Kind: captions
Language: en
Nick Fuentes and Piers Morgan collide
over whether Hitler was very effing cool
or not. Japan's economic troubles
continue a pace as [music] debt
threatens to finally engulf their entire
economy. China fires rhetorical shots at
Japan about accepting that they're a
defeated country as tensions between
them both continue to [music] rise. XAI
plans to redefine the size and scope of
what an IPO is so they can build [music]
data centers in space and Australia has
made it illegal for children under 16 to
be on social media. Nick Fuentes was
talking to Piers Morgan. But before we
jump into the actual interview, I have
to play this edit cuz I think this is
like the clip of the year when I found
it.
>> How can you [music] call it a movement
when you have no motion? You can't call
it a movement cuz you have no motion.
[music] NONE OF THESE [ __ ] have motion
except for me.
>> The edits,
>> none of them have motion except for me.
>> Um, the fact that he d he says the
n-word and uses it with a a feel about
that yet. Um, really?
>> I don't know how I feel about that.
>> You're not like 100% opposed.
>> Nick is a troll and we're going to talk
about that with the Piers Morgan
episode. But there is something to your
point of the youth. He has captured
something that I think a lot of
Republicans thought Charlie Kirk had,
thought Trump had, thought it was a
manosphere of the podcast. But we're
starting to realize, no, this is an
entirely different ethos of people. And
for some reason, he's not going away.
He's been banned. He's been ridiculed.
He's been quote unquote uh uh
reprimanded, condemned. He'd been
disavowed. He's been told not to play
with the the grown-up Republicans. But
yet, he doesn't He's still on Tucker.
He's still on Steven Crowder. He's still
on Pierce Morgan. What's your take on
Nick Fuentes and how he has been so
electric in the movement?
>> Um, I think he sums up his own position
very well, which is we're done clutching
our pearls. We being especially young
white men, but I think young men in
general, and I remember watching this
and Douglas Murray just really had
clarity on this. Uh, shout out to
Douglas Murray, man. And he said,
"Listen, if you keep bashing
white men and saying that whiteness is
bad, it's some sort of original sin, I
guarantee you what's going to happen is
they are going to band together. They
are going to start thinking of
themselves as white first." And you do
not want people grouping up based on
being white first. And and I think that
holds true of any race, PS, by the way.
But um
>> that's exactly what's happening. And so
this is a psychological principle. If
you beat me up and tell me that I'm bad,
bad bad for insert trait that I can't
change and then I run into somebody else
who has that same trait and I know
they've been treated exactly the way
that I've been treated, like all of a
sudden I'm going to be like, "Hold on,
we're going to glom on." And if there
are millions of us, like, bro, this is a
bad strategy. It was a dumb idea when
they did it. It's a dumber idea now that
they see what's happening and they're
continuing to double down. That's so
dumb. The youth is always going to take
over. Do you really want them to take
over out of bitterness and aggression? I
would put forward no. That's a terrible
[ __ ] idea. So, nonetheless, here we
are. And I don't know what they thought
the endgame was. that they were really
just going to be able to um feminize
every man, get every white person to
back the [ __ ] off and sit down and shut
up. Like that is a dumb [ __ ]
strategy. It doesn't work with anybody.
Every group is going to rise up. And by
the way, whites are only like 8% of the
global population. So this is not like
you look around and all you just see is
a sea of white people. It it is this is
a legitimate minority that will have
minority vibes that will band together.
see themselves as white first and cause
all kinds of problems. I think it is a
really stupid idea. So, am I at all
surprised by his rise to popularity? I
was when it happened. I won't lie. But
now, as I look back and math it, I'm
like, "Yeah,
this is precisely what Douglas Murray
was trying to warn us about."
>> All right, let's jump into his um
interview with Piers. The The thing
about Nick that I think gets him in
trouble is not his populism. It's not
what he's rooting for. It's not even his
political stance. It's that he belittles
things that I think are more important
or or sacred than people have. And this
is going to the Hitler is cool thing.
Um, but let's go into his thoughts on
women for a second and maybe this can
kind of color where he comes from and
how he became the person that he is.
>> Just to clear up one of the many
theories about you. I have no idea what
the answer is and you haven't got to
answer, but are you actually attracted
to women?
>> I am attracted to women.
>> You're not gay.
No, but I will say that women are very
difficult to be around.
>> Okay.
>> So, there's that.
>> And do you think they should have the
right to vote?
>> I do not. No, absolutely not.
>> They should stay at home.
>> Well, yeah. Absolutely.
>> So, basically, you're just a misogynist
old dinosaur, aren't you? For a for a
young guy. I mean, I know I'm the
boomer. I know I'm the boomer here, but
actually you're a 27year-old dinosaur,
aren't you? Aren't you, Nick Fuentes?
All women. All women are annoying.
>> Appears it is worse.
>> All women grow old. They all get fat.
Says the guy. Have you ever had sex?
>> No. Absolutely not.
>> Wow. Says the guy who's never got laid
>> here. I would have never thought to ask
that question.
>> Yeah.
>> I was shocked when he was like, "No."
>> What? Dude, uh, this this may be the
part of the young male experience that I
am most confused by. I remember being
like 14 and it hit me one day and I was
like, "Wait, I'm one day going to put my
penis in a vagina. Like, this is going
to be [ __ ] wild." And I couldn't have
been more excited about it.
[clears throat]
>> I I was legitimately giddy at the
thought that one day I was actually
going to do that. And now it doesn't
like it was I won't say allconsuming but
damn a lot of my high school was
oriented around uh relationships. Now I
was not good with women. I think I've
been abundantly clear about that. But
were they an obsession? Was I trying?
Yes. Very aggressively. And so for him
to be like
I don't it's it is a bad frame of
reference to have adopted. I'm not
saying that I can't walk people through
the steps that have led us here, but it
is a very bad frame of reference to
adopt, to be closed off, to uh lump all
women together as if they are some
monolithic body. Uh to think that
while women are very different, and I
certainly understand that there can be
frustrations to cohabitating certainly
with a woman because they view the world
so differently. Uh but when you think of
them as a partner, unbelievable things
unlock. You just have to have very good,
I call them rules of engagement, uh, so
that you're not driving each other crazy
all the time. But it's weird to me that
he is
just so nonchalant. I How old is he?
>> 27.
>> Wow, bro. That is
>> like he's making money at this point.
So,
>> oh, he is voluntarily celibate. Make no
mistake. Like, this is not a kid that
can't get laid. He's good-looking. He's
very charismatic. And boys and girls, if
you were confused, women go for charisma
before they go for just like rugged good
looks. And if you put together charisma,
fame, and money, like there are a litany
of women that would sleep with this kid.
And so he is thousand% staying celibate
by choice, which is very hard for me to
understand. I I guess the thing about me
is similar to you, there is this
northstar, at least I was growing up,
that you kind of go down two paths where
it's like I need to become the best
person I can be so that way I can then
increase my value in the sexual
marketplace so that way I can get laid,
get a girl, have a family. Or the other
thing was like, okay, I already look
good. I'm going to just get a girl then.
So I feel like as a young man, those are
your two options. Either get better to
get a girl or just get a girl. So the
fact that he is 27, he has rose in
popularity and he also is voluntarily
celibate. Like what is that north star
then? Maybe is that where the hate is
coming from? What what are you using?
What are you doing with your time? And I
know that that sounds very trivial and
there's probably women in their chat
rolling their eyes right now, but like
seriously as a driver for men that is a
incentive to become better.
>> It is the incentive to become better.
There is nothing higher. Men will send
themselves into war when they no longer
believe that they have mating
opportunities. M
>> they will go kill and risk dying to get
laid. So anybody that thinks that there
won't be problems that come from men
ejecting out of that system or out of
their [ __ ] minds. And the only way
that um men are going to be able to
sustain this for the long term is I
guess access to pornography. Certainly
AI and sex bots will um give an outlet
for that extremely intense impulse that
is buried very deeply in the brains of
men. So unless we've got like a m
microlastics problem that is manifesting
as they legitimately do not care like
it's changed their brain wiring uh
there's no way this one does not start
to become problematic for sure and even
if western men completely eject out of
this I guarantee that other men around
the world absolutely will not and so
this is a fundamental biological drive
>> uh it manifests as a need in the same
way that hunger or uh thirst manifests.
So yeah, you unless again literally it's
been destroyed by environmental toxins
or something. Uh there's no universe in
which this does not um rebound in some
horrible way either where people that
aren't having sex, they just cease to
exist obviously because they're not
procreating and the people that are
procreating just take over the world and
this is a momentary blip. uh or there's
a big rebound effect and people realize
oh my god like we have allowed something
so moronic to happen because I obviously
understand that one of the critiques of
the way that I talk is going to be that
Tom is from a different era women were
different back then uh and I will just
tell you the frame of reference layer
for sure there's no doubt if I found
myself 21 today that I would have to
take a very different approach but the
reality is that if you're tied to ground
truth and you encounter somebody that's
at a um cultural layer, then you can get
beyond that. That becomes very easy if
you have a sufficient level of um game,
shall we call it? Like once I understood
how to truly be myself and I had no fear
of loss and I could approach somebody
with confidence and I could have some
swagger, the fact that I was able to
have interesting conversations was
ultimately what got me laid. One of my
favorite stories, um, I had been
sleeping with a woman. I'd never been
able to give her an orgasm. And then,
um, one night she saw me be really like
talk for the first time about something
I was deeply passionate about. And so I
clicked over into that zone. And the
next time we had sex, she had an orgasm.
And I was like, that is wild. It It is
nothing about the sex. It's I finally
clicked over into her mind where she now
found me far more interesting. And I was
like, "God, I've got to remember that."
And I remember my mom giving me the best
advice ever about sex. She said,
"Remember, women have to trust you to
have an orgasm." And I was like, "What?"
Like, that is so weird for a guy. Um, so
once you begin to understand like all of
those things, even in a time now where
clearly I would find myself in a much
worse position than I was in terms of
they can just swipe on to the next
person, it's always on to the next. It's
some women trying to take advantage of
you to get a free meal. blah blah blah.
But there are defenses to all this
stuff. So, the person uh that this was
probably will never hear this, but I had
one of my employees um say to me that uh
they oh god, what was the specific
thing? Oh, uh they had Oh god, how do I
say this without ratting this person
out? uh they were creating something and
they felt that that something was not
being recognized because the when they
created it, they have to like go put it
in a basket just to try to make this as
abstract as possible. They had to put it
into a basket and once it got put into
the basket, it no longer resembled the
hard work that they had done. It was,
you know, getting battered about by the
basket. And I was like, I'm like, there
are ways around that basket. And the
second that you're saying it's somebody
else's fault, um, you're missing an
opportunity to take control and get a
better result. So, if you know that the
basket creates problems for you, then
solve for not needing to put it in the
basket. But don't just go, "Ah, well, I
do all this hard work and then I put it
in the basket and it just all breaks."
Like, that is a terrible way to move
through life. So, if young men are
looking at this and saying, "Ah, the
basket is ruining my chances." I'm just
saying, "Oh, cool." Then find a way
around the basket. So, um, there is
always a solution.
>> Yeah. There was literally somebody in
Discord who was talking about that who
was like, "I hate the Scott Galloway
interview. He only blames men. It's
women. The marketplace has changed.
There are gold diggers. They're this.
They're this. It's this." And he gave me
a whole diet tribe about how women are
the worst people in the whole wide
world. And I was like, "Women didn't all
of a sudden become the worst people in
the whole wide world. Like they're back
in like my the best example I always use
is like rappers because the first rapper
ever did like Sugar Hill Gang. Everybody
loves that song. The third verse is from
somebody else. He stole that verse, went
into the studio while they were
recording. He said, "Hey, can I hop on?"
and recited somebody else's lyrics and
ended up getting like a platinum record.
It was like this whole thing. If you
think about it, when he I'm the T, he
spells somebody else's name. He doesn't
even spell his name. People don't even
like people even do that. So, it's like
all you had to do was just rhyme words
and you can become a celebrity. Rappers
nowadays, you have to produce. You have
to be a content creator. You have to
rap. You have to also be a fashion
mogul. You also have to have a social
media following. You have to do five
different layers of things to be as
competitive or as relevant as back in
the day. And I think that same thing is
true with the protein bars. If I want to
make a protein bar company, I can't just
be like, "Hey guys, no sugar,
>> right?
>> There's a thousand no sugar bars now. It
needs to be no sugar in organic and this
and it needs to come from Jesus." Like
there's all these other layers that now
need to be added. So for some reason,
>> we got to launch that bar, Drew. The
only thing that could get [laughter] me
back in
>> the bar by Jesus.
>> Seriously. So we just think with dating
is like what? I have money. That's it.
That's the only requirement that
>> you have to be a little bit more
evolved. You have to also catch up with
the market. And I think we get too
caught up in the it's the basket's fault
versus no, how can you where can you
shine that make you not need the basket
and that expansive energy again?
>> Yeah. There's uh just one more story to
back this up. So you've got Kanye makes
I forget which song. The one that he was
saying he wanted to compete with Sexy
Back. He was like, "Oh, my girlfriend at
the time is a little too into Justin
Timberlake." So he writes a song,
becomes a hit. I forget which one it is.
And he says, "I hear it in the club and
it's muddy." No, he doesn't go [ __ ]
clubs don't know how to build acoustics.
He goes to like every producer he can
find to figure out how to make his beats
sound like sexybacks sounds in the club.
Ultimately finds himself at Timberland's
door who did it and then Timberland
showed him how to do it. But I always
thought that was brilliant. That's the
right way to respond. Oh [ __ ] this
thing that I made that is objectively
amazing in this environment, it has a
problem. So how do I go and solve that
problem? And that is how I would advise
people to look at it. And listen, there
are going to be some women that you do
just write off. They're too far gone. Uh
there's not enough interesting there.
I'm not saying you bump into the first
person that is female and you go, "Cool,
I'm going to make it work with this
person." You may have a rapid filtering
mechanism where it's like, yeah, you're
filtering out 80 85% of people and
you're narrowing it down to just the
people that haven't been completely
captured by that ideology that don't
have a belief that it's just always on
to the next. They are going to be out
there. And I'm not saying that it's not
more work. I'm just saying the way to
approach life in general is, oh, there
is a problem. I'm going to take complete
and total responsibility for that
problem and I'm going to find a solution
because unless it violates the laws of
physics, there is a way around this
problem. And for people that approach
life like that, then it is incredible
the opportunities that will open before
you. If you run into a problem and you
stop, which is the vast majority of
humanity, then it's like life sucks
because you're going to run into
problems all the time. But if when you
run into a problem, you go like roll up
your sleeves, you get kind of excited
because you're like, "Oh, cool." Like,
"I'm gonna find a way over, under,
through, around, whatever, but I am
going to solve this problem." We'll get
back to the show in just a second, but
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let's get back to the show.
>> So we talked about his sexual
orientation. Let's talk about something
that's actually like matters. This is
his comment about the Hitler is cool.
You say that Hitler was very [ __ ]
cool. Are you joking or do you actually
think he was very [ __ ] cool? The the
most genocidal monster of uh the last
150 years.
>> Yeah. The the thing is my generation,
we're just done with the pearl
clutching. You know,
>> you might be, but then your generation
hasn't gone through what Danny
Finkelestein's family went through. So
maybe maybe the pearl clutching has a
way to go for families who whose family
members were murdered.
>> Yeah, we we got all that. We you know me
me mom me m like we're you know I don't
even know who this person is. Why is
this person talking to me? This old
British guy is saying me mom got killed
by Hitler and
>> he doesn't find it funny when you say
Hitler's very [ __ ]
>> I don't care. I know you don't care.
That's fine. You don't have to care but
he does care.
>> Does that guy care about America? Does
that guy care about me and my country
and my family? No, that guy.
>> This is the great tragedy of uh
generational gaps.
>> Uh you don't feel like the other side
understands you at all. Um yeah, so that
sad. The Hitler is cool thing to me is
just stupid.
>> Um I think Nick explains the point like
he certainly is able to articulate
exactly what it is that they find cool.
He does um I think a better job in
another clip that I saw of him where
he's like it's the cuts all the like
hypy super cuts of uh Hitler leading
armies and all that stuff, but it it is
um it's the same way that I feel when
Nick talks about being a big fan of
Stalin. Um these are mistakes that
history makes over and over and just an
ungodly number of people die. So having
some mental defenses against those
things is very shrewd. Like there are
things that the immune system should
respond to. Now I'll admit we've had a
cultural immune system for the last 30
or 40 years that has responded to gluten
as if it's a brain parasite. And that's
dumb. Uh but that doesn't mean that
there aren't actual brain parasites. it
doesn't mean that there aren't actual
things that the immune system should be
responding to. And so when I hear him
talk, it's like, okay, we had an
overactive immune system that did really
bad things and so now just shut off the
entire immune system. Everybody's cool.
Like it's funny. It's hilarious. H look
because of my time with, and by the way,
I hate it when people say that um Hitler
was the biggest um progenerator of
genocide that we've do. Do do people not
know who Mao is? Like, do people not
know who Stalin is? It that one is
traumatic. There's something about the
Hitler was horrific. He's one of the
Mount Rushmore of monsters. Let me be
very clear on my stance on Hitler. Uh,
but man, people just do not seem to know
that Mao and Stalin existed. Um, or if
they do, they seem to think that Hitler
somehow is outpacing them. Hitler burned
really bright, really fast, and he ran a
PR campaign for his [ __ ] Uh, and we
like knock like you lose, we take over
your [ __ ] So, we got all the paperwork
so we could like really point to it. But
dude, Mao and Stalin were orders of
magnitude more efficient at killing. Uh,
and it's just getting lost by history,
which is why I feel the way that I feel
about Mandani. So, let's jump over
across the Pacific and head over to the
Asia, China, Taiwan, South Korea
triangle, rectangle, isosles.
>> Isosles that won the award for word I
did not expect. When's the last time you
heard about it isles? It was such a big
deal in high school.
>> High school. [laughter]
>> We cared so much about isosles.
>> Um, okay. We talked about Japan and
China, like sharing words, trading
barbs. Um, it all started at the G20
summit. China and Japan didn't have a
meeting. When they talked to the
Japanese new PM, she said, "If something
happened to Taiwan, it'll be an
existential threat for us and we would
have to join." China didn't like that.
China said, "Watch what you say. Um,
don't be talking out your the side of
your mouth." And then Japan was like,
"All right, it's cool. I ain't going to
say nothing, but just know I'm not
playing that game." And then China was
like, "Oh, we conveniently now have
military exercises we need to do right
around y'all."
>> And then Japan was like, "Wait a second.
If y'all do do something to us,
America's going to jump in." And Trump
act like he didn't hear that cuz he was
like, "I'm in Venezuela. I don't know
what you're talking about." And then now
China has accelerated those military
exercises. So much so that they even
locked on to a Japanese uh plane as they
were kind of exploring those waters.
Once again, when Japan condoned China,
China foreign minis uh the China foreign
minister said something that I think was
hilarious. He said, "On the eve of the
80th uh anniversary of the end of World
War II, Japan, quote unquote, as a
defeated nation, should act with greater
caution." So, I think that that is
hilarious. As in like, "Hey, bro, I
think you should just remember where you
came from so that way you don't have to
go back there."
>> Yeah.
>> For somebody so close, that's the
equivalent of Canada being like, "Hey,
America, like Civil War was a couple
weeks ago. If you keep asking, there's
going to be a new North and South beef."
I feel like we wouldn't respond clearly
to that. Right now, Japan and China
relations seem to be out ahead. What's
your take on the region? I haven't even
brought in the Taiwan of it all yet, but
just so far it just seems like they're
trading uh quibs back and forth.
>> I don't think there's anything real
here. I don't think that we have to
worry about something really getting out
of hand. However, when you've got
nations that have the kind of historical
beef that they have, uh don't think that
these are just like passing words of one
sort of unhinged guy in um Beijing. Like
this this is real historical beef. These
guys hate each other. So, I think Japan
will ratchet up military spending. I
think they are going to take this very
seriously. But I also think that Japan
is in the middle of real economic
trouble. And it is entirely possible
that over the next decade or so that we
watch Japan really start to slide into
um economic problems and win countries
slide into economic problems. They can
be a backwater for a hundred years. Like
this isn't a thing that you pull out of
very quickly. So do I think China is
going to conquer Japan? No. Because I
don't think they want that kind of
smoke. Um, will they force Japan to sit
down and shut the [ __ ] up if they feel
like it? Yes. And what that would take
would be China being economically strong
enough to move on Taiwan and Japan being
economically weak enough that they can't
really mount a military um like to be a
big enough problem for China. So, I
think in that case, China would
understand there's no need for us to go
in and conquer um Tokyo. We're just
going to show them diplomatically on the
world stage. They're completely
irrelevant. We will humiliate them at
every turn. And if they're not
economically strong enough to deal with
it, [ __ ] them. That's basically how this
will play out. But going and conquering
a nation, unless they have resources
that you really want, that is a lot of
headache, dude. Cuz they're going to
blow stuff up constantly. They're going
to kill your soldiers constantly. Like
they'll just gorilla warfare that [ __ ]
>> And listen, Japan isn't who Japan used
to be. But don't forget that
Genghaskhan, the Mongol army, I'm I'm
not sure if Genghask was still running
it at that time, but the Mongol army
attempted to invade Japan twice and lost
both times. It's like the only place
they couldn't conquer. So, when the
Japanese are properly motivated, they
defend the homeland. So, that's not who
I'd want to be trying to sit on top of
uh and keeping calm. So yeah, again I
think the big concern here is that Japan
ends up destabilizing itself
economically and just just goes
backwards. Um they're already going
economically backwards over the last 40
years. They have. Uh so that scares me,
the escalating of that and then that
reverberating around the rest of the
world. The real thing to watch out for
is China moving on Taiwan, reunifying,
and that calling into question whether
the US is going to step in or not. Now,
the US is already undoing its
international reputation. So, I don't
know if we have the incentive to back
them up the way that the um you know,
historical agreement would lead you to
believe that we're going to. It's
possible that we actually pull out of
NATO. I don't know that it's likely, but
it's certainly possible. And if we do
that, we send the same signal that we
would send by not backing up uh Taiwan,
which is if you think you're our ally,
if you don't have relevance to us right
now,
>> don't count on it.
>> Backing out of NATO is pretty much
telling the EU, you're on your own. You
got to boss up and do your own thing.
Like,
>> so basically what happens is World War
II crazy uh Germany is doing its thing.
We team up with truly one of the
greatest mass murderers of all time,
Stalin, and uh we win. And Russia pays a
huge price that is often by Americans
completely overlooked. But Russia pays a
huge price. They just throw an ungodly
number of people at stopping the German
uh march in Stalenrad. And after the
war, we then divvy up essentially
Europe. And
they then reveal themselves to be just
absolute monsters. And now it's like,
hold on a second. Like, Russia is not
playing by Western rules at all. And so
Russia starts getting very powerful.
Europe starts getting terrified. And so
we, as the big brother, walk in and go,
listen, we got you. If Russia ever moves
on you, we will [ __ ] Russia up. We,
Article 5 guarantees, we will come and
we will protect you.
>> And so we end up winning the Cold War.
All is well. Now, obviously, it's a very
different world, but that like we're the
world's big brother. We unfortunately
have printed our way and debted our way
into just not realistically having the
appetite for that anymore because for us
to pay for it would be just continuing
the trend that we're on now, which is
inflating our currency into
meaninglessness. Uh, so we know that
that would cost a ton of money and cause
us to print just ungodly amounts and
then the populace would not stand for
it. So, um, yeah, that's where that we
are almost certainly going to send the
world that signal anyway. Uh, it could
happen over Ukraine. I need to look more
deeply at what's going on right now, but
it looks like we've got Zalinsky killing
the peace process, Europe wanting the
peace process dead. This could be the
perfect time for Trump to be like,
"Cool, you guys wanna do your thing. Do
your thing. I'm over here trying to stop
this." Uh Putin acknowledges, "I'm
trying to stop it. You guys are trying
to prolong this. All right. Well, if
you're going to act uh without us, then
you're going to deal with the
consequences." And so, he would have the
political cover that he needed. He's
still going to be called a coward.
People are still going to say that like
we betrayed our agreement with them, but
he'll have enough cloud cover, but
between
just so many Americans calling for
America first, more people now calling
for America only. Him trying
legitimately, it seems, to actually end
the war and that being rejected. So,
it's like, hey, we we are willing to be
a sensible partner. We are not willing
to put troops on the ground. I think
everybody understands and I think that
that would be very popular. Uh, and so
if I'm Taiwan and that happens, I'm
like, uhoh. Like, how relevant are we to
America right now? And if not relevant
enough given the power of China, uh,
odds that America does anything other
than be like, "Hey, we got a ton of
weapons if you want to buy some. Uh, we
really wish you guys well. Sending
thoughts and prayers." Um, but us
rolling up on the beaches of Taiwan to
block China,
not going to happen.
>> Yeah. Um, I thought war was good for the
economy. Like it
>> war is great for the economy. Uh, if you
win.
>> So if you're just sending something
over. So like here's how war here's how
World War II was phenomenal for America.
Phenomenal.
>> All the countries that are getting
bombed are all in Europe. Not other than
Pearl Harbor. Literally nothing happens
to the US. We're just out of the way. It
doesn't matter. Nobody's coming for us.
Um, we also become essentially the
world's gun shop. And so we're selling
weapons like crazy to Europe. And Europe
very quickly realizes that, oh, we're
not going to be able to win this war
without the Americans being willing to
send all this. We were an industrial
powerhouse. And so now we go, hey, your
cars, they're selling. I'm not saying
they're not selling, but
>> let's switch that over to tanks, to
airplanes, to boats.
>> Same factories. Now we need double,
triple the output. You're making money
hand over fist, guaranteed contracts.
You got four, five, six years of
conflict. And so it's like, man, can you
So this is how Disney, by the way,
survived. Disney made cartoons for the
war effort.
>> So it was like anybody that had a
government contract was going to make it
through that period well.
>> And so it's guaranteed revenue. you're,
you know, you've got, you got the
biggest, deepest pockets in the world
telling you like, yeah, don't lose
workers right now. Like whether you've
got things coming off the line or not,
just keep your workforce. So, paying the
money for all that, like it's that is
your wet dream as a business owner is
that you've got a patron who's just
like, "No matter what, keep max
capacity." Mhm.
>> So, um, that ends up creating that boom
and also it drew women into the
workforce. So, men are off getting paid
to be at war, also getting the GI bill
that they're going to leverage once they
get home. Women come into the workforce,
they're now getting paid. And so, it
ends up being economically amazing.
Plus, the world now owes us a ton of
money. And we've come out of this in
really great shape, owning essentially
all the gold, which allows us afterwards
to become the world's reserve currency.
Now, wars can be terrible.
Iraq, Afghanistan, like you're losing a
ton of money, uh, and you're having
nothing to show for it. So, that you're
like your defense contractors are still
making a lot of money and they love it.
But in terms of being good for the
general economy, not so much.
>> Yeah. Let's dive into like what Japan's
ales are because I'm seeing nearly low
interest rates, inflated money. They've
been pumping currency and it seems like
they've been I don't know, I don't want
to say surviving, but how have they been
able to keep up the sherad?
>> So, part of it is that they have a
culture where everybody just agrees that
um we're not going to do things that are
bad for the homeland. And so, they don't
sell their debt to foreign purchasers.
They sell their debt to the Japanese.
And then they go, "Listen, you're
holding a lot of debt. Super precarious,
but we need you to buy more." And so
then people do their patriotic duty and
they buy more. And then they don't want
to dump their stuff back onto the market
because they know that that would create
a problem. So that's part very much an
oversimplification, but that's part of
why Japan has been able to rack up
instead of 130% where everybody else
tears themselves apart. Because
remember, when you cross the 130% debt
uh to GDP ratio, it's not like anything
mechanistically breaks. It's that people
get mad because the wealth inequality is
going so crazy for a very simple [ __ ]
reason. Most people do not understand
assets, so they don't own assets. And
assets are inflation resistant. So, as
your country prints a ton of money, the
rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
And if I could just get everybody to
understand that basic mechanism and get
everybody into assets, then the world
would look very different. But alas, you
don't. And so you get the wealth
inequality. The wealth inequality is
what creates the anxiety and the
bitterness. That's what manifests as
revolution. That's why you're not
conquered from the outside. You fall
apart from the inside just because you
have so much infighting. People are so
bitter. They hate each other so much.
The left and the right just literally
want to kill each other. And so,
[snorts]
yeah, you just weaken yourself. Now,
we're in the unique position of not only
tearing ourselves apart from the inside,
but we're in Thusidity's trap. And so,
that makes it worse because you also
have an external enemy that can create
problems for you.
>> God, it's so funny how um so I bumped
into a guy in New York, former guest on
the show. I'll laugh if he listens to
this. Uh, and he was like, "Oh my god,
it's so good to see you. I really love
your content." Very doom and gloom. And
I was like,
"Do you want me to lie?" Like, I don't
know. It's like, listen, if I hadn't
gone down the path of economics, maybe I
never would have ended up here. Yeah.
>> Just to remind people how I ended up
doing economic content. COVID hits. I
had just like in the last few years had
a thousand employees who grew up in the
inner cities. They were I thought they
were all about to get wiped out. I
didn't know what money printing was. So,
I thought, "Oh my god, they're all going
to lose their jobs. This is going to be
terrible. I know and love them. I want
to see them do well. I'm like, in my
small way, what can I do? Uh, let me
make some content that will help them
understand how to buckle down
economically so that they can weather
this storm." Obviously, not thinking
only of them, but thinking of the tens
of millions of people that are just like
them. So, I'm like, "Cool, let me make
this content." Then, I start making that
content and I just kept finding like new
pieces of information. And I'm like,
"Wait, this does not work the way that I
thought this worked." And so, as I begin
to unravel that, you suddenly you have
the Scooby-Doo moment where you realize,
"Wait a second. Like, these politicians
are stealing." And so, that's when
you're like, "Hold on." Like, the
economy is not at all what I thought it
was. That investing money, certainly if
you've already made money, investing
money is like the most powerful thing
that you could pay attention to. And
then you just keep finding stat after
stat after stat about how
the sense of malaise that we have today
is all economic. And so anyway, I don't
know what else to say. It's like all of
this stuff is avoidable. And so I want
to talk openly about it to make sure
that we avoid it. It's avoidable
systemically at the level of society and
it's avoidable at the individual level.
So basically all of my deep dives go
something like this. Uh hey big problem.
This thing's about to happen. Future's
very uncertain. I don't know that we'll
be able to convince everybody. So, the
last section is always going to be what
you as an individual should do. Now,
keep in mind in 2025, at least until the
correction happened, I was up millions
of dollars. Like, investing is [ __ ]
real. Like, you can just make so much
money investing. It's wild. So, uh I get
it, people. It It is not an unwise way
to navigate the world to just assume
that everybody's a dirt baggage. Fine.
If if that's your guiding light, you're
going to look at me. You're going to be
very cynical. Uh, another way is to
remember I've been broke a lot longer
than I've been wealthy. Uh, that I
realized that by changing the set of
ideas in my head, I was able to make
myself wealthy. And because I like to
see other people succeed, I like to tell
people how to succeed. And then, by the
way, it also creates a multi-million
dollar company for me. So, yay, it's
like literally a win-winwin win-win. Um,
but I really do want to see individuals
get out from under the lunacy of a
system that is both sort of just dumb
and then second also has people that
understand precisely how the economy
works, precisely how to get money out of
the most vulnerable people at a systemic
level. And so if I can help people get
out of that, I will. [snorts]
>> Episode to that.
>> We'll be right back to the show. But
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>> All right, let's jump over to this
SpaceX IPO news. This is going to be
groundchanging, it seems like. Um, for
those that don't know, Elon announced
that SpaceX will IPO in 2026. But
something that we're that's getting a
lot of attention is its valuation. It's
estimated to be valued at $1.5 trillion.
That's 65x of value. That is not of
revenue. That is not a typo. Boeing
trades at.7, Lheed at 1.5. SpaceX is
demanding a multiple that never existed
in the aerospace ever. At the 1.5
trillion uh evaluation, Elon Mus stakes
become worth 630 billion. That means
that him that one man alone will be
worth will be more worth more than the
GDP of Sweden, Poland, and Belgium
combined. All the countries that Trump
wants people to come from.
>> So wild. Um, and the one thing that I
think jumps out to me as well is that
um, 8.5 million Americans already depend
on Starlink for internet. By IPO next
year, that number crosses 10 million. A
constellation of 7,600 satellites. 65%
of everything orbiting this planet right
now belongs to one company.
>> That is so insane. So, uh, as a PSA to
anybody out there, become an engineer.
Become an engineer. No, I'm not kidding.
Like when you can engineer. So first of
all, uh you are literally thinking up
from physics and
once you understand the rules of
something, this is really what I'm
trying to do with Kaizen. I want to
create a world that is built on rules so
that once the player understands the
rules, they can change the world. That's
true in real life. Once you understand
the rules, you can change the world. Uh
and that's what Elon is doing. And the
when people audit what makes him
successful, one of the things that
always comes back is that he stays close
to the engineer. So not only is he an
engineer himself, but he stays close to
the engineers in his company.
>> Uh and because people because money is
being printed, the people that
understand assets are flooding into
assets. And he is an engineer that is
able to build more things than any human
ever in human history. I believe that
that is just beyond true at this point.
Uh certainly the largest number of
consequential things. Um so now you've
got a scenario where you can seek refuge
from money printing in this sort of
once in a hundred years, once in 200
years kind of person in the public stock
markets. And so you get these just
completely unhinged valuations. uh when
you remember that when you get a 65x
what you're saying is we're going to
pull forward 65 years worth of revenue
at today's rates into the present
>> and that I mean he's about the only
person that's been able to execute at
that kind of level and actually make it
work just because he grows it so much
but this is basically people betting on
um space as the next frontier for data
centers and AI and it's like what's h
okay so Drew when I write a deep dive
like the one that's coming out on Monday
about um we have 900 days left of
capitalism.
>> Part of me is like, okay, this is uh
it's possible and therefore I don't feel
bad putting that in the headline, but
you know, is it a bit cheeky? Like, is
this really going to be more like five
or six years maybe? And I certainly
leave myself open to that. And then I
hear interviews like the one that you
just queued up and I start talking about
uh SpaceX getting a 65x on revenue now
because of data centers
in space [snorts] that this isn't a
crazy idea. This is something that is
going to happen. It's going to happen
very rapidly. I start going do we have
900 days? [laughter] And so I'm
>> with Elon going zero to 100 on the Tesla
customers in uh Memphis. How he just,
you know, built that like that. Who
knows?
>> There's that. There's also I forget what
company it was, but there's a company
that claims they've already done AGI.
Mhm.
>> Odds are probably not, but if they're
getting like a big enough step ahead
that it's worth putting out that press
release and you're not just going to
look like a clown in 60 days. Um, that
tells you that, okay, we may have just
taken another step function. Um, move
forward.
>> You've got the TPUs being created by
Google, which are proving to be
incredible. You've got, I think they're
called Black Weld chips that are coming
out from Nvidia in 2026. Those are
supposed to be like a leap forward from
where we're at now. So, it's like, oh
man, like the the changes really are
moving fast. You're normally limited by
material science. That tends to be the
thing that puts the brakes on this. But
when you've got Elon able to build these
like super coherent data centers that
lasers, the only thing that travels
faster than a laser through fiber optic
cable is a laser traveling through the
vacuum of space.
>> And so you've got Elon able to put
tonnage into space very very fast. Um,
you've got
that same guy building the largest, most
coherent data centers faster than
anybody by orders of magnitude, taking
it from like four or five years down to
like 18 months or something.
>> So, it might even be less than that. So,
it's like it's just
>> with with reusable rocket. So, he can
just be taxing them things up there,
>> which is how he's put 65% of the tonnage
into space. I mean, it's just it's
really really crazy. And so I I I'll
give everybody the mental framework that
I use. I still have anxiety about this
though. But so I'm I have a rule in my
life that I never stand still. That rule
has cost me millions of dollars and it's
made me hundreds of millions of dollars.
So it's like on balance
it's better, but like in the times where
it cost me a lot of money, I'm always
like, "Oh god, do I revisit this rule?"
Uh but anyway, I have a rule that I do
not stand still. Okay, so uh have rule
don't stand still. AI is coming at me
like a tsunami, but I still have this
rule that I don't stand still. And I
tried to address this in the upcoming
deep dive by saying, listen, I think
that we're going to go through this
crazy transition period, but you have to
invest today
>> because the future is unknowable.
>> So you've got to invest today.
Otherwise, I guarantee you're going to
get eaten by inflation. So, you've got
to invest today. You've got to invest in
what makes sense for today. Now, you
need an eye towards the future, but
you've got to do something today. So,
I'm building my video game. I've got
this target now of 23 months, obviously
going down every day. Uh, I feel very
comfortable that we'll be ready for
early release by that point,
but I don't know that video games will
be relevant at that point. And so it's
this really weird like as I try to track
where technology is going to be when I'm
ready to launch.
I'm like are people going to be
prompting games at that point? I don't
know. And so it is only that standing
still is the only way to guarantee that
you get hit by the truck. So I'd rather
be hit by the truck of yeah, I just
couldn't see the future clearly enough
and so fair enough. Um but I don't want
to be standing still. I highly encourage
people to formulate a similar thing
because being anxietyridden and standing
still. That's never the winning path. Um
but it is possible that 900 days from
now that capitalism doesn't really make
sense in the traditional sense. That um
the way that we think of technology
doesn't make any sense. Like I'll give
you an example. Um once agents become
real, you probably won't interface with
your computer.
your AI agent will interface with your
computer. And I could definitely see
that in the next three years where you
go from sitting at a computer like click
clacking, you know, call it 6 to 8 hours
a day to zero and you've just got a
thing in your ear that communicates to
your phone that probably won't be made
by Apple cuz those guys are [ __ ] AI
[ __ ] but made by somebody. You're
talking to it. It's talking back. The
conversations feel completely natural.
you're looking at the screen so you can
see that what you want done is actually
being done. You just say do this, move
that, tweak this. It's just doing it.
And um Google just launched a prototype
of their glasses.
>> It's connected to a puck. It's kind of
like the Apple Vision Pro, but like
>> glasses. Yeah,
>> they look a little awkward, but like if
they really offer a AR VR experience in
a glasses form factor and those are out
in 2026 by 2029.
It's just like it's really kind of crazy
to think how we might see 15 years worth
of normal advancement play out over the
next three. And again the only
assumption that I have to make for that
to be true is that AI doesn't asmtote.
Now that's a fancy word for it doesn't
hit a ceiling. And if you really can
simply add more chips and write more
efficient algorithms and it just keeps
getting smarter.
The world will be it won't be
incomprehensible in three years. Just
distribution chains and things like that
take too long. But the way that we
interface with our daily lives will be
radically different. And I know this is
one of my favorite subjects and I run
the risk of talking about it too much,
but at one point we had a hundred people
working on project Kaizen. We now have
like six.
>> I have one artist and I'll go in AI. I
me the CEO. I'll go in AI and I'll
create a character and I'll give it to
him and I'll say get this in the game
and I mean he can have an ugly version
of it in the game that day and call it a
week and it's like cool it's refined
it's working [snorts]
>> bro I went from a hundred people and it
taking like three months to like really
make a meaningful insertion into the
game
>> to I can do it in a day.
>> Yeah. three months 100 people to two
people and a day. That's in the last
four years.
Where are we in that's in the last three
years. Where are we in three years from
now? Like it's that that one is really
hard to wrap my head around.
>> I want to ask you about that too cuz I
think we're at the cusp of two things.
On one hand, we have the CEO of Scale
AI, Eddie Chen, saying that he's worried
about LLMs because they're turning into
social media companies, feedback loops,
algorithm. They're trying to keep you
typing and asking questions as long as
possible as opposed to solving novel
first world problems. But on the other
side, we have Sam Alman who put a code
red out on his company and said, "Forget
agents, forget ads. We need to beat
Google. We need to beat Google." And to
me, that is the start of every
Terminator movie, every AI like, "I'm
about to be broke. This is my whole
life. F it. AGI. It's not ready yet,
sir. We need a couple more. Forget
testing. It needs to go out live now.
And then it takes over. Like, you know
what I mean? So, it's it's
>> I know precisely what you mean.
>> Yeah. So, it's one of those things where
it's like,
>> what's that balance between they're
going to try to baby step it to maximize
the revenue for shareholders and make
the most money.
>> That was always they they may have
thought they were being honest because
they may have actually felt it at the
time, but those are not the incentives.
>> Game theory tells you the truth of the
human condition. And game theory says
any technology that promises an
advantage over others, it doesn't say
that part, it just says advantage. But
what it means is advantage over others
will be developed even recklessly.
So I'm just like,
>> God bless Elon for trying for whatever
five years to get the government to pay
attention. Remember, the vast majority
of people cannot understand complex
ideas. And then on top of that, they
don't have time even if they can
understand it. And then if they're a
politician, it's all about gain and
retain power. So that thing way off in
the distance that nobody understands
yet, does not matter. Even if it's like
Earth ending, I'll remind everybody that
when they were about to test the first
nuclear bomb, they knew there was a
nonzero chance that it would ignite the
entire atmosphere and kill every living
thing on the planet. And they did it
anyway. So um yeah, that AI is going to
be developed if not by you, by someone
else. And and so it's like the I hate to
be a sort of um fatalist about it, but I
am.
>> It's like it's not going to be stopped.
You might be able to slow it down here,
but you're not going to be able to stop
it everywhere, unfortunately. That that
that game is done. So now it just
becomes a question of cool. How do you
deal with the transition period? I'm not
a big believer that AI is going to have
uh the need to enslave us if it becomes
super intelligent. That's us I think
just painting the stuck in a body um
mired by evolution really everything was
tooth and claw but the AI is going to be
like
there's abundant resources everything
that we want to create we can create so
I don't know why like if we started to
[ __ ] with them like then maybe they
would neutralize us but anyway I can't
figure out I know that they will have an
alien intelligence so any guess that I
place upon it is going to be the guess
that's limited by my human cognition.
But anyway, I don't spend a lot of time
worrying about that. I spend a lot of
time worrying about how I make sure that
my life has meaning that I worry about a
lot. I don't see an escape from that.
That is hardwired in the human mind and
most people are going to implode. Now,
the good news is that I love Minecraft,
so I'm very self-directed.
>> Uh, so I won't need to be on Rails, but
the transition will be hard. I'll have
to fall in love with something new. And
while I'm capable of it, it's never the
thing I want to do.
>> Yeah. There's like an emotional impulse.
I was talking to like a buddy of mine
who was just like, I just want to say f
all computers, f all technology. I just
want to go grab a wrench and be a
mechanic. Like I want to just opt out of
the AI technology and be the master of
the atom world and kind of let the uh
software world kind of eat itself for a
little bit.
>> Yep.
>> Is that the right impulse if you were
talking to a 25-year-old or something?
>> Not the right impulse.
>> But you know what I mean?
is our opportunity. Maybe not impulse,
but like
>> cuz right now this tsunami is scaring a
lot of people.
>> And to your point of not standing still,
there are people right now they're at
the beach and they're like, "Okay, that
wave is way bigger and it's way closer
than the last one. My car is right here,
but I know I can't drive out here, but
there's this like they're trying to
figure out what their next move should
be, and they're kind of stuck on that
beach.
>> Would that be at least the correct next
step? What do you think that There there
really are only four paths before us.
>> And so the path that he's choosing is
basically the all human all the time
path.
>> So path number one is
>> um do drugs. Path number two is you
become the like this is just about
humans for me and I'm going to go do my
human thing. Uh so I move out into the
woods. Uh revert to '90s technology like
that kind of thing. The new Amish as I
call them. Uh path number three is go to
Mars. So uh you just played one game of
you're we are literally in an open world
survival crafting game. The reason openw
world survival crafting games Minecraft
being the most famous are what they are
is because evolution has hardwired us
>> to do that to seek resources to build
things seek safety all that.
>> And so
that's real life. You just won it. You
created AI. Well done humans. Uh, and so
like any gamer who just loves games too
much, you just go play the next one. You
start back at ground zero and you know
what you have to do? You have to go
build safety, get access to the
resources, build things up, try to get
laid like and so it'll just reboot on
Mars. And I think that a very meaningful
subset of humanity will do that. And it
it will be like playing life on hard
mode. So basically the new Amish revert
back to the 90s. the people that go to
Mars revert back to like
>> the
>> 10,000 years ago. No, 10,000 years ago
because it's like you're you're going to
a planet where you have nothing. You
can't even breathe yet.
>> You've got to like oxygenate or build
little hubs and stuff like that. So, it
it will be just absolutely wild. And
then the fourth one, and this is where I
fall, is um I like to say build and
explore virtual worlds to comfort me
that I'll still be able to create, which
is the thing I find most interesting.
But it may just be that the um
simulation, the AI creates the simulated
worlds for me, and then I just go
explore each of those. That speaks to my
personality. I've tried to think of
another path.
>> I think that's
>> I I think that [snorts] would be
applicable in 10 years, but I think
right now in this transition part,
everybody's kind of just on angst.
>> Everybody's already sorting into one of
those shoots. That's the thing.
>> So, and look, it in in the moment now,
there is still head buried in sand. So,
I'm just playing the game I'm in right
now and not thinking about it. Um, so
it's just that bucket doesn't have a
future, but it it might get you a
decade.
>> Like, yeah, this might, first of all,
everything always takes longer than we
think it's going to take. Nothing is
ever cool as we think it's going to be.
Nothing is ever bad as we fear it's
going to be. We dropped two nuclear
bombs on Japan. They just sort of got on
with it. So, it's rare. Won't say that
it can happen, but asteroid struck is
pretty bad for the dinosaurs. Uh so but
it's pretty rare that something goes all
the way to like truly cataclysmic. Um
it'll just be a slow unwinding. We'll
all get used to it, but it'll be weird
very very fast. This story is heating up
and it's taking international is
starting to get international attention.
Um Australia has officially started its
age restricted social media ban.
>> Tik Tok and Instagram. Here's the
complete list. [snorts] Australia's ban
for young users went to a
>> They are banning Facebook, Threads, X,
Snapchat, Kick, Twitch, Tik Tok,
Instagram, Reddit, and YouTube. Um, I
understand the intention behind this. Do
you think that this will have the
intended effect? I know there's no
solutions, only trade-offs.
>> That's [snorts] the right way to think
about it. Um, oh god, this is one where
all of those seem fine to me except
YouTube.
>> YouTube is just too educational. like
there's God so much you can learn. Uh so
will it have the intended effect? Yes. I
think over time the odds that society
must restrict kids under 16 seems like a
reasonable place to start from engaging
in social media is basically 100%. Like
you just bro the things we're seeing it
doing to kids is so brutal.
>> So I don't see a way around that. People
are gonna have to find a way for kids to
sensibly engage with
things like YouTube. Like I don't know
that you need to be on Instagram or Tik
Tok, but YouTube is like when I think
about how much I've learned about
economics from YouTube, it's extreme. So
YouTube is the outlet through which I
learn most things. It also strikes me as
the harder of them. Like if you said you
couldn't have Thank you. that you
couldn't have your own YouTube channel.
Uh maybe I could understand that. But
anyway, we we will have to come up with
something to protect kids. Is this the
right play? I'm glad they're running the
experiment so we'll get to find out if
this actually is positive or negative
>> and if it even works. But we have to do
something. the the developing brain
needs to be protected and right now we
are not protecting it from shortening
attention span which I think is
terrifying. We're not protecting it from
bullying. Um
when I think about to bully me in
school, people had to like actually come
up to me.
>> And I remember there was a kid who came
up to me this probably 20 years after I
graduated high school. And he came up.
He's like, "I just want to apologize."
And I was like, "Oh [ __ ] for what?" And
he was like, "I was so mean to you." And
I was like, "Bro, if you were, I had no
idea. I never found out about it." So it
was like, it didn't bother me in the
slightest because I never knew. And so
here was a guy that was carrying enough
guilt about it. But like on social
media, it lives forever. It travels like
wildfire. It can reach you in your
bedroom. It's like, h that's rough. So,
yeah, I in thinking about like what
would I have done if I had a kid? I
there's no way. I don't care how much
they complained. I would not let them
have social media until they were 16. No
way. Now, if people think that I would
buckle and break, you know, not my
personality. Um,
but yeah,
>> I'm thinking 11, 13, 14 year olds. Is
there a net positive for them being on
social media?
>> On balance, if you have a sensible kid
and parents that have very strict rules.
Yeah. Like I don't think this is going
to be um this isn't like a necessary
problem. So take somebody like myself. I
do not have an addictive personality.
Obsessive, yes. Addictive, no. So, if I
think like part of the reason that I
stopped taking my phone out, this is
years ago, when I'm quote unquote bored,
not that I never do it, keep in mind,
but um it's pretty rare, is because I
was like, uh I don't want to be in a
position where I feel the need to pull
that out, that I can't be meditative or
complate, uh contemplative.
um that the whole idea of all of the
world's problems are man's inability to
sit alone in a room, it's like I never
wanted that to be true of myself. Uh so
if you've got a kid that has that kind
of vibe, then yeah, if the parents put
rules in place and they sort of get it
>> and they're not like um super swayed by
peer pressure, they'll be fine.
>> But the vast majority of kids, first of
all, don't have a prefrontal cortex.
They can't stop themselves. they get
into these dopamine loops and they
literally are like little addicts. So,
um I certainly wouldn't have wanted to
be tested when I was a kid. Um so, yeah,
I I think that while nothing is ever
going to be universal, so it's not
universally bad. Uh and there's
certainly a lot of good to be had. And
again, I'm I'm uneasy about the YouTube
one.
>> Uh but yeah, I think I get what they're
trying to do.
>> Yeah. And then somebody in the chat
said, "Well, what about like Xbox and
gaming? Should that be included in this
band as well?"
>> I wouldn't, but I do think parents need
to put limitations on it.
>> Yeah.
>> So, um, growing up for me, it was like I
could play for a while, but I had to go
outside and do things, which that's just
like first of all, I grew up in a wasn't
quite rural, but it certainly wasn't
suburban uh area. And so, that was there
was a lot to do outside and I could do
it safely. And so I know that that's not
true for a lot of people. Um, but yeah,
gaming is uh I have a massive bias so
people can discount away, but keep in
mind I ended up here with this
philosophy long before I was making a
game. But um I mean you can look at
neuroprotective stuff. You can look at
doctors perform better in surgery if
they're also a gamer. Uh the way that it
lets you reinforce goal directed
behavior, all that stuff. I I think
gaming is great, but anything can be
overdone and gaming is certainly on that
list. So, um not letting your kids play
for, you know, 6 hours a day. That's
going to be a very wise thing.
>> Yeah. Montes talked about uh what's not
being talked about is how it will be
enforced. That's actually something very
interesting. Children and parents will
not be banned, but instead social media
companies who allow a child to break
through will get fined and the fines are
upwards of the tens of millions of
dollars. So, I kind of appreciate this
kind of inverse uh incentive. So, the
social media companies now have a
obligation to make sure kids don't get
past it because they're going to be like
charged a bill based on that.
>> Yeah. We basically just moved it from
>> 13 to 16.
>> So, because right now social media
companies can't create an account for
you if you're under 13. Now, the people
with digital ID concerns, that's very
valid. that we need to watch out for.
>> I feel like it's funny though because I
like
I understand, you know, under 16 that's
the rule, but I feel like as a kid
that's just like, okay, challenge
accepted. Like I just need to figure out
a way to get over that. And whether
that's a VPN, whether that's a AI face
app swap, like there's going to be
something that I don't know, maybe I'm
just a rebellious kid, but a lot of
times when those artificial limits are
placed on things, I'm like, "Okay, how
can I get over this thing? How can I
surpass it?"
>> I still want to get there.
>> No doubt that a lot of kids are going to
do that for sure. But like anything, it
just you give parents another weapon to
say, "Listen, you're not allowed to have
that."
>> So for me, it worked. When my parents
said, "You cannot drink until you're 21.
Just end of story. It's illegal. It's
bad for you. You're going to do
something stupid that you regret." I was
like, "Okay, cool. I didn't have my
first drink till I was 26."
>> So, um, it works for some people. for
other kids. Like I had friends that I
would be at their house, so I saw with
my own eyes at 12 and they're drinking.
So it's like it obviously didn't work
for them or their parents gave them a
very different message. But
just because some people are going to
get around it doesn't mean you don't put
the rule in place.
>> So, and kids are going to kid. They're
going to find ways around. Many of them
are going to find ways around it. Is
what it is.
>> Yeah. Um, Andre in the chat said she
hates YouTube. It's the bane of her
existence. Amazon has it as like
unscripted TV. There was one like
interesting thing I noticed is that when
uh I forgot the kid who opened up the
toys, Max Toys or something like that,
Ryan. Ryan. Yeah. He was the biggest
YouTuber for a couple um this was right
before the Mr. Beastification happened.
And I think that kids then became they
didn't want to play with toys. They
wanted to watch other kids play with
toys.
>> That's so crazy to me. And I remember
like arguing like with one of my like uh
one of my friends about it. We were
like, "Oh, at brunch and stuff." She's
like, "Yeah, these kids are weird. They
just do that. They just watch other kids
play with toys." When I was younger, I
wanted to play with toys. And I was
like, "Well, it's kind of like you
watching the Kardashians. You don't go
out and talk to your friends. You're
watching other people talk with their
friends."
>> And then like the table kind of got a
little bit quiet. And I'm just like it
is. So, but I'm not saying reality TV
isn't a good or bad thing like whatever.
Different strokes, different folks. But
that has as we're seeing as the men who
are capp for Nick F point has happened
that has also skewed how women look at
life what women deserve what they think
based on these values. Are we doing that
same thing with kids in a different way?
>> Of course, you know, do I think there's
some blanket thing happening to kids?
No. But do I think that every piece of
media ever created that ever will be
created in some way informs your frame
of reference? Of course. That's
precisely why I want to make video
games. I want to tell kids one idea over
and over and over. If you work hard at
something, you'll get better at it. Like
that's the idea that I want to
indoctrinate children with. So yeah, I
am well aware that that kind of thing
really does shape people.
>> Um so yeah, that you're making something
entertaining. Shorts are entertaining.
You've got an entire global ecosystem of
content creators making the one funniest
thing that they could show you most
poignant, most insightful, funniest,
whatever. And that is amazing that we
all get to take advantage of that. But
if you just sit there and scroll and
scroll and scroll and scroll and scroll
and scroll and scroll, you do a weird
thing to your brain. So, it's like we I
don't think we should want to get rid of
the art form. I don't even think that we
should be um saying to kids like
watching another kid play video games is
dumb. You don't want to do it. We want
to recognize what it is. Like I remember
the first time I heard about um Twitch
and people playing video games and that
people watched them play video games. I
was actually confused. I thought I was
misunderstanding what they were
explaining. [laughter] They're like,
"No, no, no. Twitch, you go and you can
watch other people play games." I'm
like, "But nobody would do that." And
they're like, "Of course they would."
Like, "What are you talking about?
That's really stupid." And then I was at
the time my game of choice was Destiny
and I was like, "Oh man, there is this
one thing I'm having so much trouble
with. Let me just go look at this thing
because I'm kind of curious." And since
I'm here, I'm not going to look up a
random game. I'm look up the game I
play.
>> I looked it up and started watching this
guy and I was like, "Oh my, that's so
brilliant." And so I was then just
completely sucked in. And shout out to
Bush Camp dad. Bush camp dad. I don't
know. Uh in the early days he would show
up before we like went hardcore
politics. cuz I don't know if he ever
pokes in anymore, but um
he's so fun to watch. Like watch him
play Fortnite. He's a guy my age, but is
ranked in the world because he hides.
It's really brilliant. Anyway, um so
that kind of stuff is way more fun than
I expected it to be, but it's different.
So playing with toys is one type of
entertainment. Watching someone play
with toys is almost like watching a
cartoon where the kid is drawing you
into a story. It's a different kind of
story, but he's drawing you into a
story. He's making it entertaining with
like flashing lights and all that. And
it's like that's always going to be a
little bit easier. It's a little bit um
I don't want to be judgmental, but it's
a little bit lazier of a type of
entertainment. You don't have to think
of it yourself.
>> Um
>> but both have their place.
>> Yeah. Um, being the little brother, like
I used to watch I used to be forced to
watch my older brother play video games
cuz he'd be like, "No, I'm playing
something." So I would, so like I feel
like Twitch was natural to me. I felt
like that was just me reliving my
childhood.
>> But um, a Melly Will,
>> you just pulled my card so I had to
close my mouth after this. He says, "We
watch soccer and Olympics and same with
other like games." So I sure enough was
yelling at the TV on Monday night for
the football game. So I guess
>> 100%.
>> I don't go outside and play football
with my friends. So you got me there.
>> All right. I've got a whole take on
that. So first
sports are war replicants. So you are
trying to that thing that's ingrained in
us to want to compete and to win and to
destroy the enemy. It's like that's how
you get wars.
>> We needed a proxy for that to because it
it is a thing like especially in men
that you have this impulse to want to
compete, to want to be better, to drive
yourself, to be the gladiator and it's
like but I don't really want to kill
them or be killed. And so we came up
with all these proxies. So that's like
this evolutionary drive. Then there's
another evolutionary drive to care
deeply about your team. This is part of
the reason that esports don't work is
they just can't get the momentum of the
sense of that's my team because they're
not geographically bound. The games
change so rapidly that they come and go.
You can't like pass it on to your kids
and like why are you into Tottenham
Hotspur? Because my wife is. Why is she
into it? Because her dad was. Why was
her dad into it? Because he moved into
that area of London. And so it's like
there's all of this geographical thing,
this passing it down to your kids that
really creates this like, oh, this is my
team and now I'm going to invest. And
this is the same way that I feel about
TCGs. So I don't collect any cards. Like
I have IP that I love. And so I'm way
more likely to collect, say, One Piece
or Gundam because I'm really into that
IP. And so it isn't even fun for me like
all the other ones that are out there.
Maybe they even have better art. Take um
Riftbound. Riftbound is from League of
Legends. Okay, I don't care about League
of Legends and therefore I just can't
get into it even though it has better
art. So I'm just like, eh, whatever. I'm
not going to pay attention to that
because I want to invest. I want to care
about something. I want to pour myself
into this thing. I want to say I care
about this thing. And that like is this
drive that people have. And so when
people make fun of sports or whatever,
and I'm not a sports guy, but when they
make fun of it, that to me is like
making fun of the human condition. We
want to invest. We want to care deeply
about something. We want to go on an
emotional roller coaster. And so having
that part of your life, of course, you
can take it too far and you can damage
your relationships because all you ever
do is care about the sport. But it's the
same reason people want to bet on the
game. It makes you feel more invested.
And so now if you're like imagine you're
betting on a game that's your team that
was like became your team because you
bonded over it with your dad and you're
going against that number one rival and
you've got money writing on it. It's
like that's just going to be like this
really heightened emotion. Now
once you realize
all of life,
all of life is about one thing true.
>> It was that one thing
>> and that is changing our brain
chemistry. That's it. That's why we fall
in love. That's why we pursue sex.
That's why we eat the foods that we
like. It's why we work out. It's why we
listen to music. It's why we go to the
movies. Uh it's why we pursue a career.
It is all to manipulate our brain
chemistry. And so when you can invest in
something and then go on that ride and
you want the volatility of emotion if
you always win it's boring. Uh the best
matches are when it was like a back and
forth but you finally pull it off in the
end. There's a time where you're like
you want to cry in the middle of the
match cuz coach is making a dumb
decision the players are playing
terribly and you're down and it's oh my
god and then they finally do the right
thing you've been screaming at them for
and they score the goal and the last
second you win. You're just freaking
out. you're you're on a high that you
wouldn't have been if it hadn't been
this roller coaster. And people want
that. People want that ride. All right.
Thank you guys so much for coming on
this ride with us today. And we will see
you guys on Friday. You're all amazing.
Thank you for being here. And until next
time, my friends, be legendary. Peace.
If you like this conversation, check out
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