Kind: captions
Language: en
I don't think it's it's an accident that
democracy the combination of democracy
and capitalism and political Freedom has
been this engine of wealth and
creativity and we should want to defend
that because the Alternatives all the
alter all the Alternatives that we know
about suck right I mean just where you
have an ideology that captures
everything with top- down control of you
know individual behavior and you try to
make an economy run on those rails or
you try to make a uh you know a
political system conf form uh and you
have all of these awful experiments that
we've seen you know you know communism
being Salient but you know obviously
fascism all these all these variants
that we that we are right not to want
and what we have coming you know over
the transom and up through the floor is
a
uh a political movement and a religious
uh uh tital wave really of of religious
conviction uh coming into Western
society which um it's using
our values against us right our values
of Tolerance our values of openness like
our values of wanting to help and our
our values of self-criticism where we
have looked back on our history of
colonialism and racism and you know all
of our uh you know Tendencies to
xenophobia and selfishness and we have
we have grown s sufficiently embarrassed
by that rightly so and critical of that
rightly so and not disposed to ever make
those mistakes again rightly so uh
and yeah and now we have genuine Bad
actors who know that whenever they s
merely use the term racism that settles
all arguments at least left of center in
our politics right you just call someone
a racist and you've won you've you
you've revealed them to be a racist
racist and you you've won the argument
um and we have you know islamist stealth
groups in every Western Society
certainly in America and the UK uh try
really trying to advance a a Theocratic
a agenda we have Qatar which is the
which is literally the largest funer of
universities in Britain and America now
more than any other country on Earth
Qatar which has is governed by a
theology that comes straight out of the
Muslim Brotherhood um all of this is
Insidious all of this is is uh in part
what explains the you know the Frank
delusion of our you know ostensibly most
educated kids in the country when in the
immediate aftermath of October 7th
literally before Israel had done
anything in response this has nothing to
do with dead babies in Gaza this has to
do with with a kneejerk reaction against
Israel being the bad guys even when you
had over a thousand people you know
innocent for the most part peace
activists murdered in their bedrooms at
dawn by a genocidal death
cult our smartest kids who spending you
$90,000 a year on on tuition couldn't
figure out who the bad guys were on on
October 7th we are the victim of a kind
of scop and it's it's our own values
that are being weaponized against us how
is the scup running Constantin what is
it that it partiz in our mind is it just
distance from the winning of all these
freedoms uh is it something else well
let me come back and just first talk a
little bit about the west and what what
I think makes it great I think Sam did a
great job of outlining a lot of that I
would just maybe you build a little bit
on some of the things you said and one
of them is I don't it is my experience
that people in the west fundamentally do
not understand even
remotely how unique what we have in the
west is particularly when it com comes
to individual rights I mean we live in a
world in which if you accumulate wealth
as you have you're essentially that's
your wealth you're
protected uh this is not the case in
most of the rest of the world today
there is no private property at a high
level in Russia Mikel horovsky was the
richest man in Russia and the moment he
tried to say anything about he just
tried to give some money to an
opposition party party that was against
Vladimir Putin he ceased being the
richest man in Russia almost immediately
and went to prison for 10 years to a p
penal colony eventually
exiled the same is true in China Jack
Mah billionaire criticizes banking
regulations not she banking regulations
disappears for a year not heard of not
not heard from he came back not no
longer criticizing came back with a very
different opinion just magically and
there are other people like that baow Ma
I can't remember the other guy's name
these are just examples of something
that is routine so the idea and this is
why our system works this this isn't
like oh it's nice that PE billionaires
can keep that that not that's not what
I'm saying what I'm saying is our system
works because the incentive structure
works the incentive structure in Russia
or in China is not to create things of
value to other people and therefore
become rich as you have done it is to
serve the system to serve the people
above you to serve the people above you
in the hierarchy in their corrupt needs
if you do that you will become rich in
Russia or you will ret retain your
wealth in Russia and if you fail to do
that you will cease to be rich in Russia
so the reason our system works is
because we have created incentive
structures that take us forward that
that mean that talented inventive
creative driven passionate smart people
can profit from that Talent can profit
from their own hard work and retain what
they create um the same is true uh on
almost every level I mean our
technological progress this is a
self-evident thing that smart people
don't talk about but I feel like
sometimes it needs explaining the reason
the West is so technologically Superior
is not disconnected from its culture of
freedom of the individual I this should
be obvious to people but for some reason
we don't talk about it nearly enough the
reason we are the most technically
Advanced Society in the in the world and
in the history of the world is partly
because we allow people to pursue their
Curious interest and to profit from them
if they create something of value to
other people um so I think sometimes
when we talk about this idea of
individual Freedom we talk about them in
a kind of moral sense like oh it's good
it's obviously good it's obviously good
for people to be free well actually yes
and also there are some very practical
consequences of that freedom that are
the reason we are where we are so that's
just a little bit of why I think the
West is unique and it's worth protecting
and you know we've used the word
experiment a lot talking about communism
and others we should be honest de
liberal democracy is an experiment and a
very recent one and a very recent one so
uh like all new ideas it can go off the
rails very easily if the core of what
made it what it is is not maintained and
I think the reason that many of us have
been speaking up about this for some
time now and the reason I wrote my book
and and and and many other people have
been talking about this is I think we
are abandoning the
things that made us who we are and we're
abandoning some of the things which we
ultimately after centuries of struggle
and bloodshed and violence and
disagreement we actually were starting
to reach a place where we were
identifying some of the memes as you
like to call them that work in the type
of society that we want to create the
idea that people should be treated on
the content of their character was a
meme that was developed through a lot of
pain and a lot of suffering and a lot of
violence and a lot of discrimination and
a lot of awful treatment of in in that
particular case black people but if you
go to other parts of the West there
would have been other other ways of
conceptualizing that that still exist
right and we eventually came to the idea
that actually that that ancient thing
that is so hard wied into us the tribal
M the the you know call it racism call
it xenophobia whatever is just ingroup
outgroup right that thing that is
hardwired into us we have an
intellectual idea that can sit on top of
that that can mitigate a lot of
that that's incredible it's an
incredible I mean this idea doesn't
exist in China the idea that people are
to be treated equally respective of the
race or ethnicity or religion and I
wrote a whole piece on my suback a while
ago about talking about this and I just
gave example after example of you know
in China we talk about racism all the
time in the UK for example right and I
just gave an example of a commercial in
China where a Chinese girl is is doing
the laundry uh and a black guy comes up
to her and he starts flirting with her
and she's like oh she shoves them into
the the washing machine puts this
product that's being advertised in and
guess what the pay office he comes out
Chinese whoa right this is not a long
time ago and it explains to you why they
have a million Chinese Wagers in
concentration camps right the idea that
all ethnic groups are to be treated
equally does not exist in Russia not
even remotely and Russia is to a large
extent a multi-ethnic country it has
large Muslim populations it has large
ethnic minority populations the idea
that they are the same as everybody else
would seem absurd to anybody in most
parts of the world the idea that gay
people should be treated the same as
stray people
you you would be laughed out of the room
people don't like hearing this in the
west because they can't process that
reality but it's like you know this
endlessly joked about que for Palestine
thing they will throw you off a [ __ ]
roof that's what they're going to do to
you yeah right and from that extreme you
can work your way down most of the rest
of the world they're not going to throw
you off a roof but you're not going to
be treated equally so we we struggled
and we fall and we
we went through a lot of horror to get
to that place and the symptom of that
unraveling that I'm deeply troubled by
is that we are doing the exact opposite
Dei is the exact opposite of that idea
and it's embedded in every institution
now the idea that you can pick people
you can you can say this group has got
better outcomes than that group that
means and we need to treat these people
better than these other people right it
doesn't matter way you play that Dynamic
it's irrelevant it doesn't matter if you
if if it's you put black people at the
top white people at the bottom brown
people at the top black people it
doesn't matter how you play that game it
always leads to bad outcomes and the
reason that anti-Semitism now is
becoming much more prominent is is is a
natural reflection of that world view
it's a reflection of the worldview in
which successful people are are
successful by virtue of privilege or
corruption or abuse of others and
unsuccessful groups or groups that don't
do as well in certain Fields uh are
there because they have been abused
because they've been taken advantage of
once you implement that every successful
minority is going to be in the fire line
whether that's Jews whether that's uh
asian-americans whether that's uh
African-Americans who are first
generation from Africa right they're
incredibly successful in America you're
going to see all these groups being
attacked in some way whether that's in
words or other ways
because we are breaking the thing that
made us who we
are okay so assuming that that gets
embedded in the mind on the back of
compassion essentially like look at
these people you can't leave them behind
something I've talked about on my
podcast before cuz my mom was in uh
transportation in a high school back
where I grew up there was this law pass
called mckenny vento where No Child Left
Behind and they would drive a single
school bus two hours one way to pick up
one kid and bring him back and I was
like that that is compassion turned
pathological like that's nonsensical um
how do we flip that idea because you're
definitely not going to get people to
buy into something that makes them feel
survive I don't mean that we're all
going to die tomorrow what I mean is
there's a difference between
Rome and and
Italy ancient Rome the great
civilization and Italy which lives on
the ruins I I don't mean this to to
insult my Italian friends there's a
difference between being a great
civilization and selling trinkets on the
ruins of that great civilization 2,000
years later it's a big [ __ ]
difference and every American is going
to feel that and every person in the
west is going to feel that if we allow
our cult to deteriorate to that point so
unless we orientate towards truth which
is the balance between empathy and
compassion and pragmatism that's where
that that place
is we will not survive and that's why I
keep telling people these depressing
things because unless we get a grasp of
where we're heading I don't think we're
going to correct the course I really
don't well it's also a matter of of just
consistency I think the the most
effective way of arguing against the
these extreme positions is to show their
internal inconsistencies and and the
reductio ad absurdum so I mean so so on
the left you take the the woke left
they're they're highly sensitized
toward around variables like racism and
homophobia and
um um political inequality between men
and women say right so so you take a you
know feminist activist who is Allin for
Palestine not
especially disposed to to think about
who Hamas really is right and yet can
effortlessly see that she's against a a
white
supremacist Theocratic Nazi cult right
if if if these were white Christian
nationalists theocrat Nazis who thought
women should stay you know in in in the
house as breeders and and you know just
just baking and having kids and that uh
and they Express nothing but xenophobia
and anti-Semitism and uh white supremacy
that's all instantly recognizable as
evil and yet you can connect all of
those dots for Hamas or any other
jihadist or even islamist organization
and that's exactly who they are it's
exactly who the mother Muslim
Brotherhood is right um it's exactly
some of these some of these groups are
actually funding Middle East studies
Departments of Georgetown and and you
know Princeton that's that's who the who
these guys are right so um the left
should be able to see the internal
inconsistency they should be able they
should be able to see that if they're
four women's rights they're against 98%
of girls in Somalia getting
clitorectomies right or uh you women in
Iran deciding to take off the veil and
being thrown into prison and tortured
and raped and even killed for having D
to show their hair right and the and the
and the most
obscene distortions of of of moral
intuition here are can be seen in
moments like when Linda sarur this
hijabi theocrat bully gets picked as one
of the women to Anchor the women's March
right she's she's wearing you know
Shephard Ferry does a you know hijabi
poster and the and the and the and the
Very symbol of of of the of essentially
essentially gender apartheid throughout
the Muslim world is co-opted as a symbol
of women's empowerment in the west right
this is I mean it's a it's just a
complete nullification of of moral
intelligence and the and the very real
solidarity that that should that should
be obvious between women who care about
their rights in in the in the west and
the women they ostensibly care about in
the Muslim world who being thrown in
prison for for taking the hijab off I
mean it's just it's just the confusion
is so obvious it's so right on the
surface eventually people will be
embarrassed by this I mean in so far as
it's CA culture is incapable of
improving itself and we know it is
there's going to come a time when with
all these you know girls from barard and
and Columbia and and uh brandise and all
these liberal
institutions are going to be embarrassed
to to to look back at how
they just got confused about the the the
the the veilance of religious symbols
who their friends were who their enemies
were at moment I it's just it is as
upside down as anything awful in our
race has passed and and and it has the
additional variable of being masochistic
I mean we're is it like at least with
old school racist outgroup hatred it was
you know your your attack the victims
are are others
but what what's happened in the west I
mean to take another example from the UK
I mean like the rotheram Scandal right
where you have literally you know over a
thousand English girls you know some of
whom are 12 years old getting raped by
by um uh mostly Pakistani men and no one
is doing anything about it because
everyone's afraid to be C called racist
so literally the the parents would come
into the police station and say my
daughter was just ra gang gang raped by
a bunch of taxi drivers and they would
it would it wouldn't be prosecuted
because the police department was so
afraid of being called racist the Optics
of the problem was so intolerable that
everyone was allergic to it it's this
kind of masochism that is is going to
undo the west and it's going to undo the
I mean I've been saying this for 20
years and I think it you know hopefully
this will never come true but we're
seeing the signs of it coming true is in
so far as the left can't get its head
screwed on straight around this specific
variable of islamism and jihadism
it will potentiate the right-wing
populism and a thirst for right-wing
authoritarianism across the west and we
will have we will have Fascist
governments because as you know David
from one said if if liberals won't
police borders fascists will and and
that's that's where we're headed unless
we we uh we talk some sense to ourselves
on that topic what were we going to say
well I was just going to say I mean I
completely agree with that because look
ultimately I you know I I I have a piece
coming out shortly uh about this was I
spent a few weeks with Jordan on tour um
and I never really I honestly understood
why he talked about Order and Chaos so
much and ultimately a few things I've
seen and experienced have made me if you
ratchet up the chaos enough people will
crave order so much they're not going to
give a [ __ ] who's giving it to them and
this is why the I think the only way
culturally to solve this problem is you
have to make uh the core Western ideals
cool again they have to be cool it has
to be uncool to to be one of these woke
people with blue hair it has to be
uncool uh to uh to have the idea that
different groups should be treated
differently it has to be like why are
you being like that do you know what I
mean that's what we have to do
otherwise it's going to be the option
that Sam described I mean what is
happening uh
you know I often get I get very
irritated when people say things like
well we're giving all this money to
Ukraine but we can't even police our own
border what what
is just like the homelessness in La that
you drive past here every day just like
all sorts of other social problems this
isn't a money problem it's an ideology
problem right and until we get that
ideology out of power and replace it
with one that is more sensible we are
going to ratchet up the chaos more and
more and then the forces of order are
going to come
back uh it's that's that's the stories
all this time we are constantly in the
tension and as you I think you
articulated last time I was here when we
interviewed you that balance is
necessary between all things there is a
balance to be struck between cha you
know this is why conservatives uh often
think I'm a conservative and they get
really disappointed when they find I'm
not and people on the left accuse me of
being a conservative even though I'm not
and it's not because I love order and I
hate chaos I'm actually very open to a
bit of chaos you know I used to be a
standup I like making offensive jokes uh
I'm pro- legalizing some drugs you know
on all sorts of issues I like opening up
the the the cultural space but if you
have a lack of order and an abundance of
chaos that's where we're heading and
that's why I'm going there's too much
chaos going on um we got to be careful
not only because there's a balance that
we need but also if you mess with this
you do not know the forces that you're
going to unleash you do not know the
forces you're going to unleash because
what's happening with borders in the
UK that's
crazy what's happening in this country
with the southern border that's crazy
you you can't have that and expect
people to just sit on their hands it's
not going to happen it's not going to
happen and the truth is it's not
actually intention in intention with
real compassion right you can have the
most compassionate immigration policy
you want you still want to imple
implement it in an orderly way you still
want to know who's coming in you want to
be able to let in all the people you
actually want in and if that's 10
million refugees well then let it be 10
million refugees but at least know who's
coming into the country right so so you
can there I've never heard a defense of
of
this specific form of chaos you know to
take immigration as one example it's
like there's just there's no reason for
us to to to have this status quo and
there's no reason we ought to or there's
no reason to explain why it is well I
mean it's it logistically it could just
be too hard I don't I don't know that
anyone has actually made the case that
that actually one person on my podcast
made the case it's just there it's it's
actually physically impossible to to
have a non-porous border I'm not sure I
believe that but his this but his
argument was when you the the irony is
or the Paradox is as
you specifically with our Southern
border as you create the infrastructure
to you build the wall you build roads to
the wall so that you can build the wall
you're actually making it easier and
easier to get right to the border so
that you can actually go under the wall
or over the wall I mean this feels like
an incentive thing so you have to change
the incentive so I don't know what all
the things Biden signed into law when he
came into office but supposedly there
was some 50 some things that he did that
made it more appealing to be uh somebody
coming across families in cages and
separating kids from their families and
such that we can't even reunite them
even after a year was not a solution
either I mean we we it that whatever
remedy however we close the border it
can't look like this just dystopian
horror show where you've got people
genuinely desperate people who are just
trying to seek a better life in cages
and separated from their kids right so
we have to figure I know I I know
nothing about that part of this story I
don't know why it has to escalate to
people in cages but um I show me the
incentive and I'll show you the outcome
right so there's obviously some
incentive has changed and then also I
don't think people understand that if
you create an incentive people are going
to take advantage of it and so the one
incentive that got changed was listen
you know it's no longer true that if you
get to the Border you might never see
your kids again and wind up in a cage
right like that that was actually that
the news of that horror was propagating
back into the system and this has to be
like that though right you could have a
physical border and then anyone who gets
to that border just gets redirected to a
legal Port of Entry where they have to
make an application for Asylum just like
everybody else right it's it's an
ideology problem if there was the
willing and look and the reason we know
this is there are examples where it's
been fixed in recent years in 2013
Australia had illegal immigration
running at 17,000 people which for their
population of about 20 25 million people
is a lot of
people but they have these islands I
mean they have they have geographical
advantages that that what they had was a
leader who was willing to do some
unpleasant things in order to get that
problem fixed and in in the in the short
term and in the interim there were
people who suffered as a result of that
in the long term there are far fewer
people who end up making the perilous
journey across the ocean dying Etc uh
This Is The Runaway compassion thing
look the idea that a country can have a
border is uncontroversial it's been the
the case throughout
history how many Marine bases are
getting invaded in this country none
because they have a border that's
enforced that's protected right but I
mean there's a larger geopolitical issue
here which I think our compassion should
spread to which is we should we should
recognize that we have an interest in
not merely exporting chaos beyond our
borders we want a world world order that
is is more and more sustainable more and
more Equitable and so we we we we have
we have an interest even just a purely
selfish interest to to make life better
in a place like Honduras so that we
don't have so many Hondurans escaping
escaping the murder capital of the world
or or seeking to escape it to come to to
America right so that's if you like that
clip check out the full powerful episode
here and I'll see you there