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Language: en
when a crisis is happening uh people
tend to have emotional responses and
tend to be coming from a a place of fear
uh and that tends to uh prevent people
from thinking critically or calmly or
rationally about situations or about
policies and so a lot of um you know
during Co obviously a lot of focus was
on covid-19 itself on the biocurity
situation not just so much on the
financial situation uh but for example
if there was a you know a major crisis
going forward that would greatly impact
um Americans ability to engage in
economic activity or have their
purchasing power you know close to wiped
out or something I think you would see a
lot of people really beg for any policy
response solve this crisis now we need
something and not really have people
think about what is the best policy
response um to this kind of Crisis
people aren't going to think calmly and
bring everything to the table and there
isn't it's very unlikely there will be
some sort of calm open public debate
about it uh generally what happens is
that the government says people are
scared and emotional they clamor for
some sort of solution from the
government and the government offers
some sort of solution and you know like
with covid-19 black rock anticipated the
next downturn um about a month before
the repo Market started going haywire
and presented to Central Bankers this is
the policy policy you should Implement
during the next downturn and it's very
possible that uh Black Rock is working
on policy papers uh you know for Central
bankers or other people in um you know
uh the US government about what policy
should be implemented if you know this
type of Crisis happens or that type of
Crisis happens it seems uh like they
seem uh to be designing the policies I
guess and they've uh you know had um you
know in the Biden Administration over
the past four years you know they've
been leading his former Black Rock
Executives have been leading his
economic team uh bringing us to where we
are now and likely what will influencing
what will happen over the next couple
years whenever or up until this crisis
emerges so it seems um you know very
likely that they'll be uh you know
dominating uh you know fiscal response
again and then people uh because they're
not really aware of how this is
developed or really uh you know there's
just not a lot of media coverage about
you know for example the role of Black
Rock in uh the bid Administration or in
you know on kamala's economic team
specifically uh I've seen very little
coverage if any of that uh recently
maybe a few blips here and there of when
those people are appointed but nothing
uh significant beyond that and then of
course there was very little scrutiny um
of us covid fiscal response um I think
as well um and it's just sort of written
off as uh this is what the government
had to do to respond to the crisis in a
lot of situations but I don't think
that's necessarily true because again um
you know that uh fiscal response uh
began well before uh you know covid was
declared a a pandemic by the World
Health Organization preceding that by
like several months right so um I don't
know I I think it's um uh a complicated
situation it's complicated to anticipate
what will exactly happen but again
history and tends to repeat itself in
these cases and the fact that you have
black rock so embedded with the Democrat
specifically and also have this
historical precedent with uh Trump when
he was in office last time it seems very
likely that they'll be doing this again
so I guess my role in this is to try and
generate awareness so we can have a
discussion before that time of crisis
when people are emotional and Afraid and
concerned about their money um about
whether we should be having Black Rock
uh at the helm of this when the next
Crisis
emerges I would say
no yeah okay so let's ask the obvious
question who should be in charge in that
moment who who do we put in charge of
fiscal policy in times of Crisis or
otherwise I don't necessarily have the
best uh answer to that I guess because I
think our Uh current system uh
specifically as it relates to you know
the US Treasury Department has
consistently been a revolving door for
the last several decades with Wall
Street um and like you know like Goldman
Sachs for example has had very
significant uh treasur or uh former
Goldman Sachs Executives have held very
prominent roles at the treasury when
crises have emerged so as an example you
have one of the top guys at Goldman
Sachs uh Robert Rubin uh being a key
figure in the Clinton administration's
uh economic policy is treasury Secret
secretary and help helping engineer the
repeal of glass Eagle uh which creates
you know arguably the 2008 financial
crisis when George W Bush's Secretary
treasury at the time the crisis happens
is Henry Paulson another former top guy
from Goldman Sachs that allegedly told
members of Congress if they didn't bail
out the banks that martial law may be
declared in the United States for
example and then uh when the covid
fiscal response happened Steve minuchin
is a former top Goldman and tax
executive as well so you in as far as
you know the big parties Democrat and
Republican uh they tend to appoint
people to treasury that come from these
top uh Wall Street banks that have a
history of predatory and arguably
criminal behavior and so you know I
think there needs to be a much larger um
structural change I guess uh to prevent
that type of revolving door policy if
we're going to see any sort of
meaningful fiscal response to a crisis
that actually does take uh you know the
needs of regular Americans into account
because historically that is not what
has happened um and the people that come
to treasury tend to have the best
interest of Wall Street at heart and not
the best interest of regular Americans
at heart and I think again that's sort
of a phenomenon that's not exclusive to
treasury either you have this type of
revolving door phenomenon and really uh
most aspects if not all um of the US
government where you sort of have
regulatory capture um uh you know of the
people supposedly regulating those
Industries the the industries themselves
tend to have put their top people at
least these days you know into those MA
major regulatory positions through this
revolving door phenomena so I think we
need to uh find a meaningful way to stop
that before we can expect that um you
know major government fiscal response
would be designed with the interest of
regular Americans of heart with
mainstream at heart and not Wall Street
at
heart okay uh the question becomes how
do we do that so walk me through just so
that we're not talking abstract stuff
we're really bringing it down to earth
what are the interests of Main Street or
the average
American well I think regular Americans
would like to uh stop having uh their
money stolen from them or being misused
on things uh where it's basically being
sent to enrich uh multinational
corporations particularly in the War
Industry um uh where you have a lot of
you know uh there's been a lot said over
the past several years decades really
about the military-industrial complex
and how a lot of the uh Wars that us
Empire uh goes to start in other
countries uh generates I'm stop you I'm
gonna stop you really fast just because
you know this stuff so well um that
you'll fractal into 10 more extremely
valid issues but I want to start with
you just said regular Americans want to
stop uh their money being stolen from
them I will say I don't think the
average American realizes that their
money is being stolen whenever I bring
that up I feel like I'm screaming into
the void uh so how exactly are Americans
dollars being stolen from
them okay I would say it's going to
things that are not actually building uh
necessary infrastructure or or uh
meeting Americans needs so money's mean
taking them from them via tax and just
miss spent yeah I think taxpayer money
um has been has been people uh taxpayer
wealth and the money brought in through
taxes has been misused uh and
essentially stolen for a very long time
if you look at the work of Katherine
Austin Fitz and Mark Skidmore for
example uh they um noted that like 21
trillion of US taxpayer money
essentially uh was stolen and uh they
can't really explain what happened to it
um so you know that alone is very
significant let me ask is taxation in
and of itself theft
um I mean I I think under the current
system because I you know if if anyone's
familiar with my work in my books for
example I sort of argue that our
government has been overtaken by this
network of organized crime and
intelligence agencies that have
essentially fused their operations and
did so in the immediate post World War
II era and I think um f financing their
operation when they're at the helm is
not good and and that the fact that our
money is is being taken from us
ostensibly to provide services to us and
if you believe in the development agenda
abroad the rest of the world but we know
if you look into it that that's not
actually what is happening this money is
being used to benefit this particular
group that has taken control of our
institutions and is very corrupt I think
in that case yes it's not it's not good
at all in an ideal system you know
perhaps I'd have a different opinion but
that's not the system we have as it is
right now so I think you know in this
situation we need to really look at how
our taxpayer money is being spent and a
lot of it is spent on um weapons a lot
of the of it is being sent to other
countries with no you know uh
stipulations on how that money is used
no oversight uh an insane amount of
money was spent on quote unquote nation
building during the war on terror in
Afghanistan and Iraq for examp example
with really nothing to show for it um
and arguably and and some people have
really effectively argued that it was
really a money laundering operation at
the end of the day a way to sort of take
taxpayer money and then have it you know
go to the hands of these contractors and
other entities and it ends up elsewhere
with nothing to show for it um in in
these particular um situations and I
think there's plenty of waste and plenty
of examples um also in the US
domestically where contractors have been
given taxpayer money to do things and
they don't actually uh do the things
that they're supposed to do and there's
really very little accountability for
those things when they happen uh because
a lot of people aren't really um aware
or really follow up on where their
taxpayer money um is going and there's a
lot of trust uh that I think people have
uh placed in Congressional
Representatives that they're going to do
that due diligence for them but um most
people in Congress are
multi-millionaires who are funded by
billionaires and multi-billionaires and
tend to have the interests of those
people at heart and not exactly uh you
know the regular Americans uh who were
in a very different economic situation
situation than them uh at heart and so I
think also you know over the past
several decades we've also had the
situation of uh you know Outsourcing our
our industry you know to other countries
beginning during uh or really not
exactly sure where to pinpoint it but
you know several decades ago um and that
has also obviously had a major impact on
uh on the United States as well and I
think there's a major effort um from the
Silicon Valley crowd uh oligarchs of
which fund both parties to sort of um
onboard uh I guess you could say the
American people and to sort of this new
system that's coming into place um where
it's sort of very focused on um or this
basic I guess sort of this coming
together of digital IDs digital wallets
Ubi um a lot of these things were sort
of being uh slowly developed and um sort
of like uh promoted to people uh but um
I think ultimately you know
um you would only have that type of
situation where Ubi is necessary I just
want to make sure that we we go Point by
point right now okay so all of that
makes sense to me um but I want to go
back because when I think about what the
interests of the average American are
it's I want to be able to um take care
of my family I want things to come in at
a reasonable cost I want to be able to
save for the future I want to leave
something for my kids and I want to make
sure that my kids have a better future
than I have I feel like if you have that
for the vast majority of Any Nation I
literally think it's completely agnostic
I think that's just what humans crave um
if if you have that for people you will
have a healthy thriving Society um
assuming we're in agreement with all of
that
even if you're black rock and you're
super greedy it does not make sense to
hollow out the middle class because
eventually as history teaches us they
come for you and when they come for you
they come with pitchforks and
Guillotines and it it's not a good look
so what is it about this moment where
the elite are so deranged that they are
from where I'm sitting playing with fire
do they just think that we're so stupid
that we'll never Rebel are they counting
on this time will be different because
they have more control I don't I don't
understand why they would do
this yeah it's hard to know exactly why
but I think it's important to say that I
um at least in my opinion I think where
the powers that be however you want to
Define that um are taking people is
essentially leading us to some sort of
two-tier Society where there is really
no need for a middle class and it's
really more accurate accurately
described as like a Neo feudal style
Society where you have a large
underclass managed by sort of this more
Elite group uh that would do the
managing and I think it really falls
under um what some people have referred
to as technocracy a sort of this idea of
more of like a scientific uh
dictatorship um and there's actually
this prominent um figure from the club
of Rome named Dennis Meadows and the
Club of Rome is uh an entity that has a
very intertwined histy with groups that
have become infamous over the past
several years like the world economic
forum for example um but Dennis Meadows
essentially said something to the effect
that you know for the good of people and
the planet and the economy in in his
words um that it was going to be
necessary to either reduce the world's
population so that people could have
freedom and use resources the way they
want or that uh there would have to be a
scientific Tator dictator ship imposed
on 8 billion or 7 billion people in
order to to ensure uh accurate
allocation of resources and all of this
stuff by a educated technocratic
scientific Elite and there are some
thinkers in Silicon Valley like Eric
Schmidt for example who wrote a book on
AI with Henry Kissinger that essentially
say that there's going to be this sort
of future brought To Us by AI um where
there will be the class of people that
understand how AI works that program and
maintain it and then there will be this
underclass really they don't say
underclass but I I would say that of
people who AI acts upon who can't
understand what AI is doing to them and
eventually because of their dependence
on AI um will become cognitively
diminished uh and mentally unable
essentially to make decisions from their
for their for themselves without ai's
help um and there's a lot of other
indications I would argue whether it's
Ubi which again is going to be for uh
not I don't think you know the top
oligarchs in Silicon Valley like Bill
Gates and and Reed Hoffman and Peter
teal are going to be receiving Ubi I
think it's intended to be for um other
people that aren't necessarily in that
economic tier um I think it's very
likely you're going to see if these
people succeed in their designs you
really more of a two-tier Society
without any sort of need for a middle
class um and so I think that's part of
why um it's been happening and I think
you know as to why they might be playing
with fire um I think perhaps they're
confident that they have a lot more um
that there's it's much easier to
manipulate people now than perhaps in
times past uh for example um there was a
2014 research study uh that was funded
by the US Air Force that was about um
trying using social studying how to use
social media to control people like
drones uh which I think is a very
disturbing research proposal in and of
itself but basically basically this idea
that you could use social media networks
by tailoring what information people see
and don't see down to the individual
Based on data mind about them off of the
internet and then analyzed by by um
various algorithms to basically you know
essentially mind control people in you
know in the world world uh in the words
I guess of that air force uh proposal
and you know other militaries around the
world have spent Millions upon millions
of dollars over the past decade plus uh
researching how to manipulate people um
on social media platforms uh so I think
it's very possible um that they think
they they can manage it uh since a lot
of you know discourse has become
increasingly online um and that you know
they can really alter how people
perceive reality to unprecedented
degrees and another thing that's brought
up in this book um by Schmidt and
Kissinger talks about you know
eventually people won't be able to know
uh what's real and what's not um you
know e pointing to things like AI deep
fakes and things like that um but you
know uh what if these deep fakes are
wielded by the state to manipulate
people and what if we were led to
believe that things happened when they
didn't happen um you know this can be a
lot of the fear mongering about deep
fakes is when it's in the hands of you
know an alleged cyber criminal or
someone like that but you know uh
there's states around the world that
have an arsenal of these digital weapons
that are uh meant to manipulate Us in in
our our perception of reality and what's
real and if you can you know use AI or
other means to control how people
perceive reality you can control their
behavior and a lot of other things so I
think um uh I think they're confident in
that and obviously there's probably
other things um that I'm leaving out but
that's you know sort of what comes to
mind at least at first for me when uh in
in regards to that question is that all
uh one of my notes is this is dark uh
this is very dark let me so that I can
get a barometer on your worldview let me
ask you uh which of the following
scenarios would be better um AI comes
into existence it has what from our
perspective is Godlike intellect it
really does know uh where best to
allocate resources to people to maximize
human
flourishing um but you have to
completely submit to the algorithm okay
so human flourishing maximized yay but
you have no autonomy you do what the
algorithm tells you to do or the sort of
messiness of The Human Experience
Freedom First you have every right to
make stupid and self-destructive
decisions but you don't get to take
advantage obviously of the algorithm's
Brilliance which of those two would be
better um yeah I am definitely human
first uh in in that when when you put it
like in in these two uh you know
specific situations um I think um it's
kind of dangerous for all of us to or
all of us a lot of us to Outsource our
creative ability to AI have ai create
for us uh because essentially when
you're um not performing those
activities yourselves it sort of um
falls under if you don't use it you lose
it Paradigm so like a lot of us don't
really do mental math anymore because we
all most people have a calculator in
their smartphone for example and so you
know you don't use that ability
eventually you lose it so what happens
if AI becomes you know um the main
generator of creative content and people
forget how to make art because they
haven't done it in so long and things
like that um I think it's possible I
know there's uh people I've talken to um
who I think are very intelligent that
argue for sort of a middle scenario
between the two you pointed out I
personally tend to fall in a more sort
of like I I prefer prefer the analog uh
future to a purely digital future uh
personally but I think there's a way to
do it where we don't really have uh this
situation where the AI algorithm is
running our lives and we don't have any
agency anymore um I think that's very
dangerous and I think also there's been
a a lot of hype um about Ai and its
ability to reach that sort of Godlike
intellect level I think it's very
possible that you could have that
essentially faked by some entity and
they could claim that which has happened
in the past uh you had a Google engineer
or perhaps ex Google engineer a few
years ago um attempt to say that a
chatbot that he was working with was
sentient uh and it was not so there's
the possibility that someone could come
out with that story and if it was widely
adopted and enough people said it was it
could be believed to be so and would it
actually be that and in that type of
scenario I think that's dangerous
because it sort of gives this Wizard of
Oz functionality for example to the
government uh we made this policy you
hate it and uh we but the computer said
so so that's why we did it you know it's
the computer's fault it's not our fault
it's a way to sort of offshore
responsibility onto the algorithm and
away from uh the people at the top um
and uh I don't really think that's uh
the way to go personally but I'm not
trying to say like eliminate Ai and
don't use it I personally am not into it
but I have a lot of friends that are um
and so I'm not trying to be like that
negative about it in that sense but I
also think this whole idea that we
should uh surrender oursel to the
algorithm because it's so much more
intelligent than us which is sort of
implicit in that Eric Schmid Kissinger
book um yeah I definitely don't agree
with that at all because I think humans
should not surrender their agency and I
think it's sort of um in that scenario I
sort of just laid out if it's overhyped
and it's claimed that it reached that
you know people could surrender their
agency to something that isn't actually
possessing this Godlike super
intelligence um and but have just been
told it is and I think you know that
that potentially could be very dangerous
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