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One of the reasons I am hopeful is that
Trump is going head-on with the
universities who are really the the
great villains of our time. Um, and I
think the fact that to your point and
this something I know you are extremely
passionate about, there is so much more
space for young people to make something
of themselves without going to
university or having that credentialist
approach. Um, that I think is what would
save America because once you take care
of them, whether it's figuratively or,
you know, lamposty, um, I I think a lot
of the other issues would be resolved.
>> I think we need to indoctrinate young
people. I just think the things we're
choosing to indoctrinate them with are
horrible.
>> Okay.
>> Does that
>> I don't know about we, but they are
indoctrinating them with things that are
horrible. I'm not indoctrinating them
with horrible things.
>> Fair. Okay.
>> Yeah. I think that's fair what you just
said. Yeah.
>> Okay. What? But it's not just that
indoctrination is a problem. It's that
it's both. It's not the message is bad.
It's that they are important and
powerful. So if someone who's important
and powerful puts out a bad message, you
have to pay attention to it to some
extent.
>> Walk me through why they're the villain
of our time and how cuz I think it will
be counterintuitive for most people to
think of universities as powerful.
>> Really?
>> Yeah.
>> Wait, it's counterintuitive?
>> Uh yes. Until I heard you talk about it,
I was like, "Oh yeah, that really is
true." But it didn't hit me immediately
as like, oh yeah, that is true.
>> Wait, wait, wait.
So the point of our universities is and
has been to create the next generation
of elites, right? And if you read um
James Bham's superb book, The
Machavelians, where he looks at Paro and
Engles and and um Robert Michelle and
and not angles, sorry, it's Par Moscow
um um Sorell and Michelle. He talks
about one of the things is the
circulation of the elites and Emma
Goldman had this great essays about
majorities minorities and the point she
makes and you touched on earlier is the
majority cannot reason the majority in
any society is ballast and I know people
might roll their eyes at this but again
George Carlin's line think of the
average person half the people are
dumber than that uh how many people have
an original thought ever in their life
doesn't mean they're bad people it's
just they're just there for the ride
right so the elites are kind of the ones
that we all need leaders. That's not
even you know a question to some extent
depending on what context. So if you are
the one who is I'm using this very word
very advisedly grooming the next
generation of leaders and you know post
World War II in the GI Bill you know
this was the great middle American
dream. It's that you know my kid is the
first one in our family to go to college
and you know this this status this means
something like it's a very clear
credential that shows that you are on
the ascension you know economically and
socially and all these other regards so
it's become this is I think the biggest
bifurcation in American society or at
least it was the last time I checked
literally last time I checked it's not
gender it's not race it is did you go to
college or did you not go to college
maybe that's decreased since the last
time I checked but if you h what happens
is you have these, you know, healthy,
beautiful young high school kids going
to school and then they return a
Thanksgiving dinner like a swamp walrus
unable to talk to mom and dad. And that
is strictly and entirely the result of
the universities who have been I mean
since the 30s heavily literally Marxist
um and Marxism is synonymous with the
complete annihilation of any society
where it takes hold as I discuss in my
book the white pill. Why? What's the
foundational problem that it introduces?
>> The Marxism is violently, literally
violently egalitarian. So, if your most
important goal is equality, well, you
can't all be well, you can all be
equally rich if the term rich has no
meaning, but it's much easier to build
uh it's much easier to tear down all the
skyscrapers than to build a 100 of them
to the level of the Empire State
Building. You could do the former in a
day. Just 100 bombs, you're done. If you
want to build 100 Empire State
Buildings, good luck. Right? So that
kind and also it teaches these kids
correctly that you are the leaders of
tomorrow. You get to meet fellow
travelers and kind of have those social
connections and you know it's very
aristocratic. You're the ones who are
going to be ruling in 10, 15, 20 years
from now and you're told it is your duty
and kind of like this is why you're in
this earth. So there's no sense of
humility. There's no sense of, well,
maybe that guy who didn't go to college,
he knows a lot of things I don't in his
areas or maybe his feelings and his
views should be respected or heard. It's
it's not a thing. It's they're there,
we're here, they are there, and they're
annoying when they don't know their
place because I thought we all
understood. I went to college, you
didn't, so therefore I'm up here, you're
down here. Shut up. It's so it's not
just that they're given this sense of
elitism, it's that they're fed this, you
know, violently toxic ideology. So that
combination is horrific. Um it's why you
see corporate journalists being so
absolutely and shamelessly malevolent
and dishonest, which is part and parcel
of Marxism. Cuz leftism, Tom, you and I
are no spring chickens. And I say this
and people kind of roll their eyes and
scoff. When we were kids, there were a
lot of bleeding heart leftists. These
were older, like maybe former hippies
who really were concerned about poor
people and they volunteered in soup
kitchens and they're like, you know
what, it's not right that this family,
you know, doesn't have health care cuz
mom got sick. And that's coming not from
a bad place. And now that kind of and
people say, "Oh, that was never real."
It was real. You and I knew people like
this. It was absolutely real. You roll
their eyes cuz like you're so kind of
like earnest. But that's not a thing
now. It's just very much kind of the
revolution and and control and
domination. Um, and there's no reason
that that former brand of leftism can't
be resurrected
>> long term,
>> the earnest version of it. Okay.
>> They're like worried about poor people,
>> right? So, I'm gonna read into your
thoughts then and say that's where the
hopefulness comes from. Because as I
hear you describe the universities as uh
the villains of our time, break down
Marxism and exactly mechanistically why
it ends up being a problem. I do
admittedly get confused by how strongly
you push the ah the hopeful version of
where we're headed. Um because we've
been doing the university thing to your
point from the 30s. I'll clock it more
from the 60s in terms of it feeling like
the engine is really revving up.
>> Sure.
>> Um and
I think it was Lenin that said like give
me one generation of kids and I'll
change the future.
>> That Yeah. Yes. That's quote in my book
the white pill. I think that's ascribed
to Lenin. I don't know if he actually
said it.
>> Fair. But the kind of thing that you
could certainly see a guy like him
believing given his actions. Hitler
obviously ran the same playbook. Hitler
youth like give me the kids I'll train
them how to think. Uh so given that
we've trained so many generations of
kids to think like that and the that
Marxist tainted version of the left has
now gained so much steam and popularity
how
popularity steam.
>> Okay so momentum size
>> I don't think it's popular in gen pop at
all. I think Gem Pop's just following
suit.
>> I'll throw out my take on that would be
that when you shift the Overton window,
a thing that people just take as
whatever like it it just is. There's no
longer an allergic reaction to it. Not
to the extent that I would expect.
>> I I I agree. So I think people
especially on right of center circles
underestimate how social leftwing
America is. M
>> so um if the fact that the trans thing
happened almost overnight
>> and even now it's hard to stop people
from operating on children is something
that is so um I think people need to
have that data point and realize and I
think there is this cope among right of
center circles that okay this is just
the crazies and Karen doesn't believe
this a lot more Karen believe it than
you think uh and a great a grand of how
you know this is there are plenty of
people um and let's suppose you believe
in the whole entire co narrative. It's
very clear that if you're a child, it is
not a problem, right? It strikes the
obese and the elderly. People have
weakened immune system, so on and so
forth. If you're a kid, it's not a
thing, right? And they would still tell
you these kids have to get shots. Kid, I
didn't like getting a needle in me as a
kid. I'm sure you didn't either. No.
>> Have to get a shot every six months in
perpetuity for why. There's not even in
their framework, there's no reason for
this. So, and if you see how exciting
uh awful are affluent white female
liberals that their their boy I've never
heard that before.
>> Oh, yeah. Affluent white female
liberals. If their son, god forbid,
touches that pink crayon, it's off to
the races cuz now they've got a girl,
right? So, I remember, do you remember?
>> So horrifying.
>> When we were kids, there was Toys R Us,
right? Of course.
>> And this is illegal now in California. I
don't know if you know this. Uh you
cannot have the aisles in the toy store
segregated by gender. What?
>> You didn't know that?
>> No,
>> it's illegal.
>> What?
>> That is the most moronic thing I've ever
heard.
>> It's not the most. It's it's it's it's
up there. And I remember as a kid, this
probably happened to you, that you're
looking at the Gobots and you turn the
corner and you're in Pink Barbie land
and you panic cuz if someone sees me in
the Pink Barbie land aisle, it's game
over. I don't know what I thought was
going to happen, BUT I'M LIKE, "AH, YOU
KNOW, it's like being in North Korea. I
shouldn't be here." So the point is
there is a huge percentage of population
that will uh eat this up like slop. It's
not this tiny they'll just go with where
the wind goes.
>> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Okay. So do you
see a way to unwind it? Like how do we
do we um defund universities that are
giving getting government dollars and
say you've got to balance out your
>> I know how to do it.
>> Ready? Tell me. Yeah. So one of the most
effective methods of um victory is
turning your enemies against each other,
right? Taking coalitions and and making
them hate each other. So my plan and I
say this only slightly tongue and cheek.
As I mentioned you earlier, there's no
better indicator of uh economic success
success in America than having college
degree. Maybe being an air, I don't
know, but other than that is college
degree. So they are the crystallization
of privilege. That is the most
privileged population in the United
States. So seize all the university
endowments, distribute them as
reparations to the descendants of
American slaves as and then you have the
problem solved.
>> Okay. Only slightly tongue and cheek.
>> Only slightly tongue and cheek.
>> Now, who do you think that will make
hate? Who?
>> I don't know about hate, but if you're
promising black Americans,
>> uh, sorry, African-Americans
specifically, not blacks. If you're for
Jamaica, sorry, Kla Harris, you don't
get this money. If you're an
African-American and then you're this,
you know, uppidity white college kid,
those two are butting heads because
you're saying, I'm taking that money
from Harvard, giving it to you
>> and you want them butting heads. Why
those groups?
>> Because I think those two are m big
coalition parts of the coalition and
they have very little in common in any
sense. It's just kind of this historical
accident. And I think it would be very
easy to cuz you have cuz these kind of
college kids are very um uh entitled and
I did two books with the comedian DL
Hugley uh from he's one of the kings of
comedy and one of the things he talks
about is this kind of Malcolm X idea
where you have this kind of white elite
condescension and anyone who's black
knows that tone of voice where that that
college kid that white woman talks to
them as if they're talking to a dog. Oh
my god, I love your hair. that's so
cool. And it's just like they know what
you're doing and you think you're being
friendly, but you're being absurdly
racist and patronizing and you're just
trying to mask your discomfort or your
position that you're here, they're
there, and you're talking down to this
fellow human being. So, uh, and it's
even the issue in minority communities,
uh, you know, Spanish communities as
well, like the people who didn't even
finish high school or who just have a
GED or college a high school diploma and
then someone goes off to some bougie
place and comes home. This is a huge
issue already. Um, it's the same thing
with like first generation, first
generation immigrants. they go to
school, they look at mom and dad in
their backward ways like in the
motherland and it's kind of this kind of
interf family uh sense of strife. So
that I think would be a very organic uh
uh mechanism to turn those two groups
against each other.
>> I'll take uh a lot of tongue and cheek
on that one. I get the point.
>> Now one thing that that
>> tongue and cheek is about the
reparations. It's not about the seizing
the endowments.
>> Yeah, that's fair. Now one thing that
>> can I say one more last thing?
>> Of course. A lot of people have heard me
say this and gone after me and said,
"You call yourself an anarchist. How are
you going to defend? You're such a
hypocrite. You're sitting here defending
the government, seizing all these
endowments. How can you say that?" And I
go, "You know what I say? I don't care.
That's very direct."
>> That's I don't care.
>> Yeah. I I imagine in that hypothetical
that is uh it is a solution to a
problem, not necessarily your preferred
method of governance.
>> That's right. Yeah, perfectly said.
Yeah.
>> Okay. So, it does get at like all of
these different groups, subgroups in the
world. I feel like you mentioned James
Burnham before. So, reading that book,
The Mchavelians, made me realize that
once you can't control the narrative,
all bets are off.
>> That's right.
>> And I think it's going to be one of the
biggest changes in society is literally
all throughout human history, even
including the printing press and all
that, um, it's still been controllable.
you could more or less create the
illusion of this is the right thing, the
true thing to think.
>> That's gone.
>> And there's recently,
>> yeah, very recently, there's a sense of
chaos, my word, in all of that.
>> Uh, so I'm very curious like I have a
you can think of them as calibrating
questions. So what do you think who
killed Charlie Kirk for instance? what
given how many narratives are beginning
to spring up around that, how do you
parse that?
>> So I I'll answer I'll give you the long
version. I'll give you the short
version. In 1901, Leon Shalosh shot
William McKinley in Buffalo, right? And
he gets up and I recount this also in my
book, The White Bill. He gets up and he
goes, "I was radicalized by Emma
Goldman." And she's like, "Oh, fuck."
And Emma, he had been hanging around
anarchist circles and they, this is
1901, they thought he was a fed cuz he
was so weird and no one knew who he was.
Like, who is this guy? He's something's
off with him. He's, he must be a fed.
So, she goes on the lamb and by the way,
I recently won an auction, the autopsy
drawing of his brain, uh, and to the
telegrams when McKinley was dying and
then we died and they're framed hanging
in my house. So she's on the lamb cuz
the argument was the president was just
shot. Clearly there is this big
anarchist conspiracy or movement or cell
that decided to take McKinley down.
What's even funnier Goldman gets caught
and is arrested and she goes, "I
sympathize with Leon and like President
McKinley is an idiot and and I want to
thank the cops for arresting me. uh
they've done more to recruit people to
anarchism than anything I've done in my
lifetime. So it's like I don't care
about the president. I side with the
assassin. F the police. So she was
really a badass. And they were people
were out for blood. I mean he died of
course. And it's like and they had
nothing to pin her on because she had
nothing to do with it. It was just a
crazy madman. I think we all look for uh
um there has to be this is in any
circumstance. This is one of the reasons
many people believe in God. I'm not
saying they're wrong to do it, but it's
like people have this need for a sense
of order and control.
>> Yeah.
>> And I think we know who did it. I think
this idea, this Israel derangement
syndrome where anything bad happens as a
result of Israel, it's like, let's
suppose it was Israel, right? First of
all, uh why wouldn't they just destroy
him if they're all powerful? Put CP on
his computer. Why wouldn't the killer be
have some the manifesto would be the big
one? have a manifesto that's that says
they're from Hamas or so Hamas or
something like that, you know, so on and
so forth. I had a tweet that I haven't
sent out and I'll say it to you and it
is so powerful in its chaos that I'm
scared to deploy it and I'm going to
reveal it on the show. You ready? It's
the first time I've I've thought of
something where I'm like this might be
too much even for me. Whoa.
>> Ready?
I want to reply to one of these people
and say, "When will you admit
that Kla Harris won the election and
Israel stole it for Donald Trump?" And
then you have to watch their brains
scramble
and and so I I will say it to you. I I'm
not tweeting it out.
>> Not ready for that.
>> Not ready for that. Yeah. That is uh one
of my other calibrating questions is
what do you make of the phenomenon.
>> But one more thing just to the Charlie
point nowhere on the political spectrum
is Charlie Kirk public enemy number one.
>> Like if you had a list whoever you were
of people who were like if I got rid of
god forbid got rid of this person you
know things would be great. No one had
him there. He's not your guy. That's
another reason besides the many many
other reasons why this is so nightmarish
and horrific.