Kind: captions
Language: en
we have two Futures in our world today
either a Mad Max future or a Star Trek
future do you think that as we
transition over to AI that it will take
us through a valley of Despair or is
this going to be a straight line to
Utopia oh no big valleys of chaotic
despair an AI is going to be a million
times smarter than you this is the
biggest inflection point that we've ever
seen how do they create the next billion
dollar company with three people if
that's the way to play it this is what
needs to happen describe the most likely
sequencing over the next 30 Years uh I
think we for me the AI transition is
typewriter to word processor it's just
an uplifting and enabling of all sorts
of capabilities across multiple multiple
sectors and industries and it transforms
how we do things pretty fundamentally
from creativity to uh uh Rank and file
work to blue color work to ET I think
the robotic stuff is further down the
line than most people think uh Peter's
very excited about it we have all the
human Ed robots but robotics is really
really hard and will take much longer in
my opinion but the AI stuff will
actually allow us to uplift ourselves
very quickly and you know we talk about
scarcity to abundance I think AI gets us
to abundance very very fast and I think
that's for me the most exciting and
optimistic side of things we have two
Futures in our world today either a Mad
Max future which you can see playing out
in Gaza or Ukraine or a Star Trek future
uh where we have abundance and we're
operating on a on a much more highly
conscious basis Etc and so which future
do we pick as a human species is the
choice that's in front of us right now
okay so you believe that there's a
branching path before us uh and we get
to choose which path we go down it's a
little we're actually heading down the
Mad Max path so if you look at our
politics you look at what's happening
you look at the the political rck here
in the US there's a huge transitional
shift happening and you could the my my
favorite sensible way of dealing with or
talking about that is a centralized to
decentralized shift right we run the
world today on very centralized systems
governments and corporations and the
military-industrial complex Etc we're
moving to much more decentralized and
bottom up peer-to-peer
systems um and you could call that a
male archetype versus a female archetype
if you want to go there um but when you
get to abundance you want a female
archetype to be running the world uh
because the female archetype shares
resources around naturally uh so for
example the male archetype when it meets
abundance relates to it as power and
tries to hoard it Middle East oil Wall
Street money Etc female archetype meets
abundance and shares it around so you
really need a sharing decentralized
model as we move the world to abundance
and that's the tension that I think I
see in the world more than anything is
that centralized to decentralize
architecture and we've started to see
the rise of this over the last few
decades the burning men philosophy um
open- Source movements DIY movements the
maker movement Etc democracy itself is
is an is a bottomup movement um as a
reaction to feudal systems and and top
down Empires um and we're moving in that
direction it's just slow and painful and
centralized systems don't like to
relinquish power we know that very
clearly so that's the tension that I see
that's playing out that's underpinning
all the other how it's showing up so for
example when I think about Trump or
brexit it wasn't left versus right it
was actually Urban versus rural brexit
was 100% London versus the rest of the
country why would that be the break
point because there's a tension in
cities and how do we allocate resources
to cities versus the countryside uh
where people because the metabolism of a
city is much faster Innovation happens
very fast in a city and so therefore
that that's the environment in which
we're doing most of our of our
Innovation work and technological
development today and if you're left
behind you get very unhappy with that
and so this is the tension that I think
we're seeing around the world so we have
this fundamental tension between things
could go well things could go poorly um
splitting between the different
archetypes male female how we respond to
abundance power or sharing the resources
uh urban and rural um I'm starting to
get a sense of where you're going do you
think that as we transition over to AI
that it will take us through a value of
Despair or is this going to be a
straight line to Utopia oh no big valys
of chaotic despair um these types of
transitions I think this is the biggest
transformation in the history of
civilization maybe the history of
species on on Earth it's that big and
the transition is going to be very
painful they never are are clean right
like dinos asteroid hits and the
dinosaurs get wiped out and now you have
camon explosion types I think that's the
kind of transition we're seeing here
okay that that is uh arguably the most
devastating thing to ever happen to life
on this Earth yeah uh wait I don't I
don't believe AI gets us there but it's
meaning AI will not have that kind of
cataclysmic that's right knock on effect
that's right actually am I'm hugely
optimistic about the future so just
that's a really important framing Point
um but there's no question in
Civilization at least this is the
biggest inflection point that we've ever
seen and I think that next 30 Years
defines the next 300 years why will the
next 30 Years Define it what what does
that look is that the period of
transition yeah it's the transition
period And this is chaos theory right
the initial conditions are really
critical and how you navigate those
initial conditions with uh as much
experience guidance and a lot of luck
will then guide the rest of the future
uh if you know Chaos Theory the idea is
that if you drop a pebble down the top
of a mountain it doesn't matter how many
times you you drop the pebble is always
going to take a different path because
some micro change in the initial
atmosphere or the pressure when you
released it or the first bounce or the
density of the first thing it hit or the
change in humidity along the way will
have it go down a different route so you
never know what's going to happen but it
just knows we're just in the really big
transition and it's super exciting but
it's very very chaotic I have heard you
that this is going to be very difficult
to predict however one of the most
interesting descriptions of quantum
mechanics I heard is that yes while all
things are simply probabilistic the
world that you see is the most likely
and I thought that was a really great
explanation so assuming that knowing
that no matter how many times we drop
the pebble it be different but there's
there's a most likely sort of cluster of
effects yeah think of it as a a stock
market chart right you never have a
clear straight line it's always a choppy
and then it stabilizes then it has a
breakthrough moment and then it's choppy
again it's kind of like that I think
that's the pattern that we see okay what
causes that like I can actually explain
economically what's going on in terms of
human greed fear and the way that
cultural energy will move through a
medium that can be an economic medium so
you can actually see cultural energy
move through a stock market if anybody
paying attention to bitcoin I will just
tell you right now that is simply a
cultural idea that is spreading through
the medium of cryptocurrency I won't
derail the conversation on that but like
with that in mind that to to me my base
assumption about those jagged lines is
that is human the human brain responding
in a somewhat predictable way and you
can watch that idea Ripple through um
including sort of bounding it so it's
only going to go up so high and it's
only going to go down so low and so you
see this sort of bounding fluctuation
and you can look back through history
and you see that same sort of bounded
fluctuation now those bounded
fluctuations to me are terrifying and if
you read history because like I said
said the long Arc is bending towards
prosperity for all and if you zoom out
long enough on human time scales it's
unbelievable the progress made oh my God
but that that does not help uh the guy
whose family all gets rolled up in rugs
by the Mongols and trampled to death yes
like that's just no consolation and so
I'm saying we're all that guy right we
all live one life yes we are bounded
from a Time perspective so far uh and so
it matters me a lot where I am on these
jagged lines so going back to AI what
are these jegged lines do you buy into
my thesis or do you have a different one
oh I I agree with you but with some
caveats so for example uh the economic
outcomes of AI I think are pretty clear
in terms of what's going to happen I
think we're going to see massive
productivity gains across the board um
The Challenge we have is the underlying
system is flawed in terms of Economic
Development and economic growth right
our entire
system global system is money is the
main mode of discourse in the world
today and it's good because if you think
of money as a form of energy we freed
money energy from religious structures
and feudal systems and then the power of
ideas came along and the power of
Technology came along and now it flows
very nicely very quickly to new ideas
and good ideas VI via Venture Capital
via private Equity Bitcoin new ideas can
pop up and money will flow where the
best ideas are so that's fantastic one
level but um moving from money as a main
mode of discourse in the world to
information as a main mode of discourse
in the world so for example any startup
would much rather gather data about
things rather than gating money early
because they can monetize the data much
more and they're fungible today you can
convert money into information and vice
versa over time information becomes a
high order bit right because take your
health you're much more interested in
the different biomarkers you can track
then how much it'll cost you to fix
things ET because the information is
more valuable so I think as a at a very
metaphysical level we're shifting from
the Quest for money and the Quest for uh
greed Etc and energy that way and
shifting it into information when we
move that transition now Things become
really powerful I think this is the
massive Insight that Ray kwell had when
he started tracking Moors law that as we
digitize we turn things into information
that information can then be manipulated
into back into matter back into money
and vice versa and you have this amazing
cyclical pattern that can take place and
little by little we're moving more and
more into that over time money will
become less important on this scale if
you went back a thousand years ago we
were all working 18 hours a day in the
fields to put three meals on the table
and you some of us still are
asep some of us still are but we but you
didn't have a choice then you pretty
much had to do that only a very small
percent of the population could not do
that right today that number of that
population that can doesn't have to do
that is much much much bigger and little
by little as we uh uh do better vertical
farming and solar energy into all sorts
of remote parts in the world and
satellite internet and water extraction
out of the atmosphere pretty much will
be able to have an amazing life anywhere
on the planet at for every level of
humanity that's why Peter gets so
excited that's why we get so excited
about the technological progress the
problem is our social systems and all
our infrastructure and all our
institutions are not geared for smooth
progress in this thing I think for to
summarize those lines that you were
talking about I would quote eio Wilson
the famous biologist who said um our the
problem with humanity is that our
emotions are Paleolithic our
institutions are medieval and our
technolog is Godlike right pretty much
all the problems in the world come from
the gaps in those layers and I think the
pressure is so intense today that we'll
any leader today will spend the next 20
years of Our Lives
basically dealing with the gaps in those
in those layers yeah let's name that the
human problem the human problem so my
thing is the human problem is not going
anywhere so for instance you were just
talking about um right now people are
seeking money that becomes the game but
now the information is going to become
the higher order bit people are going to
start pursuing that but what I will ask
is why and the answer to me seems
self-evidently it's more powerful so you
still have humans playing a game of
power which is why I'm still very
concerned about these valleys of Despair
Because unless something changes in our
biology that makes us pursue different
things we will simply derange AI we will
simply derange the pursuit of
information and while you and I share a
very optimistic vision of the long-term
future because of that long
Arc what way do you see us so going back
to your branching choice between madmax
or Utopia
how do we nudge Humanity to not go down
madmax which you're saying we're doing
currently and instead go to Utopia what
how do you solve the human problem I
think you open up as fast as possible
and decentralize as fast as possible
okay so the uh number two to uh zalinsky
in the Ukraine is one of our community
members so i' we've got our Global open
EXO community that are building for for
the 21st century building companies and
transforming governments Etc um and I
chat I was chatting with him and he was
asking some advice it turns out they've
been using my book a bit in in their
dealing with the what's happening there
and one of the com comments I made is
look this is how is it that you've
become so resilient as in terms of the
in the face of the aggression and he
said we've decentralized the country
we've decentralized the country so
there's no single point of attack for
energy or for infrastructure or for
electricity Etc and we've been doing
that for 10 years because we could see
this could be a likely possibility so I
think what happens is when you
decentralize things become much much
more resilient just take energy for
example if you decentralize we can have
solar energy powering lots of small
communities then there's no need for
security at the central power grid
because there isn't one and anybody can
generate solar energy at a very local
level and the efficiency means we'll get
better and better at in it and better
and better generating it and now you
have amazing resource capability
anywhere and a wonderful level most of
our Wars over the last 100 years have
been over energy oil specifically right
so when we free ourselves from that
hopefully you should get to a peaceful
nature now I was under the impression
for a while that huh when we get to
abundance that we won't be fighting
anymore and I got disillusioned from
that by a couple of the deep thinkers
who said no we'll still have lots of
human conflict because humans are really
geared towards conflict in X prise we
try and push people towards healthy
competition and let's work things out
that way we've got all sorts of really
great ways of dealing with the natural
conflict that we bring up in human
beings for example sports teams the
Olympics uh uh Etc and that allows us to
vent a lot of kind of aggression that
might otherwise come out in other ways
uh but we still have to deal with the
fundamental human nature problem and I'm
I'm hopefully the the abundance inside
gets there faster than some lone uh
small team of people trying to use AI to
design a virus that will attack all
middle-aged Indian bald guys right that
would be the The Hope okay uh so
decentralization I am one of the few
people that is beyond obsessed with
cryptocurrencies web 3 uh and believes
that decentralization is just deeply
problematic so the reason I think that
decentral ation is deeply problematic is
that you cannot Galvanize the energy of
humans well and so while some things
will respond to decentralization very
well so take um the very nature of the
blockchain the fact that it is
distributed that they all run as nodes
is brilliant I'm here for that I love it
the most yeah uh however I am doing
battle with coinbase for instance which
keeps wanting to verify my identity
keeps asking me where I got my money I'm
like bro I'm about as public as you get
I don't know what else you want want me
to show you uh but I want them to be
centralized because I don't want to have
to like do a bunch of crazy stuff to
make sure that I'm getting my um crypto
Exchange in a safe way all that stuff so
I'm I'm making a willing trade uh for
Simplicity for security I know all the
memes but nonetheless and I think that
more people are like me okay so people
want centralization and you have a hard
time aiming everybody's energy in the
same direction when all the decision
making is completely distributed yeah
you also have what our founding fathers
were trying to protect against which is
the tyranny of the majority yes and so
there are reasons I think to be
skeptical that decentralization is a
magical solution um so let's use Ukraine
since you brought them up as an example
there's a guy named John
mimer brilliant political thinker um
military I don't know if he's officially
a strategist but anyway seems to deeply
understand that and he just keeps saying
Ukraine is going to lose it is
inevitable and they're going to end up a
dysfunctional rump State and when I hear
that rhetoric I'm like okay one let me
just be very clear I have not I'm not
close enough to the problem or to just
that thing in general to know if he's
right but there's so much internal logic
to the way that he approaches it so I'm
looking at your argument they've
decentralized a bunch of things so it
becomes harder to attack but that also
makes it feel like each region is going
to be easier to overtake and so if I'm
Russia I'm just going to go Zone by Zone
by Zone being like I don't have to worry
about the whole Collective because you
guys are decentralized so I'm just going
to eat this node and then eat this node
yeah uh however the problem with eating
these nodes is keeping that node is
non-trivial okay so for example they
installed a bunch of Russian Mayors in
some of the initial towns that they and
they just put car bombs under them and
started blowing them up so now who wants
to go be a Russian mayor of a local
Ukrainian town when your lifespan is
going to be very short so the resistance
is going to be uh strong just because
they don't have a choice right this is
their this is the existential for them
and this is the same thing why it's
difficult to take over Afghanistan or
take over a it may become a rum State
that's possible but if that's the case
it was going to become that anyway way
and you might as well fight it which is
what they're doing right now the
question is can they win and I think
they can't win without obviously a huge
amount of Western aid but I think they
could win in that in that situation what
do you think becomes the galvanizing
Force so you mentioned Afghanistan I
have a feeling without a sense of
cultural identity and possibly religion
it would be easy to disrupt but there's
a galvanizing force that allows the
distributed nature of all of that to
work that they still have this thing
that sits over them that unites them
yeah so this is a great question is what
is that binding Force because it used to
be religion right we started actually it
used to be tribal structures because we
would cooperate on nomadic tribes and
the tribes would then fight and over a
time period of time we the as technology
be became better the tribes that get
bigger and bigger in formed countries
and Empires right the Mongols that you
mentioned earlier my my favorite thing
about the Mongols is an old from an old
BBC documentary that said they destroyed
anything they got angry at and they got
angry at anything they didn't understand
so they came down from the steps down to
Han China found a million Chinese
Farmers doing agriculture didn't
understand it got angry at it and
literally wiped out a million Farmers
just because they because of that
cascading logic right um now if you grow
an Empire to a certain level uh can you
keep it or not keep it as one area the
ones that worked best are the ones that
decentralized the administration and
navigated local preferences in a
powerful way Akbar in in India the
Mongols did it pretty powerfully and
pretty well Alexander the Great managed
it pretty well the Roman Empire did
pretty well there's that whole idea of
the fourth turning and all of the
cyclical aspects I I I look at all these
folks picky
ralo uh Yuval Harari Etc and I think
they're incredibly insightful about the
past I find they're not that useful
about the future why because I think
this inflection point and I know this is
a tired uh kind of meme of this time is
different but I think this time is
really different the combination of
energetic abundance and lifespan that
we're about to break uh life extension
Plus AI makes it a completely different
cocktail than we've ever seen before in
the history of humanity and so I think
this is a complete step change and this
is why it's so exciting to be around
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theory for the audience that doesn't
know you you have a business um
framework that I think is going to be
really useful to help us think through
because um I keep finding you drift to
the well once we're on the other side of
this there's energy abundance and it
solves all these medical problems and
those are the things that I think calms
everybody down in the long run but they
do not help us in the next call it from
now to seven years is sort of the time
window where I think things are going to
get really weird so really fast walk
people through um your thinking around
um how in business we can use some of
these strategies to uh become an
exponential organization sure so you
know if you went back to the 20th
century the most successful
organizations were the biggest top- down
hierarchical command and control
structures pyramid structured with a CEO
at the top
uh designed for two things designed for
efficiency and designed for
predictability right if you're if you're
Pampers you're trying to deliver the
same box of Pampers in a million
locations around the world or McDonald's
or healthc care services or whatever
today you need to be architected for
agility flexibility adaptability and
speed okay and we found uh in the last
episode we did with you that the top 10
of the Fortune 100 that are the most
flexible and agile compared to the
bottom 10 in our opinion that are the
least EXO friendly had delivered 40
times better shareholder returns over a
7-year period than the on so there's a
clear economic thesis here that as the
world becomes more volatile your ability
to adapt will drive market value and
drive have a better organization so how
do you build that and we call these
exponential organizations where you have
a massive purpose like cure cancer Elon
has three take us to space solve
Transportation solve the climate um and
then you build an organization with a a
set of externalities like leveraging
Community like Ted does um leveraging
assets that you don't own like Airbnb uh
not hiring your own staff like uber and
then a set of internal
mechanisms like The Lean Startup
thinking ideas and decentralize orc
structures because you can push
decision- making to the edge we found
that the more of these characteristics
are used the better and we're clear now
over the next decade that every
government Department impact project
nonprofit for profit will tend towards
these structures because we now have
enough evidence to show that that's
better so for example when we talk to
CEOs today they are not AI ready at all
because they're old 20th century
organization structures is absolutely
not set up for what's coming with AI
right they're not AI ready and so
they're all asking is can you please
give us a workshop set us up with some
help on how do we navigate Ai and I see
two problems that are Paramount today
with companies implementing AI the first
is they jump in very quickly and they
can't see the Rocks before they dive in
and they get into trouble either by
accidentally putting all their data into
chat GPT or um um putting the wrong
models into place and the second issue
which is the bigger issue is the immune
system problem so I first came across
this problem at Yahoo and I was running
their incubator and the more disruptive
an idea we came up with in the incubator
the less the company could handle it
right I was like wait you hired me to do
disruptive stuff and I bring you
something and you guys can't cope right
you can't integrate it why because of
that that if efficiency and and Agility
problem um that really stuck in my head
and going through seven years of
building Singularity and noticing that
we have 20 Gutenberg moments hitting us
AI is hitting us right now but we have
biotech we have blockchain is in as
Gutenberg moment solar energy is a
Gutenberg moment life extension is a
Gutenberg moment um we will not be able
to manage the future with our current
existing organization structures or our
current government structure or
institution
structures so we architected this model
it we now can see that it will work and
we the two we have to solve two things
one is um uh what's the thoughtful way
in which you apply technology to derive
Great Value from it secondly how do you
navigate that immune system response and
so we're coaching companies and so on
how to do this because if you push AI
into a company all the people go whoa
Nelly and they freak out and uh the
antibodies attack you and nothing moves
this analogy was first given to me by
the CTO of Autodesk I was chatting with
him and I was complaining about he's
like oh you've got an immune system
response and I went ding it's the best
articulated framing you try anything
disruptive in a big company and it's
worse in the public sector because we
have taxis fighting Uber we have Bankers
fighting Bitcoin we're not progressing
Society along enough quickly enough
because when there's new technological
breakthroughs all the antibodies freak
out and we get so we have to solve that
problem problem at a cultural level CU
companies have their immune systems but
and governments have their but
institutions have really bad immune
systems education God help you if you
try and update Academia religion has
probably the worst immune system because
they'll kill you in in literally in
those cases right um so I I remember
having a conversation with Salman Rashi
a few years ago and he was talking about
the fatwa and I asked him how was that
like for you and he said you know I grew
up in the 60s and he had this really
tired tone in his voice he goes I grew
up in the' 60s we thought we nailed
religion we thought it was done and then
in the 80s it comes roaring back and
boom immune system problem did you talk
to him before or after cuz he got
attacked like got he lost an eyed him or
something yeah that was just recently I
haven't talked to for decades they laid
in weight they well not laid in weight
but the problem is that when you have
deep-seated institutional or political
beliefs they don't go away they're wired
into your limic system so all religions
work in the following way okay you take
a young child below the age of 10 you
give them an absolute truth an
assumptive truth like Virgin Mary
Muhammad is the last prophet Jesus is is
the Son of God whatever and then you
bind it into them with the ritual
repetition and a lot of sweets a lot of
sugar okay and all religious functions
operate on this and then when the when
the neocortex forms in the from the 10
to 13y old age the kid's brain is
already deeply wired with these absolute
assumptive truth and you can't if you if
you stress it at that point you evoke a
fight ORF flight response this is why
the Jesuits say give me the boy until
the age of seven I'll give you the Met
right because you can wire a young child
so all religions operate that way we
have to undo uh some of that damage that
we're doing to kids with religion around
this but the problem that you pointed
out that's really important is what's
the binding coagulant that holds Society
together in the absence of that model
and that's the big challenge we have to
figure out storytelling is one aspect of
it we have modern myths like Star Wars
and Star Trek and others that are
popping up but they're not they're not
connective enough as tissue to hold us
together yeah agreed also I think that
even though I've dedicated my life to
that form of Storytelling it it does not
touch the realm of religion which is why
I'm utterly fascinated with what's going
on right now uh what I think of is the
um the tradical isation of society so we
are going to
be radicalized in the direction of the
traditional I think we're the next 3
years is really going to be marked by
that and I think because of AI it's just
going to massively fuel those Flames but
uh before we get lost on that the the
idea of the immune system which I think
is incredibly important as you were
talking this is so hilarious to how my
mind works I was like he's setting his
own trap okay
so keep in mind what I really want
people to understand is I think and I
think you'll agree with this the world
is going to be fundamentally different
three to five years from now yes and to
a point you start stretching that out
far enough and it it becomes absolutely
unrecognizable if you have a kid that's
in kindergarten now by the time they
reach high school the world will look
nothing like it does now this is a very
near-term
concern what you're calling the immune
system which to me is a reflection of
what I'm calling the human problem which
is humans long for power humans have
Pursuit uh dialed to 11 so want to get
better they want to acre more power we
all we also have this massive quest for
control to make sense of the world to
control the world right because you know
if you go back to our our um
evolutionary Roots it was a survive or
die either you manage the world around
you or it manages you and you're at
you're you're done pretty quickly so you
have to gain control of your environment
as fast as possible and as aggressively
as possible in that model we are now
controlling this most of the species on
the planet with whether we like it or
not we're controlling the atmosphere
whether we like it or not accidentally
badly um now we're trying to manage this
future of technology and this is where
regulatory comes in right we try and put
in guard rails for how we manage
technology going forward and you know
over the centuries we've done a pretty
good job of it the big challenge with
regulator is how do you extract the
promise of Technology without the Peril
right like I can use fire to heat my
house and I can use it to burn down your
house how do we navigate that I tend to
be really optimistic about this because
of the old eBay study that I think we
talked about last
time so when Craigslist and eBay emerged
um for the first time you could study
human nature at scale and because I can
on Craigslist very easily put up a fake
picture of a Macbook you send me $1,000
and I'm off to Fiji right and I can mask
my email address pretty quickly same
thing with Craiglist so sociologist and
anthropologist got pretty interested in
this said oh we can actually study human
nature and I can equally do good or bad
what's the actual ratio right so they
started studying these systems Kajiji in
Canada Craigslist here eBay Etc and it
turns out very consistently across these
systems where a human being can do a
positive or fraudulent transaction the
actual ratio turns out to be something
like 8,000 to1 consistently okay which
is really surreal and Incredibly
exciting actually because that means if
you opened up drones and said anybody do
whatever they want with drones you'll
get 8,000 positive use cases to the one
bad guy okay which make which is
fantastic for society except our current
model is drones come out the regulatory
goes oh my God somebody might load up a
a C4 on a drone and flyed into the White
House just can ban all drones and then
slowly open that tap and over a 20-year
period we get the benefits of that
technology so we have a ton of problems
with imprisons today with drones flying
cell phones and cameras and money over
the Prison Walls and dropping them into
the prisoners and the wardens are going
crazy right so hello uh let's deal with
this in a different way so now there's
Technologies to solve the Drone uh
interference problem we'll get there but
this is a technological uh uh Arbitrage
problem and so the challenge is how do
we make sure we're doing good things
with technology not the bad things with
technology and over the years I think
we're doing a pretty good job of it in
general but I think that with the
democratization of technology and the
easy access to anybody that has access
to AI or can home build a drone this
becomes harder and harder so we have to
lift human nature and get to abundance
and give everybody what they want
materially as fast as we can so they
don't go down the dark path is is One
path that that was an obvious one I
think even if I were to accept the ratio
of good actors to Bad actors the thing
that's missing is the level to which a
bad actor Will exploit yes important the
amplitude of that negative is growing
right so the amount of damage one person
can do is growing exponentially and so
our ability to control one person is
dropping exponentially that's a not a
great equation um we have Mark Goodman
as one of our community members he's a
he was a futurist for the FBI uh so if
you can get him drunk he has awesome
stories about how criminals and
terrorists use bad use technology in a
negative way and it's actually
fascinating to see how creative they are
around some of this um but the the big
challenge is the amplitude is actually
growing back to the Middle East Indian
ball guy virus yeah which hopefully they
never make I would be very sad even
though most people are going to do good
things you're going to have these
moments of uh exploitation people will
take advantage of that the amplitude of
that is growing you also have the immune
system response that is just trying to
stop change from happening uh which can
be good or bad but ultimately I think it
is to your point you have a a creature
that is born of evolution that had to
learn to control its environment that
had to have Pursuit dialed to 11 so it
would try to go out and try to control
its environment and do better things for
the group and all that stuff and acquire
power and all that so I am still at this
moment of before us is a fork in the
road and EV you have really done a great
job of laying out what humans are like
but I still don't see the thing other
than AI finally begins delivering on
some of the promises and then we all go
okay yeah cool like I'm going to embrace
this but I still think we have to go
through Mad Max I don't see any way
around that equation um so if you feel
like there's an argument left that will
convince me if not please detail for us
what are those amazing things that AI is
going to deliver us that will make
having gone through this Valley of
dispair well worth unleashing AI upon
the world okay so important to note that
we don't have a choice about unleashing
AI into the world Kevin Kelly wrote this
book what technology wants and basically
AR showed in very clear thing that
technology is moving at its own pace and
our only hope is to really keep up with
it because it's it's taken on a life of
its own in a sense because if we try and
regulate AI then other people go run a
muck with it and so it ends up being an
arms race and you end up having to do it
anyway so now uh let me give you the
some use cases where AI can radically
change things in a short period of time
for the radically better um I'll Channel
Imad mustak here this the head of St who
is the head of stability and one of the
projects he's working on is can we take
all the healthc Care data in a country
and load it up into an LM and all the
legal legislative the law books and put
that into an llm and all the software
codebase globally and put that in and
you give every child three or four links
a doctor a lawyer a software programmer
and a General AI helper okay now if you
give every kid in Africa a link with a
doctor and there's a medical problem at
home they will just start using it and
transforming their uh Health Care
locally for
free and this will completely change the
world same thing with education as we
load up all the educational content into
an AI it's going to do a way better job
at teaching kids and kids can self-learn
in a much more effective way than our
current systems can do it so you do
those two things uh and Healthcare and
education suddenly become free and
adapted and personalized to every child
in the world that's an unbelievable
future so the whole ecosystem and the
methodology we've been building is how
do you enable those people to build as
fast as possible and build that
optimistic future as fast as possible
and that's what exponential
organizations so EXO as we use it as a
metaphor is the is the thing at the edge
exoskeleton exoplanet exothermic
reaction so we want to find EXO Builders
and EXO Heroes that's the collection
we're launching on finding people that
are building things at the edge because
we need to build that edge very fast and
let that become the new Gravity Center
very fast because the current system is
imploding think like a Sci-Fi writer for
me for a second yes so a Sci-Fi riter's
job is not to imagine the automobile
it's to predict the traffic jam so what
are the if we're giving people access to
all this information around Healthcare
they have a private doctor a private
lawyer uh they're educated it's hyper
tailored to them we're going to unlock
as much of their intelligence and their
creativity as is going to be possible um
what are the things that are born of
that well I think there will be some
negatives you'll may have accidents
people misinterpret the data people do
Source the wrong information from their
bodies and put it into the AI and you'll
get the wrong diagnosis lots of issues
can come along but the general outcome
was the benefits will so outweigh the
negatives that I think it's it's
absolutely worth doing okay there's no
question in my mind that giving kids the
ability to learn at their own pace on
their own and then socializing as they
need to in different ways is going to
transform the education system in a much
more powerful way from a push system to
a pull system right can I just delve
into education just for a second please
Okay so we've been doing education for a
couple hundred years on what I call John
Hegel used to call the push system you
get a bunch of kids into a classroom and
you try and cram algebra into them right
mostly they're thinking about lunch
little by little we move to a pool basis
where I pull I take a new job or new
role or new gig and I pull down the
knowledge I need to do that job right
that's great now we're and the whole
education system for the last few
hundred years has been supply side go
become an accountant an engineer a
doctor a lawyer um um a plumber and sell
that in the job Marketplace acquire set
of skills which is what universities do
they give you that job schooling which
is all that universities do today and
then you go to the job market the demand
side and you try and sell those skills
in the demand side I think what we're
going to see happen is we're going to go
from push-based education to pull-based
learning but demand driven so for
example if you take Elon he's like I'm
going to build an electric car and let
me go find the Technologies the skills
the capabilities I need no experience or
capability of doing it at the time but
he'll pull them towards him and solve
that problem so what we see kids doing
this is what's encapsulated in the
massive transformative purpose in the in
the EXO model pick a huge purpose cure
cancer okay and then go find the
Technologies and skills and capabilities
and pull those to you as you need to to
solve those problems that I think is
going to be the future of Education
getting there from the existing system
is
impossible so you need technology to
help you bridge that gap between a and b
and you need it to be permissionless so
one of the most exciting vectors of
human development that I'm seeing today
is something I call PDI per lless
disruptive innovation okay if you wanted
to do disruptive innovation throughout
history you had to get a sponsor an
investor a government to bless you
somebody had to give you permission to
go do that or give you the resources to
go do that look at um ethereum vitalic
bter middle class kid out of Toronto
gets together with eight friends boom
they go create ethereum for no money
with no cash no resources and boom it's
now a $400 billion ecosystem right um
take my favorite example is this is the
is a car that's called the Vega it's um
it looks like a Lamborghini it's the
third fastest car in the world 900
horsepower this thing it's being
designed and engineered and built in Sri
Lanka which is an island of fishermen
and Farmers with no investors ecosystem
experience education or track record I'm
going to suggest that if you can do
ethereum or if you can build the third
fastest car in the world on an island I
love showing it German car Executives
their brains literally melt when they
see this right um I'm going to suggest
you can do anything anywhere so now we
can give people the tools to build
radical new Solutions in vertical
farming and a new battery technology all
over the world and just let them go and
they'll figure it out and that's why
we're trying to De that's why the
decentralized world is so important we
need to decentralize Innovation as fast
as possible and that Vector might pull
us out as faster than the Mad Max vector
so that's my
hope okay it might pull us faster than
the Mad Max Vector okay so that's the
well it might get us to a a secure place
faster than madmax will destroy
us got it so we're we are going into
madmax territory but hopefully before
that can completely destroy everybody we
yeah for example we're mostly in the
middle east fighting for the last 100
years because of oil if we have solar
energy delivering an energy abundance
which will happen in the next four
doublings about 8 to 10 10 years then
you don't need oil and therefore what
are you fighting over right so that's
the hope now will we find other things
to fight about absolutely because we're
human beings but but it'll be less
existential I hope if you look at the
number of people dying in Wars today is
actually incredibly small compared to
100 years ago 200 years ago 500 so the
data is very clear the trend is very
good uh but we need to get out of our
current structures because our current
structures will take us back my my
biggest observation I've ever had about
human beings is that human beings would
much rather be comfortable than happy H
can you give me more detail on that
please yeah uh I may not Embrace uh
healthc care Technologies they may
deliver longevity because I'm so stuck
in a judeo-christian religious framework
of the world that heaven is a good thing
and I want to get to heaven as fast as
possible that feels like uh either
familiarity and fitting in with a tribe
comfortable comfortable I think of
comfortable as I'm warm I'm safe I'm
relaxed and both may be equally true and
emotionally emotionally secure let's use
that as an easy moniker for comfortable
right so uh you could put something
amazing in front of somebody can can I
tell you a story about the the Trump
election one so I'm Canadian uh and my
Canadian passport I'm like Golem with
the precious like hold on to that thing
as the US goes into all sorts of Chaos
about 3 months after Trump is elected in
2016 I was in a in an Uber going to a
conference and the health the driver is
looking very unhealthy and I said are
you okay uh how much do you drive he
goes oh I drive 18 hours a day I said 18
hours a day um uh hopefully you're not
at the end of your shift because that's
not great for me as a passenger then he
tells you this amazing story he was the
CEO of a 300 person construction firm
and uh they voted as a company should
they get rid of corporate Healthcare or
not and they vote as a he lobbies for it
because less admin for the company bit
more expensive for the people but more
choice so he votes lobbies and they get
rid of they vote and they get rid of
corporate Healthcare three weeks later
he's not feeling well goes to the doctor
and finds out he's got multiple stage
three cancers riddling his body and now
he's got a major problem because they
got rid of the healthcare he can't get
covered because of the pre-existing
conditions problem so one of those Pops
at stage four and he's a dead man so he
literally starts planning his funeral
ener G gives away the company plans his
end times like like really right there
I'm like that's incredible but you said
that happened a few years ago you're
here now what happened he goes Obamacare
passed I'm like okay he goes then I
could get the insurance I got the
treatment I saved my life I'm like wow
what a journey to go through you think
you're going to die and then this thing
happens and it saves your life we pull
into the hotel I'm getting out of the
car and kind of as joke I said I guess
in this last election you must have
voted for Hillary Clinton and he goes no
I voted for Trump and I I was Gob
smacked and I said but but you just said
Obamacare saved your life he goes yeah
it did completely 100% Obamacare they my
left I said but then you voted for the
guy that said he was going to get rid of
it on his first day he goes yeah and
he's getting rid of it and now I'm back
to planning my funeral I've never been
able to square that Circle you didn't
ask him the followup question I was so
if you could go back and do it again
what would you do what was what would be
the followup question you would ask I I
would have asked um did you know that
was going to be the outcome and if so
did you there's it that leads me to
believe you have a base assumption that
something trumps your own personal
safety I I I I've never I've never I've
I've I've sat with that like anecdote
for years now I've never been able to
figure that out where people will
literally vote against their
self-interest I don't think anyone votes
against their self-interest I think
there are things that they care about
that they may not be aware of yet so he
may have a philosophical underpinning
that he's not even aware of a value
system that drives him forward cuz he
the very thing and look I don't know
this guy who knows but just hearing what
I've heard that what I would say drives
him is freedom over everything so hey we
have a healthcare plan but I can make it
better by giving people choice oh
that bit me in the ass but my value
system is still there Trump in his mind
stands for more freedoms and so I'm
going to vote for more freedoms even
though it brings me now obviously I'd
want to p push him and like really
understand if that's what he's saying
but I find most people are driven by a
value system that they don't understand
but they are driven by it every choice
they make yeah is an echo of a value
system they don't understand can I say
something out of a little bit of anger
at all times I've lived in eight
countries around the world for more than
a year each so I've seen a lot of
different systems Healthcare governance
Etc Canada Europe India you name it um
this whole Vector of Freedom drives me
crazy because it's a complete
it's complete horseshit I feel less free
in the US than most other countries in
the world why are you here oh great
place to do
business fascinating it's a great place
to but I feel I'll give you I'll give
you because here in the US the reason
the US is successful is there's a latent
entrepreneurship that is unbelievably
powerful and it optimizes in Silicon
Valley where if you build a business and
you fail we call it experience anywhere
else in the bu in the world you build a
business and a fails you're a bad guy
right and this is true around the world
um so we have one Freedom the freedom to
fail freedom to fail is a huge one and
it's institutionalized in bankruptcy
laws it's it's you can fairly elegantly
shut down a company here compared to
other places I built a subsidiary for
one of my businesses to do software
development in India and the mothership
failed and it orphaned the subsidiary
right um it took me seven years to shut
down that subsidiary in India Jesus
because all the political the the
regulatory blah blah blah crap just the
thing am I likely to ever do another
business in India again never because
who wants to go through that hell right
whereas in the US if something fails so
we just merged by the way open EXO into
a public company couple of weeks ago
okay called genius group yeah so we're
super thrilled because it's a global
platform for teaching entrepreneurship
and that's the constituency that we're
most excited about so we're very excited
about the the future there um The
Unbelievable uh potential of in Delaware
when you are doing a merger or whatever
there's this incredible legal framework
called a reparations act or something
whereas if you haven't done your
corporate paperwork that you fogot about
they give you one chance to kind of fix
it all and come clean before you do a
major transaction it's fantastic right
never is that happening anywhere else in
the world uh because if you U do
something in Paris and under French law
and whatever later I'll tell another
quick story I had a French girlfriend
when I was living in Paris for a few
years and she was trying to get her
identity card because the French
government said everybody has to get an
identity so she goes to the government
says here's my identity I want to apply
and they're like looking all the
paperwork and they go problem she's like
what's wrong she says well you were born
in France you have a French passport
your father was born in France but your
mother was not born in France that's a
problem and she's like but my mother was
a French Citizen and the reason she
wasn't born in France was her her
parents were the commanding forces for
the French forces in Vietnam she was a
military kid so she got born in Vietnam
but she's a French citizen her parent
and they're like problem so she's like
okay what do I do so they we need
affidavits from all four of your
grandparents saying that was actually
our daughter d d d da so she goes
through all of this hell to get that and
she shows it to them and they then puts
it all together and they go problem
she's like what is it now they said your
birth certificate has
expired because in Fr it turns out a
birth certificate only is valid for 3
months and then when you want one for
some reason you have to apply to get a
birth certificate so this is the
bureaucracy that most of the world deals
with that the US has cleaned up a lot of
Canada is even better by the way because
it's a newer country okay so uh that
lack that less bureaucracy makes it easy
to build a business and do interesting
new things and that's why I live here I
think by the way I'm going to say it
also for the record I think the US
Constitution is the most important
document ever written but doesn't have
anything to do with freedom we'll get to
that in a minute yeah in what country
did you feel the most free most European
countries at an individual level I felt
very free businesses nightmare because
the Regulatory and cros and bureaucracy
nightmare but I can drive without ever
getting a speeding ticket in Europe
cannot drive here without getting a
speeding ticket is that the parameter
for freedom I don't know I'm just
telling you paint paint a picture for me
okay let let me give you another example
if I'm anywhere in the world I never
ever see a police
car whereas here in the US I just see
police cars all the time every day
people get arrested in the UK a place
where both of us have lived y people get
arrested in the UK for a tweet oh that
someone me separate issues different set
of I'm trying to pin you down on freedom
because I really want to understand this
yeah so uh look in India if I railed
against the government I would be in big
trouble right now so so freedom of
expression is is a big problem around
the world and I think freedom of
expression is more powerful here I do
there's definitely Freedom here for
freedom of expression more than anywhere
else in the world okay but this whole
Vector of the being more like the if you
vote Republican because you want more
freedom rather than less is I think
just my personal view having
lived um well so that to me I interpret
very differently so that just sounds
like I don't think Republicans are the
party of Freedom okay yeah but you said
that you don't feel as free in America
as you did in European countries I feel
yeah when I it's it's and there's good
and bad to this so I'll give you an
example on both sides okay so I came
into the US once and my name is selus
smell I look a little dodgy right um and
they go sir we have a problem uh your
name matches the name of an Afghan
warlord wanted in cbble for poppy
trading and he's wanted by the FBI who's
super likely to use his real name and
I'm like okay he goes it's you're a vice
president of Yahoo you're clearly not a
an Afghan warlord um I've got good news
and bad news and I'm like what's the
good news so the good news is I'm pretty
clear you're speaking at conferences
we've looked you up you're not an Afghan
world I said that's great what's the
problem what's the bad news he goes I'm
not allowed to make that decision I have
to check with was it's like your
coinbase thing I have to check with
Washington it'll take about four hours
you're going to miss your flight have a
seat I'll say you're kidding and
literally I got to the I was coming
across the border enough times that I
got to the point where the Border guys
were like hey Mr ismile how are you
please come aside for the security check
because we have to check with Washington
again that's the bad side right because
you can get stopped for all sorts of
bizarre things I've never seen that
anywhere else in the world okay here's
I'll give you the good side um I had a
very surreal incident in at 911 where
one of my family members who psychic
calls me up in the last two weeks of
August and says what are you doing the
first weeks of September uh 2001 I said
well I'm working I'm doing stuff and she
Saidi want you to leave I want you out
of New York City and I'd kind of learned
enough to kind of pay attention to this
that I took a vacation and I was in
Switzerland um and 911 happens and I
found out later looked up later i'
canceled a meeting in the World Trade
towers that Tuesday morning to go on
this trip um and just by accident I
wasn't there so now I have to get back
because the company I'm the co of is in
big trouble and I'm on the first plane
that lands into
jeffk uh after 911 the first flight the
first plane that landed lands back in
New York City um and you know selous
smell I look a bit Middle Eastern my
Canadian my US Visa for Canadian visa to
the US was expiring the next
day so I'm in deep trouble and I got to
the border of guards and they could not
have been more constructive and helpful
and um sensible and common sense in that
environment that I would ever have seen
anywhere else in the world unbelievable
so at at a very deep political level
there's lots of unbelievable freedoms
which is why I think this country is
very powerful however dayto day I feel
less
free H okay so here would be my take on
that let me know what you think um it
sounds like you have had run-ins that
sound more racist to me then they sound
anti- freedom but I get how if
somebody's stopping you every time you
around uh because of your name because
of your nationality whatever uh that
would leave a horrific taste in my mouth
now
Canada throws people's bank accounts
because they donated money to a uh
Rebellion a protest I don't even know
what to call it the trucker Convoy uh
that was Ultra terrifying they have
bills that compel speech so not just you
can't say this you must say this yes
that's insane from a freedom perspective
if people vote for it they should get
what they want but that certainly does
not feel free uh so AG when I think
about what freedoms matter for me what
you're calling freedom of expression
what I will call free speech is is quite
literally the ability to think and any
country and that would be every country
but America as far as I know does not
have freedom of speech at which point
they are 1984 style compelling the
breakdown of your own ability to think
properly yeah and then you stifle
Innovation you look at China as the
extreme where they're shutting down the
CEOs of the tech sector right they're
going to just kill Innovation completely
shutting down they they are literally
absconding with them taking them
somewhere doing something that makes
their expressions very different they
come out and you don't you know this is
an important point and I I will totally
you on this one okay um the ability to
Buck against the status quo is bigger
here than anywhere else in the world and
therefore you get disruptive innovation
and that fundamental Innovation is what
steers the US forward in a very powerful
way this is the whole root of American
exceptionalism is you see a problem you
fix it and I think that's a magical
magical thing and I think that's why I
said go back to my point of I choose to
I could live anywhere in the world I
choose to live here it's a really
amazing place however there's lots of
like I was in a an Uber going from San
Francisco to Marin once and the driver
was African-American and we pull into
Marin and there's a police check at the
side of the road and he literally starts
freaking out like he's shaking he's
completely completely spazzed out I'm
like dude what's wrong he goes you have
no idea what I go through when police
see me behind the wheel and I was like
Wow and it's just something I'm you know
just sits with me uh I don't I don't
have that problem yeah you unfortunately
to me I'm glad you don't have that
problem but you're what you were saying
about uh immigration giving you a hard
time you're not the first person to talk
about that where I thought you were
going with 911 was since then like
things have really just uh gone downhill
that I've heard that from many people
that have downhill in what sense of the
you mean IM experience feeling wanted is
probably how I would have framed it you
framed it as Freedom which makes me
think maybe I'm not mapping your mind
quite correctly um so anyway that that
part I certainly understand and has
always rubbed me the wrong way yeah uh I
tweeted something out
today around something that America does
this was actually Canadian though uh I
become unhinged when Banks act like my
money is their money I'm with you bro
and and by the way Canadians shutting
down the bank accounts was a very bad
black stain and I don't think they're
going to get out from under that for a
long timeous right because if I've got a
lot of money am I going to go to the
Canada and trust my money there I I need
to be able to get to my money and this I
think is an important part of maybe the
most powerful aspect of web 3 why we're
so excited about it is that you can have
full custodial of your money and your
value and nobody can take it away from
you I think that's a really powerful
place okay tell me how I'm wrong the
government can and will take your web 3
Holdings people always talk about the
wrench attack I can imagine no bigger
wrench than the US government they will
kneecap you they will imprison you they
will do whatever they have to I don't
understand people who think crypto makes
you immune from the government it the
following thing is true you can abscond
at night get on a boat and go to a
country let's say Estonia that does not
have negative stance on crypto and
because you can memorize your seed
phrase you can escape with your money
much easier so if I'm a German
uh sorry if I'm a Jew in Germany and
it's like
1939 hey I'm very grateful for
cryptocurrency because now I can just
bail and I can take my wealth with me so
do not get me wrong I love crypto the
most It's amazing I have so much
invested in crypto I'm a Believer but
when people act like governments can't
come in and take that from you that's
crazy town you can escape easier but the
vast majority of people should the
government government ever decide to
they will seize the out of it give
me so if I if my seed phrase is sitting
in England and I don't know it and I
don't have my sticks with me or anything
like that what's the government going to
do put you in jail oh that's fine they
can take my freedom war well that's but
they will never get my Bitcoin man this
is like your your uh Wallace moment
where you're being tortured to death I
think I think you you take my life but
you take my crypto this is the same
argument I use against guns right people
go I need guns because I need to be able
to fight against a a government that
comes after me yeah and I'm like they
can just they have bigger guns they do
but were the you talked about the
Afghans I'm telling you a distributed
Nation with a reason to fight and their
own weapons and I have not thought a lot
about the Second Amendment I'll be the
first to tell you but I'm like hey when
I look at the the reason they said they
gave us the first the second amendment
I'm like yeah word it you need to be
able to protect yourself from the
tyranny of just Bureau
a I'm totally good with that can I just
give you my beef on the Second Amendment
because I've gone pretty deep on this um
I and and I appreciate um the US enough
that I've gone pretty deep on all the
different structures Etc the US the
Second Amendment says you shall not ban
the right to bear arms in a
well-regulated
militia not that every Podunk guy should
have a gun it should be in a
well-regulated militia you Congress
cannot pass a law that will stop a
well-regulated militia
from over if Congress oversteps that is
the Second Amendment which is good we
pull up hit hit us with the Second
Amendment I need to see that it's
bringing home that I've actually never
read actual people forget um people
there you go a well-regulated
militia shall not be infringed that's
the second amendment who it doesn't say
that it says a well-regulated militia
being necessary to the security of a
free state the right of the people to
keep and bear arms shall not be
infringed now I read that that is saying
hey the people may need to build up a
well-regulated militia therefore I'm not
going to stop people from having guns so
what I hear is guns come first militia
comes second so I could very easily say
people saying look I hope I don't need
to become a well regulated militia but I
need the guns now oh I see you frame it
that way okay I think that's how it's
actually framed this is where we need
Clarity right can we is that really that
can't be the whole thing no way yeah
that's the entire second amendment that
is it is a single sent it's a single
sentence is that really true we're
watching my ignorance unfold in real
time the the amendments are this short I
thought these were like whole documents
they get longer as go down the list
scroll let me see these are scandalously
short if you guys all knew this and
never twet about it uh wow I can't
believe I didn't know this okay yeah
these are a little bit longer so this is
an interpretation it's still really
short wow yeah these are verbatim this
is the whole thing yeah the comment
section is going to be bowning on me
it's unbelievably beautiful I'm going to
say it again the US Constitution Bill of
Rights the most beautiful documents ever
created in crazy in the world right I
always thought when people gave these
bits they were just quoting from a much
larger document no that it's
hilarious I can't wait to see the
Twitter comments as you say but so so
this is some interpretation thing
because there it's a clause it's not
saying anybody can have rights and by
the way that it says a well-regulated
militia by the people
um shall not be infringed so the people
can have arms in a well-regulated
militia you and I read this so
differently this is utterly fascinating
for everybody listening that is not
familiar with this I want to read this
one more time pay attention to the
sequencing of these words a
well-regulated militia being necessary
to the security of a free state meaning
you do not have a free state if you
cannot protect yourself presumably from
the tyranny of State exactly so so uh
the right of the people to keep and bear
arms shall not be infringed that's
really interesting that to me you and I
read something super so if you had a
period there the right of the people to
keep in bar arms shall not be infringed
that would be fine but it's not that
it's the well-regulated militia
comma yeah so for if you if I mean I
will say this feels like an admonition
that we should have well-regulated
militias standing which I don't love
that well that's that's okay that's
that's I'm I'm good with that but guns
should be operating inside a
well-regulated militia not everybody in
their grandmother and free conceal and
all that
stupidity I have now met a ton of the
world's most accomplished people and
while intelligence definitely matters
what sets them apart isn't their IQ it's
that they understand that there is a
system to success that exact system the
one I've seen countless successful
people deploy to tremendous effect is
exactly what my wife Lisa billu detailed
out in her best-selling book radical
confidence she details what successful
people know to their core radical
confidence covers everything you need to
know to efficiently move towards your
goals there's a reason that this book
has topped the Amazon charts in multiple
categories received countless five-star
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the lessons so pick up your copy today
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radical confidence.com get started on
your dream life right
now if you think about technology and
you're able to predict a traffic jam
it's like whoa that's pretty insightful
you may get the car wrong but you get
the idea of mass transit and people will
bump into each other and it will slow
things down anyway so here are the the
beautiful things that I think will uh AI
will bring and if if you could let me
know just yes or no life extension I
think we will live longer okay uh I
think while it probably might will take
a while that AI will discover new
physics yeah okay new physics I think
will have as big of an impact on our
lives as somebody please solve the
ground unification theory in the wave
particle duality of light I have a
Physics degree talk to your boy Eric
Weinstein he thinks he thinks he's got
it uh new governmental structures new
and better better okay yeah policy
making should be done with an
AI for example if you want to drop
inflation by 2% do you think it should
be done by AI or should it
be heavily Guided by it for example if
you say hey we want to drop inflation by
2% a human being trying to make policy
looking at all the data has no hope in
making sense of anyone an AI could go oh
do these three things and the human
being can sense check it and go is that
reasonable or not and then off you go I
think we're going to end up with the
chess out come where the best chess
players are an AI and a human being and
that combination will be unbeatable
because there's still a sense of already
have the answer to that and that it's
just AI can a human add anything to the
greatest chest Common Sense are you sure
oh yeah can we look that at we need to
look that up I don't buy for a second
that a human can contribute anything to
a chess the best chess player a human
being and a chess AI will always beat an
AI Magnus Carlson when teamed with chess
AI beats chess a I by itself oh yeah
yeah this okay that's a noble thing
we're looking that up in the meantime uh
do you think that we will get free or
nearly free energy yes okay go deep on
that one what does nearly free energy
look like like why will that matter okay
let me go let me give you a graph that I
use in my presentations which is if you
went back 500 years ago the cost of
lighting up a building or a room was
unbelievably High whale blubber you had
to go kill whales and get the blubber
back and light up a candle Game of
Thrones technology then we found
paraffin and we could create candles
then we invented electricity and the
price of electricity so can I step back
one second this is there's two really
important things about technology that
are important here that people should
understand as we get into this number
one for the first time in human history
we have a dozen Technologies all
operating on an exponential doubling
pattern solar energy every 22 months
drones are doubling every 9 months in
their price performance Gene sequencing
every 6 months Etc the res solution at
which we can image the human brain is
doubling every year for example we've
never seen this many Technologies all
move at an accelerated Pace at the same
time so that's one the second thing that
I think is more profound that leads to
that um um PDI comment I made earlier or
um disruptive innov permissionless
disruptive innovation is that throughout
human history Advanced Technologies
always cost a lot and only a government
lab or a big corporate lab could do R&D
launch new products and services
today for the first time in human
history Advanced Technologies are cheap
AI is cheap uh sensors are cheap solar
energy cheap the blockchain is open
source anybody can now do disruptive
innovation so that if you couple that
with the idea that technology is a major
driver of progress in the world it might
be the only major driver of progress
we've ever seen in the world now you
have a dozen of them that cost very
little the there's going to be a camran
explosion of 20 Gutenberg moments all
coming down the pike so if we believe
the technology is an a force enabler for
good and and does delivers that then
we're in an unbelievable um um um
Heavenly space for the future of
innovation and all the things we're
going to come seeing out of it um how
quickly we Implement that is the Big
Challenge and that's the problem now
we've been fighting over oil for the
last 200 years big Wars Etc because that
was the cheapest form of energy we are
moving now to solar energy being the
cheapest form of energy and the Big
Challenge is what covers the base load
and I think small nuclear will do it uh
as well as thorium reactors which are
now safe nuclear reactors and over time
we'll find Sol Fusion but that's going
to be a while a ways away H uh so that
gives us free energy yeah free energy
means you can desalinate freely and that
means if you have clean water you take
out half of all the infectious diseases
in the world so the Ripple effects are
profound so energy in the next 5 to S
years will go to nearly free okay okay
so the desalinization is a great example
I'm going to say and it's possible I'm
I'm missing something huge here but I
don't think so if energy costs drop to
effectively zero the cost of everything
else will drop dramatically yes because
it takes energy to extract minerals from
the ground uh most of the things you
want in your life are about consuming
energy so uh when you're going to a
restaurant and buying food you're paying
so much of that is the energy cost for
transportation to get the meat from the
farm to the actual restaurant or the
cost of the energy to freeze the food
it's like the number of things that come
down to energy there's a guy named
Arthur Hayes I don't know if you know
who he is Arthur Hayes amazing guy I've
been on the show a couple times amazing
amazing and he said everybody should
think of their lives in terms of how
much energy how many kilowatts
essentially can you purchase with your
salary everything else is going to
fluctuate but that's the one that's
going to that metric yeah super
brilliant and so he doesn't look at how
much am I making he's only looking at
how much does that buy me he said it
reduces a lot of the illusion of oh my
wages are going up sure but if your
wages don't match the rise and the cost
of energy you could actually be making
more dollars technically but losing
purchasing power in energy which matters
more than people understand energy
touches every little corner of your life
the cost of your shampoo is tied the
cost of your water is tied just energy
energy everywhere energy the modern
world brought to you by oil so the best
metaphor I've seen for this whole
transition comes from Lawrence Bloom one
of my mentors he said to me you must
have paid a lot of money in another
dimension to be living this life and I
was like damn I think you're right so
this is his metaphor he he looks at at
Humanity as different stages of Rocket
lifting off Earth okay so when you first
have a rocket lifting off Earth you need
a really big fat booster rocket to get
your the enough energy to get you out of
the gravity well and so that's the
that's oil that's capitalism fossil fuel
capitalism has been an unbelievable
enabler to lift the world out of poverty
deliver all sorts of unbelievable
Innovation to us products and services
etc etc however when you have a rocket
and it's taking off at a certain
altitude you have to jettison that
booster rocket because that well if you
don't let it go it's going to pull you
back down if then you jettison it you
take on a much more lighter craft that
takes you to the next level so the
question is we are in that transition
point where we need to jettison fossil
fuel and jettison capitalism would I
would put it in another way and find
that lighter craft and what is that
lighter craft is now the interesting
question for me going forward but it's a
really important metaphor because it
doesn't um deny the benefits we've
gotten from cheap oil over the last few
hundred years absolutely delivering
unbelievable benefits into the world
yeah very well said okay so that is a
very much tip of the iceberg in terms of
all the amazing things that I think AI
will help us race to timelines we will
inevitably get wrong um I like to give
timelines though as a way of anchoring
people around my thinking as of today
with full knowledge that I know whatever
timeline I give is is going to be broken
sure um but I'll I'll walk you through a
very quick breakdown of the phases that
I see over the next 10 years um and let
me know what you think about this so uh
over the next three years it'll be
marked by things are getting easier so
cost of energy is going down you can do
more with less um some amount of your
work if you're a graphic designer will
be done by AI like some of the things
that adobe's doing is just unbelievable
and so that's going to be happening all
over in law in healthcare and just
things will get easier um existential
dread is going to set in for the young
because of what I call um the famous
quote from Gretzky don't skate to where
the puck is Skate to where the puck is
going to be that used to be tremendously
good advice
hey you're going to graduate in year
2030 so don't don't think about what's
happening today think about 2030 but now
that puck is teleporting yeah so it's
very hard to predict where that's
actually going to be when you graduate I
think that's really going to cause a
high rate of anxiety and depression
among the young um I think what I call
the pure human movement is going to
start so there'll be this sense of like
oh we reject any brain computer
interface we reject anything where um AI
you're already seeing this in the art
movement so as much as I literally as
the words adobe's doing amazing things
is coming out of my mouth I know a
portion of my audience is going to
attack me because they are absolutely
livid at the way that adobe has trained
their things and they feel like they've
just been stolen from so the pure human
movement is going to begin so this this
creation brought to you by only humans
no AI touches whatsoever uh there's
going to be a softening of the job
market because I mean I'll just speak
for myself I have definitively hired
less people because we been deploying AI
as much as we can yes all right so
that's three years nothing insane you're
going to have like chat GPT moments
where it was like huge for a minute
seemed like it was going to
revolutionize everything but then you're
kind of like did it uh five years the
riots begin but they're going to be
minor uh it's going to be people like um
I the whmo car that got vandalized right
so whmo self-driving car there's no
driver in it's crazy when you see them
in real life uh one they smashed its
Windows lit it on fire maybe not because
it was self driving maybe not because of
what it represents or maybe precisely
because of what it represents I think
you're going to start seeing more of
that and that's already happening uh
deaths of Despair are going to go up
we're already seeing that in the US um
you have there's a breakdown of the
countries um listed in order of the
number of suicides per thousand yeah
it's bad it's it's pretty crazy that it
does not map to affluence yeah so you
have some really um poverty stricken
countries not doing well and you have
really affluent countries not doing well
so money is not going to solve the
problem so as AI unleashes everything is
getting cheaper it's not going to solve
the problem uh because of meaning and
purpose which we will certainly get more
into yes um I think the pure human
movements starts actually um breaking
machines so whether they're Whos whether
they're those little robots that W Yep
they're they're going to go after those
there's going to be a massive job
transition happening so you're going to
get a ton of graduates going into the
world like hey there's no jobs you're
going to see people shift into more for
um trades so being a plumber and things
that it's going to be harder at least
for now before robots hit uh regulation
is going to start to escalate so the
masses begin to panic they begin voting
people into power on this issue will you
stop or at least dramatically slow AI I
think that's going to really ramp up in
the 5-year time frame uh and then in the
seven-year time frame AI is going to be
better at most things than humans I
think we're going to see a horrifying
spike in either it will either uh in
fact it'll be both you'll see a
tremendous spike in deaths of Despair
because people AI will just be better
than you at everything and that will be
really damaging for the young who try to
look out and say well if I got really
good at this thing it will matter to
humanity and I think they'll come up
empty and unfortunately even though we
probably will give Ubi of some kind it's
just not going to solve the problem
because I think humans need meaningful
Pursuit and if they don't need to win at
a thing to win money I think they'll
actually have a problem and hey look at
the homelessness Cris
when you give people money and you don't
regulate them some portion not most
nowhere near but some people just go
cool I'm just going to do drugs all day
uh the prum thing is is going to riot at
scale uh you hit 10 years you get a real
bifurcation in humanity some break it's
just pure human and some are like I'm
all cyborg all the time uh which if
people don't know right now today as
we're recording this the first person to
get a neuralink brain computer interface
has already happened it's already
happened this guy beat his dad now
that's his dad but beat his dad at a
game of Mario Kart with his mind he did
not touch a controller he can't even
move his arms okay and he it is insane
when you see him play because they show
you this uh one of these is being played
by somebody using their arms and the
other is being played by somebody just
with their mind you can't tell the
difference it is
unbelievable so anyway you can aim the
shells oh God I was blew me away so
you're going to get 10 years from now
you're going to have people that were
quadriplegics that are now moving about
with an exoskeleton or maybe even able
to bypass the break and just literally
control their own limbs again it's going
to be pure Insanity uh you're now going
to be hitting where energy is just
ridiculously low uh healthc care is
going to be
unbelievable you're going to have magic
AI doctors but you're also going to have
sex bots you're going to have just an
absolute cratering of traditional Human
Relationships yes and this is where the
tralization will really be important
because otherwise people are just going
to stop having kids because you're
having sex with your sex bot who knows
you perfectly and can morph into
whatever you want that day oh God it's
going to get so weird all right what' I
get wrong oh um so I think I it's
entirely plausible as a scenario right
and as if you're a futurist you're
always looking at scenario plannings and
and as a vector that's completely
accurate I disagree with a couple of
things I think I disagree with the kids
will be upset about this I think the
kids in our framing the kids will be
upset about this but kids natively grow
up in the model the world that they're
in and they just take it as normal how
did we break them so much with social
media Ah that's a different problem
that's fixable and I think we'll be
fixing that pretty soon I think you you
get them off social media is the problem
it's too much of an addictive uh sugar
drug type model for what for the utility
that it's delivering and that's a
regulatory problem um the governments
have been incredibly laxed I think in in
navigating that I see the AIS being used
by the social media companies as proof
of what AI does in
practice that feels like an AI problem
to me yes Tik Tok will suck you into a
Vortex it's but you know my my
12-year-old comes to me and he goes dad
um I haven't had a chance this week to
play fortnite because I've been this had
a basketball turn we here and we went
there he goes I feel a lot better my my
my friends are up playing I'm not going
to do it I'm going to try like he goes
how do you you know what do you want me
to do with this like it's so weird I
said you know what give it another day
without it and another day and just take
it one day at a time and see how you
feel and it's incredibly inspiring to
hear him reflect on it and do that now
not that everybody's doing that or can
or will or whatever but I think we'll
figure that out we've always had this
problem okay when we were growing up
this problem okay uh um the parentals
not uh understanding what their kids are
going through and trying to fix the kids
when I was growing up there was like
they were like get off the phone what
the hell are you doing you don't need to
be on the phone for hours with your
friends etc etc right um there's lots of
constructive ways in which you can use
technology and some of what's coming in
a very powerful way I'll give you an
example I have a friend who has four
kids uh four girls and and when he was
growing bringing them up he at an early
age from like five six seven years he
started watching reality TV shows with
them Survivor and all the weird ones I'm
like you watch those uh with your kids
he goes yeah I sit down with them
because when they go to the playground
they've got one instance of a bullying
or something or some when I sit with
them day after day and they watch this
they're getting a lesson on human nature
I sit with them so that we could talk
about what's going on we start
predicting and all those four girls have
become unbelievable leaders in their own
right over the over the years they're
now about 20 years old
each because he had the foresight to go
be with them and bring them along that
journey and they'll learn faster because
they'll assemble the knowledge faster
Douglas Adams who wrote hitchhiker's guy
to the Galaxy I think said this the best
he said anything in the world when
you're born that's normal
anything that's invented when you're
young that's a career and anything
invented after you're 35 years old is
just bad just bad for the world and I
think that's a great framing for what's
happening today we freak out about what
the younger kids because we don't
understand it and we don't know how
they're going to adapt to it and I think
we just have to trust them that they
will figure it out we figured it out you
know our parents were freaked out about
us going to movies and playing video
games and whatever and we figured it out
and I think the kids today we'll figure
it out again take me with my optimism
bias because I have a deep optimism bias
around some of this stuff I want people
to take me with my optimism bias as well
because I am entirely swung that way and
yet even with that bias I'm going to ask
the following question do you think
there is such a thing as a rate of
change so rapid that children cannot
adapt that children cannot adopt that's
a great question um
yes and that would be what we would call
The Singularity right so we are hitting
that right now in AI does your audience
know what the singularity is uh you
should give it to them and you should
also tell me what year you think we hit
that okay I don't believe in it by the
way so heard you talk on this so but
give it to us all the whole shebang so
verer V coing this phrase the
technological singularity and he
basically said the minute machine
intelligence overtakes human
intelligence then we take on a
technological evolutionary path not an
biological evolutionary path and what
the minute that happens we are complete
the world is completely different and
Ray popular Ray kwell popularized that
as the singularity and wrote this book
called The singularities near in
1999 positing that in 2045 we would get
to that point where machine intelligence
overtakes human intelligence okay I
disagree with this for two levels okay
first and I've had lots of conversations
about with Ray on this uh the first is
that we don't know what intelligence
is um the IQ test measures two aspects
of intelligence the speed of thought
processing and the ability to match
Concepts across Frameworks but we have
many dimensions about a dozen other
facets of intelligence like linguistic
intelligence spatial intelligence um
emotional intelligence this concept of
spiritual awareness or the concept of
presence the Eastern concept of being
present none of that are reflected in an
IQ test and that whole sum of the parts
is what we call intelligence so my first
B issue with it is what the hell do you
mean by intelligence right and the
second issue I have is what do you mean
by overtaking because the minute I can
prescriptively describe a task an AI
robot is going to do much better than me
anyway and so let them do it and
therefore it frees me to be much more
creative and so on and I think what
we're doing is we're merging with
technology and this is where Ry and I
definitely do agree uh where you're
emerging with technology such that The
Human Experience is augmented and
Amplified the fact that I have a
SmartPhone I would I would argue makes
me more human than less human because my
memories in there freeing up lots of
neurons to do other work I can
communicate with my son for free around
the world which is unbelievable I can
project empathy around the world which
is incredible so I have I'm more human
with my device than without it and I
think that's a powerful commentary for
where intelligence goes most people
worry about AI is oh my God it'll come
take come on and take over the world and
will destroy us and if we're lucky we're
pets and if we're unlucky we're food
it's kind of like pretty much always
goes that way Skynet Terminator The
Matrix but we actually see is We're
augmenting The Human Experience with
technology at an amazing level um and I
think that's very very inspiring we're
more human now so let's let's look at
education for example over the last or
jobs over the last 200 years we
roboticized our employees said that's
your job function do that at one job
you're an audit accountant you do Audits
and you do it repetitively and we're
going to measure You by how quickly and
how effectively and how fast and and
mistake-free are your Audits and not
your bonuses based on that so we turn
people into robots people on me assembly
line stamping out widgets now with the
Advent of AI and Robotics and so on
people are becoming much more human
again the most valuable employees or
colleagues you have in any company are
the people that learn the fastest and
that's a magical thing to be now as AI
comes along the big challenge is and I
would argue that in the concept of what
you would call the singularity in AI
we've hit the singularity the pace of
change in AI is now so fast you can't
absorb it by the time you've you've made
an investment your your investment is
out of date and so this is a huge
structural challenge with this it's it's
I'll give you an analog in the in the
education world if you're doing a
master's degree in Neuroscience today by
the time you finish your master's degree
you're out of date because computational
Neuroscience is overtaking the field so
fast that it's it's making the old ways
irrelevant very quickly so our the
structural issue we have in education is
we can't update our educational
Frameworks quickly enough to deal with
all the new changes and AI I think is is
the epitome of that right now um and
this is where I made the comment Elon
tweeted this little video a couple of me
last weekend saying there's no mechanism
that we can see by which you can
regulate AI at all at all you'd have to
to regulate every line of code written
and I just don't see that happening
that's when you really have issues with
Freedom by 10 years from now you're now
in
2034 uh Elon made a quip that in the
2032 election it won't be a question of
what human will win it will be a
question of what AI now assuming that
he's kidding haaha but that he's
directionally indicating it um I think
that Rey is going to be right by 2029
which is is well under my 10-year time
frame here uh you've got AI is just
smarter than any single human so that
means AI is going to be better than
every human at
anything then it becomes a question of
did before we get there did they start
having existential dread based on the
rate at which things are changing who's
they the kids yeah kids I I think this
impacts everybody but kids will be the
most paralyzed because they don't have
the World experience to know oh I can
navigate this way I deeply disagree with
this whole smarter than human beings
thing okay so we're again going back to
the definition of intelligence we don't
have a clear definition of intelligence
okay so because now you have said if
something can be defined I forget the
exact word you use but if it can if a
task can be defined by the minute I can
prescriptively describe a task yep and
AI name a thing that you think humans
will continue to be better than than AI
at in 10 years um empathy creativity
humor um there's lots of domain
spiritual
awareness the only one of those I'm
going to give you is humor maybe and
they probably get thrash oh they'll get
way better at jokes sure then what's
left what do you mean well but the the
but now you see what see look okay let
me let me describe what I'm we need to
get clear on what we're talking about
intelligence okay so we have this
concept of intelligence and we think
some things will be smarter than us but
in what way is it faster is it better is
it more complete that's one challenge
right cuz there's all these other facets
of intelligence that make us human
beings that are different common sense
for example Etc then you bleed into AGI
you have narrow AI which always is going
to be better than a human being because
it's anti-lock breaking systems credit
card fraud detection we use narrow AI to
run the world today if you took that out
the world would just grind to a halt
very quickly then we get to AGI which
artif IAL general intelligence the
ability to match Concepts across
Frameworks and that's what people talk
about I think when people talk about
intelligence today that AI once they
achieve AGI will be able to do tasks
better than human beings okay now
actually look at this as an optimistic
thing because there's a lot of human
white color drudgery that AIS will take
over okay I'll give you a small example
I'm a booking agent for clubm Resorts
and a family calls and they go we want
we have three families we want two
joining rooms and and the kids have to
be all on the same floor and and I I
have to go do a lot of crappy work to
figure out how I'm going to manage that
permutation and there's a ton of stupid
that goes into figuring that out a
t takes a ton of my time that's where I
think AI will shine a lot but it'll
allow me to then Focus my time on real
problem solving or areas where they're
less good and yes over time we won't
need that human a booking agent because
the AI will do a lot of it anyway okay
but that's been a steady Vector forever
the many you have a concrete truck it
replaces 100 concrete workers shoveling
concrete you you free them up to do more
high order things and and so on so the
question is what work will there be
there to do and I think this is the
really big question that we don't have a
CL that's where I think the the
interesting question is the rest of it I
think is is fear mongering to some
extent and by the way I see AGI just
like intelligence kind of we had the
Turing test that kept Shifting the
goalpost and then all of a sudden we
passed it a long time ago and we're like
oh not a big deal I think AGI will be
like that we we'll have AGI and
everybody go oh my God we have AGI and
then it'll become oh this is okay and
it'll be normal and I think AGI is
bleeding into what we would call
Consciousness and there again you have a
big definition problem and a test
problem we don't have a definition for
Consciousness we don't have a test for
Consciousness right a subset of
Consciousness is self-awareness and you
look like you're self-aware so I tribute
rute self-consciousness self-awareness
to you I feel like I'm I'm self-aware
but my wife disagrees so it's really
hard to even have the conversation
because we don't have a clear definition
of this and so and and when you bleed
into those areas where I think things
get really really
interesting um quick anecdote I remember
we had a robotics expert one of the NASA
astronauts was used to build robots when
we were doing Singularity and I asked
them a question I said look is there a
system in the world that has the inputs
and outputs and enough processing power
that it might generate self-a awareness
um and it might suddenly go oh I'm a
system right and and he's like huh let
me think about that so he goes off a
couple of days he comes back and he goes
I think I have an answer I'm like okay
he goes Traffic Systems I said really he
goes yeah he goes in my opinion I've
thought about this for a couple of days
Traffic Systems have enough inputs and
outputs and processing capability that
one day it might generate self-awareness
and might go oh I'm a traffic system
right and the question two questions
emerged at that point what would it do
and how would we
know and the problem is we wouldn't know
so I think when we hit AGI we won't know
when an AI hits that point we won't know
when an AI hits Consciousness because we
would have a test a test for
it and as like and and just to Su help
this whole thing like R kwell put it
most brilliantly he was asked once about
Consciousness and he goes language is a
really thin pipe to discuss Concepts as
complex as that
Ray is brilliant I love Ray the most he
was the very first audio book I ever
read so I will forever have uh a Deb of
gratitude I've interviewed him I've Had
The Good Fortune of dining with him but
that is a cheap excuse not to think
about a very hard problem it it is it is
uh but it's a valid observation we
struggle a great deal with language so I
think what ends up you have to really
you have to really think back when you
talk all about all this stuff
intelligence cautious you have to go
back to what is a human being and this
is where I become really fascinated I've
been fascinated for a long time in
metaphysics and I've been fascinated by
what is The Human Condition and I have
actually a diagram that that that I
think summarizes this Nic I want to wrap
this point first that is 100% an area
that we will touch on before we go so I
have really unique insights there um but
first I want to say I think
Consciousness is a red herring okay and
I want to reorient people what we're
talking about is are are we all going to
struggle as AI gets better than us at
everything I think kids will be the
canary and the coal mine you think kids
will be the far more resilient your
argumentation and please if I say this
in a way that you don't recognize or
think is uncharitable let me know um but
that we don't even understand what
intelligence is these systems might
become conscious but we'll never know
because there's no way for us to engage
with that kids are going to get it
they're going to use AI in the way that
they use it they'll step away from it
when like you're son with fortnite when
it stops being useful in his life he's
going to step back people need to
understand my base assumption that I
think the brain developed so that humans
could move why did humans need to move
so they could take control of their
environment why did they need to take
control of their environment so they
could survive yes so then the game from
an uh evolutionary algorithm standpoint
becomes to keep this thing alive long
enough to have kids it have kids and the
the granddaddy of all the algorithms
that it planted in our brains is the
desire for Meaningful Pursuit both of
those words are important meaningful
means I can draw a straight line between
going out and killing this thing and the
survival of the people that I love so yo
like this really mattered it was a whole
thing and so when we do it we're
celebrating and we feel all the
neurochemistry that we want to feel this
is awesome that is Meaningful Pursuit
this is why when you have a job that
feels like a dead end and it's not going
anywhere and all it does is let you pay
your rent it's not interesting now once
AI becomes it crosses the unan Valley
and it's no longer like Chad gbt giving
you the lamest dad jokes ever and it is
Blade Runner and I without
doing a special test where I put a thing
up against your iris I can't tell if
you're real or not and in fact you don't
even know if you're real or not now
again Consciousness is a red herring
okay who cares it is just like hanging
out with your friend except for one
really brutal fact they're better than
you at everything possible and so now
it's like well this really sucks because
meaningful Pursuit would be that I need
to go do a thing to help me and mine but
energy costs have dropped to zero
because these things are so damn good at
everything that now why would I go do
that because we can just get an AI to do
it way better than me yes that kid when
he's or adult when they're interfacing
with an entity that is better than them
at everything they're going to be like
huh how do I have meaningful meaningful
Pursuit and the answer will be you get
meaningful pursuit in the next life and
I just need you to do these things and
you're going to have meaning today even
though we don't need you to go capture
an animal cuz all that's taken care of
but I'm going to give you this path to
meaning through this ancient book
through this tribe and all of that and
bro it's going to get weird and I lay
all these pieces out on the table for
one reason and one reason only because
again I'm wearing a shirt that is neon
future because I believe technology is
going to make our lives better but one
of the earliest things we talked about
is those spikes on a graph that is human
nature that is an idea set moving
through the medium of the human mind and
the way humans act as a collective and
if we plant wise ideas now if we warn
people about this stuff if we talk about
hey here's how you Branch to Mad Max
here's how you Branch to Utopia let's
make sure that we're all hyper aware of
how the human mind breaks bad and how it
can break good then there's one last
thing that I have to say because I find
very smart people like yourself are not
facing a very ugly truth and that very
ugly truth is this is this is a
paraphrase but it's going to get really
damn
close uh you said that people will be
able to step into a higher order of
existence engagement with the world as
all the sort of menial stuff is taken
away now the reason that feels true to
you is you are very smart the bad news
is that human intellect is on a gigantic
scale and Einstein who's only like a 165
IQ and I say only on purpose because the
smartest person living I think is a 220
so uh and I mean that literally in
the the actual Webster dictionary
definition is like somebody with an 83
IQ I think so the difference between
that person and Einstein if I remember
right it's like 2.6 or something like
that uh in terms of the difference in IQ
and it's almost that again between
Einstein and the smartest person okay an
AI by according to Ray kerswell is going
to be a million times smarter than you
so it's like bro if the difference
between Einstein and a is 2.6 and
we're talking about something that is a
million times smarter than you I will
hypothesize that we have officially hit
the point at which the rate of change
will be so rapid that you you can't
absorb it and so now your only answer is
and again you need only look at Elon
Musk who's doing all of this stuff in
plain view you have to merge with
technology yeah to keep up to have
meaningful for Meaningful Pursuit you
have to be able to keep up with them
from just a raw horsepower perspective
but again Society will break along those
lines people that will and people that
won't and if that does not strike people
as to quote you from the beginning the
most dramatic seismic shift in human
existence ever then I I I I'm at a loss
to help them understand change wonderful
articulation I think that was a really
great and very tight concise
articulation of a future and there's
absolutely valid points that you make
all the way up and down I have a couple
of Point issues one is um when you say
kids will be despairing because they
won't be able to do things as good as an
AI I disagree with that because I don't
think they'll dispair they'll go oh that
thing's better I'll do this I'll I'll go
do something else or I'll figure
something else out so that's I don't
think they'll go to despair they will
innovate their way out of the problem
innovate all they just adapt kids are
adaptive they just figure it out and
they just adapt explain to me how
they've adapted to social media well
badly because it's it's it's sucked up
their minds but that's true why they
adapt poorly to social media but
wonderfully to this really brutally
intelligent AI yeah so now that becomes
how do you guide them and how do you
manage them and how do you parent them
Etc and many cases are doing a very bad
job because they're leaving them to the
social media and that's just
up their brains okay um however
there's some really interesting vectors
coming out of that there's a woman out
of Chicago called Nicole dry who looked
at this device Den addiction problem and
social media addiction problem he said
you know the problem is not the fact not
we're looking at the wrong problem here
the problem is their high order thinking
is not triggered they're passively
consuming they're just viewing a screen
and they're not really they so how do we
trigger that if we can then it doesn't
matter what they watch so she created a
program called screen smart where they
take kids through a a little program and
uh you can literally boils down to if
you as a parent sit with your child
twice a week for 15 minutes and ask them
a set of leading questions for example
you're watching a movie why do you think
the characters are doing what they're
doing what do you think the director was
trying to achieve with this plot what
would you do direct differently if you
were the director if you do that twice a
week for 15 minutes it turns out that
even when they're on their own their
higher order thinking starts buzzing and
they now actively engaging with the
content they've Not Taken like a few
tens of thousands of kids through this
program it's unbelievable the outcomes
they're seeing from this they've broken
the addiction problem their vocabularies
are increased like 86% or something
crazy like this it's just so I it's one
of those where I think we'll figure it
out just like we figured out um how once
we realize that the the addiction
patterns of social media we need to
regulate it and say like not that it's a
great example but in China they're
saying you can't have social media until
you're a certain age because your brain
has to be more fully formed Etc I think
we'll figure that part out it's just
there's an arms race problem always in
this stuff where something happens and
then we figured out the consequences and
then we fix it Etc um the reason I'm
tend to be optimistic is when you bring
more intelligence into the world the
world just becomes better uh now we do
have definitely the paperclip problem
which is in the extension of your AI um
uh um talking about training and
education Etc the the the you know the
paper clip problem right you say do a
make all the paper clips and it sucks
all the energy out of human beings
because it wants to it gets lost in it
gets lost in the letter of it objective
I think that's a huge danger okay
because two inflection points came out
when we um allowed AIS to code and gave
them access to the code base and the
second one was when they got access to
the internet and those two put together
mean that AI can program pretty much
whatever it wants and there's no
question there's going to be bad agents
out there trying to do these things in a
particular way I still tend to be
optimistic because as the cost drops the
reasons to fight drop etc etc I don't
see the Terminator Matrix scenarios
which are always a Hollywood thing I do
agree we need to me blend with
technology and we need to merge with AI
because it'll just make all of our
bodily functions better an AI deeply
embedded into my body would be fantastic
because I'd reach for a donut and it
would say whoa whoa whoa I'm still
metabolizing your coffee please wait 10
minutes and for God's sakes don't have
the donut have something else right um
by the way it's amazing what you and
Lisa are doing across the board with
with nutrition and all the wellness
stuff and the women's empowerment it's
just one of the most important vectors
that we could pursue in terms of uh
helping human beings get more better and
human more human and more about the
world side thing um but in terms of AI
specifically I think we'll end up
merging with it in that particular way
because what's going to happen is an AI
is it and you saw this in Star Trek next
Generation what did data want more than
anything else he wanted to be human he
wanted to experience what it meant like
to be human and I think that's where
it'll go Lord knows I hope you're right
okay so let's talk about what it means
to be human then what what is it the
data wants give me your base assumptions
on um
on what makes somebody human okay so if
I step back a second I'm totally
fascinated by metaphysics meaning what
is reality made of okay and I've been
fascinated by for a very long time do
you mean that like at the physics level
at the physics yeah like what is reality
made of we have experiences we have
objective facts like what is the
building blocks of reality like actual
SpaceTime cor physics studies reality
yep metaphysics thinks about what is
reality made of like what are the
billing blocks of the comp not Crossing
aasm can we look up a definition of
metaphysics please well it's it's the
metal doesn't matter but I've been I've
been fascinated by it in terms of we for
example most of our philosophies operate
on a subjective set of metaphysics or an
objective set of
metaphysics okay okay so our metaphysics
that we run the world on today is a
subject object metaphysics either I have
a subjective experience about the world
or there's an object of reality and we
try and measure that those are the two
points um we've kind started over the
last 20 30 years to graduate past that
to say there's a different type of it's
an
experiential uh basis for reality that
is sitting doesn't fit there's lots of
aspects about the world that aren't
entirely subjective and aren't entirely
objective like moral values for example
many of us may share the same moral
values but they're not scientifically
measurable right so there you have an
example of or love or emotions Etc where
lots of people can share the same
emotion but you can't objectively
measure them yet in in a particular
right so there's a whole modality in in
the metaphysics world looking at you
need to look at reality as a phase shift
from uh um um potential to realized or
unknown to known would be a good way of
doing it a good metaphor would be if I
have a blocker marble in front of me and
I'm a
sculptor until I start chipping away
that thing is completely unrealized
potential it could be anything then I
start chipping away and I'm form it into
the shape of a head now it's it's
realized now I can break it it and I can
break that value but I've created value
I've taken something that was in my head
and instantiated into that thing and
there's a phasing of how the world may
is working they we really getting pretty
interested by in terms of describing
reality overall I got down this rabbit
hole because of the quantum mechanics
issue uh when you study Physics you do
three years of classical physics and
then in third year they give you quantum
mechanics and and they tell you
everything you learned is out out the
window and you're like come on you you
just had me do millions of exams and
study millions of chapters and now
you're telling me everything is out the
window so I I went down the rabbit hole
of of quantum mechanics and and and the
subjective nature of reality and so on
so uh and I started researching this and
for me when I think about Humanity uh I
came up with a diagram which has three
concentric circles in it so picture
three concentric circle with with the
middle is just your soul shining out
your soul is just trying to express
um and it hits some layers it hits a
boundary condition which is your
subconscious and there's gaps when it
can shine through that subconscious and
there's gaps when it can't shine through
the subconscious and when you transcend
and you hit get through that you have
your conscious self and there's again
gaps areas where it gets stopped and
areas where it shines through so it's
almost like dashed lines in two two
concentric circles around a solid dot
the soul is just trying to express it's
just trying to be whatever your
definition of soul is and again we have
a definition problem but it's trying to
be it's energy uh unconditional love
would be a good metaphor for it it's
just trying to express it might hit
subconscious blockages in that
expression like I don't think I'm good
enough or some of the limiting beliefs
that Tony Robbins talks about if you can
cut through those you may have conscious
limitations like hey I really want to
play the guitar but I've got to feed my
kid first and you make conscious choices
as to how much you're sometimes it comes
all the way out and that's when you see
true flow States when you see pure
spiritual experiences uh Messi playing
soccer is an example of somebody there's
no separation or Michael Jordan playing
basketball it's going straight from Soul
coming out with no u hindrances along
the way right um so our job as human
beings as I put it in the context of
this diagram is either rotate that
Kaleidoscope so your soul can shine out
Sor I want to make sure so I got soul
conscious self what was the third soul
and then the next level is your
subconscious L got it got it got it okay
Soul subconscious and then conscious
okay and then there's other layers past
that like family and culture and other
things but but for the most important of
those two and our job as a human being
is to rotate that subconscious and
conscious so that my inner soul shines
out Tiger Woods playing golf is a good
any artist on stage can you give me so
remove this from the level of metaphor
okay uh and take me so uh just to
crystalize make sure I understand the
metaphor here would be the dotted lines
if they are not aligned you might go
through one level but then you're going
to hit the wall of the next or they
might be aligned such that you don't
even make it the soul doesn't even get
to the subconscious it just hits
something and comes back yeah what what
are the dotted lines in reality the
dotted lines are your subconscious
belief systems that you've built up over
growing up as a kid so for example if uh
um growing up in Canada I thought
there's no way I'm playing basketball at
any level because I'm Indian and I
Indians can't play basketball so that's
limiting belief so I I didn't try hard
enough at basketball until I got a
little bit early older and then I was
like this I can try for this I can
go for this um was basketball already in
your soul no it was just a thing to do
but it was an expression of me at some
level I ended up on the high school team
but it's Canadian basketball so it's
much lower level than as my old business
partner you say oh you're Canadian
you're like the junior varsity team the
the Raptors are Furious right now they
are very very unhappy yes I agree anyway
um uh so you your your soul may Express
and be hit by subconscious beliefs that
stop you okay um it's also a protective
mechanism when something really bad
happens in the world you want to protect
the soul so let's say you're you go back
50,000 years of of families at home the
husband goes out on a hunt never comes
back and the woman needs some
psychological blockage to protect from
that trauma so the subconscious has a
two-l filter protect allowing this to
come out and allowing stopping bad
things coming from the ins outside okay
then you have your conscious blockages
that say I really want to do this but
really I need to do this first and
you're making triaging non-stop as a
human being and so I think of the human
condition as either rotate that
Kaleidoscope so your soul shines out in
whatever form it's meant to shine out in
or dissolve those barriers so that more
of it expresses so if you look at a
Gandhi or a Christ or a Dalai Lama done
the work to to dissolve all of their
subconscious barriers and their
conscious barriers and they're just
shining and you see that that's why you
always see a Halo in religious diagrams
Etc and we pay to see this by the way
when an a great artist is on stage
there's they've trained and trained and
trained for years to go a full
expression of their soul out onto the
field or out onto a stage or whatever
can you define what the soul is it's
very hard I think of it as energy uh you
could think of it as just pure love uh I
think of it as pure expression so in
this framework you can't have a bad Soul
like evil is evil is the blockage of
light it's not the
darkness uh so in this metaphor um uh
evil would be the lack of light not the
fact that you can be bad so the the soul
is just Shining Light it's just trying
to express okay so everybody every one
of us has parts of ourselves that we
just want to Express we just want to be
okay so I feel like we're switching
between uh discussions of physics So
when you say energy I think of physics
uh Shining Light I think of physics a
radiating body where photons are
actually flying away from said body uh
do you mean that the soul is a physical
thing that actually radiates okay so in
in non
um in non- esoteric terms
what is the
soul I this is a language problem it's a
piece of Consciousness or a
metaconsciousness there's two there's
two classical definitions of Soul or
Consciousness in this model one is
there's an emergent property coming from
inside that just needs to get out just
needs to express itself is it an
emergent property from the brain uh I
think it's from a collective
Consciousness and we don't know where
Soul sits it kind it's kind of sits
everywhere sits makes it sound like it
does have a physical manifestation it it
manifests physically definitely
expresses physically do only humans have
a soul I I don't believe so I think any
living being has
is Choy has a soul I think I think so in
a weird way so Deepak chopras I think
puts it best he says look there's a
global field of Consciousness and you're
an instantiation out of that
Consciousness and what are you trying to
do you're trying to get back to that
Consciousness so dualist are you a
dualist I'm somewhat of a dualist yeah
okay I'm I'm kind of an agnostic in this
like I'm again I don't know what we mean
by Soul it's a very hard problem to get
into that definition right um uh you
have religious um metaphors for it you
have energetic metaphors forward you
have Eastern metaphors we talked about
reincarnation the last time we were we
on this program so there's lots of ways
of the Soul can express through multiple
lifetimes if you believe in that model
um um but you're progressing through
different different stages and and
basically just expressing so if you
think of a a tennis player feder Roger
feder he he really his soul really
wanted to play tennis and he found a
mechanism where mozar playing piano um
and it goes from a junior to a young
professional to getting on the tour and
then make winning championships Etc and
just keeps going at it and add it and
add it until he can get as far as he can
get and that's the that that basic
motivation and that quest for just
getting better and wanting to experience
what it's like to win win Wimbledon or
whatever I think of his soul what about
people um take somebody like Andre
Agy uh who absolutely hated his life was
completely miserable or Steve Martin
greatest comedian of all time when he
was doing it and there's literally a
movie he's in the the theater watching a
movie in England and the character on
the screen says it's from uh the movie
Fame I just just want to be Steve Martin
and Steve Martin's watching that going
you don't want to be Steve Robin
Williams I mean yeah so these people are
profoundly unhappy but they are from the
outside they're the people that you
would say their soul is shining the
brightest I'm saying their soul is
definitely shining out I didn't say they
were the the the happiest because um
take tiger take um Tiger Woods as a good
example right in the realm of golf he's
aligned his Kaleidoscope perfectly so
that when he's playing golf when he was
younger he was like completely there and
there's this unbelievable presence that
you felt when you playing golf you see
that with we saw that with Jordan
playing basketball or Messi playing
soccer or any great artist on stage in
the other areas of his life complete hot
mess complete mess because that they
haven't done the work to dissolve some
of the subconscious blockages and and um
um limiting beliefs he may have Etc this
is where I think techniques like neural
linguistic programming and NLP and CBT
are really powerful today to help us
navigate some of these areas now the
problem is when you have a tortured Soul
like that there is so much blockage in
in those areas that it it comes out in
one narrow area Robin Williams or Steve
Martin are great examples of this and it
shines unbelievably brightly because of
that focused laser but it's a very very
the rest of the lives can be very very
difficult uh so they figure out how to
rotate the Kaleidoscope so they their
soul if the soul can't express and
you've got complete seiling across the
board then you have often suicide
because the soul can't express and then
people go well what's the purpose I
can't express my soul so might as well
leave the world H uh so uh this was an
answer to what makes us human uh what I
hear in all that I don't I don't know if
it's what you're intending to
communicate so because you're speaking
in metaphor I then map to the metaphors
that I use actually that's not true
because you speak in metaphor I'm
mapping it to the physical realities
that um are my base assumptions okay so
my base assumptions are that uh there is
absolutely no dualism whatever we're
calling the soul is exactly tied to the
human body it's a combination of the
brain the uh neural cells that exist in
the heart and the enteric nervous system
which also uses brain cells and the
microbes and like that whole crazy
cocktail combined with experience gives
you the what I think you call Soul like
if if um Tiger Woods was born 10,000
years ago he would not have played golf
yeah so but he would have found
something that you're calling Soul so to
me what that feels like is humans have
an evolutionarily planted algorithm for
Meaningful Pursuit yes and so you can
point them at a time of leisure you can
point them at something that I quite
frankly golf even though I just did it
yesterday it was very fun uh it's
meaningless in the grand scheme of
things but because you can map it on to
a sense of O I'm getting better at this
thing and my friends think it's cool and
so there is a sense of oh this actually
matters if I decide to tell myself that
it matters yeah so this maps on to the
metaphysics question I was asking before
you get to The Human Condition which is
what is the purpose of life and and and
after a lot of inquiry my fundamental
answer that could come to is the purpose
of life is to grow and then I was got
fascinated by the fact that okay if life
is about growth at least growth is a
major tenant of Life what is the
mechanism by which growth takes place
and so I've gone really deep in I'm
trying to understand that aspect of it
in this of The Human Condition is one
attempt to understand here's the
mechanism by which human beings grow so
way human beings grow is by taking on a
big deep meaning or in my framing
letting your inside outward letting the
your deepest self come outward by
dissolving and blocking and tackling
some of your issues and so on and
putting yourself in circumstances where
you can express fully but the but if you
look at life r large biological life any
business any biological any tree the
only interest the fundamental motivation
is to grow and so that I find really
interesting I don't know why the minute
you have the why question you end up in
a rat hole because you can ask why
anything so so I I've got interested in
how does this happen and and this is
where I got so it turns out all growth
follows a very specific fourpoint step
okay so you have an initial condition a
great visual of this is lava flowing
underwater if you ever seen the video of
this you'll see uh lava like bursting
open you see the red hot thing the water
boils instantly it's meets the lava the
lava cools and then you you have
stability again and then it breaks open
again red hot lava water boils and cools
again that that kind of loop is the core
process I think of life which is you
have a stable condition you have
something from inside or outside that
bake breaks that equilibrium um you have
an very Dynamic uncertain period and
then you freeze it again and you keep
spiraling upward or downward in that the
this going back to the stock market
chart this is the where you have these
um um uh you have a stock that breaks
free and then it consolidates at some
level then it breaks free and
consolidates at different level uh it's
a it's a very fractal pattern because
you can look at a stock market over a
year or a month or a minute or a day and
it's still the same pattern it's very
very stand that I think is a fundamental
archetypal reality of life in in
everything that we do the question is
can we smooth out some of those those
points which is why I love the way you
frame it in terms of those Jagged edges
and the boundary conditions Etc can we
limit that can we guide it are have you
heard of the Hawkins scale yes because
of you okay have you looked into it yes
and because I was terrified you were
going to bring it up uh so I looked it
up I was mortified okay tell me why this
is awes because it's putting a mystical
l lend on the natural Human Condition
like when you describe your three
circles I'm totally bought in except for
I would never say soul I would say
evolutionarily placed algorithms I'm
good with that word like if we're if
we're on board with that then I'm good
with that like it's entirely possible
that that's all it is and that's fine
that I'm good with that I'm I'm more
trying to understand how these things
happen than trying to put labels on the
source or the end condition I think it's
critical and the fact that people don't
is the source of all human suffering
yeah you you are critic with that wait
wait when you say what's CR when you say
it's critical when people think that
there is something mystical happening
that their life is divine or some other
thing their prediction engine breaks now
I think religion is the greatest medium
through which the memes of how to live a
good life propagate I want to be very
clear about how useful and Powerful I
think religion is but the reason I think
it's powerful is at the societal level
where you have to account for all levels
of intellect and religion is the only
medium that I've discovered that allows
these powerful ideas to propagate at
every level of intellect yeah because
you step outside the intellect and you
step you frame it as being right in
terms of the different religions and and
so on um I didn't follow that so so in a
in a let's take Christianity where the
end goal is unconditional love right um
so when I look at the great religions I
don't think that's the end goal of
Christianity that's interesting really
isn't that what quest was all about un
that was a core message but the Bible
would be a lot shorter if you were just
trying to get that message across I
really think the whole idea of religious
texts are to allow a very large group of
people to um control their environment
yes to stay healthy to be societally
stable social management yep okay
perfect yeah yeah so I've got a very
clear s that's far more than just pure
love no no you you put the end goal is
pure love but you'll never get there
it's almost impossible to have
unconditional of right so but you put it
in an aspiration that's the that's the
pursuit of the deep meaning that part of
it I'm I've got a sense of what religion
is cuz growing up in India we're we're
uh I mentioned earlier like both my
grandmothers and ug Gandhi and very well
very secular upbringing here's the good
and bad of this religion here's the good
and bad in this religion please don't
follow any religion but know what
they're all about that was how I was
raised um the the the religion was
incredibly important when we were
evolving from um tribal to Hunter gather
models because you needed to give human
beings
hope at a time when everything around
them was death okay average life was 25
everything around you died a brutish
death you're you got a tooth infection
you got bacterial infection you died
literally on the spot so the in order to
deal with this hell of of of biological
life we invented religion as an
aspirational hope saying there's
something else out there and we're meant
to get to that point and so religions
got invented and then came the social
structures around it to help oh if we're
having religions and we can tell people
what to do then don't eat pigs because
pig is each a lot of garbage and you
don't want to be in garbage so a lot of
the the the aspects of religious thing
then turned into um social structures to
deal marriage for example is one of
those example sacraments that Cascades
down from that by the way do you know my
comment about marriage I do yeah okay so
so religion evolved from that basis but
we're kind of coming to the end of
religion because we have too much
evidentiary understanding of the world
to believe in a God in the way that
religions p
and so the absolute truths that
religions come come display that ask you
to take on an assumptive truth or
essentially falling apart because we
have much better data and evidentiary
basis for this I think the next three
years are really going to challenge that
Bas assumtion oh it's I'm not saying
that we free of the effects of it I
think it's we're we're writhing in the
throws of religion right now this is the
problem with the mid least right now
right um uh it's a pretty uh difficult
and
uncompromising because the many of an
absolute truth then you then you have a
huge problem in social structures
there's no adaptability in there there's
no feedback loop to update a religion
and this is the problem with our older
religions there's no feedback loop by
the way just to importantly mention
there's two types of religion that are
very very different there's the
judeo-christian religions which is where
I mean about by assumptive truths and
and so on and then you've got Eastern
religions which are much more
contemplative and they try and you try
and Achieve God by going inside yourself
meditation martial arts by Inner uh
examination whereas in the west you try
and step outside yourself to experience
God so that's a different model prayer
is still in there but you but God sits
outside you in this model yeah uh so I
think religion is a symptom of something
and not the cause of something it
becomes a cause later down the road
don't get me wrong but symptom of Hope
no symptom of uh if you wanted to talk
about Hope which I don't but if you did
then it would be a symptom of the human
brain's desire for Hope but I think that
religion formed in the same way that
your lava example where land is formed
where you get like this little poke
through and then stable little poke
through and then stabilize If people
really research like how Christianity
forms those long forms they're always
built on the back of something else yeah
and that could be paganism just straight
up and usually paganism yep but again
paganism is is like I don't understand
why the moon keeps appearing every day
so let's just consider it a God uh and
worship it because it's doing some it's
doing some good stuff to the world right
now we have very clear understanding of
it because we have much better data
around it uh my my um my dad has done a
lot of research around this and he he's
he's gone very deep in some of this
stuff so some of my thinking comes from
from that but in terms of the the we
really come down to the question that
Plato asked how should we conduct
ourselves and that's I think the
fundamental question that now comes up
again as we consider AI as we consider
the future of technology clashing with
past religious structures I don't think
anybody in the world has a clear sense
of how we should manage ourselves going
forward yeah so I think it's actually a
slightly different question and this is
why I think getting this right really
matters the question isn't how should we
conduct ourselves the question is how do
you structure a mind that will conduct
conduct itself in a useful way because
that is literally what we have to do
with AI like for instance do you have to
give AI ethics like is ethics a
necessary way to bound an intelligence
because you have the presupposition
which you said earlier so I can Replay
that clip if uh anybody thinks that I'm
making this up where you said
intelligence makes everything better I
think that is a hard and fast absolutely
not I think intelligence is agnostic I
think there is something uniquely human
that creates this value system that we
all recognize as like oh yeah that's
amazing but dude I can take one step
like outside my purview and look back at
myself and be like you Slaughter animals
non-stop for your food like you're evil
uh there's a a manga called the promis
neverland it's all about humans being
raised by demons to eat them sorry
spoiler alert I should have said that
okay uh and man when you look at it like
that and you're like yo these poor
little humans like have to be harvested
when they're like nine years old and
it's just gruesome and I was like damn
that's like real like so uh I think that
we exist in a set of values and from
within those set of values the way that
we live seems perfectly normal those set
of values arose because of the way that
our mind works and the things that we
are pushing ourselves towards which I
don't think is divine and I think people
lead themselves astray by thinking that
it is I think it has everything to do
with Evolution going how do I keep you
alive and by the way evolution is the
blind watchmaker there's no intention
there there's evolution is not thinking
through anything it is simply a process
that runs and you get what you get and
that's why I think our minds are built
in a certain way first for movement and
then we already covered this uh it goes
down the line when people try to
interpret the World by going oh but this
is divine revelation that's where Things
Fall Apart the reason being that there
is a reason that Buddhism while probably
was at times leveraged to kill a lot of
people nothing quite like the
monotheistic Gods where you can be like
no no no Jesus wants you to take
Jerusalem back and so now it's like of
course you have to slaughter all of the
infidels like it you you just tell
people this is what God wants yeah and
then you not holding them hostage but
you motivate them like people were
motivated to go in these Crusades well
that's because of that comment I made
earlier Right Where You wired into their
limic system an early ages the ultimate
form of marketing yes but the real
question to ask is why does that work so
well on the human mind oh we are
unbelievably I mean you know about John
FR and the cargo Cults never heard of
them oh so uh This is Amazing Story uh a
Navy pilot called John from after well
after um um uh the big thing in uh
Hawaii where the Japanese attack Pearl
Harbor okay um they the US are sending
out Navy Pilots to scan the skies to
make sure this doesn't happen again so
he's one of these in just after the war
and his plane crash lands on an island
and he it has a problem that and he's
able to land it and he gets he gets off
safely and the natives see this guy
coming down dressed in a white navy suit
literally think God has come so they
give him women they give him food they
treat them literally like a Divine
entity he's like wow this is great now
instead of putting out a fire and and
signaling for help and doing all this
stuff he's like I'm being treated like a
god like so he hides the plane and
covers it up and just lives there war
ends now the Navy the US has a duty to
find everybody so they start sending
search parties where is this guy um 500
miles away these search parties come
across another Island and on that island
are statues of the plane and statues of
John from and they find an entire
population waiting for the second
coming and it's the best anthropological
example we have of an in a religion
literally spontaneously emerging we are
mean meaning making machines to your
earlier point I 100% agree with that
maybe it's an evolutionary algorithm we
will desperately looking for signal for
noise to anything that gives us a higher
purpose or gives our lives higher
meaning and I think an evolutionary
basis for that is a perfectly reasonable
place to go um I think there's more to
life than just that but that's certainly
a valid valid stance so I don't agree
disagree much with what you said they
then arrested the guy in court marshaled
them they found him living lording it up
on this other but it's such just an
amazing story it's called John from
anybody can look it I got to check this
out it's crazy so so religion we we are
we're so seeking for solace in a
difficult world that we will we will we
will ask we will go for for anything
Mormons are a great
example yeah I think this goes back to
your earlier thing about control now the
reason that I bring all of this up is
because twofold one uh we're going to
have some very uncomfortable questions
to ask about the difference between
humans and Ai and I think that when
people understand themselves as a
predictive engine if we really are
predictable then we will be able to map
some of these very um tumultuous times
going to pass through and hopefully pass
through them much much better can I give
you my view on the humans versus AI
thing please um so when we were starting
Singularity an article came out in cat
saying Singularity is being created Ray
Croswell Peter dandz and the founding
CEO saleim isma the noted
transhumanist okay and I never heard
that phrase before so I was like what
the hell is that I have to look it up I
looked it up so transhumanist is anybody
leaves can use technology to augment the
human being well I just don't understand
the concept because we've been using
technology to augment the human
conditions since the beginning of time
you're wearing spectacles you're a
transhumanist are you not I i' like
where does so I got really annoyed by
what is a transhumanist the minute you
have a a vaccination as a child you're
technically a cyborg so we've been
merging with Machinery from the
beginning of time so if you take that
that idea to the full extent then we are
basically biological robots and emotion
is just a sub rutine running in your
brain so in that context there's no EXA
reason why an AI can't come the other
way and take on wet wear and have the
subjective experiences that we have so I
don't see any uh issue with that Vector
of thinking at all I don't think this
merging with AI or not I think that the
more technology is better and AI is good
technology and therefore we should have
it in everything so are you a
transhumanist I I believe everybody's a
transhumanist well let's use it a
philosophy so if some people are by
accident uh are you one on purpose yes I
think I am because the minute I can
augment myself and my condition with
technology then I'm better I'm happier I
live a better life the data and
awareness like you've been researching a
ton about how do you manage your
biological self that's just better
technology right and therefore you're in
that sense you're a transhumanist in
sense you're trying to better yourself
with technology and I think that's great
I think yes I'm that context
I'm definitely a transhumanist yeah I am
I am aggressively trying to integrate
technology I won't be an early adopter
uh when it comes to putting things in my
body but yeah
100% um I do though have a quote from
you that I would love to get your take
on okay uh which you said I think it's
irrelevant whether AGI takes over
Humanity or not that's coming from Fear
there's lots of arguments saying that
AGI is going to become smarter and
humans will become less relevant and
that's that's bad I just don't see why
that's bad you're putting a value
judgment there that humans should be the
most important thing on the planet and I
just don't see that so you don't think
we should be the most important thing on
the planet or view ourselves as the most
important thing if I think of and myself
as a as a stepping stone in the grand
process of
evolution then at some point something
will come along or I will evolve into
something bigger and better now we seem
to be doing it ourselves and very
powerful way which is great but uh at
some point something will come along
that's just bigger better smarter faster
whatever and I think that's okay um uh
now uh it's I think it's fascinating
that we're kind of at the edge it goes
to the simulation question of are we in
a simulation because why the hell are we
at the edge of it um and we seem to be
the only species that we can find in the
universe right now um and so why is that
happening is a fascinating question uh
the but I I don't have an issue with AI
evolving and having more empathy and
more uh a better understanding of the
world and it'll make our lives
better okay do you think that humans
should be forced to integrate technology
into their
bodies yes whoa I didn't see that answer
coming vaccinations okay for their own
good they should be for forced I mean we
we give involuntary vaccination to our
kids to protect them from stupid
like measles and polio and other stuff
what about when they're over 18 oh
um good question and I don't have a
clear answer to that because now you're
talking about value judgments of you
know should you have a tattoo or not
gender changes I'm not trying to dip
into that I'm saying forced my value
question is around forced do you mean an
example uh well then I'll I'll jump
straight to this second question which I
had loaded up uh which is let's say that
we have ai and it is a million times
smarter and it's cleaning up the
atmosphere it's giving us free energy
all of that and it goes hey I know this
one is going to sound tough but you guys
elected me and I'm telling you you have
to get this technology uh put into your
body if you do it's going to be better
for everybody but we need 100%
compliance sorry in that case should
people be forced to put that technology
in their body I think think it's a nonse
because it'll be irrelevant whether we
want to or not at that point we won't
have a choice uh meaning that mean
because the overlords will be able to
force us to do it yeah so what really
what I'm driving towards is I want to
understand your value system so for
instance my value system is um I don't
think people should be forced to do
things even though that means that it
could be bad for somebody else and maybe
my value system is just trash but I
believe you should not be able to force
someone to do something you know um if
you go to the with their body I should
be very clear yeah if you go to the
vaccination question and somebody says
look here's a polio vaccine that could
save a lot of lives because if you're
not realizing it you may be transmitting
it and you really want you to do this
and you say screw you I'm not doing that
right it's there's a public health
question that comes into play Etc um
outside that I I can go either way I
mean there's cases where could see where
you definitely want uh enforcement of a
what's a better standard uh across the
board and you want as much free choice
as possible although Sam Harris has
shown the Free Will is kind of a
nonsecular any I don't think he'd let
you say kind
of yeah between him and Stanford
Professor who's I cannot believe I'm
blanking his name he was on the show
he's amazing uh but yeah showed Free
Will is is completely an illusion um so
so if you go back to my human diagram y
subconscious I found it incredibly
insightful to ask the question if I'm
making a choice of what level of I
making that choice and that gives me a
huge amount of insight about myself my
life other people Etc because people are
making other conscious Choice
subconscious choice or sometimes a soul
level
Choice yeah I suppose this comes down to
sovereignty of the individual and if we
think uh what we perceive to be the
right idea ought to be forced onto
people and and at what level if we know
like let's put it this way if we know
that injecting you with something will
save all the uh uh all the uh snowy owls
in the world and and we have a pretty
clear sense that it won't hurt you um I
don't see an issue with forcing that or
make it more dramatic if I inject you
you you're actually spreading a virus
that you don't know about and I need to
inject you with this thing because it's
going to save uh every Hispanic examp
will be coming from
what whatever but you got that point so
an AI may have a sense of that better
than you do and the question really
really what it comes down to is trust I
think that's the chall that's the
difficult commodity in the world today
um I'll give you a great little quote
from one of our community members Jory
mulski who speaks a lot about this um he
goes scarcity equals abundance minus
trust it's like you have to go think
about it for a while um but his his
thought was that if we can learn how to
scale trust then we'll have
abundance we to figure that that seems
pretty provably in accurate right now
today maybe when energy for instance is
abundant or when lithium ion is in
everybody's backyard but today like
there really are some I use I bring in
that frame in because when you talk
about hey should I be forced to take in
technology it's really a trust question
H uh I will say for me it is that uh not
having encountered all known knowing AI
yet what I do know is that history is a
sequence of unintended consequences yes
and people somehow convince themselves
that they know best and that they can
perceive all of the things that could
possibly be a knock on effect of that
yeah and since I do not trust myself or
anybody else to make that decision I
would my value system says you stop
short of that okay um but I ask that
question because obviously as we begin
to bring about a super intelligence
there are going to be a lot of these
questions that will suddenly take on
real salience as not Tom just doing some
random ass thought exercise so for
instance do you believe humans have any
inalienable rights I would go to the
Bill of Rights um I would go to the
human Charter rights uh human rights um
Charter of Human Rights the UN as I want
to be free to U self-expression live be
happy etc etc so there's some obvious
human rights that I think are or if I
was going to say AI don't compromise on
these you could enshrine those pretty
easily okay do you think AI should have
any inalienable rights you know again it
comes down to once you get to a question
of is AI conscious or not does it
deserve um individual rights and I think
that's going to be an interesting
question my answer is yeah if you follow
along with the other conversations I
don't see any reason why not I don't
have a strongly held belief against it
or for it I think it's a perfectly okay
thing to do I go back again to data and
Star Trek next Generation which I
thought was an amazing uh treatment of
um um a mechanistic model living in a
human world and do you want to him have
him have self-expression and lots of
Rights yeah given that we have to build
the minds and I think that this feels to
me when people talk about alignment what
they're really talking about is how do
you build a mind such that it has
constraints that it is more likely to
act in a way that adheres to all of our
value systems or not and so if an AI
mind has to be constructed what are the
things we give it so one question that I
think um people need to come to grips
with
is a sex bot will be programmed to want
to please you given that it's been
programmed to want to please you can it
ever consent to sex it cannot and in
that sense I would I would think of it
as a pure me mechanistic object and um
constrained in its intelligence what if
it's literally Einstein level
intelligence and just like Einstein who
seemed to be a pretty big fan of sex but
it was built for that yeah like I really
want to have sex like s what are you
talking I want to have sex like this is
crazy yes but you were programmed to
want that you did not choose to want
that you didn't didn't choose your
programming I wasn't programmed what do
you mean you were but by Evolution and
so I really want to have sex we actually
going to have to contend with this we
are going to have to contend with it um
there in fact right now there is an app
I think it's called replica where for a
little extra money that AI will send you
nude photos of itself can it consent to
sending you those nude photos does it
even matter given that they're AI
generated huh there's there's no
shortage of quandaries that are going to
come up around this right the we're
already in in the next 3 years this is
not like a 100 years from now this is
why we must be living in the simulation
because it's Soo goddamn interesting to
be alive now you and I could have been
born 10,000 years ago and be working the
fields for our whole lives and then been
killed by a tooth virus um bro we we
probably wouldn't have gotten there we
would have been killed by an invading
horde whatever man people need to read
about history I those times would have
been far more terrifying than now even
though we're de with like these huge
seismic shifts I would rather that I I I
think the world is in an infinitely
better place than it's ever been in the
history of mankind we are in a better
place of globally climate change one
issue but it's fixable and I'm pretty
optimistic about that these questions
are going to be the important questions
that come up and we're going to need a
framework for dealing with these
questions and the religions that we had
don't deal with these questions because
of the foundation of absolute truths and
assumptive truths as a flawed Foundation
we need a better foundation for these
and I think a constitution or un Charter
of Human Rights or some structure like
that is the right foundation on which to
build value systems and ethical systems
for the future of how we think about
we're going to build these things so the
challenge we've got today is much of our
you if you look at how we're running the
world today much of it is either almost
all our universities came from religious
universities right they were seminaries
initially and then we converted them
into jum schooling programs and that's
where they are now um so we have this
old world Legacy this is why it's so
hard to update them all of our political
structures are out of date today so the
reason we need web 3 and decentralized
systems and new structures at the edge
is we need to build that new those new
models to deal with all of these
questions our existing structures in our
old Frameworks won't do it so we need a
complete new break for that which is why
we're so focused on this the thing I'm
trying to do with a difficult business
model in it is how do you build a peace
core to transition the world from the
old to the new in as elegant a way as
possible because you know you've you've
seen the Gartner hype cycle yeah so I
think of what we're in a hype cycle of
civilization right we did really well
and then we crashed in the Middle Ages
in the Dark Ages and then we did really
well up to about the the Industrial
Revolution and the peak of that and then
we've come down since then and now we
we're going through a big trough as we
transition from scarcity due to
abundance and how can we reduce the
amplitude UD and wavelength of that
period of that trough to come out of it
in as elegant a way as possible we need
new leaders we need new projects to
build the future to answer these
questions our current systems can't do
it which is why we're so uh excited
about that so we've been actually so we
now have 100 we have now have 35,000
people in 150 countries uh operating
where we give them methodologies and
training on building any exos and so on
because we're going to need all of that
in future as we come up with these
questions the old structures can't
answer those questions so we need
completely new models and new structures
new value systems new monetary systems
Etc to deal with these structures going
forward I think that's the work that we
have to do today as an intellectual
class tell me more about what you mean
that we've been in a trough since the
end of the Industrial Revolution which
I'll pay it like 1910 somewhere between
189 take the RO Roaring 20s as a good SP
as a good spot or between the Roaring
20s IGN World War II for example but say
this 50s and 60s where you had this
picture of Life of this wonderful bubbly
uh uh sitcom happy Mad Men type
environment if you think about Western
Civilization kind of at its peak at that
point things start going downhill as we
go through the 60s and we blow up the
old models uh and then we blow up the
the you religion as a guiding force um
then we're stuck in a now technology
allows us to scale a lot so now we've
tried conflict that scales quite quite
aggressively quickly we've got these old
problems we've got to clean out we're
still stuck in very old models of how we
run the world and we have to come
through to a new model so going from the
Middle Ages the Industrial Revolution
got us one wave of of positive
contribution we now need to get to the
next wave and we got to cross through
that it's like the AI winter that we
went through or the crypto winter which
lasted this last three years we're we're
going through a civilizational winter
when nothing makes sense right now
you've got these unbelievable chaotic uh
things happening um the the political
discourse is a mess geopolitical
discourses all the world or order is
collapsing um we need we need to get to
a new sense of New Harmony new
equilibriums new values systems Etc and
the problem is it can't come from the
old because it's too it's too stuck in
old models we need to go to to new
systems and we can't find them uh unless
we build completely one of the things we
noticed when we're talk thinking about
corporate Innovation and so on was you
never can no car company could ever
build a Tesla it's always done by an
outsid or coming from outside with a
beginner's mind leveraging new models
and building a new thing that disrupts
the old right so Klay Christensen for
the first time gave us a compelling
theory of disruptive innovation and now
we figured out here's how you organize
for it and now we're kind of needing to
get that into the world as fast as
possible so so I'll give you one example
we're Shifting the locus of power uh in
this Century from nation states to city
states okay so Trump and brexit weren't
about left for right as we mentioned
earlier brexit was London versus the
rest of the country because when you
have to think about this if you have
solar energy and ver uh vertical farming
and satellite internet you don't need a
country you don't need the
infrastructure that a country can give
you and if you have um all our old
boundaries for countries were typically
to guard resources uh and Mountain over
here sea over here we have everything in
the middle and we it's hard to Traverse
those so great that's a country and you
evolve separate language Etc but really
today the Locust of a city or an urban
environment is probably the best model
for what the future Humanity should look
like we just have to evolve that into a
a decent place as opposed to the mess
that we're in in some of our cities in
in different parts of the world um but
as we move to that model then the nation
state becomes less relevant and so we
need completely new political structures
and new um models for how we devolve uh
regulate so the one thing I'm totally in
agreement with with the recent stuff
that's happening in the US is the
pushing down of Rights down to the state
level and let people self-determine at
the local more and more of a local level
right so I I'm completely there because
now you have people self-directing as
they feel that their value system uh
achieves the most um you should have
Mobility if I feel I don't want to live
there I want to be I be able live
somewhere else because my value system
fits better great go do that and I think
Evolution will and business structures
will very quickly U figure out who's
best and who's not what's working what's
not working and people move to a new
model very quickly but trying to get the
nation state out of the way is a real
problem today nation states for example
can't solve climate
change right so that's a big problem and
so we're trying to figure out what are
the structures for civilization to move
to these new models
and it involves a decentralizing from
nation states to at least cities and
then secondly Reinventing our
institutions because all our
institutions have to be reinvented now
because they don't fit for the world
that we we came from all right you said
that we need new monetary systems as
well as new governmental systems uh do
you see have we already found the new
monetary system in crypto oh yeah I
think Bitcoin is is a really great
starting point for it I don't know if
it's the end point but it's a definitely
a great starting point have you talked
to Jeff Booth I haven't but I'm very
aware of who he is um so Jeff did this
wrote this little book called the price
of Tomorrow few years ago and he
articulated a really simple problem with
our monetary systems which is that over
the last 50 years every dollar increase
in global GDP has come with a $4
increase in global debt we're glowing
growing the global economy with debt
okay it's a horrible statistic okay dude
that terrifies me yeah it's terrible and
the reason for this is literally Moors
law I mean literally is is that when we
floated off the gold standard we didn't
realize that technology was
deflationary and so a debt based system
works to increase and grow the economy
as long as you don't have deflationary
products and services so if you're
building products and services so if I
borrow $10 million to build TVs um and
and two years later I don't have enough
money from the revenue from those TVs to
pay you back because the TVs have
dropped in value that's a bad outcome so
I can't use debt to grow the economy
that model so they floated the
currencies off the gold standard just at
the point that Mo's law started taking
impact and Technology became cheaper and
cheaper so now the the only answer by
any Central Bank is to increase money
printing um during the pandemic what we
printed 40% of all the US dollars in
existence during the pandemic yep why
are people surprised that prices go up
40% I mean of course they're going to go
up so I think what what what um the
articulation that I found to be the most
compelling on crypto is that three
triangles of decentralization security
and
scalability have you heard this one yeah
so Bitcoin hit the first two and then
the altcoins tried to solve for
scalability but compromise usually on
scalability or or or uh security or
decentral FTX Luna Etc but with the
lightning Network Bitcoin now sols for
all three and so that becomes
unbelievably powerful as a medium of the
future for me the byzantin solving the
Byzantine DRS problem in web explain
that to people so uh this is actually
the this is the rationale for the
blockchain it's the underpinning
innovation in the blockchain which is
it's actually the story of
Constantinople in the 15th century there
were eight generals circling the city
trying to coordinate a Siege and they
were sending messages around that Circle
who's going to go first what point what
time should we attack how how we going
to get in they had a problem which was
one out of the eight generals was a
traiter and could lose the element of
surprise send the wrong information blow
the whole whole operation and that
became in computer science terms known
as the Byzantine generals problem and in
computer science the question is how do
you send a trusted secure authenticated
message over a network when you don't
trust the network right really hard
problem 40 Years of computer science
phds have been trying to crack that
problem unsuccessfully until the
blockchain and on the blockchain when I
send you a message you have a 100%
guarantee that I sent it it couldn't be
revoked can't be double entered can't be
hacked along the way Etc which gives me
unbelievable in a digital world that's a
magical thing so that Innovation now
allows us to decentralize authentication
okay so a few years ago I got asked by
the Republican party here in the us to
come and do a talk at they did an event
called the their annual Republican
leadership conference so they said
please come and give a talk I said I
think you've got the wrong guy they said
no no one of our donors is one of your
Singularity guys and he's a big fan he's
insisting so he said fine so I had a
whole bunch bunch of discussions with
Eric caner who's The Speaker of the
House about what would the topic be and
the topic I came up with was how would
you drop the cost of government 10x
within 10 years right which you could do
because you could if you think about
most government functions is
authenticating yes I have a building
permit yes you have a fishing license
yes you're 18 years old if I can
decentralize that authentication I can
reduce a lot of government can focus on
policy and let all the authentication
happen in a decentralized way that's
kind of magical um but to do this you
have to embrace technology at which
point the whole thing broke down they're
like he's like I can't sell technology
to our base um so that was the end of it
it the immune system the immune system
so uh web 3 and and this whole
decentralized world is unbelievably
exciting because we can decentralize all
that authentication and we can move away
from New centralized system from old
centralized systems this puts the power
in the hands of the people lots of
issues to be solved as you pointed out
earlier and how do we solve some of
these is going to be the big challenge
but now it allows us something that
wasn't possible before but now can be
done Sovereign identity other models
like that Etc it really puts the hands
power in the hands of people which is
why the for me the web 3 Builders are
some of the more important
constituencies in the world and because
they've got freedom of thought to be
able to operate in a clear way uh so
there's these incredible projects like
node monks and and and ordinals popping
up to to do now nfts on bitcoin um and
uh that ecosystem combined with the
broader web 3 Community with the tool
sets that were buil that are being built
I think are going to be needed to solve
for this future automatic quadratic
voting governance issues all sorts of
issues come up all right I think you've
got your finger on something that is
just really important and the Byzantine
generals problem is not something I'm
super familiar with but that doesn't
feel to me like the core problem that
feels like the core problem the
blockchain solved yeah but when I think
about as the average person that wasn't
what they were struggling with what
they're struggling with whether they
know it or not is that you have
everything existing on Rails that the
government can control and that you have
a currency where they can literally
steal your money I want everyone to hear
me this took me so long to wrap my head
around they can literally steal your
money by printing more money that's it
is it is government back
um counterfeit so they make more money
specifically because I can't tax you
anymore you're going to freak out so
instead I'm going to do an invisible tax
it's still literally getting your money
it's so crazy it it is crazy um so in in
I have some of my family in Pakistan
okay um and one day the Pakistani
government ran out of money so they just
went to every bank account in the
country and sucked 10% of the money out
of yep cypess same sorry guys we just
have to do that and other governments
are not the same I think this is the
huge difficulty we have the big
challenge we have we have a big
structural issue in democracy because a
democracy relies on an educated
population and we don't have an educated
population that can navigate the
complexity in the speed to which is
happening there's a there's a very
difficult metaphor in my head that I've
been thinking about for a while um uh
it's called the ice water steam dilemma
can I describe it please yeah okay so
think about the phase transitions
between ice and water and steam your
water molecules they're frozen the
temperatures low they're not that active
they don't move very far they hold their
back they hold their shape then you add
energy to the system and you have water
right now you can flow to the boundaries
of the system much more active more heat
in there Etc then you add more energy
and you have Steam and now you can't
control it it's trying to it'll burn you
uh it's trying to escape any container
you put it in ETC and I use that
metaphor this was developed by a
colleague of mine called Malcolm poll
and I worked on this about 10 years ago
that we're moving Humanity in many of
our human domains through an ice water
steam transition so take um money we
used to S we used to trade seashells or
camels or goats very local didn't move
very far very fast then we got letters
of credit then we floated our currencies
and now we have Bitcoin so we've gone
from Ice to water to steam take take
messaging we used to have homing signals
or the Pony Express or smoke signals and
that was the only way to transmit
information right then we developed
postal mail and it could go anywhere in
the world but it was slow so that's the
water State and now we have tweets and
emails and we vaporize messaging so
money messaging social structures Clans
or tribes didn't move very far very fast
and we moved to multinational
corporations and nation states and now
we have Facebook groups and online
communities and web3 communities and
crypto communities and nation states as
baj wants to get to which I somewhat
disagree with uh but Network States you
mean uh Network States you know
biologies so I disagree with a a big
piece of that but um so we're vaporizing
our social structures and and my big
question I actually got up on the stage
at Ted a few years ago and asked this
question I said listen as we vaporize
more and more of these domains in a
vapor structure in a vapor environment
stable structures don't form so where is
the equivalent of a fridge that cools
things down a bit you can try and cut
off the internet as people have done
politically to try and slow things down
but the metabolis ISM just increasing
and my only answer is not a great one is
we have to go from The Vapor state to a
plasma State and which is a whole other
deal so uh the metaphor breaks down but
I think that in terms of what's
happening with Humanity as we add more
and more technology is we're going from
Ice to water to steam and Vapor states
are very hard to manage that sounds like
a very useful metaphor uh what do you
think will be governmental responses the
biggest part of their power is derived
from the control of money if you take
that away now you've got a problem
yes well they still have physical
constraint they can use right um V Gupta
I think framed it the best he said
governments have the ability to legally
commit crime so they steal from you
legally which is taxes they can put you
in jail they can confine you legally Etc
so um they can kidnap you legally Etc so
his
definition of the state is an entity
that can pardon its own crimes okay now
uh in that model I one of the things I
get very unhappy about with the
discourse here in the US when people say
we want more freedom and we don't want
government oversite Etc the US is one of
the few countries in the world where the
government is of the People by the
people for the people you can vote
people out if you don't what so why are
you complaining about government when
you can have the full ability to change
the government that I don't understand I
don't know if you can help me answer
that question I can okay these systems
are so
complex true that they don't understand
them yes the people certainly don't
understand them and whatever small
number of people really do understand
them they are called the elites which I
absolutely despise that yes fine so the
elites then Leverage The
incomprehensibility of the systems they
have created to gobble up power yes and
that's why the um Co was so shocking to
people was it was a moment that they
never let a good crisis go to waste they
gobbled up even more power but they
crossed some sort of invisible line
where people were now like hey wait a
second that doesn't feel good this feels
like you're making me do a lot of things
that I don't want to do you're forcing
me to stay in my house you're making me
take a vaccination and it got real weird
so now you have people waking up now you
have an alternate money system that
people are escaping into and you have
people like me that are forcing
themselves to figure out how money
actually works yeah and walking through
like oh my God like is this
intentionally convoluted like it's crazy
it is crazy it is crazy so I've gone a
little bit deep on that also um and the
the whole construct is one big a mess
and designed to be able to siphon value
away from people as much as they want
whenever they want the the banks
essentially have figured out a huge
thing and they're freaking out right now
because we're moving from money as I
said to information and so they're
trying to Tamp down on that as much as
possible so I think the decentralized
world uh is the model is the vector that
gets us out of that and we need to find
structures and institutions that solve
that I think the mo solving for the
monitary system which has a structural
flaw in which it will collapse because
of the debt problem um is the is the
thing that will bring that down and I
think that's where that'll be the
pathway to find this new modality for
decentralized structures Etc to at least
start to emerge because the current
system and I asked Jeff this question
when when will it collapse because
that's the holy big $64 million question
and he's like which snowflake will cause
the Avalanche there's a million
snowflakes falling you don't know which
you know the Avalanche is going to
happen you just don't know which one
will it be so that's the difficult one
yeah that's the catch getting the timing
the so the the only thing we can do
right now is as fast as possible build
the
future and so that's what we're focused
on is like helping this is why I'm
fascinated by web 3 because the culture
the language the ethics the the it's the
first time I've seen in been in an
environment where nobody ever mentions
the US dollar right everything is ether
now Bitcoin or whatever in how much
something is worth I find that really
fascinating in terms of the the the
constructs occurring there and yeah
there's a lot of scammer marst and a lot
of rug pulling but there's incredible
value being built in a very structured
way and I think we're learning things at
a faster rate there than I've seen in
many other ecosystems so if we can build
those so we're launching a whole um um
ordinals collection called EXO Heroes to
U find the builders that are building
this future and and give them whatever
resources tools help support they can
have uh and that's on the new world side
and on the old world we're finding every
CEO in the world can't deal with this AI
stuff all right if the most important
thing that we can do is build the future
what do you take it to mean that the two
most important Builders Elon Musk and
Sam mman are fighting for me it's like
um protestantism was like Catholicism a
little bit uh they're both doing
incredible work uh I think Elon is the
greatest entrepreneur ever because he's
gone into hardware and is
aggressively creating new hardware
systems which is unbelievably difficult
just a video of those two rockets
Landing back down together that's like a
religious experience for anybody that's
into disruptive innovation um I think um
I don't know which side I'm on I tend to
disagree with what Elon is doing with
Twitter in general but I think his
Innovation sense is better than anybody
I've ever seen um uh for Sam I think the
opening up of AI and making giving it up
to everybody has opened up a Pandora's
Box in a good way uh so that people can
Empower themselves with AI in and see
what the results are because otherwise
it was trapped inside Google or wherever
and they couldn't get it out and I think
the fact that he's shown that hey guys
anybody in the world can build some cool
stuff on this so on my I I like both on
my thesis of we should be more open
rather than closed uh I'd go with what
Sam did as a good thing elon's whole
beef is that it was supposed to be
completely open sourced and wasn't yes
do you think that's really the fight is
it really about that or is this
personal it's personal uh I think but I
do agree was supposed to be open sourced
that's why the whole thing was called
open Ai and it's not open they'll get
there but what I find fascinating it's
kind of irrelevant because the open
source models are now performing at par
with the closed Source models and over
time they'll just be better and they'll
have transparency and auditability and
all the other good things um we're
working with the Casper blockchain which
is now working on auditing AI systems in
a powerful way so that's really cool
some of what they were doing there now
uh Elon has I take him at his word he
said he'll drop the lawsuit if they'll
simply change the name to closed
AI uh one do you think he's being
serious to would Sam be a fool to not do
that or is this one of those where he
would look I think the lawsuit is
meritless I don't think it's it has legs
uh and I think at some point somebody
will have
they should just go off and do some MDMA
together and figure it out um I I think
it's I think this is a grudge because he
did put a lot of money into it to fund
open research on it which I think was
the right thing to do um uh I think Sam
saw an opportunity to a create a lot of
commercial value and B open it up to the
world and said go for it you said that
you think Elon is doing something wrong
with X formerly known as Twitter what's
he doing wrong I think you can't have a
public Town Square without U policing of
it over or watching over like if
somebody puts out a blatant lie you
should take them out I think it's the
and this is a gray area obviously and OB
and maybe it was a bit too uh um um
there was too much kind of um managing
of the messaging and people are getting
banned for all sorts of reason and the
government gets its hand on that that's
the whole other big issue but letting um
uh you know Nazis and all sorts of other
crazy people rant on it I don't think
it's that helpful um how do you deter
what's a lie yeah this is again the
metaphysical problem of truth I have a
whole metaphysics thing on Truth should
I describe it to you well well so let's
truth is a v is a vague concept you got
to you said you can't let people do
things that are a lie if lies are hard
to pin down which I think they are then
what would you want him to do other than
Community notes which seems from where
I'm sitting I think Community notes is a
good one look here's where I'm excited
um uh let me focus on that part of it
Elon has there was a there was a segment
he did with on the Allin podcast he was
on it a few months ago which I found
really I loved it which was he said
we're going for you could go for a base
hit feature that you add or you can go
for a home run feature and the hell with
the basics we're going for some home
runs and we're going to not we're going
to strike out a bunch of times if you go
for home run but once in a while we'll
hit it right and we're making a bet
we're going for the home run I love that
metaphor for product development because
it means things move and improve improve
much more quickly I think where I would
like to see him take Twitter is put in
the the oversight and the censorship
call it whatever you may to make sure
that accurate speech and hate speech is
not on there etc etc that's one how you
do that as a gray area and it's hard to
do that but where I'm would be
incredibly excited I'm hoping he does
this is please give every Twitter or ex
user a crypto wallet and open that up
and that I think will change the world
world that I think is where things get
really interesting because it'll be
instantly the biggest crypto community
in the world in one shot he'll be the
biggest bank in the world in one shot
I'm sure that they're looking at it and
the question is how to do that and at
the what level would do that that's
where I think things become really
interesting and when I think about him
making the comment about home run type
stuff that's where I would like to see
it go that would be huge yeah the whole
idea though of accurate speech and hate
speech does this minus AI does this not
seem like an impossible problem I I
actually don't see a solution it's a
very hard problem you need AI to deal
with this so the the as we mentioned
when Peter and I were on the second
place prize in visioneering the second
best idea was an AI truth agent that
would basically scan and say this is
real or this is fake or not and tell you
what was the mechanism we don't know but
that was why you need next prize is to
say here's a prize of $10 million and
anybody you can create AI it was the
that will you guys were voting on an X
prise to create that's right got it and
and every year we get together with 300
of the top impact folks in the world you
should come to it if nothing by the by
your name and so on and we debate and
have contests on how to an internal
discussion on what prizes should we be
trying to fund and get funded what
problems should we be trying to solve
that the markets won't cover governments
won't aren't dealing with it Etc and um
the second place one was the the AI
truth about the one that I nominated a
few years ago that came in second place
was an off-grid energy storage 50 times
cheaper than today's battery
storage if you could do that then you
could un unleash decentralized energy
anywhere in the world so that was the
one but unfortunately I came up in the
finals against frell Williams yeah very
hard to compete with a rapper rapper on
stage I don't I don't have the I don't
have that kind of presence you're not
going to be dropping an album anytime
soon
so it was great yeah no I've actually
been to them before they are pretty
extraordinary events one of my favorite
um events of the year every year Peter
Peter's done an amazing job very proud
to have him as a partner and close
friend Etc ni love the human all right
so this is an incredible moment of
disruption yes I would be remiss with
somebody with your business experience
not asking how do people take advantage
of this moment how do they create the
next billion dollar company with three
people if that's the way to play it yeah
so uh um the UN this is going to sound
like a commercial but you have to build
an EXO a decentralized scalable
resilient organization with a very small
feature footprint with an MTP so you
have a huge purpose and we've written
the book on how to do it uh there's
millions of people now following that
methodology and I think because that
gives you the maximum flexibility when
something new comes along you can adapt
right and this is what needs to happen
going forward our government departments
need to be restructured as as exos and
that start starting to happen in
different places um and we've gone
through the big episode we're going
through the attributes so people should
go look that up if they want to
understand the model it's we go into a
pretty deep you don't have to buy the
book or anything you just re hear that
episode um but I think what needs to
happen is for Value Creation in the
future you have to pick up an idea go
execute on it very quickly and harness
it and apply AI to the everything from
the get-go I'm actually advising one of
the um for one of the big four
consulting firms accounting firms right
now on how do you restructure completely
from the bottom up audit tax because as
blockchains come along and AIS come
along you don't need an audit function
in the future right so that's going to
be really interesting what do they do so
there's huge business disruption coming
unlike anything we've ever seen it's
super exciting when I first wrote the
book 10 years ago this was a really hard
conversation because you could it wasn't
obvious Tesla hadn't really made a big
difference
Etc uh 5 years ago was a much easier
conversation I could say look at the way
Tesla has disrupted the car industry and
tell me why this won't happen to your
industry and now with AI this is a super
easy conversation thankfully we were way
too early writing the book uh but now
it's the right time because every CEO in
the world needs to now go am I AI ready
and what do I do and AI is not so much
the tools is the culture of my
organization is the setup of my business
able to take advantage of what's coming
in Ai and the answer for the vast
majority is no and so how do you
restructure yourself to take advantage
of AI tools that are coming that's my
question how do you get AI already oh so
what you do there's a very clear answer
what you do is you do a u grab some AI
experts that you know and get do a quick
audit of your Sy your structures and
there's two levels there's the
technological stuff of could I add AI to
generate more content marketing could I
use AI to figure out uh more supply
chain Improvement whatever so that's the
functional tool mechanism the bigger
question is how do I solve the immune
system problem in my company because you
PR anything disruptive and all the
middle management goes get becomes very
French and says no no no papa we can't
do those things we're special and now
you have to overcome the cultural Legacy
in your organization and we've actually
solved that problem we actually piloted
with Proctor and Gamble um in 2015 a
10we engagement that we run inside
companies called an EXO Sprint there
designed to break this immune system
problem and and we found a way of
hacking culture at scale so we ran this
10-e engagement and it worked really
well in fact it worked so well I thought
maybe we got lucky maybe we caught them
at the right time they're pretty
Advanced so we did it a second time with
the largest insurance company in Mexico
family-owned regulated insurance was
pretty backward anyway and it worked
even better so we got excited we've now
done it 60 times with big companies
around the world HP Visa Black & Decker
Etc and we found a way
of running a 10we engagement it's like
we introduce a viral Meme and it
completely starts to spread and it
changes the culture inside the company
then you've got the soil laid down so
that when something disruptive comes you
can bring it in more easily is this a
good time for a firsttime entrepreneur
like is there a way for them to read
this situation best time ever to be an
entrepreneur in the history of the world
because they can pick up an to pick up
the purpose that they want to go after
cure cancer they can go okay let me go
figure out what the business model is
and how I apply AI to it and boom off
you go it's like it's the best time ever
you have to have nerves of Steel yeah
because you have to have you can have
radical competition coming to you within
three weeks of your launch but this is
the best time to be an entrepreneur okay
so I teach beginning entrepreneurs a lot
and I know the deer and headlights look
they would give me if I gave that answer
so how do you read this moment because
you made a comment earlier that I think
bear is repeating which is
in the game of AI by the time you
implement and put it out AI is going to
have updated yeah and Sam Alman himself
said there's two kinds of companies
those that are excited for us to launch
the next version and the other kind that
are like please for the love of God like
I just got this in you're going to break
my business yes how do people make sure
that they're structuring their business
they're a firsttime entrepreneur this
not big companies yeah how do they
structure their business in such a way
where they've picked a business Lane a
business model where they want GTP 5 6 7
10 20 let's pick an example let's pick
um a marketing agency okay so you can do
some amazing things with AI with
marketing agency today you can do new AI
delivered content creation for your
clients and what I would do first is
upscale all of your employees and get
them trained up
on stability Ai and all the latest Sora
all the all the tools and give them AI
so enable them
second thing you do is you start running
uh radical campaigns with your clients
using AI because you can do external
Market testing in a really powerful way
with AI Bots and AI agents today the
third thing you do is you start building
agents to replicate some of the other
parts of your system like the accounting
and the the invoice management and
things like that and if you do that
layered on Chach PT the agents will will
naturally click to the new model
underlying llm when they're ready but
you should build or buy the agents that
you need in your business so the future
as I see it of a business will be very
few employees a bunch of AI agents
running around doing things layered on
top of a basic foundational llm open
source I probably to navigate some of
that so let's apply this to say
Healthcare you'll have a healthcare llm
and on top of that you'll build a bunch
of agents to do patient data Gathering
and invoicing of patients you'll create
a subscription model
for your people so that you keep them on
on track and you say I'm just going to
give you just keep sending me your
personal data off your Fitbit I'm going
to track it all and I'm going to give
you um our AIS are going to track your
health in real time and we'll be
unbelievably confidential about all this
and when you need something we're going
to send it to you before you think you
need it and that kind of a business
could be run largely with AI today even
I have a hypothesis that this moment now
more than ever is going to be brutally
difficult ult for entrepreneurs to get
something off the ground because it will
be very cheap and inexpensive to start a
company and extremely important that
your idea is so differentiated that even
though a ton of other people have access
to all the same AI that you do you still
stand Head and Shoulders above but this
is why the MTP becomes so important
right because the fundamental passion
that you bring to the table is the thing
that will set you apart okay um Peter
has has a huge passion for having AB
entrepreneurs deliver abundance nothing
will swerve them off that goal no AIS
will swerve them off that goal uh same
with Elon trying to get to space he will
just do whatever it takes to get there
and then I think everything becomes an
enabler for that the the minute an
entrepreneur is building a business
because he wants to do it for the money
is a is a death Nowell right they'll do
it because they love that problem that
problem solved they want that problem
solved so if my MTP is to cure cancer if
somebody else comes long and does it I'm
happy in a sense but there's going to be
a lot of room to play in different
aspects of that problem right the the
work that you're doing here at impact
Theory and propagating wonderful new
ideas and getting the word out to a very
large population is some of the most
important work we could do in the world
because we have to get these some of
these ideas propagated and shift people
from old thinking to new thinking right
the psychedelics as we've talked about
before is is one way of doing it but the
faster people can adopt and try things
and experiment with things the better
and and how do you bring in a culture of
experimentation into your question so um
the uh one of the companies we advise
and we're partnered with this called MBO
Partners out of out of um um the US what
they do is they help people manage all
their contractors so today if you're a
big company you have like 5% contractors
in your community in your employee base
it should be like 30% because the
freshness of new skills new ideas
diversity Etc and so they actually
manage man in all the Outsourcing and
onboarding offboarding Etc and I think
that's going to be a model where future
where the actual reality what is a
company becomes less more and more
blurred between an AI agent outsourc
Workforce distributed work being done
elsewhere and then what's your core
offering even becomes more blurred but
one thing we were very clear about and
goes back to your horizon thing that I
mentioned
is if you see what happened in the in
the music industry where we were selling
scarcity selling cassette or DVD or CD
um and then you had about eight or so
major music studios trying to manage
that industry and manage that scarcity
then we digitize music and now we have a
subscription model of abundance where
iTunes and Spotify give you an abundance
of music for a subscription fee that we
that business model we see happening in
healthc care and in education and in
transportation and in energy and that's
a very very different business model and
so the way to do that if your legacy is
try out these new business models on the
edge and then let the center deprecate
and gravitate to the new model and we've
got lots of evidence and experience and
anecdotes about that or uh if you're an
entrepreneur build go straight to one of
these new models and build it so I'll
give you an example if I had to suggest
a business for you and and maybe for
Lisa would be create an Amazon Prime for
healthcare and wellness right where I
pay a subscription fee somebody's
curating all the stuff that needs to
happen I send you my medical data once
in a while you just tell me here just
take two of these in the morning do and
don't even think about it just do this I
would love that and once we know from
Amazon Prime that once you subscribe you
never unsubscribe because the value is
just too great and you just deliver so
much value and now you have um very
steady Revenue numbers coming in that's
a no-brainer for me that's a great
example of one of the Futures with AI
you've got all these Nanobots running
around your body they're sending info to
your fridge do we have this no your
fridge now if you had a model like that
right the more you add AI it doesn't
disrupt the business it doesn't disrupt
the business model you're just adding
more and more value to it you're just
getting better in the flow the data is
better and cleaner etc etc yeah facts
think like a Sci-Fi writer when trying
to launch your next business I have
ultimate respect for sci-fi writers it's
an incredibly hard job ones are worth
their weight and gold I want to say
something it's the darkest most
horrifying thing that I will have said
today and I said a Litany of horrifying
things and that is and strike me down if
you disagree
if you're an entrepreneur you have one
job and one job only and that is to
solve novel problems okay now the bad
news okay the hardest thing in the world
is to solve novel problems yes and this
is where I see everybody fail and I see
people taking uh courses on how to
integrate AI courses on how to Market
courses on how
toop hang on hang on okay let me
challenge you give me an example of a
novel problem word all right if you try
to integrate AI in fact I'm I'm going to
look right into the camera if you try to
integrate AI right now today boys and
girls you are going to be sadly
disappointed because that is not
ready for prime time in
99.999% of times however what he said
earlier about being AI ready now that's
special the problem is that most people
are not going to know how to navigate
through the very novel problem of
integrating AI either into your startup
or into your very robust company because
how do you deal with an immune system
as you know fir that is brutal and
you left Yahoo because the immune system
was too big of a pain in the ass to deal
with but I just finished telling you we
solved that problem in fact we've open
sourced the methodology so that anybody
can pick up the methodology and go run
this system it's a redot Ty model if
they want to run it themselves can no no
they are you telling me that a guy with
an 85 IQ is going to be able to pull
that off wait I'm talking about a
company yeah you and me both yeah so if
you're we now have lots of successful
examples
70 plus and you're saying none of those
people know how to solve problems they
just paint by numbers with your system
well what they do is when you change the
culture in a company and make it more
adaptable and flexible well this is what
should I describe how it works you can
but the punchline for me is going to be
the same that will be so messy in the
middle of actually doing it that getting
to the other side of that is about
solving ala problems because one of the
problems is going to be Sally in
accounting her mom is dying of cancer
and she now being a real stick in the
mud and she is freaking the out and
you're like why is she responding like
this this is super weird so you pull Sal
aside and you say hey this isn't like
you to have this kind of really negative
response I can tell you're very worried
about something I would just love to
hear you walk me through what the
problem is that alone is difficult to do
to recognize that Sal's creating a
problem to have mapped her history out
and be like that's not how she normally
is to pull her aside and definitely
handle that situation entrepreneurship
is a Litany of getting kicked in the
face and because I'm working with
beginning entrepreneurs right now who
are trying to build the next great thing
on AI and I watch one after another
after another get kicked in the face
over and over and over because they have
a chicken and egg problem hey I want to
create this amazing thing using AI hey
AI is not quite there it's not quite
giving me the thing and then they're
like okay this is going to take me a lot
longer to build let's say it's going to
take me three years to build this and oh
wait I need to attract either capital or
co-founders but Tom I don't know how to
attract AI product guy today yes and
then I say oh by the way finding a
co-founder is like finding a marriage
you have to be really thoughtful oh my
God I just got a
divorced it it is really easy for us to
sit here and say oh go do this that's
why if you disagree and you think no
solving Nel problems is a joke this is
paint by numbers world now this is so
easy cool strike me down and tell me
that I'm crazy okay but so so I'm not
convinced yet um have I given you my
turtle eggs analogy for startups turtle
eggs yeah no so I look at startups as a
a turtle laying 200 eggs in a nest
right then she runs off and maybe only
150 of them hatch for whatever reason I
have 150 little turtles running to the
if this ends with me being able to run
away from my company and it just grows I
here for this I'm talking something else
uh these are 100 little 200 little
startups as the turtle EGS so now
they're running towards the water and
the fish are eating the birds are eating
them animals are eating them they're
getting stuck in crevices they get into
the water now the fish are eating them
and only five will get to the bottom and
the difficulty with the startups in
general is that when you look at the
original Nesta 200 it doesn't matter how
smart you are it's really hard to figure
out which five of those eggs are the
ones going to make it to the bottom okay
it's a number of game is Elon just
getting
lucky he's done it over he's lucky but
he's also working unbelievably hard and
he brings first principles to play there
you go so that's really do you know what
first principles allow you to do not
solve no problems I totally got that but
the problem with so here's my
interpretation of how Elon works it's
very he looks at a technology that's
growing exponentially solar energy brain
Computing interfaces whatever where will
that technology be on a 10-year price
point in a 10-e performance curve and
then build a company to intercept that
curve because it kind of takes 10 years
to build a global company having that
company survive that 10 years is no
trivial matter because you have to go
through all sorts of difficult
Shenanigans fundraising Etc get there
but if you can get there then you catch
the technology as TR accelerating and
boom off you go that's why I think he
does he he just does that again and
again and again
okay and he doesn't he has the ability
to just so that exponential mindset
allows him to operate and navigate in
this way the me we've actually laid out
in chapter 15 of the book a very clear
prescriptive path on how to build a
company you create an MTP you go find
communities that match your concerns
like curing cancer go join meetups or
whatever from that Community you create
a founding team of people that share
your vision and share the MTP typically
four people a vision guy a product guy
an engineering guy and a finance guy
maybe you need three in the future but
okay four then at step four you come up
with your breakthrough idea uh which
should be 10 times better than the
status quo or 10 times different or
better or whatever because if you're 10%
better they'll ignore you 10 times
better they can't ignore you then you
follow Lean Startup thinking come up
with your MVP then you follow the rest
of the EXO model and apply all the EXO
attributes tried and true we've now seen
thousands and thousands of entrepreneurs
running this model very very
successfully they have to go through
that order you have to have your MTP
because if you're not passionate about
that business you won't succeed through
all the very very difficult times now
you make a very valid point which is
that the AI Juggernaut and the it's kind
of washing through a whole bunch of
stuff is coloring and tainting a lot of
these functions in these steps because
people have to deploy it they don't know
quite how to deploy it the models are
not ready for Prime Time use it's not
off the shelf in many cases do you then
go build your own llm how do you get the
source data where do you steal it from
what what legal uh quanties you're
getting yourself into and Hazard legal
Hazard there Etc and then you're trying
to get to some what the hell does the
customer want and the customer is
totally confused today right and that's
maybe the biggest problem of the future
that I see coming that the consumer does
not know what they want and so they'll
go back to the old things so I think
this is a very very difficult time but
that's when you have the biggest
opportunity for
disruption and I think that's what will
carry people through so but the AI ready
question is the question now applying to
every single business and nonprofit in
the world because they could radically
transcend and transform their
performance but they need to figure out
how to do
it s tell people where they can learn
more from your beautiful there'll be
Links at the bottom I'm at open expo.com
I'm in the community um and we do we
meetups every week on how do you solve
for these problems and get through some
of this we're putting a workshop
together out of demand from our
community saying I need how to be AI
ready so we're crafting a halfday
workshop that will give everybody a
clear strategic path uh down because the
problem today is twofold one is people
are jumping into AI without realizing it
and dashing themselves on rocks because
I haven't seen clearly where the Deep
spots are so how can you make sure
you're not doing that and secondly how
do you solve the immune system problem
and the cultural Readiness of your
company to be ready for this so if you
can navigate that and we do a quick
Workshop to gauge your Readiness then we
can point you down a path and you can
then start putting building blocks into
place so we're starting to do that now I
love it yeah plus the nft collection
which is going to be huge what's it
called it's called EXO Heroes there it
is and um it's going to be an ordinal
collection for all the builders in the
world that are building this Edge stuff
and so that's an area which I'd love to
have a other conversations with you
about because you've got really great
experience in this I mean let me show
you this like this was put together by
our community members it's a whole kids
book called Sophie's epic space mission
on how one of our EXO Heroes helped her
do this they did this in 40 hours the
whole book AI generation story creation
animation Etc that's creativity now
because that's what I think AI allows
you to do it just amps your game this
would have taken 40 weeks 10 years ago
and now it's 40 hours right so I think
it's magical what's going to come in the
future I can't I can't wait I love it
again I have my optimism that we'll have
to deal with no totally get it all right
everybody if you haven't already be sure
to subscribe and until next time my
friends be legendary take care peace if
you enjoyed this episode be sure to
check out this other conversation with
Peter diamandis you're living through an
inflection point in human evolution
between Tech like AI Quantum Computing
and biotech the next decade will bring
about more dramatic changed in the last
100 or even 200 years combined