant so water is another example
we live on a water planet for God's
sakes right 2/3 water yeah but 97.5% is
salt 2% is ice we fight over a half a
percent but their Technologies
transforming scarcity into abundance and
first principal thinking um I wrote
about this in in Futures faster than you
think uh when Elon decided to make Tesla
um he basically looked at what was the
spot price of lithium and nickel and
could you get the cost of batteries down
from first principal thinking and the
answer is yes we can get it there and
therefore the cars don't have to be that
expensive and that led him to go forward
um long story there uh so that's
abundance thinking that instead of if
you have a pie my favorite example if
you have a pie and friends are coming
over for dinner instead of slicing the
pie into thinner and thinner slices
which is a scarcity mindset you bake
more pies which is an abundance mindset
so we're living in a world where you can
bake more pies everything can be
abundant and I mean my whole mission on
EXT extending the healthy lifespan is
about making time more abundant for
people probably going to take pies out
of that
equation yeah if
you're okay anyway so uh an exponential
mindset a moonshot mindset uh a a
purpose-driven mindset and a gratitude
mindset other other mindsets I I speak
to and we could talk forever about those
but there are mindsets that are
important for us in this day and age
yeah I want to go back to curiosity so
when I think about what derails my my
team I love them to death but one thing
that I've encountered over and over is
When people's ego gets tied up in being
right and they're not just obsessed with
finding the right answer it's because I
think they have not yet accurately
identified the way the world Works which
is that if you are obsessed with being
right you will be wrong most of the time
if you're obsessed with identifying the
right answer then you can actually make
progress and so I mean this is certainly
the Trap that fell pre to in my early
20s that is is like a demarcation Line
in the Sand my life before I realized
that if I built my ego around being
willing to stare nakedly at my
inadequacies and figure out what the
right answer is instead of trying to
position myself to look smart um that I
could actually move forward and that
that switches everything because there's
no there's not only no emotional
friction to admitting that you're wrong
there's like a little twinge of
excitement of like ooh I've gotten this
far being wrong and now somebody's going
to remove the scales from my eyes now I
really can make this forward momentum
but man I really like I for all the time
that I spend on camera telling people
how to think in this way I find it very
hard to get somebody who isn't ready for
that to like hear it make that switch
and change if you guys have the magic
words I'd love to hear them so actually
um this is music TOS in a sense because
uh organizationally individuals are
pretty good we have a lot of tool sets
for transforming individual thinking
Tony Robbins NLP psychedelics nowadays
Etc to to change your own mindset but
the group think that comes inside an
organization is really hard to change
and we what we found in EXO is the
characteristics that add up to an
exponential organization by default have
it be embracing of this mindset so one
of the ways we talk about what we've
done in the same way that a Tony Robbins
you go in there and you completely
change your subconscious state from A to
B right from a scarcity to an abundance
mindent whatever we're able to do that
at the organization level we can take an
organization that is old thinking stuck
in particular markets Etc and you open
it up using a combination of these
characteristics the mindset the MTP Etc
learn how you introduce the ideas but
how do you get them to actually let me
give you the hack I learned this from uh
Astro Teller had him on stage at a360 a
few times and he shared with something
that I love you're you're in the midst
of developing a product everybody's
absolutely sure of what's going on and
how you're going to launch it how it's
going to work and you hand out a piece
of paper to everybody and you say listen
guys it's 6 months from now and the
product has just failed and you know why
it's failed write it down you know
exactly why it's failed write it down
right
now and you are incentivizing someone to
actually flip their situation and look
at the flaws and Elevate those and then
you go around the room and and review uh
why people say it's going to fail and if
you got two or three people saying the
same thing you know it's maybe you got
to look at that test that one first yeah
the other one we've come across that's a
great hack is is Amazon they created
something called the institutional yes
have you ever heard of this so they
realize in any big company it's really
easy to say no one of 20 people can say
no it'll kill the idea if you're in a
startup and you go to one investor and
they say yes you're after the racist so
how do you deal with that impedance
mismatch so they came up with a policy
so that if you're inside Amazon you come
to me with my an idea and I'm your boss
I'm not allowed to say no my default
answer must be yes if I want to say no I
have to write a two-page thesis as to
why it's a bad idea and posted publicly
brilli right so they've created friction
and embarrassment to saying no it's much
easier for me to go H go ahead you'll
fail at the next level anyway da d d d
da and out actually one of the the
outcomes of this policy was Amazon web
services nothing to do with their
strategy not on the road map but nobody
could figure out how to say no to it and
now it's one of the most successful
products of all time delivering I think
75% of their Global profits wow because
nobody could figure how to say no to it
right so we found a collection of little
hacks and cultural Transformations and
companies that allow you to basically
operate in this new modality being very
curious purpose-driven uh constantly
testing assumptions uh using small agile
teams operating at the edges as
autonomously as possible and then
getting the business of the organization
done wow I love that so much uh I've
taken a lot from Bezos over the years
like he's got some really amazing ideas
I do have to chuckle a little bit that
this business genius still got taken
down by dickpics but uh just the human
mind is absolutely hilarious we all
frail but yeah none the look I don't
even throw shade at the guy get it live
your live your best life but uh that's
really brilliant and uh I will Implement
that immediately yeah you we've had the
luxury of watching hundreds of big
companies deal in different ways right
and it used to be that big companies
were terrible at this and then about
five years seven years ago they got
started getting better so instead of a
Google or Yahoo or somebody saying we're
just going to compete with that little
startup they would just buy them
Zuckerberg saw that he was going to get
disrupted by Instagram and and and and
WhatsApp ET bought them instead and in
in general you should leave them alone
over time the corporation can handle it
gets as grubby finger as mess and then
they tend to typically kill it um but
we're starting to learn now if you look
at say Google with llms they were
actually too scared to release them and
Amazon just went let's just go for it
boom and open eye oh sorry uh Microsoft
I was like wait Amazon sorry sorry
microsof just what about Bard what do
you guys think about Bard how's it do uh
very impressive I haven't touched it
we've been playing with it it's very
impressive it's early days yet but I'm
finding fun uh doing stuff on open Ai
and at bar at the same time and
comparing them and there are few places
where opening eye failed and Bard
succeeded and vice versa so they're
they're both uh they're both useful and
um what I I'd like to mention if I could
just because I want to go back to the
the thesis on the on the book um you
know again our mission is to give uh
give people who are running large scale
companies who to survive the next 10
years a series of this is what you
should do if you want to reorganize your
your company and if you're a startup
this is what you should do to be able to
thrive in this decade because the world
has changed I mean fundamentally how you
start a company today and how you
succeed today is very different than 30
years ago um it's very different than
six months ago well yeah true C scares
me for real like we've really just lived
through the most uh disruptive six
months nothing has ever more
instantaneously impacted my business
model the way that I approach my
employees ever than the release
of yeah I mean no honestly that did not
impact my business nearly it did like
the day-to-day as you're not seeing
people but the fundamental way that we
ran our business yeah I do I mean we're
in the world right now where every
doctor in the world is freaked out if
they see this and every lawyer in the
world is freaked out every teacher in
the world is fre love the fact that
open AI chat GPT passed the US medical
licensing exam 2 months after it was
launched right and the bar crazy it it
pass the touring test that was the one I
didn't see coming the signing of the hey
let's slow down letter and so I had um
yashua Benjo on the show was considered
the Godfather of AI and I said hey your
name was on that what made you sign it
and he said in know in certain terms I
did not expect it to pass the touring
test as fast as it did that set off
every alarm Bell that I have and like
pump the brakes this is the thing that
we find most interesting because we've
known imod and all these guys for a
while they are blown away by the success
of these models right so that's really
fascinating that the that the folks
themselves are just blown away and still
early days ladies and gentlemen it's
still early days you know we're going to
see so much more coming and the
recursive nature of self-improving
capabilities you know I showed this um I
showed this work done where a group of
Physicians were shown these case studies
to diagnose a patient and it was like uh
they took 55 minutes and got 60% right
and the AI took like 12 minutes and got
85% right and the Physicians are going
to change next year but the AI will get
much better and'll be you know seconds
and 100% right bro yeah yeah this is
where this gets really interesting so I
know you have another company Fountain
life uh you guys are using AI are you
open to talking about yeah sure so
longevity I couldn't be more obsessed
with the idea and so as you were talking
about it um my first question is how are
you guys going to start getting the
patterns down because to me this is the
big thing you talk to somebody like
Peter AA and he's like look it is just
next to impossible to do really good
studies on diet and nutrition what works
what doesn't work is just too many
confounding variables and I was like AI
is going to answer that like it it can
pull a pattern anything that can be
reduced to a pattern they can figure it
out regardless of like amount of
variables if there is a pattern to be
had it will sus it out and given that we
have some people that live to0 and some
that don't there is a pattern y yeah and
I'll put it this way you there some a
lot of interesting things not only are
there some people who live to 20 and
some people who make it to just 65 there
are large species on this planet like
the boohead whale that lives to 200
years or the Greenland shark that lives
to 500 years and my question is if they
can live that long why can't we and I
said it's either a hardware problem
software a problem all right and we're
going to understand that this decade is
the decade we're going to understand
that it's going to be Ai and Quantum
technologies that give us that Insight
so Fountain life it's just Fountain
life.com um we have these 10,000 square
foot facilities uh we have four of them
right now we have a waiting list of like
50 that we'll build out globally and you
come and we digitize you it's a full
body 150 gigabyte upload of you uh full
body MRI Brain Brain vasculature Brain
function a coronary CT all of this with
AI overlay 80 80 blood biomarkers
genomics met metabolomics you know your
your gut
and then we do this year on year this is
not a oneandone right so in the the
first time you do it we're going to see
is there anything going on that you
should worry about most of us are
optimists about our health and we don't
actually know what's going on inside our
body yeah [ __ ] and by the way the body
is really amazing at hiding disease yeah
I'm going to put myself it's like it's
like you are you think you're fine but
you know 70% of all heart attacks have
no precedent dude that that one freaks
me out that the what the first symptom
of uh heart disease in most men is death
yeah crazy right and 70% of cancers that
kill you are not screened for so it's
this [ __ ] that drives me nuts and so
it's like an idiot not to be looking
inside your body and we used to not look
cuz well if I find out can I do anything
the answer is yes you can so you want to
know and so we screen people first and
then every year upload you every year
and it's looking for the patterns and
what medicines and we have a large
Corpus of data and the AI ability to
analyze that to say with your genome
with your microbiome with these meds
with this um there's going to be huge uh
learnings out of this right and so I'm
trying to
build uh Fountain life into an
exponential organization so I'm building
around this book that we've built and
every company uh I'm involved with is
like we need to use these 10 attributes
in the book otherwise we're not going to
be able to have the impact globally that
we want M what are you going to tell the
AI to look
for um so right now it's it's you don't
have to tell it to look for anything you
have have to ask it to find any kind of
an any kind of anomalous patterns it's
it's you're looking for Trans uh it's
it's data over time so you're looking
for for changes tell me what's changed
tell me what's changing and tell me um
so I'll give you one of the examples
we're building this is a fun part about
Fountain life we're building a brand new
health insurance company on top of it so
uh if you get Fountain life insurance
which is available today your
employees insurance is a perverse
business uh fire insurance pays you
after your house burns down life
insurance pays your next toin after
they're dead health insurance pays you
after you're sick what we've done
instead is when you sign up your
employees go through a set of
pre-testing for us to discover any kind
of disease and prevent it from a big
payout later down the stream right so
it's keeping your employees healthy and
what we want to wa wait wait how does
that model work though so is the
employee paying roughly what they would
pay they're paying exactly the same or
less the numbers are the same and the
the insurance company is actually saying
we're going to do preventative we're
doing preventative testing yes
preventative testing and so here's what
we're doing one of interesting things is
there's a number of expensive tests we
can do and a number of cheap tests we
can do and one of the things we're doing
with AI is correlating which of these
lower-end tests correlate highly to the
expensive tests so you'll do the
lower-end cost test to find a signal in
the noise and then you'll verify with
the expensive test did you see recently
uh uh both Deep Mind and open AI
released weather prediction
models that were accurate 11 days out
whoa so this is fascinating and I saw
this morning a a prediction model on
bitcoin so tell me more Peter yeah well
it was trending up to the end of the
year not a huge amount but it was
trending up I'm a Bitcoin believer but
anyway um so anyway the point being
interesting right can AI make accurate
predictions in
seemingly uh massively complex systems
uh like weather I mean I can't think of
anything more complex than weather or um
the financial markets I mean now it
becomes fascinating if you're actually
able to predict and then the question
becomes well if you can predict that and
I know is that change my behavior when
that in weather no in financial markets
yes yeah um I mean this goes back to uh
you know I I'll ask you the question uh
my thesis is we're living in a
simulation and it's an nth generation
simulation um we're living within the
simulation within the simulation within
the simulation because I think we're
going to have the technology to be able
to do that and we will because we can
um and if that's in fact the case I
would do nothing different than I'm
doing right now um we're in a game how
do you feel about that it's interesting
so the I'm actually wearing the shirt
right now so I'm wearing a shirt for the
video game that I'm building called
project kaisen which takes that as its
hypothesis which is everything you've
ever known is a simulation you have no
body anywhere there is no biological U
uh this is a simulation and then then
once you know it's a simulation then you
can begin to manipulate it effectively
and that is me again as a Sci-Fi writer
trying to explore what it will mean to
understand the rules by which all of
this apparent complexity is born out of
um so I for a long time and look
honestly it's only been in the last like
month or two that I've started thinking
maybe this really is a simulation uh
just because the more I do thought
exercises probing at the edges of what
would it mean for this to be built on a
set of rules and why would it be built
on a set of rules and what built it on a
set of rules you just start asking
things back recursively and look I I map
to what I understand and since I
understand simulations and video games I
map it to that and so there could just
be a fundamental flaw in my thinking and
I'm perfectly happy with that but um it
it does get harder and harder for me to
exempt from the likelihood that this
actually is a simulation so I believe it
inherently and I can't prove it and
again even though I believe it it
doesn't change anything I remember I had
a I was at years ago uh I was at a
birthday party that Elon had Larry paig
and Sergey Bren and Elon and I are
having a conversation before the falling
out um having a conversation about
whether we're living in a simulation and
I I think I think I don't know if it was
Larry or Elon said yeah the only way
we're going to find out is if you try
and tamper with it and the system
resets
you uh I mean it's fascinating I I
wonder if this has been a a subject
conversation um in ancient philosophical
times as well have you ever seen any
references to that Plato's Cave yeah
yeah very much the same idea again
mapping to what he knew he knew
campfires and shadows two dimensions and
three yes exactly so that becomes the
way that you think about it but I I
think as people really begin to
investigate the human mind it is
inevitable that you start going hold on
a second you're seeing the world
differently than me and so then you go
wait a second are either of us seeing
the world the way that it actually is
and then once you understand that we're
not uh that we
necessarily couldn't be that my umelt is
different than a bat's umelt and
therefore we are going to perceive
everything very differently and then you
start going wait a second we're
perceiving the world instead of just
encountering it as it actually is so the
technology that's going to come to make
a dent in that is going to be BCI brain
computer interface right so if I'm able
to connect my mind to your
mind I think there's going to be an
interesting uh set of coral
you know can I so there are dozens of
companies right now working on so you
got 100 billion neurons in your brain
100 trillion synaptic connections and
the neocortex the top layer is your
sensorium and your uh your hongus of
action and all uh your visual cortex
auditory cortex and such and one can
connect the digital signals in your
brain or the electrial signals in your
brain to electrodes and connect them to
computer and those things are happening
right now you know elon's got his neural
link there's a company actually here
called
paradromics um which is doing that as
well um there's a lot of amazing
companies um and so we're going to start
to be able
to understand visually one of my
favorite uh recent
AI blow your mind examples was a group
took subjects and put them inside of a
functional MRI machine which is looking
at blood flow going through different
parts of the tissue in your brain and
the more the blood flow the more the
neurons are active because they're using
more glucose and oxygen and so forth and
they took the output of the
MRI and they fed it into stable
diffusion and they gave the subjects in
the functional MRI machine an image to
look at look at an image of an airplane
look at it and think about that and then
they took the signals out of the fmri
and were able to see the person was
looking at an airplane that's crazy
right and they did so it could interpret
the brain signals to say this is what
you're looking at yes yo awesome that's
mind reading mind reading yes it is mind
reading and so we're heading in that
direction and so one of the things I
think about is um you and I both are not
a
single living organism all right you
have to have to think about that we're a
collection of 40 trillion human cells 30
trillion if you're smaller 50 trillion
if you're
bigger um and those human cells are each
individual living
organisms working together uh
collaborative competing for res
competing but the competing or yes and
supporting each other in that in the you
know distribution of resources you also
have more than those 40 trillion uh life
forms in the form of bacteria and virus
and fungi as an ecosystem in your body
but you're not you know we think of
ourselves as Tom or Peter but we're far
more um I think we're heading towards a
point where if I can connect my brain to
the cloud and you can connect your brain
to the cloud and all of a sudden I've
got Godlike Powers with a small G I'm
omnicient omnipotent I'm not be present
I can know anything I can think and
Google I can look through your eyes
you know or Through The Eyes of someone
watching a sunrise in
Tokyo um it is we're now a meta
intelligence we're at a new level of of
of empathy and connection between humans
you know I love Star Trek as you as you
all know are you treky or or Star Wars
Star Wars I'm so sorry for that you're
wrong you picked the wrong picked the
wrong part but it's okay um you know the
only thing and I you know the only thing
that rbur got wrong was the Borg um you
know the Borg or the you know the evil
um uh uh you
know networked minds but I think I think
we're going to head towards a level of
Consciousness on the planet as we start
to connect Millions tens of millions
hundreds of millions of
individuals um I think we become
conscious at yet another level I call
that a meta intelligence and I think
that's coming as well
uh enabled by AI enabled by this brain
computer interface you can imagine if I
gave you the ability to connect your
brain to the
cloud and you plugged in for that moment
and all of a sudden you could understand
what you want you knew anything you
wanted you were connected to this new
envol of you know of infinite knowledge
and then I unplugged you how would you
feel
I think you'd feel so lonely and
disconnected so I think once you plug in
you know this is more The Matrix than
than not so we can get to one of your
favorite uh genres but I think I think
that's
coming uh enabled by uh by AI you know
um let me go one other slight subject
and then we can you can take it back
where you want uh we just had
visioneering at x prise x prise um we
hold an ual event called visioneering
where we
brainstorm
ideas and um that would become great ex
prises uh and this past visioneering we
had a couple of good AI ex prises one is
AI for
truth um when someone makes a statement
can you have an AI algorithm that's able
very rapidly to say factual truth here's
the roots of that this is opinion or
this is information all right I think
that'd be very useful in our in our
coming world the other one which which
was um AI mediated communication between
any two
species wow right can I talk to Wells or
dolphins in a in a consistent accurate
two-way fashion that would be nuts that
would be
amazing yeah I'd love that for my dog
that would be a trip I know be a trip
take me out food P
me but you know on a consistent basis uh
I mean you can imagine like uh if you
could talk to Welles and dolphins they
would help you explore the oceans or
talk to birds there's a kid that's
missing in the forest here help me find
them dude so that's very interesting and
I know the way your brain works and you
take a very beautiful optimistic look at
that um it would be utterly fascinating
so killer whales are vicious vicious and
they will go eat a great white liver
just because they can and they will toy
with dolphins there are dolphins that
will kill other dolphins and they'll
mess with them uh dolphins that try to
have sex with humans I mean just on and
on like it's crazy and I have a feeling
that were we to actually be able to
communicate with animals it may be a
little more distressing than we want to
believe I read a story a long time ago
and I did find this very interesting
this speaks to your inter interpretation
of the Borg as being a misread and it
was these creatures that had these taals
that had like these almost fiber optic
tendrils and when they would connect
them sounds like Avatar yes I would be
shocked if he hadn't read the story
because it is very similar to that but
this was years ago I read this probably
30 years ago 35 years ago and uh they
would connect their tales and they would
instantly know the entire history
emotional Mila of the person they were
connecting
and what was interesting was how once
you could no longer lie or hide anything
from anybody there was there was a
relaxed sort of acceptance this who I am
like it or not this is who I am you got
your own [ __ ] I've got mine I mean
honestly and when I think about it uh on
a on a relationship side and this is
something that you know talk to Lisa
more about the ability to be
absolutely brutally honest about your
feelings about your desires about
everything you've ever done I mean how
many people actually have people in
their lives
that know everything about you where
there's zero to hide I mean it's like
like in a relationship and you look at a
woman and go wow she's gorgeous and
you're willing to say that and and or
you know something that you were ashamed
of having done but everything is fully
disclosed I think that level of
intimacy would be
amazing amazing it would be you you oh
man the the Symmetry that would have to
be there though because if there's even
slight imbalance of sure and and
therefore a lot of relationships would
not
work but when they do
click um and there's full disclosure and
your deepest likes deepest fears are
fully known to both sides it is a a
level of complete honesty and I mean
someone who knows you as well as you
know yourself I mean that I mean we're
going in a very different conversational
subject but um I I think that is a that
was something I would desperately love
and I have a few friends in my life
where it's like they know almost
everything possible and it's not that I
wouldn't disclose things to them it's
just we've never had those
conversations and those are people is to
me right for whatever dysfunction I have
only my wife knows me like that mhm I I
don't know why I uh I don't well just
share them with share it with me now
right now yeah there you go live live on
camera um and then you have a billion
people know about it the funny thing is
I don't actively hold things back like
I'm a pretty open book but it is like
there's something about sharing your
life with somebody where they see all
the like what do you like when you're
sick what do you like when something
goes really well when something goes
poorly and there's there's just too much
intimacy for there to be any posturing
whatsoever because they just see you too
often um yeah it's interesting so these
are the things that AI are going to
enable you know uh
imagine with this level of BCI where you
can't lie I mean interesting right
because you could probably make up uh
simulated truths that you honestly
believe and people do do do that anyway
going back uh where do you want to take
this back to Let's rewind the tape here
well so the thing that I want to know so
this is all very interesting to me in
terms of where this goes and how far out
it gets and it really does become quite
fascinating but right now there are
tremendous opportunities for people that
really understand what's going on uh
obviously bold Capital this is a big
part of where you place your bets is do
I understand a little bit more than
other people where this is all going
so what what is the right now today
Bridge what are the opportunities that
somebody listening to this should
understand whether it's AI Quantum
Computing longevity where are the big
opportunities so I I believe without
question the two biggest business
markets on the planet are Ai and
Longevity right uh if you think about
from a national standpoint a national
leader of a
country uh should care about the health
and the uh the integral of intelligence
over their country if you could increase
the intelligence of your nation by 20%
right or the health of your nation by
20% massive right or in a company
increase the intelligence of your of
your uh your Workforce or the health of
your Workforce these are huge levers to
move you know I'm often um
keynoting inside of companies or YPO
event or other you know uh about those
two subjects I mean that's my typical
like that's all that matters right now
ai and Longevity and and I'll ask people
in know in you know a wealthy group um
uh individuals I honestly how much of
your Capital would you give up for an
extra 20 healthy
years um and if they're honest about it
it's well over 50% of of their of you're
going to spend it anyway at the end of
your life yeah right trying to like deal
with when you give 100% I think people
would but then they say well I'm going
to leave it to my kids or I'm going to
leave it to my philanthropy or whatever
the case might be hold on hold on hold
on I want to paint a
scenario you you are before I I am I am
with you I'm listen I don't want to
leave on their behalf I want to
understand this mindset because this is
shocking to me uh you before a credible
Source let's call this credible Source
God just to make it easy and God is like
hey bro button on the left uh you get 20
extra years but you're going to give me
every dime all of your assets everything
button on the right you die tomorrow but
you get to give your family all your
assets yeah you're telling me that there
are people that hit the button 100% Who
because uh people want to leave a legacy
why the hell do you give a billion
dollars to
Harvard um do they really need another
billion dollars you know you want a
legacy there people want to know that
they're going to live that their legacy
is going to live after them whether it's
in the form of their kids or the form of
their name and so yeah um there's a
balancing act maybe it's 20% that they
would hold back uh those are not the
buttons before you there is no 20%
there's all or nothing but you wow okay
uh that's crazy to me and but going back
to your question I think longevity is
one of the largest business
opportunities that's going to
materialize over the de how you take
advantage of it what what are you doing
to be ahead of the curve um uh well
building companies there in that so
Fountain life is s my my biggest company
I'm building for a global footprint for
enabling everyone to have access to the
best Therapeutics and the best
Diagnostics right the Diagnostics are is
there anything going on inside your body
right now you need to know
about if there is you want to know
because you can take action we find 2%
of the people who go through Fountain
life have a cancer they don't know about
2 and a half% of an aneurism they don't
know about 14.4% have either uh
metabolic disease NE neurod degenerative
disease cardiovascular disease something
you need to take action on right away
and so the thesis there is your body no
longer needs to be a black box yes the
the thesis is your body is amazingly
good at hiding disease incredibly good
and you're better off confronting you're
better off knowing as early as you can
because you can do something about all
of these things and why now what what is
now because because the tech is there to
image in High Fidelity without the false
negatives and the tech is there to
understand what the data means right so
friend of mine super successful
individual um who I'm doing business
with in in Fountain life and and uh and
he wanted to go through The Experience
goes through the experience and we
discover two aneurysms in his brain wow
serious aneurysms he's in surgery a week
later they're they're clipped and
blocked and he's fine in that threat but
um had he not it was a ticking Time Bomb
for him right we all know people who
have oh my God they died in their
sleep um or they go to the hospital and
the doctor says I'm sorry to tell you
this but you got stage three or stage 4
whatever is it didn't happen that
morning it's been going on for some time
you just don't know how so the stats are
the following 70% of people who have a
heart attack had no previous
symptoms right uh you don't detect
cancer until it's stage three or four
from a pain or something going on it is
a slow your body is amazingly good at
hiding it uh you don't de develop a uh
parkinsonian Tremor until 70% of the
substanti [ __ ]
uh uh neurons are gone and
so you need to look and people say I
don't want to know I say [ __ ] of
course you want to know as early as you
can fully know because there's now
things you can do about things you can
do about it for sure medicine has
progressed incredibly well and it's
moving and if you're wealthy you want to
know because I want to fund the research
to solve that thing right so um in
Fountain the two questions is is
something going on you know about
today and if there isn't fantastic I go
every year for my upload and then I'm
tested throughout the year on stuff that
I'm incrementally improving the second
thing is what are you likely to develop
and how do we push that off how do we
solve that how do we reduce your chance
of heart neurovascular you whatever it
might
be uh so that's what I'm building I've
built a couple of companies one in stem
cells with Bob huri who's a CEO there
called cellularity and the one called
vaccin that's developed vaccines so
vaccines are amazing things your your
brain is the most complicated machine in
the universe that we know of your immune
system is the next your immune system is
protecting you against infectious
disease and against cancers right we're
all developing cancers all the time and
your immune system your natural killer
cells find those cancer cells right cuz
cells replicate a certain number it's
called the ha flick limit you know 50 60
replications and then they should have
the decency to die
if they don't they can become scile
cells putting out inflammatory factors
or they can become cancer cells Immortal
cells and they
grow
and your natural killer cells detect
those cancer cells and zap
them but as you grow older you have
something called imuno exhaustion your
immune system starts to slow down and
you don't detect it and they can start
to grow and so so if you can find
cancers on MRI there are things called
the gr test which take a liquid biopsy
blood biopsy and looking for cancer DNA
in your bloodstream and so you can you
can do something about these
now um
so uh vaccines I was that's where I was
I was talking about vaccines so vaccines
we know about it from mRNA vaccines for
uh from for covid and such but we can
now develop vaccines to activate your
immune system
to fight cancer like like go attack that
you can vaccinate against cancer where
there are cancer vaccines now being
developed the first one that was
approved by the FDA was for melanoma
which is one of the most deadliest
cancers uh one of my companies vaccin
has a vaccine in phase two for
Parkinson's uh uh going to phase three
for
Alzheimer's we have a uh a phase one
asset in hypercholesteremia so going a
vaccine which goes you vaccinate
yourself um it activates your immune
system to go and go after a particular
enzyme in the liver called
pcsk9 which creates the bad cholesterol
LDL low density lip of proteins um and
That vaccine which you'd vaccinate
yourself twice a year for two injections
a year injections might be 20 bucks 50
bucks basically drops your cholesterol
level down so I have hypercholesteremia
in my family um my dad had very high
cholesterol whole slew of medical stuff
so I'm very sensitive to
it um I don't want to do statins I take
a very small amount of Statin for an
anti-inflammatory effect that's a
different story but I take something uh
called a um uh I take something called
ratha which is a uh uh a
uh
antibody that's manufactured in a
vat um and I get a few MLS of this and I
have to inject it every two weeks that
antibody goes to that pcsk9 enzyme in my
liver and blocks it from producing LDL
now it cost me $10,000 a year and I have
to do it every 2 weeks but it drops my
LDL level down into a beautiful green
zone h
I'm using these antibodies produced in a
manufacturing plant and Shi to
me what we built in vacinity was a
vaccine that I inject and it causes my
own immune system to manufacture that
same antibody for
free to block that PCS can9 enzyme that
make sense yes and you're doing that now
yes I'm not well we're developing the
back
right now the first results were amazing
we're you know going from phase one into
phase two uh long story short the
ability um there are these monoclonal
antibodies uh which are like the top
selling
drugs and uh it's using these antibodies
which are proteins to go and block a
certain process we talked about that a
little bit earlier but they're
expensive but the idea now is instead of
Manu facturing these monoclonal
antibodies in a in a vat in a Pharma
manufacturing plant can you just teach
your own immune system to produce that
same
antibody and that's the future of uh of
vaccines your vaccine um the vaccine is
playing your immune system like an app
okay let me see if I can boil that down
to a thesis so for somebody that is
trying to figure out where the
opportunities are right now because
we're living in this hyper disruptive
time yeah I want people to be aware of
the ways in which things are being
disrupted so that they can go in and
take advantage there's so okay so I'm
going we're going back to the investment
side here so listen uh we're in the
middle of a biotech winter right now
just to be clear there was um if you
look at all the biotech companies out
there they're significantly
depressed so if you're playing the
public markets and you find companies
that have good cash position and to have
uh strong potential drug candidates it's
a great time to buy because the stocks
are all like 10 or 100 fold depressed so
I just put that out there one second um
I think Health uh I think the medical
system the Health Care system is so
broken it's pathetic I think we're going
to I think it's going to crumble on
under its own weight and so we're going
to reinvent how we deliver healthc care
I think at home you're going to all be
we're all going to be monitored so I'm
wearing a continuous glucose monitor
right now I've got my aura ring I've got
my Apple watch there's going to be a
whole slew of wearables all of that
wearable data is going to monitor me
247 so one of the things we we do at
Fountain as well is we bring in all your
wearable data so in between your annual
uploads which are deep dives into you
we're monitoring what's going on so
we're g to see are you making
recommendations based on what you see
absolutely absolutely so for supporting
your sleep for supporting your diet so
my my continuous glucose monitor right
and there's companies like levels or
there's free Libre there's others that
measure how your body reacts to eating
those peanuts or that Snickers bar and
how quickly your blood sugar elevates
and how quickly it goes back down and
based upon that you know uh going into
pre-diabetic or becoming a
diabetic your glucose is is a poison in
the body I don't know people realize
that our bodies were never designed to
eat as much sugar as we do and glucose
sticks to
proteins and then your immune system
sees that glycosilated protein as a
foreign and attacks it and causes
inflammation so a lot of cardiovascular
disease and neuroinflammatory disease is
a result of people's
diet but you don't talk about that no
one talks about that okay so um I was
going somewhere slightly different when
I said thesis so I don't necessarily
mean investing but I mean if I can
create an
overarching
uh thesis on what it is that links all
this stuff together uh so your
interpretation of where we are in the
world right now as I understand it is uh
your body no longer needs to be a black
box yes we now have the Imaging capacity
to see what's going on we have the
ability to do something about it there
are Therapeutics that are advancing now
very rapidly yes where you can Leverage
The Body Z own systems in in
a um intentionally triggered fashion
whether that's through vaccines whether
that's through some other mechanism um
but we're getting we have a deep enough
understanding of the body's mechanisms
that were able to trigger those and get
them to go in and clean up whether it's
LDL or something else and people need to
realize that your
health is something you can do something
about and if I I think about having a
longevity mindset and what does a
longevity mindset mean it means I
believe and I do believe this that this
next decade we're going to see
incredible
progress and 10 years from now we're
going to have the ability to live an
extra 20 healthy years what do you think
that progress is going to be in the
ability to manipulate the immune system
so so I think it's uh a lot of what
we're doing on this exerprise we just
announced right so we get um $101
million from Evolution uh from Chip uh
chip Wilson who is uh the founder Lulu
Lemon who put up you know 26 million
plus another $10 million purse for his
disease called fshd it's a muscular
distrophy and we're asking teams to
reverse the functional loss in muscle
immune and cognition right so you're
moving well you've got great immunity
and you're thinking clearly and so over
the next seven years we're going to have
incredible progress in those
areas that's one of
the the I don't to call it uh it's one
of the thrusts that I'm focused on
moving the needle forward and so if you
believe that we're going to have
this uh this progress your longevity
mindset needs to be I'm going to do
whatever it takes to live long enough to
intercept these other breakthroughs so I
I arrive at this point in reasonably
good
health so for me that's the thesis that
we're going to have these breakthroughs
from biotech from from cellular
medicines from Gene therapies from
crisper Technologies from all of these
things from Ai and if I'm able to keep
myself in good enough health I'm going
to intercept these and it's going to buy
me the next 20 years and during that
time they're going to be additional
breakthroughs will buy me the next 20
years if you want that if you love life
and you want to see what's coming in the
next you know Century um there's good
reason for you to take care of yourself
what does that look
like taking care of yourself right now
there are things that people need to be
doing um and I I just you know I wrote a
book that just came out called uh
longevity your practical
Playbook um I've you know I just wrote a
book last year with Tony Robbins called
life force we we did a conversation
about that great book and it's 700 pages
and it's amazing and very few people get
through a 700 page book so I wanted to
write a very practical book that looks
at and says this is what I'm doing and
this is what I think um is science backs
and I put it into uh a few very simple
chapters number one what to do about
diet because there are fundamental
things we can come back to that
sleep um exercise like the most
important thing right you think exercise
is more important than diet and I'll
come back come back to that so they're
all important you know diet sleep
exercise mindset super important not
dying from something stupid which I call
doing your upload at Fountain like
knowing what's going on inside your body
and then meds and supplements so the
book looks at that I actually uh I made
a reduction that was the word a
reduction of that into what I call my uh
my practical my you know Peter's
longevity practices which I have a copy
of over there which is free for people
it's a 25 30 page like this is what I'm
doing and why at DM andis.com DM
andis.com
longevity um and you can get my book
there you can get this uh this PDF
download um and it's it's very
definitive so listen there's no one diet
for everybody I've been a vegan I I've
been uh you know keto diet I'm mostly
Mediterranean but the things I've
discovered is number one sugar is a
poison um minimizing your sugar and and
why whole plants are critically
important even the order in which you
eat your food matters like if you're
given like you go out to for dinner at a
restaurant when they bring you the bread
and the wine ask him to bring it back
during the dinner
course um if you're going to eat the
bread at least dip it in olive oil first
glucose talking about not spiking your
glucose immediately right which is the
worst you can do it really drives you to
so why bring it back is it eating
proteins first so what you want to do is
on your plate eat your vegetables first
if it's if it's asparagus if it's
broccoli if it's a salad the fiber slows
down your digestion eat your protein
next and then eat your carbs
last um it slows down your sugar spike
it actually allows you to absorb the
best nutrients out of your PL of food
first so even making that small you'll
lose weight you'll get better nutrition
and you'll actually feel full having
eating the best stuff first right it's
just a really small trick that I'm just
like you know once I learn that it's
like okay I need to tell everybody about
it's a small the order in which you eat
your food matters right so there's a
whole bunch about diet there um
exercise is probably the single most
important thing I have stepped up my
exercise from like 2 or 3 days a week to
5 days a week your physique has changed
dramatically yeah I've added muscle it's
my goal to add muscle muscle is one of
the most important uh
previty parts of your life are you doing
trt uh I am I do take a certain amount
of testosterone and it's simply I don't
actually feel different I am taking a
small amount of testosterone uh simply
to support muscle grow base it on blood
levels I do uh
I I'm staying in like
800 uh range and sometimes up to a
thousand but does it increase your
libido it doesn't it doesn't it it
doesn't touch my
libido I mean my libido is fine but I
don't if I'm off it or on it it doesn't
make a difference and you know people
who've got you know I don't think I I
exhibit grouchy old man syndrome so I'm
I'm you know I'm like the most positive
person I know no doubt um but I'm using
it specifically for supporting muscle
mass but then I'm doing 150 grams of
protein a day I'm having creatin I'm
taking amino acid supplementation I'm
focused on adding muscle mass um as you
grow older adding muscle becomes harder
and harder yeah and one of the
unfortunate mechanisms that a lot of
people die as they go into their 70s and
80s I'm 62 right now is uh you fall
because of muscle weakness you break a
pelvis or a hip you end up in the
hospital it's painful to breathe you get
a pneumonia and you're down for the
count right it's happened to my dad
happens a lot of people and the survival
rate post to hip or pelvis fracture if
you're over 70 is like really low so you
don't want to do that you want to
maintain muscle mass it also maintains
your stem cell population and your blood
um in your in your muscle so um there's
an interesting stat I memorized this one
cuz it was important if you're over 60
and you can exercise doesn't have to be
super intense but some resistance
exercises can be with with or without
weights twice a week uh it reduces your
all cause mortality by 50% and reduces
your chance of cancer by threefold waa
yeah your body um the signals you give
your body from exercise and moving is
that I'm still useful I still want to be
here right the other thing in the mental
game is don't retire you know Google the
correlation between retirement and death
it's like five years W it's really so
you know when you retire and you don't
feel purpose in your
life you know um I'm going to read
something from this is uh the longevity
practices book and there's a a section
on mindset here and I just think it's
really so important so um I'm going to
read this to you it says in a study of
69,7 44 Women and 1429 men this is
unusual because it's more women than men
published in the prestigious Journal
proceedings of the National Academy of
Science you know super high-end
peer-reviewed publication it was found
that optimistic people lived as much as
15% longer than pessimists 15 15
wow pretty amazing your mindset matters
and you know making use of your body and
being out there and having purpose and
all of these things are subtle Clues
right we all know people that very close
to their husband or wife and their
spouse dies and then they die weeks
later right here's another uh here's
another story here one of my favorite
stories illustrating uh illustrating the
power of Mind Over uh a lifespan comes
from the anals the anals of American
history as it turns out in an
extraordinary demonstration of the will
to live two of America's founding
fathers Thomas Jefferson and John Adams
both willed themselves to live long
enough to see the 50th anniversary of
the Declaration of Independence even
though in the early 1800s the average
lifespan was only 44 years old Jefferson
who was then 83 and Adams who was 90
made it made it to July 4th 1826 both
dying on that exact date the th
anniversary of the nation's founding wow
amazing I didn't know that yeah I love
that story um having purpose in life
being optimistic making use of your body
all of these things are fundamental and
when I think about a longevity mindset
it is really you know I live with this
every day I care about this every day I
am I think this is the most exciting
time ever in human history to be alive
with what's going on and opening up the
space Frontier with a because of the
rate of change because of the rate of
change because of the rate of potential
it's like an infinite you know I mean if
you were born a 100 years ago and every
year right at my abundance 360 Summit I
look back 100 years and I look at like
what was life like 100 years ago and
what was the rate of innovation 100
years ago and the numbers and the
examples are craz slow and I don't
remember 18 1923 I remember 1922 there
were seven breakthroughs in that year I
not like seven in a week or seven in a
month it was seven in the entire year
and I searched everywhere patent filings
headlines writeups and so it was like it
was like the uh uh uh water ski was
invented uh the me a mechanical uh uh
mechanical garage door opener uh a
retractable roof for the Ford Model T um
uh
vomite was on the list I mean I was
searching for stuff I was searching for
Stuff one of the seven is VE blender a
blender um for making malts and it was
like the pace of change was so
slow and we're living in a world today
where there's like massive breakthroughs
you know every hour of the day it's a
rate of change though that I think now
is giving people anxiety how do you how
do you help people navigate
that um because I think that the ability
I define entrepreneurs as people who
find problems and solve
problems and I think entrepreneurs are
more empowered than ever before to solve
problems and that uh that they are
entrepreneurs are in our world creating
a better and more capable world I mean I
think we take for granted the fact that
you know on our phone we've got what we
would have spent tens of millions of
dollars if it was even possible 20 years
ago for two-way free video conferencing
all right every every game every book
every piece of music accessible for free
and we forget with the incredible world
we live in uh I think people who are
more in uh
teaching meditation and spirituality
going to help people deal with the with
the uh uh anxiety but I want folks to
realize the magical Universe they're
they're living in you know I think about
creating a world in which every mom
knows her
kids has access to the best health care
education all the food water energy
right this is the world of abundance I I
I you know when I first wrote abundance
with Steven Cotler 12 years ago IAL
about creating a world not of luxury but
a world of
possibility right and I still believe
that and there's no velocity switch
there's no onoff switch to this
technology it's happening uh so what do
you dream about what do you wish you had
what do you want to do I mean you can
put it all away and go live in the
forest um people and people will but
most choose not to I am very much much
uh um what do they call that where
materialist like it's all cause and
effect the odds that our sense of
um that I control my life is probably an
illusion and yeah that just all makes
sense to me like if you had a computer
that could track every atom since the
beginning of time that you'd be able to
predict where we're going to be in 10
years and you'd be able to replay the
universe all the way back to the big
bang that just makes sense to me and
that doesn't diminish my sense of awe in
this
like I look at and by the way I I I
asked the question if you knew with
certainty that you were living in a
simulation would it change anything and
the no a no B so you were talking about
project Kaizen before we started rolling
that's its premise is that this is a
simulation and it doesn't matter it's
still all the same I think it's great
you know so if I could finish that story
with this weird coincidence I got to a
point about 5 seven years ago where I
was having not this insane kind of
coincidence used to happen about once a
year in my life started happening
quarterly and then it started happening
every two weeks and I can barely process
one in the next ridiculous coincidence
on me and I was freaking out because I
was like really messing with things so I
have a a cousin who's done 40 Years of
DS meditation in the woods Etc so I said
to her she's my resident understanding
the universe person so I said help me
with this she's like well listens to me
for a bit she goes well duh you've told
the universe you're ready for anything
they'll give you everything
I'm like wait what she go you have to
come to an agreement with the energies
in the universe to only give it to you
when you're ready for it I'm like
where's the manual for that so she
coached me on this and and you can do
this you can do it's you know if you if
you did it at the fully reductional
level it's creative visualization right
you visualize what you want and Things
Can Happen Etc um and there's a we all
do that you do that that's what the MTP
is all about right you you you program
yourself in your surroundings your
subconscious to out for the outcomes you
want and then those things happen but
there's a but but those outcomes occur
to a large degree because I'm outwardly
communicating my massive transformative
purpose I'm telling the world those
people who gravitate to it are coming to
me and they're bringing things to me
that are in line with that MTP it's not
like I'm just meditating on on in
silence and the world is changing but
what you're actually doing is you're
programming reality or I'm programming
how I deal with reality both right
reality is happening and again a mindset
is how I deal with opportunity or
scarcity someone comes to me with
something that someone would be scared
of and I'm like excited about it and I
go in a different course than the other
person so I didn't know you'd done
psychedelics what was your response so
you guys have both done it I assume yeah
I I went I went into a you know
psychedelics not for Joy or pleasure but
with uh with Shaman guiding and I have
done iwaska a number of times I've done
uh a combination of psilocybin and um
and uh uh MDMA uh but for me it was my
DMT Journeys that were the most
significant have you done D I haven't
done any I've micro Doocy to virtually
no effect so the uh the DMT which is
also called the toad or bufo uh dimethyl
tryptophan I think is is dimethyl
tryptamine tryptamine um was uh was
extraordinarily compelling um and uh it
is a dissolution of the ego um which is
and a connection with the universe that
lets you know that love is a pervasive
force and we're all connected in that
regard and that I had my most
significant
um visualization about if you ask me the
question uh what do you think happens
after
after we're alive after we die uh that
was my that was it first of all it got
rid of the fear of death 100% which is
probably the most extraordinary because
it gave you realize everything is
connected everything is connected and
we're just part of the universe and it's
it's a transitory so I want you to
imagine this is the visualization I had
which gives me goosebumps still to this
day uh I'm
I'm coming out of my journey with in
these in these uh DMT journe Journeys
are very short uh you know 20 minutes
thereabouts unless you're s because they
last longer there uh but let me finish
so I'm I'm seeing this this sea of
energy just like a frothing sea of
infinite energy a plane of energy in
every direction and I see coming out of
the Sea of energy
two double
heles and they come out of the energy
and they're there and then they go back
into the energy and that was it and it
was the really
ization I can see it like it was
yesterday it's a realization of this
Infinity of of creation and energy and
life emerges from it Consciousness
emerges from it and then re-enters it I
can you know listen this is my mind
giving it meaning we are meaning making
machines but so let me so you've had
that you're just kind of rationalizing
it in your previous experience that's
fine that's fine but let me give you
tell you why I got excited by this whole
world 12 we had a lecture at Singularity
I think it was Chris disarm and he what
he'd been doing was doing a whole bunch
of clinical trials with people taking
different dosages of MDMA psilocybin Etc
and putting them through an fmri machine
so in the 60s when Timothy lri and all
these guys were taking drugs they had no
idea where they were just chucking it
down right but this now we know exactly
that this dosage substance of substance
a will do this to neural circuit B and
know exactly the emphasis and how much
of an impact it'll have Etc and I found
that fascinating because now we have a
feedback loop what got me interested in
DMT a feedback loop to what end well
because now you can see what neural
circuits are being Amplified or imp
impacted you can now play with play with
okay so I have to ask then so knowing
how you're creating that state by
manipulating certain neurons in your
brain how how it do you see an allergy
or a scar I don't know that I I wish I
did I don't but it's fascinating that
that's there the numbers that it's there
if it happened three four times you go
ah 3 four times 3,500 times I got I got
to start looking at that and that's
that's the just the sheer numbers compel
you to look at it a little more deeply
but so for me now it look let's look at
what DMT does DMT what it does is
suppress the pride alobe which is where
your sense of self sits when you can
take a dosage of it you suppress that
Pride lobe and you are now free to
explore the higher Realms of your
Consciousness that you didn't have
access to before is so when DMT is going
is that all that's happening is is are
there any areas that are more active or
is it literally just shutting off the
sense of self unclear but it seems the
primary function is that reduces the uh
activity in the parietal lobe I'm so
fascinated by and then you start looking
at other areas and now what's really
interesting to me on top of that is we'
it turns out there's lots of old
practices whirling dervishes when they
do their their Turkish spinning end up
with a DMT release they now know that
DMT natural is naturally occurring in
your brain it gets released twice in
your life once at Birth once at death so
when people have a near-death experience
they see the white light that's DMT
releasing in the brain interesting so
now they've found religious experiences
almost all religious experiences are
essentially you work the physiology of
the body to a point where you have a DMT
release Tantra and Kundalini work
results that they take ground energy
lift it through your body and you end up
with a DMT I don't take the DMT Journey
um lightly at all it's one of the most
insightful and again I I I experienced
it with reverence uh and and awe and um
as a means to
explore uh myself and the universe in a
in a in a different way and I'm very
thankful for it h yeah I'm very
intrigued I ask about this a lot and by
the way you know I I got to a point
afterward I said I'm just going to open
share it openly I don't plan to run for
president and I don't care uh what
anybody thinks about it it was
critically important to me yeah
beautiful you met Michael jansson a
couple of days ago um so one of the most
fascinating things about him he's one of
the most present people I've ever met
and I said how do you maintain this like
you have this incredible ability to just
let things go not worry about stuff
things happen everything just passes
through them and and it doesn't stick
it's amazing he just kind of go releases
instantly and he I he couldn't answer
and I kept wanting to pull it out and he
goes oh I've done a hero dose a few
times I go hero dose so normal dose I
guess is 100 milligrams of psilocybin a
hero dose is when you do like five grams
it's like a factory reset on your
nervous system I'm like holy crap you've
done that he goes I do it every year and
and so all the cognitive biases that he
may have built up Etc are constantly
getting released and therefore he
operates in this unbelievably present
form I think that's just amazing and I'm
completely impressed by the younger
generation micro doing all time you know
one of the conversations uh I've been
having at home recently is is the human
species um waking up right you've heard
of these conversations Sam Harris and
all I was going to ask you guys if
you've heard him describe his heroic
dose and and so when we talk about
becoming conscious at a species level in
the next uh foreseeable future one of
the questions that um uh that Kristen
asked was are we becoming conscious
before AI becomes conscious H so this is
an interesting
conversation that would be I mean it
would be very interesting I don't know
if I can imagine an entire societal
level Awakening but certainly as humans
continue to progress as we are able to
share ideas so much faster in the same
way that culture has stacked on the
technological side if it stacks on the
Insight side and well imagine having a
brain computer interface connection to
the cloud along with a billion other
people and sharing one's thoughts I I
call this The Meta intelligence where we
become conscious on a large level right
you and I and Saleem are all collections
of 40 trillion human cells you're not a
single life form you are 40 trillion
human cells and then trillions of
bacteria VY fungi and so forth but you
operate As One MH right and so are we
going to become conscious yet on another
level to bring it back to exponential
organizations um a traditional 20th
century organization we would think of
as unconscious it's trundling along
trying to get profits Etc and an EXO is
a very conscious organization what makes
it conscious
MTP it's massive purpose plus it's
constantly sensing with a feedback loop
it's constantly experimenting it's
allowing its people to operate in a
decentralized autonomous way to make
decisions on their own it's like an
amiba moving around uh sensing the world
and little by little evolving so there
are I want I want to bring this back
because I really want the community here
to hear this and I want to use um I use
impact Theory as the example here so uh
there are 10 attributes that make an
exponential organization um they have
the uh the uh acronym uh scale and
ideas and um if we could I just want to
take off the ones that that you hit so
let's begin staff on demand H people
cont we do a bit but I actually don't
love that it was one of the things in
your book I want to talk about but so
okay staff on demand yes we do okay
second Community yes very much Community
is massive for you right um third Ai and
algorithms yes aggressively aggressively
fourth leveraging other people's assets
don't know what you mean by that cloud
computing yes you don't have computers
servers in your closet that you're using
we do have some of that but not nearly
as much as we Leverage The Cloud the
Prototype there is Airbnb that entire
business model is tapping into other
people's bedrooms making them available
and the four the fifth one in scale is
engagement gamification incentive prizes
which is we it's your whole thing right
you're like a master of that so those
are the five externalities and EXO use
one or more of them allows them to keep
a very small resource footprint and then
scale very quickly right Ted uses
Community very effectively for example
then there's five internal mechanisms
that allow you to manage culture and
drive the dashboard and the control
framework of the organization the first
is interfaces to those externalities so
think about Uber's interface with its
drivers or Apple's interface with its
App Store developers it's an automated
API driven interface that allows you to
programmatically manage the abundance on
the outside and then add value to it the
second one is dashboards and this is
real-time business metrics to track
what's happening in the I assume you use
dashboards left right and Center not as
much as we should but for our funnels
yes for your funnels sure and then okr
is for team performance and Team
Management we found as so those are
dashboards the E is experimentation
which is Lean Startup thinking
constantly testing assumptions non-stop
running of experiments and the a culture
of risk taking inside the organization
constantly testing the edges and seeing
what works what doesn't work etc the is
autonomy decentralizing decisionmaking
and allowing people to self- select what
they want to work on as much as possible
which is one of the hardest things for a
CEO or an entrepreneur to do is is say
listen here's our mission our mission is
10 million viewers whatever it is doing
this and this and this we want to give
you the authority and autonomy to go and
work on projects that are aligned with
our MTP
go Google does this a bit um the master
of this I I should tell this quick story
there's a Chinese appliance manufacturer
called high h i e r they make like 55
million fridges and ovens here Jesus
yeah it's a huge company um and uh um
880,000 people operating in a classic
pyramid form command and control
hierarchical is hack CEO one day decides
can't meet my corporate goals with this
structure blows it up turns 80,000
people into 2,000 teams of about 40
people each each team has a p&l Target
each team elect their own leader and
most insane each team decides to do
whatever they want to
do now you go to any business school in
the world say I want to make 55 million
fridges and they'll tell you you need a
ton of centralized demand forecasting
inventory manages supply chain d d turns
out you don't these literally these
2,000 teams work autonomously like a
beehive every team is deciding what they
want how do they decide what teams to
keep they don't they the teams decide on
their own you can't get fired if you you
can't if your team doesn't meet its p&l
targets you have an issue and the way
they meet the pnl targets is they work
on a product and the products are the
revenues are pulled against that product
so when they I literally can't imagine
this there's a whole there's a whole
book written on this it's an amazing
case study what's the book called I'll
get you the title of case stud is higher
um and when they want to vote on what
when what decide what features should we
go into the new fridge they vote and
2,000 teams that are constantly
outwardly facing with vendors suppliers
Partners customers are come up with a
much better decision than some product
strategy team hold up with Market
forecasts and research groups right and
so uh GE Appliances actually gave up and
sold that whole division to higher
because they couldn't compete because
you can do so much more with a
decentralized organization we're not
quite ready for Dows but we will be over
time and you're kind of building one in
in its I'm not I'm violently not
building a dow well think about what
you're doing right with your metaverse
environment anybody can come
self-provision and play in that
environment they can play in that
environment they're certainly trying to
build things so that they can build in
that environment but that is that's a
platform play like I get platforms and
so our fantasy would be on a long enough
timeline where like the YouTube of video
games that's right so people can come in
and build not we we could go down a
rabbit hole about how we're going to be
different than Roblox but we have a
vision but leveraging some of that but
this is like I literally wrote before
you started talking the thing I want to
talk about is how you leverage autonomy
so the way that we think about it at
impact theory is I want people to be
able to make decisions in their area
like okay your function is art for
instance I'm not going to come in and
turn you into a pair of hands I want you
to think for yourself you understand our
objectives go do the art thing but we
set the objectives as a company then the
department sets their own objectives and
then the individual works with their
supervisor to set it yeah but this is
not hey you're in a team of 40 and like
oh I hope you meet your p&l like I can't
fathom how you get to that I have to
imagine that this is never going to be
the standard it's non-trivial to
implement but when you can Implement is
very powerful let me give you two
examples that bridge the Spectrum one is
if you're an employee and you join
Google as a new hire okay you're not
placed on a team what they do is go
you've got six months float around meet
different teams work with them da d d d
da how do they decide to hire you you
you have to hire they they hire
basically super smart and we know we
need python developers so hire the
python developer now do you work on
Gmail do you work on Google Maps Etc
what you do is you float around as that
developer or front end person or
designer whatever your skill set is and
you float around you meet the different
teams you see where you have chemistry
you go I really love what they're doing
on Google Maps team seems to like me
they go sure come and join us now if
after six months you haven't found a
team bigger conversation you probably
don't fit there for some reason but if
you found a team after choosing over 6
months all of a bunch of different
options you're probably where you really
really like being right so now off they
go so that's one example of implementing
this in the new hire model the full
extent of autonomy I'll give you the
example of Tangerine Bank in Canada
which is used to be in direct so they
operate on this fully autonomous basis
they have no CEO no reporting Lines no
management teams no middle management no
meetings of any kind they literally
operate on a beehive where each employee
self- selects us to what they want to do
okay now you're a regulated Bank
Canadian banks are very regulated right
so what happens is when the marketing
guy goes oh let's do an online promotion
because he's self- selected wants to
focus on that and they launch an online
promotion everybody floods to the phone
Banks and helps out getting phone calls
when it's regulatory reporting time they
all flood to the regulatory systems and
fill out all the paperwork to fill out
all the forms to show the Canadian
government that they're viable the most
amazing example I've seen of this is
valve software out of Seattle that makes
the steam platform by 400 people same
ethos no CEO reporting lives so if I
spot a bug in the software I grab three
people we go fix the bug we disband
every employee self- selects what they
want to work on and it sounds completely
like a joke but they get more Revenue
per employ than Microsoft they make a
fortune so it's very doable you have to
start it you have to start it with that
principle in mind yeah it's like physics
something a particle born above the
speed of light can't go slower and below
the speed of light can't exceed the
speed of light
I think you have to this is found
founding starting conditions for your
company yeah this is I don't know what I
find harder to believe reincarnation or
that you can do this but look I I don't
shut down emotionally I'm very open I
just everything that I know with perhaps
just my limited skill set that is a
recipe for chaos or you have to hit a
certain size like when I think about
Google being able to do that there's no
way that you can start like that I get
how can get so big you have so much
Surplus money that you can let a person
wander around for 6 months with no like
real specific job or that you can hire
somebody oh you know Python and you're
smart great you know you know valve
software is about 400 people it's not
that over they're also the company when
when you said oh we're doing a a case
study on valve in the book I was like Oh
you mean the company that couldn't get
halflife three or two whichever it was
out for 15 years I was like yeah I'm not
surprised but then you said that they
make more per employee so I was like ah
[ __ ] yeah so it directed execution turns
out to be non-trivial in these
organizations it's like Dow governance
right it's an oxymoron it's very hard to
right so um but in terms of resilience
unbelievable because you cannot break
that organization because everybody's
self- selecting when there's a problem
they naturally find the problem they go
fix it I think you need to still you
need to hire for that people need to
have you absolutely have to hire you
can't have you know Tony Shay tried for
three years to implement that into zap
and it just failed you can't bring it
into this is why we say when you're an
existing organization and you want to
turn into an EXO don't go through the
nightmare of trying to transform
yourself put up create new exos on the
edge and let those slowly become the new
Gravity Center what was the example of
the company maybe it was the washing
machine company or the fridge company
but they literally were like H we're
firing everybody and then a third of
them left and they restarted with 2/3
and they did just fine uh
it was hired that in the book in fact
Zappos when Tony shade first suggests he
voluntarily said who wants to move to
this model and everybody was like yeah
this is crazy we're not doing that so
then he went we strongly suggest that
you move to this model then finally he
said if you don't move to that model
you're fired and even then it failed
very hard to implement into a legacy
organization did we finish the
attributes oh so autonomy and the final
one is social Technologies um Asana
slack Zoom chatter Yammer etc etc
we found we have really good evidence
today that peer-to-peer collaboration is
much more powerful than traditional top
down command and control thinking so
what do you guys think about what Elon
is doing at Twitter he recently was
interviewed and he said it is immoral to
work from home and I was like wow yeah
we had this conversation yesterday about
you know uh listen I miss having an
office setting mhm I do and I miss and I
I recognize and realize that the
intensity of the amount of work that
gets done when a group is together is
substantially higher than alone but you
know the flip side of that is the
geographic Arbitrage that I can get
access to talent that I might not
otherwise get to move to Santa Monica
yeah yeah I mean my CEO lives in the Bay
Area my VP finan is in Spain my head of
community is in Cape Town we have a
totally distributed organization and yes
we're less efficient than if everybody
was in one place but I can operate
across multiple time zon seamlessly
people are living where they want to
live they're living with their families
etc etc so I'm a Believer in the remote
work side yeah I also think we're going
to see a transition as uh as the next
generation of metaverse systems come
online you know if we're there will be a
point where we are sitting in the
metaverse and I feel like I'm here with
you and having this conversation and
hopefully the glasswar becomes light
enough and easy enough where it's it's
very interactive the key heuristic I
think when you think about Elon with
Twitter Etc and people is do you trust
them do you trust your people right and
most corporations operate out of
mistrust you're like checking things and
you have to file travel expense reports
etc etc and the entire structure is set
up to mistrust you uh and when we move
to this new model of exos by default you
tend to trust
the teams to do what they're trying to
do the best you're trying to trust trust
Over Control right trust beats control
is one of the key implications jery
molski who one of our community members
said this brilliantly he said um uh
scarcity equals abundance minus
trust it's interesting for me it doesn't
come down to trust I don't even want to
have to think about the people on my
team I want to play my position I want
them to play theirs and I never want to
have to think about it it really comes
down to results and focus and like you
need like this is going to be
interesting saying to you guys but you
need some variation of the immune system
and that the immune system will detect
cancer so yes it can say no to things
that it shouldn't say no to but it can
also stop the free riters and the the
just reality is that you will get people
using Game Theory to be like oh you can
hide in this company and everybody can
just do whatever the hell they want you
will get people that then just become
selfish and then other people look at
that and resentment builds and so you
get other people how do you you know
there's there's a uh my I'm moving all
of my companies onto something called
EOS the entrepreneurial operating system
MH and is this formal it it is it's a
it's a uh it's something you can go look
it up entrepreneur operating system and
um uh and what we do is we meet and it's
a process of thinking and running your
organization sort of like an operating
system for a company
and we have what's called a a 10x
meeting every week with the entire group
we're reviewing our rocks our our action
items uh our dashboards and everybody's
got assigned specific actions and and uh
and it's not possible to hide in that
regard if you properly Implement
okrs you you really can't hide and yet
you can give people a lot of autonomy
and they can go do their thing but
whether it's EOS or whatever the model
is um it brings it together so we have
today very modern team and individual
performance structures that allow us to
handle thata you can hide in traditional
organizations because there's 20
developers on some team and nobody knows
really Who's the who the rock stars are
HR never knows okay one thing we've
noticed the particular indictment I
would have is today's most big
corporations are structured in a matrix
structure products on the verticals and
you have legal HR branding privacy Etc
and Terry sem when he was running Yahoo
made the mistake of putting in a matrix
structure into it and it's like that
structure is great for kind of command
and control but it's terrible for
risk-taking and it's terrible for Speed
because every time you try to do
something you want you have to clear all
those levels so it was taking us close
to a year to release some feature on
Yahoo personals and Myspace was released
and Facebook was the killer here where
they came along and Zucker birt said if
you feel your code is ready take it live
on the live site we'll give you access
to the live site your code better be
good otherwise if you take the take us
down you're fired but the developer has
got such a sense of empowerment and
autonomy from that and and wow he trusts
us to let us take our code life they
were rolling out features every week do
they still do that I'm not sure if they
still do that but that was what got them
that was what blew Myspace away blew
Yahoo away at the time the early days of
high-risk taking for any entrepreneurial
company is is amazing we we don't have a
legal department yet we don't have HR
department and over time power crws to
the the horizontals because they have no
incentive in saying yes and so when we
coach CEOs we basically say take all
those horizontal layers and every 3 four
years just blow them up and reinvent
them watch this conversation with emod
moac to learn exactly how AI will
disrupt the entire world how do we make
sure it doesn't kill us or how does it
make sure it doesn't enslave us or how
does it make sure that it doesn't give
us Eternal suffering and I realize this
could be the real thing that unlocks
Humanity a AI is not going to replace
humans humans with it