Kind: captions
Language: en
Alex horoi welcome back to the show
thank you so much for having me very
excited truly a pleasure Mutual let me
ask why do smart people stay poor they
don't do the things that makes people
rich and I think they probably convince
themselves that they're smarter than
they are and so if you were smart then
you would be
rich and so then it follows that there's
probably a a series of traits of
behavior that you don't do either
because you think you're above them uh
or you don't know about them so either
it's a declarative knowledge deficit
meaning you don't know about the thing
uh which has nothing to do with the
intelligence like if somebody eats an
apple sorry a banana and they're from a
different country and they just eat it
through the skin it doesn't mean they're
stupid it means they're ignorant which
is very different that's a declarative
deficit then there's procedural deficits
which is knowing how to and I think one
of the big difficulties with smart
people is they have tremendous amounts
of declarative knowledge and very little
procedural knowledge and so it's like
saying you read a book on how to do a
private Equity deal and you know
everything that has to happen but you've
never done a private Equity deal it's
probably unlikely that you know how to
do a private Equity deal and so um
delineating those things has been
helpful for me and since the procedural
knowledge has significantly more utility
on a daily basis from a money-making
perspective I have reduced at least this
is me you know transition to me but like
I have reduced the amount of time that I
spent on declarative knowledge um and I
try to get to the procedural part of it
as fast as I possibly can because I know
that I'll learn significantly more by
failing and doing it than
you know reading a 100 books on sales
versus doing 100 phone calls like you'll
learn a lot more in the first calls yeah
it's interesting this to me is I'm
always trying to get entrepreneurs to
one think from first principles which
most people don't even know what that
means so you start by defining it but um
this feels like that getting to
understand the essence of what it is so
that you understand it the way that
somebody understands a combustion engine
so you can get in and be like well I
know what has to happen for this car to
go and if I know what has to happen you
can break it pull it apart and I'll be
able to put it back together cuz I
actually understand how this works so
how does wealth creation
work uh you have to have a mechanism for
letting people know about your stuff and
so that can happen on a variety of
channels that typically happens either
one-onone or one to many and so one
onone would be you knock on doors you
reach out to people via DM you send
emails you send direct mail you uh you
make phone calls you send text messages
any of those are 101 uh Outreach is one
way of letting people know you could do
one to many uh to people who already
know who you are which is basically
today's equivalent of a billboard which
is social media you make posts you make
content um the Third Way would be that
you run paid advertisements so on those
same platforms you just pay to get the
exposure rather than doing it by earning
it uh through quality content um and
then the kind of like the door door four
uh would be using those three methods to
then get someone who already has the
type of person that you want to
advertise to and doing structuring some
sort of deal with them but you'd still
need to reach out to them 10one you'd
have to make content to attract them or
you'd have to run an ad to get to that
person so these are the core things that
someone must do to promote whatever they
have because if we think about it from
what must occur in order for a
transaction to happen well people have
to know that you exist or that your
product exists no one can buy something
without knowing it exists and so we have
to start with promotion the second
component is that they have some sort of
voluntary exchange and so that means you
have goods and services that are
exchanged for money and so I think the
idea of like money being created really
only happens with the government but for
everybody else we exchange for it and so
there are people all around us like one
of my really fun exercises is looking at
whatever room you're in and knowing that
everything that was there there's a
business behind it so like the walls you
have there's there's the person who
manufactured the raw materials there's
the person who sourced the materials
there the labor that went to installing
it There Was An Architect who designed
it and then you look at this mic and
you're like okay well there's there's
this foam thing which he probably got
from a third party then there's the the
the mechanisms inside which is another
business there's the distributor that
you bought this from like there's all
these pieces when people are like man I
just I don't know what opportunities
there are I'm like you can literally
open your eyes and everything that you
see has a business behind it and so from
the the value component um for people
who are I'll just tie this into people
who are starting out I recommend most
people start with Services because it
requires no capital and you require time
and when you start out you use what you
have and so if you have no money and you
only have time then you trade the time
for money and so either you're going to
do something other people don't want to
do that they know how to do so like
taking someone's trash out doing Lawn
Care washing things like cleaning those
those are all things that people know
how to do but don't want then the second
level of that is doing things that
people don't want to do or know how to
do and obviously that's knowledge work
what you get you the amount that you can
get paid is predicated on the value that
whatever that skill deficiency is to the
other person and so um I think about it
like that the person has to know you
exist so you have to do one of those
advertising activities I referenced and
then the the thing that you give them is
you're going to give them some some some
amount of time back either the time to
learn the skill or the time to do the
skill um and then once that exchange is
made uh then both people say thank you
because they didn't want to do the work
and you wanted the money and so everyone
wins and then around and around we go
okay so the around and around we go you
and I both know that even though you
just laid out a lot of things that are
very very true do you think about the
Gap as to why the vast majority of
humanity will not be able to translate
that into actual
money
um I think a lot of people spend a lot
of time on everything that isn't Revenue
generating and so everything that's not
will we just outlined like if you're not
reaching out to people oneone you're not
posting content or you're not running
ads or getting in touch with someone who
already has an audience of the people
you want to reach if you're not doing
that right now then nothing else you do
matters it doesn't
matter you have to have something to
sell which like I said you can start
with your time very easy and my
recommendation is to go and get money
from a stranger doesn't matter what you
sell just get a dollar from a stranger
to to actually walk through the process
that's the procedural knowledge like
it's one thing okay oh shoot how do I
take a credit card oh that's a whole
another thing oh I have to get a payment
process oh to get a payment process I
need a bank account oh to get a bank
account I need LLC right so like you
walked like oh here we go now now I can
get my first dollar across once you get
the first dollar across the second one
comes very fast and so um why don't
people uh why don't people do the stuff
that it takes to make money because
they're doing everything that doesn't
make
money I've got so I am now teaching a
business scaling course and so yes it
actually is a lot of fun uh where can
people find it oh sure it's so funny
because the answer of course is school
your company but I promise we did not
talk about that set that up uh but yeah
on school and the it's got me asking a
lot like okay I really want these people
to be successful for no other reason
than to be a glowing testimonial and so
what's going to be the place that they
fall down um there is a concept in
sailing that I am beginning to think
other than intellect which unfortunately
matters I'm beginning to think is like
the thing it's called velocity made good
vmg okay and the whole idea is that you
can have a lot of wind but if your Sals
aren't angled in the right direction you
could be moving fast but not going in
the direction that you want to go you
could be not moving at all because your
sales just aren't able to capture it it
um or you could actually be moving fast
in the direction that you want to go and
that to me like pulling that apart as to
what are the things that people don't
understand what are like if we were
going to make angling the sales not a
metaphor but like a reality um what is
it like as somebody who's now scaled a
business
tremendously what is it in all of those
things that allows you to capture the
potency of your intellect to understand
that making just making content doesn't
do it the content has to be aimed in a
direction it has to have a goal in mind
how would you teach entrepreneurs how to
quote unquote angle the
sales so the process that I follow is
common factors analysis for basically a
retroactive look back window now that
sounds like a whole bunch of fancy words
but basically I look back at stuff I did
and see what worked better than other
stuff and then I say okay well the top
10% what things did they have in common
and then the bottom 10% or the bottom
half what things that did those lack
compared to the top 10% then I try and
do a next batch of activities whether
it's phone calls whether it's content
whether it's product iterations that
then do more of the thing that worked
and so that process has been I think the
fastest feedback loop that I've had so
rather than trying to find like a
specific course around something super
Niche which is gets really difficult the
more Niche it is I rely on the universe
for feedback which is like we have to
try 100 repetitions of whatever the
thing is look at the top 10 or 20% look
at the common factors and then do a
whole next batch of 100 with those
common factors if performance goes up
then the variables that we isoled
isolated were the correct ones and then
within that next batch there will be
another top 10 or 20% that by variation
of repetition which will always happen
uh there will be other mutations like in
DNA that occurred in in that subset that
I can then replicate again and that
process is how I got good at sales
that's how I started making content I
just I but I think the first piece that
people stop that they prevent themselves
from doing is doing the hundred
repetitions because they think that
they're it's the it's the fallacy of the
perfect pick like they're going to get
it all right so that they don't have to
fail the first time but like my favorite
one of my favorite scenes in The Matrix
is when Neo tries to jump across both
build and then he falls and Cipher
everyone's like what does it mean and
he's like everybody falls the first time
so even the one Falls the first time
obviously it wasn't the one then
whatever we can get into that but I I
just like that as a failure as an
assumption rather than something to
avoid like Elon was able to get the
Rockets up because he failed five times
faster than people were able to do one
so he got five failed Rockets out before
he got a sixth and everybody was looking
at the five failures but he's like well
look at how much further we got with
each one and I think that most so one of
the difficulties with skill is that
Masters have more Milestones along the
way and so they're able to mark progress
with more Nuance a beginner only sees
kind of a binary outcome between it
worked or it didn't work but for me if
I'm going to go into a new advertising
channel for example if I want to say I
want to start uh doing cold outbound
well actually have a great story about
this when we started doing cold outbound
for gym launch um my executive team so
you know not like experienced people
about three or four months in basically
did like an intervention with me and
they said you're putting all of your
time and attention to this we think this
is a shiny object using my words against
me right this is a woman in the red
dress uh and we think you should stop
and let's double down on what works
which for us at the time was paid ads
and some content and the thing is is
that they were too far away to know the
progress we were making and so they just
saw that we basically hadn't made any
sales we made one sale in like three
months but I knew that the first problem
we had is we didn't know where to get
the data from where do we get these
lists from so then we finally got the
list and we're like okay but no one's
picking ah we have to enrich the data
okay then we enrich the data then no one
was still picking up so then we're like
oh oh we have to find out how to get
people to pick up so we have to do local
call wrapping on our phone so that
increases the pickup frequency so people
start picking up but then no one wanted
to book a call because our script was
off so we fixed the hook and then people
would listen to us but they didn't like
the offers and we fixed the offer then
people would came to the second call but
then they weren't showing up to the
second call and then we're like okay we
have to create a followup sequence now
at this point they're like hey you need
to get you need to stop but it was just
we have a hundred steps that we have to
take and we're 33% of the way there but
if you're a beginner you don't know
you're 33% of the way there and so I
think one of the difficult things as a
beginner is that there is there is a
leap of faith like when you do your
first week at the gym you're not going
to get results but it doesn't mean that
working out's wrong it just means
they're measuring on the wrong time
Horizon and I think one of the things
that has has thrown a ton of beginners
off is the understanding of volatility
and volume so basically when you when
you have a a new business or a new ever
what appears inconsistent or volatile is
typically a function of doing too little
volume and so it's like if I it's like
yeah you know one sale comes in every
you know a couple weeks it's I'm still
you know but if we look at the
activities that generate that sale it's
like you might have done a 100 reach
outs over 30 days and then one of them
becomes a sale so it appears volatile
but really it's just you got 1% and
you're doing far too little and so if we
did 100 a day then all of a sudden we
might make one sale a day and all of a
sudden it seemed very consistent and so
the volatility is only a function of two
or of of insufficient volume and so um I
think that that misconception is why
many people who start out fail quickly
or choose not to start because they are
measuring their feedback loop on two
short of a Time
Horizon all right so if 90% of
businesses fail outright sure uh
90 6% fail to break a million and only
4% go over that what is it that those
have in common the ones that make it are
do they share something in common and if
so what well I think to cross a million
you need a consistent acquisition
process I think that's about it customer
acquisition yeah sorry yeah customer
acquisition process like in the
beginning you have to do something
period zero to one you have to do
something and then you have to make your
first dollar and then uh your
advertising is inconsistent because
you're inconsistent when you once you
become consistent then your sales become
inconsistent because you don't have a
process so then you have to D dial in
the sales process so basically
advertising in sales have to become a
consistent process with predictive
metrics we know that if we do 100
primary actions whether that's 100 posts
$100 in ad spend um 100 reach outs that
that will generate this many leads which
generates this many calls which
generates as many sales and it could be
on e-commerce or it could be you know in
in a service or um environment like I'm
describing with calls um but
fundamentally you just have to get to
that equation and once you get there
then it's just inputs and outputs and
then you're just pouring as much in and
then figureing out what the constraint
are from you putting more in at least
that's how I think about it do you force
yourself to predict the outcome of
initiative before you do it um not as
much as I used to to be really honest
with you this actually a huge change for
me um in terms of how we grow how we
grow our portfolio now I I'm actually
really curious what you think on this um
but I heard Jensen hang say it and so I
feel like a little bit better uh but
basically they did away with all
long-term planning and I always felt
like long-term planning cuz when I got a
year later I was like half these things
that we were talking about a year ago
the variables of the environment Talent
many of the major movers have changed
what the priorities are in the business
and so I focus almost exclusively now on
what are we going to do in the next 12
weeks now we obviously have long-term
objectives but I don't want to plan out
forecasts and and basically obsess and
get everything down to the decimal when
I can't even estimate the big forces
that are going to be at play now if I
say I think if we build the brand this
year that is a good thing and that's our
number one priority then great then I
can reverse that but I'm reversing it
only into the present for the next 12
weeks because things will
change very interesting so I'm thinking
a slightly different angle so here's
what I always tell entrepreneurs to do
so you describe a very similar thing to
the way that I try to go about scaling
which I call the physics of progress
okay so to me progress has a nature
there's just a way that it works so you
try a thing and it either works or it
doesn't but to know if it worked you had
to say this is where I'm trying to end
up this is is what I think is my
obstacle this is the thing I think I
need to do to overcome my obstacle now
I'm going to do that but what I find is
entrepreneurs will lie to themselves
when they get the result they'll be like
yeah that's roughly what I expected now
the problem is that that will break
their ability to do things as a thought
exercise and so now they have to
actually test everything not realizing
they don't know how to predict the
outcome so what I tell them to do is
look and this is what I do myself uh I'm
going to do this thing whether it's um
build a piece of content and put it out
whatever uh and I think this is going to
get a million views 1.5 whatever so when
it does 75,000 views I'm like whoa there
is something I did not understand and so
when it comes to content I'll even
predict at the idea level and I okay
this is what I think it's going to get
then we'll execute and I'll say actually
now see execution I don't think it's
quite as good and so now I think it's
going to be this and then you put it out
and that way if you can really come to
understand why something works or
doesn't work now you've got a better
shot but because I know I'm prone to lie
to myself that yeah that's roughly what
I was expecting because people want to
look cool yeah um but you're saying in
that scenario you guys just sort of art
by the pound get a lot more things out
are you looking to build Intuition or um
yeah I mean I think I'm so aligned with
what you said uh you know what are the
causal factors uh and I mean the whole
common factors analysis concept is
basically trying to do that like how can
we identify like we're going to do
everything with these variables in
addition to the last time and if those
variables don't meaningfully change then
they are not the correct variables um
but I it's so funny you said that
because I thought you were going to go
in a different direction so I've been um
putting together this hundred million do
scaling road map uh it's probably the
biggest project that I've done in a long
time it actually releases on Black
Friday um it's free it's free for
everybody I'm so shocked Alex horos with
the free stuff um but the I had first
thing I I I spent a long time on was
like is there a micro framework that
fits into this larger framework which is
like how does anything scale and then I
try to make an acarine out of out of it
and I think I think I have a decent one
so s is start you got to start you have
to do something C is compound you have
to do more so first you start then you
do more a is augments and then you do
better so it's like okay I've done a lot
that's the common factors part so I'm
going to try and do something better L
is leverage so how can I get it to be
consistent how can I do how can I
automate it both sides of that and then
e is expand you do it again so that's
the loop so that scaling Loop exists on
content at all levels uh organizational
structure because that that one first we
start then we do more then we do better
then we try and make it consistent and
automate it and then we expanded the
next thing um that works for markets it
works all the way across so that
fundamental unit became how I thought
through scaling all eight departments
which is what I I divide everything into
so it's customer service product sales
marketing it uh HR recruiting and
finance uh I don't put legal in there
because I didn't think it was most
people Outsource anyways for a while um
and so those are the eight functions
that I had of the business going from 0
to 500 people head headcount I did 0 100
million because no one would know what
zero to 500 people would be but most
businesses at 500 had cter you know are
usually over 100 million and it was
easier to draw parallels on
organizational structure rather than bu
Revenue because like a software company
like school can do $100 million with 25
people whereas uh a restaurant might do
a million dollars with 25 people and so
doing it by Revenue felt to uh it would
it wouldn't be it wouldn't be valid or
use F uh and so instead I went by head
count which had far more similarities
and so in thinking about that scaling um
I broke it into first there was
functions like what must occur in order
for us to move to the next level and
then you have the people who do those
functions and then the third element is
the operations that connects the people
to the functions and so that would be
like training meeting Cadence
communication structures that's all the
operation side and then the people is
what is the hierarchical uh how does how
does the hierarchy look who do you need
to hire at what point typically um and
so that's basically the three sides of
the of the pyramid in terms of thinking
about scale uh the scaling road map that
I have that I came out is just the
functions part because it was already a
monster um basically it's like an hour
plus long video going through each of
the functions of each of the departments
at each level and then I vetted it with
uh uh a few of my friends who have
multi-billion dollar companies and they
were like dude this is so accurate it's
freaky and so I was like I felt really
good about that and they helped me with
a couple of them like I would raise it
like this and maybe this is you know
move this instead of here um but that
micro framework of we have to start then
we have to do more we have to do better
then we have to automate it or or create
some sort of Leverage around it and then
we expanded the next thing was the micro
concept that I then applied across all
departments um to tease out the
functions that happen at each at each
level makes a lot of sense now so again
I'm always trying to figure out where
are people going to fall down because
you can give this stuff to people and
they're still going to struggle so you
said something earlier that that is
profoundly insightful that I want to
know how if you have a method for that
or if you just have a brain for it but
you said we need to get local call
wrapping as people are more likely to
pick up a local number so you're sitting
in a room you're not getting the results
that you want and you start thinking to
yourself what is stopping this from
happening yeah does it just bubble up
into your conscious mind or do you have
a method so I would think so if I were
to have to solve this problem out loud
in front of everyone I would think okay
what we're doing is not working what is
it that increases the likelihood that I
pick up my phone when a phone number
calls okay if I know the person and like
them that would be the highest
likelihood person that I'd pick up okay
so Lila that's the highest likelihood
pick up the second highest likelihood
would be somebody that I know so they're
their number is saved okay got it now
what numbers that I don't know would I
be more likely to pick up the numbers
other numbers that I don't know well uh
a local number that would either be
local for my hometown or local to my
regional area those be the categories
that I would probably pick now the call
wrapping feature that we were able to do
could only do one of those because it
didn't know where they were but it did
know what what area code they had so we
could call from that but if there was
another software for example that could
do both and that would have been even
cooler but that's how I would reason
through it and then obviously the the
lowest probability would be like a
four-digit number that's calling from
you know Zimbabwe or a private call or
something like that I probably wouldn't
pick up and so I just walk through it
from from that perspective then I
probably also ask other people what are
the calls that you'd be most likely to
pick up what are the call you know then
walk through it and then I would try and
tease it out that way if I had to solve
a problem let me tell you about an AI
tool that is changing how content
creators work if you're creating content
you know how time consuming it is to
find the perfect moments in your long
form videos clip anything by Opus clip
however is designed to solve that
problem clip anything uses every element
in your video people actions emotions
themes everything just tell it what
you're looking for like find all the
motivational moments or clip the part
about financially advice at impact
Theory we've integrated it into our
workflow and it's making a difference
whether you're running a podcast
creating reaction videos or making
non-talking content like ASMR clip
anything can help streamline your
workflow it's like having a social media
team in your pocket letting you maximize
your content reach without hiring
expensive video editors save yourself
hours of editing time go to op.
proo clip and anything to try it out for
yourself again that's op. proo slcp
anything the number one regret I hear
from successful entrepreneurs is not
about failure it's about hesitation I've
helped thousands of entrepreneurs start
businesses and they all say the same
thing I wish I had started sooner and
with Shopify starting a business has
never been easier they're drag and drop
templates get you up and running fast
there social media tools let you sell
anywhere people are scrolling in and
they handle all the complex backend
stuff like shipping taxes payments All
For One dashboard this lets you focus on
what matters building your business with
Shopify your first sale isn't just
possible it's inevitable if you take
action established in 2025 has a pretty
nice ring to it doesn't it if you agree
sign up for your $1 per month trial
period at shopify.com
impact all over case just go to
shopify.com
impact to start selling with Shopify
today now let's get back to the show
this is so interesting so that is one of
my favorite things to do is to go to a
conference stand up on stage with a
microphone and say okay ask me your
hardest question I have nowhere to go
there's nowhere for me to hide what is
that biggest problem that you have in
your business I've had people ask me
stuff like uh I'm a farmer in South
America and I'm going up against the
cartel what do I do I mean like
CRA but if you can do what you just did
in a formal fashion which I'll round to
thinking from first principles like if
you just start so I I'll tell
entrepreneurs you need to start at
literal physics like what do we know
about physics start from there so this
was the thing at Quest where we go to
make the bar everyone says the bar can't
be made and we're like hold on this does
not violate the laws of physics you then
realize the thing that's actually
stopping us is that for the last 70
years corn has been subsidized by the
government so everybody uses high
fructose corn syrup so all the equipment
that's being engineered is being
engineered thinking you're going to use
high fructose corn syrup which has a
certain viscosity and so now you go oh
wait a second so all we'd have to do is
engineer our own equipment got it now
maybe we're not willing to do it but at
least now I know what that sequence
going back to a combustion engine if you
understand how the engine works you can
walk through and be like it's broken
right there yeah and now you can go okay
how would I fix that what is the the
level of physics it's going to carry
across now what you did which is the
shortcut that most people will take is
look I'm trying to sell a thing to a guy
and so now I'm just leaping leaping to
the physics of the human mind so what do
I know to be true about people and the
way that you just walk through that it's
so brilliant um how do you get people to
do that like do you have magic words do
you have a training thing that you do
for people that come on so first off I
think it's a practice that I think it's
a skill I think you practice doing it
over and over and over again and you get
better at doing it um but I would say
the thing that I try to practice by
modeling that other people can model is
thinking about things only in the
observable universe and so eliminating a
lot of the Fanfare of like uh motivation
energy frequency you know manifestation
like all of these things I see all of
those as noises that we make with our
faces that may or may not increase the
likelihood that we take certain actions
and those actions have either high or
low correlate or high are higher low
correlates for the outcome that we want
and so um in trying to break apart a
system or an apartment that's not
working uh I I think about a lot in
terms of approximations what increases
or decreases the likely that what we
want to have happen happens and that
creates a really easy razor black and
white does this increase the lik okay so
if our team is incentivized on
performance have a higher likelihood
that they do the stuff that performs if
they're incen Iz on hierarchy then
increases the likely that they will
perform in terms of hierarchy and
politics so it's like okay well then I
can bet then I should do that then we
have to get into the execution of it but
just from a from an ideological
perspective getting those what would
make it more likely to occur has been a
really has been like my first razor for
this and then in terms of the creative
problem solving which I love that you
just went through with the bar thing um
is there was like an implied question
that you ask which is probably my the
two most frequently asked questions are
the one I just said which is what does
this increase or decrease the likelihood
and the second is what would it take and
I love that question because it it it
presumes or it assumes success or it
assumes reality that we can make a bar
that would do that okay then what would
it take for that to happen well I guess
we'd have to like have our own
facilities okay well we'd have to have
our own machine like we'd have to have a
different supplier that it's okay great
now that we know what that is do we have
the resources today or do we need to use
resourcefulness it's one of the two
either we have the resources or we have
to go get them them and is the tradeoff
for the for the outcome
worth assembling those resources and
what I found and this is really fun
stuff at Le this is like probably the
most fun thing that I do in my life
which is asking the question of like
okay what would it take what else would
have to be true for inact Theory to get
10 times the views in 12 months it's not
physically impossible there's no reason
for it to be like somebody else is
there's another YouTuber right now who's
going to do it this year so
what would it take for us to get that
now that might mean we'd have to we'd
have to get the smartest people okay
well what does it take to get the
smartest people well probably more money
or maybe some chunk of The Upside and
maybe I have like and I might not get
that guy but there's probably 10 of
those guys or 20 of those guys and if I
go to all of them is it reasonable to
believe that all 20 will turn me down
probably not okay what offer what I need
to give them to make it worth it for
them and then is what I give them worth
less than what I get m on the larger
umbrella and if the answer is no then we
make the trade but I think a lot of
people think in terms of I'm here how do
I how do I do more of what I'm doing
rather than what would have to be true
for this to be 10 times bigger and are
the resources required to have that
happen within my control and often times
they are but it's a move that's off the
board it's not in the in the immediate
do more and I'm all about do more or do
better like to be clear but every once
in a while the order of magnitude
changes to the business happen when you
do something different and it's usually
and to me that is strategy is that you
have limited resources against unlimited
potential moves there's a million things
you can do but you only have this much
time this much money this many people
and so the best strategists in my
opinion have the most visibility to the
most potential moves and allocate the
asset or the resources to the thing that
gets the highest return and I think the
thought process of thinking what would
it take for this reality to be true and
then working backwards has been one of
the most fruitful and productive thought
processes that I go through from a
street perspective dude violent
agreement so Lisa and I call it no
[ __ ] what would it take okay so of
everything you're trying to do in your
business no [ __ ] what would it take
again you might not be willing to do
itally but you shift out of problem
mindset into solution oriented mindset
this is one of the things that I find
the hardest to instill in people
especially if just by Nature they're uh
a problem finder where they can tell you
all the reasons why something isn't
going to work but uh Peter teal has a
really cool way to this is to ask how do
I make my 10e plan happen in months
because he said everybody gets locked
into this incrementalism like how do I
make this 10% better 30% better he's
like you have to throw everything that
you know away when you have to make
something 10x or 100 times better now
all of a sudden you're going to be
reaching for a what I call a frame of
reference that is so radically different
than the way that you look at the world
now and I'm always trying to get
entrepreneurs to understand you are
trapped inside of a frame of reference
right now and you don't even realize it
it's [ __ ] that your parents said to you
when you were a kid it's the girl that
you asked out and it didn't go well it's
the first sales calls you did and they
failed it's that business that went
under it's a thing a VC said to you one
time in a meeting that just kicked you
in the nuts and once you understand oh
okay wait a second I have to get out
this is the box that people are telling
me to think outside of and I have to
find a way out of this and that Peter
teal angle of I have to make something
that I thought would take me 10 years I
have to make it happen in six months and
I refuse to let myself believe that it's
impossible so now it's like like you
said what would have to be true yeah I
love that and the for the for the
beginner who's at zero so we went we
went Sky now we're going to go back down
to
dirt the way that you'd frame that is
what would I have to do that would make
it unreasonable that I didn't get a sale
like how much action would you be like
there's no way there's no possible way
that if I ask a thousand people to buy
something one doesn't buy it there just
there's no way
and so then you take that and he like
okay well just in case I'll multiply by
10 if I ask 10,000 people and the thing
is is that 10,000 is not that hard to do
like you hear that you're like 10,000
but like right now if you think about
that you're like well I mean yeah
obviously if I ask 10,000 people okay
100 people a day 100 days it's a quarter
and if right now you've been stuck in
years of not making that first dollar of
years of wanting to start a business
then a quarter is nothing and so again
we have this well it would be
unreasonable that if you make uh you
know 10,000 asks of different people and
the thing is is that you'll also have a
feedback loop which is that you look at
the first 100 well which ones got closer
to saying yes because you didn't get a
yes yet maybe maybe you do get a yes on
the first one it happens a lot people
are like they commit mentally to doing
10,000 and by day four they're like oh
my God I got a sale but the idea and
maybe this is maybe I should teach this
differently because maybe I should just
say do a 100 today but I want people to
stick with it uh but when when when
people do that um the feedback loop of
which ones went well which ones didn't
go well what did I do in the beginning
this one's I made a joke at the
beginning okay I'm going to make a joke
on all of them next time great now I
made a joke okay I got further in the
sale with these guys this guy even asked
me about price okay what happened in
that one okay this one I asked him about
what he was struggling with earlier on
okay I'm gonna start asking that
question too so I'm gonna make my joke
and I'm ask him what he's struggling
with and I'm gonna do that a 100 times
and so that's the that's the process of
iteration that that can get you to that
first that first W and then you just do
it as many times as you can
yeah iteration iteration it's funny
people are so terrified of failure that
they don't even stop to think that oh if
I could just not worry about
embarrassing myself then I could get in
the game Throw the punches look foolish
but I will get better and better I've
often joked it's definitely not a joke
but I've often said that part of what is
my superpower is that I can be
embarrassed longer than the next person
and also let me know what you think
about this I think you have whatever 8.4
billion chances to make make a first
impression probably more than that cuz
most people are going to forget that
they ever encountered you in the first
place and so getting out ultimately I
think what people care about is can you
they have a screaming problem that you
make go away and they'll forgive
everything that they've encountered up
to that point if you can and anybody
somebody that they respect told them no
for real like this works I think you
bother a you have a 100% chance of
bothering somebody on Earth by existing
and so if every action you take has
somebody who will hate it then it kind
of cancels everything out and you might
as well just do whatever you're going to
do
anyways very fair speaking of somebody
that clearly windes people up you
mentioned Elon earlier yeah uh what is
it that makes him
special I I'm I so many things you know
um I mean how many guys have six billion
dollar companies and run all of them and
have time to go all in on political
campaigns in in the meantime not
withstanding what side or any of that
but just just the sh like the big
question that I feel like is the
unspoken one right now at least my in
the Zeitgeist of the entrepreneur world
is how does he do it and I love the
impossible nature of the Feats that he
takes on literally pushing the the realm
of physics obviously with with SpaceX
but he reinvented the car industry he's
creating brain you know brain chips he's
he's aggressively attacking AI I'm sure
you saw the the Jensen Wang interview
where he's like he did a 19 days what
everyone else takes three years to do
and so we're talking multiple orders of
magnitude in terms of improvement
compared to the basics because he starts
at physics and works his way but he
truly does it because he's also like a
physicist he really knows it like I I
get to pretend to sound that in you know
intellectually you know whatever he
really does and so um I that that's his
his material achievements but I think
the thing that I admire the most uh is
the balls the man is not a coward and I
think that in thinking about him I think
about what are the things that he does
what are the things that I do he is more
successful than me how can I do more of
those actions that he does in order to
approximate his success and so I think
modeling is one of the most effective
ways for people to learn it's how
children learn it's how monkeys learn
it's cross species and I think that he
functions as a model for many people now
again he only became political in the
last three years so if you all of a
sudden now hate him like maybe question
that if you didn't hate him three years
ago um but you cannot question that he
is the best like right now people say
he's the best entrepreneur of Our
Generation I think he's the best
entrepreneur of all time it seems like
it to me it's it's not even to me it's
not even CL like he's yeah I mean I
could I could get on a on an Elon parade
but um he has forced me to think
significantly bigger about the problems
that I want to take on and who I want to
become and what to do with the small
platform that I have that best serves
humanity and so that's what and I I
think at least from my point of view
that he really genuinely wants to do the
best thing for Humanity some people
disagree with that I don't I don't agree
with them I think if there was ever
somebody who would have you know with
great power com great responsibility
he's probably the guy you'd want agreed
why balls why is that the thing that
catches your eye he had the most to lose
lit like literally financially he had
the most to lose so I'm quite like he
had the most to lose and went the most
polar uh on the bets that he took and I
think that again there's a really great
like master class in winning here that
he did with this whole election thing
because if you think about how Elon
tried to solve the election he
absolutely treated it like any business
problem and so he looked at the whole
map and then it was whoever wins
Pennsylvania wins the election and then
zooming into Pennsylvania it's there are
28 counties or whatever the amount of
counties that we have to win and so then
he flies to Pennsylvania himself and
then sends three weeks campaigning gives
a million dollars away a day just to get
people to register to vote holds Town
Halls every day so it's like he finds
the greatest point of Leverage and then
just bombs the hell out of it with
unbelievable amounts of action in at
that one crucial spot and I see that as
that's how he violently solves problems
it's like how do I like how do you build
a how do you build a super super
computer for AI in 19 days like he
looked at the whole supply chain and he
found the point of greatest leverage and
then was like we're going to dump as
much into this we possibly
can there are two options before people
in life so option one is lay your balls
out on the table like Elon did and you
give people a chance to smash him with a
big [ __ ] Hammer right or you can hide
you can go a long way hiding why do you
admire people that slap them up on the
table I think courage is the Quin
essential trait that leads to everything
else like you have to first have courage
you have to have courage to quit your
job you have to have courage to get
rejected you have to C have courage to
ask the girl out to shoot the shot to
run the ad and if you don't first have
courage nothing else follows and so I
see it as again it's not are you
courageous or not it's how courageous
are you it's not a binary and so I just
like I think that based on my history I
have courage because I have done things
that have required it but I think Elon
has more courage than I do and so I see
that as how can I how can I move more in
that direction if this is a trait that
leads me into the better version of
myself how do you model yourself after
somebody from afar so we live in the age
of the internet where you know people
want to get to know somebody uh I'm old
enough to look at the internet and be
like you you do not understand what a
glorious time this is to be alive I mean
it's un imaginably cool uh so people
will look at you and say well you can
get access to anybody but somebody like
Elon who you say is worthy of modeling
how would you run something that all of
them now can do yeah so this actually
comes down to I wasn't sure if you were
going to press me on this but like
courage for example
um I try to the single most effective
decision that I've made about how to run
my life across all functions has been
only thinking about behavior and erasing
everything else because it's the only
thing you can observe and I'll tell you
a little micro story about this so there
was a guy on my team who uh he we were
getting complaints that he was acting
like a
dick and so he had talked to three of
the leaders in my company who had had
one-on ones within him and said hey man
stop being a dick he continued to be a
dick and so uh they said Alex can you
talk to him and I said sure and so when
I sat down with him I said hey um to be
clear I don't really care um what you do
I care about the fact that you have now
taken my time and so this is now the
most costly thing that you could have
done for me personally and getting
complaints from other people detracts on
their ability to get things done within
the company which now also cost me and
so my goal here is to decrease the
likelihood that people complain about
you and so they keep saying that you're
acting like a dick and so he's like yeah
I know I'm working I was like no it's
fine I don't care about whether I was
like internally you can be a dick as
much as you want I don't care I don't
care about
intention what are the actions that you
take that increase the likely they call
you a dick and so number one is that you
interrupt them on meetings number two is
that you say that you know their
Department better than them and number
whatever I had I have my list of things
and I was like so don't do those four
things and do this instead so when this
circumstance occurs do this action
instead of this action and in the next
week everyone's like oh my God it was
like night and day and the thing is is
that we give each other feedback all the
time and this happens in marriages and
whatever it's like hey don't be a dick
that doesn't help people you have to
tell them granularly what to do instead
and focusing on the observable and so
this is my weaved in answer to how does
someone model Elon well it's not like I
need to get elon's mindset it's like no
look at what he does just with your eyes
what does he do because it's the only
thing that you can you can measure it
was funny cuz when you said earlier
about uh what do I want to have happen
uh what am I going to do that I think is
going to have to happen and so your
planning process is identical to ours
because it's the scientific
method like mankind has figured this one
out like we know how to make a guess of
like this is what we want to have happen
this is our hypothesis we're going to
test the hypothesis we say did we do the
thing or not and then and did what we
think was going to happen happen four
steps scientific method and so don't try
and reinvent that one like that one
works so um the same can be true but it
has to be observable for the scientific
method to occur it has to be something
that you can see saying like I need to
be more motivated well if you want to be
anything and this is this one trips I
think a lot of people out but have you
ever heard like B do have yes okay I
think it's complete Croc of [ __ ] mainly
because if we want to have something we
must do it I think if people are okay
you have to do stuff get stuff okay
we're good with that but if we just have
to do stuff and the having occurs we
don't need to talk about have so now we
just have be do all right then how do we
describe how someone
is we describe them by what they do I
mean even in the olden days people used
to be Carpenter John Carpenter John
Butler John Taylor right we literally
described people's beingness who they
were by what they did and so if you want
to be a certain way then you need to act
in accordance with the behaviors that
people describe as that trait and so
then I I this is how I make sense to the
world because the world doesn't make a
lot of sense to me in a lot of ways and
so this is the only way that I've been
able to navigate and this has given me
so much peace because I actually think
everyone's
wrong and it and it drove me nuts for a
long time because I didn't know how to
do what I wanted to do I was like I want
I want to be I want people to think I'm
smart I want people to to think I'm
hardworking that doesn't mean anything
be charismatic means nothing you can't
look at someone and say don't be a dick
be charismatic no what how do I do that
so they give you beings rather than
doings and so if you break it into the
the corresponding chunks which m